November 22, 2022 • 28 mins
When the finance, marketing, IT, or HR departments get huge attention and patronage from the top management, procurement is seldom invited to share the limelight.
But best-in-class procurement can contribute to an organization's success in multiple ways, and companies must not fail to use that potential. They should start by building up an efficient procurement team.
Notwithstanding its potential, few business leaders are interested in discovering what procurement does.
This nonchalance is reflected in the recruitment process, with companies often ending up hiring the wrong people for their procurement groups.
In this episode of our PGC podcast, our guest, Aslan Akyol, explains what companies can do to hire the right profiles for procurement. Tune in.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:32):
Hello and welcome to the Procurement GameChangers, the podcast for leaders that make
a difference.
Today we'll talk about how to find the rightprofile for your procurement group.
And to discuss that topic, I have the greatpleasure to receive Aslan Akyol.
Aslan is the Chief Purchasing officer anda member of the executive board as Stash.
(00:52):
Aslan has 30 years of working experience withmany companies.
He's currently with Stash, a grocery deliverycompany that delivers groceries within 10
minutes to your doorstep with no minimum ordervalue and at supermarket prices.
We're glad to have you with us today.
So welcome to the show Aslan.
(01:12):
Thank you Hélène.
Thank you for reminding me to your podcastand I hope I could contribute something meaningful
to it.
I'm sure you will.
So Aslan, could you tell us what led you toprocurement?
Okay.
I think.
I guess probably my mother must have contributedsomehow.
She always negotiated everywhere I rememberand whether she knew the language or not.
(01:33):
I mean, she came to Switzerland more than20 years [ago].
She was about 22 years old I guess.
And she was trying to negotiate down everythingand that's probably why I applied at the end
as a young man in purchasing for my firstjob with engine material purchasing at Swiss
Technical Services, which then became SR Techniques.
(01:57):
I found it super interesting.
And then that's why I guess after a few yearsI was able to take on larger projects.
And when I remember some examples were thetendering and negotiations for the Airbus
A340 fleet with Pratt & Whitney Engines andthe Rolls Royce engines.
So that was really fun and I remember a lotof work and nights and the weekends and we
(02:27):
have chosen the Rolls Royce at the end forthe A340 fleet of Swiss Air.
And also of course for me very interestingwas the maintenance contract call for tenders
on the JT9D-7R4 J2 engines of the Boeing 747at that time with KLM Dutch and Japan Airlines.
I met a lot of people and experienced differentcultures from all over the world.
(02:50):
And nevertheless, I had to decide enough,11 years.
I'm gonna change my industry.
And I went into telecommunication back in1999 to diAx, a new player on the Swiss telecom
market, founded, roughly after the liberalizationin 1997.
And that was really because leaving a reallydeep marginal flight maintenance industry
(03:19):
and then go to telecommunication was a littlebit of culture shock for me.
Whereas before I had to fight for every centand diAx people were talking millions as it
were cents.
And that's why for me it was like (03:32):
wow.
Everything was normal.
A few millions, it's normal.
And within a very short term of two years,I guess then almost more turnover than the
SR techniques of the 60 years in business.
That was really for me, incredible at thattime for a young person.
(03:55):
And I was responsible, there, for the networkarea.
And my first, I'd say, my first big successwas in the UMTS tender back in the year 2000.
I had to organize 60 half-day meetings withNokia networks and Ericsson networks and that
(04:15):
was just jumping around.
And at the end, I guess even asking me toset up a strategic purchasing department of
Sunrise after the merger back in 2001.
And the UMTS tender negotiated PowerPointpresentations, that was also something which
I really remember.
So you were negotiating of millions, evenbillions which was only on PowerPoint and
(04:41):
nothing existed.
Everything was just on PowerPoint.
And really exciting years.
Nevertheless I thought why not go try anotherindustry again?
And so I was really lucky to go after 11 yearsto Migros.
And Migros is the largest retailer here andprivate employer in Switzerland, approximately
(05:04):
a hundred thousand employees and 15 timesthe turnover of Sunrise.
And the second culture shock for me at thattime after the fast-moving and dynamic telecommunications,
Migros was like a snail compared to Sunrise.
And it was starting the head of supplier andcontract management then take over the strategic
(05:25):
procurement department in 2014.
And then transform it [in] 2019 by bringingit really on par level with the FMCG companies.
Because Migros had no clue about what is theprofit per square meter and what is the profit
(05:45):
there.
And that's why I guess what shelf meter, Imean sorry.
And that's why we had to take new softwareinto it, data analyst, business analyst and
then actually transform the whole departmentand getting new people.
And I guess that was quite good success atthe end.
(06:06):
So said I promised what I had to do back in2019 and then I wanna do something really
fun.
And now I landed at the startup Stash, thequick commerce industry in 2021 and now here
I am.
Yeah, thank you for sharing.
