Episode 173 - Coming to a Comic Shop Near You!

This week, Kris and Dave look ahead at the February 2024 comic book solicitations. Which books have them excited? Plus, the Turtles at IDW experience some big changes, Madame Web looks weird, and new nerd commendations!

Nerd News

Madame Web Trailer released, looks weird as heck

The Winds of Change Blow at IDW’s TMNT Line

Byword Big Talk

February 2024 Solicitations

Nerd Commendations

Star Trek Voyage: Homecoming

Ahsoka

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
[MUSIC]

(00:05):
It's time for us to transform into Madame Web and get a flash of the future.
Comic book solicitations for the month of February 2024 are coming up on this week's Nerd Byword.
[MUSIC]

(00:26):
[MUSIC]
>> Ladies and gentlemen, it's welcome, episode 173 of the Nerd Byword Podcast.

(00:47):
Thank you so much for joining us.
I am Dave, I'm here with my buddy Chris.
And this week we're going to whip out some crystal balls and
figure out what's going to happen in the future.
February 2024 to be precise as we are looking at upcoming comic books released that month.
And what are we excited about for the month of February?
But first, as always, it's time for.

(01:09):
[MUSIC]
All right Chris, I'm actually really interested about this new story, so lay it on me.
So it's no secret how much we love the IDW Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series.
In my opinion, one of the most consistent, if not best, comic books on shelves since it stayed

(01:36):
view in 2011.
But the wins of change are they are a blow in at IDW's TMNT office.
Tom Waltz and Kevin Eastman or the primary writers for issues one through one hundred.
Sophie Campbell came in and took over primary writing duties with Waltz and

(01:59):
Eastman often serving as story consultants.
And it was revealed this past week as the time of recording that issue 150 is going to be her final issue.
So there's a lot of kind of speculation of what's going to happen.
This final arc is going to start off with 145, which just released.

(02:23):
I must admit that I'm a bit behind in my reading.
I fell off after Armageddon game, which was great, consistently crushing it.
And so there's a lot of, I guess, speculation and
just standing around wondering from TMNT fans of where we're gonna go from here.

(02:47):
Who's going to take over?
Are we gonna go back to Tom Waltz?
There's a lot of uncertainty at this time.
Is this the end for this run?
150 is a nice neat number.
Is this where it ends and then we wait for a relaunch or something.
But I just wanted to take a moment and just kind of tip of the cap to Sophie Campbell

(03:11):
and her contributions to the fandom, to the comics.
It's definitely some really bold storytelling.
There's some really great allegories.
There's some really great subtext and symbolism in these 50 issues
that she's brought to the franchise.

(03:32):
And it's something I'm really, really grateful for.
I wish for the best in her future endeavors or whatever.
She's got coming down the pipe.
She said this is almost certainly that she will be back writing
Turtles in some former fashion.
But I'm just kind of standing around like, okay, what's next?

(03:55):
It's kind of, it's a bittersweet moment because this is one of those series that I've just
enjoyed so much and I just really hope it's not coming to an end.
Yeah, and I think there's sort of a Jason Tangerine pull story that I think we're gonna have
to consider when we are talking about, you know, what the future might hold for IDWSTM and T-Series,

(04:16):
which has been consistently one of my favorites as well, even though I've fallen behind a little
bit on it.
And that is that IDW as a publisher is in just a ton of financial issues.
You know, I mean, they're really, really struggling.
I think in September, there was a report that they were running like a $1.28 million deficit
for the third quarter of the fiscal year that stopped at the end of July, I think.

(04:42):
So they've been hemorrhaging just a ton of money, rising printing costs, lower sales.
IDW is really going through it as a media company.
They've not been able to try to develop anything, you know, because of the like for, you know,
other media, like TV or movies because of the Hollywood strike, obviously.
So that was pretty much just laying there.

(05:04):
So IDW is having significant issues.
So if that's the case, maybe there's something else afoot here, you know, maybe they're winding
down or reducing their comic book line or something, it's really difficult to predict.
But there are, there are, you know, underlying issues at the publisher.

(05:24):
I really hope it's not the end of the line because I think consistently this has just been
my favorite interpretation of TMNT from all the various interpretations and adaptations
we've gotten just feels like such a strong synthesis of some of my favorite elements from various
adaptations over the years.
And I would love for it to continue on.
That being said, if they're really in the market for, you know, TMNT writers, I would say Chris

(05:46):
and I can throw our hat in the ring.
IDW give us a call, you know, we're standing by.
Yeah, it's tough because there is at the end of the day, it is a business.
And that could be the final nail in the coffin, so to speak.
Now, are they willing to sell publishing rights of these characters to, you know, another publisher?

(06:12):
That remains to be seen.
But I mean, that's kind of tough to argue anything else when you're losing that amount of money.
All right.
Have you hinted at it in the teas and the Sony live action spider adjacent film debacle continues?
Spider adjacent.
I love that.

(06:33):
I don't even know what to say to this.
Sony continues to try to make movies about Spider Man characters without actually involving
Spider Man.
And we have seen time and time again how those adaptations have kind of pardon my friend's
year, but pooped a bit, right?
So here we are, you know, a Craven and more be a slater and we're getting a mad at web movie

(06:56):
and the first trailer as a recording just released day or two ago.
And I'm honestly unsure what I just saw.
I was kind of speechless after I watched it and not in a good way.
It amazes me to know and how many people online are pooping on something like the Marvels,

(07:17):
which I thought was a perfectly fine movie.
And then this thing comes along and just like shows you how low the bar can go apparently.
I really hope that there's a good movie in that, but the trailer did not do it any favors
from clunky exposition to incredibly flat delivery to really, really strange choices as
far as interpreting characters.

(07:39):
So here we get a madem web who is experiencing flashes of the future involving three teenagers
who are all going to be spider-powered heroes in the future and a strangely young and
hot Ezekiel is running around in this character from the J. Michael Strzysinskiy run of Spider-Man

(08:01):
wearing a dollar tree inspired knockoff Spider-Man costume, which is absolutely horrendous.
And really weird choice considering this is the guy who preferably runs around on rooftop's
barefoot and is supposed to be just no dude.
He was old man Logan before old man Logan.
Exactly.
And so apparently the underlying plot of the movie is that he is trying to prevent these

(08:26):
three teenage girls from becoming spider-powered heroes for whatever reason.
And madem web is trying to use her future seeing powers to stop him.
It's just very, very odd as a fan of a lot of the source material I think Ezekiel was a

(08:47):
really interesting character especially in some of his earlier appearances.
That's kind of gone out of the window here is very, very strange character.
Madem web is just very, very oddly portrayed here by Dakota Johnson.
I don't know if they just really picked the worst takes for this trailer but like I said

(09:07):
earlier her delivery is incredibly flat.
Like does very little reaction going on into anything going on around her or anything it's
very, very odd.
There's like one interesting moment in the whole trailer that's when she tells those three
teenage girls that she can see the future and one of the girls throws a rock at her and
says didn't see that coming.

