December 6, 2023 • 33 mins
Description: Join us as we unravel the key components of a successful succession plan, offering insights into:
- Identifying and developing internal talent
- Fostering a culture of continuous learning
- Mitigating potential risks
Learn how to navigate leadership transitions and ensure the long-term success of your organization through effective succession planning strategies.
Resources:
The Business Case for Succession Planning
Succession Planning Tracking Chart
Let's Connect:
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Dana Vogelmeier
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:03 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler, and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:05 - 00:00:45:18 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of 30 Minute THRIVE. So today we're going to be talking about succession planning, and I found this stat a bit shocking. So every day in the US, 10,000 people turn 65. And to add to that stat, the average retirement age in the United States is 61, according to a 2022 Gallup survey.
00:00:45:20 - 00:01:07:17 Unknown So those are all pretty significant numbers in the world of work. So the impact is huge. Today, like I said, it only makes sense now that we're here to talk about succession planning. So succession planning is a business necessity, and it's as critical to strategic planning for business as a whole. But succession planning is not just about retirees.
00:01:07:17 - 00:01:36:22 Unknown And it's not just for CEOs in leadership. It's also a part of employee development. So it's a really great topic of discussion for us today. And I'm 30 minutes Right podcast. And a lot of you a lot of our listeners have actually requested this topic. So we will finally get into it and we're excited. And I'm here with Dana Vogelmeier, MRA senior instructional designer who's worked with our members to help develop and implement succession planning programs.
00:01:36:24 - 00:02:00:07 Unknown So, Dana, I'm super excited to have you on today and thanks for coming coming on the podcast as the expert and really covering how to create that successful succession planning. Thank you so being happy to be here. So, well, let's just start out by defining what business succession planning really is and why it's essential for business owners. Okay, sure.
00:02:00:09 - 00:02:22:21 Unknown So succession planning, as you mentioned earlier, it is it's critical and it is something that sometimes gets kind of pushed to the background because it feels like it's not important work. But if you think about the sustainability for an organization, it is really one of those critical things we should do. And succession planning is it's a process of talent identification.
00:02:22:23 - 00:02:52:02 Unknown So we dedicate time to looking at all of the people in our organization and who has what kinds of skills, what kind of potential or performance do they have, what do they need, and then get them what they need. We'll talk about that too. But it's really just first about identifying what that what the talent is in the organization, what it is not is a process to go through for determining who you're going to hire for a role.
00:02:52:02 - 00:03:20:12 Unknown That's that's different. This is about putting documentation together and determining what kind of talent and skills you have in the organization and then what people need and then getting them the development that they need. Absolute
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minuteThrive, your go to podcast for anything
and everything HR, powered by MRA,the Management Association.
looking to stay on top of the everchanging world of HR?
MRA has got you covered.
We'll be the first to tell you what's hotand what's not.
I'm your host, Sophie Boler,and we are so glad you're here.
(00:21):
Now it's time to thrive.
Well, hello everybody, and welcometo this episode of 30 Minute THRIVE.
So today we're going to be talking aboutsuccession
planning,and I found this stat a bit shocking.
So every day in the US, 10,000people turn 65.
And to add to that stat,the average retirement age in
the United States is 61,according to a 2022 Gallup survey.
(00:45):
So those are all prettysignificant numbers in the world of work.
So the impact is huge.
Today, like I said, it only makes sensenow that we're here to talk about
succession planning.
So successionplanning is a business necessity,
and it's as critical to strategicplanning for business as a whole.
But successionplanning is not just about retirees.
(01:07):
And it's not just for CEOs in leadership.
It's also a part of employee development.
So it's a really great topic of discussionfor us today.
And I'm 30 minutes Right podcast.
And a lot of you a lot of our listenershave actually requested this topic.
So we will finally get into itand we're excited.
And I'm here with Dana Vogelmeier,MRA senior instructional designer
(01:31):
who's worked with our members
to help develop and implementsuccession planning programs.
So, Dana,I'm super excited to have you on today
and thanks for comingcoming on the podcast as the expert
and really covering how to create thatsuccessful succession planning.
Thank you so being happy to be here.
So, well, let's just start outby defining what business succession
(01:54):
planning really is and why it's essentialfor business owners.
Okay, sure.
So succession planning, as youmentioned earlier, it is it's critical
and it is something that sometimes getskind of pushed to the background
because it feels like it's not importantwork.
But if you think about
the sustainability for an
(02:15):
organization, it is really one of thosecritical things we should do.
And succession planning is it's a processof talent identification.
So we dedicate time to lookingat all of the people in our organization
and who has what kinds of skills,what kind of potential or performance
do they have, what do they need,and then get them what they need.
(02:37):
We'll talk about that too.
But it's really just first aboutidentifying what that what the talent is
in the organization,what it is not is a process
to go through for determiningwho you're going to hire for a role.
That's that's different.
This is about putting
documentation together and determiningwhat kind of talent and skills
(02:59):
you have in the organizationand then what people need
and then getting them the developmentthat they need.
Absolutely.
You highlighted
a lot of good points there,and I feel like something to emphasize is
to not put this planningon the back burner because I feel like
we've heard that a lotwith challenges on succession planning is,
I didn't think of it till nowor we're not ready.
(03:20):
So I'm glad today we can help
with those stepsand kind of that preplanning process.
So kind of the next step then,
what are some key componentsof a successful business succession plan?
Tongue twister.
Yeah, it is a tongue twister. Yeah.
So some of the kind of key componentsto think about are identifying
(03:42):
critical rolesthat you might have in the organization
where if for some reason there was a gapthere and someone had left,
the organizationlike that would really create a problem.
So what kinds of critical rolesdo you have?
What kind of niche roles do you have whereit's hard to find a good pool
of candidateswith that skill set might be super unique.
You know, you want to identify that.
(04:03):
You also want to, as one of these keycomponents, think about business
challenges that you eithercurrently have or are coming.
So an example might be
you currently
have this issue ofwe're in the middle of expanding.
Maybe we only do operationson the East Coast.
We're going to expand to the West Coastor only in the U.S.
(04:23):
We're going to go global,you know, like so that might be something
you're in the middle of,
but also looking out and that could bepart of your strategic planning process.
And you learned some information there.
So bring that informationin to your succession planning
and think about there's a new law
that's going into effectthat might impact your industry.
There could be a new competitorthat is entering the marketplace.
(04:47):
There could be some kind of restrictionsor maybe you experience
some supply chain issues or one of yourbig suppliers is going out of business.
You know, those business challengesthat are going to impact you,
how does that impact your successionplanning and some of the things?
Well, some of the things may not,but do you have people with that knowledge
about howthis is going to impact the organization?
(05:10):
So you're really kind of looking at
the the areas where you might have
some deficienciesin knowledge and skills, talent
and how how we can maybe make a planto start addressing that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And you talk about plan and process.
