June 20, 2024 • 51 mins
Join us in this last part of three episodes as we delve deeper into the SH!PS Approach. Our host begins with a grounding meditation, inviting us to connect with the Earth's energy and our chakras, setting the stage for a deeper exploration of the SHIPS model: Solidarity, Hope, Inspiring Service, and Trusting the Process.
We revisit the concept of Solidarity, likening it to the ship itself – the essential vessel that enables connection and mutual support. The discussion moves into Hope, emphasizing its dual nature as both a feeling and a reality, and how it ties into the cosmic law of three, where every crisis holds the seeds of reconciliation and transformation.
The episode features an engaging exercise where participants identify their core values by imagining what they hope to be remembered for at their funeral. This exercise helps bring subconscious values to the forefront, allowing for more intentional living. Listeners are invited to explore their values by reflecting on people they admire and the characteristics they embody.
Trusting the Process is another key topic, where various models like "Order, Disorder, and Reorder" and "Forming, Storming, Norming, and Performing" are discussed. The host emphasizes the importance of holy indifference – engaging in actions without attachment to outcomes, allowing for a more genuine and effective service to others.
The episode concludes with a focus on Inspiring Service, encouraging listeners to commit to specific acts of service and follow through. This practice not only enriches the lives of others but also deepens one's own spiritual journey by embodying core values in everyday actions.
Tune in for a transformative conversation that offers practical tools and profound insights to help you navigate your spiritual growth and personal development journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
To the degree that you can, please close your eyes if you're sitting up.
Make sure that both feet are on the ground.
And see if you can visualize drawing upon the power of the earth.
That the earth is not separate from us, but is us and is the ground of us.
(00:23):
If you can see and feel energy coming in through your lower chakras and picture
the energy going through each chakra.
So now, the orange one, see it when the energy comes into each chakra,
see the chakra glow of the color of its ray, and make a really pleasant,
(00:50):
beautiful noise as it crystallizes.
Let's move it to the orange beam up
to the yellow into the heart
green just feel and welcome the energy moving up and feel it in the throat as
(01:11):
it brightens up the blue ray feel it moving up into to your sixth chakra,
the indigo ray, you might feel pressure or a tickle.
Look, if you don't, you might, between your eyes, and then the very top of your head, the violet ray.
(01:34):
Feel it opening and going out into the world and see it connecting with all the rest of us.
Together, we're forming this great thought form, this great blessing that we
bless all of those who might hear this recording in the future.
(01:55):
For those of us here and for the whole world, we ask that our little endeavor.
Solidarity and hope and trusting the process, inspiring service,
that this spirituality Spirituality be a blessing to all those who wish to help others.
(02:18):
And we thank you for the opportunity. Amen. All right. Very good.
Well, we're going to get started.
And you may remember last week, for those of us who were here,
we had talked about that we had gone through ships.
And we remember the I stands for entering the view of the other.
(02:42):
Solidarity is the first one. and I'd just like to kind of offer this little
way perhaps to understand the order, maybe even of the importance of the different letters.
I'd like to say that solidarity might be the ship itself.
(03:03):
So if you can imagine the entire ship, the container that floats, that's solidarity.
So we can't really help others in terms of cultivating hope
or trusting process or inspiring service
we can't do those things unless we have connected with
the other person and that we want to
(03:24):
connect with the other person so that's like the container
itself and then hope could be
the the different
things that make a ship go you know you might have things like the sale and
the food the sailors all the things that go into making a ship typical,
(03:53):
floatable for people to live on there and then maybe we can understand the p
P, which is trusting the process,
we can understand the P as, I think, the captain and captains and all the different
people that are working in the ship.
And then lastly, the S, I think, would be the wind that allows this whole thing to go forward.
(04:20):
So you can see without the ship, without solidarity, nothing happens.
But then once you have the ship, we need to sail it.
And so then we have hope and process P and then S for inspiring service at the end. Okay.
(04:40):
So we had talked about solidarity last time, and we had talked also a little
bit about hope last time.
And what I wanted to review really quickly was this idea that hope is a feeling.
It's a feeling as well as a reality.
And a lot of us feel like we don't have a lot of hope or you might be with somebody and,
(05:07):
maybe they have a lot of anger or maybe they have a lot of pain you know and
right now especially in our post-modern culture a lot of people talk about this
thing called the crisis of meaning the meaning crisis.
And it's often connected with this sense of where's the hope?
(05:28):
What is hope? And hope towards what?
But I believe, and I'm not saying it's right, but try it on for yourself,
that hope is actually connected to the cosmic law of three.
Now, remember, the law of three says that there's an affirming force,
and then there's a denying force,
(05:50):
and that when we have a kind of conflict that we can't seem to get over,
and we may feel like we can never
get over it, maybe we feel like it's incredibly difficult in some way.
And I'm taking this through faith here because I have faith that in every crisis,
even if it's incredibly difficult,
(06:13):
I believe and I have faith that there is in that moment already the seeds of
the reconciling force that are planted.
They're planted in the soil and the potential of the exact moment of pain,
of the conflict. and a person doing the ship's approach, helping somebody else
(06:36):
this way, we can trust that.
We can trust that in that moment, there are already seeds available that that
person can start to cultivate and we can help them cultivate the seeds.
And there are certain ways to do that. But when we can, when we can tap into
the power of that reconciling force,
(06:57):
hidden third force, when we can do that, then all of a sudden,
well, okay, not all of a sudden, usually it's not all of a sudden,
but it does create the environment where something new, something novel can
arise up. And it's usually surprising.
(07:19):
It's usually something you can never force. And it is is ultimately very satisfying.
And it's satisfying, not because it is a somehow synthesis or a middle ground
between the affirming force and denying force,
but rather it brings us to a whole new level, another dimension,
(07:41):
if you will, of transformation.
So we're not talking about a lateral move, but rather a transformational move.
Okay and we can talk a little
bit about what that looks like but here
here are two ways that i have been
(08:02):
using hope to help midwife that third force that reconciling force i'm going
to invite all of us here to consider that and see if it might be useful we want
to inquire about the values of somebody,
inquire about the value.
(08:23):
And in one way that I tried to do that is I asked the person to imagine that
they had passed away and were able to witness their funeral.
And after the funeral, they could see their loved ones gathered around and sharing
with each other how much they meant to them.
So what would be three things that they would really hope that their loved ones would say?
(08:45):
And then I'm going to read the next one too. And then I'm actually going to
ask somebody, buddy, if maybe we could, we might volunteer and we can talk about it for a second.
So the next way to help people find their value system is think about two people whom you really admire.
Think about why you admire them.
(09:05):
Think about the kind of character these people have, especially in the face
of conflict or contrast.
And if you could name three or four things that they come that come to mind
about why you admire these people what would they be what would they be okay
so i am going to ask if somebody would volunteer and we'll just,
(09:32):
kind of talk a little bit about the value system the three values and if you
don't know them that's fine.
That's what the that's what the point of this exercise is. Would somebody like to volunteer?
If not, I'm going to point to a person.
And I'm going to ask if Fred, Fred, would you be? Are you there?
(09:59):
Hey, Brad's gone. Hey. Are you there? Hey. Hey, buddy. Hey, guys. Hey, everybody.
It's so good to see you. Could I ask you a question?
Sure. Okay. If you had passed away, God forbid,
but if you passed away and you were at your funeral as a spirit and you saw
(10:21):
your loved ones sitting around talking about how you touched them, How you made them feel,
how you inspired them.
And so they're only saying good things here.
What would be three things you really hope they say about you?
What might be the first thing? Oh, wow. What a great question. Oh, man.
(10:44):
I've been kind of thinking something similar on these lines of,
I feel that the greatest, the sense of meaning that I meant a lot to them.
And I've been thinking around this and trying to put words to the actual concept
(11:06):
and thinking, what do I mean to those who are closest to me?
