The Public Relations Expert: Engage Smaller Trade Associations For Visibility | E40 - The Small Business Startup School – Business Notes | Financial Literacy | Retail Psychology – For Professionals & Entrepreneurs

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
People who complete the survey aren't your customers, but they're actually what
you might consider being.
Put your press releases on the blog, create a new category in your blog.
If it's WordPress, you just add a new category, call it. Most of your smaller
and independent trade associations will do this.
This conversation is with Mickey Kennedy.
Mickey is a public relations expert. But I listened to a story about how a founder,

(00:27):
even after they raised $10 million, when they got $9 million,
they had PR, they were in the newspapers, they had all the press attention.
And to outsiders, they were doing fantastically well.
But the founder knew that the startup was heading to the ground.

(00:53):
They had spent $9 million out of the $10 million, and he just knew that this was not working.
And when I listened to that conversation, I was thinking to myself,
how do you get public relations right?
If after you've been listed on national newspapers or global newspapers and

(01:15):
you think you have a sticky product.
But even with all that, maybe you don't. And that has always fascinated me.
And listening to Mickey, having this conversation with Mickey really gave me
some fresh perspective of how simple people, or how easy Pihau can be.

(01:37):
And they gave me the insights to the amount of money that you need,
that you don't even need a lot.
And it could be reasonable depending on where you are in your business.
Why don't you join us in this conversation?
My name is Ola Williams, and this is Small Business Startup School. go.

(02:02):
Miki, welcome. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Let's start.
Me too. Who is Mickey? My name is Mickey Kennedy, and I started eReleases.com
a little over 25 years ago, October of 1998.
And we are a press release distribution platform that predominantly focuses on a U.S.

(02:22):
Newswire distribution over PR Newswire. and we help businesses,
authors, startups increase their visibility and credibility through press release
distribution and the goals of getting them earned media,
which is what we call it when you get an article written about you.
So the goal is to get the release in front of journalists and have them consider

(02:42):
it and write an article about you.
And we have been doing this for a really long time and I'd mentioned PR Newswire before. four.
And in the US, there's largely two news wires of press releases.
There's PR Newswire, Businesswire.
There's a third company that's tried to make market share, but they haven't
had much luck with journalists.

(03:03):
So they've sort of pivoted themselves to focusing mostly with publicly traded
companies who are just trying to meet disclosure and really don't care about
getting in front of journalists.
And I had mentioned earlier that there's
a lot of businesses online if you do a search that have
wire and newswire in their name and like i
said there's just two that are bona fide newswires that

(03:25):
get releases in front of journalists and that's pr
newswire and business wire pr newswire being our partner they charge like sixteen
hundred dollars to move a release nationally and through us it's like a third
of the price of that and it's largely because of our volume we do ten thousand
plus releases a year during the pandemic a lot of people were pivoting.

(03:45):
So we did a lot more volume. We did over 12,000 releases that year.
So I am in the position to see a lot of press releases that work and don't work.
And I've noticed a lot of patterns.
And I like to take opportunities like this to share some of those with people
so they can, if they do consider press releases, that they perhaps focus on
the ones that are likely to be more meaningful and likely to get media pickup

(04:08):
and result in those articles.
Does your coverage, does it cover Canada? It does.
So we offer a Canadian add-on and we also offer additional countries where you
can get an add-on as well.
It does have the U.S. national as the default and you can add things on top
of that like other countries.
Okay, so would the price change depending on the geographical location you're looking to cover?

(04:33):
Correct. It would add additional $200 to do the Canadian circuit on top of the
U.S. distribution. Beautiful.
Thank you so much for that introduction. So we're talking about low-ticket offer today.
Business people can leverage low-ticket offer.
So let's even start with an explanation. What's a low-ticket offer?
I know for a lot of people, a low ticket offer is something that's $20 or $30.

(04:56):
In my space where a national distribution on PR Newswire is $1,600,
I consider my offering a low ticket offer.
It started out 25 years ago being $250.
And today for a new customer coming in, our mid-tier new customer price is $350.
So, you know, especially if you also consider the prices of PR firms,

(05:22):
ours is definitely more a la carte and it is more about a low ticket price.
And, you know, most people who are in my space and advertising on a lot of the
keywords I'm looking for visibility and PR and stuff like that,
their goal is to get a $20,000, $30,000, $40,000 contract.
And our goal with the first customer is to get that $350 conversion.

(05:46):
Might be a little bit more if they add writing, might be a little bit more if
they add additional countries or additional things like that,
but it is a very low ticket offer and it is a la carte as opposed to a subscription
or something that is recurring or ongoing.
So take us through how, if a business comes to you, like, how would they,

(06:08):
what's the journey from that low ticket offer to they scaling their business
to say from where they are to where they want to be.
Whether that be six figure, seven figure, you know, what does that journey look
like for a business person?
Right. So PR is a really good foundation for any growing business.

(06:32):
We work with a lot of startups, mainly because startups realize that before
they do a lot of paid marketing, they want to create awareness and credibility.
And so that's why a lot of startups invest in PR first.
And by doing that, they can get some articles written about them.

(06:54):
And then it just makes it easier to then create.
Do paid advertising because it will increase their conversions.
So if you're a company that someone's never heard about and you click on an
ad, you're like, okay, I will consider them and move on.
Conversion rates for most pay-per-click ads are relatively small.

(07:14):
But if they encounter you in an ad or they go to your website and they see that
you've been mentioned in places, or for example, they see that you've previously
been on Shark Tank and they're like, oh yeah, Yeah, I kind of remember that.
It's a huge credibility boost and it makes them feel a lot more comfortable
considering you because it does sort of act as social proof,

(07:37):
sort of like you've been vetted and there is an inherent signal of trust when
someone has written about you.
It's almost like an emotional response when you read a good article about a company.
And, you know, what happens with articles can be, you know, immediate where
they click through and buy, or it can be just one of those things where they

(07:59):
feel really excited about the company and they strongly consider them going forward.
And it definitely helps conversions. So, you know, that that's why if you're a growing business,
having that those credibility signals, having that authority and credibility
that comes from getting earned media will make it a lot easier for you to convert later on.

