July 22, 2022 • 25 mins
VHB Hosts Dave Mulholland and Ryan Fetchko are joined by Jennifer Foote, Senior Vice President for Business Development with Beep, for the second half of a conversation about how cities are responding to major innovations in transportation technology by integrating autonomous vehicle infrastructure. Find out how communities can elevate flexible, scalable AV planning at the front end or retrofit for established infrastructure so more residents and visitors can benefit from the new technology.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
(Mike Carragher)Viewpoints is VHB’s thought leadership platform,
where we share insights on critical issuesand emerging technologies in the AEC industry.
I’m Mike Carragher, President and CEO of VHB.
I’m excited to introduce VHB’sthought leaders and our client and partner
podcast participants—all future-focused thinkerswho want to reimagine the built environment.
(00:25):
I hope you’ll tune in often and leave inspired!
This is Dave Mulholland, VHB Chief Technology Officer,
and today I’m joined by my VHB colleague and co-hostRyan Fetchko, Transportation Technology Engineer,
for the second half of our conversationwith Jennifer Foote, Senior
Vice President of Business Development with Beep—a companythat provides
(00:46):
the intelligence that enables safe, stress-free, eco-friendly,
driverless mobility via autonomous vehicles.
In our last conversation,we discussed how Beep operates in Yellowstone National Park,
its passenger capacity, and AV shuttle
technologies powered by 3D printing.
Today we’ll dig in deeper to the operational designdomain, or ODD, for autonomous vehicles
(01:10):
and how Florida communities like Altamonte Springs and Lake Nona
are springboards for advancing AV technology.
Let’s get started.
(Ryan Fetchko)So you guys use several different platforms to operate.
It's kind of like you guys work to find what is the best shoethat fits the scenario to implement that scenario.
In place.
(01:31):
(Jennifer Foote)Exactly. Exactly. You know, the technologies that are out in the market right now
are very similar, but there are a few nuances
that can make them more appropriatefor one use case over another.
And so we really are looking for the best of breedin terms of solutions out there.
So that we can fit what our customersare really looking to achieve.
(01:53):
(Ryan Fetchko)I think it's an excellent approach.
It allows kind of the options to be more dynamic
in terms of fitting the solution.
And it's something that I thinkis going to be relatively important going forward
as we start looking at how this technologyis going to be intertwining inside of our communities.
Whether they're already pre builtand we're retrofitting our streets and roadways in the future
for autonomy or know, we're looking at new communities
(02:15):
that are being constructed around the idea of autonomy.
(Jennifer Foote)Yeah.
You bring up a really interesting topic, Ryan.
Just about the idea of whether we're building up
from greenfield or whether we're retrofitting.
And that's one of the things that I thinkis really part of the work that you do
that's really fascinating and enabling
(02:36):
the autonomous technology and our customers are asking a lot.
What do they need to be thinking about in terms of making
their environment AV ready?
And so I can share with them, obviously,
the operational design domain, how
things are configured in the vehicle that make them operate
(02:57):
more ideally from one type of infrastructure to the other,
but what are you hearing from your customersas it relates to that?
And how do you incorporate that ODD into the workthat you're doing?
(Ryan Fetchko)It's interesting because there's a lot
that's really not completely understood yet
when it comes to ODD and autonomybecause there's different types of autonomy.
(03:20):
There's different types of vehicles that we have to interface.
And today we're talking you and I, we're talkingabout these vehicles that are meant to transport passengers Yes.
But we also are going to have in the future robotson our sidewalks that are going be delivering packages.
And that's already in place in a lot of major cities.
We're going to have, you know, full sizefreight trucks driving along our principal arterials and highways
(03:42):
that are going to be running in autonomous modes,
as well as robo taxis driving around at full speed.
(Dave Mulholland)You're right. There are a lot of questions in this in the in this space.
Right. In terms of what we all have.
And we spent some time talking about this.
It's interesting
when you think about the Central Florida AV partnershipand some of the things that we've seen through
(04:04):
that, seeing the freight logistics in the long hauland how they're doing it.
And it does align, Jennifer, with what you're talking about,
your remote control center for the last mileand how they bring the vehicles in.
So that's that's exciting.
It was one of those questions that you sit there and go,we get asked all the time,
what are the biggest challengesthat we need to help municipalities with
(04:25):
in preparation for the RV shuttles like BEEP?
Some of the biggest challenges that we're seeing from
the policy standpoint is really what policies are in place.
Does the state legislation because they do vary by state?
Does the state legislation actually acceptand allow an automated vehicle on the road?
And with what constraints within the neighborhoods?
(04:48):
Because it does vary within local neighborhoods as well.
Some of the
biggest challenges on the design sideis really the crossings with public streets
How does it interact with the general commuting public?
You know, so these are some of the challenges that we're seeing.
And Orion,that was one of the the bigger challenges we've seen in the city
of Ultimate Springs Flex Path.
(05:09):
The VPN and beef we're both looking at
and helping and supporting is where the crossings go.
And how do that how do the vehiclesactually traverse the crossings with the other vehicles in black?
