Ari Gross on Wardens: Blending Family, Culture, and Supernatural

Ari Gross comic creator, writer, letterer in this shorts clip from the full interview about what his comic series "Wardens" is all about multicultural communities living in "The Ward" in the 1920s and how family, the supernatural and the cultures of Jewish, Chinese, Black immigrants struggled to survive while fighting the supernatural. This well researched comic takes inspiration from Will Eisner's A Contract With God, Fiddler On The Roof and DC Comics Gotham By Gaslight. Add in the amazing illustrations and art by Rob Jennex and editor Aubrey Lyn Jeppson (Scott Snyder's Tales From the Cloakroom) and you have the start of a six-issue (300 pages) comic series at your fingertips.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
hi there I'm Ari Gross from College Street Comics

you can find me online at (00:02):
www.arigross.ca
my Instagram is @college_st_comics
I'm on Twitter @aribgross
and you are watching and listening to two geeks talking
good morning afternoon
evening everyone
Two Geeks Talking is an

(00:23):
entertainment industry interview show
where we interview the creative people from the comic
film TV movie and video game industries
and of course
I'm your host Kurt Sasso
we are joined today by our returning guest
he was on the show last year
talking about his amazing comic
SCI fi series called awakening
he is back with an amazing comic series called: wardens
we're joined by the ever talented

(00:44):
Ari gross.
how are you doing today
I'm doing great
how are you doing
doing good, doing good.
for those who don't know anything about yourself
as a creative person
tells who you are and what you're bringing
to two geeks talking
I've got a tons of different weird life experiences
sort of thing
tend to be an academic
for a while
I did way more school than is probably

(01:05):
certainly financially advisable these days
I've totally reposition my life in terms of like
finding a 9 to 5 software development thing
coding apparently
I'm not terrible at that
so that's kind of fun
that was one side of things
I need but I needed something else
something creative
which is making comics
I I love comics
as you can see from behind me
I've got a bunch of them
I have two kids
and their rooms are just like

(01:25):
build with comics is kind of like
ridiculous and obscene
I've loved comics ever since I was a kid
I've always wanted to write a comic
but I didn't really have a good story for a while
and then I just had a story that sort of
sat in the back of my mind for years
okay if you don't do it now
when you're gonna do it
pandemic was on
I've got time
no one to stop me but myself
so I decided to start writing the story
and the story was "wardens". initially

(01:47):
a six issue series
these are double issues
so 44 pages
like 264 pages
I wrote the whole script
I never done any creative writing in the past
so this is a whole new experience for me
after I wrote it
I wrote like the
the draft for wardens
I looked around
asked people like hey
what do I do
how do I turn this into a comic
and they all said the same thing
"you can't turn 264 page script into a comic,

(02:09):
if you've never made a comic before.
do something small
something reasonable
do a four page or a six page or one pager."
so I did that
I wrote a comic
for Tales of the Cloak Room
which was a six page
I wrote a few other shorts for some other anthologies
"Fairy Tales from Mars"
"Might, Magic
and monster in laws"
I eventually

(02:30):
did a single issue "awakening"
I figure I want to understand the Kickstarter process
understand what it means to make a comic
soup to nuts
top to bottom
publish the whole thing complete
self published
to understand how it is
and then after all that
I was like okay
now it's time to do "wardens"
now it's time to tell the story
that I've wanted to tell from the absolute beginning
I am extremely thrilled for this Kickstarter

(02:52):
because this is the thing I've been working on since
2018 I would say
like it's finally coming to fruition
I mean this is just issue one of course
I've got a finished thing ready for issue two
and my artist is gonna start working on that
pretty much the moment this campaign is done
so we're going with this
it's actually happening
super excited about it.
I can tell yeah
no it did you hear it in your voice
what is wardens all about

(03:14):
yeah absolutely
wardens takes place in 1926 in the area of Toronto
called the Ward
or Saint John's Ward
but people called it the Ward
essentially
a poor immigrant neighborhood
the area that I'm dealing with is
Early 20th century
with a lot more immigration
the history of Toronto and immigration
is a whole thing I'm not gonna go into right now
but Sufficie to say
around the year 1900
a little bit before

(03:34):
you have large waves of immigration
from Europe
largely Jews, Italians,
Southern Europe
and Northern Europe
a lot of those people didn't live in 'the ward'
because the ward was the poor
slum neighborhood
for the point of the comic
the main ethnic groups I'm focusing on
are Eastern European Jews
which is actually a bit of a different
group within
the Jewish people
immigrated to Toronto before
which were largely sort of

(03:55):
germanic and
much more integrated
cosmopolitan,
much more secular
this has a lot of jews from
at the time
was Imperial Russia
the Russian Empire
so like Villina
which is Vilnius
Lithuania, Poland,
Russia. various places that Russia,
either conquered
or thinks it still wants to conquer
there's a whole thing about that
but it's a different kind of group of people that came
you have a Chinese

(04:16):
population in the ward, of course
there's a large immigration to Canada
the Chinese people
that took place in the early 20th century
before essentially
Chinese people were banned from coming to Canada
for a good 30 years
I forget the exact dates
there's a head tax institute
and then there's the Chinese
Exclusion Act
or I can't remember if it was called that
or something
slightly different in Canada
so this takes place after that

(04:36):
where there is a large number of Chinese immigrants
but they're mostly men
because people didn't want
families coming
they just wanted labourers
you know it's
essentially
the idea was
sort of have
almost like
an itinerant worker
sort of thing
but of course
that's not how most
immigration works
people come to a place and
different than they had at home
it's better it's safe
20th century
China is a bit of a disaster
China had a really rough

(04:58):
history for the first bit of the 20th century
so a lot of people here are quite happy to not be there
there's a black
community that exists in the wards
going back to
the mid 19th century
I'm not sure
at the time
I'm writing the 1920s
are descendants
of escaped slaves
people came
through the
underground
railway network to Canada
and there was even a couple people
at least one
particular that
a black man
I guess that uh

(05:19):
bought a bunch
of properties
and created a small
community of
place where black people could live
in the ward.
it's an interesting
sort of like
little melting pot
where you have these various
communities that are kind of
coming together
the story I want to tell is one that focuses a bit
on the communities
themselves and
their own contexts
how they have to eventually
come together
to deal with these sort of
supernatural
threats with these

(05:40):
social issues
there's a lot of labor stuff
there's a whole tension
between like
the boss and
union in this
which starts here
but it's really
picks up in the later
issues and then
main reason why everyone's
got to come together
is to deal with this
threat of the schmatta
the schmatta
for those of you don't know
schmatta is a Yiddish word
which means rag
the schamatta business was

(06:00):
it's what most Jews
or Ashkenazi Jews
call the garment industry
or a major source of
employment for
Jews in North America
and in Europe
but especially
immigrant Jews
my family used to work in the schamatta business
and my father's side
my grandfather
did my great
grandfather
did like so
I'm writing
something that's kind of
close to home
they weren't in Toronto
they were in Montreal
but the same basic idea

