December 5, 2022 • 46 mins
Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs@gmail.com
S3E42 TRANSCRIPT: ----more----
Yucca: Welcome back to the Wonder Science-Based Paganism. I'm one of your hosts, Yucca,
Mark: And I'm the other one, Mark.
Yucca: and today we're talking about surviving the holidays as a pagan.
Mark: right?
Yucca: Yes. So welcome to December . Here we are. There's, there's a lot to go into with this, and later on in the month we're gonna come back and talk about the different traditions and projects and things that you can do.
But today we're gonna start with the, the kind. The, the more secular approach to the holidays and all of the family expectations and all of that cultural stuff that's going on. They kind of, everybody shares regardless of whether they're Pagan or Christian or whatever they are.
Mark: Yeah, exactly. One of the things that is very weird about the mainstream culture is that it, it seems to load nearly all of its holiday festivity into a five week period or six week period at the end of the year, when historically there would've been. Celebrations around the course of the year, you know, harvest holidays and, and so forth.
And there would've been. You know, several days taken out to celebrate those things. And so it seems as though with all of this ology compressed to this very short period of time, it can just be very overwhelming for people and it can give them a sense of never quite doing it well enough,
Yucca: yeah.
Mark: right? That that feeling of the obligation to make it perfect and that it never is quite
Yucca: right? It's supposed to be special. It's supposed to be this magical, but, but, but, but, but, but yeah.
Mark: right.
Yucca: And whenever I hear people talk about it, There's almost always this underlying, there's this exhaustion behind it, right? There's this, there's an excitement about it and there's so many wonderful things, but people just seem so exhausted just because of what you were talking about.
Trying to get all of that in, take a whole year's jolliness, and stick it into those few months or few weeks, excuse me, not months.
Mark: Yes. And I think, you know, some of that is this sort of set of unfair expectations that we put on people to, you know, to create this. Event
Yucca: Mm-hmm.
Mark: set of events. But I also think that there's other stressors that go into that, into that mix. You know, it's like you're gonna have to deal with your family more if you, if you do that, you know, for most people it's like, okay, I'm gonna have to deal with my family more.
Well, there are usually, for most people, there are stressors around that.
Yucca: Right. Even if you, even if you dearly, dearly love your family, there's all of those dynamics I find getting back together with my siblings. You know, we're adults. We've been adults for decades, but instantly it's like we're children again with this. Same, you know, picking on each other and all of the ridiculousness, you know, and, and we have a, a pretty decent relationship.
But that's even with a decent relationship that, you know, there's still all of that, all of those emotions.
Mark: Sure, sure. And I think that, you know, with parents particularly, you know, parents will treat you like a child for your whole life. Un unless they're really pretty together, parents
Yucca: Well,
Mark: figure out that you've, you've finally grown up.
Yucca: but it's hard that all kind of blurs together. Right. You know, it was yesterday. They were changing your diapers.
Mark: Right, right. And you know, this brings, you know, it brings you into engagement with philosophies of parenting, right? Because maybe the grandparents just want to indulge, indulge, indulge, indulge. And you as a parent h
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Yucca (00:32):
Welcome back to the Wonder Science-Based Paganism.
I'm one of your hosts, Yucca,
Mark (00:37):
And I'm the other one, Mark,
Yucca (00:39):
and today we're talking about surviving the holidays as a pagan.
Mark (00:45):
right?
Yucca (00:46):
Yes.
So welcome to December . Here we are.
There's, there's a lot to go intowith this, and later on in the
month we're gonna come back and talkabout the different traditions and
projects and things that you can do.
But today we're gonnastart with the, the kind.
The, the more secular approachto the holidays and all of the
(01:10):
family expectations and all of thatcultural stuff that's going on.
They kind of, everybody sharesregardless of whether they're Pagan
or Christian or whatever they are.
Mark (01:20):
Yeah, exactly.
One of the things that is very weird aboutthe mainstream culture is that it, it
seems to load nearly all of its holidayfestivity into a five week period or
six week period at the end of the year,when historically there would've been.
(01:43):
Celebrations around the courseof the year, you know, harvest
holidays and, and so forth.
And there would've been.
You know, several days takenout to celebrate those things.
And so it seems as though with all of thisology compressed to this very short period
(02:04):
of time, it can just be very overwhelmingfor people and it can give them a sense
of never quite doing it well enough,
Yucca (02:13):
yeah.
Mark (02:13):
right?
That that feeling of the obligation tomake it perfect and that it never is quite
Yucca (02:20):
right?
It's supposed to be special.
It's supposed to be this magical,but, but, but, but, but, but yeah.
Mark (02:27):
right.
Yucca (02:28):
And whenever I hear people talk about it, There's almost
always this underlying, there'sthis exhaustion behind it, right?
There's this, there's an excitement aboutit and there's so many wonderful things,
but people just seem so exhausted justbecause of what you were talking about.
Trying to get all of that in,take a whole year's jolliness, and
(02:51):
stick it into those few months orfew weeks, excuse me, not months.
Mark (02:56):
Yes.
And I think, you know, some ofthat is this sort of set of unfair
expectations that we put on peopleto, you know, to create this.
Event
Yucca (03:11):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (03:12):
set of events.
But I also think that there'sother stressors that go
into that, into that mix.
You know, it's like you're gonna haveto deal with your family more if you,
if you do that, you know, for mostpeople it's like, okay, I'm gonna
have to deal with my family more.
Well, there are usually, for mostpeople, there are stressors around that.
Yucca (03:36):
Right.
Even if you, even if you dearly,dearly love your family, there's
all of those dynamics I find gettingback together with my siblings.
You know, we're adults.
We've been adults for decades,but instantly it's like we're
children again with this.
Same, you know, picking on eachother and all of the ridiculousness,
you know, and, and we have a,a pretty decent relationship.
(03:59):
But that's even with a decent relationshipthat, you know, there's still all
of that, all of those emotions.
Mark (04:07):
Sure, sure.
And I think that, you know, with parentsparticularly, you know, parents will treat
you like a child for your whole life.
Un unless they're reallypretty together, parents
Yucca (04:18):
Well,
Mark (04:19):
figure out that you've, you've finally grown up.
Yucca (04:22):
but it's hard that all kind of blurs together.
Right.
You know, it was yesterday.
They were changing your diapers.
Mark (04:29):
Right, right.
And you know, this brings, you know,it brings you into engagement with
philosophies of parenting, right?
Because maybe the grandparents just wantto indulge, indulge, indulge, indulge.
And you as a parent have to put somebreaks on that and say, no, I'm sorry.
You know, candy forbreakfast doesn't work.
Yucca (04:51):
Or enforcing that the kids get to have boundaries.
The kid gets to say no, you know,or things like that, you know,
Mark (04:58):
Yes, you do not.
Yucca (05:00):
particular thing is that
Mark (05:02):
do not have to hug Weird Uncle Ralph
Yucca (05:04):
Yeah.
So, and then, you know, on top ofthat, in, at least here in the Northern
hemisphere, the weather has changed.
We're in a colder time of year.
People are indoors.
There tends to be more illness, andwe're not even taking into account,
you know, covid or anything likethat, but just people are, there's,
(05:25):
people aren't always feeling good thistime of year, and we're encouraged
to be eating all of these sweets andfoods that we normally wouldn't eat.
And so, We're putting ourselvesin these, yeah, more alcohol.
We're just in a more vulnerableplace emotionally and physically
and asking so much of ourselves atthe same time and so much of others,
Mark (05:48):
Right.
Right.
And that Then, oh,
Yucca (05:51):
buy everything.
We're being asked to buy everything andbe told about how it won't be magical
without it, and you need this and youneed that, and you're getting tricked
by, by companies that spend millions andmillions of dollars to get your attention.
Mark (06:08):
Yeah.
And that of, I mean, the, thefinancial stresses, you know, that's
a whole other level of stressorthat, you know, that happens with
Yucca (06:18):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (06:19):
And
Yucca (06:20):
And this year particular, right?
That's something that happensevery year, but there's a lot of
challenges right now with all of that,just, you know, on a global level.
Mark (06:28):
Right, right.
Yeah.
So there's all that.
And then if you were of an a.
Religion.
Then there's the layer of, okay, wellhow do I then live in a a way that
I find fulfilling and meaningful?
(06:50):
And not run a ground onsomebody else's judgments.
Right.
Whether it's that you're weird or thatyou're evil , it's, you know, because
either of those are pretty, yeah.
Either of those are prettyunpleasant to wear, honestly.
And so that's this sort of brewthat the holidays is, right?
(07:13):
It's all those kinds of things.
The long list of.
Tasks that have to be doneand the decorating and the the
buying and the just everything.
Plus.
You know, wanting to be as a non theistpig and wanting to say, you know,
actually it's the winter solstice for me.
(07:34):
That's, that's what Iconsider most meaningful.
And here's what I'm gonna do to carveout some time to observe that on top
of Christmas or Hanukkah or, you know,whatever, whatever more mainstream
holidays you may be going to celebrate.
Yucca (07:51):
And I wanna pause this here for a second and say, it might sound like we're
sounding a lot like wrenches right now.
We are both Mark and I adore the holidays,and this time of year we're just starting
with the, okay, how are we gonna addressthe, the self care and the balancing?
And again, next week we're gonnaget into here's some fantastic
(08:12):
traditions and things you can do.
But, but that we do really need to look atit from lots of different angles, right?
And underst.
, there is stress and we do needto take care of ourselves during
this time period, as well as the,the more joyous side of it all.
Mark (08:27):
That's right because the hope, of course, is that we come
out of the holidays feeling fed,right, feeling energized by all of
the, the festivity that we've had.
