September 1, 2024 • 39 mins
Today on the Daily Bespoke Podcast, we talk to former Police crisis negotiator, Lance Burdett about his new book on living well in an anxious world...
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Speaker 1 (00:18):
It's goods.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's the second of September in the Year of Our Lord,
twenty twenty four. Welcome Rgie Bespoke you Doc. He's to
the Daily Bespoke podcast today. We've got He's not here
yet because it's their new system where week we start
the pot and people come in and just we just
throw them into the deep end, don't we.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
We've got got bloody Lance. That's right, Lance Yeah. Lance Bird,
former police negotiator Lance Bird.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, and the author of a new book called Anxiety
is a Worry. Yeah, Understanding and Maintaining Anxiety. Also wrote
the book The Dark Side of the Brain, and he
was a police negotiator for many years.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I've been beavering away some questions or morning actually books,
and so my first question is, and this is one
that I've crafted, what's it like to be a police negotiator?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's not bad? That is not bad? First question, and
I ask him, oh, caf.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
He finishes the interview and walks out.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
How you know how people say that the world is
more anxiety reducing than ever. I call bas on that.
I think it would be pretty anxiety inducing being in
the middle of World War two, don't you And that
would be pretty anxious time with your kids overseas fighting
and wars, or being overseas fighting wars. The year was
(01:57):
at five point thirty six when that Icelandic volcano covered
the whole earth and blocked out the sun for a year.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Stressful times.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
That was stressful, stressful in new crops, and you didn't
know anything about what was happening, and you thought that
it was the end of the world. And suddenly the
sun didn't rise one morning. You're like, well, that's annoying
because we need that. And then the plague kit because
the crops failed and people were unwell, and also the
Roman Empire had broken down one hundred years before that,
so it was just absolutely more rule, genocide and fighting
(02:30):
all the time. But now people say that it's an
anxiety anxious time. Why are people more anxious now than
they were then?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Wasn't that the worst year? They sort of reckon, that's
possibly the worst year ever in recorded history. Yeah, there
would have been a worse year some other time that
we don't know anything about. I mean, those early days
of Earth when there were just volcanoes going off the
whole time, and there was no anything I was thinking
about it.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
We sit in this false sense of security. I mean
Lake Tope war was not created that long ago. I
mean Marcus Aurelius's sun commedis was aware that something weird
had happened.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Was that two thousand years ago them?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, yeah, roughly I think one one hundred and sixty
five or something ad AD. Yeah, So that's in the
terms of geological and the Earth that is like that.
So that means that could happen now.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I mean less volcanoes now than they've ever been.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, it's just that if you compact history, right, so
the volcanoes go off, yeah, but you know, human in
terms of human lives and the amount of lives, and
there was no one in New Zealand at the time.
It feels like they don't go off that often, but
they're still just going off in terms of the great
march of time. So if one went off that long ago,
(03:50):
it could go off tomorrow. And that that I mean
that was written about in China, and it was written
about in Italy that some weird ship was in the
sky and it blocked out the sun and crops were
fucked up, and that was just Tope wore blowing up.
So that could happen. That happened. Now, that would be
the end of our country. How did the fucking excuse me,
how did the fucking kiwis and such survive that? How
(04:14):
did all our fucking fauna?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Maybe it didn't, maybe it had a bit of a changeover, but.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
The more were around when the first Polynesians arrived.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It's true. Well it must have gone in a direction, right.
So when the ash, the plumes and all of that
stuff took off. Have you seen the wind?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Have you seen that big that was? There's a lot
of man so, yeah, I know, but there was. It's
hanging out the back of commotists in Italy.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah. But when it went up right, Okay, so I'm
just imagining this. I wasn't there, but what I imagined?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Where were you or something?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Me?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, pray goo? Is therea that?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I think?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So it went up right because it was a mountain,
Yeah was it? I don't know. It's the opposite of
one now I think. I think it was a mountain.
And so then it just blew the ship out of itself.
But all of the ash and it must have gone
on for quite a long time. It wasn't just a
sort of a day or a week or anything like that.
It must have blown for quite a long time to
blow itself completely. But in that time that that ash
(05:20):
is gone, it's buggering off to Italy. It's buggering off
to the rest of the earth. You know, it's not
just sitting around. I mean, it's kind of work. It's
kind of worse for eventually, it's worse for all right,
I see what you're saying, because it gets blown. It
was like a long, thin place day one average for
New Zealand. Yeah, I imagine ship. Did you see the
(05:42):
lightning storm that was last week in Auckland. There was
one just above my house. The whole house rocked. I
got quite scared. It was, you know, because you tell
how far away it is from the distance between the
flesh and the bank, because of the speed of light
compared to the speed of south and this was.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Like flash oh yeah, right, it was quite fucking full on.
And then all the alarm suit off on the street
like a disaster.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Me.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Hey, something weird happened to me on Caroline Saturday morning.
I was watching Hugo's rugby game and it was absolutely heaving. Now,
like I'm talking to wrenchal heaving the kind of heaving
that only normally lasts five minutes. It lasted forty minutes.
It just kept going, going, going, playing rugby. Yeah, and
then there was lightning and bang right above me, and
(06:30):
I felt I had an.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Umbrella risky and lightning mate or what.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
It was I meant to do? I don't know. It's
going to be lightning.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Better to get wet than get a bloody lightning stroke.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And it felt it go through my through my thing.
So your thing I felt go through my thing. You're
downstairs the stick of my umbrella rod? Did it feel good?
And you think? No? It freaked me out because it
was sitting on my shoulder and that's the but it
gave me a little static like a well, I've got
a question.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
You did Hugo's team adept to the conditions and sort
of shut things down and playing ten men rugby?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
They lost?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Are they fling flying it around like they were.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Too focused on They were two at halftime. When they
came in for the halftime huddle, there was a giant puddle.
I mean, I'm going to say fifty percent of the
field was underwater. Yeah, it was the next level, but
there was a giant puddle and they all ran towards it,
and then did they caught their hands behind their back
and they all dived head first, sliding into the puddle.
See I main, Come on, ye play rugby. You don't
(07:27):
see the all blacks doing that deep. You're there to
play rugby. You know you're twelve.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Come on, I remember being playing in wet conditions and
you would sort of engineer the entire situation so you
could end up just falling into the puddle.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
If you were playing football on this, it would have
been a disaster. They all just would have stopped, would
have just gone into the saw a couple of cases
the puddle.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
And lining up a slide tackle from twenty meters away
so you can do it through the puddle.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Did they still get their oranges? Yeah, they got the oranges. Yep.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
No, they still heat those oranges up and microwave for
thirty seconds to give.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Them the mate. No mate, because it wasn't actually that
cold wheeling. It was not quite warm. But at the
end of it, and this was quite shocking. Can you
get that micro in front? Mate?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Can you keep that a mic right close up to
your mouth?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
You're looking out there? Anything you look at it and
as you've.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Seen about it, fished away from your mouth about fished
away from miss just talk straight into my shoulder, just
the front. Twenty five years broadcasting experience, and you still
haven't worked out that if you start talking over here
because you're looking at the girls walking past, you still
hear something.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You can still hear something to the front. I actually
missed that to the front. People don't people showy as well?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I was going to say that, Ellie, isn't your fashion
runway for you to just ogle people what you're supposed
to be doing a podcast?
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Mate, Mate, their eyes aren't below the bottom of their back, okaye,
eyes up here.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
They can see through at us looking at them. I'll
just put that out of there.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I don't suppose you didn't put your neck out of quickly.
You flipped around there, okay, you feel it? Right after
the whiplash.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
As I was saying interrupted.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
To the front, two of the guys on this team
that the chowy of what kind of from dirty water,
puddle water, showy pard water dur the game, they did
a showy and recognition.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
He no, thanks, it's even worse from you what just
turning around and going those thanks there was no offer.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Made mash do not make a video of that. Do
not make a video of that. So anyway they did
it was one of them your sons or not. No,
that's good, that wasn't. But I'm wondering whether i'd like
to check and actually with their dads today and see
what any of them got kept a bactor? Do you if.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
No see traits and young people that suggest how they're
going to pave later on. If I see a kid
doing a bog water showy, I'm like, that guy's going
to be real party. That guy's going to be a
good time at parties.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Hondy p Is it anyone not done a showy here?
