March 15, 2024 • 44 mins
Welcome to another exciting episode of the Fired Up Podcast. This episode features an inspiring entrepreneur and a striking insight into the world of relentless pursuit, leadership, and entrepreneurship. Our Guest, Matthew Pollard, displayed his mindset and strategies that blazed a trail in the business world.
Matthew's story showcases how introversion is not a setback but rather an untapped path to success. Despite his challenges, Matthew's journey aligns with the mantra that everything is a learnable skill. He shared valuable insights for entrepreneurs experiencing similar growth pains.
In a society praising extroversion, Matthew challenges this norm by finding strengths in introverts and tools for powerful engagement and influence. He offers strategies to manage personal energy and highlights the importance of 'what if' thinking that leads to transformative systems and peak performance.
The episode dives into how leadership vulnerability influences team dynamics. Matthew further shares his personal journey of finding passion and mission in business, emphasizing the transformative experience of shifting focus from self to service.
Matthew also shared his concept of a 'Unified Message' to help professionals capitalize their unique talents and skills. He detailed how AI makes his team more efficient and teased about his upcoming book that aims to empower introverts in the field of sales and marketing.
This thought-provoking episode with Matthew Pollard is an invaluable resource for introverts, highlighting how they can leverage their unique skills to generate meaningful connections and succeed in business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
In 2007, I remember a relentless push to prove everyone wrong.
And I guess if anyone's in that situation, they should know that that relentless
pursuit, it gets you nowhere.
So from a leadership perspective, it's the same thing. It's never about me,
but it's always about the mission.
Not about them, not about me,
(00:23):
but about the mission. People these days can get paid to work anywhere.
They want to feel like they're part of something.
Welcome back to the Fired Up Podcast. I'm your host, Brad Reba.
We have got another exciting episode with an inspiring entrepreneur,
and I'm excited to have him on the show today.
(00:43):
In fact, I think my next guest doesn't really require an introduction,
but he deserves it. So I'm going to give it to him.
So let's talk about, first of all, you're everything that epitomizes 10X and
massive action. You're the rapid growth guy, right?
So, I mean, first of all, the book, The Introvert's Edge to Networking,
(01:04):
this was really something insightful to me, but I know you've received a lot of accolades.
Neil Patel said it was a game changer, the real deal, according to Forbes.
And you've got five multimillion-dollar success stories of your your own,
helped 3,500 plus business owners that were struggling to grow their business,
(01:25):
been recognized by, I mean, Fortune, Inc., a CEO magazine.
I mean, really the list goes on and on.
And I'm just excited that I got a chance to meet you and hear your story because
it inspired me. I thought it would inspire the audience as well.
So I'm excited to welcome Matthew Pollard to the Fired Up podcast.
Well, I'm ecstatic to be here. I appreciate you having me on.
(01:47):
And as you know, every chance I get to inspire other introverts like me to realize
that, you know, we're not second-class citizens. Our path to success is just different.
It's so important to me. So I appreciate you allowing me to do that on your
forum, in front of your audience.
Yeah, great. And you're a very accomplished podcast host, author, speaker on your own.
So a lot of things that, you know, you've become and your persona is very different
(02:10):
than what you told me you started from.
So I thought it'd be great just to kind of start there and really understand
the, Why did you get into the coaching business and really take that entrepreneurial
journey? Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, those are two questions, really. I mean, the...
Origin story is I shouldn't be the one coaching, I guess is the answer.
(02:31):
I mean, for me, when I think about my personal journey, and I think this is
actually a really important point to make.
So many people project extroversion and gift of the gab and natural ability
on anyone that succeeded.
And I think that's a lot to do with, and it's funny, when I ask people if they're
introverted or extroverted, they'll say, oh, I was introverted,
but don't worry, I'm extroverted now. Like it's something I have to get over.
(02:52):
People even use the words like, oh, I'm a recovering introvert.
Like there was something, like it was a condition that they've,
and there's nothing wrong with being introverted.
Like you saw me speak yesterday and, you know, I've, I felt like everybody engaged
with me. At least I, I hope that they did. And, but I was just tired afterwards.
Like that was the difference. Like I, I went straight from that,
by the way, to another meeting, to another meeting. It was only when I got back
to the hotel room, I felt like I'd been skydiving.
(03:15):
I was just, I was just exhausted. But you know, my origin story really is,
you know, I had a reading speed of a sixth grader in late high school.
I was super introverted. And I really, I mean, I got diagnosed with this thing
called Erlen syndrome, which, you know, luckily enough, basically means I put
on a pair of funny colored lenses, which didn't exactly help with the confidence,
but I can miraculously, you know, learn to read.
(03:35):
Now I couldn't read like everybody else. I could start the process of learning.
So for the last two years of high school, I hustled like crazy just to,
to get good enough grades.
I got into the top 20% of my state, but my, my family realized,
and I knew I was exhausted.
Like I didn't know what I wanted to do and I knew I wouldn't stick it out.
So we all agreed I was going to take a year off to find myself.
And so I took a job at a real estate agency. And I mean, you're a tennis coach.
(03:57):
I mean, I know you, you coach a lot of real estate agents and most people would
expect me to say right now, I was the guy out selling.
I wasn't, I was the guy in the back office doing data entry.
Look at my face. Like, don't speak to me. I'm here to find myself. Right, right, right.
Well, three weeks into that job, I lost it because they shut down the office.
So here I am, and this is Australia at Christmas time. So that's summer.
(04:17):
So for those people, like few American audience, yeah, it ain't snowing.
It's the best time of our year.
So people take, you know, from the 20th of December to the 15th or 20th of January off.
No one's hiring. And so the only jobs I could get were these things in the paper
called commission only sales roles.
And I mean, you saw me put up that photo of me at my sister's wedding with the terrible acne. near.
(04:39):
No way was I happy with that, right? But it was the only job I could get.
My dad broke his back 80 hours a week supporting the family.
I had to apply to them. Well, I applied to all three jobs that were in the paper.
That was the only three jobs hiring.
I got three job interviews. Then I got three job offers. And I'm like,
wow, maybe they see something. I don't see myself.
Well, I was wrong. I went in, I took a job selling business to business telecommunications.
(05:00):
And I went in with this little bit of quiet confidence because all three people hired me.
Well, my trainer put that to bed real quick. He's like, Matt,
we just, we hire everyone. We've got this saying, we just throw mud up against
the wall. We see what sticks.
Confidence just, yeah, right. Yeah, so it wasn't exactly that.
I mean, he could have lied to me. It would have made it feel a little bit better,
right? Yeah, yeah, right, right.
But yeah, I get thrown on this road called Sydney Road in Melbourne,
Australia, five days later after, just five days product training.
(05:21):
I mean, no sales training. I don't understand why.
I think it's because people don't, like, the rules are you have to give them
the product training and then they're like, we'll just see how you get, like, why invest in you?
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I'd like to think that's changed now,
but it really hasn't in a lot of commission only sales roles, unfortunately.
But I mean, there I was, I had no idea what to say.
I walked into the first door and people wonder why I say I luckily was politely told to leave.
(05:45):
But shortly after I was sworn at, then I was told to get a real job,
which was always my favorite. Oh, I love that. It was the only job I could get. Sure, sure.
So here I am and door after door that just kept happening.
And I got to my 93rd door and I made my first sale. And I mean,
I was ecstatic. I made like $70.
And for me that was a lot of money back then but the,
I then had this realization, I've got to do this again tomorrow and the next
(06:06):
day and the next. And I'm not okay with this. I just, the whole idea was daunting.
But I think that one of the things that kind of just people do is they're like,
well, I just have to rely on lady luck or, you know, that's just the way it
is. You know, I either have the gift or I don't.
And I just wasn't willing to accept that. So I decided to take responsibility
really and say, well, what if there was another way?
And for that, I had to realize that, well, the assumption, the guess that I
(06:29):
made at that time was that sales had to be a system.
And I went to work just kind of learning the system and
you know I mean I had a reading speed of a sixth grader I'm not exactly picking
up a you know Brian Tracy or his
exeggable grant card I wasn't available at that time but you know when I got
to YouTube I typed in the word sales system and all these videos came up and
you know it blows me away that a lot of people don't go to YouTube for more
(06:51):
sure why not it's yeah it's there it's free and exactly a lot of information
well that's how I taught myself like I'd spend eight hours out in the field
applying what I learned than I before.
I would spend eight hours practicing the next day. You know,
as soon as I finished my eight hours in the field, like either working on what
I, the step that I was working on or the next one.
And then I spent 16 hours practicing every weekend. And I know by the way,
for the audience that's listening, this does not sound fun. I get it.
(07:13):
And there are smarter ways these days, but that's all I could learn how to do.
And back then there wasn't anywhere near as much it's available today,
but I got better real quick.
Like soon it was like 71 doors, then 43 doors, then 18, Slowly getting better and better, right.
Yeah, I got it down to making a sale every three doors.
And, I mean, what was interesting was six weeks in.
(07:34):
My manager pulls me aside. He had the same face that my real estate boss had
when I was about to lose my job. And I'm like, I've done something wrong.
Like I was the quiet guy that handed my paperwork downstairs.
All the boisterous salespeople talking about, you know, how they closed that
deal, locked it in. And, you know, they, you know, the market's getting harder.
I wasn't really involved. So I thought that I was doing something wrong because
I wasn't really accepted by the community upstairs.
(07:56):
Right, right, right. And he's like, we just got the national sales figures,
which, you know, back then used to come out once a month. and kind of blown
away by this, but you're the number one salesperson in the company,
which just so happened to be the largest sales and marketing company in the
Southern Hemisphere. I mean, the whole thing took six weeks.
So, I mean, I say to people all the time, like, yes, it was a lot of work.
And I don't think people have to do that amount of work now because there's
so much out there to help.
(08:18):
But the truth is I've carried that success my whole life. And yet most people,
even if they did it over six months or even a year, my goodness.
And I went from terrified to
sell to really, I mean, being the best in the business of that business.
So the funny thing was, and this always makes me laugh, so he told me I was the best in the company.
And he's like, so you can manage. I don't know why people think that.
(08:41):
Like, I had no idea. Very different skills. He's like, no worries,
just mud up against the wall. We'll be a team, see what sticks.
Everybody quit, all of them, in 24 hours. But I went back to YouTube,
learned to manage, got pretty good at it, got promoted about seven times in
the space of 12 months, and then started my own business.
And fast forward just shy of a decade, I was responsible for five multi-million
dollar success stories. Fantastic.
But yeah, I mean, I was definitely not the person that would,
(09:03):
I mean, I actually think if I hadn't lost my job at that real estate agency,
I probably would still be happily doing some form of administrative role.
Sure, sure. And for those people that are in administrative roles,
you know, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to be an administrator role or be a writer or whatever.
Or be a coder. Like there are a lot of people that just want those quieter jobs
or those creative roles. Sure. Sure. I couldn't imagine not doing what I do today.
