July 30, 2024 • 29 mins
Join us as we delve into Chris's journey, from her early experiences navigating the healthcare system to her role as a guiding force in advocating for equitable access to healthcare in New Jersey and beyond. Through her work in Burlington County and around the country, Chris sheds light on the challenges individuals face in accessing care and offers practical solutions to bridge the gaps.
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Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (00:00):
Welcome to Rowan College of Burlington
(00:02):
County's Baroness Podcast. I'mDr Brooke Mailhiot program chair
and assistant professor of ourentertainment technologies
department. I'm a co chair ofthe Women's Advocacy Group, a
subcommittee of the President'sAdvisory Council on diversity,
equity and inclusion. Thismonthly series highlights women
(00:23):
in leadership, while encouraginglisteners to build their skills,
connect with the community andvisualize the opportunities
available to women in variousprofessions. Tune in for a
female perspective on theBurlington County community. We
are here to listen to theseamazing women. And if you want
(00:44):
to hear from amazing women wholead and inspire this podcast is
for you today. Joining us isChris Deacon. She is a
distinguished consultant andlegal expert in employer
sponsored healthcare, advocatingfor cost effective strategies
that benefit both employers andemployees. She is a seasoned
(01:04):
national speaker and a reliablesource for industry
publications. She stands out forher integrity and impactful
content in the healthcare space.She was also the deputy attorney
general and special counsel toGovernor Christie and Chris is a
Rutgers Law School graduate witha BA in International Affairs.
(01:26):
From GW, welcome Chris. Thankyou for joining us today. Thanks
so much for having me, ofcourse, and I only read like a
quarter, not even a quarter ofyour entire bio. You are a
powerhouse. I don't even knowhow you fit in eating or
anything like that, along withyour family and the dog. What's
(01:46):
your dog's name? Twitch, twitch,love it. You are just an amazing
advocate in the healthcarespace. Can you in kind of like a
quick little elevator pitch?Tell everyone. Tell all our
listeners what you do.
Chris Deacon (02:01):
So I really focus on truth telling. And when I say
truth telling, there's so muchin the healthcare space that is
complex and complicated forpeople, and that complexity and
complication has really ledpeople, particularly employers
who provide health care for over160 million Americans to really,
(02:25):
you know, not do a great jobpurchasing on behalf of their
employers and employees. So Ireally focus on, you know,
pulling back the curtains on theblack box that is health care,
so that employers are able tomake smarter decisions when
purchasing healthcare,healthcare for their employees
in America.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (02:46):
And you know, healthcare is so huge in
New Jersey, and I agree withwhat you said, it's like pulling
back the curtain. Everybody hasthese questions on lots of
different things, from coverageto what is covered. How can I
get healthcare, especially fromthe small, you know, mom and pop
businesses that have small timeemployees, to the large, 1000s
(03:10):
to 100 1000s. And I love thatyou have helped navigate that.
What are some of the things thatpeople really just don't know
about for in healthcare andthings that you've kind of found
out about and that areassisting, yeah, so
Chris Deacon (03:31):
I think one of the biggest misconceptions, if I
was, you know, to wish, sort ofwave my magic wand and wish that
all people knew is number one,health care coverage does not
equal health care right, beingcovered and having quote,
unquote insurance coverage doesnot equate to your ability to
(03:54):
access health care in America,
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (03:56):
yeah, even though you have health care,
that doesn't mean you can accessit or even get it or get good
providers, or it's covered,right? 60%
Chris Deacon (04:06):
of Americans are what we call underinsured,
right? So they have health carecoverage, but because of the
high deductibles and anincreasing out of pocket costs,
you know, in addition to the,you know, the astronomical price
of health care and drugs, youknow, they aren't able to access
health care. I mean, the averageAmerican has, you know, less
(04:28):
than $1,000 in their savingsaccount, and so when you have a
deductible of $4,000 that meansyou're not able to access care.
And in addition, we we have acomplete mismatch in sort of
providers, you know, a supplyand demand. I went to book a
primary care visit a few monthsago, two months ago, and they
(04:50):
gave me a June appointment.Like, that's not access to care,
agree. Not.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (04:55):
I just had the same situation. I needed
just a regular GP. I. And it'slike, four months out, I'm like,
How do I I'm, I'm, I'm ill andhurting now. I need help. Now,
what's going to be informed? Anda lot of people are going
through this, and this is astruggle for everyone, just
obtaining practitioners andgetting appointments. Where did
(05:18):
this all come from? Because Idon't really remember this being
like this, right? Like, youcould call and, like, go and get
a sick appointment, you know, orget something like, later in
that week, right? Now, it's likemonths. It's
Chris Deacon (05:31):
months to get a primary care physician
appointment or a behavioralhealth care appointment, right?
But if you needed, let's say, acardiac stent, that is going to
reimburse a hospital 10s of1000s of dollars and is highly
profitable for the healthcaresystem and the systems in our
area. I bet you could get thatappointment tomorrow, or if you
(05:54):
needed imaging, right, that theymight charge, you know, 500%
over what CMS, the federalgovernment says that service
should cost. You could probablyget that service today. So when
I say we have a mismatch in sortof the supply and demand.
Americans need access to healthcare. We need access to good
primary care, we need access topediatricians. We need access to
(06:18):
behavioral health care, andwe're not getting it, but we
have an over abundance ofspecialized care. We have an
overabundance of health caresystems and hospital systems.
You know, if you drive downlocally here route 70, almost
every strip mall right, even thedoctor's offices the Morristown
(06:40):
mall right, has turned intoCooper Medical Center, yeah. So
we, we definitely have amismatch in supply and demand.
