Episode 95 - Mayflies (2022) - The Culture Swally

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:31):
Fairly well, that's a nice opening.
You should be getting a bit of a roast and related to the topic.
Yeah well, the subject matter that we're speaking about today, I didn't think it was appropriate.
I did actually write down joined by the man who plays the guitar like he has nerve damage
in his hands, but that's not true and I didn't want to, you know, it's not appropriate.
Today is all about friendship and the beauty of friendship and the fact that you would do

(00:54):
anything for your best friends.
So I thought, you know, this is going to be a very different episode today I think folks.
Not the beginning is going to be the usual fucking nonsense from Scotland, but when we come
on to what we're going to be talking about later, I think it's going to be a very different
episode.
Yeah.
How are you anyway, everything?
Good, I'm good.
I don't know if you've noticed here, but I've got a new chair.

(01:14):
Oh yes, very nice.
So, very poignant.
So, a chair that I've been sitting in since we started doing the podcast back in 2020 is
a chair that my wife bought for the desk.
So it was, my wife's not very tall, so it was sort of designed and purchased with her in
mind.
And as a result, whenever we do the pod, because my knees, because it's a bit lower to the

(01:38):
ground, even on its high setting, my knees are bent and I'm sort of hunched over and stuff
and I was a bit stiff after, especially if we do like a bit of a longer episode.
So I bought this kind of mastermind type chair, but the first time I sat in it was all in Thursday
night because we were doing it, it was like a parents night and gone are the days when you

(02:00):
go to school and meet the parents now.
It's a sort of webinar thing.
Yeah.
You get like sort of four minutes per, you get four minutes per teacher.
So we're running a wee bit late on Thursday, so I quickly logged in and I logged in before
I sat down.
So I've logged in and said to teach her how, sorry, my little bit late and then I've sat

(02:21):
in the chair, but I've leaned back, not realizing that it, so as I've leaned back, I've gone,
"Oh fuck!"
And yeah, had to apologise to Mrs Hassan for my unfortunate language.
Fortunately she saw the funny side of it, although she hold it against me and put my daughter.

(02:44):
It does look like a mastermind chair.
What would you especially subject me on mastermind?
I know quite a lot about James Bond, I know quite a lot about the who.
I know that a bit about Scottish media and culture.
Oh yeah, you do actually.
Yeah, I just see, in what year did a baker in East Coast Bride order a sex doll from

(03:07):
Amazon and then pretend it was a mistake?
I was in a bar last night and I wanted to take a photo, but I thought I'm not taking a photo
of the toilets, but the Gents toilet had a photo of Sean Conor on the Gents toilet and
the ladies toilet, it was a photo of Ursula Andrews, which I thought was a nice touch.

(03:30):
Yeah, but the toilets were right next to the bar, so I didn't want to put my phone out
and take a photo of the toilet, especially just in case I'm in position ready to take
a photo and the door opens and some female standing there, like what are you doing?
Taking a photo inside the ladies toilet, so I'm at no, I'm trying to take a photo of Ursula
Andrews to send to my mate.

(03:51):
Might look a little bit dodgy.
Anyway, you have got another apology to make, Greg.
Oh yeah, we've had an email into the culture sually and an email from Olivia and Olivia says,
"Hi, this is the first time I've listened to your podcast and I enjoyed it very much.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
I'm a massive fan of Peter Capaldi and I have watched Soft Top Hard Shoulder at least 10

(04:13):
times.
It was great hearing people talk about Soft Top as it's an underrated gem and doesn't get
talked about much outside of the Peter Capaldi fandom."
I agree with you.
Yeah, I agree with you.
Yeah, it is.
However, I have to disagree with your statement.
Now, I think it was you who were saying that, Greg.
That Peter Capaldi isn't handsome.
Both Peter as a young and older man is very attractive and charming.

(04:35):
He has a lovely smile, a deep expressive voice, long elegant hands and shampoo advert worthy
hair.
Peter and his incarnation of the doctor is even widely considered to be something of a
sex symbol in Doctor Hugh fandom for being a silver fox and his doctor for having three
love interests.
Clara, Missy and River.
Peter definitely even now has the looks and charm of a leading man and could easily play

(05:00):
the lead role in a rom-com with the right script.
I still really enjoy the podcast and can't wait to listen to more episodes.
You guys should check out the layer of the white worm.
It doesn't take place in Scotland, but Peter's character, Angus Flint is extremely Scottish,
even fighting off vampires in a kilt, whilst playing the bagpipes in the climax.
Best Olivia.

(05:20):
So would you like to apologise to Olivia for saying that Peter Capaldi isn't handsome?
If I said that, then I do apologise.
I did.
I thought what he said was that he wasn't conventionally handsome.
Eddie was about unusual looking.
That's what he said.
And I think I kind of agreed in a way so I can take some of the blame.

(05:41):
I would say in Softtop he is handsome.
I've never watched any of his Doctor Hugh episodes, but from the photos I've seen I can understand
why he would be a sex symbol in Doctor Hugh fandom because he's got this lovely, smoky,
Scottish boy, though.
And he looks good.
When I think of Capaldi, I immediately think of Malcolm Tucker.
And as Malcolm Tucker, he's quite gaunt.

(06:02):
He's wearing an ill-fitting suit and he just looks like he smells like Benson and Hedge.
So it's kind of that's maybe what I think of when I look at the think of Capaldi.
However, if I think back to Softtop, think back to local hero, he has a very handsome man
actually.
And I listen to, not to promote another podcast, but he is probably one of the biggest podcasts
in the world anyway.

(06:22):
I listen to his episode on Off Menu and he's just such a fucking great guy.
I don't know if you've listened to the episode.
No, it's not.
He's, he's perfect, Capaldi.
Like, he, for his start to, he picks Kalamari and James A. Castor's like, "Would you ever
do an old boy?"
And he's like, "What's old boy?"
And he's like, "You've not seen old boys?"
No, because he, in one scene, he eats a live octopus like and he does it for real.

(06:46):
Like, and he, you know, bites into it and you see the tentacles wrap and round it.
Would you do that?
And Capaldi just goes, "Fuck off."
[laughter]
Thank you.
[laughter]
I was actually, when I was on my travels in the last couple of weeks, I was rewatching
some of my favourite episodes of The Thick of It.
Unfortunately, the platform that I was watching it on didn't have my absolute favourite

(07:10):
episodes and those are the ones called The Rise of the Knutters with them.
What's the other Scottish guy that's in those episodes?
He's in the loop as well.
I know exactly who you mean.
I can't remember.
Oh, it was names on the tip of my tongue.
Yeah.
He's in line with Jutti.
He's in line with Jutti.
He was in the complicity as well.

(07:31):
Paul Higgins.
The actor's Paul Higgins.
Yeah, but I can't remember the characters name.
I don't know if it was Gavin or something like that.
I think it might be.
Yeah, and it's just, like, we're having Capaldi just, well, so his characters are in Tucker
just like, eviscerating people.
I just find it very, very funny.
Oh, he's got him watch that again.
Yeah.
Those episodes are absolute quality.
Yeah, I need to watch that again, you're right.

(07:52):
But I find, you know, like, I'm always interested in what sort of physical qualities women look
for in a man.
And I know that it will vary from lady to lady.
I've never heard of it.
I know I heard a lady sort of point out someone's long, elegant hands as, you know, as a sort

(08:15):
of attractive physical attribute.
They have their uses, correct?
Well, this is true.
I mean, he's very, very good in the guitar, for example.
Yeah, yeah.
And we weave in his sonic screwdriver about, anyway, so, yeah, apologies, Livia.
Sorry, Livia, but yes, we've rectified that.
He's a very handsome man totally agree.
Okay, right.
Shall we have a look at what's been happening in Scotland over the last couple of weeks,

(08:37):
great.
Let's do it.
Oh, Cure the jingle.
[MUSIC]
Hello, this is the Outdoor Heavard East Broadcasting Co-Demoration.
And here is what's been going on in the new.
Okay, Greg, what is your first news story this week that you'd like to share with me and

(08:58):
our lovely listeners?
Well, my first one comes from the daily record on the, oh, was it the 20th of February.
It's by the reporter, Sarah Vestey.
And the headline reads, "Scottish Highlands Ranked as the safest place to survive a zombie
apocalypse, zombie."
Ah.
Maybe they, you know, it's quite confident in all that people are sitting around doing

(09:20):
surveys on things that could never possibly happen, you know, at the end of it.
So it says, "The Scottish Highlands have been ranked as the safest place to survive a zombie
apocalypse, a new study has found, a new study has found.
Our guy, then, came a close second with the Western Isles Orkney and Sterling also featuring

(09:41):
in the top 10 places to, Sterling."
I mean, I think it might have happened in the Sterling already.
"Obvious factors that were taken into account included population, density, and the availability
of useful survival resources such as supermarkets and outdoor supply doors.
But the number of lakes, garages, medical centres, and other valuable amenities were also

(10:03):
examined to discover areas with the best survival supplies.
The study conducted by Jeff Bett, that's all one word, it's not some guy called Jeff Bett,
that's not a company, it must be like a betting website.
He gave a score of 74.04 out of a possible 130 points to the Pitcher Esk, Scottish Highlands.
A standout strength was the remarkably low population density, which was seen as a crucial

(10:27):
factor in navigating post-apocalyptic challenges."
The wilderness areas were identified as being the perfect location for foraging and setting
up remote shelters away from others.
During second place, our respectable score of 71.27 points is a gyril and butte, known for
its remote and secluded setting, this area is a prime location for surviving tough times.

(10:53):
I can only imagine that Sterling was put in there because they've got a few supermarkets
that just based on the criteria that the report is there.
Is it because maybe the monument as well, because it's high up, and maybe zombies can't
climb up there as well?
There's zombies that will be too fucked from climbing the steep hill to...
Yeah, maybe.
Maybe.

(11:14):
Sterling Castle is quite high as well, because...
Yeah, bring the draw bridge up.
How do you think they've done the research to base this on?
If they just watched the Walking Dead and Day of the Dead and Dawn of the Dead and Sean
of the Dead?
28 days later.
How have they worked out?

(11:34):
Nobody knows what zombies are actually going to be like.
Well, that's a thing like...
Well, Zach Snyder and Danny Boyle were a rather Alex Garland imagined zombies that could
run quite fast, which is quite scary, because I always felt as much as Night of the Dead
and Dawn of the Dead are perhaps two of my favourite ever films.
The original Night of the Dead has been remade about 1,000 times, but the original Black

(11:58):
and White one and the original Dawn of the Dead are two of my faves.
I was never particularly worried about zombies when I was younger, because I thought, "This
low is fuck."
You know what I mean?
And then 28 days later came out, and they're not slow, in fact, they're pretty fast.
And I was, I didn't really fancy my chances as a 25 year old young man who was out every night

(12:20):
and smoked about 25 today.
Outrunning a determined zombie would be quite honest.
I'm not even that sure that I don't even fancy my chances now to be quite honest.
So that starts to worry then, after you saw that, you thought, "Oh, maybe I better get
fit and stop the fags, because in case this is zombie apocalypse."
Because it is highly likely, isn't it?
Jesus Christ.
I mean, why are they wasting money putting stuff into studies like this?

(12:41):
Well, I mean, that's Jeff Beck.
Let's see what Jeff Beck is, because I thought you said Jeff Beck, the star of Western,
I was like, "Jesus, what's Jeff Beck doing to study zombie apocalypse?"
Especially when he's dead.
Yeah, well maybe he's been the animator.
Maybe he didn't, maybe he didn't fully died because he thought he made that chance
to come back and play high-hole silver line in one more time.

(13:03):
He's trying to do this study to find out the places to avoid because he knows they're
the worst places to go with if he's a zombie.
Yeah, better avoid sterling.
I've just got to fall carcass dead.
I thought maybe the zombies might avoid the Scottish Highlands because famously that's
for a Jimmy Savile ran away to...
That's a very good point.
You were seeing him even like a dead boy.

(13:23):
Even zombies are way the old fundraising nonsense.
Well, never a few react, right?
Apparently.
Yeah, it was.
So zombies are like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, you know.
But then, would zombies be safe?
Because technically they're dead, but then they still are alive in a way.
They're reanimated.
So maybe Savile wouldn't be interested.
Maybe they're the...
Maybe the kidney zombies.
Anyway.

(13:44):
So, where would be...
So Jeff Beck is an official betting website, by the way.
I'm not sure, right?
There's commissioning studies on a zombie apocalypse, but they are.
That's fair enough.
Well, Jeff Beck, if you'd like to...
If you'd like to sponsor the culture spell you can get in touch with us and culture spell
at gmail.com.
Okay, so anyway, yep, that's my first story this week, which you're first story.
My first story comes from the Scottish Sun this week, Greg, and the headline is Radio Gaga.

(14:08):
A sailor blocked a Coast Guard emergency channel off the coast of Shetland by playing Radio
4 non-stop for 12 hours.
Shetland Coast Guard had to contact the BBC for help after a ship afloat somewhere near
the islands accidentally broadcast the Radio 4 station on the Maritime Emergency Channel
by keeping a microphone on.
The Distress in Safety frequency, known as VHF, Channel 16, experienced intermittent interference

(14:34):
on February 5th, as a sailor listened to episodes of the archers, women's hour, and just
a minute.
Radio 4 had to broadcast a message, asking all vessels in the area to check their sets.
The message said, "This is an important safety message related on behalf of his Majesty's
Coast Guard.
Radio Program is being transmitted over VHF Channel 16 by a vessel with an open mic.

(14:57):
This is blocking all distress, urgency, and safety broadcasts.
All vessels in the vicinity of South East Shetland are requested to check their videos to ensure
that the microphone transmit button is not being inadvertently held open."
Laura K, the team leader of Shetland Coast Guard, told Radio 4's Broadcasting House Program
how the incident unfolded.
She said, "The day watch had Radio 4 coming through the transmission.

(15:19):
It was transmitting for about 12 hours at various levels of clarity."
In our policy, there is actually a bit that says, "If you can heave a radio station, you
can contact them and ask them to broadcast the safety message.
We have had incidents before where there has been a fault with the equipment.
If you spilled something on the hand set, the buttons could stick, or it's just not been
properly set down."
The team leader added, "There have been no incidents during the period, that's good,

(15:42):
that the channel was blocked."
The Coast Guard said that VHF Channel 16 must be kept clear for distress and urgent traffic
only.
It's urgent mariners to regularly check the radio equipment to ensure that it is in good
condition to avoid accidental transmissions.
So, if you ever accidentally broadcast something that you didn't mean to broadcast, if you
ever listened to the art cheers or women's hour?