Even if it's tiring we can catch upon sleep, but you know, to feel as
(08:48):
though we've had these meaningfulkind of golden moments in the course
of, of going through the holidays.
That's, that's really the goal.
And in order for that to happen, you gottatake care of yourself in the meantime.
Otherwise, the current of theholidays will just sweep you along
(09:09):
and That's a very out of controlfeeling, and it's not good for you.
Yucca (09:13):
Yeah, so why don't we start with the kind of commercialism side, right?
How, what are some strategies thatpeople can have to be more aware of
that and more intentional with it?
Mark (09:34):
Okay, well the first strategy that I think is really important is
to broaden the definition of gift.
Because capitalism obviouslywants to sell you a product.
They wanna sell you a thing in a box.
and that thing is made of resourcesthat were carved out of the earth
(09:57):
and may very likely end up in alandfill in not too short order.
Yucca (10:03):
Right.
Mark (10:04):
So it may not be the most, it may not be the, the, the best
choice to choose a thing in a box.
Now let me, let me put a caveat in.
When it comes to children, you know,to to smaller children, my philosophy
is let them have the equivalent of the,the secular winter solstice, holiday,
(10:29):
the Christmas, because they will feelterribly deprived and terribly sad.
If they don't have that experience, thatdoesn't mean they have to be mountain
with gifts, but, I, I believe that inthe case of children, you give them
Yucca (10:48):
of it.
Yeah.
Mark (10:49):
And you give them things in a box.
Yucca (10:51):
Yeah, we do both.
We'll talk more about this, but myfamily, we do, we do both Solstice
and Christmas as separate holidays.
Mark (11:00):
right?
Right.
So, broadening the definition of whatconstitutes a gift means experiences.
Experiences can be gifts.
And that can be.
Tickets to a concert.
It can be a date night.
It can be you know, we're gonna godancing in this particular place.
(11:20):
It can be you know, let's just goget coffee and talk for two hours.
When do we ever get a chance to do that?
It can be, let's go for a hike.
There are lot, and, and many ofthose things don't have to cost
much or any money depending onyour relationship with the person.
It can be.
How about a massage or there are just,there are a lot of different things that
(11:42):
you can do that will be in many ways,more memorable for people and don't
involve the purchase of a thing in a box.
Yucca (11:53):
right?
Mark (11:55):
So broadening the definition of what constitutes a gift,
I think is really important.
In some cases, broadening in some cases,a gift can be something like, here's
three hours of free childcare, right?
I'm gonna, I'm, I'll watch the kids.
You, you go and dowhatever you want to do.
Believe me, that's a very, verywelcome gift for a lot of people.
Yucca (12:18):
is.
I will wash the kids andwash your dishes if you want.
Extra.
You know, a bow on top there.
Yeah.
Mark (12:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I mean, these are things that aretremendously kind when someone, you
know, opens an envelope or you canput the, a little gift certificate for
whatever it is in a box, right, andwrap it, and all that kind of stuff.
People will gen generally be verywarmed by the fact that you want
(12:47):
to put personal attention and timeinto your relationship with them.
Excuse me
Yucca (12:54):
things that you create.
I mean, one of my favoritegifts I ever got was a,
Mark (13:01):
Mm-hmm.
Yucca (13:02):
I mean, brother-in-law wrote us a poem and it was just so thoughtful, and
you can tell that he really worked on it.
And it, you know, I, I have it up.
I don't put a lot of things on the wall.
I've got it up on the wall becauseit just has stayed with me for all of
these years, just how amazing it was,
Mark (13:19):
How lovely.
Yeah, and people are creativein all kinds of ways.
I mean, the handmade gift.
Not to be confused with theHandmaid's Tale, the hand hyphen
made gift is a wonderful thing.
You know, whether, whether it's apiece of writing or a piece of music
(13:40):
or a compilation CD of music that youthink the person would like or a Or,
or something from, from a local artist,
Yucca (13:51):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (13:52):
because I mean, to me there is a categorical difference between an artwork
that was created by a local artistthat is trying to sustain themselves
through their art and something thatwas manufactured in a factory in China.
Yucca (14:08):
Right.
Mark (14:09):
They're, they're just, they're not the same.
You know, supporting your localproducers of beautiful objects, right?
That's a wonderful thing.
If, if, if the kind of person thatyou want to make a gift for is the
sort of person that appreciatesthat kind of thing, then by
all means, you know, do that.
And I should say, now, I, I mentionedkind of the, the first part of my
(14:33):
formula earlier, which is aboutmaking sure that children have.
Gift receiving experience.
What we do is we don't do gifts as adults.
Yucca (14:46):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (14:46):
We really don't.
I mean, when, when we needsomething, we, we get it.
Yucca (14:51):
Mm.
Mark (14:53):
and so what we have done in the past is we put up a, we put up
a yule tree, a mid-winter tree anddecorated and all that great stuff,
and we put treasures underneath.
Yucca (15:08):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (15:08):
Things that we have that we just love, that are really cool.
Like I have an antique uranium glassslipper that that phosphorouses
under ultraviolet light becauseit's uranium glass, right?
They used to make that and it's justthis very beautiful little thing.
So it's one of the things thatgoes under the tree and it gives
(15:29):
us a sense of kind of wealth.
You know, look, look at the coolthings that are in our life.
You know, objects from nature toappreciate, you know, antlers and bones
and skulls and abalone shells and,you know, all these wonderful things.
So we, we don't do thegift thing for adults.
(15:54):
And we might make an exception once ina while if there's something that seems
like particularly needed or wanted onthe part of some adult that we love.
But the amount of stress that is takenoff of you by not having to buy a
thing for this long list of recipients.
(16:18):
Is profound.
It will make a huge difference inyour experience of the holidays.
Yucca (16:24):
Yeah, it really does.
And I, I wanted to add on a littlebit with what you were saying.
You talked about the different types ofgifts and then also for the children.
You know, giving them the, thetraditional kind of box gifts, but
that's something that you can do bothof, and as time goes on, the ratio of
(16:46):
which kind of gift they're getting asthey're becoming teenagers, as they're
growing into adulthood, it shiftswhat, what you're doing with them,
Mark (16:55):
Right.
Yucca (16:55):
And so then it's just a natural thing and it's not, it's never.
Being deprived.
It's about just what this is really about,is about the, the love for each other and
the gratitude and the giving and the, youknow, to use the to be stereotypical,
the spirit of giving, right.
It really is.
(17:16):
Right.
And, and being about that and notthe, the object right now there is
also, there are a lot of, of practicalthings that this time of year.
You know, coming out of harvest,being about to go into the, to these
very cold times of year when there'snot a lot coming out of the garden,
(17:37):
there's not a lot being produced,of being ready for the cold to come.
So there's, there's some practical partabout, you know, the giving the socks,
the, that sort of thing that just.
To being prepared materiallyfor what's to come there.
There's an element of that as well, whichI think is important just to keep in mind
(17:58):
that that's one way that we do show loveis to make sure, hey, you've got, you've
got your warm socks for the year, right?
Mark (18:06):
Yeah.
You're, you're, you'regonna be comfortable.
Yucca (18:08):
yeah.
Mark (18:09):
Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a great thought.
In Iceland, it's traditional to givebooks for Christmas, and Christmas Day
is a day of sitting around in warm socks,drinking hot chocolate and reading books.
Yucca (18:23):
Oh, wonderful.
Mark (18:24):
The,
Yucca (18:25):
Cuddling with kiddies too.
I, if they've got cats, right?
Cat cuddling.
Mark (18:28):
Yeah.
You know, those kinds of traditionsthey make for some very warm memories.
They really do make forsome super nice times.
And having downtime like thatin the holidays is another
thing that's really important.
When we talk about when we talk aboutself-care that's certainly one thing to
(18:49):
be considering is when am I doing nothing?
Yucca (18:53):
right?
Mark (18:53):
know, it's, it's, it's hard to imagine that it's possible, but
you gotta do nothing sometimes.
Yucca (18:59):
Or at least.
Have nobody else's mind in yours.
Cause we've really lost solitude,especially in the last decade or so
as, as the social media and smartphonesand all of that stuff has just kind
of invaded into our personal lives.
So there's so little time that we'reever simply alone with ourselves, and
(19:24):
I think that that's essential, right?
I think we're social animals.
We need to be around other peopleas well, but, , but especially
in the dark of the year,
Mark (19:33):
Yes.
Yucca (19:34):
to be alone a little bit is, is just vitally important,
Mark (19:38):
I, I completely agree.
And ironically, the inverse is trueas well because you, it's a time for
gathering with loved ones and for,you know, celebrating the fact that we
have people that love us in our livesand, and all that good kind of stuff.
But you can go overboard with that.
People, people, especially introvertedpeople, or neurodiverse people who get
(20:00):
overwhelmed by too much social stimulusreally need their, their alone time.
And so it's important to, to planfor that and make sure it happens.
Yucca (20:12):
Yeah.
And thinking about both, it's kindof like in the dark of the year.
We we're celebrating the light as well.
I mean, that's a lot of what the Christmastree with the lights on it is about,
is bringing that light into the dark.
But we're recognizing and seeing both.
It's a celebration of both.
So I think that that's one wayto look at it with the, with the
(20:34):
family, but with self as well.
Right.
Solitude and company.
Mark (20:40):
So wanted to talk a little bit about a couple of other gifty sorts of ideas.
There's always food, know, baked goods.
I mean, an incredible gift would be, youknow, cook dinner for people and bring it
to their house, you know, the week before.