And you know, to go back towhat, what we don't understand
about healthcare is that weultimately pay the price. Right?
The American healthcare systemtoday gobbles up $4.6 trillion
(07:03):
that's almost 20% of our GDP,20% to put that into
perspective, we spend less than5% on defense, national defense.
So we're spending a tremendousamount of money. And we might
say, well, the insurance companycovers that, or my employer
covers that, or the governmentcovers that. At the end of the
day, we're paying, and whetherwe're paying through premiums or
(07:26):
out of pocket costs through ourtaxes and ultimately through our
health I mean, we are reallydeclining in mortality. Our
health outcomes are worse than,you know, most other developed
nations, and yet we spend threetimes more. We're not, we're not
getting what we're paying for,for sure. And
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (07:44):
I love that you brought in all the numbers
and talking about thegovernment, I know you're a huge
obviously, your whole backgroundis, is healthcare advocacy and
support and navigation foreveryone. And I know that you,
you know you go to DC and youfight for these things. What are
some of the things that you'vebeen down assisting and going
(08:06):
and being an advocate for inWashington?
Chris Deacon (08:10):
So I really beat the drum of transparency.
Transparency alone, Iunderstand, is not going to
solve our healthcare problems inAmerica, however, without
transparency and without andwhen I say transparency, I mean
understanding, you know, whatthe price of something is at a
(08:32):
hospital or a healthcare systemor a drug, and then
understanding the sort of therevenue and profit motives
behind that price, right privateequity, for example, is coming
in and buying up massiveprovider systems and health
systems, and they own a hugepiece of our healthcare system
infrastructure. How does thatimpact how care is delivered,
(08:56):
how care might be rationed, howcare how healthcare is priced
without understandingfundamentally, sort of the
financial incentives, ownershipstructures, all of this sort of
behind the scenes, and reallyagain, opening up that black box
of healthcare withoutunderstanding that, and
beginning to under you know,Appreciate what is behind that
(09:20):
$4.6 trillion price tag, wecan't solve it. So whether
you're on the right side of theaisle or the left side of the
aisle or somewhere in themiddle, I think we can all
agree, and 92% of Americansactually do agree that
transparency in healthcare is atop priority.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (09:37):
So how does somebody, the average American
household, what do you thinkthey're doing for access of
care?
Chris Deacon (09:46):
Unfortunately, I think today, the average
American household goes to DrGoogle to find care, or they ask
their friends, because we'vefundamentally we've lost. Trust
in the system. I don't think wedid ourselves any favor during
covid By not being fullytransparent and honest with what
(10:11):
we knew and what we didn't know.And and we weren't willing to
sort of own up to the mistakeswe made at the time. And and I
was in sort of the healthcaresystem when I was during covid,
I was with the state of NewJersey, providing directing the
health care program for all ofour state and local government
public employees. But again,we've lost a tremendous amount
(10:34):
of trust by some of the gamesthat we've played with with our
members. And that means, youknow, if we've put a $10,000
drug, you know, and prescribedthat drug, not because it's the
best drug for the patient, butperhaps because that was the
last pharma rep that visited ourhospital or visited our
provider, that's a disservice toour patient, it's a disservice
(10:58):
to the system. And throughactions like that, again, we've
lost trust. And going back towhat I feel most strongly about
and advocate for in DC and statecapitals around the country,
that's another T word, andthat's transparency.
Transparency is where and howyou begin to address the trust
(11:18):
that's been lost in our system.How
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (11:21):
do what are some steps that you think we
should be taking to regain thattrust
Chris Deacon (11:27):
so as individuals and consumers, I think we need
to be willing to ask smartquestions, not just of you know,
our insurance companies and ouremployers, but of our
physicians, right? You know, if,if a physician were to
prescribe, let's say, an MRI,you need to go get an MRI in the
(11:51):
next week to look at, you know,your arm, or whatever the thing
is, you know, you should askyour physician. Do I need to go
to the to the hospital, MRIimaging center, or can I go to a
freestanding imaging center?Because it actually might save
me $2,000 $3,000 ask questionsabout the medications that
(12:12):
you're prescribed. Oftentimes,our providers, you know, they're
given seven minutes to spendwith you because of the really,
the burden that they have, andhow many patients they need to
see to hit their metrics withintheir system. So I would, I
would say, really ask questions.Be an independent thinker in the
(12:34):
healthcare system. And then whenit comes to sort of in the
employer space, employers thatare signing the contracts with a
Blue Cross, Blue Shield, or aunited or a Cigna or an Aetna to
buy sort of their services toprovide health care for their
employees, they need to do abetter job. They need to wake up
(12:57):
and realize that when healthcare costs go up, everybody
wins, but them right? Theinsurance company makes more
money because they make moneybased on the cost of care going
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (13:10):
on. Yeah, your broker billable hours.
Chris Deacon (13:13):
Your broker is often paid a percentage of
premium. If your premium goesup, your broker makes more so
everybody sort of benefits inthis system when the cost goes
up, except for you as theemployer payer and your members,
who are ultimately footing thebill when they access care and
(13:35):
when wages are reduced becausethey have so much of the premium
To pay from their wages. What
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (13:41):
has been your biggest, I guess, quote,
unquote, win in any one of yourareas that you've held a
position to push this movementforward and to obtain, you know,
a positive, powerful outcome ora positive, powerful start to
something new. What has beenthat, that big aha moment for
(14:04):
you?
Chris Deacon (14:05):
So I would go back to when I really started in
earnest and healthcare, and thatwas as the director of the State
Health Benefits Program and theschool employee health benefits
program for the state of NewJersey, we represented over
820,000 public sector lives andyeah, and their family members.
