March 13, 2023 • 27 mins
Remember, we welcome comments, questions, and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs@gmail.com.
S4E9 TRANSCRIPT:----more----
Yucca: Welcome back to the Wonder Science-Based Paganism. I'm one of your hosts Yucca,
Mark: and I'm the other one. Mark,
Yucca: and today it's time to talk about the Equinox.
Mark: Yes, we have arrived.
Yucca: Yep. So I think a good place to start is of course, well, what is this Equinox thing
Mark: right? Yeah, well, the, the, the, the Latin roots of the word of course mean equal night which implies what it is, which is that at the equator anyway.
Mm-hmm. , the days and the nights are equal, equal in length. They're both 12 hours long. Now, as you get further up in the latitudes, that changes a little bit, but by and large, the days are roughly the same length as the nights. Right at this point in the year. Yeah.
Yucca: And for both of us, we're in the Northern Hemisphere.
Mm-hmm. . So this is going into the spring for us. And on the calendars, the Equinox marks the first day of spring. . However, that's gonna really depend on your climate as to whether it's actually spring or not, right? So for you, it is, right? It's been
Mark: spring. It's been spring for a while. All the fruit trees are blooming.
The early wildflowers are up. The hills are all green. The creeks are all roaring with water because we've. Big banner, year for rain here in California, thankfully. Mm-hmm. . So yes, spring has been here for a while, and the February holiday, which has many names that I call River Rain really was a rain holiday this year.
So that was the beginning of our spring, right? This is the height of spring for us. But for you,
Yucca: It's, it's the time of year where it can't quite make up its mind, whether it's spring or winter, it feels like spring. Some of the time the, the bird songs have come, the spring bird songs are here, and that's what makes it really feel like spring, but, We won't have in terms of plant growth and things like that, that won't, we're still a ways out for that.
We won't be getting flowers. A few of. There aren't many deciduous trees here. A few of them you can start to see just the tiniest hints of maybe they're starting to wake up, make some little mm-hmm. thinking about moving in that direction. But it, it won't be past until past Beltane that we stop freezing every night.
Mm-hmm. it won't be till mid May. Really? Yeah. But it, it's feeling like spring is gonna be, . It's like we're almost there. There's more light. There's the birds starting to sing. The, the males are getting their colors back. Mm-hmm. , right? The ones that stay here in the winter of the, the songbirds that get very muted and dull in the winter.
which I think is a, just a way of protecting themselves. Sure. They don't, they're not needing to be mating, so it's better to blend in and be a little bit less visible to those coyotes and
Mark: fox. You don't wanna be dancing around wearing red feathers on top of snow. That's a bad strategy. Yeah. .
Yucca: So, but it, it definitely is starting to.
like spring is coming, but it's not quite there. Mm-hmm. . So
Mark: do you have the smell of spring yet?
Yucca: You know, spring doesn't have a really distinctive smell to me. Ah. Like it, there definitely are smells that are springy, but it's not like, you know, here we have like a very monsoon smell and there's a definitely a smell for winter, but, I don't think so. Not really.
Mark: Well here we have a lot of flowering trees and the chairing blossoms and the apple blossoms and things like that.
, they have a smell. Mm-hmm. and there's, so there's a particular distinctive and also a lot of people plant ornamentals like jasmine and things like that around here. So they're these really perfum
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:32):
Welcome back to the WonderScience-Based Paganism.
I'm wondering if your host Yucca,
and I'm the other one.
Mark,
and today it's time totalk about the Equinox.
Yes, we have arrived.
Yep.
So I think a good place to start is ofcourse, well, what is this Equinox thing
(00:54):
right?
Yeah, well, the, the, the, the Latinroots of the word of course mean
equal night which implies what it is,which is that at the equator anyway.
Mm-hmm.
, the days and the nightsare equal, equal in length.
They're both 12 hours long.
Now, as you get further up in thelatitudes, that changes a little
(01:15):
bit, but by and large, the days areroughly the same length as the nights.
Right at this point in the year.
Yeah.
And for both of us, we'rein the Northern Hemisphere.
Mm-hmm.
. So this is going into the spring for us.
And on the calendars, the Equinoxmarks the first day of spring.
(01:40):
. However, that's gonna really dependon your climate as to whether it's
actually spring or not, right?
So for you, it is, right?
It's been
spring.
It's been spring for a while.
All the fruit trees are blooming.
The early wildflowers are up.
The hills are all green.
The creeks are all roaringwith water because we've.
(02:01):
Big banner, year for rain herein California, thankfully.
Mm-hmm.
. So yes, spring has been here for awhile, and the February holiday, which
has many names that I call River Rainreally was a rain holiday this year.
So that was the beginningof our spring, right?
This is the height of spring for us.
But for you,
(02:23):
It's, it's the time of year where itcan't quite make up its mind, whether it's
spring or winter, it feels like spring.
Some of the time the, the bird songs havecome, the spring bird songs are here,
and that's what makes it really feel likespring, but, We won't have in terms of
(02:43):
plant growth and things like that, thatwon't, we're still a ways out for that.
We won't be getting flowers.
A few of.
There aren't many deciduous trees here.
A few of them you can start tosee just the tiniest hints of
maybe they're starting to wakeup, make some little mm-hmm.
(03:03):
thinking about moving in that direction.
But it, it won't be past until pastBeltane that we stop freezing every night.
Mm-hmm.
it won't be till mid May.
Really?
Yeah.
But it, it's feeling like spring isgonna be, . It's like we're almost there.
There's more light.
There's the birds starting to sing.
The, the males aregetting their colors back.
(03:25):
Mm-hmm.
, right?
The ones that stay here in thewinter of the, the songbirds that get
very muted and dull in the winter.
which I think is a, just away of protecting themselves.
Sure.
They don't, they're not needingto be mating, so it's better
to blend in and be a little bitless visible to those coyotes and
(03:45):
fox.
