September 25, 2023 • 32 mins
What happens when you not only collaborate on a project, but you also meet your creative work and research bestie?
The result, in the case of today's guests, is We Are Coming, a project by Yumi Janairo Roth and Emmanuel David about Filipino pasts and futures. In 1899, Buffalo Bill's Wild West hired three Filipinos to join the Congress of Rough Riders of the World. Although the Filipino Rough Riders were largely forgotten to history, Roth and David are working with historic theaters in towns and cities where the Wild West show traveled to install the trio’s names —Ysidora Alcantara, Felix Alcantara, and Geronimo Ynosincio – on vintage marquees.
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Learn more about the Denver Museum of Contemporary Art's show, Cowboy, which features We are coming.
Bucking the myth of the American cowboy.
The Museum of Contemporary Art Denver Questions the Cowboy.
Learn more about the installation in Cody, WY.
Learn more about Yumi Janairo Roth's work and the project We are coming.
More about Emmanuel David's work.
Music by Nelson Walker.
Episodes recorded at Interplay Recording in Boulder, CO.
Written and produced by Erika Randall and Tim Grassley.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(typewriter keys striking)
- A and S.
(typewriter carriage returning, dinging)
(crowd conversing)
- I imagine standing outside the Museum
of Contemporary Art in Denver,
waiting anxiously to see Yumi Janairo Roth
(00:21):
and Emmanuel David'sart installation titled,
"We Are Coming."
It's September 29th,and the crackle of neon
of an old movie theatermarquee sparks to life.
Yumi and Emmanuel look on at the names
of three original Filipino Rough Riders
from the Buffalo Bills 1890s Wild West,
once invisiblized, and now abright topography of lights.
(00:42):
As the crowd whispers thenames Ysidora, Geronimo, Felix,
I imagine the research twistsand turns the breadcrumbs
like boulders to Emmanuel and Yumi,
critical to uncoveringthe stories of the erased.
I imagine the voices of thesebrave performers leading
them on and into the exhibitthat rebodies the past.
(crowd conversing)
(01:07):
- Right, right, right.
Okay, wait, I'm asking, nowthat light is blinding me.
Is there any way to-
- Yeah.- Yeah, there you go, thanks.
- I was like, oh my God.- Oh, that's great.
- I can't imagine a timeYumi and Emmanuel besties,
who didn't text all day, every day.
These two sit in conversationwith such delight
and urgency, that it's impossible
to imagine them not connected.
(01:28):
What you don't know, dear listeners,
is that they asked torearrange our recording studio,
so they could look at one another
and pass silent dialogues asfluently as those shared aloud.
Their energy for making anduncovering is infectious,
as is the way they and together as humans.
I can't imagine a moment when they're not
in constant conversation,and thank goodness
we don't have to.
(guitar music)
(01:58):
- On "The Ampersand," wecall this bringing together
of the impossible, the alchemy of anding.
Together we'll hear stories ofhumans who imagine and create
by colliding their interests.
Rather than thinking of andas a simple conjunction,
in that "Conjunction Junction" kinda way,
we will hear stories of people who see and
as a verb, a way to speak the beautiful
when you intentionally let the soft animal
(02:20):
of your body love what it loves.
As St. Mary Oliver asks,
"What is it you plan todo with your one wild
"and precious life?"
Oh, I love this question.
When I'm mothering,creating and collaborating,
it reminds me to replace a singular idea
of what I think I should become
with a full sensoryverb about experiencing.
(02:41):
I'm Erika Randall,
and this is Emmanuel Davidand Yumi Janairo Roth
on "The Ampersand."
- As a form of background,people don't know this,
but the Philippines hasa long ranching history,
long cowboy culture or koboy culture.
(03:04):
And I come from that.
It's hard to believe thisactually has a connection
to that, but it does.
- It's hard for you tobelieve for me seeing you
in this hoodie.- You, me, not so much you.
- You in this Nike hoodie.- Me, not so much.
As I always joke, and I've told Emmanuel,
I told a lot of people whenI graduated from a college,
my grandfather came tomy college graduation
and he came and he gave me a cow.
(03:27):
I got a cow for graduationbecause a cow begets cattle.
And cattle is wealth.
My cow was stolen within the next year,
but that is beside thepoint (all laughing)
that was, I was cattlerustled off an island.
- You were rustled off an island?
- Yeah, because cattle,cattle ranching happens
on islands, right, in the Philippines.
So the point is that we,so we've been talking
(03:48):
about rodeos that happenedin the Philippines
and we're planning on going to one.
We were gonna go to itlast year, but just in the-
- In the Philippines?- In the Philippines.
We're gonna go next year.
Well, just becausethere's this whole erasure
of like kind of whatthis culture looks like
outside of the American West.
It's the story of the AmericanWest is way more complex
than the sort of the generalnarrative that's often shared.
(04:08):
And so yesterday Emmanuel sent me a photo
of a family friend, or was it?
Yes, wearing a stack of cowboy hats.
Must have been 10.- Yeah.
- Do you remember this photo being taken?
- It was, it was shared with me because
we were talking about this rodeo.
- Yeah.
- And redistributing thosehats to the folks at the rodeo.
(04:30):
And I share photos, like old photos.
Like, see, here's likethe, here's the ranch,
here's my uncle as a cowboy in the '70s.
- It's real, and you're like-- It's right.
- And here's a photo of meat the stock show in Denver.
- Denver, yes.
- So growing up in Colorado,
there were elements of beingin the Filipino community here,
but also being around the Wild West-
(04:51):
- Because you grew up here.
- Born and raised in Denver, and so-
- Wow.
- The stock show wasalways present, there was-
- You went to Buffalo Billfor a school field trip?
- I may have, I know Lookout Mountain
and also Heritage Square-- Yes.
- Up in Golden, so there's like
this Victorian storybook,Old West amusement park.
And so there were alwayselements of the West,
(05:13):
but those two thingsnever converged, and so-
- This is that point of convergence.
- This is a point of convergence, yeah.
- Yeah.
- And so if we're to hold the project
that is right now holdingall of your attention,
can you name it for me?
- "We Are Coming."
- "We Are Coming."
And I have seen imagesfrom "We Are Coming"
and I have listened to you all sharing.
(05:35):
I have been digging inthe archives on my own.
I've been researchingthe Filipino rough riders
at the start of the, wedon't wanna say show,
Buffalo Bill's-
- Wild West.- Wild West.
You have got me so lit.
I feel these indelibleimprints in just the three days
I have spent with this re-historing,
(05:56):
because it was always there you say,
but it's, then it got erased.
Talk to me about how youstart a project based
on things that aren't there,
and then how you bring them into being so
that they matter this muchto you and to your audiences.
- Yeah, that's my turn.
- It's interesting 'cause how long have
we been doing this project now?
(06:17):
Like, head-on, full-on three years, like-
- Two, three years.
- Three, yeah, and just going top speed.
I don't think we have a, wedon't have a back-burner speed.
- The cadence is always (fingers snapping)
- We're always on.
- Yeah we're always on.
And so it's, in some ways it's hard for me
to think back to that beginning moment.
I mean, I can remember that moment,
(06:37):
but in terms of just the barely there
to all the things we knownow and all the stories
that we're trying to both theorize as well
as reconstruct and understand, like,
it's a huge chasm between where we were
and where we are now.
- Thanks to you all.
- And thanks to them.- Yeah.
(06:58):
- Because they left-- Yes.
- Traces for us to find.
So, it started with their names.
- Yeah-- And-
- In the logbook or in the-
- Route book.
Well, that was one, yeah, um-hmm.
- Yeah, and what began with names turned
into human beings that had dimension.