And I would say my proudestmoments came, you know, in
(14:29):
plural, came from my time withthe state. It was, it was an
honor and a privilege of alifetime, really, to serve those
who serve us, and that'steachers and firefighters and
cops and and professors. But,you know, I would say one of our
one of the biggest wins, was themanner in which we approached
(14:51):
purchasing for the statefundamentally changed in that we
didn't accept the status quo. Imean, typically, I. Health Plans
purchased healthcare for theirmembers, you know, based off of
a discount. And do
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (15:07):
you want fries with that? Do you want? Do
you want to? Do you want tosupersize? But it's gonna Yeah,
right, just the basic, but thenyeah, or I'll
Chris Deacon (15:14):
give you a 90% discount, but I'm not going to
tell you the price. That's howhealthcare is purchased today in
America, and we pushed back andsaid, No, I would rather have a
5% discount and know the priceSure, and make sure that's a
fair price, because then aquestion mark, yeah. So we
really changed the way wepurchased. We saved hundreds of
(15:35):
millions of dollars actually.You know, some have said in the
in the billions, between theprescription side and the
medical side of the house, andso those, those are really, you
know, proud moments and mycareer and some of the my fellow
labor leaders and and stateleaders that we worked with. But
I will say that those proudmoments have also been met by
(15:57):
some real difficult times. Sowhen you save hundreds of
millions of dollars, that issomebody else's profit or
somebody else's revenue ormargin, right? And so it was
very disruptive. And you know, Ithink that some of our more
powerful healthcare entities inthe state of New Jersey. Again,
(16:23):
they are very powerful, and Iwas more than a NAT in their
side, so I knew when the writingwas on the wall and it was time
for me to leave and sort of takemy skill set on the road
nationally. And folks have beenmore than eager to hear my
experience and sort of mycounseling on how to help
(16:46):
improve the system. Yeah,
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (16:48):
and I want to kind of expand on that,
because now you, you areconsultant, you've gone, gone
off on your own. Tell us whatnow is that, that future goal
and next step for you andyourself and continuing to
advocate
Chris Deacon (17:05):
so I have never been one to follow a path well
trodden. Let's say you
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (17:13):
don't color within the wines. Is that? Is
that? Is that what you really
Chris Deacon (17:18):
that would be a fair assessment. You know, I
graduated from law school, and Idid the big law thing, and I did
a clerkship, and then Ipracticed, and really it didn't
fit me right, yeah, and so Itook this sort of circuitous
path, went into stategovernment, And very quickly,
(17:40):
sort of moved through variousranks and then got involved in
healthcare, and I've always donethe next right thing. And so,
you know, I think if you askedme that question 1015, years
ago, I would have wanted to havea more solid answer, like,
what's my what's my next step?And of course, I think I have,
(18:01):
sort of, if this were amarathon, I have the next 200
yards plotted out, um,
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (18:07):
but that's the best thing, yeah, because
then it's like, free, yes, likefree to to follow, you know, a
dream or follow, you know,something that's meaningful to
you. And I know the way that youspeak and that you know when I
follow all your socials and allthese beautiful things that
you're doing, you now have timefor and space for, and you can
(18:30):
follow a different path anddifferent trail to blaze
Chris Deacon (18:33):
right? And it's always I've been blessed, and
that it's and and it comes fromhard work. I will say I've been
blessed, but I also am a veryhard worker and dedicated, but
it's always worked out right ifI've done the next right thing
and and whether that's mydecisions with respect to the
state, my decisions and myconsulting career, and always
(18:55):
staying true to my brand and myindependence and my really lack
of willingness to compromise onany of my principles, it is
always proven to be at the rightdecision. And and the path lay
before me right. And so, like Isaid, I can, I can go the whole
(19:17):
26.2 miles by only ever seeingthe next 200 yards, and I'll get
there.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (19:24):
You use two really powerful words just then,
true and dedicated, and you havea beautiful nonprofit called
heal for her. And I want you totell our listeners, how did you
start this you know, where didthis idea for this nonprofit
(19:45):
come from? And what do you dofor the community?
Chris Deacon (19:49):
Thank you so much for asking about heal for her.
So heal for her. Stands forhealth, equity, access and
literacy for her. And when I waskind. Considering where I wanted
to spend some of my time interms of giving back, I thought,
what is, you know, what skillset do I have, and how can I
(20:10):
match that with a with apopulation in a community that
are most marginalized andwithout a voice, right? And so
that naturally led me to looksort of at the female
incarcerated population, sowomen that have been involved
with the justice system or haverecently left involvement with
(20:31):
the justice system, because Iknow how hard it is to navigate
the American healthcare systemwith all of the privileges and
benefits that come with that,and I think, and after much
research, see and know thetremendous disadvantages that
these women have, and whetherthat's women that are, you know,
(20:53):
giving birth behind bars, or aremothers and have been forced to
sort of hand over their childrenAnd behind bars, or women that
are just exiting incarcerationand are really starting with
with nothing from Ground Zero,how are they going to access our
health care system, and how canwe as a society help them?
(21:13):
Because I think we owe, youknow, we owe them enough to not
make them start from behind,right and and so I just feel
really strongly about this, thiscause, and through heal for her,
we partner with other communityorganizations like New Jersey re
entry, Philadelphia reentry. Wedistribute books we we speak
(21:39):
inside of the prisons, on accessto health care, how to access
Medicaid. It might surprise youto know that health care is not
free in the US prison system.They actually a lot of people
know that they have to pay,oftentimes, co pays, and there's
a cost associated with seekingcare. And if you think it's hard
(22:00):
for you and I to access mentalhealth care. Just imagine what
it might be like behind bars.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (22:07):
That's unbelievable. So tell me a
little bit more about some ofthe programs, any of the
specific programs that heal forher does.