(09:26):
It was not, I'm not suggesting that this is the path for everyone,
small business ownership, sales, what, or leadership, public speaking.
What I'm saying is that I hid away from these things because I didn't know they were possible.
And I believe that everybody needs to know that they're possible for them and
they can choose whether they or not they want them.
Yeah. There's skills that you can learn, right? It's not something you're born into.
And like you were talking about introverts versus extroverts.
(09:47):
Yeah. I think that, you know, it's important to understand that it just takes
work and it takes persistence.
And you had to persist through a number of challenges, the biggest being not
knowing what you didn't know at that time.
So now, like you said, fast forward, you've raised multi-million dollar businesses
into the, you know, success that you have.
(10:10):
And you've also helped other business owners with their own struggles.
Struggles, but as you grow and we got introduced because of,
of EO entrepreneurs organization.
And one of the criteria is, is that you do have a thriving business,
right? A million dollars or more in revenue.
And so you realize that as businesses grow, you just inherit bigger problems.
(10:30):
And, you know, people have this, this, this nomer that there's some magic to
the success and then everything's fine.
And you're just, your business just runs on autopilot. But the truth is you
just different problems.
So talk about the challenges as your business has grown that you've run into
and how you've overcome that.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really important if we look at the,
(10:51):
I guess, the important learnings in my beginning story.
I mean, yeah, sure. Everything's a learnable skill. That's absolutely a great learning.
And I think whether you apply that to sales, leadership, public speaking,
any of those so-called extroverted arenas, but gosh, I mean,
extroverts have their own burdens to bear, right?
Some might say they're not the best listeners. Some might say they're not the
most empathetic. Those are all learnable skills also.
(11:11):
And I guess the difference is that extroverts know they can learn those skills.
And if they work for a global organization, the HR team will send them to learn those skills.
But everyone says, oh, poor Johnny, he's an introvert. He can't learn how to
sell or can't learn to network.
I think that, and by the way, for people listening, I mean, what I just said
makes it easy for people to say, that's it. I'll blame the corporations.
(11:32):
I'll blame the way the world is. I don't think that's the answer.
I think the answer is that for me, the world never worked for me.
And instead of blaming it and, you know, you saw me talk about storytelling
and I talk about the science of storytelling and how it short circuits the logical
mind, you speak to the emotional mind.
Well, if you're telling yourself these really theatrical masterpiece stories
about why it's harder for you, then you're not looking for solutions.
(11:55):
So for me, I always started from a place of how do I take responsibility for this problem?
I understand it may not be my fault, but how does that help me?
How does that serve me? So I would really say, well.
How can I take responsibility for this? How can I assume responsibility?
And then I live in what if thinking, right?
So I just spoke in Detroit and that, you know, obviously the home of Henry Ford,
(12:17):
but he has this wonderful saying, if I think I can, or if I think I can't, I'm right.
And so for me, I lived in this, what if thinking of what if there was another
way, what if there was another way, as opposed to explaining why it's harder
or why it's probably not possible.
What if, what if, and that's how I discovered the sales system.
And, you know, quite easily sales may not have been a system.
Funnily enough, when I typed sales system into to YouTube, I realized I wasn't
(12:39):
the first person that had that idea. Right.
But there's the, I mean, you know, everyone's probably heard of the book,
The Secret. Like, okay, cool.
Think of it. Believe it. Sure. Do the work. And I think that was the biggest
thing for me. It was, I took responsibility.
I lived in what if, and I was willing to do the work. And I think that what
I've learned, I, it's really interesting.
(13:02):
I find that you're a hundred percent right about businesses just just getting bigger problems.
And I actually think that the problems that you have as you're growing a bigger
business, if you haven't had burdens when you start, you're actually really
not well-equipped to handle them because you're not willing to,
you don't emotionally regulate.
Well, you don't accept the problem as your own, because what do you mean the
(13:25):
world's not working the way it's always supposed to for me?
And then you don't live in what if, because the problem is is that you're always
naturally having, it's like the Michael Jordan story, right?
Like the concept, like he wasn't naturally brilliant at basketball,
but he just did the work and he got better.
I actually think the people that have natural abilities and tend to...
(13:46):
Be, I mean, especially in sales, right? The top 10% of all sales performers
have a planned presentation. That's just the statistics.
The bottom 80% just say whatever comes out of their mouth, right?
Well, what do you expect the introverts sit at that? Right at the bottom.
Extroverts, right at the top of the 80%. But in the top 10% echelon,
a lot of introverts in that space.
And funnily enough, on the global gurus list of top 30 sales professionals,
(14:07):
which I'm honored to be on, and I thought I was the only introvert.
Turns out most of them are introverted. Most of them, okay.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's, the thing is, I was the first one to outwardly put the
word introvert, which I thought I was going to get slammed for on my book and
say introverts actually have the edge when it comes to sales.
But I think that in all things in business, I think it takes the humbleness
of saying, I'm not expected to have the answer.
(14:30):
I'm expected to go find it. And I think that's always the rule set that I've had.
And my team, I'm very open about my Achilles heels.
I'm very open about the fact that if you call me after I've spoken at an event
and after I've had a whole series of meetings at my hotel room,
I behave less like your boss and more like a tantrum, you five-year-old.
So please just understand that if it's urgent, you can call me, but ignore that.
(14:55):
And I've done my best to emotionally regulate and I'll apologize while I know
that I'm not in the best place to answer the question.
And a lot of times people will call me and I'll text them and I'll say,
look, this is my downtime.
Is this urgent just to remind them. And I've learned those sorts of things,
but I take responsibility for the fact that I know I'm not in the best place.
And because of that, it's not like I didn't love everything I just did.
I love speaking. I love helping people.
(15:17):
But I also know that there are times where I need to be more in control of myself
and more mindful of the fact that I'm not in my best way to serve others.
And because of that, I remove myself and I'll have downtime and I'll I'll sit
there and watch Netflix in the dark and people are like, but that's a waste
of time. It's three o'clock in the afternoon.
I'm like, so what? Right. If I need to charge up.
(15:40):
It's not, no one sets the times and schedules. Like don't believe any rules.
What you need to do is just say, how can I be my best self?
How can I take responsibility for anything where I'm not my best self?
And then can I learn systems and strategies?
Because I found that after speaking at an event, I couldn't do meetings afterwards
because I was not a hundred percent emotionally centered.
(16:01):
But then I learned how to, how to manage my energy on stage. So I was less anxious.
And a lot of that is telling stories and learning stagecraft.
So you're less uncomfortable and not trying to lean into becoming an extrovert
because that's not a path to success for us introverts.
But then also understanding that there are lines because we have our battery.
(16:22):
You know, an extrovert just gets more and more charged. But try and get him
to sit in a room and do work on a computer.
Right, right. Not happening. Again, we all have our burdens.
We just have to learn how to compensate for those. And also be honest with your team.
Like if we have this force, nothing's ever wrong. I'm invincible.
Yeah. Well, you're not going to succeed. You might get to a million.
You're not going to get million plus right right and nobody's buying that
100 of the time right and if anything it sort of puts
(16:45):
the you know a an uncomfortable pressure back
on the other people like why is this person always put
together 100 knows where they're going i don't know if i always do and you know
maybe i'm not enough in this in this job and i think that it's inspiring to
see the human side of of a leader and the fact that you're vulnerable enough
(17:05):
to and and you understand understand that that's a part of who you are and you
can express that to people.
Actually, I think it makes you a stronger leader than if you were to try to
hide that or, or pretend that it's not there because.
You point out that the downtime is important. It's actually part of your system, it sounds like, right?
The difference between wasting time watching Netflix and using it as a source
(17:27):
of recharge is that it was part of your plan.
You knew that that was downtime so that you could be your best self on stage
in front of the people that needed you to be 100% on.
So you were doing it for a reason. It wasn't just mindless. Yeah,
you're 100% right on that.
I mean, you saw me speak from stage, so you could probably speak to it.
But I'm like a shot of adrenaline, I think. Absolutely. I am a supercharger.
(17:50):
I watched you come on. I'm like, how many Red Bulls does this guy have before
he got on stage? I mean, it's amazing.
And like you had said, we didn't know the backstory at the time that your flight had been delayed.
You had all this cross-international travel.
Is jet lag even a thing to you? I don't think it is because it's like.
Yes, it is. So things do affect me. This is the thing. I'm not bulletproof.
(18:12):
No, I get it. I'm just passionate.
Yeah. And that's the thing. When you do something, and this is one of the things
I say all the time. You can create a rapid growth business out of anything these
days, but there's nothing worse than a rapid growth business with customers
you don't like and a business you can't stand.
And especially when I speak at small business groups, gosh, I love it.
And it is a huge passion thing for me.
So yeah, I mean, my flight was delayed three and a half hours.
I got into the hotel room.
(18:32):
I think I got to sleep at like one and then I had to be there super early.
So it was, I was exhausted. Sure.
Until, firstly, introvert, this is actually a real advantage.
I still get nervous before I speak on stage. So I do get this adrenaline rush.
That you extroverts don't get like I do, right?
When you're tired, you're tired. For me, I'm like, oh, I'm scared, excited.
Yeah, okay. But then once I get on stage and I start sharing my story,
(18:54):
I love doing it. So I get this huge amount of passion energy.
And because of that, I can go all day on that.
But that means that I also need to understand that I am going to hit a wall.
So yes, I have to plan for it. But what I meant by being that supercharger,
I know I can do that purely on passion.
And I could do it without a night's sleep and still be fine.
(19:15):
But if you don't plan for the come down. Yeah.
And if you said in really important meeting after, like for me,
I know I can do back-to-back meetings, but if you give me an hour break and
then ask me to do a meeting, not going to happen.
Okay. Right. So I have to stay. Stay in that energy. Yeah.
Because, and I know that you need to give me two hours.
After doing, you know, if it's one hour, not so much, maybe an hour,
(19:36):
but if I do a half day, like you saw me do, right.
I need two hours to emotionally recharge.
And I'm not saying my energy, like emotionally recharge is the right word,
but then after that I'm back and I'm rock solid. Right.
And I know that, you know, for me, I need to watch a silly show.
Funnily enough, I need to watch a show I've watched often because I don't want
to tolerate not enjoying it.
Right. So I need to watch something like, you know, there's TV shows like Scrubs
(19:59):
or Boston Legal. and I know when the first 10 seconds happens,
what it is, what's going to happen.
And I need that predictability of, I know what's going to happen.
It's less mental energy, right? Exactly. And you know, I know what happens in
the show, but like for me, it's not about the show.
Half the time, I don't even remember watching the show. It's just about having
that meditative almost state.
But what I've, what I've learned is I can be that supercharger of energy and that's not fake.
(20:23):
Like a lot of extroverts will say, Oh, do these big gestures.
That's not me. I'm just passionate and you can tell.
And I could, I mean, I joke about the, you know, Red Bull, but I could tell
it was actually not from any other source, but your own.
And the other thing that it seemed like, which was interesting because you think
introverts get their energy by that alone time, but you did connect genuinely with everybody.
