#47 - The State of Brokerages in 2024 - The H&M Trucking Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What's up everybody and welcome to the H and M Trucking podcast.
I am your host,
Marcus.
Thank you so much for being here.
They also know me as the man in the white hat.
And if you're not watching this on youtube,
I'm sorry,
that reference makes no sense,
but it is just a shout out to my amazing custom H and M hat.
And uh I hear that there's gonna be some sort of merch giveaway in the future.

(00:24):
So maybe stay tuned to your company channels there at H and M to figure out how you can get your hands on some sweet podcast merch.
Uh So I guess it's time to get into it today.
Oh,
no,
it's not.
I almost didn't do my job very well.
First and foremost,
this week is when we're gonna welcome the new drivers to the squad.

(00:47):
And of course,
Sherry Vogler has sent me over those names.
Now,
I have to apologize to Sherry because I've been saying Sherry Vogler and that is 100% wrong.
So,
Sherry,
I know you're listening.
I really do apologize.
Uh You've been a great help to the podcast.
We love having you on board to help the team.
Please forgive me for mispronouncing your names.

(01:08):
I don't know,
1015 times at this point.
I,
I really,
I really sincerely apologize for that and thank you for putting up with me.
Uh Let's get on to it.
Who's coming on to the team?
Well,
how about a big H and M,
welcome for Michael Morphew.
He's a Hopper OTR driver.

(01:29):
Welcome aboard Michael.
Also a big shout out to Philip Tutton.
He's a Van OTR driver and last,
but certainly not least on this week's list.
We've got Gilbert Castro who's driving Hopper OTR.
Welcome Gilbert.

(01:56):
And if any of you new drivers that I've been welcoming each week for the last few weeks are interested in coming on the podcast.
Your quickest way to do that is to get a hold of Sherry or Eve over at the office.
They'll shoot me an email and bingo Bango Bongo,
I'll be in touch with you sometime in the near distant future.
So if you're out there listening right now and you're a new H and M driver,

(02:18):
welcome to the squad.
Happy to have you definitely be safe out there as James Fonda himself has said on this very podcast,
don't try too hard and uh yeah,
keep the shiny side up and we would love to talk to you on the podcast if it's something you're interested in.
So make sure you get in touch with Sherry or Eve uh what are we talking about today?

(02:40):
Because we just spent like the first three minutes of this thing,
not even talking about the actual content of this episode,
but we are going to do a little bit of a dive into the state of brokerages in 2024.
And what does that mean?
Well,
here across the last few weeks,
we've been talking to drivers on this podcast about some hot button issues.
We've talked parking,

(03:01):
we've talked A I trucks or autonomous trucks.
We've talked electric trucks and uh these are all big chains,
changes on the horizon.
We talked speed limiter legislation,
which sounds like it's not going to be a thing.
Uh,
but on the riding the wave,
I guess I will say of these like hot button topics,
one of the things I noticed was that the drivers,

(03:21):
a lot of the times are talking about one of their issues being delay at shippers and receivers.
And from that conversation came that a lot of times h and M's customers that they have and they,
uh they operate for all the time are Johnny on the spot when it comes to their uh,
arrivals and departures.
As far as shipping and receiving is concerned.

(03:42):
They get you in,
they get you out,
they get you back on the road so you can churn up some miles and make some money.
However,
sometimes the brokered loads don't always fit that bill and that's what we're gonna talk about today coming up around the corner.
I've got retired H and M driver,
Denny Stone.
He's been jumping on the pod with me the last couple of weeks.
I've really enjoyed having him around.

(04:03):
We're gonna jump on with him and our good buddy,
Tim Kruger from JFL Logistics to talk about exactly how,
uh J FL approaches these brokered loads and how they try to circumvent some of the problems that arise with brokered loads.
And on top of that,
we're also going to talk to H and M drivers,

(04:23):
Joe Baronet and Zach Beckman to hear about what they have to say about delays and shipping and receiving and brokered loads.
Now,
I'm not going to do too much foreshadowing here.
But let,
let's just say that Joe and Zach are eager to share their thoughts.
It's H and M Trucking podcast,
you're tuned in,
you're exactly where you should be hit that subscribe button.

(04:46):
It really helps us out and know that we're gonna pump out a new one of these puppies every single Wednesday at 5 a.m. for you to put in your ear holes.
Uh I don't have anything else to say in this intro.
Let's get to the good stuff from Omaha Nebraska to whatever lane you're driving.
This is the H and M Trucking podcast,

(05:07):
your host,
Marcus Bridges Trucking podcast as we discuss the state of brokerages in 2024.
I've got driver Joe Bonetti with me,
Joe,
welcome back.
Thank you.
Thank you Marcus.
And uh pretty exciting stuff here because we've also got a driver that you recruited some six years ago joining us on the air right now.

(05:33):
It's Zach Beckman.
Zach,
thank you for being here again.
Well,
so Joe,
you recruited Zach uh back when he first started at H AND M.
Yeah,
I met him at Blue Beacon.
He was uh working for Warner,
getting a wash out on one of his trailers and thought I had enough and tried out H AND M and came to work for horse and been here ever since and loved it.

(05:54):
So you had your belly full of Warner Zach.
Uh II,
I can't say I'm all surprised at that.
Oh,
that we working for Warner.
E everybody's got to start somewhere.
Don't get me wrong,
but it Warner was starting to gradually take a bit of a downhill turn about the time that I stumbled across,

(06:15):
uh,
stumbled across Joe and Joe gave me a heads up to come over here and Alaba,
I did kind of drag my feet about it,
but I haven't regretted it since getting here.
Awesome.
Well,
if I know anything about Joe,
the man speaks the truth,
that's what I know about Joe.
So,
uh,
I,
I'm glad to have you here.
Glad to have you both on the podcast.

(06:35):
And,
uh,
I just wanna get right into this today because,
uh,
you know,
over the last few weeks I've been talking to a lot of drivers as always and we've been talking about hot button issues,
things that are,
are,
you know,
ripe for discussion in the industry.
And I kept coming across one of these problems that just kept resurfacing and it seemed like every problem,

(06:57):
uh,
that we talked about whether it be parking or whether it be,
you know,
hours of service or anything like that.
One thing kept coming up and it was delay at shippers and receivers.
And so I started to look into it a little bit and what I found was a lot of the delays that you guys experience seemed to come with brokered loads.
And I just want to chat with you guys about,

(07:19):
uh,
some of the problems that you deal with because we're gonna have Tim Kruger from JFL Logistics on the show a little bit later and we're gonna hash out a lot of these things with him.
So,
uh,
Joe,
I'm gonna start with you.
What are your thoughts on brokered loads?
What are some of the challenges that you face when you're hauling brokered loads?
And,
uh,
just what are your general thoughts about them?

(07:41):
Well,
the first,
the first thing with the broker load is what's the truth and what's not,
what a broker load is,
is a broker is a company that's trying to make money from,
from scheduling loads from a shipper and scheduling loads from a receiver and making money on both ends if possible.
And the person in between really doesn't matter except as long as they can control it to get their money from one end to the other.

(08:08):
And that's what they're looking at to get that done so they can get paid and that's what they do.
They just look at the money that they're gonna make.
They don't really have any concerns about the industry except for the money on both ends,
which makes it very difficult and very much a difficult thing to handle it.
Sometimes it becomes pretty,

(08:30):
pretty chaotic.
Do you find that on your brokered loads?
You end up getting stopped up at your,
uh,
your drop offs more often than what you do with customer loads.
Absolutely.
Every time,
longer times,
loading,
longer times getting unloaded.
A lot of,
um,
a lot of things not handled,
a lot of numbers,
not there.
Zach will tell you,

(08:51):
Zach will tell you.
He said many of them itself,
you know,
a number of times you go to those places it'll take you,
you can always tell a difference between a brokered load and one of our actual direct customers that we deal with.
You'll,
you'll be there for a lot longer,
either getting loaded or getting unloaded.
And so if it's,

(09:12):
if you're not spending hours getting loaded,
you know,
you're gonna fight it on the tail and that's almost always a given.
But it,
it's,
I'm trying to think of almost any time that I've had a broker load and had the right reference number you walk up there.
Oh,
hey,
is this reference number?
It's,
you could have eight or nine numbers and it's a one number you don't have because it's the one reference number that they didn't give us.

(09:38):
Of course.
So,
so what I'm hearing here,
Zach is that you're,
when you pick up a brokered load,
you're almost guaranteeing,
uh,
I mean,
how certain are you that you're gonna be delayed?
Or it's gonna,
it's gonna take a lot longer than it would with a customer load.
Well,
for me,
what set in stone quite some time ago was,
uh,
unfortunately,

(10:00):
it happened here at H and M and that's kind of set my tone,
in my opinion with a lot of brokers is,
um,
I wish I could remember the name of this one I got when I got here,
there was a broker I had to deal with.
I picked the load up.
I was relatively short on time that day and went and got,
it was down in Texas,

(10:20):
got a couple of hours up the road up to Amarillo and the load had to be sitting up in Denver,
Colorado.
And I had managed to not have a problem at the initial pick up somehow,
but the catch was,
you know,
they wanted my number in order to be able to check on the load and you'll see where I was.
And this is what did me in on never liking brokers much was I get a call,

(10:45):
mind you,
it's a full 11 hour drive in order to get up to Denver from Amarillo.
But I was gonna make it happen.
I get up there and I was told I could deliver to the Safeway in Denver,
Colorado at 330 in the afternoon.
Come to find out they stopped receiving at noon.

