December 19, 2022 • 41 mins
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S3E43 TRANSCRIPT:----more----
Mark: Welcome back to the Wonder Science-Based Paganism. I'm your host, mark,
Yucca: and I'm the other one, Yucca.
Mark: And today we are talking about all things related to the winter solstice and youe. Happy Yule, everyone, or whatever you choose to call it. Yep. Happy solstice.
Yucca: It's it's amazing that we're here already. I think we say that about every holiday. Really? Yeah. But we,
Mark: we do, we just can't believe we're getting older. Is is what's happening here?
Yucca: Yeah. Well, December thing seems like it just started and yet here we are already. So, yeah. But speaking of that, this is something that we've been doing for a really long.
I think that's a good segue into our first section here is let's talk about what this holiday is because it's based on something very real. This isn't just a day that we randomly assigned some random meaning to. It's something that humans. all over the world have been observing as far as we can tell, for thousands and thousands of years.
Yes.
Mark: Yes. The, I, I just learned of a new New to me, archeological find in the wheelchair plane, which is where Stonehenge is and so forth. There was apparently a gold plate found with a a v incised on it, a large v, and the V is exactly 82 degrees. The angle is 82 degrees, which is the difference between the summer solstice and the winter solstice on the.
Hmm. So apparently this plate was. used as kind of a portable observatory in a way where you could shoot the sun on the summer solstice and say, okay, well it's gonna be over there on the winter solstice. I mean, for all we know, it might have been an engineering tool used to help build stone head . Yeah. Because Stonehenge lines up perfectly with the winter solstice, right?
With the sun rising on the winter
Yucca: solstice. Right. And that, that kind of structure, something that we see again all over the world, we see that in the Americas and in Eurasia and, and really all over. That's right. And sometimes it's the winter solta, sometimes it's the summer. But it's the same ideas that we have been paying attention to.
What the, the relationship between where the sun is in our sky or the it's apparent position and what that means to the rest of the ecosystem that we're in. It'd be very important to.
Mark: Right. Yeah. Right. I mean, we were talking about this before we recorded. I mean, in the, in the case of the wintertime where food is becoming very scarce, not only that, but there are fewer hours in the day to go look for it.
Mm-hmm. so. You know, noticing when the hours were going to start to get longer again would be a really big deal in terms of your survival. As we get later into history, we see that this is the time when all of the, the harvest that had not been preserved in some way by pickling or drying or smoking or salting or, you know, whatever.
Had to be eaten because things were starting to go bad. Mm-hmm. . And we need to get all those calories into ourselves so that we can survive the lean months coming up before eggs start to become available. And some of the earliest greens start coming up and the lambs start being born and all that kind of stuff.
Mm-hmm. , right? Yeah. . So it's a time That is it. It has kind of an internal paradox in it, right? It's the time to have a big party and eat a lot. So it's a time to get together, celebrate with our loved ones, share food, share, drink, share company in, and sort of keep that light alive through the darkest time of the year.
But it's also confronting the fact that things are gonna get tough. coming up in the next few months. These, these are not gonna be a lot of fun. So this is sort of the last
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark (00:32):
Welcome back to the Wonder Science-Based Paganism.
I'm your host, mark, andI'm the other one, Yucca.
And today we are talking about all thingsrelated to the winter solstice and youe.
Happy Yule, everyone, orwhatever you choose to
Yucca (00:47):
call it.
Yep.
Happy solstice.
It's it's amazing that we're here already.
I think we say that about every holiday.
Really?
Yeah.
But we,
Mark (00:58):
we do, we just can't believe we're getting older.
Is is what's happening here?
Yucca (01:03):
Yeah.
Well, December thing seems like it juststarted and yet here we are already.
So, yeah.
But speaking of that, this is somethingthat we've been doing for a really long.
I think that's a good segue intoour first section here is let's talk
about what this holiday is becauseit's based on something very real.
(01:24):
This isn't just a day that we randomlyassigned some random meaning to.
It's something that humans.
all over the world have beenobserving as far as we can tell, for
thousands and thousands of years.
Yes.
Mark (01:38):
Yes.
The, I, I just learned of a newNew to me, archeological find in
the wheelchair plane, which iswhere Stonehenge is and so forth.
There was apparently a gold platefound with a a v incised on it, a large
v, and the V is exactly 82 degrees.
(01:59):
The angle is 82 degrees, which is thedifference between the summer solstice
and the winter solstice on the.
Hmm.
So apparently this plate was.
used as kind of a portable observatoryin a way where you could shoot
the sun on the summer solsticeand say, okay, well it's gonna be
(02:22):
over there on the winter solstice.
I mean, for all we know, it mighthave been an engineering tool used
to help build stone head . Yeah.
Because Stonehenge lines up perfectlywith the winter solstice, right?
With the sun rising on the winter
Yucca (02:36):
solstice.
Right.
And that, that kind of structure,something that we see again all over
the world, we see that in the Americasand in Eurasia and, and really all over.
That's right.
And sometimes it's the wintersolta, sometimes it's the summer.
But it's the same ideas that wehave been paying attention to.
(03:00):
What the, the relationship betweenwhere the sun is in our sky or the it's
apparent position and what that means tothe rest of the ecosystem that we're in.
It'd be very important to.
Mark (03:17):
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
I mean, we were talking aboutthis before we recorded.
I mean, in the, in the case of thewintertime where food is becoming very
scarce, not only that, but there arefewer hours in the day to go look for it.
Mm-hmm.
so.
You know, noticing when the hourswere going to start to get longer
again would be a really bigdeal in terms of your survival.
(03:39):
As we get later into history, we seethat this is the time when all of the,
the harvest that had not been preservedin some way by pickling or drying or
smoking or salting or, you know, whatever.
Had to be eaten because thingswere starting to go bad.
(04:01):
Mm-hmm.
. And we need to get all those caloriesinto ourselves so that we can survive
the lean months coming up beforeeggs start to become available.
And some of the earliest greens startcoming up and the lambs start being
born and all that kind of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
, right?
(04:22):
Yeah.
. So it's a time That is it.
It has kind of an internalparadox in it, right?
It's the time to have abig party and eat a lot.
So it's a time to get together,celebrate with our loved ones, share
food, share, drink, share companyin, and sort of keep that light alive
(04:49):
through the darkest time of the year.
But it's also confronting the factthat things are gonna get tough.
coming up in the next few months.
These, these are notgonna be a lot of fun.
So this is sort of thelast hurrah in a way.
Mm-hmm.
, before we get to some very, you know,before the advent of modern supply
(05:13):
chains and agriculture, these weretimes when things, things can get pretty
Yucca (05:19):
dicey.
Yeah.
It's what you've been preparing for all.
. Right.
Really?
Yeah.
Right.
This is what you've beencutting the wood for all year.
Mm-hmm.
, this is what you've beenraising the food for.
This is, this is it, right?
Yeah.
To
Mark (05:32):
get through this gap Yeah.
Of the next couple of months, nextthree months, you know, depending
on where you are, maybe even longer.
Mm-hmm.
, that.
Where the natural world is not going toproduce easily available food for you.
Mm-hmm.
. And you've gotta rely on your stores.
And I mean, that's an inherentlyanxiety producing phenomenon, right?
(05:55):
Watching your stores get lower and lowerand lower every day as you eat to survive.
And trying to kind ofeyeball, well, are we gonna.
are we gonna make it to the seasonwhen the birds are laying eggs and
we can start to get some calories?
Yucca (06:09):
Right?
So it has that, all of that around it.
And I think there's also abit of in a celebration of
the darkness as well, right?
Yes.
There's a celebration of the lightin the darkness, but also that.
Quiet darkness.
This is, we haven't done anepisode on the dark in a few years.
We did a few years back.
(06:30):
I think that might beone we should revisit.
That's true in the next couple monthswhile we are still in this dark period.
And the, in the importance ofthat quietness and that time of
reflection and that time of thewaiting and the rest, that really
comes with the dark of the year.
Right.
And that's the.
(06:51):
The time around the solstice is quiteliterally the darkest time of the
year if you aren't lighting it upwith, with artificial lights, right?
Mm-hmm.
. Mark: Yeah.
And when you think about it in kindof grand cosmological terms The
darkness is the source that thelight kind of blooms out of, right?
(07:12):
Mm-hmm.
, I mean, we start, we, we start with anincredible burst of explosive light,
but very quickly everything cools offand we have this sea of undifferentiated
particles at first, but as stars beginto kindle, light begins to come back
into that darkness, and so it becomes,, it becomes a, a powerful metaphor
(07:36):
for how things are born in darkness.
Mm-hmm.
and, and then evolve intothe the waking world.
The daylight world, yeah.
Hmm.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout how, what, what that means
(07:57):
to us personally as pagans.
What is that in our practice?
Mark (08:03):
Sure.
Would you like to go first?
Yucca (08:06):
Sure.