And so yeah we want to ask like what would you hope that they would say about
you so i would say that i would i would say that they would say.
(11:28):
I love and appreciate his authenticity.
So you're hoping often authenticity would be what they would say. That would be one value.
Yeah. One value would be authenticity. Good one.
Another one would be a sense of balance and maybe the last one, quirky humor. Good.
(12:00):
Good so we have and i mean and i definitely you know from the spiritual side
and the hard working side those things but i think the top ones would be that the authenticity,
the or at least the strive for balance not saying that oh he was so balanced
or he is so balanced but he strove for it he tried to stay balanced and he and he was he was a a nerd,
(12:27):
he had some funny moments yeah okay
and see the thing is that they you could you
could do whatever spirit spirituality you
dabbled in or whatever if you had
the sounds of the genuine the authenticity if
you were able to live
(12:48):
and strive for balance and harmony and you
did it with a joy a joy of life in your lawn be tall a humor fun well then they
could trust your path they might even want your path you know right it opens
up everything yeah now notice this fred,
(13:10):
try this on for size if if when you have in your own estimation if you find
yourself angry at yourself for whatever reason.
I wonder if one of the reasons why you might be angry or let down by yourself
or judging yourself, say,
if if in some ways you didn't show up in an authentic way or there was a chance
(13:37):
to be more lighthearted and you were kind of heavy.
Or maybe you find yourself not balanced when you could have decided to be more
balanced or lived in a certain way. Did you judge yourself by those three?
Yeah, I see that happening every now and then.
Yeah. In fact, I kind of have to pull myself back into balance today because
(13:58):
yesterday I had a way off day.
I was just talking to my wife about it in this morning and some breath work
and meditation was like, oh, I'm way too harsh on myself.
That's what's been happening. Yeah. Yeah. And then lastly, we often judge others, too.
We find them irritating. If they, in our opinion, violate, in some ways,
(14:25):
the core values, those top three. Absolutely.
Just notice if someone isn't authentic and they're putting on a show or they
stay balanced, but you know they're not, or they are just so serious all the time.
Right. Right. Right. Yeah, I think that's really good. I can see that. Yeah.
(14:51):
And thank you, Fred. Thank you for that, for being willing to walk with me in this one.
What I'd like to share with everybody here is this is something that we just,
it was always existing in Fred's subconscious.
So if you remember the iceberg and right
up the part above the water would be the
(15:13):
conscious mind and the part right
below the water is the subconscious and
then way down below where you can't see
where it gets dark well that would be the unconscious and our
values i think the ones that we are live according to usually are located in
(15:33):
the subconscious but they're kind of like our main filters and but most of the
time we're not conscious of them.
We're not being asked questions. Now, usually, we can get angry,
people are often angry, and they can be resentful.
And they can tell you what bothers them or what they're against.
(15:56):
But the only reason why something bothers them and the only reason why they
might be against something is because they have a metric, a measuring system
that's located, again, in the subconscious.
And they may not be aware of it, but they're finding their reality in some ways,
the catalysts that are coming into them.
(16:18):
They're finding a way to judge reality so that it's not matching in their opinion,
matching the core values that they have, or they're not matching them.
This is causing an irritation and people are, we are much easier and quicker
to express that anger and bellicosity.
(16:40):
But if we can help people it's just
the simple ways that we just did with fred and is we
just simply bring what was on the subconscious and
what was has been there since day one you know if we can bring that up into
the conscious mind and then all of a sudden a person starts to become aware
(17:01):
of how was my immediate react response to something that's coming to me.
How is that in line with my core values?
And can I respond rather than react to something that might even be conflictual?
And if we invite people to bring to conscious mind their values,
(17:25):
they have a much greater chance to make decisions on how to respond.
What do you guys think about this?
Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Martha.
I'm wondering, Doug, if they're at the subconscious and you literally can't, you know what I mean?
(17:46):
Bringing them to conscious awareness to verbalize them.
I was trying to think. I thought of one thing.
Well, Barbara, let me ask you this. Can you think of two people in your life
that you admire? I can, one came immediately to my mind and actually two people did.
(18:10):
I can think of two people. Oh, you're going to do it's a revert.
Okay. I mean, you know, let's just go there.
So take one of those people and can you find some, what is it about that person,
their character that you find you admire?
Mire this person first of
(18:31):
all her she has an unwavering faith
i mean it's unwavering it's deep
it's devoted it's true she's her heart is
so pure she is so genuine in
her giving and her caring about others and
she just exudes love you
(18:54):
know she really does but what i heard there
Barbara is I heard the word faith and I know from our media sessions here I'm
building for that concept of faith is it's so intriguing to you you know you
love that we have faith we have love exudes love.
(19:18):
And would you think that this person is optimistic or maybe chooses?
My gosh, talk about the word hope.
I mean, what she's endured, she is very optimistic.
She seems to live without fear, fearless, because she just doesn't see it. Yeah.
(19:41):
There you have somebody who's choosing, as Ra would say in the Law of One material,
to receive catalysts that are even difficult and receive them from the lens
of even this, whatever this is, belong.
And I'm going to trust it has a meaning in my life.
Absolutely. So there you go. There's three. Hope, we've got love, and we have faith.
(20:10):
Faith, hope, and love. Ha! There you go. That's pretty good.
And then you... Go ahead. No, I wasn't going to say anything.
Yeah. So, anyways, this is really, really helpful because we can...
People that we admire, we often admire them because we feel on a certain level
(20:32):
that they They have in the overt expression what we have in a latent form.
Now, we may not think we have a lot of faith, or maybe we don't feel like we
love as much as we want, or we tend to be more pessimistic and there's less
hope, that kind of thing.
But the truth is is that we
(20:55):
would have all of those and whatever we see in somebody else that we really
really admire and value it's because that person actually has what you have
in abundance it just needs to be it's like in reserves or it's in latent or
it's in potential form but it's there.
(21:17):
Yeah good okay thank
you thank you we're gonna
move on thanks for sharing everybody appreciate that and let's go to another
way yeah so here we go helping others inquiring about their values we help the
other use their values to more intentionally inform their behavior right so So for example,
(21:42):
if my value is generosity and I am finding myself to be real stingy right now in my presence,
like I don't want to give my presence, I'm really tired or I.
Maybe I'm upset at somebody and I don't want to be around them right now,
but they're asking for my help.
And there's lots of ways to be stingy, say, and not generous.
(22:06):
But if my value is generosity, then I can hold it at the forefront of my mind.
And at the same time, stop and evaluate how I'm wanting to act.
And then ask myself, in what way do
I want to actually live from the power the energy
(22:26):
of my value because here's the
crazy thing when i dug
and i've done this when i can if i'm
feeling depleted but i want to act from
a place that's in accordance with maybe one of my values if i can picture in
my head that that value all of a sudden grows and i am and i see myself self
(22:52):
actually responding from the very energy of that value,
maybe I can pretend the value or visualize the value of having a certain color.
And if I start to feel like about the energy, the way I'm responding to this
catalyst, I want to be able for that energetics of that response to be matching
and coming from that value.
(23:14):
The weirdest thing, find out for yourself, The
weirdest thing is that I find myself shifting immediately into a kind of way
to engage that I didn't have the strength for or even believe I could a moment before that.
(23:34):
And it kind of reminds me of what Paul the Apostle or St.
Paul says, no longer I, but Christ who lives within me.
That there's something bigger, a love greater than I. my little false self that's
coming in and through me and sounding through my action.
And I'm always more energetic too. So try it out on your own.
(24:01):
Ask people, like, okay, so you're a mother with your kid. This is your value. Let's say it, patience.
How do you envision being patient tonight when you go home with your kids?
And we know your kids bother you, especially your youngest one.
I'm just making this up. Like your youngest one, I know that you guys clap.