Before the big event, you know, something,you know, just when things are going
(21:05):
super crazy, you know, give people ameal that they don't have to think about.
You know, just, just being aware of whatpeople's needs are and, you know, thinking
about your own, you know, your own.
You know, where are the places whereyou get really exhausted and you think,
oh God, I wish I didn't have to do X.
Well, if somebody else did X foryou, wouldn't that be amazing?
Yucca (21:26):
Mm-hmm.
right.
Mark (21:28):
Yeah.
So, I really encourage that, that theincorporation of that, that personal
touch into gifting Either throughexperiences or through handmade things
or through which includes baking andcooking and all that good kind of stuff.
And then also because there isthere's a guilt factor in in.
(21:54):
Commercial acquisition as well.
Just really being mindful,you know, of where things come
from, who you're buying from.
There are, you know, there aretons of Etsy stores, there are
tons of indigenous sort of.
Internet based stores that you can orderthings from, you know, figure out who you
(22:15):
really want to be giving your money to.
Is it some international conglomeratewith shareholders, or is it,
you know, just somebody who'strying to, trying to get by?
Yucca (22:25):
Hm.
Wonderful.
Well, why don't we, why don't wetalk about the second part of this
which is the family gatheringsor the social gatherings.
Maybe not necessarily family, butmaybe the office gatherings or whatever
it is because it's a big one, right?
There's a big one in terms ofwhether you are of the same religion
(22:47):
or not, but also just dealing.
The various personalities whenpeople are in this kind of
heightened place to begin with.
Mark (22:55):
And I, I think a great place to start with that is the recognition
that in those circumstances, everybodyis under a certain amount of stress,
Yucca (23:05):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (23:06):
except possibly the most garous extrovert, the.
Pretty much everybody elseis feeling some level of what
are people gonna think of me?
You know, how this is the office party.
How is my boss thinking of me?
You know, there's, there's weirdUncle Ralph his weird opinions.
(23:28):
How am I going to avoid getting reignedinto a long conversation with him?
All those, all those things, right?
So under having a little compassionfor the other people in the room is
very helpful in, in my experience.
It is, it is so challenging forus as people, and this is a weird
(23:51):
thing to really get that the otherpeople around us are fully fleshed
out human beings with internal livesand, you know, their, their own.
Yucca (24:03):
story.
Mark (24:03):
Their own journey, their own aspirations and their own
internal voices that nag atthem and all that kind of stuff.
There's a, there's a term for that,that realization called Saunder which
when I heard that, I was glad thatthere was a word for it, because
I think it's really important thatpeople have that experience of others.
It makes them morecompassionate and more humane.
(24:27):
Sa, S O N D E R.
Yucca (24:29):
Mm.
Okay.
Mark (24:30):
And I'm not sure what language it's in.
The, so that, that's a place to startis understanding that everybody may
be a little bit on edge, a littlebit keyed up because they're.
At, at some level, when you'redoing social engagement, there's
a performance aspect to it, right?
(24:51):
know, I, I wanna make sureI'm acting appropriately.
I wanna make sure I'm, you know,not displeasing the people around
me, all that kind of stuff.
Yucca (25:01):
Right.
Reading everything correctly and Yeah.
And responding and, and, and justbeing compassionate for those people.
Yeah.
And for yourself too, right?
Yeah.
Mark (25:16):
Yeah, so, so now you've got these social engagements
that you've gotta go to.
Well, how do you take care ofyourself, especially as someone who
practices aio paganism or non theistpaganism, or some other variety of
naturalistic earth honoring path.
(25:36):
You know, as someone who is an outlier.
Philosophically and spiritually, howdo you kind of stand in the truth
of yourself while at the same timenot picking fights with others that
may have strong opinions about that?
(25:57):
And I guess my first answer tothat is that if their opinions
are strong enough, you don't.
Yucca (26:05):
great.
Mark (26:06):
You, you, there's no point in, in, you know, trying to win an
argument with some rabidly, right wing,evangelical Christian who just wants
to tell you that you're going to hell.
Yucca (26:19):
Right.
So the, so the first step is,is this something that you're
going to engage with or not?
Right?
And in many cases, you may simply choosenot to, but in the situation, in the
event that you do choose to, right?
Then thinking about before you go intothat, how are you going to prepare and
(26:39):
how are you going to respond for it?
You know, you, you might choosesomething like doing some sort
of, you know, shielding ritualbefore you go in, maybe doing some.
Premeditation on role playing of likelyscenarios that are gonna come up.
Practice, practice some of yourdeflection techniques or expressions
that you're going to use.
If it is, if you've decided that it'sreally valuable and worth it to you to be
(27:04):
there for whatever that reason is, right?
Cause it's not our.
Job here to be telling you whatyou should or shouldn't do.
We're not, you, right?
We have no idea what it feels liketo be you or the shoes that you're
in, but we're just encouraging you tothink about how to protect yourself
in that situation and still get the,what you're trying to get out of it.
(27:24):
But no, at the end of the day, you're,you can't control anybody else, right?
You cannot control the outcome.
You can work on trying to get theoutcome you want, but know that
you're not, you can't control.
Mark (27:36):
Right?
Yucca (27:37):
Right?
And if you're gonna go intothis situation, you've gotta be
prepared for that possibility.
Mark (27:42):
Yes.
So part of thinking about that, howyou're gonna protect yourself is
how disclosive do I want to be withthis particular group of people.
It's your office party, for example.
If the subject comes up, youmay wanna say, well, my family
celebrates the winter solstice.
You don't need to goany further than that.
(28:05):
You have a right to have yourreligious beliefs in the workplace,
just like everybody else does.
But, so you may want to sort ofexpress this is, you know, this,
this is what me and my family do.
And then there may be questions,well, how does that work?
And what's that about?
And you can explain as muchas you're comfortable with in
Yucca (28:25):
Or not, you don't.
Mark (28:26):
or not.
Yes, exactly.
Yucca (28:28):
And here's the thing, depending on how you feel about it,
you don't, you don't owe them that.
You also don't owe them the truth.
Right.
Mark (28:39):
true too.
Yucca (28:39):
That's, that's up to you.
If you don't feel like that'ssomething you wanna get into, oh,
wonder how was your Christmas?
Oh, great.
You don't need to say, oh, actuallyI don't practice, you know, I
don't believe in Christmas or
Mark (28:52):
I don't
Yucca (28:52):
like that.
Mark (28:53):
Christmas.
Yucca (28:54):
You know, you don't owe 'em anything, it's fine.
It's however you wanna handle that.
Mark (29:00):
Yep.
Yep, that's true.
And that's, that's an example of where, ofwhere, you know, being literally truthful
can actually be a lot more harmful than,you know, applying the, the, the social
lubricant of the little white lie.
That just lets things keepclicking along smoothly.
(29:24):
And of course we have to be very judiciousabout deciding when those things apply,
but it bears saying that A lot of peoplewould be a lot lonelier if they were fully
candid about everything in their lives.
with everybody around them.
Yucca (29:40):
Mm-hmm.
And so, you know, we've been talkingabout the context of an office party,
but that may also be the same, but youhave the same things to think about
with the family gathering whether you'rethe one organizing that or the one
attending it, or, you know, And again,maybe it's not just one gathering.
Maybe you've got three gatheringsand you're going to the in-laws
(30:01):
and yours and all, and then allof the different sides, you know?
So this is something I would encouragekind of sitting down, like literally
sitting down and just having a littlestrategy party with yourself, right?
If you do journaling or something likethat, it's a wonderful time just to maybe
make some, just write down some of the.
(30:22):
Possibilities and the strategiesthat you wanna have and what, what
are your values and, and what doyou hope to get out of it, and what
do you wanna protect yourself from?
And, and just be, go into it being awarebecause once when you're aware, you
have a, a better chance of being ableto respond in a way that you want to
(30:44):
respond when you're not caught off guard.
Yeah.
Mark (30:47):
right.
Yeah.
And the other thing to remember is that.
And this is something that may notleap immediately to mind for people
that come out of traditions likeChristianity that require that you only
be a Christian and not anything else,naturalistic, paganism is not like that.
(31:09):
You can go through all of therituals of, of a Christian Christmas
gathering and no harm, no foul.
You haven't offended anybody or betrayedyourself or hurt yourself or anything.
Yucca (31:22):
Yeah, there's
Mark (31:22):
You can.
Yucca (31:23):
gonna be mad at you about it.
Mark (31:25):
That's right.
You, you can, you can have and stilldo all of your own celebrations and
rituals on the solstice or as closeto the solstice as works for you.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
So there's nothing hypocritical about it.
So you don't necessarily need to, youknow, lead the, the prayer to Jesus.
But you can bow your headand just sort of be there.
(31:49):
That all that's up to you.
And it's, it's perfectly okay to playalong in order not to create conflict.
Yucca (31:57):
Yeah.
As long as that feels good to you, right?
If it, if, if that doesn't feelgood to you, then you don't need to
be, you don't need to put yourselfin this, that situation, right?
So,
Mark (32:08):
Yeah.
And, and that really is important to saybecause there are, I mean, I know there
are a lot of people for whom it's like, Icouldn't not go to my parents' Christmas.
Gathering.
Right?
I couldn't not go to that.
Even though they know thatthey really need to betray
(32:28):
themselves deeply to be there.
And when confronted with that kindof a paradox you really need to think
seriously about whether you're gonna go.
Yucca (32:40):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (32:41):
You know, it might, it might actually be the, the better part of Valor
to just say, I, I can't come this year.
I, it just, it doesn't feellike it would be right for me.
Yucca (32:56):
Mm.
Mark (32:57):
And you don't have to go into any more detail than that.
