April 29, 2025 • 51 mins
Y'all -- put your hands together for my good friend Sam Johnson!! This convo will live rent free in my head for a WHILE because it parallels so perfectly with similar messages the Lord has been sending my way over the last few months.
Sam and I dive deep into:
- How Sam's trust in the Lord to provide has always paid off in both his career and life
- How Sam has overcome feelings of insecurity and unbelonging
- What a life of abiding with Jesus looks and feels like
If you're not sure where you stand with God or you're wrestling with feelings of not enoughness, this episode is truly for you -- tune in and get your tissues ready :')
Reach out to Sam: sam@vigilanthope.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
EmLed (00:24):
Alright everyone, welcome back to Wrestling With Life.
I am your host, EM led, and I'm so,so excited because my friend Sam
Johnson is here on the podcast today.
Welcome, Sam.
Sam Johnson (00:35):
Yes, Emily, thanks so much for having me.
I am so, so excited to be here.
What an honor it is to be on yourpodcast and, To to have the wrestling
with life sign right in between us.
I mean, how cool is this?
Hey.
Yeah.
Cute setup, right?
This is awesome.
Amazing setup.
Yes.
Yeah.
Thank
EmLed (00:49):
you.
Yeah.
I'm so excited that you're here and I'mso excited to have you on the mic speaking
because since we met, you are someone who.
I just really, really admire theway that you move through life and
your values and just your truth.
I really respect it and I'm excitedto share that with people here today.
So for anyone who doesn't knowyou, I'd love to give a little
(01:10):
background on what you do.
So you are an urban missionary?
Mm-hmm.
And the community coordinator of themobile ministry at Vigilant Hope.
Mm-hmm.
Here in Wilmington, north.
Carolina, and I would love foryou to explain a little bit
about what Vigilant Hope is.
That's actually the organizationthat we met through.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Let the people know whatVigilant Hope's all about.
Sam Johnson (01:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, vigilant Hope's anonprofit organization here
in Wilmington, North Carolina.
There's a lot that I could talk about,but my two minute one liner, the best
description I can give for what isVigilant Hope is we are essentially
an organization that's trying tohelp bridge the gap between the local
church and the margins of our city.
EmLed (01:49):
Yeah.
Sam Johnson (01:49):
Uh, so we are strategically present and neglecting
neighborhoods and communities.
So this could include, uh,neighborhoods that are, uh,
food insecure under-resourced.
This also includes, uh, folkswho are experiencing homelessness
that are unsheltered or.
Or living in shelters.
Uh, we're strategicallypresent in those spaces.
Just getting to know people, buildingrelationships with them, and really
(02:11):
learning what the needs are of the city.
And then we're also strategicallypresent in churches that want to help
and don't necessarily know how to help.
Hmm.
And we are communicating those needs thatwe, that we know through relationship
with, uh, folks in the margins.
Yeah.
Uh, so we're trying to help bridgethat gap and, I guess like in a
broad sense view, we, uh, we're thebridge between crisis and compassion.
EmLed (02:32):
Mm.
Sam Johnson (02:32):
That's
EmLed (02:33):
beautiful.
Sam Johnson (02:33):
So that's who we are.
Uh, we do that through communitygatherings, uh, where we eat together.
We, we train, uh, churches, uh, wedo immersive learning opportunities,
which I know you know very much about.
Very
EmLed (02:44):
well.
Sam Johnson (02:45):
We also have a coffee shop, which is a super
easy way to support the mission.
Just buying a cup of coffee or doingyour homework at our coffee shop.
Uh, those funds go back towardsoutreach in the community and support
the mission in any way or form.
Mm-hmm.
I
EmLed (02:58):
love it.
Sam Johnson (02:58):
That's my, uh.
Two minute pitch.
EmLed (03:00):
That was beautiful.
Well, well said.
Thank you.
I love vigilant hope I am so, so in awe ofwhat you guys are doing here in the city.
Thank you.
And yeah, that's how we got connected.
So I, I did the poverty simulation mm-hmm.
Which is the immersive experiencethat you're talking about.
I'd love for you to explain alittle bit about what the poverty
simulation is and how we met.
Sam Johnson (03:20):
Sure, absolutely.
So our poverty simulation is, weonly do it about twice a year.
It's a 48 hour immersiveexperience of what.
It's like to live unsheltered.
Of all the things we do, it's probablythe most impactful weekend, uh,
we host of all of our trainings.
Instead of learning from an urbanmissionary like myself or a staff
(03:40):
member doing a presentation, uh, you'relearning by being tangibly in the shoes
of what it's like to battle poverty.
We, we often believe that folks who are.
Who are in poverty have thebest knowledge and understanding
of what the solutions are.
And by, by just doing this experience, uh.
(04:01):
You're pretty much going througha weekend of suffering with,
with the hopes of deeper empathyand understanding for folks.
Uh, because how am I an outsider to knowwhat homelessness is when I've never, I
don't have any lived experience with it.
Yes.
So it's, it's like a twoday, experience where you.
You get some of the lived realitiesand experiences that folks,
uh, living unsheltered have.
(04:23):
Mm. And we do our best as a staffto be as, as representative, uh,
as we can to a lot of the thingsand testimonies that we see.
When we ask people, whatdo you wish people knew?
EmLed (04:33):
Yeah.
Sam Johnson (04:34):
That are that are experiencing homelessness.
We try to.
Incorporate those things into thattraining, into that experience
because lots of times, we'll,we'll think we know what people
are, where they're coming from.
Yeah.
But until you, uh, until you geta little lived experience with
it, uh, you'll be shocked by, uh.
All the layers that come with it.
Oh my gosh.
EmLed (04:53):
Can confirm.
Sam Johnson (04:54):
Yeah.
So Emily, I met you.
Uh, what's also funny aboutthis experience is, uh, I never
recommend it to anybody unless theyknow us and have a little bit of
trust and relationship with us.
So like I encourage people to get afront door with us through maybe a
community gathering or running ourshower trailer for a few weeks or
months before the simulation, but.
(05:14):
Emily, you just met one of my friendsat a coffee shop named Blair and
Blair's like, Hey, you need to do thispoverty simulation out of the blue.
And I remember just talking to you andlike, I know we're just meeting on the
phone and I would love for you to dothis, but I also wanna warn you that
like, this is a really hard weekend.
Yeah.
And you just had so muchcourage and commitment and
(05:34):
you're like, I wanna dive in.
Uh, I see you as a, as a doer, Emily,and I am a doer and, I was like, okay.
Just, uh, I got it to forewarnyou, but I will let you, uh, jump
in and I'm so glad that you did.
EmLed (05:46):
Yeah.
Well, I'm so glad that I did too,and I appreciated the warning.
Yeah.
And I appreciate you looking out for me.
But man, I can really confirmeverything that you're saying about
the poverty simulation, growingempathy for the homeless population.
You truly have no clue.
Mm. What like the ins and outs of it.
Like you can maybe imagine okay, you know,sleeping outside for a night or you know,
(06:08):
not going without a meal or something.
Like, you can imaginewhat that might be like.
Mm-hmm.
But you don't realize how deeply itaffects you emotionally, spiritually,
physically, and then how that impactsyour decision making processes and
your ability to move through the world.
How someone who's not experiencingthat would, so yeah, that,
that experience honestly.
(06:30):
Was so transformative for me and changedeverything for me, and I could not
move the same way through life that Ihad been after having that experience.
So I just wanna commend Vigilant hopefor not only that the poverty simulation,
but just the work that you guys aredoing in, in the city and the community
and loving on people and, you know,sharing Jesus and sharing resources.
(06:52):
It's just incredible.
And if you're a Wilmington localand you haven't checked Vigilant
Hope out, go to the coffeeshop, the Roastery, go to a sat.
Or day breakfast and shower, go to apotluck on Thursday nights and just
have a first touch with the community.
It will be life changing for you.
Sam Johnson (07:08):
Yeah.
Well, thanks so much, Emily.
We, uh, we're, we could not dowhat we do without people like you.
Mm-hmm.
Like really.
Thank you.
We're a community, we're a family.
Everyone belongs.
I don't care what yourbank account looks like.
Where you slept last nightwhere you're coming from.
Uh, we're just a community of.
Folks from diverse walks of lifecoming together to, to get to know
each other and build relationships.
(07:29):
Mm-hmm.
And we do that because, uh, whenwe look at the life of Jesus, we,
we saw that he, he had everyone atthe table tax collectors sinners.
EmLed (07:40):
Yeah.
The
Sam Johnson (07:40):
religious institution.
Mm. Zealots, you name it.
Uh, they were at the table and wejust like to follow his example.
EmLed (07:48):
Mm. So well said.
I love that.
Sam Johnson (07:50):
Thank you.
EmLed (07:50):
So I really wanted to include you on this specific series of my
podcast because I'm sitting down witha bunch of local people, many of them
being business owners, and you arenot necessarily a business owner.
Mm-hmm.
But the path.
That you've chosen is so incrediblyunique and against the grain of a
typical, you know, go to college andcome out and this is your career path.
(08:11):
So I would love to just.
Take me back to the moment when you knewyou wanted to be in ministry and you
knew that you wanted to take this path.
Mm-hmm.
And maybe like the thoughts andfeelings that came up for you when
you started getting internships withchurch or when you know, you had your
first experience with Vigilant Hope.
Like what did Decidingto take that specific.
(08:32):
Career path in life.
Yeah.
What led you to that point?
Sam Johnson (08:36):
That's a great question.
You know, I came into collegenot knowing what I wanted to do.
I, I thought about criminal justice.
I, I went in undecided and I. Kind oflike my testimony was my, my freshman
year, uh, I, I, I grew up a believerin Jesus and, and a churchgoer, but
I think like probably my freshmanand sophomore year of college was
(08:58):
when I really, really strengthenedthat personal relationship with him.
Yeah.
You know, my freshman year I remember.
Kind of had two different communities.
I had, uh, uh, I had a friend whohad welcomed me into the, this, uh,
college ministry called Overflow.
And mm, that was a partof my freshman year.
And I'd also had this dorm communitywhere I had a lot of friends,
(09:19):
uh, people I knew, 'cause I wouldsee 'em every day in the dorm.
And I was kind of like split 5050 between these two communities.
You know, one, I was, uh, oneacceptance was freely given.
Mm. And just, uh.
Just your presence alone was welcomed.
And then the other one, like, aslong as you're kind of following,
doing the things that everyoneelse is doing, you, you belong.
(09:40):
Yeah.
And I remember like towards the endof my freshman year, just having a
dilemma of you're climbing two ladders.
The, the higher you get up eachone, the farther your legs get
split and you gotta choose a ladder.
And I just remember I was like.
I've never experienced, uh, communityand, and a deep sense of belonging like
I have in, in, in this church community.
(10:02):
So I ended up, justreally, really going deep.
I, I got to meet a lot of people, a lotof staff through the college ministry.
And it was actually other internsat that time that, uh, said, Sam, we
really think that you should intern.
We, we see something in you.
It wasn't even something I saw in myselfand I was like, you're, y'all are crazy.
What are you talking about?
You want me to intern next year?
EmLed (10:23):
Yeah.
Sam Johnson (10:24):
And, I prayed on it, thought about it, and just took the, took the
leap of faith and ended up interningwith the church for, for two years.
Uh, interned with the, the care ministry.
So, uh, we kind of in care, there's all,there's all different forms of care.
Uh, there's, you know, justwalking with people and.
Different circumstances of life.
(10:45):
There's physical care of, Hey, I, Ineed someone to, I don't have a truck.
I need someone to help me movefrom point A to point B. Sure.
There's, Spiritual care, uh, emotional,I mean, so I really got a taste and,
and picture of what does it look liketo care for people and to love them.
And in this, uh, season and internship, Ireally saw my giftings kind of bubble up.
(11:06):
I learned a lot about myselfthat I. Hadn't necessarily known.
Growing up some of my greatest strengthswere, were caring for people, uh,
loving them and, and, and compassion.
Hmm.
So, uh, through this internship,I, I didn't even know what social
work was, but I had had a friendwho was studying social work and I
was like, tell me more about that.