We know their faces, we know their,
(07:19):
the shape of their bodies.
We know how they related to one another.
At least we have a sense ofthem being in a space together.
And I think it became important for us
to think of them as acollective, as a troop.
As a we-- Yeah.
- That was not singular.
So there's the American individualism
(07:39):
of the Buffalo Bill Cody who stands alone.
And we were interestedin what are the commons?
Jose Munoz's "Brown Commons,"
and like what are the relationalities
that they would have with each other?
And I feel you, you mentioned Erika,
(07:59):
that you have this deep imprint.
- Um-hmm.
- We have this, I don't know,I feel this incredible bond
with this group of eightFilipino performers
that they were brave,they were of interest-
- Oh, they stood up in front of audiences
who were harassing them.
- Oh yeah.
(08:20):
- Thousands of whitebodies hissing at them.
- Absolutely, at their opening show
in 1899, Madison Square Garden,
a crowd of tens of thousands of people-
- Two shows a day.
- Two shows a day fortwo and a half weeks.
- While there's violence overseas.
- While there's, not justnot just any violence,
a war with the Philippines.
(08:40):
- With the Philippines.- Yes.
- Yeah, and so those audiencesapplauded every single troop.
But when the Filipinos walked into
that arena, it was a chorus of hisses.
And so, to stand there and stand tall-
- Yeah.
- And do it repeatedly.
- And do it repeatedly.
They, they were brave.
(09:01):
- Yeah.
- And so a lot of this project is
about kind of honoringtheir place in the world.
- Yes.
- I think, yeah, I thinkthat's absolutely correct.
I mean, I can't, I mean, Ithink Emmanuel has articulated
that really well.
I mean, one thing I alwaysjoke with him about this,
can I say it?- Go.
- Are you sure?- Okay, is that-
(09:22):
- I love that you know. (laughing)
- I mean, part of it is like,
we've been with thiscollective for so long,
we feel a real generosity that, I mean,
that their stories have been shared
with us as much as we can find them.
And I often will half jokingly say
(09:45):
that in some ways they're leading us,
like, that there's a component
that we found so manyneedles in so many haystacks,
that it, the coincidence seems,
it doesn't seem believable as coincidence.
- Yeah, I have chills just-- Have chills.
- Yeah, I'm feeling with that, yeah.
- We often feel like, I can't believe
(10:05):
we just found this, or welearned this, or we know this,
or we saw this because that, I mean,
when you do it once, okay.- Yeah.
- When you do it twice.- Yeah.
- Okay, when you've dodone it as many times
as we've done it with following a
barely there breadcrumbtrail, it seems otherworldly.
(10:26):
- And it feels that when I look at the way
you two look at one another,
when you say that we're tryingto bring the we into it.
And so it did take a we,also, to come together
so that there could be newkind of family generated.
- Oh yeah, I think it, I think it has to,
it had to be that way, I don't think,
we each had, the ways wecame into this project,
(10:47):
started off somewhat separate paths.
But of course then we refound each other
and we're like, "Hey, didyou blah, blah, blah?"
And I mean, I was like, "Hey, did?"
Yes, I did this sort of thing.
And we're like, "Hey, let's work together.
"Let's do, or let's digit a little bit together."
And since that point wehave been not been able
to unstick ourselves on this project.
- I love how that stickinessthough, what it does
(11:09):
for supporting maybe theaudacity of a question
or why am I following this breadcrumb?
I remember the first timewhen I was doing research
as an undergrad and I lookedat the names under a photo.
And I was meant to look at Martha Graham,
that's who it was pointing to.
But I saw Lillian Gish andLouise Brooks, and I was like,
silent screen actresses?
What are they all doing in there?
And it started this wholetrajectory of research for me.
(11:30):
And how do you all inspireand create that kind
of like, showing of trust about the small,
almost invisible breadcrumbs,
especially when you're looking at worlds
that can be erased froma Western perspective.
How do you inspire that in others?
How is this project doing that?
I'd love to just hear about that
because it can feel like youcan brush breadcrumbs away-
(11:50):
- Uh-huh.- Or-
- Right.
- And you can go deeply after them.
- Right.
- I mean, I think there aretwo ways to think about that.
One is we started where we are.
And so rather than trying to come up
with a question or come upwith a project or something,
we thought aboutColorado, we're both here,
we're thinking aboutFilipino-ness in the West.
(12:12):
And it kind of led us,there was a curiosity,
and so it couldn't have started with,
"We are going to study this or that."
It was a curiosityabout the world based on
where we are and, and who we are.
- Yes.
- And so thinking about the documents,
it's through a lens of our own history,
(12:35):
our own experience, and leaving it open.
- Yeah.
- Which is terrifyingand really thrilling.
- It's totally terrifying.
- It is, it is.
But what's remarkable is anytime we,
anytime we think we might've, okay,
maybe we've exhaustedthis path or maybe we've,
it just doesn't get-
- We should stop talking about this.
(12:55):
- No.- No.
- Well, not even just that, just like,
the different pathwaysthat one could take-
- Like this a dead end.
- We're like, this is a dead end
and then it's all of asudden not a dead end.
- I love this, becauseI think also so often
we wanna jump to what's kindof the sexy thesis or headline,
but what you are not jumping to,
but you also are pointingto, is on these marquees
in "We Are Coming."
(13:16):
You are putting up pretty flashy,
not footnotes, butheadliners on these marquees.
I'd love to hear about that.
How did it feel right togo to this visual art piece
of it now and this headlinemarquee leading role
without knowing maybe how youwanna tell the whole story,
about how this part of thestory needed a marquee?
(13:36):
- I think it, when we have,
if anybody does anydigging in Buffalo Bill,
you'll see that that WildWest show was just replete
with ephemera, like,beautiful posters done
by the best graphic artists out
of the best lithographystudios of the time.
I mean, just astonishing work.
(13:57):
Beautiful work, right?
And the imagery is everything really,
I'm sure there will beBuffalo Bill scholars
who will say something else.
And I don't allege to bea Buffalo Bill scholar,
but just serving all of that stuff.
The primary, the spectacle was
(14:19):
with a lot of differentcharacters in the show.
But people came forBuffalo Bill's name, right?
They came for thatcharacter and then they came
for that character in concert with other,
sort of other troops in the performance.
They came for, just hisemceeing, the whole,
like the whole thingthat was Buffalo Bill,
the mythology that was Buffalo Bill.
(14:41):
- And was the wild West.- And was the wild West.
So the posters and theephemera all sort of circulate
around that, the centrality ofBuffalo Bill as a character.
And so we were justinterested in that inversion.
And when you think also aboutBuffalo Bill's Wild West,
is in some ways the, it'skind of the, is a predecessor
(15:02):
to kind of later cinemaof the American West.
Like a lot of those narratives
in the Wild West show find, yes,
they point back to sortof those early films
and then later films andwhether they're like acceptance
or rejection or whatever.
It's the same kind ofcircular narratives, yes.
So, that then took us to theaters and,
(15:23):
and thinking about, okay, what if you-
- Oh, I love that, thathelps us jump to the marquee.
- The marquee.
And then also the idea, I mean,
"We Are Coming," ends up,having a really actually much,
much more rich, I think,and Emmanuel can do a
really great job sort oftalking about the richness
of "We Are Coming," but itstarts from an early poster
of Buffalo Bill, where he'sso famous at this point
(15:47):
when he's touring, thathe can have a poster
that appears in a city and it just says,
has a portrait, a medallionportrait of Buffalo Bill,
a herd of stampedingbison in the background.
And all it says is, "I am coming," it's-
- Is this what CoachPrime is doing right now?
- We coming?
