September 2, 2024 • 25 mins
Today's guest owns that dance. Tin Tin Su is an intellectual force, whose research on tiny fruit flies led to fresh discoveries and innovative approaches to radiation therapy for those living with head and neck cancers. While she offers us a snippet of her work in the lab, Su spends today's episode discussing the childhood experiences in Burma and India that shaped her worldview, her interest in the U.S. and a leadership style that still finds space to dance.
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Learn more about Tin Tin Su's research and the Su Lab.
Learn more about Tin Tin's company, Suvica.
Tin Tin's latest NIH Biosketch.
Tin Tin's publications on NCBI.
Learn more about the Woodstock School.
Original music composed by Nelson Walker.
Recorded at Interplay Recording and Multimedia.
Written and produced by Erika Randall and Tim Grassley.
The Ampersand is a production of the College of Arts and Sciences at the University of Colorado Boulder.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[TYPEWRITER CLACKING]
ERIKA RANDALL (00:03):
A and S.
[TYPEWRITER DINGS]
I imagine the world of head andneck cancer research completely
transformed by Tin Tin Su.
Our guest today is avirtuoso of scholarly inquiry
whose lab and biotechcompany have uncovered
(00:26):
innovative approachesto cancer treatments
that help reduce thelikelihood cancer will return.
Beyond the science, Tin Tinis packed with perspective
on how she wants tolead a fulfilling life.
And on today's episode,she drops more wisdom
than producer Tim can handle.
[TAPE CLICKING]
(00:49):
[UPBEAT DISCO MUSIC]
I can't imagine1970's "Stayin' Alive"
John Travolta as TinTin's spirit animal.
And yet, on today'sepisode, she discusses
how Travolta, in his tight,white bell-bottom tuxedo,
beamed like agalaxy of confidence
that her teenage selfhoped to discover.
(01:10):
Listeners, I never thoughtI would fangirl so hard
for fruit flies andTin Tin's capacity
to anticipate and sojournin the immediate moment.
Maybe at this moment, Tin Tinis walking Boulder's streets
in the sameflared-out polyester,
noting critical subtleties thatcould bring lasting change.
[MELODIC INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC]
(01:34):
On The Ampersand, we callthis bringing together
of the impossible,the alchemy of ANDing.
Together, we'll hear stories ofhumans who imagine and create
by colliding their interests.
Rather than thinking of "and"as a simple conjunction in that
"ConjunctionJunction" kind of way,
we will hear stories of peoplewho see "and" as a verb,
a way to speak the beautifulwhen you intentionally let
(01:55):
the soft animal of yourbody love what it loves.
As St. Mary Oliver asks, "Whatis it you plan to do with
your one wild andprecious life?"
How I love this question.
When I'm mothering,creating, and collaborating,
it reminds me toreplace a singular
idea of what I think I shouldbecome with a full sensory verb
about experiencing.
(02:16):
I'm Erika Randall.
And this is Tin TinSu on The Ampersand.
TIN TIN SU (02:30):
Now, we do have very precise ways
of delivering radiationso that most of it
hits the cancer cells.
But there's alwayssort of bystanders
or even the surrounding tissue.
Because you do want toget all of it, cancer,
so you end up treating some ofthe neighboring tissues also.
So one use of the technologythat we're working on
(02:53):
would be to combineit with radiation.
And what the data supportis that the drug candidates
that we're working on canprevent tumors from coming back
after radiation.
ERIKA RANDALL: [INAUDIBLE] would make (03:07):
undefined
you have to go back and backand back with treatment.
TIN TIN SU (03:11):
Exactly.
So it's not so muchlike taking away
the side effects of radiationor anything like that.
Because I think, at present,that we just have to use it.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:21):
But decreasing the amount.
TIN TIN SU (03:23):
Decreasing, sometimes decreasing the amount,
but also moreimportant, not having
to go back for another roundor a recurrence of the tumor.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:31):
Yeah, OK.
You are my hero.
Do you have other siblingsand are they in the sciences?
TIN TIN SU (03:36):
I do.
Yeah, I have quite a few.
So, yes, there are sixof us all together.
And I also havethree half siblings.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:44):
Wow.
TIN TIN SU (03:45):
And we saw limited amount of the half siblings.
But I did grow up with six.
And then I also haveone adopted brother.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:53):
So you have all of these siblings.
Were you all in Burma together?
And then did you come tothe States on your own?
I want to knowabout that journey
and what it was like toleave such a big family?
TIN TIN SU (04:02):
Yeah, certainly.
So we were all in Burmauntil I was in high school.
And then my father got ajob with the World Health
Organization.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:13):
So he's also a scientist?
TIN TIN SU (04:15):
He is a doctor and also has
a degree in public health.
And so he was thenposted to Bangladesh.
So we left Burma afterI was in ninth grade.
And all of us, in a sense,all my immediate siblings,
six of us plus oneadopted brother,
went and lived in Bangladesh.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:36):
Wow.
TIN TIN SU (04:37):
We lived there for a total of six years.
And during that time, I wentto a boarding school in India
called Woodstock School.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:46):
Yes.
TIN TIN SU (04:46):
And we talked a little bit about that.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:48):
Well, because producer Tim is obsessed
and wanted to go to Woodstock.
TIN TIN SU (04:52):
Yeah, it's a great place.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:53):
And you described it.
I just watched your handswhen we were in the lobby.
You did this.
What were you seeing,can you tell me?
When you opened upthe frame, it was
like you pushed open a world.
Can you describe what it waslike walking into that school
and what it looked like?
TIN TIN SU (05:06):
There's a gate that says, Woodstock School.
And I remember that becausewhen we arrived there,
it was a very, very coldday, at night, in fact.
It's pretty remote.
It's in the Himalayas.
So you have to fly into Delhiand then take a bus from Delhi
(05:28):
to this hill station.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:30):
But when we think of you at Woodstock, right?
Or do you say theWoodstock School?
So we don't getconfused in here.
TIN TIN SU (05:37):
I just call it Woodstock.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:37):
We call it Woodstock?
TIN TIN SU (05:38):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:39):
Do people say, how was Jimi Hendrix?
How was Janis Joplin?
Do they get confused?
TIN TIN SU (05:43):
Some people.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:44):
OK.
TIN TIN SU (05:45):
Not all the people.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:46):
But for you, this was a four-year experience?
TIN TIN SU (05:48):
Two years.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:49):
Two years.
OK, that was mine aswell, two full years.
And it was completelytransformational for you.
