March 28, 2024 • 29 mins
This week we look to answer the eternal question - why not just play Germany?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:08):
Welcome to Tabletop Tommies. I'm Jonny. And I'm Phil.
And in today's episode we're talking about the armies of Hungary.
We'll not be going through every single unit. We're going to be looking at one
specific question that Phil asked which is why would I play Hungary rather than playing Germany?
It's a great question. It's one that I'm sure many competitive players have
(00:30):
asked themselves many times.
I think the first reason is if you're not competitive theme.
Yep. Which which is really a subjective measure, so it's not really one we could
spend a long time talking about.
But I think if you're thematically inclined, then who are we to tell you not to play Hungary?
Which is an absolutely justified and valid reason. But my limited experience of playing Hungary,
(00:50):
or playing against Hungary, I should say, having never played them,
is I mostly see people play a German army in all but name, possibly with different
colours, with an extra unit because of the Axis special rule.
And this is obviously up until Case Blue, where Case Blue has added in some interesting new rules,
which may make me reconsider my position but
from a sort of layman's simplistic perspective they're
(01:12):
like germany with an extra unit yeah so from purely a
competitive point of view the main reason to play
hungry would be if you have a platoon limit of one at a tournament then you've
got a sneaky advantage because you can throw in an extra something yeah i think
it'll be useful sure so you can throw in an extra multi launcher an extra tank
especially now you you you can throw in the DAKA Panzer for the Germans as your access support unit.
(01:36):
But you're right, I used to play Hungary and I stopped playing them because
it did just feel like playing Germany, but with less...
Toys basically and also less national characteristics
because the only thing the hungarians have is as we said access support
where you can take anything up to armor nine as in
you can't take armor 10 11 and it can't be veteran but
otherwise you can have anything from the armies of germany or the italian
(01:59):
eastern front theater selector so that's a nice way to pad out
a second artillery unit or some extra troops whatever
you feel will benefit you most of the tournament but other
than that the only other national characteristic is that their officer's fanatic but
of course he doesn't last very long in close quarters anyway so it doesn't make
a and if he's taking a big high explosive shell or a
flamethrower he's not going to survive it just from
(02:20):
the wounds alone is he absolutely yeah i mean if you look at
say for example bulgaria which is you know another one of the minor nations
that has an interesting special rule at least one interesting special rule and
we'll cover that in a future episode for me that the hungarian special rules
in the armies of italy the fact that you can have fanatic hq units is neither
here nor there for the reasons you just said because they don't last very long yeah now Now,
(02:40):
one of the benefits from my perspective that Fort Worth Budapest added,
they added assault pioneers who could be regular.
Now, you are paying an extra point per model because they've got the motivated
elite special rule where if they pass an order test, they lose D2 pins.
So they're actually 11 points a man. But what it means is if you do want to
take cheaper engineers than veteran engineers, you've got an option in here.
(03:03):
And so that was one of the competitive reasons you might want to look at Hungary
over Germany if you're into your flamethrower spam.
Side note can you not take regular pioneers in germany
with one of the four shimago no one of the ss units so
with the germans they added the
waffen pioneer squad us d-day d-day us sectors let me open this page 142 onwards
(03:27):
waffen ss pioneer squad so it counts as infantry for the purpose of the generic
selector it can replace any pioneer assault engineer units in any late German selector,
but there's a maximum of one Waffen-SS Pioneer Slate-Wall per platoon.
And so unless it's a theater selector where it allows you to take more than
one, you are limited to one regular in the Germans.
(03:52):
That is a benefit of Hungry that they have access to as many regulars as they want.
If you want to spam sort of five flamethrowers or higher in a competitive tournament.
Okay. But then, of course, the counterpoint to that is compared to,
say, the US, you're paying five points a squad extra.
But then, of course, the counterpoint to that is if you take lots of pins coming
in on your truck, you can lose D2 getting off the truck.
(04:15):
So that could mean that there's a situation where your flamethrower gets off
and would have had one pin but ends up with zero.
So it's hitting back on threes instead of fours or fours instead
of fives okay i'm going to put a one in the hungary column
for an advantage over germany on
that basis perfect so i hope we're going to keep score as
we go other than that there isn't a huge
(04:35):
amount in fortress budapest for the hungarians
that really catches my eye from the
way i play competitively there's a lot of like really good stuff that
i imagine you would like like fanatics and veterans smg squads
so the parachute assault section you get
five men for 78 points because they've got
tough as old boots cool and so
(04:57):
and they're motivated elite i mean okay and
so you're paying 15 points a man basically this is more my
language come on the nc also has
an smg and yeah up to four
additional men can have smgs and two fausts so you can make yourself
for 100 points you can have five guys guys
with tough as all boots who are motivated elite who all have smgs and have two
(05:20):
fouse perfect excellent my eight dice thousand point list i'm all over it brilliant
but that's the kind of stuff other than that really that you're looking at in
fortress budapest it does add things like the 44 millimeter.
Pan pancellar yeah rocket launcher pancellar yeah
yeah but that's just a bazooka so what it's done i
think what fort was put a pest in is didn't make hungary one
(05:42):
of the competitive nations but it brought them up to a level where
they could compete because it's adding those things like a
useful anti-tank option rather than having to take a
shrek and it added a multi-launcher for example so this
is a case where you can have the hungarian multi-launcher alongside
the access support naval warfare okay if you're a limited or
single platoon and still keep your tank slot free for
(06:03):
something fun which okay speaking of
they do have one of the nicest armored fighting vehicles
without a turret okay what do we call them salt
guns assault guns yes they have one of
the nicest assault guns in my opinion in the book which is.
This really yeah yeah yeah yeah which is the one it's
like a stug basically meter stew and so
you get for 180 points you get
(06:25):
a medium howitzer yeah but you can add heat ammunition
for 10 points and that makes it both a
medium howitzer and a medium anti-tank yeah okay i like
that that's cool that's that's another one in the column that's two now
yeah yeah again it's not a super competitive one but it just fills
a gap that was there previously before for us
put a press come along you could pair that quite nicely like you
say with a say the dacapanza for example so you've got something
(06:48):
a little bit meaty both he and anti-tank and then you've got
your anti anti-infantry with some form of
german dacatank that's quite cool and then the thing that
photos budapest added was a lot of nice theater selectors with
their own special rules yeah so whenever i've played against
hungarians it's normally been with the pocket defenders theater
selector you mean the german theater selector that's in the book there basically
(07:09):
isn't it well i mean and that's probably where i've got this position that it's
it's a german army with different uniforms oh yeah because that selector basically
just allows you to throw in a few hungarian units into your german army the
ones that i like are ones that we very rarely see because they're armor selectors.
