July 22, 2022 • 14 mins
Viewpoints Podcast continues the conversation between VHB's Dave Mulholland and Steve Anderson with Kathleen Kewley of ESRI about digital twins and connected data environments. In part two, they discuss how communities can utilize digital twins to elevate sustainability for residents, employers, and visitors by evaluating social, economic, and climate impacts.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
(Mike Carragher)Viewpoints is VHB’s thought leadership platform,
where we share insights on critical issuesand emerging technologies in the AEC industry.
I’m Mike Carragher, President and CEO of VHB.
I’m excited to introduce VHB’sthought leaders and our client and partner
podcast participants—all future-focused thinkerswho want to reimagine the built environment.
(00:25):
I hope you’ll tune in often and leave inspired!
(Dave Mulholland)This is Dave Mulholland, VHB Chief Technology Officer, and I’m one of your hosts for Viewpoints
Podcast Episode Three- Digital Twinsand the Connected Data Environment.
I’m joined by co-hostSteve Anderson, VHB Vice President of Technology Services,
for the second half of our conversation with Kathleen Kewley,
(00:45):
the Director of Global Business Development for AEC at ESRI.
Today we’re talking more about the impact of digital twins
on equity and sustainability in the built environment.
Let's get back to the conversation.
ESRI is focusednot only on Digital Twins, but also on sustainability.
Uh, so, tying the two together, how does ESRI see
(01:07):
sustainability and resiliency being impacted by a Digital Twin?
(Kathleen Kewley)I think it goes back to the fact that,
you know, as much as we need a model of of the built
environment to understand, you know, are we building resilient
assets in infrastructure are we arewe are we designing this in the right way?
(01:30):
We have to have the context.
We have to have an understanding of
how we're also impacting that natural environment.
Our platform that as a platform helps to bring that togetherand to help
help people or
customers understand, you know, the potential impacts.
(01:53):
Right.
What if there is a climate event?
What if there's flooding? How is it going to be impacted?
How or how far away are we fromif we think about, you know, equity?
How are we building our community so that our our social equity
and people have access to, you know, grocery stores and transit?
You know, it's critical to have chip
(02:15):
and location as a part of any digital twin
because it really helps to understandhow do we build sustainably?
How do we design our communities in a waythat is going to help us
sustain our infrastructure and really be better into the future?
(Dave Mulholland)VHB has our resilience strategy, which really focuses on
(02:35):
driving sustainability and data and technologyinto everything we do.
So how does VHB see the digital twin impacting and helping
to really evaluate those complex decisionsof some of the use cases that you're seeing?
(Steve Anderson)You know, I think what a digital twin allows us to do is
look at all of those different types of impacts.
(02:56):
Similar to Kathleen saying,you know, one of the social impacts of a project
that's being built or constructed,what are the economic impacts that this is going to have
or what are the environmental impactsthat that that a project is going to have?
So taking that holistic view acrossall of those three different areas
allows us to have a much better understanding of the impactsand modify what we might be planning or designing.
(03:20):
(Dave Mulholland)It's exciting to see that a digital twin technology
actually help us to identifyand or evaluate the social impacts, climate action plans.
They're are extremely important to where all of our communities,if not the globe, are going.
You know, digital twin can actually helpbe a tool to inform agencies
and communities of their impactswithin the going to net neutral net zero.
(03:45):
(Kathleen Kewley)Absolutely.
It's the way of the future, right?
We have to be thinking that way.
If we're all going to we're all going to continue.
I think so.
(Dave Mulholland)One of the questions that often get is the scalability of this.
And to actually look at it within a rural areaor within an urban area.
And I'm seeing the digital twinsare not just within urban environments, you know.
(04:09):
Are you guys seeing similar experiences where a small rural area
can actually do a digital twinand or a larger area can do digital twin?
Or is it more so just going towards the larger urbanized area?
(Steve Anderson)I think some of the more of the early adopters that we have seen
have definitely been more of the urban areasthat have been thinking about this and implementing it.