- We coming.- We coming.
- We think that he's-
- I don't know, I don't know,I've wondered, I have no idea.
(16:07):
But I think it's justan interesting overlap.
- Yeah.
- But anyhow, so-
- But this was posturingthat would, we would've seen-
- Yeah, yeah, so all the,
anytime before BuffaloBill's Wild West would enter
into wherever it would do its shows,
there would be an advance team of people
who would plaster the townswith all the advertising
(16:28):
to sell tickets.
- But you wouldn't evenhave to say what it was.
- You wouldn't have to say, right.
And you could have a poster
that just had Buffalo Bill's portrait,
a stampeding herd of bisonand the words, "I am coming."
- And people would comefrom near and far to go
to those shows.- Oh yeah.
- So the parades outsideof the show would draw 20,
(16:50):
30,000 people.- That many people?
- Yeah, and so-
- Into small towns?
- Oh yeah, from surrounding communities.
- They'd take the train in,
they'd report in the newspaperthat they were going,
afterwards, they'd report that they went.
So these were huge public events
that were for entertainment,but they also served
another purpose, whichwas to educate the masses
(17:12):
about world politics.
And so there were people forthe first time saw Filipinos.
- As quote, unquote, Filipinos.
- As Filipinos, and so the, "I am coming,"
we've inverted it to think about the we,
to focus on their namesas not on the edges
(17:33):
or the periphery-- Yes.
- But to put them front and center,
their names in lights,to have the neon glow.
The, like, what's the-
- The materiality of that marquee.
And then also there's the piece of working
with the theaters that who then,
they become interpreters of that history,
just by the fact ofinstalling those names.
(17:55):
Because that is happening on the side
while people ask, "What's happening?"
- Yeah, "Who's coming?"
- Who's coming, whatever, and so-
- So it starts a dialogue.- Yes.
- So there isn't thatyou walk into the theater
and then you see-- There's nothing, no-
- No, there's nothing happened.
- Yeah, the-
- It happened.
- Yes, the marquee-- Is.
- The performative aspectof it, all that is the work.
(18:16):
- Is the work-- Yeah.
- Is the putting up of thesign and the sign and the-
- And the de-installation.
I mean, that-- And the de-installation.
- Yeah, that happens also.
- And the questions that come up.
And that's what's so thrilling, right?
- Yeah.
- Is that the questions come up.
And not only that, that is so thrilling.
It's so many layersand that you are trying
to deliver on a past that...
(18:37):
- Yeah and to have, Yumi was talking
about the working with thestaff members of the theaters.
They need to slow down.
Like, we watched themlook at the piece of paper
to make sure they got the spelling right.
And so it's not just putting up Joe.
Like, they-
(18:58):
- Ysidora with a Y.
- Right.
- They needed to study andlike, what does it mean
to have, I wanna say an unfamiliar name,
but it draws attention to the process.
- Yeah.
- And that drawing ofattention to process is
what you two are allabout in your own work,
in your human lives, in this relationship
and in this research.
When I think about drawingattention to process,
(19:19):
in my own experience, itmakes me also process,
my life story comes back.
So you all have life story in this.
Can you talk to meabout your relationships
to the Philippines wherethey are really similar,
that you both know yes, that food and yes,
that holiday or yes, thatparticular way of aunting,
and then ways that itfeels really different,
(19:40):
and you're constantly complexifying
for one another your family story.
- I mean, we check backand forth with each other
because even though we both have grown up
as second-generation Filipino Americans,
and we can share, wecan look at each other
and wink and know certain things.
We also have also vastlydifferent experiences
(20:00):
from our upbringing.
So oftentimes we'll talk andsay, "Oh, blah, blah, blah."
Do you remember that?
And Emmanuel might have atotally different experience
with this very same thing.
And that likely, that diversity-
- That's healthy for theresearch and the lens as well.
- Right, and likely sortof reminds us that even
(20:22):
if this troop was together,
they also came from extraordinarily,
likely different walks oflife and how they found
themselves in this performance spectacle
for the time that they found themselves,
they didn't come all from the same place.
And they likely didn'thave the same backgrounds.
- When, coincidence and surpriseis part of the magic glue
(20:45):
of you two.
And you said it can'tmaybe be coincidence now.
It's like, almost intervention.
- Um-hmm
- What do you, do you have a ritual?
When do you celebrate?
'Cause you're havingso many of these, like,
do you stop and say, no,we have to celebrate,
this is amazing.
And what does that look like?
And/or does that justmean, let's do more work?
(21:08):
- I don't know ifthere's an end point yet,
like, where we've paused and celebrated.
Because when it goes up,we do, like, for example,
we've done two iterations of"We Are Coming" on the street.
So one in Boulder and one in Cody.
It's those moments when the lights go on
and there's a sense of awe.
And not the metaphoric lights, not the-
(21:29):
- The literal-
- A light, like youactually, you see a sign,
not just, you saw a spiritual sign.
- Right.
- You see a sign.- Yeah.
- The lights go on.
- There's a buzz.
There's like the buzz of the neon.
It's a electrifying.- Yeah.
- And so there were moments of pause-
- Yeah.
- In terms of saying, wow,something just happened.
- Yeah.
(21:49):
- And so I don't knowif it's a celebration,
but it's that feelingof being in a moment.
- Yes.- Together.
- Yeah.- Exactly.
And I think what wealso always remember is
that neither of us are doing this alone.
We're always doing it withthat troop of Filipinos.
- Yeah.- Right?
So we have to have modestyin the face of that.
(22:10):
And I think we always do.
So when we, if, when thelights go on, it's not-
- They don't go on to you.
- No, it's this sort ofbringing back into the present,
groups of people who have been overlooked
or forgotten and making them remembered.
There's a tradition, Imean, there's a tradition
(22:31):
in the Philippines,like in many countries,
where you go to thecemetery every year and you,
it's a lot-- You bring food.
- And you bring food.
You, you commune-
- Stay there overnight.- Yes.
Yeah, you hang out withthe dead relatives,
the living relatives you connect with,
relatives you didn't know you had,
but they live in the same community.
It's alive.
- It's alive.- It's alive.
- You talk to them.
- Even in a moment of death, it's alive.
(22:51):
- Yes, so, I mean, I'm not saying
that this is a totallyanalogous situation,
but it is in that regardthat it's not just
about Emmanuel and mewhen those lights go on,
or when we do this project.
- And it's not just about the past.
- Right.- Because we're also thinking
about the we,
that was them-- Um-hmm.
(23:11):
- The we that is us and the wethat could be in the future.
- Um-hmm.
- So there's a, the possibilityof a future community
that is yet to be realized.
It's something that is unfolding
and that we don't know what it is yet.
- That's the thing that I,in knowing your work first,
before getting to know yours,
(23:32):
and I talk to you bothin my pre-show questions
about this idea of pointing towards.
I really see it in your work,
both kind of literally and spiritually.
'cause you do visual artwork with signs
and maps on hands, and arrows to places,
but then they point you to places
that you don't kindaexpect, but pointing to.
(23:54):
In your work, do you feel this sense
of kind of pointing towards,or is that just kind of
in the audience or seat of it?
Or are you trying, like you say,
pointing towards a betterfuture, a better ancestry?
Or what are these arrows?
Is this a true analysis?
Am I, does this feel realfor you, what I'm seeing?
Or can you say it in abetter way, with regard
(24:14):
to the signs and the pointing,,as you point to Emmanuel?
- I mean, I think it's about a we-ness,
as existing in a world thatwas maybe not meant for us.
And when we were talkingabout kind of the hostilities
that they experienced,they found ways to manage
and cope and thrive in those spaces.
