Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, good morning, and welcome to another edition of Let's
Talk Money on ten WGY. I'm your host this morning,
John Malay, and I'm glad to be with you on
this early September Saturday morning. Boy, what a beautiful day,
What a beautiful weather we've been having here Upstate New York.
Just to me, favorite time of year. Nice cool mornings,
(00:23):
cool evenings, but up in the seventies during the day,
some sunshine, so just a great time to get outside,
do some hiking, enjoy some of the some of the
great weather and scenery that we have in beautiful upstate
New York. I'm a certified public accountant as well as
the firm's chief operating officer, chief financial officer, and a
(00:44):
wealth advisor. I want to thank you for taking time
out of your busy Saturday morning. I know you have
a lot of options with your time. Some of you
may be out mowing the lawn or doing work in
the garage. I appreciate you tuning in. We also have
a lot of clients and we hear that a lot,
so appreciate everyone tuning in. You know, our goal is
to keep you informed of the latest trends of the markets.
(01:07):
Investing trends in personal finance, so you can stay up
to date on matters that mean the most to your
financial life. So appreciate you tuning in this morning. Again,
we encourage listeners to call in with questions. You can
reach me at eight hundred talk WGY. That's eight hundred
eight two five, five nine four nine. You know. This morning,
(01:28):
we'll start off talking about the markets, had a great
week in the markets this week, Also dive into some
of the latest inflation and jobs data, which is going
to have an impact on what we hear next week
from the Fed, so we'll talk about that. Also touch
on some you know, a strategy that's gotten a lot
of play in the last couple of years, Roth conversions.
(01:48):
Also touch on the psychology of money, some of the
reality that impacts us that we don't even think about,
and also any topics you have for questions. So appreciate
you tuning in. You know, as I mentioned just you know,
a great time of year, Summer's although it's still here,
you know, I always consider summer over. Once we hit September.
The change, a little change of pace feels like, uh,
(02:12):
you know, mornings are a little darker now. So again,
hope everybody gets a chance to get out enjoy the
great weather. So start rate off of the market update.
You know, as I mentioned, great week in the market,
a lot of anticipation for next week's FED meeting, and
you know, not only will they reduce rates, I think
(02:33):
at this point strong likelihood that they're going to be
reducing at least twenty five basis points. But you know,
as always with these FED meetings, there's a lot of dialogue.
We see minutes of those meetings, and this this meeting,
we're going to get an updated dot plot. So that's
a you know, an important indicator of where the FED
(02:54):
is looking to go in the next year. And so
not only you know what's what projections are for this year,
but for the next year. So that'll that'll have a
lot of impact on how markets react. So a lot
to look forward to next week. But this week, but
I don't want to move, you know, too fast, and
we have a good week in the markets like this,
all the index is up. NASDAK had another all time
(03:18):
high close, so just solid, solid week, you know, going
to the numbers, the s m P was up one
point six percent for the week. NASDAK up a solid
two percent. You know, tech is certainly uh, you know,
we're heavily focused on and still overweight tech, believe that,
(03:40):
you know, not you know, beyond the AI boom, just
tech where we is where we think earnings are going
to be coming from. Certainly this week was no back
that up for sure, with a NASDAK coming with a
solid two percent. Dow was up even one percent Russell
two thousand, you know, so the small cap index just
about twenty five point two five percent, so up solid,
(04:04):
so across the board, strong strong results in the market,
you know, and driven by you know, many factors. But certainly,
you know, we did get some inflation data in some
mixed data there, and uh, picking individual stocks is really
really hard, and there was a time we all remember,
you know, when Jack Welch was CEO of GE. GE
(04:29):
had some phenomenal results. It's it is hard to pick
any one individual stock. GE certainly went through, you know,
some issues and they're certainly working through that. We'll just say,
in any individual stock, right, you have to be along
for the ride. There's going to be more volatility with
an individual stock than there is going to be with
(04:51):
a basket of stocks like ETFs. That's why we primarily
hold ETFs in our portfolio. And I'm not sure exactly
what our I was talking about there with Ge. I'm
sure he may have heard somebody say sell Ge, and
you know, at any given point in time, that may
have been the thesis. But I'll just say with any
individual stock, right, it is difficult to get that right.
(05:16):
And again that's why we certainly preach diversification, and primarily
diversification through owning a basket of stocks instead of any
one individual stock. And so sometimes you can get it
right and picking na Vidia and hold out of that
and have amazing gains, and sometimes you get it wrong.
And so that that is the challenge, no question, with
(05:38):
individual stocks. So Raymond, appreciate that that call, appreciates you
tuning in with me this morning. So, you know, jumping
back to markets, you know, so as I said, solid
week this past week, all indexes up and the Nasdaq
hitting another all time closed, So great week. So it's
getting into drivers, right. So we did get some mixed
(06:01):
inflation data. We'll talk about that, but I think clearly
showing that inflation, although you know, still a little high,
not anything major there that would upset what the FED
is going to do and so all eyes now on
the FED for next week, and that certainly you know,
is driving you know, some of where the markets are
(06:23):
right now. Expectations are we're going to see some cuts
and the markets I appreciate that. Also we saw tech,
you know, we saw some great news and techs AI
also delivering again this week. So certainly saw you know,
the tech as we as we saw with the Nasdaq
up two percent, you know, the tech is certainly you know,
leading the charge. And what's good is we're seeing diversification.
(06:45):
You remember, you may remember twenty twenty four it was
all about the Magnificent seven. It was a concentration of
performance really among just a few stocks. We are certainly
seeing a much broader, broader recovery of the market gets
the markets right now, so which is just great to see.
So uh, positive week in the markets and a lot
(07:09):
looking at what's ahead, you know, what's ahead next week,
which is going to have certainly a lot of impact
on where markets go from there. And so you know, great,
you know, the prior callers talking about individual stocks, right
so as we look at where markets are right now,
markets are at all time highs really you know, driven
(07:29):
by no question. The AI frenzy has uh certainly pushed
the market, the tech markets higher, but we're you know
what's interesting is, you know you're seeing the performance. It's
not just a hype. You're seeing the spending and AI.
You're seeing results and you know, I'll tell you even
even as a small business, we're evaluating how we can
(07:51):
use AI from an operational efficiency point of view. You know,
we're looking at some of the things that we do
behind the scenes to support our clients and there's a
you know, there's a role for AI to support that.
And you know, not in not in the point of
picking investments. You know, we've got an investment committee made
of five individuals led by Ryan Bouchet, our chief investment officer.
(08:13):
But there's things that we do behind the scene in
terms of you know, supporting our clients, and there's a
role for AI. And we're certainly seeing you know, almost
every every type of company looking at ways to adopt
to get more efficient. And so beyond what you're seeing
with some of the high tech companies, you're seeing everyday company,
(08:36):
small cap, mid cap looking to see how they can
implement AI. So we're we're still firm believers in tech
and believe that's going to be driving market returns for sure.