Chris Deacon (22:15):
So as I said, there was in terms of
distributing books, many womenare either pregnant or preparing
to give birth behind bars andreally don't have any good
information about how toproperly care for themselves or
their or their their children.And so we distributed What to
(22:39):
Expect When You're Expectingboth in English and Spanish and
some other languages, just totry and get good information
into the hands of people thatare really eager to do the right
thing for themselves and theirchildren.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (22:52):
Yeah, and this is that word that you were
saying about access, access tocare, access to information.
It's very hard for people toobtain this. Instead of just
going to Google right andGoogling that
Chris Deacon (23:03):
right? Well, and you can imagine, if you don't
have access to Google, yeah,exactly
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (23:07):
right, you're incarcerated, right?
Yeah.
Chris Deacon (23:11):
And then again, like, as I said, we partnered
with New Jersey reentrycorporation to provide materials
and information in the form of,like, written materials to women
that have just left as part ofsort of a package that we also
put together with, you know,essential health elements, so,
(23:31):
you know, tampons, pads, hygieneproducts, and then information
about how to get on to Medicaidor how to ask, ask an employer
about health care that might beavailable through the employer,
and, you know, just providingthem some really elementary
Well, it sounds Elementary tome, because I'm in the space,
(23:52):
but elementary language to use,sure, what is coinsurance? What
is a copay? I mean, 90% ofAmericans don't know the
difference between those twothings. I call
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (24:01):
it like life University, no one ever
told you about that, right? Noone ever told me what that
meant. You know what I mean? SoI totally get it that you're
trying to share and provide asmuch information so they have
knowledge to be able to askthose questions that you said
earlier. Ask the doctor aboutthose questions. What do I do?
Where do I go? What's my nextstep? Right?
Chris Deacon (24:22):
And that empowerment, I think, is really
what it's all about. Because theaccess in the literacy piece,
when you empower somebody to askquestions and advocate for
themselves, they get they haveagency. And I think that not
just for this population, butfor all of us, we are lacking
(24:43):
some agency in our ownhealthcare, journeys and
decisions, and so by educatingand providing this type of
information and literacy help,we can help empower and give
agency back.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (24:58):
So what can we. As a community, if we wanted
to jump on Chris's bandwagon tosupport all these amazing
things, what can we do?
Chris Deacon (25:09):
So we have a website that you can go to and
at any given time we're doingeither a book drive or a
materials drive. You know, we'realso very cognizant of the fact
that you know these types ofthings are more or less band
aids on a situation that needsto be solved at a more systemic
level. So get involved and learnabout your particular
(25:33):
community's stance, role, whathave you, and how you can affect
and effectuate change, eitherthrough how you vote, or
educating yourself and educatingyour policymakers so that they
can, you know, make make gooddecisions and good policy. I
mean, it's it might surprise youto know that it's just been in
(25:54):
the last decade that we've hadsort of an unshackling law,
meaning, you know, mothersgiving birth in the US Justice
system should not be shackleddown while giving birth. And you
know, I have three kids. I know,I know that you have kids. It's
sort of unimaginable that that'sstill a thing in America, but
(26:15):
it'll be a thing until we openour eyes and do something about
it. So
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (26:21):
every time I speak to a guest, I've write
down words from throughout ourconversation, and I read them
back, and I use them almost ashashtags to to continue the
conversation. So I'm going toread you some little taglines,
hashtags that I've written fromour conversation here, and then
I want to ask you what yourafter hearing these, what your
(26:45):
personal hashtag is, okay?Hashtag, giving back dedicated
truth telling, pulling back thecurtain, magic wand, healthcare
under inspired, highlyprofitable transparency
problems, impacted, appreciate,lost trust, advocacy, smart
(27:06):
questions, ask questions.Independent thinkers. Right
Thing, hard worker privilegesand get involved. You said all
those words. Did you think yousaid all those words? No. So
now, what would your go to ifyou had a hashtag to live by?
What would your hashtag be?
Chris Deacon (27:28):
Does it have to be from that list? No, okay, let's
see. Well, I am going to pickone from that list, I think, or
it's close to truth tellerhashtag, integrity. And I think
integrity, for me is a valuethat I aspire to live by, not
(27:51):
only in my professional career,but in life. And sometimes
living by that principle andliving leaning into that value
can be really uncomfortable. Andit can cause, yeah, like I said,
it can cause discomfort. It cancause, you know, meet a need to
take a new career path or tomake difficult decisions related
(28:14):
to my family. But going back towhat I said before, it's, it's
always making the rightdecision. So, you know, make the
next right decision and leaninto that integrity.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (28:27):
Well, my right decision was asking you to
be here today. So we thank youso much for sharing your
inspiration, your journey, and Iwish you luck on everything
that's coming to the future. Weyou know, I can't wait to hear
all the great things that you'regoing to be doing. If anybody
else wants to connect with you,whether it's your consulting or
(28:47):
your nonprofit, can you sharewith us any of your socials?
Absolutely
Chris Deacon (28:51):
So. Chris Deacon on LinkedIn, I believe truth
teller and speaker is next to myname if you want to find me, and
there you can find links to mywebsite for versa and consulting
and some other social as well.And then healfoher.org
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (29:10):
Thank you so much, Chris for joining me
today. Thanks
Chris Deacon (29:13):
for having me. It was a pleasure. Take
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (29:14):
care. Thanks. You've
Jason Varga (29:15):
been listening to the rcbc Baroness podcast, which
highlights women in leadershipwhile encouraging listeners to
build their skills, connect withthe community and visualize the
opportunities available to womenin various professions. For more
information about this podcastor other podcasts available on
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subscribe to the rcbc Baronesspodcast available on all
(29:37):
streaming platforms you.