(09:28):
And that amused me mildly but other than that this is just a very, very odd trailer.
So like I said I hope that there's a good movie in this but the trailer did not do it any
favors it feels very, very, very strange.
What do you think Chris?
Yeah it's first of all it's not been a great week for Sydney Swini who is I honestly don't

(09:53):
understand the hype around.
That's just me personally though.
So first this trailer drops and then her trailer with this, her other movie gets mocked
by Nathan Fielder who's a comedic genius and I'll follow to the ends of the earth and
Emma Stone.
But it's produced the new meme Dejure with, you know I was, he was with my mother in the

(10:20):
Amazon researching spiders before her death.
It's one of the strangest trailers and Sony continues to outdo themselves when it comes
to like I said live action spider ray Jason films like stick to the spiderverse movies,
the animated whoever you've gotten charged doing that is doing a great job.

(10:41):
But everybody else just I'm speechless at this point.
Like someone said it's like more be as for the ladies.
I'm just lost.
The first venom was tolerable.
The second one was unwatchable.
I refuse to watch more of this.

(11:02):
I don't know if I'm going to I probably not going to watch this like why punish myself
with like bad bad bad bad movies and this is, this is why it's so funny to me that people
are there are so many people that are just waiting for the death throws of the Marvel Cinematic
Universe when this is the alternative this is what you prefer.

(11:26):
Yeah, miss me with that.
And you can have it like I'm so I'm so good like I don't need any of it.
Yeah, it's sad because I think for all the criticism that sometimes is leveled against
MCU as far as comic book adaptations goes.
I think they're pretty much superhero.
I still the best game in town even when they miss fire.

(11:47):
They make I will watch and I will watch an endless loop of quantumania for a week than
any of this.
I will I will freely admit though that I will probably watch this just because of you
know, absolutely rampant curiosity of how badly they pooped a bit like more be as was
essentially a meme like you you knew that that you know that there was nothing going to

(12:10):
be redeeming about that movie from the casting to the trailer like that.
There was just nothing good to see there.
I feel like you know like I had zero interest.
But here I feel like I'll probably check it out just because I want to get a sense for
the shape of the train wreck I guess.
And plus all of these might make a really interesting podcast episode for us to try to

(12:32):
fix this particular movie.
Well number number number one.
I'm I'm reminded of that meme that was like I support women's rights and women's wrongs
like this one's you know female empowerment to make crappy movies just like the men do.
But like also at the same time like I view all of these industry insiders with comic book

(12:58):
movies with the most criminal offensive of side eyes like I think I like just I can't
I can't stand them.
I will wait for the official announcement all of these.
Oh this person's Mr. Fantastic as a time of recording Pedro Pascal is supposed to
be Mr. Fantastic.

(13:19):
I will wait until I you know see the trailer or something because like all of these up and
down rumours of everything.
However there are rumblings that this Tom Holland lead Spider-Man 4 is going to tie into
all of these movies which make of that what you will.

(13:41):
No no thanks.
Thanks I hate it.
I'm going to be honest like I'm not I'm not uninterested in a Tom Holland lead Spider-Man
4.
Okay like I think a clean break from that first trilogy and you know starting something
new you know and taking them into some new directions and stuff would be incredibly

(14:03):
interesting to see.
It would also be like the longest continuing story I guess we've had of a singular Spider-Man
so kind of like you know putting down your foot and saying okay this is a line in the
sand and now we're going to shift you know his whole circumstances is how life has changed
what can we do with that you know from story perspective I think that's interesting but

(14:24):
if you're going to try to throw you know venom in this and and and Craven and and more
be us and and Madam Webb and I don't know man like I think at that point you're just like
really pooping the bed.
Have we not learned our lesson with over stuffed available ends with a single hero?
No no apparently we have not there's a lot of lessons we still haven't learned one of them

(14:48):
should be Sony should stick to animated superhero features.
That's a lesson I'm still waiting for like I just want to yeah I am not one of these people
that is actively rooting against any of these movies is the thing you know like I just I want
good comic book adaptations you know but there is a point where you cannot divorce a character

(15:10):
from their context and I think that's one of the struggles that I even had with venom and
I know that venom has its fans but divorced from the context of this suit you know bonded
with Peter Parker and he took it off and the whole background with his beef with Eddie
Brock and all that that is so quintessential to what venom is that I found venom to be
fairly unrecognizable both both as a as a character and as a story when I watch the movie

(15:36):
and I think Craven in a lot of ways is is the same way more be as is the same way there's
an intrinsic connection to the Spider-Man mythos you know it's like making a Lex Luthor movie
without Superman in it you know like at some point you need to stop trying to to disconnect
these characters from their larger context because ultimately you lose something really

(16:01):
really intrinsic and important to those characters and I think that's that's ultimately really
the problem with what Sony is trying to do you know if you would take for example something
like silk okay I think you can make a decent silk standalone movie without Spider-Man
making appearance and even just like obliquely referencing them you know I think you can

(16:25):
probably pull that off of the character like silk because her stories in a lot of ways
not entwined with Peter Parker's but more like parallel I guess if that makes sense right
so I think something like silk can work as a stand blown adaptation especially you can
divorce yourself with that gross fare month stuff Dan slot was trying to please please please

(16:46):
as soon as they dumped that the character came became 50 million times better but then when
you're dealing with with villains for example right like Craven as soon as you divorce
that villain from the context you're losing what makes that villain interesting you know
here's this hunter who's decided he's gonna hunt the Spider-Man you know like it's a great
great hook but as soon as you remove the Spider-Man element from it it's not and so I think Sony

(17:12):
just needs to learn a lesson here really really badly that some of these are not working and I may
be wrong I may be putting my foot in my mouth and madden web turns out to be a really good movie
and I need to eat lots and lots of crow and I will gladly even because I want good movies but
this trailer was not convincing Chris now and everything that I get from the Sony live action

(17:34):
adjacent films is it's a lot of edge lority type stuff like what if we did this differently
and what if we marched to the beat of our own drum and when you when you give people free
rain to do that you just realize after a while you're just kind of off on your own path and your
lost now and that's where these movies seem to be leading they're just lost like what is this what

(17:57):
are we doing here like I'm just I'm not I'm not here for it it's so different almost that it's
not really even an adaptation you know it's not really an even a reinterpretation it's just
over here on its own little place very very odd all right folks there you have it that's it for

(18:18):
nerd news whatever your thoughts on the madden web trailer and what are your hopes for the future of
the tm and t series at idw a find us on social media at nerd bar word or individually at that
nerd day and at that nerd chris we'd love to hear what you're thinking let's take a quick break
after we're back it's time for a quick peek at our favorites from the February 2024 solicitations

(18:47):
and we're back and it's time for more solicitation as we take a look at February 2024 in this week's
it is always interesting to peruse what is coming up in the world of comic books what catches our eye