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Those will be the two guys that are going to
attake a university, I'd say, yeah, out of that group,
you have done a show.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I've never done a show man. Have you done a
show that makes sense to me?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Have I done a showy?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, I've done a show. Is it a relatively new thing?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
This show?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I don't want to Yeah, I think it is pretty new. Yeah,
in the last twenty years. I'd say it's pretty disgusting,
it's pretty grim.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
I don't know if you really want to be doing one,
especially like a football boot a footy booter for a game,
especially worth e Coli.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Water down at Western Springs? Is that what's in the
water down there? Oh? Imnagine it would be. I mean
it's got mud.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Oh were you playing at Western Springs at the bottom
of the hill.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Oh man, how does the water drain out of there?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It doesn't. It's basically it's like the lowest point in Auckland.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah, because they were going to have concerts there a
few years ago and they just keep raining and they
can not drain the thing fast enough.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
During those floods, those Anniversary weekend floods, she was underwater
down there. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
We're going to take a break and then we're going
to come back potentially with this Lance burt It, that's.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
One that's main coffee. Welcome, Lance burt It. It's nice
to see you again. Lance, Thanks so much. Great to
be here. Lance. You've got a new book out and
it's called Anxiety Is a Worry.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You'll go to guide on living well and an increasingly
anxious world, Understanding and managing anxiety. Interesting is that we
were just talking before about this. It's funny how people
are more anxious now, but it's probably not the most
worrying or anxious time in the history of humanity to
live in real terms, if you know what I mean.
Like so, say, for example, being in the middle of
(11:32):
World War two would have been a more arguably anxiety
inducing time, but people weren't necessarily as anxious as they
are now.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Because in those days they had to think, right, these days,
we don't. We just somebody's done a video. Would you
just ask me a question? I went straight to my
phone to google it. Yeah, right, so you don't have
to think you're not joining your prefrontal cortex. Ninety percent
of the brain's effort's done in the background. They call
it system one now, so that's the unconscious and subconscious.
(12:02):
Only ten percent of our day is spent in our
prefrontal cortex. Every fifteen seconds, our brain wanders off and
we don't realize it. Right, So while I'm talking to you,
I've already thought about I've got lunch, to reassure myself
that I've stopped off in the right hair and got lunch.
So the brain has about a fifteen second span of
staying in the moment and then just wanders off.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, and simulates a lot of it as well, doesn't it.
So it's actually, you know, when you actually look out
what you're seeing, a lot of it is just being
made up.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
It's well, that's what anxiety is. Anxiety is fear about
something that hasn't happened and will probably never happen. Yeah,
it's always future based. That's the difference between fear. Fear
is something that is real and you are going to
do something and you can see it. Anxiety isn't it
Basically it's just inside your head.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
And what's the difference between anxiety and worry?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
So worry so worrying. So the definition of anxiety is
worrying thoughts. Right, anxiety is continuously worrying, and it's debilitating.
We all get anxious, we all have anxiety, but true anxiety.
But anxiety is not a thing. There's so many different
types of anxiety. But the general thing we talk about
(13:16):
with anxiety is it's overpowering. Now, most people who have anxiety,
true anxiety, can't even get out of bed. Yeah, and
they're just grateful they woke up in the morning. Wow,
that's pretty it's debilitating.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, it's interesting because was it really originally is obviously
a part of our brain that we needed to make
sure that we were protected against certain things that were
going I mean, it was a lot of animals for example,
wouldn't it be able to experience.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
It's well, yeah, that's we're going to go with that
one hundred places. So animals do have a limbic system,
but not not as advanced as are so all the
worryings done in the limbic system now, dogs, dolphins, and
horses have very advanced. So there's a connection between humans
and those three us because because of that, Yeah, because
because they have advanced the limbic systems from us. Well
(14:08):
could be because because it is a part of the
brain that grows what is the limbic system, So it's
the what they call the emotional brain. So in there
it's the basil ganglia, all these weird terms you've heard of.
It's got the amygdala and our hyper campus and those
are two big ones. So going back to your start
of you know, we're wired. So our brain has one
purpose to keep us alive. That's all it's there for.
(14:30):
The informations just are nice to have, and it runs
on instinct and that's in our stem. Our stem is
hard wiring of the brain, and so it's wired to
get up, go out, get some food, come back, clean
the cave, have a feed, go to sleep.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Just don't die six right, that comes along. So that's
part of the Messlow's basic layer. Yes, that's all good.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
If you can get.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Migler's fight, flight and fornication.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Well yeah, well so that's what happens during COVID. That's
why the COVID baby's right a sense of security by
having sex. In other words, we're procreating, right, which is
we are building the building humanity. We're adding to the population,
of course, so we're wined for that. Now. The brain
is continuously looking for danger to avoid it, and that's
the purpose of the amigdala. So don't go down by
(15:17):
the river. The last time you went down by the river,
a crocodile came out to nearly ate you. So the
brain registers river crocodile, Avoid all rivers or you will die. However,
the brain doesn't register you got away from the crocodile.
So what the brain should be reminding you is a
doubt to that crocodile. Bring on the next one. And
that's what we need to do today because we are
(15:39):
wired to hide.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, because say if you are invited, like in a
very simple way, so you've got social anxiety and you're
invited to a party and you don't go, your brain
goes you didn't go, and you didn't die.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So not going was safe and success.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
So you get you get a reward of dopamine.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
That was good.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
That was good, we didn't die. So let's just stay
in our room. Now, that's good.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
So understanding neurochemicals and how they work on neurotransmitters, so
we only learn from one dopamins the only neurochemical we
learn from. Now what neuroscience, you know, brain imaging is
finding is that you get a reward by doing those things,
but the brain is wide. Get to the top of
the mountain, I'll reward you right, here's your dopamine. What
(16:26):
we have to do today is start taking on dopamine
more often and regulated amounts and regular amounts. For example,
we now need to get dopamine when we plan to
do the mountain, when we start to organize things, we
get people together, when we start to train and at
little short steps. Right now, what dopamine does, it's like
putting water into clay. It makes water and clay makes
(16:48):
it soft and malleable. Same with the brain. With dopamine,
it's the only chemical we learn from So every time
you do something.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You learn from it.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
That's how we end up with procrastination. That's how we
end up with worry. Now, every time you worry about something,
it never happens, right, it never does. No, it's because
the brain over exaggerates wor catastrophizing. So when it doesn't happen,
your brain wi wards you. With dopamin it says, now
here's the pattern. See something, worry intensely about it, it
(17:18):
won't happen.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Then go, that's that's interesting because I read this book
by doctor Judson Brewer.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And you're anxiety.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what he said. He said, it's
close to addiction.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Well, it is addictive. Anxiety is addictive.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Phones of addicted. I mean how many times we will
sit here with our phone up. I don't I put
it away now on purpose because I have addictive personality. Yeah,
I can see you, I can see it personality.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, yeah, terribly.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I actually I was down in christ Church and I
met someone down in the hotel bar and I left
my phone up in my room extentley, and I just
realized how addicted I was because I was sitting down
there having this string. There was no reason I wasn't
looking for. I didn't need any communication. But the whole
time I'm sitting there, going know my phones in my
room and not here. I know my phones in the room,
not here.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Rings.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, and that's I was fighting the urge to get
in the lift and go up and get my phone.
And then finally I did. He went to the toilet,
this guy, and I went up straight up the lift,
got my phone, came back down and there was two
pointless text messages on there, and I thought, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
You gotta right, And this is this is what's leading
to our young having more anxiety than anyone else. There's
a number of factors involved. Number one, we're born curious,
and we satisfy that curiosity and every way. And now
I'm sitting in front of you talking and you have
a whole selection of Britannica encyclopedias.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It's a lot of a pat That's how we used to.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I used to if I wanted something, I had to
go there and look it up. Old bollocks to that,
I'll just ask somebody, right, we'll go and find out.
I'll go and you know, put that cord on the
wall and see if I get electrocuted. That's how we
learned a little bit dangerous, of course, But today we
learn from just looking and that we're satisfying, oversatisfying our curiosity.
(19:00):
Therefore we're getting over amounts of dopamine and we're disconnecting
and we have now more information in our brain than
ever in history, and so it's making us hyper vigilant.
So I hear people talk about how young oh they're soft.
They are not soft. They are hyper vigilant to risk.
(19:21):
They know because they've seen it in videos. They know
more about stuff. I've heard young kids talk on TikTok
and I'm thinking, you must have been a come back
as as a child, but you're an adult. It's because
they know so much, but they over know and their
brain hasn't developed to get to the capacity of being
able to rationalize what those thoughts are.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
So because you see, like on TikTok and stuff, if
there's any piece of violence anywhere in the world, like
someone coming up and just punching someone, yep, then that
pops up and everyone looks at it. And then so
you're saying that, then the middleagoes that's risky, the world's risky,
and so walking down the street now as a risk
even though we shouldn't even know about that piece of violence.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And so this is the way it works. We end
up with these whole lot of irrational thoughts that we
never previously had. We you know, we're the sum of
the five people we grew up with because in my day,
in particular, we didn't have all of this stuff. In fact,
I remember when we got TV, our first TV. But
when I talk with my generation about you know, a
(20:25):
lot of these young people, I just say, well, hang on,
we got TV. Do you remember when color TV came out?