Welcome to Rowan College of Burlington
(00:02):
County's Baroness Podcast. I'mDr Brooke Mailhiot program chair
and assistant professor of ourentertainment technologies
department. I'm a co chair ofthe Women's Advocacy Group, a
subcommittee of the President'sAdvisory Council on diversity,
equity and inclusion. Thismonthly series highlights women
(00:23):
in leadership, while encouraginglisteners to build their skills,
connect with the community andvisualize the opportunities
available to women in variousprofessions. Tune in for a
female perspective on theBurlington County community. We
are here to listen to theseamazing women. And if you want
(00:44):
to hear from amazing women wholead and inspire this podcast is
for you today. Joining us isChris Deacon. She is a
distinguished consultant andlegal expert in employer
sponsored healthcare, advocatingfor cost effective strategies
that benefit both employers andemployees. She is a seasoned
(01:04):
national speaker and a reliablesource for industry
publications. She stands out forher integrity and impactful
content in the healthcare space.She was also the deputy attorney
general and special counsel toGovernor Christie and Chris is a
Rutgers Law School graduate witha BA in International Affairs.
(01:26):
From GW, welcome Chris. Thankyou for joining us today. Thanks
so much for having me, ofcourse, and I only read like a
quarter, not even a quarter ofyour entire bio. You are a
powerhouse. I don't even knowhow you fit in eating or
anything like that, along withyour family and the dog. What's
(01:46):
your dog's name? Twitch, twitch,love it. You are just an amazing
advocate in the healthcarespace. Can you in kind of like a
quick little elevator pitch?Tell everyone. Tell all our
listeners what you do.
Chris Deacon (02:01):
So I really focus on truth telling. And when I say
truth telling, there's so muchin the healthcare space that is
complex and complicated forpeople, and that complexity and
complication has really ledpeople, particularly employers
who provide health care for over160 million Americans to really,
(02:25):
you know, not do a great jobpurchasing on behalf of their
employers and employees. So Ireally focus on, you know,
pulling back the curtains on theblack box that is health care,
so that employers are able tomake smarter decisions when
purchasing healthcare,healthcare for their employees
in America.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (02:46):
And you know, healthcare is so huge in
New Jersey, and I agree withwhat you said, it's like pulling
back the curtain. Everybody hasthese questions on lots of
different things, from coverageto what is covered. How can I
get healthcare, especially fromthe small, you know, mom and pop
businesses that have small timeemployees, to the large, 1000s
(03:10):
to 100 1000s. And I love thatyou have helped navigate that.
What are some of the things thatpeople really just don't know
about for in healthcare andthings that you've kind of found
out about and that areassisting, yeah, so
Chris Deacon (03:31):
I think one of the biggest misconceptions, if I
was, you know, to wish, sort ofwave my magic wand and wish that
all people knew is number one,health care coverage does not
equal health care right, beingcovered and having quote,
unquote insurance coverage doesnot equate to your ability to
(03:54):
access health care in America,
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (03:56):
yeah, even though you have health care,
that doesn't mean you can accessit or even get it or get good
providers, or it's covered,right? 60%
Chris Deacon (04:06):
of Americans are what we call underinsured,
right? So they have health carecoverage, but because of the
high deductibles and anincreasing out of pocket costs,
you know, in addition to the,you know, the astronomical price
of health care and drugs, youknow, they aren't able to access
health care. I mean, the averageAmerican has, you know, less
(04:28):
than $1,000 in their savingsaccount, and so when you have a
deductible of $4,000 that meansyou're not able to access care.
And in addition, we we have acomplete mismatch in sort of
providers, you know, a supplyand demand. I went to book a
primary care visit a few monthsago, two months ago, and they
(04:50):
gave me a June appointment.Like, that's not access to care,
agree. Not.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (04:55):
I just had the same situation. I needed
just a regular GP. I. And it'slike, four months out, I'm like,
How do I I'm, I'm, I'm ill andhurting now. I need help. Now,
what's going to be informed? Anda lot of people are going
through this, and this is astruggle for everyone, just
obtaining practitioners andgetting appointments. Where did
(05:18):
this all come from? Because Idon't really remember this being
like this, right? Like, youcould call and, like, go and get
a sick appointment, you know, orget something like, later in
that week, right? Now, it's likemonths. It's
Chris Deacon (05:31):
months to get a primary care physician
appointment or a behavioralhealth care appointment, right?
But if you needed, let's say, acardiac stent, that is going to
reimburse a hospital 10s of1000s of dollars and is highly
profitable for the healthcaresystem and the systems in our
area. I bet you could get thatappointment tomorrow, or if you
(05:54):
needed imaging, right, that theymight charge, you know, 500%
over what CMS, the federalgovernment says that service
should cost. You could probablyget that service today. So when
I say we have a mismatch in sortof the supply and demand.
Americans need access to healthcare. We need access to good
primary care, we need access topediatricians. We need access to
(06:18):
behavioral health care, andwe're not getting it, but we
have an over abundance ofspecialized care. We have an
overabundance of health caresystems and hospital systems.
You know, if you drive downlocally here route 70, almost
every strip mall right, even thedoctor's offices the Morristown
(06:40):
mall right, has turned intoCooper Medical Center, yeah. So
we, we definitely have amismatch in supply and demand.
And you know, to go back towhat, what we don't understand
about healthcare is that weultimately pay the price. Right?
The American healthcare systemtoday gobbles up $4.6 trillion
(07:03):
that's almost 20% of our GDP,20% to put that into
perspective, we spend less than5% on defense, national defense.