(19:11):
and what we cannot wait to read so as we sometimes like to do chris and I both picked our top three most
interesting upcoming comic books from the February 2024 solicitations and we want to talk a little
bit about what's got us hyped about them and we're going to start with make mind marvel chris chris
what was your first pick from the solicitations listen everything that's coming out about ultimate

(19:36):
spider man and the ultimate universe at large has got me hooked line and sinker so I'm gonna I'm
gonna cheat a little bit because both my initial one if you tell me to pick one I'm gonna go ultimate
spider man number two the solicit reads the most surprising spider man story of the 21st century

(19:56):
continues spider man faces his first supervillain jay jona jameson's quest to uncover who is really
pulling the strings of this new ultimate universe leads to a shocking revelation and new york city
welcomes its newest hero the green goblin of course written by Jonathan hickman art by marco

(20:17):
chiquetto and everything that chiquetto has like released when it comes to even like the
like the the design pages absolutely knocks it out of the park these covers are spellbinding like
they're incredible um and i'm just really here for exploring this kind of storyline them

(20:40):
it's weird because a lot of that solicitation right there that it just read feels
kind of in the same spirit of the original ultimate spider man you have j j j who's like this
evolved updated version of the character and i'm hoping that at least from what this sounds like
sounds to be in the same kind of context of that um and then you know this this green goblin look

(21:09):
which is it's definitely unique i don't know how i feel about it they kind of went full power
ranger um but kind of picturing him as this like hero and obviously there's gonna be more nuance to
that like behind the scenes who is goblin i'm hearing rumblings that it's hairy um i don't know if

(21:33):
that's confirmed or not so i'm just i'm just ready to take this dive and read all of this but you
know i also don't want to neglect the fact that i'm also super here for ultimate black panther
which i did not read the original ultimate black panther i know that one of my new favorites moon
night was like this adversarial and like taking control of the continent of africa but you know brine hill

(22:00):
has really won me over with blade which i need to get caught back up on um and then stuffno could sell
me on art everything looks awesome there um this suit is growing on me especially this second main cover
where he's seated in the chair um so i'm gonna go ahead and give this solicitor for this too but the
new ultimate black panther in the wake of ultimate invasion conchew and raw the force known together

(22:25):
as moon night are seeking to expand their brutal control of the continent of africa in response
the lone bulwark against them the isolated nation of akonda will send forth its champion
its king the black panther from the creative minds of brine hill blade killmonger and stuff noca
selly xman red and avengers comes a bold new take on the world of black panther in wakonda so i think

(22:47):
ultimate universe did a lot of convincing um ultimate invasion i and i enjoyed more binging through
and leading straight into ultimate universe one and i'm kind of sold on this hookline in sinkerman
yeah as we've talked about previously ultimate universe number one is the thing that kind of
brought it home for me that this you know um this could be a really special line um so i'm

(23:11):
i'm really really here for this i'm very excited for the spider man book i'm very interested in the
notion of a peter parker who comes to the role of spider man later in life i think that's really
really really cool um i think there's a lot of interesting story potential for the kind of
stories that we're not getting um you know in in in the in the mainline um universe and something

(23:35):
that is also significantly different from the previous ultimate spider man i think there's just a
ton of potential here um i'll also say that i really like the the the hook for um for ultimate black
panther um sort of this underdog story even though he is you know a king and a superhero he's really
the underdog you know can't to kind of trying to stop this unstoppable force from taking over the

(23:58):
entire african continent i think there's something something really interesting about that um i
the suit has not grown on me i just i mean it it feels just just still way too busy somehow
the foot it's the foot cause i think it's the foot cause i will also say though that uh when you
look through the variant covers that there are some covers that i think the suit works better

(24:21):
than on others um so i think it really really depends on the artist and how you know artist
ultimately um ultimately interpret interpret this particular design i guess is the best way to put it
um but i'm very very excited for all things ultimate uh and i can't wait to dive in i really
am very excited for the stuff christ dude your first one to uh completely caught me off guard and

(24:45):
i'm here for it this is what i do my friend i find the weird stuff um so it's no secret that both
christ and i have become big big fans of ram v for various series that uh you know he's put out
over the the last few months and we're getting another series written by ram v this one from image
comics um first issue in february of 2022 it's called one hand um and here is the official solicit text

(25:14):
mini series premiere neo novella detective ari nasser is about to retire with an
enviable record until a brutal murder occurs bearing all the hallmarks of the one hand killer
which should be impossible since ari already put him away not once but twice in the years before
what follows is a deadly cat and mouse game as a ari persues is quarry down the rain soaked streets of

(25:37):
neo novella ari will stop at nothing to unravel the secrets and cypress of this case but each revelation
only leads further into the dark heart of his future of his future metropolis and ari's own beleaguered
soul grippingly written by a ward of enraider ram v with hauntingly atmospheric art and covers by
loren's cambell and lee law fridge one hand is a mini series that will keep you guessing until the

(25:59):
very end so two things to say here a number one ram v i mean if you need further convincing after
hearing ram v then i doubt your taste somehow but secondly beautiful beautiful art like really
sort of noir soaked absolutely greedy beautiful beautiful art i'm very very hyped for this one i

(26:22):
love a good detective story i love the noir genre all the tropes and trappings of that um
i'm just really really interested in this one this is probably the thing that caught my attention
the most and i'm totally psyched to give this one a look crisp yeah the news the news story that i
found for this from screen rant um said that the art is moody and rain soaked and i couldn't agree more

(26:46):
like this this feels like the best of the the batman when he's being a detective um what what
i've heard great things about rumvees to work on detective comics which i plan to check out
when i'm feeling ambitious uh to start a completely new title i've never read before um

(27:06):
but yeah like this just looks so great i'm such a fan of like noir detective stuff and
like you said ram v like uh one of the one of the top in the game right now
yeah absolutely and you know image is always good for for a nice surprise a good little mini series
this one's supposed to run for five issues um and i really really enjoy um how image uh you know

(27:32):
manages to do the self contained in these stories still even though they're such a you know massive
publisher so i'm i'm really excited for this one art criss uh no surprise we're keeping it in the
spidey family what you got next so uh they're getting the band back together pun intended spider punk
one of four for this humani series uh written by codi ziggler uh written by Justin Mason who

(27:56):
previously did a spider punk series that i nerd commended um i'm reading this elicit here on core you
wanted more in a world without Norman Osborne spider punk reigns the st no victory lap though as
hulby brown and team try to rebuild society just in hammer and dr auto octavius have other plans
like introducing the world to the spider slaying sentinels codi ziggler maus mara spider man

(28:22):
and just in mason spider man 2099 dark genesis reunite to bring the brooklyn boy back with the whole crew
you know and love grab your boots your instruments your amps and let's go and uh i mean codi ziggler is
just one of those writers that if it is similar to ram v very different storytelling aesthetic