Yucca (33:01):
And here's the 10 of cookies that I baked for you,
Mark (33:03):
Yes,
Yucca (33:04):
Or whatever, whatever it is that might smooth it out.
Mark (33:07):
Uhhuh
Yucca (33:07):
Yeah, so we actually last year we did a, a full
episode specifically on this.
So if this is something thatpeople are, are kind of wanting
more of definitely check out ourepisode from last year on, on this.
Mark (33:21):
was that a year ago?
Yucca (33:23):
It was a year ago.
Yep.
Mark (33:25):
Oh man.
Yucca (33:26):
right.
We would've talked about this earlyDecember maybe, maybe even late November.
So it just flies.
But why don't we transition now to someof the things that we can do during this.
Time period in preparing forthe holidays, throughout the
holidays in terms of self care.
Right.
And again, we'll get later into some ofthe traditions and stuff that you, we
(33:49):
can do the specific holiday celebrations.
But but is there something that youwould suggest to start with Mark?
Mark (33:55):
Well, I start with the body.
Yucca (33:57):
Mm.
Mark (33:57):
I mean there's all the psychological stuff that we, that we go through at this
time of the year, and there are all thetechniques that we have for working with
the psyche, but getting enough sleep,
Yucca (34:09):
Absolutely.
Mark (34:10):
eating, eating some semblance of a decent diet, even if it's a
little heavier in sugar than itusually is, it's sugar and fat.
Don't worry about that so much, butmake sure you're getting protein.
Make sure you're getting a vegetable
Yucca (34:23):
whatever it is that, you know, works for your
Mark (34:26):
for you.
Yeah, exactly.
And get that sleep.
Be aware of how much you're drinking.
Yucca (34:32):
mm-hmm.
Mark (34:33):
Because it seems like all of these gatherings in, in many cases,
there's, there's alcohol going on.
So if you do drink, just really be awareof, of how much you're drinking and
if it starts to feel like that's notwhat you wanna be doing pair it back.
You know, tell people, and youcan facilitate that for yourself
(34:56):
by bringing something to drinkfor yourself to a gathering.
Right?
There's wonderful like.
Sparkling cranberry ciders andpomegranate ciders and things like that.
There are some really delicious thingsnow and I'm gonna put in a plug for
my, my local brewery, Lagunitas BrewingCompany, which has a great beer called
(35:18):
a n a, which is it's, or I P n A.
It's like an ipa, but it'sna, which is no alcohol.
And it's delicious.
It actually tastes like a beer, butit doesn't have any alcohol in it.
So, it's worth checkingthat out if you need to.
So, you know, enough said about that.
If you don't drink, this can be avery challenging time of the year.
(35:41):
So, take care of yourself.
If you go to meetings, go to meetingsdo the things that you need to
do in order to keep all that in.
Yucca (35:49):
right.
And just a little tip with ourbodies, if you can get a little bit
of sun early in the morning, thatjust, just even if it's a couple of
minutes where you're outside and you.
Kind of turn your face towards the sun.
It really does make a big difference interms of resetting your clock and, and
kind of helping you out with that, withthe sleep patterns and just getting your
(36:13):
body to be doing the things that it needsto be doing at the right time, because
this time of year it can be really.
Really tricky on our bodies and ourrhythms as and as we have the lights
on all the time and later on, andwhen is it dark and when is it not?
And, and our, we are, first and foremost,we are physical creatures, right?
(36:34):
We are animals with, you know,millions and millions of years
of adaptation to a certainenvironment, which we are not living.
Mark (36:43):
Right.
Yucca (36:44):
We, we are animals in captivity, right?
We're, we're.
And so just trying to be aware of thata little bit is a, is a good start.
Mark (36:53):
Yes.
Yucca (36:53):
So, yeah.
Mark (36:56):
that brings us to the, the psychological things that we can do
in order to support ourselves and.
To me, the number one thing there,if you're taking care of your, your
physical self, the number one thingthere is to go back to that first
principle of, of naturalistic paganism,which is pay attention, right?
(37:20):
If there's snowfall, watchthe snowfall for 15 minutes.
Listen to the rain on the roof,crack the window open so that you
can smell the smell of the rain.
Yucca (37:30):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (37:30):
Go for a walk in the snow.
Notice what birds are around, if any.
Just, you know, noticewhat phase the moon is in.
Yucca (37:39):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (37:39):
There's so many.
There are so many simple things that wecan do to keep ourselves re-grounded in
the fact that, okay, I'm on a, I'm on aphysical planet that's going through a
physical set of processes and all thisculture stuff is fantastic, but I'm still
just on a physical planet doing physicalprocesses and it's all gonna work out.
Yucca (38:03):
Speaking of the moon December has the mites, which
is one of the biggest meteor.
There's two really bigmeteor showers a year.
And if you get clear skies pretty muchfor the rest of the month even if you
don't get it on the night that it'speaking, you've got some good chances
to see some really beautiful meteors.
So if you get a chance just to be outthere and, and right now, Mars and Jupiter
(38:25):
are both really bright up in the sky.
Even if you're in a city, those are, areprobably gonna pierce through that light
pollution and just be really beautiful.
Just to take a momentand just take a look,
Mark (38:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So other psychological things and it, I,I put this in the psychological category,
even though it's a physical thing.
Take a shower.
Yucca (38:49):
Yeah.
Mark (38:51):
Especially if you go through any kind of a stressful experience,
take a shower, there is somethingabout, and there's literally
something physical about it.
It's not just the sensations all overyour body that create more of a grounded
sense of being in your physical self.
There, there is a way that splashingwater creates negative ions that tend
(39:14):
to kind of ground out the the, the kindof zazi feeling, the jed feeling that
you can get from having From havingsocial interactions or being in a crowded
store or any of those kinds of things.
So that's really a go-toas far as I'm concerned.
Yucca (39:34):
I don't know about the ions, but I know that it, that for me, the rush, the
sound of the rushing water and that justbeing able to control those, that that
sensory input is just, is really amazing.
Like, I'll do a shower and then a bath,right first the shower to kind of wash
it to like to, to do like, okay, thefeeling like I'm washing it all away and
(39:57):
then, The bath of just getting to justfeel like melting into that water and
Mark (40:03):
Soaking in the heat.
Yucca (40:05):
And I, I like to actually run to be in the tub while it's filling, so
it has that, that sound, that rushingwaterfall sound and it's filling up.
And that's one of thefavorite things that we do in.
In the holidays because Idon't have a tub where I live.
We don't actually have hot watereither, so we, we just heat our
water up on the stove to like dodishes or something like that.
(40:26):
But we go into town to my mother-in-law's.
She's got the big bath tub with waterheater and it's like, oh yeah, we can
do some nice relaxing for a long time.
Mark (40:39):
nice.
Very nice.
Yucca (40:40):
yeah.
That's a wonderful thing about theholidays, but there's other things too.
Like a shower is a really wonderful one.
But if you don't have access tothat, right, there are other types
of things that you can do that feellike you are transitioning, that
you're switching between these.
You know, you're getting awayfrom some of that stress.
(41:02):
You're letting go.
I mean, there's the shaking, there'sthe dancing, there's the stepping
into a ritual space, and we've talkeda lot about this on, on the podcast.
And you can do things like goinginto a, the dark room, right?
Turning all the lights off,and then things like that.
Mark (41:20):
right, right.
Coming back to yourself psychologicallyis very important at this kind of
time because it is so easy to getto be what we call ungrounded.
You know, it's easy to get your thoughtsspinning if you're dealing with family.
It's easy to get all the old messages fromthe family going again, right about ways
(41:43):
that they criticize you or that they don'trespect you sufficiently, or that they
haven't recognized how you've changed.
Yucca (41:50):
And all the things they do that are just so annoying that drive you crazy.
Yeah.
Mark (41:56):
Yeah.
Yucca (41:57):
All those things that you feel about them.
Mark (41:59):
so all that stuff can be going in your mind, and if you just let
it keep going, then you can becomeincreasingly stressed and more and
more kind of separated from yourself.
So.
Sit down and justbreathe for five minutes.
It doesn't have to be a super long time.
Yucca (42:18):
Off.
Take the, the earbuds out of your ears.
Mark (42:22):
yeah.
Get, get away from the gadgetry fora minute and just, you know, the
other thing that I find is very,very helpful, and this sounds.
Like, sort of brute force magic making.
But get a big rock you know, arock that weighs 15, 20 pounds.
(42:44):
Sit it in your lap, sit on the ground,or sit on the floor and just sit
cross-legged if that's comfortable foryou, and just sit that rock in your lap.
And.
Yucca (42:54):
just ground with it.
Mark (42:55):
Just wait.
Yucca (42:56):
Wait.
Yeah.
Mark (42:57):
Yeah.
You'll, you'll be amazed at what adifference it makes, just feeling that
gravity pulling you back to the earth.
And it, it clears the, clearsall the spinning stuff out.
It's, it's it's a powerful technique.
Yucca (43:13):
Mm.
Yeah.
Love that one.
Mark (43:17):
S.
I I discovered that, or, orinnovated it or whatever it was.
My, my former wife was in areally kind of panicky space.
She had I don't even rememberwhat the circumstance was, but
she was in this very hypermanic.
(43:40):
Very anxious space and you know,was telling me about all the reasons
that she felt that and that thiswas so, and she wasn't a pagan.
And so I said, well, you know, we.
We, we do stuff with things like that.
So have a seat, youknow, sit on the ground.
(44:01):
And I put this big rock in her lap andshe immediately began kind of to giggle.
It was like, . That's great.
That's so great.
And sure enough, you know, given10 minutes or so, her consciousness
had really sort of changed.