(Ryan Fetchko)Yeah, there was a lot of information that was kind of decimating that singular project
because it really was looking athow do we take some of the existing infrastructure
that we've already got some of these existing challengeswith the way
(05:32):
that we move aroundkind of a really quickly growing urban environment
as well as inside, you know,
private parking lots and getting into front doorsand and navigating
you know, heavy pedestrian areas in areas
that vehicle movements aren't necessarily consistent.
And how do we develop infrastructurein signage and lane marking and
(05:58):
dedicated
places for the shuttle to operate within these environments
such that it can be done safely, but also efficiently,
you know, less of a footprint the better.
And that was a critical thinking effortwhen it comes to you know,
taking our biking PED safety experts, our roadway safety
experts, a lot of our transportation engineers
(06:21):
and putting our heads together and sayingwhat's the best fit solution?
And then we went overand you had a had a good long discussion with them about this
and said, we've got this scenario coming up.
What are the challenges that you guys are seeing out
in Canada and your other operations that might lend?
And some answers to some of these complex questionswhen it comes to deciding our design
(06:42):
characteristics for these facilities,that we need an ultimate springs.
And that's what really kind of cut off this discussionabout what we need to start thinking
about operational design domain as a standardand start thinking about this infrastructure piece as a whole.
And how do these vehicles, whether they're passenger vehicles,
whether they're robo taxis,whether they're shuttles, whether they're freight vehicles,
(07:06):
what do they need to see and what do we need to dowith the infrastructure to enable them to see?
And that allowed us to really put togethera discrete set of design criteria
that we could lend to the projectand develop out the actual design for this.
The shuttle system that we feel is something
that's beyond sufficient will carry forward into the futurefor all types of mobility,
(07:27):
whether it's with an autonomous shuttlerunning on it, micro transit micro mobility solutions.
But it's a point to point situationfor connecting a major commuter hub
with a major employment center,as well as a major retail hub here in Ultimate Springs.
But yeah, that's that's an interesting one day.
But it also has sparked upthis general interest among the region.
(07:50):
The members of the CFA.
And not only out there, but
also kind of on the west coast of Florida, asking,how are you doing this?
What's going into this? And how is it going to be developed?
So there's a lot of eyes on this projectand we've had a good thought into it.
It's developing out into somethingthat's turning into a really, really great project.
(08:12):
(Dave Mulholland)Take take a scenario on this where you're based and you refer to a greenfield
or a large master plan community.
When you're planning for
the implementation of an autonomous shuttle.
What infrastructure changes need to happen on thisAnd if so, how?
How does the regulation regulatory agencies
(08:35):
need to be prepared to actually address some of those?
Because, you know, in some casesyou hear that the autonomous shuttle
essentially does not need any other infrastructure
outside the communications that you refer to.
But in some cases,
you're hearing that there's a little bit additional servicesthat are needed.
(Jennifer Foote)It depends on how the community is designed.
(08:56):
I'm a consultant at heart,so my favorite answer is going to be depends
and that I can I can help a little bit.
So in order to fully realize
the return on investment of an autonomous vehicle,
you want that autonomous vehicle to be able to operatewithout a safety attendant on board.
(09:17):
So if you're traversing an intersection,you're going to need to have
roadside units and onboard unitsthat can communicate with each other.
So the vehicle knows when it's safeto proceed through an intersection.
And that's just one example of some things that need to happen.
Vehicles for for efficient operations.
(09:37):
Right now, our vehicles are on Preprogram paths,
and we program what's called a priority zone
when it's approaching a pedestrian crosswalk, for example.
And so the vehicle knows at this set of coordinates
along its path it should widen the aperture
and look a little bit wider out on either side of the road
(10:00):
to see if maybe there's a pedestrianthat's approaching the crosswalk.
But for more efficient operations, what if we could
signal as those pedestrian crosswalks
and have those communicate with the vehicle
so the vehicle will already knowwhether it has the right of way or not?
It doesn't have to slow down.
And it's it's already equipped with sensing equipment.
(10:23):
If somebody chooses to proceed without authorization,
it'll stopbut at least it has the option to know, hey, I'm free to go.
I don't have to slow down and I can keep moving. So
that type
of infrastructure is going to be really importantgoing forward and signalization
and making sure that the vehicle can know its place
(10:47):
in traffic and how it's supposed to navigate.
You know, ideally we'll get to a point
where these vehicles are able to operate
in their you know, in mixed traffic completely at any speed.
We're not there right now.
So in some cases, having a dedicated lane or transit priority
(11:07):
to keep that the shuttle operating efficiently alongsideother modes of transportation
might be a considerationwe would want to look at depending on where we want to deploy it.
So there each case is different
and the objectives of every deployment is different.
And that's where you need a good planning partnerlike VA to be and folks who really understand
(11:31):
how the vehicles operate to make sure we're putting
the ideal infrastructure in place for a readiness.
(Dave Mulholland)So it's one of those questions that I've had for a while,
and I'm going to
tell a little story firstand then I'll come back to the question.
So over in Heathrow, in London, at the airport,they actually have the P.A.
(11:52):
system, the pods that are out there.
So personal rapid transit
the pods are simply point to point,and they're on demand services.