(06:22):
people come over
they need to do something
tailoring is a very
transportable skill
and it just becomes
sort of part of the culture
the schamatta
itself is a series of
an assemblage
of possessed clothes
it's blessed by uh
this kabbalistic magic
that this tailor
and in creating
without giving
too much away
at the end of the issue
you have the rise of this
angry series of clothes

(06:42):
that is looking for
revenge on the people
who started the fire
and other people
and it's not just one person in it
it's a multitude of souls
that gets sucked into this thing
I wanted a villain
that's I mean
the Schamatta itself
is inspired by
I think Venom
amongst other villains
villains that are weased
villains that
are collectives
like the sort of
Legion idea
which I like
sometimes they get pulled in different directions
the only thing holding them together
is people who

(07:03):
died in this tragedy
having common
which is their
lingering anger
and their desire
for revenge
and justice
from their perspective
that's the supernatural
sort of element
for one of them
there's gonna be a few more
that come in
in future issues
and they all
sort of get
mesh together
to make this interesting
story that's
grounded in one way
people just trying to get through their lives
working 11 hour days
where they're really not getting

(07:24):
paid anything
and how do you
even save money
or afford a house
or whatever
based on that
and then all this other crazy
supernatural stuff
so I want wardens to sort of
have those two pillars
to stand on
a little bit of grounded
a little bit of
supernatural
hopefully a lot of fun
who's the team
around wardens
with yourself
as the writer
who else do you bring on
for this amazing project
wardens is a
2 to 3 hander
depending how you look at me

(07:44):
it's me doing the writing
and I'm also doing the lettering
because I'm insane
and want to
adjust the dialogue
up until the last second
way that people
talk in diction
is extremely
important for wardens
so that's something that I work on
much more than
other projects
I would say
in terms of
getting people to
sound like they're saying
the right thing
the right way
the main guy is
Rob Jennex
he's out of

(08:05):
New Waterford
Nova Scotia
which is Cape Breton
it's right outside of Sydney
for those you don't know
Canada imagine
you're going east
and then like
keep going east
and basically go east
until you hit the water
like that's
where he lives
he lives very far east
not close to Toronto
like at all
Rob Jennex is great
I initially
put out a call for artist
for wardens on
seven different platforms
social media websites

(08:26):
he was the only one
whose work I liked
and it worked
I gave him some specifications for Rachel
the main character
he sent me a thing
I said well
I described it wrong
how about this
and then his
second thing
was perfect
there were like no changes
and I was like
okay clearly
he's on like
the same wave length
we're completely
on the same page
he's knows what's up
and his style is
perfect for this

(08:46):
it's got the
cartooniness
sort of energy
I want out of this
he's great and my editor
Aubrey Lyn Jeppson
who was the editor
for tales from
the Cloak Room
along with uh
CK Lawson uh
she was also
the editor I had
for awakening
I've been working with her
for a while
she's basically my
my voice of reason
certainly the person who's like
this is a crazy thing

(09:06):
to put in this book
do not put this
in this book
and I was like
okay that makes
lots of sense
or this is crazy
and good definitely
keep this in the book
we've been working together
pretty closely
for the past
few years on various
comic project
she's pretty much
been my only editor
and I really like her
she's great
she's also great
as a person
just a general
champion of me
and other people's work
it's a small team

(09:27):
but it's a good team
like everyone
on there is
good at what they do
and they are
right person for this
particular project
small but mighty
exactly that's
all you need
I'm doing all myself
pretty much
so you know
like getting
the book together
and everything
I like a very
hands on approach
especially cause
it has a very
particular feel
it's not your sort of
general comic

(09:48):
the back matter
is very specific
there's four pages of
stuff in the back
of the book
two pages is
just an essay
me explaining
why I'm writing
the story that
I'm writing
which isn't the
kind of stuff
that I think
you can really
get in a comic
if I were writing
for somebody else
so Ari what
does your morning
routine look
like especially
considering
your diverse
background and
experiences?

(10:08):
so I am not
a morning person
uh I do have to
get up for work
I've got a 9 to 5
which is great
after having
years of been
unemployed and
wondering what the hell
I'm gonna do
with my life
having a job is
actually nice
having a job
you like is
even better
but I am not a morning
person I mean
I got out of bed
today at 11:00
I would have
slept in longer
if I could have
but I had to

(10:29):
make kids lunch
I do my stuff at night
I write at night
I mean I'm thinking about it
continuously
I'm very protective of my time
that tends to
be at night
that's always
how I've been
I'm just always
a night person
who are three people
whether alive
or historical
that have had the most
significant
impact on your
writing style
and storytelling?

(10:49):
interesting question
I'll talk specifically
about wardens
because I think different
stories draw
from different people
as influences
right now the other
comic I'm working on
is called "upkeep"
and it's sort of
a family drama
horror people
I guess I feel
inspired by
when I write that
are very different
than wardens
which is a supernatural
action comedy
so for wardens
uh some of the
people that
I've been drawing

(11:09):
on a lot are
here's a big one
Will Eisner
I mean if you're gonna
draw on somebody
draw on like
this guy's work
the spirit,
uh contract with God
the wardens
has a lot of
sort of the spirit
energetic feel
if you read
some of the
Old Spirits
they're fun
they're like
the kind of book
that you would want to
just sort of
continue reading
because the characters

(11:29):
are engaging
and it's like
there's the plot
moving forward
but it's not
just about that
it's really
just about the characters
and a contract
for god I mean
I can't understate,
how important
this is. comics,
in general for
Jewish comics
specifically
a contract for
god has what
I believe is
the most succinct
encapsulation
of Jewish thought
if anyone doesn't know
a contract for god
I'll just give

(11:49):
you a primer
this is from the 70s
it is arguably
the first graphic
novel really
laying down
new ground here
the story focuses
on on a man
a religious
Jewish man whose
daughter died
and he is destroyed
he is like, "this is garbage
I've done everything
I can for god
and god has done
nothing for me."

(12:10):
so he turns
his back on Judaism
turns his back
on the faith
becomes very successful
becomes sort of
a well to do
businessman
very secular
but realizes
there's still
something missing
in his life
so then he goes to these
these rabbis
scholars and
he wants to have a
contract with God
a new contract
previously had a
contract but
it was broken
he felt by God
so he wants
something new
and there's

(12:30):
this line is
not all religion
it's a contract
between man
and God which is
like Judaism
in a nutshell
that's what it is
it's the idea that
you do something
someone that
looks after you
and it's a contractual obligation
rather than
obligation out of
it's not like
Christianity
it's not like Islam
it's not like
other religions
that are more
faith based
there's an element of faith

(12:51):
but it's about
following the rules
which is something that is
massively influenced
how I write
wardens eventually
with we get to
all the Jewish
magical stuff
it's about following the rules
it's about like
almost like coding
doing things
in a way that
if you do this
you will get
this result
and it's not about
lying faith
which is different
I feel than
a lot of other
people's take
on religion