But yeah, so that's whyI keep a big rock around.
Yucca (44:18):
It's great.
Yeah, so this, this really can be sucha lovely time of year and a really,
really meaningful time of year and,and, You know, getting ready, ending
out this year and getting readyfor a new one and, and all of that.
And so it's just a time that canalso, you know, can be stressful.
(44:41):
And so it's a good time to be awareand just really be present with
ourselves and, and really honest withourselves about what it is that, that
we need, what's feeding us what's not.
And thinking about.
You know, what do we value andwhat obligations do we or do we not
have and, and how to handle that.
So, yeah.
Mark (45:01):
And if there are things that we feel obligated to do that we really
don't want to do, are there alternatives?
Is, is there some otherway to get at that?
You know, is it possible to.
I don't know.
I, I, I don't know what the example is.
If, if the holiday meal with the familyis a nightmare, maybe a restaurant,
(45:24):
you know, there, there are, thereare other ways of coming at this.
If, if it's
Yucca (45:28):
Yeah.
Just some creative thinking about it.
Mark (45:31):
Yeah.
Yucca (45:32):
Yeah.
So.
So we hope that you all have awonderful intentional holiday season
Mark (45:44):
Yes.
And may cramps come, but not takeyou away in his bag this evening.
Because in, in, in Bavariait's Crumps knocked.
So, hope that you don't getwhipped with Bert's twigs too
much or hauled away in his bag.
Yucca (45:59):
That's great.
All right, well thank you everybody.
We will see you next week.
Welcome back to the Wonder Science-Based Paganism.
I'm one of your hosts, Yucca,
Mark (00:37):
And I'm the other one, Mark,
Yucca (00:39):
and today we're talking about surviving the holidays as a pagan.
Mark (00:45):
right?
Yucca (00:46):
Yes.
So welcome to December . Here we are.
There's, there's a lot to go intowith this, and later on in the
month we're gonna come back and talkabout the different traditions and
projects and things that you can do.
But today we're gonnastart with the, the kind.
The, the more secular approachto the holidays and all of the
(01:10):
family expectations and all of thatcultural stuff that's going on.
They kind of, everybody sharesregardless of whether they're Pagan
or Christian or whatever they are.
Mark (01:20):
Yeah, exactly.
One of the things that is very weird aboutthe mainstream culture is that it, it
seems to load nearly all of its holidayfestivity into a five week period or
six week period at the end of the year,when historically there would've been.
(01:43):
Celebrations around the courseof the year, you know, harvest
holidays and, and so forth.
And there would've been.
You know, several days takenout to celebrate those things.
And so it seems as though with all of thisology compressed to this very short period
(02:04):
of time, it can just be very overwhelmingfor people and it can give them a sense
of never quite doing it well enough,
Yucca (02:13):
yeah.
Mark (02:13):
right?
That that feeling of the obligation tomake it perfect and that it never is quite
Yucca (02:20):
right?
It's supposed to be special.
It's supposed to be this magical,but, but, but, but, but, but yeah.
Mark (02:27):
right.
Yucca (02:28):
And whenever I hear people talk about it, There's almost
always this underlying, there'sthis exhaustion behind it, right?
There's this, there's an excitement aboutit and there's so many wonderful things,
but people just seem so exhausted justbecause of what you were talking about.
Trying to get all of that in,take a whole year's jolliness, and
(02:51):
stick it into those few months orfew weeks, excuse me, not months.
Mark (02:56):
Yes.
And I think, you know, some ofthat is this sort of set of unfair
expectations that we put on peopleto, you know, to create this.
Event
Yucca (03:11):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (03:12):
set of events.
But I also think that there'sother stressors that go
into that, into that mix.
You know, it's like you're gonna haveto deal with your family more if you,
if you do that, you know, for mostpeople it's like, okay, I'm gonna
have to deal with my family more.
Well, there are usually, for mostpeople, there are stressors around that.
Yucca (03:36):
Right.
Even if you, even if you dearly,dearly love your family, there's
all of those dynamics I find gettingback together with my siblings.
You know, we're adults.
We've been adults for decades,but instantly it's like we're
children again with this.
Same, you know, picking on eachother and all of the ridiculousness,
you know, and, and we have a,a pretty decent relationship.
(03:59):
But that's even with a decent relationshipthat, you know, there's still all
of that, all of those emotions.
Mark (04:07):
Sure, sure.
And I think that, you know, with parentsparticularly, you know, parents will treat
you like a child for your whole life.
Un unless they're reallypretty together, parents
Yucca (04:18):
Well,
Mark (04:19):
figure out that you've, you've finally grown up.
Yucca (04:22):
but it's hard that all kind of blurs together.
Right.
You know, it was yesterday.
They were changing your diapers.
Mark (04:29):
Right, right.
And you know, this brings, you know,it brings you into engagement with
philosophies of parenting, right?
Because maybe the grandparents just wantto indulge, indulge, indulge, indulge.
And you as a parent have to put somebreaks on that and say, no, I'm sorry.
You know, candy forbreakfast doesn't work.
Yucca (04:51):
Or enforcing that the kids get to have boundaries.
The kid gets to say no, you know,or things like that, you know,
Mark (04:58):
Yes, you do not.
Yucca (05:00):
particular thing is that
Mark (05:02):
do not have to hug Weird Uncle Ralph
Yucca (05:04):
Yeah.
So, and then, you know, on top ofthat, in, at least here in the Northern
hemisphere, the weather has changed.
We're in a colder time of year.
People are indoors.
There tends to be more illness, andwe're not even taking into account,
you know, covid or anything likethat, but just people are, there's,
(05:25):
people aren't always feeling good thistime of year, and we're encouraged
to be eating all of these sweets andfoods that we normally wouldn't eat.
And so, We're putting ourselvesin these, yeah, more alcohol.
We're just in a more vulnerableplace emotionally and physically
and asking so much of ourselves atthe same time and so much of others,
Mark (05:48):
Right.
Right.
And that Then, oh,
Yucca (05:51):
buy everything.
We're being asked to buy everything andbe told about how it won't be magical
without it, and you need this and youneed that, and you're getting tricked
by, by companies that spend millions andmillions of dollars to get your attention.
Mark (06:08):
Yeah.
And that of, I mean, the, thefinancial stresses, you know, that's
a whole other level of stressorthat, you know, that happens with
Yucca (06:18):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (06:19):
And
Yucca (06:20):
And this year particular, right?
That's something that happensevery year, but there's a lot of
challenges right now with all of that,just, you know, on a global level.
Mark (06:28):
Right, right.
Yeah.
So there's all that.
And then if you were of an a.
Religion.
Then there's the layer of, okay, wellhow do I then live in a a way that
I find fulfilling and meaningful?
(06:50):
And not run a ground onsomebody else's judgments.
Right.
Whether it's that you're weird or thatyou're evil , it's, you know, because
either of those are pretty, yeah.
Either of those are prettyunpleasant to wear, honestly.
And so that's this sort of brewthat the holidays is, right?
(07:13):
It's all those kinds of things.
The long list of.
Tasks that have to be doneand the decorating and the the
buying and the just everything.
Plus.
You know, wanting to be as a non theistpig and wanting to say, you know,
actually it's the winter solstice for me.
(07:34):
That's, that's what Iconsider most meaningful.
And here's what I'm gonna do to carveout some time to observe that on top
of Christmas or Hanukkah or, you know,whatever, whatever more mainstream
holidays you may be going to celebrate.
Yucca (07:51):
And I wanna pause this here for a second and say, it might sound like we're
sounding a lot like wrenches right now.
We are both Mark and I adore the holidays,and this time of year we're just starting
with the, okay, how are we gonna addressthe, the self care and the balancing?
And again, next week we're gonnaget into here's some fantastic
(08:12):
traditions and things you can do.
But, but that we do really need to look atit from lots of different angles, right?
And underst.
, there is stress and we do needto take care of ourselves during
this time period, as well as the,the more joyous side of it all.
Mark (08:27):
That's right because the hope, of course, is that we come
out of the holidays feeling fed,right, feeling energized by all of
the, the festivity that we've had.
Even if it's tiring we can catch upon sleep, but you know, to feel as
(08:48):
though we've had these meaningfulkind of golden moments in the course
of, of going through the holidays.
That's, that's really the goal.
And in order for that to happen, you gottatake care of yourself in the meantime.
Otherwise, the current of theholidays will just sweep you along
(09:09):
and That's a very out of controlfeeling, and it's not good for you.
Yucca (09:13):
Yeah, so why don't we start with the kind of commercialism side, right?
How, what are some strategies thatpeople can have to be more aware of
that and more intentional with it?
Mark (09:34):
Okay, well the first strategy that I think is really important is
to broaden the definition of gift.
Because capitalism obviouslywants to sell you a product.
They wanna sell you a thing in a box.
and that thing is made of resourcesthat were carved out of the earth
(09:57):
and may very likely end up in alandfill in not too short order.
Yucca (10:03):
Right.
Mark (10:04):
So it may not be the most, it may not be the, the, the best
choice to choose a thing in a box.
Now let me, let me put a caveat in.
When it comes to children, you know,to to smaller children, my philosophy
is let them have the equivalent of the,the secular winter solstice, holiday,
(10:29):
the Christmas, because they will feelterribly deprived and terribly sad.
If they don't have that experience, thatdoesn't mean they have to be mountain
with gifts, but, I, I believe that inthe case of children, you give them
Yucca (10:48):
of it.
Yeah.
Mark (10:49):
And you give them things in a box.
Yucca (10:51):
Yeah, we do both.