Right.
So basically a person can sit there,
wait, click a button, and in the vehicle shows up.
How long through your research and developmentdo you think it's going to be before
the autonomous shuttle, such as beep would be doing a point
(12:16):
to point to point on demand service?
(Jennifer Foote)Yes. So we we are doing point to point now
and we have a capability through our rider app for
passengers to advise
the shuttle that they're there at a stop waiting.
So we are not yet at the sophistication level
(12:38):
where it would dispatch an additional vehicleif there's high demand.
I think we'll get there.
(Dave Mulholland)The real takeaway is that it's eminent, that it's coming.
It's not a five to ten years down
the road is that this is a real technologythat will be point to point
and on demand in terms of dispatch,if you will, in the near-term future.
(13:02):
So it's not.
(Jennifer Foote)Yeah.
I mean, I think that that our you know, door to door
off of the predefined path is probably still a while away.
I think the robo taxi use case is still a while away.
There are too many variables,but the way they get the way that we all get there is to take
these use cases that are doable nowand deploy them in a very safe
(13:25):
and efficient way and learn from those use cases.
And we learn then how to
deploy the next more complex use case
and the one after that and the one after thatuntil we all are able to hail
an autonomous robot taxi to our front doorand take it to the airport.
(13:47):
That's the dream for all of us.
(Ryan Fetchko and Dave Mulholland)That is the dream. Certainly signed us up for it. We're in.
(Jennifer Foote)I can check my emails and drink my coffee safely while I'm on my commute to the airport, so.
(Ryan Fetchko)Exactly. Exactly.
And that brings up kind of an interesting point, too, Dave,when we're talking about greenfield communities
and the shapes of thingsand what they're going to look like in the future.
(14:08):
I think there's also to the you mentioned the regulatory side,but I think that there's a policy side to this.
There's a lot that has to take shape inside of development codes
and set of comprehensive plansstill to start thinking about the effectiveness
of the technology, not only from the standpointof making an impact, but also enabling it.
And that's something that I think is going to come through.
(14:30):
You know, it's going to be a long effort for that to happen.
We know that regulation and policy doesn't moveas fast as we'd like it to,
but also it doesn't move as fastas we'd like it to for good reason.
So that way we have enough time to vet
and learn the technologies and those impactsso that we only have to hopefully do that
(14:50):
regulation and policy once because every time we changeit it's a substantial impact.
But the other thing that comes along with usis the public perception side is the education component,
helping others learn the effectiveness of the technology.
And I think what you guys are doing at LakeNona is an excellent effort.
It's open to the public. You can go and ride it.
(15:12):
You can leave from Boxy Park, go out to the campus restaurant,which is a beautiful restaurant if you've never been there.
But you learn a lot on the ride.
You learn a lot, you know, just riding in the vehicles.
It's a completely different feeling.
Looking around the vehicle, there's no driver.
This thing is running great.
It's in line with traffic stops and all the stop signs.
(15:33):
You know, it's an experience,
but you start feeling comfortable in it after the first round.
You start getting used to it and then you get used to the sounds.
It's like this is no different than me taking a trolleythat's on a fixed pathway or a gateway.
This thing is excellent.
In fact, it's really interesting,you know, for me as an engineer to go to some of the conferences
(15:54):
where they have the demonstrationsand you go out and see these vehicles run on their fixed pass
at the demonstrations when they're on that nice, freshly pavedhotel parking lot at the convention center.
And you see those tracks that's been running over for the lasttwo days, it's like those are the tires from that shuttle.
They have not deviated an inch from those tracks.
(16:14):
Yeah, but this is not a fixed track device.
They're that accurate in a lot of ways.
And that only stands to say that they are pretty darn safewhen it comes to actually riding them.
They're not going to do the crazy thingsthat everybody worries about they're going to do.
But it's super interesting to see kind of this technologydevelop in the way that it has.
(16:35):
And and it's it's awesome to have it right in our backyard here,like now to
to see the advancements, you know, gostop by once a month and see how much better it's getting.
Because every time we ride it, it's always better.
And I think it lends to your guys's experienceand how much data you're able to
put into the manufacturersthrough your operations and deployments.
(16:55):
(Dave Mulholland)And I imagine through having the operators.
(Jennifer Foote)We take that that experience very seriously.
We know that the only way the industry is going tomove forward is
if if the technologies are adopted.
And so for every deployment that we do,we spend a great deal of time with our customers
with a public communications plan so folks
(17:16):
understand what's happening and we publicize it.
We invite people to come out and ride.
And, you know, there's some novelty aspect to itthat we're we're servicing
very real impactfuluse cases in every community that we go to. So
I think one of
the things that that made my heart smile most recently,we deployed
(17:38):
a couple of shuttles out in Peoria, Arizona,to a retirement community,
and that gives them the opportunityto take the shuttle to their medical appointments.
And they were thrilledand committed to taking advantage of the opportunity
to use this great mode of transportation to get them toand from their medical appointments.
(18:00):
Maybe to the pharmacy here and there. So,
you know, while the technology is new and and in some cases,
as I said, a bit of a novelty where we're providing
really impactful solutions to real transportation
needs wherever we go and allowing folks to experience
(18:21):
it and educate them about what's coming to a greater degreein the future with autonomous travel.