So we use the framework ofthe wheel of the year in our
household and the winter solstice.
This is the time where we're, we'rethinking about those things that
we've just been talking about.
But we also, this is whenwe're honoring the forests as.
So there's a lot of, of imagery forus and smells and things like that
(08:30):
that have to do with the forest,especially the evergreen forest.
And this also happens smackin the middle of just.
So many holidays, , there are just so manyholidays this week that we're going into.
I don't know how my kids are gonnamake it through all the holidays
because we have the solsticehappening right in the middle.
(08:50):
The Hanukkah starts . Sowe're recording this Saturday.
So Sunday night, Hanukkah starts.
So they'll do that on myside with their softa.
They'll do Christmas with theirgrandmother on the other side.
And it's just this, this, all of thisactivity and bustling and just the
celebration and the, you don't have
Mark (09:07):
an aluminum pole for celebrating Festivus.
Yucca (09:10):
You know, we don't, but I think that if I suggested that to my
partner that it would show up , I'mpretty sure it would, we would have it.
But the, the solstice itself inthe middle of all of that is a if.
, we, we do secular Christmas andsolstice is separate for us.
Mm-hmm.
than that is.
(09:31):
Although on the other side of theyear we do do presents with summer
solstice as well, but the, thepresents are, are Christmas presents.
But the, the solstice is moreof a moment of reflection.
Right.
It's a, we'll wake up and watch thesunrise and watch the sunset and be.
And spend a little bit of time going out.
(09:52):
We'll run out if there's snow, we'llrun outside barefoot in our little
barefoot feet and come back in andsit in front of the fire and, and
have that kind of reflective momentthat you were talking about earlier.
That that reflection that, thatcomes along with this time of year
that I think is something that isn'treally emphasized in the secular.
(10:14):
Approach to this time of year.
Mark (10:17):
So, yeah, I agree.
I agree.
I, sorry to interrupt you.
Oh no.
Please, please jump
Yucca (10:22):
in.
Yeah.
Mark (10:22):
I mean, obviously the commercialization of the
holidays has meant that.
it's become very much around stuff andaccumulation of stuff, purchasing of
stuff, distribution of stuff as well aslots of, you know, rich food and drink.
Mm-hmm.
, , and that seems to be MO and family,certainly family is a theme.
(10:45):
Mm-hmm.
, you know, for, you know, people gatheringtogether, at least in the ideal mm-hmm.
Conceptualization.
But it is true that the whole.
I'll, I'll come at thisa little bit sideways.
I'm, I'm an, I'm a singer and I'm, I'vedone a lot of singing of early music,
medieval and renaissance music, anda great deal of what that, what the
(11:08):
liturgical music of that period is about.
And of course, it's all Christian.
Mm-hmm.
, but it's this, it's this contemplationof the great mystery, right.
The.
The incredible thing thathappened that, you know, where
God made Mary pregnant mm-hmm.
and, and it's a contemplative thing.
(11:28):
It's a, it's, you know, sort of tryingto grasp the mind of God in a way.
Mm-hmm.
, I think we, pagans havesomething very similar.
We, we naturalistic non-theisticpagans since we're not thinking
about gods at this time.
Right.
Yucca (11:45):
If some, some people do have this as the birth of of whoever
their God is that, you know.
Right.
That is part of some pagan paths.
Yeah.
Yes.
Mark (11:55):
But I do think that in our tradition, This is the time of year
when the natural world comes asclose as it ever does to stopping.
because of the cold temperatures,everything slows way, way down.
(12:15):
And what is implicit or potentialfor the coming cycle is only
just starting to be conceived.
Mm-hmm.
And that's something that we can, canmeditate on as naturalistic pagans.
As atheopagan, becausewe can focus on what.
(12:37):
Imagining for the coming cycle, whatwe're aspiring to in the coming year?
For many of us, this is the wintersolstice is the beginning of the new year.
Mm-hmm.
, that's how I consider it.
And so in many ways it's thissort of birth moment and at births
(12:58):
we, we have a lot of dreams.
for, for our children.
We have a, a lot of thingsthat we hope for for them.
We wish them the best and wehave pictures in our minds about
what that might work out to be.
And I think that that can be true ofthe coming cycle of the year as well.
Mm-hmm.
(13:19):
? Yeah.
So.
. But you were talking about celebratingthe forests and the evergreens
particularly and the millions of holidays.
Yucca (13:29):
Yes.
So, so
Mark (13:30):
many, so, mm-hmm.
. So at, at a deeper level, what,what does this, what does this
holiday mean to you, Yucca?
What does it, what does it encourageyou to do in your practice?
Yucca (13:43):
This really is, this is a time.
of reflection and being and I know youwere just talking about the dreaming
portion, but for me, that comes a, thatcomes a little bit later in winter.
Oh, this is more of a,just being in the now.
Here we are.
I'm not, I'm not gettingready for anything now.
(14:03):
Right.
Got ready for the winter.
The winter is here.
The wood is stacked.
The, the, our water tanks are full.
The our pantry's full andnow, and in my work cycle too.
You know, I just taught mylast class for the semester.
I'm not teaching well for, I dohave some international classes,
(14:24):
but I'm not teaching any of the,the North American kids until
we're back in the, the new Year.
Right.
So it's like, uh, no, I just get to be,just to hang out, to be, to exist, to kind
of look at what, where, where I am rightnow, really just take stock, not in a.
(14:46):
Planning for the future,because that will come, right?
Yes.
But how, but I can't really planfor the future until I'm very
clear with where am I at right now?
And that's just what's mm-hmm.
like on emotional level.
And of course there's the practical tooof, you know, don't, don't go to the
grocery store without checking what'sin your fridge first, you know, . So,
(15:09):
but, so that's on a, but take that and.
To for life.
But this is like on an emotional level.
So that's emotionally what we're doing.
But that theme also, you'retalking about a family and just,
just enjoying life right now.
You know, it's really about that.
Just enjoying, and here we areand you know, this is what we
Mark (15:33):
got.
That's, that's great.
And, and as you mentioned it,it's, you know, I, I, I feel, I
guess that I do a lot of the same.
I mean, it's a time to enjoy the prettylights and the holiday traditions and.
not particularly to do work.
Mm-hmm.
or or even much planning for the future.
(15:55):
When I, when I talk aboutdreaming and imagination, it,
that's a very pre-planning Yes.
Sort of state.
It's just really sort of blue skying.
Kind of what, what can weimagine possibly happening over
the course of the next year?
Yucca (16:13):
Right.
think of it kind of like still beingunder the blankets in the early morning.
Mm-hmm.
, right?
Where you haven't really startedto make your list of, okay, what do
I actually have to do for the day?
But you're kind of in thatlike, oh, here I am, I'm okay.
I'm awake when I'm in the soft blankets.
Just thinking about everything.
Dreaming about everything.
Huh.
Mark (16:32):
Yes.
Warm and comfortable, which is somuch a, an aspect of of what this
holiday is supposed to be about.
Mm-hmm.
, , know, so many of the rituals thatwe do for Yule or mid-winter or,
you know, whatever you call it, thewinter solstice, have to do with
experiencing cold and darkness.
(16:53):
Mm-hmm.
for a while, just to really kind ofrub it in, make sure that we Yeah.
That we know, you know, what's reallygoing on out there and just how harsh and
and bleak, it can really be out there.
And then bringing that light back intothe home, back into where it's warm and
sheltered and the wind doesn't get to you,and the precipitation doesn't fall on you.
(17:17):
And coming back intowarmth and comfort again.
Mm-hmm.
. Yucca: Yeah.
Hmm.
So what are, what is it for you?
. Mark: Well, let me see.
To start with yes, there certainlyis a flurry of holidays and we do
have an aluminum pole on the 23rd.
On the 23rd, we erect the aluminumpole and air our grievances in,
(17:40):
in the time honored traditionof the Seinfeld Festivus.
Mm-hmm.
. It's just so funny and we happento have this old floor lamp with.
Upright, that's a pole, so we justcouldn't resist doing it every year.
. But we do a lot of the, the sortof Christmasy yule traditions,
(18:00):
like a yule tree and eatingwell and Let me correct that.
Eating, eating richly heavily.
Yeah.
Heavily.
Yeah.
Richly not necessarily.
Well, although ne mayo's pretty goodabout making me eat my vegetables.
. The, but the time of year,there's a, there's a.
(18:22):
It's ironic because for many peoplethis is a very stressful time of
year and they feel the tremendouspressure to buy things for everyone
and to deal with the financial stressof that and to do all those things.
We don't do gifts.
. We would, if we had children inour lives, we would give them to
children because it's really unfairto ask them to watch all of their
(18:46):
peers getting gifts at this time ofyear and not getting any themselves.
That would just be cruel.
Right.
Yucca (18:51):
Oh, and especially if, if the, the peers are doing the Santa thing where
like, it's a magical, it's a magical beingwho's bringing you these gifts, you know?