(11:06):
On top of that,
they had called me after I had talked to somebody else and told them not to call me per se in the morning.
Somebody over on the east coast called me at the equivalent of 2 a.m. over in Texas.
And ever since then.
Yeah.
So that's kind of what set it in stone of knowing a lot of these brokers are just,

(11:31):
if you get one that's not a pain in your butt,
you,
you got very lucky,
but you're the moment you see,
it's not directly through us.
It's,
it's almost a guaranteed headache.
I mean,
coyote logistics is another one that I've had a couple of problems with.
I know a couple of other people have had problems with them.
It's just certain ones you don't really want to deal with.

(11:54):
Another great one that we all know and have hit and miss with the C A Robson.
Very big company.
I had problems with them over at Warner for crying out loud.
They double Buffalo loads,
they triple dip loads.
And then you get there and nobody,
yeah,
nobody pass word along that.

(12:15):
Oh,
hey.
Yeah,
by the way,
it loads already been picked up.
So,
because there's no warehouse space for it.
So you sit there and wait for them to put space somewhere on the floor to get it off your truck.
Mhm.
Which nobody can do anything about.
You can't blame them.
They weren't supposed to get a load.
But the broker wants the money.
So the brokers had different people that are working in the Brokers Association and those people are behind the desk and they get paid by how many loads they moved.

(12:41):
So they don't have no consideration of what's going on on the road.
What accidents have happened?
What are drivers going through?
What time it is and what his life is at the time.
They don't care,
they just want their money and they don't care about what's going on.
And then on top of that,
a lot of them want you to install something like Macro Point or one of those and have you install it on your phone,

(13:05):
which I don't know how many people are aware of.
I know a number of people that were affected by it was I,
it was your Macro Point or another similar one that you install on your phone had a major security breach.
And on NBC news ended up getting into people's phones and getting into their bank accounts and draining their bank accounts that way.

(13:30):
Um Yeah,
so they were selling their information to,
to these companies,
advertisement companies.
And then another person inside the advertisement company was taking this information of personal information to your phone and they were,
they were going into people's accounts and stuff,
uh criminals.
It was bad.
It was on NBC news.

(13:50):
So a number of these brokered loads,
they,
they open up the,
I,
I guess you could say a can of worms in a bit of a way that just you like for a great example,
one for main customers that we do a lot of business with was Windfield.
You know,
we,
we do plenty of business with them and,
you know,
we deal directly with them.

(14:11):
I can usually just roll up there,
you know,
find out if the load's ready or if it's not and,
you know,
try and play nice with them.
I might be able to get it loaded a little bit faster.
But,
you know,
if,
if I'm dealing with a customer that we directly deal with,
there's no middleman,
there's no extra phone call,
there's no extra,
I have to call,

(14:32):
you know,
call H and M and get H and M to notify them or uh you know,
some of the bills that are brokered,
they'll have,
oh,
we want you to contact us at phone number XYZ and then contact your company in order to make sure the company notifies them.
And that's like you find out later that even though you contacted both parties,

(14:56):
when H and M contacts the broker saying that,
you know,
hey,
for example,
need to reschedule an appointment,
you get to the customer that you're delivering to and come to find out and they never rescheduled it because the broker never rescheduled it.
That's why I've actually had to make phone calls when I need to reschedule because I just do not trust some of these brokers,

(15:20):
certain brokers I've dealt with.
I might have a little faith in them,
but lately I will still make that phone call myself.
And as much as H and M might get on me a little bit about,
you know,
hey,
that's supposed to be our job.
It's like,
it's not that I don't have faith in you.
It's that I know these brokers when you call them and tell them to schedule it still aren't gonna schedule it.

(15:43):
And then I'm gonna be the one dealing with the repercussions on the tail end.
Like,
no,
thanks.
I'm good.
Dropping back to,
um,
what Zach was saying about your telephone,
what they were doing is getting our phones so they can ping us making our phones,
their,
um,
their actual contact to us mobile in the truck when our trucks have,

(16:05):
uh,
um,
GPS already on them,
our trucks and our trailers.
Gps,
but it's so bad with them that our company won't allow brokers to GPS,
our trucks,
the customer will do it so that they can get a load.
And of course,
people who know what they're doing won't let them because they know what's happened,
you know,
and which is why we now have the macro point and everything on the tap that because a lot of drivers didn't,

(16:30):
were getting to that point of.
Yeah.
No,
I'm not putting it on my phone.
No,
it's my phone.
It's my personal phone.
It's my money,
my personal H and M should drive.
So it kind of sounds like uh communication is a premium with these guys and it,
it sounds also like the communication can be kind of poor from there.
And uh,

(16:51):
I,
I don't doubt for a second that you drivers,
uh you know,
pull your weight on the side of the communication that you're responsible for because obviously that's your whole day,
right?
If you don't communicate,
you don't know what's going on.
You don't know when you're gonna be where,
um but aside from just communicating better and maybe caring a little bit more about the driver,

(17:13):
how do you guys uh propose that some of these problems get solved out there?
What,
what can the brokerages do to do better?
Just on a daily basis for you?
Me for the dog,
the broker is a company that you hire to move your loads.
So instead of them having another person in the office,

(17:35):
these companies that regulate the loads because it's a pain in the butt because the truck is a truck,
they could say the truck's gonna be there and there's just an accident or the,
the trucks broke down or the driver fell asleep or there's always something that can happen.
So that becomes very much an expense to a company to have one person work the load.
So they use a broker to do it.

(17:57):
So then they don't care who the trucking company is,
it comes to getting the load and delivers it.
The broker takes care of all the logistics and that's what brokers do for a living.
But brokers have a bunch of people in the office that get paid by how many loads a day they get and all they do is scramble to get as much as they can in the day,

(18:19):
just like the stock market.
And that's what's going on at Ch Robertson has got about almost 3000 representatives and,
and just the broker phone.
That's a lot of people scrambling to just try to fill up and you can,
you can see if you zoom out there with 3000 people working in that company and that job doing 1015,

(18:42):
20 truckloads a day.
Right.
And how,
how could they ever,
even if they wanted to think about the driver and be a,
you know,
see the,
the human rather than just the,
the number,
they're still probably working with too many people to be able to be efficient at that type of communication turn around.
And if you look at the brokerage part of it,

(19:07):
ideally,
I'm not big and mind you,
I'm not a big fan of centralizing everything that's never really led to anything good.
But the idea if we could actually get a network,
an actual network set in place to where companies that are trying to get a load moved could put it up on board.

(19:31):
I know there's multiple different ones.
But if we could get a main one where these could be posted and take out these middleman brokerages that are,
you know,
trying to,
then snap it up,
snap up the difference.
Say they can move it for X price because that,
that's all these guys are basically doing is once the load is posted,

(19:54):
they pick it up,
then they say,
oh,
we can get it moved for price X,
they profit the difference and it helps drive down,
unfortunately,
drive down the cost of freight,
which is a big problem already.
And then they pocket the difference with Swift Warner CRE uh Snyder.

(20:15):
Any of these other mega carriers are able to move at,
you know,
almost a loss on a number of loads versus companies like H and M say I,
I'd probably be in the ballpark saying Morehouse and a couple of these other ones that are smaller companies are,
you know,
not able to play that game.
They take a much harder hit if they have to move for,

(20:36):
you know,
fractions rather than,
than a dollar $2 you know,
price difference.
I,
if we could get to the point where these companies could post the load and post the price or at least say,
hey,
it's negotiable between X and Y and deal directly with the company that's actually gonna move,
it,
actually move up the cost of freight again,

(20:58):
make it to where drivers are making more,
make it to where the companies are making more.
So they could hopefully mind you,
hopefully put some of that extra money that they're making to say offices like he did for,
you know,
our,
our office building or,
you know,
toward drivers or toward better trucks or better equipment,
stuff like that.

(21:18):
It,
it's,
these brokers in the middle are helping drive down the price because they're pocketing the difference and then they don't give two quotes so to speak about if we get stuck,
you know,
three or four hours loading or three or four hours unloading because we don't start getting detention until after that third hour in a lot of places,

(21:42):
especially if it's brokered.
A lot of places abuse the daylight.
Uh,
that three hour mark,
there's been a number of places I've been to that.
Well,
wait right up until 259 to get you out of there.
Like,
and I,
I had one,
it was eight pieces,
eight pieces took two hours.

(22:05):
I don't know how much the company turned as a profit.
But it's still like,
you know,
that's a long time,
just for eight pieces.
It's like,
come on,
if versus I could go to Winfield to city or I could go to a handful of our direct customers that we deal with.