What even is that?
And when they explainedit to me, I remember.
(11:28):
Just being like, thatsounds right up my alley.
Yeah.
Like, I really need to look into this.
Yeah.
So sophomore year of college endedup applying for the Bachelor's of
Social Work program at UC Wilmingtonwas still interning at the time, so,
uh, went through junior year in thesame program, was still interning
with the church during the same time.
And, kind of had this, uh, senior yearopportunity where in, in the social work
(11:51):
program, you, you have to have a fullyear internship with a local organization
that's kind of doing social work related.
Activities.
So mine was vigilant hope.
I remember that I had had thispassion for ministry through
interning for years, and my heartwas just really stirred in ministry.
Mm. And I had this passion for socialwork and here comes this internship.
(12:13):
That's a beautiful blend of both.
And I was like, I wanna apply.
Hopefully I get this internshipand Lord be willing, I got it.
Yeah.
And interned for a whole year.
Really got to know, uh, a lot of ourneighbors who are unsheltered really
that whole year was centered aroundbuilding relationships, rapport, and
trust with uh, uh, folks on the margins.
(12:35):
Mm. And just getting to know them,getting to know their stories.
Learning, learning aboutdifferent resources.
Uh, becoming a, a reallystrong social worker.
Yeah.
But also, uh, because we are afaith-based nonprofit, just learning
a lot about, how do the Bible how doesthe Bible and how do the scriptures,
uh, define poverty and, and how do weas a local body of Christ really get
(12:58):
involved in, in our cities, in our.
In our nation, in ourworld, uh, with poverty.
'cause there's, in the scriptures,there's over 2000, passages
about poverty or justice Oh wow.
In total.
And it was just a really amazingway to real amazing opportunity
where my education, my interests,my giftings all kind of match.
(13:19):
And I was like.
It just made sense.
It's gonna make sense.
Yeah.
And, uh, took the leaveof faith and graduated.
Uh, I was like, okay, am I gonnacontinue on or am I gonna look elsewhere?
And I remember there was a differentopportunity that was offered a different
job opportunity at Vigilant Hope that itsounded interesting, but I don't think
it really resonated with my gifting well.
(13:41):
And, after a talk with the communityengagement team, they're like,
okay, we have two staff members.
We're running four gatherings a week.
We have about 150 people we're seeingon the weekly that are in crisis
and poverty, and we need some extrasupport and we really, uh, would
love to offer you this position.
And I just said, I. Yes.
EmLed (13:58):
Yay.
So there you go.
Sam Johnson (14:00):
That's, uh, that's my, uh, story from, from college to here.
There's a lot more in the InBetween,but in a broad sense, that's,
that's how I got to where I am.
Yeah,
EmLed (14:09):
that was well explained.
Thank you for sharing all that.
Sam Johnson (14:11):
Absolutely.
EmLed (14:11):
I'm really curious about.
What was internally happening inyour heart, in your mind, as you
were making these steps closer andcloser towards the calling that
you felt God had on your life?
Mm-hmm.
For me, at least, I can speakto my own experience, recently
started my own business.
It has been.
A simultaneous mixture of fear andexcitement and energy and feeling
(14:37):
drained, roadblocks and successes.
It's been a mix of a lot.
So I'm curious to know for you,what roadblocks or obstacles or
fears or limiting beliefs, or maybeeven just a struggle to trust God.
Did anything like that come up asyou were pursuing this calling?
Sam Johnson (14:55):
Absolutely.
100%.
(16:18):
I think some of those beliefsthat I had to really fight
against were, I'm not qualified.
Mm. Uh, I don't know enough.
Yeah.
Those were real things that I, I felt and experienced and
I really had to give myself thegrace of you're just outta college.
Uh, you're, you're likekindergarten into adulthood.
Yeah, pretty much.
For real.
I mean, you, you go throughK through 12 and then you
(16:40):
graduate college and then it's.
Back to kindergarten again into adulthood.
So I to give myself the grace of, there'sgonna be a lot that you don't know.
EmLed (16:48):
Yeah.
Sam Johnson (16:48):
And that's okay.
You're absolutely, it's gonna take, uh,at least six months with any job to.
Even kind of get your feet wet.
EmLed (16:57):
Yeah.
In
Sam Johnson (16:57):
a sense.
EmLed (16:58):
For sure.
Sam Johnson (16:58):
So, uh, and I remember they encouraged us that, and with that in the
social work program, because when you'reworking with people, especially in crisis,
you're like, I don't know what to say.
I don't know what to refer to.
Uh, I don't know howto tell this person No.
When they see me as their only hope.
Mm. Like I remember there was just alot of uncertainty and fear of failure.
And I just from a young start.
(17:19):
Had to accept like failure isgonna be a part of my story.
I'm gonna disappoint somebody.
I'm going to mess up and.
There's grace for that.
Yeah.
Like there is so much grace for that.
Like I, uh, as long as you, yourecognize it, you learn from it.
I mean, I, I think you, I don'tthink you can have a, a business
(17:41):
journey or any professional journeywith, without making mistakes.
Absolutely.
And just holding that grace andcompassion for yourself, especially
in those early years is so important.
Oh, yeah.
Also with this job at Vigilant Hope a,a kind of a. Roadblock at the beginning
was, uh, as urban missionaries, like, Idon't receive any salary from Vigilant
(18:02):
Hope so everything that I I makecomes from the donation of others.
Yeah.
Uh, I raise my own support asa missionary, which is, which
is common with missionariesoverseas and all across the world.
But, uh, even in urban missions,you know, we're, we're dependent
on others and can't do our workwithout, without the help of others.
And I remember when I first, uh,graduated college, I, I, I didn't
(18:25):
know anything about that process.
I was like, I've never done this before.
I don't wanna ask people for money.
Right.
Uh, how is this gonna affect myrelationships in my community?
Right?
All the things bubbled up and Italked it through with, with people
who had been doing it for years.
Uh, it it was very foreign to me.
Yeah.
Uh, I remember.
Loving the work and having my heartin it, but also, uh, not knowing
(18:48):
if that was gonna be doable.
Yeah.
And it was very real and I prayed on it.
And, uh, where I kind of landedwas, uh, I'm gonna give it a shot.
Uh, it could go through the roof.
Yeah.
It could not work.
And that's okay.
At least I, at least I tried.
And all, all in that I just, Ikind of had this, revelation in
(19:09):
my own faith, walk of the Lord.
Just saying, Sam, I want youto give me what you have.
Uh, just like the discipleswith, with feeding the 5,000.
Mm-hmm.
Of like, Lord, how arewe gonna feed the 5,000?
We have like, I don't remember whatit was, seven loaves, two fishes,
or five loaves and two fishes.
Yeah, that's right.
And he is like.
Gimme what you have and,and let me multiply it.
Oh.
(19:29):
So I remember like, uh,I cast my nets wide.
I I started sending out letters to justpeople I knew and which didn't seem
like a lot I did not think of, I. Therewas just not a lot of people to think
I thought about to, to send letters to,and I cast my nets as wide as I can.
Yeah.
Whether I had met this person atthe grocery store, uh, last week, or
whether I'd known him for 10 years,you know, I just cast my nets wide.
(19:52):
I, I didn't pressure anybody to give.
I just said I. You can partner with methrough giving, but you can also partner
with me through, through prayer, throughadvocating like if you know of someone
that would be interested in supportingthis, like just sharing that message.
Yeah.
And uh, I became a really goodletter writer for like six
or five or six months, and I.
Within five or six months, uh, the Lordjust really, really multiplied what I had.
(20:16):
Wow.
Through other people's sharingabout it and advocating.
And I got a message from our HR that,Hey, you've got enough to come on staff.
And, that was some of the best news ever.
Yeah, because I was, I was, I waslike, it's a lot of hard work.
A lot of work.
Yeah.
A lot of letter writing andbut man, how faithful was God
to, to bring me through it.
Wow.
And something I thoughtwould be impossible for me.
(20:38):
He, Just showed us.
He made it happen.
He made it happen.
And when we walk with him in trust,he's, he's faithful to answer.
EmLed (20:46):
Oh, Sam, that's so good.
Wow.
Praise God.
So, yeah.
Were you surprised at certain peoplewho gave that you were like, oh my
gosh, I never thought you would give.
Sam Johnson (20:53):
Oh yeah.
It's totally upside down.
Yeah.
People who you think would give, uh,wouldn't give and people you never thought
would give, would give so interesting.
And it's very interesting.
And, you know, whether someonegives or not gives, I mean, there's.
EmLed (21:06):
No judgment.
Sam Johnson (21:07):
I mean no judgment there.
But I was really surprised.
Yeah.
You know, uh, it just kind ofshowed you like how the Lord
works through different people.
Yeah.
And you know, like asking for,for, for money and finances
is, is an uncomfortable thing.
EmLed (21:20):
Yeah.
Sam Johnson (21:21):
But it was something that the disciples did.
It was something that, youknow, Jesus says like, ask
and ask and you shall receive.
Mm-hmm.
And knock and the door willbe answered, come, come to me.
And but we gotta have the, we gottahave the truth that, of an understanding
of, I'm not self-sufficient.
Hmm.
This is not my calling my job, my,this, this is something that people can
(21:44):
participate in, uh, through supporting me.
I couldn't do this work withoutthose people by my side.
Right.
And, uh, I remember an encouragementthat, uh, Laura, my, my boss
had told me at the time was.
Like, so many people are so busy intoday's world, they don't have the
time to volunteer to go out and goon a missions trip or do the things.
(22:05):
But they're very successful financially.
Yeah.
This gives those people opportunities tobe a, a part of something that they don't
necessarily have the chance to themselves.
EmLed (22:15):
Right.
Sam Johnson (22:15):
And she had told me a story of a, a person that got mad that
they didn't, she didn't ask him, uh, ather, at her church growing up of like,
you robbed me of my opportunity to,to help you to, to support you, yeah.
And give me an opportunity to,to be a, a part of something
bigger than, than myself.
Mm. And I just, I thought of that and Iwas like, it, it really is a beautiful
(22:36):
way to To know that I, I wake up everyday to my job doing what I do because
of the grace of God through others.
Mm. Only that I wouldnot have a position here.
I would not have, uh, ajob if it wasn't for them.
Mm. Um, And they are just as a part ofeverything that I've done than I am.
'cause I couldn't do it without him.
(22:57):
So it, it really opened my eyes towhat, what even is the kingdom of God.
It's, it's a kingdom ofgiving and receiving.
All of us need to receive as humans.
all of us are made to giveand contribute as well.
Yeah.
And it just gave me a really, uh,beautiful picture of what that looks like.
EmLed (23:15):
Mm. That is so beautiful.
I wanna dig into just kind oflike your values and your mindset
and the way that you see theworld and God and other people.
Mm-hmm.
I think something that I notice alot with Gen Z, early millennials.
Mm-hmm.
Especially those of uswho grew up on screens.
The message of self iswoven into our culture.
(23:38):
Yeah.
We all know that.
Yeah, and I don't think any of us are.
Perfect at, yeah.
Not getting caught up in ourselves.
You know, at the end of theday, we are responsible to keep
ourselves alive and provide, right.
That's right.
So you do have to think ofyourself in some capacity.
Absolutely.
Can't pour from an empty cup.
Obviously we both know that.
Yeah.
However, I've noticed in myself before I came back to the Lord, and
(24:01):
I notice it in a lot of people that Iknow is the spirit of maybe entitlement.
Sure.
Maybe.
Not trusting God, maybe thinking,you know, I'm a good person,
so I deserve good things.
And I see, you know, my friends havethis or that, or my coworker has this
or that, and I don't, but I deserve it.
Mm-hmm.
And I notice that many of us canslip into this victim mentality.
(24:25):
Sure.
And that bleeds out intohow we treat others, the way
that we show up in the world.
So.
Something that I've always noticedin you that I admire so much is
your humility is your grace, isyour trust in the Lord to provide.
But we don't pop outthe womb with that Sure.
Ingrained in us.
(24:45):
You know, we're, we'reselfish right out the womb.
So I'm so interested to knowfor you, like, what is it?