(Ryan Fetchko)I'm glad you brought that up, Jennifer, because that's something that I've been learning over the past
probably four or five yearsis the idea of healthy and smart communities.
And one
aspect of that that I think drives that a little bitis our transportation options.
(18:41):
And it's something that we've been looking at here.
VHB through the Healthy and Smart Communities programs
and the likes of Smart Cities is how much of a of an impact
do these transportation optionsactually have on the generalized health of the community?
Does adequate access to transportation options change
(19:02):
the overall health of a
of a specific neighborhood or a larger region?
And we found that in a lot of ways that sometimes
it's a substantial, substantial impact.
And just knowing that there's rural communities
that in the future will have options to access
their health care, that they wouldotherwise have to wait a long time for depend on somebody
(19:26):
to give them a ridebecause these vehicles will have the reach out to them.
But also even in urban communitieswhere there's very little transportation options
or it's not maybe necessarily the best infrastructure
for them to access or even transit deserts,
these places are for the opportunityfor municipalities and cities and states and transit agencies
(19:48):
to reach into those communities and get to
those folks that need those transportation options.
(Jennifer Foote)Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
And and one of the things I really enjoy about Lake Nonais they've done a lot of research
on wellness and how transportation impacts wellness.
That's one of the reasons why they've investedso heavily in multimodal transportation solutions.
(20:10):
And they are building their entire mobility network to provide
for walking, biking, but also the shuttles,
because we know there are going to be people who,even though they'd love to, just can't walk or bike.
And so there's a very real place for autonomous vehicles
and allowing folks to get the vital services and
(20:31):
and get to the lifestyle choicesthat that improve their quality of life.
(Dave Mulholland)Ryan, the part
that I actually appreciated about that questionis there's there's really two parts, right?
The healthy portion of itand bring in the eco friendly that Jennifer so passionate about.
You know, when you think about the electric vehicleand the progress that we've made
with electrification is a whole different podcast discussion,
(20:55):
but it's made such advances in where it is to the point where,
you know, the impacts on the environment and what it's doing
is obviously having its impact across the, you know, the globe.
Eventually over time you know, the second part, when you refer
to the smart communities aspect of this,
the the part that
(21:19):
the part about thisthat actually resonates with the smart communities
is that it actually can fill that last mile connectivitywith some of the transportation systems,
whether it's the aviation side, and I'm talking longer term
where there's the bus servicesto get people to where they need to be
and or whether connects the trains in the planesand the automobile side of the house.
(21:41):
Right.
So it's exciting to see another alternative
form of mode of transportation that's going to fill that
gap longer term to actually help close that challenge
that I think a lot of the agency partnershave throughout the United States as well.
(Ryan Fetchko)Exactly.
And in the future, it's going to be a very dynamicand powerful tool
(22:02):
that we have to addresssome of the challenges that we've we've built ourselves into.
And a lot of areas of the nation
by, you know, rethinking
what it means to have access to transportation.
(Jennifer Foote)Yeah, you know, that that whole topic of first
and last mile goes back to,
you know, the capacity question,are we looking for bigger form factors?
(22:25):
And it really does depend on that use case.
And, you know, where are we connecting to and fromand how many people are looking to jump on there?
We had a great use case.
We were running in downtown Tampa and we had folks
coming in to the regional transportation center
there from Bus Rapid Transit and jumping off of the bussesand onto the shuttle
(22:48):
to go to their final destination there along the Marion StreetTransit Corridor.
So just another excellent
use case for these first and last mile solutions
to make sure folks are able to get where they need to go.
(Dave Mulholland)So you've got that crystal ball back out.
That was really, really good last time.
(23:09):
And and you're looking forward ten years.
How many vehicles do you seepeople having on the road at that point?
And how many different states are you operating in?
(Jennifer Foote)Well, we are going to be operating in all 50 states
and and everywhere across the globe for sure.
I think we'll have hundreds, if not thousands of vehicles
(23:31):
operating in the next few years even.
And you know, Ryan made a comment
in the very beginning of the conversationthat I want to circle back to you.
He said, the sky's the limit.
And that's true because we're even now looking at heliports
and inverted ports and autonomous
personal jets.
(23:52):
And so I think the next ten years is going back to in my
career and transformation,
we're really going to see a true transformation in transportation
the likes of which we haven'tseen since the invention of the motorized vehicle.
So I'm looking forward to being a part of thatand looking forward
(24:13):
to partnering very closely with you guys to make those hundreds
of thousands of vehicles on the road a reality.
(Dave Mulholland)It is exciting times in the transportation world.
Ironically, you can go tune in to the VHB
podcast series one, which actually was on the eVTOL vehicle.
And we actually did an interview with Lilium as part of that.
(24:35):
So it isit is a ever changing transportation market and where we're at.
Ryan, I certainly appreciate you joining and co-hosting this.
Jennifer, it's been a absolute pleasure
to have the conversation with you today.
I hope you'll keep us informed on what great advances
that Beep is taking in the AV technologiesand the new communities that you're planning on working
(24:58):
and operating in that you're making such a critical impactand in the future as well.
