May 23, 2023 • 31 mins
In a captivating twist, Erin Davis (she / her) and Jade Pichette (they / them) turn the tables on themselves and ask each other the thought-provoking questions they usually reserve for their esteemed guests. In this episode, they open up about their serendipitous meeting, the spark that ignited their shared passion for exploring belonging, and the compelling reasons that led them to embark on this podcast. Unlock an exclusive and intimate glimpse into the lives of the show's co-hosts as they share their personal journeys and profound insights that shaped their journey toward creating Uncovering Belonging.
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Episode Transcript
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Erin Davis (she/her) (00:00):
This is great like just us talking through these barriers,
these challenges and some don't evenhave that safety to even be able to show
. Up and say I'm not having a good day.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (00:09):
Yeah.
And how many people have had to pretendthat they had some type of physical
illness when really they were justhaving some issues in their life
that required them to need a day offSometimes you just need a day off and
yet people will have to hide that fact.
I'm Jade Pichette.
(00:30):
They them
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:31):
and I Erin Davis and they use the pronouns.
She and her.
Jade Pichette (they/them): Welcome to uncovering belonging, (00:34):
undefined
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:36):
a podcast that explores the professional
and personal stories of
unique voices of what it means to belong
Jade Pichette (they/them) (00:42):
and the journey to finding our authentic self.
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:46):
This is an exciting episode for us because we are turning
the microphone on ourselves because Ithink we would be remiss if we didn't
share a little bit about our ownstory and how the podcast got started.
So, Jade, what do you remember aboutus first connecting so many years ago?
Jade Pichette (they/them): Yeah, so it was a (01:02):
undefined
Erin Davis (she/her) (01:05):
I think, 2019.
It was definitely pre-pandemic.
I I remember I had the opportunityto bring Pride at Work Canada out
to my home city of Edmonton andTreaty Six and host a ProPride event.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (01:18):
It was the first time that I was ever in Edmonton,
ever in Treaty 6 territory at all.
Erin Davis (she/her) (01:25):
Yeah
Jade Pichette (they/them) (01:25):
And you know, we got to really focus on family and
impact that family had in the workplace,which brought such joy, like there were
even kids, have kids at the event as well.
And I don't know, there's been anunderstanding between each other
that resulted in us being able tohave really good conversations and
(01:48):
just kind of riff off of each other
Erin Davis (she/her) (01:50):
And then, You know, you throw a little pandemic in the mix
and it became a lot easier for us toconnect . And I don't remember if it was
Jade or it was myself, but one of us said,"We should record our conversations."
, Jade Pichette (they/them) (02:03):
do things collaboratively instead of just kind
of doing our own projects on our ownbecause partnership is something that
brings so much more life and dynamics.
And it's meant that you've brought someof your networkthat is very much West
Coast based and I brought some lightnetworkthat's much more East Coast based.
But now we're not only justturning the mics on each other,
(02:26):
we're also doing it in person.-
Erin Davis (she/her) (02:29):
Yes, okay, that is also really a good point because we're
sitting here looking at each other as we
Record this and I'm having a bit of amoment of I feel more comfortable with
my computer screen front of me becausethat's the world that we have existed
in for the last two and a half years.
So it feels really great to be inToronto and being able to have this
(02:51):
conversation and I wanted to startwith that story today because often
in our work, we can get caught upin this idea of getting it right
or how do we go about doing this?
Jade Pichette (they/them) (03:02):
Yeah.
And we've made mistakes over thecourse of the podcast as well, in
terms of figuring out audio andfiguring out like, how do we record?
How do we invite people?
You know, we both had those relationshipsand those networks, we had both done
public speaking, but, regardless, Ithink we both entered into a space that
(03:22):
was new to both of us and that, was achallenge and thank goodness for people
like our production assistant Connor.
Erin Davis (she/her) (03:29):
Yes, absolutely.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (03:30):
And our editor Shawn, who's actually
sitting or standing with us in theroom today for kind of guiding us
along part of that journey as well.
And even though I think we're doing reallywell with the podcast, we've made tons of
mistakes along the way, but that didn'tstop us from creating to begin with.
Erin Davis (she/her) (03:50):
Absolutely.
Well, with that , let'sget into the questions.
And the first one is not anydifferent than we've asked our
guests who've been on the podcast.
tell us about your story,
Jade Pichette (they/them) (04:01):
So for me, I got into this type of work in terms
of equity, diversity, and inclusion,not by direction, not by intention,
but by happenstance more than anything.
You know, when I was a teenager, Ihad come out as trans and back in
(04:22):
the early 2000s, that, especiallyin Ottawa, that was rare.
I didn't know a single other transteenager, these days, you know,
there are trans teens everywhere,even in small towns, which shocks
me warms my heart to such degree.
But for me there really wasn't that.
And so I ended up on a email listservand found trans youth group on
(04:48):
there, and they had never met.
It had only ever existed as a virtualplatform, but there was some willingness
and interest for people to get together.
And so I ended up suggesting acafe that I was really comfortable
with and invited people to meet up.
And so we we have this firstmeeting originally of just five of
(05:09):
us that then grew into an ongoinggroup called Trans Youth Ottawa.
I never intended that group to go intoand start becoming the expert and doing
trainings and things of this nature,but that's what ended up happening.
So we certainly had the support groupside but it was really, it showcased
(05:30):
for us that, we could have a spacethat was inclusive, that was welcoming,
that brought us together, that broughtus connection, and brought that for
me in particular, but that wasn'tthe case in the rest of the world.-
Erin Davis (she/her) (05:43):
Right.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (05:44):
You know,anywhere else that we went,
especially services, that we neededhealthcare, was not inclusive.
And so, really, we started to dotrainings, and I started to do
trainings with different employers,with different service providers,
and really just the basics of whoare trans people, how can you be
(06:04):
inclusive towards us, and really triedto start with some of that discussion
that frankly had not been happening.
Erin Davis (she/her) (06:11):
Yeah
Jade Pichette (they/them) (06:12):
And so that's how I started on this journey, and
eventually I decided I wanted to go intosocial work because I had started in
political science and found that no oneelse in political science at the time
seemed to care about other human beings.
And that was my main focus of why Iwas interested in politics was not
(06:33):
just the geekery of like policy andhow power interacts in the world,
which is frankly of interest of mine.
But instead, I really wanted todo that because of the fact that I
wanted to make a change in the world.
And so I saw that as apossibility within social work.
And so within social work, I ended upworking at a youth treatment center, I did
(06:56):
youth mental health outreach, and that'sreally where I was starting to find my
sense of belonging was through doing workwithin my community and for my community.
I didn't want to do that long term.
That wasn't my focus long term.
I really had thought about goinginto private practice of some
sort I wasn't quite sure . Thatjourney would lead me in the end.