Maybe it's mostly just your faith, maybeyou've always kind of had that, but was
there a time in your life where maybe youfound yourself in that victim mentality
and you had to make shifts to get outof it and, and how did you do that?
Sam Johnson (25:06):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think especially before my just kindof ra I had a really radical encounter
with God in my sophomore year of college.
Yeah.
So, uh, kind of like my, this was kindof the season where I really found
and came to know the love of God.
Yeah.
(25:26):
It was kind of a really cool story.
I, yeah, sure.
It was, it was a seasonof deep insecurity for me.
I, I kind of felt like Ididn't really belong anywhere.
I'd felt, uh, very alone.
And I just remember I didn't reallyhave a lot of confidence and, you
go to the same church I go to.
Yeah.
But, uh, shout out for, youknow, they do my one word.
Yeah.
My one word.
Um, So that year that I was doingthis, I, it was my first time
(25:48):
ever participating in my one word.
And I remember, I remember justsitting with God and, and saying,
Lord, I, I feel all this insecurity.
I feel like that I, Idon't belong anywhere.
And that my greatest indicatorsof worth are the things that I
do and I have to prove myself.
Mm. And whether that's, uh, throughyour body image, through your, uh.
(26:08):
Through, uh, your success on a, inschool or performance on a certain
thing it was this lie that yourgreatest indicators of worth and
value are the things you produce.
Hmm.
And I, I felt myselfdeeply, deeply lost in that.
Yeah.
I was never confident because when yourworth is tied to the, your performance,
(26:30):
you're always having to prove, always.
You're always having to make,uh, you're always having to
maintain a certain status quo.
EmLed (26:38):
Yep.
Sam Johnson (26:39):
And it's exhausting.
I didn't do it and I was riding thosewaves and didn't even know it at the time.
EmLed (26:43):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sam Johnson (26:44):
And it was exhausting.
And I remember I chose my oneword as as confidence that year.
And I had went home, Iwas interning at the time.
I'd went home and I waslike, prayerfully discerning.
What word do I wanna choose?
And I remember the word confidence, just,it just hit me like a nail in the coffin.
And I just wrote it in my journal.
I remember I came back the verynext week from being home and
(27:05):
I. There's this guy who playsguitar at our church named Brooks.
And he had had a secret Santa gift forme from like a, we had, we were supposed
to have some kind of gathering, but itgot canceled 'cause it was during Covid.
Okay.
And he said, Sam, like, I'd alreadygotten you this gift and just wanted
to give it to you in the, in the.
This was literally a week afterI chose my word and the book
was called Confident Humility.
(27:25):
No way.
Becoming your full Self withoutbecoming full of yourself.
EmLed (27:29):
Wow, I need to read this book.
Sam Johnson (27:31):
Yeah.
So, uh, that book in a sense was likemy undoing of, okay, my worth and values
and a lot of other things other than.
The love of God for me.
Mm-hmm.
I have, I have, I'm securing it andearning it in so many other places
so that I feel good about me and thatbook, I just, I know that he gave it
(27:52):
to me after that one word and the, thename and the title just matching and
EmLed (27:57):
Wow.
Sam Johnson (27:57):
I just had this deep, deep personal encounter with God in this
season where, you know, he just revealedto me through this book that, hey.
When you are trying to secure yourown worth and value in the things
that you do, you're either gonnaland, land in shame or pride.
When you, you have these, uh,checkbox of attributes you use to
(28:18):
evaluate yourself or assess yourself.
If you check 'em all, you feel goodabout yourself, you feel pride.
If you don't check them all, youdon't feel good about yourself,
you feel inferior to others.
Mm. You, you feel shame.
EmLed (28:29):
Yep.
Sam Johnson (28:29):
What he showed me, uh, through this book was that humility's not.
Opposite of pride.
It's actually the oppositeof both pride and shame.
That, uh, for me to humble myselfmeant a lot of walking out of shame.
there's this fullness of life availablein Jesus, uh, where you can be your full
self with without being full of yourself.
Hmm.
I can acknowledge my strengthswith without arrogance, but I can
(28:52):
face my weaknesses without shame.
Mm. It was this beautiful third way that.
I just found so much freedom in andI remember like, that was like my,
uh, you had asked like, what, whatwere those things you experienced?
I mean, that was a, that was abattle for me and that was when
I asked, also got baptized.
That was kind of likemy main testimony story.
And yeah, I think that GenZ were, were pressured to.
(29:16):
Chase the things of the world.
Yep.
Like you said, there is this theologyof self that we, are taught and we
ride those waves our whole lives.
Yeah.
And you gotta, you gotta go getyour own, you've gotta be distinct,
you've gotta be different.
Yep.
you gotta pull yourselfup by your own bootstraps.
You've got to make all the money.
Yep.
Do all the things.
Yep.
Have all the experiences.
EmLed (29:35):
Yep.
Sam Johnson (29:36):
We can find ourselves so, so exhausted.
Yep.
When we're the ones we're trusting in.
If, if I'm God of my own life,I'm not doing a good job.
Amen.
EmLed (29:46):
Sam.
Sam Johnson (29:47):
If, if I have to manage all of that, I'm gonna feel very empty.
I'm gonna constantly feel stressed.
I, I think you just really spoketo that so well of um, we, we,
we can be so self-focused, but.
The core of both shame and pride isan overwhelming sense of self focus.
Yep.
Shame is an I am statement.
Pride is an I am statement.
(30:08):
Exactly.
Humility for me was something that showed me it, it
took the focus off self not justoff of pride, but also off of shame.
Ugh.
So that is
EmLed (30:17):
so well said, Sam.
Sam Johnson (30:18):
That was, that was my story.
What have you seen, Emily?
Let me ask the podcast.
Oh, you're putting it on me?
Yeah.
What have you seen just starting yourown business being in the business and
corporate world, what have you seen someof the, what are some of the pressures
that you've felt and have seen in others?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, just doing this work and asyou've collaborated and have met
other people in the corporate world.
EmLed (30:39):
Oh my gosh.
Such a good question.
Yeah.
I love that you flipped it on me.
Yeah, well, as you were running through.
Everything that you said aboutpride and shame versus humility.
That is the journey that I have been onmyself for the last 8, 8, 9 months or
so, since I kind of came back to my faithand what catapulted me to that place was
being in business for the last five years.
(31:01):
It's a rat race.
Yeah.
That's that's truly howI would describe it.
Yeah.
Is you could never trulyclap for other people.
You can never truly be happy forother people's success because
you're so focused on your own.
Mm-hmm.
And I operated for so many yearswith a chip on my shoulder.
Mm-hmm.
I think one being a woman in business.
Sure.
(31:21):
You feel that you have more to prove.
For one, I was in.
A male dominated industryfor the last three years.
And so I felt that even more so thatI needed to prove that I was good at
what I did, that I could be trusted,that I was confident and I was strong.
And I did get to a point whereI was on that, that side of
pride that you're talking about.
(31:43):
Mm-hmm.
When things were going really good, and then the moment that I
didn't feel like I was on top or Ifelt like someone was outperforming me.
Mm-hmm.
The shame that you were talkingabout was running the show.
Yeah.
And so now, you know, I'm still in the business world.
I'm now starting my own business.
And the way that I'm approaching itand the way that I'm going into it
is intentionally so different fromhow I had been doing it in the past
(32:07):
because of what God has revealedto me and showed me about pride.
You know, our, our world tells us, likeyou're saying, go as fast as you can.
Make as much money as you can.
Be as successful as you can.
And that's the pace I was going at.
Yeah.
And it burnt me.
Yeah.
A huge reason why I restarted mypodcast was for that reason, I was
(32:27):
trying to publish weekly episodes thatwas a grind on top of a nine to five.
I was trying to make the podcast assuccessful as possible to, you know, I
wanted to monetize it, and I was just onthis journey that was sprinting towards
this end goal that I believed would.
Make me feel fulfilledand make me feel happy.
(32:50):
And I did grow it.
I, I did, I did monetize it.
Yeah.
I started selling merch.
Mm-hmm.
But all of it led me to aplace of feeling not enough.
Yeah.
And that god-sized hole that I had in me.
Mm-hmm.
None of it filled it.
It didn't matter how many listens Igot, how many people I collaborated
with, how much merch I sold.
(33:10):
It didn't matter how well I wasperforming in my nine to five.
All of these things did not make me feelthe way that I thought I was gonna feel.
And I think it's so interesting, like.
All of us spend our entire existencetrying to fill that God-sized
toll with everything but God.
So even though it had been suchan excruciating experience to get
(33:33):
to the place that I wanted to be,only for it to end up not being
anything that I thought it would be.
I'm so glad.
That, that, that God showed that to me.
Mm-hmm.
At such a young age at, yeah.
At 27, you're, how old are you?
24. 24. So he showed you the samething, like what a gift it is that
he would humble us at such a youngage and not let me go my whole life
(33:55):
without knowing what I know now.
Yeah.
I think many people don't havethat realization until like maybe
a midlife crisis when they're 50.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it was humblingand excruciating, but yeah.
Now I can go forward in mybusiness with a humble heart.
Yeah.
And to know that this is not all aboutme and that the success of my business
(34:16):
or not is not an indicator of my worth.
And to not put my worthinto that going forward.
And something that you were saying earlierabout building relationships with the
community in business, like relationshipsreally are everything, but I think so
many people approach them transactionallywith this undertone of like.
(34:36):
Okay, well what can yougive me out of this?
Sure.
Or what do I get out of it?
Sure.
And I find if I go into an interaction
mm-hmm.
With anybody more focused on, okay, how can I love you?
How can I show Jesus's loveto you in this interaction?
How can I help you?
Like, what advice could I give you?
Or encouragement, how could Ijust make you feel not alone?
(34:56):
And I approach it that way andtrust that the business will come
and, and not see every interactionas, oh, what can you give me?
Yeah.
I just know that that is going toone foster so many more genuine
relationships in my life that willlast a lifetime rather than be
like one off quick transactions.
Yeah.
And two, I find that that helps meto truly see people as people So.
(35:22):
That's a long answer, but No, that's,
Sam Johnson (35:24):
that's such a great answer.
Yeah.
And the, the things you spoke to andsaid, I, I see not just in the business
world, but in a, a lot of people's lives.
'cause again, it's the way of the world.
Yeah.
It's, it's the way we're, we'retaught and we've been riding those
waves for our, our whole lives untilwe do come to this realization.
Amen.
That, amen.
That our worth and value's nottied to the things that we do.
(35:46):
Yes.
I remember listening to a sermon one time.
There was this, uh.
Author, and I'm blanking on his name.
I think his first name's Jack.
I forget his last name.
Okay.
But he was at like thepinnacle of book writing.
He was the most successful author.
I think he sold like 26 top sellers.
And I remember he was in an interviewand he was just like, the interviewer
asked him like, so Jack, whatdoes it feel like to be at the.
(36:09):
The top of the world, the, the,the pinnacle of book writing.
And you know what he answered?
He said, when you get to thetop, there's nothing there.
EmLed (36:18):
Mm.
Sam Johnson (36:18):
That's, he said, I got all that I wanted.
And when I got there, Istill didn't feel satisfied.
Mm. There was stillsomething not enough in me.
And I, I think that that really spoketo, to me because, in my journey to,
to earn my worth and value throughother things other than the freely
unmerited, unearned love of God thatcame to me when I was at my worst mm uh,
(36:44):
when I was finding it in other places.
was exhausting to maintain,Performance on this range of attributes
I was using to assess myself.
EmLed (36:53):
Yep.
Sam Johnson (36:53):
It's exhausting.
It is.
And it was not fulfilling.
Even when I got what I wanted,there was nothing there.
Right.
I realized I got what I wanted.
I worked all so hard to get thisand I got it and I still feel empty.
Yep.
And you know, I think that, uh,you know, Jesus shows us that.
Not that, it's just, he does say it'sbetter to give than to receive, but that's
(37:16):
actually where life is found, he says, mm.
And uh, it's funny, I, I watched theSchindler's list recently, the movie
EmLed (37:23):
I've never seen it.
Sam Johnson (37:24):
It's uh, it's a heavy movie in a long movie.