So we're spending a tremendousamount of money. And we might
say, well, the insurance companycovers that, or my employer
covers that, or the governmentcovers that. At the end of the
day, we're paying, and whetherwe're paying through premiums or
(07:26):
out of pocket costs through ourtaxes and ultimately through our
health I mean, we are reallydeclining in mortality. Our
health outcomes are worse than,you know, most other developed
nations, and yet we spend threetimes more. We're not, we're not
getting what we're paying for,for sure. And
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (07:44):
I love that you brought in all the numbers
and talking about thegovernment, I know you're a huge
obviously, your whole backgroundis, is healthcare advocacy and
support and navigation foreveryone. And I know that you,
you know you go to DC and youfight for these things. What are
some of the things that you'vebeen down assisting and going
(08:06):
and being an advocate for inWashington?
Chris Deacon (08:10):
So I really beat the drum of transparency.
Transparency alone, Iunderstand, is not going to
solve our healthcare problems inAmerica, however, without
transparency and without andwhen I say transparency, I mean
understanding, you know, whatthe price of something is at a
(08:32):
hospital or a healthcare systemor a drug, and then
understanding the sort of therevenue and profit motives
behind that price, right privateequity, for example, is coming
in and buying up massiveprovider systems and health
systems, and they own a hugepiece of our healthcare system
infrastructure. How does thatimpact how care is delivered,
(08:56):
how care might be rationed, howcare how healthcare is priced
without understandingfundamentally, sort of the
financial incentives, ownershipstructures, all of this sort of
behind the scenes, and reallyagain, opening up that black box
of healthcare withoutunderstanding that, and
beginning to under you know,Appreciate what is behind that
(09:20):
$4.6 trillion price tag, wecan't solve it. So whether
you're on the right side of theaisle or the left side of the
aisle or somewhere in themiddle, I think we can all
agree, and 92% of Americansactually do agree that
transparency in healthcare is atop priority.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (09:37):
So how does somebody, the average American
household, what do you thinkthey're doing for access of
care?
Chris Deacon (09:46):
Unfortunately, I think today, the average
American household goes to DrGoogle to find care, or they ask
their friends, because we'vefundamentally we've lost. Trust
in the system. I don't think wedid ourselves any favor during
covid By not being fullytransparent and honest with what
(10:11):
we knew and what we didn't know.And and we weren't willing to
sort of own up to the mistakeswe made at the time. And and I
was in sort of the healthcaresystem when I was during covid,
I was with the state of NewJersey, providing directing the
health care program for all ofour state and local government
public employees. But again,we've lost a tremendous amount
(10:34):
of trust by some of the gamesthat we've played with with our
members. And that means, youknow, if we've put a $10,000
drug, you know, and prescribedthat drug, not because it's the
best drug for the patient, butperhaps because that was the
last pharma rep that visited ourhospital or visited our
provider, that's a disservice toour patient, it's a disservice
(10:58):
to the system. And throughactions like that, again, we've
lost trust. And going back towhat I feel most strongly about
and advocate for in DC and statecapitals around the country,
that's another T word, andthat's transparency.
Transparency is where and howyou begin to address the trust
(11:18):
that's been lost in our system.How
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (11:21):
do what are some steps that you think we
should be taking to regain thattrust
Chris Deacon (11:27):
so as individuals and consumers, I think we need
to be willing to ask smartquestions, not just of you know,
our insurance companies and ouremployers, but of our
physicians, right? You know, if,if a physician were to
prescribe, let's say, an MRI,you need to go get an MRI in the
(11:51):
next week to look at, you know,your arm, or whatever the thing
is, you know, you should askyour physician. Do I need to go
to the to the hospital, MRIimaging center, or can I go to a
freestanding imaging center?Because it actually might save
me $2,000 $3,000 ask questionsabout the medications that
(12:12):
you're prescribed. Oftentimes,our providers, you know, they're
given seven minutes to spendwith you because of the really,
the burden that they have, andhow many patients they need to
see to hit their metrics withintheir system. So I would, I
would say, really ask questions.Be an independent thinker in the
(12:34):
healthcare system. And then whenit comes to sort of in the
employer space, employers thatare signing the contracts with a
Blue Cross, Blue Shield, or aunited or a Cigna or an Aetna to
buy sort of their services toprovide health care for their
employees, they need to do abetter job. They need to wake up
(12:57):
and realize that when healthcare costs go up, everybody
wins, but them right? Theinsurance company makes more
money because they make moneybased on the cost of care going
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (13:10):
on. Yeah, your broker billable hours.
Chris Deacon (13:13):
Your broker is often paid a percentage of
premium. If your premium goesup, your broker makes more so
everybody sort of benefits inthis system when the cost goes
up, except for you as theemployer payer and your members,
who are ultimately footing thebill when they access care and
(13:35):
when wages are reduced becausethey have so much of the premium
To pay from their wages. What
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (13:41):
has been your biggest, I guess, quote,
unquote, win in any one of yourareas that you've held a
position to push this movementforward and to obtain, you know,
a positive, powerful outcome ora positive, powerful start to
something new. What has beenthat, that big aha moment for
(14:04):
you?
Chris Deacon (14:05):
So I would go back to when I really started in
earnest and healthcare, and thatwas as the director of the State
Health Benefits Program and theschool employee health benefits
program for the state of NewJersey, we represented over
820,000 public sector lives andyeah, and their family members.