So they've got some really fun ones where they
the tanks can do sort of like reconnaissance moves at the beginning of the game.
(07:33):
Hungarian Armoured Field Division Armoured Platoon? Yeah, exactly.
Okay, so the Hungarian Armoured Field Division Armoured Platoon, bit of a mouthful.
So you need to take one command vehicle and two tanks, which is either your
40M two-round or your 40M two-round two.
So three of them, yeah, and then 0-3 tanks, which are effectively two-rounds
or panthers, panzerfors, tigers, or hetzer.
(07:56):
And then your usual expected selection of infantry
pioneers you can take naught three assault pioneers in this one okay
but yeah so the special rules prior to the major so the hungarian
tank crew is made up for material disadvantages with the dash and
aggression of their hussar forebears all tanks and
armored cars in the first wave or deployed on the table are
allowed to make a pre-game move after both sides
(08:17):
of the finish set up but before the first turn of the game use
the vehicle's advance rate and number of turns terrain will affect this
move during this move the unit cannot be targeted by enemies.
In ambush in addition any tank or armored car
units in reserve do not suffer the minus one role to arrive
from outflanking so it's a move not an order so
i'm guessing you can't fire at the end of this you could just move it forward
yeah it's basically lead the way but for
(08:39):
tanks yeah who's our tanks lead the way okay yeah
exactly and then again the the not getting
the minus one for the outflank it's very much if your
play style is rushing towards the enemy yeah this
is a really good list it's and the shame is we never
see it in sort of organized events because it's rare
you get to run armoured platoons in organized events sure but
(09:00):
it is a really fun one to throw in i mean
you could take three tigers and just rush them up
at the beginning of the game yeah and
then you'd be sort of 30 inches across the table by
the end of turn one because you'd go start 12 you
advance nine and then it's turn one you advance another another nine and shoot
ah yeah so at the end of the one yeah yeah you're basically in their
(09:21):
deployment zone effectively you're knocking on their door at the
end of turn one there's a lot of points and you rarely get to
use it but it is a lot of fun shouting tank fear
whenever your opponent tries to activate a unit yeah okay exactly and that's
the kind of stuff that they're getting from photos were a pest they're getting
they're basically what that book did and the reason i really like it is it it
pads out the hungarians enough to put them on a level playing field and adds
(09:43):
a bit of fun even though it didn't make them a hugely competitive force it just
just nicely brought them back up to speed with the other armies.
So that's sort of Euphoros Budapest. There's a couple of reasons there to play
Hungarians, I imagine, from your perspective. Yeah.
Still on the fence i'm not not even on
the fence i'm not convinced you're not even in the garden yet
i'm not no i'm probably just walked
(10:06):
through the gate looking at the fence across the garden i'm nowhere
near getting to it so obviously we then got case blue which is our latest thing
and there's some good fun stuff in there for hungarians because our biggest
complaint the fact they don't have national characteristics is addressed here
yeah again it's facing that same problem that i just said about the arm platoon
where you've added a lot of fun but but you might never get to use it?
(10:28):
Because it's up to the TO, because it's meant for theatre selectors in Case
Blue, but caveat being that you may allow it in a generic Hungarian platoon.
Yeah, and I think they're not overpowered, are they? Well, they could be.
Well, go on, do you want to quickly run us through what they get?
Yeah, so Hungarians in Case Blue get the improvised AT, which we discussed in
(10:50):
a previous episode, so that's where you get to re-roll any AT weapons or grenades
with less than plus three penetration.
Situation you get trial by fire which allows
you any time a hungarian officer makes a u-man
snap to action order roll a d6 on the
six an inexperienced unit within the command range of the officer unit
may be upgraded to regular very situational i
(11:11):
mean nice nice you know if it comes off and if your army has
has these inexperienced units but yeah very situational yeah
i think if you if you buy loads of inexperienced squads plan
to use this as like your gotcha you're
probably we're going to be disappointed yeah you're going to get yourself yeah yeah
so the one that is is interesting i was pausing over
is the hussar tradition so this reflects the hungarian
(11:33):
tank as being trained to quickly reposition their vehicles when
enemies were blinded by their own smoke and reloading in the game all hungarian
tanks gain the recce special rule furthermore any hungarian unit that already
has the recce special rule in its unit profile need no longer abide by the recce
restriction to move further away from the enemy or out of line of sight instead
the the unit can move in any direction when activating a recce movement,
(11:55):
including closer to the enemy. Which is pretty cool, isn't it? Yeah.
So, the question mark is, what counts as a Hungarian tank? Because in that wording,
all Hungarian tanks gain the recce special rule.
So, obviously anything in the armies of Italy in Axis is a Hungarian tank. Do.
Presumably entries in fortress budapest that
(12:17):
come under the hungary section which are tanks they
would count as hungarian tanks assuming they're available
in a generic platoon and assuming that these special rules are
being allowed in a hungarian generic platoon yeah i
mean what's quite nice is you give up your access support
in order to gain that rule okay so because these are national characteristics
the same way italy ditched theirs yeah yeah it
(12:38):
means that actually it should be fairly clear
that it's just whatever you've bought
should be legit now the one sort
of fly in the ointment if you will is that there
are some german tanks in hungarian service
that get added in fortress budapest now yeah
because they're in hungarian service i imagine that's
(13:00):
absolutely fine because this ultimately is a rule about the crew rather
than about the tanks themselves yeah okay so this this
is why and people have been talking about this since case blue
came out you could take a tiger and give it recce yeah because
the tiger appears in fortress budapest as a
hungarian unit and then the theater selects sorry the um national special rules
in case blue apply to hungarian units therefore you can have a recce tiger yeah
(13:24):
to be honest i actually don't mind having a tiger with recce because tigers
are so expensive anyway to give them some way to survive,
if someone gets the hop on you with a super heavy anti-tank gun,
to be able to reverse back around the corner is a bit of a win.
And I think it's actually a really nice thing.
The funny thing is, so in the Fortress Budapest German Wrecking Platoon,
(13:48):
you can give some of your transports wrecking, but you have to pay the 10 points.
Yes. And so what's interesting here is we're just getting it for free,
which actually, when you look at the other nations who get stuff for free,
like Japanese with Fanatics, it's not a huge boon getting 10 points a tank when
you're only going to be running, what, four tanks maximum.