So, uh, maybe save it for a rainy day.
But it's about Nazi Germany and,a lot of the Jews that were being
sent into concentration camps,but this guy, Oscar Schindler,
EmLed (37:37):
yeah.
Sam Johnson (37:37):
Says, okay, world War II's here.
I'm a wise businessman.
I can make money off this war.
So he had, uh, a lot of.
Very, very poor Jews that were in aghetto from Nazi Germany in their power.
And he said, I can hire this cheap laborand I can sell pots and pans to the,
(37:58):
uh, German army and make a lot of money.
And boy did he, I have cheap labor.
I'm, I've smart business skills.
And he was very, very successful.
Made a ton of money.
But he was kind of focused on himself.
Yeah.
At the beginning of the movie,he was like, it's all about
my business, my own, my this.
But as the movie goes on, he startsseeing the treatment that these Jews
(38:18):
are getting from, from the Nazis.
Mm-hmm.
He, uh, and from soldiers, he, hisheart starts to soften a little bit.
He starts to realize like, this is wrong.
Like, what I'm doing is not, not right.
I'm, I'm making money off of peoplewho are being persecuted and.
By the end of the movie he made allthis money, had all of the success,
(38:40):
and realizes all my friends that I metthat were working in my factory are
getting sent to Auschwitz right now.
And I know that that's a one way trip.
I'm going to take all my money,I'm gonna buy them back from, uh,
Auschwitz to, to work for a company.
And this was towards the end of the war.
And he did, he, uh, he hired over athousands, uh, I think over a thousand
(39:02):
Jews that were, were sent there to workin his factory, which kind of took them
away from that camp right at the endof the war when they were just, all
the bad things were happening, right?
at the end of the movie, he hadlike this panic attack of, I had
all this money, all these things,and I bought back these people.
But he's sitting there at theend, like he's looking down.
He is like this ring thatcould have been two people I.
(39:23):
Why did I keep it?
Oh, this card, this card.
10 people that could have been 10more people, I could have sold it.
And he's having this panic attack andit took, uh, uh, one of his Jewish
friends to say, Oscar generationswill be changed because of you.
Families will go on forcenturies because of you.
And what he found was life was found in.
(39:44):
Laying down his own life and hisown resources for the sake of
others versus, uh, getting his own,having his own and disadvantaging
others for his own advantage, right?
That real life was foundand disadvantaging himself
for, for others' advantage.
And I, I just remember getting chillswhen, when he did that, and, I think
that Solomon's a great example inthe scriptures as well of he was
(40:07):
arguably one of the wealthiest kings.
Uh, he had everything he wanted.
Yeah, he had all the women, uh, lots,he had all the money, gold and silver.
He had everything he wanted.
And at the end of his life as he'slooking back, like on his deathbed,
just about his life it says in.
Ecclesiastes two 11, he says, yet,when I surveyed all that my hands
(40:29):
had done and what I had toiled toachieve, everything was meaningless.
Mm. At chasing after the wind.
Mm-hmm.
And nothing was gained under the sun.
And he has this realization ofI got everything that I wanted.
I had it all, but nothingwas gained under the sun.
It, it, it vanishes.
Mm. he writes it as a. As a message toremind people of like all the success and
(40:56):
pleasures and things of this world, uh,chasing after them is not as fulfilling
as laying down your, your, your ownlife and your using your giftings and
things for the flourishing of humanity.
EmLed (41:08):
Amen.
Because
Sam Johnson (41:08):
when you get to your deathbed and your life, you realize
this world is different because.
I was in it.
EmLed (41:14):
Mm.
Sam Johnson (41:14):
And I, I didn't just live for me, I lived for, for others.
And there's gonna be generationalimpacts because of that.
EmLed (41:20):
Mm.
Sam Johnson (41:21):
And, and I think that's why Jesus, he says, for for whoever wants
to save their life, will, will lose it.
Yeah.
But whoever loses his lifefor, for my sake, will find it.
Mm. That when we try to save and preserveour own lives and our own success,
our own things, we end up losing it.
Because when we die, we justconsumed, we took it all.
But when we lose our life for others,mm. When we give with our time, our, our
(41:45):
talents and our treasure, our money, whenwe give it all, we actually find life.
'cause we realize I lived a meaningful andpurposeful life that wasn't just about me.
those scriptures really impacted me ina, in a way where I was like, Lord, I
don't wanna just live for me or myself.
Mm-hmm.
And the world teaches that a
EmLed (42:03):
hundred percent.
Sam Johnson (42:04):
And like you said earlier, like money's not evil.
EmLed (42:08):
Mm-hmm.
Sam Johnson (42:09):
Caring for yourself's not evil.
Uh, and arguably it's, it's wrong to you.
You can't love otherswithout being okay yourself.
Absolutely.
Of course.
That can't just be the end of theno, that can't be the end of it.
Like real life is found in layingdown your life for others in
whatever capacity that you're doing.
I don't care if you're in ministry, youdon't care if you work for a nonprofit.
(42:29):
I don't care if you're in the businessworld, God has gifted you with
specific talents and giftings, usethose for the flourishing of humanity.
Hmm.
Uh, one of my heroes, Dr. Martin LutherKing, Jr. Uh, he has this quote of,
If a man is called to be a streetsweeper, he should sweep the streets.
Even as Michelangelo painted or asBeethoven composed music or Shakespeare
(42:53):
wrote poetry, he should sweep the streetsso well that all the hosts of heaven and
earth will pause to say, here lived agreat street sweeper who did his job well.
So I, I say that because,uh, I'm not a street sweeper.
Uh, I don't think you are, butthere's someone out there who has that
gifting and no matter where you are.
What business you're in, what occupationyou're in, you can use your life, your,
(43:17):
your time, your giftings and your talentsand, and your treasure towards the
flourishing of humanity in those spaces.
Mm. Live it out to the fullest.
That's where real purpose,fulfillment, and life is found.
Jesus says, amen.
And that's, that's my encouragementto, to anyone feeling the, the
pressures of the business world.
' When you're all about performanceand, and earning your way to the
(43:38):
top, every single person that's alsosuccessful is deemed as a threat.
Mm. Or is deemed as this, you don't seethem as a person, you see 'em as a threat.
Exactly.
EmLed (43:44):
Exactly.
Sam Johnson (43:45):
And it's exhausting to maintain that when you realize that.
Hey, no matter where I am, I'm freeto give and I'm free to contribute
to their success because theirsuccess is not a threat to mine.
Mm. And I, I trust that I'mgonna be provided for, uh,
because I have a good father.
Exactly.
It's a much, much freerand fuller way of life.
Mm. So awesome.
And that's where life is found.
(44:06):
So well said.
Yeah.
EmLed (44:08):
Amen.
Wow.
There's so much from that, that.
I could elaborate on you talkedabout the book of Ecclesiastes, which
was such a, a wake up call for me.
Mm-hmm.
Coming back to my faith, I read that and Ifelt like God punched me between the eyes.
Mm-hmm.
That whole book, it's like, okay, soI can spend my whole life chasing all
these things and get to the end of itand realize it was all for nothing.
(44:31):
Yeah.
Or.
I can humble myself and allow God to fillthat hole and be forever changed by it.
And like you said,actually experience life.
I think.
I don't know how it was for yougrowing up, but for me growing up in,
in the Christian faith, my belief andunderstanding of the gospel was I.
Basically about whereyou go after you die.
(44:53):
Sure.
And I didn't, I didn't understand thatfollowing Jesus and really experiencing
his love and letting it change me wouldchange my life and how I live it here
and now.
And now understanding that and being like, okay, so this isn't
just about getting into heaven.
This is about.
Letting the Lord love meinto being a person of love.
(45:14):
Yeah.
And letting that change the waythat I interact with other people.
Kind of exactly what you said, likeyou just realize the way that you're
going through life and moving andtreating other people and your mentality
and almost that scarcity mindset.
Yeah.
Then shifts to one of abundance.
Mm-hmm.
Where you're like, oh, actually.
I'm gonna go throughout my dayand see much how I can love
(45:36):
how, how can I love people?
How can I show up?
And yeah, letting that be what leads youand what drives you and motivates you.
And then trusting that God will provide,like I've already seen that happen
in the last few months of my life.
Like it's nothing that I'vedone, it's just God showing up
because of how I've chosen toput my faith and my trust in him.
Sam Johnson (45:56):
Yeah.
And that's, uh, that'sso full and freeing.
Yeah, it really is.
That's so good, Emily.
EmLed (46:03):
Yeah.
Well, I would love to close out withone final question and allow you
to share any other final thoughtsthat you have for our audience.
But my last question to you is, inaddition to all the great amazing
wisdom that you've shared today, mm-hmm.
If you had to leave one person who'sjust really wrestling with life,
they're really, really struggling.
(46:23):
Maybe they don't feel fulfilledin their career, they feel
lost, they don't have purpose.
And you just had to give them one pieceof simple advice, what would it be?
Sam Johnson (46:31):
Yeah.
I, and this is advice I, Idon't just give to this person.
It's advice I give tomyself every single day.
Know your belovedness in God.
Know your belovedness in God.
If you're failing in your business, ifyou're failing as a parent, if you're,
if you're failing by worldly standards onthis thing or that know that the love of
God is there, uh, so much deeper than youthink, and so much deeper than, you know,
(46:56):
know that belovedness because it's fromthat belovedness that you're gonna love.
Well.
It's the beloved who can love knowthat live in it, abide in it daily.
Mm. You'll find freedom nomatter how hard things get.
EmLed (47:09):
Mm. So good.
So good, Sam.
Well thank you so muchfor joining me today.
Yeah, absolutely.
And for just opening your heartand being so raw and honest.
You know, I find the most compellingpieces of content or literature,
whatever that I can consume,is the one where people are
willing to open their heart Sure.
And be honest and share, so, mm-hmm.
(47:30):
I just wanna thank you and commendyou for the courage that you had.
Doing that today.
Thank
Sam Johnson (47:33):
you.
I appreciate it.
Emily, this was so fun.
Thanks for inviting me on your podcast.
Uh, listeners, please lilisten to all of her episodes.
She is doing amazing.
Thank you.
And um, thanks so much for inviting me.
EmLed (47:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you.
Do you wanna plug yourselffor Vigilant Hope?
How can people get in touch with you?
Sam Johnson (47:48):
Sure, yeah.
If you are local to the Wilmingtonarea or not and wanna support us,
you, I mean, of course there's ways.
Uh, financially across the countryor the world, you could support us.
But for sure, if you're local tothe Wilmington area, want to get
involved you can visit our websiteat vigilant Hope slash outreach.
Uh, we have lots of our gatherings andopportunities to volunteer on that page.
(48:09):
Uh, vigilant Hope slash trainingfor, if you want us to come and
speak at your church or visit yoursmall group, whatever it might be.
We are, we are here to help youdiscern how can you love your city?
Well.
How can you love your neighbors?
Well, uh, we wanna walk with you on that.
You can also shoot me an email, uh,sam@vigilanthope.com with any questions.
If you want to donate, you cansupport, uh, you can support, support
(48:33):
us financially through vi I thinkit's vigilant hope.com/donate.
You can click down themake a donation tab.
You can, uh, choose where you, whereyou want it to go, which fund you
can choose, whether you want it tobe recurring or just a one-time gift.
And as always, those are always, youcan support us, support the mission.
It's not our mission.
We, uh.
We're just distributors of, of whatGod gives us and we're, we're gonna
(48:57):
do it the best way that we can,
EmLed (48:58):
so.
Mm-hmm.
Awesome.
I will link all of those links in theshow notes so people can easily go click.
But yeah, definitely.
Go check out Vigilant Hoopswebsite and reach out to Sam.
Oh, come
Sam Johnson (49:07):
get a cup of coffee, please.
Yes.
And come get a cup of coffee.
We, we have anything?
Uh, lattes flat whites.
Pour overs.
Ooh.
Black coffee, iced coffee.
Yes.
You guys have the best coffee,
uh, drip everything.
So, uh, you can buy beans from us.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, all of that's supporting the mission,so that's a really easy way as well.
EmLed (49:23):
Yes.