And I would say my proudestmoments came, you know, in
(14:29):
plural, came from my time withthe state. It was, it was an
honor and a privilege of alifetime, really, to serve those
who serve us, and that'steachers and firefighters and
cops and and professors. But,you know, I would say one of our
one of the biggest wins, was themanner in which we approached
(14:51):
purchasing for the statefundamentally changed in that we
didn't accept the status quo. Imean, typically, I. Health Plans
purchased healthcare for theirmembers, you know, based off of
a discount. And do
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (15:07):
you want fries with that? Do you want? Do
you want to? Do you want tosupersize? But it's gonna Yeah,
right, just the basic, but thenyeah, or I'll
Chris Deacon (15:14):
give you a 90% discount, but I'm not going to
tell you the price. That's howhealthcare is purchased today in
America, and we pushed back andsaid, No, I would rather have a
5% discount and know the priceSure, and make sure that's a
fair price, because then aquestion mark, yeah. So we
really changed the way wepurchased. We saved hundreds of
(15:35):
millions of dollars actually.You know, some have said in the
in the billions, between theprescription side and the
medical side of the house, andso those, those are really, you
know, proud moments and mycareer and some of the my fellow
labor leaders and and stateleaders that we worked with. But
I will say that those proudmoments have also been met by
(15:57):
some real difficult times. Sowhen you save hundreds of
millions of dollars, that issomebody else's profit or
somebody else's revenue ormargin, right? And so it was
very disruptive. And you know, Ithink that some of our more
powerful healthcare entities inthe state of New Jersey. Again,
(16:23):
they are very powerful, and Iwas more than a NAT in their
side, so I knew when the writingwas on the wall and it was time
for me to leave and sort of takemy skill set on the road
nationally. And folks have beenmore than eager to hear my
experience and sort of mycounseling on how to help
(16:46):
improve the system. Yeah,
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (16:48):
and I want to kind of expand on that,
because now you, you areconsultant, you've gone, gone
off on your own. Tell us whatnow is that, that future goal
and next step for you andyourself and continuing to
advocate
Chris Deacon (17:05):
so I have never been one to follow a path well
trodden. Let's say you
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (17:13):
don't color within the wines. Is that? Is
that? Is that what you really
Chris Deacon (17:18):
that would be a fair assessment. You know, I
graduated from law school, and Idid the big law thing, and I did
a clerkship, and then Ipracticed, and really it didn't
fit me right, yeah, and so Itook this sort of circuitous
path, went into stategovernment, And very quickly,
(17:40):
sort of moved through variousranks and then got involved in
healthcare, and I've always donethe next right thing. And so,
you know, I think if you askedme that question 1015, years
ago, I would have wanted to havea more solid answer, like,
what's my what's my next step?And of course, I think I have,
(18:01):
sort of, if this were amarathon, I have the next 200
yards plotted out, um,
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (18:07):
but that's the best thing, yeah, because
then it's like, free, yes, likefree to to follow, you know, a
dream or follow, you know,something that's meaningful to
you. And I know the way that youspeak and that you know when I
follow all your socials and allthese beautiful things that
you're doing, you now have timefor and space for, and you can
(18:30):
follow a different path anddifferent trail to blaze
Chris Deacon (18:33):
right? And it's always I've been blessed, and
that it's and and it comes fromhard work. I will say I've been
blessed, but I also am a veryhard worker and dedicated, but
it's always worked out right ifI've done the next right thing
and and whether that's mydecisions with respect to the
state, my decisions and myconsulting career, and always
(18:55):
staying true to my brand and myindependence and my really lack
of willingness to compromise onany of my principles, it is
always proven to be at the rightdecision. And and the path lay
before me right. And so, like Isaid, I can, I can go the whole
(19:17):
26.2 miles by only ever seeingthe next 200 yards, and I'll get
there.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (19:24):
You use two really powerful words just then,
true and dedicated, and you havea beautiful nonprofit called
heal for her. And I want you totell our listeners, how did you
start this you know, where didthis idea for this nonprofit
(19:45):
come from? And what do you dofor the community?
Chris Deacon (19:49):
Thank you so much for asking about heal for her.
So heal for her. Stands forhealth, equity, access and
literacy for her. And when I waskind. Considering where I wanted
to spend some of my time interms of giving back, I thought,
what is, you know, what skillset do I have, and how can I
(20:10):
match that with a with apopulation in a community that
are most marginalized andwithout a voice, right? And so
that naturally led me to looksort of at the female
incarcerated population, sowomen that have been involved
with the justice system or haverecently left involvement with
(20:31):
the justice system, because Iknow how hard it is to navigate
the American healthcare systemwith all of the privileges and
benefits that come with that,and I think, and after much
research, see and know thetremendous disadvantages that
these women have, and whetherthat's women that are, you know,
(20:53):
giving birth behind bars, or aremothers and have been forced to
sort of hand over their childrenAnd behind bars, or women that
are just exiting incarcerationand are really starting with
with nothing from Ground Zero,how are they going to access our
health care system, and how canwe as a society help them?
(21:13):
Because I think we owe, youknow, we owe them enough to not
make them start from behind,right and and so I just feel
really strongly about this, thiscause, and through heal for her,
we partner with other communityorganizations like New Jersey re
entry, Philadelphia reentry. Wedistribute books we we speak
(21:39):
inside of the prisons, on accessto health care, how to access
Medicaid. It might surprise youto know that health care is not
free in the US prison system.They actually a lot of people
know that they have to pay,oftentimes, co pays, and there's
a cost associated with seekingcare. And if you think it's hard
(22:00):
for you and I to access mentalhealth care. Just imagine what
it might be like behind bars.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (22:07):
That's unbelievable. So tell me a
little bit more about some ofthe programs, any of the
specific programs that heal forher does.