(20:49):
And you talk about in your book, the types of people that we,
you know, we have givers, takers, and balance sheet makers, right?
I really saw you as a giver in that instance, even though you were doing a lot
of the talking, you were giving of yourself and you really weren't looking for,
you know, a return based on that audience. It was just, how can I share?
How can I help this group learn from the stories that you had and the stories
(21:14):
of people that you've helped?
I mean, talk about that when you build a team, because it seems like the system
certainly helped you overcome some of these challenges, but also the team.
How do you know that you've got the right people partnered with you when you
look at the way that, you know, different people are motivated and how you can align?
Yeah, absolutely. When you talk about...
The, the energy I talk about, I actually have a presentation called channel
(21:36):
you superpower, and it's all about connecting with passion.
And a lot of people are like, Oh, well, I'm not really passionate about what
I do. It's just practical. I make great. That's never true.
Right. Because people could have done anything. They chose this,
but usually it's because they're
going too broad or they're not servicing their best type of clients.
And they bled into, I just need to do what's practical rather than I need to
do what I'm passionate about, which always ends up making you more money because
(21:56):
you have the extra access to that energy source.
Right. Right. And so the first thing that I, I mean, I, I need to make sure
people are aligned with my passion and mission. That's like the number one criteria.
Like I can teach anything. I can't get people to be excited about what I'm excited about.
And so for me, the passion, the mission, like organizations have like mission
(22:16):
statements and I think they're dry and boring.
So I always suggest like for, especially, I mean, when you're talking about
a business that's under a hundred million, there's still a strong leader and
it's in a lot of ways, is a personal brand driving an organization forward.
And whether or not it's a company brand with a visionary leader that's driving
a whole bunch of people internally, or whether it's a face of the brand driving
(22:39):
it, it doesn't matter, right?
When you're talking about your internal team, there's a face to that brand.
And so the thing that I always, what I learned, like when I speak to on stage,
when I'm leading a team, it's never about me, right?
I mean, it's my number one rule of networking, which is weird because everyone's
like, oh, I got to talk about myself.
No, you don't. right? When you're networking, you don't want to talk about yourself.
(22:59):
When you're leading, it's not about you. When you're speaking from stage, it's not about you.
And I find that when you get up on stage and make it all about you,
it's exhausting because it's anxiety riddled.
But if you just get on stage and you are honestly trying to help everybody in
the audience, it actually gives you energy because you feel like you're at service
(23:20):
and the anxiety dissipates.
You know, I interviewed Ryan Dice, who founded the Traffic and Conversion Summit
and, you know, huge event.
And he said, like, every time I was worried about how people perceive me,
I could barely get on stage.
But then, you know, when I started to think about the fact that these people
needed to hear what I had to say, and I made it all about them,
he said, I never got scared.
(23:42):
And I mean, you think about like, he's, I mean, when I interviewed him on the
Introverts Edge podcast, he's so introverted that he won't get on stage unless
there's a back entrance. He doesn't want to walk off the stage.
Oh, really? Okay. He's just scared of being trampled. It's a weird thing,
but it just is what it is. So from a leadership perspective, it's the same thing.
It's never about me, but it's always about the mission.
Not about them, not about me, but about the mission. Now, I need to be focused
(24:04):
on helping them get past whatever they're struggling with, but it's all about
helping and serving the mission.
So one of the things that I always recommend people do, and.
I talk about this from a networking perspective or a sales perspective,
but it applies to an organization globally.
And I say this is the secret document you hand to your team.
It's not something you publicly make available like a mission statement perhaps you put on the wall.
(24:26):
But basically what I suggest from a mantra perspective is you say,
here's my unified message. And that's obviously something that's unique IP.
We can talk about it if you like. But then I say, here is the niche that I serve.
Now, a niche can be an industry. It can be an outcome, a problem that people have.
And there's lots of variance to that. But then you say, here is why it's congruent
with me. You can talk about your unique skills, your unique upbringing, your unique talents.
(24:50):
And as a larger organization, you talk about your unique core competencies.
But then what I get people to suggest is write down what you love to see.
The people that you work with in that niche, what's the desired end state?
And then what do you hate to see? And what does it look like for them in their
life if they don't get to work with you? Okay.
And then I go to the next piece, which is, you know, why is your ideal client
(25:12):
going to rally to your cause? And I get them to write down –.
And this, in a lot of ways, I call this the empathetic introvert,
right? Because introverts have empathy.
For extroverts, a lot of times they have to interview their clients to understand it a little bit more.
But I talk about what's going on in the daily life of your client and,
you know, what's keeping them up at night?
What's bouncing them out of bed in the morning? What are they mentally struggling
with? All of the things that are going on and people are like,
(25:35):
oh, business, business, business.
And I'm like, no, like they're taking this stuff home. How is it affecting their
relationship with their wife and their kids? How is, you know,
did they miss their kid's dance recital because so-and-so didn't show up on
Friday or whatever, and maybe their daughter's not speaking to them, right?
So how, like, that's what I'm really looking at.
And then the last question is, what makes you the only logical choice for your ideal demographic?
(25:58):
And what's interesting is people write a whole bunch of vanilla rubbish the
first time they write it. And I'm like, this could apply to any business.
Sure, sure. And it could apply to anyone.
Get really specific on your specific niche niche and get really specific on
what's going on in their unique life?
And the answer is a lot of times they don't know. And I'm like,
well, that's why you're not selling to them.
And that's why you struggle to get people emboldened to work in your team.
(26:19):
And that's why you've got terrible
retention because people these days can get paid to work anywhere.
They want to feel like they're part of something. And when they feel like they're
part of something, they're willing to accept perhaps a needy extra needy introvert,
you know, after a big speaking event, because they're like, okay,
he did something that's important to our mission.
We're going to let him pause. We'll We'll handle this for him until he's ready
(26:39):
to come back. Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that's important because they connect better with the mission,
but they also connect better to you because they know the whole person.
And if you give them that insight, then they kind of understand where you're coming from.
Whereas if you're trying to just be this persona, it's hard to connect with that.
If the mission is sort of, you're trying to be all things to all people,
(27:01):
which we talked about it, you can't, right?
Then you're not anything for anybody. And so that is a great insight to building
a team and getting people to rally around you and your mission.
So as you've grown and built successful teams, successful businesses and helped
others, I'm sure there's things along the way that.
If you had them to do again, maybe it was a misstep that you could have done
(27:23):
differently. You're better informed now, right?
You're more, is there anything that sticks out that that's, that's a lesson
learned that if you had it to do again, you'd do it differently? Oh, absolutely.
So my first business was a telecommunications company. I mean,
I'd sold telecommunications, of course, I moved into communications.
It was all I knew, but I still had this, everyone sees me as the slow kid.
I've got something to prove mentality.
(27:45):
And I would say, I safely could say I wasted three years of my life on that
business. I mean, I made a ton of money, don't get me wrong.
It was that business at that time, oh my gosh, I lucked out, I would say.
But also I didn't because I wasn't doing something that was fulfilling for me, right?
I've always found that the closer I get to helping the individual, great.
I mean, call rates, don't get me wrong. I convinced myself, deluded myself that
(28:08):
a dollar saved is $10 made, right? Whatever.
Truthfully, if somebody told me about call rates and sat me down,
like I won't do my my own telecommunications plan now, just because I loathe telecommunications.
But the thing is that I built that business purely to prove to everybody that
I was worthy, I think is the right thing.
(28:31):
And I, in 2007, I won the Melbourne Young Achiever Award, which I mean,
it's a pretty significant award.
And I remember like, it should have been the...
The paramount, like capstone thing that kind of said, you know,
I mean, I had multiple cars in the driveway.
I had, I was living at a place that is phenomenal.
I had like 270 degree views in Melbourne city.
Like I, you know, I just had a great lifestyle. I spent money on clothes that
(28:54):
I didn't need. Like just, you know, doing the, I've for the first time got money. Yeah. Right.
And by the way, I don't do any of those things now.
Like none of those things are important, but I remember it going home,
sitting on not my balcony, but kind of like my view of the city, I was miserable.
I just, I realized that I'd done everything for everyone else.
(29:15):
And yes, I was making a lot of money, but money's, I mean, Jim Carrey kind of talks about this.
I wish everyone had the opportunity to be rich, to realize how insignificant it actually is.
And it's the same as like the people that drop their, their business to go and
start an entrepreneurial venture because that's the dream.
No, it's not. The dream is to run a business that revolves around you,
your family and your life, not not the other way around, where you're doing
(29:37):
something you're passionate about.
Any business is not the answer because usually it's the wrong business.
And usually because you're not passionate about it, you don't make the money
that you deserve because you're not willing to do, like, you don't put as much
energy into it as somebody that's passionate.
So you don't get paid well. And you also market yourself terribly.
So, and don't get me wrong, there's a lot of passionate people that market themselves
terribly too, but at least they've got the energy once it's working. Right, right.
(30:00):
But the thing is that in 2007, I remember saying, enough now.
Right. I've done enough to prove to other people. And truthfully,
I shouldn't have done it in the first place.
Now I'm just going to do what fills me. And I know that a lot of people probably
listening are going to say, yes, but you had the money at that point to make that decision.
I really believe that I could have made money doing anything.
(30:23):
I didn't need to choose telecommunications. There was fear because that was
telecommunications was all I knew.
And there was more than that, a relentless push forward.
To prove everyone wrong. And I guess if anyone's in that situation,
they should know that that relentless pursuit just, it gets you nowhere.
(30:43):
I mean, yes, it might get you money in the bank, but you could do that doing
a thousand other things.
It is the most un-soul enriching path for anyone.
And I just don't recommend it. Yeah. And that's really great advice.
I mean, it's one thing to have a chip on your shoulder and try to prove what
you know you can become, but if you're not doing it for you,
if you're not doing things that really get your your passions behind the mission,
(31:06):
it's going to be hard to stay in that and have the persistence like you have.
I think it's important for people to realize that, that, you know,
the material success, the outward success, by the way, I love that speech by
Jim Carrey. I've seen the whole thing.
And, and I feel like that it's something we overlook.
We see the outward signs of material wealth and success and think that's what
(31:29):
I want. That's what I'm trying to achieve.
And it really isn't there's an inner pull that you
should be listening to and it sounds like you
have so i mean i read off a list of recognitions and
accolades before we started here and you've talked about them as well
so there's certainly you could take your pick but really for
you what are you most proud of to this point it's a good question i think i
(31:51):
think two things if i'm allowed to share two one absolutely one's quick i mean
i love the fact i mean that book that you have in your hand And the prequel
have sold just over 100,000 copies now. They're in 16 languages.
And I mean, I'm a guy that couldn't read and write. So having that kind of achievement
to have impacted so many people's lives, especially in a medium that isn't my natural, amazing.
(32:15):
Ecstatic to have done that. I think if I was to think about.
The number one thing that I'm probably really proud of is actually changing
the way that people network totally.
Just because, I mean, when I, so yes, I built a bunch of really successful business in Australia.