(16:04):
Well, I mean, I accidentally broadcast the sound of myself having a piss when I was in
the team's meeting a couple of years ago during the pandemic, which luckily one of my colleagues
said, "Yeah, I was at the app, so I was able to stop."
I was on my AirPods, so that was the night I had muted my microphone before I slipped

(16:24):
away to relieve myself.
I mean, I used to listen to quite a lot of radio for when I worked in the UK because I
did a lot of driving.
And I wasn't really on top of podcasts, sort of, ten years ago, three or eleven years ago.
So, I used to listen to the radio, and I did just listen to the art cheers.
I'll be very honest.
I would listen to the world at one.

(16:46):
Oh!
If I was in the car during the afternoon, I would listen to the world at one for the news.
Then I would listen to the art cheers, and then at two o'clock every weekday, radio four
has like an hour long, like, drama.
Like, one-off drama, which I would listen to.
And then in the evening, if I was in the road at night, I would listen to the six o'clock
news.
Then I would listen to, there's always like a comedy show on it, half-six, the news quiz

(17:10):
or sometimes just a minute.
And then the, and then the art cheers, and then hopefully I'd be home by then.
So yeah, you just, you have to keep yourself awake when you're, when the road about, you
know, and what's better than listening to the art cheers.
I don't think I've ever listened to an episode of the art cheers.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not very good, but people, well, in my opinion, but it's, it's, it's, I think

(17:33):
it's a long-ish running soap, like, across TV and radio, like ever.
It's been, it's been, for instance, like, the 40s and 50s, I think, and the BBC.
Yeah.
So it must be doing something right.
Not for me to actually say whether it's good or not, but it certainly kept me awake when
I was on the road.
So thank you to the archers.
And it's got a good theme tune.
Very good.
Oh, that's true.

(17:54):
Yeah.
I do know the theme tune.
Yeah.
Well, I'm just glad that there was no incidents that occurred during the 12 hour broadcast
of Radio 4.
But at least everyone got to listen to Radio 4 during that.
But at least I, at least everybody would have heard a Shippin' Forecast.
If it was on for 12 hours.
Oh.
It's a Shippin.
That's true.
Yeah.
That's a very valid point.
So maybe he was doing a good service or she, I don't know who it was, Tim, that broadcasted

(18:19):
that for 12 hours.
But nevermind.
Thankfully, nothing happened.
Oh, okay.
So, sorry, just on that.
Do you remember the old tune, The Fat Sketch?
Because you know how the Shippin' Forecast has got these weird names for different parts
of the sea.
And they tune The Fat Sketch, which is...
There's radicals, just off the sticky, clinker captain.

(18:40):
Really funny.
Oh, dear.
Okay.
What else have you seen this week, Greg?
Well, so this is a story that comes from the Scottish Sun on the 20th...
I get on the 20th of February, just a couple of days ago.
Although it was updated on the 20th of January, so reality, X, EastEnders actor and now

(19:03):
sort of reality TV guy Joe Swash and his...
I don't know if they're married or if they're just living together.
Stacey Solomon, who was famously on the X-Factor.
Nice voice, but you know, she didn't win.
So, they've been camping.
Oh, we're gonna get emails now about someone saying that Stacey Solomon is very attractive.

(19:24):
I didn't say she wasn't.
Has a lovely hop.
Okay.
She's got a lovely voice.
I don't know if she still does the singing, but she was a good singer in X-Factor.
But if a character.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, Joe Swash has told how he was left feeling freaked out after he caught what he thought
with somebody staining at him overnight on his camper van holiday in Scotland with Stacey

(19:48):
Solomon.
The couple are currently enjoying a holiday in the Scottish Highlands and they are swanky
£70,000 motorhome.
Wow.
With one, two, three, four, five kids plus the two adults not motorhome.
That's a big motorhome then.
Yeah, well, it doesn't look that big, but anyway.
The trip hasn't been going to plan so far.
After they left their home in Pickle Cottage, which must be somewhere in Essex on Saturday,

(20:12):
just hours into the journey, the family were forced to stop after Stacey forgot to secure
the cupboard inside the motorhome.
How does it stay?
Why was it Stacey's responsibility to secure this?
Do you know what I mean?
This is like five of them in that motorhome and one of the kids looks a bit too.
But as a result, everything fell out and wreaked havoc in the back of the motorhome.

(20:34):
And the following day wasn't much better.
After they spent the night at the Loch Ness Caravan Park in Inverness, after they left for
the either sky, the couple who have five kids together realised they had left Stacey's
bright pink suitcase and handbag behind.
But luckily, a local found her bags and managed to return them to her after contacting
her in social media.

(20:55):
And just as things couldn't get any worse, Stacey revealed that they were forced to sleep
in the car park after another mishap two nights ago.
The couple didn't realise that caravan sites in Scotland tend to shut down in the winter.
Of course they fucking take.
Who's going caravanning in Scotland in the fucking winter?
Well, Joe and Stacey evidently.

(21:16):
That's true.
But Joe has told us how his overnight keeping a church last night was even worse than the
night before when he was convinced that he thought someone was watching him all night.
After waking up in the morning, he realised that it was a creepy post that was painted to
look like a king or a prince.
It wasn't a person.
In a clip in his Instagram story, Jotal fans.

(21:37):
So this is really spent last night.
Car park number two outside this little church.
I've got to say, I think I preferred last night's car park.
So if anyone is coming to the either sky and you're interested in the car parks, let
us know because we'll slap them.
Both of them.
Certain people that use car parks in the evening.

(22:03):
Maybe not in Scotland in the winter.
It's a bit cold before I had that kind of thing in the winter.
I don't know.
But definitely in the summer.
So definitely in the summer.
Showing fans the window above the driver's seat of the motor home.
Joe continued last night, a slept up there and woke up and looked across the road.
I was sure someone was stating that, and it really freaked me out.
Showed a picture of the painted post.

(22:24):
They said, "I got up this morning.
No wonder it freaked me out.
Look at the state of it."
So there was a picture of it.
It looks a wee bit like the old sort of kids shows used to be on like a chalping in the
wheelies and King Rolo and stuff like that.
It looks a wee bit like a character from one of them, to be honest.
I can't quite think of which show.
God haven't thought about King Rolo for a very long time.

(22:47):
So, why would you?
Despite some of the chaos that faced over the last few days, fans have been quick to encourage
the family on their journey.
They've walked to comment on Stacey's recent post and wished them well on their travels
to the Scott.
One person said, "I think a TV show of Joe and Stacey on their travels is a great idea."
And another added, "Sure you and the family are going to love Scotland as much as we do.

(23:12):
Have a great family adventure."
So, yeah, so let's Joe and Stacey.
Yeah, I don't know if I'd be kind of adding in Scotland in February.
No.
You've slept in a car park in February in a Nissan Micra with our mutual friend, didn't you?
Yes, yeah.
Which was my fault.
Can I just say the point out that the slept with means that we slept adjacent to each other

(23:35):
in a Nissan Micra.
I didn't mean that Nissan Micra was rocking around.
But if Nissan Micra wasn't rocking, because our mutual friend had taken quite a lot of pro
plus tablets and drank quite a lot of Red Bull in order to make the journey from Aberdeen
and the Orchshinies little Nissan Micra.
So whilst I was able to get some sleep, unfortunately, our mutual friend wasn't, that might

(23:58):
be a, maybe that's a serial tale along the lines of Shang-alang for later on.
Maybe we could tell that tale.
Yeah.
Yeah, we'll go do that, okay.
Yeah.
Well, leave that up to you.
You're the storyteller here, so I'll leave that up to you.
Okay.
You can come up with that at some point later on.
Yeah, it's lovely to visit.
And you know, February, Scottish, yeah, I don't know if it's the best time of the year, but

(24:22):
it's still beautiful.
I did see one of the articles actually, and because I think there's been a few articles
about their trip, and they did, to be fair, to Stacey, she did take a photo.
I don't know where they were, but it was like a photo of the beach.
And it was a beautiful, clear blue sky that day.
And she actually said, like, is this Scotland or the Maldives?
Well, it's fucking Scotland.

(24:43):
But yeah, we're in a fucking anorac.
It's definitely Scotland.
But yeah, it just looked so beautiful and picturesque.
And you know, it's good.
She's a big social media influencer, so if it attracts people to go and visit Scotland,
then, you know, I'm all for it.
And you know, it might help boost a bit of tourism.
So I'm all for that, to be fair.

(25:04):
And it sounds like they're having a lovely time, apart from doing it and getting scared
by a King Rollo.
Yeah.
I was quite late, Stacey saw a little bit.
I know she used to get a bit of a stack because she kind of came off a bit sort of dim or naive
or whatever, but I always late, she's got something quite charming about her, you know.

(25:25):
I was quite late, Joe Swarth, like he's just a good egg.
It's not a wide boy, but he just seems like a good egg.
And I don't know.
For some reason, I can't remember.
I must have been a radio show I listened to or a podcast he was on.
And it was just the way he pronounced the word bouncy bowl.
And I used to always just get a stack of met.
It's a bouncy bowl, a bouncy bowl.
And to know why, I always associate bouncy bowl with Joe Swarth.

(25:48):
But he seems like a good enough lad.
They're harmless.
They're not hurt in anyone.
They're, you know, they're happy, you know, good on them.
And I really hope they enjoy their time in Scotland in the car parts.
They come in the summer next thing.
Yeah.
And don't go to dogging hot spots with your five kids.
And shut the fucking cupboard, Stacy, next time.
Right.

(26:08):
Anyway, that was my last story this week, which you're next month.
Okay.
So my next story comes from the Scottish sun and it is a legendary.
And I really like him as a pundit.
Michael Stewart, as a pundit and a commentator.
I know he played for Hearts and Hibs, but I really like him.
He speaks his mind, which I really like.
And he's not afraid to stick it to the man.

(26:30):
But the headline here is Innuendo.
Michael Stewart dropped a commentary clanger worthy of a place in Scottish football heritage
during last nights.
And last night, this was the 17th of February.
So it was the 16th of February.
Top of the tableclash in the championship.
Ray Throver's hosted League Rivals, Dundee United at Starks Park in the Friday Night
fixture, winning 2-1 to go with an point of the Tarradise side.

(26:54):
But it wasn't just Ian Murray's team and the fans in the stand making some noise.
That's because in the commentary booth, pundits Stewart dropped in Innuendo for the ages.
With the scores locked at 1-1 in the 77 minute, Ray Throver's one-a-corner, from which Dundee
United cleared, only for the hosts to recover it in the final third.
Throver's kept up the pressure and forced another cross, but again, the visitors managed

(27:16):
to scramble it away.
But David Wutherspoon's lofted clearance barely reached the edge of the box, and Tony
Watt had to battle to rise in a 50/50 aerial duo with left back Liam Dick.
The United striker won the header, but in doing so, caught his opponent's square in the
mouth with his elbow, giving away a free kick.
And the part which S commentary from Stewart that followed is, as one punter put it, worthy

(27:38):
of a place in Scottish football heritage.
Michael Stewart said in the replay of the instant, "That's a sore one there.
He gets Dick right in the mouth."
Stewart paused, perhaps aware of his Innuendo, and then continued, "He gets caught with Tony
Watt's flailing arm there.
That's a sore one, but thankfully Dick is up in OK."

(27:59):
Needless to say, fans on social media who heard the whimsical double-up on Dundra were
quick to pass comments on it.
One joked, "Michael Stewart's enjoying himself on commentary tonight."
And then I said, "Absolute prime cinch.
A third red, you shouldn't laugh."
Someone forced commentary from Michael Stewart there.
The matter is on the pitch, and we don't, doesn't matter about the end of the article,

(28:21):
because we've got to the main point.
But yeah, it just goes on about the point stall he is.
So yeah, it's a sore one there.
He gets Dick right in the mouth.
That's an unfortunate part of a bit of commentary there from Michael Stewart.
But you have to laugh, and it's always funny when someone like that comes out.
Yeah, I mean, who's going to be that upset anyway?
I mean, most of the people that are going to be watching that are, you know, most people

(28:44):
watching the football are going to be guys.
Not all, I know that they've got a lot of ladies like football too, but it's probably going
to be guys.
Probably quite a similar sheer sense of humour.
Of course, a shuckle about it like we just have.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was a slip of the tongue, you know, so yeah, anyway.
Okay, so that is my last news story, but before we go into what we're going to be talking

(29:05):
about today, Greg, because it's going to be quite a heavy subject.
I have a little game for us.
Would you like to play a little game?
Well, again, okay.
So I was in Amsterdam City Centre last weekend, and I saw a lot of posters up for a new
film that's coming out, and it's called The Bricklayer, and it stars Aronette Heart

(29:26):
as a bricklayer.
So I had to look up the story because I'm like, what the fuck, why is there a film called
The Bricklayer?
So it turns out that Aronette Heart is an XCIA operative who has retired, and he's now a bricklayer.
It sounds like the worst episode of a video-same pet of ever heard of.
Or the best video.
Or the best, I don't know, yeah.

(29:46):
It'd be awesome, ball-mar getting ball-mar getting ball-mar.
But of course, he gets lured out of retirement and has to do like one final mission for
the XCIA thing.
And it reminded me, I instantly thought of, there was a film in February, a January story
that came out, and I haven't watched it, and I reminded me I need to watch it.
A Jason Stathen Oil called the B-Keeper, yeah.
And I think he plays like an XCIA operative who, I think, is neighbour gets murdered, and

(30:11):
he avenges our deaths, like, kind of, using bees.
I think he's in bees.
I think his neighbour is the victim of like online fraud and commit suicide, and I drive
something to hunt down the, I mean, yeah.
I don't know, I just remember seeing the trailer and he's like, he smashes a jar of honey
over someone's head or something.

(30:34):
Yeah, like, I drive something to go to Mumbai to find his guys.
So I thought to myself, this is obviously a trend now that they're using occupations
as like, you know, XCIA or X, you know, that thing, the B-Keeper or the Bricklayer.
So I've come up with five stereotypical Scottish jaws.
And I would like you to tell me who the lead actor or actress would be in this film.