(08:21):
And it also makes it a lot easier to keep your existing customers as you get
earned media because, you know, you have this article written about you.
Take that link, you know, share that mention in your newsletter.
Share it in your communications with leads, share it with your social media,
let your existing customers see it.

(08:41):
Because existing customers are always shopping and deciding,
you know, am I using the right company?
And maybe this year, a certain percentage of those people that would have considered,
you know, moving away from you and trying someone else won't do that because
they feel like, wow, this article really, you know, makes them seem like they
know what they're doing.
So I feel very comfortable that I'm with the right company. So I'm not going to move this year.

(09:06):
And so these are all the signals that earned media, you know,
definitely give someone and especially in an area where there's so much testimonial
fatigue, people don't really pay as much attention to that.
But there is still a huge credibility when it comes with earned media,
when, you know, a journalist has written an article about you and it sort of

(09:27):
bestows that, you know, rapport and excitement that happens with this third-party corroboration.
So it all has to do with credibility.
What if I don't have any interesting thing to say about myself as a business owner?
How would you as a journalist go about it?
You know, my storytelling. Right. So a lot of people feel like they don't have

(09:51):
anything meaningful to say or anything newsworthy.
And you would be surprised what you can develop and come up with.
You know, there's everything from what's your journey, what's your story,
you know, everybody that appears on Shark Tank.
And I know that show really well because we work with a lot of people that appear on Shark Tank.
The producers recommend that they do press releases before their episode airs

(10:15):
and they They also tell them that a lot of people have had good experiences with e-releases.
So we've worked with, you know, Squatty Potty and Manscaped and many,
many of these people, both before their episode aired and many of them afterwards
doing releases with them.
And, you know, when they appear on the show, one of the first things they do
is they share their journey, their experience, you know, how the company was

(10:40):
founded or how the product was inspired.
Inspired and sometimes you know it can be like a
very personal inspirational story it could be like
something they've overcome it's often a vulnerability like
you know maybe they just were fresh out of a divorce and they thought about
this hobby they used to have with their father and they were wondering if they
could turn that into a business and the reason that all of these people that

(11:04):
go on the show immediately start with that is it it gives your personal story
but it also humanizes you.
It adds a human interest element and it gives immediate empathy where you start
to care about this person.
And the same thing you can do with your journey in a press release.
What was it that really got you inspired to build your business or to launch

(11:29):
a new product or to serve your community?
Sometimes it's not going to be the lead in the
press release, but it could be certainly something in the release further down.
We also generally see a section in the press release we call the boilerplate,
and it's usually about the company or if it's an author, about the author.
And usually that's where you recycle the same bit of language in subsequent releases.

(11:52):
You can always update it, but that might be a good place to put that story there
and to really share something where you're being vulnerable or giving across
the human interest element.
And again, I think most people are capable of that. You know,
it is also true that in some cases they're manufactured.
You know, in the early 2000s, a lot of articles were about eBay and how the

(12:17):
founder had created it to help his girlfriend sell her Pez collection.
It turns out there was no Pez collection. The PR firm thought it was a really cute story.
And it did really well. I mean people really resonated with it and it shows
the importance that people recognize in these stories and you know I wouldn't recommend.

(12:39):
Fictionalizing your story but I do think that you could go and do an inventory
of what caused you to start things and What was going on in your life?
And maybe there are elements there that you could put together and put a captivating.
Vulnerable story that gives some authenticity and you know, sometimes it's you know, just I

(13:00):
There's circumstances that lead you there, but these are the circumstances that
a lot of people have in their lives.
And so just consider, you know, pulling the threads of a narrative together
and, you know, give us another lens of view in the world.
Other things that you can do if you don't
feel you're newsworthy is you know incorporating data you
know i i tell people that you know

(13:21):
one of the best things you can do to pump up a press release you've already
written is see if there's elements of publicly available data that support what
you're saying in your press release for example let's say you have a new product
and you feel your product is very important in your industry because it can
really be the difference between,
you know, profitability for companies that don't have your solution.

(13:45):
And so you could sort of get a publicly available number of the number of people
in your industry that fail within the first five years of business.
And all of a sudden say, you know, not only is, you know, getting your logistics costs in control,
very important for a retail business, but also, So, you know,
the 63% of people fell within their first five years.

(14:09):
And often it's because of lack of profitability.
And so that shows the stakes of why your solution is so important.
And in addition to that, there's opportunities for developing your own numbers and data.
I tell people if they're ever beaten down and they just feel like they're not
getting media attention and they feel like they've tried a lot and they're about

(14:30):
ready to throw in the towel, I tell them to consider doing a survey or study within their industry.
And I know it sounds daunting, but it really isn't. It's really just the most
energy and creativity really should be spent on coming up with 16 questions
that you could ask right now others in your industry and what's going on today

(14:53):
that people would want to know the answer to.
You know, sometimes it can be like your work culture, you know,
post-pandemic, have you found it more difficult to get people to want to work
in the office or do you even care whether people work from home or hybrid?
You can ask questions about, you know, what's the health of their business?
You know, do you plan on spending more or less marketing in the next couple of quarters?

(15:17):
That could be indicative if there's a pattern of maybe slowdown in particular
within your industry, but it could just be, you know, economically throughout
the country or globally. So, you know.
Pick questions that, you know, you see that are trending right now,
maybe in trade publications.