You don't wanna be dancing aroundwearing red feathers on top of snow.
That's a bad strategy.
Yeah.
. So, but it, it definitely is starting to.
like spring is coming,but it's not quite there.
Mm-hmm.
. So
do you have the smell of spring yet?
(04:06):
You know, spring doesn't have areally distinctive smell to me.
Ah.
Like it, there definitely are smellsthat are springy, but it's not like, you
know, here we have like a very monsoonsmell and there's a definitely a smell
for winter, but, I don't think so.
Not really.
(04:27):
Well here we have a lot of floweringtrees and the chairing blossoms and the
apple blossoms and things like that.
, they have a smell.
Mm-hmm.
and there's, so there's a particulardistinctive and also a lot of people
plant ornamentals like jasmineand things like that around here.
So they're these really perfumeybeautiful kind of spring.
(04:48):
I
love the smell of jasmine.
Yeah.
It's So we have.
You know, when you start to catch thatperfume on the air, you realize, okay,
you know, the, the year has started.
We are, we're definitely in the activecycle now of, of things going again.
So why don't we talk a little bit aboutwhat the Equinox means to us, what we
(05:09):
call it, what we associate with it?
Mm-hmm.
. Well, I usually use.
Spring Equinox or first spring.
And for us it's a time where there's,there's those themes of beginning and,
and you know, new planting, although alot of the planting won't come till later.
(05:32):
But some of the things will, willstart planting, you know, if, if you
want any tomatoes, they actually hadto have been plant a couple weeks ago,
frankly, to get them to really be ready.
But this is a time that we.
Often celebrate the birds becausethe birds are coming back.
This is when the chickens, they laysome in the winter, but really it's
(05:54):
not until the light starts to come backthat they start laying again as much.
And it's a really a celebrationof those of the birds and egg
layers and, and things like that.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Nice.
For me, it's it's about newbeginnings and starting to move again.
(06:17):
, you know, the, the earlier holidaysin the year have been very much
about sort of dreaming and planningand imagining, but now is when
we start to actually take action.
Mm-hmm.
, I mean, it's pouring down rainwhere I am right now, but you know,
generally you, you, you can gooutside now and have a pretty good
(06:40):
chance of not getting rained on.
And The, the soil is all wet, soit's easy to dig and, you know, for
gardens and agriculture and things likethat, it's just a time to get going.
But I also associate this timewith the, the passage of the year
from the dark half of the yearinto the light half of the year.
Mm-hmm.
(07:00):
. And so this transition pointbecomes the moment of balance.
The point of balance, and one thingthat I do on the equinoxes is think
about the balances in my life.
not necessarily to make any changesin them, but just to kind of check
in and see what I think about them.
Mm-hmm.
, how's my work life balance?
(07:21):
How's my relationship, personal time,balance, you know, those sorts of things.
And if I discover that there's somethingI'm unsatisfied with, then I take
action to make something different.
Mm-hmm.
. Yeah.
That's beautiful.
I think that's a reallyimportant thing that.
for all times of the year, right.
(07:42):
To be thinking about balance.
Mm-hmm.
. But I think it's helpful to havea specific time in which each
that is dedicated to that, that'sreally about focusing on that.
And I think that's the case withmany of the things that we celebrate
throughout the Wheel of the year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I agree.
I mean, that's one of the thingsthat really attracted me to
(08:04):
Paganism when I first got into it,is, okay, there's a moment for.
Morning and grief.
There's a moment, you know, forcontemplating our mortality.
There's a, a moment forcelebrating sexuality.
There's a moment for contemp asI celebrate it for celebrating
children and celebrating olderpeople and, you know, for celebrating
(08:28):
decomposition and, you know, allthe creatures that do that for us.
To me, , that's just such a reality basedkind of a spiritual practice, right?
Having that time in the year andPaganism isn't, isn't alone in that.
I mean, one of the things thatPaganism doesn't have the Judaism has,
(08:51):
for example, is a Day of atonement.
Mm-hmm.
, where, you know, basically you're gonnatry to square the accounts with everybody
who you feel like you may have wronged.
And I can see a value in that.
It hasn't really plugged into my wheelof the year, but I can see a value in it.
Mm-hmm.
. So, you know, I mean, I associate thistime of year with a lot of the sort
(09:13):
of traditional seasonal symbols likeflowers and birds and eggs, colored eggs.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, those sorts of things.
But the deep meanings of it are,Moving into action, new beginnings,
new hope, really, because, you know,there's that, that aspiration quality
(09:34):
to starting a new cycle, right?
You know, may maybe the crop will bereally, really rich and we'll just
have a great time next winter, right?
And so I like doing those thingslike dying eggs and, you know, all.
kind of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
. I do associate this time ofyear as the children's holiday.
(09:57):
Mm-hmm.
, not little kids.
Infants and toddlers are morelike the February holiday sort
of thing, but grade school kids.
, you know, up to age 10,11, something like that.
Right.
Like, like children before,not teenagers yet, right?
Not toddlers.
There's really that, that timeperiod that we think of as childhood.
(10:20):
Yes, yes.
And so I think of this time as thetime to celebrate those members of the
community and also a time to let down our.
Dignity and stiffness andplay like a child, right?
Play childlike games danceand sing , stuff like that.
(10:42):
It's good for you,
I think it is.
Yep.
I like that.
You have a moment in the year that is toconnect with that and to focus on that.
. I won't claim that I'm super good at it because, you know, I tend to live in my
head and my childhood was pretty unhappy,so I never really learned how to be a kid
very well, but I'm trying to catch up.
(11:05):
Hmm.
. Yeah.
We have, well, my life haslittle kids in it, so every day.
Mm-hmm.
every day is little kids day.
Right.
But we'll see as, as they grow.
If that's something that we start toincorporate into this time of the year.
(11:26):
Mm-hmm.
. But for now, shoots and ladders isa weekly, is a weekly experience.