(30:57):
Okay.
And if you want, give me a little brief synopsis.
Now, I haven't thought about this apart from the last one.
I have a, I have a vision for the last one, but I'm going to, it's up to you the first four
and the fifth one, and then I'll tell you my idea for the film.
Okay.
So you ready?
Ready.
And we're going to cover all these films on this Wally in the future.
So the first one is, so I just want a synopsis and lead actor, you can flip it about if

(31:22):
you come up with a synopsis first and then fill the actor or whatever.
Okay.
So the first one is the Crofter.
Crofter.
Okay.
Let me think.
So I think it's David Heyman and he's like, he's been disorderly discharged from the SAS
because can't hold his pants after missions.
So the top brass, I've said that, you know, he's a decent soldier, but can he hold his

(31:46):
booze?
You know, I was falling asleep nights out and stuff.
I was ending up nights as soldiers keep leaving him by the side of the road for an hour
for like a 10 pound note sticking in between his arches.
So he decides to go, he decides to go and he decides to go to Shetland to be a Crofter.
But when he's in Shetland, he discovers that these Russian guys are smuggling cracking

(32:11):
through the port in Shetland and there's, and the police are in their pocket, the police,
the police, the Shetland police, the pockets are full of rebels and vodka.
They're quite happy.
So he decides to take matters into his own hands.
But stop it off and I'll find out.
But yeah, he's, yeah.
He's stopped off just for, he's, he's, he's come off the cash roll and he's moved on to just

(32:35):
like the alcohol, the 0.5% beers, stretch, stretch and make a change, you know.
That sounds awesome.
I'd love to see the Crofter.
I don't really want to see the sides.
Amazing.
Uh, okay, second one on the list, the ship builder.
The ship builder, right?
Okay.
I mean, I think all this in Texas is going to have like quite violent outcomes, I think.
So, yeah, of course they are.

(32:56):
Is that a kind of film, is it?
So I think it's, um, think the ship builder, it's, uh, Matt Costello in a rare lead role.
Okay.
Uh, yeah, Matt Costello.
I know usually because normally it is a supporting role, but, um, it's a, it's a fairly low budget
film.
We got Matt in for some credibility.

(33:17):
So Matt's, Matt's a guy who is working in a pub is a bartender and he had been in the
apprentice well, they're on the Clyde, but he, uh, he lost his job when the shipyard's got
close down by that year.
Right?
So he's, he's got a share in a wee pub that he works in and the Tory party tried to buy
the pub to turn it into a branch of the conservative club, like, so, nor Glasgow Conservatives Club

(33:43):
right?
Uh, uh, Kastelal rakes, reeks terrible vengeance on the MPs who it, who it turns out this
air to have vengeance related on them because their, yeah, Scottish Tories are all so part
of a, of a widespread P.D.
Phil Ring, um, which, which is another, which, after, if there's one thing that Kastelal's

(34:05):
character hates more than Conservatives, it's fucking nonsense, right?
So, uh, he, uh, utilises the skills that you're learning on the yards, he finds his old
gaffer, a retired Billy Conley to get him to step in and help him out.
They, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, are 18 style, they build a labyrinth, nautical

(34:25):
based contraptions and traps to catch these dirty Tory nonce, pervert MPs and, uh, scupper
plans to turn the pub into the Tory club. It works doubly as well because Billy Conley could be
a consultant - Lets ally, you used to be a ship builder so yeah. That's great. Yeah, I would
fuckin love to see the ship rotate. I want to see that head of the crofter actually,

(34:47):
okay number three the troller, man. The troller, man. Yeah, troller. So, a fish and troller,
yeah, okay, so once somebody who looks sort of nautical I'm gonna go with Cosmo because Cosmo looks
fucking great in a fisherman's jumper, you know what I think? Yeah, oh yeah, he does, yeah,
you're right, yeah. So Cosmo, he plays a troller, man, who's been working out of Fraserborough

(35:13):
like his whole life. So this is gonna call on Cosmo to utilize his accent skills to do this,
sort of a buck and dialect. You might have to put some subtitles on if we get an international
release. So Cosmo plays a troller, man. He's a wee bit older and he's starting, he's really
upset with the EU because he's because the because it will have to be set like in the in the 90s.

(35:39):
Can we set any time? Yeah, yeah, just set the 1990s is really upset with the EU because
because of EU rules he's discovered that he's his his fishing rights, his right or the Scotland's
rights to fish the North Sea have been with just and all these Spanish fishermen are are starting to
come in and French fishermen and stuff like that because the Spanish and the French are mad for

(36:03):
like Languestene. They are, that's true actually, they have fucking mountains, they love shellfish
and the Mediterranean famously is too warm for shellfish. So, so, but they are thinking about Cosmo,
although he's been a, although he's been a fisherman, he's also a bare knuckle boxer retired,
right? So like, they always just to supplement his fishing money with like,

(36:26):
bare chested car park fights and like the pub car park and stuff like gypsies and things like that,
kind of price fights. So Cosmo discovers, first of all, it gets, it gets cutied off by one of these
French fishermen, right? He almost gets knocked off his boat because he's got this old boat and in
fact the Spanish guys have got these like top of the range state of the art boats, right? And Cosmo

(36:48):
almost gets taken out. Big wave comes over, the young guys training up gets washed over the side and
drowns Cosmo's fucking region, right? The young guys played by Martin Comston, so he's been washed
over the side, washed it see, right? So Cosmo's character is absolutely agent and then he discovers that
as well as fishing the waters, the Spanish are also using it to bring in like, heroine from

(37:11):
Papacistan. So when you fight, I don't know, top Pakistan, Afghanistan, sorry.
Did he say Pakistan, that well known, the poppy field, some Pakistan, I thought they'd then grow there.
Well, okay, Afghanistan. So Cosmo discovers this and then he gets his crew together, sort them out,

(37:32):
sort of, sorry, he's crew, he's got Tony Corin, he's like his first mate, he's got, who else, he's got
like young Ryan Gordon's on there as well. And he's a bit of a, what do they call them? He's
a bit of a green horn like they say on a, on Trotherman in the US, but he soon gets, Cosmo soon gets
unblooded and they systematically take out these Spanish, these Spanish fishermen and break this

(37:54):
drug drink, but at the same time Cosmo's wife is petitioning through her local MP to get the rights back.
So there's about that political kind of cut and thrust as well as Cosmo just like knocking
fuck at a Spanish guy. He's playing Cosmo's wife. He was playing Cosmo's wife. If I didn't see Smith,
I think she'd be a good Cosmo's wife. That's brilliant. I go, I think a Trotherman's top

(38:20):
might list out because it's Cosmo. Like it, it sounds fucking amazing. Yeah, I think that could be
top might list because I still really want to see the ship build around the cross. We can, we can,
we can, a flashbacks to Cosmo's like price fighting days in the pub car parks and the, the, the young
Cosmo who could pick up play the young Cosmo. It was like a young sort of red haired actor
when he's there, the 20s and some. Early 20s, I don't know. I was thinking my instant thought is,

(38:44):
of course, like Tony current or Kevin McKits, but yeah, a very little. A young red haired in his 20s,
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Not sure. Come back to that. Okay. Fourth one on my list.
It's not really a profession, but it is, it kind of is in Scotland, the J.K.
It is. Now, let's be careful not to rip off Hobo with a shot. Yeah. Yeah.

(39:07):
Careful here. Let's see. So the J.K. is, so it's, um, Rory McCann, right?
Place the J.K. So Rory, Rory is an ex sort of MI6 assassin, right? And he's, so it has been so haunted
by the things that he's had to do on behalf of both her and his majesty's government that,

(39:28):
they said to walk away from it and he's just, he just can't help. He just, he's got a bit of a
leaving Las Vegas neck cage, right? We just wanted to drink himself to death, right? He said
that off. So he's, you know, he's, and he's prominent on the streets of Glasgow because he's like,
fucking six, eight or something watching about, uh, drinking a, a drink, a drink, a drink in a bottle,

(39:49):
a balloon on and being belligerent and everything. But then he meets less young asylum-seeker
women who takes pity on him. Yeah, she finds him at his lowest deb, right? He's, he's fucking
falling asleep in her, her government house that she's had, which is in this really shitty part of
Glasgow. He's, she, she, she finds him, she finds him, she finds him flat and he's back in the garden,

(40:11):
right? He's, he's, he's pissed and shatty-self. He's just in a terrible state, right? So, so, so, so,
so, her and her, her and her young teenage son managed to drag him in, get him in the bath,
clean him up, sober him up and, uh, she's, she's very, very, very kindly invite something to stay
until they sort some self-out. So, Rory starts to, uh, big Rory starts to realize that he needs to make

(40:35):
some changes. In the meantime, the young son, teenage sons, getting a lot of grief of, uh, the local
young team, um, which is being coordinated by, like, a grown man, played by Robert Carlyleys, so
while they seem like, bath me an eds, he's actually got this, like, sex trafficking and drug-ring going on
that Carlyleys using these young guys to, um, sort of facilitate all this, then big Rory. He's like the

(41:01):
modern day Scottish figure. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And he's like, abuse in these young guys. They
not like sexually abuse them, but just, like, kind of knocking them about and bullying them and stuff.
So, then big Rory gets involved, then he fucking starts taking cuts out with, with, like, zero prejudice.
That's so, it's amazing. Oh, fuck. These all sound brilliant. I mean, if anyone rips these off, then we'll

(41:25):
bear, I think, because it's a podcast, and it's out there in the ether, then we've got copyright
claim on this, well, you've got copyright claim on this. Okay, um, the last one, the DA that sells
Avaon. Right, so, I think the DA is played by, uh, Downey's look, uh, Jerry Butler, who said, uh, he said,
a big job in America that's all crashing down. He said to come back to, he said to come back to, like,

(41:50):
bunfermel and with these tail between his legs. And, uh, the only thing the only gig he can get is
is selling Avaon door to door. But then it turns out that there's another guy that, that Jerry remembers
from school that he never got on with a bit of a school bully that's played by Ying Len, right? And
he's got the Avaon, all the Avaon neighborhoods like in his back pocket. So, Jerry doesn't

(42:15):
have you lies, so when he goes shopping on doors, people are like scared to talk to him and everything,
kind of understand what's going on. And then a couple, uh, a couple of Ying Len's,
heavies get older, but I'm telling you that this is fucking big Ying's patch, right? You only get,
you only get one warning. And then, uh, yeah, we just take it from there. Uh, but so also turns out
that Jerry is always at a job in America. He's also quite hard-cunt as well, so he's not, he's not

(42:40):
wanting to be in, he's not really wanting to be intimidated, um, but it takes his warning and, uh,
tries a different neighborhood, but it turns out that's one of Big Ying's as well. So these guys come
back to, you know, we warned you, Jerry knocks absolutely fuck out of them. And then, uh, he slowly
starts taking up the Avaon territory. But in a fair way, you know, people don't feel that they have to buy
Avaon from Jerry, you know, he gives him the choice, but we're, we're Big Ying. It's like protection money,

(43:04):
you've got to buy your, your midgie sprays and your, and your, uh, sustainable, the odorants and
stuff off of Big Ying, and you have to buy a certain amount every week of just a matter if your
bathroom cupboard is full of Avaon gear. You could keep buying Riyans guys or put your Wendy's in.
Yeah, we'd love to see that as well. I would love to see all five of those. Yeah, that's, that's amazing.

(43:25):
Um, I only had one idea and it was for number five, the Dan at Cells Avaon. And it was, uh, a younger
Brian Petifer, right? In, in Cumbernold and he's a single father. He's lost his job. So, yes,
a resort to sell an Avaon, right? Door to door. But he can't shift any Avaon, right? He's, he's not,
he's not doing well. And he comes home one night and his kids are crying and like, why,

(43:50):
what's wrong? He's like, they're getting bullied at school because all the other kids are saying
your Dacel, say for it. And they're all upset. And he's just down on his luck and then he goes into the
bookies one day to put a line on and his pen doesn't work. And he just fucking loses it. And it's like
falling down with Michael Douglas, a Brian Petifer in, in Cumbernold. And he just fucking smashes,

(44:13):
fuck out the bookies. He goes into the bakers, they've made rules. So he just goes fucking mental in
the bakers, smash his fuck out of it. And I think it ends with a, like he just, it's just carnage
throughout Cumbernold with Brian Petifer, shouting about nobody wants my fucking Ava, you're all fucking
cunts. And it ends I think with a low speed car chase and a golf cart up the M8. That's, that's

(44:42):
the idea for Brian Petifer and we're petting for on the Riffa Cumbernold town centre. You know,
armed police all around them, people trying to talk them down and he goes into his jacket pocket,
the police think he's going for a gun in the shoot them and it turns out it was just a wee botter
than Ava and Midgie's spray lights. Yeah, because it was somebody that accomplished it, it's

(45:07):
so hard to just try to get rid of the midgie. Midgie's are bastards. Oh, fantastic. Well, those are
five films I would be desperate to see and Holly would execs, or Scottish, the Scottish film foundation,
if you're interested in getting some funding there then we'll be happy to be consultants and we'll

(45:27):
write the script. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We've got the outline there, so yeah, we'll happily write
the script for those. I'm pretty confident that most of the actors who mentioned are probably available for
it. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I'm pretty sorry. I don't know, Jerry Butler, you might have a bit of a
trouble with it. I think, you might like a wee Scottish project, you know, it's been a well-sensitied
one. Yeah. Thanks, so. Right. Okay, well, before we go on to what we're going to be talking about today,

(45:53):
let's have a little word from our sponsors. And our sponsor is of course Dorick Skateboards,
a skateboard brand created by Gary Kemp, whose main focus is to explore the people and the culture
of Aberdeen and the Northeast of Scotland, and to create designs that reflect life in that area.
Dorick Skateboards screen print their own decks in their studio by Gary's Fair Hand,

(46:15):
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(46:36):
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(47:22):
DorickScapeBoards.com, link in the description of this episode. Okay, Nikki, so it was your choice,
to pick this week's content, I guess, so what are we talking about today? Thank you, Greg. So,
first of all, and we never normally do this on the Swally, but as you will have seen from the title of
this episode, we are covering the TV adaptation of Mayflies from 2022. Now, the reason we never normally

(47:47):
say this is because most of the stuff we cover is from the 80s and 90s, or 2000s, and if you haven't
seen it by now, that's not our problem, it's your problem. But as this is only 15 months old, I want
to say, if you haven't seen Mayflies, or if you haven't read the book that it's based on, we will be
spoiling this shit out of this, so just a warning. I also want to give a trigger warning on this episode,
and what we're about to discuss is very heavy on the subject of cancer, and about someone who's

(48:13):
suffering from the disease, who chooses to die on their own terms. So, if you've been affected by
either of those topics, and feel uncomfortable listening to this, then we won't be offended if you
choose to switch off now. I also want to say that Greg and I have both lost parents to cancer
in recent years, and we're not going to be going in depth on that, but we may touch upon our experiences.

