February 6, 2023 • 28 mins
How do you talk to your kids about their interests? For kids who become college students, that conversation often affects the major they choose first—a process that many worry abound in implications on rest of their lives. In the case of our guest, her major choice simply led to more interests, questions and opportunities to dive into new fields of research. Leilani Arthurs is a hydro-geo-chemist who studies volcanoes, water, educational access and so much more. Hear her story of what it looks like when someone simply follows her curiosity.
For more information on Arthurs’ research, visit her University of Colorado Boulder profile page.
Music by Nelson Walker.
Written and produced by Erika Randall and Tim Grassley.
Episodes recorded at Interplay Recording in Boulder, CO.
Official captions coming soon.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(birds chirping)
- I imagine Leilani Arthurs as a child
crawling over lava rocksbehind her childhood home
in Hawaii.
As she collects a myriad oftiny worlds and dances hula
beside the ocean,
which she'll do through college,
I imagine her eyes lightingup as she asked questions
(00:20):
of the waves and stonesand the shape of the earth.
Leilani's curiosity willpropel her across the world
and into a career inthe geological sciences
where she will seek to reshape the way
we go about field research,
so that it's available to everyone
who also looks at theearth and wants to ask.
(00:44):
I can't imagine Leilaniwithout a sense of wonder,
a self-described hydro geochemist,
Leilani's intercross
and transdisciplinarywork in the university
seem a boundless source of questions,
but Leilani doesn't keepher curiosity to herself.
As you will discover in today's episode,
so much of her research invites students,
fellow faculty, the public,
(01:04):
and now you are dear listeners,
into the world she discovers.
Leilani has found innovativeways to bring field work to us,
and she can't help butinvite us to come along.
(uplifting music)
On the Ampersand,
we call this bringingtogether of the impossible,
the alchemy of anding.
(01:25):
Together we'll hear stories ofhumans who imagine and create
by colliding their interests.
Rather than thinking ofand as a simple conjunction
in that conjunction junction kind of way,
we will hear stories ofpeople who see and as a verb,
a way to speak the beautiful
when you intentionally letthe soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
As St. Mary Oliver asks,
(01:46):
what is it you plan todo with your one wild
and precious life?
Oh, I love this question.
When I'm mothering,creating, and collaborating,
it reminds me to replace a singular idea
of what I think I should become
with a full sensoryverb about experiencing.
I'm Erica Randall,
and this is LeilaniArthurs on the Ampersand.
(02:08):
(uplifting music)
- As a high school student,
I had a lot of interests goinginto undergrad at Berkeley,
I honestly did not knowwhat I wanted to major in.
In fact,
I told my parents I wantedto work for two years
so that I could figure out
what was going on in the real world.
(02:29):
That's exactly what I said.
Figure out--- I love that you said that
and that you're gonnafigure out the real world
in two years.
- Yeah, figure out the realworld so I can go to college
and study something that Ican make a difference with.
And, there's somememories that we all have
that are permanently seared in our brains.
So, this conversation withmy parents was one of them,
(02:50):
because growing up I loved learning.
Anything I learned, I just loved,
there was really nothing Ididn't like to learn about,
just expanding my world,
but all of this was in thecontext of the classroom,
or my own romping around outdoors,
which I did a lot of.
- So, the world was aclassroom for you always.
(03:11):
- Mostly the classroom.
- Okay.
- Mostly interactions withpeople that I played with.
But, so when I went to college,
one of the things that I brought with me
was a love for language.
So, I'm not sure you know this,
but my family moved a bitwhen I was growing up.
So, my brother and I both learned
(03:32):
how to read and write inSpanish before we did English,
because we were pretty youngwhen we lived in Columbia.
So, I had...
I think I had a broaderworldview in terms of culture
that I didn't have a language for,
because it was just normal, you know?
- Yes.
- So, when I went to college,
I wanted to study all of these languages
so I could talk with peoplefrom all over the world.
(03:54):
But, it turned out that linguistics
was not quite what I imagined it would be.
Majoring in a single language
wasn't quite what I imagined it would be.
I didn't wanna studyJapanese, for example,
so that I would reach the level of reading
the equivalent of Japanese Shakespeare.
That's what majoringin a language involves.
I didn't want that.
So, I studied multiplelanguages to the extent
(04:16):
that I could be conversant.
Then, I studied linguistics first,
or in conjunction withMandarin and Japanese.
And, then I found out,
oh, man,
now I learned this language
that I can describe all languages with.
And, in the process of taking linguistics,
I also studied cognitive science.
(04:38):
Now, this is more of the connector
to what I do now in a sense,
the type of research I do.
So, with cognitive science,
I got really interestedin how people think,
how they express their thoughts,
how their thoughts express andshape the world around them.
- I love thinking thatyou loved thinking so much
that you had to study thinking.
(05:00):
That is so meta and beautiful that you...
That the learning of things led you
to the learning of learning of things.
- Yeah.
Yeah, I guess that's a reallynice way of putting it, Erica.
- Well, it just feels so real.
In your experience as an educator,
as a person of curiosity,
how can you convey these ideas
that get folks excited
(05:21):
to take care of the worldaround them, themselves,
their relationships?
- Yeah.
- Is that where that startedto build for you then
was as an undergrad?- Well, certainly.
Certainly.
And, the...
Just the theme of communication,
I think that runs throughnot just learning,
understanding the world around us,
but also trying to make adifference in other people's lives
(05:43):
and in the world around our lives.
And, so it's notsurprising that I ended up
not majoring in linguistics,
not majoring in cognitive science,
but I ended up majoring in a major
that took those courses anddoved it into the major.
And, that is the peaceand conflict studies
(06:03):
that you asked me about.
- Got it.
- In the process of the coursework
and projects that I did for
the conflict resolution emphasis,
I was introduced to the conceptof environmental justice.
I thought, wow,
now this is a real world thingI can wrap my brain around.
So, when I finished my major,
(06:25):
I thought, I really wannaknow more about science.