On and obviously like you just said because this replaces the national
special rules in the armies of italy and axis you're not
(14:11):
going to get a hungarian tiger with recce and then
also an axis support yeah german vehicle because you
can't take the hazard tradition alongside the axis
support what would be quite nice actually is they
have the nimrod anti-aircraft yeah tank which
is well it's a tanker it's described as in the book which
is armor seven flak open topped turret mounted
(14:33):
heavy autocannon for 90 points that's cool
i like that one yeah very reasonably priced 90 points for that i think yeah
and so if you could give that recce as well for free okay so i'm starting to
see a dual platoon thousand point generic list where i've got those two nimrods
with his art tradition and then i've got my assault pioneers from fortress budapest.
(14:54):
Spilling out of their transports and then
fleshed out with units that look suspiciously like germans and
then on that note of spilling out the transports the faq did
just give them machine guns for their transports okay which was
one of the big complaints i had if i did yeah run
those pioneers you end up in that situation where you
end up buying the experience truck it doesn't arrive but
it's not worth paying for the regular truck he's not going to be shooting anyway
(15:16):
and all that sort of stuff now they're gonna have machine guns that does make
it a little bit more tempting again we're getting there but you're still leaning
german and going i'm moving Moving towards the centre of the garden with the fence in front of me,
I'm not yet up to the fence, deciding whether or not to hop over.
Of course, as well, the other problem here is it requires any event you go to,
(15:41):
to allow you to run the Case Blue rules. Yeah. Which isn't a given.
No. But if it was, then I'd love to run those Nimrods.
To be honest, if they allowed me to run an armoured platoon,
where I could take sort of five Nimrods, anyone brings an air observer, I've got this down.
Yeah. Who brings an air observer to attack platoon game? God.
Like a knife to a gunfight. So I bring my five, I bring my five wrecking Nimrods.
(16:07):
And then actually that would be a time to lean into those fairly
mundane veteran units that you can take with just smgs
or motivated elite or whatever sort of functional against
you you want i mean if we build it the way you were saying
there the pioneers a good addition from the
faq is the cavalry that's now allowed to charge
and then i can make my hq put
(16:28):
them on cavalry on horses yeah they're fanatic
well if we're using the new national characteristics you're going
to lose that fanaticism on your officer so okay okay
that's that's a scratch that one off the list yeah
but to be honest all the times i've ran hungarians it's never
been relevant no because i've either lost them to something
big yeah or it's been a rifle fire they
(16:49):
would have passed the test on anyway and it was and then once you're down
to one man you're no longer fanatic anyway are you so okay so
i'm not sold i'm quite
happy with my germans as it is i don't feel that i need
to change nationality however what
are the the miniatures like do they have do the miniatures look
cool are the vehicles looking cool am i going to enjoy collecting
(17:11):
and painting them i think you will especially if you like metal minis
okay so for me the way i built mine was i
used the winter germans as sort of the starting point yeah i then padded out
from there again i was theming around fortress budapest and so i've got a lot
of soviet captured weapons and that's the way that i went because i like plastics
but if you like metals There are lots of different metal models available.
(17:35):
Okay. Have you had a look at the ranges before?
Only from the other side of the table.
I'm just having a look to see if there's any more units before we go down the
modelling rabbit hole. I've just found the Arrowcross Militia section.
Yeah? So it's 25 points for five men, inexperienced, armed with rifles.
(17:56):
They are shirkers, but they also have fatalistic zeal, and they count as fanatic during close combat.
Yeah, for 20 points you get five men. 25 points. They're five points a man.
So you can have a 10-man shirker vaguely fanatic
in close combat squad that's a bit different it's quite
nice for holding objectives on your back lines where especially if you're
(18:16):
out of line of sight so they're not going to take any shooting and
your opponent's going to have to come and charge you yeah that's they're
kind of cool the huzzah reconnaissance squad
now here's an interesting little rules faq for you here sir
yeah do you remember when they added the cavalry for hungary
in case blue but they added the hussar
(18:37):
reconnaissance section which is basically men on horses but
they're not allowed to charge they added as its own special rule now
that's in the armies off this is the case blue squad page
111 now they've fixed
the unit in the main book and the armies of italy and access book and now they
can charge but i guess these hussars still can't charge even though the same
(18:58):
points see what you mean yeah i mean i imagine the next faq will include some
more tidying up of the case police stuff because i know alex smith was collecting.
Things that people wanted to address by
warlord yeah well hopefully if anyone's listening yeah at
warlord here's a quick fix for you get that nicely aligned
(19:18):
equally let the bulgarians and the romanian cavalry charge man yeah that was
the biggest thing for me from the faq was that that the hungarians could but
the bulgarians and romanians couldn't that's a separate episode when we get
to romania and bulgaria but clearly whoever's proofreading the faq is hungarian quite possibly yeah.
But i mean ultimately we're looking at a force
(19:40):
that its big strength is to use the single platoon
to its advantage by adding an axe of support
if you do it from those rules if you're doing it from the case blue rules i
think your advantage here is to have a recce tank that's the main takeaway for
me yeah well then potentially things like at rifles like autocannon on your
vehicles heavy autocannon on your vehicles because it's plus three as well so
(20:02):
yeah i can see how case Haze Blue has made them a bit more interesting,
but I'm still going to stick with my Germans, I'm afraid.
Yeah, couldn't tempt you. Not a man of culture, sorry. I have to say I would,
for a sort of a thematic tournament where they're going to let me use the new
national characteristics,
I would be very tempted to run either a Panther or a Tiger with the Wrecking Rose,
(20:24):
just because it'd be really fun to be able to sort of reverse your Tiger up
to take a shot, et cetera.
Yeah, so the Warlord miniatures are nice, and the great escapers
will have a decent range they've got winter summer and the
little section of cavalry hungarians as well
so i guess if you were interested in modeling them
there are some options out there you're not just looking at warlord games for
(20:46):
example i mean presumably you could use german models you could i'm guessing
there's going to be some element of a crossover with some of the italian uniforms
or italian kit somewhat i think though i'm mainly using the is Is it the Stahlhelm, we call it?
So they're mainly using Stahlhelms. And so a lot of the thematic fighting is
(21:09):
winter-based. So you put them in a grey coat.
Any grey-coated model, stick a German head on it. Any grey coat will do.
Yeah, make sure you paint some fantastic facial hair. Of course,
yeah. And then you're probably the most thematic you can be, really.
You're good to go. Have you seen the... Oh, what was the one I was just looking at?
Oh, the gendarmes. They get gendarmes where 12 points regular, five men.