So you know, as Steve Bouche always says, markets always
go up, always hit a new time high, and we
certainly saw that this week, you know, very positive reaction
(08:57):
in the markets really to you know, the mixed I
mentioned the mixed inflation data. So we we did see
CPI data and pp I again a mix there, and
I'll talk a little bit about that in a minute,
but nothing unusual, nothing that brought into question what is
the Fed gonna you know, is Fed gonna change course?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Because Fed, as we remember, has their dual mandate, which
is keeping inflation within their target which is two percent.
We're still a little bit above that and then also
max employment. So you know, so in addition to the
the CPI and PPI data, you know, we did also
see some more jobs data which continued to show, uh,
(09:39):
labor is softening and what's important is it is softening,
it is not tanking. So that's where we're at right now.
So again, uh looking at what the Fed is going
to be looking at. No major data changes there and
uh so, uh we saw we saw the markets react
very positive to that. So we're going to be taking
a quick commercial break, so please stay tuned and we'll
(10:01):
be right back with Let's Talk Money on eight ten
w g Y. Well, thank you for staying with me
through that quick break. This is John Malay. I am
the firm's chief operating officer, chief financial officer, and a
wealth advisor. I'm a CPA and I'm glad to be
hosting this morning show. Glad you're taking time out of
your busy day to join me. Just went through a segment,
(10:23):
you know, really wrapping up the performance in the markets
and you know, just positive across the board for sure,
and so you know, moving on, you know, we are
seeing in the bond market, right we did see some
move into the treasury, but the four years the ten
year treasury is still hovering right around four percent, so
you know, in historical that's still a good rate. But
(10:46):
we are seeing you know, some movement there for sure.
And before I move on, I'm going to go to
the call. I got a call Rick from Sarahtoga. Rick,
appreciate you tuning in this morning. How can I help you?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Earlier you mentioned roth conversions. You go to get to
you later in the show, but it made me think
about a conversion strategy I'm thinking about. Now you can
take the question now absolutely, Okay, I'm retiring this year
and I do not need to drows Social Security yet,
so my income is going to be kind of low,
(11:19):
and I think a good strategy is to convert up
to the top end of the bracket that you're in,
which for me, I could make it twelve percent, and
for married filing jointly, I think that goes up around
ninety five thousand. I've seen I've gone on some YouTube
videos and seen that described. What they don't describe is
(11:41):
that you also get a standard deduction that's pretty substantial now,
like thirty two thousand d over sixty five plus that
the six thousand bonus, So you actually are still within
that twelve percent bracket quite a bit higher, right, wouldn't
you add the ninety five thousand and plus your standard
deduction and think you could convert still within twelve percent
(12:05):
bracket up to that level?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah? So great question, Rick, there and a lot of
specific data there. So I think I think, as you
look at this, right, you know, I think there are
different approaches and I will get into this a little
bit more detail, but you know, you're you're staying with
the approach of hey, staying in your current tax bracket, right,
and and that's that is that is a common strategy.
(12:33):
And you know, but it's also one to remember, hey,
with our you know, with our tax structure, you know,
even bleeding into the next level, I can still make sense. Right,
So I will say it is a little bit of
an in depth analysis where it's we really look at
your personal situation because you know, if you do go
(12:54):
into that twenty two percent bracket, it's only those additional dollars, right,
So you're not getting tax twenty two percent on everything, right,
So you're you're, you know, your income up to you know,
if you're you know married finally jointly, you know, up
to the first approximately twenty four percent and then twenty
four to ninety six at you know, twelve percent and
(13:14):
above that at twenty two so you know sometimes so
so filling up a bracket, your your current tax bracket
certainly is a strategy in a good one. However, yeah,
I touch them. Yeah, yeah. However, though, looking at hey,
if if it really makes sense to convert more and
(13:35):
it does push you a little bit into the next bracket.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, right, And I think
part of it is it's it's evaluating the complete picture, Right,
is how long are you going to do you think
you're gonna be able to keep that money in the wraw? Right?
Where are rates going from here? I mean that's the
big unknown, right, Like, we know within our current bracket
(13:55):
structure that hey, you're if you don't if you convert,
that you're gonna pay X. If you don't, you're going
to pay why. But what we don't know is we
don't really know what that why is. Because we know
what the current tax structure is. What's the tax structure
going to be in fifteen years, right, is it?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Well, most most likely, if you look at the deficit,
it's going to need to be higher. I think we're
at historical lows and our tax structure right now.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I agree with that. And I'm not bringing the alarm
bell saying we're going to go to ninety percent tax right,
But I do agree that historically, you know, we are
in a low tax environment, and you know, politically nobody
wants their raise rates. But you know the reality is
we got a deficit. Deal with that deficit is just
going to come up bigger and bigger issue. Right. And
(14:45):
so if you said to me a betting man, like
in the next twenty ten, fifteen, twenty years, could could
tax rates be higher, I'm going to say I bet,
I would bet yes, And so therefore I don't I
wouldn't mind going a little bit into that twenty two
percent tax bracket. If again, I'd want to look at
(15:06):
like how much is in the wroth, because because again
what you want to do is get diversification of your buckets, right,
and so you're not all into a pre tax bucket.
You're getting some no tax bucket really, which was your wroth.
So you know, so I would, you know, definitely look
at that. So look at how much you've got in there,
(15:26):
and you know how much you're trying to ultimately move
over to the wrath, and and it may make sense
to go into your next tax bracket.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
On that, Okay, if I can add on to that
a little bit, that all makes sense. But another reason
to convert it's in your state planning when you are
considering passing it down to your errors is if you
get in and inherited pre tax IRA, then your your
errors are going to be text on that, and they're
(15:55):
going to have to continue r mds on that if
you've already started with those. So my thoughts, I want to.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Know, Rick, I'm thinking I should I should have you
as my co host for today's show because you're you're you're.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Talking well, No, I'm just uh, just going over some
some thoughts. I've had no expert like you, but uh,
And I also want to have freedom from the government's
tax structure. I want to know that that's my money.
What whether I want to spend it all today or
in ten years, it's mine. It's not going to be
picked apart by the text system. And also I can
(16:29):
pass it along to my heirs in a text free
uh wroth account versus a traditional.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's that's Rick. You know, you're you're preaching to the choir.
You're exactly right, like you know, and part of what
you know what I'm going to talk about a little
bit later, but this is great to get into it
right now. Is you know this Wroth conversion. The word
has been thrown around like so much that you know,
I'm not sure everybody fully understands, right, you know, what
is it? And why do we do it? But you're
(16:57):
exactly what you're saying is exactly right, like you're you're
gonna The downside is, hey, you're gonna you're taking money
that is in a tax deferred vehicle like a four
to oh one K or IRA, and you're you're now accelerating,
you're paying the tax on it. But what you do,
it's you're converting an unknown into a known. Because if
(17:18):
you retire, just you know, just as you said, if
you retire and I'm just gonna make numbers up with
a five hundred thousand dollars four oh one K and
you roll it over to an IRA, well, how much
of that is your money versus the government's money? You don't.
You don't know, and you won't know because what's gonna
happen is you're right, you know, with that IRA, at
some point, the government's gonna say, hey, you can't keep
(17:40):
it in there. We want our taxes at some point.