(24:26):
Lap, but how do you want to live out patience today with her in the exactly
tonight when you go home, you know, ask these open-ended questions can be really, really helpful.
Another one that I want to share with you that is also really powerful.
And I do this with several of my clients and I've done it with myself and boy,
(24:46):
does this thing, this is crazy this is really crazy that is invite the person
to do a little visualization with you and they can close their eyes if you're
in a situation where you can and ask them to visualize.
(25:07):
That in five years or one year you know you can 20 years doesn't matter you
can kind of get a gut instinct or intuit what time span might be helpful.
And you can kind of say in the future from five years from now,
say right now where you're standing,
if you were to visualize the future, there's like a wave of potentiality that
(25:33):
spans the spectrum between the most toxic and an unhealthy,
rigid, and compulsive way that you could be in five years, all the way to the
most life-giving, the highest and greatest fullness of who you are,
(25:53):
that you've struggled through life because life is difficult the next five years,
but you have lived the wholeness to your greatest integrity, and that exists too.
And what i try to do then is i try to
invite them to connect with their
future self that self that is
(26:15):
the highest and greatest version the highest and greatest fullness the highest
and greatest wholeness which is holy holiness right the highest and greatest
version of themselves in five years
and start to vision where maybe an environment where that person is at.
Look at their faith, to see the kindness in the eye.
(26:40):
And what's really cool is once you kind of get the person with whom you're doing
this to get locked in on that future self, then you can actually ask the future self some questions.
Now, of course, there's the cosmic laws of free will, So there can't be any
immediate things that are given in terms of you should do this and not that.
(27:06):
But what I would say, and this has been true with my client and true for myself, is that if you ask,
if you're up against a decision that seems to be difficult to understand or discern what path to go,
and you're connecting with this future self.
And you ask the future self, how did you feel when you were making this decision?
(27:33):
And we made the decision, how did you feel about it? And how did you feel the next month about it?
You see, you can kind of get into the intuition of it all, the feeling.
It's almost as if you're asking, what was the temperature of the water once you made the decision?
How did it feel to to kind of wade in that, to allow the flow of time to take
(27:58):
you towards the highest and greatest version.
How was that flow? So you can kind of ask like, what was the feeling?
And sometimes you can get a response.
It might be subtle, it might be very nuanced, but you can get a sense,
an intuitive feeling that this would be the right attempt.
(28:20):
This would be the right decision for right now.
So I just want to invite that as a pretty neat little trick,
a visual trick to present self to connect intentionally with the future self
in the panoply, in the spectrum of potential.
Potential and visualize the highest and greatest fullness and connect with that person.
(28:46):
So that's a pretty cool way to do it. Okay.
Now we're going to move on to process. We're going to move on to processing.
I'm going to read out loud several different models of process and we can maybe
Maybe talk about some of those.
Okay, so Brian McLaren, who is somebody that I really admire and learn from,
(29:10):
he has taken Richard Rohr's model of order, disorder, and reorder.
That's one that Richard uses a lot. And he expounded and created one more and
he changed the verbiage. And so it goes like this.
(29:32):
Simplicity, complexity, perplexity, and harmony.
And so we're going to come back to several of these to unpack them,
but I'll keep reading. Here's another one.
Received tradition or received culture, received tradition, deconstruction, and reconstruction.
(29:59):
Okay. The next one is something that is often taught in group dynamics,
but I think it's true in terms of friendships and relationships.
Or when you meet people at workplaces, other kinds of ways to see relationship unfolding.
(30:19):
And that is forming, storming, norming, and performing.
Okay, and we're going to come back to that too. And then one that I've been
using a lot lately that I really like, and this is borrowing from the work of
Steve McIntosh and others.
And this would be the pre-modern, the modern, the post-modern,
(30:44):
and the post-post-modern.
Or sometimes it's referred to the meta-modern or the integral.
And if you're familiar with the biodynamics framework, the meta-modern or integral
would be the yellow or the second tier.
So there might be a couple of us here that are more familiar with biodynamics. dynamics.
(31:06):
And then one of the things that I learned from Richard Rourke too, was this idea of.
Breath is always going to be three steps forward and two steps back,
three steps forward and two steps back.
And just trust that if you're living with integrity and you're tapping into
that value system more intentionally,
(31:29):
then even the two steps back, they feel painful,
but they're actually the very thing that
gets you back on the ground so that you can ready yourself to leap back up into
the air because you're not going to be doing any more leaping any more jumping
into the next stair unless you're back on the ground and then you know squatting
(31:51):
and then going springing off,
okay so three steps forward two steps back another thing that is interesting about process is.
Especially for us who are maybe in perplex perplexity with loved ones or friends who are,
they live within, from within a worldview that we find mystified, that they're there,
(32:19):
that the way that they make meaning is surprising to us.
And we might feel that we can logic them out of it.
You know, if we just shared the right research, or if we just shared them even
more text proving that they're full of crap, that never works.
(32:42):
As it wouldn't work with you or with me, because it wasn't logic that got the
other person into that worldview.
And it wouldn't be logic that helps them transcend it, right? Right.
The only thing that really helps people transcend unhelpful and more rigid worldviews
is, to be honest, solidarity,
(33:04):
hope, trusting the process, letting them know you're walking with them.
That is how we actually move us, just like it would be working for you,
works for me, moving us into a greater spaciousness, this relationality.
And something else, and I'll stop here with the process and say that the way
(33:29):
I think this is borrowing from good counseling technique as a counselor,
it's borrowing from the Jesuit spiritual exercises, which I really love.
This is borrowing from the Franciscan tradition, too.
I think it's borrowing from a lot of different traditions, to be honest,
but they call it wholly indifferent.
(33:51):
Wholly indifferent. Now, the law of one material certainly says this as well,
you might remember, but wholly indifferent would be this idea that.
Saying yes, you're married, yes, may it be done unto me according to the will
(34:11):
of the one infinite creator.
I'm going to birth this wholeness, this Christ consciousness.
I'm going to say yes to this to be an activist in this area.
I'm going to say yes to maybe even fighting against injustice in in some way.
But I'm also going to do so with a deeper sense of holy indifference.
(34:41):
And what I mean by that is, I am not going to feel that my little acts in this
action are that important.
Can I maintain humility here?
Also, I'm not going to allow whether I'm successful or not to define me.
And I'm not going to be attached to the outcome.
(35:04):
Because if all of those things are true and I am attached, or I am going to
see myself as important or not important or successful or not successful,
depending upon whether my acts make a difference, my little Doug action make a difference.
If I'm going to do that, then it certainly wasn't the true self that was doing
(35:24):
it it certainly wasn't the christ self inside of the buddha self it was my false
self and even though i might be real high on the endorphins that come from so-called success.
It's going to become an addiction where i need more and more success.
(35:45):
So that I ensconced myself inside the false self system of power,
prestige, and possession.
And really flip into the negative polarity.
Because I need more and more wins to make that happen.
The holy indifference is an important posture, I think, for a person doing the ship's approach.
(36:07):
Approach when we're engaging with somebody else is to love them,
but not be dependent, our sense of self not dependent.
And I'll just add this little parentheses here is how I might say this to a
client, for example, is let's say the client really wants to have a conversation,
(36:28):
a difficult one with maybe their parent that could take the place of a verbal communication,
or it could be a letter.
Often I'm asking people to write letters to people that they want to set boundaries with.
And what I make sure I share is I say, listen,
the success of this whole endeavor of you writing a letter is not dependent
(36:55):
upon their reaction to your letter, that they change.
That's not the measurement of your success.
The success here is actually that you wrote the letter with this highest and
greatest integrity and good faith. That is how we measure the success.
So that would be an example of holy indifference. Okay. So we have Martha asking a question.
(37:20):
So I'm going to go ahead and invite Martha here.
Martha, what would you like to say? I just want to ask a question about the
three questions of what you would want to hear at our funeral.