(Jennifer Foote and Ryan Fetchko)Absolutely. Thank you. My pleasure. It's been a pleasure, Dave.
(Mike Carragher)Viewpoints is VHB’s thought leadership platform,
where we share insights on critical issuesand emerging technologies in the AEC industry.
I’m Mike Carragher, President and CEO of VHB.
I’m excited to introduce VHB’sthought leaders and our client and partner
podcast participants—all future-focused thinkerswho want to reimagine the built environment.
(00:25):
I hope you’ll tune in often and leave inspired!
This is Dave Mulholland, VHB Chief Technology Officer,
and today I’m joined by my VHB colleague and co-hostRyan Fetchko, Transportation Technology Engineer,
for the second half of our conversationwith Jennifer Foote, Senior
Vice President of Business Development with Beep—a companythat provides
(00:46):
the intelligence that enables safe, stress-free, eco-friendly,
driverless mobility via autonomous vehicles.
In our last conversation,we discussed how Beep operates in Yellowstone National Park,
its passenger capacity, and AV shuttle
technologies powered by 3D printing.
Today we’ll dig in deeper to the operational designdomain, or ODD, for autonomous vehicles
(01:10):
and how Florida communities like Altamonte Springs and Lake Nona
are springboards for advancing AV technology.
Let’s get started.
(Ryan Fetchko)So you guys use several different platforms to operate.
It's kind of like you guys work to find what is the best shoethat fits the scenario to implement that scenario.
In place.
(01:31):
(Jennifer Foote)Exactly. Exactly. You know, the technologies that are out in the market right now
are very similar, but there are a few nuances
that can make them more appropriatefor one use case over another.
And so we really are looking for the best of breedin terms of solutions out there.
So that we can fit what our customersare really looking to achieve.
(01:53):
(Ryan Fetchko)I think it's an excellent approach.
It allows kind of the options to be more dynamic
in terms of fitting the solution.
And it's something that I thinkis going to be relatively important going forward
as we start looking at how this technologyis going to be intertwining inside of our communities.
Whether they're already pre builtand we're retrofitting our streets and roadways in the future
for autonomy or know, we're looking at new communities
(02:15):
that are being constructed around the idea of autonomy.
(Jennifer Foote)Yeah.
You bring up a really interesting topic, Ryan.
Just about the idea of whether we're building up
from greenfield or whether we're retrofitting.
And that's one of the things that I thinkis really part of the work that you do
that's really fascinating and enabling
(02:36):
the autonomous technology and our customers are asking a lot.
What do they need to be thinking about in terms of making
their environment AV ready?
And so I can share with them, obviously,
the operational design domain, how
things are configured in the vehicle that make them operate
(02:57):
more ideally from one type of infrastructure to the other,
but what are you hearing from your customersas it relates to that?
And how do you incorporate that ODD into the workthat you're doing?
(Ryan Fetchko)It's interesting because there's a lot
that's really not completely understood yet
when it comes to ODD and autonomybecause there's different types of autonomy.
(03:20):
There's different types of vehicles that we have to interface.
And today we're talking you and I, we're talkingabout these vehicles that are meant to transport passengers Yes.
But we also are going to have in the future robotson our sidewalks that are going be delivering packages.
And that's already in place in a lot of major cities.
We're going to have, you know, full sizefreight trucks driving along our principal arterials and highways
(03:42):
that are going to be running in autonomous modes,
as well as robo taxis driving around at full speed.
(Dave Mulholland)You're right. There are a lot of questions in this in the in this space.
Right. In terms of what we all have.
And we spent some time talking about this.
It's interesting
when you think about the Central Florida AV partnershipand some of the things that we've seen through
(04:04):
that, seeing the freight logistics in the long hauland how they're doing it.
And it does align, Jennifer, with what you're talking about,
your remote control center for the last mileand how they bring the vehicles in.
So that's that's exciting.
It was one of those questions that you sit there and go,we get asked all the time,
what are the biggest challengesthat we need to help municipalities with
(04:25):
in preparation for the RV shuttles like BEEP?
Some of the biggest challenges that we're seeing from
the policy standpoint is really what policies are in place.
Does the state legislation because they do vary by state?
Does the state legislation actually acceptand allow an automated vehicle on the road?
And with what constraints within the neighborhoods?
(04:48):
Because it does vary within local neighborhoods as well.
Some of the
biggest challenges on the design sideis really the crossings with public streets
How does it interact with the general commuting public?
You know, so these are some of the challenges that we're seeing.
And Orion,that was one of the the bigger challenges we've seen in the city
of Ultimate Springs Flex Path.
(05:09):
The VPN and beef we're both looking at
and helping and supporting is where the crossings go.
And how do that how do the vehiclesactually traverse the crossings with the other vehicles in black?
(Ryan Fetchko)Yeah, there was a lot of information that was kind of decimating that singular project
because it really was looking athow do we take some of the existing infrastructure
that we've already got some of these existing challengeswith the way
(05:32):
that we move aroundkind of a really quickly growing urban environment
as well as inside, you know,
private parking lots and getting into front doorsand and navigating
you know, heavy pedestrian areas in areas
that vehicle movements aren't necessarily consistent.