(15:38):
You know, consider questions that you or your colleagues would want to ask other
people if you were at a conference and you were just sitting around talking
to other people within your industry.
Often these expose questions that your trade publications aren't covering.
Like, hey, have you noticed that people are really taking, you know,
90 to 120 days to pay a net 30 bill? Bill, what's going on?

(16:02):
Or have you really noticed that a lot of people are asking about our products
and whether will they be incorporating AI?
So is that a trend? And so I use SurveyMonkey for my surveys that I help coach.
And we do four questions per page. So if someone stopped halfway through,

(16:23):
you've still got eight responses.
Responses and of the last page you can afford to
put maybe a wild left field question you
know maybe something you didn't feel very comfortable saying in the
beginning because again if they stop at that point you've
still got most of their responses but sometimes those can
be the ones that really can give you interesting results i

(16:43):
did one for an automotive repair shop in
pennsylvania and they were looking for links and
credibility in automotive trade publications and so
we did a survey and on that page we asked what was the strangest thing a customer
left in their car while being repaired and then we sent that to other auto repair
shops across the us and that that turned out to be the one question that we

(17:08):
focused the press release on and it wasn't statistically relevant.
We just took 50 of what we thought were the best responses and put them on a
website, and we included about 20 in the press release.
And it did really well. I think like a dozen automotive trade publications picked it up.
A lot of them linked to that page where all the questions and answers for the

(17:29):
entire survey was and where all of the responses were 50 plus there that we had.
And it did extremely well. Also got picked up in their local newspaper as well.
Well and so you know for them it did exactly
what they were looking for and they thought that they weren't
newsworthy but by doing that survey they they

(17:50):
were the author of the survey they got to put a quote in the press release why
they felt the numbers skewed a particular way and in this case that quote was
specific to basically the human factor and the humor factor that was taking
place with the responses that, you know,
that rather than data and percentages and numbers,
they talked about how, how, how, how fun and humorous life is.

(18:15):
And, you know, the, the quirky little anecdotes that people experienced and,
and that did extremely well for them.
And, and that can work for anybody in their case, they belong to an independent
automotive repair association.
So we just took that link from SurveyMonkey and asked them if they would send
that to their members and we would mention them in the press release that we'd

(18:36):
be issuing over the wire.
Most of your smaller and independent trade associations will do this because
they don't get a lot of media attention.
It's the large, well-funded trade associations that don't need you,
won't be interested in that opportunity, and they get most of the media attention.
So generally, when my clients reach out to smaller and independent trade associations in their industry.

(19:00):
They get you know two-thirds of the time they'll say yes to that scenario where
they'll send it to their members you do want to tell them that the goal is to
try to get 100 responses or more,
and by letting them know that if they we don't get 100 responses with like an
email send they do they're more likely to then follow up through social media
and do a little more pitching to try and get the numbers up for the survey and

(19:23):
you know that's a great way to stand out generally Generally,
when a client of mine that I've coached through this process does a survey and
a press release where they focus on one or two of the questions,
and that's one of the important things is you're not going to mention all 16
questions in the press release. You're just going to focus on one or two.
In that case of the automotive company, we just focused on that one question.

(19:45):
What was the strangest thing someone left in their car while being repaired?
And they were odd, like a boa constrictor.
You know, grandma was left in an urn and they had to retrieve her after hours
for memorial service and just little anecdotes of life that people thought were
interesting and had a sort of viral factor to them that people really shared them.

(20:06):
And they were very interesting anecdotes. But, you know, that's something anyone can do.
And generally, when everyone goes through this, that I coach,
they get eight to 14 articles. The least someone has gotten is four,
but they were in a very specialized industry of biometrics.
And I think that that's probably why it was smaller than most.

(20:27):
But if you have a little bit more general appeal, you'll generally have better results.
And anybody can do that. And it's a great way to stand out. And after a while,
you just gain so much expertise and leadership by just doing it within your
industry that people just respect you.
They'll refer to you. They'll send leads to you.

(20:48):
They'll want to work with you. And it's just a really great way to capture authority
in any type of marketplace. place.
I was going to ask you, how do you get people to respond to surveys,
but you just took us through that because my experience has been you send surveys
to people and it's crickets. Right.

(21:11):
Nobody's responding. So that's, you know, idea of going through the independent,
trade associations that don't get much of media attention.
That's really good. I think other areas one can explore apart from those independent
trade associations, you know, the small ones.

(21:31):
Yeah, the smaller ones, independent ones. You can also focus on ones that have a particular niche.
I was talking to someone who was a PR specialist and they said,
well, Mickey, what would you do in our industry?
Because there's only Public Relations Society of America.
And I said, well, you may be surprised, but there's over 400 public relations
associations in the United States.

(21:52):
They didn't believe me. And I just pulled up, you know, there's,
you know, some of them are ultra specialized, like, you know,
people who are Italian Americans in mid-Atlantic. But there's also ones that
are, you know, solo practitioners.
There's ones that are specific to the size, small PR firms, like smaller independent PR firms of America.

(22:15):
There are some that are ones that are like bilingual PR firm associations.
So find a niche that works with your audience and they are out there.
You might have to do a little bit more research, but that's the beauty of them.
No one, very few people know they exist.
And for that reason, they're usually not huge.
They're usually 400, 1200 members.

(22:38):
The average, sometimes they can be a bit bigger depending on what industry it
represents. But generally, my experience has been these trade associations don't
email their members very much.
So when they do an email and it's an appeal to please do this survey,
I see anywhere from 10%, 15% doing it to as much just like a third of them will

(23:01):
do the survey with just an initial email.
And then again, if they follow up through social media, we can sort of bump
those numbers up as well. If you've listened or watched to this point,
hopefully you are learning in one way or the other.
And I have a favor to ask from you. Why don't you like the episode and subscribe to the channel?