(07:19):
But then I ended up at a verycontroversial institution, being the
Ottawa Police and their diversityand race relations division, which I
now no longer am very supportive ofpolice and that's an issue that people
can have many different feelings on.
But I would not work with themthem today, but at the time
it was the option that I had.
(07:40):
And so I really started to see theworld of EDI when I was there because
it was EDI department that I was in.
And so I did that and then reallyfrom there said, "Okay, this isn't
going to be what I'm gonna do.
I'm not gonna do this EDI thing.
Erin Davis (she/her) (07:58):
Right.
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (07:59):
And instead went on and did my Master's in Social
Work and then couldn't find work.
I couldn't find work with my Master's,actually had to take my Master's off of
my resume to start getting callbacks.
Erin Davis (she/her) (08:11):
Wow.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (08:11):
Because nobody wanted to hire a trans person,
let alone a trans feminine one.
And...
really just tried to find whateverI could find and eventually I did
find a job at The Archives, which isCanada's largest 2SLGBTQIA+ archive
and one of the largest in the world.
And I was working as a volunteeringcommunity outreach coordinator,
(08:34):
did that for a few years.
I was still passionate because Iwas still serving my community and
that was what was important to me.
And then when I finished there,though, I kind of said, "Okay, I'm not
going to do community work anymore.
I'm going to move on.
I'm going to do something else."
And then almost four and a halfyears later, here I am.Here
you are doing community work.
At Pride at Work Canada,still doing community work.
(08:56):
And having found some sense of belongingin the work that I do because , at
Pride at Work Canada we create thatspace for our staff because if we
can't create it for our staff howcan we encourage it in the world?
Erin Davis (she/her) (09:09):
Isn't it interesting to think about this thread
of, community throughout your entirestory that you just shared either
creating it on your own, becauseit didn't exist, or entering into a
community to help support others as well.
And so maybe, you aren't directlydoing the social work, as it were,
but you kind are in an indirect, wayand that call to service , right?
Jade Pichette (they/them) (09:32):
And that's something that I feel very strongly
about is that, is that word the wordservice, in my bio, I will always
put serves this is something thatI've been doing for a very long time.
And it's a subtle little thing butbecause of the fact that I do see
myself as being in service to communitybecause there is so much need.-
Erin Davis (she/her) (09:53):
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them): And it's what fills me. (09:54):
undefined
You know, I will have a morefull cup if I know I've left the
world even a little bit better
Erin Davis (she/her) (10:03):
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them): You know, a lot to me. (10:03):
undefined
Erin Davis (she/her) (10:06):
It's a powerful thing and I think that that brings
up a lot of, you know, emotions forme in terms of the world in which we
currently exist in and this juxtapositionthat I sort of witness where it's not
necessarily everyone's bottom line.
Yet we can hear these stories, and Ihear your story about how connected
you are to community and service tohelp others, especially those who may
(10:27):
have gone through similar experiencesbecause you know how important that is
for dare I say, like survival for some.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (10:33):
Yeah, it's very real that it is about survival because
for many people they don't have supportsor they don't have inclusive work.
And we know that that hasone of the biggest impacts on
ability to access health care.
We know that has one of the biggestimpacts in terms of well-being
and sense of purpose in life.
(10:55):
so . Not to say that everybodywork is going to be their central
thing, and I don't necessarilyeven think it needs to be, but it
often has to be without our choice.
And so if it's not our choice wehave to be finding that sense of
purpose through work instead of otherthings, then at least we should have a
welcoming space, a place that we feellike we're making a difference in a
(11:18):
positive way, even if that's small.
And that can be a lot ofdifferent things, right?
Like I think that a marinebiologist is doing a lot of
positive things for the world.
A computer programmer might be programmingsome really important software, you know,
doesn't have to look any specific way.
I see that with you as well inthe work that you do and so I want
(11:41):
to throw it back at you in termsof how you got into this work.
Erin Davis (she/her) (11:45):
Thanks for that.
For me, I've gotten to this placewhere I can't not do the work.
So if I think back to the beginningof my story, I guess I'll be honest
and say sometimes I give myselfa hard time because it doesn't
necessarily go back to my childhood.
I was an average kid.
I loved music.
I was in band.
It's hilarious for many peopleknow that I went to band camp.
(12:07):
I graduated with a Bachelor of Arts andI started working in the corporate world.
And the first part of my journey inthe corporate world, was pretty good.
I would take on a role, Iwould learn it, I would master
it, and then I would move on.
I sort of had this repetition ofevery two to three years taking on
a new role, a new responsibility.
(12:29):
I know now that that's my connectionto curiosity, that I'm always
wanting to learn and understand more,but I hit the proverbial ceiling.
And so about 10 years into my career,I started to apply for more senior
level jobs, and I wasn't getting them.
And, you know, you can take from thatwhat what you want, you know, maybe I was
not the most qualified in that position.
(12:50):
But that's when I startedto become a bit more curious
about diversity and inclusion.
That's we called it back in theday it's gone through a few more
iterations I was asked to be on adiversity and inclusion committee.
And through that curiosity and throughsome conversations, I accepted.
I went on committee and startedto read and do all this research
around what is a glass ceiling.
(13:12):
and , here we are, you know, 15 yearslater, and we still see representative
numbers that women are not moving intoany roles that sort of yield as much power
as straight white men continue to hold
but I also want to share with our audiencethis comment that I got from someone
about, "You know, Erin, you're goingto do well in this world because you're
(13:34):
a woman and you're a woman of color."
And I got that comment like 15years ago, and I was like, " What
are you talking about?"
And so I took it upon myself to reallyunderstand, this comment that I'm going
to do really well in my career, yet I'mnot getting these higher level positions.
And so it led me to apathway of curiosity again.
(13:55):
I was doing strategic planning atthe time and went to a different
organization because I didn't think Icould sort of succeed in the quote-unquote
male-dominated industry that I was in,although I went into another one, I
went into the space of engineering andcontinued to ask questions about what
diversity inclusion meant And this is atime when people weren't measuring it.
And my background wasin strategic planning.
(14:16):
And I was like, okay, weneed to figure this out.
If you're going to have conversationswith your board of directors on how how
we're more money for the organization,meeting our financial targets, how we're
doing around health and safety and makingsure that everyone goes home safely.
Well, we better figure out whatit means to create a more diverse
and inclusive organization.
So that was my winding pathway toeventually taking on the role to
(14:38):
lead diversity and inclusion ina large, global organization, and
I did that for a number of years.
And then honestly, I feltlike I got to a place where I
couldn't make any more change.
For me, I operated in the Department of. Human Resources in an engineering firm
as a support service to the business,and I couldn't impact any more change.
(15:00):
So I went into the nonprofit side ofthe world and started to learn about the
really great research that Catalyst does.
I worked with them for a number of yearsand so did that and, got to point of more
curiosity and it started my own business.