Like how is it that we can fix
some of these environmental issues?
Because, now I had studied itfrom the social perspective,
but I had all this curiosity about like,
how does it work?
How does water get contaminated?
How can we remediate the water?
Sure, I can see like what theepidemiological effects are
(06:47):
on communities
and the disparate burdens thatdifferent communities have
when it comes to environmental impacts.
But, I wanted to understand the science.
I hadn't studied any of that in my major.
- I love that that didn't scare you off.
Instead it said...
You said to yourself,I gotta know this now.
- Yes.
- And, it's so,
in the world of the Ampersanders,
(07:07):
this is the kind of spark thatI have seen and witnessed,
in all of the folks who'vebeen on this podcast
is people who don't just say, huh,
then turn on the televisionor go to their phones.
They say, huh, I wanna know about that.
And, then you lean into it.
And, that's a thing thatyou also look to inspire
in your students.
- Yes, I try to do that.
- Yeah,
(07:27):
I mean, it seems so clear,
the fact that you're trying to find ways,
especially to connect totoday's contemporary students,
I've got an 11 year oldwho would rather talk about
his skins in Fortnite,
and I'm like,
what are you talking about?
And, yesterday we pickedout a really cool skin,
and I have to say,
it's kind of an amazing thing
to be able to shapeshift,
but they're walking through worlds,
they're building worlds.
(07:48):
And, you've worked with atechnology that feels...
It's like Fortnite for planet saving.
Panos?
Is that, am I saying?
- So, the term pano is short for panorama.
So, it's a type of photoactually that you can take
using a 3D camera.
And, when you take apano with a 3D camera,
(08:10):
you can use software thatcan turn that 2D image
into a 3D visualization.
- Like a Harry Potter photo.
- Like a Harry Potter photo.
Sort of like that.- So, we're in a 3D
Harry Potter photo world.
And, you're using thistechnology in your class.
- Exactly.
And, so I started doingthis during the pandemic.
(08:33):
So, I teach a field course,
it's a introduction tofield geology course.
And, you probably remember in March, 2020,
we all went remote
and I was scheduled to teach
Introduction to FieldGeology in May-mester.
And, I was told if I wasn'tgonna be teaching it remotely,
(08:56):
I would have to cancel it.
And, the thing with intro to field
is that it's a required course.
So, there were students who were depending
on having that course taught in May-mester
in order to graduate.
- And, they...
Some of them probably already walked.
- It...
I don't know if some of them walked.
- But, it was immediate.
- Yes.- And, it was...
And this notion of the field
(09:17):
that it's so critical to be together
when we couldn't be together,
it's inspired you.
- Yeah, so it was because Iwanted to see my students,
our students,
I wanted to see ourdepartment students graduate
and not have the pandemickind of put that barrier up.
(09:38):
And, so I thought to myself,
I can't bring myselfto canceling the class.
I need to figure out a way toteach it remotely, you know?
- Yeah.
- And, as I thought of all the ways
that I have read aboutpeople teaching remotely,
I would never touch remoteteaching with a 10 foot pole
(09:58):
if it hadn't been for COVID.
There's...
- And, you learned so much from...
- I did.
- This experience.
- I did.
And, so when I thought about it,
I thought to myself,
the great thing about field geology
is that students go out into the field,
not only do they go out in the field,
they have a chance to explore,
because I'm not the type offield instructor that says,
(10:20):
okay, read about this site,
we're gonna go visit it,
and then you're gonna tell me
what you read about at this site.
That's not how I teach field geology.
Field geology is intended to help students
hone their observational skills,
hone their ability torecord what they observe,
develop their ability tointerpret their observations,
and so on and so forth,
(10:41):
so these are like higher...- So, I just have have to say,
you're teaching poets.
This keeps happening.
The scientists I talk to,
you're actually teaching poetry.
- I guess so.
- You all...
That's...
It's incredible.
It's the same skills,
these relationships todetail, to space, attention,
curiosity, translation,
(11:01):
or you used another word
that you're asking your students to do.
- To interpret--
- Interpret.
- Their interpret observations.
Yeah, yeah.
And, so,
I...
I can't imagine a way to do that
in traditional online instruction.
And, so one day
when very soon after wegot the announcement,
you have to cancel if you'renot gonna teach in person,
(11:25):
I was thinking, andthinking, and thinking,
and I thought, you know?
What if I could bring thefield to the students,
I obviously can't bringthe students to the field.
I can't pack them in a van,they can't be together.
We can't talk face to face.
But, what if I could give them that same
(11:47):
or similar experiencebecause I bring the field
to their computer
so that they can interact with it?
And, so once I latched onto that idea,
I thought to myself,
well, there are all these games,
3D games where peoplenavigate through space.
- Ah, you were thinking about games.
- Yeah.
Where people navigate through"virtual physical space".
(12:07):
So, I thought, can Ido something like that?
Has anybody already done that?
And, so I found that there were some,
I'm sure there's better language for it,
but cartoon geology environments
that you could navigate through,
and they had mock geological data
that people navigating throughthe space could dig up,
for example.
(12:28):
- Interesting.
- Yeah.
And, I thought, okay,
this is close to what I want,
but I want students tosee the real environment.
I want them to be out in the real nature
that they would have seen
if we were meeting in person.
What I wanted to do is create the 3D space
of the sites they would have gone to.
And, so once I figured that out,
(12:50):
I thought, well,
what kind of technologydo I need to do that?
And, how can I learn how to do it?
So, I started researchingall different types
of videography tools,
and then I came across the 360 camera
and I started reading about it.
And, then I did research ondifferent types of 360 cameras.
And, then I told Doug,
my husband, about it.
(13:11):
And, he said, oh,
well, Fisk Planetariumhas this 360 camera.
- I got one of those.
- Yeah.
He said, maybe you can borrow it.
I said, whoa, that would be great.
- Yep, you can move heaven and earth
to teach these kids,
the two of you.
That's incredible.