When I came to the US, I made the decision that I wanted to be a business coach,
which in truth basically means that you have to sell yourself,
(32:36):
not an external product, which, I mean, how do you not take rejection personally
when it's you? Right. Right.
Right. But I remember like the first time that, I mean, I wasn't even networking.
I was like, we just moved into an apartment complex. Like I just moved to the
United States. We were trying to find a house. And I met this guy that worked at a gym.
He wasn't working at a gym. He owned a gym. For 20 minutes, he told me about
(32:56):
how much he loved his gym and all the reasons for why he likes people getting healthy and whatnot.
And then he turned around, he's like, what do you do? And I was totally unprepared.
I knew that I wanted to help introverted service-based business owners.
I think there's something heroic about a person with enough talent,
skill, and belief in themselves to start a business of their own,
especially if they're introverted and they feel like the cards are stacked against them.
But I hadn't really thought of how I wanted to communicate that yet.
(33:18):
And I remember saying, I still regret this. I said, I was a sales coach and
he looked at me like I was one step above a scam artist.
And I was like, I couldn't take the words back.
And he started, you could tell he'd had a bad experience with a sales coach.
And he, I didn't have to guess. He told me pretty quickly.
And I started defending and talked about the 93 dollars before my sale and all
(33:42):
the things that I do differently.
And it was, it was like, I was was trying to convince him. I wasn't even trying
to get a sale. I was trying to make a friend.
It was weird. And I just found it. It was disgusting. It just felt yuck.
And so funnily enough, I ruminated on this. Like I never ruminated about daughter to sales.
Like, and by the way, for those introverts that ruminate, like it can be used
in a continuous improvement place.
(34:03):
Right. So I used to like ruminate, but in a continuous improvement way,
how can I do that better? It's not about the system, not the sale.
But I ruminated about this in a negative way. And I was like, Oh, I hated that.
So I was like, I'm never calling myself a sales coach again because people clearly don't like that.
So I remember going to a networking event and I went, oh, I'll try.
I'll say I'm a marketing coach.
And the first person was like, oh, you're in marketing. I need marketing. How much do you cost?
(34:24):
And I'm like, dude, we just met. Yeah, yeah, right, right. And then I would
remember the next person. It was like, oh, I already have someone in marketing.
Okay. Yeah. Like, what do I say there? I've got magic ruby slippers, like different.
Like, I mean, I felt like it just, everything felt contrived.
So I went back to YouTube to try and find some form of ideology that would allow
(34:45):
me me to do it differently because I mean, there had to be something, right?
The best I could find was an elevator pitch, which is I do this for this group
of people, even if it sounded so contrived and like, almost like,
you know, I'm just trying to think of a good example.
I'm a sales and marketing coach for introverted service based business owners
that feel like the cards are stacked against them all that feel like they're terrible at sales.
Horrible. And for me, it sounds like, you know, I love to work with you because
(35:10):
I'm trying to buy a new car. And if I got you as as a client,
I'd be able to buy it. Thank you.
So I was like, I have to change this. And then I came up with this concept called
the unified message, because I believe that everybody has natural skills,
gifts, talents, beliefs that perfectly qualify them to yes, help a demographic
of people, their niche, but with a specific outcome.
And what I realized is that everybody defines what they do by their functional
(35:34):
skill. And how, how is that okay?
Like, it's like, yes, you're a 10X coach, but you are so much more than that,
right? You are a life of experience. Every every book you've ever read.
And what I find is that most people want to put it in a nice bow and people
appreciate that because they're like, oh, I already have that. Thank you. Yeah.
Discarded. So I started calling myself the rapid growth guy and people,
(35:57):
it was like, it gave them an aneurysm. It was like, what is that?
So of course I'd be interested before I was trying to be interesting.
And then they would say, you know what, Matt, I can't believe I've been speaking
to you for 20 minutes. What is it that you do?
And I would say, oh, I'm the rapid Just like I said, I'm an accountant, full stop.
And people would fall over themselves. And they'd be like, what is that?
And for two reasons, right?
One is our brain needs to neatly put things in a box and we want to know what
(36:21):
to do with it. We can't not solve that puzzle.
But secondly, because I built so much rapport with them and I was interested
in them, they wanted to be interested back. So it was like this double concoction.
And what I found then, of course, everyone's expecting me to then say,
oh, well, I'm in sales and marketing and blah, blah, blah.
Horrible. What I would respond with was, well, one of the things I love to see
more than anything in the world is an amazing introverted service provider with
(36:43):
enough talent, skill, and belief in themselves to start a business of their own.
But what I find more often than not, and I hate seeing this,
is they generally get stuck in this endless hamster wheel of struggling to find
interest in people, trying to set themselves apart, trying to make the sale,
really feeling like people only care about one thing, price.
And then I would ask them if they knew anyone like that. Well,
of course, if you've done your research, I mean, I never go to a networking
event where I haven't connected with people in advance.
(37:03):
Yeah. And so they feel more like planned meetings. Sure, sure.
But then they would say, well, I'm like that. What a surprise.
I've met with them before, right? I profiled them.
And I'd say, well, I'm on a mission to help introverted service-based business
owners like yourself realize you're not a second-class citizen.
Your path to success is just different.
What you need to do, though, is instead of focusing on your functional skill,
you just need to focus on three things outside the scope of your functional
(37:24):
skill that allow you to build a business that revolves around you,
your family, and your life, not the other way around.
Actually, let me give you an example, and then I'll tell you a story.
Perfect. What's the difference? I didn't mention what I do at all.
I, there was, it was more about who I want to serve, the passion that I have for helping the world.
And I think that's the thing I'm most proud of because I feel that nobody,
extroverts included, hate networking because they feel that it's so transactional,
(37:48):
which is why they tend to move into like aimless networking,
where somebody will ask you what you do for a living.
You're like, well, my day job is this because you don't want to be promotional.
And I mean, no one wants to talk to someone who's like, doesn't even,
they're not even that interested. it.
And what I find is the unified message combined with the passion and mission
statement and then leading into a story, it's like this powerful concoction
(38:09):
that just, it overwhelms everyone because no one's ever experienced that.
Like even if they're not your ideal client, they're like, oh my God, I love what you've said.
I need to introduce you to so-and-so. Right. Right. Yeah.
And it is powerful and it's, it's a great concept. I think you also have talked
about a couple of different ways to put it into action, which is, which is amazing.
It's helpful. And I learned a lot from your discussion yesterday.
(38:30):
I've learned a lot from just us talking here today. So I think it's,
it's definitely something to be proud of.
You you've impacted so many people. So I gotta ask Matthew, like what's next for you?
Well, there's a new book coming out, but I can't release the name of it just yet.
My publisher has got me hushed, hushed, but I will, I will say that for me, I
You know, it's interesting. A lot of people will say, what's next?
(38:52):
What's next? What's next? I love what I do. And more of this is the honest answer.
So, you know, I feel like people are always on an endless pursuit to do more.
I mean, yeah, of course we, my whole team got given the task of using AI to replace themselves.
I promised none of them, all of them that I wouldn't fire them.
So yes, we want to be more efficient, but we just want to help more people.
(39:12):
And, you know, so I speak at a lot of events, I coach and consult, I have an online program.
And a lot of people feel like they need to create the next product,
the next thing, because their businesses aren't profitable or they,
to get the next level of growth, because they've got a vanilla message,
they need to have something new and exciting.
The truth is I don't. When you have, and this is the thing I talk about in my
networking book, like the whole book, the preface is, let me show you how to
(39:36):
master the networking room.
So you never have to go back to one because the truth is if you can't articulate
the value of what you provide, when somebody is politely listening to you in
their working room, you have no chance online.
And I mean, that's why people, I mean, I hated the concept of online because
to me it was like, take a photo of your donut or your dog for something to say.
And then I realized it was because everybody was trying to be the loudest.
Like I'm still here. I'm still here. I have nothing relevant to say, but I'm still here.
(39:58):
And I just felt that if I could be super on point, then I didn't have to work so hard.
And so for me, I, you know, I've had the same online program for seven and a
half years and it still helps people.
I haven't created another one. Yes. We've created a little micro courses for
different needs. Sure. Sure.
Continue to develop it. Right. Exactly. We've got a platform called introvert
(40:18):
you, where I also have like my, my new invisible sales method for just sales
people that want, you know, just a sales process.
And mainly because I hate the world, the way sales works these days.
Like, you know, I'm so glad we could meet today. You know, tell me a bit about your business. Sure.
I'd love to, after checking out my website, what questions do you have?
Oh, I've done the research.
And so I teach people how to structure that to show that you've done your research.
(40:39):
Cause a lot of people have, they just, they, They, they just don't articulate
it. And so they get the halo effect of those bad salespeople.
So yes, I do have little trainings and things that I do, but what I,
you know, for me, what's next is really just about.
And this is why the new book is so important. Why I can't give away the title,
the preface, is very much about there are a lot of people that really embrace
(40:59):
Susan Cain's quiet book.
And I think it empowered a whole generation of introverts, which I love.
And I will say that it's not a counterpoint book, but it's a lot of people read it.
And even though Susan Cain outwardly said that she was a negotiator,
which is pretty much an extrovert arena, right? Or so-called, I would say.
She was good at it. And yet people feel like they can't negotiate as an introvert.
(41:22):
And yet they read the book and they went, I'm an empowered writer.
I'm an empowered this and I'm empowered that.
My book's pretty much going to be on the concept of, look, I get it.
We're empowered. We're quiet.
Great. But I'm not that quiet.
I'm concise. I'm directional. But the thing that I want people to believe is,
yes, if you want to be a writer, be a writer. If you want to be a coder,
(41:43):
be whatever you want to be.
And those so-called extroverted arenas are not out of touch or out of reach.
For you. And that's, that's what the new book is really about.
It's about helping people confront that reality really head on is that they
need to not do these activities, but know that they can and then choose.
Sure. Sure. It sounds like you're telling them to be true to their unified message.
(42:04):
Yeah. I mean, in my world, success in all these so-called extroverted arenas
is not about becoming more extroverted
because to me, that's a ticket to inauthenticity and exhaustion.
It's about leaning into your introverted strengths. But the thing that I find
is people either try to become more extroverted or they tell themselves they can't.
(42:26):
And actually, I put this on a slide. So often people, they convince themselves
they can't before they've ever dedicated enough time to really find out.
And I'm not saying that they need to. I'm saying like a lot of people don't
And by the way, the used car salespeople totally stole sales.
Like the definition of sales is really derived from the original Scandinavian term to serve.
(42:46):
I'm always good with serving people. I don't want to be a salesperson either.
So firstly, you have to get past the delusion that sales is a dirty word,
but you also then need to decide if that's what you want to do.
And for a lot of people that are under a degree qualified, sales is a wonderful
place where you can earn a huge amount of money.
And I mean, the world of entrepreneurship is too now, but both of those things
kind of feel out of reach for introverts.