(48:34):
So, I just wanted to warn any listeners that might be triggered by discussions of those topics
that you've had a warning. Okay, right, let's go on with this. So, today, we're covering the
2022 BBC adaptation of the 2020 Andrew Hagen novel Mayflies, starring Martin Compton,
Tony Curran, and Ashley Jensen. Mayflies follows lifelong friends Jimmy and Tully, as they grapple

(48:57):
with the news that Tully has been diagnosed with terminal cancer. This has made all the more difficult
for Jimmy when Tully asks him to help him to travel to Switzerland to die on his own terms.
Showing during the Christmas period of 2022 on BBC One, the show was met with much critical acclaim
and won a Scottish BAFTA. So, I read the book early 2022, I think. I was aware of it in 2020,

(49:21):
but it was only a year after my mum had passed, and I didn't feel I was ready to read it by the subject
matter, but I'd been eagerly anticipating, I think the show was announced, and it was announced that
Curran and Compton were starring at it, and I was like, right, I have to read the book,
and because I have to see this show. I decided to wait for the right time so that we could cover
it on the swallow, because obviously, you know, it's only been two years since your dad passed as well.

(49:46):
So, I didn't want to do it in the right time. So, this was my first time watching the show,
and you mentioned on the last episode you hadn't read the book, or you hadn't seen the show,
but I believe you've done both. Now Greg, so, what did you think of Mayflies?
So, I mean, I know we're not going to go into like a massive detail in the book, because we're talking
about the TV show. Yeah, but I read the book, I've been away in my travels the last couple of weeks,

(50:10):
obviously, you know, people who have long-term listeners will know that you and I were meeting up in
Brussels a couple of weeks ago, and when I left you in Brussels, I went off to my land.
So, I had the book in my Kindle, and I read it over those kind of few days when I was on the road.
I think, you know, with the TV show, I'm glad I read the book first in one way, not so much in others,

(50:31):
but the TV show, I think, yeah, it's kind of, and the book actually, they're kind of profoundly
Scottish, I think, in the Tony Curran's character, Tully, his attitude to what's happened to him,
and what he's going through, you know, he, I think it's profoundly Scottish, because he sort of,

(50:54):
there are moments when it overtakes him, but for the most part, his character can
metaphorically stick to fingers up at it, you know, he's, he refuses to let it change his life
too much until it gets particularly bad, and it's sort of unavoidable, but even, even, you know,
not to get ahead, even toward the end, you know, he's still by hook or crook determined to be

(51:17):
the Tully that everybody loves, and, you know, whether that's Anna or Nudolz, whatever.
If I'm being honest, the thing that threw me a wee bit watching the show is, and Marcoson is,
is, he's good as Nudolz, but like Marcoson is 12 years younger than Tony Curran, and they are 14,
14 years younger, and they're, and they're playing like peers, you know, like old friends who are

(51:42):
supposed to be close and age, although I think in the story Tully, Tully is maybe a year or so older
than Nudolz, because he's off, he's off to work when Nudolz is still at school. So, and the other thing
that can threw me off a bit is that Ryan Gordon looks quite a lot taller than Martin Compton.

(52:03):
Ryan Gordon plays the young Nudolz in the flashback scenes to when they were young.
So yeah, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the book, I think, a bit more than the TV show, but I still
really enjoyed the TV show. I think it's the cast, they're brilliant. If I'm, you know, if I'm being
honest, there's, you know, like some parts of Tully's struggle made me think a little bit about

(52:28):
my dad's experiences when he contracted cancer and, you know, as it developed and what he went through
to some extent, but, you know, for the most part, you know, even they completely remove
in my own experiences away from this story, it's still incredibly powerful, you know what, I mean,
they incredibly, I don't think that you even necessarily have to have experience of something

(52:50):
like this to be profoundly moved by it, you know. I would agree with you on that. I think,
so obviously the book is very different from the TV series in that the book is split into two parts.
So the first part is set in 1986, and it's all about this group of friends going down to Manchester
to this festival, and it does focus on Nudolz and Tully in terms of, you know, you kind of know they're

(53:17):
the two good mates, but there are the other three guys there is one, and you know, the first part is
great, and then first part ends, and then part two is 30 years later when Tully calls Nudolz to say that
he has cancer, and yes, he's come up, and I think it's very cleverly done the way that the book is
is written. They obviously couldn't do that in a TV show, like they couldn't have had part one

(53:39):
being the first part of the book, just the young kids, and then the second part being that, I think
they did it very cleverly in terms of the way they weave it in, and it's, you could say they're
knocking people on the head because you see Martin Compson and it goes into the younger version,
but I think it's quite well done the way they do that aspect, so you can relate, okay, so that's

(54:03):
Nudolz, okay, that's Tully, that's hog, okay, get that, you can kind of see the way that they've
done it very cleverly, I think, and it works. I would agree with you, I, despite the fact that
there's a 14-year-old age gap between current and Compson, it never actually took me out of it,
like I did read some online reviews, people saying that well, Tully, current looks like is da, and,

(54:27):
but it didn't matter to me, I'm watching two fucking great Scottish actors, like well, three, sorry,
if I include Ashley Gentson, which you know, and we'll come on to older performances later,
but it didn't take me out of it at all, I genuinely believed that they are best friends,
and it's a testament to their acting ability, that they're so good. I agree with you as well, that I,

(54:49):
it was difficult not to think about my mum watching this, and, but as you say, Tully's,
his testament, his reasoning is that he doesn't want Anna, Ashley Gentson's character, his wife,
to see him kind of with her, and die, and you know, he, some of the quotes, he said, "Don't let me die like a
prick." When he's discussing chemo, it will turn me into someone I'm not, and then the beautiful line

(55:15):
that he says to Martin, to, to, to New York's later on, you know, I want her to remember me whole.
I can't do it, I'm dying, it's gonna be ugly.
This one's all I've got, but you gave me a word, and I'm doing it,
you have to do it right by Anna, tell her, as soon as I get my date, look she might not want to

(55:37):
get in the end, it's my decision. I don't have to ask her permission. It's not about permission, Tully,
so a decency. Look, she loves me, she'll come around, and what if she doesn't?
But if you do this without a blessing, she can make things difficult, legally when we get back.
Not for me, I'm not coming back. Just think about how she'll feel, how I'll feel won't be here

(56:02):
so I won't know. Don't be a decency. Don't this for her too. I want her to remember me whole. Do you
know what I'm the standard? And you know, the whole point of that is like I, you know, I,
I saw my mum in some terrible states towards the end, but I don't remember her like that. Yeah, of
course. Like, yeah, you know, I remember her the way she was before the honest. So it's, it's strange,

(56:27):
but I think, yeah, people will think like that that when they're in that state, like, I don't
want you to remember me like this, but so I can totally understand Tully's viewpoint. Yeah.
And as you say, he's so determined of, of he wants to end it on his own terms. And that's the
character of Tully, and that's what Nudel says at one point that it's Tully, he's always been like this,
he, he wants to go out his own way. And I think it is a, I think it's a great job in terms of,

(56:52):
of building the character of Tully in that way. Yeah, I think, you know, when it's, it's Cudden,
right? I mean, I think Cudden, you know, he's probably, you know, he's probably the,
right, he's probably the, the, the, the perfect age to play a Tully because, you know, this is a,
a guy whose youth has been through the 1980s. So he's, he's grown up in a, kind of working class

(57:13):
environment. He's quite politically driven as a young guy. And as an adult, I mean, he's got that
brilliant line where he says, I'd rather die than go private, you know what I mean? And, you know,
in the, there's, there's little callbacks to like the minor strike, probably more so in the book than
in the, than in the TV show. But I think Cudden, you know, he, he probably grew up at the same time as

(57:35):
all those things were going on. So he, he can identify with the, kind of life experience of the
character of Tully, you know, I think he's, he's absolutely brilliant. Yeah, we just, I know,
Cudden's in this thing that's on sky called, uh, George and Mary, like some historical things,
playing opposite, uh, Julianne Moore. I've seen it advertised a lot over the last few days on

(57:55):
the Tully. But, um, you know, it is great to see him because they often, these in these sort of
period things, outlocking, we spoke about him in this thing that I just mentioned there. It's good
to see him in a really contemporary role, you know what I mean with, you know, playing a character
that I think he obviously identifies with, you know, like as an actor, I'm, you know, he's probably,

(58:16):
and I'm, this is pure conjecture, in my part, having never met Tony Cudden, but the one or two actors
that I do know of or know a little bit, um, quite bohemian sensibilities, quite politically motivated
in one way or another, especially Scottish actors, you know, and, um, you know, I think for him,
this is like, this sort of role for him is, can I bread him butter, you know, and then, and then

(58:39):
adds in the emotional heft of what his character is going through, um, and facing with just sort of
formidable gallows humor all the way to the very, very end, you know, you know, you know, like I said
before, he kind of, this refusing to let it change him into something that he's not prepared to be,

(58:59):
or somebody that he's not prepared to be. Yeah, he's just, he's absolutely brilliant in it. I really
hope this leads to more, kind of, leading man roles for, uh, Cudden, me see, like, a lot more of them,
because he's a formidable actor. I mean, this is his fifth appearance on the culture,
Swally, so he played the travel agent in Shallagrave. Um, he was obviously in Red Road with Martin

(59:22):
Cumpson, so it's a bit of a reunion. He was fantastic in Calibur, of course, yeah, covered very
early on, and then, of course, Outlaw King and now Mayflies, did you ever watch the, uh, the US show
Your Honor with Brian Cranston? No, I never saw that. Tony Curren plays like the big baddie in that,
and I think the premise is that Brian Cranston's son accidentally kills Tony Curren's son,

(59:48):
right? And but Tony Curren plays like this big gangster, and it's, I would recommend, I haven't
watched the second season of it, because there is a second season, right? But the first season is
fantastic, so I would recommend that you're on, yeah, Tony Curren is just absolutely fucking brilliant.
A great actor. Um, I mean, he's a great actor, and this is just, yeah, this, this role is just fantastic

(01:00:11):
for him. I mean, the one thing that his performance, Dead's, maybe think about as far as my father
goes, is they've been, you know, like, my dad for years and years and years, like long before he,
he had cancer, you know, if, whatever you saw, if we saw something on the TV of some poor person,
just, they can, a wheelchair and, but maybe somebody would be more on neuron disease, something like that,

(01:00:36):
like, something incurable, debilitating illness, you would say, if I ever get like that, just push
me off something high, right? So see that all the time. But then when he, you know, when he,
and even when, you know, when he was first diagnosed with cancer, I think once he got over the initial
sort of shock of it, he was reasonably pragmatic in the sense that, well, you know, I'm going to do all

(01:00:58):
the right things and whether it might mean that I don't live to be a hundred, you know, I'm still
determined to go as long as I can. And then when he, but then when he found out that his condition
was terminal and he didn't, you know, and what he had taken to be years and years in reality became

(01:01:20):
months, I mean, he was, he, he, he, he did eventually kind of sort of get there, but initially,
he was completely crushed, you know what I mean, like that kind of the bravado and the optimism
initially went completely out of them. But then he, you know, when he'd sort of processed the,
and spoken to us all, when everything else, they can arallied a little bit, well, he rallied a lot,

(01:01:42):
you know, and he was sort of determined to be sort of set himself well, get to Christmas, then I'll
get to such and such and such and such and you know, when he did his best, but eventually, as
unfortunately, as happens to everybody with the type of cancer he's got eventually, it took him,
you know, so, you know, I, and I think my dad would have liked the sort of attitude of Tully, you know,

(01:02:03):
I think in that, this, you know, very gallows humor, I mean, I made a joke with my dad after we found out
that he was terminal and I, you know, I need, he can laugh, but I felt a bit bad about it because,
you know, I was out of nervousness, but when I, when I got into his house, I had to do, um,
I had some self-isolation. Well, I didn't actually, for that part, but I got into his house,

(01:02:24):
because he had, be gone in the hospital quite abruptly, there was a pot of tea on the counter
that had been there for maybe a couple of weeks, so it was mingin', right? You know, so when I,
when I was in the hospital, I said, um, you know, I may obviously, we had been used by this point
and everything else. I mean, you know, what this situation was and I said, oh, um, I said, do you know,

(01:02:47):
there's a pot of tea and there's a pot of tea in the counter that had been there for ages that
I had to throw away and inked in the kettle out. I said, I don't know now if I should have preserved
it because it's maybe the last cup of tea that you'll make in the house and then I kind of thought,
you know, like, because normally that's sort of the my dad's name, a joke about it, and we kind of look
to each other for a second. We kind of look to each other for a second and then he did laugh, you know,
what I mean, and I felt, I felt initially quite relieved, but I felt like, absolutely dog shit,

(01:03:10):
later on when I was thinking about it, you know what I mean, because it was still, it wasn't that long
after he had got the news, you know, and like, I'm trying to sort of cheat him up and make
that joke and things and, you know, but I guess it's, you know, you don't really know how, you know,
it's difficult to know how to act around people who are dealing with that sort of diagnosis and

(01:03:31):
that situation. Yeah, I mean, I had a different situation in terms of, you know, my mum got diagnosed
and I took her to every doctor's appointment and every chemo session and everything and she was
adamant. She did not want to know. She would say to the doctor, I don't want to know. I don't want to
know, like, how long or what it is. Like, she had no idea. So therefore, I had no idea because

(01:03:53):
I couldn't ask and it was just one day, I think I went into the hospital to pick up a prescription
and I was able to see the doctor and I said to him, look, just can you tell me, like, how long has she
got? And he said, that, be honest, I'm amazed she's still alive. She's, she's fighting it, but,
you know, he's like maybe six months. Yeah. And I had to deal with knowing that, but not being able to

(01:04:16):
tell her. Yeah, yeah, because she didn't want to know. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, that's, that's horrible
having that feeling of knowing, but, you know, within six months, I'm going to, I'm going to lose it,
but yeah, she has no idea because she didn't want to know and she didn't want to die. But I understand,
I understand that. You know, I completely understand that as I'm sure you do, because I think,
I think if, you know, if you're, you know, in Tully's case, he's told that he's got, you know,

(01:04:42):
without chemo, he's got a certain amount of months. It's a, it's, it's, it's horrible knowledge
to have, you know, if that's, you know, do you know what I mean? It's, I can completely understand
your mum that wanting to know because what a burden that knowledge is because you immediately just
think, well, I imagine, I imagine if I ever try and put myself into that type of situation,
I think my immediate thought would be right, I've only got this time and there's all these things

(01:05:05):
that I always want you to do that I never did that I won't be able to do it. Do you know what I mean?
And I think, you know, if your mum are not wanting to know, you know, then maybe she, you know,
if she's, if she's, was well enough, maybe there were some things that she was able to do that she'd
always wanted to, you know, I mean, maybe smaller things that went to physically demanding or whatever
or how for it to go anywhere, you know, things which might have always worked to try and stuff. So,

(01:05:28):
I think it's, I think it's quite a positive attitude to take, you know? So I think Tully, I mean,
they don't fuck around in this, like it's literally the five minute mark bang. You find out Tully's
got cancer, he's got four months to live and that's it. I don't know, I would own all the a few
months ago on Cuba, well, I love Cuba. I was, I was hiccuping out of a lot in the jessons, the drink had been

(01:05:53):
clean enough. So I tell I know when I get home, I'm going to screw them up, you know, that will wound the
frame. But I didn't tell it a bit of the pain, and if I'm completely fucking honest, I've been in
pain for months. So I get home, go to the doctor, she sends me for a scan. And the rest is they say it's cancer.