And, were cameras being usedlike this for accessibility,
I think about how to get folks to spaces
(13:33):
that maybe they couldn't arrive at,
like our conversation pre-showabout the Kalalau trail.
What would it feel liketo be on that trail?
- Yeah, exactly.
And, it's a great question that you have
about accessibility,
because, before the pandemic,
I know several differentcolleagues in geology departments
across the country
(13:53):
who had been playing with different ideas
to make field geology
and field trips in the contextof geology courses accessible
to, for example,
students who were in wheelchairs.
And, I never thought ofdoing something like that.
Mainly, because I don't...
I have never worked with students
who were physicallyconfined in that sense,
(14:14):
but I have always beenaware of the fact that
students have different physical ability.
So, whatever the site is,
I try to make it more accessible by foot.
But, even so, there's still a range.
And, as we were talkingabout before this show,
when it rains and trails are muddy,
things can get treacherous,
- A different story,
and folks can sleepdirectly in a sleeping bag
(14:36):
on the ground, like you,
or people need a bed like me.
So, there are like, this is...
I'm, looking at you Leilani thinking like,
I bet you could just roll upon any little narrow trail,
and just tuck in,
and just find your own little earth spot.
- Oh, I've gotta gottasend you a picture of me
literally rolled up intoa little hole in the rock.
- I could just see it justright tucked in there.
(14:59):
It's just...
It's so clear.
But, so this becameanother connection for you.
- Yeah.
So, the idea of havingput together this course
for students,
because of the pandemic,
it was done in such a way
that it could be used
to increase the accessibility of the field
(15:21):
to students beyond the pandemic.
And, so I thought to myself,
this is just an incredible...
People think of the pandemic
as like the worst thing that happened.
And, in many ways,
it has been very difficult.
But, I think there are silverlinings to the pandemic
in the sense that it'sput us in a position
(15:41):
that most of us wouldnever have been put into,
and to learn things wenever would've learned,
and to try things we never would've tried.
And, for me,
I would never have tried teaching remotely
if it hadn't been for the pandemic.
No doubt, no doubt about that.
And, I think because Iwas challenged to do it,
the product of that work is something
(16:04):
that can live beyond the pandemic
to help improve studentaccessibility to the field.
And, so I have already used that course
to teach one student independently
who couldn't do theactual in-person course
once the course went back to in-person
and was being taught by somebody else.
So, they asked me,
would you teach this person field geology?
(16:26):
Because, she can't do it.
- And, you had a tool for it.
- And, I had a tool for it.
Exactly.
- It's so beautiful, Leilani,
to hear again that in theface of that challenge,
how do you connect your curiosities?
I am...
I'm lit right now to howmany times I've heard you say
I thought, or I think,
I thought,
and then I thought about howI could get others to think,
(16:49):
and how this verb for you of thinking
is such an actioning space.
If this then this,
and it feels like that'sbeen a natural flow
your whole life.
Speaking of feeling,
what are you feeling into right now?
What are you digging?
Are there sites you'redesperate to get to?
Where do you wanna get dirty?
What is your questionright now in the field?
(17:10):
- Oh, my goodness.
There's so many things that I want to do.
So, one of them is I would, okay,
so let me backtrack.
- Okay, take me back.
- So, I'm kind of like at the point
where I'm trying to figure out
what I want to put intomy sabbatical proposal,
but I have so many ideas on the table,
I guess I could saywhere I would like to go,
(17:31):
but I would could alsosay what I want to do,
and I haven't figured out where to do it.
There's so many things.
So, for example,
one of the things that I would love to do
is to go and study inSouth America somewhere,
because I wanna be immersedin the Spanish language.
So, I like shopping at the Mexican bakery,
because we just speak Spanish there.
(17:52):
- I love it.
And, that brings you backto your early roots--
- And, it brings me back
to my early roots.- As a child.
- Exactly.
Part of me wants to go back to Iceland
and study the geysers there, you know?
- Yeah.
- 'Cause, it's just fascinating.
That's the intersectionof water and volcanoes.
Two things that I really love
and that I have been fortunate enough
(18:13):
to do research and study in some capacity.
So, geysers is sort of likethe intersection of those two.
And, I would love to go andjust learn something new.
You know?
What?
- I think it's our hypothesis.(crosstalk)
It's our science project.
That's what sabbatical fodder.
- That could be.
- Okay, I'm excited.
(18:34):
I'm feel...
I'm feeling that my next life phase
might be as a scientific researcher.
- And, we could go toNew Zealand to do it,
because that's a place thatI've been thinking about
going to do research.
I have two colleagues there
that do geoscience education research.
So, it's on my list of things to do
to reach out to them.- Let's write a grant.
And, there's...
And, we'll do like dancing, and science,
(18:55):
and we'll dig things.
It's gonna be so good.
- I love that.
- Okay, we're gonna do it.
I haven't been to New Zealand
since I danced in Australiayears and years ago.
And, I have the most fond memories.
It was probably the longest amount of time
I've ever spent alone,
and it was for me that momentto be with the landscape,
the ocean,
and then the landscapeand ocean of myself.
(19:18):
And, it was a...
I'm into it.
Okay, we're gonna look at our sabbaticals.
We're gonna see about aligning things.
- We can do Maori dance--
- Yes.
- And hula dance.
- Yes, and we'll--
- We can blend them.
- Do you dance hula?
Have you studied...
- Yes.
- Okay.
- I have studied hula.
- You have, amazing.
I can't wait.
I love thinking about,
is it when you were young
or as you went into--
(19:38):
- All the way up into college.
- All the way into college?
- Yep, so when I was at Berkeley,
I also danced hula there.
I was part of a groupthat danced for campus,
every year actually we performed.
- That's incredible, Leilani.
I didn't know that.
So, we're gonna add that to the and-ing.
So, this morning whenyou were in your kitchen,
thinking about yourself as an Ampersander,
it rang true.
(20:00):
- I think so.
- I think so.
I love it.
I wanna ask a time that and-ing,
all of this and-ing,
all this connectionhas maybe let you down.