TIN TIN SU (05:54):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:54):
So nature, hills, curiosity-- peer group finding?
TIN TIN SU (05:58):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, so staying in adorm with people your age
and having all the mealstogether and hiking
in large groups,going out camping.
Yeah, so all great.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:14):
What did that then determine for you?
More?
More alone?
More study, more community,more living in nature?
How did you get there?
Or how did you get toyour next stop from there?
TIN TIN SU (06:26):
I don't know if there was already
a seed in my head.
So first of all, Woodstockwas an international school.
And approximately a third werefrom the US, students, a third
were from the rest of theworld, a third from India.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:43):
Amazing.
TIN TIN SU (06:44):
So you get exposed to a lot
of different backgroundsand thinking.
And I have to say that I wasalways drawn to the students
from the US.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:56):
Why do you think?
TIN TIN SU (06:58):
I think because they talk back.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:00):
[LAUGHS]
TIN TIN SU (07:00):
I'm sorry, but--
ERIKA RANDALL (07:02):
You like it.
TIN TIN SU (07:02):
I liked it.
I liked it.
I loved it, you know?
I felt like, in general.
There's always exceptions.
But it really struck me thatyou question things more,
the students at the school.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:17):
And verbally?
TIN TIN SU (07:18):
Oh, yeah, verbally.
Yeah, they challengedthe teachers.
Whereas, it was less so forstudents from other countries.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:26):
Did you go home and cause ripples
because you started challenging?
TIN TIN SU (07:29):
Oh, I've always been kind of doing that, right.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:32):
So you saw them?
TIN TIN SU (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, I felt sort of a kinship.
So when I was still in Burma,and Saturday Night Fever
came out.
And the Burmesegovernment censors
what foreign movies are shown.
So it was not on the listof movies to be shown.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:49):
Which made you want to see it even more?
TIN TIN SU (07:51):
Well, so we talk about it or something.
And then the way thatI learned about it
was a magazine article writtenby some rebellious writer.
And I remember very clearly theyhad these thumbnail pictures
of, I think it was aseries of three or so,
of John Travolta in awhite suit, dancing.
(08:12):
And I remember thedescription of the movie.
And it was that he danced downthe street as if he owned it.
And I was like, I wantto go live in a country
where I can dance downthe street like I own it.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:28):
Yes.
TIN TIN SU (08:29):
And that planted the seed of going to the US.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:33):
And we are getting that t-shirt for you.
"Dance down the streetlike you own it."
TIN TIN SU (08:37):
"Like you own it," yes.
[LAUGHTER]
ERIKA RANDALL (08:40):
And we will wear that together.
TIN TIN SU (08:41):
Yeah, so I think about that even when I walk down
the street with my dog.
I was like, OK, I'm dancingdown the street like I own it.
I have made it here.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:50):
Yes, and you have, no imposter syndrome.
TIN TIN SU (08:53):
No imposter syndrome.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:54):
No, you are rocking that tuxedo--
TIN TIN SU (08:56):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:56):
--that white, flared-legged tuxedo
down the street.
TIN TIN SU (09:00):
Yep, yeah, but no paint cans, though.
[LAUGHTER]
This is the kindof environment I
want to be in, where you dorespect the elders or people who
have had moreexperience or authority.
But at the same time, ifit doesn't seem right,
(09:23):
you question it, right?
ERIKA RANDALL (09:24):
Yeah.
TIN TIN SU (09:25):
So I think that made me want
to go to college in the US.
And Burma being aformer British colony,
there was a lot of push frommy parents to go to England,
as opposed to-- and we had somerelatives in Britain and living
there and all of that.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:45):
So they were trying to turn you that way?
TIN TIN SU (09:46):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:47):
And you said, no, I'm going?
TIN TIN SU (09:48):
Yeah, I'm going to-- yeah, I'm going.
Well, so the challengewas that if I could apply.
So they're not goingto help me, basically.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:56):
Did they say, we don't support this,
we want you to gohere, if you do this?
TIN TIN SU (09:59):
We'll give you a ticket, right?
ERIKA RANDALL (10:01):
OK, we'll get you there, then good luck.
TIN TIN SU (10:02):
Yeah.
[LAUGHS]
ERIKA RANDALL (10:03):
Wow.
TIN TIN SU (10:04):
So you find a college, you apply,
and you get yourown scholarship.
We're not going to pay, right?
ERIKA RANDALL (10:11):
OK.
TIN TIN SU (10:12):
And you know, we'll pay.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:13):
I kind of like your parents, though.
TIN TIN SU (10:14):
Yeah, we'll pay if you do what
we think is better for you.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:18):
Oh.
TIN TIN SU (10:18):
But if you want to do something else, then--
ERIKA RANDALL (10:21):
Did that break your heart?
TIN TIN SU (10:22):
No, because that was a challenge.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:24):
It was a challenge.
TIN TIN SU (10:25):
It seems totally fair to me.
And so--
ERIKA RANDALL (10:28):
And at the time it felt fair to you?
TIN TIN SU (10:31):
Oh, yeah, it still does now, I think.
ERIKA RANDALL: So, good deal, I'm (10:33):
undefined
going to take door number two.
I'll take the plane ticket.
TIN TIN SU (10:36):
Yeah.
[LAUGHS] So I think Woodstockreally helped me with that.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:40):
That's incredible to have a school.
I feel similarlyabout Interlochen.
All of my friends from thereare doing amazing things.
It was like, we got thisincredibly saturated moment
to understand ourselves.
And it feels like somany high schoolers
don't get that opportunity.
TIN TIN SU (10:54):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:54):
Hopefully, they get it in college.
TIN TIN SU (10:56):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:56):
Because they get to go in
and they get tobe with research.
They get to be with morelike-minded, questioning folks,
whether it's faculty,students, or staff.
Can you kind of smell astudent and be like, ooh, they
have the curiosity?
Have you spentenough years that you
can kind of go, oh, this oneis going to be on to something?
And then have youwatched their career?
TIN TIN SU (11:17):
Yes and no.
I'm always surprised.
ERIKA RANDALL (11:20):
You are?
TIN TIN SU (11:21):
Yeah, so I think I know,
but it would turn out that Idon't know quite enough, right?
And smelling for usis looking at the kind
of questions they ask.
But one issue I findis that you have
to know enough toask questions, right?
ERIKA RANDALL (11:41):
Yes.
TIN TIN SU (11:42):
And people come with very different backgrounds.
So there can bepeople who didn't
have quite the sufficientbackground to even ask
questions.