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, it wasn't that great. Did you go outside and
play silence? I know you didn't. And you we invented
TV TV dinners so we could sit and watch TV
without leaving it because you'd missed something because you couldn't
record it.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
So we've had our addiction. Every generation has their addiction,
and we have to learn how to use it properly.
And you watch what will happens. As soon as we
show people how to you learn to use it, and
the brain will adapt, but we don't adapt by getting
to the top of the mountain as quickly. In other words,
total immersion into this stuff will not work. In fact,
(21:07):
scan the Navy and countries six months ago banned electronics
and primary skills for use. So it must have a
stylust because we're hardwired to write with a pen on
a piece of paper. You know, you give a child
a pen, never seen it before? Where to draw? Leave
it for an hour? Comeback, Where's child drawn? Everywhere? On
the walls and on each other? So we're did humans
(21:27):
first learn to draw on the walls and on each other?
So it's hardwired, right, So that's why journaling and that
sort of stuff is very very good for us. So
coming back to the road and life itself, we have
to be able to take on challenges. Now, it's sixty
to eighty days to change a habit, so that's just
a normal habit. You imagine that that habit is Fear
(21:51):
is something that generally is irrational. It is made up
in your head and will never happen. It's hard for
people to get out of that, so you have to
break it into smaller chunks. Now every time you do that,
and you acknowledge them by ticking them off. And what
that does is regulate the dopamine. And it's a dope.
Meat is a motivator, a human motivator. You know, you
(22:13):
have a list of things you want to tick off,
and you tick them all off and then you get right, well,
I've done a couple of other things. You write those
down and you tack those off as well, And that's
just to get the dopamine. So it's about breaking it
down into small chunks and getting used to the uncomfortableness.
We've got to try and get comfortable in the uncomfortable,
but we don't rush at it. Get thrown off a horse,
(22:35):
they say you should get back on it. Rubbish bollocks,
because if the horse throws you have a second time.
You'll never go to horses and will do anything adventurous.
It's about getting back slowly into these things.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Essentially. I talk to the some neuroscientists at Oxford called
Dr Angela Ryanick. I believe, but I might be talking
about the beer there. But she does cognitive behavioral therapy
just by like if someone she's got to rip the
band age off approach. So what she does is if
someone's claustrophobic. She puts them in a cupboard, a cupboard
(23:11):
for you know, to do it all at once, right, Yeah,
and so that's what she's doing, doing experiments on now.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah good luck.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, Well it's I think clinically it works, but it's
just hard day to day life for people to do it.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, And I think that's well from what the research
that I've been doing recently is when you push things
like that, and you push them to the very end,
you could end up leading them into PDSD, and it
has happened. PDSD is increasingly expert.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I think it's probably a bit different when you're let
in by people and white coats and they go, we're
going to put you in a padded thing were there,
and we're talking to you through rather than you know,
like someone just at home that's scared to go to
a party.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
You know, like you hear grabbed by the hit.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But what do you think about that, like, because I
mean that's an approach that parents have, Like you've got
a kid, and I know lots of people have kids
that are just getting everything in their room. You know,
they're playing game, they're on their phone, they're you know
even finding their sexual activity in their room. And you know,
do you just grab them by the hair and throw
them out into the street.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
No, you don't, really, no, no, no, no. Tough love
in all those programs do not work. It's about that
the child has to learn, and they have to learn
at their pace. Now there's a book being written by
so USA. Can't think of us how to pronounce that,
but he's in the sixth edition Neuroscientific Way of Educating People,
and he talks about all of that's stuff. The way
(24:34):
we learn to change our patterns. That's out. This is
how the brain works. We have a one hundred billions of
billions of neurons in our head.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
They look like oak trees.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
One oak tree joins another oak tree joins another oak tree,
and that forms a pattern, right, and that's a hard
wide pattern. And what they're finding through he's finding through
his work is with teaching, is that must be exciting.
So we must get excited about what we're doing. Very
hard to get excited about getting pulled by the hair
and throw of the party. So he also and then
(25:05):
we go onto the other part of this. What neuroscience
is saying is when we get those release of dopamine
for achieving something small, it joins a new oak tree,
a new a new sign AAPS connection, which is that's
a sign apps connection, so that we've got the sign
apps connections outed. So if you want to break a
pattern of any sort, you just break it into smaller
(25:26):
parts and each time you achieve, you slowly join off
and you take your pathway, your neural pathway, on a
slightly different direction outside, and then you just you build
a new one.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Ah right, yeah, you build.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
A new one to get to the end. And you know,
if you've got like anxieties, that's a general one as
social anxiety disorder. Well, that one is because I have
a fear of going to a party, and what people say,
I don't. I don't go to parties. I believe it
or not. I'm an interview. I just I don't like people.
We don't like being around people. It's really uncomfortable for me.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
And you gave us a nice hug when you arrived.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Well that's just for me for you? What about Lance? Okay?
What about what about I mean, I'm currently in a
situation with teenagers. What about kids? Because it's very very
difficult because I think as parents a lot of us
know that devices are in teenagers hands, left completely to
(26:21):
their own device, with devices that can be massively problematic. However,
for a lot of kids, it's a social connection through
through Snapchat. And if you all of a sudden come
down on your children and say, right, you're not allowed
to communicate with us, or I'm going to monitor this,
and all the other parents are not doing that, then
you can ostracize your children, and then you create a
new anxiety, which is with their friends. How do you
(26:44):
navigate that successfully?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Do you think the problem at the moment was I'll
take a leap here to go to the fact of
banning phones at schools. Right, So New York has just
reversed that ban in schools because of the harm it's causing. Now,
when you look at the research about this, this is
adults reading research that adults have done. The reporting from
(27:12):
children is self reported in those studies, so they are
It's one you've got poor information. Two you've got a
different mind thinking about that data and what you can
do with it. We all base our I guess our
learnings are all based in our past. This is a
new world. People have to sort of understand the I
(27:37):
mean So what neuroscience done is it's fantastic. It's underpin
psychology now and psychologists are going back to relearn about
the brain because some of the things that they got
taught years ago weren't quite right according to the neural
part of what they've said, the way the brain lights up.
So coming back to your point, we all must learn
one thing, and that is discipline, because discipline provides us
(28:00):
with a sense of control. We fear one thing in life,
and that's loss of property, loss of life, loss of dignity,
loss of control. When you take something away, they've lost
control of it, leaving them with the phone and saying
don't touch it. It's the old marshmallow experiment from years
ago too. If you can stop, don't dig that marshmallow.
I'm not going to tee you how long, but if
you wait long enough, I'll give you two. And so
(28:23):
those that waited long enough got too and they got
a double reward. And that's pretty much what we're talking
about here. Children. It's not their time on device, it's
what they're doing on the device. And some people use
it and I've got a close family member who's used
it to support to get out of depression with somebody
(28:46):
else overseas in Australia and another one in America, and
they've all connected together. Now that's what mobile phones are for.
That's what our smartphones are about. You take that away.
That's gone, So we don't we're not asking children what
you're doing. A lot of the researchers just generalizations. It's
not based on proper valid information. And so I've gone
(29:10):
and looked at metadata gone right outside of the scope
of anxiety. And then when I find a topic, I
go even further outside. I want to know more information
about And that's how you sort of end up with
something that I guess is a holistic approach to managing
that you put things back onto the person. So with
your teenager, you just put it back onto them and
(29:32):
say are you able to tell me what you're on,
how long you're doing it for, and why you need it,
and just explore why and say, yeah, what looks is it?
But just know that at the moment, until your brain
fully is adapt fully adapts, it's going to be open
to take you into different places. The way they've set
(29:52):
up all information and as you say, it goes to
this real negative place all the time. You know, the
most dangerous stuff. So what are you doing? When you
see that? You'll be surprised the number of well, you
probably won't be the number of teenagers that go, I
don't watch that stuff. You know, I doom scroll. The
reason I doom scroll on X is just because I
just kind of like the fights, and you know, I
(30:14):
was thinking what and I got there and I'm going,
what are you doing? Lance? Yeah, a sixty six year
old man doom scrolling fighting on X. There's something wrong
with your brain, boy, And I stopped myself and so
I don't do it anymore because it just it's actually
wanted to avoid. But it's about giving them the opportunity
(30:35):
to control their own devices, knowing what the outcome of
it is if they don't.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
So would you go? So would you set challenges where
you say, so you're on there? How do you feel
about that? Because my kids refit to their phones is
brain rot. They're like, oh god, a brain rot, and
that's something that a lot of their friends are calling it.