(22:25):
Yes,
there are some that are busy and take a while.
They know me or they know the company and the,
you know,
the company,
each of them actually carries some weight with it and I could show up and I'm in and out of their full trailer floor to ceiling 30 minutes.
Less than that.
Sometimes less than that story.
I tell you have B trailer and out there in 15 minutes is the record I've had so far.

(22:49):
But see what the,
what the situation is.
We get a really good load going to California,
which we have a lot of them to Midamerican warehouse,
which are our wind loads,
which is chemicals for the farmers and for the trees out there.
That's what we mainly carry to this company.
And then when we get out there,
we need to get the truck moving again.
H and M does that driver can't just sit there and camp out,

(23:11):
it's got to get rolling.
And when we don't have anything mainstream out there with our little connections that we have in California,
we have to go to a broker and the broker knows well,
uh I got H and M here,
he got to move that truck.
So I got this load here.
I'm gonna go ahead and get him for this on this load.
So he's getting the,
the US,
a percentage of what we have on that load.

(23:34):
And then the customer that's paying them to get a truck to move their loads,
get paying them too.
And that's how a broker works.
They strew you on both ends.
They're the snake with a double head.
They got a head on both ends.
They're getting us on both ends and they're destroying the trucking company.
They're the company,
they're destroying trucking.
They're actually the bad evil in trucking.

(23:56):
And that's what makes a lot of drivers mad,
makes a lot of drivers uncomfortable and makes companies to really,
really strive,
um,
Swift,
had to,
had to close two of their terminals in the last six months.
They had to close them and get rid of so many drivers.
Over 800 driver Swift got rid of them because of the situation.
Right.

(24:17):
Yeah,
that,
that information came from J Fonda.
Wow,
that's crazy.
Well,
it's,
it's a weird race to the bottom that it kind of,
uh,
it kind of causes because it's,
it's like when Zach was saying,
you know,
the,
the prices keep going down because the brokers are,
they're out there trying to make a deal and,
and they're getting,
you know,
siphoning a little bit of the money off on both ends.

(24:39):
Like Joe was talking about there.
Uh,
it,
it seems like the only thing that could happen would be freight prices would go down.
And that's that,
obviously,
especially after the year we just had in 2023.
It's not really what we're looking for here.
Uh,
we need the market,
turn around and head back up into the right.
Don't,

(24:59):
don't get me,
Zach wrong.
Freight prices aren't that bad.
Freight prices are good but the brokers are taking the money because they're getting it from both ends and then the fuel is big us up.
Fuel is stupid right now.
It's a dollar difference on the east coast.
It is in the Midwest and another dollar difference on the west coast,
you know,

(25:20):
every single cent counts and when you can only break even you're not,
you're never breaking even the truck of business because you got tires,
you got miles and every mile on a truck is less time.
It's going to be out there making money.
Trailer too.
The trailer is aging and when you can't keep equipment after so many years,
it's not,

(25:40):
it's not viable.
The repairs and the maintenance just doesn't add up to the length of the time of keeping it.
So you have all of those things that we're up against right now and we're not the only ones,
we're a lot of freight companies out there having a hard time right now and there's a lot of it has to do with our,
with our politics too and what they're doing.

(26:01):
I was gonna say that's,
yeah,
very big point of to the point of obviously talking about the broker end of it.
And unfortunately,
driving the cost of it all down,
if we also take a look at what another portion of the issue is,
is obviously we're getting a,

(26:23):
a as we all know what's going on on the whole border crisis.
I'm not gonna be the dead horse with us,
but I'm sure we've all seen it as drivers.
We,
we all complain about the same thing,
you know,
the brokers and all these drivers that we're getting that are not here are not originally from the US.
But if we're also being extremely honest,

(26:45):
probably have absolutely no business driving a semi because they have a regular car.
You cannot read English whatsoever.
And part of the problem we see there is the brokers kind of play into this.
They want a load being moved and,
you know,

(27:05):
X speed,
basically,
they're,
they're anticipating a load being 1000 miles next day,
basically,
which,
you know,
if you give me two full drive days,
yes,
I can have it sitting there,
you know,
in two days,
you know,
two full days,
you know,
next day basically.
But a lot of them are getting to the point where a lot of these brokers,
we've actually lost couple of contracts to,

(27:29):
I wouldn't say this exact situation,
but a filler situation of they walk below there next day,
which requires it being driven by a team here at H and M.
Best of my knowledge,
we don't have team trucks.
So now we're,
now they're getting to the point where these brokers are one profiting a huge difference best they can and then putting the load out there for as little as they can to see if they can get anybody to bite.

(27:55):
And you get these people that are from the US that live,
you know,
almost virtually out of their truck by very different,
you know,
standards than what we here live by.
And they end up getting these people to drive for the equivalent of I,
I know some of them are driving for what Cr England was advertising when I first got my foot in the door,

(28:20):
which Cr England was advertising and I quote,
the truck makes 32 cents a mile with the truck was a truck,
meaning each driver made 16 cents a mile for every mile the truck moved.
So now you're getting these other,
you know,
individuals coming in that shouldn't be here or on work visas that are,

(28:45):
you know,
living by very different standards and end up taking these really badly brokered loads that are paying very poorly and it drives the price down,
it drives the cost down and it,
it causes companies like,
say H and M or Morehouse or Barlow or any of these are companies that can't quite operate on that fine line,

(29:13):
you know,
penny per mile difference.
You,
you're gonna start putting them out of business because you're getting all these people that can operate at next to nothing and live off it,
which is supposed to be inhumane anyway.
And a violation of a numerous of n,
of a number of acts.
But they're still doing it just to exploit because they know they'll take it and won't complain Because compared to where they're originally from,

(29:41):
they're very well off now suddenly versus they could be even more well off if we weren't having to deal with this little,
you know,
this little game that the brokers are trying to play with us.
You know,
it's,
it's like there's,
yeah,
and it's like they kind of know almost in the back of their head.
It doesn't matter how low they force the price,

(30:03):
there's always gonna be somebody that'll take it.
And so they're,
they are more apt to just keep shoving that price down,
uh,
to the bottom.
And that's that weird race to the bottom thing that I was talking about.
It's,
if there's one person out there willing to take those loads at a loss,
then they're gonna keep pumping out loads at a loss.
Why wouldn't they?
Ok.
So this,

(30:23):
this is what's going on.
They,
they get a load,
the broker gets a load.
All right,
that load needs to be moved because it needs to be to their contract,
the person that bought the load from this company by a certain amount of time.
So that's when and when it gets closer to the time for it to be there,
the price goes up.
But the thing is from the time the loads initiated,

(30:46):
there's no payment to the broker or to the trucking company that moved that load for 30 days.
So it's 30 days for the broker to get their load from the time that the job's done at 30 days for the trucking company to get their money from the time it's done.
That's why everybody's in a hurry to get it,
paperwork in and done so that they can get that money coming in to keep the flow going.

(31:10):
And it's a tremendous amount of logistics.
It is and it's hard to keep track of that stuff too.
I,
you know,
just in my,
in my short time as a,
as a traveling salesperson,
uh,
net 30 payments like that.
What you're talking about where there's a whole month between product delivery and payment where an absolute nightmare because if you forget one,

(31:35):
if one of them slips through the cracks and you're recordkeeping all of a sudden you're out thousands of dollars and that's a real big an $8000 load.
Yep.
Absolutely.
So,
there's,
it's,
this has been a very enlightening conversation,
fellas because I knew that there was problems out here with,
with some of the brokered loads and I I guess I didn't really understand the gravity of these problems.

(32:00):
It's something that it's,
it's affecting the market,
it's affecting the drivers,
well being,
it's affecting,
uh,
people out there that are working for next to nothing,
if not at a loss that,
that seems to cause ripples throughout the entire industry is,
I guess what I'm saying.
And another tidbit,
I guess about it with the brokers,

(32:21):
especially on the tail end or even so,
you know,
rare rarely with shippers.
Do you have to worry with this?
But mo most time this happens with the receiving end of it with a broker load more often than not is if you get there,
say right on time,

(32:41):
like your truck actually gets there five minutes early.
But,
you know,
you get there in line and by the time you get up to,
you know,
the actual check in window,
you're five minutes like,
you know,
per se.
But there,
there's a number of brokers that if you aren't there like on the dot Or well before,
by the time you actually sign in,

(33:04):
you will not get anything for detention time and you will turn into a working which is nothing and it is the few words that every driver absolutely dreads hearing because almost no matter where you are,
it is very rare or no matter where you are hearing that you're gonna turn into a work in is almost a guaranteed four or five hour minimum.

(33:29):
And,
and you're not gonna get paid for it.
And it's,
it's ridiculous regardless if it's your fault or not,
regardless if it's your fault or not.
There could have been a traffic jam that held you up for an hour,
an hour is 70 miles.
You know.
So it's little things like that.