My first one has always been I wanted people to say I made them laugh.
The second one was I wanted them to say I was anonymous to the fault.
(37:46):
And then the third one was I wanted them to say that because I lived,
I made the person a better place.
Would you figure out from that what my value system is?
Well, actually, I think you said it better than I could say it.
I mean, what I heard you say is you thought humor, humor and being funny,
(38:11):
laughing in the face of pain, bringing somebody up.
I think humor is a very strong value for you.
I think you said honesty to a fault, honest to a fault.
I think honesty, authenticity, integrity, those are all the same kind of thing.
(38:32):
But let's just say honesty, that is the second core value here that I heard you say.
And then the last one I heard you say was that you left the world a better place
or you left that person a better place in a better situation than when you.
Is that right? I think it's great. I think it's wonderful.
(38:54):
I think that speaks to your desire to transform negativity and not transmit it.
So what I would say is your hope is that you gave people hope in the midst of
pain, or you are a transformer.
(39:18):
Yeah. What do you think about those three? Makes sense. It makes sense.
I appreciate it. Yeah, of course.
Okay. Does anybody have, like, as we're talking here on these three,
these different value system or the process, was there one that you liked?
You can just raise your hand here in the little electronic thing and we can move on.
(39:44):
But was there one that you kind of liked?
It's Pete here. Hey, so I thought the holy indifference thing was interesting
because this is a process when we're interacting with someone and what we would
hope to be is an evolutionary way for both of us.
(40:04):
And I find that a big barrier for me is that I have expectations of either changing
the person or not being rejected by the person or being accepted by the person.
So I think the idea of holy indifference is very important.
And very hard right you know very hard because
(40:25):
if you don't you know if you don't go through the
the first part of the process of solidarity and hope
completely and you know
someone is has values or
a perspective into life that grates
on me if they don't
(40:46):
change i'm not you know i'm not
going to be you know i'm going to judge him and if you're judging someone you're
in a passive aggressive situation and you're you know it's not good and so the
holy indifference i think is is a real it's a grace it's a form of grace if
you could do it and it's only possible.
(41:09):
Because you have been graced by somebody else or your experience of god but the sense that,
you were given the space to go at your own pace. Right. You got it.
Your pace might be real fast, but if we're looking at someone else,
(41:30):
you're trying to help someone else who, for a myriad of reasons,
and if we're going to include metaphysics, I mean, we're talking lifetime,
just this lifetime, right?
But myriad of reasons, their pacing is different.
Not better, not worse, but different. and we're giving them the same grace,
(41:51):
the same mercy that we ourselves always must feel if we're going to do holy and different.
The other thing is, is we may not be right in our perception of the other person,
the situation, you know, we're using, you know, limited values that are more
about our own issues and not fully understanding,
(42:13):
as you said, the evolutionary trajectory of the other person and accepting it.
I have to pray for it, to be honest. I have to pray for it, especially if I'm with somebody,
none of my practice, I don't, it It seems easy for me to have grace in that,
but with people that I know that I feel like, you know, haven't we had this conversation before,
(42:36):
like a million times or in what other way can I say this for this to make sense?
I realized the very frustration that I have is more about in that moment,
the more about my own sense of okayness and worthiness or something that they
(43:01):
need to take up what I'm saying and change.
And if they're not doing it, then that's a problem for me. And I'm not going
to feel that, so I'm going to project that back onto them and be angry with
them. I think that's exactly it.
Yeah, I'm not saying there's not a time to be frustrated. I'm not saying that
there's not a time to feel frustration.
(43:22):
This is an art form, you know. But ultimately, the greatest healers,
I would argue the greatest spiritual masters that you and I might really admire,
both ancient and new, are ones who really embodied this fully and different,
to allow the space for another to walk their path with integrity. What do you think?
(43:49):
It's called holding sacred space for somebody you
know witnessing them and rather
you know it's a form of witnessing and seeing
someone in a very open pure
hearted way which is not easy because
you know we all have our own glasses on and
maybe we we do believe that and we you
(44:11):
know that there needs to be some dialogue and some
you know you know especially if it's an intimate person
someone one we've known since we were born or in our family you
know and so that's it's you know it's a
matter of relevancy how relevant is the
interaction with this person based on your history and so
you may be impelled to interact with them but if
(44:34):
you can do it even with this graceful indifference
then you can you know
it's equal to support the person
and to honor them and to say how great they
are or it's going to be no different if you feel you
have to give them a different reflection on who they are than maybe they have
(44:56):
yeah and and then the way i know that i'm i'm doing the holy indifference is
after the person after i've engaged with the person and i'm,
and we've ended that particular engagement that particular encounter there's an energy of.
A looseness, a forward momentum, a, hey, you know, I can't wait to hear about
(45:23):
your success next time we see each other.
Or I really admire the things that you are doing and I'm here for you if you
want to reach out when you want to reach out.
You know what I mean? So there's an openness and a forward fluid where you can
sort of intuit that flow.
I'm going to move to Martha No, let's see, we have Martha and Neil.
(45:45):
Let's do Neil first, Neil.
Just thinking of the holy indifference and maybe connecting it with like the St.
Francis prayer and trying to get an idea of like using that as an affirmation
to get in that headspace.
Oh, well, the St. Francis prayer is, I have three major prayers that I love.
(46:09):
St. Francis prayer, the prayer of serenity.
God grant me the courage to change the things that I can. The serenity to accept
the things that I cannot change and the wisdom to know the difference,
you know, some form of that.
And then also, of course, the our father is one of those two.
(46:31):
But, yeah, I think that's exactly right. You really need to embody this sense
of I'm going to be an instrument here for the highest and greatest good. And it's not about me.
Martha, real quick. I didn't have a question or anything else.
I was trying to put it on mute or something and accidentally erased it.
(46:51):
Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. All right. We're going to move on.
And here, service obviously is incredibly important.
And again, it's the wind that takes the boat forward.
So I almost, I try to almost always ask. It's not every time that I remember, but I always try to ask.
(47:15):
The person with whom I'm doing the SHIPS approach to what form of service would
they like to do between now and the next time we see each other that is above
the transactional energy.
So I asked the person, the other person, like what they want to do in terms
of an active service, if not today, tomorrow. But I asked them, like.
(47:41):
Soon as possible. I try to get them to verbalize something today.
But if they don't, if they can't today for some reason, what day this week?
I ask them to name the service.
Because a lot of times we humans, myself, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. I'll do it.
I will do some service. But if I'm not challenged to actually verbalize that,
(48:04):
then it stays forever in the subconscious
and sort of the realm of the potential but never
get to tap so we have to ask people to
name what they would do and when they would do it
and ask them if it would be okay if you
checked back in with them you know in one week a couple of days and be specific
(48:25):
about it and you want to see how that active service went you see so i'll say
all right cool well i love what you're going to say you know you're going to
help your mom cook on Wednesday.
Awesome. So next time I see you next Friday, I'm going to ask how it went.
And I'm really excited to hear about how things went between you and your mom
(48:48):
and how your mom felt about it.
But whenever I become very specific like that.
Response. And I have to say, this alone, when we invite others to do service,
it taps into that cosmic law that it is in giving that we receive.
That if you want to keep it, you have to give it away.
(49:11):
If you want to keep your value of loyalty or value of honesty,
you have to give your honesty and loyalty away in the sense that you have to
embody it, incarnate it in a practiced manner further than the conceptual.
And then, of course, the law of one material says that there's a cosmic law.
(49:33):
It's connected to karma, and that is the law of responsibility.