(04:30):
But I think there's you know, there's absolutely no reason
why this can't be done across the rural area.
What what we're seeing happening inthose area is there might be a larger government
agency like a county or a regional planning agencythat might be helping lead that.
But much like other programs are actually built out for that
where they build the theyou know, the overall base for the digital twin
(04:54):
that is then something that the small, small communitycan now interact with and use.
And they only maintainsome of the components that are really important to them.
(Kathleen Kewley)I think it comes back to those use cases as well, right?
You can create a digital twin of a big, big areaor an individual asset,
maybe some renewable energy is goingin, you know, and there's construction happening
(05:18):
and you want to build a twin or,you know, so I think it really varies on what the outcomes are.
And I think it could apply to urban or rural areasand all different types of projects.
I think that's what's really interesting about the digital twinis that the Applic,
I think we're just scratching the surfacein terms of where it can go
(05:39):
and the applications are probably going to be,
you know, more than we ever considered in five to ten years.
(Steve Anderson)And it's also things like
colleges and universities and hospitalsthat are all other puzzle pieces
that fit into that and tie their systems into the broader areasthat they're involved in.
So it's really applicableto almost every every market and every geography.
(06:03):
(Dave Mulholland)How would it agency or partner actually get started doing a digital twin?
What would be the processthat you would suggest to them in terms of step by step
to say Here's how I would start to do a digital twin today?
(Steve Anderson)So I think one of the first things
you really need to do is to get input
from all of the potential stakeholders at a communityor an agency would have.
(06:27):
And it's it's really bringing all of those different stakeholdersgroups together.
So you could really understandthe use cases and the business problems
and the other problems and issues that a twin could help solve.
So that you could then look at what those the bigger picture isand then prioritize your efforts going forward.
And if you don't have that engagement with the whole community
(06:48):
of stakeholders,then you're not going to have the support to move it forward.
(Dave Mulholland)Don't let the data be the challenge for this.
Let the the use case that you're trying to solve
be the challenge as data is everywhereand data is available in so many different manners
and fashions,we can always find the data to support the use case.
(07:09):
So in terms of step by step, I would also say identifying
the use cases that need to be identified
as part of that through your collaborative,collaborative stakeholder engagement process.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah, definitely.
(Kathleen Kewley)And it's interesting when we think about communities because,
you know, the citizen also becomes a stakeholder.
And I think there is opportunityto engage the community and stake citizens
(07:32):
as part of the feedback process for
for government agencieswhen they're really thinking long term and making plans.
You know,
(Steve Anderson)I think that's one of the most important parts, quite honestly, in the end is is making sure
that you're providing somethingthat's going to provide value to the citizens.
(Steve Anderson)So you talk about the different pieces of technology.
(07:55):
Kathleen, ESRI is known for GIS.
How is GIS as integral into developing a digital twin?
(Kathleen Kewley)We see GIS as really being foundational to any digital twin,
and that's because the great connector is location.
Everything has location.
And so that allows us to start
(08:18):
to tie together all these digital twins
You know, every we we don't
promote that.
We are digital platform,
but we connect into different systems and different platforms
that then allow us to integrate and interconnect
(08:38):
multiple types of digital twinsand we see location as being key to that.
(Dave Mulholland)And we definitely see location being key to that as well.
I wanted to look forward.
VHB believes in being future ready, looking towards
tomorrow and saying,what can we do today to protect for tomorrow?
So what is in store for digital twinsin the AEC industry over the next five years?
(09:00):
Ten years? Where do you guys see it going?
(Kathleen Kewley)So it's interesting
and I know that Gartner has done some research around this
as starting to think about the digital twin of the person,
the digital twin of the person, and how that may interact
with the digital twin of the asset or,you know, the infrastructure, whatever that may be.
(09:25):
And I think that's really intriguingas we start to think about the opportunity
to understand how people feel and their emotions in a situation
or in the context of,you know, the type of office space they might be sitting in.