But I share all of that and tie it backto this idea of belonging because I don't
know if I ever had a sense of belonging inany of those workplaces belonging to me
(15:23):
was created when I started my own business
Jade Pichette (they/them) (15:27):
that really, kind of winding journey to
get you to that place is somethingthat many people go through.
Erin Davis (she/her) (15:34):
Hm-hmm.
Yep..
Jade Pichette (they/them) (15:34):
It's usually those almost aha moments when
somebody says something that sometimesis an inside voice conversation-
Erin Davis (she/her) (15:43):
Yeah.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (15:44):
that then ends up having this internal
impact in yourself and saying, " Oh,so that's how I'm perceived."
Erin Davis (she/her) (15:53):
-Mm-hmm.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (15:54):
-And sometimes it takes that moment
for a recognition of why younever felt like one of the people.
Erin Davis (she/her) (16:03):
-Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (16:03):
Like, there wasn't quite that sense and
you wanted it to be there, but therewas just something missing and you
couldn't put your finger on it.
And so think that both of ourstories bring kind of those
different angles to where do wefind the impetus to create change.
Erin Davis (she/her) (16:24):
Yep
Jade Pichette (they/them): And to build change. (16:24):
undefined
And I don't think there'sany one story for that.
And I don't think there's any one pointthat we have to have figured that out.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (16:34):
Right.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (16:34):
Like I think if we figure that out
in our teens, that's great.
I think if we figure that outin our 80s, that's also great.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (16:41):
Yes, yeah.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (16:42):
You know, and it's giving that space for time to
develop and for us to figure out thesedifferent pieces of ourselves as well,
'cause sometimes it takes time whenit comes to those pieces of ourselves
and when we want to even show thosepieces, because there are certain
things that we don't have a choice inwhether they're being shown or not.
(17:03):
And so I know for myself, this wasvery much around, I don't really
have a choice about being perceivedas a trans person because, hello.
But I did have a choice about whetherI was being perceived disabled
or not, at least I thought I did.
And that part of myself I hid formany years and didn't really have my
(17:28):
aha moment until my 30s to actuallystart making that type of change.
So I think that we all find ourselvesin different points in that journey.
And heard many challenges along theway in terms of, you know, you really
just wanting them to create that space.
You wanting to be able to showthose pieces of yourselves.
(17:49):
And I think, that's a huge part of whyour podcast exists is this idea that we
want the organizations to change becausewe believe in capacity for change.
Erin Davis (she/her) (18:02):
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (18:02):
We believe in capacity for creating these spaces
but it is on the employer, it is onthe people that are creating a space
build that and to also take the momentsto say, I don't know the answer here,
so I'm going to bring in an expert.
Erin Davis (she/her) (18:18):
Totally.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (18:19):
And now you're one of those experts.
Erin Davis (she/her) (18:21):
Yes yeah, I sum it up to this idea of humility
that us as individuals need tohave because there's no way that we
possibly can understand, everything.
And we have to have humility thatwe might not always get it right
because we are constantly learning.
And also are we not constantly evolvingin terms of understanding who we are?
(18:42):
Because for the first part of my career,I really showed up in an inauthentic way.
I showed up in how I perceivedsuccess to look like.
And I often tell the story aboutthose first 10 years of my career
and the one time I cried at workbecause you don't cry at work.
You don't show emotion at work.
You show up in a robotic-likemanner and you get the job done.
(19:06):
And so I was embarrassedthat I was crying at work.
I happened to be seven months pregnantat the time and probably fairly hormonal
and my mentor was sharing with me thatthey were leaving the organization.
So there was sort of anaccumulation of emotions happening.
But the fact that I was embarrassedto show that emotion at work really
(19:26):
taught me upon reflection, not in themoment, that I wasn't able to be my
authentic self, that I wasn't ableto show the true me in these spaces.
I'm now in a space of beingable to be my authentic self
and show emotion and show up.
But , I don't think everyonecan show up that way at all
Jade Pichette (they/them) (19:45):
I don't think it's safe for everybody to.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (19:47):
Yeah.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (19:48):
Is like reality and I wish it was safe or,
and I mean, this is again, why we'redoing this, we believe in this work,
is we want people to have that safety.
But sometimes the safest optionis not showing parts of yourself.
Erin Davis (she/her) (20:03):
Mm-hmm.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (20:03):
And that need for safety comes before a need
for belonging at the end of the day.
You know, it's the hierarchy of needs.
And really that sense of safety iswhat grounds us into whether we're
able to approach a sense of belongingand that has been the case in my
(20:23):
career as well where I've had momentswhere I knew that if I was completely
honest and completely myself.
I got written up and written up as havingissues with my communication style when
really what that was was me showing up andbeing authentic when I would get angry
Erin Davis (she/her) (20:42):
right
Jade Pichette (they/them) (20:43):
I would get angry because people would do
something that was racist or homophobicor transphobic or sexist often sexist
and that anger was real and it washeartfelt felt that there were so
many times where I'd have to quashmy anger or hide my anger because
I knew how it would be received.
And I know that, we have differentimplications as a society around,
(21:07):
, sadness and anger, but really at the endof the day they're both human emotions
that we should be able to show at work.
And you know, different if thatis causing harm to another person,
but somebody just having an emotionisn't causing harm to another person.
And so we need to be ableto create space for that.
And I want to share maybemy last crying story at work.
(21:31):
And it actually was in this job,but it wasn't about this job.
there were some personalthings going on in my life.
I was really, really struggling and Ihad decided to come into the office on
a Friday afternoon because I thoughtnobody would be here and I would just
have the space to myself to just likework and ground and just do my own thing.
(21:51):
And one of my co-workers was hereand I didn't expect to see him
and he was like, "Are you okay?"
And so just was like, " No."
- Yeah.
- And that's why I'm here.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (22:02):
Yeah.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:02):
But I will be.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (22:03):
Yes.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:04):
And I started to cry a little bit and then
I went to my office, I spent time bymyself and just like bawled a little
bit, but I felt so supported and Ifelt like I belonged to such a deep
degree because there was both a humanempathy that came out from my coworker,
(22:25):
but also there was no expectation
Erin Davis (she/her) (22:29):
-Yes
Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:30):
-With that.
There was no, oh my gods, are you okay?
Like what's wrong?
I need to fix this for you right nowsomething along those lines it was
just a genuine human connection.-
Erin Davis (she/her) (22:41):
Yes.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:41):
And then when I didn't need anything from this
person at the time, that was enough.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (22:46):
Yeah
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:47):
And so a space of true belonging includes being
able to cry at work and being okay.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (22:52):
Absolutely.