(21:30):
Rifles but you can re-roll morale checks
if within 12 inches of the gendarmes
so they feel a bit like they're like they feel
like there's a lot of stuff there's a lot of things going on from other
nations across the bolt actions of the
world and they're kind of taking the bit here and a bit there and a bit there
put it all into a melting pot produce something that feels very german but with
(21:54):
some little flavoring characteristics but it doesn't feel like it's stitching
together in such a way that I can really build a solid competitive relationship.
List yeah i would agree they
are sort of like the greatest hits on them they're like the bolt
action rules greatest hits like oh do you fancy being able
(22:16):
to do this do you fancy being able to do this let's take
some inexperienced fanatics very similar to japan
and malicious make them green let's make them green we'll chuck
in some some inexperienced soviet green re-rolls yeah
we'll have some gendarmes yeah it
is that basically it but i think that probably is quite
thematic like that yeah in the middle of it all grabbing stuff
(22:37):
where they can for me it is the fact that they
lack they lack sort of their own usp yes because
they've just grabbed all these little bits from all over the shop there's not
a single thing that they are the best at which is
kind of what i criticize the us for to be fair but their
usp is the foreign maneuver for the us yeah
the usp for the us is they're an easy starting army because
(22:57):
if you misdeploy them you can just whip over
without any movement i imagine someone who's
really good with the hungarians because you've got a lot of times if you
give it sort of years of fiddling and just sort of
like getting your army just right and dropping this unit
to add this unit because you found you needed something to outflank i imagine
you could get them really competitive but they're not an
(23:18):
army where you sort of put something down and say this is
a combat army or this is a long-range blasting
army and that kind of stuff and so yeah i.
Think for me they just they lack a specific play style
so they probably are a great army for the person
who wants sort of the the all-rounder list the all-comers
all-rounder list that doesn't have a sort of specific way it has to play each
(23:41):
mission and you sort of just push up different parts which is sort of like you
brits if you take away the gherkas and the daca stewards yeah yeah yeah i got
me going back to you know my initial slightly slightly facetious comment at the start,
which is they're like Germans, but with an extra unit.
If you look at Italy, both in the original Armies of Italy in the Axis and also
(24:02):
more recently with Case Blue, they're like Germans,
They are very, very distinct and unique. The Finns are very,
very distinct and unique.
The Bulgarians are very distinct and unique, and we'll cover that in a future episode.
Hungary and Romania, to me, don't feel distinct and therefore don't make me
want to jump in and play them because they don't have a USP,
(24:24):
like you said, which I want to lean into.
Not because I don't like the USP, just because I don't actually think there is a USP.
No, they're a bit of an all-arounder, And I think for me, the,
the Romanians, when we get to them, I think are a little bit more interesting
because especially if you're allowed to play them on the allied side,
they have some really unique strengths there.
(24:44):
But the Hungarians for me, what I've just, as we're talking here,
what I've realized is there's not an infantry choice that I'm excited about putting on the table.
The most excited I'd be would be those pioneers.
But the whole time I'm thinking, is it worth that extra point a man to get the
D2 pins when I pass an order test?
And i'm not sure it is can you take an
(25:05):
armored carrier transport for the hungarians
like a brand obviously not brand carry
but like a brand carrier or console console on the left it's a
great question i'm just thinking about that i think now in
the armies of italy book you can't okay
there is access to the 250 as your
access support yeah but that's too expensive but then you're using your slot
(25:28):
for an armored carrier transport so what are you thinking like what are you
dreaming up here because if there was a way to get those pioneers to where they
need to be on the tabletop and not in a soft skin so you're not putting them in a truck,
the ability to remove the pins when you jump out might be interesting because
you're driving around in your seven plus vehicle you're taking pins because
(25:52):
you're open tops potentially but then you're going to shed the pins hopefully
when you jump out and start flaming if however all you can can do is just drive them up in the truck.
Which may or may not get blown up before you can get to your destination.
Or you're having to use an Axis support slot to buy a half-track,
an over-costed half-track, it's not really working for me.
(26:14):
Yeah. You see, I don't mind having to use a soft skin. I'm fine with that.
The problem for me is if you are trying to go the barbecue list route.
Paying 55 points for your regulars, and then you're down to passing EuroTest on a 7 with two pins,
that worries me more than getting out in
the flamethrower hitting on a fall yeah yeah you may not even get out
(26:36):
irrespective whether or not you shed any pins yeah now if you
went the other way and you went the german style of pioneers where you
just view this like a german list and you build them as veteran
pioneers for survivability and now
your germans have two pins but they're passing on an
eight with a 50 50 shot of getting out with no pins and
hitting on three with a flamethrower now that might be
(26:56):
a more interesting build so yeah use your
flamethrowers in a more elite fashion rather than in a
spam fashion no but i could just do that with pioneers and field cars
so but you don't get that d2 pins i know
but i'm not paying an extra point for him you see and this is the thing with
this ability i think if it was a free ability then it gives the hungarians something
over the germans and it's not like that they'd be super overpowered either because
(27:21):
half half the time nothing happens in fact in my experience most of the time it doesn't happen.
So but i think that's confirmation bias yeah but
i don't think it's worth i i think you're right i think the question is is it
worth a point a man and i'm not sure it is and i think this is one of the sort
of the credits of fortis budapest but also the criticisms is everything was
(27:43):
costed every single thing was given a points cost and so you've got abilities
that are costing you one point a man that probably aren't worth one point a man.
And so I think maybe what would have been good is to make it five points a unit
to encourage people to take the bigger unit so you're only paying half a point a man.
Yeah, which would be very different to how any other units costed,
(28:04):
but that's a nice way of doing it, yeah?
Yeah because the problem is there are some abilities that
are worth less than one point man but one point is
the smallest unit of currency yeah yeah sure yeah okay
but there we go i think there is a place
for hungarians in the thematic and the competitive but maybe
he's not certainly not in my collection no no
(28:25):
no i mean i've got them i do really like the tanks their
tanks are pretty cool and unique the journey's got
like mesh you know the spaced armor that you get on on the side of
the panzers the skirts yeah yeah it's got like a mesh skirt
that's quite cool yeah so there's that and i
think i got that from mad bob right just jumping back
to the minis conversation i think mad bob
(28:46):
was one of the first people to bring out a range of hungarian tanks
but obviously now you can 3d print them and
get them from a range of sources so i'm genuinely interested to
hear from those hungarian players out there why you play them what
you like using in your list what have i missed
why is my they're just like germans with an extra vehicle view not correct let
(29:06):
us know in the comments send us a message please do share like and subscribe
and leave us a review it always warms our hearts when we read a nice review
from someone who who listens and takes the time to do so tata for now tata for now.