So if we think about new developments and, you know,
where people are happiestor or what types of what types of emotions that
(09:50):
that they're starting to feel based on certain thingsor, you know, what is the impact to a
to the person or persons
of a climate events or something that may happen?
Right.
How does that start to impact the people?
So I find that really fascinating.
I think it starts to open up a whole new sort of viewas to where we can go
(10:11):
and how we really start to tie in the citizen,
the community and the people part of the digital twin.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah, I think I agree with you completely, Kathleen.
I think if we think out five to ten years for now,
I think at the rate that technology grows
and gets enhanced, I think everything that we interactwith in the world on a day to day basis,
(10:36):
there will be a virtual representation of thatthat we will be able to interact with in a virtual world.
And it will allow us to better understand the impactsthat the decisions that we're making are going to have
and actually change those decisionsbefore we make those impacts that are there.
So that will give us the ability of a better place to live.
(Kathleen Kewley)Absolutely.
(Dave Mulholland)It is so exciting to see where digital technology is going.
(10:59):
I tell you, when I was growing up,I used to play the Sims City and, you know,
it was a video game for those that don't know it years agoand still around today.
You know, that allows you to test and see where you're impactingthe built build environment and what it does.
So, you know, I always ended up on the heavy infrastructure side
versus actually, you know, building out a strong community.
(11:21):
It's actually a lesson learned. Help me out today.
So in a closing question,I wanted to ask you about a very high level question.
You know, if you could implement a digital twin to solve the most
challenging problem in your community, what would that be?
(Kathleen Kewley)The city actually the city
of Honolulu started to do thiswhere they're starting to use digital twins
(11:44):
and starting to think more about how to plan for
different levels of housing. Right.
So that they can Hawaii, everybody,you know, a lot of vacation homes
which impact people's ability to actually who live there to buy
and to live and to get into get accommodations.
And so I think I would try to do something like that.
(12:07):
I think something that would socially help,you know, the community to address real problems.
Right.
And as to how to make sure everybody's housed andand in a safe space.
(Dave Mulholland)Steve, you got your crystal ball.
Where would you where would you take this?
(Steve Anderson)You know, I think, you know, it's an interesting question, Dave, having, you know, just moved down to the Florida area.
(12:28):
Now, again, seeing the growth rate that is going on down herewith housing construction that's going on.
And I every time I drive on the roads here,I just you know, have to sit back and think about and go,
you know, what impact is all of this constructionthat's going on so rapidly going to have on,
you know, the water systems the sewer systems,the education systems, the health in this area.
(12:50):
So I think just being able to take that bigger picture,look at what what decisions we're making today
are actually having on this community,whether it'll look like five to ten years would be something
that I'd love to help with doing here.
(Dave Mulholland)I appreciate that.
And so some are answer for me.
You know, I am very passionate about the community.
I've been in the central Florida market for about 48 yearsnow. And
(13:14):
background in transportationI would love to actually have a modular
being on the mobility side because I believewe need to enhance the mobility what we're doing.
But also looking at the climate action, you know,I think climate action
would be a great leading indicator for whereand how we do development.
Steve, very similar to what you're talking about,you know, tying in with the health impacts of a community.
(13:34):
We're all under a pandemic or we've been under a pandemic.
So seeing how the decisions we make todayactually impact the health of the community.
Right. And these are areas that we're focusing on at VHB.
And then the last one is all these decisionsbeing made with the balance on the equitable side.
You know, so as we make the decisionswithin these four different focus areas,
(13:57):
how would actually impact equitable distribution,what we do today?
So I would love to see it.
We're going to see it hopefully in the in the next year
to five years in our wish list, if you will.
Steve, Kathleen has been great speaking with both of you today.