It's very interesting to see how from oneindustry to the next, there might be some
(06:31):
differences and, as a procurement leader,you have to learn about them and still you're
still doing the same work.
And that's something that we will discuss.
I'm riding our bicycle as well because theexecutive board has to go once a month, and
ride also, and deliver out all the ordersfrom our customers
(06:53):
That's quite the difference.
So in the background you see actually ourbikes and driving and then trying to find
within 10 minutes.
So we have to feel also what's gonna happenreally at the front.
That's interesting.
So we're going back to the topic today andwe'll start with the fact that compared to
other functions like Finance, Marketing, ITor HR, procurement is always fighting for
(07:18):
more visibility and/or attention from theexecutive committee.
And indeed procurement is not well understoodby executives.
It's not taught in school.
The students there learn about Finance, Marketing,Strategy, even Technology but not procurement.
So most executives, unless they are in thesuper supply chain function, don't know much
(07:39):
about what procurement does.
And as a result, most companies don't hirethe right profiles and they often end up with
the wrong teams.
So what are the mistakes to avoid?
how do you find the right profile for procurement?
That is what we're going to discuss abouttoday with you Aslan.
So first question.
In your opinion, what are the pitfalls whenhiring people for procurement roles?
(08:07):
When I remember really back all these yearsnow I guess for me it was always the typical
phrase, in an advertising for a vacancy forexample: there are many years of purchasing
experience in this and that industry.
For me it was all like, it's not a qualitativestatement.
(08:27):
Just as little somebody would say, I haveleadership experience.
Also this is not a qualitative statement.
That's why that [it] was always a pitfalllooking for people just being in that industry.
And I have also some examples from men inthe financial industry where I've seen that
these people, unfortunately, had nothing tosay there.
(08:48):
But to be honest, on the other hand, the questionis really only valid if purchasing really
has to be successful in that company.
Because we are somehow faced with the realityof companies.
Like who decides really what success of purchasingis or should be really.
The executives who have little knowledge ofprocurement or the fear to lose decision power
(09:13):
and reputation on the market.
I have a very interesting example.
I remember back a head of marketing communications,his name was Bert and he was really, I mean,
he was really throwing curses at us and saidthat he will hardly find a good job on the
market after we have negotiated to advertisingagency fees down by 30% and we will be responsible
(09:38):
if he never finds a good job on the marketand so on and so forth.
So really interesting things.
What is the right profile for procurement?
And I'm talking about soft skills, hard skill.
So what is that profile that you're lookingfor?
I guess the right profile can't be reallyadvertised.
(09:59):
It is like an experienced interviewer couldfind the right person out from an unusual
but interesting CV for example, and also fromface to face interviews.
That's why I personally owned it.
HR only filtered the applications when itwas really obvious but the person just wanted
to have an application for the job center.
(10:20):
So I actually I address but I want to be inpurchasing or for example.
But my philosophy I guess was really whenyou know how to buy, you can buy everything.
Of course there are exceptions.
I mean jobs where you need physical or naturalskills, sense of taste and sensitive senses
(10:43):
of smell when you are a coffee or cacao buyeror for example also when you have to buy ingredients
and flavors for example the perfume industry.
But I guess for me it was the mix of people.
It was also important and it's Meredith Belbinactually once described his nine roles of
(11:04):
good teams.
And there was a resource, he called resourceinvestigator, team worker, a plant planted
like seeding and growing.
He wanted to evaluate, shape, implement whatever,complete or finisher.
(11:26):
Actually I took it simply cause I'm not aprofessor.
So I always had a vision person.
Sometimes it was me, sometimes [it] was anotherperson.
And that work [is] very important.
I also have a very good example.
An [implementation] person being able to implementeverything and also person who's analyzing
it, in a structured way.
(11:47):
And of course, someone that is the good soulof the team.
So the person who can always have the abilityto connect all the team members even if they
are totally different.
And I guess these are five roles you shouldhave in a very successful purchasing team.
So you mentioned that person who is a networker.
(12:10):
So that's interesting because in a previouspodcast, we discussed about the importance
for procurement to build a network internallyand with suppliers.
So could you develop a little bit that, andyou mentioned that you have an example so
maybe you can give that example to explainmore of that role in particular.
(12:31):
I remember when I started back at Sunrisein the telecommunication industry, the key
account manager of a big telecom network infrastructureprovider.
That guy had, I'm probably remembering correctly,that guy had 216 direct contacts to the company.
(12:55):
He knew everything much, much better thananybody in the company.
He knew exactly what the CEO is doing, theCFO, what the CMO, the CTO, whatever.
And he knew what strategy we have.
So he knew and actually everything.
And so how can it be that a supplier knowsmuch more than anybody else in the company.
(13:18):
But that's why I said that's clear.
He was an incredible professional networker.
But that's why I had one guy, my team then,which I hired coming from Siemens.
And that guy was like, he was everywhere.