Right.
, and Candy Land more often.
Uhhuh, . So
yeah.
Yeah.
Those are actually the games that Iown for playing at this time of year.
Yep.
And you.
It's been a few years now because ofCovid and other things, but when I've
held gatherings around these themesand to play these games with adults,
(11:51):
you would be amazed at how cutthroatadults can get at shoots and ladders.
I mean, Candyland is fully randomized, so.
There's, there's no strategyinvolved, but shoots and ladders.
Boy,
. . Yeah.
Hmm.
So, Yucca, what kinds of ritualthings do you do at this time of year?
(12:15):
Yeah, so for the holidays, . So Ihave a mixture of what do I do as my
individual self and what do I do asthe, my part is the family, right?
Mm-hmm.
, because a lot of my role thereis, you know, guiding these young
people and their experience andtaking care of them on that.
(12:37):
So I, I make a point for the holidaysto take some time for myself to.
Reflection and, and that sort of thing.
And kind of just a, a private ritual.
But I don't have any, it, it'sanything that's really settled in
for me of this is what I do everyyear the way I do for mm-hmm.
(12:59):
like hollows or something like that.
But this is a, just a verybusy time of year for.
When we're doing a lot of, of beginningsthings like getting the seeds in the
ground or swapping out the positionsfor, so we're on solar panels, so we
have to go up and change the positionof the panels and roll out the shade
(13:21):
protection and you, you know, takedown all of these different things.
We just make a point of being verymindful in doing those things, even
though it's a busy time of year.
Mm-hmm.
, it's a, Hey, this is what we're doingand this is why we're doing it, and.
taking moments to notice mm-hmm.
(13:42):
, even in the busyness of it.
And that's, that's a bigpart of what we're doing.
And I think that that's something thatwe're always doing all year round, but
it feels different now because it's adifferent time of the year and there's,
there's an excitement element to it.
Mm-hmm.
, which is something that I just noticeabout this time of year because there's
(14:02):
so much that has been being planned.
and now we can actually startdoing a lot of those things.
Or at least we're close to beingable to do a lot of those things.
Right.
The warm weather is coming.
It's obvious that it's on its way.
Yeah.
So you can start to anticipatethings you can do in the summer.
(14:23):
Right.
Stuff like that.
And there's things that I can gooutside and do with just a sweater on.
In some of the warm day because wereally, we'll go back and forth in
this time of year between, we'll havedays that are in the thirties and
then we'll have days in the fifties.
Mm-hmm.
. Right.
And so if we're in the fiftiesafter a long winter, it's like,
(14:45):
oh yeah, this is, this is summer.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, it's take all, everything off.
But it just is so much easierto, to work outside, even if.
Even if it's still alittle bit chilly, it's.
Feels very different thanin the dead of winter.
So back in February, February and inJanuary just absolutely bitter for us.
(15:05):
Sure, sure.
Just so, so bitter and now it'slike, okay, no, I can, I can
do stuff and you know, I can,the ground isn't totally solid.
Yeah,
it's so hard.
It's always hard andthe sun isn't so weak.
Yeah.
I mean, to me that's the big thing aboutDecember, January is it's like the sun
is so long and even when you're sittingin it in full sun, it's just this, this
(15:29):
very mild sort of beat on your skin.
Whereas where you are in NewMexico in the summertime, it's
like a hammer on your head.
Step outside in August, it's like,boom, you've been hit by something.
We get our, our temperatures are stillquite mild because we're so high.
I'm at 7,000 feet Uhhuh . Butthe UV is intense.
(15:50):
Yeah, right.
The sun is really, really intensebecause there's, you know, that's
seven, that's 7,000 feet of atmospherethat's not there protecting you.
Right.
So it's very, yeah.
We can be out in the middle of the daywhere in the summer, You know, just
don't be out in the middle of the day,even if it's only 85 or 90 degrees.
Just don't be, be inside, waituntil the morning or evening.
(16:14):
Yeah.
You're, you're below what Icall the siesta line . Yeah.
Which extends all the way around theworld actually, of, you know, when
you get to a certain point of thatintensity of the sun, it's like,
no, from two o'clock to about sixo'clock, we're just gonna take a break.
Yeah.
We'll come back at it later on.
Exactly.
And so, you know, there'sjust that excitement of going
(16:37):
into that time of year mm-hmm.
, because in the winter it's really flipped.
Right?
We wanna do the most that wecan in that time, um mm-hmm.
, so it's almost like, it, it always feelslike this little puzzle piece that fits
together, the winter and the summer.
And this is, this is the beginning of the.
of the light time of the year,of the bright time of the year.
(16:57):
Mm-hmm.
. So,
you know, it hadn't occurred to mebefore, but another thing that would,
as you talk about that, a natural themethat comes up for this time of year for
both of the Equinox is this integration.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, the putting togetherof pieces in your life which
is different from balance.
(17:19):
You know, balance, you tend to have thingsthat are relatively separate qualities.
They have boundaries between them andyou sort of adjust how much energy
you're putting into one or another.
Whereas integration, Imean, that can be all right.
I'm trying to bring my.
internal field of study, more intoconversations with my friends.
(17:42):
Mm-hmm.
, or I want to bring these two socialcircles together and see how they mesh.
Or I want to
practice a daily life.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
Yeah.
So I, that just occurred tome, and I don't know, . I think
there's something in that.
I'll have to think about it more.
(18:02):
Yeah.
So what about you for this time of year?
Do you have particular ritualsor practices that you like to do?
Well, other than, you know, thechildlike games, I do like to dye eggs.
Mm-hmm.
, I just, that's a really, reallyold tradition that extends
across continental Europe.
(18:23):
I don't think it ever got to.
The British Isles or Ireland?
I don't think you
know, I don't know one way or the other,I just kind of always assumed it did.
But I've never looked into that.
Maybe , but I know, I mean, the,the folks in Ukraine, you know,
the, the, they have the funky eggs.