This is great like just us talkingthrough these barriers, these
challenges and some don't even havethat safety to even be able to show
. Up and say I'm not having a good day.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (23:03):
Yeah
And how many people have had to pretendthat they had some type of physical
illness when really they were justhaving some Issues in their life
that required them to need a day offSometimes you just need a day off and
yet people will have to hide that fact.
They'll have to hide why they're needinga day and put it as some type of physical
(23:24):
illness because that way it's seen aslegitimate within the working world.
Erin Davis (she/her) (23:29):
Yeah.
That's a really good point and itdoesn't have to mean sharing every
piece of that, but just being okay tophone in and say like, "I need a day."
And having learned thatlesson during the pandemic
I wonder is the pendulum swinging back
Jade Pichette (they/them) (23:41):
I mean, I would hope not, but I
think the answer is otherwise.
We're definitely at a place where thependulum is swinging again towards
needing to fake how you're doing.
' Cause the reality is for mostpeople, most people aren't okay.
Like even the people who are kind ofokay, they're still not okay Because
(24:04):
there has been so much grief, so muchdisconnection, so much, challenges,
and that could be an economicreason, that could be a health
reason, that could be loss.
But we're all very tired.
I haven't spoken to a single personrecently who's like, oh yeah, I'm
truly energized and just raring togo right in a way that I think used
(24:27):
to be sometimes the case for people.
But we're all just coming outof this time of pandemic and
isolation with challenges.
And so I see us swinging back tothis fakeness where we're covering
how we're actually feeling.
. Erin Davis (she/her): I feel that energy too.
It makes me nervous
(24:47):
. It makes me think about how can we not just get to a place of
accepting what it means to be human,and , being able to say, like, I
can only show up at 80% today, butI'm going to give 100% of that 80%.
And that's okay.
So, what do we tell Our listenersabout this post-pandemic world?
(25:08):
I really think that we need to
continue some of the lessons thatwe learned during the pandemic.
In terms of flexibility of work, interms of accessibility, all of which
seemed to be dwindling fading away.
and, you know, not the hyperproductivity, which I know is
a topic that both of us want
to do a bit more of a deepdive on later, but this idea
(25:31):
that we always have to be busy
Erin Davis (she/her) (25:33):
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (25:34):
And almost want to challenge this
idea of even showing up at 80%.
Like, is work 80% of your life?
No.
So why are you showing up at 80%?
Erin Davis (she/her) (25:44):
Totally.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (25:45):
If that's not 80% of your life, you have
much more within your life to give.
And so I think that if we actuallytook a moment to pause, say, what did
we learn over the last three years?
What fed me as an individual?
What fed people on my team what reallybrought us that sense that we were in
(26:08):
this together and let's bring it back.
Let's not lose it.
Erin Davis (she/her) (26:12):
Yeah.
I love that.
And there are so many lessons that Ithink we did learn and we've lost that.
back to the transactional, how manymeetings can we fit into a day?
How many conversations can we have?
, you know, we're still scheduling meetingsback to back, but all of a sudden we have
to incorporate travel time into there.
So I think my encouragement foranyone listening to this is hold
(26:34):
the space for what works for you.
Share that with your colleague, share thatwith your manager, have the conversation.
And if it doesn't go in thedirection you need it to go, then
maybe that isn't the place in whichyou can have that true belonging.
And I'm hopeful that our listenersreally can have and spark good
dialogue on what it means showup a workplace and truly belong.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (26:58):
Agreed
Erin Davis (she/her) (26:59):
So you know, drum roll however we want to do this.
Cue the music.
Let's do the rapid fire..
I will kickstart us askingfor your book recommendation.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:13):
So my one book would be Care Work, Dreaming Disability
Justice by and I think it really fits
into the conversation that we'vebeen having today what about you?
Erin Davis (she/her) (27:27):
Rules are made to be broken.
So I'm going to give two
.the first From the Ashes by Jesse Thistle, the second one Unbound by Steph Jagger,
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:36):
Wonderful.
And so what brings you joy no matter what?
Erin Davis (she/her) (27:40):
I love to Take photographs and so if I have
my camera at hand and just capturingthat moment, it always brings me joy.
What about
you?
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:50):
Cute dog.
So if you take any photos of cutedogs, please send them my way.
Erin Davis (she/her) (27:56):
Okay.
I might have a few of those.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:58):
have one in particular, which is my dog,
Apollo, who is the best cuddler of dog
I've ever met.
He is a great little spoondespite being 100 pounds.
Erin Davis (she/her) (28:09):
I love that.
. So this
is the question that always tripsme up with our guests, because
I don't know how they do it, butwhat's your theme song for today?
, Jade Pichette (they/them) (28:19):
I'm going to go with Grammy Award
winner Lizzo's " About Down Time,"which I highly recommend the song if
you haven't heard it What about yourself?
, Erin Davis (she/her): I will confess that
I was looking through my Spotify and liketrying to figure it out, but you know what
really caught my attention?
Simply
the Best, Tina Turner.
And I think when I was little, Iused to sing the best of the best.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (28:42):
Well, that's simply the best answer.
Erin Davis (she/her) (28:44):
Thank you.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (28:45):
And who is somebody who inspires you in how
they create belonging doesn't receive
enough credit?
Erin Davis (she/her) (28:51):
I want to give a shout out to my partner who helps me find
that sense of belonging every single day.
So thank you, Clayton.
But the reason I also sharethat is because I want that to
be sort of a universal thank
you to all the partners, toindividuals who are doing D&I
work in this world, because
it's not easy.
It's hard.
You come home and thereare stories to tell.
And I hope that you have someonethat you can share that with
(29:14):
in your life because that
support so needed.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (29:17):
Yeah, my partner, Daya, definitely gets to hear
a few stories that I wouldn't tell toanybody else and very, very grateful for.
There's
somebody else, though, that Iwanted to kind of shout out,
which is Chanel Gallant, who
is a white anti-racist advocate.
She is a sex worker rightsadvocate and really is one
(29:37):
one of my heroes, howeveryou want to say it.
But she's my answer for today.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (29:43):
I love it.
Well, last question, whatis one call to action
that you have for our listeners?
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (29:50):
For me, I really wanna encourage people
to consider self-accommodation.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (29:56):
Right.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (29:57):
And this is something that as like a disabled person
certainly has certain implications,
like, do I bring my cane
or do I not bring my cane?
But it also has other implications.
Like, two years ago,
I would not have worn ahead to toe pink suit.
You know, like I would not havedone that because I would not
consider it professional enough.
Erin Davis (she/her) (30:17):
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them): But did it today. (30:17):
undefined
and happy about it.
So that's the thing that I reallythink that people need to consider
is how do you accommodate yourself
and how do you create the world to be moreaccessible and welcoming for yourself?
Erin Davis (she/her) (30:31):
I will attest to Jade's amazing outfit today,
head to toe, pink, andthey are rocking it.
I'll share my call to action.
To everyone
listening keep learning.
and in that process, identifywhat is that one small action?