And the coffee shop is so cute.
Great vibes.
Yeah.
So go check it out.
All right, well this was anotherepisode of Wrestling with Life.
Thank you again, Sam,and we will talk soon.
Y'all.
Sam Johnson (49:34):
Sounds great.
Thanks everyone.
EmLed (49:35):
Bye.
Alright everyone, welcome back to Wrestling With Life.
I am your host, EM led, and I'm so,so excited because my friend Sam
Johnson is here on the podcast today.
Welcome, Sam.
Sam Johnson (00:35):
Yes, Emily, thanks so much for having me.
I am so, so excited to be here.
What an honor it is to be on yourpodcast and, To to have the wrestling
with life sign right in between us.
I mean, how cool is this?
Hey.
Yeah.
Cute setup, right?
This is awesome.
Amazing setup.
Yes.
Yeah.
Thank
EmLed (00:49):
you.
Yeah.
I'm so excited that you're here and I'mso excited to have you on the mic speaking
because since we met, you are someone who.
I just really, really admire theway that you move through life and
your values and just your truth.
I really respect it and I'm excitedto share that with people here today.
So for anyone who doesn't knowyou, I'd love to give a little
(01:10):
background on what you do.
So you are an urban missionary?
Mm-hmm.
And the community coordinator of themobile ministry at Vigilant Hope.
Mm-hmm.
Here in Wilmington, north.
Carolina, and I would love foryou to explain a little bit
about what Vigilant Hope is.
That's actually the organizationthat we met through.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Let the people know whatVigilant Hope's all about.
Sam Johnson (01:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
Uh, vigilant Hope's anonprofit organization here
in Wilmington, North Carolina.
There's a lot that I could talk about,but my two minute one liner, the best
description I can give for what isVigilant Hope is we are essentially
an organization that's trying tohelp bridge the gap between the local
church and the margins of our city.
EmLed (01:49):
Yeah.
Sam Johnson (01:49):
Uh, so we are strategically present and neglecting
neighborhoods and communities.
So this could include, uh,neighborhoods that are, uh,
food insecure under-resourced.
This also includes, uh, folkswho are experiencing homelessness
that are unsheltered or.
Or living in shelters.
Uh, we're strategicallypresent in those spaces.
Just getting to know people, buildingrelationships with them, and really
(02:11):
learning what the needs are of the city.
And then we're also strategicallypresent in churches that want to help
and don't necessarily know how to help.
Hmm.
And we are communicating those needs thatwe, that we know through relationship
with, uh, folks in the margins.
Yeah.
Uh, so we're trying to help bridgethat gap and, I guess like in a
broad sense view, we, uh, we're thebridge between crisis and compassion.
EmLed (02:32):
Mm.
Sam Johnson (02:32):
That's
EmLed (02:33):
beautiful.
Sam Johnson (02:33):
So that's who we are.
Uh, we do that through communitygatherings, uh, where we eat together.
We, we train, uh, churches, uh, wedo immersive learning opportunities,
which I know you know very much about.
Very
EmLed (02:44):
well.
Sam Johnson (02:45):
We also have a coffee shop, which is a super
easy way to support the mission.
Just buying a cup of coffee or doingyour homework at our coffee shop.
Uh, those funds go back towardsoutreach in the community and support
the mission in any way or form.
Mm-hmm.
I
EmLed (02:58):
love it.
Sam Johnson (02:58):
That's my, uh.
Two minute pitch.
EmLed (03:00):
That was beautiful.
Well, well said.
Thank you.
I love vigilant hope I am so, so in awe ofwhat you guys are doing here in the city.
Thank you.
And yeah, that's how we got connected.
So I, I did the poverty simulation mm-hmm.
Which is the immersive experiencethat you're talking about.
I'd love for you to explain alittle bit about what the poverty
simulation is and how we met.
Sam Johnson (03:20):
Sure, absolutely.
So our poverty simulation is, weonly do it about twice a year.
It's a 48 hour immersiveexperience of what.
It's like to live unsheltered.
Of all the things we do, it's probablythe most impactful weekend, uh,
we host of all of our trainings.
Instead of learning from an urbanmissionary like myself or a staff
(03:40):
member doing a presentation, uh, you'relearning by being tangibly in the shoes
of what it's like to battle poverty.
We, we often believe that folks who are.
Who are in poverty have thebest knowledge and understanding
of what the solutions are.
And by, by just doing this experience, uh.
(04:01):
You're pretty much going througha weekend of suffering with,
with the hopes of deeper empathyand understanding for folks.
Uh, because how am I an outsider to knowwhat homelessness is when I've never, I
don't have any lived experience with it.
Yes.
So it's, it's like a twoday, experience where you.
You get some of the lived realitiesand experiences that folks,
uh, living unsheltered have.
(04:23):
Mm. And we do our best as a staffto be as, as representative, uh,
as we can to a lot of the thingsand testimonies that we see.
When we ask people, whatdo you wish people knew?
EmLed (04:33):
Yeah.
Sam Johnson (04:34):
That are that are experiencing homelessness.
We try to.
Incorporate those things into thattraining, into that experience
because lots of times, we'll,we'll think we know what people
are, where they're coming from.
Yeah.
But until you, uh, until you geta little lived experience with
it, uh, you'll be shocked by, uh.
All the layers that come with it.
Oh my gosh.
EmLed (04:53):
Can confirm.
Sam Johnson (04:54):
Yeah.
So Emily, I met you.
Uh, what's also funny aboutthis experience is, uh, I never
recommend it to anybody unless theyknow us and have a little bit of
trust and relationship with us.
So like I encourage people to get afront door with us through maybe a
community gathering or running ourshower trailer for a few weeks or
months before the simulation, but.
(05:14):
Emily, you just met one of my friendsat a coffee shop named Blair and
Blair's like, Hey, you need to do thispoverty simulation out of the blue.
And I remember just talking to you andlike, I know we're just meeting on the
phone and I would love for you to dothis, but I also wanna warn you that
like, this is a really hard weekend.
Yeah.
And you just had so muchcourage and commitment and
(05:34):
you're like, I wanna dive in.
Uh, I see you as a, as a doer, Emily,and I am a doer and, I was like, okay.
Just, uh, I got it to forewarnyou, but I will let you, uh, jump
in and I'm so glad that you did.
EmLed (05:46):
Yeah.
Well, I'm so glad that I did too,and I appreciated the warning.
Yeah.
And I appreciate you looking out for me.
But man, I can really confirmeverything that you're saying about
the poverty simulation, growingempathy for the homeless population.
You truly have no clue.
Mm. What like the ins and outs of it.
Like you can maybe imagine okay, you know,sleeping outside for a night or you know,
(06:08):
not going without a meal or something.
Like, you can imaginewhat that might be like.
Mm-hmm.
But you don't realize how deeply itaffects you emotionally, spiritually,
physically, and then how that impactsyour decision making processes and
your ability to move through the world.
How someone who's not experiencingthat would, so yeah, that,
that experience honestly.
(06:30):
Was so transformative for me and changedeverything for me, and I could not
move the same way through life that Ihad been after having that experience.
So I just wanna commend Vigilant hopefor not only that the poverty simulation,
but just the work that you guys aredoing in, in the city and the community
and loving on people and, you know,sharing Jesus and sharing resources.
(06:52):
It's just incredible.
And if you're a Wilmington localand you haven't checked Vigilant
Hope out, go to the coffeeshop, the Roastery, go to a sat.
Or day breakfast and shower, go to apotluck on Thursday nights and just
have a first touch with the community.
It will be life changing for you.
Sam Johnson (07:08):
Yeah.
Well, thanks so much, Emily.
We, uh, we're, we could not dowhat we do without people like you.
Mm-hmm.
Like really.
Thank you.
We're a community, we're a family.
Everyone belongs.
I don't care what yourbank account looks like.
Where you slept last nightwhere you're coming from.
Uh, we're just a community of.
Folks from diverse walks of lifecoming together to, to get to know
each other and build relationships.
(07:29):
Mm-hmm.
And we do that because, uh, whenwe look at the life of Jesus, we,
we saw that he, he had everyone atthe table tax collectors sinners.
EmLed (07:40):
Yeah.
The
Sam Johnson (07:40):
religious institution.
Mm. Zealots, you name it.
Uh, they were at the table and wejust like to follow his example.
EmLed (07:48):
Mm. So well said.
I love that.
Sam Johnson (07:50):
Thank you.
EmLed (07:50):
So I really wanted to include you on this specific series of my
podcast because I'm sitting down witha bunch of local people, many of them
being business owners, and you arenot necessarily a business owner.
Mm-hmm.
But the path.
That you've chosen is so incrediblyunique and against the grain of a
typical, you know, go to college andcome out and this is your career path.
(08:11):
So I would love to just.
Take me back to the moment when you knewyou wanted to be in ministry and you
knew that you wanted to take this path.
Mm-hmm.
And maybe like the thoughts andfeelings that came up for you when
you started getting internships withchurch or when you know, you had your
first experience with Vigilant Hope.
Like what did Decidingto take that specific.
(08:32):
Career path in life.
Yeah.
What led you to that point?
Sam Johnson (08:36):
That's a great question.
You know, I came into collegenot knowing what I wanted to do.
I, I thought about criminal justice.
I, I went in undecided and I. Kind oflike my testimony was my, my freshman
year, uh, I, I, I grew up a believerin Jesus and, and a churchgoer, but
I think like probably my freshmanand sophomore year of college was
(08:58):
when I really, really strengthenedthat personal relationship with him.
Yeah.
You know, my freshman year I remember.
Kind of had two different communities.
I had, uh, uh, I had a friend whohad welcomed me into the, this, uh,
college ministry called Overflow.
And mm, that was a partof my freshman year.
And I'd also had this dorm communitywhere I had a lot of friends,
(09:19):
uh, people I knew, 'cause I wouldsee 'em every day in the dorm.
And I was kind of like split 5050 between these two communities.
You know, one, I was, uh, oneacceptance was freely given.
Mm. And just, uh.
Just your presence alone was welcomed.
And then the other one, like, aslong as you're kind of following,
doing the things that everyoneelse is doing, you, you belong.
(09:40):
Yeah.
And I remember like towards the endof my freshman year, just having a
dilemma of you're climbing two ladders.
The, the higher you get up eachone, the farther your legs get
split and you gotta choose a ladder.
And I just remember I was like.
I've never experienced, uh, communityand, and a deep sense of belonging like
I have in, in, in this church community.
(10:02):
So I ended up, justreally, really going deep.
I, I got to meet a lot of people, a lotof staff through the college ministry.
And it was actually other internsat that time that, uh, said, Sam, we
really think that you should intern.
We, we see something in you.
It wasn't even something I saw in myselfand I was like, you're, y'all are crazy.
What are you talking about?
You want me to intern next year?
EmLed (10:23):
Yeah.
Sam Johnson (10:24):
And, I prayed on it, thought about it, and just took the, took the
leap of faith and ended up interningwith the church for, for two years.
Uh, interned with the, the care ministry.
So, uh, we kind of in care, there's all,there's all different forms of care.
Uh, there's, you know, justwalking with people and.
Different circumstances of life.
(10:45):
There's physical care of, Hey, I, Ineed someone to, I don't have a truck.
I need someone to help me movefrom point A to point B. Sure.
There's, Spiritual care, uh, emotional,I mean, so I really got a taste and,
and picture of what does it look liketo care for people and to love them.
And in this, uh, season and internship, Ireally saw my giftings kind of bubble up.
(11:06):
I learned a lot about myselfthat I. Hadn't necessarily known.
Growing up some of my greatest strengthswere, were caring for people, uh,
loving them and, and, and compassion.
Hmm.
So, uh, through this internship,I, I didn't even know what social
work was, but I had had a friendwho was studying social work and I
was like, tell me more about that.
What even is that?
And when they explainedit to me, I remember.
(11:28):
Just being like, thatsounds right up my alley.
Yeah.
Like, I really need to look into this.
Yeah.
So sophomore year of college endedup applying for the Bachelor's of
Social Work program at UC Wilmingtonwas still interning at the time, so,
uh, went through junior year in thesame program, was still interning
with the church during the same time.