(28:42):
but if codi ziggler's attached i'm immediately interested um that first spider punk series was super fun
super imaginative with with alternate universes you there's a lot a lot of times we can get kind of
trapped in the the status quo if you will and everything is just so similar and there's no real ambition

(29:06):
there's no real adventure is kind of spirit in reimagining things and that is thankfully very very
different in in the spider punk you know universe and and so i'm very very excited to see where we go
here we got a variant cover by maria wolf who's one of my babes in the game right now um i mean

(29:28):
easily the breakaway star from the across the spider verse film was hoping brown like everybody
was in love the the animation style was just incredible captivating um and so i'm excited to
continue on this journey of learning more about this character that i that i love yeah you know i'm
i'm not sure because i've not read a lot of spider punk how similar the character in the comics is

(29:52):
to the one we saw in spider verse um but if it if it is you know a similar situation and i'm
definitely here for it and you know really interested in this one um i i will say as a as a dc fan i guess
i've had to get used to this but sometimes it's incredible how large and expansive all these

(30:12):
variations of various characters get like how many spider characters do we have how many flashes you
know at least with green lantern it's built into the premise right but um it's it's kind of it's kind of
nuts if you think about it how many spider characters we have these days if you go back what 20 years
it this was not the shape of things back then um i wonder for a you know a lot of people talk about

(30:36):
like superhero fatigue but i do sometimes wonder if we're gonna eventually get like multiverse fatigue
i guess because i mean this is also a multiverse character is like spider Gwen right yeah i wonder
if we're gonna reach a saturation point with multiversal stories it's interesting i think
i think for me because there was another one that i kind of had my eye on like the edge of spiderverse

(30:58):
simply for no other reason that one of the covers has a cyclops like spider and so it like i mean
cyclops is one of my preeminent like all-time comic book characters and so like that's a immediate
gonna grab my attention but the same time like you said i think i'm just gonna pick and choose like
hmm maybe this is a bit too much for me and i set my own limits on how much spiderverse

(31:24):
do i really need to consume um but at the same time like if if the story is good i'm gonna be there
yeah absolutely man all right so i saw the jenny fris and cover for this one and it absolutely
had me head over heels i'm one of those weirdos who's not always excited when a
a actor kind of crosses over into like hey i'm gonna i'm gonna write some comic books these days you know

(31:49):
um but i may make an exception here um because this is just almost too cool to pass up
we're talking about mighty morphing power rangers the return number one coming in February from
boom studios boom has been consistently knocking it out of the park in the last couple of years
i'll also say that they've really really knocked the whole power rangers license out of the park

(32:11):
to some of the stuff that they've been doing with power rangers has been um really really good
and i think their their sort of take on mighty morphing is like up there to me with like i'd w's
turtles as just like a really cool synthesis of the things that were cool about mighty morphing but
with a little bit more modern sensibilities to it i think the series works incredibly well long

(32:34):
long may it continue this is why all i can say there but this is gonna be a very very different
beast here so this is actually uh written by former pink ranger during the mighty morphing years
a me joe johnson and madhatson with art by nico leon um and here is the synopsis in an alternate

(32:54):
universe to mighty morphing power rangers finally defeated reed of repolsa and lord said
but at a terrible cost in the wake of tragedy the team went their separate ways 22 years later
the long disband the team reunites to mourn the losses of beloved friends but zack and billy have
some unexpected information to share jason the red ranger has been operating as a lone vigilante

(33:15):
and has since disappeared will the remaining rangers be able to track him down especially with a
mysterious figure in pursuit uh this this is really really interesting and that is sort of an
alternate universe take here on on an alternate timeline take i would say really of the power
rangers what would have happened if they actually had finally defeated
reed and zed right and then kind of like flash forward to like more of a modern day setting like

(33:41):
these characters on our age you know they've not been in the game for a while what happens when they
have to get back together this is a really interesting sort of character study almost set up for
the power rangers franchise i find that really interesting um the of all involvement of of
a me joe johnson here i think is really interesting um you know she was she was not in the uh once and

(34:02):
always special regrettably um for whatever reasons those might have been and obviously that that
is totally her choice but i'm glad that she's decided to uh get involved on a comic side as a way of
sort of celebrating her involvement with the franchise so that's really really cool um i'm very
very interested in this one just as a big old-time um you know power rangers fan and also fan of

(34:23):
of a me joe johnson in general uh i think there's a potential here to uh be something really really
special so i'm definitely here for this one christ it's funny because sometimes like
i don't want to be talking out of two sides of my mouth but with something with these these licensing
and and the nostalgia of it all um i was really pleasantly surprised by how well it worked um my

(34:49):
introduction to power rangers comics as loyal listeners know is the the the ninja turtle crossover
but on your recommendation i did check out like the first two or three trades of the the power rangers
proper comic and i really really greatly enjoyed it and um i need to get back onto it but yeah so i'm
definitely interested uh and intrigued on this um i was i felt similarly about the the netflix

(35:14):
special where she was not involved but you know the people set their own limits and we got a really
fun it's i'd be like the cheesiness of it all uh be darned but it was a really really fun kind of
celebration of the history of those characters and uh i'm excited to do that again
i de christ so your uh your final uh book that you have an ion is no surprise to long-time listeners

(35:40):
of the pod well listen as of the time we're recording a mortal Thor
Thor just dropped and was one of those issues in my opinion where you just you're kind of
stunned you just sit there you finish it and you're just kind of speechless
it's one of those standalone issues where you're just like oh my god what did i just read um and

(36:05):
all credit to alliguing and martin coca-loh like it was just a magnificent magnificent issue um
and so i'm excited to see where this issue goes and and a mortal Thor 7 is the solicitation that we
have for fabricory so i would not be doing my two diligence if um i didn't recommend this one

(36:27):
so the solicitor reads the trials of utgard young Thor faced the tricks of the utgard Loki
with all that lived at stake in a tale twice told and now told again yet the teller was the
skull of realms in their aspect as Thor's enemy and thus the tale could twist upon itself and if

(36:47):
Thor falter it could make a new end this is the story of the immortal Thor and the story may yet
destroy us all i just we talked about this when this series was announced how uing put that immortal
tag on this as like a self challenge to live up to with the success son um

(37:08):
and how critically acclaimed uh the mortal Thor was and by my margin it's absolutely lived up to that
which is a tall order i saw i saw someone online compare uh immortal hulk is the realms of

(37:32):
of hell and then immortal Thor is the realms of heaven and like what character would you like to
see as like purgatory or something uh people were joking that spider man would be the immortal spider
man would be endless purgatory for his character development or lack thereof
but i had to tell you what man the the synchronicity between the scripts and the art as the biggest

(37:58):
mythology nerd and enthusiast that you'll find just diving deep in the the poetic eddas of old
like bringing back like utgard and toranos like these old not very often reference like old Celtic
stuff mythology in addition to the norse mythology like it's just a wild ride and i absolutely love it