And, and you know why I Marcos nextdoor, get a, you know, this, the.
PS five or whatever they're on.
I don't know what they're on now.
Right.
Why do they get that?
You know, and, and you know, this magicalbeing can't even bring me anything.
(19:16):
Yeah.
Or, you know, he brings me socks.
Although socks are fantastic.
We're big sock
Mark (19:21):
fans here.
Yeah.
Boy, I, I love socks.
. So, so because we don't dogifts, we're not really under
those kinds of pressures and.
Work stuff fades away because the whole.
Commercial world other than retail,kind of takes a breath around this time.
Mm-hmm.
. Although that's certainly nottrue for many of the nonprofits
(19:43):
that I've worked for, which arecranking out services like crazy for
people who desperately need them.
Yucca (19:49):
Sure.
Yeah.
Because people, people need housingand food and medical care and all,
you know, that doesn't, in fact,much of that when it comes to medical
care and things like that, thatincreases during the wintertime.
Yes,
Mark (20:01):
it does.
It does.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, but we just enjoy doing all of ourtraditions and having time to, as you
say, just kind of be in the moment ofthe season enjoying our circumstances
and enjoying We, we still have a fewtrees that have beautiful leaves on them.
(20:23):
Most of them are bare by now, but someof the very late changing ones are just
kind of coming into their colors now.
Mm-hmm.
, And we've had a few rainstormscome through, which are always a
delight to hear on the roof andgo out and feel on your skin.
Watching the sky a lot.
Mars and Jupiter havebeen brilliant recently.
Wow.
(20:44):
Yeah.
And,
Yucca (20:44):
So many meteors
Mark (20:45):
too.
Yes.
Yeah.
I, I heard that therewere a lot of geminis.
I, I didn't go look for them, but I heardthat they, there were a lot of meteors.
Yeah,
Yucca (20:55):
we spotted a couple, but it gets down into the single digits
or the teens at night for us here.
And Uhhuh, then Fahrenheit, so.
We, we limit the amount of outsidetime at, in the early morning
? Mark: I would think so.
Yeah.
I mean, our our low temperatureshave been mid twenties.
(21:16):
Mm-hmm.
. So not, not too bad.
Bad for the plants outside, butnot so bad for for but not, not
nearly as bad as single digits.
Yeah.
So, and it's also because thereis that sort of generalized.
Cultural agreement that we're allgoing to do this together now.
(21:39):
Mm-hmm.
, what in, in whatever flavor that mighthappen to be, there are a lot more
opportunities to see friends and so forth.
I was mentioning before we recordedI have six Yu gatherings this year.
We did quite a few Saturday.
We did the Saturday Zoom mixer,Yule ritual this morning.
I'm going to meet with myritual circle this evening.
(22:02):
Then tomorrow the Northern Californiaatheopagan Affinity Group meets.
And then after that I'm going to The,the gathering of the Spark Collective,
which is a ritual collective that Iused to work with a lot in the East Bay
east Bay area, San Francisco region,and then on Wednesday, The Solstice,
(22:24):
the local Unitarian, the solsticeitself, the local Unitarian Covenant
of Unitarian Universalist Pagans group.
is doing a winter solstice as well, thatI have a roll in and then I'll come home
and naia and I will build a Yu log andburn it and do a bunch of our things.
So, Six distinct celebrations andI'm, I think I'll feel thoroughly
(22:50):
ued by the time it's all over.
Yeah, that is, that's quite a lot.
So, Hmm.
And we were just talking about theactual time of the solstice itself.
So in, I'm in Mountain, soon Wednesday, that's 2 47.
(23:10):
So for Pacific for you, that's 1 47.
47.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we like to set the, inour house, we set the alarm.
And it's nice when it happensin the middle of the day.
And when it goes off, then we'llall cheer because sometimes it does
not happen in the middle of the day.
Sometimes it happens at three in themorning and you gotta wake everyone
up to go, whoa, , and go back tosleep . But that's a fun thing to
(23:33):
do, especially if you've got, ifyou've got kiddos, but I think kids
of any age, sure, then enjoy that.
Mark (23:39):
Absolutely.
I think if I were going to do that andit turned out to be three o'clock in the
morning or something, I think I would recombine that with the midnight Margaritas
tradition from Practical Magic and dothat as well, which is a lot of fun.
So, mm-hmm.
So where are we?
What, what else have wegot to talk about here?
Yucca (24:01):
Well, it's always nice to talk about some suggested ri
suggested, ah, that's a hard one.
Suggested rituals and you know, kindof little traditions that people can
try or share things that we do and seewhat kind of sparks people's imagin.
Mark (24:19):
Yeah.
Okay.
Sure.
Well, I am very fondof the eLog tradition.
I, I think for one thing,I think it's very old.
Mm-hmm.
. I think the idea of decorating aspecial log and throwing it onto
a bonfire at this time of year isprobably something that people have
been doing for many, many centuries.
(24:40):
. If you don't have a fire pit that youcan burn something outdoors in, or a
fireplace indoors or a wood stove, you candrill holes in the top of the log and put
candles in instead, and let those tapersburn down as a part of your tradition.
Mm-hmm.
. But I really like to use thebottom part of last Year's Yu Tree.
(25:05):
Oh.
And.
and I saved that for all year.
Mm-hmm.
. And then we bind it to a pieceof split Oakwood so that it's
big enough because the, the yieldtrees are only about three inches.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
. So we used Twine to, to bind thatto a, a piece of, you know, a third
(25:25):
or a quarter of a log and then.
Evergreen branches and hollybranches and pirate kaha with all
the berries and missile toe andall those kinds of things into the,
the twine to decorate the, the log.
All with natural stuff that will burn.
(25:46):
Mm-hmm.
. So nothing plastic.
and then we write our, our hopes for thecoming year on little notes and tuck them
underneath the evergreens and so forth.
Mm-hmm.
. And then we take it out to burn mm-hmm.
and let those wishes goskyward to wherever they will.
(26:09):
And it just feels like, it feelslike setting something in motion.
Mm-hmm.
, which is.
. Just a really lovely feeling, I think.
Yucca (26:22):
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Yeah.
I've seen some just beautifulU logs that people have done.
Mm-hmm.
, it's just a mm-hmm.
. That's not something that we'vedone very much, but it's, it's
something that we're interested in.
Right.
, Mark: well, you certainly have the circumstances for it.
I mean, you, you, you use firewood foryour, for your ordinary fuel, and you've
(26:47):
got a fire pit outside and mm-hmm.
, you know, all that.
Or you could burn it in your hearth if.
Do you have a wood stove or
is it fire?
We, we have a wood stove.
But it's got a, a glass frontto it so we can Oh, we can see.
I like seeing the fire, so everyday I clean the sit off of it so
that we can see the fire in it.
Oh, . So it'd be lovely.
Yeah.
And we do have the, thepit outside, so, yeah.
(27:08):
And all of the firewood stuffis a big part of this, this
year, this time of year for us.
Right.
The kids, I'm sure.
That was something that getting readyfor the year that we had them do
is make the little Kindle bundles.
Oh.
So as we were getting into fall and, andthey're, they're so little right now.
There's not really a lot of thingsthat they can do yet to really be uh,
(27:28):
Significant contribu contributors tothe, like, happenings of a house, right?
They're four and six.
Sure.
But they're, they were great at tyingthese little bundles of sticks together.
And every day when we use one ofthose little bundles because we
also have a greenhouse that heatsthe house, so we don't have to
have the fire going constantly.
So we do have, but we'll,we'll run it usually at night.
(27:50):
So we start the fire up and we'lluse the little bundle of sticks.
They, their Kindle bundle and theyget to go, oh, here's the, the
bundle that I made, and, and theyget to, you know, help light that up.
Mark (28:01):
That's great.
That's great.
Yeah.
I mean, engaging, engaging childrenin, in the industry of the house.
I think is a really wonderful thing.
I, I mean, so long as it doesn'tturn into an endless list of
chores that are just drudgery and,you know, sort of child labor.
(28:23):
Mm-hmm.
, Yucca: Yeah, we don't want like Cinderella type of scenario.
. Yeah.
. Mark: But you know, giving them an opportunity to feel like participants
in all the stuff that makes the housego, I think is just a really wonderful.
Yeah.
Yucca (28:38):
Well, I think that's really important for, you know, just our sense
of, of belonging and port and importance.
And I think that that's somethingthat we can extend to when we're
talking about the holidays, right?
Is that everybody get to havesomething that they feel that
isn't too stressful, right?
Because sometimes people don'tneed more on their plates if they
already have a lot to be doing.
(28:58):
But something that is importantthat doesn't just feel.
That they get to be part of that, that,that they're responsible for and that,
you know, they bring this to the table Ithink is something lovely to do with them.
Yeah.