(33:49):
The brokers there,
there are some brokers that,
like I've said,
they,
they are very few and far between and you,
you occasionally get one that you don't mind doing business with because they are too horrible to deal with.
But in comparison to us directly dealing with a customer,

(34:11):
uh a great example that I know right offhand,
I talked to the lady,
I believe that responsible for booking the loads was based out MG I grain up there in East Grand Forks.
And she told me especially during,
you know,
peak COVID and all that fun stuff that she was actually having to offer due to cost of fuel and everything else and due to the weight of the product,

(34:40):
which a lot of these brokers won't take into account,
she was having to offer somewhere in the five digits more to get people to pick up the load and drag it up there because of fuel expenses versus brokers.
Again.
They,
you know,
these brokerages,

(35:01):
they want it moved for as little as they have to fork out,
they can turn as much of a profit as possible.
And it's,
it's rough.
I mean,
that,
that's,
that's why I'm kind of thankful to be a company,
Trevor.
It's one less headache.
I have to put up with what we used to be last year.
We were doing great last year wasn't bad at all.

(35:21):
Really.
But the thing is what's happened now with this Trump did a really great thing.
So,
we thought of having a free trade agreement between Mexico and Canada.
Well,
guess what,
that's come back to bite us.
That's really hurting the trucking business in America bad because you've got these companies from overseas Russian,
uh,
African that are bringing drivers from overseas and into these other countries.

(35:44):
Ok.
Not into America and legally giving them license and they come into this country and they actually come up to the receivers and the shippers can't speak a word of English and hand them their telephones for translation.
It's just another part of the communication issue there.
It seems like calling for nothing.
They have raggedy ass trucks that never get washed parts,

(36:07):
hanging off,
taped all together and they're making money out here and they're screwing us and some of those brokerages themselves.
I'm not trying to harp on them too badly,
but some of them brokerages themselves.
Some of the people they have that will be the ones to call you.
And you could tell English was not their first language and exactly barely even their second language.

(36:32):
Like I get it if you're putting forth the effort and trying by all means,
I appreciate it.
But you,
you can tell with which I find annoying having to be here in the US that used to be the whole concept was,
you know,
you come here,
you,
you're gonna pick up,

(36:52):
you know,
our language,
our heritage,
you know,
stuff like that.
You,
you're gonna live,
you know,
you're gonna try to uh what's the word I'm looking for a similar in American and there,
there you go.
That's what I was looking for.
And you,
you get these brokerages and I saw a video of this and you,

(37:13):
you get these companies now that are going all electronic in order to check in everything and when you go check in,
you hit the buzzer,
it rings to some third party out in middle of absolute nowhere on the other side of the country that's like,
or,
you know,
on the other side of the globe and they're like,
oh,
what country are you in?

(37:34):
It's like,
yeah,
what do you mean?
What country am I in?
That's a question you don't get every day,
that's for sure.
How did this buzz you in Israel or a,
you know,
how did this buzz you all the way on?

(37:55):
And I just really,
and then they don't have like,
uh,
the big,
it was,
uh,
the video was of a guy that was,
uh,
he was a wrecker and he was bringing in one of their,
uh,
uh,
trailers that,
I guess it had some repairs done on it and he was just trying to get through and they didn't have anybody on site,

(38:16):
like no physical body on site to open the gate to let him in.
It took him like,
two hours to eventually get somebody there in order to let him in.
Like,
in with these brokers.
It's kind of the same thing.
You know,
if you're lucky,
if they're here in the U SS and trying to get through to them,
you've got to try and play phone tag with 30 or 40 other people.

(38:38):
And then like in my case,
when I first got here to H and M I had told the one guy,
hey,
don't bother me before time X he agreed to it.
Next person rolls in.
Not even,
you know,
12 hours later and they call me at two in the morning asking me if I'm gonna make it.
I,
I thought I was about to get fired from H and M because of what I told the individual because of how furious I was.

(39:00):
I'm not,
you can actually show I am not a morning person morning and you don't have to be,
you don't have to be as long as you're on time.
Zach is one of our number one drivers.
He's in the top 10.
He's proven himself over and over again.
He's used,
he should be used as the,
the model for the Samara when we first got it.
He was one of the first three people to experiment with it.

(39:21):
So,
he's very knowledgeable model.
I call it.
Well,
you're very,
you're very intelligent and you're very,
you're very disciplined.
I mean,
you spent eight years over in Germany.
Uh,
and,
and,
uh,
you,
uh,
uh,
fuel and bombers and in the air force and stuff,
you,
you're very disciplined if you're a very good driver and company really appreciates you.
So,

(39:41):
um,
well,
the,
the thing is,
it's,
it,
it's not gonna change until Congress does something about implicating these other drivers coming into the United States and,
and stealing the co the trucking company,
the trucking company,
the United States cannot live without trucks 24 hours down would devastate this country would devastate it and bring it to a screeching halt.

(40:06):
It would bring everybody to their prime example.
We saw a prime example about with the trucker convoy only a handful of years ago.
It didn't take much.
But I,
I think to,
to another point with these brokers and to the point with,
uh,
the whole government stepping in it much to,

(40:26):
I,
I saw part of the other podcast about this one with the government stepping in about this.
I,
if we could get the government to step in mind you,
if they go down with the speed limit deal,
that's not gonna end well for anybody,
but that's not gonna happen,
that's been voted out and I hope so,

(40:47):
but that,
that it's been voted out.
I,
I hope it never comes back.
But if,
if government steps in with it,
hopefully they can get it right.
Because that's,
you know,
a,
as even Reagan said at one point,
the worst was the worst nine words you could ever hear is I'm from the government and I'm here,

(41:08):
I'm here to help a,
you know,
the trucking industry is already kind of hurting enough.
And the last thing I want is,
hey,
I'm from the government and I'm here to hunt it.
Yeah,
that's a lot like that's a lot like sending Shaq to the free throw line when you're down two with only three seconds left.
You look at it and you go,
hopefully,

(41:28):
hopefully he'll make it a miracle because it would have to be a miracle.
That,
that video,
that video where he just lobs it like he on your hand,
lobs it off the backboard and then just slam thugs it.
That's what we could hope for,
for them to actually get it right.
You know,
because that was,

(41:50):
I mean,
technically it works.
Technically it works.
I mean,
it's a workaround.
Yeah,
it worked around and it works.
But,
you know,
do I have that much faith in the government to get that one right.
With the brokers.
I don't,
I don't,
I don't either,
man.
I,
I really don't,

(42:10):
but listen,
fellas,
I,
I love to,
I could sit here and talk to you guys about this for hours.
There's no question in my mind,
but we are running a lot long in this interview.
So I gotta let you both go.
But I wanna say thank you to both of you for coming on and sharing these concerns with me.
And I also hope that you'll both tune in uh to this podcast when it airs because we're gonna have Tim from JFL Logistics on.

(42:33):
And I'm gonna ask him along with,
uh retired H and M driver,
Danny Stone about some of the things that JFL tries to do to,
to help uh solve these problems for you and circumvent some of the problems before they happen.
Uh Tim's a great guy and he seems to have the driver's best interest in mind.
And so I'm really looking forward to hear how he competes with these problems at JFL.

(42:56):
Um So tune into that guys.
It's coming up right around the corner here.
Uh Joe Baronet,
thank you so much for being here,
my friend.
We'll get you back on soon.
Thank you and Zach Beckman.
Uh the model of an H and M driver from what I hear.
Uh It's so cool to hear that coming from the guy that recruited.
I mean,
you've,
you've rose all the way to the top,

(43:17):
my friend,
things are going well,
even though sometimes you're pulling your hair out out there,
just a spit,
a spit over it,
just a spit,
but we still work for a very good company.
We still work for one of the number one companies in this country.
And let me do an oversell job here too.
You guys got the best podcast in the country,

(43:38):
man.
I'll tell you right now.
I mean,
maybe a little bit biased,
but I think so.
Yeah,
I just wish our company would advertise it more to all our drivers.
We're working on it,
we're working on it.
I promise you we're gonna get this thing out.
We're gonna,
you know,
you guys are a huge part of it coming on here and offering all of the insight and,
and a peek behind the curtain of what it's like you guys are,

(44:00):
what?
Make this podcast great.
So,
I,
I really appreciate the time.
Fellas.
Please be safe out there on the road and,
uh,
we'll get back in touch with you very soon.
All right.
Thank you,
Marcus.
God bless.
I got retired H and M driver,
Danny Stone hanging out with me right now.
Uh,
Danny,

(44:21):
you have an extensive broadcasting career and there was something that jumped into my mind last night after we got done chatting that I have to ask you before we get to our interview right now.
Who's the most famous person you ever met while you were doing your broadcasting career?
It's a tough one because uh a lot of years in Austin,

(44:42):
Texas,
just about everybody in country radio and blues.
And,
uh,
most genres came through there.
Of course,
I've,
I've known Willie Nelson for years.
George Strait's guitar player played for my wedding years ago.
I knew George back in the eighties when he was really just getting going.
So,
yeah,
I've known a lot of people,

(45:02):
uh,
Charlie Daniels was a,
was a friend.
I really always thought the world of him.
He was just a class act all the way around.
In fact,
a brief story.
If we have time,
we were doing a bit of it for the boys and girls clubs and uh Charlie was on the Bill Ricochet was an up and coming group and they were,
they were opening for him and uh we're sitting on the bus and hear the crowd just chanting Charlie Charlie.