(18:44):
Mm-hmm.
that they do with that lost waxprocess are just magnificent.
I have a goose egg fromUkraine that's decorated that
way and it's just beautiful.
Mm-hmm.
. But you know, this is the time whena lot of birds are laying eggs.
And so, that was thefirst high concentration.
protein source for people aftera long winter for many centuries.
(19:08):
So eggs were a pretty exciting prospect.
Yeah.
Oh, eggs are, eggs are wonderful.
They're, they're one of my favorites.
Mm-hmm.
, I really like eggs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The, so I, I like to dye eggs.
Mm-hmm.
, and.
. I don't know.
I've done differentthings in different years.
What I would prefer to do, my idealizedcelebration is to get together with
(19:34):
friends who have children mm-hmm.
you know, of, of those ages andjust kind of build the day around
them, play around them, makeraspberry lemonade and other sort of
non-alcoholic stuff for us to drink and.
and just celebrate the season inthat childlike, playful manner.
(19:57):
Mm-hmm.
, I've been able to pull thatoff a couple of times, but now
in post covid, not recently.
Right.
Well, as you were mentioningthe eggs, it, I thought to
bring up the Easter connection.
Oh, mm-hmm.
. So for us, I.
(20:17):
I don't really think about theEquinox and Easter together.
Like some of the other holidaysare a little bit more closely
tied, like, solstice and Christmas.
Mm-hmm.
right.
Or Hollows and Halloween, but Easter.
So we don't usually dye eggs for theEquinox, but the kids will go to their
grandmother's for Easter and thentheir other grandmother for Passover.
(20:41):
So those, like, they happen at a similartime of the year, but because those
are Looney Solar, , they move around.
Mm-hmm.
. Right?
So it's not like it's right on thesame day or right next, you know, the
day next to it or something like that.
Right.
And then we don't use the name O or whatare some of the other, there's some other
(21:03):
ones that are very similar sounding.
Well, there's one that's Ester, whichwas the Greek goddess of the dawn.
Right.
And all of.
as far as I can tell, all of that stuffabout o leading to Easter and all this.
As far as I can tell, it'smodern and apocryphal.
Mm-hmm.
, I don't think any of it isreally rooted in actual history.
(21:25):
Mm-hmm.
, but it doesn't really matter to me becausenot having kids I can get away with simply
not paying attention to Easter at all.
Yeah, it's just, I mean, usually I don'teven remember that it's Easter weekend.
I'm just not aware of it in the
least.
Well, and honestly, I don't either.
they just go with their dadto their grandmas and then
(21:48):
they come back sugared up.
And I do, actually, I mentionedthis on the round table that
will be published soon as.
So on the YouTube channel,oh, we did a round table.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just a tip for any parents outthere, one of the things that we have
started doing is to cut back on thejust enormous amount of candy that
is associated with that holiday.
We're putting Legos inside of someof the Easter eggs so that they still
(22:12):
get some candy so that they don't feelleft out, but they're also not getting.
You know, a year's worthof candy in one day.
And then they still get the coolthing as they get the Legos that
they can put together and thenthat lasts them longer anyway.
Still have the Legos for years.
Whereas the candy, they'lljust eat and feel sick.
Right.
Right.
So that's just a little,the little tip for that.
(22:33):
Yeah,
it's a good idea.
But that, you mean, youmean inside the plastic?
Inside the plastic eggs, yeah.
Yeah.
So they'll, they'll die a few and,and paint them hard boiled eggs.
Mm-hmm.
, but.
Then they'll also find some plasticeggs that, you know, we've saved the
same little plastic eggs for every year.
They've had the same, the same littleplastic eggs that have survived since
(22:56):
their dad was a kid in the eighties.
You know, so
Well.
That's good.
They're not in the landfill.
That's, yeah, that's
important.
I mean, they, they willbe eventually one day.
That's what happensto, of course, plastic.
But yeah.
Yeah.
So there's, it's one of those holidaysthat is close enough to one of the
the secular or Christian holidays.
(23:18):
Christian holidays, yeah.
Whereas other ones that we talk aboutsometimes, you know, there's not, like in
August, there's not really a holiday that.
ties in very well.
Not when the, the, theCatholics observe llamas.
Mm-hmm.
. And that's a, that's a thing if you'rean actively practicing Catholic.
But
(23:38):
well, depends on how, how,how actively practicing.
Yeah.
I suppose that's, it's different likelevels of being a, of how involved you
are with those holidays as a Catholic.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I come from, mycommunity is very Catholic and
that's, , that's not one of the ones.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm sure that they say somethingabout it at Mass, but you know, that's
(24:00):
not really what happens in the community.
So.
Yeah.
I mean, I can't imagine there being awhole lot of hoop law at the beginning of
August in New Mexico anyway, because it's.
Well, we, we are inmonsoons at that point.
Oh, that's true.
Right.
But that's not like the start of monsoons.
It's a, again, it's a, my partis because New Mexico is huge,
(24:22):
one has to remember That's true.
There's, it's, if you're up in thehigh desert where I am versus the
low desert, and then whether you,which, you know, side of the state
you're on is very, very different.
Mm-hmm.
. But it, it's, and I guess maybe it'sjust what you're used to, like, I
don't think it's a very big deal.
I guess if someone came to visitfrom one of the coasts, they might
(24:44):
feel like it's particularly hot.
Well it depends.
I mean, last summer we had aweek where the daily temperature
averaged something like 97 degrees.
Mm-hmm.
and that included a coupleof days that were over 110.
Yeah.
I can't remember a singletime that my regions.
(25:05):
Temperature down south.
Neither can we, like that's a,a few times a year we, we go
over a hundred, but that's it.
Oh, I see.
And it will be in, it will be in August.
But again, it's justbecause we're so high up.
Right, right.
I mean, we're higher, we'resignificantly higher than Denver, so.