(23:25):
What this does, it helps us to continue to bring the podcast to you and to others as well.
It also helps to continue to get the podcast to people that would benefit from it.
Thanks very much. That's really, really interesting. Interesting.
So what's the purpose of getting this questionnaire, these surveys, is to get leads, right?

(23:50):
No, the people who complete the survey aren't your customers,
but they're actually what you might consider being your competitors.
So, you know, in the case of PR firm who's surveying other PR firms,
we technically are competitors.
And so the people completing the survey are just other local PR firms,

(24:14):
or in some case, larger PR firms that might even be national.
But most PR firms are local. There's probably just 30 or 40 that are more recognized
as being large national ones.
But there's hundreds and hundreds, maybe even thousands of smaller ones that
are just local to a city or a market. So these are just competitors and other markets in most cases.

(24:36):
And so the goal of them completing the survey is just to give you the data.
And so then when I report it as a PR firm or someone in the PR space about the
numbers affecting the PR industry, what I'm doing is creating credibility within
the PR industry so that people will recognize me.
And among everybody, I'll stand out because I'm the one that does the survey.

(24:59):
I'm the one that did the analysis of the data behind the survey and did a press
release. And we're hoping to get articles about people talking about what the survey discovered.
Maybe it discovered something like two-thirds of PR firms believe that AI is
going to ultimately destroy their industry.

(25:21):
And so that would be shocking. And you would get that out.
Mostly PR trade publications are going to cover that.
But also your business magazines are going to cover that. and business trade
publications, places perhaps like the Wall Street Journal would find something like that interesting.
Maybe some more generalized business magazines like Inc.

(25:42):
Or Forbes might report about it. So all of a sudden, someone reading about this
survey, this article in Forbes might say, wow, this PR firm did this survey.
That's kind of interesting. I'm looking for a PR firm.
They seem like they're experts. I bet I probably couldn't afford them,
but I'll look them up. Or someone might realize that you're in their area as

(26:04):
a result of seeing an article about you.
And again, you've got this authority. You've recognized.
So when they go to you, they're not going to say, hey, I want to now shop for
other companies that have never been in the media and consider working with them.
They're they're more likely to say you're the guy
that had that i read about i would prefer

(26:26):
to work with you are you know are we a fit and
if we are and i can afford you i just naturally work
with you i'm not really in shopping mode where i'm
opening a window and trying to figure what other pr firms
i should shop with so when you get that earned media and
that recognition of authority it makes people naturally
see you as a thought leader and as a

(26:48):
result they gravitate to want to work with you and
so it just is going to make converting easier so you're
naturally going to get some people who just naturally stumble across these
articles see you and gravitate to you but you can also take that article and
that authority and put it in front of your existing leads and they'll read about
it and say wow this company did this survey wow this company just got in you

(27:09):
know inc magazine wow they got mentioned in the wall street journal and you know maybe they're.
Maybe they read the article, and again, they get that warm feeling and that
authority that happens, that signal of trust, and now they're ready to convert with you.
So it just makes your conversions easier.
It does bring in new sales and new leads. The conversion rates, it's hard to tell.

(27:32):
They're different for every industry. I do know that with B2C,
consumer products that are under $100, more people who come from an article
or read about someone and then go to the website are more likely to convert
if the price point is low.
And it just seems like an impulse buy because they've got this emotional response
to the article and they just buy.

(27:54):
But for B2B and larger price points, the sales cycle is a little bit longer,
but they generally want to work with you and they'll go through the process
of becoming a lead and learning more.
And unless something happens that knocks them out of that honeymoon period,
they're less likely to even be considering other candidates.
They're probably just looking for any reason to see whether you're not a fit along the line.

(28:21):
And if that doesn't come, they're more likely just to go through the sales cycle and convert.
So the goal is to make you an authority, first of all.
And then leads and conversion and sales may just fall into place along the way.
But the main goal is to make you an authority.
So are you speaking from the perspective of PR companies now?

(28:43):
I am because that's just my industry that I know.
And it's the one that I'm most related to. I'm not exactly a PR firm,
but it probably fits, you know, when I fill out my business surveys and stuff like that.
It's the closest entity that I can align myself with.
Do you work with small businesses that are, you know, just maybe a retailer

(29:05):
or a consulting firm or, you know, whatever, that they're just looking,
maybe they're just starting out?
And nobody knows them, really. They're just trying to build a brand.
And they're looking at, OK, can I use PR? Do you work with such people?
Yes, I work with all different types of people, all different stages of business.

(29:26):
We also work with people who just have side businesses. And it's just a mom
and pop little side hustle where they have a little website and they use Shopify
and just sell a few things.
And the goal is that it will grow and become a real business.
So we work with all different types.
We work with even some smaller, large, smaller businesses, like,

(29:47):
you know, $20 million a year, which, you know, seems to me, it's a pretty big,
small business. That's awesome.
Yeah. So all different types, all different industries.
I guess the one common thing is that they are willing to invest the time and
the commitment to PR because PR is not one press release.

(30:08):
It's like doing one ad campaign in Google and you got like 30 clicks and you're
trying to determine whether I continue advertising with Google based on 30 clicks.
You have to sort of try several different types of releases,
ideally more strategic, newsworthy ones, and do a campaign.
A proper PR campaign is usually six to eight press releases.

(30:29):
And whether you do that over, you know, eight months to a year and a half,
it really doesn't matter.
You know, I think for most small businesses, it would probably be more towards,
you know, spreading out over a year and a half to maybe even a little bit longer.
But, you know, we also work with startups who want to hit the ground running
and do a press release every month. So it really varies.