Every party, always, you have to go becauseyou have to control what our marketing guys
(13:40):
say, what our network people say.
You have to go to supplier events and getinformation, collect them.
And from that time on, actually we add thebest and the first knowledge what's gonna
happen on the market before anybody else inthe company.
And that's why I guess it's important to havea network.
(14:01):
No it's interesting.
It's like underground business intelligence.
If I hear correctly.
Somehow quite
Well is this...
So we see that you have several roles in yourteams and then you need to identify, even
on paper, those profiles might look the same.
They might not fall into the same role andthen at the end you need a team that makes
(14:27):
sense.
Right.
That's what I hear from what you said.
And I have a question though, and you mentionedthat briefly before the fact that there are
limitations to on certain categories.
So I would just expand that as this.
Is it true for all categories beyond thoselimitations that you mentioned?
And then are there specificities in the profilethat you seek for a company like yours today
(14:53):
for Stash for instance?
Are there some specificities today?
I guess first of all, for us actually it isreally important to see trends here to emphasize
how customers [behave].
And also as a startup actually you have tosell hope.
Okay?
So you never know when your money is awayand the bird rate is too high, whatever.
(15:17):
But that's, for us, important.
Nevertheless.
I guess, to the first part of your questionabout: is it all categories?
As I mentioned before, also you can't reallydo that everywhere.
Because when you are working in government,for example, it might be different.
When you're working in the financial industry,it might be different.
When you're working in, for example, the tobaccoindustry, it might be different again.
(15:42):
That's why I guess you have to know reallywhat industry you are.
What are, let's say, the most important pointsyou have to consider for your own function?
And that's why you can't say, yeah, category,IT is everywhere the same, it's not.
So even it might be totally different whenyou are working in government.
(16:04):
Yeah.
So it's kind of a foundation that you canbuild on.
Be clear that what is important actually isbeyond the right profile on paper, is to make
sure that that person has the right mindset,the right attitude to procurement and then
(16:26):
that you have the right roles for your teamin your industry, in your category, in your
type of company.
That's what I understand.
So it's kind of (16:33):
be flexible.
There is not one fits all team that worksfor everyone.
And you said before, based on your goal, youwant to be successful as a procurement team.
That's kind of the ultimate question.
I hope as procurement leaders we want to besuccessful, right.
I hope that's the case, but yeah, that's notalways.
(16:54):
And some, sometimes actually it's really likethe feeling you might have as an interviewer.
I remember a guy actually.
He was harvesting kiwis and whatever in NewZealand and before he was working in a bar
as a waiter, wait no, it was a discotheque,right?
(17:14):
A disco, club and a nightclub.
He was working as a waiter and collectingmoney and saving money for his world trip,
whatever.
And that guy, he could not speak English atthat time.
So he went on a world tour without being ableto speak English.
(17:36):
And I said like a guy actually on the worldtour, getting back and finding always a solution
for every situation in his life or on hisjourney might be an interesting person.
So I invited him for an interview and thatguy became one of our most creative executives
(17:57):
in my purchasing team.
And still, he's still the most creative personI know actually working or used to work in
purchasing.
Yeah, actually no, nobody probably would haveinvited him to an interview.
Really nobody.
Yeah, I hear you.
You have to see really beyond the profileon paper.
(18:20):
So on that, I can totally, I agree with youtotally.
I don't think that someone would have hiredme in procurement if I said so before because
of my profile, but here I am.
So where do you find the right profiles foryour procurement role?
Is it your network?
Do you have spontaneous candidates, internetplatforms, headhunters?
(18:42):
How do you go to find these profiles?
Oh, I probably, I used all of them reallybased sometimes on the time constraints you
have.
I used headhunters.
[It] was the right choice.
(19:03):
I used sometimes thousands of interviews untilyou only have your right candidate for the
challenging job.
I mean, I remember also there a guy, alsothe interesting example, he was actually unemployed
(19:23):
when I invited him for the interview.
He was unemployed.
He came for a very, very small company.
Maybe 15 people.
We used to purchase I guess little screensor whatever for the car navigation system.
That said, if somebody has to struggle everyday: we've been tiny and getting still never
(19:49):
nevertheless being able to get very good prices,very good conditions, whatever from Asia.
Although you are very small and you're strugglingand doing and working and fighting.
I invited that guy.
He was half Spanish half German, I guess.
And first interview was like, he was verynervous, but he seemed very clever, very smart.
(20:15):
The second interview I told him, I felt hewas really nervous at the last time and he
said, Yeah, yeah, are you right?
And in the middle of the second interviewI said, Hey, you are half Spanish right?
Yes.
Okay what would you say if I say now (20:32):
step on the table and dance flamenco for me, please.
And this immediate answer was like (20:39):
Yes Mr. Akyol, if you dance with me, of course, I
will do it.
And I said okay, you're hired.