(13:11):
if anyone hasn't read this
you don't need
to read the
other stories,
although they
are also great
this whole book
this drops the Avenue
sort of trilogy
talks about
and it's little
layers in the
30s mostly but
it's the same
kind of thing
it's like mostly
poor people
living in a poor
neighborhood
trying to navigate
their life. you know
the stories are
small in nature
they're very
personal and
that's something
I wanted to
do in wardens
I don't want this

(13:31):
to be a world
ending story
by issues 6
culmination
of the story
with all the plots
coming together
and big fights
is gonna be big stuff
it's not about
saving the world
cause I don't want it
to be that big
I want it to be about
something that's
very personal
very focused
very local the
things matter
a lot to these people
but they might
not matter to
someone who's
like you know
three kilometres

(13:52):
out that way you know
they're just
in a different
neighborhood
they have different
stuff going on
different values
different backgrounds.
yeah I want
to make it as
sort of as tight
and focused
as possible
on the characters
and the communities
a couple other people
who sort of
inspired me
as a writer
as a comic writer
I guess first
would be Bill
Willingham and
Mark Buckingham
did Fables Jonathan

(14:12):
Hickman who
did a bunch of
other stuff
cause of their
world building
and their ability to create
these places
that you would
want to live in
and that have
their own rules
their own logic
their own everything
but are different and
unique I mean
the world of
fables there's
a lot going on.
it's what if
fables like
story magical
fairy tales
you know were real
and they lived

(14:33):
in their own
little part
of New York
but it really
gets into the
characters that are
living there
in their relations
with each other
and like the setting
in the place
it's its own
thing and I
really admire
the way that
that fables
does that and
I mentioned
Jonathan H Ickman
just because
he's done a bunch
of other stuff
that's also very
world building
well also being
sometimes very
good character
driven stories
"east of west"

(14:53):
for example
is all like
cool fantasy
world building
stuff and it's
a very cool
world it feels
very lived in
it's also a
history kind
of thing so
that's one thing
about Warren's
I wanted to
focus on this
community being
its own thing
and even though
the world I'm
building is
geographically
small I want to
make it rich
I want to get into
the different
communities
that live there

(15:13):
and that's one
thing I like
about fables
for example
is the fact that
you'll have
some stories
that focus on
these characters
and then you'll have
to focus on
stories stories
that focus on
these characters
and then these characters
they might live
next to each other
and they might
live a little
far away from each other
but it's like
they're all
part of the
same community
but they're
not the same
people so I
really want to
drill down into

(15:34):
that I guess
if I were mentioned
one other person
Sholem Aleichem
the Yiddish
writer who wrote
the stories
that became
Fiddler on the roof
a Fiddler on
the roof I was
actually in Fiddler
on the roof
in university
I went to Mount
Allison University
out in Sackville,
New Brunswick.
I was the only Jewish
person in the
entire cast
of filler which
I thought was
kind of amusing
it's a great
musical and

(15:54):
a lot of the
ideas and a lot
of the ways
people talk
Jewish style
comedy Yiddish
kites, the actual
Yiddish and
many places
I've just stolen
a whole bunch of that
there's a scene
in the first
issue of wardens
where Rachel
and the rabbi that she
is close with
they're walking
through the town
and you know
they're talking with
the Milkman
and the butcher
the Milkman
and the butcher
are different
personality types

(16:15):
they don't get along
but they're
kind of close
I mean that's
just straight
up ripped off
like fiddler
on the roof
where you have
the heavy of
Tevye the milkmen
and Lazar Wolf
the butcher
and you know
their milk and dairy
they don't mix
which is of
course is a
sort of Jewish
dietary thing
you have this
thing that like
everyone gets
the cultural
reason for it
and then you
just like plunk
plop it onto
the characters
and it fits
and I was like

(16:35):
that's great
I'm taking it
that's how writing goes.
and if you can
see where I've
lifted from
then all the
more power to you
that means that
you'll probably
have a richer
experience of
reading it I
mean everything
stolen from
everywhere yeah
there is no
original stories
as a writer
juggling various roles
between being a family man and being a writer
what tools or techniques do you use to stay focused

(16:58):
and maximize your productivity?
well there's a few things I do
first is I have an insane
crushing sense of guilt if I don't work on my projects
I don't recommend this to anybody
but the sort of neurotic
if I don't do this
then I've let myself down
I feel that the way that I tend to operate in life
as I sort of set goals for myself
and I'm very serious about achieving them

(17:20):
and if I don't achieve them
I feel like oh man
I should be working to achieve them
and you know
I can change
sometimes I decide I wanna do something else and I
that's okay
but for something like comics
I believe in
and writing or any sort of creative endeavor
I believe in like regular
more than intense bouts
so for example
I write or I do something related to comics nightly

(17:40):
these days has been less writing and more you know
making stuff for social media
working on things regularly; 1 to
2 hours a day is way better than you just think oh
I'm gonna do it all Saturday
and you spend six hours doing it
and you just get burnt out
it's kind of funny
it's the challenge isn't to stay focused
cause I'm constantly thinking of this stuff
it's kind of occupies a permanent

(18:01):
large portion of my brain
it's more of a time management thing than anything else
I am super protective of my time at night
after I put the kids to bed
which is pretty late
my daughter probably falls asleep at like 11:00
we're all night out in this house
no one goes to bed early
then I'm like okay
I need to write
and I'm focused on that
and I need to make sure that I do that every day

(18:22):
so it's a lot of time management
understanding that you won't get everything done
but if you get something done
if you edit one page of script
that's one page better than you were before
might not even be that amazing
it might not be just small things
maybe you've written the page
you're gonna throw it out
you've written a page
and you realize at the end of the day
I don't wanna do this
you're playing around with a direction for a character

(18:43):
and you decide no
that's not good
you've asked yourself the question
is this a good thing to do
you've tried it
answered the question
no it's not
that's progress
that's not just spinning your wheels
that's understanding your characters better
and getting deeper into your writing
I don't see any effort
even if it's something you don't end up using
as a bad or a waste
I take a very sort of
I don't know
like Aristotelian approach to life

(19:05):
in terms of like
it's less about what you think of yourself
or more about what you do
the things you do
that's who you are
that's how I try to live
I wanna be a writer
you have to write
I wanna be a comic creator
you have to create comics
and if you don't do that
you can tell yourself anything
but if you're not walking the walk
then then you don't got it
how is your Canadian
and specifically
your Montreal and Toronto upbringing

(19:26):
influence the themes and
atmospheres of wardens?
I tend to write
very personal stories
not just like
it's all about me
but stories that are based on where I live
typical sort of, write
what you know. Right?
not a shocker
someone writes a personal story
everyone writes personal stories
for me in terms of the subject matter
the context
like I've tried to draw on a lot of my family history

(19:47):
so my family came to Canada
on my mother's side
in the late 20s and 30s
my father's side
early 20th century
and a lot of the stuff in wardens
in terms of the characters
that's all just like
drawing on family history
all the names are just like
also from my family
there's someone called Yakov Hayfits
you know I'm part hayfits