So follow up question tothat is what would a typical process
(05:32):
really look like?
Yeah, so this is a good question.
And what I will say about like the processto think about, I'm going to give you
a good example of a processthat I've used in the past,
but the first thing to think about in yourfor any company
and your own process iswhat makes sense for you.
And if you haven't done it at all before,you want to start small and just maybe
(05:54):
pilot with a role or a departmentand then kind of build off of that.
But one the process or approach
that I have used inthe past is called the climb up approach.
And it starts with
and within the processyou establish your meetings.
But the first meetings are the first linesupervisors meeting
(06:16):
and someone'sgoing to facilitate this conversation
and they're going to talk about
the high performing people on their teamsand the high performing
the high potentialsand the high performers on their teams.
And so who are those people?
And somewherewe want to have like a database.
So that we can document everything
so that information goes in there.
(06:37):
Then the next step is to havethe second line leaders meet.
They're going to talk about the first lineleaders and who is a high
potential, who's high performing,what people need, what do they do?
Well, unique skill sets,but they're also going to have knowledge
of the peoplethat were talked about in the first round,
because those might be people that fillbackfill roles of first line supervisors,
(06:59):
but also those second line leadersand every leader above that
need to have some knowledge of theseother folks that are in the database
and what kind of unique skills or talentsdo they bring.
Maybe they
worked for a competitor in the pastor maybe they worked for an organization
that was like competitor adjacent,
and theymight have a different perspective
(07:20):
that would be beneficial in a particularproject or something like that.
So everybody needs to be knowkind of what's in there,
especially with uniqueskills and experiences.
So your your second line leaders
may talk about first they see whatwho the first line leaders talked about
and then go up to the third lineor the executive team, depending on what
your particular structure looks likeand you do the same process over.
(07:41):
But it's beneficial that everyone now
have at that higher levellook and see in the database who has what.
So you go through yourthat's your climb up approach
and you have all of your meetingsnow you have your data
so you can work with that,
but also something to think about inthe process is your cadence of meetings
and if you always have themin certain months.
(08:05):
So people just know, asI need to be ready for that, like it's
January and June or whatever, likedo I need to be ready for that
or do I need to be?
And so I get my planningdone and then thinking about
the accountability
piece and how you're going to
how you as the executive leadershipor whoever is kind of owning
(08:26):
the processoftentimes is down through h.r.
But how is that accountability
going to happen
and explaining
exactlythe process of what needs to happen there.
But you know, one thingthat i will just ask people to think about
is if you're in a leadership role
(08:47):
and you have this accountabilityor this succession planning meeting
and you're supposed to do the workand you come to the meeting and say,
so busy, my department,you know, this or that,
but your people are missing out then.
And how would you imagine those employees
of that person who didn't do the work?
And now no one knowsthat they have a unique set of skills,
(09:10):
that they have an interestin going to another area or any of that.
And so they may miss out.
And as a leader,
you would never want your peopleto miss out on a future opportunity,
especiallyif they were the best candidate.
So you have to do the workand have all of that information
stored somewhereso that we have the knowledge.
You know, it's like, garbagein, garbage out kind of thing.
(09:31):
We had good data in there,so we can work from that.
But you definitely want to dedicate timeto doing the work.
Yeah,and I feel like what you just described
there is probably a common challengefor many organizations
and just getting started inthe accountability piece, that invention.
So it's a perfect weekend or next questionof what are some other common challenges
(09:53):
that business owners facewhen it comes to the succession planning?
Yeah, that's a great pointbecause time is for sure one of the
I would say one of the biggest issues
is just getting startedand kind of knowing where to start.
And you have to just figure it,figure it out along the way
if you've never done it,
or if you don't have somebody whohas done it somewhere helping you, but,
(10:14):
you know, start smalland then you can build on that.
But getting startedis one of the biggest challenges.
And then the second thingis ensuring accountability
and dedicating it at the timeand working the plan
because it doesn't stopafter you've had the meeting.
Now you have
all that data from each of those meetings.
You still have work to do after that.
(10:35):
So it's working the plan.
So Dana,
you mentioned that a common challengeis really just starting the whole process.
So where would you saya good place to start is?
Yeah,
and it could be like many things both feel
kind of daunting sometimes,especially if you've never done it before.
And it's like, where do we even begin?
And and I would sayget the right people in the room
(10:57):
to have some discussion aroundwhy are we going through this?
What's drivingthe need for doing succession planning?
And it really is about preparednessand kind of being ready
when something changes, getting readyso you're not caught off guard when now
all of a sudden,we have to hire three new leaders.
And who would they be?
You might have some great people in there,
(11:18):
but you can use the time to get peopledeveloped.
So, you know, why are we doing this?
What is itthat we hope to get out of this?
You know, answering that questionnow, everybody's on the same page.
You've got some foundation set,then you can start looking.
And I'm going to just saythere's a metaphorical board here,
you know, in the air.
(11:38):
But put on the board and a
like an employeejourney map or a leader journey map,
and it might look something like picturesort of a road map.
How do we get from here to there?
So for an employee, there may be a number
of different career paths that they take.
And I'll just use an examplefrom one of my old experiences
(12:00):
in an organizationI worked for in the past.
I was in leadership in a call center.
We had customer service repsand they might become a coach,
which is not a leadership role,but it's kind of a step up.
They might become a trainer again,not a leadership role, but it's a step up.
But they alsothen might go to first line supervisor
and it could go those three things,but it could go right from customer
(12:22):
service representative to supervisor,depending on the individual.
No, there's never likeit has to be this kind of path.
I'll take that back.
I won't say never,
but in in generally speaking,people might take different paths
to get where they're going.
So you have this employee journeyand in that journey map,
(12:44):
you know what might be some skillsthat they like as a trainer,
they're going to get great presentsand skills experience,
thinking on your feet,but also some planning for the class
and things like that.
And as a coach,they're going to get some experience
coaching other employees,which is essential for leaders.
So you could get some developmentalong the way.
(13:05):
Then when you think about the leader map
in in my old experience, I'm going to useanother example for later maps.
We did things like you might havea first line supervisor
who's only ever workedkind of in this area
and we want to get them some experiencein another part of the organization.
They might lateral overinto an analyst role
(13:27):
and so they're not supervising people now,but they're learning some of
the business problems and they're workingon cross-functional teams.
So they're getting a whole new
set of experiences that help themlearn more about the company.
And especiallyif you're in a large organization,
it can give themsome different experiences.
Then they might go to a secondline manager
(13:47):
or they might go to a manager of analystor something different.
But you could also go from first line
supervisor to second line manageror something like that.
But you just need to think aboutwhat are the needs
and who has a unique set of skillsand an interest in a particular role.
So kind of figuring all of that outand you can start with your why statement,
then go to your journey mapsand that will help you once you do those
(14:11):
individual development plans ultimately.