Music.
Music.
(00:08):
Welcome to Tabletop Tommies. I'm Jonny. And I'm Phil.
And in today's episode we're talking about the armies of Hungary.
We'll not be going through every single unit. We're going to be looking at one
specific question that Phil asked which is why would I play Hungary rather than playing Germany?
It's a great question. It's one that I'm sure many competitive players have
(00:30):
asked themselves many times.
I think the first reason is if you're not competitive theme.
Yep. Which which is really a subjective measure, so it's not really one we could
spend a long time talking about.
But I think if you're thematically inclined, then who are we to tell you not to play Hungary?
Which is an absolutely justified and valid reason. But my limited experience of playing Hungary,
(00:50):
or playing against Hungary, I should say, having never played them,
is I mostly see people play a German army in all but name, possibly with different
colours, with an extra unit because of the Axis special rule.
And this is obviously up until Case Blue, where Case Blue has added in some interesting new rules,
which may make me reconsider my position but
from a sort of layman's simplistic perspective they're
(01:12):
like germany with an extra unit yeah so from purely a
competitive point of view the main reason to play
hungry would be if you have a platoon limit of one at a tournament then you've
got a sneaky advantage because you can throw in an extra something yeah i think
it'll be useful sure so you can throw in an extra multi launcher an extra tank
especially now you you you can throw in the DAKA Panzer for the Germans as your access support unit.
(01:36):
But you're right, I used to play Hungary and I stopped playing them because
it did just feel like playing Germany, but with less...
Toys basically and also less national characteristics
because the only thing the hungarians have is as we said access support
where you can take anything up to armor nine as in
you can't take armor 10 11 and it can't be veteran but
otherwise you can have anything from the armies of germany or the italian
(01:59):
eastern front theater selector so that's a nice way to pad out
a second artillery unit or some extra troops whatever
you feel will benefit you most of the tournament but other
than that the only other national characteristic is that their officer's fanatic but
of course he doesn't last very long in close quarters anyway so it doesn't make
a and if he's taking a big high explosive shell or a
flamethrower he's not going to survive it just from
(02:20):
the wounds alone is he absolutely yeah i mean if you look at
say for example bulgaria which is you know another one of the minor nations
that has an interesting special rule at least one interesting special rule and
we'll cover that in a future episode for me that the hungarian special rules
in the armies of italy the fact that you can have fanatic hq units is neither
here nor there for the reasons you just said because they don't last very long yeah now Now,
(02:40):
one of the benefits from my perspective that Fort Worth Budapest added,
they added assault pioneers who could be regular.
Now, you are paying an extra point per model because they've got the motivated
elite special rule where if they pass an order test, they lose D2 pins.
So they're actually 11 points a man. But what it means is if you do want to
take cheaper engineers than veteran engineers, you've got an option in here.
(03:03):
And so that was one of the competitive reasons you might want to look at Hungary
over Germany if you're into your flamethrower spam.
Side note can you not take regular pioneers in germany
with one of the four shimago no one of the ss units so
with the germans they added the
waffen pioneer squad us d-day d-day us sectors let me open this page 142 onwards
(03:27):
waffen ss pioneer squad so it counts as infantry for the purpose of the generic
selector it can replace any pioneer assault engineer units in any late German selector,
but there's a maximum of one Waffen-SS Pioneer Slate-Wall per platoon.
And so unless it's a theater selector where it allows you to take more than
one, you are limited to one regular in the Germans.
(03:52):
That is a benefit of Hungry that they have access to as many regulars as they want.
If you want to spam sort of five flamethrowers or higher in a competitive tournament.
Okay. But then, of course, the counterpoint to that is compared to,
say, the US, you're paying five points a squad extra.
But then, of course, the counterpoint to that is if you take lots of pins coming
in on your truck, you can lose D2 getting off the truck.
(04:15):
So that could mean that there's a situation where your flamethrower gets off
and would have had one pin but ends up with zero.
So it's hitting back on threes instead of fours or fours instead
of fives okay i'm going to put a one in the hungary column
for an advantage over germany on
that basis perfect so i hope we're going to keep score as
we go other than that there isn't a huge
(04:35):
amount in fortress budapest for the hungarians
that really catches my eye from the
way i play competitively there's a lot of like really good stuff that
i imagine you would like like fanatics and veterans smg squads
so the parachute assault section you get
five men for 78 points because they've got
tough as old boots cool and so
(04:57):
and they're motivated elite i mean okay and
so you're paying 15 points a man basically this is more my
language come on the nc also has
an smg and yeah up to four
additional men can have smgs and two fausts so you can make yourself
for 100 points you can have five guys guys
with tough as all boots who are motivated elite who all have smgs and have two
(05:20):
fouse perfect excellent my eight dice thousand point list i'm all over it brilliant
but that's the kind of stuff other than that really that you're looking at in
fortress budapest it does add things like the 44 millimeter.
Pan pancellar yeah rocket launcher pancellar yeah
yeah but that's just a bazooka so what it's done i
think what fort was put a pest in is didn't make hungary one
(05:42):
of the competitive nations but it brought them up to a level where
they could compete because it's adding those things like a
useful anti-tank option rather than having to take a
shrek and it added a multi-launcher for example so this
is a case where you can have the hungarian multi-launcher alongside
the access support naval warfare okay if you're a limited or
single platoon and still keep your tank slot free for
(06:03):
something fun which okay speaking of
they do have one of the nicest armored fighting vehicles
without a turret okay what do we call them salt
guns assault guns yes they have one of
the nicest assault guns in my opinion in the book which is.
This really yeah yeah yeah yeah which is the one it's
like a stug basically meter stew and so
you get for 180 points you get
(06:25):
a medium howitzer yeah but you can add heat ammunition
for 10 points and that makes it both a
medium howitzer and a medium anti-tank yeah okay i like
that that's cool that's that's another one in the column that's two now
yeah yeah again it's not a super competitive one but it just fills
a gap that was there previously before for us
put a press come along you could pair that quite nicely like you
say with a say the dacapanza for example so you've got something
(06:48):
a little bit meaty both he and anti-tank and then you've got
your anti anti-infantry with some form of
german dacatank that's quite cool and then the thing that
photos budapest added was a lot of nice theater selectors with
their own special rules yeah so whenever i've played against
hungarians it's normally been with the pocket defenders theater
selector you mean the german theater selector that's in the book there basically
(07:09):
isn't it well i mean and that's probably where i've got this position that it's
it's a german army with different uniforms oh yeah because that selector basically
just allows you to throw in a few hungarian units into your german army the
ones that i like are ones that we very rarely see because they're armor selectors.