(20:07):
much as I am gross
I guess by anything else
so there's a lot of like
digging into the history
for the details
but also for the main themes
for example
on my father's side
my great grandfather
came to Montreal
from Warsaw
I think either that or Villina
he was from one
his wife is from the other
came from Eastern Europe
got a job making dresses
he became a tailor

(20:27):
eventually he opened a factory
had other people make dresses for him
and then my grandfather went into the trade
and eventually
like closed everything out
and change businesses now
the times are changing
that time garment industry
that's just like
all taken for this story
there's a lot of interesting uh
labor issues
which you know
we'll get into as the story goes along
and you'll see in the first issue
a lot of that is drawing on my past

(20:49):
my grandfather owned a factory
and my other
grandfather and mother side
worked at a factory
and it was on strike a bunch of the time
he lived in Windsor at
so worked at Ford plant
they had some
some massive strikes in like the 50s and 60s
it's kind of neat
I'm just sort of picking
wherever you know
all these stories that people tell me about you know
my mom grew up
she was like
your grandfather was home
a lot of the time
her mother had to go and get a job because you know

(21:10):
they were on strike
and she needs
support the
uh the family
a lot of the cultural
Jewish stuff is like
totally in here
I didn't even realize
how much of American
or North American
comedy was Jewish
until I was older
you just sort of like
oh "Seinfeld",
like I get it
you know like "arrested development"
I get it so my wife
for example
who didn't know anything about
Jewish culture
she's a Chinese Canadian
from Edmonton

(21:30):
later after she met my family
she's like I
now understand
"seinfeld"
like I get "curb your
enthusiasm" like
I understand these people
like in a deep way
because they're just
your family
arrested development
I can literally map
every single person in that show
to someone in my family from like
it's it's eerie
not necessarily
flattering either
those people are kind of all nuts

(21:52):
my family is kind of all nuts
so this particular sort of
style of Jewish comedy
which is even kind of
difficult to explain
but you sort of know it
if you see it
that's kinda
what I wanna channel a lot in in wardens
dealing with these specific
historical issues that were in Toronto
which is not where I'm from
but something where I've
done a lot of
research into
there's a great book
called "The Ward"

(22:12):
series of essays
from last decade
uh sort of an anthology
about people in "The Ward"
and various
communities there
and their struggles
so I've done
a bunch of research
try to marry
sort of the historical facts
of the place
I'm interested in
telling the story of
with the cultural style
and the language
of some of my other
inspirations
it's a lot of

(22:32):
just picking from everywhere
cramming it all into the story
hopefully it all click with people
use of Yiddish
in wardens adds a
unique touch
how do you balance
making it accessible to a broader audience
while preserving
its cultural
authenticity?
the style is definitely
different in terms of dialogue
and a lot of other stuff
a lot of Yiddish in there
a lot of untranslated

(22:53):
Yiddish by the way
that's not a big deal
because we all have translators
on our persons at all time
like you just look into your phone
but also I spent a lot of time to try to make sure that
anything that wasn't translated
was understandable
from context
so for example
at one point
someone calls someone
uh they say
you're gonna
"They'll think you're a Nafke "
which is Yiddish
or prostitute

the person responds (23:14):
"well,
they might as well think
I'm a prostitute
all the ass
I gotta kiss all day."
or something so it's
it's trying to blend
the new words that people might not be as
familiar with
because honestly
no one these days
really speak the
Yiddish, I mean
it's been a dying
language for like
a long time
it's not something I expect anybody to know
but it's something that you can probably learn
without even having to do that much work
because I put in the effort to explain what the terms

(23:36):
mean without being
translator note
this means that
context writing
figured out
Wardens,
incorporates
elements of Jewish magic
how did your cultural
background and personal
experiences
sorry that just
did you have Jewish magic when you're growing up?
like was that
did I have Jewish magic
oh I'm a long standing Jewish musician

(23:58):
musician, magician
maybe both so Jewish magic is interesting because
there's different communities historically
that engage in different
spiritual or magical practices within Judaism
the Jewish people are of course
a diverse people historically
who've done various things and lived various places
for thousands of years
and so in the places that they lived

(24:19):
adopted many of the practices
they're the religious or spiritual
or magical or folklore
mythical practices of the people around them
while having their own separate culture as well
for example
there's some cross religious pollination
terms of things like commemorating the dead
a tradition Judaism
lighting a Yahrtzeit,
it's Yiddish for for a year time,
time of the year

(24:39):
candle commemorate someone who's died
so you light a little candle
you let it burn out
and you light on the day that they've died
either in the Jewish calendar
if you're observant
or the western calendar if you don't care
that initially comes from I believe
Catholic tradition
I think it's a German Catholic thing
lighting candles to commemorate the dead
the year after they died or something like that
so there's lots of cross cultural pollination

(25:01):
which is always super interesting
and the kind of thing that's very
difficult to summarize like a single book
all this is to say that in terms of the magical stuff
different people had different
magical practices
or different spiritual practices that were based in
mysticism at different times
so in the 18th century
you have the rise of
uh Hasidism
which broke off from sort of Orthodox Judaism

(25:23):
and then became its own form of orthodoxy
but a lot of the hasidism is it
supposed to be very spiritual
supposed to be sort of more directly
that's about just following the rules
and more about like
celebrating
god and sort of dynamic fashion
by some stuff which is closely related to Hasidism
is Kabbalistic magic
Kabbalah which is not something that I'm an expert in
pretty esoteric

(25:43):
even by like Jewish standard
it's kind of like the weird people writing
their ideas about the structure of the universe
and the mind of god and how it's representing humanity
all through these like
interconnected domains
I'm probably gonna get like
taken a task by someone
who actually knows something about this
cause I don't know as much
but I do know
what I want to do is I want to incorporate
kabbalistic magic

(26:04):
and make that basically the root of the supernatural
plot point basically
you have these people who are kabbalistic magicians
and their style of magic
in this case
it's in clothing uh
there's blessings
which are just
Yiddish called,
Hebrew called brujas,
the idea is that one guy
in the story Yakov
he wants to make
magical clothes
so he wants to sew

(26:25):
blessings into the clothes
and he's doing that by using different stitches
because you can
you know translate any letters into
essentially a binary
using Morse code you know
different stitches
give you different letters
Hebrew letters
in this case
which when read together
give it a blessing
so the idea
is that you can literally
sew in these blessings to god

(26:46):
and the clothes will then give you
magical powers
longer life
resistance to disease
and so this all sort of goes awry later on
when all these
magical clothes and all the blessings sort of
come together
and in a moment of
desperation
this guy sets up
the conditions
that will cause
the clothes to become this sort of supernatural
magically empowered antagonist

(27:06):
who's essentially
and vulnerable
because all the clothes have been sewn
to be invulnerable uh
that's what the blessings
are there for
the root for this is I wanted
coming back to a
contract with god
the idea that
if you so something with a blessing
or you so something with a
magical command
it's a contract
it's it's saying that I am
saying something to God

(27:27):
I am saying something
praising his name
or whatever
and because of that
I'm going to receive something
it's this sort of
contractual
like everyone follows the rules of magic
which is a lot more
came to coding
I call them the commandments
which is like
we just think like
how can I make like
magical coding
through sewing
spiritual things into clothes
which I think is