So I just did some brain roight, that person's that
person's And they kind of judge other people that are
on Tiktote too, match go, They talk about these people,
(31:02):
so you know, they kind of they know, they know
that it's bad, most of them. I mean, my kids
might be lucky in their regard. So do you just
say but I still see them on the phone. Like
I actually got home. I've been away for the weekend,
got home for Father's Day dinner, and I looked around
and both my sons and my girlfriend were on their phones,
sitting on the couch, and I was like, what the
fuck are we doing here? Like, yeah, so do you go?
(31:26):
You know, you don't take the phone right off them?
But would you say you go get off the phone?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Now?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
No, you wouldn't know. So when's a good time to
get off the phone? Did you say that to them?
When's a good time to get.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Off the phone?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
When's a good time?
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Yeah, when's a good time? Change your language? And they well,
now you're go, oh.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, that's quite good. That's quite good. I quite like that.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
So you don't get off your phone. It's Father's Day
of bloody young, grateful little shits.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I pay for everything around here.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Oh no, you're taking me back.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
This is the weird. So you go, when would be
a good time?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
When it's a good time talk.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Now, who's a.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Good time for you? You know, you come to me
when you've decided it's a good time to not be
on your phone.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Come out on the opposite of that as a period.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Because we're wired in vital flight. So you we're wired
to push to guide, to help, don't help people, help
people help themselves.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Right, So we learn our parenting is get away from
the edge of that cliff, don't You're right?
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Exactly right, we've got to you've got well, you know
you need to go the near the air of the
edge of the cliff, but you do need to know
what the boundaries are, how close to the cliff you
can go.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
This makes so much sense. So you say to them
that and then they go, oh, I'm going to do
the choice of putting my phone down to be part
of the situation. So I've of one that's round rather
than lost, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
So it's always about giving them the sense that it
was my decision. Yeah, So when we when we be
good fust because you could also start with it's great
that we all can come together on Father's Day. Right,
that's a little snarky, sarci. And you walk past and
sit down and turn the TV on. Yeah, but I
(33:06):
prefer the one is. Look, when when's a good time
for us to all chat over dinner?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Paps?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
In other words, And you've also given them a bit
of a guide as to when you're going to put
your phone down and the phones don't go to the table.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah yeah, no, but no need for a phone at
the table.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
But that is interesting. The worst thing you can do
is you're on your phone and then you decide you're
a piece of shit and you put the phone down
and go Jesus Christ. We all spend too much time
on our bloody phone. Everyone get off your phone. They're like,
I've just been copying you.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
But I've got a worse thing. So what I do
is if I'm on my phone, I don't even want
my kids to see me on my phone because I think, well,
if I'm on my phone, then they'll see that. So
what happens sometimes is I'll be in the lounge and
I'll be on my phone, and then I'll hear the
kids coming up the stairs and I'll be like, oh,
quickly put my phone down beside me. But then I
think about that, so I'm really being sneaky.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
So I going to what now you're you're getting probably
a bit of quartisole with that. It's only a bit
of guilt. I just went on my phone because we
were talking about phones, and then involuntarily, I just was
on my phone. Mine's always the way.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
It's between me and Lance the whole time, and it's
been calling to me. But i've it feels good. When
you see it and you don't touch it is.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Something eff you've nailed it.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
I was on my phone because this is what high
schools are.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
About, right.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Banning it doesn't work because they're going to end up
treat the street, the school teacher will end up getting
a they'll get the burn a fine. But there was
another phone somewhere else, and so they're misusing it. They're
getting rapid hits of it now in the bathrooms when
they get you know, in between breaks and things, they're
getting these rapid hits and and lots of lots of
(34:37):
research out here around. Look, the discipline that we're trying
to teach our children, they're not learning because you don't
learn discipline through discipline. In my day, it was you
got the whack I had. My dad had a great
web belt. He was in the military, and it was
you know, you got that the web. All that did
was make me angrier and more defiant. Push on people,
(34:58):
they push back. Under stand human nature, understand people. And
when you do that, you think, oh, what's the different
way of dealing with this. Then what's the way that
I can put it back on them? And they have
to they will learn from it.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, well, no, I like what you're saying is but
the problem is if you're really tired and you come
home and you just want everything to be okay. You've
had a long day at work, it's been stressful, and
you come home and then something someone's pushing up against
you and they don't do what you want, especially if
they're a cat, and you think a second, you're not
going to come back at me here, and then you
(35:34):
put your foot down and then they put their foot then,
but it's like you're not going anywhere. And that time
sometimes when I find if I'm tired, I don't have
the ability. I just don't have the patience at that
moment to be able to just sit down and go, hey, look,
come on, we I just feel my blood boil right,
And a lot of it is tired for me. Anyway.
A lot of it is just my state of mind
going into the first thing.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Absolutely it is. Or if you get triggered to a
massive degree, right, so down, thing you can when that happens,
I want you to do this right now, breathe out slowly,
as slowly as you can. Just breathe out slowly. Just
keep breathing out. And when you think you breathe out,
just breathe out more, and now you'll be calm. We're
wired to take a deep breath right. See, now you're calm,
(36:15):
You're completely drop down, and now your rational part of
your brain is engaged. When you breathe out, your heart
rate goes down. What we're wired to do is when
we see something that annoys us as to go. And
what that does is get a rush of adrenaline. And
it's cortisol. It's not to your adrenaline, it's cortisol. Cortisol
is glucose into the blood. It's a rush of sugar,
and it keeps you in that heightened state for long
(36:37):
periods of time. Breathing controls your thoughts. You watch us,
We're going to do it. A sigh, right, so I'm
gonna all do it. And those that are listening can
do it with us. I'm going to take a big,
deep breath, fully inflate your lungs, and I'm going to
get you to sigh as hard as you can and
ask your questions. Here we go, big deep breath, then
go sigh as hard as you can. Now quickly think
(36:59):
of something apart from food, was there anything else?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Nothing? Nothing? Nothing?
Speaker 3 (37:07):
And so what that does? So when we are even
when we're talking, when we're engaged, we short breathe. Even
we're excited, we short breathe. And that's short breathing. We're
not getting enough oxygen into our brain. So because the lvoline,
our lungs collapse, we have alvolo. That's how the oxygen
gets into the through lvol line into the blood becomes hemoglobin.
Brain runs on two fields. Oxygen mean the biggest one.
(37:28):
If you don't get enough or if you get too
much oxygen into your brain, it will screw your thoughts over.
So if you sigh, it completely clears your head. When
you side the lvoline, fully reinflate, rush of oxygen into
your brain, fires it up, joins you to the prefront
or cortex and goes what.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Oh yeah, yeah it was a what what? It was
a what what?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, and you just go at that point so yeah, yeah,
well this is the sort of One of the things
I did with the warriors of years ago gone by
was the side they get round in a big hug
and do the sigh, and you do it and then
they get more. They've taken on other breathing techniques now though,
I feel are overbreathing because when you are, because when
you overbreathe, you put too much fuel in the car.
(38:12):
What happens, right, So just do one one's enough and
then from there it's breathing in and out as slowly
as you can without thinking, without counting. Six seconds and
six seconds out is the ultimate timing. But it's just
slowing your breathing slows your heart, which slows your head.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
I mean, you know the other thing that we're told
that if you get angry for any reason, think of
something nice. The brain doesn't work that way because you're
in a completely different part of your brain. It can't.
The Amigdala sparked up and said, where's all the danger
eighty percent of our memories of negative things, Let's go
(38:53):
through that first and see what's there, so it's not
you can't do that. You physically can't until you breathe.
So if you sigh or breathe out very slowly, then
you may be able to control your thoughts. Breathing controls your.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Thoughts unspurredette your books. Anxiety is a worry. Thank you
so much for coming in. It's been absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Fascinating, bloody interesting. Hello, I'm Matt Heath.
Speaker 5 (39:15):
You have been listening to the Matt and Jerry Daily
Bespoke podcast. Right now you can listen to our Radio
Highlights podcast, which you will absolutely get barred up about anyway,
Sit to download, like, subscribe, writer, review all those great things.