So it depends [on] the attitude, how fasthe can react and that's much more important
than somebody he would be totally astonished.
(21:03):
Very interesting question.
That's why I guess it's really the feeling.
It's not clear what is the best choice.
Yeah.
So that's why it's hard.
You have to go around, do interviews and meetpeople.
We said that before, it's not what they haveon paper.
It's really the mindset, the attitude.
That's what I understand.
(21:23):
And he's now really head of worldwide purchasingof a really big banking company, bank.
So the attitude was all it was.
So if for newcomers to the procurement community,and I know that there are quite a lot that
are listening to you and watching the podcast.
(21:44):
Do you have any advice on how to grow as abuyer when you don't have the technical knowledge
of the product or the service that you'resupposed to buy?
I guess remembering that, what Steve Jobsonce said?
Stay hungry, stay foolish.
Okay it's not the same but it's somehow validalso for the part of a buyer as well.
(22:09):
I always listen carefully and ask a lot.
The more you ask, the more you know.
Listen and ask the supplier, listen and askyour colleagues and sometimes listen and ask
yourself (22:21):
am I doing really the right thing?
But I guess I found out that many people donot listen because they want to make the case
and do not ask because they then believe theircompetence will be questioned.
But I guess we found listening carefully andasking you don't learn that was somehow the
(22:43):
same way at school.
That's very true.
And I agree with you on that fact that youcan learn every day, even if you are an established
leader or a seasoned professional, you canstill learn even about your own subject matter
(23:07):
because things are changing, new methodologiesare coming in.
So it's always an opportunity to learn moreor educate yourself on things that you might
think it's not right.
And then to discover it is all the other wayaround.
So I think this
True
So besides recruitment, what is the most challengingtask for a procurement leader?
(23:31):
For instance, what is the most challengingtask for you right now in your current position?
I mean in the current position of course itis really, it's the money, okay.
It is to sell hope.
It is getting the, let's say, very good conditionsor similar conditions like the big retailers,
(23:56):
or without having, even without having a percent,1% of the volumes you can order.
I mean, this is something which is the mostchallenging.
How can you let the companies deliver to eachof our warehouses we have everywhere in the
cities.
(24:16):
And that's why I guess that's the most challengingpart of it.
How to convince, how to convince the big playerson the market to deliver attractive prices
to the products actually.
Yeah,
That's my personal, very challenging.
No, no, I can relate to that.
Trust me.
(24:37):
Get the big players to trust a small startup.
Yes, I can do that.
Correct, correct.
And then to the first part of your question,actually the most challenging is probably
being accepted at eye level with the otherexecutives.
Still, many people believe that everybodycan buy as they do in the supermarket.
(24:59):
And there also, I remember a very good statementof a former CEO which I had.
I was like typical.
The typical (25:11):
hey you play the back cop and I'm the good cop.
And that's why, I was in an elevator withthe CEO and he told me that sentence as well:
Hey Aslan ya, how?
Yeah, bad cop, good cop.
And then hey, I told him that he can ask hiswife to play the bad cops if he wants and
I don't need to play.
(25:32):
I know what I want and how to convince thesuppliers.
He frowned slightly, smiled a little bit cheaplyand the door of the elevator opened.
So that was a typical really example wherewhile most of the executives have always the
same.
And nobody would say that, for example, toa marketing guy, nobody would say that to
(25:55):
a financial guy or nobody would say that toa CIO for example.
It's always like everybody (26:01):
[it] must be I'm easy.
I mean I'm going to the supermarket and buy.
Okay.
That's why.
And seeing in the TV and Hollywood movies: bad cop, good cop and always that, okay, yes. (26:08):
undefined
This is the most challenging to explain, orsay to.
Having also that eye level.
I mean nobody would answer the CEO (26:20):
Go and ask your wife.
Okay.
So you have to have also this, let's say whatyou call it, a standing really.
And also believe in yourself in order to havesuch an answer to your own CEO
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Now it's time for the takeaway.
(26:40):
So if there was one thing that you want ourlisteners to remember from that conversation,
what would that be?
I guess especially that's for the recruitmentfor procurement.
Don't believe what you read.
Just believe what you personally see or hearor [the] reactions you are faced with in an
(27:06):
interview or a video call.
So take your time to find the right role orright person for the position you need in
order to have an effective team and not justfill up the vacancy because you're looking
now already for eight weeks.
Yeah.
that's a takeaway.
It's better to wait.
Yeah.
It's all about mindset, fit with your teamsand yourself, and attitude.
(27:30):
I think it's a very good way to summarizewhat we've said in that conversation.
Thank you.
Thank you for your time.
That was very interesting and I'm sure thatour listeners will be, as you were mentioning
before, I think that they will feel that theyare not losing their time.
Thank you.
(27:51):
Hope so.
Okay.
Thank you all.