(27:47):
the idea in Judaism
that it's about the contract
it's about the covenant
it's about the sort of given take
it's about what you do
and then you know
what you will receive
or what you should
receive because of it
rather than
articles of faith
yeah I wanted to create a magical
style that was
culturally Jewish
in that sense
I'm not a religious person
I didn't grow up religious
we grew up very

(28:08):
culturally Jewish
in terms of
celebrating
holidays and stuff like that
but none of the
religious stuff
none of that's like
from my childhood
or anything like that
a lot of people are
but I'm not
and in fact
many people in Toronto
are very secular
because I'm
going back 100 years ago
I wanted something that
you had a little more of the religion in it
and a little more of the religion
in a different way
so it's not just

(28:29):
the religion as it is
but it's the religious practices
transformed into something that
in line with the rest of the story
which is based
on you know
the schmatta business
based on clothes
based on sewing
based on garments
and so it sort of
brings together
the historical
practice of people with the
religious extra

(28:49):
you know what
if you know
that you could get powers from this
with the supernatural side
more than anything else
given your background
as a historical
scientific instrument
collection curator
how do you balance
historical accuracies
with the creative
liberties necessary
for a supernatural
crime series
set in 1926?

(29:10):
the big issues for me
were designing
because I'm doing
historical fiction
is deciding
what's in and what's out
so I have a background
as a historian
and philosopher of science
I did a PhD
in the history and
philosophy of science
and previous
degrees in physics
and history and
philosophy of physics
I take a pretty hard nosed
rigorous approach to history

(29:31):
I like studying things
as close to the source as possible
as someone says a thing
check your sources
doesn't matter
a real sort of
questioning
critical historian approach
at least that's how I was trained
which is good and bad
for writing
historical fiction
cause on the one hand
you want everything to be accurate
you want to be like
oh here's a cool thing that happened

(29:51):
this has to be in the story
because it happens
and also it's a part of history
it's required to tell
but not everything is like that
so there's a lot of curation
a lot of deciding
just cause something's cool
doesn't have to go in there
a lot of that comes down to the editing.
myself for working with Aubrey
or as I had
these whole subplots
that really weren't going anywhere
but we're based on some interesting

(30:11):
historical stuff
for example
there's a factory
that everything is based around
wardens is called stones
it is located
where the eatons
that store exists
but the factory doesn't
stones provides
the stuff for eatons
total different
break from history
but that's fine
because that's the story
I want to tell
like I don't want to tell eatons
I want to tell
a different factory
with different owners
different conditions

(30:32):
you just have to
like decide
what's in and what's out
and then kind of
stick to that
historically
I set this in 1926
because 1926 was
during prohibition
in Ontario.
one or two years later
the laws started to be changed
and it gets loosened up a bit.
which maybe in future
issues or whatever
I'll address.
but right now

(30:52):
I wanted to be that
they go to a speak easy
and a speak
easy is like not
a place that
exist necessarily
in like 1935
liquor is legal
in 1935 I mean
you might have a bar
but it's not the same sort of thing
you don't have the same
sort of worry about the police
shutting you down
and then same
run running
side for the crime
and everything
so you gotta pick and choose

(31:13):
it's tough I mean
every time I write something
that's like
not technically
historically
accurate like
a little part of me is like
what are you doing
but it's got to be like
a character
based story
the characters journeys
and their interactions
with each other
is more important
than getting
all the little
details right
and so if you have to change some of the details to

(31:33):
have a better character story
then that's okay
as long as you know
what you changed
and if someone comes up to you
and you're like
actually I'd be like
yeah I know
but that just draws people towards
commenting and everything like that
and falls down to
social media
promotions yeah
if anyone's got different things to say about it
like come at me
please like
more engagement
the better you know
your diverse

(31:54):
career from a certified
nuclear energy
worker to a doctor of philosophy
is impressive
how have these varied
experiences
shaped your perspective
on life and
influenced your
storytelling?
it all comes together
and some places
more than others
I mean I wouldn't say that's
my experience
doing a theme
line optics

(32:15):
necessarily
has a huge amount to play in
wardens actually
has probably
more to do with my
current job
I'm doing as a software
developer in the
summer of 2003
I worked at triumph
which is a particle accelerator
out in Vancouver
I spent a lot of time in
just a trailer
coding at the time was C
and Fortran 77
because all things
was built back in the day

(32:35):
in the older code
architecture
the ability
to stare at something
that's not working
wonder why it's not working
believe it should be working
and then get it to
finally work
that's not something you
have to learn
through working at
like a boring
coding job in a trailer
but that's that does help
so a lot of
the skills of like
these weird
academic like
you just gotta

(32:55):
like focus and
do it and get
down into the details
and there's no way out
but through
to figure it all out
that kind of focus
helps a lot
for these kind of stories
that are so intricate
and that are so
historical based
I'm the kind of person
who tends to
get into something
and get into it in a
in a big way
if I'm doing it
I take it seriously
that's basically
how I approach things

(33:16):
especially like
creative endeavors
I've had this
weird academic
background for
I did like physics
I did philosophy of science
history of science
I was a curator
uh for the university of
Toronto's Scientific
Instrument Collection
going around
and collecting old
historic scientific
instruments
and making sure the
people don't
throw them out and
studying them
and putting them online
and the collection
which is really run by

(33:36):
uh this guy
Eric White and
hammer that's uh
you can go to
their website utsic.org
I think all
all the stuff
in the past
I think has primed me
for a story
like wardens
I wasn't interested in
history as a kid
I I was very much
about the future
I would like
SCI fi like
things that
were happening
years from now
or what's happening now
where we're going
I kind of thought

(33:56):
history was
like living
in the past
you know but
the more I got
into history
you realize that
the issues that
people were facing
in the past
are like basically
the same issues
are facing now
I mean there's
some superficial
differences
but it's basically the same
every time I hear
on the news media
about anything
that's like
superlative or
like politics
is way worse now
than it used to be

(34:16):
it's just like
you don't know
anything about
politics like
it was terrible
people are more
divided it's
like no like
people were
more divided
there are huge
things that
happened that
just one or two
generations ago
people tend to
forget about
which is something
that I feel
is important
to bring up
and focus on
in historical fiction
especially if
you can find
a way to link
what was happening then

(34:37):
or the issues
that they're facing
with what's
happening now
writing a story
about a Jewish seamstress
you can't afford
to live where
she's living
even though
she's living in a poor
neighborhood
she's trying to
save up some
money to like
get her own place
and she's working
these long hours for like
at a terrible
job that's a
universal story
that can pretty
much be told
anytime you know
the details of
it are like
some 1926 but

(34:58):
like man like
that's today
that's every time
it's one thing
I found in history
there's sort of
two rules I
made for myself
about thinking
about the past
1. one is that
don't assume
that everything
is different
because a lot
of the times
people are kind of
the same and
a lot of the stuff is
very similar
2. the other is
don't assume
everything's the same
because in fact
people did have different
culture values
and lived in
different places