And basically, what Ross says is that
to whatever degree that you and I conceptually
understand something or even a
gnosis like if you have a psychedelic experience
that brings you into like this incredible munitive consciousness
(49:55):
if if you and i don't
incarnate that embody that bring
it to the level of the immediacy of our space
time experience and third density
if you and i don't do it because the responsibility
is there now cosmically and
karmically if you and i don't do it then it actually creates the energetic environment
(50:20):
that becomes more difficult to polarize in the future in other words if you
don't give it away you lose it if you give it away way, you keep it and it grows.
So if we want to be happy, we give, we make other people happy.
If you want joy, do acts of joyous service.
(50:45):
Yeah. And so that's just something I want to end with here is the sense of service.
That's such an important piece. All right. Well, that is part three.
That is all of the, the ships approach.
I just want to thank you, my lovely group, my lovely community here to let be,
(51:07):
be your, your, my community and my bring out the energy.
So thank you so much. Was this helpful today or did you guys like it? Yeah. Good.
To the degree that you can, please close your eyes if you're sitting up.
Make sure that both feet are on the ground.
And see if you can visualize drawing upon the power of the earth.
That the earth is not separate from us, but is us and is the ground of us.
(00:23):
If you can see and feel energy coming in through your lower chakras and picture
the energy going through each chakra.
So now, the orange one, see it when the energy comes into each chakra,
see the chakra glow of the color of its ray, and make a really pleasant,
(00:50):
beautiful noise as it crystallizes.
Let's move it to the orange beam up
to the yellow into the heart
green just feel and welcome the energy moving up and feel it in the throat as
(01:11):
it brightens up the blue ray feel it moving up into to your sixth chakra,
the indigo ray, you might feel pressure or a tickle.
Look, if you don't, you might, between your eyes, and then the very top of your head, the violet ray.
(01:34):
Feel it opening and going out into the world and see it connecting with all the rest of us.
Together, we're forming this great thought form, this great blessing that we
bless all of those who might hear this recording in the future.
(01:55):
For those of us here and for the whole world, we ask that our little endeavor.
Solidarity and hope and trusting the process, inspiring service,
that this spirituality Spirituality be a blessing to all those who wish to help others.
(02:18):
And we thank you for the opportunity. Amen. All right. Very good.
Well, we're going to get started.
And you may remember last week, for those of us who were here,
we had talked about that we had gone through ships.
And we remember the I stands for entering the view of the other.
(02:42):
Solidarity is the first one. and I'd just like to kind of offer this little
way perhaps to understand the order, maybe even of the importance of the different letters.
I'd like to say that solidarity might be the ship itself.
(03:03):
So if you can imagine the entire ship, the container that floats, that's solidarity.
So we can't really help others in terms of cultivating hope
or trusting process or inspiring service
we can't do those things unless we have connected with
the other person and that we want to
(03:24):
connect with the other person so that's like the container
itself and then hope could be
the the different
things that make a ship go you know you might have things like the sale and
the food the sailors all the things that go into making a ship typical,
(03:53):
floatable for people to live on there and then maybe we can understand the p
P, which is trusting the process,
we can understand the P as, I think, the captain and captains and all the different
people that are working in the ship.
And then lastly, the S, I think, would be the wind that allows this whole thing to go forward.
(04:20):
So you can see without the ship, without solidarity, nothing happens.
But then once you have the ship, we need to sail it.
And so then we have hope and process P and then S for inspiring service at the end. Okay.
(04:40):
So we had talked about solidarity last time, and we had talked also a little
bit about hope last time.
And what I wanted to review really quickly was this idea that hope is a feeling.
It's a feeling as well as a reality.
And a lot of us feel like we don't have a lot of hope or you might be with somebody and,
(05:07):
maybe they have a lot of anger or maybe they have a lot of pain you know and
right now especially in our post-modern culture a lot of people talk about this
thing called the crisis of meaning the meaning crisis.
And it's often connected with this sense of where's the hope?
(05:28):
What is hope? And hope towards what?
But I believe, and I'm not saying it's right, but try it on for yourself,
that hope is actually connected to the cosmic law of three.
Now, remember, the law of three says that there's an affirming force,
and then there's a denying force,
(05:50):
and that when we have a kind of conflict that we can't seem to get over,
and we may feel like we can never
get over it, maybe we feel like it's incredibly difficult in some way.
And I'm taking this through faith here because I have faith that in every crisis,
even if it's incredibly difficult,
(06:13):
I believe and I have faith that there is in that moment already the seeds of
the reconciling force that are planted.
They're planted in the soil and the potential of the exact moment of pain,
of the conflict. and a person doing the ship's approach, helping somebody else
(06:36):
this way, we can trust that.
We can trust that in that moment, there are already seeds available that that
person can start to cultivate and we can help them cultivate the seeds.
And there are certain ways to do that. But when we can, when we can tap into
the power of that reconciling force,
(06:57):
hidden third force, when we can do that, then all of a sudden,
well, okay, not all of a sudden, usually it's not all of a sudden,
but it does create the environment where something new, something novel can
arise up. And it's usually surprising.
(07:19):
It's usually something you can never force. And it is is ultimately very satisfying.
And it's satisfying, not because it is a somehow synthesis or a middle ground
between the affirming force and denying force,
but rather it brings us to a whole new level, another dimension,
(07:41):
if you will, of transformation.
So we're not talking about a lateral move, but rather a transformational move.
Okay and we can talk a little
bit about what that looks like but here
here are two ways that i have been
(08:02):
using hope to help midwife that third force that reconciling force i'm going
to invite all of us here to consider that and see if it might be useful we want
to inquire about the values of somebody,
inquire about the value.
(08:23):
And in one way that I tried to do that is I asked the person to imagine that
they had passed away and were able to witness their funeral.
And after the funeral, they could see their loved ones gathered around and sharing
with each other how much they meant to them.
So what would be three things that they would really hope that their loved ones would say?
(08:45):
And then I'm going to read the next one too. And then I'm actually going to
ask somebody, buddy, if maybe we could, we might volunteer and we can talk about it for a second.
So the next way to help people find their value system is think about two people whom you really admire.
Think about why you admire them.
(09:05):
Think about the kind of character these people have, especially in the face
of conflict or contrast.
And if you could name three or four things that they come that come to mind
about why you admire these people what would they be what would they be okay
so i am going to ask if somebody would volunteer and we'll just,
(09:32):
kind of talk a little bit about the value system the three values and if you
don't know them that's fine.
That's what the that's what the point of this exercise is. Would somebody like to volunteer?
If not, I'm going to point to a person.
And I'm going to ask if Fred, Fred, would you be? Are you there?
(09:59):
Hey, Brad's gone. Hey. Are you there? Hey. Hey, buddy. Hey, guys. Hey, everybody.
It's so good to see you. Could I ask you a question?
Sure. Okay. If you had passed away, God forbid,
but if you passed away and you were at your funeral as a spirit and you saw
(10:21):
your loved ones sitting around talking about how you touched them, How you made them feel,
how you inspired them.
And so they're only saying good things here.
What would be three things you really hope they say about you?
What might be the first thing? Oh, wow. What a great question. Oh, man.
(10:44):
I've been kind of thinking something similar on these lines of,
I feel that the greatest, the sense of meaning that I meant a lot to them.
And I've been thinking around this and trying to put words to the actual concept
(11:06):
and thinking, what do I mean to those who are closest to me?
And so yeah we want to ask like what would you hope that they would say about
you so i would say that i would i would say that they would say.
(11:28):
I love and appreciate his authenticity.
So you're hoping often authenticity would be what they would say. That would be one value.
Yeah. One value would be authenticity. Good one.
Another one would be a sense of balance and maybe the last one, quirky humor. Good.