It really helps myself and Jerry and to a lesser extent,
Mash and Ruder. If you want to discuss anything raised
in this pod, check out the Conclave, a Matt and
(39:36):
Jerry Facebook discussion group. And while I'm plugging stuff, my
book A Lifeless Punishing Thirteen Ways to Love the Life.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
You've Got is out now get it wherever you get
your books, or just google the bastard. Anyway you seem busy,
I'll let you go. Bless blessed, blessed, give them a
taste of key we from me,
It's goods.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's the second of September in the Year of Our Lord,
twenty twenty four. Welcome Rgie Bespoke you Doc. He's to
the Daily Bespoke podcast today. We've got He's not here
yet because it's their new system where week we start
the pot and people come in and just we just
throw them into the deep end, don't we.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
We've got got bloody Lance. That's right, Lance Yeah. Lance Bird,
former police negotiator Lance Bird.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, and the author of a new book called Anxiety
is a Worry. Yeah, Understanding and Maintaining Anxiety. Also wrote
the book The Dark Side of the Brain, and he
was a police negotiator for many years.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
I've been beavering away some questions or morning actually books,
and so my first question is, and this is one
that I've crafted, what's it like to be a police negotiator?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's not bad? That is not bad? First question, and
I ask him, oh, caf.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
He finishes the interview and walks out.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
How you know how people say that the world is
more anxiety reducing than ever. I call bas on that.
I think it would be pretty anxiety inducing being in
the middle of World War two, don't you And that
would be pretty anxious time with your kids overseas fighting
and wars, or being overseas fighting wars. The year was
(01:57):
at five point thirty six when that Icelandic volcano covered
the whole earth and blocked out the sun for a year.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Stressful times.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
That was stressful, stressful in new crops, and you didn't
know anything about what was happening, and you thought that
it was the end of the world. And suddenly the
sun didn't rise one morning. You're like, well, that's annoying
because we need that. And then the plague kit because
the crops failed and people were unwell, and also the
Roman Empire had broken down one hundred years before that,
so it was just absolutely more rule, genocide and fighting
(02:30):
all the time. But now people say that it's an
anxiety anxious time. Why are people more anxious now than
they were then?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Wasn't that the worst year? They sort of reckon, that's
possibly the worst year ever in recorded history. Yeah, there
would have been a worse year some other time that
we don't know anything about. I mean, those early days
of Earth when there were just volcanoes going off the
whole time, and there was no anything I was thinking
about it.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
We sit in this false sense of security. I mean
Lake Tope war was not created that long ago. I
mean Marcus Aurelius's sun commedis was aware that something weird
had happened.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Was that two thousand years ago them?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, yeah, roughly I think one one hundred and sixty
five or something ad AD. Yeah, So that's in the
terms of geological and the Earth that is like that.
So that means that could happen now.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I mean less volcanoes now than they've ever been.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, it's just that if you compact history, right, so
the volcanoes go off, yeah, but you know, human in
terms of human lives and the amount of lives, and
there was no one in New Zealand at the time.
It feels like they don't go off that often, but
they're still just going off in terms of the great
march of time. So if one went off that long ago,
(03:50):
it could go off tomorrow. And that that I mean
that was written about in China, and it was written
about in Italy that some weird ship was in the
sky and it blocked out the sun and crops were
fucked up, and that was just Tope wore blowing up.
So that could happen. That happened. Now, that would be
the end of our country. How did the fucking excuse me,
how did the fucking kiwis and such survive that? How
(04:14):
did all our fucking fauna?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Maybe it didn't, maybe it had a bit of a changeover, but.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
The more were around when the first Polynesians arrived.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It's true. Well it must have gone in a direction, right.
So when the ash, the plumes and all of that
stuff took off. Have you seen the wind?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Have you seen that big that was? There's a lot
of man so, yeah, I know, but there was. It's
hanging out the back of commotists in Italy.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah. But when it went up right, Okay, so I'm
just imagining this. I wasn't there, but what I imagined?
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Where were you or something?
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Me?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, pray goo? Is therea that?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I think?
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So it went up right because it was a mountain,
Yeah was it? I don't know. It's the opposite of
one now I think. I think it was a mountain.
And so then it just blew the ship out of itself.
But all of the ash and it must have gone
on for quite a long time. It wasn't just a
sort of a day or a week or anything like that.
It must have blown for quite a long time to
blow itself completely. But in that time that that ash
(05:20):
is gone, it's buggering off to Italy. It's buggering off
to the rest of the earth. You know, it's not
just sitting around. I mean, it's kind of work. It's
kind of worse for eventually, it's worse for all right,
I see what you're saying, because it gets blown. It
was like a long, thin place day one average for
New Zealand. Yeah, I imagine ship. Did you see the
(05:42):
lightning storm that was last week in Auckland. There was
one just above my house. The whole house rocked. I
got quite scared. It was, you know, because you tell
how far away it is from the distance between the
flesh and the bank, because of the speed of light
compared to the speed of south and this was.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Like flash oh yeah, right, it was quite fucking full on.
And then all the alarm suit off on the street
like a disaster.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Me.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Hey, something weird happened to me on Caroline Saturday morning.
I was watching Hugo's rugby game and it was absolutely heaving. Now,
like I'm talking to wrenchal heaving the kind of heaving
that only normally lasts five minutes. It lasted forty minutes.
It just kept going, going, going, playing rugby. Yeah, and
then there was lightning and bang right above me, and
(06:30):
I felt I had an.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Umbrella risky and lightning mate or what.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
It was I meant to do? I don't know. It's
going to be lightning.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Better to get wet than get a bloody lightning stroke.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And it felt it go through my through my thing.
So your thing I felt go through my thing. You're
downstairs the stick of my umbrella rod? Did it feel good?
And you think? No? It freaked me out because it
was sitting on my shoulder and that's the but it
gave me a little static like a well, I've got
a question.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
You did Hugo's team adept to the conditions and sort
of shut things down and playing ten men rugby?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
They lost?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Are they fling flying it around like they were.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Too focused on They were two at halftime. When they
came in for the halftime huddle, there was a giant puddle.
I mean, I'm going to say fifty percent of the
field was underwater. Yeah, it was the next level, but
there was a giant puddle and they all ran towards it,
and then did they caught their hands behind their back
and they all dived head first, sliding into the puddle.
See I main, Come on, ye play rugby. You don't
(07:27):
see the all blacks doing that deep. You're there to
play rugby. You know you're twelve.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Come on, I remember being playing in wet conditions and
you would sort of engineer the entire situation so you
could end up just falling into the puddle.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
If you were playing football on this, it would have
been a disaster. They all just would have stopped, would
have just gone into the saw a couple of cases
the puddle.
Speaker 5 (07:46):
And lining up a slide tackle from twenty meters away
so you can do it through the puddle.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Did they still get their oranges? Yeah, they got the oranges. Yep.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
No, they still heat those oranges up and microwave for
thirty seconds to give.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Them the mate. No mate, because it wasn't actually that
cold wheeling. It was not quite warm. But at the
end of it, and this was quite shocking. Can you
get that micro in front? Mate?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Can you keep that a mic right close up to
your mouth?
Speaker 1 (08:12):
You're looking out there? Anything you look at it and
as you've.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Seen about it, fished away from your mouth about fished
away from miss just talk straight into my shoulder, just
the front. Twenty five years broadcasting experience, and you still
haven't worked out that if you start talking over here
because you're looking at the girls walking past, you still
hear something.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
You can still hear something to the front. I actually
missed that to the front. People don't people showy as well?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
I was going to say that, Ellie, isn't your fashion
runway for you to just ogle people what you're supposed
to be doing a podcast?
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Mate, Mate, their eyes aren't below the bottom of their back, okaye,
eyes up here.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
They can see through at us looking at them. I'll
just put that out of there.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I don't suppose you didn't put your neck out of quickly.
You flipped around there, okay, you feel it? Right after
the whiplash.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
As I was saying interrupted.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
To the front, two of the guys on this team
that the chowy of what kind of from dirty water,
puddle water, showy pard water dur the game, they did
a showy and recognition.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
He no, thanks, it's even worse from you what just
turning around and going those thanks there was no offer.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Made mash do not make a video of that. Do
not make a video of that. So anyway they did
it was one of them your sons or not. No,
that's good, that wasn't. But I'm wondering whether i'd like
to check and actually with their dads today and see
what any of them got kept a bactor? Do you if.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
No see traits and young people that suggest how they're
going to pave later on. If I see a kid
doing a bog water showy, I'm like, that guy's going
to be real party. That guy's going to be a
good time at parties.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Hondy p Is it anyone not done a showy here?
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Those will be the two guys that are going to
attake a university, I'd say, yeah, out of that group,
you have done a show.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
I've never done a show man. Have you done a
show that makes sense to me?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Have I done a showy?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, I've done a show. Is it a relatively new thing?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
This show?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
I don't want to Yeah, I think it is pretty new. Yeah,
in the last twenty years. I'd say it's pretty disgusting,
it's pretty grim.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
I don't know if you really want to be doing one,
especially like a football boot a footy booter for a game,
especially worth e Coli.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Water down at Western Springs? Is that what's in the
water down there? Oh? Imnagine it would be. I mean
it's got mud.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
Oh were you playing at Western Springs at the bottom
of the hill.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Oh man, how does the water drain out of there?