(35:18):
with different
specific things
they were dealing with
and thought
differently
about stuff
so it's trying
to find out
where things
are different
and where they're the same
that makes things so
interesting
and especially
about the Jewish
culture and
comedy and comics
and everything like that
that I I think
a lot of people
just watch pass over
we know Mel Brooks
and we know the

(35:38):
DC and Marvel
comic creators
the culture
itself is just so gloss
over that it's
it's ridiculous
it's ridiculous
because I I
I know nothing
about the Jewish
culture I know
nothing about
Yiddish or Judaism
or anything
like that in
in a comic context
or in a life
context and so
if you can explain it
and if you talk about it
and as you're
linking back
to your comic as well

(35:59):
throughout our
conversation
I think it's
something that is
it's necessary
and giving it
a wonderful
in depth approach to
it and and I
I appreciate
that knowledge
and I'm sure
people who watch this will
appreciate it
as well.
thanks that
if I can just
just freestyle on that
for a second
one thing that
is very apparent
when looking at
the history of comics
the history of Jewish
comics is that

(36:19):
most of the
comic writers
or the early
comic creators
were Jewish
the first comic
book published
in the 30s was
published by a
Jewish publisher
the first superhero
of course Superman
two Jewish creators
one from Toronto
Batman like all
all these guys
Marvel Stan Lee
Jack Kirby so
for the back
of the comic

(36:39):
I have a little
essay talking about
it's called
juice and comics
you know finally
it's like wait
what like it's like
although Jewish
people have
been involved in
comics for many years
and I think
I identify 90
Jewish comic
authors that
I can think of
most people
don't write
stories about Jews
and I think
a lot of that was
because people
at the time
writing comics
for a mainstream

(37:00):
audience not
gonna write
about their
small ethnically
specific background
they wanna write
stories about
you know what
people wanna read
so you know
when you're
making Captain
America is he
gonna be like
a Jewish character
or is he gonna be this
like blonde
haired blue eyed
all American
male well if
you're creating
a character
in the 40s like
you do not create

(37:20):
a Jewish character
if you wanna sell
comic books
no one's buying that
no one wants
to read that
and most people
at the time
were happy to write
stories that were
Jewish culturally
in some way
the thing of course
is a very culturally
Jewish character
from the way that he
sort of talks
but he wasn't
officially a
Jewish character
until like 2,006
or something like that
like officially

(37:41):
like it took
you know 40 years
45 years for
the thing was
like ideal the
most Jewish
comic character
to be Jewish
Spider Man Spider Man
is a classic
Jewish character
in the sense that
he can't win
which is an essence of
Jewish comedy
and I think
deeply rooted in
sort of Judaism
the cultural
experience of
Judaism were like
even if you
win you lose

(38:01):
you know it's
always like
one step forward
two steps back
that's sort of
like the general
cultural feeling
born throughout
you know centuries
of historical
oppression every time
you get some
advancement
there's something
that sort of
you know puts
you and your
people back
and Spider Man
I think is a classic
example of that
where when he
wins he loses
every victory he has
as Spider Man

(38:22):
comes out of
the cost to
Peter Parker
which is something
you find a lot in
sort of typical
Jewish comedy
usually you
know the big
happy ending
where everything
is great but
that's not usually
how they end
or at least
it's you know
sometimes it's how
but it's not
there's usually
a tinge of sadness
a tinge of failure
to it a tinge
of the cost

(38:42):
I think Stanley
was writing
and drawing
on that sort
of that style
cultural background
the tropes of that
but Spider Man
is not a Jewish character
not officially
he's probably
Anglican he
goes to church
he gets married
in church he's not
Jewish because
no one's writing
Jewish characters
because they won't sell
especially in
the time the
comics starting
the 30s and 40s
like pervasive
anti Semitism
like Jews were
seen as these

(39:03):
weird people
who were not like
the rest of us
that's the idea
most of Europe
was Christian
most of America
was Christian
Jews were seen as this
strange religious
minority that
just kind of
did their own
thing we don't
really get it
they're still
doing it so
we don't know why
and that's not
the kind of
story that's
not the people
that you base
your stories on
if you want
to reach an
actual audience

(39:23):
selling a book
at the time
especially the comic
writers were very
very intent
on having people
buy their books
this was a thing
they did for
money because
that was the
only thing that
kind of could do
you know like
Jack Kirby could
draw Stanley
could write
they weren't even
like proud of
the fact that
they were like
comic writers
wasn't a glamorous
fancy thing
like it is now

(39:43):
so the history
has changed
quite a bit
in terms of that
there are a few
comics that deal
with Jewish
subjects like
I mentioned
Will Eisner
of course a
contract with
god but I mean
when he was
during the spirit
the spirit wasn't there
at least officially
Jewish like
that wasn't
a thing that
people did to
sell things
in the popular
medium that
was kind of
a thing they
could reflect on
years later
you know when he wrote a
contract with god

(40:04):
he was already
like decades
into his career
he wasn't looking to
like make a
popular story
he was looking to
write a personal
story that's
one reason why
it is so good
there's other
instances of Jewish
comics of course
there's our
Spiegelman's
Mouse which
everybody knows
the Rabbi's Cat
which I would
strongly recommend
which is written
by a French
author it takes
place around
I think also
in the 20s I

(40:24):
believe it's
Tunisia Tunisia
Algeria I think
it's Tunisia
so it's totally
different it's
not Eastern
European Jewish
it's North African
probably ethnically
more Arabic
or closer to
uh a Berbers
that is to you know
sort of like
white Europeans
but there's
not a lot of stories
that focus on
Jewish characters
specifically
so one of the reasons
I'm writing
this is just to
fill this gap

(40:45):
I mean I'm not
angry about it
I don't come at this
from a point of
like ah why
is there not
more Jewish
representation
everyone tells
the stories
they want to tell
and they work
in the particular
you know economic
and cultural
climates that
they're working in
I just happen
to be in a place
that I have
this idea for
a story and
yet there's
nothing like it
in terms of
the setting
or in terms of
the culture
that's expressing it

(41:06):
so I'm trying to do
something that's new
and not from a
an angry it's
about damn time
perspective
but from a this
is the story
I wanna tell
and I don't
think anyone
else has done
it. what has
been the most
challenging
aspect of bringing
wardens to life
and how did you
overcome it?
well writing
the story was
the easiest part

(41:26):
and I don't mean
like writing
the finished
product which
was difficult
because editing
is hard getting
the basic idea
for it just
kind of came
organically
interestingly
I think the
origins for wardens
the first time
I came up with anything
like it was
I don't know
probably 2017
2018 something like that
where I was
reading Gotham
by Gaslight
Victorian Batman story

(41:46):
and I got the
idea of putting
like Ragman
in that story
cause I was like
wouldn't be cool
if there was like a
Victorian Ragman
for some reason
I I last on to
that and I was
like what is
Ragman it's
probably gonna
be a Jewish
character since he's
maybe working
the garment
trade and I
think Ragman
also is Jewish
at least in some
incarnations
of the character
it just sort of slowly
built from that
by the time