Mm-hmm.
. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(25:25):
So.
In any case talking, we'll, we'll talkabout the August before we know it.
Yes, before we know it, we willbe talking about the dimming
holiday or summers waning or lusaor whatever you want to call it.
But for now it's the SpringEquinox coming right up.
And we hope that you havegotten useful ideas out of our
(25:49):
conversation here about this.
. It is a very meaningful time andI've been to some very beautiful
gatherings that have happenedfor this holiday in the past.
It snowed one year.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, it has often rained . Thisis in the mountains of Mendocino
County, north of where I am.
But we've always had areally joyous get together.
(26:11):
. And I hope that our listeners do too,whether it's solitary or something that
you do with your family and friends.
Yep.
And thanks for taking thetime to join us here today.
And.
, we really appreciate,appreciate all of you.
We
do check out that round tableon the u the YouTube channel.
We're now posting stuff to the YouTubechannel every week, and there's
(26:34):
new stuff happening also last week.
, I mentioned that it would'vebeen great if we were able to
have more presence on Instagram.
And two very wonderful, very qualifiedpeople immediately emailed me and
said, Hey, I would like to do that.
Yeah.
So,
It's Fanta it was amazing.
(26:55):
It, it was, we are so psyched about this
, And within hours of each other, It was like, right?
Oh yeah.
It was boom.
It was instantaneous.
Yeah.
So thank you to Tazi and Zoe for youryour volunteering to do that and check
out the atheopagan Instagram account.
We're we're posting stuff again.
Yep.
(27:17):
All right.
So thanks everybody.
Thank you,
mark.
Thank you Yucca.
We'll see you next week.
Welcome back to the WonderScience-Based Paganism.
I'm wondering if your host Yucca,
and I'm the other one.
Mark,
and today it's time totalk about the Equinox.
Yes, we have arrived.
Yep.
So I think a good place to start is ofcourse, well, what is this Equinox thing
(00:54):
right?
Yeah, well, the, the, the, the Latinroots of the word of course mean
equal night which implies what it is,which is that at the equator anyway.
Mm-hmm.
, the days and the nightsare equal, equal in length.
They're both 12 hours long.
Now, as you get further up in thelatitudes, that changes a little
(01:15):
bit, but by and large, the days areroughly the same length as the nights.
Right at this point in the year.
Yeah.
And for both of us, we'rein the Northern Hemisphere.
Mm-hmm.
. So this is going into the spring for us.
And on the calendars, the Equinoxmarks the first day of spring.
(01:40):
. However, that's gonna really dependon your climate as to whether it's
actually spring or not, right?
So for you, it is, right?
It's been
spring.
It's been spring for a while.
All the fruit trees are blooming.
The early wildflowers are up.
The hills are all green.
The creeks are all roaringwith water because we've.
(02:01):
Big banner, year for rain herein California, thankfully.
Mm-hmm.
. So yes, spring has been here for awhile, and the February holiday, which
has many names that I call River Rainreally was a rain holiday this year.
So that was the beginningof our spring, right?
This is the height of spring for us.
But for you,
(02:23):
It's, it's the time of year where itcan't quite make up its mind, whether it's
spring or winter, it feels like spring.
Some of the time the, the bird songs havecome, the spring bird songs are here,
and that's what makes it really feel likespring, but, We won't have in terms of
(02:43):
plant growth and things like that, thatwon't, we're still a ways out for that.
We won't be getting flowers.
A few of.
There aren't many deciduous trees here.
A few of them you can start tosee just the tiniest hints of
maybe they're starting to wakeup, make some little mm-hmm.
(03:03):
thinking about moving in that direction.
But it, it won't be past until pastBeltane that we stop freezing every night.
Mm-hmm.
it won't be till mid May.
Really?
Yeah.
But it, it's feeling like spring isgonna be, . It's like we're almost there.
There's more light.
There's the birds starting to sing.
The, the males aregetting their colors back.
(03:25):
Mm-hmm.
, right?
The ones that stay here in thewinter of the, the songbirds that get
very muted and dull in the winter.
which I think is a, just away of protecting themselves.
Sure.
They don't, they're not needingto be mating, so it's better
to blend in and be a little bitless visible to those coyotes and
(03:45):
fox.
You don't wanna be dancing aroundwearing red feathers on top of snow.
That's a bad strategy.
Yeah.
. So, but it, it definitely is starting to.
like spring is coming,but it's not quite there.
Mm-hmm.
. So
do you have the smell of spring yet?
(04:06):
You know, spring doesn't have areally distinctive smell to me.
Ah.
Like it, there definitely are smellsthat are springy, but it's not like, you
know, here we have like a very monsoonsmell and there's a definitely a smell
for winter, but, I don't think so.
Not really.
(04:27):
Well here we have a lot of floweringtrees and the chairing blossoms and the
apple blossoms and things like that.
, they have a smell.
Mm-hmm.
and there's, so there's a particulardistinctive and also a lot of people
plant ornamentals like jasmineand things like that around here.
So they're these really perfumeybeautiful kind of spring.
(04:48):
I
love the smell of jasmine.
Yeah.
It's So we have.
You know, when you start to catch thatperfume on the air, you realize, okay,
you know, the, the year has started.
We are, we're definitely in the activecycle now of, of things going again.
So why don't we talk a little bit aboutwhat the Equinox means to us, what we
(05:09):
call it, what we associate with it?
Mm-hmm.
. Well, I usually use.
Spring Equinox or first spring.
And for us it's a time where there's,there's those themes of beginning and,
and you know, new planting, although alot of the planting won't come till later.
(05:32):
But some of the things will, willstart planting, you know, if, if you
want any tomatoes, they actually hadto have been plant a couple weeks ago,
frankly, to get them to really be ready.
But this is a time that we.
Often celebrate the birds becausethe birds are coming back.
This is when the chickens, they laysome in the winter, but really it's
(05:54):
not until the light starts to come backthat they start laying again as much.