But once given the opportunityand they learn something,
then they start to askreally great questions.
So I've learned not tomake assumptions based
(12:04):
on initial interactions, yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL: Yeah, I love that. (12:07):
undefined
You want to livewith anticipation.
Don't make assumptions.
I'm writing my bookof wisdoms from you.
You also talkedabout, with discovery
can also come others'disbelief, that folks aren't
as smart as you right away.
And they've laughed at some ofyour ideas you've articulated.
(12:28):
What was that like to be soclose to something you knew
was potent, that you neededpartnership and people
just not believing you orbelieving in your concepts?
TIN TIN SU (12:37):
You know, I think my upbringing prepared me for that.
Because as you know,Burma is mostly Buddhist.
But my mother'sside of the family
comes from thisfishing village where
the first Christianmissionaries landed.
So the whole villageis Christian.
So we had what you would callan interfaith upbringing.
ERIKA RANDALL (13:00):
OK.
TIN TIN SU (13:01):
We went to Bangladesh,
which is a Muslim country.
We went to India, wherethere's a lot of religions,
including Hinduism and so on.
And what I learned was that youmay believe that this one entity
is god, whereas theother person doesn't.
But it doesn't meanthat you can't talk.
(13:23):
So I think thatthis difference, I
have to say thereare more people
killed for differencesin religion
than differencesin science, right?
ERIKA RANDALL (13:31):
Yeah.
TIN TIN SU (13:32):
So whenever you feel differently or disagreement
or people not believing ornot taking you seriously,
it sort of pales in comparisonwith the differences
in religious belief andwhat people do for that.
So certainly, I've had myshare of being not believed.
Or I don't know if this is theepisode you're referring to,
(13:52):
but when we started makingdiscoveries in the fruit fly,
it was very hard to getsome of the people who
were working in cancerbiology to take us seriously.
But what I did was justtalk to enough people
until I found someone--
ERIKA RANDALL (14:07):
Yes, you did.
TIN TIN SU (14:08):
--who would take us seriously enough
to start testing some of ourfindings in cancer models.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:16):
And you took yourself and the work
seriously--
TIN TIN SU (14:19):
Absolutely.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:19):
--enough to move forward
without hearing the noise.
TIN TIN SU (14:22):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL: Because to you, it (14:22):
undefined
pales in comparison tothe pains that others
are causing one anotherthrough other disagreements.
For you, just noise.
TIN TIN SU (14:28):
Right, and also, I have
to say that I was cockyenough, if you will,
or self confident enough torealize that what we see is real
and that whoever doesn't reallyappreciate the relevance of it
is more coming from theirlimited experience--
ERIKA RANDALL (14:49):
We don't need them on the team.
TIN TIN SU (14:51):
--than because there was something
wrong with what we are doing.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:57):
Wow, I love that.
I love that strength ofknowing and that really we're
going to get theright team members.
Because you believein your team,
that's really critical for you--
TIN TIN SU (15:06):
Right.
ERIKA RANDALL (15:07):
--how you shape that.
If you were a rock band, whatwould your instrument be?
What would you be in rock?
You've got this rock band that'sgetting this research forward.
TIN TIN SU (15:17):
Yeah, I appreciate you asking this question,
but I'm so--
I have such a lackof talent in music
that my guitar teacher askedto stop giving me lessons.
ERIKA RANDALL (15:30):
[LAUGHS]
TIN TIN SU (15:31):
This is really sad.
ERIKA RANDALL (15:32):
This is so sad.
TIN TIN SU (15:33):
Yeah.
So I try reallyhard to be musical
because I have some peoplewho are musical in the family.
And yet, I have a very profoundlack of musical talent.
ERIKA RANDALL (15:45):
So much so that you can't even
imagine yourself doingair guitar in front
of an imaginary band.
TIN TIN SU (15:51):
People would ask me to stop doing air guitar.
That's the--
ERIKA RANDALL (15:56):
Like, your air guitar sounds brutal.
TIN TIN SU (15:58):
Yeah, that's right, please stop.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:00):
Stop with the air guitar.
TIN TIN SU (16:01):
So I don't know.
[LAUGHS] But whatI'm kind of drawn to
is the beat, so drumming.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:10):
Yeah, because you keep the cadence
of your research going.
TIN TIN SU (16:13):
Right, right.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:13):
You're keeping all the team members going.
TIN TIN SU (16:15):
That's the closest, but that
would be an insult to allthe drummers in the world.
I'm sorry.
[LAUGHS]
ERIKA RANDALL (16:21):
But you do see your lab,
but even beyond the lab,it's even into your company
that you have that each personhas a role that they play.
TIN TIN SU (16:29):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:29):
And you really get the best people
so you can really trustthem to do their thing.
TIN TIN SU (16:33):
Yes.
And also, it's veryimportant, I think,
to diversify their experience,expertise, and background
and the viewpoints.
So I think that's howyou build a strong team.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:44):
I love that, that when
we're thinking withdiverse viewpoints,
you don't want everyonejust yessing to you
or agreeing with you.
TIN TIN SU (16:50):
No, not at all.
In fact, I really love it whenmy team members challenge me.
Because two things, oneis I do know some things,
but I don't know everything.
And I have a certainway of thinking.
And it's only when youthink differently or come
(17:10):
with a differentknowledge base that I
think together you can synergizeand make things better.
If you have people on your teamwho know what you know and think
just like you, you're just goingto go at a much slower pace
than when you have diversity.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:30):
I always get really nervous around people
like you who aredoing things that
feel so concretely impactful.
I get my impostersyndrome, that I'm not
going to be smart enough toeven ask you the questions that
could spark something for you.
Have you had to deal withimposter syndrome at all?
I just have to ask.
TIN TIN SU (17:49):
You know, I can honestly say no.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:53):
Yes, I love that answer.
TIN TIN SU (17:55):
I'm sorry.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:56):
No, don't be sorry.
TIN TIN SU (17:57):
I feel like I should, but no.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:58):
You should not.
TIN TIN SU (17:59):
No, I do not feel that.
And in fact, I feelsometimes just the opposite
in that, damn it, I'm notappreciated enough, you know?
But anyways, so Ithink maybe it comes
from both my parentsreally believing in me
as I was growing up.
(18:19):
So I have to say, I do not feel.
And also the other thingthat I really enjoy
is going to placesI'm not familiar with,
kind of gettinginto projects that I
don't know too much about.
So the sense of feeling likeI don't know what I'm doing,
it's great.