(24:35):
And I think this is aboutthe Filipino Rough Riders,
but it's also about aworld of racial inequality.
- Um-hmm.- and like what does it mean
to deal with white dominated institutions
and like, not just the Wild West shows,
but museums and universities,
and all these other spacesthat we move through.
- Archives- Archives, absolutely.
And so it's driven by thinkingabout ways that this could be
(25:01):
otherwise, and it could be something else.
- Right.
- And so that there's a lotof possibility in the we are.
And so it's also aboutthe anticipatory logics.
- Yes.
- That it is not now,but it's about to be.
- Yeah.
- And there's always thisanticipation of what could be
(25:22):
or what is coming.
And I think that in many ways captures-
- And who constitutes the we?
We often talk about thattoo, because anytime
you go across a marquee,I think, I know I do it,
is you kind of read it outloud and you read it out,
is it a, you read it to yourself, right?
Or you read it out loud.
And so what happens whenyou read we are coming,
(25:42):
becomes who's the we, and that which we,
so the linguistic elements, are really,
as much as there's the sortof the tactile and the formal,
we are also very much like, invested
in the language component of it.
- So we're trying to rewrite that history.
- Yeah.
- Because there are go-to-- Narratives.
- Narratives and this one bucks that,
(26:02):
it does something else, and-
- I like that you say bucks that.
- Yeah.
Because you don't use metaphor very often.
- Not very often.
- I know, so I'm gonnacall you on that one.
'cause I could already tell aswe were chatting in the lot,
I'm like, uh-huh-ohEmmanuel is not gonna be
with the metaphor in this.
When you say the lights came on,
you mean you flipped a switch.
- We flipped a switch.
- (laughing) I love it, okay.
So we're gonna do somethinga little different
(26:23):
on the quick and dirty today.
We're gonna play, like theold '70s, "Newlywed Game."
But we're gonna try to, youhave been asked questions
and you have written youranswers down in secrecy.
And we're gonna see how this goes,
to see how really stucktogether are the brains
of Emmanuel and Yumi, Yumi and Emmanuel.
- They're stuck.- They're stuck.
And if I can read yourhandwriting, this is, okay.
(26:45):
All right, so we askedearlier the two moments
that you knew "We Are Coming"was on the right track.
And what did you think the other,
do you even remember this question?
- I don't even remember this question.
- Okay (laughing) the, so Emmanuel-
- Do we have an aah button,just when we get it wrong?
Aah, like this?
- Wrong.
- Okay so Emmanuel saysthat Yumi would say
(27:05):
when the neon lights went on and when
we saw the posters in Cody.
- Yeah, I guess I didn't, okay.
We had a lot of moments, but yes.
- Yes.- I will go yes,
but I don't, yes, I will go with that.
- Okay, number one.
Oh, this was it for me.
The, the Guapo photo ofGeronimo, of Geronimo?
- Oh, yeah, he was looking back at us.
(27:25):
- Yeah.
- You felt that.- Oh, yeah.
- And the first installation,
when the lights wenton to Boulder Theater.
- Yeah, ding, ding,ding, ding, ding, boom.
High five, (hands clapping) loving it.
Okay, number two, this is about snacks.
This is about how do you keepit going for your research?
And I'm gonna go withfor, this is about Yumi,
dried mango and coffee.
(27:46):
- Oh yeah, that's true.
He sees that in my studio all the time.
It's definitely there.
- So I know it's true.
- Okay he knows it's true.
- Anything, I don't knowhow to say that, they're-
- Ube and Hopia?
- Yeah, yep.
- That's also true.
- Ding, ding, ding.
Okay, high five, high five, winning.
Okay, number three.
This is about the caffeinatedbeverage that you need
that's gonna, that'sgonna like, make you buzz,
(28:07):
which is not literal, to the signs.
And we're gonna go with black coffee.
- I like my milk.
- And milk, aah.
Okay, and then tea and water.
- That's correct.
- Yeah that is correct, ding ding, ding.
You get one point for that.
Okay number four, the question was,
who are the people who are annoyed
(28:28):
and tired of hearing aboutthe Filipino Rough Riders?
- They're gonna call in because we didn't,
I didn't name anybody.
- Okay, yeah, Yumi saidno one, and no one.
- I was gonna say no one, but-
- You actually came up with a name?
- Those in your close proximity.
- My son.- Yeah, your son.
- That's there, that's the son.
- Javi?
Okay and then, is itJose or Jesse, and Jose?
(28:49):
- Jose.- A little annoyed.
- I think Javi, yes.
I think, yeah, 'causehe knows all the names.
- Yeah.
- He can tell you all the names of the-
- Does he have a, he has a T-shirt.
You need to get T-shirts.
- Oh, we could get t-shirts.
You could do merch.
- Yeah, you could, I'mall about the merch, okay.
All right, that one I'mgonna give you like,
a half a point.
Okay, all right. the next question,
this is about, oh, places that you,
(29:11):
if you could like havea conceptual art project
anywhere in the world, where would you go?
And Emmanuel said, "Oh, it'son the move, it travels."
And then it went, okay,so it can stay in a place.
One that could stay-
- It won't stay in place.- It won't stay in place.
So, it's gotta be on the move, right?
- Yeah, yeah.
- So there's not place.- No.
- Not one place.- No.
- Agree card, yes, ding, ding, ding.
- Okay, yeah, everywhere.- Yeah.
(29:32):
- Ding, ding, ding win, winning.
- Correct.- Okay, and then-
- I'm surprised at howmany we've actually gotten.
- No, I'm not surprised.
I'm really, okay now this is how I knew
that Emmanuel doesn't dometaphor, anthropomorphics,
because I was like, if you could hear
from a piece of ephemera and he is like,
you mean here, like a cassette tape?
(laughing)
And I was like, no.
Like, but I'm gonna love this question.
So if you could hear,
(29:53):
what would be the piece of ephemera
that would like you speak to you-
- Yes.
- Non literally, as you held it, and so-
- I know the exact one,but I can't say it.
- You can't say it 'causewe can't share yet?
- Yes, but I can do it generally.
- Okay, so I may knowthis, one of the saddles.
- Oh, for me?- For you.
- Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
That yes.- Is that true, dinging?
- Yes, I'm like obsessed with saddles.
(30:13):
- Obsessed, okay.
- And then photos of some ofthe Filipino Rough Riders.
- Yes.- Yes.
- But we can't say the exact one on TV?
- No.
- I'm not on TV, this is a podcast.
- Can't say it.
- Can't say it, can we sayit and then bleep it out?
- No. (laughing)
- How about this?
Okay, t's this one beep, this one.
- It's the one rrring.
- Okay.
- It'll just keep the audience hanging.
(30:34):
- I know, it was like whenwe talked about Casa Bonita,
you couldn't talk about Casa Bonita.
- Right.
- Here's the question that I want to see
if you two can do collectively.
On the podcast we put a blessing
or a speaking forward to the ancestors
or a sending off intothe, that starts with and.
What would your and-
- I don't know, I justsaid you when you were,
went and visited one of 'em,(speaking in foreign language)
(30:56):
- Yeah?
- What does that translate to?
- I mean, that's a blessing.
But it's not a blessing,That's a more like,
let me please, let it beokay that I'm walking here
to our ancestor.
- And let it-
- Yes, let it be okay that we're here,
we don't mean any harm.
- We have been in conversation with them.
(31:17):
- Yes.
- And they've made themselves present.
- Yes.
- So we have to say (speakingin foreign language)
all the time, I think.
- It's our gratitude to them.- Yes.
- That was Yumi andEmmanuel on "The Ampersand."