So roughly right now, at age seventy three, you're gonna
start taking required minimum distributions rmds, and when you do,
you're gonna pay tax. It's gonna be taxes ordinary income. Right,
and so again we know what the tax rates are
now what are they gonna be in five, ten, fifteen,
twenty years. You don't know. So you're right, Rick, You're
(18:00):
what you're doing is you're taking the known and saying, hey,
this is can I handle this tax bite? And certainly
you know, when we're running numbers, if you have money
outside of your IRA to pay for those taxes, the
numbers look better. I'm not saying it's an absolute because
I've actually done an analysis where it was okay that some
of that converted money was used to pay taxes. We
(18:22):
generally don't like that, but again it's really every unique,
every you know situation has to be analyzed because they
are unique. But you're right, So now you're you're you're
you're paying the taxes, but you know what that is
as opposed to some unknown And again I'm not like
an alarmist. I'm not saying I think you know tax
rates are going to go to ninety five percent, But
(18:43):
the fact is if they go up, right, you're now
going to pay more of that. And as you mentioned,
from an estate planning point of view, you know you
hit the nail there is if you inherit it inherit
an IRA, you have to you know, I now have
to take it over ten years, I have to pay
tax it it becomes ordinary income. And it may be
(19:04):
at the point of my life where I am in
my highest earning. Right, I've inherited this from a family member.
You're gonna pay taxes and could be very high taxes.
You've got very little control over that. You inherit a wroth,
you still have to take it out over ten years, right,
because the government's saying, hey, this wroth vehicle is amazing
because you're the growth is all tax free, right, So
(19:26):
they're going to make you take it out, but you're
not going to pay tax on it. So from an
estate planning point of view, very very powerful vehicle. And
that is one of the reasons. You know, we and
again there is no one size fits all. I've worked
with individuals in their forties and fifties doing wroth conversions.
(19:47):
I've worked with individuals in their late seventies doing roth conversions.
You know, certainly, again there's some general rules of thumb.
Is the longer that's going to be in a row,
So the longer you're going to benefit from the a
tax free growth, is it better? But from a from
an UH in a state planning point of view, there's
a lot of benefits as well. So Rick appreciate that question.
(20:10):
That was, uh, you know, right on spot on with
some of the stuff I'm going to talk about today.
And again, what I love about this show is we
respond to questions you have, and I certainly don't mind
moving that forward and hitting on most of the key
points right there.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Okay, Yeah, you confirmed some thoughts that Dad, So I
appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
All right, Thank you, Rich, appreciate you tuning in. We've
got a caller, Bill from Glenville. Bill, I know you're
on the line. I don't know if you're still on there,
and we're going to be heading into a commercial break shortly,
but I don't know if you're there. If you if
you have a question, we can at lead get the
question out and maybe answer it after the break.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Sure, I actually have I.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Have two questions. Actually I'll go to the first one.
I have quite a holding in Tesla in the last
couple of days, it's about fifty dollars a share. Do
you have any information why it's it's done so well
in the last couple of days?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
You know, so part of Tesla's growth has been you know,
related to the you know, I'm sure you've heard a
lot about the pay package with Elon Musk and I
think that they're uh some exuberance about getting Elon wrapped
up and and and in terms of the individual into
(21:37):
you know, other factors causing Tesla stock that I have
not followed, but I certainly, you know, let me go
to text one of my uh one of our investment
committee guys and just see if he has any feedback
we can provide. But you know, certainly, you know Tesla
certainly as a as a tech stock, certainly responding you know,
(21:58):
to news like that and any you had, you said
you had a two part question. What was the second
part of that?
Speaker 4 (22:06):
The other one is basically going back to your previous caller.
I just turned seventy years old and I have a
significant IRA situation, and so I think about converting to
the rosth Irn. I guess it depends on my income,
but anyway, I had three year window to kind of
drim that down a little bit.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Okay, you know, great, So Rick, I don't can you
stay on through the break? I hate to jor you
were We're going to be heading into a commercial break,
and I don't want to lose you there, so if
you don't mind staying in. So we are halfway through
today's show and we're going to be taking a commercial break.
I want to thank you for tuning with me today.
Hope you are enjoying this show, and we'll rejoin us
(22:50):
after the break. We encourage listeners to call in with questions.
You can reach me at eight hundred talk WGY. That's
eight hundred eight two five five nine four nine. You
were listening to Let's Do You by Booshe Finance Group,
where we help our clients prioritize their health. Well, we well,
(23:10):
thank you for staying with us through that commercial break.
I'm John Malay and I'm your host for this morning show.
I'm a certified public accountant, I'm the firm's chief operating officer,
chief financial officer, and a wealth advisor. Before we headed
to the break, we had Bill from Glenville. Bill, appreciate
you listening, and you know, just wanted to hit on
your first part of your question on the you know
(23:31):
Tesla and we've seen the pop and I know I
mentioned you know one of the primary factors was, you know,
the massive compensation package for Elon Musk, and you know,
really the board showing support for that, and that is showing,
you know, reinforced. I think investor confidence of must long
(23:51):
term leadership. And you know, Musk is such an important
part of that company. I think investors want to make
sure he's committed and tied in for law haul. Also,
they had some new product news I think, which is,
you know, diversifying beyond just the vehicle, so you know,
added strength to their energy business outside of just vehicles,
so on the AI robotics area for sure. So I think,
(24:14):
you know, diversification and tying up uh elon for life hopefully.
And I know, and I apologize that you had a
second part to your question, Bill, and if you don't
mind repeating that, that'd be helpful.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
It's it's basically the same as your previous caller about
uh ROTH. I mean, IRA, I say, I just turned
seventy and I have a significant amount of money in
my IRA. I'm looking for a strategy to try.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
To alleviate the tax.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Implications in the future.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I guess, yeah, that's that's that's a great question, Bill,
And I will say that is uh an issue a
lot of people are facing, right is if you know,
if you didn't have a pension plan, which most employers
don't have pension plans. You know, we were You're you're investing,
(25:11):
uh in getting tax breaks by participating in a four
oh one K or four to three B, right, so
you're putting money in a tax deferred basis. And you know,
we're working and putting money into our four oh one K,
maxing out or putting as much as we can in
maximizing the match, and then all of a sudden, we've
got this huge pre tax balance that we now are
(25:32):
retiring with and part of that money is ours, but
part of it's a tax liability. And uh so that
that is a challenge that a lot of either current
retirees you know who are just retired or folks a
few years away are faced with because you know, with
the IRA, you have a required minimum distribution that you
(25:56):
have to take and even if you don't need that money,
you have to take it. And if you've got a
large balance, that could be a significant, significant amount that
you're required to take as an r m D. And
so so I will say, you know, it is it
is not. You know, in the situation you're in, it's
not too late to look at doing Wroth conversions. And
(26:20):
typically you know what the the way you know, the
process we go through is, you know, we it's really
some tax planning. So we start looking at the tax return,
understanding what brackets you're in, also understanding from an URMA right,
so from a Medicare premium perspective, what your brackets are
where you are, because that can affect your income also, right,
can affect your Medicare premiums. So uh, and part of
(26:44):
is understanding what your goals. Right, is this money that
you you is there a part of that you're never
gonna need? Right? And and that may or may not
be the case. Right, So you're saying, hey, it's got
not only my lifetime as a horizon, but I'm gonna
then it's gonna go to my kids or weather airs
and it can also then grow tax free for another time.