So we've done the
why now, we've done our journey mapsand we've had some discussion.
Then we had our meetings andwe built all that data in our database.
You can see what people need individually,but as a leader now,
it's my responsibilityfor my people to get them what they need.
So so
(14:31):
there's kind of that leg, if you will,but then you'll have
people in the database who have common
learning needs, development needs.
So for example,maybe they've never done any type
of coaching or performance managementor employment law.
So if there's 20 people in the databasethat need that now,
(14:53):
you can send people into a comment classand that could be something
like RPA classesor it could be something you do on site.
There also might be some some kind ofreally easy things to get off the ground.
If you give everybodya link to a TED talk and say,
watch content between now and 30 days,we're going to have a meeting
and we're gonna talk about it.
That's great development for peopleto come to the meeting and hear
(15:14):
what other people's perspectives were
and share their perspectives.
So get some experience with all of thatand collaborating on a project.
Or it could be any number of thingsthat you could do
that could be quick hits withinjust within the company.
You could do like a book club.
But then there are other thingsthat might be bigger, like a plex
or a roundtable or going to a classon a law or something like that.
(15:38):
But, you know, use that data to help you
make your plans and do your
the execution of the plan.
No, absolutely.
Those are great examples.I'm glad that you brought those up.
And I loved hearing about your successin your past roles, too,
and kind of just sharing your real life,your real life stories.
(15:58):
So we talked about gaining new skillsand some of that includes
technology skills too.
So I guess my question here ishow do you use data
then specifically to assist in successionplanning in appraisals?
Yeah.
So I'm assuming that everybody, you know,the new hires
are going in and putting their informationinto whatever your h.r.
(16:21):
Software is about.
However that process looks,that could be just through h.r.
Maybe putting that informationin, but again, garbage in, garbage out.
So the data has to be in there,but there are usually your h.r.
System has an element of,like, ways to search
so you could search for, like, degrees
(16:42):
in accounting,or you could search for people
who have a certain certificationor speak multiple languages.
You could also use that information
in your database to search forwhat's the age range
as you kind of opened up with 10,000people are retiring every day.
So what is that age range?
(17:03):
How many people are in that groupand in what roles?
And is it that one critical role
or there's only one personwith that institutional knowledge
and you don't want to askpeople like, Hey,
I'm turning 65 or whatever,You don't want to ask that.
You're just looking at the dataand taking that
to your meeting and saying,This is what the data is telling us.
This is these are things that could happenand we should be prepared
(17:25):
for these things.
So use the reports and the informationthat you already have in there.
If it's possible
you might want to
automate with some successionplanning software.
There are some great programs out therethat make it so easy,
very intuitive, user friendly programs.
So again, you can put the information inand it can you can even set alerts
(17:46):
and it will tell youlike date of the meeting is next month
and you need to be prepared to talk aboutyour team members, that kind of thing.
But you can also kind of move people from
ready now, or maybe they're ready
with development in the next 12 months
or maybe ready with development
1 to 3 years or something like that,
(18:07):
so you can set it up and whatever
makes sense in your organization.
But then, you know, educatingeverybody on what
what all those thingsmean, ready now what does that mean?
So if there's an opening and your nameson the list, she's ready now.
So we've got 35 people who are readynow for this first line supervisor job
(18:28):
and great placeto be if you've got a big pool like that.
So you can use that data to kind of ageyou and in this process.
Yeah, I'm glad that you brought up
automation and automating the processa little bit more
because I'm sure a few peopleare a little overwhelmed
with the whole successionplanning process.
(18:49):
So at least now that there are tools
to help you with the process,that's another one.
Yeah.
So we talked about in the beginningthat planning
isn't just for CEOsand leadership for retirees.
So are there specific rolesto priority prioritize
(19:12):
or are there high risk rolesthat need more attention than other roles?
Yes, and I would say
think about three in particular.
So one is if you have a particular role
where only one person does it,and especially if one person
has done it for years and they haveall that institutional knowledge
(19:33):
and you don't want to lose that
and it's easy to just, you know, so
and so it's always doneand they've always been there,
but at some pointthey're not going to be there.
So what are what are the plans in place
so that you don't have an issuewhen that person does leave?
So you're planning for.
That's why succession
planning is so essential for organizationsYou want to be prepared
(19:54):
for when these things happenthat you're not caught off guard going,
my gosh, what are we going to do now?
And somebody could hit the lottery, right?
And they're gone.
So so that's the first one.
And then the second one to think about isany of those niche roles, unique skills.
There's not a big candidatepool. It's hard to hire.
Think about like what are the competitorsdoing, What are they paying?
(20:18):
Are they doing anything like signingbonuses or some things to attract people?
And are those thingsthat you need to consider?
Maybe you've never done it in the past,but things have changed
and it might bethat now you need to change
to accommodate that pool.
So that you can attract the best talent.
And then the third thing to think aboutreally are your growth plans.
(20:41):
So if you are going to expand,
I mentioned going global or something
like what are what are the needs there?
If you're even just from a growthperspective, maybe it's not even going
global or anything like that,but you're one of your strategic goals
might be we're going to increase salesby 20%.
(21:02):
Well, as everything increases.
So do oftentimes the number of employees.
So you might need to hiremultiple leaders next year.
Do you have anyone in the pipelinethat's going to be a good leader
in the meantime, if you know that'sgoing to happen, if that's the plan?
In the meantime,can you work on getting people prepared
(21:22):
so you have all that great informationfrom your meetings in the database
and you see who might be the nextfirst line leaders, particularly
your people that have some potentialand have been performing.
So let's say there's 20 people in there.
You could take 20 peopleand send them through
some kind of a development classto get them prepared.
And then you have a good candidate pool
(21:45):
to choose from when you have that growththat you've been expecting.
So those are kind of the three areasthat I would, I would say to consider.
Yeah, absolutely.
We talked a lot on emerging leadershere on the podcast.
So again, that's a great group of peopleto kind of get
roped into this discussion to Absolutely.
And we've also mentioned kind of emphasizethe point that succession planning
(22:08):
is not for one specific type of roleor not for just leadership roles.
And with so many baby boomer boomers,many of them may be in leadership roles
leaving the workforce,there is a greater emphasis
on the younger generationneeding to fill in these leadership roles.
So let's talk for a little bit
about successionplanning for these younger generations.
(22:30):
Maybe they haven't been in the workforcevery long and they don't
really have a ton of experienceor the leadership skills.
So do you have any recommendationsfor developing this process?
A little earlier on?
Yeah, I
would say, you know, a couple of thingsto think about
when looking at sort of that,I'm going to use your phrase
(22:52):
about next generation of leaders,because consider, especially for people
who've been in the workforcefor a long time,
you know, about the evolutionof the workforce itself.