Chris Deacon (22:15):
So as I said, there was in terms of
distributing books, many womenare either pregnant or preparing
to give birth behind bars andreally don't have any good
information about how toproperly care for themselves or
their or their their children.And so we distributed What to
(22:39):
Expect When You're Expectingboth in English and Spanish and
some other languages, just totry and get good information
into the hands of people thatare really eager to do the right
thing for themselves and theirchildren.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (22:52):
Yeah, and this is that word that you were
saying about access, access tocare, access to information.
It's very hard for people toobtain this. Instead of just
going to Google right andGoogling that
Chris Deacon (23:03):
right? Well, and you can imagine, if you don't
have access to Google, yeah,exactly
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (23:07):
right, you're incarcerated, right?
Yeah.
Chris Deacon (23:11):
And then again, like, as I said, we partnered
with New Jersey reentrycorporation to provide materials
and information in the form of,like, written materials to women
that have just left as part ofsort of a package that we also
put together with, you know,essential health elements, so,
(23:31):
you know, tampons, pads, hygieneproducts, and then information
about how to get on to Medicaidor how to ask, ask an employer
about health care that might beavailable through the employer,
and, you know, just providingthem some really elementary
Well, it sounds Elementary tome, because I'm in the space,
(23:52):
but elementary language to use,sure, what is coinsurance? What
is a copay? I mean, 90% ofAmericans don't know the
difference between those twothings. I call
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (24:01):
it like life University, no one ever
told you about that, right? Noone ever told me what that
meant. You know what I mean? SoI totally get it that you're
trying to share and provide asmuch information so they have
knowledge to be able to askthose questions that you said
earlier. Ask the doctor aboutthose questions. What do I do?
Where do I go? What's my nextstep? Right?
Chris Deacon (24:22):
And that empowerment, I think, is really
what it's all about. Because theaccess in the literacy piece,
when you empower somebody to askquestions and advocate for
themselves, they get they haveagency. And I think that not
just for this population, butfor all of us, we are lacking
(24:43):
some agency in our ownhealthcare, journeys and
decisions, and so by educatingand providing this type of
information and literacy help,we can help empower and give
agency back.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (24:58):
So what can we. As a community, if we wanted
to jump on Chris's bandwagon tosupport all these amazing
things, what can we do?
Chris Deacon (25:09):
So we have a website that you can go to and
at any given time we're doingeither a book drive or a
materials drive. You know, we'realso very cognizant of the fact
that you know these types ofthings are more or less band
aids on a situation that needsto be solved at a more systemic
level. So get involved and learnabout your particular
(25:33):
community's stance, role, whathave you, and how you can affect
and effectuate change, eitherthrough how you vote, or
educating yourself and educatingyour policymakers so that they
can, you know, make make gooddecisions and good policy. I
mean, it's it might surprise youto know that it's just been in
(25:54):
the last decade that we've hadsort of an unshackling law,
meaning, you know, mothersgiving birth in the US Justice
system should not be shackleddown while giving birth. And you
know, I have three kids. I know,I know that you have kids. It's
sort of unimaginable that that'sstill a thing in America, but
(26:15):
it'll be a thing until we openour eyes and do something about
it. So
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (26:21):
every time I speak to a guest, I've write
down words from throughout ourconversation, and I read them
back, and I use them almost ashashtags to to continue the
conversation. So I'm going toread you some little taglines,
hashtags that I've written fromour conversation here, and then
I want to ask you what yourafter hearing these, what your
(26:45):
personal hashtag is, okay?Hashtag, giving back dedicated
truth telling, pulling back thecurtain, magic wand, healthcare
under inspired, highlyprofitable transparency
problems, impacted, appreciate,lost trust, advocacy, smart
(27:06):
questions, ask questions.Independent thinkers. Right
Thing, hard worker privilegesand get involved. You said all
those words. Did you think yousaid all those words? No. So
now, what would your go to ifyou had a hashtag to live by?
What would your hashtag be?
Chris Deacon (27:28):
Does it have to be from that list? No, okay, let's
see. Well, I am going to pickone from that list, I think, or
it's close to truth tellerhashtag, integrity. And I think
integrity, for me is a valuethat I aspire to live by, not
(27:51):
only in my professional career,but in life. And sometimes
living by that principle andliving leaning into that value
can be really uncomfortable. Andit can cause, yeah, like I said,
it can cause discomfort. It cancause, you know, meet a need to
take a new career path or tomake difficult decisions related
(28:14):
to my family. But going back towhat I said before, it's, it's
always making the rightdecision. So, you know, make the
next right decision and leaninto that integrity.
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (28:27):
Well, my right decision was asking you to
be here today. So we thank youso much for sharing your
inspiration, your journey, and Iwish you luck on everything
that's coming to the future. Weyou know, I can't wait to hear
all the great things that you'regoing to be doing. If anybody
else wants to connect with you,whether it's your consulting or
(28:47):
your nonprofit, can you sharewith us any of your socials?
Absolutely
Chris Deacon (28:51):
So. Chris Deacon on LinkedIn, I believe truth
teller and speaker is next to myname if you want to find me, and
there you can find links to mywebsite for versa and consulting
and some other social as well.And then healfoher.org
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (29:10):
Thank you so much, Chris for joining me
today. Thanks
Chris Deacon (29:13):
for having me. It was a pleasure. Take
Dr. Brooke Mailhiot (29:14):
care. Thanks. You've
Jason Varga (29:15):
been listening to the rcbc Baroness podcast, which
highlights women in leadershipwhile encouraging listeners to
build their skills, connect withthe community and visualize the
opportunities available to womenin various professions. For more
information about this podcastor other podcasts available on
the rcbc Podcast Network, visitrcbc.edu/podcast and be sure to
subscribe to the rcbc Baronesspodcast available on all
(29:37):
streaming platforms you.
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