(42:06):
I started writing it
I had a pretty
good idea of
where I want
take the characters
what the characters were
what their main
motivations were
that wasn't
hard not to say
it's not hard
for other people
to do stuff for
it wouldn't be
hard for me
to do other
stories but
for some reason
that just kind of came
like it felt
like the story
wrote itself
the hardest
part was finding
a way to make it
really finding

(42:27):
an artist was
difficult that
took months
eventually the fact
that I found
Rob is great
but it's like
it was feeling
pretty hopeless
for a while
and I was looking at
people cause
someone would
express interest
in their work
wasn't that good
or wasn't the
right style
or someone would
say yeah I'm
interested in this
and they're like
great it's a
44 page comic
and it's gonna
be an ongoing
series people
are like well
that's nuts
like I don't
wanna commit
myself to like

(42:48):
six years of
like writing
like 264 pages
of the story
like a lot of
people are not in
for something
that's as long
so finding the team
specifically
the artist was
a challenge
after that a
lot of the challenges
and comics are
as writer at least
is understanding
how to work
with the artist
at first uh
cause sometimes
the artist is like
I'm doing this

(43:08):
and you're like
no that's not
what I want
and then the
artist explains
to you what
they're doing
you're like
oh that's better
and sometimes it's not
sometimes it's
like that's not
what I want
and here's why
you're just
misreading the scene
the person is not
you know excited
they're afraid
or whatever
it is an understanding
where your responsibility
as a writer
and I guess editor
and comic creator
like you know
putting the

(43:28):
whole thing out
like how that works
with respecting
the artist as
an individual
with their own
artistic vision
because you're
hiring the artist
to bring themselves
they're not
just like a
means of making
your thing a
reality but
it's really
it's a collaboration
and you have
to find how
to work with
someone and
and where you
can trust them

(43:49):
and I wouldn't
say that's the
hardest thing
but that took
time like first
few pages like
you're constantly
second guessing
you're like
is this right
does this guy know
what's going on
but by like
you know page 30
you're like
okay we're on
the same page
we've been doing this for
like 30 pages
already like
I can trust
this person
that in their rough
that that's
gonna be good
and picking myself

(44:10):
and trying to
decide like
where to push back
on historical
accuracy and
where not to
it was actually a funny uh
funny actor
at one time
he was drawing
a scene it's
a back alley
in the ward
it's supposed
to be like a
slummy place
even for the slums
you know Rachel's
knocking on
the store that says
Night Clinic
she doesn't know
what's behind it
her boyfriend
told her to
check it out
but she's like
what is this
place and my

(44:30):
artist drew
the sketches
and there was a guy
who looks like
he's doing this
against the wall
and I was like
okay uh so I
research cause
I'm insane I
research the
history of like
this and I was
like I think
it was like this
and I was like
actually you
might want to
make it more
more like this
because I think
that's more
historically
appropriate
for a time a sign
that people
would have used
and he's like
his hands just

(44:50):
propped up against
the wall man
he's taking a pee
and I was like
oh okay like
you know so
there's a lot of
like checking
myself even
to realize like
what is happening
and like what
is an issue
and what's not
I'm a real historical
pendant for
some stuff like
I don't use words
that don't exist
at the time
so for example
people had boyfriends
in the 20s but

(45:11):
they did not date
the idea of
dating comes
from the 40s
just the term
to date someone
so every single term
I use it's like
me looking it
up and being
like is this
historically
accurate or
is there a better
historically
accurate way
of doing that
like you can
spend forever
doing that and
the challenges
is deciding
when to put
in the effort

(45:31):
to make it better
because you
want historical
accuracy and
when you're
just doing this
as a way of
like avoiding
writing the
scene or like
it's like you
spent an hour on
researching
this term just
don't use the term
if that's gonna
drive you crazy
unless someone's
playing Scrabble
and they're
using your book
as a backdrop
for the words
they need to
pick haha no
see yeah it's
in this book
it's accurate

(45:51):
he's a historian
he knows what
he's talking
about exactly
he said it in
the 20s cause
he wrote it
the characters in wardens
represent a
tapestry of
cultures how
do you approach
ensuring accurate
and respectful
representation
while keeping the story
engaging?
one thing I
really want
to do in wardens
is focus on

(46:12):
a small number
of cultural groups
specifically
the Ashkenazi
Jewish population
of the ward
the Chinese
community which is
two streets
over from where
the synagogue
at least a lot of the
stuff happens
so very close
proximity but
not a lot of
intercultural
connections uh
Black community
of the world
as well which
I mentioned is a
even an older
community than
than all the

(46:32):
others to a
lesser degree
an Italian that
comes up few
issues down
there's others
for me it was
very important
to write a story
that it's not
superficial
I don't want
to just have
like this is
the Chinese person
and they do
the Chinese
thing no this is
a story that has
Chinese people
and they engage
in different
activities that are
represented

(46:52):
both through
individual culture
where they come from
their historical
culture and
the culture
of the place
they're living in
so for example
in issue 2 there's a Chinese
restaurant called
Lucky Dragon
and we get to
meet him so
sunny is a main
character in
issue 1 we don't
really see much
more about him
we know that
he works as
a porter in factory
we know that
he's dating
Goldie we get
to know him a bit

(47:13):
but we don't
know his people
his community
so an issue 2
it opens that up a bit
where it's like
we're not just
focusing on
the one guy
we're focusing on
other people
and the same
thing happens
with Nick who's
the trombonist
we seem a bit
an issue one
but he becomes
a major character
and his family's
got their own
stuff going on
his community's got
their own issues
and they're
not the same

(47:33):
I mean they're
overlaps of course
in terms of
they're all
living in like
the poor part
of Toronto so
they have different
interpersonal
relations with
their communities
different goals
different values
in many cases
and so what
I want to do is
write a story
that is anti
tokenistic I
don't want a
story where
you have like
the this the
that the this

(47:54):
a story where
you have people
that relate
to their own
communities
you have multiple
characters from
that ethnic
or cultural
background something
that touches
on like those
histories in an
interesting way
in a meaningful way
in a way that's
unique to that
culture and
then find a
way through
the plot and
which sort of
forces people
to come together
and have the
interesting
cultural dynamics

(48:14):
of having people
from different
backgrounds
who you know
kind of grew up
in the same place
but they're not
really from
the same culture
uh to see how
they operate
if I can do
my own own for a
moment I do
think that's
the strength of
wardens over
some other stories
I'm really really
trying to get
a good cultural
representation
it's not just
that I mean
it's a character
driven story

(48:35):
uh practically
in terms of uh
representing
uh people's
from various
cultures I you know
I don't really
have too much
research aside
from my own
research like
for all the
Jewish stuff
my wife is Chinese
Canadian I spoke
a lot with her family
about some of
these things
in terms of
everything from
names to phrases
or specific
things that