(30:50):
But I think you have to find a cadence that's natural and works for you.
And for a lot of people, you know, press releases are a little bit more of a
commitment because you have to really come up with an idea of what you want,
write the release and then schedule it.
But I do tell people that, you know, if you focus on the more strategic types
of releases from the beginning, you'll yield better results,

(31:11):
especially if you do an entire PR campaign of strategic releases.
And I'd mentioned the survey as being one talking about your story and journey.
But I do have a free masterclass that goes through all of these types of strategic releases.
And it's completely free. And it's at ereleases.com slash plan, P-L-A-N.
And it's a great place for people to start. It's not a 12-hour class.

(31:34):
It's under an hour because I know that attention spans are what they are in the TikTok era.
So we have to sort of condense things and make them very accessible.
And it's a great place for people to do an audit of their business and then
probably brainstorm based off of that.
I bet they'd brainstorm at least half a dozen ideas that would be strategic

(31:54):
and newsworthy for them to consider because generally a lot of people bounce
into PR by seeing someone else issue a press release and they go,
oh, that looks pretty easy and it was a new hire release.
We just hired somebody, so let me do a new hire release for them.
And then they pay to send that over the wire.
And the truth is that a new hire press release, unless it's an executive or

(32:17):
an industry veteran, it's probably
not going to generate more than maybe a couple on the move sections.
And you'd be better off just emailing those places yourself,
like maybe your local paper.
There's a business magazine or business newspaper, emailing them a picture of
the new staffer and what their new job is and perhaps where they came from.

(32:38):
And you probably yield the same results just reaching out to a few people on
your own rather than spend something to go over a wire that is basically that non-newsworthy.
So for a startup, let's start with a startup that doesn't have revenue yet.
So what would be your recommendation to such a startup and their business to consumer?

(33:06):
Consumer and they, you know, maybe I'm just trying to find an example.
Maybe they're just selling products.
Their products are available online as well. And they're just starting out and
they've heard, they're listening to this podcast.
They've heard that, oh, press releases and PR and media can do it,

(33:27):
but they don't have revenue yet.
Or maybe they have very little revenue, maybe less than a thousand in a month.
I'm just making this up. So what would be your recommendation?
At what point would you recommend somebody coming to you?
Do you think in the scenario I just painted, that company is a bit premature to come to you?

(33:51):
I just want us to know, give us a context of when is the best time for a startup
to engage. So I don't think it's too early.
As long as the product is available, I think that that's the important thing.
One of the things that when you read articles about startups is they rarely mention revenue.
So what they're really looking about is what's the story behind this?

(34:14):
What is it that they're doing? Who's the startup made up of?
What's the journey so far on this path and where do they stand?
And also what their goals are.
And so in these cases, it could be really good because a lot of these,
their goal is we're e-commerce, but we're looking to get relationships and be

(34:37):
like in Target or other big box retailers and stuff like that.
So in those cases, these can open doors where people will say,
hey, I saw this article about you.
Could you send me some products and let's pick a time to talk and with,
you know, with the purchaser at a big or, you know, place like Target or something

(34:58):
like that. And so it can open the doors.
It really is not necessarily too early. I wouldn't recommend it if the product
hasn't officially launched yet.
And like, let's say the goal is it's going to start Monday and we're going to,
I wouldn't do the release that Monday.
I would wait, see how the initial rollout is that
you're taking a few orders trickling through mostly friends and

(35:19):
family and a little bit of word of mouth and and
make sure that everything's running smoothly and that
it it is now in the marketplace and then you would be a good time to to to do
that initial release especially if your goal is to get a little bit of buzz
and to get things moving for you other thing that you know might be you know

(35:42):
know, something to focus on or a milestone,
what's going on in your industry and how are you aligned with that?
You know, if you're a new product hitting shelves, where do you fit into right now?
Are you organic and trying to be healthy and high fiber and all of those things?
Or are you just sort of just a regular, you know, snack that's meant to just be a treat?

(36:08):
Are you an upper scale treat? things like that, really knowing what your unique
selling proposition is, how you distinguish yourself from someone else is really important.
And I think that when you have that really honed in and aligned,
it's also an opportunity to then focus or release on that and you as a fairly

(36:30):
new brand and how you distinguish yourself in the marketplace.
And people like distinctness. And so that can be one of those things that if
you're, you know, have something that people pay attention to,
like something that's a little bit different than anything else that's out there,
you know, that people pay attention to that and that's going to do really well.
And when you do a release for any new product business or something like that,

(36:54):
you want to make sure that you include photos of the product,
especially right now with so many places having an online presence as well as
print and some transitioning from print to online.
Line, a journalist who's looking at two stories for consideration,
and one has a couple of really good photos, they know that using at least one

(37:14):
of those photos on an online article is going to create more engagement with
their audience because people are more visual.
And it's probably why we're progressing to images and video.
So that gives you an advantage.
So if they go with that article, they know that they're going to get the bonus
of having a good engaging photo.
What a good photo is has changed over the last 25 years. It used to be that.

(37:38):
A product photo had to look extremely professional, usually great light,
blue velvet, you know, with the product centered in it.
Today, candid pictures work really well.
I mean, it is about engagement with an online audience. And people just like
seeing other people use a product or just a product just sitting on what would
be a natural kitchen counter or something like that works so much better than a stale, really posed,

(38:05):
perfect photographic stock photo type thing.
And so that gives you a real advantage also when you're sending stuff out.
Other opportunities for newsworthy type of opportunities that people aren't
aware of is sometimes if you take a position in the market that is a contrarian position.