For more on the Filipino Rough Riders
(31:37):
and their installation, "We AreComing," see our show notes.
"The Ampersand" is a production
of the College of Arts and Sciences
at the University of Colorado Boulder.
It is written and produced by me,
Erika Randall, and Tim Grassley.
If there are people you'dlike us to interview
on "The Ampersand," do please email us
at asinfo@colorado.edu.
(32:00):
Our theme music was composedand performed by Nelson Walker,
and the episodes are recordedat Interplay Recording,
in Boulder, Colorado.
I'm Erika Randall andthis is "The Ampersand."
(electronic music)
(typewriter keys striking)
- A and S.
(typewriter carriage returning, dinging)
(crowd conversing)
- I imagine standing outside the Museum
of Contemporary Art in Denver,
waiting anxiously to see Yumi Janairo Roth
(00:21):
and Emmanuel David'sart installation titled,
"We Are Coming."
It's September 29th,and the crackle of neon
of an old movie theatermarquee sparks to life.
Yumi and Emmanuel look on at the names
of three original Filipino Rough Riders
from the Buffalo Bills 1890s Wild West,
once invisiblized, and now abright topography of lights.
(00:42):
As the crowd whispers thenames Ysidora, Geronimo, Felix,
I imagine the research twistsand turns the breadcrumbs
like boulders to Emmanuel and Yumi,
critical to uncoveringthe stories of the erased.
I imagine the voices of thesebrave performers leading
them on and into the exhibitthat rebodies the past.
(crowd conversing)
(01:07):
- Right, right, right.
Okay, wait, I'm asking, nowthat light is blinding me.
Is there any way to-
- Yeah.- Yeah, there you go, thanks.
- I was like, oh my God.- Oh, that's great.
- I can't imagine a timeYumi and Emmanuel besties,
who didn't text all day, every day.
These two sit in conversationwith such delight
and urgency, that it's impossible
to imagine them not connected.
(01:28):
What you don't know, dear listeners,
is that they asked torearrange our recording studio,
so they could look at one another
and pass silent dialogues asfluently as those shared aloud.
Their energy for making anduncovering is infectious,
as is the way they and together as humans.
I can't imagine a moment when they're not
in constant conversation,and thank goodness
we don't have to.
(guitar music)
(01:58):
- On "The Ampersand," wecall this bringing together
of the impossible, the alchemy of anding.
Together we'll hear stories ofhumans who imagine and create
by colliding their interests.
Rather than thinking of andas a simple conjunction,
in that "Conjunction Junction" kinda way,
we will hear stories of people who see and
as a verb, a way to speak the beautiful
when you intentionally let the soft animal
(02:20):
of your body love what it loves.
As St. Mary Oliver asks,
"What is it you plan todo with your one wild
"and precious life?"
Oh, I love this question.
When I'm mothering,creating and collaborating,
it reminds me to replace a singular idea
of what I think I should become
with a full sensoryverb about experiencing.
(02:41):
I'm Erika Randall,
and this is Emmanuel Davidand Yumi Janairo Roth
on "The Ampersand."
- As a form of background,people don't know this,
but the Philippines hasa long ranching history,
long cowboy culture or koboy culture.
(03:04):
And I come from that.
It's hard to believe thisactually has a connection
to that, but it does.
- It's hard for you tobelieve for me seeing you
in this hoodie.- You, me, not so much you.
- You in this Nike hoodie.- Me, not so much.
As I always joke, and I've told Emmanuel,
I told a lot of people whenI graduated from a college,
my grandfather came tomy college graduation
and he came and he gave me a cow.
(03:27):
I got a cow for graduationbecause a cow begets cattle.
And cattle is wealth.
My cow was stolen within the next year,
but that is beside thepoint (all laughing)
that was, I was cattlerustled off an island.
- You were rustled off an island?
- Yeah, because cattle,cattle ranching happens
on islands, right, in the Philippines.
So the point is that we,so we've been talking
(03:48):
about rodeos that happenedin the Philippines
and we're planning on going to one.
We were gonna go to itlast year, but just in the-
- In the Philippines?- In the Philippines.
We're gonna go next year.
Well, just becausethere's this whole erasure
of like kind of whatthis culture looks like
outside of the American West.
It's the story of the AmericanWest is way more complex
than the sort of the generalnarrative that's often shared.
(04:08):
And so yesterday Emmanuel sent me a photo
of a family friend, or was it?
Yes, wearing a stack of cowboy hats.
Must have been 10.- Yeah.
- Do you remember this photo being taken?
- It was, it was shared with me because
we were talking about this rodeo.
- Yeah.
- And redistributing thosehats to the folks at the rodeo.
(04:30):
And I share photos, like old photos.
Like, see, here's likethe, here's the ranch,
here's my uncle as a cowboy in the '70s.
- It's real, and you're like-- It's right.
- And here's a photo of meat the stock show in Denver.
- Denver, yes.
- So growing up in Colorado,
there were elements of beingin the Filipino community here,
but also being around the Wild West-
(04:51):
- Because you grew up here.
- Born and raised in Denver, and so-
- Wow.
- The stock show wasalways present, there was-
- You went to Buffalo Billfor a school field trip?
- I may have, I know Lookout Mountain
and also Heritage Square-- Yes.
- Up in Golden, so there's like
this Victorian storybook,Old West amusement park.
And so there were alwayselements of the West,
(05:13):
but those two thingsnever converged, and so-
- This is that point of convergence.
- This is a point of convergence, yeah.
- Yeah.
- And so if we're to hold the project
that is right now holdingall of your attention,
can you name it for me?
- "We Are Coming."
- "We Are Coming."
And I have seen imagesfrom "We Are Coming"
and I have listened to you all sharing.
(05:35):
I have been digging inthe archives on my own.
I've been researchingthe Filipino rough riders
at the start of the, wedon't wanna say show,
Buffalo Bill's-
- Wild West.- Wild West.
You have got me so lit.
I feel these indelibleimprints in just the three days
I have spent with this re-historing,
(05:56):
because it was always there you say,
but it's, then it got erased.
Talk to me about how youstart a project based
on things that aren't there,
and then how you bring them into being so
that they matter this muchto you and to your audiences.
- Yeah, that's my turn.
- It's interesting 'cause how long have
we been doing this project now?
(06:17):
Like, head-on, full-on three years, like-
- Two, three years.
- Three, yeah, and just going top speed.
I don't think we have a, wedon't have a back-burner speed.
- The cadence is always (fingers snapping)
- We're always on.
- Yeah we're always on.
And so it's, in some ways it's hard for me
to think back to that beginning moment.
I mean, I can remember that moment,
(06:37):
but in terms of just the barely there
to all the things we knownow and all the stories
that we're trying to both theorize as well
as reconstruct and understand, like,
it's a huge chasm between where we were
and where we are now.
- Thanks to you all.
- And thanks to them.- Yeah.
(06:58):
- Because they left-- Yes.
- Traces for us to find.
So, it started with their names.
- Yeah-- And-
- In the logbook or in the-
- Route book.
Well, that was one, yeah, um-hmm.
- Yeah, and what began with names turned
into human beings that had dimension.
We know their faces, we know their,
(07:19):
the shape of their bodies.
We know how they related to one another.
At least we have a sense ofthem being in a space together.
And I think it became important for us
to think of them as acollective, as a troop.
As a we-- Yeah.
- That was not singular.
So there's the American individualism
(07:39):
of the Buffalo Bill Cody who stands alone.
And we were interestedin what are the commons?
Jose Munoz's "Brown Commons,"
and like what are the relationalities
that they would have with each other?
And I feel you, you mentioned Erika,
(07:59):
that you have this deep imprint.