And it's a really a celebrationof those of the birds and egg
layers and, and things like that.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Nice.
For me, it's it's about newbeginnings and starting to move again.
(06:17):
, you know, the, the earlier holidaysin the year have been very much
about sort of dreaming and planningand imagining, but now is when
we start to actually take action.
Mm-hmm.
, I mean, it's pouring down rainwhere I am right now, but you know,
generally you, you, you can gooutside now and have a pretty good
(06:40):
chance of not getting rained on.
And The, the soil is all wet, soit's easy to dig and, you know, for
gardens and agriculture and things likethat, it's just a time to get going.
But I also associate this timewith the, the passage of the year
from the dark half of the yearinto the light half of the year.
Mm-hmm.
(07:00):
. And so this transition pointbecomes the moment of balance.
The point of balance, and one thingthat I do on the equinoxes is think
about the balances in my life.
not necessarily to make any changesin them, but just to kind of check
in and see what I think about them.
Mm-hmm.
, how's my work life balance?
(07:21):
How's my relationship, personal time,balance, you know, those sorts of things.
And if I discover that there's somethingI'm unsatisfied with, then I take
action to make something different.
Mm-hmm.
. Yeah.
That's beautiful.
I think that's a reallyimportant thing that.
for all times of the year, right.
(07:42):
To be thinking about balance.
Mm-hmm.
. But I think it's helpful to havea specific time in which each
that is dedicated to that, that'sreally about focusing on that.
And I think that's the case withmany of the things that we celebrate
throughout the Wheel of the year.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I agree.
I mean, that's one of the thingsthat really attracted me to
(08:04):
Paganism when I first got into it,is, okay, there's a moment for.
Morning and grief.
There's a moment, you know, forcontemplating our mortality.
There's a, a moment forcelebrating sexuality.
There's a moment for contemp asI celebrate it for celebrating
children and celebrating olderpeople and, you know, for celebrating
(08:28):
decomposition and, you know, allthe creatures that do that for us.
To me, , that's just such a reality basedkind of a spiritual practice, right?
Having that time in the year andPaganism isn't, isn't alone in that.
I mean, one of the things thatPaganism doesn't have the Judaism has,
(08:51):
for example, is a Day of atonement.
Mm-hmm.
, where, you know, basically you're gonnatry to square the accounts with everybody
who you feel like you may have wronged.
And I can see a value in that.
It hasn't really plugged into my wheelof the year, but I can see a value in it.
Mm-hmm.
. So, you know, I mean, I associate thistime of year with a lot of the sort
(09:13):
of traditional seasonal symbols likeflowers and birds and eggs, colored eggs.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, those sorts of things.
But the deep meanings of it are,Moving into action, new beginnings,
new hope, really, because, you know,there's that, that aspiration quality
(09:34):
to starting a new cycle, right?
You know, may maybe the crop will bereally, really rich and we'll just
have a great time next winter, right?
And so I like doing those thingslike dying eggs and, you know, all.
kind of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
. I do associate this time ofyear as the children's holiday.
(09:57):
Mm-hmm.
, not little kids.
Infants and toddlers are morelike the February holiday sort
of thing, but grade school kids.
, you know, up to age 10,11, something like that.
Right.
Like, like children before,not teenagers yet, right?
Not toddlers.
There's really that, that timeperiod that we think of as childhood.
(10:20):
Yes, yes.
And so I think of this time as thetime to celebrate those members of the
community and also a time to let down our.
Dignity and stiffness andplay like a child, right?
Play childlike games danceand sing , stuff like that.
(10:42):
It's good for you,
I think it is.
Yep.
I like that.
You have a moment in the year that is toconnect with that and to focus on that.
. I won't claim that I'm super good at it because, you know, I tend to live in my
head and my childhood was pretty unhappy,so I never really learned how to be a kid
very well, but I'm trying to catch up.
(11:05):
Hmm.
. Yeah.
We have, well, my life haslittle kids in it, so every day.
Mm-hmm.
every day is little kids day.
Right.
But we'll see as, as they grow.
If that's something that we start toincorporate into this time of the year.
(11:26):
Mm-hmm.
. But for now, shoots and ladders isa weekly, is a weekly experience.
Right.
, and Candy Land more often.
Uhhuh, . So
yeah.
Yeah.
Those are actually the games that Iown for playing at this time of year.
Yep.
And you.
It's been a few years now because ofCovid and other things, but when I've
held gatherings around these themesand to play these games with adults,
(11:51):
you would be amazed at how cutthroatadults can get at shoots and ladders.
I mean, Candyland is fully randomized, so.
There's, there's no strategyinvolved, but shoots and ladders.
Boy,
. . Yeah.
Hmm.
So, Yucca, what kinds of ritualthings do you do at this time of year?
(12:15):
Yeah, so for the holidays, . So Ihave a mixture of what do I do as my
individual self and what do I do asthe, my part is the family, right?
Mm-hmm.
, because a lot of my role thereis, you know, guiding these young
people and their experience andtaking care of them on that.
(12:37):
So I, I make a point for the holidaysto take some time for myself to.
Reflection and, and that sort of thing.
And kind of just a, a private ritual.
But I don't have any, it, it'sanything that's really settled in
for me of this is what I do everyyear the way I do for mm-hmm.
(12:59):
like hollows or something like that.
But this is a, just a verybusy time of year for.
When we're doing a lot of, of beginningsthings like getting the seeds in the
ground or swapping out the positionsfor, so we're on solar panels, so we
have to go up and change the positionof the panels and roll out the shade
(13:21):
protection and you, you know, takedown all of these different things.
We just make a point of being verymindful in doing those things, even
though it's a busy time of year.
Mm-hmm.
, it's a, Hey, this is what we're doingand this is why we're doing it, and.
taking moments to notice mm-hmm.
(13:42):
, even in the busyness of it.