I know the digital twin conversation will be ongoing as companieslike VHB
(14:17):
and ESRI continue to innovate in this spaceand for our viewpoints
listeners, don't forget to subscribe to VHB Viewpoints
podcast on SoundCloud to stay up to date on future episodes.
Thanks for joining us today.
(Mike Carragher)Viewpoints is VHB’s thought leadership platform,
where we share insights on critical issuesand emerging technologies in the AEC industry.
I’m Mike Carragher, President and CEO of VHB.
I’m excited to introduce VHB’sthought leaders and our client and partner
podcast participants—all future-focused thinkerswho want to reimagine the built environment.
(00:25):
I hope you’ll tune in often and leave inspired!
(Dave Mulholland)This is Dave Mulholland, VHB Chief Technology Officer, and I’m one of your hosts for Viewpoints
Podcast Episode Three- Digital Twinsand the Connected Data Environment.
I’m joined by co-hostSteve Anderson, VHB Vice President of Technology Services,
for the second half of our conversation with Kathleen Kewley,
(00:45):
the Director of Global Business Development for AEC at ESRI.
Today we’re talking more about the impact of digital twins
on equity and sustainability in the built environment.
Let's get back to the conversation.
ESRI is focusednot only on Digital Twins, but also on sustainability.
Uh, so, tying the two together, how does ESRI see
(01:07):
sustainability and resiliency being impacted by a Digital Twin?
(Kathleen Kewley)I think it goes back to the fact that,
you know, as much as we need a model of of the built
environment to understand, you know, are we building resilient
assets in infrastructure are we arewe are we designing this in the right way?
(01:30):
We have to have the context.
We have to have an understanding of
how we're also impacting that natural environment.
Our platform that as a platform helps to bring that togetherand to help
help people or
customers understand, you know, the potential impacts.
(01:53):
Right.
What if there is a climate event?
What if there's flooding? How is it going to be impacted?
How or how far away are we fromif we think about, you know, equity?
How are we building our community so that our our social equity
and people have access to, you know, grocery stores and transit?
You know, it's critical to have chip
(02:15):
and location as a part of any digital twin
because it really helps to understandhow do we build sustainably?
How do we design our communities in a waythat is going to help us
sustain our infrastructure and really be better into the future?
(Dave Mulholland)VHB has our resilience strategy, which really focuses on
(02:35):
driving sustainability and data and technologyinto everything we do.
So how does VHB see the digital twin impacting and helping
to really evaluate those complex decisionsof some of the use cases that you're seeing?
(Steve Anderson)You know, I think what a digital twin allows us to do is
look at all of those different types of impacts.
(02:56):
Similar to Kathleen saying,you know, one of the social impacts of a project
that's being built or constructed,what are the economic impacts that this is going to have
or what are the environmental impactsthat that that a project is going to have?
So taking that holistic view acrossall of those three different areas
allows us to have a much better understanding of the impactsand modify what we might be planning or designing.
(03:20):
(Dave Mulholland)It's exciting to see that a digital twin technology
actually help us to identifyand or evaluate the social impacts, climate action plans.
They're are extremely important to where all of our communities,if not the globe, are going.
You know, digital twin can actually helpbe a tool to inform agencies
and communities of their impactswithin the going to net neutral net zero.
(03:45):
(Kathleen Kewley)Absolutely.
It's the way of the future, right?
We have to be thinking that way.
If we're all going to we're all going to continue.
I think so.
(Dave Mulholland)One of the questions that often get is the scalability of this.
And to actually look at it within a rural areaor within an urban area.
And I'm seeing the digital twinsare not just within urban environments, you know.
(04:09):
Are you guys seeing similar experiences where a small rural area
can actually do a digital twinand or a larger area can do digital twin?
Or is it more so just going towards the larger urbanized area?
(Steve Anderson)I think some of the more of the early adopters that we have seen
have definitely been more of the urban areasthat have been thinking about this and implementing it.
(04:30):
But I think there's you know, there's absolutely no reason
why this can't be done across the rural area.