- Um-hmm.
- We have this, I don't know,I feel this incredible bond
with this group of eightFilipino performers
that they were brave,they were of interest-
- Oh, they stood up in front of audiences
who were harassing them.
- Oh yeah.
(08:20):
- Thousands of whitebodies hissing at them.
- Absolutely, at their opening show
in 1899, Madison Square Garden,
a crowd of tens of thousands of people-
- Two shows a day.
- Two shows a day fortwo and a half weeks.
- While there's violence overseas.
- While there's, not justnot just any violence,
a war with the Philippines.
(08:40):
- With the Philippines.- Yes.
- Yeah, and so those audiencesapplauded every single troop.
But when the Filipinos walked into
that arena, it was a chorus of hisses.
And so, to stand there and stand tall-
- Yeah.
- And do it repeatedly.
- And do it repeatedly.
They, they were brave.
(09:01):
- Yeah.
- And so a lot of this project is
about kind of honoringtheir place in the world.
- Yes.
- I think, yeah, I thinkthat's absolutely correct.
I mean, I can't, I mean, Ithink Emmanuel has articulated
that really well.
I mean, one thing I alwaysjoke with him about this,
can I say it?- Go.
- Are you sure?- Okay, is that-
(09:22):
- I love that you know. (laughing)
- I mean, part of it is like,
we've been with thiscollective for so long,
we feel a real generosity that, I mean,
that their stories have been shared
with us as much as we can find them.
And I often will half jokingly say
(09:45):
that in some ways they're leading us,
like, that there's a component
that we found so manyneedles in so many haystacks,
that it, the coincidence seems,
it doesn't seem believable as coincidence.
- Yeah, I have chills just-- Have chills.
- Yeah, I'm feeling with that, yeah.
- We often feel like, I can't believe
(10:05):
we just found this, or welearned this, or we know this,
or we saw this because that, I mean,
when you do it once, okay.- Yeah.
- When you do it twice.- Yeah.
- Okay, when you've dodone it as many times
as we've done it with following a
barely there breadcrumbtrail, it seems otherworldly.
(10:26):
- And it feels that when I look at the way
you two look at one another,
when you say that we're tryingto bring the we into it.
And so it did take a we,also, to come together
so that there could be newkind of family generated.
- Oh yeah, I think it, I think it has to,
it had to be that way, I don't think,
we each had, the ways wecame into this project,
(10:47):
started off somewhat separate paths.
But of course then we refound each other
and we're like, "Hey, didyou blah, blah, blah?"
And I mean, I was like, "Hey, did?"
Yes, I did this sort of thing.
And we're like, "Hey, let's work together.
"Let's do, or let's digit a little bit together."
And since that point wehave been not been able
to unstick ourselves on this project.
- I love how that stickinessthough, what it does
(11:09):
for supporting maybe theaudacity of a question
or why am I following this breadcrumb?
I remember the first timewhen I was doing research
as an undergrad and I lookedat the names under a photo.
And I was meant to look at Martha Graham,
that's who it was pointing to.
But I saw Lillian Gish andLouise Brooks, and I was like,
silent screen actresses?
What are they all doing in there?
And it started this wholetrajectory of research for me.
(11:30):
And how do you all inspireand create that kind
of like, showing of trust about the small,
almost invisible breadcrumbs,
especially when you're looking at worlds
that can be erased froma Western perspective.
How do you inspire that in others?
How is this project doing that?
I'd love to just hear about that
because it can feel like youcan brush breadcrumbs away-
(11:50):
- Uh-huh.- Or-
- Right.
- And you can go deeply after them.
- Right.
- I mean, I think there aretwo ways to think about that.
One is we started where we are.
And so rather than trying to come up
with a question or come upwith a project or something,
we thought aboutColorado, we're both here,
we're thinking aboutFilipino-ness in the West.
(12:12):
And it kind of led us,there was a curiosity,
and so it couldn't have started with,
"We are going to study this or that."
It was a curiosityabout the world based on
where we are and, and who we are.
- Yes.
- And so thinking about the documents,
it's through a lens of our own history,
(12:35):
our own experience, and leaving it open.
- Yeah.
- Which is terrifyingand really thrilling.
- It's totally terrifying.
- It is, it is.
But what's remarkable is anytime we,
anytime we think we might've, okay,
maybe we've exhaustedthis path or maybe we've,
it just doesn't get-
- We should stop talking about this.
(12:55):
- No.- No.
- Well, not even just that, just like,
the different pathwaysthat one could take-
- Like this a dead end.
- We're like, this is a dead end
and then it's all of asudden not a dead end.
- I love this, becauseI think also so often
we wanna jump to what's kindof the sexy thesis or headline,
but what you are not jumping to,
but you also are pointingto, is on these marquees
in "We Are Coming."
(13:16):
You are putting up pretty flashy,
not footnotes, butheadliners on these marquees.
I'd love to hear about that.
How did it feel right togo to this visual art piece
of it now and this headlinemarquee leading role
without knowing maybe how youwanna tell the whole story,
about how this part of thestory needed a marquee?
(13:36):
- I think it, when we have,
if anybody does anydigging in Buffalo Bill,
you'll see that that WildWest show was just replete
with ephemera, like,beautiful posters done
by the best graphic artists out
of the best lithographystudios of the time.
I mean, just astonishing work.
(13:57):
Beautiful work, right?
And the imagery is everything really,
I'm sure there will beBuffalo Bill scholars
who will say something else.
And I don't allege to bea Buffalo Bill scholar,
but just serving all of that stuff.
The primary, the spectacle was
(14:19):
with a lot of differentcharacters in the show.
But people came forBuffalo Bill's name, right?
They came for thatcharacter and then they came
for that character in concert with other,
sort of other troops in the performance.
They came for, just hisemceeing, the whole,
like the whole thingthat was Buffalo Bill,
the mythology that was Buffalo Bill.
(14:41):
- And was the wild West.- And was the wild West.
So the posters and theephemera all sort of circulate
around that, the centrality ofBuffalo Bill as a character.
And so we were justinterested in that inversion.
And when you think also aboutBuffalo Bill's Wild West,
is in some ways the, it'skind of the, is a predecessor
(15:02):
to kind of later cinemaof the American West.
Like a lot of those narratives
in the Wild West show find, yes,
they point back to sortof those early films
and then later films andwhether they're like acceptance
or rejection or whatever.
It's the same kind ofcircular narratives, yes.
So, that then took us to theaters and,
(15:23):
and thinking about, okay, what if you-
- Oh, I love that, thathelps us jump to the marquee.
- The marquee.
And then also the idea, I mean,
"We Are Coming," ends up,having a really actually much,
much more rich, I think,and Emmanuel can do a
really great job sort oftalking about the richness
of "We Are Coming," but itstarts from an early poster
of Buffalo Bill, where he'sso famous at this point
(15:47):
when he's touring, thathe can have a poster
that appears in a city and it just says,
has a portrait, a medallionportrait of Buffalo Bill,
a herd of stampedingbison in the background.
And all it says is, "I am coming," it's-
- Is this what CoachPrime is doing right now?
- We coming?
- We coming.- We coming.
- We think that he's-
- I don't know, I don't know,I've wondered, I have no idea.
(16:07):
But I think it's justan interesting overlap.
- Yeah.
- But anyhow, so-
- But this was posturingthat would, we would've seen-
- Yeah, yeah, so all the,
anytime before BuffaloBill's Wild West would enter
into wherever it would do its shows,
there would be an advance team of people
who would plaster the townswith all the advertising
(16:28):
to sell tickets.
- But you wouldn't evenhave to say what it was.
- You wouldn't have to say, right.