(12:00):
Good so we have and i mean and i definitely you know from the spiritual side
and the hard working side those things but i think the top ones would be that the authenticity,
the or at least the strive for balance not saying that oh he was so balanced
or he is so balanced but he strove for it he tried to stay balanced and he and he was he was a a nerd,
(12:27):
he had some funny moments yeah okay
and see the thing is that they you could you
could do whatever spirit spirituality you
dabbled in or whatever if you had
the sounds of the genuine the authenticity if
you were able to live
(12:48):
and strive for balance and harmony and you
did it with a joy a joy of life in your lawn be tall a humor fun well then they
could trust your path they might even want your path you know right it opens
up everything yeah now notice this fred,
(13:10):
try this on for size if if when you have in your own estimation if you find
yourself angry at yourself for whatever reason.
I wonder if one of the reasons why you might be angry or let down by yourself
or judging yourself, say,
if if in some ways you didn't show up in an authentic way or there was a chance
(13:37):
to be more lighthearted and you were kind of heavy.
Or maybe you find yourself not balanced when you could have decided to be more
balanced or lived in a certain way. Did you judge yourself by those three?
Yeah, I see that happening every now and then.
Yeah. In fact, I kind of have to pull myself back into balance today because
(13:58):
yesterday I had a way off day.
I was just talking to my wife about it in this morning and some breath work
and meditation was like, oh, I'm way too harsh on myself.
That's what's been happening. Yeah. Yeah. And then lastly, we often judge others, too.
We find them irritating. If they, in our opinion, violate, in some ways,
(14:25):
the core values, those top three. Absolutely.
Just notice if someone isn't authentic and they're putting on a show or they
stay balanced, but you know they're not, or they are just so serious all the time.
Right. Right. Right. Yeah, I think that's really good. I can see that. Yeah.
(14:51):
And thank you, Fred. Thank you for that, for being willing to walk with me in this one.
What I'd like to share with everybody here is this is something that we just,
it was always existing in Fred's subconscious.
So if you remember the iceberg and right
up the part above the water would be the
(15:13):
conscious mind and the part right
below the water is the subconscious and
then way down below where you can't see
where it gets dark well that would be the unconscious and our
values i think the ones that we are live according to usually are located in
(15:33):
the subconscious but they're kind of like our main filters and but most of the
time we're not conscious of them.
We're not being asked questions. Now, usually, we can get angry,
people are often angry, and they can be resentful.
And they can tell you what bothers them or what they're against.
(15:56):
But the only reason why something bothers them and the only reason why they
might be against something is because they have a metric, a measuring system
that's located, again, in the subconscious.
And they may not be aware of it, but they're finding their reality in some ways,
the catalysts that are coming into them.
(16:18):
They're finding a way to judge reality so that it's not matching in their opinion,
matching the core values that they have, or they're not matching them.
This is causing an irritation and people are, we are much easier and quicker
to express that anger and bellicosity.
(16:40):
But if we can help people it's just
the simple ways that we just did with fred and is we
just simply bring what was on the subconscious and
what was has been there since day one you know if we can bring that up into
the conscious mind and then all of a sudden a person starts to become aware
(17:01):
of how was my immediate react response to something that's coming to me.
How is that in line with my core values?
And can I respond rather than react to something that might even be conflictual?
And if we invite people to bring to conscious mind their values,
(17:25):
they have a much greater chance to make decisions on how to respond.
What do you guys think about this?
Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Martha.
I'm wondering, Doug, if they're at the subconscious and you literally can't, you know what I mean?
(17:46):
Bringing them to conscious awareness to verbalize them.
I was trying to think. I thought of one thing.
Well, Barbara, let me ask you this. Can you think of two people in your life
that you admire? I can, one came immediately to my mind and actually two people did.
(18:10):
I can think of two people. Oh, you're going to do it's a revert.
Okay. I mean, you know, let's just go there.
So take one of those people and can you find some, what is it about that person,
their character that you find you admire?
Mire this person first of
(18:31):
all her she has an unwavering faith
i mean it's unwavering it's deep
it's devoted it's true she's her heart is
so pure she is so genuine in
her giving and her caring about others and
she just exudes love you
(18:54):
know she really does but what i heard there
Barbara is I heard the word faith and I know from our media sessions here I'm
building for that concept of faith is it's so intriguing to you you know you
love that we have faith we have love exudes love.
(19:18):
And would you think that this person is optimistic or maybe chooses?
My gosh, talk about the word hope.
I mean, what she's endured, she is very optimistic.
She seems to live without fear, fearless, because she just doesn't see it. Yeah.
(19:41):
There you have somebody who's choosing, as Ra would say in the Law of One material,
to receive catalysts that are even difficult and receive them from the lens
of even this, whatever this is, belong.
And I'm going to trust it has a meaning in my life.
Absolutely. So there you go. There's three. Hope, we've got love, and we have faith.
(20:10):
Faith, hope, and love. Ha! There you go. That's pretty good.
And then you... Go ahead. No, I wasn't going to say anything.
Yeah. So, anyways, this is really, really helpful because we can...
People that we admire, we often admire them because we feel on a certain level
(20:32):
that they They have in the overt expression what we have in a latent form.
Now, we may not think we have a lot of faith, or maybe we don't feel like we
love as much as we want, or we tend to be more pessimistic and there's less
hope, that kind of thing.
But the truth is is that we
(20:55):
would have all of those and whatever we see in somebody else that we really
really admire and value it's because that person actually has what you have
in abundance it just needs to be it's like in reserves or it's in latent or
it's in potential form but it's there.
(21:17):
Yeah good okay thank
you thank you we're gonna
move on thanks for sharing everybody appreciate that and let's go to another
way yeah so here we go helping others inquiring about their values we help the
other use their values to more intentionally inform their behavior right so So for example,
(21:42):
if my value is generosity and I am finding myself to be real stingy right now in my presence,
like I don't want to give my presence, I'm really tired or I.
Maybe I'm upset at somebody and I don't want to be around them right now,
but they're asking for my help.
And there's lots of ways to be stingy, say, and not generous.
(22:06):
But if my value is generosity, then I can hold it at the forefront of my mind.
And at the same time, stop and evaluate how I'm wanting to act.
And then ask myself, in what way do
I want to actually live from the power the energy
(22:26):
of my value because here's the
crazy thing when i dug
and i've done this when i can if i'm
feeling depleted but i want to act from
a place that's in accordance with maybe one of my values if i can picture in
my head that that value all of a sudden grows and i am and i see myself self
(22:52):
actually responding from the very energy of that value,
maybe I can pretend the value or visualize the value of having a certain color.
And if I start to feel like about the energy, the way I'm responding to this
catalyst, I want to be able for that energetics of that response to be matching
and coming from that value.
(23:14):
The weirdest thing, find out for yourself, The
weirdest thing is that I find myself shifting immediately into a kind of way
to engage that I didn't have the strength for or even believe I could a moment before that.
(23:34):
And it kind of reminds me of what Paul the Apostle or St.
Paul says, no longer I, but Christ who lives within me.
That there's something bigger, a love greater than I. my little false self that's
coming in and through me and sounding through my action.
And I'm always more energetic too. So try it out on your own.
(24:01):
Ask people, like, okay, so you're a mother with your kid. This is your value. Let's say it, patience.
How do you envision being patient tonight when you go home with your kids?
And we know your kids bother you, especially your youngest one.
I'm just making this up. Like your youngest one, I know that you guys clap.
(24:26):
Lap, but how do you want to live out patience today with her in the exactly
tonight when you go home, you know, ask these open-ended questions can be really, really helpful.
Another one that I want to share with you that is also really powerful.
And I do this with several of my clients and I've done it with myself and boy,
(24:46):
does this thing, this is crazy this is really crazy that is invite the person
to do a little visualization with you and they can close their eyes if you're
in a situation where you can and ask them to visualize.
(25:07):
That in five years or one year you know you can 20 years doesn't matter you
can kind of get a gut instinct or intuit what time span might be helpful.