Bye
Now it's your turn to tell us about your experienceand new challenges when hiring the right profiles
for your procurement group in the commentsection.
Don't forget to subscribe if you want to benotified when a new episode is out.
Thank you for listening and I hope you enjoythis episode.
And if that's the case, don't forget to giveus a thumbs up.
(28:12):
So happy sourcing
to you all and au revoir.
Hello and welcome to the Procurement GameChangers, the podcast for leaders that make
a difference.
Today we'll talk about how to find the rightprofile for your procurement group.
And to discuss that topic, I have the greatpleasure to receive Aslan Akyol.
Aslan is the Chief Purchasing officer anda member of the executive board as Stash.
(00:52):
Aslan has 30 years of working experience withmany companies.
He's currently with Stash, a grocery deliverycompany that delivers groceries within 10
minutes to your doorstep with no minimum ordervalue and at supermarket prices.
We're glad to have you with us today.
So welcome to the show Aslan.
(01:12):
Thank you Hélène.
Thank you for reminding me to your podcastand I hope I could contribute something meaningful
to it.
I'm sure you will.
So Aslan, could you tell us what led you toprocurement?
Okay.
I think.
I guess probably my mother must have contributedsomehow.
She always negotiated everywhere I rememberand whether she knew the language or not.
(01:33):
I mean, she came to Switzerland more than20 years [ago].
She was about 22 years old I guess.
And she was trying to negotiate down everythingand that's probably why I applied at the end
as a young man in purchasing for my firstjob with engine material purchasing at Swiss
Technical Services, which then became SR Techniques.
(01:57):
I found it super interesting.
And then that's why I guess after a few yearsI was able to take on larger projects.
And when I remember some examples were thetendering and negotiations for the Airbus
A340 fleet with Pratt & Whitney Engines andthe Rolls Royce engines.
So that was really fun and I remember a lotof work and nights and the weekends and we
(02:27):
have chosen the Rolls Royce at the end forthe A340 fleet of Swiss Air.
And also of course for me very interestingwas the maintenance contract call for tenders
on the JT9D-7R4 J2 engines of the Boeing 747at that time with KLM Dutch and Japan Airlines.
I met a lot of people and experienced differentcultures from all over the world.
(02:50):
And nevertheless, I had to decide enough,11 years.
I'm gonna change my industry.
And I went into telecommunication back in1999 to diAx, a new player on the Swiss telecom
market, founded, roughly after the liberalizationin 1997.
And that was really because leaving a reallydeep marginal flight maintenance industry
(03:19):
and then go to telecommunication was a littlebit of culture shock for me.
Whereas before I had to fight for every centand diAx people were talking millions as it
were cents.
And that's why for me it was like (03:32):
wow.
Everything was normal.
A few millions, it's normal.
And within a very short term of two years,I guess then almost more turnover than the
SR techniques of the 60 years in business.
That was really for me, incredible at thattime for a young person.
(03:55):
And I was responsible, there, for the networkarea.
And my first, I'd say, my first big successwas in the UMTS tender back in the year 2000.
I had to organize 60 half-day meetings withNokia networks and Ericsson networks and that
(04:15):
was just jumping around.
And at the end, I guess even asking me toset up a strategic purchasing department of
Sunrise after the merger back in 2001.
And the UMTS tender negotiated PowerPointpresentations, that was also something which
I really remember.
So you were negotiating of millions, evenbillions which was only on PowerPoint and
(04:41):
nothing existed.
Everything was just on PowerPoint.
And really exciting years.
Nevertheless I thought why not go try anotherindustry again?
And so I was really lucky to go after 11 yearsto Migros.
And Migros is the largest retailer here andprivate employer in Switzerland, approximately
(05:04):
a hundred thousand employees and 15 timesthe turnover of Sunrise.
And the second culture shock for me at thattime after the fast-moving and dynamic telecommunications,
Migros was like a snail compared to Sunrise.
And it was starting the head of supplier andcontract management then take over the strategic
(05:25):
procurement department in 2014.
And then transform it [in] 2019 by bringingit really on par level with the FMCG companies.
Because Migros had no clue about what is theprofit per square meter and what is the profit
(05:45):
there.
And that's why I guess what shelf meter, Imean sorry.
And that's why we had to take new softwareinto it, data analyst, business analyst and
then actually transform the whole departmentand getting new people.
And I guess that was quite good success atthe end.
(06:06):
So said I promised what I had to do back in2019 and then I wanna do something really
fun.
And now I landed at the startup Stash, thequick commerce industry in 2021 and now here
I am.
Yeah, thank you for sharing.
It's very interesting to see how from oneindustry to the next, there might be some
(06:31):
differences and, as a procurement leader,you have to learn about them and still you're
still doing the same work.
And that's something that we will discuss.
I'm riding our bicycle as well because theexecutive board has to go once a month, and
ride also, and deliver out all the ordersfrom our customers
(06:53):
That's quite the difference.