And you could have a poster
that just had Buffalo Bill's portrait,
a stampeding herd of bisonand the words, "I am coming."
- And people would comefrom near and far to go
to those shows.- Oh yeah.
- So the parades outsideof the show would draw 20,
(16:50):
30,000 people.- That many people?
- Yeah, and so-
- Into small towns?
- Oh yeah, from surrounding communities.
- They'd take the train in,
they'd report in the newspaperthat they were going,
afterwards, they'd report that they went.
So these were huge public events
that were for entertainment,but they also served
another purpose, whichwas to educate the masses
(17:12):
about world politics.
And so there were people forthe first time saw Filipinos.
- As quote, unquote, Filipinos.
- As Filipinos, and so the, "I am coming,"
we've inverted it to think about the we,
to focus on their namesas not on the edges
(17:33):
or the periphery-- Yes.
- But to put them front and center,
their names in lights,to have the neon glow.
The, like, what's the-
- The materiality of that marquee.
And then also there's the piece of working
with the theaters that who then,
they become interpreters of that history,
just by the fact ofinstalling those names.
(17:55):
Because that is happening on the side
while people ask, "What's happening?"
- Yeah, "Who's coming?"
- Who's coming, whatever, and so-
- So it starts a dialogue.- Yes.
- So there isn't thatyou walk into the theater
and then you see-- There's nothing, no-
- No, there's nothing happened.
- Yeah, the-
- It happened.
- Yes, the marquee-- Is.
- The performative aspectof it, all that is the work.
(18:16):
- Is the work-- Yeah.
- Is the putting up of thesign and the sign and the-
- And the de-installation.
I mean, that-- And the de-installation.
- Yeah, that happens also.
- And the questions that come up.
And that's what's so thrilling, right?
- Yeah.
- Is that the questions come up.
And not only that, that is so thrilling.
It's so many layersand that you are trying
to deliver on a past that...
(18:37):
- Yeah and to have, Yumi was talking
about the working with thestaff members of the theaters.
They need to slow down.
Like, we watched themlook at the piece of paper
to make sure they got the spelling right.
And so it's not just putting up Joe.
Like, they-
(18:58):
- Ysidora with a Y.
- Right.
- They needed to study andlike, what does it mean
to have, I wanna say an unfamiliar name,
but it draws attention to the process.
- Yeah.
- And that drawing ofattention to process is
what you two are allabout in your own work,
in your human lives, in this relationship
and in this research.
When I think about drawingattention to process,
(19:19):
in my own experience, itmakes me also process,
my life story comes back.
So you all have life story in this.
Can you talk to meabout your relationships
to the Philippines wherethey are really similar,
that you both know yes, that food and yes,
that holiday or yes, thatparticular way of aunting,
and then ways that itfeels really different,
(19:40):
and you're constantly complexifying
for one another your family story.
- I mean, we check backand forth with each other
because even though we both have grown up
as second-generation Filipino Americans,
and we can share, wecan look at each other
and wink and know certain things.
We also have also vastlydifferent experiences
(20:00):
from our upbringing.
So oftentimes we'll talk andsay, "Oh, blah, blah, blah."
Do you remember that?
And Emmanuel might have atotally different experience
with this very same thing.
And that likely, that diversity-
- That's healthy for theresearch and the lens as well.
- Right, and likely sortof reminds us that even
(20:22):
if this troop was together,
they also came from extraordinarily,
likely different walks oflife and how they found
themselves in this performance spectacle
for the time that they found themselves,
they didn't come all from the same place.
And they likely didn'thave the same backgrounds.
- When, coincidence and surpriseis part of the magic glue
(20:45):
of you two.
And you said it can'tmaybe be coincidence now.
It's like, almost intervention.
- Um-hmm
- What do you, do you have a ritual?
When do you celebrate?
'Cause you're havingso many of these, like,
do you stop and say, no,we have to celebrate,
this is amazing.
And what does that look like?
And/or does that justmean, let's do more work?
(21:08):
- I don't know ifthere's an end point yet,
like, where we've paused and celebrated.
Because when it goes up,we do, like, for example,
we've done two iterations of"We Are Coming" on the street.
So one in Boulder and one in Cody.
It's those moments when the lights go on
and there's a sense of awe.
And not the metaphoric lights, not the-
(21:29):
- The literal-
- A light, like youactually, you see a sign,
not just, you saw a spiritual sign.
- Right.
- You see a sign.- Yeah.
- The lights go on.
- There's a buzz.
There's like the buzz of the neon.
It's a electrifying.- Yeah.
- And so there were moments of pause-
- Yeah.
- In terms of saying, wow,something just happened.
- Yeah.
(21:49):
- And so I don't knowif it's a celebration,
but it's that feelingof being in a moment.
- Yes.- Together.
- Yeah.- Exactly.
And I think what wealso always remember is
that neither of us are doing this alone.
We're always doing it withthat troop of Filipinos.
- Yeah.- Right?
So we have to have modestyin the face of that.
(22:10):
And I think we always do.
So when we, if, when thelights go on, it's not-
- They don't go on to you.
- No, it's this sort ofbringing back into the present,
groups of people who have been overlooked
or forgotten and making them remembered.
There's a tradition, Imean, there's a tradition
(22:31):
in the Philippines,like in many countries,
where you go to thecemetery every year and you,
it's a lot-- You bring food.
- And you bring food.
You, you commune-
- Stay there overnight.- Yes.
Yeah, you hang out withthe dead relatives,
the living relatives you connect with,
relatives you didn't know you had,
but they live in the same community.
It's alive.
- It's alive.- It's alive.
- You talk to them.
- Even in a moment of death, it's alive.
(22:51):
- Yes, so, I mean, I'm not saying
that this is a totallyanalogous situation,
but it is in that regardthat it's not just
about Emmanuel and mewhen those lights go on,
or when we do this project.
- And it's not just about the past.
- Right.- Because we're also thinking
about the we,
that was them-- Um-hmm.
(23:11):
- The we that is us and the wethat could be in the future.
- Um-hmm.
- So there's a, the possibilityof a future community
that is yet to be realized.
It's something that is unfolding
and that we don't know what it is yet.
- That's the thing that I,in knowing your work first,
before getting to know yours,
(23:32):
and I talk to you bothin my pre-show questions
about this idea of pointing towards.
I really see it in your work,
both kind of literally and spiritually.
'cause you do visual artwork with signs
and maps on hands, and arrows to places,
but then they point you to places
that you don't kindaexpect, but pointing to.
(23:54):
In your work, do you feel this sense
of kind of pointing towards,or is that just kind of
in the audience or seat of it?
Or are you trying, like you say,
pointing towards a betterfuture, a better ancestry?
Or what are these arrows?
Is this a true analysis?
Am I, does this feel realfor you, what I'm seeing?
Or can you say it in abetter way, with regard
(24:14):
to the signs and the pointing,,as you point to Emmanuel?
- I mean, I think it's about a we-ness,
as existing in a world thatwas maybe not meant for us.
And when we were talkingabout kind of the hostilities
that they experienced,they found ways to manage
and cope and thrive in those spaces.
(24:35):
And I think this is aboutthe Filipino Rough Riders,
but it's also about aworld of racial inequality.
- Um-hmm.- and like what does it mean
to deal with white dominated institutions
and like, not just the Wild West shows,
but museums and universities,
and all these other spacesthat we move through.
- Archives- Archives, absolutely.
And so it's driven by thinkingabout ways that this could be
(25:01):
otherwise, and it could be something else.
- Right.
- And so that there's a lotof possibility in the we are.
And so it's also aboutthe anticipatory logics.
- Yes.
- That it is not now,but it's about to be.