Because that's whenyou learn a lot.
(18:42):
And that's when you comeup with new things to do.
So I guess a two part answeris I never really feel
like I don't belong,but even when I
do, because I'm starting anew project in a new area,
I like that sense.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:00):
Yeah, you like the challenge.
TIN TIN SU (19:01):
It's challenging.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:01):
So it's kind of a not belonging,
but there's like anunbelonging that excites you
towards then finding your way.
TIN TIN SU (19:07):
Yeah, because I'm going to learn a lot, you know?
ERIKA RANDALL (19:09):
OK, amazing.
All right, so now we're goingto get into the Quick and Dirty.
Because I could just keep going,and then we're going to have
an hour-and-a-half-long episode.
OK, so I don't know ifyou've gotten to listen,
but on the Quick and Dirty,it's a game show where
you have to answer things quick,but you don't have to be dirty.
And you're going to be combiningthings with "and" or finding
words that have "and" in them.
So I'll give you, like if I wereto say, an ideal weekend away
from boulder, you would sayhiking and the Rio Grande
(19:34):
pyramid.
See how I got both an "and"and an "and" in there?
TIN TIN SU (19:36):
Oh.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:37):
But you don't have to do both.
I know you're going totry to win all of it.
TIN TIN SU (19:40):
No.
[LAUGHS]
ERIKA RANDALL (19:41):
There's no prize.
TIN TIN SU (19:42):
Just one "and" is good?
ERIKA RANDALL (19:43):
Yeah, one "and" is good.
TIN TIN SU (19:44):
OK.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:44):
OK.
So I'm going to ask you, what'san ideal weekend for you,
either in boulder or away?
TIN TIN SU (19:50):
Working in the garden, watching some movies,
and going for a walk.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:55):
I love it.
OK, two plants that reallylike each other and grow well
side by side?
Who would you putnext to one another?
TIN TIN SU (20:02):
Two plants?
ERIKA RANDALL (20:02):
Plants, yeah.
TIN TIN SU (20:04):
OK, so I usually grow tomatoes,
eggplants, andbasil because then I
can put them in the same pot.
[LAUGHTER]
ERIKA RANDALL (20:12):
You're thinking to the end?
TIN TIN SU (20:14):
Oh, yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (20:14):
I love that.
You have Suvida,is that the name?
TIN TIN SU (20:21):
SuviCa.
ERIKA RANDALL (20:22):
SuviCa.
OK, your company'sname is SuviCa.
With all the thingsthat you're cooking up,
can you imagine another companythat you would create that had
"and" in it?
TIN TIN SU (20:31):
Definitely not, no.
ERIKA RANDALL: SuviCa holds it all? (20:32):
undefined
TIN TIN SU (20:34):
Yes.
Yeah, and also thisis my kind of foray
into taking the researchtowards the clinic.
And I'll be happy if I succeedonce, and that would be it.
So, sorry, no ands there.
ERIKA RANDALL (20:47):
No ands there, the end of the and.
OK, a destination,you've traveled a lot.
TIN TIN SU (20:53):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (20:53):
Do you have a destination
that you would like to seeor go back to or multiple
that you would put together?
TIN TIN SU (20:58):
You know, I would really
like to go back toAntarctica and fly there.
Because Drake Passageis like, oh my god,
I thought I was going to--
I really was thinking that if Ijust go and jump off this ship,
I won't be seasickanymore, so yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (21:18):
So Antarctica?
TIN TIN SU (21:20):
Antarctica, and flying there.
ERIKA RANDALL (21:22):
I love that answer.
[LAUGHS] I meant to ask you thisearlier because you're really
kind of funny.
Do you know that you're funny?
And do you have a comedianthat you listen to
or do you read thingsthat are funny?
What has influenced your humor?
And you could maybe withan "and" in the middle.
TIN TIN SU (21:38):
I saw that question in the list
and I was really surprised.
Because I do notconsider myself funny.
But I do enjoy watchinghumor shows, if you will.
So, for example, I tendto like Colbert Report
and John Oliver, that kind.
You know, funny, butalso kind of critical.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:01):
Yes.
TIN TIN SU (22:02):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:02):
Love it.
And they're certainlyfolks who are
going to ask the questionsand kind of fight
back and give it to a system.
You're down with that?
TIN TIN SU (22:09):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:09):
Yeah.
A list of systems that you wouldlike to take down personally?
TIN TIN SU (22:15):
A list of systems?
I think the health careindustry, in a lot of ways,
is profit driven and notenough patient focused.
And I would liketo take that down.
And also the insurancesystem, because again,
(22:37):
it's profit focused.
But when you do need insurance,it's because you're in trouble.
And so there are somesystems that should, I think,
be non-profit.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:49):
Wow, I love that.
OK, questions that are makingyou curious in your lab
right now.
TIN TIN SU (22:55):
We discover a few years back
that when tissues regenerateafter damage, some of the cells
would basically shapeshift.
They would switchtheir identities
so that they can fill in fortheir neighbors, basically.
And so we are trying tounderstand, A, how do
(23:17):
they know to do that?
and B, how do they do that?
And so that's a bigquestion in the lab.
And we have some hintsthat we're following up.
ERIKA RANDALL (23:30):
That sounds like a sci-fi premise.
TIN TIN SU (23:32):
I think a lot of science is like sci-fi.
[LAUGHS] Because it's sointeresting and sometimes
unexpected.
ERIKA RANDALL (23:39):
That's right.
And the creativity ittakes to both think
with that kind of brain andthen write those stories,
you're living that right now.
TIN TIN SU (23:45):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (23:45):
That's super exciting.
All right, this isour last question.
You're going tooffer up a blessing.
You're going tooffer up a charge.
You're going to offer up a"and may you" to your students,
to a mentee, to ourlisteners into the world.
What would you give as youroffering that begins with "and?"
TIN TIN SU (24:06):
I hope that you have the health and the community
and the resources tofollow the path that you
want for yourself in your life.
[MELODIC INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC]
ERIKA RANDALL (24:21):
That was Tin Tin Su, Professor
of Molecular, Cellular,and Developmental
Biology at the Universityof Colorado, Boulder.
For more on Tin Tin'sresearch and company,
please see our show notes.
The Ampersand is aproduction of the College
of Arts and Sciences at theUniversity of Colorado Boulder.
It is written and producedby me, Erika Randall,
(24:41):
and Tim Grassley.
If there are peopleyou'd like us
to interview on TheAmpersand, do please email
us at asinfo@colorado.edu.