What is
that one key piece of learning?
When you listen to that podcast,when you read that book, when
(30:54):
you watch that show that hasan intersectional lens that you
can share with someone else,
keep the conversation going.
This is great like just us talking through these barriers,
these challenges and some don't evenhave that safety to even be able to show
. Up and say I'm not having a good day.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (00:09):
Yeah.
And how many people have had to pretendthat they had some type of physical
illness when really they were justhaving some issues in their life
that required them to need a day offSometimes you just need a day off and
yet people will have to hide that fact.
I'm Jade Pichette.
(00:30):
They them
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:31):
and I Erin Davis and they use the pronouns.
She and her.
Jade Pichette (they/them): Welcome to uncovering belonging, (00:34):
undefined
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:36):
a podcast that explores the professional
and personal stories of
unique voices of what it means to belong
Jade Pichette (they/them) (00:42):
and the journey to finding our authentic self.
Erin Davis (she/her) (00:46):
This is an exciting episode for us because we are turning
the microphone on ourselves because Ithink we would be remiss if we didn't
share a little bit about our ownstory and how the podcast got started.
So, Jade, what do you remember aboutus first connecting so many years ago?
Jade Pichette (they/them): Yeah, so it was a (01:02):
undefined
Erin Davis (she/her) (01:05):
I think, 2019.
It was definitely pre-pandemic.
I I remember I had the opportunityto bring Pride at Work Canada out
to my home city of Edmonton andTreaty Six and host a ProPride event.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (01:18):
It was the first time that I was ever in Edmonton,
ever in Treaty 6 territory at all.
Erin Davis (she/her) (01:25):
Yeah
Jade Pichette (they/them) (01:25):
And you know, we got to really focus on family and
impact that family had in the workplace,which brought such joy, like there were
even kids, have kids at the event as well.
And I don't know, there's been anunderstanding between each other
that resulted in us being able tohave really good conversations and
(01:48):
just kind of riff off of each other
Erin Davis (she/her) (01:50):
And then, You know, you throw a little pandemic in the mix
and it became a lot easier for us toconnect . And I don't remember if it was
Jade or it was myself, but one of us said,"We should record our conversations."
, Jade Pichette (they/them) (02:03):
do things collaboratively instead of just kind
of doing our own projects on our ownbecause partnership is something that
brings so much more life and dynamics.
And it's meant that you've brought someof your networkthat is very much West
Coast based and I brought some lightnetworkthat's much more East Coast based.
But now we're not only justturning the mics on each other,
(02:26):
we're also doing it in person.-
Erin Davis (she/her) (02:29):
Yes, okay, that is also really a good point because we're
sitting here looking at each other as we
Record this and I'm having a bit of amoment of I feel more comfortable with
my computer screen front of me becausethat's the world that we have existed
in for the last two and a half years.
So it feels really great to be inToronto and being able to have this
(02:51):
conversation and I wanted to startwith that story today because often
in our work, we can get caught upin this idea of getting it right
or how do we go about doing this?
Jade Pichette (they/them) (03:02):
Yeah.
And we've made mistakes over thecourse of the podcast as well, in
terms of figuring out audio andfiguring out like, how do we record?
How do we invite people?
You know, we both had those relationshipsand those networks, we had both done
public speaking, but, regardless, Ithink we both entered into a space that
(03:22):
was new to both of us and that, was achallenge and thank goodness for people
like our production assistant Connor.
Erin Davis (she/her) (03:29):
Yes, absolutely.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (03:30):
And our editor Shawn, who's actually
sitting or standing with us in theroom today for kind of guiding us
along part of that journey as well.
And even though I think we're doing reallywell with the podcast, we've made tons of
mistakes along the way, but that didn'tstop us from creating to begin with.
Erin Davis (she/her) (03:50):
Absolutely.
Well, with that , let'sget into the questions.
And the first one is not anydifferent than we've asked our
guests who've been on the podcast.
tell us about your story,
Jade Pichette (they/them) (04:01):
So for me, I got into this type of work in terms
of equity, diversity, and inclusion,not by direction, not by intention,
but by happenstance more than anything.
You know, when I was a teenager, Ihad come out as trans and back in
(04:22):
the early 2000s, that, especiallyin Ottawa, that was rare.
I didn't know a single other transteenager, these days, you know,
there are trans teens everywhere,even in small towns, which shocks
me warms my heart to such degree.
But for me there really wasn't that.
And so I ended up on a email listservand found trans youth group on
(04:48):
there, and they had never met.
It had only ever existed as a virtualplatform, but there was some willingness
and interest for people to get together.
And so I ended up suggesting acafe that I was really comfortable
with and invited people to meet up.
And so we we have this firstmeeting originally of just five of
(05:09):
us that then grew into an ongoinggroup called Trans Youth Ottawa.
I never intended that group to go intoand start becoming the expert and doing
trainings and things of this nature,but that's what ended up happening.
So we certainly had the support groupside but it was really, it showcased
(05:30):
for us that, we could have a spacethat was inclusive, that was welcoming,
that brought us together, that broughtus connection, and brought that for
me in particular, but that wasn'tthe case in the rest of the world.-
Erin Davis (she/her) (05:43):
Right.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (05:44):
You know,anywhere else that we went,
especially services, that we neededhealthcare, was not inclusive.
And so, really, we started to dotrainings, and I started to do
trainings with different employers,with different service providers,
and really just the basics of whoare trans people, how can you be
(06:04):
inclusive towards us, and really triedto start with some of that discussion
that frankly had not been happening.
Erin Davis (she/her) (06:11):
Yeah
Jade Pichette (they/them) (06:12):
And so that's how I started on this journey, and
eventually I decided I wanted to go intosocial work because I had started in
political science and found that no oneelse in political science at the time
seemed to care about other human beings.
And that was my main focus of why Iwas interested in politics was not
(06:33):
just the geekery of like policy andhow power interacts in the world,
which is frankly of interest of mine.
But instead, I really wanted todo that because of the fact that I
wanted to make a change in the world.
And so I saw that as apossibility within social work.
And so within social work, I ended upworking at a youth treatment center, I did
(06:56):
youth mental health outreach, and that'sreally where I was starting to find my
sense of belonging was through doing workwithin my community and for my community.
I didn't want to do that long term.
That wasn't my focus long term.
I really had thought about goinginto private practice of some
sort I wasn't quite sure . Thatjourney would lead me in the end.
(07:19):
But then I ended up at a verycontroversial institution, being the
Ottawa Police and their diversityand race relations division, which I
now no longer am very supportive ofpolice and that's an issue that people
can have many different feelings on.
But I would not work with themthem today, but at the time
it was the option that I had.
(07:40):
And so I really started to see theworld of EDI when I was there because
it was EDI department that I was in.