And currently there are
the workforce is really looking for
development and opportunitiesand not just, you know,
(23:14):
getting hired to work in this onejob forever, but it's the
the workforce, you know,the people that you hope to retain
that can see thatthey're you care about their development.
You the leader careabout their development
and that there is going to be futureopportunity, then that's
a little more attractive to thatthat part of the workforce.
(23:37):
The other thing about thatpart of the workforce, a lot of times
you have people who they want to know
their leader and they want their leaderto know them as a whole person.
There used to be an old adageback in the day that, you know,
check your bags, your baggage at the doorwhen you come to work.
It's work time.
But there really has been an evolutionin the workforce about the whole person.
(24:00):
You're leading the whole person andyou can't often as as a human, we can't.
There are certain thingswe just can't leave at home
and things that might be hindering ourability to focus or whatever it might be.
But, you know, that's attractiveto help retain some of the workforce.
So you're thinkingabout the next generation of employees.
What's next?
What is going to bethe next part of the evolution?
You may as an organization
(24:22):
have a diversity goaland you might want to focus on that.
You might also have new tech knowledgethat's going to be
coming into your work world,and you'll need people
who understand that technologyknow how to do whatever it is.
But youalso could be just like in a growth mode.
And so all of a suddennow you find it beneficial that you need
(24:45):
to have a project manager on staff
that could be partof your next generation.
Maybe we've never had that before,
but with all the changethat we're going through and,
you know, we're going to add this madnessand that it might be beneficial
to have somebody
with that kind of a skillset to manage projects as they go through.
So you just kind of have to think about
what are those skills,what are some changes coming?
(25:06):
There might be get lost, but you'relooking at your next generation of hires
and your next generation of leadersand what are they going to need
to. Again, it's all part of the process
going into leadership skills,digging in there a little bit more.
How do you exactly know what is neededor how do you help
(25:27):
develop those successful leadershipskills specifically?
Yeah, so a lot ofthat is really through observation,
you know, so for example,
if I am a leader and I have,you know, ten people on my team
and I've worked with them,I've got some experiences
and I can assess from my perspective.
So so my observations are going to play
(25:48):
a huge role in that,which back to what we said earlier about
if the leader isn't going to the meetingsand talking about so-and-so
skills and abilities,sometimes they missed out.
The other thing now can be throughlike cross-functional teams
or cross-functional projects committees.
So for example,if I am a sponsor of a new project
(26:13):
and I have people from ten differentdepartments that are on my project team,
so I can see that person's work product,if you will,
because they come to the meetings,are they prepared?
Do they meet their deadlines?
Do they work well with others?
Just all those things.
And then I can speak to that too.
So their first their manager can speakto their their performance.
(26:34):
I can speak to their performance.
So there are some other examples.
And in that too, I might have a differentperspective because I might say
they were great at these five thingsand you know, what they could benefit from
is learning more about this
other part of the organization,and that's a complement to their work.
And if they understoodmore of the ins and outs over there,
I think that it can help them understandkind of what levers to pull
(26:57):
or when things happen, howthat's going to impact another department,
just kind of seeing the organizationmore holistically
or that organizationmore as the system that it is.
And that can really help when it comes
to things like problem solving or crosstraining or anything like that.
You know, really a lot of that is, again,through observation.
But then, you know, you also think aboutwhat they need next and how do you kind of
(27:23):
meet those needs.
A lot of that is throughthe development plans and things.
Yeah, absolutely.
I feel like that's been a common
trend of what we've also talkedabout this year is that cross training
and the leadership developmentopportunities and all that great stuff
that you mentioned.
So I love those examples.
That was great advice.
But Dana, as we wrap up here,can you share any any real life
(27:47):
success stories or case studieseven of businesses
that have effectively navigatedthis succession planning process?
Yes, sure.
So I will share that.
There was a company that I worked withnot long ago
and they had a pretty good successionplanning process
already in place with their meetingsand their documentation.
(28:08):
And and it wasn't automated.
They were they were using an Excel sheet.It worked for them.
It was not a large organization.
So as they continue to grow,they might want to automate.
And that was one of the thingswe did talk about.
And but what they reallywanted to focus on were
accountability and
what kind of enhancementscould they do to their existing process.
(28:32):
So there were a couple of thingsthat we talked about, and one
was moving from meeting twicea year to for a while.
Let's make four times a year andthen people get it's it's closer, right?
So you've done it more times
and people are kind of more readyeach time because it's like,
that's three monthsnow. Not six months away.
So I've got to be ready.
(28:53):
And what have I done fromfrom this meeting to the next?
And that's a reflection of meas a leader on my performance.
Did I take time to dedicateto developing my people?
So kind of making those meetingsmore frequently
can really helpwith that accountability piece.
But then the other thingthat one of the things
that I had had experience with in the pastI recommended
(29:17):
was make one of the leaders
or the owner of a particular meeting.
So if it was my turn to be the leaderof the meeting, then I set the meeting.
I sent out the invites,
I pull up the database for doing itvirtually,
and I show it online and we haveand I facilitate the conversation.
That's a different level of ownership.
(29:38):
You know what?
If I know I'm going to beresponsible for the meeting,
I'm going to do all my prep workahead of time.
And it's just like anything else,like riding a bike, right?
The more you do it, the easier
it gets, the better you get at it,the more comfortable you are with it.
So if I have to have ownershipin a meeting, I'm going to work
a little harder to get preparedand I don't want to go in ill prepared.
(29:59):
But also it's a way to get moreused to it.
So you've got somebodythat can kind of run that meeting.
And then the other thing we did talk aboutwas potentially automating the process
and again, just making it easierfor the leaders to to do that work.
That's that's part of our work as leaders.
So the executive team, if they need to
(30:20):
approve
like the purchase of some kind of softwareto make this work easier
and better information,better data to work with,
that might be part of thisyour succession planning work too.
So that was a company that I workedwith before or one of our member companies
that I worked with, but in my own role
before I came to MRA in my past.
(30:42):
When our past lives,if you will, one element in our succession
planning process that I liked wasso you had accountability
to your leadership to do the work,to come in to the meetings prepared.
And if we were not prepared,
our leader was having a conversationwith us about not doing the work.
But the other thing is kind of like dualaccountability was
(31:04):
the expectation was after those meetingsand after the conversation and all,
I would go back and have a meetingwith the people on my team
that we talked about the high potentialsand the high performers,
and to have the conversation around hereis what you do really well.
And here are some thingswe think you could benefit from.
And so let's make that happen.
(31:25):
But that was an expectation.
So my leader would say,
have you had your accountability meetingswith your team yet?
So it's kind of coming fromboth directions and it's just another way
to kind of make the work happen.
But it is a little bit of muscle memory.
You know, again,
the more you do it, the easier it getsand you start having those conversations
and planning it and it just becomespart of the work after that
(31:46):
for sure.