And how do we develop infrastructurein signage and lane marking and
(05:58):
dedicated
places for the shuttle to operate within these environments
such that it can be done safely, but also efficiently,
you know, less of a footprint the better.
And that was a critical thinking effortwhen it comes to you know,
taking our biking PED safety experts, our roadway safety
experts, a lot of our transportation engineers
(06:21):
and putting our heads together and sayingwhat's the best fit solution?
And then we went overand you had a had a good long discussion with them about this
and said, we've got this scenario coming up.
What are the challenges that you guys are seeing out
in Canada and your other operations that might lend?
And some answers to some of these complex questionswhen it comes to deciding our design
(06:42):
characteristics for these facilities,that we need an ultimate springs.
And that's what really kind of cut off this discussionabout what we need to start thinking
about operational design domain as a standardand start thinking about this infrastructure piece as a whole.
And how do these vehicles, whether they're passenger vehicles,
whether they're robo taxis,whether they're shuttles, whether they're freight vehicles,
(07:06):
what do they need to see and what do we need to dowith the infrastructure to enable them to see?
And that allowed us to really put togethera discrete set of design criteria
that we could lend to the projectand develop out the actual design for this.
The shuttle system that we feel is something
that's beyond sufficient will carry forward into the futurefor all types of mobility,
(07:27):
whether it's with an autonomous shuttlerunning on it, micro transit micro mobility solutions.
But it's a point to point situationfor connecting a major commuter hub
with a major employment center,as well as a major retail hub here in Ultimate Springs.
But yeah, that's that's an interesting one day.
But it also has sparked upthis general interest among the region.
(07:50):
The members of the CFA.
And not only out there, but
also kind of on the west coast of Florida, asking,how are you doing this?
What's going into this? And how is it going to be developed?
So there's a lot of eyes on this projectand we've had a good thought into it.
It's developing out into somethingthat's turning into a really, really great project.
(08:12):
(Dave Mulholland)Take take a scenario on this where you're based and you refer to a greenfield
or a large master plan community.
When you're planning for
the implementation of an autonomous shuttle.
What infrastructure changes need to happen on thisAnd if so, how?
How does the regulation regulatory agencies
(08:35):
need to be prepared to actually address some of those?
Because, you know, in some casesyou hear that the autonomous shuttle
essentially does not need any other infrastructure
outside the communications that you refer to.
But in some cases,
you're hearing that there's a little bit additional servicesthat are needed.
(Jennifer Foote)It depends on how the community is designed.
(08:56):
I'm a consultant at heart,so my favorite answer is going to be depends
and that I can I can help a little bit.
So in order to fully realize
the return on investment of an autonomous vehicle,
you want that autonomous vehicle to be able to operatewithout a safety attendant on board.
(09:17):
So if you're traversing an intersection,you're going to need to have
roadside units and onboard unitsthat can communicate with each other.
So the vehicle knows when it's safeto proceed through an intersection.
And that's just one example of some things that need to happen.
Vehicles for for efficient operations.
(09:37):
Right now, our vehicles are on Preprogram paths,
and we program what's called a priority zone
when it's approaching a pedestrian crosswalk, for example.
And so the vehicle knows at this set of coordinates
along its path it should widen the aperture
and look a little bit wider out on either side of the road
(10:00):
to see if maybe there's a pedestrianthat's approaching the crosswalk.
But for more efficient operations, what if we could
signal as those pedestrian crosswalks
and have those communicate with the vehicle
so the vehicle will already knowwhether it has the right of way or not?
It doesn't have to slow down.
And it's it's already equipped with sensing equipment.
(10:23):
If somebody chooses to proceed without authorization,
it'll stopbut at least it has the option to know, hey, I'm free to go.
I don't have to slow down and I can keep moving. So
that type
of infrastructure is going to be really importantgoing forward and signalization
and making sure that the vehicle can know its place
(10:47):
in traffic and how it's supposed to navigate.
You know, ideally we'll get to a point
where these vehicles are able to operate
in their you know, in mixed traffic completely at any speed.
We're not there right now.
So in some cases, having a dedicated lane or transit priority
(11:07):
to keep that the shuttle operating efficiently alongsideother modes of transportation
might be a considerationwe would want to look at depending on where we want to deploy it.
So there each case is different
and the objectives of every deployment is different.
And that's where you need a good planning partnerlike VA to be and folks who really understand
(11:31):
how the vehicles operate to make sure we're putting
the ideal infrastructure in place for a readiness.
(Dave Mulholland)So it's one of those questions that I've had for a while,
and I'm going to
tell a little story firstand then I'll come back to the question.
So over in Heathrow, in London, at the airport,they actually have the P.A.
(11:52):
system, the pods that are out there.
So personal rapid transit
the pods are simply point to point,and they're on demand services.
Right.
So basically a person can sit there,
wait, click a button, and in the vehicle shows up.
How long through your research and developmentdo you think it's going to be before
the autonomous shuttle, such as beep would be doing a point
(12:16):
to point to point on demand service?