Our theme music was composedand performed by Nelson Walker.
And the episodes are recordedat Interplay Recording
in Boulder, Colorado.
I'm Erika Randall, andthis is The Ampersand.
(25:02):
[MELODIC INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC]
[TYPEWRITER CLACKING]
ERIKA RANDALL (00:03):
A and S.
[TYPEWRITER DINGS]
I imagine the world of head andneck cancer research completely
transformed by Tin Tin Su.
Our guest today is avirtuoso of scholarly inquiry
whose lab and biotechcompany have uncovered
(00:26):
innovative approachesto cancer treatments
that help reduce thelikelihood cancer will return.
Beyond the science, Tin Tinis packed with perspective
on how she wants tolead a fulfilling life.
And on today's episode,she drops more wisdom
than producer Tim can handle.
[TAPE CLICKING]
(00:49):
[UPBEAT DISCO MUSIC]
I can't imagine1970's "Stayin' Alive"
John Travolta as TinTin's spirit animal.
And yet, on today'sepisode, she discusses
how Travolta, in his tight,white bell-bottom tuxedo,
beamed like agalaxy of confidence
that her teenage selfhoped to discover.
(01:10):
Listeners, I never thoughtI would fangirl so hard
for fruit flies andTin Tin's capacity
to anticipate and sojournin the immediate moment.
Maybe at this moment, Tin Tinis walking Boulder's streets
in the sameflared-out polyester,
noting critical subtleties thatcould bring lasting change.
[MELODIC INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC]
(01:34):
On The Ampersand, we callthis bringing together
of the impossible,the alchemy of ANDing.
Together, we'll hear stories ofhumans who imagine and create
by colliding their interests.
Rather than thinking of "and"as a simple conjunction in that
"ConjunctionJunction" kind of way,
we will hear stories of peoplewho see "and" as a verb,
a way to speak the beautifulwhen you intentionally let
(01:55):
the soft animal of yourbody love what it loves.
As St. Mary Oliver asks, "Whatis it you plan to do with
your one wild andprecious life?"
How I love this question.
When I'm mothering,creating, and collaborating,
it reminds me toreplace a singular
idea of what I think I shouldbecome with a full sensory verb
about experiencing.
(02:16):
I'm Erika Randall.
And this is Tin TinSu on The Ampersand.
TIN TIN SU (02:30):
Now, we do have very precise ways
of delivering radiationso that most of it
hits the cancer cells.
But there's alwayssort of bystanders
or even the surrounding tissue.
Because you do want toget all of it, cancer,
so you end up treating some ofthe neighboring tissues also.
So one use of the technologythat we're working on
(02:53):
would be to combineit with radiation.
And what the data supportis that the drug candidates
that we're working on canprevent tumors from coming back
after radiation.
ERIKA RANDALL: [INAUDIBLE] would make (03:07):
undefined
you have to go back and backand back with treatment.
TIN TIN SU (03:11):
Exactly.
So it's not so muchlike taking away
the side effects of radiationor anything like that.
Because I think, at present,that we just have to use it.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:21):
But decreasing the amount.
TIN TIN SU (03:23):
Decreasing, sometimes decreasing the amount,
but also moreimportant, not having
to go back for another roundor a recurrence of the tumor.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:31):
Yeah, OK.
You are my hero.
Do you have other siblingsand are they in the sciences?
TIN TIN SU (03:36):
I do.
Yeah, I have quite a few.
So, yes, there are sixof us all together.
And I also havethree half siblings.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:44):
Wow.
TIN TIN SU (03:45):
And we saw limited amount of the half siblings.
But I did grow up with six.
And then I also haveone adopted brother.
ERIKA RANDALL (03:53):
So you have all of these siblings.
Were you all in Burma together?
And then did you come tothe States on your own?
I want to knowabout that journey
and what it was like toleave such a big family?
TIN TIN SU (04:02):
Yeah, certainly.
So we were all in Burmauntil I was in high school.
And then my father got ajob with the World Health
Organization.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:13):
So he's also a scientist?
TIN TIN SU (04:15):
He is a doctor and also has
a degree in public health.
And so he was thenposted to Bangladesh.
So we left Burma afterI was in ninth grade.
And all of us, in a sense,all my immediate siblings,
six of us plus oneadopted brother,
went and lived in Bangladesh.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:36):
Wow.
TIN TIN SU (04:37):
We lived there for a total of six years.
And during that time, I wentto a boarding school in India
called Woodstock School.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:46):
Yes.
TIN TIN SU (04:46):
And we talked a little bit about that.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:48):
Well, because producer Tim is obsessed
and wanted to go to Woodstock.
TIN TIN SU (04:52):
Yeah, it's a great place.
ERIKA RANDALL (04:53):
And you described it.
I just watched your handswhen we were in the lobby.
You did this.
What were you seeing,can you tell me?
When you opened upthe frame, it was
like you pushed open a world.
Can you describe what it waslike walking into that school
and what it looked like?
TIN TIN SU (05:06):
There's a gate that says, Woodstock School.
And I remember that becausewhen we arrived there,
it was a very, very coldday, at night, in fact.
It's pretty remote.
It's in the Himalayas.
So you have to fly into Delhiand then take a bus from Delhi
(05:28):
to this hill station.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:30):
But when we think of you at Woodstock, right?
Or do you say theWoodstock School?
So we don't getconfused in here.
TIN TIN SU (05:37):
I just call it Woodstock.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:37):
We call it Woodstock?
TIN TIN SU (05:38):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:39):
Do people say, how was Jimi Hendrix?
How was Janis Joplin?
Do they get confused?
TIN TIN SU (05:43):
Some people.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:44):
OK.
TIN TIN SU (05:45):
Not all the people.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:46):
But for you, this was a four-year experience?
TIN TIN SU (05:48):
Two years.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:49):
Two years.
OK, that was mine aswell, two full years.
And it was completelytransformational for you.
TIN TIN SU (05:54):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (05:54):
So nature, hills, curiosity-- peer group finding?
TIN TIN SU (05:58):
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, so staying in adorm with people your age
and having all the mealstogether and hiking
in large groups,going out camping.
Yeah, so all great.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:14):
What did that then determine for you?
More?
More alone?
More study, more community,more living in nature?
How did you get there?
Or how did you get toyour next stop from there?
TIN TIN SU (06:26):
I don't know if there was already
a seed in my head.
So first of all, Woodstockwas an international school.