And you can kind of say in the future from five years from now,
say right now where you're standing,
if you were to visualize the future, there's like a wave of potentiality that
(25:33):
spans the spectrum between the most toxic and an unhealthy,
rigid, and compulsive way that you could be in five years, all the way to the
most life-giving, the highest and greatest fullness of who you are,
(25:53):
that you've struggled through life because life is difficult the next five years,
but you have lived the wholeness to your greatest integrity, and that exists too.
And what i try to do then is i try to
invite them to connect with their
future self that self that is
(26:15):
the highest and greatest version the highest and greatest fullness the highest
and greatest wholeness which is holy holiness right the highest and greatest
version of themselves in five years
and start to vision where maybe an environment where that person is at.
Look at their faith, to see the kindness in the eye.
(26:40):
And what's really cool is once you kind of get the person with whom you're doing
this to get locked in on that future self, then you can actually ask the future self some questions.
Now, of course, there's the cosmic laws of free will, So there can't be any
immediate things that are given in terms of you should do this and not that.
(27:06):
But what I would say, and this has been true with my client and true for myself, is that if you ask,
if you're up against a decision that seems to be difficult to understand or discern what path to go,
and you're connecting with this future self.
And you ask the future self, how did you feel when you were making this decision?
(27:33):
And we made the decision, how did you feel about it? And how did you feel the next month about it?
You see, you can kind of get into the intuition of it all, the feeling.
It's almost as if you're asking, what was the temperature of the water once you made the decision?
How did it feel to to kind of wade in that, to allow the flow of time to take
(27:58):
you towards the highest and greatest version.
How was that flow? So you can kind of ask like, what was the feeling?
And sometimes you can get a response.
It might be subtle, it might be very nuanced, but you can get a sense,
an intuitive feeling that this would be the right attempt.
(28:20):
This would be the right decision for right now.
So I just want to invite that as a pretty neat little trick,
a visual trick to present self to connect intentionally with the future self
in the panoply, in the spectrum of potential.
Potential and visualize the highest and greatest fullness and connect with that person.
(28:46):
So that's a pretty cool way to do it. Okay.
Now we're going to move on to process. We're going to move on to processing.
I'm going to read out loud several different models of process and we can maybe
Maybe talk about some of those.
Okay, so Brian McLaren, who is somebody that I really admire and learn from,
(29:10):
he has taken Richard Rohr's model of order, disorder, and reorder.
That's one that Richard uses a lot. And he expounded and created one more and
he changed the verbiage. And so it goes like this.
(29:32):
Simplicity, complexity, perplexity, and harmony.
And so we're going to come back to several of these to unpack them,
but I'll keep reading. Here's another one.
Received tradition or received culture, received tradition, deconstruction, and reconstruction.
(29:59):
Okay. The next one is something that is often taught in group dynamics,
but I think it's true in terms of friendships and relationships.
Or when you meet people at workplaces, other kinds of ways to see relationship unfolding.
(30:19):
And that is forming, storming, norming, and performing.
Okay, and we're going to come back to that too. And then one that I've been
using a lot lately that I really like, and this is borrowing from the work of
Steve McIntosh and others.
And this would be the pre-modern, the modern, the post-modern,
(30:44):
and the post-post-modern.
Or sometimes it's referred to the meta-modern or the integral.
And if you're familiar with the biodynamics framework, the meta-modern or integral
would be the yellow or the second tier.
So there might be a couple of us here that are more familiar with biodynamics. dynamics.
(31:06):
And then one of the things that I learned from Richard Rourke too, was this idea of.
Breath is always going to be three steps forward and two steps back,
three steps forward and two steps back.
And just trust that if you're living with integrity and you're tapping into
that value system more intentionally,
(31:29):
then even the two steps back, they feel painful,
but they're actually the very thing that
gets you back on the ground so that you can ready yourself to leap back up into
the air because you're not going to be doing any more leaping any more jumping
into the next stair unless you're back on the ground and then you know squatting
(31:51):
and then going springing off,
okay so three steps forward two steps back another thing that is interesting about process is.
Especially for us who are maybe in perplex perplexity with loved ones or friends who are,
they live within, from within a worldview that we find mystified, that they're there,
(32:19):
that the way that they make meaning is surprising to us.
And we might feel that we can logic them out of it.
You know, if we just shared the right research, or if we just shared them even
more text proving that they're full of crap, that never works.
(32:42):
As it wouldn't work with you or with me, because it wasn't logic that got the
other person into that worldview.
And it wouldn't be logic that helps them transcend it, right? Right.
The only thing that really helps people transcend unhelpful and more rigid worldviews
is, to be honest, solidarity,
(33:04):
hope, trusting the process, letting them know you're walking with them.
That is how we actually move us, just like it would be working for you,
works for me, moving us into a greater spaciousness, this relationality.
And something else, and I'll stop here with the process and say that the way
(33:29):
I think this is borrowing from good counseling technique as a counselor,
it's borrowing from the Jesuit spiritual exercises, which I really love.
This is borrowing from the Franciscan tradition, too.
I think it's borrowing from a lot of different traditions, to be honest,
but they call it wholly indifferent.
(33:51):
Wholly indifferent. Now, the law of one material certainly says this as well,
you might remember, but wholly indifferent would be this idea that.
Saying yes, you're married, yes, may it be done unto me according to the will
(34:11):
of the one infinite creator.
I'm going to birth this wholeness, this Christ consciousness.
I'm going to say yes to this to be an activist in this area.
I'm going to say yes to maybe even fighting against injustice in in some way.
But I'm also going to do so with a deeper sense of holy indifference.
(34:41):
And what I mean by that is, I am not going to feel that my little acts in this
action are that important.
Can I maintain humility here?
Also, I'm not going to allow whether I'm successful or not to define me.
And I'm not going to be attached to the outcome.
(35:04):
Because if all of those things are true and I am attached, or I am going to
see myself as important or not important or successful or not successful,
depending upon whether my acts make a difference, my little Doug action make a difference.
If I'm going to do that, then it certainly wasn't the true self that was doing
(35:24):
it it certainly wasn't the christ self inside of the buddha self it was my false
self and even though i might be real high on the endorphins that come from so-called success.
It's going to become an addiction where i need more and more success.
(35:45):
So that I ensconced myself inside the false self system of power,
prestige, and possession.
And really flip into the negative polarity.
Because I need more and more wins to make that happen.
The holy indifference is an important posture, I think, for a person doing the ship's approach.
(36:07):
Approach when we're engaging with somebody else is to love them,
but not be dependent, our sense of self not dependent.
And I'll just add this little parentheses here is how I might say this to a
client, for example, is let's say the client really wants to have a conversation,
(36:28):
a difficult one with maybe their parent that could take the place of a verbal communication,
or it could be a letter.
Often I'm asking people to write letters to people that they want to set boundaries with.
And what I make sure I share is I say, listen,
the success of this whole endeavor of you writing a letter is not dependent
(36:55):
upon their reaction to your letter, that they change.
That's not the measurement of your success.
The success here is actually that you wrote the letter with this highest and
greatest integrity and good faith. That is how we measure the success.
So that would be an example of holy indifference. Okay. So we have Martha asking a question.
(37:20):
So I'm going to go ahead and invite Martha here.
Martha, what would you like to say? I just want to ask a question about the
three questions of what you would want to hear at our funeral.
My first one has always been I wanted people to say I made them laugh.
The second one was I wanted them to say I was anonymous to the fault.
(37:46):
And then the third one was I wanted them to say that because I lived,
I made the person a better place.
Would you figure out from that what my value system is?
Well, actually, I think you said it better than I could say it.
I mean, what I heard you say is you thought humor, humor and being funny,
(38:11):
laughing in the face of pain, bringing somebody up.
I think humor is a very strong value for you.
I think you said honesty to a fault, honest to a fault.
I think honesty, authenticity, integrity, those are all the same kind of thing.
(38:32):
But let's just say honesty, that is the second core value here that I heard you say.