With anyone.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So one thing , you werejust talking about the eLog.
(29:18):
One thing that we do is we makea lot of sew it for the animals.
Oh.
And we have little silicone molds,which are they look like little
trees . And, you know, you can, youcan find recipes online for Sue it, but
it, it's really not that, that hard.
Right.
You.
(29:39):
You know, we use lard or tall andyou get your fat and then you mix in
your seeds and your berries mm-hmm.
and all of that.
But we'll make these little ones that,you know, they're a few inches across.
Mm-hmm.
, and then we'll hang the twine from it.
And we had tried puttingornaments in our trees.
Before, but the birds just sothey attacked the ornaments
and it didn't work out.
Oh no.
(29:59):
So now we're making them thelittle seit blocks and hanging it
up in the tree as our decoration,like our outdoor, that's tree.
Mark (30:09):
That's great.
Yeah, I could see they actually useMylar tinsel in the vineyards here
to help keep birds away becauseapparently they don't like it.
Little flashes of light.
They, they, they don't likethe little flashes of light.
So I can understand why theywere attacking the ornaments.
Get that thing
Yucca (30:27):
outta here, . Yeah.
Well, and, and we have a lot of bird.
We're a little like a bird oasis here,but it was the J's in particular,
they were like knocking them down andcould see they didn't like 'em at all.
So, uh, and I didn't want to put anythinglike tinsel out cuz I was, I was worried
they might try and take that and use itfor testing or eat it or choke on it.
Right?
Yeah.
Wanna make sure that there's nothingthat would be dangerous to them.
(30:48):
. Right.
And then I don't want the, those littlepieces getting in the wind and mm-hmm.
Getting, messing all over the place.
So I think whatever our celebrationsare, it's important that we're
being respectful and responsibleto, to all the other life around us.
Of course.
Yeah.
And that's another thing we try anddo is, is not by a bunch of junk that
(31:11):
is just gonna get thrown out, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
, . So, so making little things for the gifts,you know, making little clay things and
smell this time of year, I think smellany time of year, but I really associate.
Some of the smells of like the Cinnamonsand like frankincense is another.
The cloves.
(31:32):
Yeah.
All of those are just so wonderful.
And the pine, we'll take we'llactually go and take needles
cause we have a lot of, of pinon.
Pine is the main tree that we've got here.
It's like this little pygmy pine andwe'll bring in the, the needles from
it and sometimes the sap and you put,put that in boiling water on the stove.
And you could do this with your,with your kitchen, you know, your
(31:53):
electric or or gas stove as well.
It doesn't have to be a wood stove.
And that just Fills thehouse with that smell.
You can put other things in as well.
If you have a little bit of cinnamonfrom the kitchen or your clothes, any
of those, like pumpkin spice ones, thoseare gonna work really well in, in that.
Yeah.
Mark (32:10):
Nice.
Very nice.
Yeah.
What was I going to say?
There was something thatwent along with that.
Yucca (32:17):
Was it smells
Mark (32:19):
or were we back on the birds?
No, it, it was back on the birds.
Yeah.
We, we have a lot of takers for ourbird feeders at this time of year too.
Mm-hmm.
, the, the birds that don't migrate.
It's it's not nearly as sparse hereas it is where you are, I'm sure.
Mm-hmm.
, but still we get a lot ofcustomers this time of year.
Yeah.
We have a regular feeder that we putsunflower seeds in and then we have No.
(32:43):
Is it sunflower seeds?
Yes.
It's sunflower seed pieces.
Mm-hmm.
. And then we have a hummingbird feederas well that we put sugar water in.
Yucca (32:51):
Oh, so you still get hummingbirds this time of year?
Mark (32:54):
We do.
Yeah.
We have hummingbirdshere that don't migrate.
Oh, wow.
Because it's, it's mild enough that theycan, they can take it through the winter.
So
Yucca (33:04):
yeah.
Ours are all in Costa r already.
Uhhuh
, Mark: they're, they're long gone.
We have, we have pretty largepopulations of Canada geese
here that don't migrate either.
They just hang out.
Annoy everybody and eatamphibians and do what they do.
, Yucca: I love birds.
(33:26):
Me too, so much.
They, they, they give usso much in entertainment.
. Mark: Yes.
That's
very true.
Yeah.
We have birds and, and we've gotchipmunks that live around here.
And on the warmer days, I thinkthe chipmunks, they don't do
like a full hibernation here.
They, they kind of wake up andcome out in the warm days and,
(33:48):
and they have like little warswith the, the birds around here.
They'll chase each other backand forth and fight over who gets
what, you know, what seeds and Oh.
And we will also, we havewe'll sprout some seeds for.
Our animals too.
A lot of bird seeded.
You can just take it and the same wayyou would sprout, you know, anything
else that you would in the kitchen.
You just mm-hmm.
(34:08):
, soak it in the water and changethe water out every few days.
Or you could put it in a little bit ofsoil and we'd take that out and give
them a little bit of green in the winter.
Um hmm.
And so now we've got, that's.
We've got a whole varietyof folks who come to visit,
Mark (34:24):
so probably gives them more sugar too.
Once, once the, once the plants germinate,they start generating more sugar,
whereas the, the seed is largely fat.
Yucca (34:35):
Yeah.
You know, it's definitely gonnachange what the composition is.
We'll, we'll do a mix, so not justthe sunflower, but like the millet
and the all kinds of things for them.
Yeah, we like, we, we spoil our birds.
, , so
Mark (34:49):
I'm sure they appreciate it.
Yucca (34:51):
Oh yeah.
But water is actuallythe most important one.
Oh, I understand.
Depending on where you live, where welive, water is, is not easy to get.
This time of year it might be a littlebit different where you are, you're
in a wetter, I mean, you're justcoming out of your dry season though.
But, but giving them fresh water,that's really the tricky fine
thing to find this time of year.
So that's another one of the kids' jobsis they go out with the you know, we clean
(35:12):
out the bowl every day so that we're notletting any, we're not spreading any.
Diseases between the animals.
So they go out and change the, theybring out a new fresh bowl of water,
and then they take in the old one.
We wash it up and get it readyto take out for the next day.
So that's something thatthey can do as well.
Mark (35:28):
Wow, that's great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's, it's a simplya lovely time of year.
Mm-hmm.
, I, I really enjoy the,the, the yule season.
The many, many Solstice traditionsthat have grown up around it.
(35:49):
And of course, we've only scratchedthe surface of all those traditions,
you know, throughout the world thatpeople have celebrated as a part of
observing this important moment whenthe days start to get longer again.
And there is some prospect thateventually there will be more food.
. Yes.
Uh uh and.
(36:13):
I don't know.
In, in a way it sounds when, when youcompare this sort of romantic dramatic
story that Christianity has aboutChristmas and the meaning of the birth
of Jesus and all that kind of stuff, the,the idea of describing this holiday as one
that's basically about the food supply.
(36:34):
Mm-hmm.
sounds a, it sounds a little.
A little dull by comparison, but alittle underwhelming, to be honest.
Yeah.
But realistically speaking,that's what's going on.
We're, we're organismsand we, we like to eat.
We don't do well when we don't, andthis is the cycle that we're born into.
(36:55):
So, I think it's a, a wonderfulthing to reflect on years past and
the conditions that people managedto survive through, um mm-hmm.
in order to bring us here.
Yucca (37:07):
Right.
Yeah.
And, you know, that's, that's what ourgreat, great, great grandchildren are.
You know, it's just gonnakeep, hopefully keep going.
So
Mark (37:18):
hopefully, yeah.
Yeah.
Yucca (37:22):
and it's, it's lovely to think about that connection to all the other
humans that have been, right, right.
That have gone through something similar.
I mean, when you're at the equator,it's a little bit different, um mm-hmm.
, but the higher and higher your latitudeis, whichever way you're going.
The more, the more and more noticeable,the bigger and bigger a deal the solstice
Mark (37:44):
becomes, Yes, I was watching a YouTube video yesterday by a woman
who lives in the north of Sweden andwinter winter's intense up there.
Yeah.
I mean, there's very little light andshe, at one point she put a chair outside
(38:05):
and sat in the sun and she said, you.
. You know that feeling when you'revery thirsty and that first
sip of water hits your mouth.
Mm-hmm.
, that's what it's like when the sunhits my skin at this time of year.
Mm-hmm.
It's.
You know, you, your body is justso starved for, for the sunlight.
(38:29):
Yeah.
And of course she takes vitaminD supplements and all that kind
of stuff, which they do as well.
But there's nothing quite like sunlight.
We're, we're built to like it.
Yucca (38:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was actually just talking with oneof my students earlier today who's
from a same part of the world, andhe was saying that that day, is
four and a half hours long for themwhen they get to the winter solstice.
It's about nine and a halffor us, which feels short.
Mm-hmm.
. Mm-hmm.
, but four and a half hour day once.