So in the background you see actually ourbikes and driving and then trying to find
within 10 minutes.
So we have to feel also what's gonna happenreally at the front.
That's interesting.
So we're going back to the topic today andwe'll start with the fact that compared to
other functions like Finance, Marketing, ITor HR, procurement is always fighting for
(07:18):
more visibility and/or attention from theexecutive committee.
And indeed procurement is not well understoodby executives.
It's not taught in school.
The students there learn about Finance, Marketing,Strategy, even Technology but not procurement.
So most executives, unless they are in thesuper supply chain function, don't know much
(07:39):
about what procurement does.
And as a result, most companies don't hirethe right profiles and they often end up with
the wrong teams.
So what are the mistakes to avoid?
how do you find the right profile for procurement?
That is what we're going to discuss abouttoday with you Aslan.
So first question.
In your opinion, what are the pitfalls whenhiring people for procurement roles?
(08:07):
When I remember really back all these yearsnow I guess for me it was always the typical
phrase, in an advertising for a vacancy forexample: there are many years of purchasing
experience in this and that industry.
For me it was all like, it's not a qualitativestatement.
(08:27):
Just as little somebody would say, I haveleadership experience.
Also this is not a qualitative statement.
That's why that [it] was always a pitfalllooking for people just being in that industry.
And I have also some examples from men inthe financial industry where I've seen that
these people, unfortunately, had nothing tosay there.
(08:48):
But to be honest, on the other hand, the questionis really only valid if purchasing really
has to be successful in that company.
Because we are somehow faced with the realityof companies.
Like who decides really what success of purchasingis or should be really.
The executives who have little knowledge ofprocurement or the fear to lose decision power
(09:13):
and reputation on the market.
I have a very interesting example.
I remember back a head of marketing communications,his name was Bert and he was really, I mean,
he was really throwing curses at us and saidthat he will hardly find a good job on the
market after we have negotiated to advertisingagency fees down by 30% and we will be responsible
(09:38):
if he never finds a good job on the marketand so on and so forth.
So really interesting things.
What is the right profile for procurement?
And I'm talking about soft skills, hard skill.
So what is that profile that you're lookingfor?
I guess the right profile can't be reallyadvertised.
(09:59):
It is like an experienced interviewer couldfind the right person out from an unusual
but interesting CV for example, and also fromface to face interviews.
That's why I personally owned it.
HR only filtered the applications when itwas really obvious but the person just wanted
to have an application for the job center.
(10:20):
So I actually I address but I want to be inpurchasing or for example.
But my philosophy I guess was really whenyou know how to buy, you can buy everything.
Of course there are exceptions.
I mean jobs where you need physical or naturalskills, sense of taste and sensitive senses
(10:43):
of smell when you are a coffee or cacao buyeror for example also when you have to buy ingredients
and flavors for example the perfume industry.
But I guess for me it was the mix of people.
It was also important and it's Meredith Belbinactually once described his nine roles of
(11:04):
good teams.
And there was a resource, he called resourceinvestigator, team worker, a plant planted
like seeding and growing.
He wanted to evaluate, shape, implement whatever,complete or finisher.
(11:26):
Actually I took it simply cause I'm not aprofessor.
So I always had a vision person.
Sometimes it was me, sometimes [it] was anotherperson.
And that work [is] very important.
I also have a very good example.
An [implementation] person being able to implementeverything and also person who's analyzing
it, in a structured way.
(11:47):
And of course, someone that is the good soulof the team.
So the person who can always have the abilityto connect all the team members even if they
are totally different.
And I guess these are five roles you shouldhave in a very successful purchasing team.
So you mentioned that person who is a networker.
(12:10):
So that's interesting because in a previouspodcast, we discussed about the importance
for procurement to build a network internallyand with suppliers.
So could you develop a little bit that, andyou mentioned that you have an example so
maybe you can give that example to explainmore of that role in particular.
(12:31):
I remember when I started back at Sunrisein the telecommunication industry, the key
account manager of a big telecom network infrastructureprovider.
That guy had, I'm probably remembering correctly,that guy had 216 direct contacts to the company.
(12:55):
He knew everything much, much better thananybody in the company.
He knew exactly what the CEO is doing, theCFO, what the CMO, the CTO, whatever.
And he knew what strategy we have.
So he knew and actually everything.
And so how can it be that a supplier knowsmuch more than anybody else in the company.
(13:18):
But that's why I said that's clear.
He was an incredible professional networker.
But that's why I had one guy, my team then,which I hired coming from Siemens.
And that guy was like, he was everywhere.
Every party, always, you have to go becauseyou have to control what our marketing guys
(13:40):
say, what our network people say.
You have to go to supplier events and getinformation, collect them.
And from that time on, actually we add thebest and the first knowledge what's gonna
happen on the market before anybody else inthe company.
And that's why I guess it's important to havea network.