(45:28):
He's like,
what is going on?
Shouldn't ricochet be on state.
Well,
turns out there was a huge storm.
Their plane got,
had to be diverted and they were on a in vans trying to get there and Charlie just turned around and told the guys he said grab your stuff.
Let's go.
A man of his caliber with his history,
his stardom,
he went and opened for an up and coming act.

(45:50):
Not many would do that.
No,
they would not.
That's such a cool story.
And you know,
Denny,
I'm gonna ask you about a lot more of those as the days go on because I love hearing stories like that.
Uh How cool that you had George Strait's guitar player play at your wedding.
I played at my own wedding.
Uh Nobody would come out.
I didn't have any friends like that.
So,

(46:10):
uh and that other laugh you here joining us right now on the phone is Tim Kruger from JFL Logistics.
Tim,
we appreciate the time.
Thanks for being here.
Oh,
yeah,
thanks again,
Mark.
It's always a pleasure to come on and talk to you about free and,
you know,
kind how things are going.
Absolutely.
And,
and we're definitely gonna get into that.
Um,
I want to start out by asking Denny a question to give some context to our conversation here.

(46:32):
Um,
Danny,
I want to turn now from broadcasting to driving since you've got these two great careers that we get to,
uh,
draw from here.
What was your take on brokered loads versus customer loads when you were a driver?
Was there any difference between them?
Was one more of a headache than the other.
How did you kind of,
uh,
how did you navigate those waters as you were driving?

(46:56):
Uh,
almost without fail.
Client loads were no problem.
Usually in and out in a reasonable amount of time.
Product was ready.
They were expecting you brokered loads.
I almost hated you can cut this out if you have to,
but Ch Robinson is a curse word.

(47:16):
Um,
I hated to find out I had had a load from Ch Robinson.
They were,
in my opinion.
Absolutely the worst.
I'm sure there are good brokers,
brokers out there.
Um,
but it always seemed to be a pain and there's a number of reasons why,
but we can elaborate later on those unless you want me to just jump in here.

(47:37):
It's up to you.
Well,
the thing that kind of spurred the question was that recently we've been talking with drivers about delay at facilities and,
and many of them have told me that kind of the same thing that,
you know,
brokered loads.
A lot of the times are the ones that end up,
uh,
causing them some delay at shippers and things like that.
And that's kind of why I wanted to bring Tim Kruger on to this because I want to hear how JFL,

(48:00):
uh,
tries to circumvent these problems or if there's anything that they can do because I understand also that a lot of times drivers have a perception of something because they're not necessarily right there in the office,
a lot of the same ways that dispatchers and others will have a perception of what's going on in the road and might not completely understand it.
So,
Tim,
uh,
talk to me a little bit about what you hear from drivers when you get a chance to talk to them.

(48:24):
Do you find that sometimes the brokered loads are a little bit more of a headache for drivers than,
uh,
than the customer loads?
Um,
they definitely can be because you're throwing an extra person in there as far as communication goes.
Um So that's where I think a lot of separation can happen and a lot of miscommunication could happen.
So the big thing like we do,
for instance,
at like JFL,

(48:45):
like since we are owned by H and M,
we make sure we do the right thing by the truck.
We know what it's like to run a truck.
Uh I came from dispatch at H and M came from we on Transportation Warner.
I understand the,
you know what it takes to run a truck and how to price the truck out.
So,
and I know the answer to ask the right questions too before loading.

(49:05):
Hey,
is this load gonna be ready when we get there is product behind,
you know,
as it's staged?
Like,
do we know what's,
you know,
what's going on with that product when the driver arrives?
Um,
and also,
you know,
in turn,
like I make sure I talk to the driver,
talk to dispatch.
Hey,
what are you looking at for an eta like a solid eta I can provide to the customer.
So they know when he gets there,
there's less wait time.

(49:26):
Sometimes a lot of brokers like when you speak of,
you know,
the likes of ch or you know,
you,
you hear one of uh total quality or TQL or some people call it TQ smell.
Um You know,
they have,
they're very known for for being difficult to work with paying at like net 30 or even past net 30 to like net 60 net 45 to us at GFL.

(49:52):
We know that cash flow is important to a truck.
So we understand and that H and M does our accounting too,
which is fantastic.
Um We're paying carriers within 7 to 10 business days after delivery.
So we know that process,
we understand it and you know,
that's,
that's kind of where you come into that,
that huge problem of uh it's just like a huge communication issue with broke some brokers.

(50:14):
Um you know,
we,
we run into that like,
oh,
brokers are just cutting rates and,
and doing this and that and yeah,
there,
there is that just because of seeing like,
um,
you know,
seeing the market out there where there's a lot of trucks,
you know,
price will drop.
Um but,
you know,
we try and say true to,
you know,
we're there for the truck and,
you know,
being owned by H and M,

(50:35):
we don't have that debt behind us.
So we try and do the right thing to be the right type of brokerage to allow that service or service on both customer and truck side.
That's great.
And,
and do you think Tim that,
that just that being owned by H and M helps you guys circumvent a lot of those problems that other brokerages that maybe aren't so fun to work with have a lot of problems with like,

(50:57):
is that relationship?
Does,
do you learn so much from that business relationship that you obviously have with H and M that it just helps you be a better broker?
Oh,
yeah,
absolutely.
Like uh we utilize H and ma lot uh especially the agriculture and hopper side uh for H and M um we have a couple of customers that we are now working together on to own that entire side of the business.

(51:20):
Um You know,
we're,
we're telling customers like,
hey,
listen,
you're gonna have access to 100 trucks on the hopper side,
but you're also gonna have access to JFLS carrier side that they,
you know,
run through the ring of,
you know,
we're setting them up through RMIS.
So,
you know,
it's the right carrier,
you know,
it's the right trucking company that's on it,
that's hauling your freight and that's gonna on that capacity to make sure your freight moves on the people that say they're moving it on.

(51:45):
So we're starting to work together and partner together to provide that.
Um So that's how we see that fit um To keep that same service level that H and M has kept over for the last 30 plus years for us to really grind that into carriers to our customers as well.
Denny as a former driver here and Tim talk about the way the JFL tries to navigate these waters.
What are your thoughts?

(52:06):
It sounds good.
And like I said,
I'm sure there are good brokers.
I'm sure I ran brokered loads.
I didn't even realize we're brokered loads because they ran smoothly.
The only time,
you know,
it's when you get the bad penny is when it gets your attention.
Uh One question I did wanna pose to you since Tim,
since you have both,
you know,
dispatch and broker experiences.

(52:28):
Well,
I'll preface this by saying,
I always felt like you were treating me like the dumb five year old child.
Um You know,
you don't see the big picture what I would call in and question something.
Dispatcher understands.
Load,
planner understands,
broker understands,
but I'm too stupid to figure this out for myself and I always resented that.
What,
why do we have to be kept in the dark?

(52:50):
Is,
is it some big master plan?
And why couldn't?
For instance,
here's,
here's an example,
something that I thought of for years,
um especially if you're a driver that has successful experience.
You have a number of years,
you have 100% on time delivery.
You,
you meet all these criteria that they may set out.
Why couldn't they set up a I would say like a mini board or a condensed version of the board that y'all look at and say,

(53:18):
ok,
here's,
here's six options,
10 options,
a dozen options.
Which load would you like next?
Why,
why can't that be brought into the mix?
So the driver has a little more control over where he's going and,
um,
you know,
I understand there's a lot of factors that come in.
Other drivers need to get home and these other things.
But couldn't there be a condensed version if,

(53:38):
if nothing else,
say four loads,
say,
ok,
we got this load,
this load,
this load.
Which one do you want?
Um,
and let the driver have a little bit of control over his own destiny rather than just taking what is thrown at him.
Yeah.
Uh I can definitely shine some light on that for you,
Denny.
Um So from one brokerage,
I've worked out in the past,
um,
a lot of it was,

(53:59):
you know,
money,
money,
money.
They're trying to make the buck.
Um They're like,
hey,
do this load,
it's gonna be great.
They're gonna feed you up,
you know,
full of BS,
you know,
um,
the way I've,
you know,
from working at that brokerage to what I'm doing now and doing my own and,
um,
James gave me the,
the reins for that is,
you know,
I run one guy out of Illinois and he does,

(54:21):
uh floods up to Michigan,
Wisconsin.
Um Indiana,
um Iowa will go down to KC sometimes for me,
Ohio.
Um And I'll say,
hey,
Sam,
like this is what I got for you.
Um You know,
we can load in Chicago today,
we can go to Lansing.
I can load you ddgs back.
Um I could push this platone load out for you if you want me to,
you know,
let me know what you wanna do.