So they've got some really fun ones where they
the tanks can do sort of like reconnaissance moves at the beginning of the game.
(07:33):
Hungarian Armoured Field Division Armoured Platoon? Yeah, exactly.
Okay, so the Hungarian Armoured Field Division Armoured Platoon, bit of a mouthful.
So you need to take one command vehicle and two tanks, which is either your
40M two-round or your 40M two-round two.
So three of them, yeah, and then 0-3 tanks, which are effectively two-rounds
or panthers, panzerfors, tigers, or hetzer.
(07:56):
And then your usual expected selection of infantry
pioneers you can take naught three assault pioneers in this one okay
but yeah so the special rules prior to the major so the hungarian
tank crew is made up for material disadvantages with the dash and
aggression of their hussar forebears all tanks and
armored cars in the first wave or deployed on the table are
allowed to make a pre-game move after both sides
(08:17):
of the finish set up but before the first turn of the game use
the vehicle's advance rate and number of turns terrain will affect this
move during this move the unit cannot be targeted by enemies.
In ambush in addition any tank or armored car
units in reserve do not suffer the minus one role to arrive
from outflanking so it's a move not an order so
i'm guessing you can't fire at the end of this you could just move it forward
yeah it's basically lead the way but for
(08:39):
tanks yeah who's our tanks lead the way okay yeah
exactly and then again the the not getting
the minus one for the outflank it's very much if your
play style is rushing towards the enemy yeah this
is a really good list it's and the shame is we never
see it in sort of organized events because it's rare
you get to run armoured platoons in organized events sure but
(09:00):
it is a really fun one to throw in i mean
you could take three tigers and just rush them up
at the beginning of the game yeah and
then you'd be sort of 30 inches across the table by
the end of turn one because you'd go start 12 you
advance nine and then it's turn one you advance another another nine and shoot
ah yeah so at the end of the one yeah yeah you're basically in their
(09:21):
deployment zone effectively you're knocking on their door at the
end of turn one there's a lot of points and you rarely get to
use it but it is a lot of fun shouting tank fear
whenever your opponent tries to activate a unit yeah okay exactly and that's
the kind of stuff that they're getting from photos were a pest they're getting
they're basically what that book did and the reason i really like it is it it
pads out the hungarians enough to put them on a level playing field and adds
(09:43):
a bit of fun even though it didn't make them a hugely competitive force it just
just nicely brought them back up to speed with the other armies.
So that's sort of Euphoros Budapest. There's a couple of reasons there to play
Hungarians, I imagine, from your perspective. Yeah.
Still on the fence i'm not not even on
the fence i'm not convinced you're not even in the garden yet
i'm not no i'm probably just walked
(10:06):
through the gate looking at the fence across the garden i'm nowhere
near getting to it so obviously we then got case blue which is our latest thing
and there's some good fun stuff in there for hungarians because our biggest
complaint the fact they don't have national characteristics is addressed here
yeah again it's facing that same problem that i just said about the arm platoon
where you've added a lot of fun but but you might never get to use it?
(10:28):
Because it's up to the TO, because it's meant for theatre selectors in Case
Blue, but caveat being that you may allow it in a generic Hungarian platoon.
Yeah, and I think they're not overpowered, are they? Well, they could be.
Well, go on, do you want to quickly run us through what they get?
Yeah, so Hungarians in Case Blue get the improvised AT, which we discussed in
(10:50):
a previous episode, so that's where you get to re-roll any AT weapons or grenades
with less than plus three penetration.
Situation you get trial by fire which allows
you any time a hungarian officer makes a u-man
snap to action order roll a d6 on the
six an inexperienced unit within the command range of the officer unit
may be upgraded to regular very situational i
(11:11):
mean nice nice you know if it comes off and if your army has
has these inexperienced units but yeah very situational yeah
i think if you if you buy loads of inexperienced squads plan
to use this as like your gotcha you're
probably we're going to be disappointed yeah you're going to get yourself yeah yeah
so the one that is is interesting i was pausing over
is the hussar tradition so this reflects the hungarian
(11:33):
tank as being trained to quickly reposition their vehicles when
enemies were blinded by their own smoke and reloading in the game all hungarian
tanks gain the recce special rule furthermore any hungarian unit that already
has the recce special rule in its unit profile need no longer abide by the recce
restriction to move further away from the enemy or out of line of sight instead
the the unit can move in any direction when activating a recce movement,
(11:55):
including closer to the enemy. Which is pretty cool, isn't it? Yeah.
So, the question mark is, what counts as a Hungarian tank? Because in that wording,
all Hungarian tanks gain the recce special rule.
So, obviously anything in the armies of Italy in Axis is a Hungarian tank. Do.
Presumably entries in fortress budapest that
(12:17):
come under the hungary section which are tanks they
would count as hungarian tanks assuming they're available
in a generic platoon and assuming that these special rules are
being allowed in a hungarian generic platoon yeah i
mean what's quite nice is you give up your access support
in order to gain that rule okay so because these are national characteristics
the same way italy ditched theirs yeah yeah it
(12:38):
means that actually it should be fairly clear
that it's just whatever you've bought
should be legit now the one sort
of fly in the ointment if you will is that there
are some german tanks in hungarian service
that get added in fortress budapest now yeah
because they're in hungarian service i imagine that's
(13:00):
absolutely fine because this ultimately is a rule about the crew rather
than about the tanks themselves yeah okay so this this
is why and people have been talking about this since case blue
came out you could take a tiger and give it recce yeah because
the tiger appears in fortress budapest as a
hungarian unit and then the theater selects sorry the um national special rules
in case blue apply to hungarian units therefore you can have a recce tiger yeah
(13:24):
to be honest i actually don't mind having a tiger with recce because tigers
are so expensive anyway to give them some way to survive,
if someone gets the hop on you with a super heavy anti-tank gun,
to be able to reverse back around the corner is a bit of a win.
And I think it's actually a really nice thing.
The funny thing is, so in the Fortress Budapest German Wrecking Platoon,
(13:48):
you can give some of your transports wrecking, but you have to pay the 10 points.
Yes. And so what's interesting here is we're just getting it for free,
which actually, when you look at the other nations who get stuff for free,
like Japanese with Fanatics, it's not a huge boon getting 10 points a tank when
you're only going to be running, what, four tanks maximum.