(38:24):
man not to mention not to mention like the Thor core like you've got storm you've got lowkey lifting
the hammer you've got jane there uh like you got beta ray bill like it's it was just an awesome jam
piece and i'm ready for more look i think it's fair to say that pound for pound is probably the best

(38:46):
superhero book on the market right now um and uh and and you know i'm not this lifelong Thor fan
that you are and i and i'm reading a lot of books that i'm really enjoying i think what's going on
with the superman line over dc is fantastic but but i think that this book is a whole different level
i think uwing really is bringing something special to the table here and there are there are things that

(39:11):
are clicking in in a way that i think could make this like the quintessential like definite Thor run
if it continues the way it is right now i think there are so many interesting things happening and
there's so many layers and so much complexity to the storytelling even though on the surface it's a
very simple story you know there are so many layers here i love the depiction of his relationship

(39:34):
with Loki in this uh that's the best oh the best i think i think i think that they really like
that they hit on something with this particular i i love the whole like do you do you trust me as
your brother do you trust me as your enemy you know like oh my god oh that moment was so good
you know and it's just like yeah i do trust you even if you're my enemy be what you have to be

(39:56):
you know like it's it's that that kind of just like love between those two characters even though
you know all the stuff that been through as adversaries is just it's it's a fantastic book
it just clicks on every singular level and that is very very rare in in in corporate superhero
comics these days you know like everything feels a little compromised everything feels a little

(40:19):
controlled by the tutorial everything feels like we need to maintain a certain status quo so we can
you know uh you know set the table for the next writer and just continue this you know into infinity
but this almost feels like Thor as like an image comic or something you know mature complex deep
storytelling you know i just i really really love this book and that's

(40:42):
i doubt saying something because again i'm not i'm not like completely hooked on Thor like you are but
this is a special book man so i'm very excited for this to continue what what i appreciate about
the most is the the back and forth between Thor and Loki doesn't feel stagnant or stale like i

(41:03):
was looking at the DC solicitations and i was just like oh here's more joker here's more joker
and then there's more joker and i like that there's a there's a part of me that i don't think i've
ever read a single Batman proper comic book and i think that's probable you might greatest
hesitation is like i don't want to be smash or beat out of the head with the joker the joker like

(41:29):
but what the commitment to like the fact that Loki is gender fluid and uses they them pronouns like
is just fascinating like the lipline li-lucky's lipliner is popping uh it's like
like looks great the art just sings and for something like this story has been going on for centuries

(41:58):
and still being able to find uncharted territory in this uncharted storytelling potential
like i almost teared up when Loki lifted the hammer man like that's that's powerful stuff
it is and it's just it it does not disappoint you know is and i think stuff like

(42:21):
Loki's gender fluidity is so baked into like the original news anyways like here here's the guy who
dude sired a child with a horse oh yeah so that's yeah he will he he is he's about as fluid as a
character can be i think and so you know translating that into sort of this this modern

(42:41):
modern sensibility works incredibly well and feels very true i think to to the original myths that
that these comics are based on right um so i just i just think this is clicking on every single level
if if you angsting now is that i if i he puts a mortal on the cover then it means that he's bringing

(43:02):
in his a game then i will be at every immortal whatever he does you know because i love the mortal
Hulk i i love the riding on a mortal Hulk um and now you know he's doing it again with Thor and i'm
just like hey if you if you just want to like put your immortal spin on like all the big Marvel
characters i'm here for a mortal Captain America and a mortal spider man and immortal black widow

(43:23):
just keep making him immortal man i'm ready for it because he's just he's just firing and all
cylinders right now man and i think i i i have failed in this um kind of solicitation myself
not talking about the conversation between Thor and auroro in this fourth issue about like there

(43:44):
are so many segments of fandom is just like what can this great uh people call it feats
fe a t s like oh look at this big cool thing that my favorite character can do and like the conversation
between the two of them was just such a great kind of encapsulation about like why we do the thing

(44:06):
that we do as heroes and like yeah i can do these things but it's the why and i thought that was just
really really powerful yeah absolutely man um dav friend of the show former guest uh as the writer

(44:26):
on this next one and i cannot wait for you to pronounce the artist's name
you can kiss my butt i i i i try hard okay i try hard it might not always work but i try hard okay
so so we have a new another book from boom uh you know again boom studios has been really clicking

(44:54):
so we have a new number one the displaced which has a really sort of interesting high concept
thing going on for it uh written by ed brisson with art by luca cassal unwida hey i'm i'm getting better
this actually um this is a fascinating concept and alone for that i just want to check it out

(45:17):
so the city of osawa ontario has vanished without a trace even worse nobody remembers it or the
170 000 missing residents that disappeared along with it as the survivors also fall into the forgotten
they must seek each other out if they hope to have any chance of surviving in a world where no one
believes they exist uh highly acclaimed writer at brisson rising star artist luca cassal unwida and

(45:44):
red hot colorist deconife posed a question how can you feel connected to reality or each other if by
all verifot verifiable means you do not exist uh this is a is a really fascinating concept and
you know the idea of like they're being some kind of vanishing and then you know how does that affect
people always lends itself to really interesting like character study kind of things um i really remember

(46:10):
loving the woods for example by james tinian uh that was a great book where like a whole high
school gets transported vanishes and gets transported to like an alien planet
as a fantastic book all right so those that that sort of jumping off point um for characters i think
is really really interesting and so i'm really really here for this just because i want to know what

(46:33):
they're actually doing with the concept you know it's one of those books where you don't know
anything about the characters you don't really know anything about the storytelling yet but it has
sort of a really really great high concept idea behind it um so i'm really really here for this one
also i think you know it's gonna be fun to pick up something by adbrisson again right um been a
been a little while since we spoke to him um but i uh i think he's a cool dude and i'm really

(46:57):
interested in seeing what he does with the book yeah i'm really fascinated i think it's really cool
as well uh if you do not know adbrisson lives in canada and he spoke about that when we we talked
with him way back when um and so kind of like that firsthand knowledge of kind of the setting
i think that brings like so much wealth of storytelling potential um the the the main cover alone

(47:21):
is just like hypnotically terrifying um i've been revisiting uh a previously nerd commended game
that i would like to color outside the lines and second like reaffirm that nerd commentation redfall
okay so y'all were hating on that game because of fps and god knows what but that game is fun

(47:43):
but it's also abjectly terrifying especially if you're playing in the dark so i'm kind of like
looking around every corner right now even though nerd nightmar is over i'm still spooking myself
by playing a vampire hunting uh slaying game um but yeah this this cover with like all these bodies
like in this this circular kind of abyss is fascinating and uh like like this sci-fi

(48:12):
kind of aspect that twilight zone i think is what brisson said in one of the interviews as well
um is really fascinating and i'm i'm definitely gonna check this one out
all righty folks there you have it that's it for our uh picks for february 2024 which books are you
excited for? Find us on social median let us know you can find us at nerd by word and individually at