(27:07):
Horizon is something to look at. And so typically you know,
we look at you know is the previous caller we
do look at there's a strategy of looking at what
tax bracket you're in and trying to say, okay, how
much you know, do we do a multi year plan
where we're taking out enough that keeps you in your
current bracket. Uh in taking that as a roth conversion.
(27:30):
You know, as you know, as you the amount that
you take as a conversion, you're now paying ordinary income
tax on that, right, So we're planning that do you
have cash aside to pay for that? You know, if not,
we need to factor that in. So I think, you know,
it's it's sitting down and I would say, you know,
this is a big part of what we do as advice,
(27:50):
you know, as a financial advisor and as a fiduciary,
and I would say, if you're not working with someone,
I would recommend you know, you work with someone, because
it is I will say, you know, Steve Bousche always
says his clients first come to us, or a lot
of times come to us for investment management. Right, they
want to take the emotion out of investing, and they
need help. But our our financial planning and tax planning
(28:13):
has become such a huge component that for the very
reason we're talking about is planning how I'm going to
take distributions, How am I going to work about the
required minimum distributions. So it's going through a planning exercise
to determine do we do this over a number of years,
how much do we convert? So it is an individualized analysis.
(28:34):
It's not something that's, hey, it's do the same approach
for everybody. But I will say this, you know, I
think your bill, your your right to be thinking about it,
and I would I would certainly work with a professional
to lay that out, do some analysis because the tax
savings can be significant. And you know what is you know,
(28:54):
it's just talking with you Rick about who knows where
tax rates are going and that that's you know, that's
you know, that's part of the unknown in the analysis.
But if you if you are the belief that tax
rates are going to go up over the next twenty years,
you know, it could be a great time to do
a conversion. And it's also you know, as we talk
(29:17):
about you know when to do a Wroth conversion, right
because you know, sometimes we hold off if we're at
market highs. We wait for the markets to dip. Because
I'm just going to use a very simplistic example. Let's
say that you had an IRA that was all in
one stock, and let's say let's say it was Tesla stock,
(29:38):
and that Tesla stock is near all time highs. Well,
we might say, is, let's wait for a pullback, right,
because if what's going to happen is if the stock
pulls back twenty percent, right, you're now going to be
taxed at that lower amount if you if you do
the conversion when when markets that are all time high. Right,
(29:58):
let's say you do the convert version, that's you've just
locked in the amount that you're going to be realizing
its ordinary income. Right. So sometimes we wait for hey,
let's so sometimes we might work with a client say hey,
this is the year we want to do a Roth conversion,
but hey, maybe now isn't the right time. So we
have clients who are just waiting for a market pullback
(30:20):
and then we're going to execute that conversion. Right. So
in the example we just talked about, Tesla goes down
twenty percent, we say, okay, let's do the conversion. Now
you've just reduced your tax bill, right because now instead
of being you know, tax that ordinary income at that
higher amount, if the stock has gone down twenty percent,
that's going to reduce the amount that you're going to
(30:41):
be taxed on. Does that does that make sense? Okay,
I think we've lost lost bill there. So that was
a great question. And you know interesting, you know I
identified as a as a topic for today and certainly, uh,
(31:04):
based on the two callers I got already, certainly it's
a topic that's that's pretty timely. So you know, when
I think about this, this segment of other things I was
gonna talk about, you know, so we really talked about
you know, what is and I want to demystify those
just to make sure you know, individuals know. So all
(31:25):
it is is if you've got money in a traditional
IRA or four one k, right, so you put money
into that, and you've got a tax break when you
put money in So when you convert it to a
wroth that let's just say you're converting one hundred dollars
and you take you say, I've got it in a
IRA right now, traditional ira, and I'm going to convert
(31:46):
it to a wroth. The year you do that conversion,
that one hundred dollars gets added to you as ordinary income.
So you now pay tax on that. And you might say, well,
why would I do that. We've kind of covered why,
you know, because now now you know what that tax is,
you've reduced an unknown But the important part is now
that it's in the wroth, that money can grow, right,
(32:09):
So we'll use that example of test. Let's say you
had one hundred dollars in there, and now over the
next twenty years that grew to one hundred thousand. You
can pull that one hundred thousand out. You pay no
tax on any of that, So you've turned it from
an IRA, which is a taxable bucket. Right, if you
retire and you pull money out of that in retirement,
you're going to pay tax every dollar you pull out,
(32:32):
you're going to pay tax on as ordinary income. In
the wroth, you need to pull money out, you don't
pay any tax on it. And I will say the wroth,
you know, So sometimes retiree is like, Wow, I've got
some money in my wroth. Let's start pulling from that first.
We like to keep the wroth is the last bucket
you're going to touch. And for a couple reasons, you know,
One is you want it to grow. You want that
(32:54):
growth to be as tax free as long as possible.
And secondly, as we've discussed with another call, if you
pass away your heirs who get that wroth, you've just
given them a gift. You've given them tax free money,
so they inherit that WROTH, they still have to draw
it down over ten years, right, because the IRS is saying, hey,
(33:15):
we're not going to let you grow this tax free forever. Right,
So if I inherit it from my family member, I
still have to draw it down, but I'm not paying
tax on that money coming out, and so very powerful vehicle.
I will say, there's a WROTH component. More four oh
one K or four to three B plans have a
(33:36):
WROTH component. So I will say, if you're still working,
right and talk to your employer, make sure you understand
if you've got a WROTH component, it's a if. So
I would highly recommend evaluating, you know, putting money into
the WROTH versus the traditional Now, when you do it,
you're not going to get the tax break up front,
but you're starting to build that tax free bucket. So
(33:59):
a great planning strategy, you know. And you know, one
of the last things that is a little confusing with
ROTH is there's there's these five year rules, and you know,
there's actually two five year rules, but one of them
relates to conversions and really is and it's really meant
to prevent people from skirting around the ten percent penalty
(34:23):
on early withdrawals on iras. Right. So if you have
a traditional IRA and you're fifty years old, right, so
you're not fifty nine and a half, and you want
to take one hundred thousand dollars out right, you're going
to be penalized, right because you're is considered an early
with draws, So you're gonna pay a ten percent penalty
on that money in addition to being tax on it. Right.
(34:47):
And so with a wroth conversion, what happens is every
conversion you do starts another five year ticker, a clock
that's ticking. So again, let's say you're forty years old,
you do that wroth conversion. Now you're paying the tax,
right because you're you're paying the tax, but you're not
paying any ten percent penalty, right because you really have.
(35:11):
All you've done is converted that money to a wroth.
So but the IRS is, well, we'll allow that, but
if you try to take some of that principle before
five years are up from the conversion date, you're gonna
get hit with that ten percent penalty, right, because they
wouldn't want you to kind of circumvent that ten percent
penalty on iras by you do a wroth and then
(35:32):
two years later you take out the principle. Effectively, what
you've done is taken out the principle of your IRA.