And, kind of had this, uh, senior yearopportunity where in, in the social work
(11:51):
program, you, you have to have a fullyear internship with a local organization
that's kind of doing social work related.
Activities.
So mine was vigilant hope.
I remember that I had had thispassion for ministry through
interning for years, and my heartwas just really stirred in ministry.
Mm. And I had this passion for socialwork and here comes this internship.
(12:13):
That's a beautiful blend of both.
And I was like, I wanna apply.
Hopefully I get this internshipand Lord be willing, I got it.
Yeah.
And interned for a whole year.
Really got to know, uh, a lot of ourneighbors who are unsheltered really
that whole year was centered aroundbuilding relationships, rapport, and
trust with uh, uh, folks on the margins.
(12:35):
Mm. And just getting to know them,getting to know their stories.
Learning, learning aboutdifferent resources.
Uh, becoming a, a reallystrong social worker.
Yeah.
But also, uh, because we are afaith-based nonprofit, just learning
a lot about, how do the Bible how doesthe Bible and how do the scriptures,
uh, define poverty and, and how do weas a local body of Christ really get
(12:58):
involved in, in our cities, in our.
In our nation, in ourworld, uh, with poverty.
'cause there's, in the scriptures,there's over 2000, passages
about poverty or justice Oh wow.
In total.
And it was just a really amazingway to real amazing opportunity
where my education, my interests,my giftings all kind of match.
(13:19):
And I was like.
It just made sense.
It's gonna make sense.
Yeah.
And, uh, took the leaveof faith and graduated.
Uh, I was like, okay, am I gonnacontinue on or am I gonna look elsewhere?
And I remember there was a differentopportunity that was offered a different
job opportunity at Vigilant Hope that itsounded interesting, but I don't think
it really resonated with my gifting well.
(13:41):
And, after a talk with the communityengagement team, they're like,
okay, we have two staff members.
We're running four gatherings a week.
We have about 150 people we're seeingon the weekly that are in crisis
and poverty, and we need some extrasupport and we really, uh, would
love to offer you this position.
And I just said, I. Yes.
EmLed (13:58):
Yay.
So there you go.
Sam Johnson (14:00):
That's, uh, that's my, uh, story from, from college to here.
There's a lot more in the InBetween,but in a broad sense, that's,
that's how I got to where I am.
Yeah,
EmLed (14:09):
that was well explained.
Thank you for sharing all that.
Sam Johnson (14:11):
Absolutely.
EmLed (14:11):
I'm really curious about.
What was internally happening inyour heart, in your mind, as you
were making these steps closer andcloser towards the calling that
you felt God had on your life?
Mm-hmm.
For me, at least, I can speakto my own experience, recently
started my own business.
It has been.
A simultaneous mixture of fear andexcitement and energy and feeling
(14:37):
drained, roadblocks and successes.
It's been a mix of a lot.
So I'm curious to know for you,what roadblocks or obstacles or
fears or limiting beliefs, or maybeeven just a struggle to trust God.
Did anything like that come up asyou were pursuing this calling?
Sam Johnson (14:55):
Absolutely.
100%.
(16:18):
I think some of those beliefsthat I had to really fight
against were, I'm not qualified.
Mm. Uh, I don't know enough.
Yeah.
Those were real things that I, I felt and experienced and
I really had to give myself thegrace of you're just outta college.
Uh, you're, you're likekindergarten into adulthood.
Yeah, pretty much.
For real.
I mean, you, you go throughK through 12 and then you
(16:40):
graduate college and then it's.
Back to kindergarten again into adulthood.
So I to give myself the grace of, there'sgonna be a lot that you don't know.
EmLed (16:48):
Yeah.
Sam Johnson (16:48):
And that's okay.
You're absolutely, it's gonna take, uh,at least six months with any job to.
Even kind of get your feet wet.
EmLed (16:57):
Yeah.
In
Sam Johnson (16:57):
a sense.
EmLed (16:58):
For sure.
Sam Johnson (16:58):
So, uh, and I remember they encouraged us that, and with that in the
social work program, because when you'reworking with people, especially in crisis,
you're like, I don't know what to say.
I don't know what to refer to.
Uh, I don't know howto tell this person No.
When they see me as their only hope.
Mm. Like I remember there was just alot of uncertainty and fear of failure.
And I just from a young start.
(17:19):
Had to accept like failure isgonna be a part of my story.
I'm gonna disappoint somebody.
I'm going to mess up and.
There's grace for that.
Yeah.
Like there is so much grace for that.
Like I, uh, as long as you, yourecognize it, you learn from it.
I mean, I, I think you, I don'tthink you can have a, a business
(17:41):
journey or any professional journeywith, without making mistakes.
Absolutely.
And just holding that grace andcompassion for yourself, especially
in those early years is so important.
Oh, yeah.
Also with this job at Vigilant Hope a,a kind of a. Roadblock at the beginning
was, uh, as urban missionaries, like, Idon't receive any salary from Vigilant
(18:02):
Hope so everything that I I makecomes from the donation of others.
Yeah.
Uh, I raise my own support asa missionary, which is, which
is common with missionariesoverseas and all across the world.
But, uh, even in urban missions,you know, we're, we're dependent
on others and can't do our workwithout, without the help of others.
And I remember when I first, uh,graduated college, I, I, I didn't
(18:25):
know anything about that process.
I was like, I've never done this before.
I don't wanna ask people for money.
Right.
Uh, how is this gonna affect myrelationships in my community?
Right?
All the things bubbled up and Italked it through with, with people
who had been doing it for years.
Uh, it it was very foreign to me.
Yeah.
Uh, I remember.
Loving the work and having my heartin it, but also, uh, not knowing
(18:48):
if that was gonna be doable.
Yeah.
And it was very real and I prayed on it.
And, uh, where I kind of landedwas, uh, I'm gonna give it a shot.
Uh, it could go through the roof.
Yeah.
It could not work.
And that's okay.
At least I, at least I tried.
And all, all in that I just, Ikind of had this, revelation in
(19:09):
my own faith, walk of the Lord.
Just saying, Sam, I want youto give me what you have.
Uh, just like the discipleswith, with feeding the 5,000.
Mm-hmm.
Of like, Lord, how arewe gonna feed the 5,000?
We have like, I don't remember whatit was, seven loaves, two fishes,
or five loaves and two fishes.
Yeah, that's right.
And he is like.
Gimme what you have and,and let me multiply it.
Oh.
(19:29):
So I remember like, uh,I cast my nets wide.
I I started sending out letters to justpeople I knew and which didn't seem
like a lot I did not think of, I. Therewas just not a lot of people to think
I thought about to, to send letters to,and I cast my nets as wide as I can.
Yeah.
Whether I had met this person atthe grocery store, uh, last week, or
whether I'd known him for 10 years,you know, I just cast my nets wide.
(19:52):
I, I didn't pressure anybody to give.
I just said I. You can partner with methrough giving, but you can also partner
with me through, through prayer, throughadvocating like if you know of someone
that would be interested in supportingthis, like just sharing that message.
Yeah.
And uh, I became a really goodletter writer for like six
or five or six months, and I.
Within five or six months, uh, the Lordjust really, really multiplied what I had.
(20:16):
Wow.
Through other people's sharingabout it and advocating.
And I got a message from our HR that,Hey, you've got enough to come on staff.
And, that was some of the best news ever.
Yeah, because I was, I was, I waslike, it's a lot of hard work.
A lot of work.
Yeah.
A lot of letter writing andbut man, how faithful was God
to, to bring me through it.
Wow.
And something I thoughtwould be impossible for me.
(20:38):
He, Just showed us.
He made it happen.
He made it happen.
And when we walk with him in trust,he's, he's faithful to answer.
EmLed (20:46):
Oh, Sam, that's so good.
Wow.
Praise God.
So, yeah.
Were you surprised at certain peoplewho gave that you were like, oh my
gosh, I never thought you would give.
Sam Johnson (20:53):
Oh yeah.
It's totally upside down.
Yeah.
People who you think would give, uh,wouldn't give and people you never thought
would give, would give so interesting.
And it's very interesting.
And, you know, whether someonegives or not gives, I mean, there's.
EmLed (21:06):
No judgment.
Sam Johnson (21:07):
I mean no judgment there.
But I was really surprised.
Yeah.
You know, uh, it just kind ofshowed you like how the Lord
works through different people.
Yeah.
And you know, like asking for,for, for money and finances
is, is an uncomfortable thing.
EmLed (21:20):
Yeah.
Sam Johnson (21:21):
But it was something that the disciples did.
It was something that, youknow, Jesus says like, ask
and ask and you shall receive.
Mm-hmm.
And knock and the door willbe answered, come, come to me.
And but we gotta have the, we gottahave the truth that, of an understanding
of, I'm not self-sufficient.
Hmm.
This is not my calling my job, my,this, this is something that people can
(21:44):
participate in, uh, through supporting me.
I couldn't do this work withoutthose people by my side.
Right.
And, uh, I remember an encouragementthat, uh, Laura, my, my boss
had told me at the time was.
Like, so many people are so busy intoday's world, they don't have the
time to volunteer to go out and goon a missions trip or do the things.
(22:05):
But they're very successful financially.
Yeah.
This gives those people opportunities tobe a, a part of something that they don't
necessarily have the chance to themselves.
EmLed (22:15):
Right.
Sam Johnson (22:15):
And she had told me a story of a, a person that got mad that
they didn't, she didn't ask him, uh, ather, at her church growing up of like,
you robbed me of my opportunity to,to help you to, to support you, yeah.
And give me an opportunity to,to be a, a part of something
bigger than, than myself.
Mm. And I just, I thought of that and Iwas like, it, it really is a beautiful
(22:36):
way to To know that I, I wake up everyday to my job doing what I do because
of the grace of God through others.
Mm. Only that I wouldnot have a position here.
I would not have, uh, ajob if it wasn't for them.
Mm. Um, And they are just as a part ofeverything that I've done than I am.
'cause I couldn't do it without him.
(22:57):
So it, it really opened my eyes towhat, what even is the kingdom of God.
It's, it's a kingdom ofgiving and receiving.
All of us need to receive as humans.
all of us are made to giveand contribute as well.
Yeah.
And it just gave me a really, uh,beautiful picture of what that looks like.
EmLed (23:15):
Mm. That is so beautiful.
I wanna dig into just kind oflike your values and your mindset
and the way that you see theworld and God and other people.
Mm-hmm.
I think something that I notice alot with Gen Z, early millennials.
Mm-hmm.
Especially those of uswho grew up on screens.
The message of self iswoven into our culture.
(23:38):
Yeah.
We all know that.
Yeah, and I don't think any of us are.
Perfect at, yeah.
Not getting caught up in ourselves.
You know, at the end of theday, we are responsible to keep
ourselves alive and provide, right.
That's right.
So you do have to think ofyourself in some capacity.
Absolutely.
Can't pour from an empty cup.
Obviously we both know that.
Yeah.
However, I've noticed in myself before I came back to the Lord, and
(24:01):
I notice it in a lot of people that Iknow is the spirit of maybe entitlement.
Sure.
Maybe.
Not trusting God, maybe thinking,you know, I'm a good person,
so I deserve good things.
And I see, you know, my friends havethis or that, or my coworker has this
or that, and I don't, but I deserve it.
Mm-hmm.
And I notice that many of us canslip into this victim mentality.
(24:25):
Sure.
And that bleeds out intohow we treat others, the way
that we show up in the world.
So.
Something that I've always noticedin you that I admire so much is
your humility is your grace, isyour trust in the Lord to provide.
But we don't pop outthe womb with that Sure.
Ingrained in us.
(24:45):
You know, we're, we'reselfish right out the womb.
So I'm so interested to knowfor you, like, what is it?
Maybe it's mostly just your faith, maybeyou've always kind of had that, but was
there a time in your life where maybe youfound yourself in that victim mentality
and you had to make shifts to get outof it and, and how did you do that?
Sam Johnson (25:06):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think especially before my just kindof ra I had a really radical encounter
with God in my sophomore year of college.
Yeah.