On and obviously like you just said because this replaces the national
special rules in the armies of italy and axis you're not
(14:11):
going to get a hungarian tiger with recce and then
also an axis support yeah german vehicle because you
can't take the hazard tradition alongside the axis
support what would be quite nice actually is they
have the nimrod anti-aircraft yeah tank which
is well it's a tanker it's described as in the book which
is armor seven flak open topped turret mounted
(14:33):
heavy autocannon for 90 points that's cool
i like that one yeah very reasonably priced 90 points for that i think yeah
and so if you could give that recce as well for free okay so i'm starting to
see a dual platoon thousand point generic list where i've got those two nimrods
with his art tradition and then i've got my assault pioneers from fortress budapest.
(14:54):
Spilling out of their transports and then
fleshed out with units that look suspiciously like germans and
then on that note of spilling out the transports the faq did
just give them machine guns for their transports okay which was
one of the big complaints i had if i did yeah run
those pioneers you end up in that situation where you
end up buying the experience truck it doesn't arrive but
it's not worth paying for the regular truck he's not going to be shooting anyway
(15:16):
and all that sort of stuff now they're gonna have machine guns that does make
it a little bit more tempting again we're getting there but you're still leaning
german and going i'm moving Moving towards the centre of the garden with the fence in front of me,
I'm not yet up to the fence, deciding whether or not to hop over.
Of course, as well, the other problem here is it requires any event you go to,
(15:41):
to allow you to run the Case Blue rules. Yeah. Which isn't a given.
No. But if it was, then I'd love to run those Nimrods.
To be honest, if they allowed me to run an armoured platoon,
where I could take sort of five Nimrods, anyone brings an air observer, I've got this down.
Yeah. Who brings an air observer to attack platoon game? God.
Like a knife to a gunfight. So I bring my five, I bring my five wrecking Nimrods.
(16:07):
And then actually that would be a time to lean into those fairly
mundane veteran units that you can take with just smgs
or motivated elite or whatever sort of functional against
you you want i mean if we build it the way you were saying
there the pioneers a good addition from the
faq is the cavalry that's now allowed to charge
and then i can make my hq put
(16:28):
them on cavalry on horses yeah they're fanatic
well if we're using the new national characteristics you're going
to lose that fanaticism on your officer so okay okay
that's that's a scratch that one off the list yeah
but to be honest all the times i've ran hungarians it's never
been relevant no because i've either lost them to something
big yeah or it's been a rifle fire they
(16:49):
would have passed the test on anyway and it was and then once you're down
to one man you're no longer fanatic anyway are you so okay so
i'm not sold i'm quite
happy with my germans as it is i don't feel that i need
to change nationality however what
are the the miniatures like do they have do the miniatures look
cool are the vehicles looking cool am i going to enjoy collecting
(17:11):
and painting them i think you will especially if you like metal minis
okay so for me the way i built mine was i
used the winter germans as sort of the starting point yeah i then padded out
from there again i was theming around fortress budapest and so i've got a lot
of soviet captured weapons and that's the way that i went because i like plastics
but if you like metals There are lots of different metal models available.
(17:35):
Okay. Have you had a look at the ranges before?
Only from the other side of the table.
I'm just having a look to see if there's any more units before we go down the
modelling rabbit hole. I've just found the Arrowcross Militia section.
Yeah? So it's 25 points for five men, inexperienced, armed with rifles.
(17:56):
They are shirkers, but they also have fatalistic zeal, and they count as fanatic during close combat.
Yeah, for 20 points you get five men. 25 points. They're five points a man.
So you can have a 10-man shirker vaguely fanatic
in close combat squad that's a bit different it's quite
nice for holding objectives on your back lines where especially if you're
(18:16):
out of line of sight so they're not going to take any shooting and
your opponent's going to have to come and charge you yeah that's they're
kind of cool the huzzah reconnaissance squad
now here's an interesting little rules faq for you here sir
yeah do you remember when they added the cavalry for hungary
in case blue but they added the hussar
(18:37):
reconnaissance section which is basically men on horses but
they're not allowed to charge they added as its own special rule now
that's in the armies off this is the case blue squad page
111 now they've fixed
the unit in the main book and the armies of italy and access book and now they
can charge but i guess these hussars still can't charge even though the same
(18:58):
points see what you mean yeah i mean i imagine the next faq will include some
more tidying up of the case police stuff because i know alex smith was collecting.
Things that people wanted to address by
warlord yeah well hopefully if anyone's listening yeah at
warlord here's a quick fix for you get that nicely aligned
(19:18):
equally let the bulgarians and the romanian cavalry charge man yeah that was
the biggest thing for me from the faq was that that the hungarians could but
the bulgarians and romanians couldn't that's a separate episode when we get
to romania and bulgaria but clearly whoever's proofreading the faq is hungarian quite possibly yeah.
But i mean ultimately we're looking at a force
(19:40):
that its big strength is to use the single platoon
to its advantage by adding an axe of support
if you do it from those rules if you're doing it from the case blue rules i
think your advantage here is to have a recce tank that's the main takeaway for
me yeah well then potentially things like at rifles like autocannon on your
vehicles heavy autocannon on your vehicles because it's plus three as well so
(20:02):
yeah i can see how case Haze Blue has made them a bit more interesting,
but I'm still going to stick with my Germans, I'm afraid.
Yeah, couldn't tempt you. Not a man of culture, sorry. I have to say I would,
for a sort of a thematic tournament where they're going to let me use the new
national characteristics,
I would be very tempted to run either a Panther or a Tiger with the Wrecking Rose,
(20:24):
just because it'd be really fun to be able to sort of reverse your Tiger up
to take a shot, et cetera.
Yeah, so the Warlord miniatures are nice, and the great escapers
will have a decent range they've got winter summer and the
little section of cavalry hungarians as well
so i guess if you were interested in modeling them
there are some options out there you're not just looking at warlord games for
(20:46):
example i mean presumably you could use german models you could i'm guessing
there's going to be some element of a crossover with some of the italian uniforms
or italian kit somewhat i think though i'm mainly using the is Is it the Stahlhelm, we call it?
So they're mainly using Stahlhelms. And so a lot of the thematic fighting is
(21:09):
winter-based. So you put them in a grey coat.
Any grey-coated model, stick a German head on it. Any grey coat will do.
Yeah, make sure you paint some fantastic facial hair. Of course,
yeah. And then you're probably the most thematic you can be, really.
You're good to go. Have you seen the... Oh, what was the one I was just looking at?
Oh, the gendarmes. They get gendarmes where 12 points regular, five men.