(38:26):
Sort of being the friendly jerk, but not being like the crazy uncle.
So by contrarian, let's say everybody is talking about how good electric cars
are, and you're in that space.
So if you're the one person who raises his hand and
says electric cars are bad for the environment you know
the the mining of these minerals to create

(38:46):
the batteries is not environmentally sound not
to mention the labor uh that many of these mines
are are done by children and also you know at the end of their life what are
we going to do with all these batteries and these cars are we creating a bigger
problem and have you heard that some of these electric cars that catch on fire
require require 30 to 50,000 gallons of water to put it out.

(39:10):
Maybe we should just put the brakes on it for a little bit and say,
this is where we're going to go, but let's address these problems and solve
them before we fully embrace electric cars and decide to just switch over in just a few years.
That's a way in which I feel you can be rational, but you're also a contrarian.
And the great thing about being a contrarian on any hot

(39:32):
topic in your industry is that journalists are
supposed to be fair and balanced and outside of politics they
usually are and so if they're talking about the
pros of an electric car and now they're wondering you know is there a contrarian
viewpoint well you've already said there is and you're the expert of the contrarian

(39:52):
viewpoint they're going to plug you in every time an article is written on that
subject so there's so many people competing with
the pro voice that very few people are going to get plugged into that article.
But if there's only you saying the contrarian viewpoint, you can get plugged
into lots of articles that just get written naturally.
Once you've done a press release and made your position known in the industry,

(40:15):
people will feel very comfortable just plugging you in.
And I have some people who are so good at it, they just have a page on their
website site where they make a dozen quotes available on that topic and journalists
could just go visit that page grab a quote and put it into an article and they
get article after article written because they're the only person saying that.

(40:38):
The downside to this is you never want to take a view that is going to alienate
your existing customer base or make it difficult to retain customers.
So I've had some people embrace this a little too much and then come to me and
say, Mickey, Mickey, my customer is getting really mad at me.
And I'm like, well, you know, I think you have to make sure that the view you're

(40:59):
taking isn't going to upset your existing customers.
And you got to make sure that your message and market match.
And so that is one of the things that is out there.
But you could be writing an article that if there's some economic uncertainty.
You could write an article about why you feel a recession would be good for your industry.
That's a very different angle from a lot of stuff that I hear about in most

(41:24):
industries and markets. And so all of a sudden, I could see people wanting to
gravitate towards that and saying, this is a fresh take.
And we want to get this out there and share it with a lot of people.
But there's lots of ways to, you know, really get yourself out into the market
as a small business and as a thought leader.
And, you know, one of the things that I discovered early on was I didn't want

(41:47):
to be the face of e-releases. I didn't want to do podcasts.
I didn't want to do, you know, my positions on a lot of hot button topics.
But the reality is, if you want to take most advantage of these opportunities
in the media and educating people,
you have to put yourself out there and you just have to get comfortable with

(42:07):
it and sort of realize that you are the thought leader of your business.
And like it or not, you are.
So why not take that and put it out there and sort of grab a little bit of attention
and authority and you will realize that people want to do business with people and not logos.

(42:30):
And so once I started putting my face on my website, which just horrified me.
I got more conversions and people, you know, always called and said, how's Mickey?
And they just feel like they know Mickey and that I'm a personality. And it is true.
People want to do business with people. So the more you do to create a personality

(42:51):
and get it out there and talking both with the media and with your customers,
you're going to find conversions are going to be easier and people are going
to feel better about working with you.
Let's talk about that. So I have heard people say, I don't, it's not about me
as a business person, it's about my customers.

(43:11):
So why should I put my, why should I put myself out there?
I want to talk about, I want, I want my customers to make, to feel like this is about them.
So how do you, how do we balance that?
So, you know, you get where I'm going.
For somebody thinking, I don't want to put my face on, on my website or my business

(43:32):
because I don't want the customers to feel like I'm bragging or it's about me.
I want my customers to feel like it's about them. So how do we balance that?
Sure. So, you know, I think that in the sales process and after the sale,
it is about the customer.
And so you want to make sure that you're having...

(43:54):
Dialogues with them and that you are making it very clear that you understand
their goals and what they're looking for and that they feel like they're being heard.
And so I think that's important.
I think that also look for opportunities to maybe put the spotlight on the clients.
I have done a bad job of this. It has been my goal for a while to ask my customers,

(44:19):
Hey, are there any success stories or wins that you guys want to share this quarter?
And I'll put them together in some online and in some newsletters and things like that.
And I feel like that's a really great way to take someone and make them feel
really important when they've got a little success and you share it with everybody. buddy.
And that's something I'm not doing, but I keep it's on my back burner.

(44:43):
It really is. And I plan on doing it, but I know that my customers would love
those opportunities and to be able to share their wins and what's working for
them and give them a little bit of a spotlight among other customers,
as well as, you know, what, what, what, what worked for them and what little
tips and tricks that they might have.
So it really is a collaborative thing. And business is one of those Those things

(45:05):
where if you make things more open and community-minded, I think people like that.
I have no emotional feeling towards Adobe, which is under attack right now,
or Microsoft or the Googles of the world.
But I have a sweet spot for a chocolate company that's down the street that

(45:27):
closed down a few years ago.
And eventually the daughter convinced her parents she wanted to reopen it.
And she shared the story with the media and people championed her and loved her.
And she's just doing really well. And I'm just like, people, people love.
People root for people. And the more that you do to make your business less

(45:51):
corporate and a little more professional.
But with a personality, I think that it gives you a huge advantage.
It makes people really comfortable.
I have gone to people's websites before and just felt like, eh,
they're not a good fit for me.
And I belong to EO, Entrepreneur's Organization, which is a global thing and

(46:13):
are my local chapter. or I've met some of these people that I've actually been to their website.
And then when I talked with them, I was like, I totally want to work with them.
And so I have then, you know, reached out to them.
But the website gave me no confidence that this is someone I wanted to work
with. And I realized there's no personality on the website.
There's an about section and that person was there, a picture of them.