So, uh, kind of like my, this was kindof the season where I really found
and came to know the love of God.
Yeah.
(25:26):
It was kind of a really cool story.
I, yeah, sure.
It was, it was a seasonof deep insecurity for me.
I, I kind of felt like Ididn't really belong anywhere.
I'd felt, uh, very alone.
And I just remember I didn't reallyhave a lot of confidence and, you
go to the same church I go to.
Yeah.
But, uh, shout out for, youknow, they do my one word.
Yeah.
My one word.
Um, So that year that I was doingthis, I, it was my first time
(25:48):
ever participating in my one word.
And I remember, I remember justsitting with God and, and saying,
Lord, I, I feel all this insecurity.
I feel like that I, Idon't belong anywhere.
And that my greatest indicatorsof worth are the things that I
do and I have to prove myself.
Mm. And whether that's, uh, throughyour body image, through your, uh.
(26:08):
Through, uh, your success on a, inschool or performance on a certain
thing it was this lie that yourgreatest indicators of worth and
value are the things you produce.
Hmm.
And I, I felt myselfdeeply, deeply lost in that.
Yeah.
I was never confident because when yourworth is tied to the, your performance,
(26:30):
you're always having to prove, always.
You're always having to make,uh, you're always having to
maintain a certain status quo.
EmLed (26:38):
Yep.
Sam Johnson (26:39):
And it's exhausting.
I didn't do it and I was riding thosewaves and didn't even know it at the time.
EmLed (26:43):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sam Johnson (26:44):
And it was exhausting.
And I remember I chose my oneword as as confidence that year.
And I had went home, Iwas interning at the time.
I'd went home and I waslike, prayerfully discerning.
What word do I wanna choose?
And I remember the word confidence, just,it just hit me like a nail in the coffin.
And I just wrote it in my journal.
I remember I came back the verynext week from being home and
(27:05):
I. There's this guy who playsguitar at our church named Brooks.
And he had had a secret Santa gift forme from like a, we had, we were supposed
to have some kind of gathering, but itgot canceled 'cause it was during Covid.
Okay.
And he said, Sam, like, I'd alreadygotten you this gift and just wanted
to give it to you in the, in the.
This was literally a week afterI chose my word and the book
was called Confident Humility.
(27:25):
No way.
Becoming your full Self withoutbecoming full of yourself.
EmLed (27:29):
Wow, I need to read this book.
Sam Johnson (27:31):
Yeah.
So, uh, that book in a sense was likemy undoing of, okay, my worth and values
and a lot of other things other than.
The love of God for me.
Mm-hmm.
I have, I have, I'm securing it andearning it in so many other places
so that I feel good about me and thatbook, I just, I know that he gave it
(27:52):
to me after that one word and the, thename and the title just matching and
EmLed (27:57):
Wow.
Sam Johnson (27:57):
I just had this deep, deep personal encounter with God in this
season where, you know, he just revealedto me through this book that, hey.
When you are trying to secure yourown worth and value in the things
that you do, you're either gonnaland, land in shame or pride.
When you, you have these, uh,checkbox of attributes you use to
(28:18):
evaluate yourself or assess yourself.
If you check 'em all, you feel goodabout yourself, you feel pride.
If you don't check them all, youdon't feel good about yourself,
you feel inferior to others.
Mm. You, you feel shame.
EmLed (28:29):
Yep.
Sam Johnson (28:29):
What he showed me, uh, through this book was that humility's not.
Opposite of pride.
It's actually the oppositeof both pride and shame.
That, uh, for me to humble myselfmeant a lot of walking out of shame.
there's this fullness of life availablein Jesus, uh, where you can be your full
self with without being full of yourself.
Hmm.
I can acknowledge my strengthswith without arrogance, but I can
(28:52):
face my weaknesses without shame.
Mm. It was this beautiful third way that.
I just found so much freedom in andI remember like, that was like my,
uh, you had asked like, what, whatwere those things you experienced?
I mean, that was a, that was abattle for me and that was when
I asked, also got baptized.
That was kind of likemy main testimony story.
And yeah, I think that GenZ were, were pressured to.
(29:16):
Chase the things of the world.
Yep.
Like you said, there is this theologyof self that we, are taught and we
ride those waves our whole lives.
Yeah.
And you gotta, you gotta go getyour own, you've gotta be distinct,
you've gotta be different.
Yep.
you gotta pull yourselfup by your own bootstraps.
You've got to make all the money.
Yep.
Do all the things.
Yep.
Have all the experiences.
EmLed (29:35):
Yep.
Sam Johnson (29:36):
We can find ourselves so, so exhausted.
Yep.
When we're the ones we're trusting in.
If, if I'm God of my own life,I'm not doing a good job.
Amen.
EmLed (29:46):
Sam.
Sam Johnson (29:47):
If, if I have to manage all of that, I'm gonna feel very empty.
I'm gonna constantly feel stressed.
I, I think you just really spoketo that so well of um, we, we,
we can be so self-focused, but.
The core of both shame and pride isan overwhelming sense of self focus.
Yep.
Shame is an I am statement.
Pride is an I am statement.
(30:08):
Exactly.
Humility for me was something that showed me it, it
took the focus off self not justoff of pride, but also off of shame.
Ugh.
So that is
EmLed (30:17):
so well said, Sam.
Sam Johnson (30:18):
That was, that was my story.
What have you seen, Emily?
Let me ask the podcast.
Oh, you're putting it on me?
Yeah.
What have you seen just starting yourown business being in the business and
corporate world, what have you seen someof the, what are some of the pressures
that you've felt and have seen in others?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, just doing this work and asyou've collaborated and have met
other people in the corporate world.
EmLed (30:39):
Oh my gosh.
Such a good question.
Yeah.
I love that you flipped it on me.
Yeah, well, as you were running through.
Everything that you said aboutpride and shame versus humility.
That is the journey that I have been onmyself for the last 8, 8, 9 months or
so, since I kind of came back to my faithand what catapulted me to that place was
being in business for the last five years.
(31:01):
It's a rat race.
Yeah.
That's that's truly howI would describe it.
Yeah.
Is you could never trulyclap for other people.
You can never truly be happy forother people's success because
you're so focused on your own.
Mm-hmm.
And I operated for so many yearswith a chip on my shoulder.
Mm-hmm.
I think one being a woman in business.
Sure.
(31:21):
You feel that you have more to prove.
For one, I was in.
A male dominated industryfor the last three years.
And so I felt that even more so thatI needed to prove that I was good at
what I did, that I could be trusted,that I was confident and I was strong.
And I did get to a point whereI was on that, that side of
pride that you're talking about.
(31:43):
Mm-hmm.
When things were going really good, and then the moment that I
didn't feel like I was on top or Ifelt like someone was outperforming me.
Mm-hmm.
The shame that you were talkingabout was running the show.
Yeah.
And so now, you know, I'm still in the business world.
I'm now starting my own business.
And the way that I'm approaching itand the way that I'm going into it
is intentionally so different fromhow I had been doing it in the past
(32:07):
because of what God has revealedto me and showed me about pride.
You know, our, our world tells us, likeyou're saying, go as fast as you can.
Make as much money as you can.
Be as successful as you can.
And that's the pace I was going at.
Yeah.
And it burnt me.
Yeah.
A huge reason why I restarted mypodcast was for that reason, I was
(32:27):
trying to publish weekly episodes thatwas a grind on top of a nine to five.
I was trying to make the podcast assuccessful as possible to, you know, I
wanted to monetize it, and I was just onthis journey that was sprinting towards
this end goal that I believed would.
Make me feel fulfilledand make me feel happy.
(32:50):
And I did grow it.
I, I did, I did monetize it.
Yeah.
I started selling merch.
Mm-hmm.
But all of it led me to aplace of feeling not enough.
Yeah.
And that god-sized hole that I had in me.
Mm-hmm.
None of it filled it.
It didn't matter how many listens Igot, how many people I collaborated
with, how much merch I sold.
(33:10):
It didn't matter how well I wasperforming in my nine to five.
All of these things did not make me feelthe way that I thought I was gonna feel.
And I think it's so interesting, like.
All of us spend our entire existencetrying to fill that God-sized
toll with everything but God.
So even though it had been suchan excruciating experience to get
(33:33):
to the place that I wanted to be,only for it to end up not being
anything that I thought it would be.
I'm so glad.
That, that, that God showed that to me.
Mm-hmm.
At such a young age at, yeah.
At 27, you're, how old are you?
24. 24. So he showed you the samething, like what a gift it is that
he would humble us at such a youngage and not let me go my whole life
(33:55):
without knowing what I know now.
Yeah.
I think many people don't havethat realization until like maybe
a midlife crisis when they're 50.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it was humblingand excruciating, but yeah.
Now I can go forward in mybusiness with a humble heart.
Yeah.
And to know that this is not all aboutme and that the success of my business
(34:16):
or not is not an indicator of my worth.
And to not put my worthinto that going forward.
And something that you were saying earlierabout building relationships with the
community in business, like relationshipsreally are everything, but I think so
many people approach them transactionallywith this undertone of like.
(34:36):
Okay, well what can yougive me out of this?
Sure.
Or what do I get out of it?
Sure.
And I find if I go into an interaction
mm-hmm.
With anybody more focused on, okay, how can I love you?
How can I show Jesus's loveto you in this interaction?
How can I help you?
Like, what advice could I give you?
Or encouragement, how could Ijust make you feel not alone?
(34:56):
And I approach it that way andtrust that the business will come
and, and not see every interactionas, oh, what can you give me?
Yeah.
I just know that that is going toone foster so many more genuine
relationships in my life that willlast a lifetime rather than be
like one off quick transactions.
Yeah.
And two, I find that that helps meto truly see people as people So.
(35:22):
That's a long answer, but No, that's,
Sam Johnson (35:24):
that's such a great answer.
Yeah.
And the, the things you spoke to andsaid, I, I see not just in the business
world, but in a, a lot of people's lives.
'cause again, it's the way of the world.
Yeah.
It's, it's the way we're, we'retaught and we've been riding those
waves for our, our whole lives untilwe do come to this realization.
Amen.
That, amen.
That our worth and value's nottied to the things that we do.
(35:46):
Yes.
I remember listening to a sermon one time.
There was this, uh.
Author, and I'm blanking on his name.
I think his first name's Jack.
I forget his last name.
Okay.
But he was at like thepinnacle of book writing.
He was the most successful author.
I think he sold like 26 top sellers.
And I remember he was in an interviewand he was just like, the interviewer
asked him like, so Jack, whatdoes it feel like to be at the.
(36:09):
The top of the world, the, the,the pinnacle of book writing.
And you know what he answered?
He said, when you get to thetop, there's nothing there.
EmLed (36:18):
Mm.
Sam Johnson (36:18):
That's, he said, I got all that I wanted.
And when I got there, Istill didn't feel satisfied.
Mm. There was stillsomething not enough in me.
And I, I think that that really spoketo, to me because, in my journey to,
to earn my worth and value throughother things other than the freely
unmerited, unearned love of God thatcame to me when I was at my worst mm uh,
(36:44):
when I was finding it in other places.
was exhausting to maintain,Performance on this range of attributes
I was using to assess myself.
EmLed (36:53):
Yep.
Sam Johnson (36:53):
It's exhausting.
It is.
And it was not fulfilling.
Even when I got what I wanted,there was nothing there.
Right.
I realized I got what I wanted.
I worked all so hard to get thisand I got it and I still feel empty.
Yep.
And you know, I think that, uh,you know, Jesus shows us that.
Not that, it's just, he does say it'sbetter to give than to receive, but that's
(37:16):
actually where life is found, he says, mm.
And uh, it's funny, I, I watched theSchindler's list recently, the movie
EmLed (37:23):
I've never seen it.
Sam Johnson (37:24):
It's uh, it's a heavy movie in a long movie.
So, uh, maybe save it for a rainy day.
But it's about Nazi Germany and,a lot of the Jews that were being
sent into concentration camps,but this guy, Oscar Schindler,
EmLed (37:37):
yeah.
Sam Johnson (37:37):
Says, okay, world War II's here.
I'm a wise businessman.