(01:06:16):
Well, yeah. The suffricus, liver, stomach and lymph nodes, whatever the fuck we are.
I've got four months and that's the short of it.
And it's a beautiful scene with him in noodles when they're by the caravan and he tells him and

(01:06:37):
you know, noodles instantly is like, right, well, we'll go private, we'll fight this and it's almost
like Tully has just accepted it. And he's like, no, I mean, it's first like I'm fucked noodle. Yeah.
And it's okay. But he seems positive and he's, you know, you're going to be my campaign manager.
And it's, it's such a beautiful scene when they're sat in the pub and he's like, right,

(01:07:00):
make a list, you're always good at making lists. And I love that they flash back to that later on
episodes to, I think when they're talking about going to Manchester, or no, it's later in episode one
actually when they're talking about going to Manchester and they're sat in the, um, the flat and he's
like, noodles, make a list. And it's, you know, it's a lovely little flashback that he's always been making
lists. And I absolutely adore that scene when they're in the pub and they're like, okay, first of all,

(01:07:25):
Anna, what do we do about Anna? Yeah. And you know, it's like, well, Mario. Yeah. And it's, it's such a,
a touching, and it's a testament to those two actors that that it just feels like you're just sitting
in the pub, your mates, and they're discussing, you know, a list of what is this guy getting to you
before he dies? Yeah. But it just seems like so much banter and just so well done. And it really is

(01:07:47):
just a, so say, a testament and Tony Conn comes out with amazing lines, you know, um, when he eventually
says to him, so they cover Anna and when he says about chemo, and he's like, nope, nope, no way.
Hmm, cross that off the fucking list. Cross that off. And he's like, put this down Switzerland. And
when noodles like, you want to go to Switzerland on holiday, it's a fucking amazing line. He's like,

(01:08:11):
no, the last place I want to go in holidays, the land of fencing and fucking coupons.
It's, um, it's just fucking brilliant. And, uh, of course, he's like, no, um, I want the Hitler
child out. Yeah. Yeah. It comes up a lot that that term in the book and in the, uh, in the show,

(01:08:37):
in the show, because every time they can catch up on the phone, tell these always looking for an
update on the Hitler child out. Yeah. Yeah. It's a thing, you know, I mean, I think what this,
may have benefited from was it being a three-parter instead of a two-parter, because the thing
that the book does really well is really emphasize how deeply the friendship is between Tully and

(01:09:04):
Nudolz, because there's all this, there's all this stuff about Nudolz divorcing his mum and dad, you know,
and him spending a lot of time in Tully's house with his mum and his sister, you know,
they're making soup together. They don't have the scene where they make the soup together with the
stolen vegetables, but there's a lot, you know, and the part that Tully plays in getting Nudolz

(01:09:26):
out of a kill-winning and off to university, because Nudolz now is a is a highly regarded and
respected and successful writer, you know, and in the book, he holds a lot of the reason of his success
was because Tully kind of gave him the kick in the arse that he needed to go and make the most of
his natural ability in talent, and then there's also the flip side of it with Nudolz

(01:09:50):
encouraging Tully to get out of the factory that he's working in and go to night school and do his
highers, and because Tully when we meet him as an adult is a schoolteacher, you know, and intellectual,
in a different way to Nudolz intellectual is, and Nudolz is all sort of Russian and Russian opera,
and, you know, a lot of like incredibly famous and deep writers and philosophers and thinkers,

(01:10:17):
whereas Tully's got a little bit of that intellectualism, but he doesn't weigh it on his sleeve in the way
that Nudolz's character is sort of, is kind of, is kind of, is kind of poked fun at by some of the other
characters in the story, although I don't think he does avertly wear his intellectualism on his sleeve
per se, in either the book or the show, maybe in some moments, but Tully's intellectualism again,

(01:10:41):
it's more of this sort of politically charged principle, you know, the fact that he is a schoolteacher,
shape it, and in the community that he grew up in, um, shape in young lives, you know what I mean
then trying to put kids in the right path and stuff, it's sort of subtle, but it's profound.
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you on that. I think I agree to go back to the start of that point

(01:11:05):
that maybe a three-parter might have been better, it's going to like a little bit more depth.
Yeah, just the, just the story of the book. Just to really emphasize that friendship, because
I think if I had never read the book and I just watched this, Tully asking Nudolz to help him
die with dignity, you know, might have, it might have thrown me a little bit, because I understood

(01:11:26):
the depth of the relationship between these two characters from within the book, it feels much
more natural that Nudolz would be, that Nudolz would be the guy that Tully would go to out of all
that group of friends, they're the two that have stayed in touch over the years like consistently,
you know, like sort of tibzus I think is on the kind of periphery, and then there's other ones like
Hogg who are, who have just sort of dropped out of the friendship circle, you know what I mean,

(01:11:50):
the who, you know, can come back in for the wedding, but they're the two that have been firm friends
all these years, so it makes, you understand, because it's quite a, I mean imagine,
imagine being asked to do that, you know, they could wait for some more, we're saying at the beginning of
the show, beginning of the episode, rather how, you know, do anything for each other as best friends,

(01:12:11):
which we would, but either of us doing that for the other, you know what I mean, I mean, it would
be devastating, it would be a devastating thing to do, you know, be devastating to do, like, oh,
from the beginning of the process to the very end of it. I agree, but yeah, if that's what you've
really wanted, then same way, if that's what I really wanted, then yeah, I think we'd be there for each other.

(01:12:32):
I think that's, you know, a beautiful thing that we understand this, but you're right, I think they,
they maybe don't go into it enough. There's a couple of mentions of it in terms of there is one
scene where noodles does say, you know, about Tully, like he did so much for me, so, you know, I have to,
I have to, and there is a little bit of, you know, you see him at the family home, of course, with them,

(01:12:56):
his mum and, yeah, and woodbine, and you get the impression that he basically just stays there most of
the time because he hates his parents and is divorcing them. Yeah. But it doesn't go into enough
in depth of, you know, things and of course, you know, Tully buying him the ticket, for example,
for the, the Manchester thing, like it's, uh, yeah, I feel that could have gone a bit more in depth

(01:13:17):
into that, so you really appreciate the relationship because in the book it is so, yeah,
determined that they are, you know, such close friends and they've done so much for each other,
so yeah, I think you're right, it could have, I'm going to like the fact it was two episodes because
it was only two hours long, so, you know, it's, it's ideal for this while I do, but I agree it could
have, like it, it didn't warrant like a six-part series, maybe a three-part would have been good,

(01:13:40):
like, you know, just to go a little bit more because we didn't see enough, you know, of the other
characters, you know, and it, it's very just touched upon in terms of, like Limbo dying.
Yeah, like, you know, in the, in the book it's, it's a lot more in depth in terms of Limbo's
data and stuff, but this is just kind of, you know, it's like three quarters of the way through

(01:14:03):
Episode 2, you kind of realize that Limbo's died, or it's, yeah, it's quite, um, I mean, to be
devil's advocate, you know, the other thing is, and maybe this was in the mind of the producers,
is it's, emotionally it's a, it's a very, very, very, uh, no, I don't say difficult,
watch, but, you know, they, I'm sort of thinking they are, you know, you know, we're talking about

(01:14:26):
the Iron Claw the other day, and how, and it's about a family of wrestlers in the 70s and 80s that
were just, the brothers just, like, beleaguered by tragedy, but the film leaves one of the brothers out,
and doesn't tell the story of one of the brothers, them in a book, they're in the opposite, the
producer and director said, I think it just be too much tragedy for an audience to really withstand,

(01:14:50):
because the stories of the brothers that are told in the film are incredibly distressing and,
and sad and everything, and I wonder if maybe more episodes of this story might have been a,
maybe that might have been in their minds, well, you know, it's a very, very, profoundly emotional
story, and would three hours of Tully's, and to a lesser extent, noodles struggle, and, uh,

(01:15:17):
what he's going through and stuff, wouldn't be too much for him, because the thing is that the BBC,
for some fucking God, God knows why, put this on as part of the Christmas schedule, and, you know,
yeah, it's not exactly the fucking open-up of our Christmas special, you know what I mean, it's,
it's a fucking deep cup of the light-wish Christmas special. I think it's a tough cell, because

(01:15:40):
it's a tough subject matter, how do you describe this book? And I, I've had this like last night,
I was speaking to a friend, and I said I'm recording a podcast tomorrow, and she said, "Oh, what's
about?" It's about a guy who has terminal cancer and asks friends taking a sweat something to end
his life, like, "Oh, that sounds really good, yeah, that's got laugh." It's a, like, it's a really tough

(01:16:02):
subject matter, but at the heart of this, and the heart of the book, and I think that's one thing,
they do get across in the TV adaptation, but maybe not enough, like, it's, well, maybe they do,
actually, it's a tale of friendship, and why friendship is so important. 100%, but, but more for the fact,
male friendship, and this is something you don't see a lot depicted in TV and films, in terms of,

(01:16:26):
you know, male friendship is all about, let's go out and fucking get pissed and shagbirds and do
drugs and go to the football and do this. You don't see a lot of fucking, like, heterosexual males,
who have had such a friendship and a bond telling each other that they love each other. And, you know,
I'm lucky, I'm in a position I tell you that I love you, because I do. Yeah. And you tell me that as well.

(01:16:49):
And, you know, we're fine with that, because I do, I love you. And you don't see that on depicted
on TV and on screen enough, I think. And that's why this is such an important show, and such an
important story, that it shows that the bond of male friendship with someone you've known for so
many years, and, you know, as I started to show, I do anything for you. And I know you do anything for me.

(01:17:14):
It doesn't get depicted enough, I think, nowadays. Yeah, right. Because it's, it's gay, you know,
to be like that. Oh, I don't know. You know what I mean, though, but it is. Like, you know what I mean?
But that's the kind of, I think we are making inroads into that of it is acceptable now, and there is
a lot about male mental health, talking to each other and stuff. And I think it's, it's so good from

(01:17:35):
to have this from a male perspective, I think. I think for Urgenteration and the male generations
that precede does, it's definitely, there's definitely like a, a school of thought that it is,
you know, that you just said, oh, it's about gay or whatever. I think for the younger people now,
you know, for whatever reason is perhaps a bit more, you know, like, there's, I don't know, but I think

(01:17:59):
about, you know, Urgenteration, and, you know, something that's come from another day, that I always
thought you and I were part of the same generation label, but we're not, um, according to my daughter,
who, who Googled it, I'm Generation X, your Generation Z, um, but you're, you're, you're only
Generation Z by a ball here. I'm, yeah. On the cost. Yeah. I think I, I think I, I, I think I'm more

(01:18:20):
Generation X to be honest. I think I emotionally, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, it's, it's all
what we do is the sort of technology you grew up with and everything else. You know, certainly,
you know, if I think about the friends that I've had over the years that I've stayed in touch with
from school and, you know, later, you know, and later on, you know, because you and I have been friends

(01:18:41):
since we were in our early 20s, well, you and your late teens, me and my early 20s, then we hit it off
straight away and we've been close friends ever since. I've got like a friend from school called
Brendan that I've known since I was 14. I don't see him very often. In fact, I look like I've seen him
since I moved to the Middle East. So there's probably been like nine years since I saw him. That said,

(01:19:01):
we do stay in touch on WhatsApp and I would consider him to be among my very close friends as well.
You know, and I always did when we used to spend a lot of time together, you know, so, you know, I think
your right men's, right men's mental health especially has really come to the forefront over the
last few years and I think unfortunately the reason for that is because the rates and male suicide

(01:19:26):
have increased significantly and, you know, they obviously we scour the news every week for
sort of swallow centric stories that we can have a laugh about on the podcast, but in the in the
mid-stove going through the news, you come across incredibly sad stories as well and a lot of them,
there's been a lot over the years when doing the podcast of young guys in their 20s taking their

(01:19:49):
own lives, you know, for a multitude of different reasons. And I don't remember that when I was younger,
when I was a kid at high school and stuff, I mean, I don't know anybody from my generation, sorry,
from my sort of peer group, I've certainly not heard of anybody from my school peer group who have
committed suicide, you know, I mean girls or guys, but that's what we're talking about guys,

(01:20:11):
but it seems to be something that is quite, it happens quite frequently, especially in the UK
and probably elsewhere in the world, but, you know, the UK is obviously the stories that we hear about
because it's a Scottish press that we, that we analyse every week. I can't remember the exact stats
and the exact age, but is it not the suicide is the biggest killer of males under the age of 35?