(46:35):
But I just, you know, a video on the homepage or a landing page would have gone
a long way where they just talked about the process and talked about how they
handle the customer experience and onboarding would go an extremely long way
of making me feel very comfortable working with them.
I wanted to ask you that. So what are the things you're looking to see on a

(46:56):
website that will make that website really...
Personable like really that will make
you feel comfortable right so i i heard a
video of you know the the owner
of the company sharing if you know the
story of onboarding what other things would resonate with

(47:16):
you i think that allowing a little
bit of personality on the about page you know
like my my employees share their their likes
and passions and their quirks you know and you
know quirky little hobbies and things like that and i think that
you know that's a natural place for it i personally
don't love like the go daddies of the website that are all just these you know

(47:40):
brands of you know cartoon characters and or are they're too quirky or fun i
mean at the end of the day you want to be professional but i think there's places
and spaces where incorporating personality
and just talking and discussing things is very appropriate.
A landing page where you're talking about a particular product could be a great

(48:02):
place for a video of you just talking through the process and what people are looking for.
I mentioned that I had the free masterclass.
It was just an online thing that I created and written down because writing
is my love language, not video.
But I recognized that I needed to create a video and walk people through because

(48:22):
a lot of people aren't going to read it, you know, but there are people who
will skim something that's less than an hour if they feel the benefit is there.
And in that case, I condensed it as much as I could to get it in a short video.
And it's all just, you know, packed full of education and good advice.
And I think that that those are the opportunities for things like that.

(48:43):
You know, I'm not, you know, extremely quirky or crazy or anything like that,
But I do want people to feel that I care whether they succeed or not.
I don't want to be a PR firm charging tens of thousands of dollars because I
started my business with the goal of helping businesses that didn't have a lot of money.
And my clients don't have $1,600 to move a press release.

(49:06):
But $350 is a really appropriate ask for a small business and a new customer.
I agree. Yeah, for me, that's really important. And I want that to show and
to really inspire people and to really get people to see the opportunities that
are out there with Pure. A kindness key for you.

(49:27):
Your next big win or small win, it doesn't really matter.
A win is a win. Could be hidden in form of an uncomfortable question or an unwelcome task.
I recently asked a business person to perform a task, or I presume because it's
not part of their routine task, they didn't lean in.

(49:49):
Unknown to them, I could see what would lead their business to their next desired target.
Level. But because they didn't lean in, they lost the opportunity.
Unlock kindness by leaning in, just leaning, be curious about that uncomfortable
question or task that somebody is asking of you.

(50:12):
I sense there should be. So I have witnessed video before and it didn't really
resonate with people, but maybe because it wasn't professionally done.
So do you agree that as much as possible, business folks should look to have
some professionality incorporated in the videos they're putting on websites or out there?

(50:36):
How important is that? I hope it's not very important because the video quality
of this Zoom is as good as it gets for me.
And I find that if I have to rely on ultra professional and other equipment
and lights and professional lights and all this other stuff, it just won't get done.
And I've already mentioned that you have this client spotlight idea for a long

(50:59):
time that I just haven't implemented.
I've gotten some videos done just because I just do them, you know,
just open up a zoom and it's just me and I hit the record button and I talk
and, you know, that's it.
But I do have someone who edits the beginning and end and maybe takes out a
few ums. But that's about it.
And there's software now that does a pretty good job of that.

(51:20):
I played with Loom yesterday, and I hadn't used it in years,
but I wanted to walk through a web page.
And it took out a lot of the ums automatically using AI and stuff.
Like, okay, so there's things out there that you could use. I feel like with
a lot of businesses, the more you ask of them, the more resistant they are to get it done.

(51:42):
And one of my big asks of clients is to build a newsroom. As you do press releases,
create a newsroom. Put your press releases there.
As you get articles written about you, link there. I also tell them...
Take screenshots and use special extensions that you could screenshot the entire
page and save it as an image and a PDF because these pages do go away.

(52:07):
Eventually, newspapers especially will try a new management system,
a CMS content management system, and they usually just purge all the old stuff
rather than trying to port it over.
And so eventually, these articles go away. So you want
to make sure you record them so that you can still have them on
your website and make them available to people and but

(52:29):
you know that ask of a newsroom for
some of my clients is too much so i'm like well do you have a blog most of them
say yes so i was like put your press releases on the blog create a new category
in your blog you know if it's wordpress you just add a new category call it
newsroom or press releases or something and just put your posts there that's better than nothing.

(52:52):
And so I feel like if we tell people that they have to have a very professionally
edited video, it may not get done.
And, you know, I don't feel that I try to be quirky or unprofessional,
but I also don't feel like I dress up very much and I wear very colorful glasses
even outside of Pride Month.
So, you know, it's a little bit of my personality, but I do still believe that

(53:15):
I come I come across as professional and empathetic and caring,
but I try to not come across as wacky or giving people crazy ideas.
There's always the PR stunts of the world and things like that.
And while potentially you could embrace a PR stunt or two, I find that you run
the risk of just coming across as

(53:37):
silly or irrelevant, and I really don't encourage them most of the time.
Well, you do come across as professional to me. So that's good. Yeah.
And I like that you said that because not,
you know, waiting to have it done professionally could actually be a deterrent,

(53:59):
could discourage business people from doing things.
And I like the way you took us through to say, you know, Zoom video, that's good enough.
Just otherwise, you're not going to get it done. Yeah. So practical.
I'm a very big believer in best efforts.
Like as long as that's your best efforts, that's genuinely, authentically,

(54:23):
you just want to engage and that's your best.
Your best is good enough and then you could keep, you know, improving that best from time to time.
So that's very great. Are there businesses you've worked with in Canada that
you could share? Are there, you know, examples of businesses that you've worked

(54:45):
with within the Canadiens?
And it's okay if there's not. You could give us a U.S. example.
I would just, Canada, because, of course, I'm in Canada. It just came to me first.
Great. So. Absolutely. But speaking of Canada, you're in Halifax, correct?
I am in New Glasgow. It's about an hour and a half from Halifax. Okay.