And then the last one I heard you say was that you left the world a better place
or you left that person a better place in a better situation than when you.
Is that right? I think it's great. I think it's wonderful.
(38:54):
I think that speaks to your desire to transform negativity and not transmit it.
So what I would say is your hope is that you gave people hope in the midst of
pain, or you are a transformer.
(39:18):
Yeah. What do you think about those three? Makes sense. It makes sense.
I appreciate it. Yeah, of course.
Okay. Does anybody have, like, as we're talking here on these three,
these different value system or the process, was there one that you liked?
You can just raise your hand here in the little electronic thing and we can move on.
(39:44):
But was there one that you kind of liked?
It's Pete here. Hey, so I thought the holy indifference thing was interesting
because this is a process when we're interacting with someone and what we would
hope to be is an evolutionary way for both of us.
(40:04):
And I find that a big barrier for me is that I have expectations of either changing
the person or not being rejected by the person or being accepted by the person.
So I think the idea of holy indifference is very important.
And very hard right you know very hard because
(40:25):
if you don't you know if you don't go through the
the first part of the process of solidarity and hope
completely and you know
someone is has values or
a perspective into life that grates
on me if they don't
(40:46):
change i'm not you know i'm not
going to be you know i'm going to judge him and if you're judging someone you're
in a passive aggressive situation and you're you know it's not good and so the
holy indifference i think is is a real it's a grace it's a form of grace if
you could do it and it's only possible.
(41:09):
Because you have been graced by somebody else or your experience of god but the sense that,
you were given the space to go at your own pace. Right. You got it.
Your pace might be real fast, but if we're looking at someone else,
(41:30):
you're trying to help someone else who, for a myriad of reasons,
and if we're going to include metaphysics, I mean, we're talking lifetime,
just this lifetime, right?
But myriad of reasons, their pacing is different.
Not better, not worse, but different. and we're giving them the same grace,
(41:51):
the same mercy that we ourselves always must feel if we're going to do holy and different.
The other thing is, is we may not be right in our perception of the other person,
the situation, you know, we're using, you know, limited values that are more
about our own issues and not fully understanding,
(42:13):
as you said, the evolutionary trajectory of the other person and accepting it.
I have to pray for it, to be honest. I have to pray for it, especially if I'm with somebody,
none of my practice, I don't, it It seems easy for me to have grace in that,
but with people that I know that I feel like, you know, haven't we had this conversation before,
(42:36):
like a million times or in what other way can I say this for this to make sense?
I realized the very frustration that I have is more about in that moment,
the more about my own sense of okayness and worthiness or something that they
(43:01):
need to take up what I'm saying and change.
And if they're not doing it, then that's a problem for me. And I'm not going
to feel that, so I'm going to project that back onto them and be angry with
them. I think that's exactly it.
Yeah, I'm not saying there's not a time to be frustrated. I'm not saying that
there's not a time to feel frustration.
(43:22):
This is an art form, you know. But ultimately, the greatest healers,
I would argue the greatest spiritual masters that you and I might really admire,
both ancient and new, are ones who really embodied this fully and different,
to allow the space for another to walk their path with integrity. What do you think?
(43:49):
It's called holding sacred space for somebody you
know witnessing them and rather
you know it's a form of witnessing and seeing
someone in a very open pure
hearted way which is not easy because
you know we all have our own glasses on and
maybe we we do believe that and we you
(44:11):
know that there needs to be some dialogue and some
you know you know especially if it's an intimate person
someone one we've known since we were born or in our family you
know and so that's it's you know it's a
matter of relevancy how relevant is the
interaction with this person based on your history and so
you may be impelled to interact with them but if
(44:34):
you can do it even with this graceful indifference
then you can you know
it's equal to support the person
and to honor them and to say how great they
are or it's going to be no different if you feel you
have to give them a different reflection on who they are than maybe they have
(44:56):
yeah and and then the way i know that i'm i'm doing the holy indifference is
after the person after i've engaged with the person and i'm,
and we've ended that particular engagement that particular encounter there's an energy of.
A looseness, a forward momentum, a, hey, you know, I can't wait to hear about
(45:23):
your success next time we see each other.
Or I really admire the things that you are doing and I'm here for you if you
want to reach out when you want to reach out.
You know what I mean? So there's an openness and a forward fluid where you can
sort of intuit that flow.
I'm going to move to Martha No, let's see, we have Martha and Neil.
(45:45):
Let's do Neil first, Neil.
Just thinking of the holy indifference and maybe connecting it with like the St.
Francis prayer and trying to get an idea of like using that as an affirmation
to get in that headspace.
Oh, well, the St. Francis prayer is, I have three major prayers that I love.
(46:09):
St. Francis prayer, the prayer of serenity.
God grant me the courage to change the things that I can. The serenity to accept
the things that I cannot change and the wisdom to know the difference,
you know, some form of that.
And then also, of course, the our father is one of those two.
(46:31):
But, yeah, I think that's exactly right. You really need to embody this sense
of I'm going to be an instrument here for the highest and greatest good. And it's not about me.
Martha, real quick. I didn't have a question or anything else.
I was trying to put it on mute or something and accidentally erased it.
(46:51):
Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. All right. We're going to move on.
And here, service obviously is incredibly important.
And again, it's the wind that takes the boat forward.
So I almost, I try to almost always ask. It's not every time that I remember, but I always try to ask.
(47:15):
The person with whom I'm doing the SHIPS approach to what form of service would
they like to do between now and the next time we see each other that is above
the transactional energy.
So I asked the person, the other person, like what they want to do in terms
of an active service, if not today, tomorrow. But I asked them, like.
(47:41):
Soon as possible. I try to get them to verbalize something today.
But if they don't, if they can't today for some reason, what day this week?
I ask them to name the service.
Because a lot of times we humans, myself, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. I'll do it.
I will do some service. But if I'm not challenged to actually verbalize that,
(48:04):
then it stays forever in the subconscious
and sort of the realm of the potential but never
get to tap so we have to ask people to
name what they would do and when they would do it
and ask them if it would be okay if you
checked back in with them you know in one week a couple of days and be specific
(48:25):
about it and you want to see how that active service went you see so i'll say
all right cool well i love what you're going to say you know you're going to
help your mom cook on Wednesday.
Awesome. So next time I see you next Friday, I'm going to ask how it went.
And I'm really excited to hear about how things went between you and your mom
(48:48):
and how your mom felt about it.
But whenever I become very specific like that.
Response. And I have to say, this alone, when we invite others to do service,
it taps into that cosmic law that it is in giving that we receive.
That if you want to keep it, you have to give it away.
(49:11):
If you want to keep your value of loyalty or value of honesty,
you have to give your honesty and loyalty away in the sense that you have to
embody it, incarnate it in a practiced manner further than the conceptual.
And then, of course, the law of one material says that there's a cosmic law.
(49:33):
It's connected to karma, and that is the law of responsibility.
And basically, what Ross says is that
to whatever degree that you and I conceptually
understand something or even a
gnosis like if you have a psychedelic experience
that brings you into like this incredible munitive consciousness
(49:55):
if if you and i don't
incarnate that embody that bring
it to the level of the immediacy of our space
time experience and third density
if you and i don't do it because the responsibility
is there now cosmically and
karmically if you and i don't do it then it actually creates the energetic environment
(50:20):
that becomes more difficult to polarize in the future in other words if you
don't give it away you lose it if you give it away way, you keep it and it grows.
So if we want to be happy, we give, we make other people happy.
If you want joy, do acts of joyous service.
(50:45):
Yeah. And so that's just something I want to end with here is the sense of service.
That's such an important piece. All right. Well, that is part three.
That is all of the, the ships approach.
I just want to thank you, my lovely group, my lovely community here to let be,
(51:07):
be your, your, my community and my bring out the energy.
So thank you so much. Was this helpful today or did you guys like it? Yeah. Good.
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