Those are great examples too,and even some action steps
that listeners can take awayand start implementing right away too.
Yeah, it's very.
Dana, I want to thank youfor being on the podcast today
and thank you for sharing your expertiseand your success with succession planning.
Thank we yeah, and to our listeners,
(32:09):
if you like the chat and topic today,I know a lot of our members and listeners
request this topic, so I would urge youto comment something new that you learned
today or anything that you really liketo add on to this conversation.
We always want to hear from youand your what you're doing
specifically on this topic too.
Don't forget to share out this episodeand consider joining MRA
(32:30):
if you aren't member already.
We have all the resources you needin the show Notes below,
including a number of succession planningresources in the show notes below too.
So take a look at those.
We've also got Dana'sbio and LinkedIn profiles, so
if you'd like to connect with her, Dana,I hope that's okay.
You might be getting some good connectionslately, otherwise.
(32:53):
Thank you so much for tuning in, Dana.
I appreciate you being hereand we'll see you next week.
And that wraps up our contentfor this episode.
Be sure to reference the show noteswhere you can sign them to connect
for more podcast updates,
check out other MRA episodeson your favorite podcast platform.
And as always, make sure to follow MRA's30 minutes THRIVE
(33:13):
so you don't miss out.Thanks for tuning in
and we'll see you next Wednesdayto carry on the conversation.
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minuteThrive, your go to podcast for anything
and everything HR, powered by MRA,the Management Association.
looking to stay on top of the everchanging world of HR?
MRA has got you covered.
We'll be the first to tell you what's hotand what's not.
I'm your host, Sophie Boler,and we are so glad you're here.
(00:21):
Now it's time to thrive.
Well, hello everybody, and welcometo this episode of 30 Minute THRIVE.
So today we're going to be talking aboutsuccession
planning,and I found this stat a bit shocking.
So every day in the US, 10,000people turn 65.
And to add to that stat,the average retirement age in
the United States is 61,according to a 2022 Gallup survey.
(00:45):
So those are all prettysignificant numbers in the world of work.
So the impact is huge.
Today, like I said, it only makes sensenow that we're here to talk about
succession planning.
So successionplanning is a business necessity,
and it's as critical to strategicplanning for business as a whole.
But successionplanning is not just about retirees.
(01:07):
And it's not just for CEOs in leadership.
It's also a part of employee development.
So it's a really great topic of discussionfor us today.
And I'm 30 minutes Right podcast.
And a lot of you a lot of our listenershave actually requested this topic.
So we will finally get into itand we're excited.
And I'm here with Dana Vogelmeier,MRA senior instructional designer
(01:31):
who's worked with our members
to help develop and implementsuccession planning programs.
So, Dana,I'm super excited to have you on today
and thanks for comingcoming on the podcast as the expert
and really covering how to create thatsuccessful succession planning.
Thank you so being happy to be here.
So, well, let's just start outby defining what business succession
(01:54):
planning really is and why it's essentialfor business owners.
Okay, sure.
So succession planning, as youmentioned earlier, it is it's critical
and it is something that sometimes getskind of pushed to the background
because it feels like it's not importantwork.
But if you think about
the sustainability for an
(02:15):
organization, it is really one of thosecritical things we should do.
And succession planning is it's a processof talent identification.
So we dedicate time to lookingat all of the people in our organization
and who has what kinds of skills,what kind of potential or performance
do they have, what do they need,and then get them what they need.
(02:37):
We'll talk about that too.
But it's really just first aboutidentifying what that what the talent is
in the organization,what it is not is a process
to go through for determiningwho you're going to hire for a role.
That's that's different.
This is about putting
documentation together and determiningwhat kind of talent and skills
(02:59):
you have in the organizationand then what people need
and then getting them the developmentthat they need.
Absolutely.
You highlighted
a lot of good points there,and I feel like something to emphasize is
to not put this planningon the back burner because I feel like
we've heard that a lotwith challenges on succession planning is,
I didn't think of it till nowor we're not ready.
(03:20):
So I'm glad today we can help
with those stepsand kind of that preplanning process.
So kind of the next step then,
what are some key componentsof a successful business succession plan?
Tongue twister.
Yeah, it is a tongue twister. Yeah.
So some of the kind of key componentsto think about are identifying
(03:42):
critical rolesthat you might have in the organization
where if for some reason there was a gapthere and someone had left,
the organizationlike that would really create a problem.
So what kinds of critical rolesdo you have?
What kind of niche roles do you have whereit's hard to find a good pool
of candidateswith that skill set might be super unique.
You know, you want to identify that.
(04:03):
You also want to, as one of these keycomponents, think about business
challenges that you eithercurrently have or are coming.
So an example might be
you currently
have this issue ofwe're in the middle of expanding.
Maybe we only do operationson the East Coast.
We're going to expand to the West Coastor only in the U.S.
(04:23):
We're going to go global,you know, like so that might be something
you're in the middle of,
but also looking out and that could bepart of your strategic planning process.
And you learned some information there.
So bring that informationin to your succession planning
and think about there's a new law
that's going into effectthat might impact your industry.
There could be a new competitorthat is entering the marketplace.
(04:47):
There could be some kind of restrictionsor maybe you experience
some supply chain issues or one of yourbig suppliers is going out of business.
You know, those business challengesthat are going to impact you,
how does that impact your successionplanning and some of the things?
Well, some of the things may not,but do you have people with that knowledge
about howthis is going to impact the organization?
(05:10):
So you're really kind of looking at
the the areas where you might have
some deficienciesin knowledge and skills, talent
and how how we can maybe make a planto start addressing that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And you talk about plan and process.
So follow up question tothat is what would a typical process
(05:32):
really look like?
Yeah, so this is a good question.
And what I will say about like the processto think about, I'm going to give you
a good example of a processthat I've used in the past,
but the first thing to think about in yourfor any company
and your own process iswhat makes sense for you.
And if you haven't done it at all before,you want to start small and just maybe
(05:54):
pilot with a role or a departmentand then kind of build off of that.
But one the process or approach
that I have used inthe past is called the climb up approach.
And it starts with
and within the processyou establish your meetings.
But the first meetings are the first linesupervisors meeting
(06:16):
and someone'sgoing to facilitate this conversation
and they're going to talk about
the high performing people on their teamsand the high performing
the high potentialsand the high performers on their teams.
And so who are those people?
And somewherewe want to have like a database.
So that we can document everything
so that information goes in there.
(06:37):
Then the next step is to havethe second line leaders meet.
They're going to talk about the first lineleaders and who is a high
potential, who's high performing,what people need, what do they do?
Well, unique skill sets,but they're also going to have knowledge
of the peoplethat were talked about in the first round,
because those might be people that fillbackfill roles of first line supervisors,
(06:59):
but also those second line leadersand every leader above that
need to have some knowledge of theseother folks that are in the database
and what kind of unique skills or talentsdo they bring.