And so I did that and then reallyfrom there said, "Okay, this isn't
going to be what I'm gonna do.
I'm not gonna do this EDI thing.
Erin Davis (she/her) (07:58):
Right.
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (07:59):
And instead went on and did my Master's in Social
Work and then couldn't find work.
I couldn't find work with my Master's,actually had to take my Master's off of
my resume to start getting callbacks.
Erin Davis (she/her) (08:11):
Wow.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (08:11):
Because nobody wanted to hire a trans person,
let alone a trans feminine one.
And...
really just tried to find whateverI could find and eventually I did
find a job at The Archives, which isCanada's largest 2SLGBTQIA+ archive
and one of the largest in the world.
And I was working as a volunteeringcommunity outreach coordinator,
(08:34):
did that for a few years.
I was still passionate because Iwas still serving my community and
that was what was important to me.
And then when I finished there,though, I kind of said, "Okay, I'm not
going to do community work anymore.
I'm going to move on.
I'm going to do something else."
And then almost four and a halfyears later, here I am.Here
you are doing community work.
At Pride at Work Canada,still doing community work.
(08:56):
And having found some sense of belongingin the work that I do because , at
Pride at Work Canada we create thatspace for our staff because if we
can't create it for our staff howcan we encourage it in the world?
Erin Davis (she/her) (09:09):
Isn't it interesting to think about this thread
of, community throughout your entirestory that you just shared either
creating it on your own, becauseit didn't exist, or entering into a
community to help support others as well.
And so maybe, you aren't directlydoing the social work, as it were,
but you kind are in an indirect, wayand that call to service , right?
Jade Pichette (they/them) (09:32):
And that's something that I feel very strongly
about is that, is that word the wordservice, in my bio, I will always
put serves this is something thatI've been doing for a very long time.
And it's a subtle little thing butbecause of the fact that I do see
myself as being in service to communitybecause there is so much need.-
Erin Davis (she/her) (09:53):
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them): And it's what fills me. (09:54):
undefined
You know, I will have a morefull cup if I know I've left the
world even a little bit better
Erin Davis (she/her) (10:03):
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them): You know, a lot to me. (10:03):
undefined
Erin Davis (she/her) (10:06):
It's a powerful thing and I think that that brings
up a lot of, you know, emotions forme in terms of the world in which we
currently exist in and this juxtapositionthat I sort of witness where it's not
necessarily everyone's bottom line.
Yet we can hear these stories, and Ihear your story about how connected
you are to community and service tohelp others, especially those who may
(10:27):
have gone through similar experiencesbecause you know how important that is
for dare I say, like survival for some.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (10:33):
Yeah, it's very real that it is about survival because
for many people they don't have supportsor they don't have inclusive work.
And we know that that hasone of the biggest impacts on
ability to access health care.
We know that has one of the biggestimpacts in terms of well-being
and sense of purpose in life.
(10:55):
so . Not to say that everybodywork is going to be their central
thing, and I don't necessarilyeven think it needs to be, but it
often has to be without our choice.
And so if it's not our choice wehave to be finding that sense of
purpose through work instead of otherthings, then at least we should have a
welcoming space, a place that we feellike we're making a difference in a
(11:18):
positive way, even if that's small.
And that can be a lot ofdifferent things, right?
Like I think that a marinebiologist is doing a lot of
positive things for the world.
A computer programmer might be programmingsome really important software, you know,
doesn't have to look any specific way.
I see that with you as well inthe work that you do and so I want
(11:41):
to throw it back at you in termsof how you got into this work.
Erin Davis (she/her) (11:45):
Thanks for that.
For me, I've gotten to this placewhere I can't not do the work.
So if I think back to the beginningof my story, I guess I'll be honest
and say sometimes I give myselfa hard time because it doesn't
necessarily go back to my childhood.
I was an average kid.
I loved music.
I was in band.
It's hilarious for many peopleknow that I went to band camp.
(12:07):
I graduated with a Bachelor of Arts andI started working in the corporate world.
And the first part of my journey inthe corporate world, was pretty good.
I would take on a role, Iwould learn it, I would master
it, and then I would move on.
I sort of had this repetition ofevery two to three years taking on
a new role, a new responsibility.
(12:29):
I know now that that's my connectionto curiosity, that I'm always
wanting to learn and understand more,but I hit the proverbial ceiling.
And so about 10 years into my career,I started to apply for more senior
level jobs, and I wasn't getting them.
And, you know, you can take from thatwhat what you want, you know, maybe I was
not the most qualified in that position.
(12:50):
But that's when I startedto become a bit more curious
about diversity and inclusion.
That's we called it back in theday it's gone through a few more
iterations I was asked to be on adiversity and inclusion committee.
And through that curiosity and throughsome conversations, I accepted.
I went on committee and startedto read and do all this research
around what is a glass ceiling.
(13:12):
and , here we are, you know, 15 yearslater, and we still see representative
numbers that women are not moving intoany roles that sort of yield as much power
as straight white men continue to hold
but I also want to share with our audiencethis comment that I got from someone
about, "You know, Erin, you're goingto do well in this world because you're
(13:34):
a woman and you're a woman of color."
And I got that comment like 15years ago, and I was like, " What
are you talking about?"
And so I took it upon myself to reallyunderstand, this comment that I'm going
to do really well in my career, yet I'mnot getting these higher level positions.
And so it led me to apathway of curiosity again.
(13:55):
I was doing strategic planning atthe time and went to a different
organization because I didn't think Icould sort of succeed in the quote-unquote
male-dominated industry that I was in,although I went into another one, I
went into the space of engineering andcontinued to ask questions about what
diversity inclusion meant And this is atime when people weren't measuring it.
And my background wasin strategic planning.
(14:16):
And I was like, okay, weneed to figure this out.
If you're going to have conversationswith your board of directors on how how
we're more money for the organization,meeting our financial targets, how we're
doing around health and safety and makingsure that everyone goes home safely.
Well, we better figure out whatit means to create a more diverse
and inclusive organization.
So that was my winding pathway toeventually taking on the role to
(14:38):
lead diversity and inclusion ina large, global organization, and
I did that for a number of years.
And then honestly, I feltlike I got to a place where I
couldn't make any more change.
For me, I operated in the Department of. Human Resources in an engineering firm
as a support service to the business,and I couldn't impact any more change.
(15:00):
So I went into the nonprofit side ofthe world and started to learn about the
really great research that Catalyst does.
I worked with them for a number of yearsand so did that and, got to point of more
curiosity and it started my own business.
But I share all of that and tie it backto this idea of belonging because I don't
know if I ever had a sense of belonging inany of those workplaces belonging to me
(15:23):
was created when I started my own business
Jade Pichette (they/them) (15:27):
that really, kind of winding journey to
get you to that place is somethingthat many people go through.
Erin Davis (she/her) (15:34):
Hm-hmm.