I often think about texting and driving
as my no-go zone for and-ing.
But, do you have worlds in your life
where you wish you would only
when you are actuallyalmost always and-ing?
(20:22):
- Oh, geez.
So, I...
There are two ways that Icould answer this question.
One is,
as far back as high school,
I can remember telling myselfif I didn't care so much,
life would be easier.
And, that is like somethingthat I told myself
(20:44):
for a long time.
And...
- You held that as a truth truth.
- Yeah, I did.
If I...
If I didn't care so much,
life would be easier.
I...
And, in that context,
what I mean is I careabout so many things,
and that's why I make these connections,
or maybe it's because Imake these connections
that I care so much,
just like the chicken or the egg.
So, in that sense,
(21:05):
I think life would be easier,
but it would be so much less interesting.
And, I am so glad that I outgrew that
if only I didn't care so much
to just embrace the fact thatI do look for connections,
that I love those connections.
The other way that I couldanswer this question is yes,
(21:29):
there's definitely a discreet situation
that I would sayAmpersand-ing has let me down.
And, that is we are so fortunateright now to live in a time
where interdisciplinary,multidisciplinary,
and transdisciplinaryresearch are really valued,
(21:50):
Where there's a need for it.
People who can cross theborders of discipline
can bring new perspectives
that combine the attributesof multiple ones.
But, we are not yet in the time
where that type of inter, multi,
and transdisciplinary research
necessarily has a platformwhere it is recognized
(22:14):
for the value that it has
as this new sort of phoenix
that has risen from these otherdisciplines to be a new...
A new thing.
- Yes.
- This new synergistic being,
this new synergistic mode of knowing
and understanding the world
and informing solutionsto problems that we have.
(22:36):
And, that to me is where I feel like
the concept of Ampersand-inghas let me down.
And, just to give you aconcrete example of that,
the first paper that I had submitted
to an education journal,
mind you, I'm a geoscientist,
who does geoscience andgeoscience education research
in my life,
(22:56):
was rejected.
- Because, you were too Ampersand-y.
- Because, I was a geoscientist.
I was not in the school of education.
And, the feedback that I got was,
this goes in a geoscience journal.
Well, I will tell you,
no geoscience journal wouldpublish that kind of research.
- So, do you...
But, is it Ampersand-ing that let you down
or the world is not ready yet?
(23:18):
- Ah, good question.
- And, this is...- I think...
- This is part of what you're doing.
- Yes, yes.
So, I think, in the world that we live in
is not necessarily where it could be
in valuing Ampersand-ing.
- There we are.
Thank you Leilani.
I'm feeling that with you.
(23:39):
Okay, I think it's time.
This is for the quick and dirty.
You don't have have to be dirty,
but you have to be quick.
But, as a geologist,
I imagine you don't mind getting dirty.
So, I'm gonna ask you questions
and you're gonna answeras fast as possible.
And, you're gonna put andeither in the word like sand,
or sand and water,
(23:59):
connecting things,
okay, you ready?- Okay.
- Do you feel prepared?
- I'll try.
- Okay, good.
I can't wait.
This is my favorite part of the show,
'cause I...
Because, mostly we're laughing.
Alright, ready?
Your best or favorite and-ing vacation?
- Iceland, New Zealand.
Many more lands to come.
(24:20):
- Amazing, yes.
And, do you have to beworking to be on vacation,
or can you just be on vacation,
or is always working and?
Or, vacation and work?
- Working and vacation mostly,
because working is alsosynonymous with play.
I love what I do.
(24:40):
So, working and playoften go hand in hand.
I have time to read.
I can be braiding sweetgrass,
and I can read a journal article,
and still be very happy while on vacation
and near the ocean.
- Yes, that's my absolute perfect version.
Okay.
(25:00):
Preferred ice cream ordessert that has and in it.
- I have no favorite dessert or ice cream.
- Are you a savory?
So, you wanna go savory,
combo savory platter?
- Ah, I do prefer savory over sweet.
(25:20):
- Okay, so if you weregonna make a trail mix
for the Kalalau Trail,
what would be in your trail mix?
- Ah, raisins, peanuts,coconut, coconut flakes,
and...
I keep forgetting to put the and's.
- We see it. We see it.
- I'll do it.
Raisins, and peanuts, and coconut flakes,
and dried pineapple, and macadamias.
(25:44):
And, last but not least,
my favorite type of nut,
almonds.
- You're my favorite type of nut.
Okay, we're gonna...
I love that you know exactlywhat goes in your trail mix.
I knew we'd get there.
Alright, an and-er you admire?
(26:05):
- And, and-er, I admire.
There's so many people.
Maybe...
Benjamin Franklin.
- Then you need to see theplay that's happening in Denver
that's a re-imagination of Franklin.
Okay, I'll send you the...
I'll send you the email.
(26:26):
But, Benjamin Franklin,
what were some of hisfavorite and-ings for you?
- I think what he did in science
and what he did for politics,
defining our nation.
I just think that those aresome major and-ings that he did
that really helped to shape
(26:47):
not only his individual lifeand the people in his sphere,
but our nation.
- I love it.
I love the way that you see the learning
and how it expands you
and then these circles thatripple out into our communities
and into our worlds.
Alright, here on the Ampersand,
we always like to offera toast, or a blessing,
(27:07):
or some...
Something from our gueststhat would sound like,
and may there always besour cream for your nachos
or whatever it feels like the...
An offering.
Do you have an and...
That you'd like to send us out with today?
- And, life is short,
(27:28):
the time we have is a gift,
and let us use that time to gift ourselves
and each other to the best we can.
(uplifting music)
That was Leilani Arthurs,
associate professor of GeologicalSciences at CU Boulder.
If you'd like to know more
about Leilani's research,
especially her work onearth's science education,
(27:49):
we'll leave links in the show notes.
The Ampersand is written andproduced by me, Erica Randall,
and Tim Grassley.
If there are folks you'd liketo hear from on the Ampersand,
do please email us at asinfo@colorado.edu.