And again, I'm not saying people should want that. I'm just saying that they
(43:08):
should decide after they're fully informed.
That's great. It's really important to make sure that people align with that
and their purpose and their message.
And you've done that great. So I really appreciate your insights here.
You've given me a lot to really understand and take as someone who identifies
really more as an introvert than anything else.
(43:29):
But I've used it in a way that allows me to still connect with people more genuinely.
I love the unified message. I really appreciate you bringing that here and introducing
to the group. So thank you so much for your time today.
This has been excellent. It was my absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, really great. So we'll leave it there.
And you definitely had me fired up with the message you had today.
I want to encourage all of you to stay fired up and go do something great.
(43:52):
Music.
In 2007, I remember a relentless push to prove everyone wrong.
And I guess if anyone's in that situation, they should know that that relentless
pursuit, it gets you nowhere.
So from a leadership perspective, it's the same thing. It's never about me,
but it's always about the mission.
Not about them, not about me,
(00:23):
but about the mission. People these days can get paid to work anywhere.
They want to feel like they're part of something.
Welcome back to the Fired Up Podcast. I'm your host, Brad Reba.
We have got another exciting episode with an inspiring entrepreneur,
and I'm excited to have him on the show today.
(00:43):
In fact, I think my next guest doesn't really require an introduction,
but he deserves it. So I'm going to give it to him.
So let's talk about, first of all, you're everything that epitomizes 10X and
massive action. You're the rapid growth guy, right?
So, I mean, first of all, the book, The Introvert's Edge to Networking,
(01:04):
this was really something insightful to me, but I know you've received a lot of accolades.
Neil Patel said it was a game changer, the real deal, according to Forbes.
And you've got five multimillion-dollar success stories of your your own,
helped 3,500 plus business owners that were struggling to grow their business,
(01:25):
been recognized by, I mean, Fortune, Inc., a CEO magazine.
I mean, really the list goes on and on.
And I'm just excited that I got a chance to meet you and hear your story because
it inspired me. I thought it would inspire the audience as well.
So I'm excited to welcome Matthew Pollard to the Fired Up podcast.
Well, I'm ecstatic to be here. I appreciate you having me on.
(01:47):
And as you know, every chance I get to inspire other introverts like me to realize
that, you know, we're not second-class citizens. Our path to success is just different.
It's so important to me. So I appreciate you allowing me to do that on your
forum, in front of your audience.
Yeah, great. And you're a very accomplished podcast host, author, speaker on your own.
So a lot of things that, you know, you've become and your persona is very different
(02:10):
than what you told me you started from.
So I thought it'd be great just to kind of start there and really understand
the, Why did you get into the coaching business and really take that entrepreneurial
journey? Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, those are two questions, really. I mean, the...
Origin story is I shouldn't be the one coaching, I guess is the answer.
(02:31):
I mean, for me, when I think about my personal journey, and I think this is
actually a really important point to make.
So many people project extroversion and gift of the gab and natural ability
on anyone that succeeded.
And I think that's a lot to do with, and it's funny, when I ask people if they're
introverted or extroverted, they'll say, oh, I was introverted,
but don't worry, I'm extroverted now. Like it's something I have to get over.
(02:52):
People even use the words like, oh, I'm a recovering introvert.
Like there was something, like it was a condition that they've,
and there's nothing wrong with being introverted.
Like you saw me speak yesterday and, you know, I've, I felt like everybody engaged
with me. At least I, I hope that they did. And, but I was just tired afterwards.
Like that was the difference. Like I, I went straight from that,
by the way, to another meeting, to another meeting. It was only when I got back
to the hotel room, I felt like I'd been skydiving.
(03:15):
I was just, I was just exhausted. But you know, my origin story really is,
you know, I had a reading speed of a sixth grader in late high school.
I was super introverted. And I really, I mean, I got diagnosed with this thing
called Erlen syndrome, which, you know, luckily enough, basically means I put
on a pair of funny colored lenses, which didn't exactly help with the confidence,
but I can miraculously, you know, learn to read.
(03:35):
Now I couldn't read like everybody else. I could start the process of learning.
So for the last two years of high school, I hustled like crazy just to,
to get good enough grades.
I got into the top 20% of my state, but my, my family realized,
and I knew I was exhausted.
Like I didn't know what I wanted to do and I knew I wouldn't stick it out.
So we all agreed I was going to take a year off to find myself.
And so I took a job at a real estate agency. And I mean, you're a tennis coach.
(03:57):
I mean, I know you, you coach a lot of real estate agents and most people would
expect me to say right now, I was the guy out selling.
I wasn't, I was the guy in the back office doing data entry.
Look at my face. Like, don't speak to me. I'm here to find myself. Right, right, right.
Well, three weeks into that job, I lost it because they shut down the office.
So here I am, and this is Australia at Christmas time. So that's summer.
(04:17):
So for those people, like few American audience, yeah, it ain't snowing.
It's the best time of our year.
So people take, you know, from the 20th of December to the 15th or 20th of January off.
No one's hiring. And so the only jobs I could get were these things in the paper
called commission only sales roles.
And I mean, you saw me put up that photo of me at my sister's wedding with the terrible acne. near.
(04:39):
No way was I happy with that, right? But it was the only job I could get.
My dad broke his back 80 hours a week supporting the family.
I had to apply to them. Well, I applied to all three jobs that were in the paper.
That was the only three jobs hiring.
I got three job interviews. Then I got three job offers. And I'm like,
wow, maybe they see something. I don't see myself.
Well, I was wrong. I went in, I took a job selling business to business telecommunications.
(05:00):
And I went in with this little bit of quiet confidence because all three people hired me.
Well, my trainer put that to bed real quick. He's like, Matt,
we just, we hire everyone. We've got this saying, we just throw mud up against
the wall. We see what sticks.
Confidence just, yeah, right. Yeah, so it wasn't exactly that.
I mean, he could have lied to me. It would have made it feel a little bit better,
right? Yeah, yeah, right, right.
But yeah, I get thrown on this road called Sydney Road in Melbourne,
Australia, five days later after, just five days product training.
(05:21):
I mean, no sales training. I don't understand why.
I think it's because people don't, like, the rules are you have to give them
the product training and then they're like, we'll just see how you get, like, why invest in you?
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I'd like to think that's changed now,
but it really hasn't in a lot of commission only sales roles, unfortunately.
But I mean, there I was, I had no idea what to say.
I walked into the first door and people wonder why I say I luckily was politely told to leave.
(05:45):
But shortly after I was sworn at, then I was told to get a real job,
which was always my favorite. Oh, I love that. It was the only job I could get. Sure, sure.
So here I am and door after door that just kept happening.
And I got to my 93rd door and I made my first sale. And I mean,
I was ecstatic. I made like $70.
And for me that was a lot of money back then but the,
I then had this realization, I've got to do this again tomorrow and the next
(06:06):
day and the next. And I'm not okay with this. I just, the whole idea was daunting.
But I think that one of the things that kind of just people do is they're like,
well, I just have to rely on lady luck or, you know, that's just the way it
is. You know, I either have the gift or I don't.
And I just wasn't willing to accept that. So I decided to take responsibility
really and say, well, what if there was another way?
And for that, I had to realize that, well, the assumption, the guess that I
(06:29):
made at that time was that sales had to be a system.
And I went to work just kind of learning the system and
you know I mean I had a reading speed of a sixth grader I'm not exactly picking
up a you know Brian Tracy or his
exeggable grant card I wasn't available at that time but you know when I got
to YouTube I typed in the word sales system and all these videos came up and
you know it blows me away that a lot of people don't go to YouTube for more
(06:51):
sure why not it's yeah it's there it's free and exactly a lot of information
well that's how I taught myself like I'd spend eight hours out in the field
applying what I learned than I before.
I would spend eight hours practicing the next day. You know,
as soon as I finished my eight hours in the field, like either working on what
I, the step that I was working on or the next one.
And then I spent 16 hours practicing every weekend. And I know by the way,
for the audience that's listening, this does not sound fun. I get it.
(07:13):
And there are smarter ways these days, but that's all I could learn how to do.
And back then there wasn't anywhere near as much it's available today,
but I got better real quick.
Like soon it was like 71 doors, then 43 doors, then 18, Slowly getting better and better, right.
Yeah, I got it down to making a sale every three doors.
And, I mean, what was interesting was six weeks in.
(07:34):
My manager pulls me aside. He had the same face that my real estate boss had
when I was about to lose my job. And I'm like, I've done something wrong.
Like I was the quiet guy that handed my paperwork downstairs.
All the boisterous salespeople talking about, you know, how they closed that
deal, locked it in. And, you know, they, you know, the market's getting harder.
I wasn't really involved. So I thought that I was doing something wrong because
I wasn't really accepted by the community upstairs.
(07:56):
Right, right, right. And he's like, we just got the national sales figures,
which, you know, back then used to come out once a month. and kind of blown
away by this, but you're the number one salesperson in the company,
which just so happened to be the largest sales and marketing company in the
Southern Hemisphere. I mean, the whole thing took six weeks.
So, I mean, I say to people all the time, like, yes, it was a lot of work.
And I don't think people have to do that amount of work now because there's
so much out there to help.
(08:18):
But the truth is I've carried that success my whole life. And yet most people,
even if they did it over six months or even a year, my goodness.
And I went from terrified to
sell to really, I mean, being the best in the business of that business.
So the funny thing was, and this always makes me laugh, so he told me I was the best in the company.
And he's like, so you can manage. I don't know why people think that.
(08:41):
Like, I had no idea. Very different skills. He's like, no worries,
just mud up against the wall. We'll be a team, see what sticks.
Everybody quit, all of them, in 24 hours. But I went back to YouTube,
learned to manage, got pretty good at it, got promoted about seven times in
the space of 12 months, and then started my own business.
And fast forward just shy of a decade, I was responsible for five multi-million
dollar success stories. Fantastic.
But yeah, I mean, I was definitely not the person that would,
(09:03):
I mean, I actually think if I hadn't lost my job at that real estate agency,
I probably would still be happily doing some form of administrative role.
Sure, sure. And for those people that are in administrative roles,
you know, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to be an administrator role or be a writer or whatever.
Or be a coder. Like there are a lot of people that just want those quieter jobs
or those creative roles. Sure. Sure. I couldn't imagine not doing what I do today.
(09:26):
It was not, I'm not suggesting that this is the path for everyone,
small business ownership, sales, what, or leadership, public speaking.
What I'm saying is that I hid away from these things because I didn't know they were possible.
And I believe that everybody needs to know that they're possible for them and
they can choose whether they or not they want them.
Yeah. There's skills that you can learn, right? It's not something you're born into.
And like you were talking about introverts versus extroverts.
(09:47):
Yeah. I think that, you know, it's important to understand that it just takes
work and it takes persistence.
And you had to persist through a number of challenges, the biggest being not
knowing what you didn't know at that time.
So now, like you said, fast forward, you've raised multi-million dollar businesses
into the, you know, success that you have.