Wow.
Mark (38:58):
Yeah, it's about nine where I am.
I'm, I'm considerablynorth of where you are.
Yucca (39:03):
Yeah.
I'm just about 36,
Mark (39:07):
so yeah, I think I'm, I think we're at 42.
You're that
Yucca (39:11):
far north?
I think so.
Oh,
Mark (39:13):
okay.
, maybe 40.2.
I don't know.
I haven't looked somewherethat, yeah, . Yeah, somewhere.
Somewhere in there.
So, yeah.
And my hope for all of our listenersis that you have meaningful observances
if that, if that's what you want.
And if not, that youhave a good long break.
Mm-hmm.
, and a, a relaxing and restorativetime because I do think that this
(39:38):
can be a restorative time if we don'tdrive ourselves crazy with busyness.
Yucca (39:43):
Right.
If you have cats, make sure to getsome cat snuggles in Oh, time of year
Mark (39:48):
for that.
. Yes.
My cat is sleeping just over there,just like four feet away from me.
Mine's
Yucca (39:57):
on top of my keys.
left the keys on the table.
He's right on top of them.
So
. Mark: So listen everyone, we have really enjoyed spending the last
it's, I mean, we're coming up onthree years now of doing this.
And thank you for taking thisjourney with us around the course
(40:19):
of the Wheel of the Year for 2022.
It's been, it's really been a great cycleand we've had wonderful comments and
feedback and input from listeners andwe're really looking forward to doing more
of this coming up, starting next week.
That's right.
So happy solstice.
Mark (40:40):
Happy Solstice.
Welcome back to the Wonder Science-Based Paganism.
I'm your host, mark, andI'm the other one, Yucca.
And today we are talking about all thingsrelated to the winter solstice and youe.
Happy Yule, everyone, orwhatever you choose to
Yucca (00:47):
call it.
Yep.
Happy solstice.
It's it's amazing that we're here already.
I think we say that about every holiday.
Really?
Yeah.
But we,
Mark (00:58):
we do, we just can't believe we're getting older.
Is is what's happening here?
Yucca (01:03):
Yeah.
Well, December thing seems like it juststarted and yet here we are already.
So, yeah.
But speaking of that, this is somethingthat we've been doing for a really long.
I think that's a good segue intoour first section here is let's talk
about what this holiday is becauseit's based on something very real.
(01:24):
This isn't just a day that we randomlyassigned some random meaning to.
It's something that humans.
all over the world have beenobserving as far as we can tell, for
thousands and thousands of years.
Yes.
Mark (01:38):
Yes.
The, I, I just learned of a newNew to me, archeological find in
the wheelchair plane, which iswhere Stonehenge is and so forth.
There was apparently a gold platefound with a a v incised on it, a large
v, and the V is exactly 82 degrees.
(01:59):
The angle is 82 degrees, which is thedifference between the summer solstice
and the winter solstice on the.
Hmm.
So apparently this plate was.
used as kind of a portable observatoryin a way where you could shoot
the sun on the summer solsticeand say, okay, well it's gonna be
(02:22):
over there on the winter solstice.
I mean, for all we know, it mighthave been an engineering tool used
to help build stone head . Yeah.
Because Stonehenge lines up perfectlywith the winter solstice, right?
With the sun rising on the winter
Yucca (02:36):
solstice.
Right.
And that, that kind of structure,something that we see again all over
the world, we see that in the Americasand in Eurasia and, and really all over.
That's right.
And sometimes it's the wintersolta, sometimes it's the summer.
But it's the same ideas that wehave been paying attention to.
(03:00):
What the, the relationship betweenwhere the sun is in our sky or the it's
apparent position and what that means tothe rest of the ecosystem that we're in.
It'd be very important to.
Mark (03:17):
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
I mean, we were talking aboutthis before we recorded.
I mean, in the, in the case of thewintertime where food is becoming very
scarce, not only that, but there arefewer hours in the day to go look for it.
Mm-hmm.
so.
You know, noticing when the hourswere going to start to get longer
again would be a really bigdeal in terms of your survival.
(03:39):
As we get later into history, we seethat this is the time when all of the,
the harvest that had not been preservedin some way by pickling or drying or
smoking or salting or, you know, whatever.
Had to be eaten because thingswere starting to go bad.
(04:01):
Mm-hmm.
. And we need to get all those caloriesinto ourselves so that we can survive
the lean months coming up beforeeggs start to become available.
And some of the earliest greens startcoming up and the lambs start being
born and all that kind of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
, right?
(04:22):
Yeah.
. So it's a time That is it.
It has kind of an internalparadox in it, right?
It's the time to have abig party and eat a lot.
So it's a time to get together,celebrate with our loved ones, share
food, share, drink, share companyin, and sort of keep that light alive
(04:49):
through the darkest time of the year.
But it's also confronting the factthat things are gonna get tough.
coming up in the next few months.
These, these are notgonna be a lot of fun.
So this is sort of thelast hurrah in a way.
Mm-hmm.
, before we get to some very, you know,before the advent of modern supply
(05:13):
chains and agriculture, these weretimes when things, things can get pretty
Yucca (05:19):
dicey.
Yeah.
It's what you've been preparing for all.
. Right.
Really?
Yeah.
Right.
This is what you've beencutting the wood for all year.
Mm-hmm.
, this is what you've beenraising the food for.
This is, this is it, right?
Yeah.
To
Mark (05:32):
get through this gap Yeah.
Of the next couple of months, nextthree months, you know, depending
on where you are, maybe even longer.
Mm-hmm.
, that.
Where the natural world is not going toproduce easily available food for you.
Mm-hmm.
. And you've gotta rely on your stores.
And I mean, that's an inherentlyanxiety producing phenomenon, right?
(05:55):
Watching your stores get lower and lowerand lower every day as you eat to survive.
And trying to kind ofeyeball, well, are we gonna.
are we gonna make it to the seasonwhen the birds are laying eggs and
we can start to get some calories?
Yucca (06:09):
Right?
So it has that, all of that around it.
And I think there's also abit of in a celebration of
the darkness as well, right?
Yes.
There's a celebration of the lightin the darkness, but also that.
Quiet darkness.
This is, we haven't done anepisode on the dark in a few years.
We did a few years back.
(06:30):
I think that might beone we should revisit.
That's true in the next couple monthswhile we are still in this dark period.
And the, in the importance ofthat quietness and that time of
reflection and that time of thewaiting and the rest, that really
comes with the dark of the year.
Right.
And that's the.
(06:51):
The time around the solstice is quiteliterally the darkest time of the
year if you aren't lighting it upwith, with artificial lights, right?
Mm-hmm.
. Mark: Yeah.
And when you think about it in kindof grand cosmological terms The
darkness is the source that thelight kind of blooms out of, right?
(07:12):
Mm-hmm.
, I mean, we start, we, we start with anincredible burst of explosive light,
but very quickly everything cools offand we have this sea of undifferentiated
particles at first, but as stars beginto kindle, light begins to come back
into that darkness, and so it becomes,, it becomes a, a powerful metaphor
(07:36):
for how things are born in darkness.
Mm-hmm.
and, and then evolve intothe the waking world.
The daylight world, yeah.
Hmm.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout how, what, what that means
(07:57):
to us personally as pagans.
What is that in our practice?
Mark (08:03):
Sure.
Would you like to go first?
Yucca (08:06):
Sure.
So we use the framework ofthe wheel of the year in our
household and the winter solstice.
This is the time where we're, we'rethinking about those things that
we've just been talking about.
But we also, this is whenwe're honoring the forests as.
So there's a lot of, of imagery forus and smells and things like that
(08:30):
that have to do with the forest,especially the evergreen forest.
And this also happens smackin the middle of just.
So many holidays, , there are just so manyholidays this week that we're going into.
I don't know how my kids are gonnamake it through all the holidays
because we have the solsticehappening right in the middle.
(08:50):
The Hanukkah starts . Sowe're recording this Saturday.
So Sunday night, Hanukkah starts.
So they'll do that on myside with their softa.
They'll do Christmas with theirgrandmother on the other side.
And it's just this, this, all of thisactivity and bustling and just the
celebration and the, you don't have
Mark (09:07):
an aluminum pole for celebrating Festivus.
Yucca (09:10):
You know, we don't, but I think that if I suggested that to my
partner that it would show up , I'mpretty sure it would, we would have it.
But the, the solstice itself inthe middle of all of that is a if.
, we, we do secular Christmas andsolstice is separate for us.
Mm-hmm.
than that is.
(09:31):
Although on the other side of theyear we do do presents with summer
solstice as well, but the, thepresents are, are Christmas presents.
But the, the solstice is moreof a moment of reflection.
Right.
It's a, we'll wake up and watch thesunrise and watch the sunset and be.
And spend a little bit of time going out.