Our theme music was composed and performed
by Nelson Walker,
a CU Boulder alum,brilliant cellist composer,
(28:10):
and a fantastic dancer.
Episodes are recorded at Interplay Studios
in Boulder, Colorado.
I'm Erica Randall
and this is the Ampersand.
(uplifting music)
(birds chirping)
- I imagine Leilani Arthurs as a child
crawling over lava rocksbehind her childhood home
in Hawaii.
As she collects a myriad oftiny worlds and dances hula
beside the ocean,
which she'll do through college,
I imagine her eyes lightingup as she asked questions
(00:20):
of the waves and stonesand the shape of the earth.
Leilani's curiosity willpropel her across the world
and into a career inthe geological sciences
where she will seek to reshape the way
we go about field research,
so that it's available to everyone
who also looks at theearth and wants to ask.
(00:44):
I can't imagine Leilaniwithout a sense of wonder,
a self-described hydro geochemist,
Leilani's intercross
and transdisciplinarywork in the university
seem a boundless source of questions,
but Leilani doesn't keepher curiosity to herself.
As you will discover in today's episode,
so much of her research invites students,
fellow faculty, the public,
(01:04):
and now you are dear listeners,
into the world she discovers.
Leilani has found innovativeways to bring field work to us,
and she can't help butinvite us to come along.
(uplifting music)
On the Ampersand,
we call this bringingtogether of the impossible,
the alchemy of anding.
(01:25):
Together we'll hear stories ofhumans who imagine and create
by colliding their interests.
Rather than thinking ofand as a simple conjunction
in that conjunction junction kind of way,
we will hear stories ofpeople who see and as a verb,
a way to speak the beautiful
when you intentionally letthe soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
As St. Mary Oliver asks,
(01:46):
what is it you plan todo with your one wild
and precious life?
Oh, I love this question.
When I'm mothering,creating, and collaborating,
it reminds me to replace a singular idea
of what I think I should become
with a full sensoryverb about experiencing.
I'm Erica Randall,
and this is LeilaniArthurs on the Ampersand.
(02:08):
(uplifting music)
- As a high school student,
I had a lot of interests goinginto undergrad at Berkeley,
I honestly did not knowwhat I wanted to major in.
In fact,
I told my parents I wantedto work for two years
so that I could figure out
what was going on in the real world.
(02:29):
That's exactly what I said.
Figure out--- I love that you said that
and that you're gonnafigure out the real world
in two years.
- Yeah, figure out the realworld so I can go to college
and study something that Ican make a difference with.
And, there's somememories that we all have
that are permanently seared in our brains.
So, this conversation withmy parents was one of them,
(02:50):
because growing up I loved learning.
Anything I learned, I just loved,
there was really nothing Ididn't like to learn about,
just expanding my world,
but all of this was in thecontext of the classroom,
or my own romping around outdoors,
which I did a lot of.
- So, the world was aclassroom for you always.
(03:11):
- Mostly the classroom.
- Okay.
- Mostly interactions withpeople that I played with.
But, so when I went to college,
one of the things that I brought with me
was a love for language.
So, I'm not sure you know this,
but my family moved a bitwhen I was growing up.
So, my brother and I both learned
(03:32):
how to read and write inSpanish before we did English,
because we were pretty youngwhen we lived in Columbia.
So, I had...
I think I had a broaderworldview in terms of culture
that I didn't have a language for,
because it was just normal, you know?
- Yes.
- So, when I went to college,
I wanted to study all of these languages
so I could talk with peoplefrom all over the world.
(03:54):
But, it turned out that linguistics
was not quite what I imagined it would be.
Majoring in a single language
wasn't quite what I imagined it would be.
I didn't wanna studyJapanese, for example,
so that I would reach the level of reading
the equivalent of Japanese Shakespeare.
That's what majoringin a language involves.
I didn't want that.
So, I studied multiplelanguages to the extent
(04:16):
that I could be conversant.
Then, I studied linguistics first,
or in conjunction withMandarin and Japanese.
And, then I found out,
oh, man,
now I learned this language
that I can describe all languages with.
And, in the process of taking linguistics,
I also studied cognitive science.
(04:38):
Now, this is more of the connector
to what I do now in a sense,
the type of research I do.
So, with cognitive science,
I got really interestedin how people think,
how they express their thoughts,
how their thoughts express andshape the world around them.
- I love thinking thatyou loved thinking so much
that you had to study thinking.
(05:00):
That is so meta and beautiful that you...
That the learning of things led you
to the learning of learning of things.
- Yeah.
Yeah, I guess that's a reallynice way of putting it, Erica.
- Well, it just feels so real.
In your experience as an educator,
as a person of curiosity,
how can you convey these ideas
that get folks excited
(05:21):
to take care of the worldaround them, themselves,
their relationships?
- Yeah.
- Is that where that startedto build for you then
was as an undergrad?- Well, certainly.
Certainly.
And, the...
Just the theme of communication,
I think that runs throughnot just learning,
understanding the world around us,
but also trying to make adifference in other people's lives
(05:43):
and in the world around our lives.
And, so it's notsurprising that I ended up
not majoring in linguistics,
not majoring in cognitive science,
but I ended up majoring in a major
that took those courses anddoved it into the major.
And, that is the peaceand conflict studies
(06:03):
that you asked me about.
- Got it.
- In the process of the coursework
and projects that I did for
the conflict resolution emphasis,
I was introduced to the conceptof environmental justice.
I thought, wow,
now this is a real world thingI can wrap my brain around.
So, when I finished my major,
(06:25):
I thought, I really wannaknow more about science.
Like how is it that we can fix
some of these environmental issues?
Because, now I had studied itfrom the social perspective,
but I had all this curiosity about like,
how does it work?
How does water get contaminated?
How can we remediate the water?
Sure, I can see like what theepidemiological effects are
(06:47):
on communities
and the disparate burdens thatdifferent communities have
when it comes to environmental impacts.