(21:30):
Rifles but you can re-roll morale checks
if within 12 inches of the gendarmes
so they feel a bit like they're like they feel
like there's a lot of stuff there's a lot of things going on from other
nations across the bolt actions of the
world and they're kind of taking the bit here and a bit there and a bit there
put it all into a melting pot produce something that feels very german but with
(21:54):
some little flavoring characteristics but it doesn't feel like it's stitching
together in such a way that I can really build a solid competitive relationship.
List yeah i would agree they
are sort of like the greatest hits on them they're like the bolt
action rules greatest hits like oh do you fancy being able
(22:16):
to do this do you fancy being able to do this let's take
some inexperienced fanatics very similar to japan
and malicious make them green let's make them green we'll chuck
in some some inexperienced soviet green re-rolls yeah
we'll have some gendarmes yeah it
is that basically it but i think that probably is quite
thematic like that yeah in the middle of it all grabbing stuff
(22:37):
where they can for me it is the fact that they
lack they lack sort of their own usp yes because
they've just grabbed all these little bits from all over the shop there's not
a single thing that they are the best at which is
kind of what i criticize the us for to be fair but their
usp is the foreign maneuver for the us yeah
the usp for the us is they're an easy starting army because
(22:57):
if you misdeploy them you can just whip over
without any movement i imagine someone who's
really good with the hungarians because you've got a lot of times if you
give it sort of years of fiddling and just sort of
like getting your army just right and dropping this unit
to add this unit because you found you needed something to outflank i imagine
you could get them really competitive but they're not an
(23:18):
army where you sort of put something down and say this is
a combat army or this is a long-range blasting
army and that kind of stuff and so yeah i.
Think for me they just they lack a specific play style
so they probably are a great army for the person
who wants sort of the the all-rounder list the all-comers
all-rounder list that doesn't have a sort of specific way it has to play each
(23:41):
mission and you sort of just push up different parts which is sort of like you
brits if you take away the gherkas and the daca stewards yeah yeah yeah i got
me going back to you know my initial slightly slightly facetious comment at the start,
which is they're like Germans, but with an extra unit.
If you look at Italy, both in the original Armies of Italy in the Axis and also
(24:02):
more recently with Case Blue, they're like Germans,
They are very, very distinct and unique. The Finns are very,
very distinct and unique.
The Bulgarians are very distinct and unique, and we'll cover that in a future episode.
Hungary and Romania, to me, don't feel distinct and therefore don't make me
want to jump in and play them because they don't have a USP,
(24:24):
like you said, which I want to lean into.
Not because I don't like the USP, just because I don't actually think there is a USP.
No, they're a bit of an all-arounder, And I think for me, the,
the Romanians, when we get to them, I think are a little bit more interesting
because especially if you're allowed to play them on the allied side,
they have some really unique strengths there.
(24:44):
But the Hungarians for me, what I've just, as we're talking here,
what I've realized is there's not an infantry choice that I'm excited about putting on the table.
The most excited I'd be would be those pioneers.
But the whole time I'm thinking, is it worth that extra point a man to get the
D2 pins when I pass an order test?
And i'm not sure it is can you take an
(25:05):
armored carrier transport for the hungarians
like a brand obviously not brand carry
but like a brand carrier or console console on the left it's a
great question i'm just thinking about that i think now in
the armies of italy book you can't okay
there is access to the 250 as your
access support yeah but that's too expensive but then you're using your slot
(25:28):
for an armored carrier transport so what are you thinking like what are you
dreaming up here because if there was a way to get those pioneers to where they
need to be on the tabletop and not in a soft skin so you're not putting them in a truck,
the ability to remove the pins when you jump out might be interesting because
you're driving around in your seven plus vehicle you're taking pins because
(25:52):
you're open tops potentially but then you're going to shed the pins hopefully
when you jump out and start flaming if however all you can can do is just drive them up in the truck.
Which may or may not get blown up before you can get to your destination.
Or you're having to use an Axis support slot to buy a half-track,
an over-costed half-track, it's not really working for me.
(26:14):
Yeah. You see, I don't mind having to use a soft skin. I'm fine with that.
The problem for me is if you are trying to go the barbecue list route.
Paying 55 points for your regulars, and then you're down to passing EuroTest on a 7 with two pins,
that worries me more than getting out in
the flamethrower hitting on a fall yeah yeah you may not even get out
(26:36):
irrespective whether or not you shed any pins yeah now if you
went the other way and you went the german style of pioneers where you
just view this like a german list and you build them as veteran
pioneers for survivability and now
your germans have two pins but they're passing on an
eight with a 50 50 shot of getting out with no pins and
hitting on three with a flamethrower now that might be
(26:56):
a more interesting build so yeah use your
flamethrowers in a more elite fashion rather than in a
spam fashion no but i could just do that with pioneers and field cars
so but you don't get that d2 pins i know
but i'm not paying an extra point for him you see and this is the thing with
this ability i think if it was a free ability then it gives the hungarians something
over the germans and it's not like that they'd be super overpowered either because
(27:21):
half half the time nothing happens in fact in my experience most of the time it doesn't happen.
So but i think that's confirmation bias yeah but
i don't think it's worth i i think you're right i think the question is is it
worth a point a man and i'm not sure it is and i think this is one of the sort
of the credits of fortis budapest but also the criticisms is everything was
(27:43):
costed every single thing was given a points cost and so you've got abilities
that are costing you one point a man that probably aren't worth one point a man.
And so I think maybe what would have been good is to make it five points a unit
to encourage people to take the bigger unit so you're only paying half a point a man.
Yeah, which would be very different to how any other units costed,
(28:04):
but that's a nice way of doing it, yeah?
Yeah because the problem is there are some abilities that
are worth less than one point man but one point is
the smallest unit of currency yeah yeah sure yeah okay
but there we go i think there is a place
for hungarians in the thematic and the competitive but maybe
he's not certainly not in my collection no no
(28:25):
no i mean i've got them i do really like the tanks their
tanks are pretty cool and unique the journey's got
like mesh you know the spaced armor that you get on on the side of
the panzers the skirts yeah yeah it's got like a mesh skirt
that's quite cool yeah so there's that and i
think i got that from mad bob right just jumping back
to the minis conversation i think mad bob
(28:46):
was one of the first people to bring out a range of hungarian tanks
but obviously now you can 3d print them and
get them from a range of sources so i'm genuinely interested to
hear from those hungarian players out there why you play them what
you like using in your list what have i missed
why is my they're just like germans with an extra vehicle view not correct let
(29:06):
us know in the comments send us a message please do share like and subscribe
and leave us a review it always warms our hearts when we read a nice review
from someone who who listens and takes the time to do so tata for now tata for now.
Music.
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