(09:52):
We'll run out if there's snow, we'llrun outside barefoot in our little
barefoot feet and come back in andsit in front of the fire and, and
have that kind of reflective momentthat you were talking about earlier.
That that reflection that, thatcomes along with this time of year
that I think is something that isn'treally emphasized in the secular.
(10:14):
Approach to this time of year.
Mark (10:17):
So, yeah, I agree.
I agree.
I, sorry to interrupt you.
Oh no.
Please, please jump
Yucca (10:22):
in.
Yeah.
Mark (10:22):
I mean, obviously the commercialization of the
holidays has meant that.
it's become very much around stuff andaccumulation of stuff, purchasing of
stuff, distribution of stuff as well aslots of, you know, rich food and drink.
Mm-hmm.
, , and that seems to be MO and family,certainly family is a theme.
(10:45):
Mm-hmm.
, you know, for, you know, people gatheringtogether, at least in the ideal mm-hmm.
Conceptualization.
But it is true that the whole.
I'll, I'll come at thisa little bit sideways.
I'm, I'm an, I'm a singer and I'm, I'vedone a lot of singing of early music,
medieval and renaissance music, anda great deal of what that, what the
(11:08):
liturgical music of that period is about.
And of course, it's all Christian.
Mm-hmm.
, but it's this, it's this contemplationof the great mystery, right.
The.
The incredible thing thathappened that, you know, where
God made Mary pregnant mm-hmm.
and, and it's a contemplative thing.
(11:28):
It's a, it's, you know, sort of tryingto grasp the mind of God in a way.
Mm-hmm.
, I think we, pagans havesomething very similar.
We, we naturalistic non-theisticpagans since we're not thinking
about gods at this time.
Right.
Yucca (11:45):
If some, some people do have this as the birth of of whoever
their God is that, you know.
Right.
That is part of some pagan paths.
Yeah.
Yes.
Mark (11:55):
But I do think that in our tradition, This is the time of year
when the natural world comes asclose as it ever does to stopping.
because of the cold temperatures,everything slows way, way down.
(12:15):
And what is implicit or potentialfor the coming cycle is only
just starting to be conceived.
Mm-hmm.
And that's something that we can, canmeditate on as naturalistic pagans.
As atheopagan, becausewe can focus on what.
(12:37):
Imagining for the coming cycle, whatwe're aspiring to in the coming year?
For many of us, this is the wintersolstice is the beginning of the new year.
Mm-hmm.
, that's how I consider it.
And so in many ways it's thissort of birth moment and at births
(12:58):
we, we have a lot of dreams.
for, for our children.
We have a, a lot of thingsthat we hope for for them.
We wish them the best and wehave pictures in our minds about
what that might work out to be.
And I think that that can be true ofthe coming cycle of the year as well.
Mm-hmm.
(13:19):
? Yeah.
So.
. But you were talking about celebratingthe forests and the evergreens
particularly and the millions of holidays.
Yucca (13:29):
Yes.
So, so
Mark (13:30):
many, so, mm-hmm.
. So at, at a deeper level, what,what does this, what does this
holiday mean to you, Yucca?
What does it, what does it encourageyou to do in your practice?
Yucca (13:43):
This really is, this is a time.
of reflection and being and I know youwere just talking about the dreaming
portion, but for me, that comes a, thatcomes a little bit later in winter.
Oh, this is more of a,just being in the now.
Here we are.
I'm not, I'm not gettingready for anything now.
(14:03):
Right.
Got ready for the winter.
The winter is here.
The wood is stacked.
The, the, our water tanks are full.
The our pantry's full andnow, and in my work cycle too.
You know, I just taught mylast class for the semester.
I'm not teaching well for, I dohave some international classes,
(14:24):
but I'm not teaching any of the,the North American kids until
we're back in the, the new Year.
Right.
So it's like, uh, no, I just get to be,just to hang out, to be, to exist, to kind
of look at what, where, where I am rightnow, really just take stock, not in a.
(14:46):
Planning for the future,because that will come, right?
Yes.
But how, but I can't really planfor the future until I'm very
clear with where am I at right now?
And that's just what's mm-hmm.
like on emotional level.
And of course there's the practical tooof, you know, don't, don't go to the
grocery store without checking what'sin your fridge first, you know, . So,
(15:09):
but, so that's on a, but take that and.
To for life.
But this is like on an emotional level.
So that's emotionally what we're doing.
But that theme also, you'retalking about a family and just,
just enjoying life right now.
You know, it's really about that.
Just enjoying, and here we areand you know, this is what we
Mark (15:33):
got.
That's, that's great.
And, and as you mentioned it,it's, you know, I, I, I feel, I
guess that I do a lot of the same.
I mean, it's a time to enjoy the prettylights and the holiday traditions and.
not particularly to do work.
Mm-hmm.
or or even much planning for the future.
(15:55):
When I, when I talk aboutdreaming and imagination, it,
that's a very pre-planning Yes.
Sort of state.
It's just really sort of blue skying.
Kind of what, what can weimagine possibly happening over
the course of the next year?
Yucca (16:13):
Right.
think of it kind of like still beingunder the blankets in the early morning.
Mm-hmm.
, right?
Where you haven't really startedto make your list of, okay, what do
I actually have to do for the day?
But you're kind of in thatlike, oh, here I am, I'm okay.
I'm awake when I'm in the soft blankets.
Just thinking about everything.
Dreaming about everything.
Huh.
Mark (16:32):
Yes.
Warm and comfortable, which is somuch a, an aspect of of what this
holiday is supposed to be about.
Mm-hmm.
, , know, so many of the rituals thatwe do for Yule or mid-winter or,
you know, whatever you call it, thewinter solstice, have to do with
experiencing cold and darkness.
(16:53):
Mm-hmm.
for a while, just to really kind ofrub it in, make sure that we Yeah.
That we know, you know, what's reallygoing on out there and just how harsh and
and bleak, it can really be out there.
And then bringing that light back intothe home, back into where it's warm and
sheltered and the wind doesn't get to you,and the precipitation doesn't fall on you.
(17:17):
And coming back intowarmth and comfort again.
Mm-hmm.
. Yucca: Yeah.
Hmm.
So what are, what is it for you?
. Mark: Well, let me see.
To start with yes, there certainlyis a flurry of holidays and we do
have an aluminum pole on the 23rd.
On the 23rd, we erect the aluminumpole and air our grievances in,
(17:40):
in the time honored traditionof the Seinfeld Festivus.
Mm-hmm.
. It's just so funny and we happento have this old floor lamp with.
Upright, that's a pole, so we justcouldn't resist doing it every year.
. But we do a lot of the, the sortof Christmasy yule traditions,
(18:00):
like a yule tree and eatingwell and Let me correct that.
Eating, eating richly heavily.
Yeah.
Heavily.
Yeah.
Richly not necessarily.
Well, although ne mayo's pretty goodabout making me eat my vegetables.
. The, but the time of year,there's a, there's a.
(18:22):
It's ironic because for many peoplethis is a very stressful time of
year and they feel the tremendouspressure to buy things for everyone
and to deal with the financial stressof that and to do all those things.
We don't do gifts.
. We would, if we had children inour lives, we would give them to
children because it's really unfairto ask them to watch all of their
(18:46):
peers getting gifts at this time ofyear and not getting any themselves.
That would just be cruel.
Right.
Yucca (18:51):
Oh, and especially if, if the, the peers are doing the Santa thing where
like, it's a magical, it's a magical beingwho's bringing you these gifts, you know?
And, and you know why I Marcos nextdoor, get a, you know, this, the.
PS five or whatever they're on.
I don't know what they're on now.
Right.
Why do they get that?
You know, and, and you know, this magicalbeing can't even bring me anything.
(19:16):
Yeah.
Or, you know, he brings me socks.
Although socks are fantastic.
We're big sock
Mark (19:21):
fans here.
Yeah.
Boy, I, I love socks.
. So, so because we don't dogifts, we're not really under
those kinds of pressures and.
Work stuff fades away because the whole.
Commercial world other than retail,kind of takes a breath around this time.
Mm-hmm.
. Although that's certainly nottrue for many of the nonprofits
(19:43):
that I've worked for, which arecranking out services like crazy for
people who desperately need them.
Yucca (19:49):
Sure.
Yeah.
Because people, people need housingand food and medical care and all,
you know, that doesn't, in fact,much of that when it comes to medical
care and things like that, thatincreases during the wintertime.
Yes,
Mark (20:01):
it does.
It does.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, but we just enjoy doing all of ourtraditions and having time to, as you
say, just kind of be in the moment ofthe season enjoying our circumstances
and enjoying We, we still have a fewtrees that have beautiful leaves on them.
(20:23):
Most of them are bare by now, but someof the very late changing ones are just
kind of coming into their colors now.
Mm-hmm.
, And we've had a few rainstormscome through, which are always a
delight to hear on the roof andgo out and feel on your skin.
Watching the sky a lot.