- Yeah.
- And there's always thisanticipation of what could be
(25:22):
or what is coming.
And I think that in many ways captures-
- And who constitutes the we?
We often talk about thattoo, because anytime
you go across a marquee,I think, I know I do it,
is you kind of read it outloud and you read it out,
is it a, you read it to yourself, right?
Or you read it out loud.
And so what happens whenyou read we are coming,
(25:42):
becomes who's the we, and that which we,
so the linguistic elements, are really,
as much as there's the sortof the tactile and the formal,
we are also very much like, invested
in the language component of it.
- So we're trying to rewrite that history.
- Yeah.
- Because there are go-to-- Narratives.
- Narratives and this one bucks that,
(26:02):
it does something else, and-
- I like that you say bucks that.
- Yeah.
Because you don't use metaphor very often.
- Not very often.
- I know, so I'm gonnacall you on that one.
'cause I could already tell aswe were chatting in the lot,
I'm like, uh-huh-ohEmmanuel is not gonna be
with the metaphor in this.
When you say the lights came on,
you mean you flipped a switch.
- We flipped a switch.
- (laughing) I love it, okay.
So we're gonna do somethinga little different
(26:23):
on the quick and dirty today.
We're gonna play, like theold '70s, "Newlywed Game."
But we're gonna try to, youhave been asked questions
and you have written youranswers down in secrecy.
And we're gonna see how this goes,
to see how really stucktogether are the brains
of Emmanuel and Yumi, Yumi and Emmanuel.
- They're stuck.- They're stuck.
And if I can read yourhandwriting, this is, okay.
(26:45):
All right, so we askedearlier the two moments
that you knew "We Are Coming"was on the right track.
And what did you think the other,
do you even remember this question?
- I don't even remember this question.
- Okay (laughing) the, so Emmanuel-
- Do we have an aah button,just when we get it wrong?
Aah, like this?
- Wrong.
- Okay so Emmanuel saysthat Yumi would say
(27:05):
when the neon lights went on and when
we saw the posters in Cody.
- Yeah, I guess I didn't, okay.
We had a lot of moments, but yes.
- Yes.- I will go yes,
but I don't, yes, I will go with that.
- Okay, number one.
Oh, this was it for me.
The, the Guapo photo ofGeronimo, of Geronimo?
- Oh, yeah, he was looking back at us.
(27:25):
- Yeah.
- You felt that.- Oh, yeah.
- And the first installation,
when the lights wenton to Boulder Theater.
- Yeah, ding, ding,ding, ding, ding, boom.
High five, (hands clapping) loving it.
Okay, number two, this is about snacks.
This is about how do you keepit going for your research?
And I'm gonna go withfor, this is about Yumi,
dried mango and coffee.
(27:46):
- Oh yeah, that's true.
He sees that in my studio all the time.
It's definitely there.
- So I know it's true.
- Okay he knows it's true.
- Anything, I don't knowhow to say that, they're-
- Ube and Hopia?
- Yeah, yep.
- That's also true.
- Ding, ding, ding.
Okay, high five, high five, winning.
Okay, number three.
This is about the caffeinatedbeverage that you need
that's gonna, that'sgonna like, make you buzz,
(28:07):
which is not literal, to the signs.
And we're gonna go with black coffee.
- I like my milk.
- And milk, aah.
Okay, and then tea and water.
- That's correct.
- Yeah that is correct, ding ding, ding.
You get one point for that.
Okay number four, the question was,
who are the people who are annoyed
(28:28):
and tired of hearing aboutthe Filipino Rough Riders?
- They're gonna call in because we didn't,
I didn't name anybody.
- Okay, yeah, Yumi saidno one, and no one.
- I was gonna say no one, but-
- You actually came up with a name?
- Those in your close proximity.
- My son.- Yeah, your son.
- That's there, that's the son.
- Javi?
Okay and then, is itJose or Jesse, and Jose?
(28:49):
- Jose.- A little annoyed.
- I think Javi, yes.
I think, yeah, 'causehe knows all the names.
- Yeah.
- He can tell you all the names of the-
- Does he have a, he has a T-shirt.
You need to get T-shirts.
- Oh, we could get t-shirts.
You could do merch.
- Yeah, you could, I'mall about the merch, okay.
All right, that one I'mgonna give you like,
a half a point.
Okay, all right. the next question,
this is about, oh, places that you,
(29:11):
if you could like havea conceptual art project
anywhere in the world, where would you go?
And Emmanuel said, "Oh, it'son the move, it travels."
And then it went, okay,so it can stay in a place.
One that could stay-
- It won't stay in place.- It won't stay in place.
So, it's gotta be on the move, right?
- Yeah, yeah.
- So there's not place.- No.
- Not one place.- No.
- Agree card, yes, ding, ding, ding.
- Okay, yeah, everywhere.- Yeah.
(29:32):
- Ding, ding, ding win, winning.
- Correct.- Okay, and then-
- I'm surprised at howmany we've actually gotten.
- No, I'm not surprised.
I'm really, okay now this is how I knew
that Emmanuel doesn't dometaphor, anthropomorphics,
because I was like, if you could hear
from a piece of ephemera and he is like,
you mean here, like a cassette tape?
(laughing)
And I was like, no.
Like, but I'm gonna love this question.
So if you could hear,
(29:53):
what would be the piece of ephemera
that would like you speak to you-
- Yes.
- Non literally, as you held it, and so-
- I know the exact one,but I can't say it.
- You can't say it 'causewe can't share yet?
- Yes, but I can do it generally.
- Okay, so I may knowthis, one of the saddles.
- Oh, for me?- For you.
- Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
That yes.- Is that true, dinging?
- Yes, I'm like obsessed with saddles.
(30:13):
- Obsessed, okay.
- And then photos of some ofthe Filipino Rough Riders.
- Yes.- Yes.
- But we can't say the exact one on TV?
- No.
- I'm not on TV, this is a podcast.
- Can't say it.
- Can't say it, can we sayit and then bleep it out?
- No. (laughing)
- How about this?
Okay, t's this one beep, this one.
- It's the one rrring.
- Okay.
- It'll just keep the audience hanging.
(30:34):
- I know, it was like whenwe talked about Casa Bonita,
you couldn't talk about Casa Bonita.
- Right.
- Here's the question that I want to see
if you two can do collectively.
On the podcast we put a blessing
or a speaking forward to the ancestors
or a sending off intothe, that starts with and.
What would your and-
- I don't know, I justsaid you when you were,
went and visited one of 'em,(speaking in foreign language)
(30:56):
- Yeah?
- What does that translate to?
- I mean, that's a blessing.
But it's not a blessing,That's a more like,
let me please, let it beokay that I'm walking here
to our ancestor.
- And let it-
- Yes, let it be okay that we're here,
we don't mean any harm.
- We have been in conversation with them.
(31:17):
- Yes.
- And they've made themselves present.
- Yes.
- So we have to say (speakingin foreign language)
all the time, I think.
- It's our gratitude to them.- Yes.
- That was Yumi andEmmanuel on "The Ampersand."
For more on the Filipino Rough Riders
(31:37):
and their installation, "We AreComing," see our show notes.
"The Ampersand" is a production
of the College of Arts and Sciences
at the University of Colorado Boulder.
It is written and produced by me,
Erika Randall, and Tim Grassley.
If there are people you'dlike us to interview
on "The Ampersand," do please email us
at asinfo@colorado.edu.
(32:00):
Our theme music was composedand performed by Nelson Walker,
and the episodes are recordedat Interplay Recording,
in Boulder, Colorado.
I'm Erika Randall andthis is "The Ampersand."
(electronic music)
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