What what we're seeing happening inthose area is there might be a larger government
agency like a county or a regional planning agencythat might be helping lead that.
But much like other programs are actually built out for that
where they build the theyou know, the overall base for the digital twin
(04:54):
that is then something that the small, small communitycan now interact with and use.
And they only maintainsome of the components that are really important to them.
(Kathleen Kewley)I think it comes back to those use cases as well, right?
You can create a digital twin of a big, big areaor an individual asset,
maybe some renewable energy is goingin, you know, and there's construction happening
(05:18):
and you want to build a twin or,you know, so I think it really varies on what the outcomes are.
And I think it could apply to urban or rural areasand all different types of projects.
I think that's what's really interesting about the digital twinis that the Applic,
I think we're just scratching the surfacein terms of where it can go
(05:39):
and the applications are probably going to be,
you know, more than we ever considered in five to ten years.
(Steve Anderson)And it's also things like
colleges and universities and hospitalsthat are all other puzzle pieces
that fit into that and tie their systems into the broader areasthat they're involved in.
So it's really applicableto almost every every market and every geography.
(06:03):
(Dave Mulholland)How would it agency or partner actually get started doing a digital twin?
What would be the processthat you would suggest to them in terms of step by step
to say Here's how I would start to do a digital twin today?
(Steve Anderson)So I think one of the first things
you really need to do is to get input
from all of the potential stakeholders at a communityor an agency would have.
(06:27):
And it's it's really bringing all of those different stakeholdersgroups together.
So you could really understandthe use cases and the business problems
and the other problems and issues that a twin could help solve.
So that you could then look at what those the bigger picture isand then prioritize your efforts going forward.
And if you don't have that engagement with the whole community
(06:48):
of stakeholders,then you're not going to have the support to move it forward.
(Dave Mulholland)Don't let the data be the challenge for this.
Let the the use case that you're trying to solve
be the challenge as data is everywhereand data is available in so many different manners
and fashions,we can always find the data to support the use case.
(07:09):
So in terms of step by step, I would also say identifying
the use cases that need to be identified
as part of that through your collaborative,collaborative stakeholder engagement process.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah, definitely.
(Kathleen Kewley)And it's interesting when we think about communities because,
you know, the citizen also becomes a stakeholder.
And I think there is opportunityto engage the community and stake citizens
(07:32):
as part of the feedback process for
for government agencieswhen they're really thinking long term and making plans.
You know,
(Steve Anderson)I think that's one of the most important parts, quite honestly, in the end is is making sure
that you're providing somethingthat's going to provide value to the citizens.
(Steve Anderson)So you talk about the different pieces of technology.
(07:55):
Kathleen, ESRI is known for GIS.
How is GIS as integral into developing a digital twin?
(Kathleen Kewley)We see GIS as really being foundational to any digital twin,
and that's because the great connector is location.
Everything has location.
And so that allows us to start
(08:18):
to tie together all these digital twins
You know, every we we don't
promote that.
We are digital platform,
but we connect into different systems and different platforms
that then allow us to integrate and interconnect
(08:38):
multiple types of digital twinsand we see location as being key to that.
(Dave Mulholland)And we definitely see location being key to that as well.
I wanted to look forward.
VHB believes in being future ready, looking towards
tomorrow and saying,what can we do today to protect for tomorrow?
So what is in store for digital twinsin the AEC industry over the next five years?
(09:00):
Ten years? Where do you guys see it going?
(Kathleen Kewley)So it's interesting
and I know that Gartner has done some research around this
as starting to think about the digital twin of the person,
the digital twin of the person, and how that may interact
with the digital twin of the asset or,you know, the infrastructure, whatever that may be.
(09:25):
And I think that's really intriguingas we start to think about the opportunity
to understand how people feel and their emotions in a situation
or in the context of,you know, the type of office space they might be sitting in.