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It doesn't. It's basically it's like the lowest point in Auckland.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah, because they were going to have concerts there a
few years ago and they just keep raining and they
can not drain the thing fast enough.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
During those floods, those Anniversary weekend floods, she was underwater
down there. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
We're going to take a break and then we're going
to come back potentially with this Lance burt It, that's.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
One that's main coffee. Welcome, Lance burt It. It's nice
to see you again. Lance, Thanks so much. Great to
be here. Lance. You've got a new book out and
it's called Anxiety Is a Worry.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
You'll go to guide on living well and an increasingly
anxious world, Understanding and managing anxiety. Interesting is that we
were just talking before about this. It's funny how people
are more anxious now, but it's probably not the most
worrying or anxious time in the history of humanity to
live in real terms, if you know what I mean.
Like so, say, for example, being in the middle of
(11:32):
World War two would have been a more arguably anxiety
inducing time, but people weren't necessarily as anxious as they
are now.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Because in those days they had to think, right, these days,
we don't. We just somebody's done a video. Would you
just ask me a question? I went straight to my
phone to google it. Yeah, right, so you don't have
to think you're not joining your prefrontal cortex. Ninety percent
of the brain's effort's done in the background. They call
it system one now, so that's the unconscious and subconscious.
(12:02):
Only ten percent of our day is spent in our
prefrontal cortex. Every fifteen seconds, our brain wanders off and
we don't realize it. Right, So while I'm talking to you,
I've already thought about I've got lunch, to reassure myself
that I've stopped off in the right hair and got lunch.
So the brain has about a fifteen second span of
staying in the moment and then just wanders off.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, and simulates a lot of it as well, doesn't it.
So it's actually, you know, when you actually look out
what you're seeing, a lot of it is just being
made up.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
It's well, that's what anxiety is. Anxiety is fear about
something that hasn't happened and will probably never happen. Yeah,
it's always future based. That's the difference between fear. Fear
is something that is real and you are going to
do something and you can see it. Anxiety isn't it
Basically it's just inside your head.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
And what's the difference between anxiety and worry?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
So worry so worrying. So the definition of anxiety is
worrying thoughts. Right, anxiety is continuously worrying, and it's debilitating.
We all get anxious, we all have anxiety, but true anxiety.
But anxiety is not a thing. There's so many different
types of anxiety. But the general thing we talk about
(13:16):
with anxiety is it's overpowering. Now, most people who have anxiety,
true anxiety, can't even get out of bed. Yeah, and
they're just grateful they woke up in the morning. Wow,
that's pretty it's debilitating.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, it's interesting because was it really originally is obviously
a part of our brain that we needed to make
sure that we were protected against certain things that were
going I mean, it was a lot of animals for example,
wouldn't it be able to experience.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
It's well, yeah, that's we're going to go with that
one hundred places. So animals do have a limbic system,
but not not as advanced as are so all the
worryings done in the limbic system now, dogs, dolphins, and
horses have very advanced. So there's a connection between humans
and those three us because because of that, Yeah, because
because they have advanced the limbic systems from us. Well
(14:08):
could be because because it is a part of the
brain that grows what is the limbic system, So it's
the what they call the emotional brain. So in there
it's the basil ganglia, all these weird terms you've heard of.
It's got the amygdala and our hyper campus and those
are two big ones. So going back to your start
of you know, we're wired. So our brain has one
purpose to keep us alive. That's all it's there for.
(14:30):
The informations just are nice to have, and it runs
on instinct and that's in our stem. Our stem is
hard wiring of the brain, and so it's wired to
get up, go out, get some food, come back, clean
the cave, have a feed, go to sleep.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Just don't die six right, that comes along. So that's
part of the Messlow's basic layer. Yes, that's all good.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
If you can get.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Migler's fight, flight and fornication.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Well yeah, well so that's what happens during COVID. That's
why the COVID baby's right a sense of security by
having sex. In other words, we're procreating, right, which is
we are building the building humanity. We're adding to the population,
of course, so we're wined for that. Now. The brain
is continuously looking for danger to avoid it, and that's
the purpose of the amigdala. So don't go down by
(15:17):
the river. The last time you went down by the river,
a crocodile came out to nearly ate you. So the
brain registers river crocodile, Avoid all rivers or you will die. However,
the brain doesn't register you got away from the crocodile.
So what the brain should be reminding you is a
doubt to that crocodile. Bring on the next one. And
that's what we need to do today because we are
(15:39):
wired to hide.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, because say if you are invited, like in a
very simple way, so you've got social anxiety and you're
invited to a party and you don't go, your brain
goes you didn't go, and you didn't die.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
So not going was safe and success.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
So you get you get a reward of dopamine.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
That was good.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
That was good, we didn't die. So let's just stay
in our room. Now, that's good.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
So understanding neurochemicals and how they work on neurotransmitters, so
we only learn from one dopamins the only neurochemical we
learn from. Now what neuroscience, you know, brain imaging is
finding is that you get a reward by doing those things,
but the brain is wide. Get to the top of
the mountain, I'll reward you right, here's your dopamine. What
(16:26):
we have to do today is start taking on dopamine
more often and regulated amounts and regular amounts. For example,
we now need to get dopamine when we plan to
do the mountain, when we start to organize things, we
get people together, when we start to train and at
little short steps. Right now, what dopamine does, it's like
putting water into clay. It makes water and clay makes
(16:48):
it soft and malleable. Same with the brain. With dopamine,
it's the only chemical we learn from So every time
you do something.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You learn from it.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
That's how we end up with procrastination. That's how we
end up with worry. Now, every time you worry about something,
it never happens, right, it never does. No, it's because
the brain over exaggerates wor catastrophizing. So when it doesn't happen,
your brain wi wards you. With dopamin it says, now
here's the pattern. See something, worry intensely about it, it
(17:18):
won't happen.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Then go, that's that's interesting because I read this book
by doctor Judson Brewer.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And you're anxiety.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what he said. He said, it's
close to addiction.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Well, it is addictive. Anxiety is addictive.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Phones of addicted. I mean how many times we will
sit here with our phone up. I don't I put
it away now on purpose because I have addictive personality. Yeah,
I can see you, I can see it personality.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, yeah, terribly.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I actually I was down in christ Church and I
met someone down in the hotel bar and I left
my phone up in my room extentley, and I just
realized how addicted I was because I was sitting down
there having this string. There was no reason I wasn't
looking for. I didn't need any communication. But the whole
time I'm sitting there, going know my phones in my
room and not here. I know my phones in the room,
not here.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Rings.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, and that's I was fighting the urge to get
in the lift and go up and get my phone.
And then finally I did. He went to the toilet,
this guy, and I went up straight up the lift,
got my phone, came back down and there was two
pointless text messages on there, and I thought, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
You gotta right, And this is this is what's leading
to our young having more anxiety than anyone else. There's
a number of factors involved. Number one, we're born curious,
and we satisfy that curiosity and every way. And now
I'm sitting in front of you talking and you have
a whole selection of Britannica encyclopedias.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It's a lot of a pat That's how we used to.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I used to if I wanted something, I had to
go there and look it up. Old bollocks to that,
I'll just ask somebody, right, we'll go and find out.
I'll go and you know, put that cord on the
wall and see if I get electrocuted. That's how we
learned a little bit dangerous, of course, But today we
learn from just looking and that we're satisfying, oversatisfying our curiosity.
(19:00):
Therefore we're getting over amounts of dopamine and we're disconnecting
and we have now more information in our brain than
ever in history, and so it's making us hyper vigilant.
So I hear people talk about how young oh they're soft.
They are not soft. They are hyper vigilant to risk.
(19:21):
They know because they've seen it in videos. They know
more about stuff. I've heard young kids talk on TikTok
and I'm thinking, you must have been a come back
as as a child, but you're an adult. It's because
they know so much, but they over know and their
brain hasn't developed to get to the capacity of being
able to rationalize what those thoughts are.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
So because you see, like on TikTok and stuff, if
there's any piece of violence anywhere in the world, like
someone coming up and just punching someone, yep, then that
pops up and everyone looks at it. And then so
you're saying that, then the middleagoes that's risky, the world's risky,
and so walking down the street now as a risk
even though we shouldn't even know about that piece of violence.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And so this is the way it works. We end
up with these whole lot of irrational thoughts that we
never previously had. We you know, we're the sum of
the five people we grew up with because in my day,
in particular, we didn't have all of this stuff. In fact,
I remember when we got TV, our first TV. But
when I talk with my generation about you know, a
(20:25):
lot of these young people, I just say, well, hang on,
we got TV. Do you remember when color TV came out?