You've paid tax, right, you paid the ordinary tax, but
you didn't pay the penalty. So they're not gonna let
you do that. So there's a five year ticker on that.
You know, new clock that starts, and it's a clock
that restarts with every conversion that you do. But I
(35:52):
get I will say, just wrap up wroth conversions. I
know you've heard a lot. It's it's, it's it's. Every
news publication has had a number of wroth articles this year.
Hopefully that did a little bit to demystify it and
with some help from some of the callers there. But
I would say it's a strategy that's definitely worth looking at.
(36:13):
But it's not a cookie cutter, it really is. You
have to valuate your own personal circumstances. But definitely, I
will say, not one of these situations where you have
to be a certain age, you have to do this,
you have to do that. I've had it. I've executed
successfully wroth conversions number of different circumstances. So certainly, work
(36:34):
with someone to help evaluate it. We're going to take
a quick commercial break, so please stay tuned and we'll
be right back with Let's Talk Money on eight ten.
WGY Well, thank you for staying with me through that
quick little break. I appreciate you tuning in this morning.
It has certainly been a big Wroth conversion conversation, which
(36:56):
is I think an important topic, so good to talk
about that. I want to switch gears for a second,
and you know, really talk about the psychology of money,
and you know, a lot of you know, I'm a
career finance professional, spend a lot of time in spreadsheets
and analyzing data, and this is really you know, stepping
(37:17):
away from that, right, It's really about the psychology and
how are how are wired impacts us? And uh, you know,
it can be almost more important than some of the
you know, pure you know, investment decisions about picking the
right stock or the wrong stock. You know, it's really
(37:38):
about how we think, how we feel and behave with
money often matters more. You can have two people making
the same amount of money investing in the same market
and end up with very very different financial places, and
it's simply because the decisions they make in the motions
behind those decisions along the way, and you know, part
(37:59):
of it, this is a big part of why clients
choose to work with an advisor. One of our key
roles is really is to take the emotion away from investing, right,
and because it can be hard emotionally, it can be hard,
especially as there is market volatility, and so you know,
the first point really is to really recognize money is emotional.
(38:23):
It's not just rational. It's not just you know, decisions
being generated by a computer. You know, these are emotional decisions.
And you know, so things like when the markets fall,
you know, fear takes over and we have some investors panic, right,
I've got to sell, I've got to get out of
the market, you know. And when we had you know,
(38:43):
some of the volatility this year, right, we had markets down,
you know, heading into April, and you know, we have
a lot of conversations with our clients, so we didn't
have clients panic. Now I'm not going to say we didn't.
I didn't have you know, some tough conversations. But you know,
if somebody panicked and got out of the market, guess what.
The markets have recovered over twenty five percent since April.
(39:05):
They would have missed all that recovery because exiting is
one thing deciding when to get back in. So some
of the the reality of the emotion is fear takes
over when markets go down. Same thing when when markets rise, right,
you know, greed can take over. We're humans and these
emotions are real. You know, we've seen people chasing the
hot stock or jumping into something, you know, after really
(39:28):
with fear of missing out right, And we're seeing a
little bit about that with some crypto. And you know
how many times have you heard somebody I read all
this money in crypto and it's like, well, I've got
to do it. I've got to get into it. And
it may make sense for you, may not, but you
want to move, you know, you want to you know,
you want to make that investment on a rational approach
and it's just not an emotional knee jerk reaction. And
(39:51):
you know, there's a reality to loss a version, right
behavioral finance. You know, we we and the idea is
that you know, we feel the pain losses about us
twice as strong as we feel the joy of gains, right,
So a lot of times, you know, we want to,
you know, make decisions that avoid pain, avoid those losses.
(40:12):
And that's not always the right decisions. So and we've
seen listen, I don't care how smart you are, I've
seen extremely intelligent people make poor financial choices. And because
those decisions, that psychology is tied into our sense of security,
(40:34):
our status, and sometimes our identity. Right, So it's real,
it happens. You know. The other thing from a psychology
point of view is like the power of habits matter, right,
And largely financial outcomes are shaped by habits and small
decisions over time. And I think you know what we've
seen there is you know, individuals who save regularly, even
(40:57):
small amounts, build wealth, right. And this gets to the
adage we talk about. You know, it's about time in
the market, not about timing in the market, right, being
in the market for a long time, being consistent, putting
money in consistently right. And that's I will tell you.
I've seen individuals who you look at their income their
(41:17):
W two and you think they should have a massive
investment account and they don't. And then you look at
somebody else who's got a modest income. But guess what
for thirty years, you know they were putting money aside.
Maybe in the beginning was a very small dollar amount
because that's all they could afford. But guess what, they
flexed their muscle. They created those habits of saving right,
(41:39):
and they built that consistency and over time maybe they
were able to increase it a little bit. But the
power of compounding is real, and so building that habit,
getting that going consistently. And I will say this, it
is never too late. It is never too late. I
have individuals who are close, you know, maybe they're in
(42:02):
their late fifties, and they're like, I should have started
this a long time ago, and there's some embarrassment, and
it's like, you know, we're humans. You had things going
on with your life. You can't beat yourself up. And
so it's never too late. Start do something. Don't just
put your head in the sand, you know, Start building
that habit, getting those contributions. So seeing investors save regularly again,
(42:26):
getting that consistency going even with small amounts, keeping a
budget right at least in you know, some people are
you know, have detailed budgets tracking every expense. But I
think the main thing is being mindful of your cash
flow right and automate your contributions. Set up things where
you're automatically putting money into accounts. So it just happens.
Because really, the psychology of consistency, and that's whether it's
(42:49):
eating or exercising, is real. We have a caller, Mike
on the line from Latham. Mike, appreciate you tuning in
this morning and what can I do for it? Mike? Oh, sorry,
we had Mike dropped the call, So Mike appreciate you
trying to call in, but uh uh, I will say, Mike,
tune in tomorrow. My colleague Martin Shields will be hosting
(43:12):
tomorrow's show at Bright and early eight am. So if
you still have that question, and I could see that
you're probably driving if you lost coverage, call into Marty
tomorrow and I'm sure he'll be able to handle your question. So,
you know, just getting back to the psychology, and this
is not meant to be appreciated. It's really meant to
be helpful, right, is that building those habits? And from
(43:34):
a psychology point of view, there are common biases that
just that creep into money management, and you know, part
of it is a recency bias. You know, sometimes we
assumed whatever just happened is going to keep happening, and
that could be whether it's an up market or down market.
You know, it's it's letting that play too big of
(43:56):
a role, thinking that that's going to continue. It's also
common information bias, Right, you're seeking out opinions that really
agree with what you what you're thinking, and ignoring the
others that might be opposite. Right, So you're only getting
you're not getting a balanced view, You're kind of getting
a really a siloed view that's really meant to confirm
what you're thinking. Uh. And sometimes over confidence I will say, Uh,
(44:21):
you know, sometimes in a in an up market, people
are picking individual stocks and they're like, wow, I picked
I picked Tesla, I picked Navidia, and look they're going great,
and all of a sudden they get a little over
confident and think, wow, I'm really good at this. And
then they start to say, well, I'm not going to
invest in baskets and stocks like ETFs. I'm gonna go
(44:42):
and I'm just gonna pick individual stocks. I'm gonna be
an individual stock picker. And that that overconfidence generally does
not end well because in reality, you know, markets humble
almost everyone. You know, it is, as I mentioned, it
is so hard to consistently pick individual stocks. I mean historically,
(45:03):
you know, two percent of individual stocks drive market returns.