And approximately a third werefrom the US, students, a third
were from the rest of theworld, a third from India.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:43):
Amazing.
TIN TIN SU (06:44):
So you get exposed to a lot
of different backgroundsand thinking.
And I have to say that I wasalways drawn to the students
from the US.
ERIKA RANDALL (06:56):
Why do you think?
TIN TIN SU (06:58):
I think because they talk back.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:00):
[LAUGHS]
TIN TIN SU (07:00):
I'm sorry, but--
ERIKA RANDALL (07:02):
You like it.
TIN TIN SU (07:02):
I liked it.
I liked it.
I loved it, you know?
I felt like, in general.
There's always exceptions.
But it really struck me thatyou question things more,
the students at the school.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:17):
And verbally?
TIN TIN SU (07:18):
Oh, yeah, verbally.
Yeah, they challengedthe teachers.
Whereas, it was less so forstudents from other countries.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:26):
Did you go home and cause ripples
because you started challenging?
TIN TIN SU (07:29):
Oh, I've always been kind of doing that, right.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:32):
So you saw them?
TIN TIN SU (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, I felt sort of a kinship.
So when I was still in Burma,and Saturday Night Fever
came out.
And the Burmesegovernment censors
what foreign movies are shown.
So it was not on the listof movies to be shown.
ERIKA RANDALL (07:49):
Which made you want to see it even more?
TIN TIN SU (07:51):
Well, so we talk about it or something.
And then the way thatI learned about it
was a magazine article writtenby some rebellious writer.
And I remember very clearly theyhad these thumbnail pictures
of, I think it was aseries of three or so,
of John Travolta in awhite suit, dancing.
(08:12):
And I remember thedescription of the movie.
And it was that he danced downthe street as if he owned it.
And I was like, I wantto go live in a country
where I can dance downthe street like I own it.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:28):
Yes.
TIN TIN SU (08:29):
And that planted the seed of going to the US.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:33):
And we are getting that t-shirt for you.
"Dance down the streetlike you own it."
TIN TIN SU (08:37):
"Like you own it," yes.
[LAUGHTER]
ERIKA RANDALL (08:40):
And we will wear that together.
TIN TIN SU (08:41):
Yeah, so I think about that even when I walk down
the street with my dog.
I was like, OK, I'm dancingdown the street like I own it.
I have made it here.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:50):
Yes, and you have, no imposter syndrome.
TIN TIN SU (08:53):
No imposter syndrome.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:54):
No, you are rocking that tuxedo--
TIN TIN SU (08:56):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (08:56):
--that white, flared-legged tuxedo
down the street.
TIN TIN SU (09:00):
Yep, yeah, but no paint cans, though.
[LAUGHTER]
This is the kindof environment I
want to be in, where you dorespect the elders or people who
have had moreexperience or authority.
But at the same time, ifit doesn't seem right,
(09:23):
you question it, right?
ERIKA RANDALL (09:24):
Yeah.
TIN TIN SU (09:25):
So I think that made me want
to go to college in the US.
And Burma being aformer British colony,
there was a lot of push frommy parents to go to England,
as opposed to-- and we had somerelatives in Britain and living
there and all of that.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:45):
So they were trying to turn you that way?
TIN TIN SU (09:46):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:47):
And you said, no, I'm going?
TIN TIN SU (09:48):
Yeah, I'm going to-- yeah, I'm going.
Well, so the challengewas that if I could apply.
So they're not goingto help me, basically.
ERIKA RANDALL (09:56):
Did they say, we don't support this,
we want you to gohere, if you do this?
TIN TIN SU (09:59):
We'll give you a ticket, right?
ERIKA RANDALL (10:01):
OK, we'll get you there, then good luck.
TIN TIN SU (10:02):
Yeah.
[LAUGHS]
ERIKA RANDALL (10:03):
Wow.
TIN TIN SU (10:04):
So you find a college, you apply,
and you get yourown scholarship.
We're not going to pay, right?
ERIKA RANDALL (10:11):
OK.
TIN TIN SU (10:12):
And you know, we'll pay.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:13):
I kind of like your parents, though.
TIN TIN SU (10:14):
Yeah, we'll pay if you do what
we think is better for you.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:18):
Oh.
TIN TIN SU (10:18):
But if you want to do something else, then--
ERIKA RANDALL (10:21):
Did that break your heart?
TIN TIN SU (10:22):
No, because that was a challenge.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:24):
It was a challenge.
TIN TIN SU (10:25):
It seems totally fair to me.
And so--
ERIKA RANDALL (10:28):
And at the time it felt fair to you?
TIN TIN SU (10:31):
Oh, yeah, it still does now, I think.
ERIKA RANDALL: So, good deal, I'm (10:33):
undefined
going to take door number two.
I'll take the plane ticket.
TIN TIN SU (10:36):
Yeah.
[LAUGHS] So I think Woodstockreally helped me with that.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:40):
That's incredible to have a school.
I feel similarlyabout Interlochen.
All of my friends from thereare doing amazing things.
It was like, we got thisincredibly saturated moment
to understand ourselves.
And it feels like somany high schoolers
don't get that opportunity.
TIN TIN SU (10:54):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:54):
Hopefully, they get it in college.
TIN TIN SU (10:56):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (10:56):
Because they get to go in
and they get tobe with research.
They get to be with morelike-minded, questioning folks,
whether it's faculty,students, or staff.
Can you kind of smell astudent and be like, ooh, they
have the curiosity?
Have you spentenough years that you
can kind of go, oh, this oneis going to be on to something?
And then have youwatched their career?
TIN TIN SU (11:17):
Yes and no.
I'm always surprised.
ERIKA RANDALL (11:20):
You are?
TIN TIN SU (11:21):
Yeah, so I think I know,
but it would turn out that Idon't know quite enough, right?
And smelling for usis looking at the kind
of questions they ask.
But one issue I findis that you have
to know enough toask questions, right?
ERIKA RANDALL (11:41):
Yes.
TIN TIN SU (11:42):
And people come with very different backgrounds.
So there can bepeople who didn't
have quite the sufficientbackground to even ask
questions.
But once given the opportunityand they learn something,
then they start to askreally great questions.
So I've learned not tomake assumptions based
(12:04):
on initial interactions, yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL: Yeah, I love that. (12:07):
undefined
You want to livewith anticipation.
Don't make assumptions.
I'm writing my bookof wisdoms from you.
You also talkedabout, with discovery
can also come others'disbelief, that folks aren't
as smart as you right away.
And they've laughed at some ofyour ideas you've articulated.