But, I wanted to understand the science.
I hadn't studied any of that in my major.
- I love that that didn't scare you off.
Instead it said...
You said to yourself,I gotta know this now.
- Yes.
- And, it's so,
in the world of the Ampersanders,
(07:07):
this is the kind of spark thatI have seen and witnessed,
in all of the folks who'vebeen on this podcast
is people who don't just say, huh,
then turn on the televisionor go to their phones.
They say, huh, I wanna know about that.
And, then you lean into it.
And, that's a thing thatyou also look to inspire
in your students.
- Yes, I try to do that.
- Yeah,
(07:27):
I mean, it seems so clear,
the fact that you're trying to find ways,
especially to connect totoday's contemporary students,
I've got an 11 year oldwho would rather talk about
his skins in Fortnite,
and I'm like,
what are you talking about?
And, yesterday we pickedout a really cool skin,
and I have to say,
it's kind of an amazing thing
to be able to shapeshift,
but they're walking through worlds,
they're building worlds.
(07:48):
And, you've worked with atechnology that feels...
It's like Fortnite for planet saving.
Panos?
Is that, am I saying?
- So, the term pano is short for panorama.
So, it's a type of photoactually that you can take
using a 3D camera.
And, when you take apano with a 3D camera,
(08:10):
you can use software thatcan turn that 2D image
into a 3D visualization.
- Like a Harry Potter photo.
- Like a Harry Potter photo.
Sort of like that.- So, we're in a 3D
Harry Potter photo world.
And, you're using thistechnology in your class.
- Exactly.
And, so I started doingthis during the pandemic.
(08:33):
So, I teach a field course,
it's a introduction tofield geology course.
And, you probably remember in March, 2020,
we all went remote
and I was scheduled to teach
Introduction to FieldGeology in May-mester.
And, I was told if I wasn'tgonna be teaching it remotely,
(08:56):
I would have to cancel it.
And, the thing with intro to field
is that it's a required course.
So, there were students who were depending
on having that course taught in May-mester
in order to graduate.
- And, they...
Some of them probably already walked.
- It...
I don't know if some of them walked.
- But, it was immediate.
- Yes.- And, it was...
And this notion of the field
(09:17):
that it's so critical to be together
when we couldn't be together,
it's inspired you.
- Yeah, so it was because Iwanted to see my students,
our students,
I wanted to see ourdepartment students graduate
and not have the pandemickind of put that barrier up.
(09:38):
And, so I thought to myself,
I can't bring myselfto canceling the class.
I need to figure out a way toteach it remotely, you know?
- Yeah.
- And, as I thought of all the ways
that I have read aboutpeople teaching remotely,
I would never touch remoteteaching with a 10 foot pole
(09:58):
if it hadn't been for COVID.
There's...
- And, you learned so much from...
- I did.
- This experience.
- I did.
And, so when I thought about it,
I thought to myself,
the great thing about field geology
is that students go out into the field,
not only do they go out in the field,
they have a chance to explore,
because I'm not the type offield instructor that says,
(10:20):
okay, read about this site,
we're gonna go visit it,
and then you're gonna tell me
what you read about at this site.
That's not how I teach field geology.
Field geology is intended to help students
hone their observational skills,
hone their ability torecord what they observe,
develop their ability tointerpret their observations,
and so on and so forth,
(10:41):
so these are like higher...- So, I just have have to say,
you're teaching poets.
This keeps happening.
The scientists I talk to,
you're actually teaching poetry.
- I guess so.
- You all...
That's...
It's incredible.
It's the same skills,
these relationships todetail, to space, attention,
curiosity, translation,
(11:01):
or you used another word
that you're asking your students to do.
- To interpret--
- Interpret.
- Their interpret observations.
Yeah, yeah.
And, so,
I...
I can't imagine a way to do that
in traditional online instruction.
And, so one day
when very soon after wegot the announcement,
you have to cancel if you'renot gonna teach in person,
(11:25):
I was thinking, andthinking, and thinking,
and I thought, you know?
What if I could bring thefield to the students,
I obviously can't bringthe students to the field.
I can't pack them in a van,they can't be together.
We can't talk face to face.
But, what if I could give them that same
(11:47):
or similar experiencebecause I bring the field
to their computer
so that they can interact with it?
And, so once I latched onto that idea,
I thought to myself,
well, there are all these games,
3D games where peoplenavigate through space.
- Ah, you were thinking about games.
- Yeah.
Where people navigate through"virtual physical space".
(12:07):
So, I thought, can Ido something like that?
Has anybody already done that?
And, so I found that there were some,
I'm sure there's better language for it,
but cartoon geology environments
that you could navigate through,
and they had mock geological data
that people navigating throughthe space could dig up,
for example.
(12:28):
- Interesting.
- Yeah.
And, I thought, okay,
this is close to what I want,
but I want students tosee the real environment.
I want them to be out in the real nature
that they would have seen
if we were meeting in person.
What I wanted to do is create the 3D space
of the sites they would have gone to.
And, so once I figured that out,
(12:50):
I thought, well,
what kind of technologydo I need to do that?
And, how can I learn how to do it?
So, I started researchingall different types
of videography tools,
and then I came across the 360 camera
and I started reading about it.
And, then I did research ondifferent types of 360 cameras.
And, then I told Doug,
my husband, about it.
(13:11):
And, he said, oh,
well, Fisk Planetariumhas this 360 camera.
- I got one of those.
- Yeah.
He said, maybe you can borrow it.
I said, whoa, that would be great.
- Yep, you can move heaven and earth
to teach these kids,
the two of you.
That's incredible.
And, were cameras being usedlike this for accessibility,
I think about how to get folks to spaces
(13:33):
that maybe they couldn't arrive at,
like our conversation pre-showabout the Kalalau trail.
What would it feel liketo be on that trail?
- Yeah, exactly.
And, it's a great question that you have
about accessibility,
because, before the pandemic,
I know several differentcolleagues in geology departments
across the country
(13:53):
who had been playing with different ideas
to make field geology
and field trips in the contextof geology courses accessible
to, for example,
students who were in wheelchairs.