And that's, that's a bigpart of what we're doing.
And I think that that's something thatwe're always doing all year round, but
it feels different now because it's adifferent time of the year and there's,
there's an excitement element to it.
Mm-hmm.
, which is something that I just noticeabout this time of year because there's
(14:02):
so much that has been being planned.
and now we can actually startdoing a lot of those things.
Or at least we're close to beingable to do a lot of those things.
Right.
The warm weather is coming.
It's obvious that it's on its way.
Yeah.
So you can start to anticipatethings you can do in the summer.
(14:23):
Right.
Stuff like that.
And there's things that I can gooutside and do with just a sweater on.
In some of the warm day because wereally, we'll go back and forth in
this time of year between, we'll havedays that are in the thirties and
then we'll have days in the fifties.
Mm-hmm.
. Right.
And so if we're in the fiftiesafter a long winter, it's like,
(14:45):
oh yeah, this is, this is summer.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, it's take all, everything off.
But it just is so much easierto, to work outside, even if.
Even if it's still alittle bit chilly, it's.
Feels very different thanin the dead of winter.
So back in February, February and inJanuary just absolutely bitter for us.
(15:05):
Sure, sure.
Just so, so bitter and now it'slike, okay, no, I can, I can
do stuff and you know, I can,the ground isn't totally solid.
Yeah,
it's so hard.
It's always hard andthe sun isn't so weak.
Yeah.
I mean, to me that's the big thing aboutDecember, January is it's like the sun
is so long and even when you're sittingin it in full sun, it's just this, this
(15:29):
very mild sort of beat on your skin.
Whereas where you are in NewMexico in the summertime, it's
like a hammer on your head.
Step outside in August, it's like,boom, you've been hit by something.
We get our, our temperatures are stillquite mild because we're so high.
I'm at 7,000 feet Uhhuh . Butthe UV is intense.
(15:50):
Yeah, right.
The sun is really, really intensebecause there's, you know, that's
seven, that's 7,000 feet of atmospherethat's not there protecting you.
Right.
So it's very, yeah.
We can be out in the middle of the daywhere in the summer, You know, just
don't be out in the middle of the day,even if it's only 85 or 90 degrees.
Just don't be, be inside, waituntil the morning or evening.
(16:14):
Yeah.
You're, you're below what Icall the siesta line . Yeah.
Which extends all the way around theworld actually, of, you know, when
you get to a certain point of thatintensity of the sun, it's like,
no, from two o'clock to about sixo'clock, we're just gonna take a break.
Yeah.
We'll come back at it later on.
Exactly.
And so, you know, there'sjust that excitement of going
(16:37):
into that time of year mm-hmm.
, because in the winter it's really flipped.
Right?
We wanna do the most that wecan in that time, um mm-hmm.
, so it's almost like, it, it always feelslike this little puzzle piece that fits
together, the winter and the summer.
And this is, this is the beginning of the.
of the light time of the year,of the bright time of the year.
(16:57):
Mm-hmm.
. So,
you know, it hadn't occurred to mebefore, but another thing that would,
as you talk about that, a natural themethat comes up for this time of year for
both of the Equinox is this integration.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, the putting togetherof pieces in your life which
is different from balance.
(17:19):
You know, balance, you tend to have thingsthat are relatively separate qualities.
They have boundaries between them andyou sort of adjust how much energy
you're putting into one or another.
Whereas integration, Imean, that can be all right.
I'm trying to bring my.
internal field of study, more intoconversations with my friends.
(17:42):
Mm-hmm.
, or I want to bring these two socialcircles together and see how they mesh.
Or I want to
practice a daily life.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
Yeah.
So I, that just occurred tome, and I don't know, . I think
there's something in that.
I'll have to think about it more.
(18:02):
Yeah.
So what about you for this time of year?
Do you have particular ritualsor practices that you like to do?
Well, other than, you know, thechildlike games, I do like to dye eggs.
Mm-hmm.
, I just, that's a really, reallyold tradition that extends
across continental Europe.
(18:23):
I don't think it ever got to.
The British Isles or Ireland?
I don't think you
know, I don't know one way or the other,I just kind of always assumed it did.
But I've never looked into that.
Maybe , but I know, I mean, the,the folks in Ukraine, you know,
the, the, they have the funky eggs.
(18:44):
Mm-hmm.
that they do with that lost waxprocess are just magnificent.
I have a goose egg fromUkraine that's decorated that
way and it's just beautiful.
Mm-hmm.
. But you know, this is the time whena lot of birds are laying eggs.
And so, that was thefirst high concentration.
protein source for people aftera long winter for many centuries.
(19:08):
So eggs were a pretty exciting prospect.
Yeah.
Oh, eggs are, eggs are wonderful.
They're, they're one of my favorites.
Mm-hmm.
, I really like eggs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The, so I, I like to dye eggs.
Mm-hmm.
, and.
. I don't know.
I've done differentthings in different years.
What I would prefer to do, my idealizedcelebration is to get together with
(19:34):
friends who have children mm-hmm.
you know, of, of those ages andjust kind of build the day around
them, play around them, makeraspberry lemonade and other sort of
non-alcoholic stuff for us to drink and.
and just celebrate the season inthat childlike, playful manner.
(19:57):
Mm-hmm.
, I've been able to pull thatoff a couple of times, but now
in post covid, not recently.
Right.
Well, as you were mentioningthe eggs, it, I thought to
bring up the Easter connection.
Oh, mm-hmm.
. So for us, I.
(20:17):
I don't really think about theEquinox and Easter together.
Like some of the other holidaysare a little bit more closely
tied, like, solstice and Christmas.
Mm-hmm.
right.
Or Hollows and Halloween, but Easter.
So we don't usually dye eggs for theEquinox, but the kids will go to their
grandmother's for Easter and thentheir other grandmother for Passover.
(20:41):
So those, like, they happen at a similartime of the year, but because those
are Looney Solar, , they move around.