(12:28):
What was that like to be soclose to something you knew
was potent, that you neededpartnership and people
just not believing you orbelieving in your concepts?
TIN TIN SU (12:37):
You know, I think my upbringing prepared me for that.
Because as you know,Burma is mostly Buddhist.
But my mother'sside of the family
comes from thisfishing village where
the first Christianmissionaries landed.
So the whole villageis Christian.
So we had what you would callan interfaith upbringing.
ERIKA RANDALL (13:00):
OK.
TIN TIN SU (13:01):
We went to Bangladesh,
which is a Muslim country.
We went to India, wherethere's a lot of religions,
including Hinduism and so on.
And what I learned was that youmay believe that this one entity
is god, whereas theother person doesn't.
But it doesn't meanthat you can't talk.
(13:23):
So I think thatthis difference, I
have to say thereare more people
killed for differencesin religion
than differencesin science, right?
ERIKA RANDALL (13:31):
Yeah.
TIN TIN SU (13:32):
So whenever you feel differently or disagreement
or people not believing ornot taking you seriously,
it sort of pales in comparisonwith the differences
in religious belief andwhat people do for that.
So certainly, I've had myshare of being not believed.
Or I don't know if this is theepisode you're referring to,
(13:52):
but when we started makingdiscoveries in the fruit fly,
it was very hard to getsome of the people who
were working in cancerbiology to take us seriously.
But what I did was justtalk to enough people
until I found someone--
ERIKA RANDALL (14:07):
Yes, you did.
TIN TIN SU (14:08):
--who would take us seriously enough
to start testing some of ourfindings in cancer models.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:16):
And you took yourself and the work
seriously--
TIN TIN SU (14:19):
Absolutely.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:19):
--enough to move forward
without hearing the noise.
TIN TIN SU (14:22):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL: Because to you, it (14:22):
undefined
pales in comparison tothe pains that others
are causing one anotherthrough other disagreements.
For you, just noise.
TIN TIN SU (14:28):
Right, and also, I have
to say that I was cockyenough, if you will,
or self confident enough torealize that what we see is real
and that whoever doesn't reallyappreciate the relevance of it
is more coming from theirlimited experience--
ERIKA RANDALL (14:49):
We don't need them on the team.
TIN TIN SU (14:51):
--than because there was something
wrong with what we are doing.
ERIKA RANDALL (14:57):
Wow, I love that.
I love that strength ofknowing and that really we're
going to get theright team members.
Because you believein your team,
that's really critical for you--
TIN TIN SU (15:06):
Right.
ERIKA RANDALL (15:07):
--how you shape that.
If you were a rock band, whatwould your instrument be?
What would you be in rock?
You've got this rock band that'sgetting this research forward.
TIN TIN SU (15:17):
Yeah, I appreciate you asking this question,
but I'm so--
I have such a lackof talent in music
that my guitar teacher askedto stop giving me lessons.
ERIKA RANDALL (15:30):
[LAUGHS]
TIN TIN SU (15:31):
This is really sad.
ERIKA RANDALL (15:32):
This is so sad.
TIN TIN SU (15:33):
Yeah.
So I try reallyhard to be musical
because I have some peoplewho are musical in the family.
And yet, I have a very profoundlack of musical talent.
ERIKA RANDALL (15:45):
So much so that you can't even
imagine yourself doingair guitar in front
of an imaginary band.
TIN TIN SU (15:51):
People would ask me to stop doing air guitar.
That's the--
ERIKA RANDALL (15:56):
Like, your air guitar sounds brutal.
TIN TIN SU (15:58):
Yeah, that's right, please stop.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:00):
Stop with the air guitar.
TIN TIN SU (16:01):
So I don't know.
[LAUGHS] But whatI'm kind of drawn to
is the beat, so drumming.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:10):
Yeah, because you keep the cadence
of your research going.
TIN TIN SU (16:13):
Right, right.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:13):
You're keeping all the team members going.
TIN TIN SU (16:15):
That's the closest, but that
would be an insult to allthe drummers in the world.
I'm sorry.
[LAUGHS]
ERIKA RANDALL (16:21):
But you do see your lab,
but even beyond the lab,it's even into your company
that you have that each personhas a role that they play.
TIN TIN SU (16:29):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:29):
And you really get the best people
so you can really trustthem to do their thing.
TIN TIN SU (16:33):
Yes.
And also, it's veryimportant, I think,
to diversify their experience,expertise, and background
and the viewpoints.
So I think that's howyou build a strong team.
ERIKA RANDALL (16:44):
I love that, that when
we're thinking withdiverse viewpoints,
you don't want everyonejust yessing to you
or agreeing with you.
TIN TIN SU (16:50):
No, not at all.
In fact, I really love it whenmy team members challenge me.
Because two things, oneis I do know some things,
but I don't know everything.
And I have a certainway of thinking.
And it's only when youthink differently or come
(17:10):
with a differentknowledge base that I
think together you can synergizeand make things better.
If you have people on your teamwho know what you know and think
just like you, you're just goingto go at a much slower pace
than when you have diversity.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:30):
I always get really nervous around people
like you who aredoing things that
feel so concretely impactful.
I get my impostersyndrome, that I'm not
going to be smart enough toeven ask you the questions that
could spark something for you.
Have you had to deal withimposter syndrome at all?
I just have to ask.
TIN TIN SU (17:49):
You know, I can honestly say no.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:53):
Yes, I love that answer.
TIN TIN SU (17:55):
I'm sorry.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:56):
No, don't be sorry.
TIN TIN SU (17:57):
I feel like I should, but no.
ERIKA RANDALL (17:58):
You should not.
TIN TIN SU (17:59):
No, I do not feel that.
And in fact, I feelsometimes just the opposite
in that, damn it, I'm notappreciated enough, you know?
But anyways, so Ithink maybe it comes
from both my parentsreally believing in me
as I was growing up.
(18:19):
So I have to say, I do not feel.
And also the other thingthat I really enjoy
is going to placesI'm not familiar with,
kind of gettinginto projects that I
don't know too much about.
So the sense of feeling likeI don't know what I'm doing,
it's great.
Because that's whenyou learn a lot.
(18:42):
And that's when you comeup with new things to do.
So I guess a two part answeris I never really feel
like I don't belong,but even when I
do, because I'm starting anew project in a new area,
I like that sense.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:00):
Yeah, you like the challenge.
TIN TIN SU (19:01):
It's challenging.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:01):
So it's kind of a not belonging,
but there's like anunbelonging that excites you
towards then finding your way.