(48:35):
that nerd day even at that nerd chris stick around because everybody's favorite segment is just
around the corner after quick break we are bringing you two new nerd commendations
and we're back it's time for everybody's favorite where we bring you some recommendations for

(48:59):
new nerdy media it's time for
chris the strike is over we finally can talk about it go i don't know like we we probably could have
made this its own episode man but yeah the strikes over let's talk about isoka i

(49:24):
listen going into this series i had very high expectations um star wars rebels is my favorite
star wars if you know anything about me you know i love star wars rebels it's my favorite star wars
yes even more so than the original trilogy that might be blasphemy but i don't care um now are
their elements of the original trilogy that are better perhaps but my favorite my home my happy

(49:50):
place is star wars rebels um i just think that it's it's imaginative i think it's ambitious and
it's storytelling i think uh twilight of the apprentice the showdown between isoka and vader is one of
like one of the quintessential moments one of the most overlooked uh and underappreciated moments in

(50:11):
all of star wars because it's animation we talk we've talked a great deal about the the anti animation
bias by a lot of general audiences and how unfortunate that is so going into this i was like hmm
we're getting the band back together but am i going to be happy and i am it was it was kind of rough

(50:33):
sliding there at the beginning it took a lot to win me over but like man when it found its footing
it was singing um i'm gonna be completely honest with you and we're gonna have to probably get your
bleep button ready because we're gonna talk about razzario Dawson um for day and i'm gonna be
completely honest with you like i have such a special place in my heart for ashley xdine as the socatano

(51:00):
it took a long time for me to get used used to razzario Dawson in the role but she won me over uh in
this series and it was fantastic and there's no shortage of just like
acting performances like look anywhere you want to my space wife maria illizabeth winstead

(51:21):
heresandula love her love her so much and there are some people who said that she was too flippant
she was um i heard another person say that she was always the smartest person in the room she was
the adult in the room um and she came across this kind of flippant but i'm here for the character

(51:43):
development she lost the love of her life who's to say that she's not gonna go through a personality
change who's not to say she's gonna get fed up um we have some clear elements to air to the empire
developing in this series um whether or not they're good enough for dave to be happy with remains to
be seen we have a less furry counselor failure who has a different name in this series um but he's

(52:09):
the the jork who's clearly in with the empire he's clearly thrones pollen if you will um i think
really heart wrenching to see how wonderful raced events in once as balan school
in a lot of respects maybe the best thing about this show was balan school in his portrayal just

(52:29):
out of the park and just to know that we will never see him in that role again is just heartbreaking
and i mean it star wars never again do not cgi his face do that whole crap he's gone let that performance
stand the test of time uh i mean even avant-gardeau as shin haughty was a revelation uh revelation

(52:53):
nattasha luberdiso as subin was maybe my least favorite element i'm not a huge subin fan to begin with
she does some dumb stuff that just makes you shake your head in frustration uh grandad malthron
loris michelson i i know that there was a lot of discourse about what that looked like in the
live action but that voice i don't care i don't care what the fit looks like i don't care what he looks

(53:16):
like in blue makeup i don't care the voice the michelson's can she was seen period full stop also
shots to diane lian asanto is morgan elzbeth who really just knocked it out of the park
but huyang davitt tenet huyang was impeccable we love assassin in star wars and uh davitt tenet was

(53:39):
exactly that as huyang um yeah but davitt up no eman is fondy as esur abridger like i love me some
esur abridger like uh and just like a quintessential casting there but my my my boy chopper love him
down but here's the thing dav argy hayden christian we have to talk about it what the redemption arc

(54:06):
if you will if you want to call it a redemption arc storytelling-wise like he whatever but like
what they've been able to do across canobi and now isokah with hayden christian son returning to the
role and actually given quality content quality script is some of the most powerful storytelling
i've ever seen in any franchise not just star wars that that episode will stand the test of time

(54:33):
for me is one of the most important things um there's a debate is andor better or soca better whatever
yeah andor probably collectively is a better series but as you use posited this this is more star wars
this series and just the scenes of him walking off into battle and like the lightning flashes

(54:58):
and he turns into vader and then he turns back to anakin this is just like the conversations that he had
with us soca it's just some of the most powerful stuff the most emotion i've ever felt in star wars man
and i definitely recommend this series if if you love star wars because it's just really touched my
heart in a way that rebels did as well there's a lot to unpack here i do feel like we almost need

(55:23):
an episode just to review usoka um but i do agree with your nerd commendation i think this is a
really really good series and you're right one of the first things i said after finishing it is that
this has probably been the most star wars feeling star wars a product that we've had in a long time
and i think part of the function of that is that it is a continuation of rebels uh in in you know

(55:44):
all but name really um i watched the first season season and a half of rebels and i remember
liking it a great deal um just kind of falling off the wagon with it but i'm sort of aware of the
broad strokes of the show and i think that familiarity of all the characters involved here is i
probably what makes this feel so very star wars because i think at the heart of the original trilogy was

(56:07):
always a sense of um camaraderie i guess it's the best way to put it in the family
underlying friendship you know it's family yeah and i think i think part of the problem of what made
the prequels feel a little cold in comparison is that everybody was sort of there more out of a
sense of duty you know it's the jedi's duty to do this and the duty to do that and it's pat madmaze

(56:31):
duty as a as a queen as a senator to do this and to be here and and it never felt um like the
camaraderie was laced as carefully through that particular story as in the original star wars um
and i think this is what we get here i think a soca is very much a story of camaraderie it's a very
much a story of of of people who are connected to each other and trying to be there for each other

(56:53):
and help each other and uh even through the the disagreements and the difficulties and the conflicts
between personalities and i think that that's resonant um it just works and it feels very much
in line with something like the original trilogy because of that so i like i like that a great deal
um where there are mistakes in the show in you know from a storytelling perspective in my book

(57:18):
there were a few at things but that's you know to be expected nothing is ever gonna resonate 100%
with everybody um but overall i like i like the acting a great deal in the show i like the the writing
a great deal in the show i think it didn't overstate welcome i think i was actually disappointed that
it essentially ended in it to be to be continued right that it didn't that it did not have a a

(57:41):
satisfying conclusion um i think that that's that's a problem generally speaking with modern
star wars comic book movies all of that i think is that nobody wants to actually tell a complete
story it you just always have to leave leave things hanging to a certain extent because we need that
sweet sweet sequel money right um and i know that there's a plan with this that this is all leading

(58:03):
to some kind of movie right um the big speculation being it does some kind of adaptation of air to
the empire um the throng of it all was really good as a as a throng fan going all the way back to the
90s not in that i like him but i think he's a great adversary for star wars heroes because he's
so different from something like the emperor or or Darth Vader somebody who's not force sensitive and