We'll talk more about this, but myfamily, we do, we do both Solstice
and Christmas as separate holidays.
Mark (11:00):
right?
Right.
So, broadening the definition of whatconstitutes a gift means experiences.
Experiences can be gifts.
And that can be.
Tickets to a concert.
It can be a date night.
It can be you know, we're gonna godancing in this particular place.
(11:20):
It can be you know, let's just goget coffee and talk for two hours.
When do we ever get a chance to do that?
It can be, let's go for a hike.
There are lot, and, and many ofthose things don't have to cost
much or any money depending onyour relationship with the person.
It can be.
How about a massage or there are just,there are a lot of different things that
(11:42):
you can do that will be in many ways,more memorable for people and don't
involve the purchase of a thing in a box.
Yucca (11:53):
right?
Mark (11:55):
So broadening the definition of what constitutes a gift,
I think is really important.
In some cases, broadening in some cases,a gift can be something like, here's
three hours of free childcare, right?
I'm gonna, I'm, I'll watch the kids.
You, you go and dowhatever you want to do.
Believe me, that's a very, verywelcome gift for a lot of people.
Yucca (12:18):
is.
I will wash the kids andwash your dishes if you want.
Extra.
You know, a bow on top there.
Yeah.
Mark (12:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I mean, these are things that aretremendously kind when someone, you
know, opens an envelope or you canput the, a little gift certificate for
whatever it is in a box, right, andwrap it, and all that kind of stuff.
People will gen generally be verywarmed by the fact that you want
(12:47):
to put personal attention and timeinto your relationship with them.
Excuse me
Yucca (12:54):
things that you create.
I mean, one of my favoritegifts I ever got was a,
Mark (13:01):
Mm-hmm.
Yucca (13:02):
I mean, brother-in-law wrote us a poem and it was just so thoughtful, and
you can tell that he really worked on it.
And it, you know, I, I have it up.
I don't put a lot of things on the wall.
I've got it up on the wall becauseit just has stayed with me for all of
these years, just how amazing it was,
Mark (13:19):
How lovely.
Yeah, and people are creativein all kinds of ways.
I mean, the handmade gift.
Not to be confused with theHandmaid's Tale, the hand hyphen
made gift is a wonderful thing.
You know, whether, whether it's apiece of writing or a piece of music
(13:40):
or a compilation CD of music that youthink the person would like or a Or,
or something from, from a local artist,
Yucca (13:51):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (13:52):
because I mean, to me there is a categorical difference between an artwork
that was created by a local artistthat is trying to sustain themselves
through their art and something thatwas manufactured in a factory in China.
Yucca (14:08):
Right.
Mark (14:09):
They're, they're just, they're not the same.
You know, supporting your localproducers of beautiful objects, right?
That's a wonderful thing.
If, if, if the kind of person thatyou want to make a gift for is the
sort of person that appreciatesthat kind of thing, then by
all means, you know, do that.
And I should say, now, I, I mentionedkind of the, the first part of my
(14:33):
formula earlier, which is aboutmaking sure that children have.
Gift receiving experience.
What we do is we don't do gifts as adults.
Yucca (14:46):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (14:46):
We really don't.
I mean, when, when we needsomething, we, we get it.
Yucca (14:51):
Mm.
Mark (14:53):
and so what we have done in the past is we put up a, we put up
a yule tree, a mid-winter tree anddecorated and all that great stuff,
and we put treasures underneath.
Yucca (15:08):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (15:08):
Things that we have that we just love, that are really cool.
Like I have an antique uranium glassslipper that that phosphorouses
under ultraviolet light becauseit's uranium glass, right?
They used to make that and it's justthis very beautiful little thing.
So it's one of the things thatgoes under the tree and it gives
(15:29):
us a sense of kind of wealth.
You know, look, look at the coolthings that are in our life.
You know, objects from nature toappreciate, you know, antlers and bones
and skulls and abalone shells and,you know, all these wonderful things.
So we, we don't do thegift thing for adults.
(15:54):
And we might make an exception once ina while if there's something that seems
like particularly needed or wanted onthe part of some adult that we love.
But the amount of stress that is takenoff of you by not having to buy a
thing for this long list of recipients.
(16:18):
Is profound.
It will make a huge difference inyour experience of the holidays.
Yucca (16:24):
Yeah, it really does.
And I, I wanted to add on a littlebit with what you were saying.
You talked about the different types ofgifts and then also for the children.
You know, giving them the, thetraditional kind of box gifts, but
that's something that you can do bothof, and as time goes on, the ratio of
(16:46):
which kind of gift they're getting asthey're becoming teenagers, as they're
growing into adulthood, it shiftswhat, what you're doing with them,
Mark (16:55):
Right.
Yucca (16:55):
And so then it's just a natural thing and it's not, it's never.
Being deprived.
It's about just what this is really about,is about the, the love for each other and
the gratitude and the giving and the, youknow, to use the to be stereotypical,
the spirit of giving, right.
It really is.
(17:16):
Right.
And, and being about that and notthe, the object right now there is
also, there are a lot of, of practicalthings that this time of year.
You know, coming out of harvest,being about to go into the, to these
very cold times of year when there'snot a lot coming out of the garden,
(17:37):
there's not a lot being produced,of being ready for the cold to come.
So there's, there's some practical partabout, you know, the giving the socks,
the, that sort of thing that just.
To being prepared materiallyfor what's to come there.
There's an element of that as well, whichI think is important just to keep in mind
(17:58):
that that's one way that we do show loveis to make sure, hey, you've got, you've
got your warm socks for the year, right?
Mark (18:06):
Yeah.
You're, you're, you'regonna be comfortable.
Yucca (18:08):
yeah.
Mark (18:09):
Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a great thought.
In Iceland, it's traditional to givebooks for Christmas, and Christmas Day
is a day of sitting around in warm socks,drinking hot chocolate and reading books.
Yucca (18:23):
Oh, wonderful.
Mark (18:24):
The,
Yucca (18:25):
Cuddling with kiddies too.
I, if they've got cats, right?
Cat cuddling.
Mark (18:28):
Yeah.
You know, those kinds of traditionsthey make for some very warm memories.
They really do make forsome super nice times.
And having downtime like thatin the holidays is another
thing that's really important.
When we talk about when we talk aboutself-care that's certainly one thing to
(18:49):
be considering is when am I doing nothing?
Yucca (18:53):
right?
Mark (18:53):
know, it's, it's, it's hard to imagine that it's possible, but
you gotta do nothing sometimes.
Yucca (18:59):
Or at least.
Have nobody else's mind in yours.
Cause we've really lost solitude,especially in the last decade or so
as, as the social media and smartphonesand all of that stuff has just kind
of invaded into our personal lives.
So there's so little time that we'reever simply alone with ourselves, and
(19:24):
I think that that's essential, right?
I think we're social animals.
We need to be around other peopleas well, but, , but especially
in the dark of the year,
Mark (19:33):
Yes.
Yucca (19:34):
to be alone a little bit is, is just vitally important,
Mark (19:38):
I, I completely agree.
And ironically, the inverse is trueas well because you, it's a time for
gathering with loved ones and for,you know, celebrating the fact that we
have people that love us in our livesand, and all that good kind of stuff.
But you can go overboard with that.
People, people, especially introvertedpeople, or neurodiverse people who get
(20:00):
overwhelmed by too much social stimulusreally need their, their alone time.
And so it's important to, to planfor that and make sure it happens.
Yucca (20:12):
Yeah.
And thinking about both, it's kindof like in the dark of the year.
We we're celebrating the light as well.
I mean, that's a lot of what the Christmastree with the lights on it is about,
is bringing that light into the dark.
But we're recognizing and seeing both.
It's a celebration of both.
So I think that that's one wayto look at it with the, with the
(20:34):
family, but with self as well.
Right.
Solitude and company.
Mark (20:40):
So wanted to talk a little bit about a couple of other gifty sorts of ideas.
There's always food, know, baked goods.
I mean, an incredible gift would be, youknow, cook dinner for people and bring it
to their house, you know, the week before.
Before the big event, you know, something,you know, just when things are going
(21:05):
super crazy, you know, give people ameal that they don't have to think about.
You know, just, just being aware of whatpeople's needs are and, you know, thinking
about your own, you know, your own.
You know, where are the places whereyou get really exhausted and you think,
oh God, I wish I didn't have to do X.
Well, if somebody else did X foryou, wouldn't that be amazing?
Yucca (21:26):
Mm-hmm.
right.
Mark (21:28):
Yeah.
So, I really encourage that, that theincorporation of that, that personal
touch into gifting Either throughexperiences or through handmade things
or through which includes baking andcooking and all that good kind of stuff.
And then also because there isthere's a guilt factor in in.
(21:54):
Commercial acquisition as well.
Just really being mindful,you know, of where things come
from, who you're buying from.
There are, you know, there aretons of Etsy stores, there are
tons of indigenous sort of.
Internet based stores that you can orderthings from, you know, figure out who you
(22:15):
really want to be giving your money to.
Is it some international conglomeratewith shareholders, or is it,
you know, just somebody who'strying to, trying to get by?
Yucca (22:25):
Hm.
Wonderful.
Well, why don't we, why don't wetalk about the second part of this
which is the family gatheringsor the social gatherings.
Maybe not necessarily family, butmaybe the office gatherings or whatever
it is because it's a big one, right?
There's a big one in terms ofwhether you are of the same religion
(22:47):
or not, but also just dealing.
The various personalities whenpeople are in this kind of
heightened place to begin with.
Mark (22:55):
And I, I think a great place to start with that is the recognition
that in those circumstances, everybodyis under a certain amount of stress,
Yucca (23:05):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (23:06):
except possibly the most garous extrovert, the.