(54:42):
So my,
so how I see it is I don't run the truck that's with the driver.
So what he wants to do is all by him.
You know,
when I lease trailers out too,
I'll take cuts on my margin to keep that guy in the trailer that we're running because I know we provide good quality equipment.
So I wanna keep him in that.
So it's like maybe as dead as a little further.
Yeah,

(55:02):
I'll give him,
you know,
sometimes all the money in the load to get him um to make him happy,
to give it to him.
Um,
you know,
some customer or some brokerages.
Um,
we're a little small but we have plans to have our own load board to where we'll send it out to every single driver we're moving and say,
hey,
this is what we're working on today.
This is what we're working on tomorrow.
If you see a couple that piece up here,

(55:23):
you go grab them,
they're yours.
Um You know,
you Yeah,
exactly.
So we try and keep and want to keep that uh transparency open to drivers.
Um,
you know,
I at Warner,
they have a great uh program to developing,
you know,
dispatchers,
load planners,
uh everything under the sun.
And you know,
they,
they say,
hey,
these are people,

(55:44):
you know,
they're not drivers you,
you don't,
you know,
you treat them with respect.
They're like the people who sit next to you in the office.
So I took that to heart.
Any driver,
I talk to anyone,
you know,
any,
anyone I talk to,
I don't even see it as a driver.
It's like you have a name,
you're a person,
you know,
you're trying to make money as,
as I am too and let's have a conversation.
Um And,

(56:04):
you know,
some people are,
like I said,
there's brokers who are out there to make,
make a buck or there's brokers out here who want to do the right thing and be ethical.
Um And that's what I strive to do for JFL.
So,
you know,
I,
I hear your pain points.
I hear about it all the time when I would say wanna go visit family,
I've got family all over the country.

(56:25):
Um You know,
I originally would say,
hey,
when you get a load heading up such and such a direction,
you know,
throw it at me,
but I guess the dispatcher is overwhelmed.
They can't keep all of that in mind.
So what it came down to is I literally had to put in for home time just to stop in and have coffee with my mother or something,
you know,
um If I,
if I saw the load that was going that way,

(56:47):
I know I could stop in,
I could overnight there you have dinner with her and then still deliver the next morning.
Um That's the kind of,
of options and flexibility I'm kinda talking about and it sounds like maybe you're moving in that direction.
I,
I'd love to see that.
That,
that would be wonderful for the drivers even though it's past my time.
But still,

(57:08):
yeah.
No,
absolutely.
Um,
because obviously,
like,
we all have lives.
Right.
And you wanna make something work and that's just the,
the communication part.
Like I tell my team communication,
communication,
communication.
So,
um,
if the driver is like,
hey,
can I pick this up on,
on Friday and I'll swing this way and is it my,
you know,
friends or my parents,

(57:29):
you know,
and then I'll make sure I'll have it there by noon on Monday.
Yeah.
Cool.
Sounds like a great plan.
Or if it's,
hey,
like it's my mom's birthday on Monday.
Can I deliver this day late?
Absolutely.
Like,
it's free.
Like I'll,
I'll take the heat from a customer if they really get upset about it because,
you know,
you got a life out there,
you're by yourself a lot of the time and if you need that time,
take it for me.

(57:49):
It's like I,
like I said,
it's free.
It's gonna get there being a day late is fine.
But as long as that communication is there and I can share that with my customer all good and I wish more people would see it that way.
Um,
some people are like,
oh,
that,
that driver is lazy because you have to stop,
you like to do this so be it.
That's what he wants to do.
Let him do it.

(58:10):
Um You know,
I try and have as much flexibility on my freight as possible,
you know,
hopefully some other brokers can hear this and,
and kind of think that way as well for sure.
No,
I think that that's,
that's really important because it is,
it's like everything else.
It's fluid.
Right.
You're,
you're moving through this,
you're learning how to do it as you go,
you're,
you're adapting to whatever situation you're in and,

(58:32):
uh,
just knowing that you've got the driver's best interest in mind,
Tim,
I think is probably head and shoulders above some of the places that aren't affiliated with,
uh,
trucking companies and are just out there trying to turn over a dollar as a brokerage.
And,
you know,
I guess it makes sense that maybe they just wouldn't have,
uh,
the,
I guess the humanity that's involved in it.

(58:54):
You know,
seeing that person as a person,
like you said,
rather than a driver,
it's easy to delay a driver for five hours.
Who cares?
It's not easy to delay a person for five hours and it's all about how you perceive it.
Yeah,
absolutely.
And that's,
that's the one thing I love,
you know,
coming to H and M,
and that kind of drawn me to H and M was,
hey,

(59:14):
um,
when one of,
if,
if a driver on your board does call,
you pull up their picture,
we take pictures of every single driver that works at H and M see who they are and get to know them.
Like I,
I and Marcus,
you've heard me say this,
like I'm friends with probably everyone who's on my board at H and M,
I still talk to them to this day,
see what they're doing.
Um,
and then when they all load for JFL and I see them on it,
I call them,

(59:34):
I'm like,
hey,
guess why you're on one of my loads.
Like,
it's like I can,
I can dispatch you again,
you know,
and,
um,
it's nice to see and,
and,
and,
and I appreciate that and,
um,
you know,
a lot of these brokers,
you know,
uh,
not to go too far into it,
you know,
they'll,
they'll try and just hammer growth,
hammer growth.
They'll bring in anyone with no experience,
just guys to make a buck to sell,

(59:54):
sell,
sell,
sell and they,
they,
they put no thought into it.
It's,
it's,
oh,
I'm here to make a buck,
who cares what's going on on the back end of things.
And,
you know,
you could completely ruin a guy's day.
You could completely ruin a guy's life.
Like I take that stuff into consideration,
I want my team to take that into consideration.
Um,
even if I have to,
you know,
if he's,
if there's downtime for eight hours and they're paying on three of it,

(01:00:17):
I'll dip into my pocket to take care of them.
You know,
because I care about the driver.
I want him out on the road,
you know,
the US economy America,
we need drivers out on the road.
So I,
you know,
we,
I get it and I want my team to get that too.
Yeah,
that's great.
And you don't want a pissed off driver the next time you need him to take a load for you.
So it,
it stands to reason that you might dip into Tim's pocket a little bit,

(01:00:39):
try to scratch their back a little bit.
I love that.
Yeah.
Abso,
absolutely,
because there,
there might come a time where,
you know,
I,
I scratch their back several times and I'm like,
hey,
look,
is there any chance you could help me on this?
You know,
and it might not work for him,
but he's willing to work with you because you work with him,
you know,
it's,
it's,
it's a little bit like a relationship.
There's a lot of give and take.
Um,
and I think when you,

(01:00:59):
when it really comes down to it,
a lot of mutual respect.
Um,
you know,
II I make sure my team has the utmost most respect with customer carrier,
whomever we're working with.
It's all about respect.
Um,
so we make sure we,
we,
we push that into,
um,
who JFL is and,
and,
and what we represent,
where was the respect for me when you gave uh that,

(01:01:20):
that uh tracksuit with all the gold tigers on it to wear during the photo shoot that I had to take for H and mi I feel like I was very disrespected.
You should have just said,
hey,
I can't find it.
Uh I threw it in the river.
You could have said any of those things and saved me,
Tim.
But instead there's all these photos of me on the internet floating around in a tracksuit with a bunch of gold tiger's on it.
What the heck,

(01:01:41):
man?
Hey,
that's Grant.
Grant was like,
hey,
he Marcus wants to wear this and I was like,
I was like,
Grant,
I gotta wash it it.
It's like eight o'clock at night.
Yeah,
you gotta go check that out.
D It's hilarious.
But yeah,
Grant.
Grant said you wanted to wear.
Grant's a liar.

(01:02:01):
Oh,
yeah,
but you know what he gets what he wants and maybe I should learn from that a little bit.
So you look good at it though.
You gotta take that.
Well,
thanks,
man.
I don't quite have the figure that you do.
Uh You know,
I,
I've only got 59 and I'm almost as wide as I,
I am tall uh from some angles.
So the tracksuit was kind of a weird one for me,

(01:02:23):
but we did have a good time at the photoshoot.
For sure.
Back on track here real quick.
We got a little bit of time left here and I wanted to bring this up if we did have some time,
I've heard and been reading quite a bit about uh double brokerage schemes and I'm,
I'm not sure really how prevalent they are out there and,
and Tim,

(01:02:44):
I'm gonna come to you for that.
Ok.
Perfect Denny.
I'll let you ask it.
I'll just stand out of the way.
Um from what I'm hearing,
I'm thinking this doesn't apply to you,
but I asked prior to this podcast,
I,
I reached out to a few driver,
friends of mine and um had a few questions come up and David is one that wanted to and I've,

(01:03:05):
I've had this happen to me a number of times too.
You show up,
give them your load number and they go,
oh,
we just got that truck loaded,
he's heading out.
So they're double booking loads,
which is a huge waste of my time.
Yup.
Um So is,
is,
is that just something that's gonna happen in the industry,
like the airlines overbooking flights or is there a way to combat this?

(01:03:27):
So the,
the one for like double booking,
we will never do that.
The,
the only time we will find another carrier for a load that if,
if it's a just in time load and he's not gonna make it.
That's the only time,
you know,
we'll be,
hey,
we're gonna keep you on it.
But if we find someone in the meantime,

(01:03:47):
while you're unloading right now to go to make on time before you can,
we will have to book that truck and then pay that guy at to you for booking his truck and taking care of that.
Um We'll never book two trucks and say whoever gets there first,
then cancel other other one that's ethically wrong in my,
in my book and some brokers do do that.
Um The big thing we see double brokering is,

(01:04:09):
you know,
we'll,
we'll post a load on dat or,
you know,
bulk loads,
truck stop.
Um And we'll get a phone call from someone posing as a carrier.
Um And realistically they're not a carrier,
they're a scam.
Um We actually got hit by it uh when we first started because we didn't have the,
the right software yet to be able to watch that.