Maybe they
worked for a competitor in the pastor maybe they worked for an organization
that was like competitor adjacent,
and theymight have a different perspective
(07:20):
that would be beneficial in a particularproject or something like that.
So everybody needs to be knowkind of what's in there,
especially with uniqueskills and experiences.
So your your second line leaders
may talk about first they see whatwho the first line leaders talked about
and then go up to the third lineor the executive team, depending on what
your particular structure looks likeand you do the same process over.
(07:41):
But it's beneficial that everyone now
have at that higher levellook and see in the database who has what.
So you go through yourthat's your climb up approach
and you have all of your meetingsnow you have your data
so you can work with that,
but also something to think about inthe process is your cadence of meetings
and if you always have themin certain months.
(08:05):
So people just know, asI need to be ready for that, like it's
January and June or whatever, likedo I need to be ready for that
or do I need to be?
And so I get my planningdone and then thinking about
the accountability
piece and how you're going to
how you as the executive leadershipor whoever is kind of owning
(08:26):
the processoftentimes is down through h.r.
But how is that accountability
going to happen
and explaining
exactlythe process of what needs to happen there.
But you know, one thingthat i will just ask people to think about
is if you're in a leadership role
(08:47):
and you have this accountabilityor this succession planning meeting
and you're supposed to do the workand you come to the meeting and say,
so busy, my department,you know, this or that,
but your people are missing out then.
And how would you imagine those employees
of that person who didn't do the work?
And now no one knowsthat they have a unique set of skills,
(09:10):
that they have an interestin going to another area or any of that.
And so they may miss out.
And as a leader,
you would never want your peopleto miss out on a future opportunity,
especiallyif they were the best candidate.
So you have to do the workand have all of that information
stored somewhereso that we have the knowledge.
You know, it's like, garbagein, garbage out kind of thing.
(09:31):
We had good data in there,so we can work from that.
But you definitely want to dedicate timeto doing the work.
Yeah,and I feel like what you just described
there is probably a common challengefor many organizations
and just getting started inthe accountability piece, that invention.
So it's a perfect weekend or next questionof what are some other common challenges
(09:53):
that business owners facewhen it comes to the succession planning?
Yeah, that's a great pointbecause time is for sure one of the
I would say one of the biggest issues
is just getting startedand kind of knowing where to start.
And you have to just figure it,figure it out along the way
if you've never done it,
or if you don't have somebody whohas done it somewhere helping you, but,
(10:14):
you know, start smalland then you can build on that.
But getting startedis one of the biggest challenges.
And then the second thingis ensuring accountability
and dedicating it at the timeand working the plan
because it doesn't stopafter you've had the meeting.
Now you have
all that data from each of those meetings.
You still have work to do after that.
(10:35):
So it's working the plan.
So Dana,
you mentioned that a common challengeis really just starting the whole process.
So where would you saya good place to start is?
Yeah,
and it could be like many things both feel
kind of daunting sometimes,especially if you've never done it before.
And it's like, where do we even begin?
And and I would sayget the right people in the room
(10:57):
to have some discussion aroundwhy are we going through this?
What's drivingthe need for doing succession planning?
And it really is about preparednessand kind of being ready
when something changes, getting readyso you're not caught off guard when now
all of a sudden,we have to hire three new leaders.
And who would they be?
You might have some great people in there,
(11:18):
but you can use the time to get peopledeveloped.
So, you know, why are we doing this?
What is itthat we hope to get out of this?
You know, answering that questionnow, everybody's on the same page.
You've got some foundation set,then you can start looking.
And I'm going to just saythere's a metaphorical board here,
you know, in the air.
(11:38):
But put on the board and a
like an employeejourney map or a leader journey map,
and it might look something like picturesort of a road map.
How do we get from here to there?
So for an employee, there may be a number
of different career paths that they take.
And I'll just use an examplefrom one of my old experiences
(12:00):
in an organizationI worked for in the past.
I was in leadership in a call center.
We had customer service repsand they might become a coach,
which is not a leadership role,but it's kind of a step up.
They might become a trainer again,not a leadership role, but it's a step up.
But they alsothen might go to first line supervisor
and it could go those three things,but it could go right from customer
(12:22):
service representative to supervisor,depending on the individual.
No, there's never likeit has to be this kind of path.
I'll take that back.
I won't say never,
but in in generally speaking,people might take different paths
to get where they're going.
So you have this employee journeyand in that journey map,
(12:44):
you know what might be some skillsthat they like as a trainer,
they're going to get great presentsand skills experience,
thinking on your feet,but also some planning for the class
and things like that.
And as a coach,they're going to get some experience
coaching other employees,which is essential for leaders.
So you could get some developmentalong the way.
(13:05):
Then when you think about the leader map
in in my old experience, I'm going to useanother example for later maps.
We did things like you might havea first line supervisor
who's only ever workedkind of in this area
and we want to get them some experiencein another part of the organization.
They might lateral overinto an analyst role
(13:27):
and so they're not supervising people now,but they're learning some of
the business problems and they're workingon cross-functional teams.
So they're getting a whole new
set of experiences that help themlearn more about the company.
And especiallyif you're in a large organization,
it can give themsome different experiences.
Then they might go to a secondline manager
(13:47):
or they might go to a manager of analystor something different.
But you could also go from first line
supervisor to second line manageror something like that.
But you just need to think aboutwhat are the needs
and who has a unique set of skillsand an interest in a particular role.
So kind of figuring all of that outand you can start with your why statement,
then go to your journey mapsand that will help you once you do those
(14:11):
individual development plans ultimately.
So we've done the
why now, we've done our journey mapsand we've had some discussion.
Then we had our meetings andwe built all that data in our database.
You can see what people need individually,but as a leader now,
it's my responsibilityfor my people to get them what they need.
So so
(14:31):
there's kind of that leg, if you will,but then you'll have
people in the database who have common
learning needs, development needs.
So for example,maybe they've never done any type
of coaching or performance managementor employment law.
So if there's 20 people in the databasethat need that now,
(14:53):
you can send people into a comment classand that could be something
like RPA classesor it could be something you do on site.
There also might be some some kind ofreally easy things to get off the ground.
If you give everybodya link to a TED talk and say,
watch content between now and 30 days,we're going to have a meeting
and we're gonna talk about it.
That's great development for peopleto come to the meeting and hear
(15:14):
what other people's perspectives were
and share their perspectives.
So get some experience with all of thatand collaborating on a project.
Or it could be any number of thingsthat you could do
that could be quick hits withinjust within the company.
You could do like a book club.
But then there are other thingsthat might be bigger, like a plex
or a roundtable or going to a classon a law or something like that.
(15:38):
But, you know, use that data to help you
make your plans and do your
the execution of the plan.
No, absolutely.
Those are great examples.I'm glad that you brought those up.