Yep..
Jade Pichette (they/them) (15:34):
It's usually those almost aha moments when
somebody says something that sometimesis an inside voice conversation-
Erin Davis (she/her) (15:43):
Yeah.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (15:44):
that then ends up having this internal
impact in yourself and saying, " Oh,so that's how I'm perceived."
Erin Davis (she/her) (15:53):
-Mm-hmm.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (15:54):
-And sometimes it takes that moment
for a recognition of why younever felt like one of the people.
Erin Davis (she/her) (16:03):
-Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (16:03):
Like, there wasn't quite that sense and
you wanted it to be there, but therewas just something missing and you
couldn't put your finger on it.
And so think that both of ourstories bring kind of those
different angles to where do wefind the impetus to create change.
Erin Davis (she/her) (16:24):
Yep
Jade Pichette (they/them): And to build change. (16:24):
undefined
And I don't think there'sany one story for that.
And I don't think there's any one pointthat we have to have figured that out.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (16:34):
Right.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (16:34):
Like I think if we figure that out
in our teens, that's great.
I think if we figure that outin our 80s, that's also great.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (16:41):
Yes, yeah.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (16:42):
You know, and it's giving that space for time to
develop and for us to figure out thesedifferent pieces of ourselves as well,
'cause sometimes it takes time whenit comes to those pieces of ourselves
and when we want to even show thosepieces, because there are certain
things that we don't have a choice inwhether they're being shown or not.
(17:03):
And so I know for myself, this wasvery much around, I don't really
have a choice about being perceivedas a trans person because, hello.
But I did have a choice about whetherI was being perceived disabled
or not, at least I thought I did.
And that part of myself I hid formany years and didn't really have my
(17:28):
aha moment until my 30s to actuallystart making that type of change.
So I think that we all find ourselvesin different points in that journey.
And heard many challenges along theway in terms of, you know, you really
just wanting them to create that space.
You wanting to be able to showthose pieces of yourselves.
(17:49):
And I think, that's a huge part of whyour podcast exists is this idea that we
want the organizations to change becausewe believe in capacity for change.
Erin Davis (she/her) (18:02):
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (18:02):
We believe in capacity for creating these spaces
but it is on the employer, it is onthe people that are creating a space
build that and to also take the momentsto say, I don't know the answer here,
so I'm going to bring in an expert.
Erin Davis (she/her) (18:18):
Totally.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (18:19):
And now you're one of those experts.
Erin Davis (she/her) (18:21):
Yes yeah, I sum it up to this idea of humility
that us as individuals need tohave because there's no way that we
possibly can understand, everything.
And we have to have humility thatwe might not always get it right
because we are constantly learning.
And also are we not constantly evolvingin terms of understanding who we are?
(18:42):
Because for the first part of my career,I really showed up in an inauthentic way.
I showed up in how I perceivedsuccess to look like.
And I often tell the story aboutthose first 10 years of my career
and the one time I cried at workbecause you don't cry at work.
You don't show emotion at work.
You show up in a robotic-likemanner and you get the job done.
(19:06):
And so I was embarrassedthat I was crying at work.
I happened to be seven months pregnantat the time and probably fairly hormonal
and my mentor was sharing with me thatthey were leaving the organization.
So there was sort of anaccumulation of emotions happening.
But the fact that I was embarrassedto show that emotion at work really
(19:26):
taught me upon reflection, not in themoment, that I wasn't able to be my
authentic self, that I wasn't ableto show the true me in these spaces.
I'm now in a space of beingable to be my authentic self
and show emotion and show up.
But , I don't think everyonecan show up that way at all
Jade Pichette (they/them) (19:45):
I don't think it's safe for everybody to.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (19:47):
Yeah.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (19:48):
Is like reality and I wish it was safe or,
and I mean, this is again, why we'redoing this, we believe in this work,
is we want people to have that safety.
But sometimes the safest optionis not showing parts of yourself.
Erin Davis (she/her) (20:03):
Mm-hmm.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (20:03):
And that need for safety comes before a need
for belonging at the end of the day.
You know, it's the hierarchy of needs.
And really that sense of safety iswhat grounds us into whether we're
able to approach a sense of belongingand that has been the case in my
(20:23):
career as well where I've had momentswhere I knew that if I was completely
honest and completely myself.
I got written up and written up as havingissues with my communication style when
really what that was was me showing up andbeing authentic when I would get angry
Erin Davis (she/her) (20:42):
right
Jade Pichette (they/them) (20:43):
I would get angry because people would do
something that was racist or homophobicor transphobic or sexist often sexist
and that anger was real and it washeartfelt felt that there were so
many times where I'd have to quashmy anger or hide my anger because
I knew how it would be received.
And I know that, we have differentimplications as a society around,
(21:07):
, sadness and anger, but really at the endof the day they're both human emotions
that we should be able to show at work.
And you know, different if thatis causing harm to another person,
but somebody just having an emotionisn't causing harm to another person.
And so we need to be ableto create space for that.
And I want to share maybemy last crying story at work.
(21:31):
And it actually was in this job,but it wasn't about this job.
there were some personalthings going on in my life.
I was really, really struggling and Ihad decided to come into the office on
a Friday afternoon because I thoughtnobody would be here and I would just
have the space to myself to just likework and ground and just do my own thing.
(21:51):
And one of my co-workers was hereand I didn't expect to see him
and he was like, "Are you okay?"
And so just was like, " No."
- Yeah.
- And that's why I'm here.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (22:02):
Yeah.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:02):
But I will be.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (22:03):
Yes.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:04):
And I started to cry a little bit and then
I went to my office, I spent time bymyself and just like bawled a little
bit, but I felt so supported and Ifelt like I belonged to such a deep
degree because there was both a humanempathy that came out from my coworker,
(22:25):
but also there was no expectation
Erin Davis (she/her) (22:29):
-Yes
Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:30):
-With that.
There was no, oh my gods, are you okay?
Like what's wrong?
I need to fix this for you right nowsomething along those lines it was
just a genuine human connection.-
Erin Davis (she/her) (22:41):
Yes.
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:41):
And then when I didn't need anything from this
person at the time, that was enough.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (22:46):
Yeah
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (22:47):
And so a space of true belonging includes being
able to cry at work and being okay.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (22:52):
Absolutely.
This is great like just us talkingthrough these barriers, these
challenges and some don't even havethat safety to even be able to show
. Up and say I'm not having a good day.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (23:03):
Yeah
And how many people have had to pretendthat they had some type of physical
illness when really they were justhaving some Issues in their life
that required them to need a day offSometimes you just need a day off and
yet people will have to hide that fact.
They'll have to hide why they're needinga day and put it as some type of physical
(23:24):
illness because that way it's seen aslegitimate within the working world.
Erin Davis (she/her) (23:29):
Yeah.