Mm-hmm.
. Right?
So it's not like it's right on thesame day or right next, you know, the
day next to it or something like that.
Right.
And then we don't use the name O or whatare some of the other, there's some other
(21:03):
ones that are very similar sounding.
Well, there's one that's Ester, whichwas the Greek goddess of the dawn.
Right.
And all of.
as far as I can tell, all of that stuffabout o leading to Easter and all this.
As far as I can tell, it'smodern and apocryphal.
Mm-hmm.
, I don't think any of it isreally rooted in actual history.
(21:25):
Mm-hmm.
, but it doesn't really matter to me becausenot having kids I can get away with simply
not paying attention to Easter at all.
Yeah, it's just, I mean, usually I don'teven remember that it's Easter weekend.
I'm just not aware of it in the
least.
Well, and honestly, I don't either.
they just go with their dadto their grandmas and then
(21:48):
they come back sugared up.
And I do, actually, I mentionedthis on the round table that
will be published soon as.
So on the YouTube channel,oh, we did a round table.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just a tip for any parents outthere, one of the things that we have
started doing is to cut back on thejust enormous amount of candy that
is associated with that holiday.
We're putting Legos inside of someof the Easter eggs so that they still
(22:12):
get some candy so that they don't feelleft out, but they're also not getting.
You know, a year's worthof candy in one day.
And then they still get the coolthing as they get the Legos that
they can put together and thenthat lasts them longer anyway.
Still have the Legos for years.
Whereas the candy, they'lljust eat and feel sick.
Right.
Right.
So that's just a little,the little tip for that.
(22:33):
Yeah,
it's a good idea.
But that, you mean, youmean inside the plastic?
Inside the plastic eggs, yeah.
Yeah.
So they'll, they'll die a few and,and paint them hard boiled eggs.
Mm-hmm.
, but.
Then they'll also find some plasticeggs that, you know, we've saved the
same little plastic eggs for every year.
They've had the same, the same littleplastic eggs that have survived since
(22:56):
their dad was a kid in the eighties.
You know, so
Well.
That's good.
They're not in the landfill.
That's, yeah, that's
important.
I mean, they, they willbe eventually one day.
That's what happensto, of course, plastic.
But yeah.
Yeah.
So there's, it's one of those holidaysthat is close enough to one of the
the secular or Christian holidays.
(23:18):
Christian holidays, yeah.
Whereas other ones that we talk aboutsometimes, you know, there's not, like in
August, there's not really a holiday that.
ties in very well.
Not when the, the, theCatholics observe llamas.
Mm-hmm.
. And that's a, that's a thing if you'rean actively practicing Catholic.
But
(23:38):
well, depends on how, how,how actively practicing.
Yeah.
I suppose that's, it's different likelevels of being a, of how involved you
are with those holidays as a Catholic.
Yeah.
Yeah, because I come from, mycommunity is very Catholic and
that's, , that's not one of the ones.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm sure that they say somethingabout it at Mass, but you know, that's
(24:00):
not really what happens in the community.
So.
Yeah.
I mean, I can't imagine there being awhole lot of hoop law at the beginning of
August in New Mexico anyway, because it's.
Well, we, we are inmonsoons at that point.
Oh, that's true.
Right.
But that's not like the start of monsoons.
It's a, again, it's a, my partis because New Mexico is huge,
(24:22):
one has to remember That's true.
There's, it's, if you're up in thehigh desert where I am versus the
low desert, and then whether you,which, you know, side of the state
you're on is very, very different.
Mm-hmm.
. But it, it's, and I guess maybe it'sjust what you're used to, like, I
don't think it's a very big deal.
I guess if someone came to visitfrom one of the coasts, they might
(24:44):
feel like it's particularly hot.
Well it depends.
I mean, last summer we had aweek where the daily temperature
averaged something like 97 degrees.
Mm-hmm.
and that included a coupleof days that were over 110.
Yeah.
I can't remember a singletime that my regions.
(25:05):
Temperature down south.
Neither can we, like that's a,a few times a year we, we go
over a hundred, but that's it.
Oh, I see.
And it will be in, it will be in August.
But again, it's justbecause we're so high up.
Right, right.
I mean, we're higher, we'resignificantly higher than Denver, so.
Mm-hmm.
. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(25:25):
So.
In any case talking, we'll, we'll talkabout the August before we know it.
Yes, before we know it, we willbe talking about the dimming
holiday or summers waning or lusaor whatever you want to call it.
But for now it's the SpringEquinox coming right up.
And we hope that you havegotten useful ideas out of our
(25:49):
conversation here about this.
. It is a very meaningful time andI've been to some very beautiful
gatherings that have happenedfor this holiday in the past.
It snowed one year.
Mm-hmm.
, you know, it has often rained . Thisis in the mountains of Mendocino
County, north of where I am.
But we've always had areally joyous get together.
(26:11):
. And I hope that our listeners do too,whether it's solitary or something that
you do with your family and friends.
Yep.
And thanks for taking thetime to join us here today.
And.
, we really appreciate,appreciate all of you.
We
do check out that round tableon the u the YouTube channel.
We're now posting stuff to the YouTubechannel every week, and there's
(26:34):
new stuff happening also last week.
, I mentioned that it would'vebeen great if we were able to
have more presence on Instagram.
And two very wonderful, very qualifiedpeople immediately emailed me and
said, Hey, I would like to do that.
Yeah.
So,
It's Fanta it was amazing.
(26:55):
It, it was, we are so psyched about this
, And within hours of each other, It was like, right?
Oh yeah.
It was boom.
It was instantaneous.
Yeah.
So thank you to Tazi and Zoe for youryour volunteering to do that and check
out the atheopagan Instagram account.
We're we're posting stuff again.
Yep.
(27:17):
All right.
So thanks everybody.
Thank you,
mark.
Thank you Yucca.
We'll see you next week.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.