(14:01):
No it's interesting.
It's like underground business intelligence.
If I hear correctly.
Somehow quite
Well is this...
So we see that you have several roles in yourteams and then you need to identify, even
on paper, those profiles might look the same.
They might not fall into the same role andthen at the end you need a team that makes
(14:27):
sense.
Right.
That's what I hear from what you said.
And I have a question though, and you mentionedthat briefly before the fact that there are
limitations to on certain categories.
So I would just expand that as this.
Is it true for all categories beyond thoselimitations that you mentioned?
And then are there specificities in the profilethat you seek for a company like yours today
(14:53):
for Stash for instance?
Are there some specificities today?
I guess first of all, for us actually it isreally important to see trends here to emphasize
how customers [behave].
And also as a startup actually you have tosell hope.
Okay?
So you never know when your money is awayand the bird rate is too high, whatever.
(15:17):
But that's, for us, important.
Nevertheless.
I guess, to the first part of your questionabout: is it all categories?
As I mentioned before, also you can't reallydo that everywhere.
Because when you are working in government,for example, it might be different.
When you're working in the financial industry,it might be different.
When you're working in, for example, the tobaccoindustry, it might be different again.
(15:42):
That's why I guess you have to know reallywhat industry you are.
What are, let's say, the most important pointsyou have to consider for your own function?
And that's why you can't say, yeah, category,IT is everywhere the same, it's not.
So even it might be totally different whenyou are working in government.
(16:04):
Yeah.
So it's kind of a foundation that you canbuild on.
Be clear that what is important actually isbeyond the right profile on paper, is to make
sure that that person has the right mindset,the right attitude to procurement and then
(16:26):
that you have the right roles for your teamin your industry, in your category, in your
type of company.
That's what I understand.
So it's kind of (16:33):
be flexible.
There is not one fits all team that worksfor everyone.
And you said before, based on your goal, youwant to be successful as a procurement team.
That's kind of the ultimate question.
I hope as procurement leaders we want to besuccessful, right.
I hope that's the case, but yeah, that's notalways.
(16:54):
And some, sometimes actually it's really likethe feeling you might have as an interviewer.
I remember a guy actually.
He was harvesting kiwis and whatever in NewZealand and before he was working in a bar
as a waiter, wait no, it was a discotheque,right?
(17:14):
A disco, club and a nightclub.
He was working as a waiter and collectingmoney and saving money for his world trip,
whatever.
And that guy, he could not speak English atthat time.
So he went on a world tour without being ableto speak English.
(17:36):
And I said like a guy actually on the worldtour, getting back and finding always a solution
for every situation in his life or on hisjourney might be an interesting person.
So I invited him for an interview and thatguy became one of our most creative executives
(17:57):
in my purchasing team.
And still, he's still the most creative personI know actually working or used to work in
purchasing.
Yeah, actually no, nobody probably would haveinvited him to an interview.
Really nobody.
Yeah, I hear you.
You have to see really beyond the profileon paper.
(18:20):
So on that, I can totally, I agree with youtotally.
I don't think that someone would have hiredme in procurement if I said so before because
of my profile, but here I am.
So where do you find the right profiles foryour procurement role?
Is it your network?
Do you have spontaneous candidates, internetplatforms, headhunters?
(18:42):
How do you go to find these profiles?
Oh, I probably, I used all of them reallybased sometimes on the time constraints you
have.
I used headhunters.
[It] was the right choice.
(19:03):
I used sometimes thousands of interviews untilyou only have your right candidate for the
challenging job.
I mean, I remember also there a guy, alsothe interesting example, he was actually unemployed
(19:23):
when I invited him for the interview.
He was unemployed.
He came for a very, very small company.
Maybe 15 people.
We used to purchase I guess little screensor whatever for the car navigation system.
That said, if somebody has to struggle everyday: we've been tiny and getting still never
(19:49):
nevertheless being able to get very good prices,very good conditions, whatever from Asia.
Although you are very small and you're strugglingand doing and working and fighting.
I invited that guy.
He was half Spanish half German, I guess.
And first interview was like, he was verynervous, but he seemed very clever, very smart.
(20:15):
The second interview I told him, I felt hewas really nervous at the last time and he
said, Yeah, yeah, are you right?
And in the middle of the second interviewI said, Hey, you are half Spanish right?
Yes.
Okay what would you say if I say now (20:32):
step on the table and dance flamenco for me, please.
And this immediate answer was like (20:39):
Yes Mr. Akyol, if you dance with me, of course, I
will do it.
And I said okay, you're hired.
So it depends [on] the attitude, how fasthe can react and that's much more important
than somebody he would be totally astonished.
(21:03):
Very interesting question.
That's why I guess it's really the feeling.
It's not clear what is the best choice.
Yeah.
So that's why it's hard.
You have to go around, do interviews and meetpeople.
We said that before, it's not what they haveon paper.