Mars and Jupiter havebeen brilliant recently.
Wow.
(20:44):
Yeah.
And,
Yucca (20:44):
So many meteors
Mark (20:45):
too.
Yes.
Yeah.
I, I heard that therewere a lot of geminis.
I, I didn't go look for them, but I heardthat they, there were a lot of meteors.
Yeah,
Yucca (20:55):
we spotted a couple, but it gets down into the single digits
or the teens at night for us here.
And Uhhuh, then Fahrenheit, so.
We, we limit the amount of outsidetime at, in the early morning
? Mark: I would think so.
Yeah.
I mean, our our low temperatureshave been mid twenties.
(21:16):
Mm-hmm.
. So not, not too bad.
Bad for the plants outside, butnot so bad for for but not, not
nearly as bad as single digits.
Yeah.
So, and it's also because thereis that sort of generalized.
Cultural agreement that we're allgoing to do this together now.
(21:39):
Mm-hmm.
, what in, in whatever flavor that mighthappen to be, there are a lot more
opportunities to see friends and so forth.
I was mentioning before we recordedI have six Yu gatherings this year.
We did quite a few Saturday.
We did the Saturday Zoom mixer,Yule ritual this morning.
I'm going to meet with myritual circle this evening.
(22:02):
Then tomorrow the Northern Californiaatheopagan Affinity Group meets.
And then after that I'm going to The,the gathering of the Spark Collective,
which is a ritual collective that Iused to work with a lot in the East Bay
east Bay area, San Francisco region,and then on Wednesday, The Solstice,
(22:24):
the local Unitarian, the solsticeitself, the local Unitarian Covenant
of Unitarian Universalist Pagans group.
is doing a winter solstice as well, thatI have a roll in and then I'll come home
and naia and I will build a Yu log andburn it and do a bunch of our things.
So, Six distinct celebrations andI'm, I think I'll feel thoroughly
(22:50):
ued by the time it's all over.
Yeah, that is, that's quite a lot.
So, Hmm.
And we were just talking about theactual time of the solstice itself.
So in, I'm in Mountain, soon Wednesday, that's 2 47.
(23:10):
So for Pacific for you, that's 1 47.
47.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we like to set the, inour house, we set the alarm.
And it's nice when it happensin the middle of the day.
And when it goes off, then we'llall cheer because sometimes it does
not happen in the middle of the day.
Sometimes it happens at three in themorning and you gotta wake everyone
up to go, whoa, , and go back tosleep . But that's a fun thing to
(23:33):
do, especially if you've got, ifyou've got kiddos, but I think kids
of any age, sure, then enjoy that.
Mark (23:39):
Absolutely.
I think if I were going to do that andit turned out to be three o'clock in the
morning or something, I think I would recombine that with the midnight Margaritas
tradition from Practical Magic and dothat as well, which is a lot of fun.
So, mm-hmm.
So where are we?
What, what else have wegot to talk about here?
Yucca (24:01):
Well, it's always nice to talk about some suggested ri
suggested, ah, that's a hard one.
Suggested rituals and you know, kindof little traditions that people can
try or share things that we do and seewhat kind of sparks people's imagin.
Mark (24:19):
Yeah.
Okay.
Sure.
Well, I am very fondof the eLog tradition.
I, I think for one thing,I think it's very old.
Mm-hmm.
. I think the idea of decorating aspecial log and throwing it onto
a bonfire at this time of year isprobably something that people have
been doing for many, many centuries.
(24:40):
. If you don't have a fire pit that youcan burn something outdoors in, or a
fireplace indoors or a wood stove, you candrill holes in the top of the log and put
candles in instead, and let those tapersburn down as a part of your tradition.
Mm-hmm.
. But I really like to use thebottom part of last Year's Yu Tree.
(25:05):
Oh.
And.
and I saved that for all year.
Mm-hmm.
. And then we bind it to a pieceof split Oakwood so that it's
big enough because the, the yieldtrees are only about three inches.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
. So we used Twine to, to bind thatto a, a piece of, you know, a third
(25:25):
or a quarter of a log and then.
Evergreen branches and hollybranches and pirate kaha with all
the berries and missile toe andall those kinds of things into the,
the twine to decorate the, the log.
All with natural stuff that will burn.
(25:46):
Mm-hmm.
. So nothing plastic.
and then we write our, our hopes for thecoming year on little notes and tuck them
underneath the evergreens and so forth.
Mm-hmm.
. And then we take it out to burn mm-hmm.
and let those wishes goskyward to wherever they will.
(26:09):
And it just feels like, it feelslike setting something in motion.
Mm-hmm.
, which is.
. Just a really lovely feeling, I think.
Yucca (26:22):
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Yeah.
I've seen some just beautifulU logs that people have done.
Mm-hmm.
, it's just a mm-hmm.
. That's not something that we'vedone very much, but it's, it's
something that we're interested in.
Right.
, Mark: well, you certainly have the circumstances for it.
I mean, you, you, you use firewood foryour, for your ordinary fuel, and you've
(26:47):
got a fire pit outside and mm-hmm.
, you know, all that.
Or you could burn it in your hearth if.
Do you have a wood stove or
is it fire?
We, we have a wood stove.
But it's got a, a glass frontto it so we can Oh, we can see.
I like seeing the fire, so everyday I clean the sit off of it so
that we can see the fire in it.
Oh, . So it'd be lovely.
Yeah.
And we do have the, thepit outside, so, yeah.
(27:08):
And all of the firewood stuffis a big part of this, this
year, this time of year for us.
Right.
The kids, I'm sure.
That was something that getting readyfor the year that we had them do
is make the little Kindle bundles.
Oh.
So as we were getting into fall and, andthey're, they're so little right now.
There's not really a lot of thingsthat they can do yet to really be uh,
(27:28):
Significant contribu contributors tothe, like, happenings of a house, right?
They're four and six.
Sure.
But they're, they were great at tyingthese little bundles of sticks together.
And every day when we use one ofthose little bundles because we
also have a greenhouse that heatsthe house, so we don't have to
have the fire going constantly.
So we do have, but we'll,we'll run it usually at night.
(27:50):
So we start the fire up and we'lluse the little bundle of sticks.
They, their Kindle bundle and theyget to go, oh, here's the, the
bundle that I made, and, and theyget to, you know, help light that up.
Mark (28:01):
That's great.
That's great.
Yeah.
I mean, engaging, engaging childrenin, in the industry of the house.
I think is a really wonderful thing.
I, I mean, so long as it doesn'tturn into an endless list of
chores that are just drudgery and,you know, sort of child labor.
(28:23):
Mm-hmm.
, Yucca: Yeah, we don't want like Cinderella type of scenario.
. Yeah.
. Mark: But you know, giving them an opportunity to feel like participants
in all the stuff that makes the housego, I think is just a really wonderful.
Yeah.
Yucca (28:38):
Well, I think that's really important for, you know, just our sense
of, of belonging and port and importance.
And I think that that's somethingthat we can extend to when we're
talking about the holidays, right?
Is that everybody get to havesomething that they feel that
isn't too stressful, right?
Because sometimes people don'tneed more on their plates if they
already have a lot to be doing.
(28:58):
But something that is importantthat doesn't just feel.
That they get to be part of that, that,that they're responsible for and that,
you know, they bring this to the table Ithink is something lovely to do with them.
Yeah.
With anyone.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So one thing , you werejust talking about the eLog.
(29:18):
One thing that we do is we makea lot of sew it for the animals.
Oh.
And we have little silicone molds,which are they look like little
trees . And, you know, you can, youcan find recipes online for Sue it, but
it, it's really not that, that hard.
Right.
You.
(29:39):
You know, we use lard or tall andyou get your fat and then you mix in
your seeds and your berries mm-hmm.
and all of that.
But we'll make these little ones that,you know, they're a few inches across.
Mm-hmm.
, and then we'll hang the twine from it.
And we had tried puttingornaments in our trees.
Before, but the birds just sothey attacked the ornaments
and it didn't work out.
Oh no.
(29:59):
So now we're making them thelittle seit blocks and hanging it
up in the tree as our decoration,like our outdoor, that's tree.
Mark (30:09):
That's great.
Yeah, I could see they actually useMylar tinsel in the vineyards here
to help keep birds away becauseapparently they don't like it.
Little flashes of light.
They, they, they don't likethe little flashes of light.
So I can understand why theywere attacking the ornaments.
Get that thing
Yucca (30:27):
outta here, . Yeah.
Well, and, and we have a lot of bird.
We're a little like a bird oasis here,but it was the J's in particular,
they were like knocking them down andcould see they didn't like 'em at all.
So, uh, and I didn't want to put anythinglike tinsel out cuz I was, I was worried
they might try and take that and use itfor testing or eat it or choke on it.
Right?
Yeah.
Wanna make sure that there's nothingthat would be dangerous to them.
(30:48):
. Right.