(10:10):
And you've also helped other business owners with their own struggles.
Struggles, but as you grow and we got introduced because of,
of EO entrepreneurs organization.
And one of the criteria is, is that you do have a thriving business,
right? A million dollars or more in revenue.
And so you realize that as businesses grow, you just inherit bigger problems.
(10:30):
And, you know, people have this, this, this nomer that there's some magic to
the success and then everything's fine.
And you're just, your business just runs on autopilot. But the truth is you
just different problems.
So talk about the challenges as your business has grown that you've run into
and how you've overcome that.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's really important if we look at the,
(10:51):
I guess, the important learnings in my beginning story.
I mean, yeah, sure. Everything's a learnable skill. That's absolutely a great learning.
And I think whether you apply that to sales, leadership, public speaking,
any of those so-called extroverted arenas, but gosh, I mean,
extroverts have their own burdens to bear, right?
Some might say they're not the best listeners. Some might say they're not the
most empathetic. Those are all learnable skills also.
(11:11):
And I guess the difference is that extroverts know they can learn those skills.
And if they work for a global organization, the HR team will send them to learn those skills.
But everyone says, oh, poor Johnny, he's an introvert. He can't learn how to
sell or can't learn to network.
I think that, and by the way, for people listening, I mean, what I just said
makes it easy for people to say, that's it. I'll blame the corporations.
(11:32):
I'll blame the way the world is. I don't think that's the answer.
I think the answer is that for me, the world never worked for me.
And instead of blaming it and, you know, you saw me talk about storytelling
and I talk about the science of storytelling and how it short circuits the logical
mind, you speak to the emotional mind.
Well, if you're telling yourself these really theatrical masterpiece stories
about why it's harder for you, then you're not looking for solutions.
(11:55):
So for me, I always started from a place of how do I take responsibility for this problem?
I understand it may not be my fault, but how does that help me?
How does that serve me? So I would really say, well.
How can I take responsibility for this? How can I assume responsibility?
And then I live in what if thinking, right?
So I just spoke in Detroit and that, you know, obviously the home of Henry Ford,
(12:17):
but he has this wonderful saying, if I think I can, or if I think I can't, I'm right.
And so for me, I lived in this, what if thinking of what if there was another
way, what if there was another way, as opposed to explaining why it's harder
or why it's probably not possible.
What if, what if, and that's how I discovered the sales system.
And, you know, quite easily sales may not have been a system.
Funnily enough, when I typed sales system into to YouTube, I realized I wasn't
(12:39):
the first person that had that idea. Right.
But there's the, I mean, you know, everyone's probably heard of the book,
The Secret. Like, okay, cool.
Think of it. Believe it. Sure. Do the work. And I think that was the biggest
thing for me. It was, I took responsibility.
I lived in what if, and I was willing to do the work. And I think that what
I've learned, I, it's really interesting.
(13:02):
I find that you're a hundred percent right about businesses just just getting bigger problems.
And I actually think that the problems that you have as you're growing a bigger
business, if you haven't had burdens when you start, you're actually really
not well-equipped to handle them because you're not willing to,
you don't emotionally regulate.
Well, you don't accept the problem as your own, because what do you mean the
(13:25):
world's not working the way it's always supposed to for me?
And then you don't live in what if, because the problem is is that you're always
naturally having, it's like the Michael Jordan story, right?
Like the concept, like he wasn't naturally brilliant at basketball,
but he just did the work and he got better.
I actually think the people that have natural abilities and tend to...
(13:46):
Be, I mean, especially in sales, right? The top 10% of all sales performers
have a planned presentation. That's just the statistics.
The bottom 80% just say whatever comes out of their mouth, right?
Well, what do you expect the introverts sit at that? Right at the bottom.
Extroverts, right at the top of the 80%. But in the top 10% echelon,
a lot of introverts in that space.
And funnily enough, on the global gurus list of top 30 sales professionals,
(14:07):
which I'm honored to be on, and I thought I was the only introvert.
Turns out most of them are introverted. Most of them, okay.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's, the thing is, I was the first one to outwardly put the
word introvert, which I thought I was going to get slammed for on my book and
say introverts actually have the edge when it comes to sales.
But I think that in all things in business, I think it takes the humbleness
of saying, I'm not expected to have the answer.
(14:30):
I'm expected to go find it. And I think that's always the rule set that I've had.
And my team, I'm very open about my Achilles heels.
I'm very open about the fact that if you call me after I've spoken at an event
and after I've had a whole series of meetings at my hotel room,
I behave less like your boss and more like a tantrum, you five-year-old.
So please just understand that if it's urgent, you can call me, but ignore that.
(14:55):
And I've done my best to emotionally regulate and I'll apologize while I know
that I'm not in the best place to answer the question.
And a lot of times people will call me and I'll text them and I'll say,
look, this is my downtime.
Is this urgent just to remind them. And I've learned those sorts of things,
but I take responsibility for the fact that I know I'm not in the best place.
And because of that, it's not like I didn't love everything I just did.
I love speaking. I love helping people.
(15:17):
But I also know that there are times where I need to be more in control of myself
and more mindful of the fact that I'm not in my best way to serve others.
And because of that, I remove myself and I'll have downtime and I'll I'll sit
there and watch Netflix in the dark and people are like, but that's a waste
of time. It's three o'clock in the afternoon.
I'm like, so what? Right. If I need to charge up.
(15:40):
It's not, no one sets the times and schedules. Like don't believe any rules.
What you need to do is just say, how can I be my best self?
How can I take responsibility for anything where I'm not my best self?
And then can I learn systems and strategies?
Because I found that after speaking at an event, I couldn't do meetings afterwards
because I was not a hundred percent emotionally centered.
(16:01):
But then I learned how to, how to manage my energy on stage. So I was less anxious.
And a lot of that is telling stories and learning stagecraft.
So you're less uncomfortable and not trying to lean into becoming an extrovert
because that's not a path to success for us introverts.
But then also understanding that there are lines because we have our battery.
(16:22):
You know, an extrovert just gets more and more charged. But try and get him
to sit in a room and do work on a computer.
Right, right. Not happening. Again, we all have our burdens.
We just have to learn how to compensate for those. And also be honest with your team.
Like if we have this force, nothing's ever wrong. I'm invincible.
Yeah. Well, you're not going to succeed. You might get to a million.
You're not going to get million plus right right and nobody's buying that
100 of the time right and if anything it sort of puts
(16:45):
the you know a an uncomfortable pressure back
on the other people like why is this person always put
together 100 knows where they're going i don't know if i always do and you know
maybe i'm not enough in this in this job and i think that it's inspiring to
see the human side of of a leader and the fact that you're vulnerable enough
(17:05):
to and and you understand understand that that's a part of who you are and you
can express that to people.
Actually, I think it makes you a stronger leader than if you were to try to
hide that or, or pretend that it's not there because.
You point out that the downtime is important. It's actually part of your system, it sounds like, right?
The difference between wasting time watching Netflix and using it as a source
(17:27):
of recharge is that it was part of your plan.
You knew that that was downtime so that you could be your best self on stage
in front of the people that needed you to be 100% on.
So you were doing it for a reason. It wasn't just mindless. Yeah,
you're 100% right on that.
I mean, you saw me speak from stage, so you could probably speak to it.
But I'm like a shot of adrenaline, I think. Absolutely. I am a supercharger.
(17:50):
I watched you come on. I'm like, how many Red Bulls does this guy have before
he got on stage? I mean, it's amazing.
And like you had said, we didn't know the backstory at the time that your flight had been delayed.
You had all this cross-international travel.
Is jet lag even a thing to you? I don't think it is because it's like.
Yes, it is. So things do affect me. This is the thing. I'm not bulletproof.
(18:12):
No, I get it. I'm just passionate.
Yeah. And that's the thing. When you do something, and this is one of the things
I say all the time. You can create a rapid growth business out of anything these
days, but there's nothing worse than a rapid growth business with customers
you don't like and a business you can't stand.
And especially when I speak at small business groups, gosh, I love it.
And it is a huge passion thing for me.
So yeah, I mean, my flight was delayed three and a half hours.
I got into the hotel room.
(18:32):
I think I got to sleep at like one and then I had to be there super early.
So it was, I was exhausted. Sure.
Until, firstly, introvert, this is actually a real advantage.
I still get nervous before I speak on stage. So I do get this adrenaline rush.
That you extroverts don't get like I do, right?
When you're tired, you're tired. For me, I'm like, oh, I'm scared, excited.
Yeah, okay. But then once I get on stage and I start sharing my story,
(18:54):
I love doing it. So I get this huge amount of passion energy.
And because of that, I can go all day on that.
But that means that I also need to understand that I am going to hit a wall.
So yes, I have to plan for it. But what I meant by being that supercharger,
I know I can do that purely on passion.
And I could do it without a night's sleep and still be fine.
(19:15):
But if you don't plan for the come down. Yeah.
And if you said in really important meeting after, like for me,
I know I can do back-to-back meetings, but if you give me an hour break and
then ask me to do a meeting, not going to happen.
Okay. Right. So I have to stay. Stay in that energy. Yeah.
Because, and I know that you need to give me two hours.
After doing, you know, if it's one hour, not so much, maybe an hour,
(19:36):
but if I do a half day, like you saw me do, right.
I need two hours to emotionally recharge.
And I'm not saying my energy, like emotionally recharge is the right word,
but then after that I'm back and I'm rock solid. Right.
And I know that, you know, for me, I need to watch a silly show.
Funnily enough, I need to watch a show I've watched often because I don't want
to tolerate not enjoying it.
Right. So I need to watch something like, you know, there's TV shows like Scrubs
(19:59):
or Boston Legal. and I know when the first 10 seconds happens,
what it is, what's going to happen.
And I need that predictability of, I know what's going to happen.
It's less mental energy, right? Exactly. And you know, I know what happens in
the show, but like for me, it's not about the show.
Half the time, I don't even remember watching the show. It's just about having
that meditative almost state.
But what I've, what I've learned is I can be that supercharger of energy and that's not fake.
(20:23):
Like a lot of extroverts will say, Oh, do these big gestures.
That's not me. I'm just passionate and you can tell.
And I could, I mean, I joke about the, you know, Red Bull, but I could tell
it was actually not from any other source, but your own.
And the other thing that it seemed like, which was interesting because you think
introverts get their energy by that alone time, but you did connect genuinely with everybody.
(20:49):
And you talk about in your book, the types of people that we,
you know, we have givers, takers, and balance sheet makers, right?
I really saw you as a giver in that instance, even though you were doing a lot
of the talking, you were giving of yourself and you really weren't looking for,
you know, a return based on that audience. It was just, how can I share?
How can I help this group learn from the stories that you had and the stories
(21:14):
of people that you've helped?
I mean, talk about that when you build a team, because it seems like the system
certainly helped you overcome some of these challenges, but also the team.
How do you know that you've got the right people partnered with you when you
look at the way that, you know, different people are motivated and how you can align?
Yeah, absolutely. When you talk about...