And I loved hearing about your successin your past roles, too,
and kind of just sharing your real life,your real life stories.
(15:58):
So we talked about gaining new skillsand some of that includes
technology skills too.
So I guess my question here ishow do you use data
then specifically to assist in successionplanning in appraisals?
Yeah.
So I'm assuming that everybody, you know,the new hires
are going in and putting their informationinto whatever your h.r.
(16:21):
Software is about.
However that process looks,that could be just through h.r.
Maybe putting that informationin, but again, garbage in, garbage out.
So the data has to be in there,but there are usually your h.r.
System has an element of,like, ways to search
so you could search for, like, degrees
(16:42):
in accounting,or you could search for people
who have a certain certificationor speak multiple languages.
You could also use that information
in your database to search forwhat's the age range
as you kind of opened up with 10,000people are retiring every day.
So what is that age range?
(17:03):
How many people are in that groupand in what roles?
And is it that one critical role
or there's only one personwith that institutional knowledge
and you don't want to askpeople like, Hey,
I'm turning 65 or whatever,You don't want to ask that.
You're just looking at the dataand taking that
to your meeting and saying,This is what the data is telling us.
This is these are things that could happenand we should be prepared
(17:25):
for these things.
So use the reports and the informationthat you already have in there.
If it's possible
you might want to
automate with some successionplanning software.
There are some great programs out therethat make it so easy,
very intuitive, user friendly programs.
So again, you can put the information inand it can you can even set alerts
(17:46):
and it will tell youlike date of the meeting is next month
and you need to be prepared to talk aboutyour team members, that kind of thing.
But you can also kind of move people from
ready now, or maybe they're ready
with development in the next 12 months
or maybe ready with development
1 to 3 years or something like that,
(18:07):
so you can set it up and whatever
makes sense in your organization.
But then, you know, educatingeverybody on what
what all those thingsmean, ready now what does that mean?
So if there's an opening and your nameson the list, she's ready now.
So we've got 35 people who are readynow for this first line supervisor job
(18:28):
and great placeto be if you've got a big pool like that.
So you can use that data to kind of ageyou and in this process.
Yeah, I'm glad that you brought up
automation and automating the processa little bit more
because I'm sure a few peopleare a little overwhelmed
with the whole successionplanning process.
(18:49):
So at least now that there are tools
to help you with the process,that's another one.
Yeah.
So we talked about in the beginningthat planning
isn't just for CEOsand leadership for retirees.
So are there specific rolesto priority prioritize
(19:12):
or are there high risk rolesthat need more attention than other roles?
Yes, and I would say
think about three in particular.
So one is if you have a particular role
where only one person does it,and especially if one person
has done it for years and they haveall that institutional knowledge
(19:33):
and you don't want to lose that
and it's easy to just, you know, so
and so it's always doneand they've always been there,
but at some pointthey're not going to be there.
So what are what are the plans in place
so that you don't have an issuewhen that person does leave?
So you're planning for.
That's why succession
planning is so essential for organizationsYou want to be prepared
(19:54):
for when these things happenthat you're not caught off guard going,
my gosh, what are we going to do now?
And somebody could hit the lottery, right?
And they're gone.
So so that's the first one.
And then the second one to think about isany of those niche roles, unique skills.
There's not a big candidatepool. It's hard to hire.
Think about like what are the competitorsdoing, What are they paying?
(20:18):
Are they doing anything like signingbonuses or some things to attract people?
And are those thingsthat you need to consider?
Maybe you've never done it in the past,but things have changed
and it might bethat now you need to change
to accommodate that pool.
So that you can attract the best talent.
And then the third thing to think aboutreally are your growth plans.
(20:41):
So if you are going to expand,
I mentioned going global or something
like what are what are the needs there?
If you're even just from a growthperspective, maybe it's not even going
global or anything like that,but you're one of your strategic goals
might be we're going to increase salesby 20%.
(21:02):
Well, as everything increases.
So do oftentimes the number of employees.
So you might need to hiremultiple leaders next year.
Do you have anyone in the pipelinethat's going to be a good leader
in the meantime, if you know that'sgoing to happen, if that's the plan?
In the meantime,can you work on getting people prepared
(21:22):
so you have all that great informationfrom your meetings in the database
and you see who might be the nextfirst line leaders, particularly
your people that have some potentialand have been performing.
So let's say there's 20 people in there.
You could take 20 peopleand send them through
some kind of a development classto get them prepared.
And then you have a good candidate pool
(21:45):
to choose from when you have that growththat you've been expecting.
So those are kind of the three areasthat I would, I would say to consider.
Yeah, absolutely.
We talked a lot on emerging leadershere on the podcast.
So again, that's a great group of peopleto kind of get
roped into this discussion to Absolutely.
And we've also mentioned kind of emphasizethe point that succession planning
(22:08):
is not for one specific type of roleor not for just leadership roles.
And with so many baby boomer boomers,many of them may be in leadership roles
leaving the workforce,there is a greater emphasis
on the younger generationneeding to fill in these leadership roles.
So let's talk for a little bit
about successionplanning for these younger generations.
(22:30):
Maybe they haven't been in the workforcevery long and they don't
really have a ton of experienceor the leadership skills.
So do you have any recommendationsfor developing this process?
A little earlier on?
Yeah, I
would say, you know, a couple of thingsto think about
when looking at sort of that,I'm going to use your phrase
(22:52):
about next generation of leaders,because consider, especially for people
who've been in the workforcefor a long time,
you know, about the evolutionof the workforce itself.
And currently there are
the workforce is really looking for
development and opportunitiesand not just, you know,
(23:14):
getting hired to work in this onejob forever, but it's the
the workforce, you know,the people that you hope to retain
that can see thatthey're you care about their development.
You the leader careabout their development
and that there is going to be futureopportunity, then that's
a little more attractive to thatthat part of the workforce.
(23:37):
The other thing about thatpart of the workforce, a lot of times
you have people who they want to know
their leader and they want their leaderto know them as a whole person.
There used to be an old adageback in the day that, you know,
check your bags, your baggage at the doorwhen you come to work.
It's work time.
But there really has been an evolutionin the workforce about the whole person.
(24:00):
You're leading the whole person andyou can't often as as a human, we can't.
There are certain thingswe just can't leave at home
and things that might be hindering ourability to focus or whatever it might be.
But, you know, that's attractiveto help retain some of the workforce.
So you're thinkingabout the next generation of employees.
What's next?
What is going to bethe next part of the evolution?
You may as an organization
(24:22):
have a diversity goaland you might want to focus on that.
You might also have new tech knowledgethat's going to be
coming into your work world,and you'll need people
who understand that technologyknow how to do whatever it is.
But youalso could be just like in a growth mode.
And so all of a suddennow you find it beneficial that you need
(24:45):
to have a project manager on staff
that could be partof your next generation.