I can make money off this war.
So he had, uh, a lot of.
Very, very poor Jews that were in aghetto from Nazi Germany in their power.
And he said, I can hire this cheap laborand I can sell pots and pans to the,
(37:58):
uh, German army and make a lot of money.
And boy did he, I have cheap labor.
I'm, I've smart business skills.
And he was very, very successful.
Made a ton of money.
But he was kind of focused on himself.
Yeah.
At the beginning of the movie,he was like, it's all about
my business, my own, my this.
But as the movie goes on, he startsseeing the treatment that these Jews
(38:18):
are getting from, from the Nazis.
Mm-hmm.
He, uh, and from soldiers, he, hisheart starts to soften a little bit.
He starts to realize like, this is wrong.
Like, what I'm doing is not, not right.
I'm, I'm making money off of peoplewho are being persecuted and.
By the end of the movie he made allthis money, had all of the success,
(38:40):
and realizes all my friends that I metthat were working in my factory are
getting sent to Auschwitz right now.
And I know that that's a one way trip.
I'm going to take all my money,I'm gonna buy them back from, uh,
Auschwitz to, to work for a company.
And this was towards the end of the war.
And he did, he, uh, he hired over athousands, uh, I think over a thousand
(39:02):
Jews that were, were sent there to workin his factory, which kind of took them
away from that camp right at the endof the war when they were just, all
the bad things were happening, right?
at the end of the movie, he hadlike this panic attack of, I had
all this money, all these things,and I bought back these people.
But he's sitting there at theend, like he's looking down.
He is like this ring thatcould have been two people I.
(39:23):
Why did I keep it?
Oh, this card, this card.
10 people that could have been 10more people, I could have sold it.
And he's having this panic attack andit took, uh, uh, one of his Jewish
friends to say, Oscar generationswill be changed because of you.
Families will go on forcenturies because of you.
And what he found was life was found in.
(39:44):
Laying down his own life and hisown resources for the sake of
others versus, uh, getting his own,having his own and disadvantaging
others for his own advantage, right?
That real life was foundand disadvantaging himself
for, for others' advantage.
And I, I just remember getting chillswhen, when he did that, and, I think
that Solomon's a great example inthe scriptures as well of he was
(40:07):
arguably one of the wealthiest kings.
Uh, he had everything he wanted.
Yeah, he had all the women, uh, lots,he had all the money, gold and silver.
He had everything he wanted.
And at the end of his life as he'slooking back, like on his deathbed,
just about his life it says in.
Ecclesiastes two 11, he says, yet,when I surveyed all that my hands
(40:29):
had done and what I had toiled toachieve, everything was meaningless.
Mm. At chasing after the wind.
Mm-hmm.
And nothing was gained under the sun.
And he has this realization ofI got everything that I wanted.
I had it all, but nothingwas gained under the sun.
It, it, it vanishes.
Mm. he writes it as a. As a message toremind people of like all the success and
(40:56):
pleasures and things of this world, uh,chasing after them is not as fulfilling
as laying down your, your, your ownlife and your using your giftings and
things for the flourishing of humanity.
EmLed (41:08):
Amen.
Because
Sam Johnson (41:08):
when you get to your deathbed and your life, you realize
this world is different because.
I was in it.
EmLed (41:14):
Mm.
Sam Johnson (41:14):
And I, I didn't just live for me, I lived for, for others.
And there's gonna be generationalimpacts because of that.
EmLed (41:20):
Mm.
Sam Johnson (41:21):
And, and I think that's why Jesus, he says, for for whoever wants
to save their life, will, will lose it.
Yeah.
But whoever loses his lifefor, for my sake, will find it.
Mm. That when we try to save and preserveour own lives and our own success,
our own things, we end up losing it.
Because when we die, we justconsumed, we took it all.
But when we lose our life for others,mm. When we give with our time, our, our
(41:45):
talents and our treasure, our money, whenwe give it all, we actually find life.
'cause we realize I lived a meaningful andpurposeful life that wasn't just about me.
those scriptures really impacted me ina, in a way where I was like, Lord, I
don't wanna just live for me or myself.
Mm-hmm.
And the world teaches that a
EmLed (42:03):
hundred percent.
Sam Johnson (42:04):
And like you said earlier, like money's not evil.
EmLed (42:08):
Mm-hmm.
Sam Johnson (42:09):
Caring for yourself's not evil.
Uh, and arguably it's, it's wrong to you.
You can't love otherswithout being okay yourself.
Absolutely.
Of course.
That can't just be the end of theno, that can't be the end of it.
Like real life is found in layingdown your life for others in
whatever capacity that you're doing.
I don't care if you're in ministry, youdon't care if you work for a nonprofit.
(42:29):
I don't care if you're in the businessworld, God has gifted you with
specific talents and giftings, usethose for the flourishing of humanity.
Hmm.
Uh, one of my heroes, Dr. Martin LutherKing, Jr. Uh, he has this quote of,
If a man is called to be a streetsweeper, he should sweep the streets.
Even as Michelangelo painted or asBeethoven composed music or Shakespeare
(42:53):
wrote poetry, he should sweep the streetsso well that all the hosts of heaven and
earth will pause to say, here lived agreat street sweeper who did his job well.
So I, I say that because,uh, I'm not a street sweeper.
Uh, I don't think you are, butthere's someone out there who has that
gifting and no matter where you are.
What business you're in, what occupationyou're in, you can use your life, your,
(43:17):
your time, your giftings and your talentsand, and your treasure towards the
flourishing of humanity in those spaces.
Mm. Live it out to the fullest.
That's where real purpose,fulfillment, and life is found.
Jesus says, amen.
And that's, that's my encouragementto, to anyone feeling the, the
pressures of the business world.
' When you're all about performanceand, and earning your way to the
(43:38):
top, every single person that's alsosuccessful is deemed as a threat.
Mm. Or is deemed as this, you don't seethem as a person, you see 'em as a threat.
Exactly.
EmLed (43:44):
Exactly.
Sam Johnson (43:45):
And it's exhausting to maintain that when you realize that.
Hey, no matter where I am, I'm freeto give and I'm free to contribute
to their success because theirsuccess is not a threat to mine.
Mm. And I, I trust that I'mgonna be provided for, uh,
because I have a good father.
Exactly.
It's a much, much freerand fuller way of life.
Mm. So awesome.
And that's where life is found.
(44:06):
So well said.
Yeah.
EmLed (44:08):
Amen.
Wow.
There's so much from that, that.
I could elaborate on you talkedabout the book of Ecclesiastes, which
was such a, a wake up call for me.
Mm-hmm.
Coming back to my faith, I read that and Ifelt like God punched me between the eyes.
Mm-hmm.
That whole book, it's like, okay, soI can spend my whole life chasing all
these things and get to the end of itand realize it was all for nothing.
(44:31):
Yeah.
Or.
I can humble myself and allow God to fillthat hole and be forever changed by it.
And like you said,actually experience life.
I think.
I don't know how it was for yougrowing up, but for me growing up in,
in the Christian faith, my belief andunderstanding of the gospel was I.
Basically about whereyou go after you die.
(44:53):
Sure.
And I didn't, I didn't understand thatfollowing Jesus and really experiencing
his love and letting it change me wouldchange my life and how I live it here
and now.
And now understanding that and being like, okay, so this isn't
just about getting into heaven.
This is about.
Letting the Lord love meinto being a person of love.
(45:14):
Yeah.
And letting that change the waythat I interact with other people.
Kind of exactly what you said, likeyou just realize the way that you're
going through life and moving andtreating other people and your mentality
and almost that scarcity mindset.
Yeah.
Then shifts to one of abundance.
Mm-hmm.
Where you're like, oh, actually.
I'm gonna go throughout my dayand see much how I can love
(45:36):
how, how can I love people?
How can I show up?
And yeah, letting that be what leads youand what drives you and motivates you.
And then trusting that God will provide,like I've already seen that happen
in the last few months of my life.
Like it's nothing that I'vedone, it's just God showing up
because of how I've chosen toput my faith and my trust in him.
Sam Johnson (45:56):
Yeah.
And that's, uh, that'sso full and freeing.
Yeah, it really is.
That's so good, Emily.
EmLed (46:03):
Yeah.
Well, I would love to close out withone final question and allow you
to share any other final thoughtsthat you have for our audience.
But my last question to you is, inaddition to all the great amazing
wisdom that you've shared today, mm-hmm.
If you had to leave one person who'sjust really wrestling with life,
they're really, really struggling.
(46:23):
Maybe they don't feel fulfilledin their career, they feel
lost, they don't have purpose.
And you just had to give them one pieceof simple advice, what would it be?
Sam Johnson (46:31):
Yeah.
I, and this is advice I, Idon't just give to this person.
It's advice I give tomyself every single day.
Know your belovedness in God.
Know your belovedness in God.
If you're failing in your business, ifyou're failing as a parent, if you're,
if you're failing by worldly standards onthis thing or that know that the love of
God is there, uh, so much deeper than youthink, and so much deeper than, you know,
(46:56):
know that belovedness because it's fromthat belovedness that you're gonna love.
Well.
It's the beloved who can love knowthat live in it, abide in it daily.
Mm. You'll find freedom nomatter how hard things get.
EmLed (47:09):
Mm. So good.
So good, Sam.
Well thank you so muchfor joining me today.
Yeah, absolutely.
And for just opening your heartand being so raw and honest.
You know, I find the most compellingpieces of content or literature,
whatever that I can consume,is the one where people are
willing to open their heart Sure.
And be honest and share, so, mm-hmm.
(47:30):
I just wanna thank you and commendyou for the courage that you had.
Doing that today.
Thank
Sam Johnson (47:33):
you.
I appreciate it.
Emily, this was so fun.
Thanks for inviting me on your podcast.
Uh, listeners, please lilisten to all of her episodes.
She is doing amazing.
Thank you.
And um, thanks so much for inviting me.
EmLed (47:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you.
Do you wanna plug yourselffor Vigilant Hope?
How can people get in touch with you?
Sam Johnson (47:48):
Sure, yeah.
If you are local to the Wilmingtonarea or not and wanna support us,
you, I mean, of course there's ways.
Uh, financially across the countryor the world, you could support us.
But for sure, if you're local tothe Wilmington area, want to get
involved you can visit our websiteat vigilant Hope slash outreach.
Uh, we have lots of our gatherings andopportunities to volunteer on that page.
(48:09):
Uh, vigilant Hope slash trainingfor, if you want us to come and
speak at your church or visit yoursmall group, whatever it might be.
We are, we are here to help youdiscern how can you love your city?
Well.
How can you love your neighbors?
Well, uh, we wanna walk with you on that.
You can also shoot me an email, uh,sam@vigilanthope.com with any questions.
If you want to donate, you cansupport, uh, you can support, support
(48:33):
us financially through vi I thinkit's vigilant hope.com/donate.
You can click down themake a donation tab.
You can, uh, choose where you, whereyou want it to go, which fund you
can choose, whether you want it tobe recurring or just a one-time gift.
And as always, those are always, youcan support us, support the mission.
It's not our mission.
We, uh.
We're just distributors of, of whatGod gives us and we're, we're gonna
(48:57):
do it the best way that we can,
EmLed (48:58):
so.
Mm-hmm.
Awesome.
I will link all of those links in theshow notes so people can easily go click.
But yeah, definitely.
Go check out Vigilant Hoopswebsite and reach out to Sam.
Oh, come
Sam Johnson (49:07):
get a cup of coffee, please.
Yes.
And come get a cup of coffee.
We, we have anything?
Uh, lattes flat whites.
Pour overs.
Ooh.
Black coffee, iced coffee.
Yes.
You guys have the best coffee,
uh, drip everything.
So, uh, you can buy beans from us.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, all of that's supporting the mission,so that's a really easy way as well.
EmLed (49:23):
Yes.
And the coffee shop is so cute.
Great vibes.
Yeah.
So go check it out.
All right, well this was anotherepisode of Wrestling with Life.
Thank you again, Sam,and we will talk soon.
Y'all.
Sam Johnson (49:34):
Sounds great.
Thanks everyone.
EmLed (49:35):
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.