The, the energy I talk about, I actually have a presentation called channel
(21:36):
you superpower, and it's all about connecting with passion.
And a lot of people are like, Oh, well, I'm not really passionate about what
I do. It's just practical. I make great. That's never true.
Right. Because people could have done anything. They chose this,
but usually it's because they're
going too broad or they're not servicing their best type of clients.
And they bled into, I just need to do what's practical rather than I need to
do what I'm passionate about, which always ends up making you more money because
(21:56):
you have the extra access to that energy source.
Right. Right. And so the first thing that I, I mean, I, I need to make sure
people are aligned with my passion and mission. That's like the number one criteria.
Like I can teach anything. I can't get people to be excited about what I'm excited about.
And so for me, the passion, the mission, like organizations have like mission
(22:16):
statements and I think they're dry and boring.
So I always suggest like for, especially, I mean, when you're talking about
a business that's under a hundred million, there's still a strong leader and
it's in a lot of ways, is a personal brand driving an organization forward.
And whether or not it's a company brand with a visionary leader that's driving
a whole bunch of people internally, or whether it's a face of the brand driving
(22:39):
it, it doesn't matter, right?
When you're talking about your internal team, there's a face to that brand.
And so the thing that I always, what I learned, like when I speak to on stage,
when I'm leading a team, it's never about me, right?
I mean, it's my number one rule of networking, which is weird because everyone's
like, oh, I got to talk about myself.
No, you don't. right? When you're networking, you don't want to talk about yourself.
(22:59):
When you're leading, it's not about you. When you're speaking from stage, it's not about you.
And I find that when you get up on stage and make it all about you,
it's exhausting because it's anxiety riddled.
But if you just get on stage and you are honestly trying to help everybody in
the audience, it actually gives you energy because you feel like you're at service
(23:20):
and the anxiety dissipates.
You know, I interviewed Ryan Dice, who founded the Traffic and Conversion Summit
and, you know, huge event.
And he said, like, every time I was worried about how people perceive me,
I could barely get on stage.
But then, you know, when I started to think about the fact that these people
needed to hear what I had to say, and I made it all about them,
he said, I never got scared.
(23:42):
And I mean, you think about like, he's, I mean, when I interviewed him on the
Introverts Edge podcast, he's so introverted that he won't get on stage unless
there's a back entrance. He doesn't want to walk off the stage.
Oh, really? Okay. He's just scared of being trampled. It's a weird thing,
but it just is what it is. So from a leadership perspective, it's the same thing.
It's never about me, but it's always about the mission.
Not about them, not about me, but about the mission. Now, I need to be focused
(24:04):
on helping them get past whatever they're struggling with, but it's all about
helping and serving the mission.
So one of the things that I always recommend people do, and.
I talk about this from a networking perspective or a sales perspective,
but it applies to an organization globally.
And I say this is the secret document you hand to your team.
It's not something you publicly make available like a mission statement perhaps you put on the wall.
(24:26):
But basically what I suggest from a mantra perspective is you say,
here's my unified message. And that's obviously something that's unique IP.
We can talk about it if you like. But then I say, here is the niche that I serve.
Now, a niche can be an industry. It can be an outcome, a problem that people have.
And there's lots of variance to that. But then you say, here is why it's congruent
with me. You can talk about your unique skills, your unique upbringing, your unique talents.
(24:50):
And as a larger organization, you talk about your unique core competencies.
But then what I get people to suggest is write down what you love to see.
The people that you work with in that niche, what's the desired end state?
And then what do you hate to see? And what does it look like for them in their
life if they don't get to work with you? Okay.
And then I go to the next piece, which is, you know, why is your ideal client
(25:12):
going to rally to your cause? And I get them to write down –.
And this, in a lot of ways, I call this the empathetic introvert,
right? Because introverts have empathy.
For extroverts, a lot of times they have to interview their clients to understand it a little bit more.
But I talk about what's going on in the daily life of your client and,
you know, what's keeping them up at night?
What's bouncing them out of bed in the morning? What are they mentally struggling
with? All of the things that are going on and people are like,
(25:35):
oh, business, business, business.
And I'm like, no, like they're taking this stuff home. How is it affecting their
relationship with their wife and their kids? How is, you know,
did they miss their kid's dance recital because so-and-so didn't show up on
Friday or whatever, and maybe their daughter's not speaking to them, right?
So how, like, that's what I'm really looking at.
And then the last question is, what makes you the only logical choice for your ideal demographic?
(25:58):
And what's interesting is people write a whole bunch of vanilla rubbish the
first time they write it. And I'm like, this could apply to any business.
Sure, sure. And it could apply to anyone.
Get really specific on your specific niche niche and get really specific on
what's going on in their unique life?
And the answer is a lot of times they don't know. And I'm like,
well, that's why you're not selling to them.
And that's why you struggle to get people emboldened to work in your team.
(26:19):
And that's why you've got terrible
retention because people these days can get paid to work anywhere.
They want to feel like they're part of something. And when they feel like they're
part of something, they're willing to accept perhaps a needy extra needy introvert,
you know, after a big speaking event, because they're like, okay,
he did something that's important to our mission.
We're going to let him pause. We'll We'll handle this for him until he's ready
(26:39):
to come back. Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that's important because they connect better with the mission,
but they also connect better to you because they know the whole person.
And if you give them that insight, then they kind of understand where you're coming from.
Whereas if you're trying to just be this persona, it's hard to connect with that.
If the mission is sort of, you're trying to be all things to all people,
(27:01):
which we talked about it, you can't, right?
Then you're not anything for anybody. And so that is a great insight to building
a team and getting people to rally around you and your mission.
So as you've grown and built successful teams, successful businesses and helped
others, I'm sure there's things along the way that.
If you had them to do again, maybe it was a misstep that you could have done
(27:23):
differently. You're better informed now, right?
You're more, is there anything that sticks out that that's, that's a lesson
learned that if you had it to do again, you'd do it differently? Oh, absolutely.
So my first business was a telecommunications company. I mean,
I'd sold telecommunications, of course, I moved into communications.
It was all I knew, but I still had this, everyone sees me as the slow kid.
I've got something to prove mentality.
(27:45):
And I would say, I safely could say I wasted three years of my life on that
business. I mean, I made a ton of money, don't get me wrong.
It was that business at that time, oh my gosh, I lucked out, I would say.
But also I didn't because I wasn't doing something that was fulfilling for me, right?
I've always found that the closer I get to helping the individual, great.
I mean, call rates, don't get me wrong. I convinced myself, deluded myself that
(28:08):
a dollar saved is $10 made, right? Whatever.
Truthfully, if somebody told me about call rates and sat me down,
like I won't do my my own telecommunications plan now, just because I loathe telecommunications.
But the thing is that I built that business purely to prove to everybody that
I was worthy, I think is the right thing.
(28:31):
And I, in 2007, I won the Melbourne Young Achiever Award, which I mean,
it's a pretty significant award.
And I remember like, it should have been the...
The paramount, like capstone thing that kind of said, you know,
I mean, I had multiple cars in the driveway.
I had, I was living at a place that is phenomenal.
I had like 270 degree views in Melbourne city.
Like I, you know, I just had a great lifestyle. I spent money on clothes that
(28:54):
I didn't need. Like just, you know, doing the, I've for the first time got money. Yeah. Right.
And by the way, I don't do any of those things now.
Like none of those things are important, but I remember it going home,
sitting on not my balcony, but kind of like my view of the city, I was miserable.
I just, I realized that I'd done everything for everyone else.
(29:15):
And yes, I was making a lot of money, but money's, I mean, Jim Carrey kind of talks about this.
I wish everyone had the opportunity to be rich, to realize how insignificant it actually is.
And it's the same as like the people that drop their, their business to go and
start an entrepreneurial venture because that's the dream.
No, it's not. The dream is to run a business that revolves around you,
your family and your life, not not the other way around, where you're doing
(29:37):
something you're passionate about.
Any business is not the answer because usually it's the wrong business.
And usually because you're not passionate about it, you don't make the money
that you deserve because you're not willing to do, like, you don't put as much
energy into it as somebody that's passionate.
So you don't get paid well. And you also market yourself terribly.
So, and don't get me wrong, there's a lot of passionate people that market themselves
terribly too, but at least they've got the energy once it's working. Right, right.
(30:00):
But the thing is that in 2007, I remember saying, enough now.
Right. I've done enough to prove to other people. And truthfully,
I shouldn't have done it in the first place.
Now I'm just going to do what fills me. And I know that a lot of people probably
listening are going to say, yes, but you had the money at that point to make that decision.
I really believe that I could have made money doing anything.
(30:23):
I didn't need to choose telecommunications. There was fear because that was
telecommunications was all I knew.
And there was more than that, a relentless push forward.
To prove everyone wrong. And I guess if anyone's in that situation,
they should know that that relentless pursuit just, it gets you nowhere.
(30:43):
I mean, yes, it might get you money in the bank, but you could do that doing
a thousand other things.
It is the most un-soul enriching path for anyone.
And I just don't recommend it. Yeah. And that's really great advice.
I mean, it's one thing to have a chip on your shoulder and try to prove what
you know you can become, but if you're not doing it for you,
if you're not doing things that really get your your passions behind the mission,
(31:06):
it's going to be hard to stay in that and have the persistence like you have.
I think it's important for people to realize that, that, you know,
the material success, the outward success, by the way, I love that speech by
Jim Carrey. I've seen the whole thing.
And, and I feel like that it's something we overlook.
We see the outward signs of material wealth and success and think that's what
(31:29):
I want. That's what I'm trying to achieve.
And it really isn't there's an inner pull that you
should be listening to and it sounds like you
have so i mean i read off a list of recognitions and
accolades before we started here and you've talked about them as well
so there's certainly you could take your pick but really for
you what are you most proud of to this point it's a good question i think i
(31:51):
think two things if i'm allowed to share two one absolutely one's quick i mean
i love the fact i mean that book that you have in your hand And the prequel
have sold just over 100,000 copies now. They're in 16 languages.
And I mean, I'm a guy that couldn't read and write. So having that kind of achievement
to have impacted so many people's lives, especially in a medium that isn't my natural, amazing.
(32:15):
Ecstatic to have done that. I think if I was to think about.
The number one thing that I'm probably really proud of is actually changing
the way that people network totally.
Just because, I mean, when I, so yes, I built a bunch of really successful business in Australia.
When I came to the US, I made the decision that I wanted to be a business coach,
which in truth basically means that you have to sell yourself,
(32:36):
not an external product, which, I mean, how do you not take rejection personally
when it's you? Right. Right.
Right. But I remember like the first time that, I mean, I wasn't even networking.
I was like, we just moved into an apartment complex. Like I just moved to the
United States. We were trying to find a house. And I met this guy that worked at a gym.
He wasn't working at a gym. He owned a gym. For 20 minutes, he told me about
(32:56):
how much he loved his gym and all the reasons for why he likes people getting healthy and whatnot.
And then he turned around, he's like, what do you do? And I was totally unprepared.