And, I never thought ofdoing something like that.
Mainly, because I don't...
I have never worked with students
who were physicallyconfined in that sense,
(14:14):
but I have always beenaware of the fact that
students have different physical ability.
So, whatever the site is,
I try to make it more accessible by foot.
But, even so, there's still a range.
And, as we were talkingabout before this show,
when it rains and trails are muddy,
things can get treacherous,
- A different story,
and folks can sleepdirectly in a sleeping bag
(14:36):
on the ground, like you,
or people need a bed like me.
So, there are like, this is...
I'm, looking at you Leilani thinking like,
I bet you could just roll upon any little narrow trail,
and just tuck in,
and just find your own little earth spot.
- Oh, I've gotta gottasend you a picture of me
literally rolled up intoa little hole in the rock.
- I could just see it justright tucked in there.
(14:59):
It's just...
It's so clear.
But, so this becameanother connection for you.
- Yeah.
So, the idea of havingput together this course
for students,
because of the pandemic,
it was done in such a way
that it could be used
to increase the accessibility of the field
(15:21):
to students beyond the pandemic.
And, so I thought to myself,
this is just an incredible...
People think of the pandemic
as like the worst thing that happened.
And, in many ways,
it has been very difficult.
But, I think there are silverlinings to the pandemic
in the sense that it'sput us in a position
(15:41):
that most of us wouldnever have been put into,
and to learn things wenever would've learned,
and to try things we never would've tried.
And, for me,
I would never have tried teaching remotely
if it hadn't been for the pandemic.
No doubt, no doubt about that.
And, I think because Iwas challenged to do it,
the product of that work is something
(16:04):
that can live beyond the pandemic
to help improve studentaccessibility to the field.
And, so I have already used that course
to teach one student independently
who couldn't do theactual in-person course
once the course went back to in-person
and was being taught by somebody else.
So, they asked me,
would you teach this person field geology?
(16:26):
Because, she can't do it.
- And, you had a tool for it.
- And, I had a tool for it.
Exactly.
- It's so beautiful, Leilani,
to hear again that in theface of that challenge,
how do you connect your curiosities?
I am...
I'm lit right now to howmany times I've heard you say
I thought, or I think,
I thought,
and then I thought about howI could get others to think,
(16:49):
and how this verb for you of thinking
is such an actioning space.
If this then this,
and it feels like that'sbeen a natural flow
your whole life.
Speaking of feeling,
what are you feeling into right now?
What are you digging?
Are there sites you'redesperate to get to?
Where do you wanna get dirty?
What is your questionright now in the field?
(17:10):
- Oh, my goodness.
There's so many things that I want to do.
So, one of them is I would, okay,
so let me backtrack.
- Okay, take me back.
- So, I'm kind of like at the point
where I'm trying to figure out
what I want to put intomy sabbatical proposal,
but I have so many ideas on the table,
I guess I could saywhere I would like to go,
(17:31):
but I would could alsosay what I want to do,
and I haven't figured out where to do it.
There's so many things.
So, for example,
one of the things that I would love to do
is to go and study inSouth America somewhere,
because I wanna be immersedin the Spanish language.
So, I like shopping at the Mexican bakery,
because we just speak Spanish there.
(17:52):
- I love it.
And, that brings you backto your early roots--
- And, it brings me back
to my early roots.- As a child.
- Exactly.
Part of me wants to go back to Iceland
and study the geysers there, you know?
- Yeah.
- 'Cause, it's just fascinating.
That's the intersectionof water and volcanoes.
Two things that I really love
and that I have been fortunate enough
(18:13):
to do research and study in some capacity.
So, geysers is sort of likethe intersection of those two.
And, I would love to go andjust learn something new.
You know?
What?
- I think it's our hypothesis.(crosstalk)
It's our science project.
That's what sabbatical fodder.
- That could be.
- Okay, I'm excited.
(18:34):
I'm feel...
I'm feeling that my next life phase
might be as a scientific researcher.
- And, we could go toNew Zealand to do it,
because that's a place thatI've been thinking about
going to do research.
I have two colleagues there
that do geoscience education research.
So, it's on my list of things to do
to reach out to them.- Let's write a grant.
And, there's...
And, we'll do like dancing, and science,
(18:55):
and we'll dig things.
It's gonna be so good.
- I love that.
- Okay, we're gonna do it.
I haven't been to New Zealand
since I danced in Australiayears and years ago.
And, I have the most fond memories.
It was probably the longest amount of time
I've ever spent alone,
and it was for me that momentto be with the landscape,
the ocean,
and then the landscapeand ocean of myself.
(19:18):
And, it was a...
I'm into it.
Okay, we're gonna look at our sabbaticals.
We're gonna see about aligning things.
- We can do Maori dance--
- Yes.
- And hula dance.
- Yes, and we'll--
- We can blend them.
- Do you dance hula?
Have you studied...
- Yes.
- Okay.
- I have studied hula.
- You have, amazing.
I can't wait.
I love thinking about,
is it when you were young
or as you went into--
(19:38):
- All the way up into college.
- All the way into college?
- Yep, so when I was at Berkeley,
I also danced hula there.
I was part of a groupthat danced for campus,
every year actually we performed.
- That's incredible, Leilani.
I didn't know that.
So, we're gonna add that to the and-ing.
So, this morning whenyou were in your kitchen,
thinking about yourself as an Ampersander,
it rang true.
(20:00):
- I think so.
- I think so.
I love it.
I wanna ask a time that and-ing,
all of this and-ing,
all this connectionhas maybe let you down.
I often think about texting and driving
as my no-go zone for and-ing.
But, do you have worlds in your life
where you wish you would only
when you are actuallyalmost always and-ing?
(20:22):
- Oh, geez.
So, I...
There are two ways that Icould answer this question.
One is,
as far back as high school,
I can remember telling myselfif I didn't care so much,
life would be easier.