(01:04:30):
Um,
a lot of brokers use a website that is called carrier 411.
It's a site for only brokers can use.
Uh They can report people who are,
you know,
in the business to scam people.
Um And once they're reported as double brokerage,
uh it'll pop up on that MC as a double broker.
So all they're really trying to do is say,
hey,
yeah,
I got a truck,
I could pick up on time.

(01:04:51):
I can do this and then all they do is go repost that load and then sell it to another carrier.
Um So we have a software in place right now called RMIS that we use that um,
will monitor everything from,
um,
a dispatcher IP address.
Um,
their contact information,
everything ran through the federal government,
um,

(01:05:11):
runs it all through that.
But then we also use carrier 411 because when we post the load,
our first five phone calls are double brokers every single time.
Are you serious?
Your first five?
Yeah,
usually our first five are double brokers.
Um And then after that,
we start getting in,
you know,
carriers are calling in and it's legit.
Um The big one we're seeing now that you have to do some due diligence on now and they're getting smarter.

(01:05:35):
Um What they're doing is when MC numbers go out of business or drop these guys are buying them up and then saying like they have all this data that they have 50 trucks,
600 inspections,
all this stuff under it and they look legit,
but realistically they're not,
it was a carrier that went out of business like 56 years ago.
Um And thankfully with carrier 401,

(01:05:56):
we can look that information up.
See when it went out of business,
we can call the previous order owner and just ask him what's going on.
Uh And they tell us we caught one yesterday and I monitor that carrier and you know,
I looked two days later because I got a report in my email saying,
hey,
a report is just following a car that you're monitoring.
Three more reports came in that day of Bell Brokering.

(01:06:19):
So,
yeah,
it's,
it's rampant.
It's wild.
It's crazier than it's ever been.
Um,
it's getting more scams out there,
you know,
left,
right and center.
I'm seeing it more and more every day and someone needs to step in and,
and get it under control because it's getting ridiculous.
Yeah,
for sure.
I mean,
I,
you know,
I,
from what I've seen just,
you know,
browsing the,

(01:06:40):
the site's freight waves and transport topics and all these,
you know,
I see an article about it here and there.
I never would have guessed based on the amount of,
of literature that I've seen on it that it's such a big part of your day.
Yep.
Yep.
It's,
it's bad.
Um,
I mean,
there's carriers out there that are legit carriers.
Um,
not to drive.

(01:07:00):
They're,
they're well known in the industry but Landstar,
they're,
uh,
well known in the industry for double brokering.
So what they do is,
uh,
they hire out independent contractors for brokerages because they have a brokerage license and they pose as,
or they technically are Landstar,
but they're just brokering out your freight.
It's not actually going on a Landstar truck.

(01:07:20):
So when they call us,
I just go,
is this Landstar truck and trailer and literally 10 out of 10 times,
they say no so we just use that to work with Landstar.
But they're one of them,
they're one of the bigger ones.
They,
they have a ton of trucks like a ton.
Um,
but they're one of them that they hire independent contractors for brokerages that they sign on owner ops.
They run under that MC,

(01:07:41):
but it's not a Lance or truck and trailer.
So,
technically it's double brokering.
I mean,
I've never been one to call for more red tape,
but uh it seems like maybe a little red tape might help out in this situation a little bit.
It has to happen or more clients and load planners and not to offend you my friend,
but get brokers out of this thing that way if H and M's got the clients,

(01:08:03):
we don't have to reach out to a broker for the back haul.
Right.
No,
for sure.
Absolutely.
And that's what we're trying to do with the H and M and JFL tie in.
Um,
that,
you know,
our customers are their customers and then we don't take customers from them.
We just offer another uh trusted carrier if H and M can't make it on time.
Um So,

(01:08:25):
yeah,
yeah,
and cutting out the broker,
you know,
I get that.
Um,
but there's some owner ops out there,
there's are some smaller companies that don't have a sales team to go find a clients,
find,
you know,
find the customers to move that freight.
So what we offer.
And what,
you know,
a brokerage can help is I'll put the manpower to it,
find clients for you,
find lanes that you want and what I'll do before I even quote anything.

(01:08:48):
I reach out to carriers first and say,
hey,
I'm going for this lane.
Let me know if you're interested and give me a quote and then I,
I get it.
You've got slack times of the year when freight's not moving,
particularly agricultural freight may not be moving.
And so you've got to reach out to keep the drivers moving also.
Um Like the guy lives in Florida,
you got freight going into Florida,

(01:09:09):
but it's tough getting freight coming out.
I understand all these things.
Ok.
I don't want to run out of time before I get to two more questions.
Um I'm not taking this over.
Am I Marcus?
You run with it.
He had a concert and Terrine was on Stacy's board just like I was uh when she drove for the H and M and I,

(01:09:31):
I reached out and asked her and she said the one thing that she hated about brokered loads and I can agree,
Stacy was real good about not giving our phone number,
our contact information,
but a broker would get our contact information and every 468 hours they're calling,
they don't care if you're asleep,
they don't care what's going on.
They just need an update.

(01:09:51):
I'm like I told you my eta yesterday.
If it changes,
I'll let you know,
but leave me alone.
It's like a bad girlfriend just won't stop calling in the middle of the night.
Yeah,
there's some,
there's some,
there's some bad brokerages out there that'll,
that'll call you after two hours,
three hours,
four hours,
we don't ask for drivers.
So we ask for driver information on van load.

(01:10:13):
That's where we see the most fraudulent activity.
Um,
so we'll either a ask for a tracking link either if they use Samsara motive.
Uh,
people net whatever they use.
Um,
we'll take that and we're ok with that.
Um,
that gives us visibility.
I don't have to call and buck the driver.
I don't need to buck dispatch.
I could just watch it.
Um,

(01:10:33):
we also use,
uh,
tracking called Macro Point.
Um,
I don't call the driver ever.
We get the phone number from the driver.
We put them on Macro Point.
It sends you a link to the Macro Point app.
You download it on your phone,
you hit start and that's it.
It just tracks you,
it'll ping your phone every hour and I just see that you're moving down the road and I don't even mess with it.
It geo fences it all for me.

(01:10:54):
So when you pull into the shipper,
it marks you arrive.
When you pull out of that geo fence,
it marks you departed.
I don't mess with it.
I usually don't touch it.
Um,
you know,
there are times,
you know,
I do like talking to the driver just to make sure,
especially if it's like,
you know,
special instructions that are a laundry list long because I have a couple of customers that are like that,
um,
that I have to kind of just be like,

(01:11:15):
hey,
this is what's going on.
I just wanna make sure your dispatcher explained to you,
you know,
they want this,
this and this,
um,
and just make sure the driver's good with it.
Um So that's kind of the only thing but yeah,
I,
I hear you that that is,
that does get really annoying.
Um I don't know if I can say it on here,
but we run an owner uh uh laying out of Sio City,
going to Commerce City and he reached out to the driver reached out to my carrier up and said,

(01:11:39):
who's,
who's,
who's this Dan guy?
He's calling me?
He's like,
oh yeah,
it's Dan,
he's your new CS R he's just trying to get updates from me and he goes dad,
he's a jet called Nazi over there that and he runs like four loads a day for us.
So he's just like trying to keep everything in track and we don't have tracking on him either um because he didn't want to do macro point.

(01:12:00):
So on the agriculture side,
it's harder because a lot of these guys are like farmers and you know,
good old boys on the farm and whatnot.
And they're like,
yeah,
you're not tracking my phone.
Absolutely not.
So,
you know,
some guys are like,
yeah,
just call me,
I'll tell you.
So,
um,
to answer that question,
yeah,
we,
I try and do most,
or I don't have to communicate with the driver but,
you know,

(01:12:20):
the way I am,
I,
I'm a very personal person.
I just like talking to the driver.
Get to tell them,
you know,
especially if they're gonna do several loads for me.
Um,
you know,
always good to meet new people is the way I see it.
Well,
as long as you're not a pest,
I wouldn't be resentful of it,
but you know,
every time you have a shift change somebody new is gonna call me.
Um it gets annoying.

(01:12:41):
Alright.
Last question is from Mike out of Florida and Mike's concern was he said,
well,
ok,
we got a dispatcher,
we got a load planner,
we got a broker.
Why?
Why am I having to call the cons?
Like don't they,
aren't they earning their money?
Why should I have to take my time to stop and call somebody?

(01:13:03):
Um I didn't run into that a whole lot.
In fact,
usually I welcomed having contact information,
you know,
if I needed it,
but yeah,
it makes it easier.
You're getting rid of your plan or your dispatcher and the broker,
you know,
you're going straight to the source.
Um Well,
like for instance,
you know,
I made good time.
I was expecting it to take longer.
I made good time.