That's a really good point and itdoesn't have to mean sharing every
piece of that, but just being okay tophone in and say like, "I need a day."
And having learned thatlesson during the pandemic
I wonder is the pendulum swinging back
Jade Pichette (they/them) (23:41):
I mean, I would hope not, but I
think the answer is otherwise.
We're definitely at a place where thependulum is swinging again towards
needing to fake how you're doing.
' Cause the reality is for mostpeople, most people aren't okay.
Like even the people who are kind ofokay, they're still not okay Because
(24:04):
there has been so much grief, so muchdisconnection, so much, challenges,
and that could be an economicreason, that could be a health
reason, that could be loss.
But we're all very tired.
I haven't spoken to a single personrecently who's like, oh yeah, I'm
truly energized and just raring togo right in a way that I think used
(24:27):
to be sometimes the case for people.
But we're all just coming outof this time of pandemic and
isolation with challenges.
And so I see us swinging back tothis fakeness where we're covering
how we're actually feeling.
. Erin Davis (she/her): I feel that energy too.
It makes me nervous
(24:47):
. It makes me think about how can we not just get to a place of
accepting what it means to be human,and , being able to say, like, I
can only show up at 80% today, butI'm going to give 100% of that 80%.
And that's okay.
So, what do we tell Our listenersabout this post-pandemic world?
(25:08):
I really think that we need to
continue some of the lessons thatwe learned during the pandemic.
In terms of flexibility of work, interms of accessibility, all of which
seemed to be dwindling fading away.
and, you know, not the hyperproductivity, which I know is
a topic that both of us want
to do a bit more of a deepdive on later, but this idea
(25:31):
that we always have to be busy
Erin Davis (she/her) (25:33):
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (25:34):
And almost want to challenge this
idea of even showing up at 80%.
Like, is work 80% of your life?
No.
So why are you showing up at 80%?
Erin Davis (she/her) (25:44):
Totally.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (25:45):
If that's not 80% of your life, you have
much more within your life to give.
And so I think that if we actuallytook a moment to pause, say, what did
we learn over the last three years?
What fed me as an individual?
What fed people on my team what reallybrought us that sense that we were in
(26:08):
this together and let's bring it back.
Let's not lose it.
Erin Davis (she/her) (26:12):
Yeah.
I love that.
And there are so many lessons that Ithink we did learn and we've lost that.
back to the transactional, how manymeetings can we fit into a day?
How many conversations can we have?
, you know, we're still scheduling meetingsback to back, but all of a sudden we have
to incorporate travel time into there.
So I think my encouragement foranyone listening to this is hold
(26:34):
the space for what works for you.
Share that with your colleague, share thatwith your manager, have the conversation.
And if it doesn't go in thedirection you need it to go, then
maybe that isn't the place in whichyou can have that true belonging.
And I'm hopeful that our listenersreally can have and spark good
dialogue on what it means showup a workplace and truly belong.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (26:58):
Agreed
Erin Davis (she/her) (26:59):
So you know, drum roll however we want to do this.
Cue the music.
Let's do the rapid fire..
I will kickstart us askingfor your book recommendation.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:13):
So my one book would be Care Work, Dreaming Disability
Justice by and I think it really fits
into the conversation that we'vebeen having today what about you?
Erin Davis (she/her) (27:27):
Rules are made to be broken.
So I'm going to give two
.the first From the Ashes by Jesse Thistle, the second one Unbound by Steph Jagger,
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:36):
Wonderful.
And so what brings you joy no matter what?
Erin Davis (she/her) (27:40):
I love to Take photographs and so if I have
my camera at hand and just capturingthat moment, it always brings me joy.
What about
you?
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:50):
Cute dog.
So if you take any photos of cutedogs, please send them my way.
Erin Davis (she/her) (27:56):
Okay.
I might have a few of those.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (27:58):
have one in particular, which is my dog,
Apollo, who is the best cuddler of dog
I've ever met.
He is a great little spoondespite being 100 pounds.
Erin Davis (she/her) (28:09):
I love that.
. So this
is the question that always tripsme up with our guests, because
I don't know how they do it, butwhat's your theme song for today?
, Jade Pichette (they/them) (28:19):
I'm going to go with Grammy Award
winner Lizzo's " About Down Time,"which I highly recommend the song if
you haven't heard it What about yourself?
, Erin Davis (she/her): I will confess that
I was looking through my Spotify and liketrying to figure it out, but you know what
really caught my attention?
Simply
the Best, Tina Turner.
And I think when I was little, Iused to sing the best of the best.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (28:42):
Well, that's simply the best answer.
Erin Davis (she/her) (28:44):
Thank you.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (28:45):
And who is somebody who inspires you in how
they create belonging doesn't receive
enough credit?
Erin Davis (she/her) (28:51):
I want to give a shout out to my partner who helps me find
that sense of belonging every single day.
So thank you, Clayton.
But the reason I also sharethat is because I want that to
be sort of a universal thank
you to all the partners, toindividuals who are doing D&I
work in this world, because
it's not easy.
It's hard.
You come home and thereare stories to tell.
And I hope that you have someonethat you can share that with
(29:14):
in your life because that
support so needed.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (29:17):
Yeah, my partner, Daya, definitely gets to hear
a few stories that I wouldn't tell toanybody else and very, very grateful for.
There's
somebody else, though, that Iwanted to kind of shout out,
which is Chanel Gallant, who
is a white anti-racist advocate.
She is a sex worker rightsadvocate and really is one
(29:37):
one of my heroes, howeveryou want to say it.
But she's my answer for today.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (29:43):
I love it.
Well, last question, whatis one call to action
that you have for our listeners?
- Jade Pichette (they/them) (29:50):
For me, I really wanna encourage people
to consider self-accommodation.
- Erin Davis (she/her) (29:56):
Right.
Jade Pichette (they/them) (29:57):
And this is something that as like a disabled person
certainly has certain implications,
like, do I bring my cane
or do I not bring my cane?
But it also has other implications.
Like, two years ago,
I would not have worn ahead to toe pink suit.
You know, like I would not havedone that because I would not
consider it professional enough.
Erin Davis (she/her) (30:17):
Yeah.
Jade Pichette (they/them): But did it today. (30:17):
undefined
and happy about it.
So that's the thing that I reallythink that people need to consider
is how do you accommodate yourself
and how do you create the world to be moreaccessible and welcoming for yourself?
Erin Davis (she/her) (30:31):
I will attest to Jade's amazing outfit today,
head to toe, pink, andthey are rocking it.
I'll share my call to action.
To everyone
listening keep learning.
and in that process, identifywhat is that one small action?
What is
that one key piece of learning?
When you listen to that podcast,when you read that book, when
(30:54):
you watch that show that hasan intersectional lens that you
can share with someone else,
keep the conversation going.
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