The rest lag behind. And so if you're not picking
those right individual stocks, you're lagging behind. And you know
that's one of the primary reasons. You know, in our portfolio,
we do have a couple of individual stocks, Apple and Amazon,
but primarily we are diversified through ETF holdings because we
(45:24):
know our hard it's very hard to pick individual stocks,
and so, you know, some practical takeaways for this, it's
just understanding, Hey, emotion is real in investing in money,
and so start to build an emergency fund, and that
is can be you know, just by starting small small deposits.
(45:48):
Build that up right, automate your savings and investments, set
those up so that are on autopilot. Have money automatically
taken out of your your checking account or savings account
moved over to a brokerage account, right automated, so you
don't have to make decisions on whether to do that
or not. That automation just gives you that consistency. You know,
(46:11):
check in with your goals, like there's the market headlines
are can be overwhelming at times, right, So just really
go back to your goals. You know, if markets are declining,
we're seeing a dip. Look at your goals, right, Do
I need money out of the portfolio? Am I? Okay?
Speaker 4 (46:29):
There?
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Right? And I will say, you know, limit your news exposure.
I know it can be difficult, but just there's so
much fear in greed media out there and talk about
money right, share have communications. So we are coming to
the end of the show. I want to thank you
for tuning with me today. I hope you enjoyed the show.
(46:50):
I know that I certainly did. I hope you enjoy
the rest of this beautiful weekend and have an amazing
week ahead. Be sure to tune in next week for
another great show. Sure to tune in tomorrow at eight
am for Marty. You have been listening to Let's Talk Money,
brought to you by Bouchet Financial Group, where we help
our clients prioritize their health while we manage their wealth
(47:14):
for life. Again, thank you for tuning in, appreciate you.
Hope you enjoyed the show, and again, Marty Shields will
be hosting tomorrow's show eight am. Have a great weekend.
Thank you,
Well, good morning, and welcome to another edition of Let's
Talk Money on ten WGY. I'm your host this morning,
John Malay, and I'm glad to be with you on
this early September Saturday morning. Boy, what a beautiful day,
What a beautiful weather we've been having here Upstate New York.
Just to me, favorite time of year. Nice cool mornings,
(00:23):
cool evenings, but up in the seventies during the day,
some sunshine, so just a great time to get outside,
do some hiking, enjoy some of the some of the
great weather and scenery that we have in beautiful upstate
New York. I'm a certified public accountant as well as
the firm's chief operating officer, chief financial officer, and a
(00:44):
wealth advisor. I want to thank you for taking time
out of your busy Saturday morning. I know you have
a lot of options with your time. Some of you
may be out mowing the lawn or doing work in
the garage. I appreciate you tuning in. We also have
a lot of clients and we hear that a lot,
so appreciate everyone tuning in. You know, our goal is
to keep you informed of the latest trends of the markets.
(01:07):
Investing trends in personal finance, so you can stay up
to date on matters that mean the most to your
financial life. So appreciate you tuning in this morning. Again,
we encourage listeners to call in with questions. You can
reach me at eight hundred talk WGY. That's eight hundred
eight two five, five nine four nine. You know. This morning,
(01:28):
we'll start off talking about the markets, had a great
week in the markets this week, Also dive into some
of the latest inflation and jobs data, which is going
to have an impact on what we hear next week
from the Fed, so we'll talk about that. Also touch
on some you know, a strategy that's gotten a lot
of play in the last couple of years, Roth conversions.
(01:48):
Also touch on the psychology of money, some of the
reality that impacts us that we don't even think about,
and also any topics you have for questions. So appreciate
you tuning in. You know, as I mentioned just you know,
a great time of year, Summer's although it's still here,
you know, I always consider summer over. Once we hit September.
The change, a little change of pace feels like, uh,
(02:12):
you know, mornings are a little darker now. So again,
hope everybody gets a chance to get out enjoy the
great weather. So start rate off of the market update.
You know, as I mentioned, great week in the market,
a lot of anticipation for next week's FED meeting, and
you know, not only will they reduce rates, I think
(02:33):
at this point strong likelihood that they're going to be
reducing at least twenty five basis points. But you know,
as always with these FED meetings, there's a lot of dialogue.
We see minutes of those meetings, and this this meeting,
we're going to get an updated dot plot. So that's
a you know, an important indicator of where the FED
(02:54):
is looking to go in the next year. And so
not only you know what's what projections are for this year,
but for the next year. So that'll that'll have a
lot of impact on how markets react. So a lot
to look forward to next week. But this week, but
I don't want to move, you know, too fast, and
we have a good week in the markets like this,
all the index is up. NASDAK had another all time
(03:18):
high close, so just solid, solid week, you know, going
to the numbers, the s m P was up one
point six percent for the week. NASDAK up a solid
two percent. You know, tech is certainly uh, you know,
we're heavily focused on and still overweight tech, believe that,
(03:40):
you know, not you know, beyond the AI boom, just
tech where we is where we think earnings are going
to be coming from. Certainly this week was no back
that up for sure, with a NASDAK coming with a
solid two percent. Dow was up even one percent Russell
two thousand, you know, so the small cap index just
about twenty five point two five percent, so up solid,
(04:04):
so across the board, strong strong results in the market,
you know, and driven by you know, many factors. But certainly,
you know, we did get some inflation data in some
mixed data there, and uh, picking individual stocks is really
really hard, and there was a time we all remember,
you know, when Jack Welch was CEO of GE. GE
(04:29):
had some phenomenal results. It's it is hard to pick
any one individual stock. GE certainly went through, you know,
some issues and they're certainly working through that. We'll just say,
in any individual stock, right, you have to be along
for the ride. There's going to be more volatility with
an individual stock than there is going to be with
(04:51):
a basket of stocks like ETFs. That's why we primarily
hold ETFs in our portfolio. And I'm not sure exactly
what our I was talking about there with Ge. I'm
sure he may have heard somebody say sell Ge, and
you know, at any given point in time, that may
have been the thesis. But I'll just say with any
individual stock, right, it is difficult to get that right.
(05:16):
And again that's why we certainly preach diversification, and primarily
diversification through owning a basket of stocks instead of any
one individual stock. And so sometimes you can get it
right and picking na Vidia and hold out of that
and have amazing gains, and sometimes you get it wrong.