(01:13:23):
I could reach out and I could say,
look,
I'm,
I'm a few miles away.
I could either bring it in this afternoon or I'm good with tomorrow morning.
But,
and probably half the time they'd say,
yeah,
we're waiting on that stuff.
Bring it on.
Um,
but you give them the option.
I'm not saying,
you know,
reschedule my appointment or anything.
I'm just saying,
hey,
you know,
I could be there if you like.
That's a good way to put it is always,

(01:13:43):
we always just so a big thing we do here is we give the customer the option,
say,
hey,
I got a B and C option for you.
Let me know which one you want to do.
Um So we'll do it that way.
But you know,
when it comes to,
why,
why do I need to call the company?
Why,
why do I need to call the receiver and give him an eta?
So some of our customers.
So we do some apples,
we'll,

(01:14:03):
we'll move some apples and we have a customer who likes to talk to the driver,
the actual president likes to talk to the driver.
Uh He wants to make sure that you know,
whomever he's working with,
um knows how to get in there.
Sometimes it could be a little difficult.
He's like,
yeah,
I just like to talk to him,
just make sure you know,
we're all,
we're all on the same page,
so run smoothly for their operation.

(01:14:24):
So we have a customer like that.
Um,
you know,
for us,
I just tell them,
hey,
just let me know your eta,
I'll let them know when you're gonna be there.
Uh And if that changes,
let me know.
Um I usually call out to them.
I know H and M they tell their drivers,
I know for the Hopper side,
then you might be able to correct me on the van side.
But I know on the hopper side they never want the driver to call the cops.

(01:14:44):
Uh,
was it different on the van side?
They didn't like it so much,
but mainly it was because drivers were trying to reschedule appointments,
everything and just make it headaches for everybody concerned.
Like I said,
I would call,
for instance,
the main reason I would call,
uh a constant is to double check directions.
Um,
for instance,
uh my,
my navigation,

(01:15:05):
my Gavin navigation system didn't agree with Google Maps.
And I'm like,
ok,
so I would just call and say,
hey,
is it,
which is the best way to come in?
And if I did get somebody on the phone,
probably half the time,
they would say,
well,
where are you?
When can you be here?
I'm like,
well,
I'm due tomorrow morning at 10,
but I could be there this afternoon if you'd like.

(01:15:25):
Um,
that's the way that conversation would usually happen.
I didn't reach out.
I wouldn't call out and go,
hey,
you know,
I'm scheduled for Friday.
Can I deliver on Wednesday?
I never did that.
And I understand why,
you know,
dispatchers and load planners just pulling out their hair when people did that.
I,
I do that.
Yeah,
we,
we have certain customers where they don't want people calling in.

(01:15:48):
Um,
they like to keep that one person contact.
Um,
you know,
nor normally I just,
you know,
I'll,
I'll ask the driver before I even give their number out or I'll say,
hey,
is it ok if my driver calls you,
um,
or,
you know,
II,
I make sure I asked the right questions to make sure everyone's happy.
Um,
especially if it's a tough spot to get into.

(01:16:08):
I'll just be like,
hey,
is it ok if I just have the driver reach out to you so you can get him in,
like you said,
you know,
just to make sure you're navigating in the right way and you're getting in and the easiest way possible for you and your truck.
Um,
you know,
my reason I would call is if,
if it was,
say a late afternoon or evening delivery,
I would go to find out if they had a safe place for me to park because you get out of somewhere,

(01:16:31):
they turn you loose at eight o'clock at night and you're trying to find a parking place you're doing that,
you know,
circle in the parking lot at the local T A Yeah,
that was one of my stresses.
So that was,
that's another reason I would reach out to say,
hey,
you know,
if I park back in the back,
don't bother anybody,
don't make a mess,
you know,
um,
empty their trash.

(01:16:51):
But I,
I know that's,
that's one thing H and M does great about like when you go into shipping and receiving,
they are required.
If it's a new place you guys are going into or a driver is going into,
they call to get,
you know,
operations hours if it's firm cut off,
is it by appointment first come first serve overnight parking,
um kind of the layout of how it all works the best way to get in there.

(01:17:14):
Um And then we'll actually,
we'll route it in there as they're talking and we'll watch CMR and just make sure we're understanding the directions too.
Um So Ih and M does a great job of that.
Um just to make sure you guys have all the information possible going in there.
So it's,
it's nice and easy uh to assist you as much as possible.
But yeah,
it's,
you know,

(01:17:35):
you know,
back to the,
to the original question.
It's,
you know,
some people like to keep their customers close.
Um But some guys are just lazy and are like,
yeah,
call the content with your eta let that out and don't care.
I like to know.
But,
you know,
some,
some,
some people are some,
some brokers and,
and some people are like that where they just tell the driver to call and give an eta.
So,

(01:17:55):
you know,
it,
it really sounds like just hearing you guys go back and forth on some of this stuff,
Tim,
that you are with JFL trying to solve some of these problems that are,
that are constantly,
uh,
rearing their ugly heads and,
and I mean,
just listening to your confidence in the fact that you,
you understand what the drivers are dealing with out there and you are trying to take steps to make it easier on them.

(01:18:18):
Uh and,
and doing it in all sorts of different ways and I don't want to speak for the drivers out there,
but I think it sounds like you're,
uh you know,
you're trying your best,
you're doing your damnedest to make this thing run smooth.
So,
uh thank you for coming on here and sharing all of this,
uh this insight with us.
It's really appreciated.
Oh,
yeah,
absolutely.
No,
I appreciate you guys having me on and,

(01:18:40):
you know,
with any driver listening,
that's an owner out there.
You know,
please reach out to us,
you know,
Van Hopper Reefer,
you know,
we'd love to work with you and,
you know,
let you know what we have and what we have moving and I would love to get you the price that you need and keep you moving.
So I hope anyone's listening that you can plug that out for me.
That'd be great.
We'll do it.
Yeah,
just did the best plug you could give it.

(01:19:02):
That's Tim Kruger.
He's got a sweet tracksuit,
but he also works at JFL Logistics and,
uh,
we're always happy to have you on here,
Tim,
we'll get you back on in the future.
Talk about it again.
Ok.
Awesome.
Thanks Marcus.
Like I said,
it's always great to be on with you,
Denny.
It's uh looking forward to talking with you more and more uh as they get brought on here.
Sounds good.
Good to talk to you,
Tim.

(01:19:27):
All right,
H and M Trucking that does it for episode number 47.
Thank you so much for sharing your time with us here today.
Uh All of us here at the H and M Trucking podcast are very grateful for everybody clicking that subscribe button,
downloading the podcast each week.
Uh It takes a lot of people to make this thing happen the way that it does and the only one that you ever hear from is me.

(01:19:49):
Uh So I want to take a second real quick here at the end of episode 47 to thank especially my editor extraordinaire,
Mr Mike.
Uh That guy is a true badass and he always makes me sound way better than what I sound in real life.
So don't ever meet me in a room where I'm actually standing because you might be disappointed.
I wanna thank also,

(01:20:10):
uh our guys from Webb and Systems,
somebody who haven't shouted out for a very long time.
If ever actually Tim and Joshua doing great work there,
uh over on the youtube team,
of course,
we have Haley and Tyler.
Uh those guys always making me look better than I actually look in real life.
So listen,
this would be a real shoddy operation if it was just me,

(01:20:33):
but it's not just me and I'm very thankful for that.
So thank you to my awesome team.
I know that there's more people to include there.
I'm sorry if I forgot you today,
but I'll definitely get to you next time as far as H and M trucking is concerned.
All we got there is a kick ass company full of kick ass people.
Look,
you keep putting them,
putting them in front of me.
I'll keep doing my job.

(01:20:53):
It's that simple today.
I was blessed to talk to retired H and M driver Danny Stone,
who's gonna be joining us a lot more in the future.
So look forward to that.
And also,
of course,
our guy from JFL Logistics,
Tim Kruger,
it's always a pleasure to have him on that dude is so knowledgeable and he can talk.
I mean,
look,
I'd give the guy his own podcast if he wanted it.

(01:21:14):
Um I'm not really the arbiter of that type of thing,
but if he called me and said,
hey,
can I have one?
I'd be like,
yeah,
fired up brother.
Uh He's great and uh,
also Joe Baronet Zach Beckman,
two others that are absolutely awesome to talk to.
Uh I really appreciate you guys sharing your time with us here on the H and M Trucking podcast for episode 47.

(01:21:35):
And don't forget you're one of those new drivers.
We've been shouting out as I said off the top.
You want to be on the podcast.
Just get in touch with Sherry Vogler said it right that time or Eve Essy back at the uh terminal,
they will get you in touch with me.
Thank you all so much for being here today.
Stay safe out there.
Keep the shiny side up.

(01:21:56):
Oh,
and stay fresh cheese bags.
You knew it was coming.
Stop it with that.
Thank you for listening to the H and M Trucking podcast.
Please leave a review.
Subscribe and connect with Marcus over at the H and M trucking social media channels.
And if you're considering a job at H and M,

(01:22:17):
find us at HM trucking.com until next time,
stay safe and ahead of the curve drivers.

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#47 - The State of Brokerages in 2024

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#47 - The State of Brokerages in 2024