I knew that I wanted to help introverted service-based business owners.
I think there's something heroic about a person with enough talent,
skill, and belief in themselves to start a business of their own,
especially if they're introverted and they feel like the cards are stacked against them.
But I hadn't really thought of how I wanted to communicate that yet.
(33:18):
And I remember saying, I still regret this. I said, I was a sales coach and
he looked at me like I was one step above a scam artist.
And I was like, I couldn't take the words back.
And he started, you could tell he'd had a bad experience with a sales coach.
And he, I didn't have to guess. He told me pretty quickly.
And I started defending and talked about the 93 dollars before my sale and all
(33:42):
the things that I do differently.
And it was, it was like, I was was trying to convince him. I wasn't even trying
to get a sale. I was trying to make a friend.
It was weird. And I just found it. It was disgusting. It just felt yuck.
And so funnily enough, I ruminated on this. Like I never ruminated about daughter to sales.
Like, and by the way, for those introverts that ruminate, like it can be used
in a continuous improvement place.
(34:03):
Right. So I used to like ruminate, but in a continuous improvement way,
how can I do that better? It's not about the system, not the sale.
But I ruminated about this in a negative way. And I was like, Oh, I hated that.
So I was like, I'm never calling myself a sales coach again because people clearly don't like that.
So I remember going to a networking event and I went, oh, I'll try.
I'll say I'm a marketing coach.
And the first person was like, oh, you're in marketing. I need marketing. How much do you cost?
(34:24):
And I'm like, dude, we just met. Yeah, yeah, right, right. And then I would
remember the next person. It was like, oh, I already have someone in marketing.
Okay. Yeah. Like, what do I say there? I've got magic ruby slippers, like different.
Like, I mean, I felt like it just, everything felt contrived.
So I went back to YouTube to try and find some form of ideology that would allow
(34:45):
me me to do it differently because I mean, there had to be something, right?
The best I could find was an elevator pitch, which is I do this for this group
of people, even if it sounded so contrived and like, almost like,
you know, I'm just trying to think of a good example.
I'm a sales and marketing coach for introverted service based business owners
that feel like the cards are stacked against them all that feel like they're terrible at sales.
Horrible. And for me, it sounds like, you know, I love to work with you because
(35:10):
I'm trying to buy a new car. And if I got you as as a client,
I'd be able to buy it. Thank you.
So I was like, I have to change this. And then I came up with this concept called
the unified message, because I believe that everybody has natural skills,
gifts, talents, beliefs that perfectly qualify them to yes, help a demographic
of people, their niche, but with a specific outcome.
And what I realized is that everybody defines what they do by their functional
(35:34):
skill. And how, how is that okay?
Like, it's like, yes, you're a 10X coach, but you are so much more than that,
right? You are a life of experience. Every every book you've ever read.
And what I find is that most people want to put it in a nice bow and people
appreciate that because they're like, oh, I already have that. Thank you. Yeah.
Discarded. So I started calling myself the rapid growth guy and people,
(35:57):
it was like, it gave them an aneurysm. It was like, what is that?
So of course I'd be interested before I was trying to be interesting.
And then they would say, you know what, Matt, I can't believe I've been speaking
to you for 20 minutes. What is it that you do?
And I would say, oh, I'm the rapid Just like I said, I'm an accountant, full stop.
And people would fall over themselves. And they'd be like, what is that?
And for two reasons, right?
One is our brain needs to neatly put things in a box and we want to know what
(36:21):
to do with it. We can't not solve that puzzle.
But secondly, because I built so much rapport with them and I was interested
in them, they wanted to be interested back. So it was like this double concoction.
And what I found then, of course, everyone's expecting me to then say,
oh, well, I'm in sales and marketing and blah, blah, blah.
Horrible. What I would respond with was, well, one of the things I love to see
more than anything in the world is an amazing introverted service provider with
(36:43):
enough talent, skill, and belief in themselves to start a business of their own.
But what I find more often than not, and I hate seeing this,
is they generally get stuck in this endless hamster wheel of struggling to find
interest in people, trying to set themselves apart, trying to make the sale,
really feeling like people only care about one thing, price.
And then I would ask them if they knew anyone like that. Well,
of course, if you've done your research, I mean, I never go to a networking
event where I haven't connected with people in advance.
(37:03):
Yeah. And so they feel more like planned meetings. Sure, sure.
But then they would say, well, I'm like that. What a surprise.
I've met with them before, right? I profiled them.
And I'd say, well, I'm on a mission to help introverted service-based business
owners like yourself realize you're not a second-class citizen.
Your path to success is just different.
What you need to do, though, is instead of focusing on your functional skill,
you just need to focus on three things outside the scope of your functional
(37:24):
skill that allow you to build a business that revolves around you,
your family, and your life, not the other way around.
Actually, let me give you an example, and then I'll tell you a story.
Perfect. What's the difference? I didn't mention what I do at all.
I, there was, it was more about who I want to serve, the passion that I have for helping the world.
And I think that's the thing I'm most proud of because I feel that nobody,
extroverts included, hate networking because they feel that it's so transactional,
(37:48):
which is why they tend to move into like aimless networking,
where somebody will ask you what you do for a living.
You're like, well, my day job is this because you don't want to be promotional.
And I mean, no one wants to talk to someone who's like, doesn't even,
they're not even that interested. it.
And what I find is the unified message combined with the passion and mission
statement and then leading into a story, it's like this powerful concoction
(38:09):
that just, it overwhelms everyone because no one's ever experienced that.
Like even if they're not your ideal client, they're like, oh my God, I love what you've said.
I need to introduce you to so-and-so. Right. Right. Yeah.
And it is powerful and it's, it's a great concept. I think you also have talked
about a couple of different ways to put it into action, which is, which is amazing.
It's helpful. And I learned a lot from your discussion yesterday.
(38:30):
I've learned a lot from just us talking here today. So I think it's,
it's definitely something to be proud of.
You you've impacted so many people. So I gotta ask Matthew, like what's next for you?
Well, there's a new book coming out, but I can't release the name of it just yet.
My publisher has got me hushed, hushed, but I will, I will say that for me, I
You know, it's interesting. A lot of people will say, what's next?
(38:52):
What's next? What's next? I love what I do. And more of this is the honest answer.
So, you know, I feel like people are always on an endless pursuit to do more.
I mean, yeah, of course we, my whole team got given the task of using AI to replace themselves.
I promised none of them, all of them that I wouldn't fire them.
So yes, we want to be more efficient, but we just want to help more people.
(39:12):
And, you know, so I speak at a lot of events, I coach and consult, I have an online program.
And a lot of people feel like they need to create the next product,
the next thing, because their businesses aren't profitable or they,
to get the next level of growth, because they've got a vanilla message,
they need to have something new and exciting.
The truth is I don't. When you have, and this is the thing I talk about in my
networking book, like the whole book, the preface is, let me show you how to
(39:36):
master the networking room.
So you never have to go back to one because the truth is if you can't articulate
the value of what you provide, when somebody is politely listening to you in
their working room, you have no chance online.
And I mean, that's why people, I mean, I hated the concept of online because
to me it was like, take a photo of your donut or your dog for something to say.
And then I realized it was because everybody was trying to be the loudest.
Like I'm still here. I'm still here. I have nothing relevant to say, but I'm still here.
(39:58):
And I just felt that if I could be super on point, then I didn't have to work so hard.
And so for me, I, you know, I've had the same online program for seven and a
half years and it still helps people.
I haven't created another one. Yes. We've created a little micro courses for
different needs. Sure. Sure.
Continue to develop it. Right. Exactly. We've got a platform called introvert
(40:18):
you, where I also have like my, my new invisible sales method for just sales
people that want, you know, just a sales process.
And mainly because I hate the world, the way sales works these days.
Like, you know, I'm so glad we could meet today. You know, tell me a bit about your business. Sure.
I'd love to, after checking out my website, what questions do you have?
Oh, I've done the research.
And so I teach people how to structure that to show that you've done your research.
(40:39):
Cause a lot of people have, they just, they, They, they just don't articulate
it. And so they get the halo effect of those bad salespeople.
So yes, I do have little trainings and things that I do, but what I,
you know, for me, what's next is really just about.
And this is why the new book is so important. Why I can't give away the title,
the preface, is very much about there are a lot of people that really embrace
(40:59):
Susan Cain's quiet book.
And I think it empowered a whole generation of introverts, which I love.
And I will say that it's not a counterpoint book, but it's a lot of people read it.
And even though Susan Cain outwardly said that she was a negotiator,
which is pretty much an extrovert arena, right? Or so-called, I would say.
She was good at it. And yet people feel like they can't negotiate as an introvert.
(41:22):
And yet they read the book and they went, I'm an empowered writer.
I'm an empowered this and I'm empowered that.
My book's pretty much going to be on the concept of, look, I get it.
We're empowered. We're quiet.
Great. But I'm not that quiet.
I'm concise. I'm directional. But the thing that I want people to believe is,
yes, if you want to be a writer, be a writer. If you want to be a coder,
(41:43):
be whatever you want to be.
And those so-called extroverted arenas are not out of touch or out of reach.
For you. And that's, that's what the new book is really about.
It's about helping people confront that reality really head on is that they
need to not do these activities, but know that they can and then choose.
Sure. Sure. It sounds like you're telling them to be true to their unified message.
(42:04):
Yeah. I mean, in my world, success in all these so-called extroverted arenas
is not about becoming more extroverted
because to me, that's a ticket to inauthenticity and exhaustion.
It's about leaning into your introverted strengths. But the thing that I find
is people either try to become more extroverted or they tell themselves they can't.
(42:26):
And actually, I put this on a slide. So often people, they convince themselves
they can't before they've ever dedicated enough time to really find out.
And I'm not saying that they need to. I'm saying like a lot of people don't
And by the way, the used car salespeople totally stole sales.
Like the definition of sales is really derived from the original Scandinavian term to serve.
(42:46):
I'm always good with serving people. I don't want to be a salesperson either.
So firstly, you have to get past the delusion that sales is a dirty word,
but you also then need to decide if that's what you want to do.
And for a lot of people that are under a degree qualified, sales is a wonderful
place where you can earn a huge amount of money.
And I mean, the world of entrepreneurship is too now, but both of those things
kind of feel out of reach for introverts.
And again, I'm not saying people should want that. I'm just saying that they
(43:08):
should decide after they're fully informed.
That's great. It's really important to make sure that people align with that
and their purpose and their message.
And you've done that great. So I really appreciate your insights here.
You've given me a lot to really understand and take as someone who identifies
really more as an introvert than anything else.
(43:29):
But I've used it in a way that allows me to still connect with people more genuinely.
I love the unified message. I really appreciate you bringing that here and introducing
to the group. So thank you so much for your time today.
This has been excellent. It was my absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, really great. So we'll leave it there.
And you definitely had me fired up with the message you had today.
I want to encourage all of you to stay fired up and go do something great.
(43:52):
Music.
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