And then I don't want the, those littlepieces getting in the wind and mm-hmm.
Getting, messing all over the place.
So I think whatever our celebrationsare, it's important that we're
being respectful and responsibleto, to all the other life around us.
Of course.
Yeah.
And that's another thing we try anddo is, is not by a bunch of junk that
(31:11):
is just gonna get thrown out, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
, . So, so making little things for the gifts,you know, making little clay things and
smell this time of year, I think smellany time of year, but I really associate.
Some of the smells of like the Cinnamonsand like frankincense is another.
The cloves.
(31:32):
Yeah.
All of those are just so wonderful.
And the pine, we'll take we'llactually go and take needles
cause we have a lot of, of pinon.
Pine is the main tree that we've got here.
It's like this little pygmy pine andwe'll bring in the, the needles from
it and sometimes the sap and you put,put that in boiling water on the stove.
And you could do this with your,with your kitchen, you know, your
(31:53):
electric or or gas stove as well.
It doesn't have to be a wood stove.
And that just Fills thehouse with that smell.
You can put other things in as well.
If you have a little bit of cinnamonfrom the kitchen or your clothes, any
of those, like pumpkin spice ones, thoseare gonna work really well in, in that.
Yeah.
Mark (32:10):
Nice.
Very nice.
Yeah.
What was I going to say?
There was something thatwent along with that.
Yucca (32:17):
Was it smells
Mark (32:19):
or were we back on the birds?
No, it, it was back on the birds.
Yeah.
We, we have a lot of takers for ourbird feeders at this time of year too.
Mm-hmm.
, the, the birds that don't migrate.
It's it's not nearly as sparse hereas it is where you are, I'm sure.
Mm-hmm.
, but still we get a lot ofcustomers this time of year.
Yeah.
We have a regular feeder that we putsunflower seeds in and then we have No.
(32:43):
Is it sunflower seeds?
Yes.
It's sunflower seed pieces.
Mm-hmm.
. And then we have a hummingbird feederas well that we put sugar water in.
Yucca (32:51):
Oh, so you still get hummingbirds this time of year?
Mark (32:54):
We do.
Yeah.
We have hummingbirdshere that don't migrate.
Oh, wow.
Because it's, it's mild enough that theycan, they can take it through the winter.
So
Yucca (33:04):
yeah.
Ours are all in Costa r already.
Uhhuh
, Mark: they're, they're long gone.
We have, we have pretty largepopulations of Canada geese
here that don't migrate either.
They just hang out.
Annoy everybody and eatamphibians and do what they do.
, Yucca: I love birds.
(33:26):
Me too, so much.
They, they, they give usso much in entertainment.
. Mark: Yes.
That's
very true.
Yeah.
We have birds and, and we've gotchipmunks that live around here.
And on the warmer days, I thinkthe chipmunks, they don't do
like a full hibernation here.
They, they kind of wake up andcome out in the warm days and,
(33:48):
and they have like little warswith the, the birds around here.
They'll chase each other backand forth and fight over who gets
what, you know, what seeds and Oh.
And we will also, we havewe'll sprout some seeds for.
Our animals too.
A lot of bird seeded.
You can just take it and the same wayyou would sprout, you know, anything
else that you would in the kitchen.
You just mm-hmm.
(34:08):
, soak it in the water and changethe water out every few days.
Or you could put it in a little bit ofsoil and we'd take that out and give
them a little bit of green in the winter.
Um hmm.
And so now we've got, that's.
We've got a whole varietyof folks who come to visit,
Mark (34:24):
so probably gives them more sugar too.
Once, once the, once the plants germinate,they start generating more sugar,
whereas the, the seed is largely fat.
Yucca (34:35):
Yeah.
You know, it's definitely gonnachange what the composition is.
We'll, we'll do a mix, so not justthe sunflower, but like the millet
and the all kinds of things for them.
Yeah, we like, we, we spoil our birds.
, , so
Mark (34:49):
I'm sure they appreciate it.
Yucca (34:51):
Oh yeah.
But water is actuallythe most important one.
Oh, I understand.
Depending on where you live, where welive, water is, is not easy to get.
This time of year it might be a littlebit different where you are, you're
in a wetter, I mean, you're justcoming out of your dry season though.
But, but giving them fresh water,that's really the tricky fine
thing to find this time of year.
So that's another one of the kids' jobsis they go out with the you know, we clean
(35:12):
out the bowl every day so that we're notletting any, we're not spreading any.
Diseases between the animals.
So they go out and change the, theybring out a new fresh bowl of water,
and then they take in the old one.
We wash it up and get it readyto take out for the next day.
So that's something thatthey can do as well.
Mark (35:28):
Wow, that's great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's, it's a simplya lovely time of year.
Mm-hmm.
, I, I really enjoy the,the, the yule season.
The many, many Solstice traditionsthat have grown up around it.
(35:49):
And of course, we've only scratchedthe surface of all those traditions,
you know, throughout the world thatpeople have celebrated as a part of
observing this important moment whenthe days start to get longer again.
And there is some prospect thateventually there will be more food.
. Yes.
Uh uh and.
(36:13):
I don't know.
In, in a way it sounds when, when youcompare this sort of romantic dramatic
story that Christianity has aboutChristmas and the meaning of the birth
of Jesus and all that kind of stuff, the,the idea of describing this holiday as one
that's basically about the food supply.
(36:34):
Mm-hmm.
sounds a, it sounds a little.
A little dull by comparison, but alittle underwhelming, to be honest.
Yeah.
But realistically speaking,that's what's going on.
We're, we're organismsand we, we like to eat.
We don't do well when we don't, andthis is the cycle that we're born into.
(36:55):
So, I think it's a, a wonderfulthing to reflect on years past and
the conditions that people managedto survive through, um mm-hmm.
in order to bring us here.
Yucca (37:07):
Right.
Yeah.
And, you know, that's, that's what ourgreat, great, great grandchildren are.
You know, it's just gonnakeep, hopefully keep going.
So
Mark (37:18):
hopefully, yeah.
Yeah.
Yucca (37:22):
and it's, it's lovely to think about that connection to all the other
humans that have been, right, right.
That have gone through something similar.
I mean, when you're at the equator,it's a little bit different, um mm-hmm.
, but the higher and higher your latitudeis, whichever way you're going.
The more, the more and more noticeable,the bigger and bigger a deal the solstice
Mark (37:44):
becomes, Yes, I was watching a YouTube video yesterday by a woman
who lives in the north of Sweden andwinter winter's intense up there.
Yeah.
I mean, there's very little light andshe, at one point she put a chair outside
(38:05):
and sat in the sun and she said, you.
. You know that feeling when you'revery thirsty and that first
sip of water hits your mouth.
Mm-hmm.
, that's what it's like when the sunhits my skin at this time of year.
Mm-hmm.
It's.
You know, you, your body is justso starved for, for the sunlight.
(38:29):
Yeah.
And of course she takes vitaminD supplements and all that kind
of stuff, which they do as well.
But there's nothing quite like sunlight.
We're, we're built to like it.
Yucca (38:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was actually just talking with oneof my students earlier today who's
from a same part of the world, andhe was saying that that day, is
four and a half hours long for themwhen they get to the winter solstice.
It's about nine and a halffor us, which feels short.
Mm-hmm.
. Mm-hmm.
, but four and a half hour day once.
Wow.
Mark (38:58):
Yeah, it's about nine where I am.
I'm, I'm considerablynorth of where you are.
Yucca (39:03):
Yeah.
I'm just about 36,
Mark (39:07):
so yeah, I think I'm, I think we're at 42.
You're that
Yucca (39:11):
far north?
I think so.
Oh,
Mark (39:13):
okay.
, maybe 40.2.
I don't know.
I haven't looked somewherethat, yeah, . Yeah, somewhere.
Somewhere in there.
So, yeah.
And my hope for all of our listenersis that you have meaningful observances
if that, if that's what you want.
And if not, that youhave a good long break.
Mm-hmm.
, and a, a relaxing and restorativetime because I do think that this
(39:38):
can be a restorative time if we don'tdrive ourselves crazy with busyness.
Yucca (39:43):
Right.
If you have cats, make sure to getsome cat snuggles in Oh, time of year
Mark (39:48):
for that.
. Yes.
My cat is sleeping just over there,just like four feet away from me.
Mine's
Yucca (39:57):
on top of my keys.
left the keys on the table.
He's right on top of them.
So
. Mark: So listen everyone, we have really enjoyed spending the last
it's, I mean, we're coming up onthree years now of doing this.
And thank you for taking thisjourney with us around the course
(40:19):
of the Wheel of the Year for 2022.
It's been, it's really been a great cycleand we've had wonderful comments and
feedback and input from listeners andwe're really looking forward to doing more
of this coming up, starting next week.
That's right.
So happy solstice.
Mark (40:40):
Happy Solstice.
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