And so that that is the challenge, no question, with
(05:38):
individual stocks. So Raymond, appreciate that that call, appreciates you
tuning in with me this morning. So, you know, jumping
back to markets, you know, so as I said, solid
week this past week, all indexes up and the Nasdaq
hitting another all time closed, So great week. So it's
getting into drivers, right. So we did get some mixed
(06:01):
inflation data. We'll talk about that, but I think clearly
showing that inflation, although you know, still a little high,
not anything major there that would upset what the FED
is going to do and so all eyes now on
the FED for next week, and that certainly you know,
is driving you know, some of where the markets are
(06:23):
right now. Expectations are we're going to see some cuts
and the markets I appreciate that. Also we saw tech,
you know, we saw some great news and techs AI
also delivering again this week. So certainly saw you know,
the tech as we as we saw with the Nasdaq
up two percent, you know, the tech is certainly you know,
leading the charge. And what's good is we're seeing diversification.
(06:45):
You remember, you may remember twenty twenty four it was
all about the Magnificent seven. It was a concentration of
performance really among just a few stocks. We are certainly
seeing a much broader, broader recovery of the market gets
the markets right now, so which is just great to see.
So uh, positive week in the markets and a lot
(07:09):
looking at what's ahead, you know, what's ahead next week,
which is going to have certainly a lot of impact
on where markets go from there. And so you know, great,
you know, the prior callers talking about individual stocks, right
so as we look at where markets are right now,
markets are at all time highs really you know, driven
(07:29):
by no question. The AI frenzy has uh certainly pushed
the market, the tech markets higher, but we're you know
what's interesting is, you know you're seeing the performance. It's
not just a hype. You're seeing the spending and AI.
You're seeing results and you know, I'll tell you even
even as a small business, we're evaluating how we can
(07:51):
use AI from an operational efficiency point of view. You know,
we're looking at some of the things that we do
behind the scenes to support our clients and there's a
you know, there's a role for AI to support that.
And you know, not in not in the point of
picking investments. You know, we've got an investment committee made
of five individuals led by Ryan Bouchet, our chief investment officer.
(08:13):
But there's things that we do behind the scene in
terms of you know, supporting our clients, and there's a
role for AI. And we're certainly seeing you know, almost
every every type of company looking at ways to adopt
to get more efficient. And so beyond what you're seeing
with some of the high tech companies, you're seeing everyday company,
(08:36):
small cap, mid cap looking to see how they can
implement AI. So we're we're still firm believers in tech
and believe that's going to be driving market returns for sure.
So you know, as Steve Bouche always says, markets always
go up, always hit a new time high, and we
certainly saw that this week, you know, very positive reaction
(08:57):
in the markets really to you know, the mixed I
mentioned the mixed inflation data. So we we did see
CPI data and pp I again a mix there, and
I'll talk a little bit about that in a minute,
but nothing unusual, nothing that brought into question what is
the Fed gonna you know, is Fed gonna change course?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Because Fed, as we remember, has their dual mandate, which
is keeping inflation within their target which is two percent.
We're still a little bit above that and then also
max employment. So you know, so in addition to the
the CPI and PPI data, you know, we did also
see some more jobs data which continued to show, uh,
(09:39):
labor is softening and what's important is it is softening,
it is not tanking. So that's where we're at right now.
So again, uh looking at what the Fed is going
to be looking at. No major data changes there and
uh so, uh we saw we saw the markets react
very positive to that. So we're going to be taking
a quick commercial break, so please stay tuned and we'll
(10:01):
be right back with Let's Talk Money on eight ten
w g Y. Well, thank you for staying with me
through that quick break. This is John Malay. I am
the firm's chief operating officer, chief financial officer, and a
wealth advisor. I'm a CPA and I'm glad to be
hosting this morning show. Glad you're taking time out of
your busy day to join me. Just went through a segment,
(10:23):
you know, really wrapping up the performance in the markets
and you know, just positive across the board for sure,
and so you know, moving on, you know, we are
seeing in the bond market, right we did see some
move into the treasury, but the four years the ten
year treasury is still hovering right around four percent, so
you know, in historical that's still a good rate. But
(10:46):
we are seeing you know, some movement there for sure.
And before I move on, I'm going to go to
the call. I got a call Rick from Sarahtoga. Rick,
appreciate you tuning in this morning. How can I help you?
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Earlier you mentioned roth conversions. You go to get to
you later in the show, but it made me think
about a conversion strategy I'm thinking about. Now you can
take the question now absolutely, Okay, I'm retiring this year
and I do not need to drows Social Security yet,
so my income is going to be kind of low,
(11:19):
and I think a good strategy is to convert up
to the top end of the bracket that you're in,
which for me, I could make it twelve percent, and
for married filing jointly, I think that goes up around
ninety five thousand. I've seen I've gone on some YouTube
videos and seen that described. What they don't describe is
(11:41):
that you also get a standard deduction that's pretty substantial now,
like thirty two thousand d over sixty five plus that
the six thousand bonus, So you actually are still within
that twelve percent bracket quite a bit higher, right, wouldn't
you add the ninety five thousand and plus your standard
deduction and think you could convert still within twelve percent
(12:05):
bracket up to that level?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah? So great question, Rick, there and a lot of
specific data there. So I think I think, as you
look at this, right, you know, I think there are
different approaches and I will get into this a little
bit more detail, but you know, you're you're staying with
the approach of hey, staying in your current tax bracket, right,
and and that's that is that is a common strategy.
(12:33):
And you know, but it's also one to remember, hey,
with our you know, with our tax structure, you know,
even bleeding into the next level, I can still make sense. Right,
So I will say it is a little bit of
an in depth analysis where it's we really look at
your personal situation because you know, if you do go
(12:54):
into that twenty two percent bracket, it's only those additional dollars, right,
So you're not getting tax twenty two percent on everything, right,
So you're you're, you know, your income up to you know,
if you're you know married finally jointly, you know, up
to the first approximately twenty four percent and then twenty
four to ninety six at you know, twelve percent and
(13:14):
above that at twenty two so you know sometimes so
so filling up a bracket, your your current tax bracket
certainly is a strategy in a good one. However, yeah,
I touch them. Yeah, yeah. However, though, looking at hey,
if if it really makes sense to convert more and
(13:35):
it does push you a little bit into the next bracket.
That's not necessarily a bad thing, right, And I think
part of it is it's it's evaluating the complete picture, Right,
is how long are you going to do you think
you're gonna be able to keep that money in the wraw? Right?
Where are rates going from here? I mean that's the
big unknown, right, Like, we know within our current bracket
(13:55):
structure that hey, you're if you don't if you convert,
that you're gonna pay X. If you don't, you're going
to pay why. But what we don't know is we
don't really know what that why is. Because we know
what the current tax structure is. What's the tax structure
going to be in fifteen years, right, is it?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Well, most most likely, if you look at the deficit,
it's going to need to be higher. I think we're
at historical lows and our tax structure right now.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I agree with that. And I'm not bringing the alarm
bell saying we're going to go to ninety percent tax right,
But I do agree that historically, you know, we are
in a low tax environment, and you know, politically nobody
wants their raise rates. But you know the reality is
we got a deficit. Deal with that deficit is just
going to come up bigger and bigger issue. Right. And
(14:45):
so if you said to me a betting man, like
in the next twenty ten, fifteen, twenty years, could could
tax rates be higher, I'm going to say I bet,
I would bet yes, And so therefore I don't I
wouldn't mind going a little bit into that twenty two
percent tax bracket. If again, I'd want to look at
(15:06):
like how much is in the wroth, because because again
what you want to do is get diversification of your buckets, right,
and so you're not all into a pre tax bucket.