Pretty much everybody elseis feeling some level of what
are people gonna think of me?
You know, how this is the office party.
How is my boss thinking of me?
You know, there's, there's weirdUncle Ralph his weird opinions.
(23:28):
How am I going to avoid getting reignedinto a long conversation with him?
All those, all those things, right?
So under having a little compassionfor the other people in the room is
very helpful in, in my experience.
It is, it is so challenging forus as people, and this is a weird
(23:51):
thing to really get that the otherpeople around us are fully fleshed
out human beings with internal livesand, you know, their, their own.
Yucca (24:03):
story.
Mark (24:03):
Their own journey, their own aspirations and their own
internal voices that nag atthem and all that kind of stuff.
There's a, there's a term for that,that realization called Saunder which
when I heard that, I was glad thatthere was a word for it, because
I think it's really important thatpeople have that experience of others.
It makes them morecompassionate and more humane.
(24:27):
Sa, S O N D E R.
Yucca (24:29):
Mm.
Okay.
Mark (24:30):
And I'm not sure what language it's in.
The, so that, that's a place to startis understanding that everybody may
be a little bit on edge, a littlebit keyed up because they're.
At, at some level, when you'redoing social engagement, there's
a performance aspect to it, right?
(24:51):
know, I, I wanna make sureI'm acting appropriately.
I wanna make sure I'm, you know,not displeasing the people around
me, all that kind of stuff.
Yucca (25:01):
Right.
Reading everything correctly and Yeah.
And responding and, and, and justbeing compassionate for those people.
Yeah.
And for yourself too, right?
Yeah.
Mark (25:16):
Yeah, so, so now you've got these social engagements
that you've gotta go to.
Well, how do you take care ofyourself, especially as someone who
practices aio paganism or non theistpaganism, or some other variety of
naturalistic earth honoring path.
(25:36):
You know, as someone who is an outlier.
Philosophically and spiritually, howdo you kind of stand in the truth
of yourself while at the same timenot picking fights with others that
may have strong opinions about that?
(25:57):
And I guess my first answer tothat is that if their opinions
are strong enough, you don't.
Yucca (26:05):
great.
Mark (26:06):
You, you, there's no point in, in, you know, trying to win an
argument with some rabidly, right wing,evangelical Christian who just wants
to tell you that you're going to hell.
Yucca (26:19):
Right.
So the, so the first step is,is this something that you're
going to engage with or not?
Right?
And in many cases, you may simply choosenot to, but in the situation, in the
event that you do choose to, right?
Then thinking about before you go intothat, how are you going to prepare and
(26:39):
how are you going to respond for it?
You know, you, you might choosesomething like doing some sort
of, you know, shielding ritualbefore you go in, maybe doing some.
Premeditation on role playing of likelyscenarios that are gonna come up.
Practice, practice some of yourdeflection techniques or expressions
that you're going to use.
If it is, if you've decided that it'sreally valuable and worth it to you to be
(27:04):
there for whatever that reason is, right?
Cause it's not our.
Job here to be telling you whatyou should or shouldn't do.
We're not, you, right?
We have no idea what it feels liketo be you or the shoes that you're
in, but we're just encouraging you tothink about how to protect yourself
in that situation and still get the,what you're trying to get out of it.
(27:24):
But no, at the end of the day, you're,you can't control anybody else, right?
You cannot control the outcome.
You can work on trying to get theoutcome you want, but know that
you're not, you can't control.
Mark (27:36):
Right?
Yucca (27:37):
Right?
And if you're gonna go intothis situation, you've gotta be
prepared for that possibility.
Mark (27:42):
Yes.
So part of thinking about that, howyou're gonna protect yourself is
how disclosive do I want to be withthis particular group of people.
It's your office party, for example.
If the subject comes up, youmay wanna say, well, my family
celebrates the winter solstice.
You don't need to goany further than that.
(28:05):
You have a right to have yourreligious beliefs in the workplace,
just like everybody else does.
But, so you may want to sort ofexpress this is, you know, this,
this is what me and my family do.
And then there may be questions,well, how does that work?
And what's that about?
And you can explain as muchas you're comfortable with in
Yucca (28:25):
Or not, you don't.
Mark (28:26):
or not.
Yes, exactly.
Yucca (28:28):
And here's the thing, depending on how you feel about it,
you don't, you don't owe them that.
You also don't owe them the truth.
Right.
Mark (28:39):
true too.
Yucca (28:39):
That's, that's up to you.
If you don't feel like that'ssomething you wanna get into, oh,
wonder how was your Christmas?
Oh, great.
You don't need to say, oh, actuallyI don't practice, you know, I
don't believe in Christmas or
Mark (28:52):
I don't
Yucca (28:52):
like that.
Mark (28:53):
Christmas.
Yucca (28:54):
You know, you don't owe 'em anything, it's fine.
It's however you wanna handle that.
Mark (29:00):
Yep.
Yep, that's true.
And that's, that's an example of where, ofwhere, you know, being literally truthful
can actually be a lot more harmful than,you know, applying the, the, the social
lubricant of the little white lie.
That just lets things keepclicking along smoothly.
(29:24):
And of course we have to be very judiciousabout deciding when those things apply,
but it bears saying that A lot of peoplewould be a lot lonelier if they were fully
candid about everything in their lives.
with everybody around them.
Yucca (29:40):
Mm-hmm.
And so, you know, we've been talkingabout the context of an office party,
but that may also be the same, but youhave the same things to think about
with the family gathering whether you'rethe one organizing that or the one
attending it, or, you know, And again,maybe it's not just one gathering.
Maybe you've got three gatheringsand you're going to the in-laws
(30:01):
and yours and all, and then allof the different sides, you know?
So this is something I would encouragekind of sitting down, like literally
sitting down and just having a littlestrategy party with yourself, right?
If you do journaling or something likethat, it's a wonderful time just to maybe
make some, just write down some of the.
(30:22):
Possibilities and the strategiesthat you wanna have and what, what
are your values and, and what doyou hope to get out of it, and what
do you wanna protect yourself from?
And, and just be, go into it being awarebecause once when you're aware, you
have a, a better chance of being ableto respond in a way that you want to
(30:44):
respond when you're not caught off guard.
Yeah.
Mark (30:47):
right.
Yeah.
And the other thing to remember is that.
And this is something that may notleap immediately to mind for people
that come out of traditions likeChristianity that require that you only
be a Christian and not anything else,naturalistic, paganism is not like that.
(31:09):
You can go through all of therituals of, of a Christian Christmas
gathering and no harm, no foul.
You haven't offended anybody or betrayedyourself or hurt yourself or anything.
Yucca (31:22):
Yeah, there's
Mark (31:22):
You can.
Yucca (31:23):
gonna be mad at you about it.
Mark (31:25):
That's right.
You, you can, you can have and stilldo all of your own celebrations and
rituals on the solstice or as closeto the solstice as works for you.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
So there's nothing hypocritical about it.
So you don't necessarily need to, youknow, lead the, the prayer to Jesus.
But you can bow your headand just sort of be there.
(31:49):
That all that's up to you.
And it's, it's perfectly okay to playalong in order not to create conflict.
Yucca (31:57):
Yeah.
As long as that feels good to you, right?
If it, if, if that doesn't feelgood to you, then you don't need to
be, you don't need to put yourselfin this, that situation, right?
So,
Mark (32:08):
Yeah.
And, and that really is important to saybecause there are, I mean, I know there
are a lot of people for whom it's like, Icouldn't not go to my parents' Christmas.
Gathering.
Right?
I couldn't not go to that.
Even though they know thatthey really need to betray
(32:28):
themselves deeply to be there.
And when confronted with that kindof a paradox you really need to think
seriously about whether you're gonna go.
Yucca (32:40):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (32:41):
You know, it might, it might actually be the, the better part of Valor
to just say, I, I can't come this year.
I, it just, it doesn't feellike it would be right for me.
Yucca (32:56):
Mm.
Mark (32:57):
And you don't have to go into any more detail than that.
Yucca (33:01):
And here's the 10 of cookies that I baked for you,
Mark (33:03):
Yes,
Yucca (33:04):
Or whatever, whatever it is that might smooth it out.
Mark (33:07):
Uhhuh
Yucca (33:07):
Yeah, so we actually last year we did a, a full
episode specifically on this.
So if this is something thatpeople are, are kind of wanting
more of definitely check out ourepisode from last year on, on this.
Mark (33:21):
was that a year ago?
Yucca (33:23):
It was a year ago.
Yep.
Mark (33:25):
Oh man.
Yucca (33:26):
right.
We would've talked about this earlyDecember maybe, maybe even late November.
So it just flies.
But why don't we transition now to someof the things that we can do during this.
Time period in preparing forthe holidays, throughout the
holidays in terms of self care.
Right.
And again, we'll get later into some ofthe traditions and stuff that you, we
(33:49):
can do the specific holiday celebrations.
But but is there something that youwould suggest to start with Mark?
Mark (33:55):
Well, I start with the body.
Yucca (33:57):
Mm.
Mark (33:57):
I mean there's all the psychological stuff that we, that we go through at this
time of the year, and there are all thetechniques that we have for working with
the psyche, but getting enough sleep,
Yucca (34:09):
Absolutely.
Mark (34:10):
eating, eating some semblance of a decent diet, even if it's a
little heavier in sugar than itusually is, it's sugar and fat.
Don't worry about that so much, butmake sure you're getting protein.
Make sure you're getting a vegetable
Yucca (34:23):
whatever it is that, you know, works for your
Mark (34:26):
for you.