And, that is like somethingthat I told myself
(20:44):
for a long time.
And...
- You held that as a truth truth.
- Yeah, I did.
If I...
If I didn't care so much,
life would be easier.
I...
And, in that context,
what I mean is I careabout so many things,
and that's why I make these connections,
or maybe it's because Imake these connections
that I care so much,
just like the chicken or the egg.
So, in that sense,
(21:05):
I think life would be easier,
but it would be so much less interesting.
And, I am so glad that I outgrew that
if only I didn't care so much
to just embrace the fact thatI do look for connections,
that I love those connections.
The other way that I couldanswer this question is yes,
(21:29):
there's definitely a discreet situation
that I would sayAmpersand-ing has let me down.
And, that is we are so fortunateright now to live in a time
where interdisciplinary,multidisciplinary,
and transdisciplinaryresearch are really valued,
(21:50):
Where there's a need for it.
People who can cross theborders of discipline
can bring new perspectives
that combine the attributesof multiple ones.
But, we are not yet in the time
where that type of inter, multi,
and transdisciplinary research
necessarily has a platformwhere it is recognized
(22:14):
for the value that it has
as this new sort of phoenix
that has risen from these otherdisciplines to be a new...
A new thing.
- Yes.
- This new synergistic being,
this new synergistic mode of knowing
and understanding the world
and informing solutionsto problems that we have.
(22:36):
And, that to me is where I feel like
the concept of Ampersand-inghas let me down.
And, just to give you aconcrete example of that,
the first paper that I had submitted
to an education journal,
mind you, I'm a geoscientist,
who does geoscience andgeoscience education research
in my life,
(22:56):
was rejected.
- Because, you were too Ampersand-y.
- Because, I was a geoscientist.
I was not in the school of education.
And, the feedback that I got was,
this goes in a geoscience journal.
Well, I will tell you,
no geoscience journal wouldpublish that kind of research.
- So, do you...
But, is it Ampersand-ing that let you down
or the world is not ready yet?
(23:18):
- Ah, good question.
- And, this is...- I think...
- This is part of what you're doing.
- Yes, yes.
So, I think, in the world that we live in
is not necessarily where it could be
in valuing Ampersand-ing.
- There we are.
Thank you Leilani.
I'm feeling that with you.
(23:39):
Okay, I think it's time.
This is for the quick and dirty.
You don't have have to be dirty,
but you have to be quick.
But, as a geologist,
I imagine you don't mind getting dirty.
So, I'm gonna ask you questions
and you're gonna answeras fast as possible.
And, you're gonna put andeither in the word like sand,
or sand and water,
(23:59):
connecting things,
okay, you ready?- Okay.
- Do you feel prepared?
- I'll try.
- Okay, good.
I can't wait.
This is my favorite part of the show,
'cause I...
Because, mostly we're laughing.
Alright, ready?
Your best or favorite and-ing vacation?
- Iceland, New Zealand.
Many more lands to come.
(24:20):
- Amazing, yes.
And, do you have to beworking to be on vacation,
or can you just be on vacation,
or is always working and?
Or, vacation and work?
- Working and vacation mostly,
because working is alsosynonymous with play.
I love what I do.
(24:40):
So, working and playoften go hand in hand.
I have time to read.
I can be braiding sweetgrass,
and I can read a journal article,
and still be very happy while on vacation
and near the ocean.
- Yes, that's my absolute perfect version.
Okay.
(25:00):
Preferred ice cream ordessert that has and in it.
- I have no favorite dessert or ice cream.
- Are you a savory?
So, you wanna go savory,
combo savory platter?
- Ah, I do prefer savory over sweet.
(25:20):
- Okay, so if you weregonna make a trail mix
for the Kalalau Trail,
what would be in your trail mix?
- Ah, raisins, peanuts,coconut, coconut flakes,
and...
I keep forgetting to put the and's.
- We see it. We see it.
- I'll do it.
Raisins, and peanuts, and coconut flakes,
and dried pineapple, and macadamias.
(25:44):
And, last but not least,
my favorite type of nut,
almonds.
- You're my favorite type of nut.
Okay, we're gonna...
I love that you know exactlywhat goes in your trail mix.
I knew we'd get there.
Alright, an and-er you admire?
(26:05):
- And, and-er, I admire.
There's so many people.
Maybe...
Benjamin Franklin.
- Then you need to see theplay that's happening in Denver
that's a re-imagination of Franklin.
Okay, I'll send you the...
I'll send you the email.
(26:26):
But, Benjamin Franklin,
what were some of hisfavorite and-ings for you?
- I think what he did in science
and what he did for politics,
defining our nation.
I just think that those aresome major and-ings that he did
that really helped to shape
(26:47):
not only his individual lifeand the people in his sphere,
but our nation.
- I love it.
I love the way that you see the learning
and how it expands you
and then these circles thatripple out into our communities
and into our worlds.
Alright, here on the Ampersand,
we always like to offera toast, or a blessing,
(27:07):
or some...
Something from our gueststhat would sound like,
and may there always besour cream for your nachos
or whatever it feels like the...
An offering.
Do you have an and...
That you'd like to send us out with today?
- And, life is short,
(27:28):
the time we have is a gift,
and let us use that time to gift ourselves
and each other to the best we can.
(uplifting music)
That was Leilani Arthurs,
associate professor of GeologicalSciences at CU Boulder.
If you'd like to know more
about Leilani's research,
especially her work onearth's science education,
(27:49):
we'll leave links in the show notes.
The Ampersand is written andproduced by me, Erica Randall,
and Tim Grassley.
If there are folks you'd liketo hear from on the Ampersand,
do please email us at asinfo@colorado.edu.
Our theme music was composed and performed
by Nelson Walker,
a CU Boulder alum,brilliant cellist composer,
(28:10):
and a fantastic dancer.
Episodes are recorded at Interplay Studios
in Boulder, Colorado.
I'm Erica Randall
and this is the Ampersand.
(uplifting music)
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