(55:09):
So I did my junior year in undergraduate at Acadia University in Wolfville.
So I know a little bit of Nova Scotia that most people don't. So I do have that thing.
And it was a great experience for me. I'd never traveled internationally before
that. And I did an exchange.
My university that I went to

(55:29):
in North Carolina had a relationship with Acadia. And so So I was there.
We had lots of fun, occasional weekends in Halifax. There was something going
on then called Beer Wars.
I don't know if they still do that occasionally, but the bars on one side of
the street would lower their price by a nickel.
And the next week, the one that's on the other side would lower by a nickel.

(55:51):
And eventually at the end of the academic year, beer would get down to a nickel a glass.
And it was it was very
encouraging of young people going but
i'd never heard of something like that but it was a lot of fun that sounds interesting
yeah so and i think the population of nova scotia now is about a million it's

(56:13):
not it's not much people around here but for such a small place you it's amazingly
interesting things you could do around here sure yeah.
So I just pulled up my database and I'm just looking at a few Canadians ones,
but we've worked with the next generation short story awards.
They're based in British Columbia.

(56:35):
Let's see. We've worked with the botcher group of companies also based out of British Columbia.
This is a smaller little business called heirloom beauty. They're based in Ontario.
The smaller, the better my, I have a very, you know, most of them are small

(56:57):
business owners, so anything small business is really close to my heart because
I have a small business myself.
Sure. It's true, it's real for a small business person, yeah.
Right. So any help would be very, very welcome.
So I'm just going through the most recent ones that we've had.
Algems, A-L-G, I think that's E-M-S dot com. They're based in British Columbia.

(57:22):
Cross-border communications in vancouver distiller
sr is based in ontario so
we do work with canadian companies most of them are small you would have never
heard of them in most cases but yeah we do we do help people especially it works
really well if they do have an online availability to the u.s market because

(57:45):
if they're looking to get the canadian market but they also can benefit fit from the U.S.
Market, then it's a really good fit.
If you're predominantly just Canada, you're probably not a great suit for e-releases
because I mentioned that it starts with the U.S. distribution and you can add on to it.

(58:05):
So if you're paying for a U.S. distribution and it can't help you at all,
then it wouldn't be a good fit.
But it just determines whether that's important to
you or not and for a lot of people you know with online sales
and services it's still fine and appropriate
and they and they do find themselves doing business both in canada
and the u.s market as well the reason why i mentioned that you should give us

(58:28):
examples i just want people to know that this is accessible this you know for
whether you have a business in canada or like you say u.s you know and if your
business is a small business that i wanted people to see how.
People can relate with examples of what you've done before.
So that's why I felt it was important. And like you said, most of those,

(58:49):
I haven't even heard of those companies.
So that's even good because they have, it's not like, oh, this is not accessible.
This is too big. This is, you know, a corporation, you know,
very big million dollars corporation. These are small businesses that people
can relate to it. So that's very good.
I usually ask guests this show what they would like to learn.

(59:09):
We've been talking a lot about how business people can learn things about people
through storytelling, through engaging with people.
So yourself, are there any interesting things you're looking to know next,
whether that be structured kind of education or just something you just like to know or learn next?

(59:33):
So I help authors as well.
And it used to just be self-published authors, but we get a lot of traditionally
published authors now coming to us because they're like, hey,
HarperCollins is publishing me, but they don't do releases anymore or any type of marketing.
Can you help me? And so we do releases for them. We do help them,

(59:56):
but I am exploring more book marketing services because I see this as a big
need that the big publishers don't want to be involved anymore.
And when HarperCollins publishes you and didn't they just throw you aside to
market on your own, that's like, wow, that's an opportunity out there.
So I am trying to learn more about book marketing specifically and also about

(01:00:18):
how to tap into people who review books.
You know i they're they're generally not in my journalism
my journalist database and so i'm like how
what's the best way of approaching them is it a press release is it a pitch
how does that work is it just relationships and maybe it's just through agents
or the publishers so i'm just trying to explore a little bit more about that

(01:00:40):
marketplace because i would like to better service some of these authors who
just feel like they're completely lost and don't know what to do with with book marketing.
That's interesting. Maybe I'm going to get in touch with you on that because
I'm looking to publish a book myself.
So that's very great. Listen, it's been great talking to you.
This has been a very good opportunity for me to learn about PR,

(01:01:05):
media and all those kind of stuff.
Of um i there was
this podcast i was listening to and the interviewer
was was speaking to the founder of calm i don't know if you know calm see he
held him and it was quite interesting i resonated so much with his story because

(01:01:27):
of the struggles you know of having a startup and all
that and one thing he said was one of
the companies that failed he they got a
lot of pr they got a lot of but it's still
you know and then there was another of course calm is a success and they got
pr as well and he shared how it is the real engagement and being authentic being

(01:01:53):
true to oneself with the customers that really made the difference between the
pr that failed and the period I was successful.
And the reason why I mentioned that is you've talked so much about the authentic.
You know, engagement and, you know, really connecting with people because at
the end of the day, it is the people that really matter.
And that's why I mentioned that. So I am really, really hoping that people gain

(01:02:19):
that when they listen to this podcast,
that how to connect, you know, authentically and how to always,
I believe we can always learn to do so, we can strive, we can aim to connect
with people in a very true manner.
And that's most of the things we've talked about today. So thank you.
Music.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Public Relations Expert: Engage Smaller Trade Associations For Visibility | E40