TIN TIN SU (19:07):
Yeah, because I'm going to learn a lot, you know?
ERIKA RANDALL (19:09):
OK, amazing.
All right, so now we're goingto get into the Quick and Dirty.
Because I could just keep going,and then we're going to have
an hour-and-a-half-long episode.
OK, so I don't know ifyou've gotten to listen,
but on the Quick and Dirty,it's a game show where
you have to answer things quick,but you don't have to be dirty.
And you're going to be combiningthings with "and" or finding
words that have "and" in them.
So I'll give you, like if I wereto say, an ideal weekend away
from boulder, you would sayhiking and the Rio Grande
(19:34):
pyramid.
See how I got both an "and"and an "and" in there?
TIN TIN SU (19:36):
Oh.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:37):
But you don't have to do both.
I know you're going totry to win all of it.
TIN TIN SU (19:40):
No.
[LAUGHS]
ERIKA RANDALL (19:41):
There's no prize.
TIN TIN SU (19:42):
Just one "and" is good?
ERIKA RANDALL (19:43):
Yeah, one "and" is good.
TIN TIN SU (19:44):
OK.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:44):
OK.
So I'm going to ask you, what'san ideal weekend for you,
either in boulder or away?
TIN TIN SU (19:50):
Working in the garden, watching some movies,
and going for a walk.
ERIKA RANDALL (19:55):
I love it.
OK, two plants that reallylike each other and grow well
side by side?
Who would you putnext to one another?
TIN TIN SU (20:02):
Two plants?
ERIKA RANDALL (20:02):
Plants, yeah.
TIN TIN SU (20:04):
OK, so I usually grow tomatoes,
eggplants, andbasil because then I
can put them in the same pot.
[LAUGHTER]
ERIKA RANDALL (20:12):
You're thinking to the end?
TIN TIN SU (20:14):
Oh, yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (20:14):
I love that.
You have Suvida,is that the name?
TIN TIN SU (20:21):
SuviCa.
ERIKA RANDALL (20:22):
SuviCa.
OK, your company'sname is SuviCa.
With all the thingsthat you're cooking up,
can you imagine another companythat you would create that had
"and" in it?
TIN TIN SU (20:31):
Definitely not, no.
ERIKA RANDALL: SuviCa holds it all? (20:32):
undefined
TIN TIN SU (20:34):
Yes.
Yeah, and also thisis my kind of foray
into taking the researchtowards the clinic.
And I'll be happy if I succeedonce, and that would be it.
So, sorry, no ands there.
ERIKA RANDALL (20:47):
No ands there, the end of the and.
OK, a destination,you've traveled a lot.
TIN TIN SU (20:53):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (20:53):
Do you have a destination
that you would like to seeor go back to or multiple
that you would put together?
TIN TIN SU (20:58):
You know, I would really
like to go back toAntarctica and fly there.
Because Drake Passageis like, oh my god,
I thought I was going to--
I really was thinking that if Ijust go and jump off this ship,
I won't be seasickanymore, so yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (21:18):
So Antarctica?
TIN TIN SU (21:20):
Antarctica, and flying there.
ERIKA RANDALL (21:22):
I love that answer.
[LAUGHS] I meant to ask you thisearlier because you're really
kind of funny.
Do you know that you're funny?
And do you have a comedianthat you listen to
or do you read thingsthat are funny?
What has influenced your humor?
And you could maybe withan "and" in the middle.
TIN TIN SU (21:38):
I saw that question in the list
and I was really surprised.
Because I do notconsider myself funny.
But I do enjoy watchinghumor shows, if you will.
So, for example, I tendto like Colbert Report
and John Oliver, that kind.
You know, funny, butalso kind of critical.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:01):
Yes.
TIN TIN SU (22:02):
Yeah.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:02):
Love it.
And they're certainlyfolks who are
going to ask the questionsand kind of fight
back and give it to a system.
You're down with that?
TIN TIN SU (22:09):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:09):
Yeah.
A list of systems that you wouldlike to take down personally?
TIN TIN SU (22:15):
A list of systems?
I think the health careindustry, in a lot of ways,
is profit driven and notenough patient focused.
And I would liketo take that down.
And also the insurancesystem, because again,
(22:37):
it's profit focused.
But when you do need insurance,it's because you're in trouble.
And so there are somesystems that should, I think,
be non-profit.
ERIKA RANDALL (22:49):
Wow, I love that.
OK, questions that are makingyou curious in your lab
right now.
TIN TIN SU (22:55):
We discover a few years back
that when tissues regenerateafter damage, some of the cells
would basically shapeshift.
They would switchtheir identities
so that they can fill in fortheir neighbors, basically.
And so we are trying tounderstand, A, how do
(23:17):
they know to do that?
and B, how do they do that?
And so that's a bigquestion in the lab.
And we have some hintsthat we're following up.
ERIKA RANDALL (23:30):
That sounds like a sci-fi premise.
TIN TIN SU (23:32):
I think a lot of science is like sci-fi.
[LAUGHS] Because it's sointeresting and sometimes
unexpected.
ERIKA RANDALL (23:39):
That's right.
And the creativity ittakes to both think
with that kind of brain andthen write those stories,
you're living that right now.
TIN TIN SU (23:45):
Yes.
ERIKA RANDALL (23:45):
That's super exciting.
All right, this isour last question.
You're going tooffer up a blessing.
You're going tooffer up a charge.
You're going to offer up a"and may you" to your students,
to a mentee, to ourlisteners into the world.
What would you give as youroffering that begins with "and?"
TIN TIN SU (24:06):
I hope that you have the health and the community
and the resources tofollow the path that you
want for yourself in your life.
[MELODIC INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC]
ERIKA RANDALL (24:21):
That was Tin Tin Su, Professor
of Molecular, Cellular,and Developmental
Biology at the Universityof Colorado, Boulder.
For more on Tin Tin'sresearch and company,
please see our show notes.
The Ampersand is aproduction of the College
of Arts and Sciences at theUniversity of Colorado Boulder.
It is written and producedby me, Erika Randall,
(24:41):
and Tim Grassley.
If there are peopleyou'd like us
to interview on TheAmpersand, do please email
us at asinfo@colorado.edu.
Our theme music was composedand performed by Nelson Walker.
And the episodes are recordedat Interplay Recording
in Boulder, Colorado.
I'm Erika Randall, andthis is The Ampersand.
(25:02):
[MELODIC INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC]
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