(58:27):
just uses his intellect um is is an absolute great great uh foil for the heroes and star wars and
i think that the throng of it all worked incredibly well here um as far as you know like
Rosario Dawson the less i say about her the better um so needless to say i thought she was really good

(58:47):
here i think there was a lot of criticism um leveled against her initially for being not sleepy
enough i guess is the best way to put it but i think that was with in this is not teenage hair
it's not teenage itself though yeah and i think i think that's i think that's really unfair and
disingenuous i think it's really disingenuous is that yeah i also don't think that there is definitely

(59:08):
a character arc here right and that is that you can tell that there's a lot of weight on her
in the first set of episodes right and then when she has her confrontation with with Anakin with
his four scopes with his presence whatever you will she comes out of that and is immediately
different right it's like a weight has been lifted off of her and i think i don't think she smiles

(59:31):
until she comes back out of that that force vision or whatever you want to call it right and so she's
a very very different character at that point it's like with that weight lifted off of her
she is kind of integrating like her her adult self with her younger self a little bit right so there
is a more a more lightheartedness about her that maybe i was missing the first few episodes

(59:57):
and i think i think that was just written very and performed very purposefully it feels like
this was just part of the character arc of a soko across this series as far as Hayden Christensen
is concerned we said this before and i'll stand by it he was done very wrong by George Lucas's riding
in the prequels i think he's fantastic in the role of Anakin and i know

(01:00:23):
nostalgia is on a hike of the drug but i really really wish that there was a way that we could get like a
full story of him as Anakin now with good riding the way we know that he can perform the role i mean
we've had like we've had him popping up in sort of a asvader and sort of a guest appearance kind of

(01:00:43):
thing canobean we've had him kind of pop up as a guest appearance in a soka and i really think
that christensen could carry very easily some kind of some kind of like mini series or something
whether that's some kind of flashback to his tundra in the clone war some kind of you know mission
that provides background to a future movie they want to do or whether it's something you know a little

(01:01:07):
different from that something about his his his force goes try to make connections with people
or something or trying to move stuff around i don't know i just think that there's something
valuable still in his performance as that character and i think that there is something there is
enough there that we a good story could come out of that i really wish i could see more of him

(01:01:28):
and i'm not particularly nostalgic for the prequels you know we fixed a prequels in the past and
my opinion is pretty clear in that i think there were just a series of really huge missed opportunities
mostly held together by by you know you and my greggers ben canobean as far as performance go he
he basically he basically was like you know he he needed a car practice after carrying three movies

(01:01:52):
like that on his back um but a so-cut think overall is just really quality stuff and i really enjoyed
it and even if you you know if you can't forgive the little missteps in the storytelling which you
know let's let's talk about e-walks for a second then if if that's how you feel um
you know really um if you are if you're not willing to forgive the little missteps in the

(01:02:14):
storytelling and just revel in the star warsiness of these character relationships um then i don't
i don't think you you really enjoy stalwarts anymore like this is as i said the most stalwarts
stalwarts that have stalwarts in many years um one final comment i loved when Ezra Bridger said

(01:02:36):
he didn't want his lightsaber back because the forces is ally i was like that that is what he
but that is what that is what Yoda should have been in attack of the clones to me when he whipped
out that little lightsaber i was like come on he's Yoda the forces is ally he does not need a lightsaber
and i was a little offended by the fact that not even five minutes later he picks up a blaster and at

(01:02:59):
the beginning of the next episode he makes a new lightsaber and i was like dude i was really looking
forward to actually seeing a Jedi once say you know i'm just gonna fight with the force i do not
need the lightsaber like i am still waiting for that Jedi can i get that Jedi police because i thought
it would be Yoda and it wasn't and then i thought hey Ezra might be the guy and you know because he's

(01:03:20):
had to survive so long without one and guess what he wasn't it either like i just really wished he
would have gone full force without the lightsaber but that maybe that's just me at the end of the day
it's still lightsaber dude yeah i think i think for me one final take away and you kind of displayed it
this way it's why i prefer of the three like Empire Strikes Back is probably the best quality film

(01:03:48):
but i prefer return of the Jedi because of the heart and like the the uplifting message of it you know
and we touched on it when you were talking but like that's i think that's why rebels is so special
to me because it's a family it's a found family and whether it's X-Men whether it's Star Wars i'm

(01:04:10):
going to go up for a found family and even that final scene where Ezra takes off his helmet
and heres sees him and like just the look in her eyes is just so incredibly powerful
and i'll always go up for like family and meaning and i'll i'll be able to overlook i'm not very like

(01:04:36):
a micromanager like i'll be over i'll be willing to overlook that if you give me a good storyline
thematically and heart yeah i think i can i go that
all right Dave so we are going to the other star-based sci-fi fandom for your nerd

(01:04:59):
accommodation okay so in order to explain a little bit where i'm coming from i'm gonna have to
flash back for a second so when i was a kid i was a big fan of original Star Trek reruns um
Captain Kirk was my guy i love the Star Trek movies featuring the original crew that stuff was my
jam as a kid i was all about that i did not really connect very well to next generation um i had a

(01:05:25):
friend a close friend who was really into next generation but for me i i've struggled
mildly connecting with that and i still to this day have not really watched all of next generation
i've watched some standout episodes that have been recommended to me i've watched the next generation
movies i see the appeal now i eventually i'll circle back around to it initially i also did not
as a kid connect to deep space nine i don't know what was going on there i don't know if it was like

(01:05:51):
brand confusion because babelon 5 was floating around out there at the same time one of my one of my
best friends was a huge babelon 5 fan i was constantly trash talking deep space nine as like this
derivative product um and so ultimately deep space nine and i did not connect until much later
when i was an adult um and so to me if you're looking at the original Star Trek shows um deep space nine

(01:06:16):
is probably the best i think that is i think that is totally fair to say from storytelling perspective
it's the most complex it's the one that got to be the most serialized and because of that it had the
sort of the deepest stories and the best character development there's however one show that i have
a massive soft spot for because i did actually watch it as it aired and that is Star Trek Voyager

(01:06:37):
Star Trek Voyager is is a weird weird animal of a television show in that it has a premise that
lends itself to serialization and yet the word from the powers that be from the producers was always
to downplay serialization and do standalone episodes instead there are things about Voyager that
are absolutely adored um i think uh cap cap and Catherine Janeway is a fantastic character in her

(01:07:03):
character development across the show is really good um i really liked you know the character Tom
Paris as the pilot balanator is was and their um their blossoming romance on the ship was really
interesting especially in the earlier seasons i think that it really cooled things with um with time
travel in the show at some point um but i think Voyager today i stand sort of as a great missed

(01:07:27):
opportunity in complex storytelling for the ship that is you know a federation ship but lost 70 000
you know light years away from from federation space and is trying to make their way home i think
it is a great missed opportunity but i have a soft spot for it one of the things that always
hurt me tremendously about the show however was the finale in that the finale was a two-part