Maybe we've never had that before,
but with all the changethat we're going through and,
you know, we're going to add this madnessand that it might be beneficial
to have somebody
with that kind of a skillset to manage projects as they go through.
So you just kind of have to think about
what are those skills,what are some changes coming?
(25:06):
There might be get lost, but you'relooking at your next generation of hires
and your next generation of leadersand what are they going to need
to. Again, it's all part of the process
going into leadership skills,digging in there a little bit more.
How do you exactly know what is neededor how do you help
(25:27):
develop those successful leadershipskills specifically?
Yeah, so a lot ofthat is really through observation,
you know, so for example,
if I am a leader and I have,you know, ten people on my team
and I've worked with them,I've got some experiences
and I can assess from my perspective.
So so my observations are going to play
(25:48):
a huge role in that,which back to what we said earlier about
if the leader isn't going to the meetingsand talking about so-and-so
skills and abilities,sometimes they missed out.
The other thing now can be throughlike cross-functional teams
or cross-functional projects committees.
So for example,if I am a sponsor of a new project
(26:13):
and I have people from ten differentdepartments that are on my project team,
so I can see that person's work product,if you will,
because they come to the meetings,are they prepared?
Do they meet their deadlines?
Do they work well with others?
Just all those things.
And then I can speak to that too.
So their first their manager can speakto their their performance.
(26:34):
I can speak to their performance.
So there are some other examples.
And in that too, I might have a differentperspective because I might say
they were great at these five thingsand you know, what they could benefit from
is learning more about this
other part of the organization,and that's a complement to their work.
And if they understoodmore of the ins and outs over there,
I think that it can help them understandkind of what levers to pull
(26:57):
or when things happen, howthat's going to impact another department,
just kind of seeing the organizationmore holistically
or that organizationmore as the system that it is.
And that can really help when it comes
to things like problem solving or crosstraining or anything like that.
You know, really a lot of that is, again,through observation.
But then, you know, you also think aboutwhat they need next and how do you kind of
(27:23):
meet those needs.
A lot of that is throughthe development plans and things.
Yeah, absolutely.
I feel like that's been a common
trend of what we've also talkedabout this year is that cross training
and the leadership developmentopportunities and all that great stuff
that you mentioned.
So I love those examples.
That was great advice.
But Dana, as we wrap up here,can you share any any real life
(27:47):
success stories or case studieseven of businesses
that have effectively navigatedthis succession planning process?
Yes, sure.
So I will share that.
There was a company that I worked withnot long ago
and they had a pretty good successionplanning process
already in place with their meetingsand their documentation.
(28:08):
And and it wasn't automated.
They were they were using an Excel sheet.It worked for them.
It was not a large organization.
So as they continue to grow,they might want to automate.
And that was one of the thingswe did talk about.
And but what they reallywanted to focus on were
accountability and
what kind of enhancementscould they do to their existing process.
(28:32):
So there were a couple of thingsthat we talked about, and one
was moving from meeting twicea year to for a while.
Let's make four times a year andthen people get it's it's closer, right?
So you've done it more times
and people are kind of more readyeach time because it's like,
that's three monthsnow. Not six months away.
So I've got to be ready.
(28:53):
And what have I done fromfrom this meeting to the next?
And that's a reflection of meas a leader on my performance.
Did I take time to dedicateto developing my people?
So kind of making those meetingsmore frequently
can really helpwith that accountability piece.
But then the other thingthat one of the things
that I had had experience with in the pastI recommended
(29:17):
was make one of the leaders
or the owner of a particular meeting.
So if it was my turn to be the leaderof the meeting, then I set the meeting.
I sent out the invites,
I pull up the database for doing itvirtually,
and I show it online and we haveand I facilitate the conversation.
That's a different level of ownership.
(29:38):
You know what?
If I know I'm going to beresponsible for the meeting,
I'm going to do all my prep workahead of time.
And it's just like anything else,like riding a bike, right?
The more you do it, the easier
it gets, the better you get at it,the more comfortable you are with it.
So if I have to have ownershipin a meeting, I'm going to work
a little harder to get preparedand I don't want to go in ill prepared.
(29:59):
But also it's a way to get moreused to it.
So you've got somebodythat can kind of run that meeting.
And then the other thing we did talk aboutwas potentially automating the process
and again, just making it easierfor the leaders to to do that work.
That's that's part of our work as leaders.
So the executive team, if they need to
(30:20):
approve
like the purchase of some kind of softwareto make this work easier
and better information,better data to work with,
that might be part of thisyour succession planning work too.
So that was a company that I workedwith before or one of our member companies
that I worked with, but in my own role
before I came to MRA in my past.
(30:42):
When our past lives,if you will, one element in our succession
planning process that I liked wasso you had accountability
to your leadership to do the work,to come in to the meetings prepared.
And if we were not prepared,
our leader was having a conversationwith us about not doing the work.
But the other thing is kind of like dualaccountability was
(31:04):
the expectation was after those meetingsand after the conversation and all,
I would go back and have a meetingwith the people on my team
that we talked about the high potentialsand the high performers,
and to have the conversation around hereis what you do really well.
And here are some thingswe think you could benefit from.
And so let's make that happen.
(31:25):
But that was an expectation.
So my leader would say,
have you had your accountability meetingswith your team yet?
So it's kind of coming fromboth directions and it's just another way
to kind of make the work happen.
But it is a little bit of muscle memory.
You know, again,
the more you do it, the easier it getsand you start having those conversations
and planning it and it just becomespart of the work after that
(31:46):
for sure.
Those are great examples too,and even some action steps
that listeners can take awayand start implementing right away too.
Yeah, it's very.
Dana, I want to thank youfor being on the podcast today
and thank you for sharing your expertiseand your success with succession planning.
Thank we yeah, and to our listeners,
(32:09):
if you like the chat and topic today,I know a lot of our members and listeners
request this topic, so I would urge youto comment something new that you learned
today or anything that you really liketo add on to this conversation.
We always want to hear from youand your what you're doing
specifically on this topic too.
Don't forget to share out this episodeand consider joining MRA
(32:30):
if you aren't member already.
We have all the resources you needin the show Notes below,
including a number of succession planningresources in the show notes below too.
So take a look at those.
We've also got Dana'sbio and LinkedIn profiles, so
if you'd like to connect with her, Dana,I hope that's okay.
You might be getting some good connectionslately, otherwise.
(32:53):
Thank you so much for tuning in, Dana.
I appreciate you being hereand we'll see you next week.
And that wraps up our contentfor this episode.
Be sure to reference the show noteswhere you can sign them to connect
for more podcast updates,
check out other MRA episodeson your favorite podcast platform.
And as always, make sure to follow MRA's30 minutes THRIVE
(33:13):
so you don't miss out.Thanks for tuning in
and we'll see you next Wednesdayto carry on the conversation.
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