(Jennifer Foote)Yes. So we we are doing point to point now
and we have a capability through our rider app for
passengers to advise
the shuttle that they're there at a stop waiting.
So we are not yet at the sophistication level
(12:38):
where it would dispatch an additional vehicleif there's high demand.
I think we'll get there.
(Dave Mulholland)The real takeaway is that it's eminent, that it's coming.
It's not a five to ten years down
the road is that this is a real technologythat will be point to point
and on demand in terms of dispatch,if you will, in the near-term future.
(13:02):
So it's not.
(Jennifer Foote)Yeah.
I mean, I think that that our you know, door to door
off of the predefined path is probably still a while away.
I think the robo taxi use case is still a while away.
There are too many variables,but the way they get the way that we all get there is to take
these use cases that are doable nowand deploy them in a very safe
(13:25):
and efficient way and learn from those use cases.
And we learn then how to
deploy the next more complex use case
and the one after that and the one after thatuntil we all are able to hail
an autonomous robot taxi to our front doorand take it to the airport.
(13:47):
That's the dream for all of us.
(Ryan Fetchko and Dave Mulholland)That is the dream. Certainly signed us up for it. We're in.
(Jennifer Foote)I can check my emails and drink my coffee safely while I'm on my commute to the airport, so.
(Ryan Fetchko)Exactly. Exactly.
And that brings up kind of an interesting point, too, Dave,when we're talking about greenfield communities
and the shapes of thingsand what they're going to look like in the future.
(14:08):
I think there's also to the you mentioned the regulatory side,but I think that there's a policy side to this.
There's a lot that has to take shape inside of development codes
and set of comprehensive plansstill to start thinking about the effectiveness
of the technology, not only from the standpointof making an impact, but also enabling it.
And that's something that I think is going to come through.
(14:30):
You know, it's going to be a long effort for that to happen.
We know that regulation and policy doesn't moveas fast as we'd like it to,
but also it doesn't move as fastas we'd like it to for good reason.
So that way we have enough time to vet
and learn the technologies and those impactsso that we only have to hopefully do that
(14:50):
regulation and policy once because every time we changeit it's a substantial impact.
But the other thing that comes along with usis the public perception side is the education component,
helping others learn the effectiveness of the technology.
And I think what you guys are doing at LakeNona is an excellent effort.
It's open to the public. You can go and ride it.
(15:12):
You can leave from Boxy Park, go out to the campus restaurant,which is a beautiful restaurant if you've never been there.
But you learn a lot on the ride.
You learn a lot, you know, just riding in the vehicles.
It's a completely different feeling.
Looking around the vehicle, there's no driver.
This thing is running great.
It's in line with traffic stops and all the stop signs.
(15:33):
You know, it's an experience,
but you start feeling comfortable in it after the first round.
You start getting used to it and then you get used to the sounds.
It's like this is no different than me taking a trolleythat's on a fixed pathway or a gateway.
This thing is excellent.
In fact, it's really interesting,you know, for me as an engineer to go to some of the conferences
(15:54):
where they have the demonstrationsand you go out and see these vehicles run on their fixed pass
at the demonstrations when they're on that nice, freshly pavedhotel parking lot at the convention center.
And you see those tracks that's been running over for the lasttwo days, it's like those are the tires from that shuttle.
They have not deviated an inch from those tracks.
(16:14):
Yeah, but this is not a fixed track device.
They're that accurate in a lot of ways.
And that only stands to say that they are pretty darn safewhen it comes to actually riding them.
They're not going to do the crazy thingsthat everybody worries about they're going to do.
But it's super interesting to see kind of this technologydevelop in the way that it has.
(16:35):
And and it's it's awesome to have it right in our backyard here,like now to
to see the advancements, you know, gostop by once a month and see how much better it's getting.
Because every time we ride it, it's always better.
And I think it lends to your guys's experienceand how much data you're able to
put into the manufacturersthrough your operations and deployments.
(16:55):
(Dave Mulholland)And I imagine through having the operators.
(Jennifer Foote)We take that that experience very seriously.
We know that the only way the industry is going tomove forward is
if if the technologies are adopted.
And so for every deployment that we do,we spend a great deal of time with our customers
with a public communications plan so folks
(17:16):
understand what's happening and we publicize it.
We invite people to come out and ride.
And, you know, there's some novelty aspect to itthat we're we're servicing
very real impactfuluse cases in every community that we go to. So
I think one of
the things that that made my heart smile most recently,we deployed
(17:38):
a couple of shuttles out in Peoria, Arizona,to a retirement community,
and that gives them the opportunityto take the shuttle to their medical appointments.
And they were thrilledand committed to taking advantage of the opportunity
to use this great mode of transportation to get them toand from their medical appointments.
(18:00):
Maybe to the pharmacy here and there. So,
you know, while the technology is new and and in some cases,
as I said, a bit of a novelty where we're providing
really impactful solutions to real transportation
needs wherever we go and allowing folks to experience
(18:21):
it and educate them about what's coming to a greater degreein the future with autonomous travel.
(Ryan Fetchko)I'm glad you brought that up, Jennifer, because that's something that I've been learning over the past
probably four or five yearsis the idea of healthy and smart communities.