Yeah, exactly.
And get that sleep.
Be aware of how much you're drinking.
Yucca (34:32):
mm-hmm.
Mark (34:33):
Because it seems like all of these gatherings in, in many cases,
there's, there's alcohol going on.
So if you do drink, just really be awareof, of how much you're drinking and
if it starts to feel like that's notwhat you wanna be doing pair it back.
You know, tell people, and youcan facilitate that for yourself
(34:56):
by bringing something to drinkfor yourself to a gathering.
Right?
There's wonderful like.
Sparkling cranberry ciders andpomegranate ciders and things like that.
There are some really delicious thingsnow and I'm gonna put in a plug for
my, my local brewery, Lagunitas BrewingCompany, which has a great beer called
(35:18):
a n a, which is it's, or I P n A.
It's like an ipa, but it'sna, which is no alcohol.
And it's delicious.
It actually tastes like a beer, butit doesn't have any alcohol in it.
So, it's worth checkingthat out if you need to.
So, you know, enough said about that.
If you don't drink, this can be avery challenging time of the year.
(35:41):
So, take care of yourself.
If you go to meetings, go to meetingsdo the things that you need to
do in order to keep all that in.
Yucca (35:49):
right.
And just a little tip with ourbodies, if you can get a little bit
of sun early in the morning, thatjust, just even if it's a couple of
minutes where you're outside and you.
Kind of turn your face towards the sun.
It really does make a big difference interms of resetting your clock and, and
kind of helping you out with that, withthe sleep patterns and just getting your
(36:13):
body to be doing the things that it needsto be doing at the right time, because
this time of year it can be really.
Really tricky on our bodies and ourrhythms as and as we have the lights
on all the time and later on, andwhen is it dark and when is it not?
And, and our, we are, first and foremost,we are physical creatures, right?
(36:34):
We are animals with, you know,millions and millions of years
of adaptation to a certainenvironment, which we are not living.
Mark (36:43):
Right.
Yucca (36:44):
We, we are animals in captivity, right?
We're, we're.
And so just trying to be aware of thata little bit is a, is a good start.
Mark (36:53):
Yes.
Yucca (36:53):
So, yeah.
Mark (36:56):
that brings us to the, the psychological things that we can do
in order to support ourselves and.
To me, the number one thing there,if you're taking care of your, your
physical self, the number one thingthere is to go back to that first
principle of, of naturalistic paganism,which is pay attention, right?
(37:20):
If there's snowfall, watchthe snowfall for 15 minutes.
Listen to the rain on the roof,crack the window open so that you
can smell the smell of the rain.
Yucca (37:30):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (37:30):
Go for a walk in the snow.
Notice what birds are around, if any.
Just, you know, noticewhat phase the moon is in.
Yucca (37:39):
Mm-hmm.
Mark (37:39):
There's so many.
There are so many simple things that wecan do to keep ourselves re-grounded in
the fact that, okay, I'm on a, I'm on aphysical planet that's going through a
physical set of processes and all thisculture stuff is fantastic, but I'm still
just on a physical planet doing physicalprocesses and it's all gonna work out.
Yucca (38:03):
Speaking of the moon December has the mites, which
is one of the biggest meteor.
There's two really bigmeteor showers a year.
And if you get clear skies pretty muchfor the rest of the month even if you
don't get it on the night that it'speaking, you've got some good chances
to see some really beautiful meteors.
So if you get a chance just to be outthere and, and right now, Mars and Jupiter
(38:25):
are both really bright up in the sky.
Even if you're in a city, those are, areprobably gonna pierce through that light
pollution and just be really beautiful.
Just to take a momentand just take a look,
Mark (38:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So other psychological things and it, I,I put this in the psychological category,
even though it's a physical thing.
Take a shower.
Yucca (38:49):
Yeah.
Mark (38:51):
Especially if you go through any kind of a stressful experience,
take a shower, there is somethingabout, and there's literally
something physical about it.
It's not just the sensations all overyour body that create more of a grounded
sense of being in your physical self.
There, there is a way that splashingwater creates negative ions that tend
(39:14):
to kind of ground out the the, the kindof zazi feeling, the jed feeling that
you can get from having From havingsocial interactions or being in a crowded
store or any of those kinds of things.
So that's really a go-toas far as I'm concerned.
Yucca (39:34):
I don't know about the ions, but I know that it, that for me, the rush, the
sound of the rushing water and that justbeing able to control those, that that
sensory input is just, is really amazing.
Like, I'll do a shower and then a bath,right first the shower to kind of wash
it to like to, to do like, okay, thefeeling like I'm washing it all away and
(39:57):
then, The bath of just getting to justfeel like melting into that water and
Mark (40:03):
Soaking in the heat.
Yucca (40:05):
And I, I like to actually run to be in the tub while it's filling, so
it has that, that sound, that rushingwaterfall sound and it's filling up.
And that's one of thefavorite things that we do in.
In the holidays because Idon't have a tub where I live.
We don't actually have hot watereither, so we, we just heat our
water up on the stove to like dodishes or something like that.
(40:26):
But we go into town to my mother-in-law's.
She's got the big bath tub with waterheater and it's like, oh yeah, we can
do some nice relaxing for a long time.
Mark (40:39):
nice.
Very nice.
Yucca (40:40):
yeah.
That's a wonderful thing about theholidays, but there's other things too.
Like a shower is a really wonderful one.
But if you don't have access tothat, right, there are other types
of things that you can do that feellike you are transitioning, that
you're switching between these.
You know, you're getting awayfrom some of that stress.
(41:02):
You're letting go.
I mean, there's the shaking, there'sthe dancing, there's the stepping
into a ritual space, and we've talkeda lot about this on, on the podcast.
And you can do things like goinginto a, the dark room, right?
Turning all the lights off,and then things like that.
Mark (41:20):
right, right.
Coming back to yourself psychologicallyis very important at this kind of
time because it is so easy to getto be what we call ungrounded.
You know, it's easy to get your thoughtsspinning if you're dealing with family.
It's easy to get all the old messages fromthe family going again, right about ways
(41:43):
that they criticize you or that they don'trespect you sufficiently, or that they
haven't recognized how you've changed.
Yucca (41:50):
And all the things they do that are just so annoying that drive you crazy.
Yeah.
Mark (41:56):
Yeah.
Yucca (41:57):
All those things that you feel about them.
Mark (41:59):
so all that stuff can be going in your mind, and if you just let
it keep going, then you can becomeincreasingly stressed and more and
more kind of separated from yourself.
So.
Sit down and justbreathe for five minutes.
It doesn't have to be a super long time.
Yucca (42:18):
Off.
Take the, the earbuds out of your ears.
Mark (42:22):
yeah.
Get, get away from the gadgetry fora minute and just, you know, the
other thing that I find is very,very helpful, and this sounds.
Like, sort of brute force magic making.
But get a big rock you know, arock that weighs 15, 20 pounds.
(42:44):
Sit it in your lap, sit on the ground,or sit on the floor and just sit
cross-legged if that's comfortable foryou, and just sit that rock in your lap.
And.
Yucca (42:54):
just ground with it.
Mark (42:55):
Just wait.
Yucca (42:56):
Wait.
Yeah.
Mark (42:57):
Yeah.
You'll, you'll be amazed at what adifference it makes, just feeling that
gravity pulling you back to the earth.
And it, it clears the, clearsall the spinning stuff out.
It's, it's it's a powerful technique.
Yucca (43:13):
Mm.
Yeah.
Love that one.
Mark (43:17):
S.
I I discovered that, or, orinnovated it or whatever it was.
My, my former wife was in areally kind of panicky space.
She had I don't even rememberwhat the circumstance was, but
she was in this very hypermanic.
(43:40):
Very anxious space and you know,was telling me about all the reasons
that she felt that and that thiswas so, and she wasn't a pagan.
And so I said, well, you know, we.
We, we do stuff with things like that.
So have a seat, youknow, sit on the ground.
(44:01):
And I put this big rock in her lap andshe immediately began kind of to giggle.
It was like, . That's great.
That's so great.
And sure enough, you know, given10 minutes or so, her consciousness
had really sort of changed.
But yeah, so that's whyI keep a big rock around.
Yucca (44:18):
It's great.
Yeah, so this, this really can be sucha lovely time of year and a really,
really meaningful time of year and,and, You know, getting ready, ending
out this year and getting readyfor a new one and, and all of that.
And so it's just a time that canalso, you know, can be stressful.
(44:41):
And so it's a good time to be awareand just really be present with
ourselves and, and really honest withourselves about what it is that, that
we need, what's feeding us what's not.
And thinking about.
You know, what do we value andwhat obligations do we or do we not
have and, and how to handle that.
So, yeah.
Mark (45:01):
And if there are things that we feel obligated to do that we really
don't want to do, are there alternatives?
Is, is there some otherway to get at that?
You know, is it possible to.
I don't know.
I, I, I don't know what the example is.
If, if the holiday meal with the familyis a nightmare, maybe a restaurant,
(45:24):
you know, there, there are, thereare other ways of coming at this.
If, if it's
Yucca (45:28):
Yeah.
Just some creative thinking about it.
Mark (45:31):
Yeah.
Yucca (45:32):
Yeah.
So.
So we hope that you all have awonderful intentional holiday season
Mark (45:44):
Yes.
And may cramps come, but not takeyou away in his bag this evening.
Because in, in, in Bavariait's Crumps knocked.
So, hope that you don't getwhipped with Bert's twigs too
much or hauled away in his bag.
Yucca (45:59):
That's great.
All right, well thank you everybody.
We will see you next week.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.