(01:20:34):
Yeah, in the UK. I believe you're right, it's something very close to that, yeah. So, you know,
it's different, I mean, it's, I think, you know, I obviously am raising to teenagers at the moment,
they're girls, I don't think I would like to be a teenager in 2023, I don't think I'd like to be young,
you know, I, you know, I guess everybody says it, I'm glad that I was young when I was young,

(01:20:58):
you know what I mean? Yeah, they, they, they, I'm thankful for that. They, I was young.
You imagine if, if fucking camera phones and Snapchat and Instagram were around when we were
going out in our late teens, early 20s, Jesus Christ, we'd be canceled then.
You know, they definitely spent a night in the fucking neck and Aberdeen anyway. That was John's manager.

(01:21:20):
Everton's on his phone. So, Martin Constant, who plays Newdals, his six appearance
of the culture, Swally, he's been in switch 16, Red Road, the Wee Man, Philse, Barney Thompson,
and now Mayfly. Yeah, it's now I watched this twice this week. I watched it, to watch it,
and then I watched it to make notes. First time I watched it, I thought, I mean, spoiler

(01:21:42):
at late Ron, I was, I was blown away by Tony Carrin's performance and Ashley Jensen, who will get
on to shortly. Martin Constant, I thought was great. However, I did think in a way, he's just playing
Martin Constant. If, if that makes sense, do you know what I mean? Like I'm like, he's Martin, he's,
it's just Martin Constant. However, on the second watch, I paid very close attention to his performance

(01:22:04):
and I take back what I just said. He's fucking brilliant. Yeah, he's, there's tiny little nuances
of the things he does that I didn't appreciate on the first watch and watching it back, just some
of the facial expressions he does. There's, there's one bit, it's two bits, sorry, towards the end,
the second episode. When he gets the pen, the look he gives to Anna is just phenomenal. And towards

(01:22:29):
the very end, when Tully is about to sign the papers that he is accepting that he's about to end his
life, and that's one of the things I got almost watched, I hadn't read the book like before watching
it because he pauses and you're thinking, fuck, is he gonna do it? Is he, is he gonna do it? And
noodles on Martin Constant, just as he's about the pen is about to hit the paper, he puts his hand out

(01:22:53):
and it's almost as if it's about to say Tully, just don't. And then as he just puts it out, Tully puts
the pen on the paper and starts signing. And he styles it out by taking this hand back, taking off his
glasses and just pinching the bridge of his nose. Yeah, yeah. And you're like, that is such a fucking subtle
thing that I did not really notice the first time of watching this. But oh my god, if that was a

(01:23:13):
director note or if that was you, Constant, that did that, like it's, he's fucking broken in this.
Like I take back what I said, like honestly, the first watch, I was like, he's just being Martin
Constant, but he's not, he's so good. I mean, I wonder with him, you know, because famously he's from
a Greenert, um, Martin Constant, so he's from that sort of part of the world, um, yeah, you know,

(01:23:35):
I think here, you know, we know that he, his story, he comes from fairly humble beginnings, you know,
kind of picked by Ken Loach, no acting experience, uh, for sweet 16. And, you know, he's gone onto a
fantastically successful career, some great performances under his belt. Yeah. But, you know, I wonder if,
although he, you know, as we said earlier, Ron, he's a lot younger than the character he's portraying

(01:23:58):
as supposed to be in this. He, um, I think he, you know, he maybe knows that world, you know, he's sort of at home,
you know, in, oh, he's not from Cawinning, but he's kind of at home in Cawinning. It's a, you know,
it's, it's a town, it's a neighborhood that he recognizes, you know, and I, you know, I wonder if

(01:24:18):
when he comes from is what drives this performance, you know, because you would think, well, how would,
how would this guy, how would this actor understand what it was like to grow up in the early 1980s?
Do you know what I mean? In the mid-1980s, how would he understand that? You know, how, how, how would he
be expected to be able to play an older version of a character like that? But because he understands

(01:24:42):
the area, he understands Scotland, and, you know, like, there's, it's a very, you know, we'll go on to it
later when we're doing the categories, but now I'm trying to come up with archetypal Scottish
women. There are tons of both Over and Sottel, profound the Scottish women's in this, you know,
and he, you know, I think it's his understanding of what it means to come from the west of Scotland.

(01:25:07):
I think that helps him embody this character, you know, and I'm sure he, I'm sure I'll be very
surprised if Mark Thompson hasn't got, because I know, I know I follow him on Twitter or X rather,
he's back in Greenland, a walt, you know, just judging by his Twitter. So I'm sure he's got a number
of close friends who he remains close friends with who maybe haven't gone on to do the sort of things

(01:25:31):
that he even on to do, but he stays in touch and he goes and he spends, he goes to the pub with them
and they hang out. I think he, I feel like he understands what it is to be part of a close net group of
friends, you know, in the way that, in the way that we do with our mutual friend, you know, it's not a
massive group. There's a couple, there's a couple of kind of honorary temporary members that we

(01:25:53):
allow in now and again, we're back in Aberdeen or whatever that we allow in for a little while,
but really it's, it's you me and her, and our other friend, who are, you know, and I wonder sometimes if
some of the guys that we allow in occasionally, I wonder what they think of that, you know, what they
think of us, and other bothers me, but I wonder if they think, you know, those three are fucking weird,

(01:26:15):
they know, you can't really get properly in there, you know, despite the fact that they've known us
almost for as long as if no one each other, you know? Yeah, you can penetrate the chorus.
I don't know. I think the one of the other factors of Tulley's decision is that he doesn't want to die
and Fiona is sister says that, like he doesn't want to die like his dad did. Yeah, like he had to watch

(01:26:39):
his dad played brilliantly by Steven McCormey, Swally favourite, you know, he had to watch his dad die.
Yeah, and in a really, in a really undignified way, on the floor of the kitchen or whatever,
the floor of the living room, so I fight and for breath. And as, and as when they're under pool at the
YMCA, when he's telling noodles that his dad's had a heart attack and he's, is he okay? He's like,

(01:27:02):
yeah, he's come through, but it's just a star, isn't it? Yeah, and he knows that his dad's going to die
eventually. He speaks about his mum, having a wipe, is that's chin? But yeah, his dad dies in front of
him and that must have had an impact on him thinking, I don't want to see Anna. I don't want Anna to see
me like that. Well, that's a thing with the relationship. I mean, I'll just say quickly before I

(01:27:26):
make my point. McColl has a handful of lines in this. A lot of, a lot of the part calls for him to
be looking on, you know, but again, he's such a fucking fantastic actor. You know what I mean? Like, he's
just brilliant and he's, you know, despite the fact there's not a great deal to say in it, he's just
brilliant as Tully's dad, but you know, really you see, because, you know, the character of Tully and

(01:27:49):
it's explained a bit more in the book, but he's not, I think he's sort of yearns for a closeness
with his dad that he had when he was a wee boy that is kind of, it's sort of died a little bit as he
becomes a teenager and gets closer to adulthood. And there's a lot of bravado about, from Tully,
about his relationship with his dad, but we understand through the things he says, things he does,

(01:28:12):
things we see that he, he actually misses the closeness with his dad. And I think, you know, there's,
there's a kind of pity in, not pity in, but you know, he feels for his dad's struggle, because he's
dad from another generation, a generation that would maybe spend an entire work and life in the same
industry, an industry that a community has been built around, which at the time of the kind of younger

(01:28:36):
moments in the show, like in the 80s, these communities that are being decimated by what the British
government at the time was doing to British industry and characters like Woodbine are the, are the,
they are the kind of the fallout, you know, the, of what has happened there. And, you know, so there's
that part of it. And then also as you touched on having to be with his father as he passes away,

(01:29:00):
abruptly at home on the floor and being helpless and not being able to have any kind of consolidation
with his dad, you know, there's, he never had the chance to sit down with his dad man to man,
like adult to adult. And, you know, can I talk things through and understand each other and get that

(01:29:20):
relationship back that they had when Tully was a wee boy. I feel a big part of that is what, is
which drive in Tully's decision to end his own life, you know, and he's, and he's, he's haunted by it,
despite all his kind of a bit of adult as he's going through it, you know. No, 100% I completely agree
with you on that. That is exactly, I think, what drives him to, to decide to take his life into his

(01:29:44):
own hands and, you know, the matter of like, he knows he's got four months to live. He doesn't want to,
to see Anna die in front of him, like, you know, heated with woodbikes. Yeah, yeah. I think that's a
perfect thing. I'm talking about Anna. Yeah. Ashtie Jensen. Has she ever been better? I mean, she's a
fantastic actress, but oh my god in this, she's just incredible. Well, the thing with her is they were

(01:30:06):
sort of used to seeing her. I mean, the first thing I ever saw then was X-rays, but she's fantastic
in it. I mean, she's a, she's a perfect, kind of foil for Ricky Treve's character in X-rays,
isn't it? Ricky Treve's is kind of playing a bit of a version of himself and X-rays, I think, more
soul than as David Brent, but she's just brilliant in it. Yeah. But, you know, she's, she's got a real

(01:30:26):
sort of comedic vein, I think, Ashley Jensen. So, we're used to seeing her in these sort of funny
roles, you know, you know, like this is an incredibly emotionally charged role, you know, playing the,
playing the sort of soulmate of someone who she's entirely devoted to, who is kind of vertically
taking the decision to end his own life with his best mate. And she has so many incredibly moving

(01:30:52):
moments and lines in this, you know, I think the one, the one that really resonated was with me,
as it she says something along the lines, I'm paraphrasing that bitch says, you know, noodles has had
years and years and years of a tully. Yeah. You know, I've only had, remember what she says, I've only had
X amount of years, you know what I mean? And, you know, she, you know, there's a real authenticity about

(01:31:15):
about that, I can imagine, you know what I mean? Like a real authenticity about it, you know, like I've
known you for almost 25 years. I've been with my wife for 18 years, but the relationship I have with
you is, and it's very different, but obviously, very different to what I've, yeah, not less sexual,
not quite as much sex, but you know, there's, you know, there's, there is that, let me come back to it

(01:31:42):
again, there is something about that close male friendship that, you know, as much as, that I don't
think they marriage or even long term fiancee, it's something, it can't quite always penetrate it,
you know what I mean? There's always going to be, sorry, it was a poor choice of words there, but
yeah, I'm giggling you like this whole boy, but you know, I think there's always going to be that, you know,

(01:32:03):
like, wives, girlfriends, they, I think they like the fact that their husbands, boyfriends have
really close best friends, and they sort of think it's sort of cute, or you know, it's nice, it's
really nice, you know, Greg's got his best friend that he's been best friends with for 25 years,
nearly, and they do a podcast, and blah, blah, blah, blah, but I don't think, you know, no disrespect to my

(01:32:26):
wife, but I don't think she really understands the deep the friendship goes, you know, but I think
and I think that's what Ashley Jenson does brilliantly is Anna. She acknowledges this incredibly
longstanding emotional friendship, but as she starts to, she begins to understand how deep it is
from noodles helping Tully, and that's when it becomes difficult for her. They, along, along with the

(01:32:53):
fact that Tully's made this decision, that he, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't want to go for as long
as they can. He wants to end his life before it gets really bad and debilitating, but the friendship
part of it as well, she just almost shifls betrayed by this friendship and excluded by it, you know,
which would be incredibly difficult for the partner, whether it was male or female to be going

(01:33:15):
to have to deal with an association like this, you know. I think is Iona that says it, or,
kind of towards the end, like when Nudeau says, like, I'm his best friend, you know, I've known him
all these years, and Iona says, yeah, but tomorrow, Fiona's, Anna's going to be his wife, and you're like,
okay, that's a, what do you put, where does the hierarchy come? Best friend, wife, like it's kind of,

(01:33:39):
and that's a beautiful way of kind of putting it in terms of what's more important there.
I think, I think, just to jump in to your point there, again, I think there's a generational thing
there, because, you know, you, you know, for me, I'm a child of divorce. You, you know, you were raised
by your mum, you went, they're not a lot to do, you're bad, you know what I mean? So, you know, like,
for you and I, I think there, and people like us, people of our respects of generation,

(01:34:05):
generations, there is a kind of, well, this guy is my best mate, no matter what happens with my
relationship, with my partner, wife, husband, whatever, this is, this guy's still going to be my best
mate. I think generationally, because divorce was less common, people, you know, would stay together
for better or worse, as the vow goes, until the end of one of the other's lives, you know, the

(01:34:29):
friendship becomes, the friendship for us is much more important because we don't know what's going
to happen, right? I know that you and I will always be friends. I hope I stay married for the rest of my
life, but, you know, things could happen, you know, which I know that I'll always have you. I hope
I'll always have my wife, but, you know, I might not for a number of reasons.
I think given Ashley Jensen's history, I don't know if you're aware her husband took his own life

(01:34:53):
in 2017. So, I don't know that. This must have been a difficult role for her to take on.
Yeah, for sure. But you can see the raw emotion in that, like, and it's, it's almost a performance of,
like, as a quality of, you can see, like, someone has gone through something similar in their own
life. Yeah. And I think that really resonates and she's just absolutely fantastic. And, but it's the,

(01:35:18):
she switches so well. Like, the first time you meet her is the dinner scene, whether with, you know,
Tully and noodles. And when Tully says Anna's big fuck off wedding day and she's like, well,
did you not think to ask me? Yeah. And you can see she's kind of angry and emotional. And again,

(01:35:39):
brilliant by Compton, that part we just picks up his plate and Tully's plate and just fucking walks off.
I would do exactly the same, like, I'm getting out of here. Let's see if this. But I think she's,
she's angry and she's upset, but she also knows that he's only got four months to live. So she
can't be angry and upset with him because there's only four months they've got together. And that

(01:36:02):
beautiful line of why would I want to marry a big baby doesn't eat his blueberries? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just, it just fucking quashes any tension, anything. And then when she says like, if you do the
chemo, I'll marry. Yeah. And that forces him in to be in like, okay, fine, I'll do the chemo. And
it's so beautifully played that scene and so understated, just a wide shot in the kitchen with Martin

(01:36:24):
Compton fucking doing the dishes. And it's just, it's so well done. Yeah, I see. She's got a lot of great
moments. I mean, there's a scene when Tully's sort of frustration overtakes him and he has a bit of a
pop up her. She says, I'm not your cat and kick, you know, it's just, she sort of stands up to him.
And then there's another moment when they're, they're sort of having a bit of a cuddle and

(01:36:46):
he says he wants to be by himself. And she says, well, that's fine. I've got a lot more important things to do,
you know, yeah. But obviously she doesn't have anything more important to do. But, you know, she,
she understands him, you know, she understands why he does maybe need a moment by himself, you know,
you know, she, she ascertains that this is, you know, there's, I can't compare this to anything.