It's really the mindset, the attitude.
That's what I understand.
(21:23):
And he's now really head of worldwide purchasingof a really big banking company, bank.
So the attitude was all it was.
So if for newcomers to the procurement community,and I know that there are quite a lot that
are listening to you and watching the podcast.
(21:44):
Do you have any advice on how to grow as abuyer when you don't have the technical knowledge
of the product or the service that you'resupposed to buy?
I guess remembering that, what Steve Jobsonce said?
Stay hungry, stay foolish.
Okay it's not the same but it's somehow validalso for the part of a buyer as well.
(22:09):
I always listen carefully and ask a lot.
The more you ask, the more you know.
Listen and ask the supplier, listen and askyour colleagues and sometimes listen and ask
yourself (22:21):
am I doing really the right thing?
But I guess I found out that many people donot listen because they want to make the case
and do not ask because they then believe theircompetence will be questioned.
But I guess we found listening carefully andasking you don't learn that was somehow the
(22:43):
same way at school.
That's very true.
And I agree with you on that fact that youcan learn every day, even if you are an established
leader or a seasoned professional, you canstill learn even about your own subject matter
(23:07):
because things are changing, new methodologiesare coming in.
So it's always an opportunity to learn moreor educate yourself on things that you might
think it's not right.
And then to discover it is all the other wayaround.
So I think this
True
So besides recruitment, what is the most challengingtask for a procurement leader?
(23:31):
For instance, what is the most challengingtask for you right now in your current position?
I mean in the current position of course itis really, it's the money, okay.
It is to sell hope.
It is getting the, let's say, very good conditionsor similar conditions like the big retailers,
(23:56):
or without having, even without having a percent,1% of the volumes you can order.
I mean, this is something which is the mostchallenging.
How can you let the companies deliver to eachof our warehouses we have everywhere in the
cities.
(24:16):
And that's why I guess that's the most challengingpart of it.
How to convince, how to convince the big playerson the market to deliver attractive prices
to the products actually.
Yeah,
That's my personal, very challenging.
No, no, I can relate to that.
Trust me.
(24:37):
Get the big players to trust a small startup.
Yes, I can do that.
Correct, correct.
And then to the first part of your question,actually the most challenging is probably
being accepted at eye level with the otherexecutives.
Still, many people believe that everybodycan buy as they do in the supermarket.
(24:59):
And there also, I remember a very good statementof a former CEO which I had.
I was like typical.
The typical (25:11):
hey you play the back cop and I'm the good cop.
And that's why, I was in an elevator withthe CEO and he told me that sentence as well:
Hey Aslan ya, how?
Yeah, bad cop, good cop.
And then hey, I told him that he can ask hiswife to play the bad cops if he wants and
I don't need to play.
(25:32):
I know what I want and how to convince thesuppliers.
He frowned slightly, smiled a little bit cheaplyand the door of the elevator opened.
So that was a typical really example wherewhile most of the executives have always the
same.
And nobody would say that, for example, toa marketing guy, nobody would say that to
(25:55):
a financial guy or nobody would say that toa CIO for example.
It's always like everybody (26:01):
[it] must be I'm easy.
I mean I'm going to the supermarket and buy.
Okay.
That's why.
And seeing in the TV and Hollywood movies: bad cop, good cop and always that, okay, yes. (26:08):
undefined
This is the most challenging to explain, orsay to.
Having also that eye level.
I mean nobody would answer the CEO (26:20):
Go and ask your wife.
Okay.
So you have to have also this, let's say whatyou call it, a standing really.
And also believe in yourself in order to havesuch an answer to your own CEO
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Now it's time for the takeaway.
(26:40):
So if there was one thing that you want ourlisteners to remember from that conversation,
what would that be?
I guess especially that's for the recruitmentfor procurement.
Don't believe what you read.
Just believe what you personally see or hearor [the] reactions you are faced with in an
(27:06):
interview or a video call.
So take your time to find the right role orright person for the position you need in
order to have an effective team and not justfill up the vacancy because you're looking
now already for eight weeks.
Yeah.
that's a takeaway.
It's better to wait.
Yeah.
It's all about mindset, fit with your teamsand yourself, and attitude.
(27:30):
I think it's a very good way to summarizewhat we've said in that conversation.
Thank you.
Thank you for your time.
That was very interesting and I'm sure thatour listeners will be, as you were mentioning
before, I think that they will feel that theyare not losing their time.
Thank you.
(27:51):
Hope so.
Okay.
Thank you all.
Bye
Now it's your turn to tell us about your experienceand new challenges when hiring the right profiles
for your procurement group in the commentsection.
Don't forget to subscribe if you want to benotified when a new episode is out.
Thank you for listening and I hope you enjoythis episode.
And if that's the case, don't forget to giveus a thumbs up.
(28:12):
So happy sourcing
to you all and au revoir.
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