(48:56):
people would do
work with a black
sensitivity
reader for some
of that stuff
and I'm sure
there's going
to be even more
of that as we go
along not just
sensitivity reader
but there's
a historian
in particular
who I need to
reach out to
for issue 3
as that stuff
becomes important
I'll keep that
my back pocket
we'll get to that
in a couple
years but just
doing the work

(49:16):
finding a way to
make the cultural
specificity
a part of the
character's
identity and not
just a thing
you throw in
there be like
look I know
a thing you know
like it has to
be meaningful
in some way
as you prepare
to launch wardens
on Kickstarter
what strategies
and lessons
from your previous
experiences
do you plan
on leveraging

(49:37):
to ensure a
successful campaign?
and when does
it start and
end as well
cause we haven't
talked about
it yet yeah
so I'll start
with that the
campaign begins
January 17th
it ends on February 9th
so 23 days not super long
but not super
short either
I don't want
to have this thing

(49:57):
being a thing
that just sort
of drags on
Kickstarter
campaigns and
notorious for
having a sort of
slow middle
period I want
to start strong
and I'm strong
that's the goal
from previous
campaigns one
thing I Learned
is that you
want to have
as much press
before or at
the beginning
because the two
strongest and
most active
part of a Kickstarter campaigns
beginning in the end
so you want
people ready
to go before

(50:18):
the campaign
starts been
sending out
things on my
mailing list
I've been putting
some stuff up
in my social media
and we'll be
doing a bit more
as we get closer
to the date
I wish I knew
how to run a
Kickstarter
campaign that
was less like
amazing campaign
that can do
everything well
what I've been
trying to do
for this is
reach into different
communities
than before
for awakening
it was largely
the indie comic
community but

(50:38):
with warrants
I realized the
people who will
be interested
are probably indie
comic creators
and probably
also Jewish
communities
so I reached
out to a lot
of places in
Toronto very
synagogues or Jewish
organizations
and I've been
speaking with
some of them
I'm actually
gonna speak
tomorrow at
there's a synagogue
in Kensington
Market think
a Jewish writers
Toronto were
putting out
an anthology of
stories the

(50:58):
guy said hey
why don't you
come along and
talk about your
thing as well
and I was like oh
it's perfect
you know so
email a bunch of
people sometimes
they'll email
back I mean
because it is
so sort of you
know culturally
specific and
Jewish focus
but not exclusively Jewish
there's a bit
of a natural
community that
you can talk
to about it
which helps
but also you know
I don't just
want it to be
like you know
like a Jewish
guy writing

(51:19):
stories for
other Jewish
people like
I do want this
to have a broader
cultural residence
it's trying
to find out
how to do that
which has been a learning
process sure
will continue to be
a learning process
so here's the
Kickstarter campaign
we'll go through
some of the
words first
and foremost
we've got the
digital comic
itself and the
physical comic
of course that's
the biggest reward
I hope people
actually get that
and read it

(51:39):
there's another
tier of rewards
that includes
five trading
cards and two
postcards if you
scroll down
a little bit
more you'll
you'll get there
is a whole big
thing that says
rewards and
there's a preview
pages I've got
lots of stuff
here on the
Kickstarter
so like there's
certainly not
for lack of
content so yeah
five trading

(51:59):
cards what I
did with my
last campaign
awakening is
I made trading
cards because I
I just like
the cards uh
they got a little
character BIOS
on the back
and some stuff
that's a little
different to
not in the comics
so that's fun
uh extra content
I figure is
always good
2 postcards
those are based off
images from the
comic itself
and putting a nice
standard postcard
template so
you can actually send them

(52:20):
if you know
how to send
a postcard because
mail is now
a thing that
people might
have to learn
I've got this
Mario and 3
inspired art
print that's
gonna be an
8 by 10 art
print inspired
by a drawing
of the booklet
art from Mario 3
it's got so
many characters
I love my artist
our next tier
we're having
that you can have
original character
designs done
by my artist
so that's me

(52:40):
uh editor and
the artist uh
the designs
he did for us
I think people
will probably
have a lot of
fun with this
if you're looking for
some original art
like a character
doing in a sort of 1920
style to fit
with the series
and the final
reward is gonna
be a draw in
for issue 2
so if you want
to be a part
of Warden's
issue 2 have
yourself as a
character in there
that's gonna

(53:01):
be the highest
tier that also
includes original
character art
so what my hope is
that people
want to have
an original piece of
character art
for themselves
and then we
can use that
character and then
plop them into
issue 2 and
I know exactly
where everyone's
going because
I have lots
of fun scenes
in mind for
people to be in
yeah there's
more than enough
information
on this Kickstarter
campaign to
answer hopefully

(53:21):
any of your
questions like
what is the
word or when
is this shipping
my goal is to
have this ship
pretty soon
after the campaign ends
I hope that
everyone gets
their books
by May June
at the latest
I don't like
keeping projects
lingering forever
the book is
currently almost
done uh there's

(53:41):
40 pages of
art have been
completed and
and lettered
like fully finalized
we're just working on
the last four pages
which will be
done during
the campaign
and I've done
the front matter
the back matter
the cover the
back cover like
all that is
required is
getting those
last pages in
doing once over
and then sending
to the printer
I'm printing
locally there's

(54:01):
a printer I
use here in
Toronto I just
go to the place
and get the stuff
and I'll just
ship everything out
from my house
again local
fulfillment
we're doing this on a
shoe store and
pretty come
is called blitz
I think they're
on Richmond
Street towards
in the east
I use them for
awakening and
I was very happy
with them we
have a bit of a
relationship
at this point
which makes
things even

(54:21):
better well
Well, I do
hate to say it
but that is
this particular
episode of cheeky
stalking I want
to thank you
so much for
coming back
on the show.
thank you so
much for having
me it's been
great chatting
with you and
everyone check
out wardens
if you're looking for
something that's
fun if you're
looking for
something that's
a different story
than probably
any other story
you've read
something that's a little
culturally specific

(54:42):
upbeat will
still dealing
with all the
deep character
emotions and
and wackiness
all the supernatural
stuff that gets
thrown into it
Warden's is
your jam I mean
it's my jam
and I hope it's
yours too the
work we find
it how can we
support you
everything like that
you can check
Warden's out
on Kickstarter
Warden's number
one I think
it's called
like Warden's
a supernatural action

(55:03):
comic series
I check it out
and Kickstarter
supported campaign
runs from the 17th
January 17th
to February 9th
we're doing
an early bird
for a few of
the tears so
get an early
and you'll save
a couple of bucks
pack it enjoy
nice well like I said
that is this particular episode of 2 geeks talking
you could of course

(55:23):
find this interview in a thousand plus others
quite literally on our website tgtmedia
com or 2 geeks talking
that's two websites going through a revamp
as it always is
so go to our YouTube channel
because that's a lot more updated
YouTube dot com forward slash TGT media
the podcast is back at 2 geeks talking dot pod bean.com

(55:44):
or just search 2 geeks talking
wherever you get your podcast
and as I say
every week everyone has a story to tell
it's up to me to help bring that out
thanks for listening
watching on to geeks talking