(01:37:10):
And if he needs me by himself, I've got to give him what he wants.
Let me be on my own. I'm bearing the tone on my own.
Okay. You know, I've got a lot more important things to be doing anyway, so, you know,

(01:37:31):
that is being the kitchen if you need me, though. Okay.
Oh, get out, P.
Yeah, she's fantastic in it. And again, I hope it leads to the, I mean, she's just,
she's just taken over from Tugay Henshaw in Shetland, which, you know, is another dramatic role.

(01:37:56):
And before this, she was doing, um, after life again with Jervese, playing the Nurshlecan after his,
his dad, who was suffering from dementia. And she's got some fucking great moments in that as well.
Again, you know, she's going through, she's acting out scenarios that a lot of people really
identify with, you know, in her frustration. Like, I think in the book, I think, you know, Anna's,

(01:38:20):
it may be because it's, the book is from the perspective of noodles, so we don't get the Tully and Anna
moments together, you know, because it's all seen through the eyes of noodles. So every time we're
with Tully and Anna, noodles is there as well, you know, but she, she seems to sort of come round
to the, what Tully wants to do, a bit quicker in the book and she's not quite as spaky with noodles.

(01:38:46):
So she has a little bit at certain moments. Um, yeah, but I think the portrayal of Anna, how it's
written in the show and how it's performed by Ashley Jensen is, you know, I would go as far as
see a lot more authentic than how the character develops in the, in the book, you know?
No, I think, yeah, I agree. She's, um, she's fantastic in terms of the, it just gets the right kind of,

(01:39:09):
just right on in terms of someone who doesn't want to see the man that she loves dying and is
upset about him wanting to end his own life, but kind of understands. It's slightly jealous of the
friendship, but can also understand it as well. It's, it's a fucking beautiful performance.
Oh, the thing is as well, is it, is it that she understands it or she just, she accepts it, you know?

(01:39:34):
Yeah, she, I need to accept it because this is what it is, you know, like I said, like I said before,
I think sometimes, I think you know, women have, they can credibly close friendships with
their very best friends and things, but I think sometimes women have a certain generation, as I mentioned
before. I don't think the, because the guys in their lives or they grew up with or whatever,

(01:39:56):
it's difficult for them to believe, but not believe, it's difficult for them to understand
the guys can have close friendships as close as, as women easily. And I think that's what she does
well here, you know, she can, she doesn't understand it because the generation she comes from,
but she does accept it, you know? Speaking of the, the friendship thing, I thought that's one thing

(01:40:16):
they did really well in terms of when they're hanging out as groups of mates, and it's exactly
the stuff that we would do, me, you and our mutual friend, in terms of top three Robert Daniels.
Yeah, yeah, hello, and then doing quizzes on quotes and stuff. And even when Tully is like, they're in the
fucking center where he is about to die. And he's like top three biscuits. And that's exactly the

(01:40:43):
kind of thing we would do. Like it's, it's so well done that is exactly what guys would do. Yeah,
is that? Yeah, I love it. And you can't show us a wagon wheel because technically it's not biscuit.
Why isn't it a biscuit? I don't know, is that a biscuit? Well, what is, I guess it's a confectionery
item. It's more like a cake, it's too much, too much like soft cream and it's just spongy to be a biscuit.

(01:41:03):
A biscuit's got some a bit of bite in it, you know? That's true. What are your top three biscuits?
Karamowafir. Is that a biscuit? Yeah, Karamowafir. I'll allow it, I'll allow it.
Jammy Dodger, but it has to be the Marx and Spencer's jam sandwich creams. Oh,
get you, you fucking change. Seven, yeah, Marx and Spencer. Not really, my mum, for my entire life.

(01:41:27):
She calls those Marx and Spencer's jam sandwich creams, jammy Dodger's, although they're not really
because jammy Dodger's such a biscuit and jam, and they're called jammy Dodgers, but she's always
called them jammy Dodger's team, but they're creaming them. And you weren't really allowed to eat them
in our house, who went up because they were my mums. She might like, have one with a cup of tea.
It's certainly weren't put on the plate for visitors and they were just, they were just all for her.

(01:41:52):
So, yeah, so jammy Dodger, well, jam sandwich cream and then probably like the humble bourbon.
Yeah, I think I'm bourbon of you right top three, definitely. I think a hobnob as well.
I think I digested if we daily spread on it. That's all nice. I said three. Sorry.
You're taking the piss now? Yeah, take me down to my biscuit rabbit hole there.
So the other thing that I think we should talk about, not quite as heavy as the other stuff

(01:42:17):
we've just been talking about, but the soundtrack for this is fucking epic. Yeah, fantastic, absolutely
fantastic. Yeah, if I could get married again and if Paula and I decide to win your votes, I think I'm
definitely going to have fairly mean drops by the cock two twins as they're coming down the aisle.
You could have suggested that you renew your votes just so you can do that. Oh, maybe.

(01:42:39):
But yeah, soundtrack's amazing. I mean, of course, it's like, for a 986, it's all the fucking great 80s
tunes and when they go to that concert and all the music's playing, it's fucking brilliant.
And it's just raw emotion of those five guys just coming off the bus. England's getting broad.
Just fucking brilliant. Like, it's fantastic. Take me back. Yeah, brilliant.

(01:43:04):
And I thought Tony Curdens rendition of a Bolivian by I asked take camera. Pretty fucking good.
Yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, I need to ask you because obviously you're from the
the West coast like Deely. I've never heard the phrase get a large dog up here. I've never

(01:43:25):
ever heard that before. I've never heard that either. No, no, maybe that's any usher. Just want to ask that.
It's any usher. Thank me. Maybe perhaps. Yeah, maybe. Never heard that before.
I mean, my last kind of notes are like the subject matter of this is so challenging, but it never
felt like exploitative in a way. No, no, no, no, no. It was so sensitive. It's such a harsh and sensitive

(01:43:49):
subject matter, but it just felt so well done. And it doesn't so much focus on Tully's illness,
but it more focusses on the relationships, family and friends. And I think the dialogue is so natural
and emotional and very believable. And the biggest point for me was that it was a, it's a really moving

(01:44:10):
commentary on both the nature of long time friendship, but also the idea that when and it hits the
nail in the head here, I think when a person is dying, the people who aren't dying seem to think
they know what's better for that person. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no, you're right. 100%. My dad's,
my dad never wanted a conventional funeral, you know, so obviously you know, you're a mutual friend

(01:44:39):
came to my dad's fumeau. And you know, he wasn't religious my dad. So it was in, you know, I saw a
humanist ceremony in the crematorium, you know, put my dad before that. He was always, you know,
I don't know what a fumeau just, you know, just put my coffin in the corner of the pub. Everybody
have a drink, you know, at some point you can have the undertaker come and take me out, you know,

(01:45:02):
and take me off to the crematorium. But Mark Callaway, what do you mean? The undertaker.
The undertaker. W-W-F. Rest, that's it. Sorry, no, no. It's against some point you can, you know,
if one of you is wants to come with me to the crematorium, then you can, but if you don't want to,
it's fine because I won't know anyway. And I was like, well, what you're describing is a bit of a
sort of gypsy funeral, I think, really? I don't know how good, I don't know how I feel pretty good

(01:45:27):
about a couple of paints sitting in top of your coffin and as all standing around. So really,
you know, for him, you know, the reason that we had what we had for him is because it was important
to my stepmom, you know, you know, so he, yeah, he considered to the crematorium and a humanist
service for her because she felt that people would want to go to something like that and, you know,

(01:45:53):
and remember them that way, you know, which, you know, you were there, it was fine, you know, I,
mean, it wasn't fine, and it was a beautiful ceremony. It was nice, you know, it was a nice ceremony,
you know, it's not really, you know, it's not, it wasn't my dad, it's not what he wanted. He'd
have much preferred as all standing around in the pub, talking about him and sharing stories and things

(01:46:16):
and this sort of, and that's what we did later. That's what we did later. Yeah, you're right, and
this sort of solemn part of it to be done, you know, for as all to be sort of spared that, I think,
is what he wanted, you know, because he, yeah, I'm sure he went enough, you know,
in these times, you know, he best, kind of what he would have spared us, I think. But, you know,
he made concessions from my stepmom and we did what we did, and you're right, it was nice,

(01:46:41):
and it was good later on back in the coachman and call safe, talking about him and having a drink,
and having a bite to eat and everything, so, but, you know, I think when you're leaving people behind,
yeah, I think, you know, the one sort of disconnect I've got with this is that, I guess there's,
a school I thought they say that Tully's a bit selfish about it, you know, he's not really,

(01:47:03):
he's not really considering the people that are going to be affected the most by his passing,
particularly Anna, you know, because she, you know, there's what said before for her, it's very difficult
the fact that she's not there as a day that she has to build up to where he's going to be going,
you know, so I think, and it doesn't take away my understand, I understand Tully and I do respect

(01:47:28):
the bravery that he is shown by doing what he's doing, you know, the decision to
end your life that way, I think is incredibly brave, but the other side of it is it's also very,
very difficult for the people that are going to be left to grieve for you after you're gone,
you know what I mean? So for my dad's case, he made some concessions for someone close to him,

(01:47:51):
you know? Yeah, I agree with you on that actually, it's a, it's a country, is it selfish or is it just,
you know, then today you're the fucker that's dying, so... The other thing is you want to go out and
you're in terms, the other side of it is you're sparing, as he says in this, you know, you're sparing
the people you love the most from the pain of watching you deteriorate and eventually pass away,

(01:48:13):
you know? So, yeah, you know, it's not for us to debate, you know, this debate's been going on for a long
time, ever since these clinics in Switzerland first began, you know, we'll never, well, it's for us to
debate, but we're never going to legislate it, you know, so, but it's an interesting conversation.
Yeah, I mean, I think the one line that stands out to me is when Tully says to, you know, like,

(01:48:36):
I want her to remember me whole, and I think that is kind of a massive sign of a water-trimbery
healthy and, you know, enjoying myself and being good looking, not fucking bald and
weathered and having, yeah, yeah, weathered and having a piss into a tube and not being able to get
a bed and gasping for breath, so... Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, I can understand that, but as we both

(01:49:03):
said, having both lost parents to it, neither of us remember our parents like that. No, it's so... For sure.
I mean, my last memory of my dad is him in the hospital. My dad was active, you know, connect,
a real-conscious, eyed guy, fishing, shooting, sociable, and everything, you know, so, you know,
the last time I saw him, he was in the hospital and all that had been taken away from him, you know,

(01:49:26):
but I choose not to think of him that way, you know, and I have stacks of photographs that I took
from his house, after he passed away, that I'll keep forever of him younger. In some key
photographs of him even from before I was born, when he's long hair and he's purple vest, you know,

(01:49:48):
posing in my granny's back garden as if he's trying to get in the 1972 Vogue annual, you know, you're
right. That is how I think that's how we all deserve to be remembered by the people that we leave
behind. We should be remembered that are best, you know, not at our lowest deb. And, you know, the

(01:50:09):
the line that I'll always take from this, that if I'm being quite honest, I've considered maybe
getting a wee tattoo of is the line from Anthony Cleopatra that Nudol's talks about make death proud to
take us, you know. Beautiful. It's incredibly powerful line, you know, and when you think of that line,

(01:50:30):
and the last scene in the show of Tully playing Kippie Up and finally scoring the goal that he was
never able to score in front of his father is right before it goes for the final administration of
the medicine that's going to ultimately take his life as, you know, incredibly powerful.
The relevant thing you need to all right just just ask anything.

(01:50:59):
Don't let me die like a prick. We'll die like a prick. I mean it. What's your coat?
Anthony Cleopatra won. Make death proud to take us. That's the one.
I thought it was quite brave for them to end it on that because it's been two years since I read the

(01:51:24):
book, but they do the book ends. Watch him die. No, they don't. The book ends the same way.
Is it? No. Yeah, but in the book he doesn't, he doesn't sort of play Kippie Up and then score the goal.
The book, the scene is a lot shorter. The ball is in the garden and the goals are there and it
just talks about Tully kind of bearing down on the ball and hooking it into the net, you know.

(01:51:46):
And I'm kind of glad, you know, I liked because I thought the book might end that way with a kind of
melancholy noodles watching these friends, life slip away, holding his hand and everything. I liked
the fact that it ended that way because I think it's, you know, it's a test, it's kind of true to the
character because the characters are all the way through of Tully is egregious and funny and gallows

(01:52:11):
humor and everything and energetic, apart from the moments when he, you know, when he's, it can
always his breath and bed and, you know, when he hear him being sick and everything else, for the
most part is a vibrant character and for our last sort of moment with them to be scoring the goal
in the garden of the hospital or the clinic, rather, that's going to end these life, I think is brilliant.