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, it wasn't that great. Did you go outside and
play silence? I know you didn't. And you we invented
TV TV dinners so we could sit and watch TV
without leaving it because you'd missed something because you couldn't
record it.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
So we've had our addiction. Every generation has their addiction,
and we have to learn how to use it properly.
And you watch what will happens. As soon as we
show people how to you learn to use it, and
the brain will adapt, but we don't adapt by getting
to the top of the mountain as quickly. In other words,
total immersion into this stuff will not work. In fact,
(21:07):
scan the Navy and countries six months ago banned electronics
and primary skills for use. So it must have a
stylust because we're hardwired to write with a pen on
a piece of paper. You know, you give a child
a pen, never seen it before? Where to draw? Leave
it for an hour? Comeback, Where's child drawn? Everywhere? On
the walls and on each other? So we're did humans
(21:27):
first learn to draw on the walls and on each other?
So it's hardwired, right, So that's why journaling and that
sort of stuff is very very good for us. So
coming back to the road and life itself, we have
to be able to take on challenges. Now, it's sixty
to eighty days to change a habit, so that's just
a normal habit. You imagine that that habit is Fear
(21:51):
is something that generally is irrational. It is made up
in your head and will never happen. It's hard for
people to get out of that, so you have to
break it into smaller chunks. Now every time you do that,
and you acknowledge them by ticking them off. And what
that does is regulate the dopamine. And it's a dope.
Meat is a motivator, a human motivator. You know, you
(22:13):
have a list of things you want to tick off,
and you tick them all off and then you get right, well,
I've done a couple of other things. You write those
down and you tack those off as well, And that's
just to get the dopamine. So it's about breaking it
down into small chunks and getting used to the uncomfortableness.
We've got to try and get comfortable in the uncomfortable,
but we don't rush at it. Get thrown off a horse,
(22:35):
they say you should get back on it. Rubbish bollocks,
because if the horse throws you have a second time.
You'll never go to horses and will do anything adventurous.
It's about getting back slowly into these things.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Essentially. I talk to the some neuroscientists at Oxford called
Dr Angela Ryanick. I believe, but I might be talking
about the beer there. But she does cognitive behavioral therapy
just by like if someone she's got to rip the
band age off approach. So what she does is if
someone's claustrophobic. She puts them in a cupboard, a cupboard
(23:11):
for you know, to do it all at once, right, Yeah,
and so that's what she's doing, doing experiments on now.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah good luck.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, Well it's I think clinically it works, but it's
just hard day to day life for people to do it.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, And I think that's well from what the research
that I've been doing recently is when you push things
like that, and you push them to the very end,
you could end up leading them into PDSD, and it
has happened. PDSD is increasingly expert.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I think it's probably a bit different when you're let
in by people and white coats and they go, we're
going to put you in a padded thing were there,
and we're talking to you through rather than you know,
like someone just at home that's scared to go to
a party.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
You know, like you hear grabbed by the hit.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But what do you think about that, like, because I
mean that's an approach that parents have, Like you've got
a kid, and I know lots of people have kids
that are just getting everything in their room. You know,
they're playing game, they're on their phone, they're you know
even finding their sexual activity in their room. And you know,
do you just grab them by the hair and throw
them out into the street.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
No, you don't, really, no, no, no, no. Tough love
in all those programs do not work. It's about that
the child has to learn, and they have to learn
at their pace. Now there's a book being written by
so USA. Can't think of us how to pronounce that,
but he's in the sixth edition Neuroscientific Way of Educating People,
and he talks about all of that's stuff. The way
(24:34):
we learn to change our patterns. That's out. This is
how the brain works. We have a one hundred billions of
billions of neurons in our head.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
They look like oak trees.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
One oak tree joins another oak tree joins another oak tree,
and that forms a pattern, right, and that's a hard
wide pattern. And what they're finding through he's finding through
his work is with teaching, is that must be exciting.
So we must get excited about what we're doing. Very
hard to get excited about getting pulled by the hair
and throw of the party. So he also and then
(25:05):
we go onto the other part of this. What neuroscience
is saying is when we get those release of dopamine
for achieving something small, it joins a new oak tree,
a new a new sign AAPS connection, which is that's
a sign apps connection, so that we've got the sign
apps connections outed. So if you want to break a
pattern of any sort, you just break it into smaller
(25:26):
parts and each time you achieve, you slowly join off
and you take your pathway, your neural pathway, on a
slightly different direction outside, and then you just you build
a new one.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Ah right, yeah, you build.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
A new one to get to the end. And you know,
if you've got like anxieties, that's a general one as
social anxiety disorder. Well, that one is because I have
a fear of going to a party, and what people say,
I don't. I don't go to parties. I believe it
or not. I'm an interview. I just I don't like people.
We don't like being around people. It's really uncomfortable for me.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
And you gave us a nice hug when you arrived.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Well that's just for me for you? What about Lance? Okay?
What about what about I mean, I'm currently in a
situation with teenagers. What about kids? Because it's very very
difficult because I think as parents a lot of us
know that devices are in teenagers hands, left completely to
(26:21):
their own device, with devices that can be massively problematic. However,
for a lot of kids, it's a social connection through
through Snapchat. And if you all of a sudden come
down on your children and say, right, you're not allowed
to communicate with us, or I'm going to monitor this,
and all the other parents are not doing that, then
you can ostracize your children, and then you create a
new anxiety, which is with their friends. How do you
(26:44):
navigate that successfully?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Do you think the problem at the moment was I'll
take a leap here to go to the fact of
banning phones at schools. Right, So New York has just
reversed that ban in schools because of the harm it's causing. Now,
when you look at the research about this, this is
adults reading research that adults have done. The reporting from
(27:12):
children is self reported in those studies, so they are
It's one you've got poor information. Two you've got a
different mind thinking about that data and what you can
do with it. We all base our I guess our
learnings are all based in our past. This is a
new world. People have to sort of understand the I
(27:37):
mean So what neuroscience done is it's fantastic. It's underpin
psychology now and psychologists are going back to relearn about
the brain because some of the things that they got
taught years ago weren't quite right according to the neural
part of what they've said, the way the brain lights up.
So coming back to your point, we all must learn
one thing, and that is discipline, because discipline provides us
(28:00):
with a sense of control. We fear one thing in life,
and that's loss of property, loss of life, loss of dignity,
loss of control. When you take something away, they've lost
control of it, leaving them with the phone and saying
don't touch it. It's the old marshmallow experiment from years
ago too. If you can stop, don't dig that marshmallow.
I'm not going to tee you how long, but if
you wait long enough, I'll give you two. And so
(28:23):
those that waited long enough got too and they got
a double reward. And that's pretty much what we're talking
about here. Children. It's not their time on device, it's
what they're doing on the device. And some people use
it and I've got a close family member who's used
it to support to get out of depression with somebody
(28:46):
else overseas in Australia and another one in America, and
they've all connected together. Now that's what mobile phones are for.
That's what our smartphones are about. You take that away.
That's gone, So we don't we're not asking children what
you're doing. A lot of the researchers just generalizations. It's
not based on proper valid information. And so I've gone
(29:10):
and looked at metadata gone right outside of the scope
of anxiety. And then when I find a topic, I
go even further outside. I want to know more information
about And that's how you sort of end up with
something that I guess is a holistic approach to managing
that you put things back onto the person. So with
your teenager, you just put it back onto them and
(29:32):
say are you able to tell me what you're on,
how long you're doing it for, and why you need it,
and just explore why and say, yeah, what looks is it?
But just know that at the moment, until your brain
fully is adapt fully adapts, it's going to be open
to take you into different places. The way they've set
(29:52):
up all information and as you say, it goes to
this real negative place all the time. You know, the
most dangerous stuff. So what are you doing? When you
see that? You'll be surprised the number of well, you
probably won't be the number of teenagers that go, I
don't watch that stuff. You know, I doom scroll. The
reason I doom scroll on X is just because I
just kind of like the fights, and you know, I
(30:14):
was thinking what and I got there and I'm going,
what are you doing? Lance? Yeah, a sixty six year
old man doom scrolling fighting on X. There's something wrong
with your brain, boy, And I stopped myself and so
I don't do it anymore because it just it's actually
wanted to avoid. But it's about giving them the opportunity
(30:35):
to control their own devices, knowing what the outcome of
it is if they don't.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
So would you go? So would you set challenges where
you say, so you're on there? How do you feel
about that? Because my kids refit to their phones is
brain rot. They're like, oh god, a brain rot, and
that's something that a lot of their friends are calling it.