So if we think about new developments and, you know,
where people are happiestor or what types of what types of emotions that
(09:50):
that they're starting to feel based on certain thingsor, you know, what is the impact to a
to the person or persons
of a climate events or something that may happen?
Right.
How does that start to impact the people?
So I find that really fascinating.
I think it starts to open up a whole new sort of viewas to where we can go
(10:11):
and how we really start to tie in the citizen,
the community and the people part of the digital twin.
(Steve Anderson)Yeah, I think I agree with you completely, Kathleen.
I think if we think out five to ten years for now,
I think at the rate that technology grows
and gets enhanced, I think everything that we interactwith in the world on a day to day basis,
(10:36):
there will be a virtual representation of thatthat we will be able to interact with in a virtual world.
And it will allow us to better understand the impactsthat the decisions that we're making are going to have
and actually change those decisionsbefore we make those impacts that are there.
So that will give us the ability of a better place to live.
(Kathleen Kewley)Absolutely.
(Dave Mulholland)It is so exciting to see where digital technology is going.
(10:59):
I tell you, when I was growing up,I used to play the Sims City and, you know,
it was a video game for those that don't know it years agoand still around today.
You know, that allows you to test and see where you're impactingthe built build environment and what it does.
So, you know, I always ended up on the heavy infrastructure side
versus actually, you know, building out a strong community.
(11:21):
It's actually a lesson learned. Help me out today.
So in a closing question,I wanted to ask you about a very high level question.
You know, if you could implement a digital twin to solve the most
challenging problem in your community, what would that be?
(Kathleen Kewley)The city actually the city
of Honolulu started to do thiswhere they're starting to use digital twins
(11:44):
and starting to think more about how to plan for
different levels of housing. Right.
So that they can Hawaii, everybody,you know, a lot of vacation homes
which impact people's ability to actually who live there to buy
and to live and to get into get accommodations.
And so I think I would try to do something like that.
(12:07):
I think something that would socially help,you know, the community to address real problems.
Right.
And as to how to make sure everybody's housed andand in a safe space.
(Dave Mulholland)Steve, you got your crystal ball.
Where would you where would you take this?
(Steve Anderson)You know, I think, you know, it's an interesting question, Dave, having, you know, just moved down to the Florida area.
(12:28):
Now, again, seeing the growth rate that is going on down herewith housing construction that's going on.
And I every time I drive on the roads here,I just you know, have to sit back and think about and go,
you know, what impact is all of this constructionthat's going on so rapidly going to have on,
you know, the water systems the sewer systems,the education systems, the health in this area.
(12:50):
So I think just being able to take that bigger picture,look at what what decisions we're making today
are actually having on this community,whether it'll look like five to ten years would be something
that I'd love to help with doing here.
(Dave Mulholland)I appreciate that.
And so some are answer for me.
You know, I am very passionate about the community.
I've been in the central Florida market for about 48 yearsnow. And
(13:14):
background in transportationI would love to actually have a modular
being on the mobility side because I believewe need to enhance the mobility what we're doing.
But also looking at the climate action, you know,I think climate action
would be a great leading indicator for whereand how we do development.
Steve, very similar to what you're talking about,you know, tying in with the health impacts of a community.
(13:34):
We're all under a pandemic or we've been under a pandemic.
So seeing how the decisions we make todayactually impact the health of the community.
Right. And these are areas that we're focusing on at VHB.
And then the last one is all these decisionsbeing made with the balance on the equitable side.
You know, so as we make the decisionswithin these four different focus areas,
(13:57):
how would actually impact equitable distribution,what we do today?
So I would love to see it.
We're going to see it hopefully in the in the next year
to five years in our wish list, if you will.
Steve, Kathleen has been great speaking with both of you today.
I know the digital twin conversation will be ongoing as companieslike VHB
(14:17):
and ESRI continue to innovate in this spaceand for our viewpoints
listeners, don't forget to subscribe to VHB Viewpoints
podcast on SoundCloud to stay up to date on future episodes.
Thanks for joining us today.
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