(01:07:52):
story that ended incredibly appropriately in that they return to the alpha quadrant after being
gone for seven years the ship appears where it's supposed to be and the show ends and there is no
catharsis no release no reunion heartfelt or otherwise between characters and their loved ones

(01:08:14):
there's no sense of a really returning home right it's just boom we're back in the alpha quadrant
everybody smiles the end right and so there there was a lack of shall we say denu mo and and i
thought that was a huge missed opportunity um as part of the show well lo and behold much like

(01:08:35):
pretty much every star Trek show they actually relaunched it as a series of novels um i've read the
relaunch the s9 books and so i decided to you know flip over and check out the relaunched Voyager books
and the first book in the series was Star Trek Voyager Homecoming by Kristi Golden and lo and behold this

(01:08:56):
is what i was looking for um i'm about halfway through the novels so far and i wholeheartedly
recommended already for fans of Star Trek Voyager who felt that the finale was way too abrupt
because here is your denu moh the first half of the book basically is the reunions the status of
the various characters as they try to reintegrate into Federation space after being gone so long

(01:09:21):
and yes this is also laying the seeds for future stories as this was the starting point for a whole
series of books but there is something deeply satisfying in dealing with the emotion of these
characters that we've watched for seven years on the screen finally coming home who you know is
able to sort of slide back into their old life who struggles you know uh who who doesn't really find

(01:09:46):
a place easily and needs to redefine themselves those sorts of things um could have very easily be
dealt with within the show at least somewhat um but they didn't and so if you were a fan of Star Trek
Voyager and you felt like the ending was to have propped a highly recommend Star Trek Voyager Homecoming
by Kristi Golden for giving you a little bit of that closure that you're looking for as these

(01:10:08):
characters return home yet so Voyager is one of those things on my nerd bucket list that I have yet
to complete that I have every intention in the world that might be my summer project um to dive into
to Voyager um long-time listeners know that I came very very very very late to the Star Trek fandom

(01:10:34):
my introduction to Star Trek proper properly was through the first JJ Abrams film um and then into
darkness um and then I didn't get into Star Trek until the original series used to watch on Netflix
um probably like eight or nine years ago and then um I watched through the next generation

(01:11:03):
and I grew through I think and then you know very detailed are my journey with deep space nine
based on your recommendation um and one of the things that is one of the greatest benefits
of our friendship is deep space nine and that that recommendation when you and I were bored out of
our minds at a professional development you were like oh by the way you should watch deep space nine

(01:11:29):
but I think someone I think someone on Star Trek twitter said um deep space nine is what you
think next generation is it's just your nostalgia like and all love that seems right here and
there are character moments that um I love from from next generation I love some of those characters

(01:11:53):
but circling back to what I just said about a silka in Star Wars Rebels is that
found family these disparate parts so so completely different um is is so hammered home and it's so
effortly effortlessly well done on deep space nine um I think that I think within the problem of

(01:12:17):
next generation and I know this is gonna sound a little unkind but you know you might recall that I
read like this massive like two volume yes yes the conflict the conflict thing yeah and it was
the conflict thing it goes back to Jean Roddenberry saying he does not want
interpersonal conflict between the crew and when you remove the concept of interpersonal conflict

(01:12:38):
from these characters I mean one of the ways that characters grows to come into conflict if
I'm against each other right and then and then they grow so I understand Roddenberry's vision of
sort of a utopia and we've moved move past this but from a storytelling perspective it's incredibly
limiting um and I think that's why in some ways I struggle to connect to to next generation is

(01:12:58):
because I didn't feel like these people were real people if that makes sense right they were sort of
you know overly idealized almost in a lot of ways and that's why I think ultimately
deep space now resonated more with me and Voyager Voyager sits like halfway between those two you know

(01:13:18):
like Voyager has these hints where it wants to do what deep space nine does but doesn't get to
and so it feels a little bit more next generation a but there's these glimmers of deep space
nineness I guess Voyager to me has some of the highest highs in Star Trek but also some of the
lowest lows it is a very very uneven show because of that I give you a great example there was a

(01:13:43):
two-parter the year of hell or hell year or something like that and it chronicles one year of like
the lives of on Voyager and how just everything goes wrong and that the ship is battle-worn and they
can't you know get supplies and it's it's it's absolutely amazing two-parter the problem is that it was
it was pitched as a season long 22 episode arc you know it was supposed to be literally the season

(01:14:07):
of everything going wrong and the ship from episode to episode is like limping along and slowly
things are getting worse you know and you see the consequences over time of them trying to make
their way home and being so far away from resources which is genius but it was shot down-pride producer
saying you can make it a two-parter but then everything has to reset back because we're doing
standalone stories so you get these glimmers of what DS9 did so well you know character growth

(01:14:33):
and sort of serialization but they really didn't get to ever pull the trigger on it fully and
that was to the detriment of a show I think for me what makes Deep Space 9 and again I don't have
contacts for Voyager yet but I think what makes Deep Space 9 stand out to me is and you've called it
Bumpy forehead syndrome or the alien species on Star Trek but even by that even through that filter

(01:15:00):
you at least have different species of aliens on this core cast you have you have a cling on
you have a human you have bejorins you have the shape shifters of like like Odo like you have
like all of these different types of species all of their deeply entangled allegiances

(01:15:31):
and how these people can coexist is fascinating to me and how Cisco has to iron out all of these
disparate parts and make everything run smoothly on this space station is fascinating to me
and so part of the set of a Voyager was partially that too you know in fact it's in a lot of ways it's

(01:15:52):
an outgrowth of Deep Space 9 because you're dealing with the marquee right I mean the mission of Voyager
initially is to like hunt down a group of marquee and then both ships get catapulted into the delta
quadrant and then Janeway puts two crews together when the marquee ship is is destroyed
right so the ideas you have these two very different sets of people that are interacting

(01:16:12):
but then they never really went far enough with it you know like they just they ironed out the
differences too fast they didn't they didn't let things simmer like they didn't deep space
on it was so it was like I said a lot of missed opportunities there and look at us our nerd
commendations is longer than our pig talk well we we we also can be a bit uneven sometimes

(01:16:36):
all righty folks will there you have it that's it for episode 173 of the NerdBiWord podcast if you
like which just heard please get on your favorite podcasting platform drop us a rating in a review
and subscribe so you never miss another episode we are wherever podcasts can be found and our very
own website nerdbiWord.com and find us on all the socials because at the time of this recording

(01:16:58):
who knows what will happen with Twitter but you can find us on all the socials at NerdBiWord perhaps
individually that nerd Dave and that nerd Chris but as always stay well and stay nerdy
the NerdBiWord is written and produced by Chris and Dave two nerds with a love of all things
pop culture podcast features music by Al Ymanez with additional drops composed by Joe Bianchi our show

(01:17:23):
art is by ashery design find us at nerdbiWord.com and wherever podcasts are available
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Okay.
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