So I just did some brain roight, that person's that
person's And they kind of judge other people that are
on Tiktote too, match go, They talk about these people,
(31:02):
so you know, they kind of they know, they know
that it's bad, most of them. I mean, my kids
might be lucky in their regard. So do you just
say but I still see them on the phone. Like
I actually got home. I've been away for the weekend,
got home for Father's Day dinner, and I looked around
and both my sons and my girlfriend were on their phones,
sitting on the couch, and I was like, what the
fuck are we doing here? Like, yeah, so do you go?
(31:26):
You know, you don't take the phone right off them?
But would you say you go get off the phone?
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Now?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
No, you wouldn't know. So when's a good time to
get off the phone? Did you say that to them?
When's a good time to get.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Off the phone?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
When's a good time?
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Yeah, when's a good time? Change your language? And they well,
now you're go, oh.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, that's quite good. That's quite good. I quite like that.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
So you don't get off your phone. It's Father's Day
of bloody young, grateful little shits.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I pay for everything around here.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Oh no, you're taking me back.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
This is the weird. So you go, when would be
a good time?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
When it's a good time talk.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Now, who's a.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Good time for you? You know, you come to me
when you've decided it's a good time to not be
on your phone.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Come out on the opposite of that as a period.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Because we're wired in vital flight. So you we're wired
to push to guide, to help, don't help people, help
people help themselves.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Right, So we learn our parenting is get away from
the edge of that cliff, don't You're right?
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Exactly right, we've got to you've got well, you know
you need to go the near the air of the
edge of the cliff, but you do need to know
what the boundaries are, how close to the cliff you
can go.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
This makes so much sense. So you say to them
that and then they go, oh, I'm going to do
the choice of putting my phone down to be part
of the situation. So I've of one that's round rather
than lost, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
So it's always about giving them the sense that it
was my decision. Yeah, So when we when we be
good fust because you could also start with it's great
that we all can come together on Father's Day. Right,
that's a little snarky, sarci. And you walk past and
sit down and turn the TV on. Yeah, but I
(33:06):
prefer the one is. Look, when when's a good time
for us to all chat over dinner?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Paps?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
In other words, And you've also given them a bit
of a guide as to when you're going to put
your phone down and the phones don't go to the table.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah yeah, no, but no need for a phone at
the table.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
But that is interesting. The worst thing you can do
is you're on your phone and then you decide you're
a piece of shit and you put the phone down
and go Jesus Christ. We all spend too much time
on our bloody phone. Everyone get off your phone. They're like,
I've just been copying you.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
But I've got a worse thing. So what I do
is if I'm on my phone, I don't even want
my kids to see me on my phone because I think, well,
if I'm on my phone, then they'll see that. So
what happens sometimes is I'll be in the lounge and
I'll be on my phone, and then I'll hear the
kids coming up the stairs and I'll be like, oh,
quickly put my phone down beside me. But then I
think about that, so I'm really being sneaky.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
So I going to what now you're you're getting probably
a bit of quartisole with that. It's only a bit
of guilt. I just went on my phone because we
were talking about phones, and then involuntarily, I just was
on my phone. Mine's always the way.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
It's between me and Lance the whole time, and it's
been calling to me. But i've it feels good. When
you see it and you don't touch it is.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Something eff you've nailed it.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
I was on my phone because this is what high
schools are.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
About, right.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Banning it doesn't work because they're going to end up
treat the street, the school teacher will end up getting
a they'll get the burn a fine. But there was
another phone somewhere else, and so they're misusing it. They're
getting rapid hits of it now in the bathrooms when
they get you know, in between breaks and things, they're
getting these rapid hits and and lots of lots of
(34:37):
research out here around. Look, the discipline that we're trying
to teach our children, they're not learning because you don't
learn discipline through discipline. In my day, it was you
got the whack I had. My dad had a great
web belt. He was in the military, and it was
you know, you got that the web. All that did
was make me angrier and more defiant. Push on people,
(34:58):
they push back. Under stand human nature, understand people. And
when you do that, you think, oh, what's the different
way of dealing with this. Then what's the way that
I can put it back on them? And they have
to they will learn from it.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, well, no, I like what you're saying is but
the problem is if you're really tired and you come
home and you just want everything to be okay. You've
had a long day at work, it's been stressful, and
you come home and then something someone's pushing up against
you and they don't do what you want, especially if
they're a cat, and you think a second, you're not
going to come back at me here, and then you
(35:34):
put your foot down and then they put their foot then,
but it's like you're not going anywhere. And that time
sometimes when I find if I'm tired, I don't have
the ability. I just don't have the patience at that
moment to be able to just sit down and go, hey, look,
come on, we I just feel my blood boil right,
And a lot of it is tired for me. Anyway.
A lot of it is just my state of mind
going into the first thing.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Absolutely it is. Or if you get triggered to a
massive degree, right, so down, thing you can when that happens,
I want you to do this right now, breathe out slowly,
as slowly as you can. Just breathe out slowly. Just
keep breathing out. And when you think you breathe out,
just breathe out more, and now you'll be calm. We're
wired to take a deep breath right. See, now you're calm,
(36:15):
You're completely drop down, and now your rational part of
your brain is engaged. When you breathe out, your heart
rate goes down. What we're wired to do is when
we see something that annoys us as to go. And
what that does is get a rush of adrenaline. And
it's cortisol. It's not to your adrenaline, it's cortisol. Cortisol
is glucose into the blood. It's a rush of sugar,
and it keeps you in that heightened state for long
(36:37):
periods of time. Breathing controls your thoughts. You watch us,
We're going to do it. A sigh, right, so I'm
gonna all do it. And those that are listening can
do it with us. I'm going to take a big,
deep breath, fully inflate your lungs, and I'm going to
get you to sigh as hard as you can and
ask your questions. Here we go, big deep breath, then
go sigh as hard as you can. Now quickly think
(36:59):
of something apart from food, was there anything else?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Nothing? Nothing? Nothing?
Speaker 3 (37:07):
And so what that does? So when we are even
when we're talking, when we're engaged, we short breathe. Even
we're excited, we short breathe. And that's short breathing. We're
not getting enough oxygen into our brain. So because the lvoline,
our lungs collapse, we have alvolo. That's how the oxygen
gets into the through lvol line into the blood becomes hemoglobin.
Brain runs on two fields. Oxygen mean the biggest one.
(37:28):
If you don't get enough or if you get too
much oxygen into your brain, it will screw your thoughts over.
So if you sigh, it completely clears your head. When
you side the lvoline, fully reinflate, rush of oxygen into
your brain, fires it up, joins you to the prefront
or cortex and goes what.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Oh yeah, yeah it was a what what? It was
a what what?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, and you just go at that point so yeah, yeah,
well this is the sort of One of the things
I did with the warriors of years ago gone by
was the side they get round in a big hug
and do the sigh, and you do it and then
they get more. They've taken on other breathing techniques now though,
I feel are overbreathing because when you are, because when
you overbreathe, you put too much fuel in the car.
(38:12):
What happens, right, So just do one one's enough and
then from there it's breathing in and out as slowly
as you can without thinking, without counting. Six seconds and
six seconds out is the ultimate timing. But it's just
slowing your breathing slows your heart, which slows your head.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
I mean, you know the other thing that we're told
that if you get angry for any reason, think of
something nice. The brain doesn't work that way because you're
in a completely different part of your brain. It can't.
The Amigdala sparked up and said, where's all the danger
eighty percent of our memories of negative things, Let's go
(38:53):
through that first and see what's there, so it's not
you can't do that. You physically can't until you breathe.
So if you sigh or breathe out very slowly, then
you may be able to control your thoughts. Breathing controls your.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Thoughts unspurredette your books. Anxiety is a worry. Thank you
so much for coming in. It's been absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Fascinating, bloody interesting. Hello, I'm Matt Heath.
Speaker 5 (39:15):
You have been listening to the Matt and Jerry Daily
Bespoke podcast. Right now you can listen to our Radio
Highlights podcast, which you will absolutely get barred up about anyway,
Sit to download, like, subscribe, writer, review all those great things.
It really helps myself and Jerry and to a lesser extent,
Mash and Ruder. If you want to discuss anything raised
in this pod, check out the Conclave, a Matt and
(39:36):
Jerry Facebook discussion group. And while I'm plugging stuff, my
book A Lifeless Punishing Thirteen Ways to Love the Life.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
You've Got is out now get it wherever you get
your books, or just google the bastard. Anyway you seem busy,
I'll let you go. Bless blessed, blessed, give them a
taste of key we from me,
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