(01:52:35):
Yeah, it's a perfect way to end it. Actually, you're right. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, speaking of which.
It's time we shall we put my flash to the Swally Awards? Yeah, we definitely should. Okay,
well, we'll go straight into it. So the first award then is there Bobby the Barman award for the best
pub in it? I mean, the pub they were always in, like it looked fucking great, but then when they

(01:52:56):
had to flash back when Tully was playing with the band, it flashed back to the 80s and she'll like the
old tenants ice colders and airstries and stuff. I was like, I'd love to go to that fucking bar in the 80s.
It's fucking amazing. Yeah, I've got that, I've got, I like that pub and also the pub that Tully does,
the Aztec camera covering as well, but another good pub. It's the same pub, isn't it? Well, I think

(01:53:17):
it's supposed to be the same pub, yeah. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be or not, but I think it's
the same pub they always go to, yeah. But yeah, it looked like a great pub, I'd love to go there. Yeah.
So the cause more award then is a mix one for being everything Scottish. So we've not really
spoken about her because it's quite, she's not really in at that much, but I went for Elaine C Smith,

(01:53:39):
who plays Tully's mum who's suffering from dementia. I thought she was really good. I thought she was
fantastic in that role, but when I was thinking about who my archetypal Scottish actor could be
in the production, I went with her, but did you go for Elaine C. So you did? She's not in that much.
I mean, I had a slash like Elaine C. Smith stroke Steve McCall because purely because Steve McCall

(01:54:02):
with his appearance in this Greg, he is now one point clear of Alex Norton and Peter Mullin.
Yeah. And it's while it's Ali. He is out in the lead now. He's on 14. He's also kind of a friend
of the podcast as well. I mean, I don't know if he, I don't know if he listens, but I know that he

(01:54:22):
and Mrs. McCall do for the ones on Instagram and he did say that he would come on. So maybe we should
get him on. Let's get him on. Let's get him on. Steven, if you listen, give us a shout. We'll get you.
I'll write to him on Instagram and see if he still fancies coming on and having the chat.
But Elaine C. Smith was my first choice because purely, like I think I said this in the podcast for

(01:54:46):
like literally everything she has done in her entire career is Scottish. Yeah. So yeah,
I'll give it to Elaine C. Smith. Yeah. Great. Yeah, she's brilliant. She's so good. And I've been
really enjoying her in the latest series of them to those down as well as things that she's so good.
She's so good. And the next award, and I don't think we've got anybody we can give this one to,

(01:55:08):
but the Jake McQuill and your teaser award. Is there any violence, is there? There's nothing. There's
a wee scuffle like towards the end of episode two between a hog and a tips. Yeah, that's it. Yeah.
We didn't even talk about really calm acting. No, we didn't. We should. We should because he's
definitely a friend of mine. Looking, yeah, and looking great. Like it took me a while to recognise it

(01:55:29):
was calm acting. Yeah, but yeah, fantastic as tips. Yeah. But yeah, the wee scuffle between them.
That was it. Yeah. Next then again, no new detail in this one. So the human Gregor award remains.
And it's envelope, let's say nothing at all. The next awards, I'm relying on you because I didn't write

(01:55:50):
anything down for, but it's the Francis Bagbie, Gwetrootus Sweating award. Oh, fuck. How could you not?
There's like about three or four. Like I've got three. I'd actually like to listen. I'm written down.
So there's the obvious one, which is the very first swear word, which I know we both love the use of

(01:56:11):
this word just in this context when it turns to Danielskas. I'm fucked. Yeah. And love that.
And however, the other two that I loved were we don't need a fucking air purifier. We've got enough
shine. Yeah. Yeah. And by also light when he gives noodles his ticket to the, because noodles lost his

(01:56:35):
ticket. So he gives noodles his ticket to the thing and he goes, I've got to give to the gab,
which is more than you've got you fucking spam. Yeah. Yeah, they're all great.
I don't mind them. I don't know. I mean, I guess I'm tempted to say that I was too carried away by

(01:56:55):
the narrative. Maybe I don't know, but nothing really stuck in my mind. So the next one then is a
mentioned earlier on. I think there's a lot of both over and subtle versions of this is the
archetypal Scottish moment. Well, you mentioned you've got a few. So let's go for it. What have you
got? So I've got the first one that springs to mind is just the adversity to something horrendous.

(01:57:19):
You know, that kind of bravery, you know, we're not called Scotland the brave for nothing. You know,
the bravery of being able to accept something like that in the way that totally accepts what's
happening to him with, you know, that he doesn't waver for a second. There's never a moment where
he wobbles a little bit, you know, his concern. The moment when he, I think we're sort of

(01:57:43):
ed to believe that he thinks himself, I'm going to just drown myself in the sea. And he goes to the
caravan. He goes to the caravan and he, you know, but he starts marching into the, I mean, that must
be fucking Baltic, by the way. But he starts marching into the water and Anna arrives
at like a time and he sort of runs back and he plays it down and his concern is all for her. And that

(01:58:06):
kind of, you know, I just feel that that takes the complete absence of self pity, the complete
presence of concern is only for the people that are going through it with him is, I think there's some,
you know, and other nationalities make this and listen to this and say, oh, no, we don't be
doing the same thing, but maybe you do, but speaking from experience, it feels incredibly Scottish,

(01:58:31):
that just that incredible bravery, nothing, this isn't going to change me. But the one that I went for,
not quite as profound, is going to an English city for the first time and just fucking taken over.
Yeah, well, there's a record shop, that is amazing actually, there's the record shop guys that we just

(01:58:55):
fucking get out. Yeah, what about you? Would you go for, when they see Johnny Marr and the Climb over his
Rolls-Loyce go for it, you're funny. And the line he means it affectionately, it's a Scottish thing,
we insult the people we love. That's brilliant. That's a great one. I love the moment after when they

(01:59:15):
pick up Johnny Marr's the scardy cigarette, oh, he's cows arsed it. It's true, it is a Scottish thing,
we insult the people we love. It's meant as a sign of affection, absolutely, you know? I don't think
any other nationality uses the word 'cunk' as often as we do and in some other different ways.
I'm burping a tea meeting and saying something and I said 'cunt' and I was like, 'I'm sorry,

(01:59:40):
I'm Scottish, I just use that word's as punctuation and everyone laughed.' Like,
right, finally then, the shongko on the award, who wins the production for you. For me, I mean,
all three leads are fantastic in terms of 'Compson, Jensen and Curran', but it's Tony Curran. Yeah,

(02:00:01):
has to be mad that I'm in complete agreement. I just think he's at it's a tour de force of upper
performance. Yeah. And this is like, he's amazing, playing someone that's battling cancer and he is,
like I say, as I said earlier in the episode 'Compson', I take nothing away from him, I first viewing
it's Mark Compson, second viewing he is brilliant. Yeah. But Curran has so much more range,

(02:00:25):
like he's battling an illness and he's laughing and for him to be so down and miserable
than the next scene you see him, I'm on steroids! Yeah, and dancing, right? And, you know, he's in the pub,
like, you're feeling better, I'm on classy drugs, you know? But I don't know, it's going to be a calm down.
And a lot of things, like when he leaves the fucking drugs and, you know, I can't remember

(02:00:49):
the guy's grave. I say, it's a... It's a... Limbo's grave. Yeah, when he leaves the drugs and
Limbo's grave and he does, it's like, no, but someone might pick it up and he said, just leave it.
It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. It's Tony Curran's show. Yeah. And it's so huge, it's a... I don't think
him wrong, it's a two-hander, it's kind of a three-hander in a way with Jensen, but it is a two-hander with

(02:01:13):
Cumpson and Curran, but yeah, Curran wins it for me. I just think he's... But that doesn't. I just think it's
so intuitive. Curran, you know what I mean? Like all the stuff that I went on about earlier about him
coming from the same generation as Tully and understanding what growing up in the 80s was like as a
teenager and a young man, everything else, but, you know, I don't know if he has had people close to him,

(02:01:37):
go through something like what Tully has gone through, but as I say, he's just, he's so intuitive,
you know, he just, he really feel like he understands, you know, and he doesn't take it lightly, as much as
his character overtly is, I don't know, I don't know if that's fair actually that Tully takes it lightly,
but he's, but Curran certainly doesn't take it lightly, you know what I mean? I think he understands

(02:01:59):
that there'll be people watching this, like you and I, who have lost parents, are people that are
incredibly close to them, to cancer and everything, and he kind of wants to do it justice, but, you know,
that fundamental understanding, I think, you know, you know, on the face of it, he might seem to handle
it a little clumsily, but when you really analyse it like we have, there's no clumsiness about it,

(02:02:21):
he completely gets it, you know? And do you think though for him to be into so much the kind of mid 80s,
Manchester scene, which he obviously is in terms of who he's listening to, but it's quite evident
throughout the show that his favourite band, or Dexys, maybe, I guess. Yeah, I think I'll

(02:02:44):
fuck a great time. Yeah, well, Paul, see, when she's about four times, like in terms of Dexys,
her favourite band, and it's made me want to go back and listen to Dexys. Well, that was listening to
the catch, I think I'm going to do it. I was listening to Kevin Rowland on Sturtwiffins, not hardcore
listing his other podcast, but the interviews, I think they're off the beat of the track. And,

(02:03:06):
yeah, I kept it for a very quick, I've heard of Kevin Rowland being interviewed a couple of times,
and he's an interesting guy, you know, a really interesting guy, but yeah, fucking, love a bit of Dexys.
I mean, I think if I met somebody who said they didn't like Dexys Midnight Hunters,
I don't think I could ever really go any further with them. I think they got a lot of flak because

(02:03:27):
of come on Irene, because it is like the ultimate wedding song, but it is a fucking great song.
It's a banger. It is an absolute banger. Absolutely banger, but it is like the ultimate wedding song.
However, they have so many other great tracks. Yeah, she will, like Dexys are fucking great,
Jackie Wilson. Oh, she knows. Jackie Wilson says, I've just bought a tropical fish tank.

(02:03:50):
I'm still wondering, because there's another myth that that was actually done on purpose.
Well, maybe they're possibly put the Jackie Wilson picture there, but it's, well, fair. Anyway,
yeah. So that was Mayflies, and highly recommend it. If you haven't seen it, watch it,
bring tissues. Yeah, not for that reason, but I mean, I've had, it's incredible. I've had a bit of a

(02:04:13):
fucking emotional week because obviously I've been preparing for the podcast. I also watched,
it's a sin, the Russell T Davies channel for drama, which I absolutely loved was
profoundly moved by. And then if that wasn't enough, I attended via video, I think a funeral of

(02:04:33):
somebody yesterday who passed away far too young. And I was thinking, I was a bit pissed last night
after that, because I'm a bit, I'm a bit, I'm being quite honest. I'm a bit pissed now because,
I couldn't, I couldn't need the drink to get through this. I'm actually, I'm actually drinking from a
box of wine here. Jesus Christ, I could see the box of wine that Greg was presented. Fucking hell.

(02:04:56):
You are the son of the Jake. I know, but I was thinking, I was thinking last night, you know, because
the funeral of my friend who passed away, it was all fume was our, very sad, but it was all,
you know, he had young sons and everything else. So, yeah, it was tough. And I was thinking,
do you know what? I'm going to ask Nicky, how he feels about this. Rather than a funeral, I think I

(02:05:20):
would like my body to be packed into a rocket and fired, but not in space just above wherever I live.
So it blows up in bits of me, can I rain down on my neighbours and things? Because I like the,
I like the thought of my last physical act to be one that really annoys people that I don't like.

(02:05:40):
You know what I mean? Yep, I get for doing that. No, I want my body to be packed with explosives and
fired into eyebrows, you know, that works just as well, I think. Anyway, although the
old front don't exist anymore, I can't do that. But the fans, the fans still exist.

(02:06:03):
Yeah, fannings. Okay, right. So, Mayflies was my choice, Greg. So, why do you tell us what we're
going to be talking about on the next episode of The Cultures, Wally? So, I've gone for the 2026
movie, Your Bar Sales Ava, and started it.

(02:06:27):
Cal, fucking waste. No, in all seriousness, I've gone, you know, I've gone for the 2006
historical drama directed by producer of Transporting, Kevin McDonald's, and starring
Tainey Tainey James McAvoy for his Whitaker on his Swally debut, The Vast King of Scotland.

(02:06:53):
Oh, that famous Scottish film, said, and you fucking, you can't. At some point, we're going to,
at some point, we're going to run out a Scottish star, right? So, you know, there's a, there's a very,
very strong case for the day of the white worm, not tober, wish you.
Last guy, it's called in fucking hell. I think I watched it when I first came out. I haven't seen

(02:07:15):
it since. Me neither. Wow. Yeah, I'm kind of looking forward to revisiting that, actually.
As am I. But a long time. Wow. Last King of Scotland. I knew I, I think I mentioned that before
in the podcast, was it, does it qualify? I think you said, well, we've done fucking Highland.
So yeah, I think it qualified, but it does. It's got Scotland in title. It starts in Scotland.

(02:07:39):
It's got James McAvoy, and it, I mean, is obsessed with Scotland. I think there's a scene
where it's a kill. There is. And it plays backpipes or something. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. So, right. Last King of Scotland on the next episode of the Swally. Yeah. Absolutely.
Wonderful. Okay. Right. Well, thank you very much everyone for listening. I hope you enjoyed
the show. You can get in touch with us with any news item she'd like us to cover or any films

(02:08:01):
you'd like us to cover or TV shows or if you want to get in touch with us about Peter Capoli's
long fingers. Then you can. And on CultureSwally@gmail.com. Yeah. And we've also, we've also got a website.
You can find us at coachwawally.com. I might put a picture up of Peter Capoli's elegant hands
for the ladies, but there's also links to other episodes. There's a three or four part vlog about

(02:08:29):
Sean Connery. We've got an article about Scottish television in the past and Scottish horror. So
come over and check us out. And you can follow us on Instagram at CultureSwallyPod or on x for them
on Twitter @swallyPod. Right then Greg. Yeah. So, it's a little bit of a lie down after that one.
Yeah, I think so. It was a long one and an emotional one. Yeah. But I'm not afraid to admit I cried

(02:08:54):
about three times during the episode. Yeah. But you know, if you are affected by any of the issues
that come up in Mayflies, there are tons of charities, Cancer Research, Macmillan, etc.
People that are there to talk to, that can handle things a lot better than perhaps we have. But
we've all been through it and you're not alone. Yeah, definitely. I fully agree with you on that, Greg.

(02:09:19):
Yeah. Okay. Right. I guess there's no need for a funny outro now. We've just had that depressing
kind of episode. So I guess we'll just say until next time. Until next time.
I can't believe Anna's going next to it. It's against everything she believes in.
She doesn't know. Oh, yeah. Oh, fuck sake. I know. At all.

(02:09:44):
So, legal, you could get arrested.
Jimmy, he's asking you to help him kill himself.
Imagine how you feel after when it's over. You'd have to live with it.
Knowing you were the one that took him there. She'll never forgive you either of you.

(02:10:08):
You can't. You'll break her home. I'd ask her to break her in that way.
He's my friend.
But Anna's going to be his wife once that day.
Would he do it for you?

(02:10:31):
What?
With her hesitation.
[Music]

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Episode 95 - Mayflies (2022)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 95 - Mayflies (2022)