And one
aspect of that that I think drives that a little bitis our transportation options.
(18:41):
And it's something that we've been looking at here.
VHB through the Healthy and Smart Communities programs
and the likes of Smart Cities is how much of a of an impact
do these transportation optionsactually have on the generalized health of the community?
Does adequate access to transportation options change
(19:02):
the overall health of a
of a specific neighborhood or a larger region?
And we found that in a lot of ways that sometimes
it's a substantial, substantial impact.
And just knowing that there's rural communities
that in the future will have options to access
their health care, that they wouldotherwise have to wait a long time for depend on somebody
(19:26):
to give them a ridebecause these vehicles will have the reach out to them.
But also even in urban communitieswhere there's very little transportation options
or it's not maybe necessarily the best infrastructure
for them to access or even transit deserts,
these places are for the opportunityfor municipalities and cities and states and transit agencies
(19:48):
to reach into those communities and get to
those folks that need those transportation options.
(Jennifer Foote)Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
And and one of the things I really enjoy about Lake Nonais they've done a lot of research
on wellness and how transportation impacts wellness.
That's one of the reasons why they've investedso heavily in multimodal transportation solutions.
(20:10):
And they are building their entire mobility network to provide
for walking, biking, but also the shuttles,
because we know there are going to be people who,even though they'd love to, just can't walk or bike.
And so there's a very real place for autonomous vehicles
and allowing folks to get the vital services and
(20:31):
and get to the lifestyle choicesthat that improve their quality of life.
(Dave Mulholland)Ryan, the part
that I actually appreciated about that questionis there's there's really two parts, right?
The healthy portion of itand bring in the eco friendly that Jennifer so passionate about.
You know, when you think about the electric vehicleand the progress that we've made
with electrification is a whole different podcast discussion,
(20:55):
but it's made such advances in where it is to the point where,
you know, the impacts on the environment and what it's doing
is obviously having its impact across the, you know, the globe.
Eventually over time you know, the second part, when you refer
to the smart communities aspect of this,
the the part that
(21:19):
the part about thisthat actually resonates with the smart communities
is that it actually can fill that last mile connectivitywith some of the transportation systems,
whether it's the aviation side, and I'm talking longer term
where there's the bus servicesto get people to where they need to be
and or whether connects the trains in the planesand the automobile side of the house.
(21:41):
Right.
So it's exciting to see another alternative
form of mode of transportation that's going to fill that
gap longer term to actually help close that challenge
that I think a lot of the agency partnershave throughout the United States as well.
(Ryan Fetchko)Exactly.
And in the future, it's going to be a very dynamicand powerful tool
(22:02):
that we have to addresssome of the challenges that we've we've built ourselves into.
And a lot of areas of the nation
by, you know, rethinking
what it means to have access to transportation.
(Jennifer Foote)Yeah, you know, that that whole topic of first
and last mile goes back to,
you know, the capacity question,are we looking for bigger form factors?
(22:25):
And it really does depend on that use case.
And, you know, where are we connecting to and fromand how many people are looking to jump on there?
We had a great use case.
We were running in downtown Tampa and we had folks
coming in to the regional transportation center
there from Bus Rapid Transit and jumping off of the bussesand onto the shuttle
(22:48):
to go to their final destination there along the Marion StreetTransit Corridor.
So just another excellent
use case for these first and last mile solutions
to make sure folks are able to get where they need to go.
(Dave Mulholland)So you've got that crystal ball back out.
That was really, really good last time.
(23:09):
And and you're looking forward ten years.
How many vehicles do you seepeople having on the road at that point?
And how many different states are you operating in?
(Jennifer Foote)Well, we are going to be operating in all 50 states
and and everywhere across the globe for sure.
I think we'll have hundreds, if not thousands of vehicles
(23:31):
operating in the next few years even.
And you know, Ryan made a comment
in the very beginning of the conversationthat I want to circle back to you.
He said, the sky's the limit.
And that's true because we're even now looking at heliports
and inverted ports and autonomous
personal jets.
(23:52):
And so I think the next ten years is going back to in my
career and transformation,
we're really going to see a true transformation in transportation
the likes of which we haven'tseen since the invention of the motorized vehicle.
So I'm looking forward to being a part of thatand looking forward
(24:13):
to partnering very closely with you guys to make those hundreds
of thousands of vehicles on the road a reality.
(Dave Mulholland)It is exciting times in the transportation world.
Ironically, you can go tune in to the VHB
podcast series one, which actually was on the eVTOL vehicle.
And we actually did an interview with Lilium as part of that.
(24:35):
So it isit is a ever changing transportation market and where we're at.
Ryan, I certainly appreciate you joining and co-hosting this.
Jennifer, it's been a absolute pleasure
to have the conversation with you today.
I hope you'll keep us informed on what great advances
that Beep is taking in the AV technologiesand the new communities that you're planning on working
(24:58):
and operating in that you're making such a critical impactand in the future as well.
(Jennifer Foote and Ryan Fetchko)Absolutely. Thank you. My pleasure. It's been a pleasure, Dave.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.