You're getting some no tax bucket really, which was your wroth.
So you know, so I would, you know, definitely look
at that. So look at how much you've got in there,
(15:26):
and you know how much you're trying to ultimately move
over to the wrath, and and it may make sense
to go into your next tax bracket.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
On that, Okay, if I can add on to that
a little bit, that all makes sense. But another reason
to convert it's in your state planning when you are
considering passing it down to your errors is if you
get in and inherited pre tax IRA, then your your
errors are going to be text on that, and they're
(15:55):
going to have to continue r mds on that if
you've already started with those. So my thoughts, I want to.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Know, Rick, I'm thinking I should I should have you
as my co host for today's show because you're you're you're.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Talking well, No, I'm just uh, just going over some
some thoughts. I've had no expert like you, but uh,
And I also want to have freedom from the government's
tax structure. I want to know that that's my money.
What whether I want to spend it all today or
in ten years, it's mine. It's not going to be
picked apart by the text system. And also I can
(16:29):
pass it along to my heirs in a text free
uh wroth account versus a traditional.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's that's Rick. You know, you're you're preaching to the choir.
You're exactly right, like you know, and part of what
you know what I'm going to talk about a little
bit later, but this is great to get into it
right now. Is you know this Wroth conversion. The word
has been thrown around like so much that you know,
I'm not sure everybody fully understands, right, you know, what
is it? And why do we do it? But you're
(16:57):
exactly what you're saying is exactly right, like you're you're
gonna The downside is, hey, you're gonna you're taking money
that is in a tax deferred vehicle like a four
to oh one K or IRA, and you're you're now accelerating,
you're paying the tax on it. But what you do,
it's you're converting an unknown into a known. Because if
(17:18):
you retire, just you know, just as you said, if
you retire and I'm just gonna make numbers up with
a five hundred thousand dollars four oh one K and
you roll it over to an IRA, well, how much
of that is your money versus the government's money? You don't.
You don't know, and you won't know because what's gonna
happen is you're right, you know, with that IRA, at
some point, the government's gonna say, hey, you can't keep
(17:40):
it in there. We want our taxes at some point.
So roughly right now, at age seventy three, you're gonna
start taking required minimum distributions rmds, and when you do,
you're gonna pay tax. It's gonna be taxes ordinary income. Right,
and so again we know what the tax rates are
now what are they gonna be in five, ten, fifteen,
twenty years. You don't know. So you're right, Rick, You're
(18:00):
what you're doing is you're taking the known and saying, hey,
this is can I handle this tax bite? And certainly
you know, when we're running numbers, if you have money
outside of your IRA to pay for those taxes, the
numbers look better. I'm not saying it's an absolute because
I've actually done an analysis where it was okay that some
of that converted money was used to pay taxes. We
(18:22):
generally don't like that, but again it's really every unique,
every you know situation has to be analyzed because they
are unique. But you're right, So now you're you're you're
you're paying the taxes, but you know what that is
as opposed to some unknown And again I'm not like
an alarmist. I'm not saying I think you know tax
rates are going to go to ninety five percent, But
(18:43):
the fact is if they go up, right, you're now
going to pay more of that. And as you mentioned,
from an estate planning point of view, you know you
hit the nail there is if you inherit it inherit
an IRA, you have to you know, I now have
to take it over ten years, I have to pay
tax it it becomes ordinary income. And it may be
(19:04):
at the point of my life where I am in
my highest earning. Right, I've inherited this from a family member.
You're gonna pay taxes and could be very high taxes.
You've got very little control over that. You inherit a wroth,
you still have to take it out over ten years, right,
because the government's saying, hey, this wroth vehicle is amazing
because you're the growth is all tax free, right, So
(19:26):
they're going to make you take it out, but you're
not going to pay tax on it. So from an
estate planning point of view, very very powerful vehicle. And
that is one of the reasons. You know, we and
again there is no one size fits all. I've worked
with individuals in their forties and fifties doing wroth conversions.
(19:47):
I've worked with individuals in their late seventies doing roth conversions.
You know, certainly, again there's some general rules of thumb.
Is the longer that's going to be in a row,
So the longer you're going to benefit from the a
tax free growth, is it better? But from a from
an UH in a state planning point of view, there's
a lot of benefits as well. So Rick appreciate that question.
(20:10):
That was, uh, you know, right on spot on with
some of the stuff I'm going to talk about today.
And again, what I love about this show is we
respond to questions you have, and I certainly don't mind
moving that forward and hitting on most of the key
points right there.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Okay, Yeah, you confirmed some thoughts that Dad, So I
appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
All right, Thank you, Rich, appreciate you tuning in. We've
got a caller, Bill from Glenville. Bill, I know you're
on the line. I don't know if you're still on there,
and we're going to be heading into a commercial break shortly,
but I don't know if you're there. If you if
you have a question, we can at lead get the
question out and maybe answer it after the break.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Sure, I actually have I.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Have two questions. Actually I'll go to the first one.
I have quite a holding in Tesla in the last
couple of days, it's about fifty dollars a share. Do
you have any information why it's it's done so well
in the last couple of days?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
You know, so part of Tesla's growth has been you know,
related to the you know, I'm sure you've heard a
lot about the pay package with Elon Musk and I
think that they're uh some exuberance about getting Elon wrapped
up and and and in terms of the individual into
(21:37):
you know, other factors causing Tesla stock that I have
not followed, but I certainly, you know, let me go
to text one of my uh one of our investment
committee guys and just see if he has any feedback
we can provide. But you know, certainly, you know Tesla
certainly as a as a tech stock, certainly responding you know,
(21:58):
to news like that and any you had, you said
you had a two part question. What was the second
part of that?
Speaker 4 (22:06):
The other one is basically going back to your previous caller.
I just turned seventy years old and I have a
significant IRA situation, and so I think about converting to
the rosth Irn. I guess it depends on my income,
but anyway, I had three year window to kind of
drim that down a little bit.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Okay, you know, great, So Rick, I don't can you
stay on through the break? I hate to jor you
were We're going to be heading into a commercial break,
and I don't want to lose you there, so if
you don't mind staying in. So we are halfway through
today's show and we're going to be taking a commercial break.
I want to thank you for tuning with me today.
Hope you are enjoying this show, and we'll rejoin us
(22:50):
after the break. We encourage listeners to call in with questions.
You can reach me at eight hundred talk WGY. That's
eight hundred eight two five five nine four nine. You
were listening to Let's Do You by Booshe Finance Group,
where we help our clients prioritize their health. Well, we well,
(23:10):
thank you for staying with us through that commercial break.
I'm John Malay and I'm your host for this morning show.
I'm a certified public accountant, I'm the firm's chief operating officer,
chief financial officer, and a wealth advisor. Before we headed
to the break, we had Bill from Glenville. Bill, appreciate
you listening, and you know, just wanted to hit on
your first part of your question on the you know
(23:31):
Tesla and we've seen the pop and I know I
mentioned you know one of the primary factors was, you know,
the massive compensation package for Elon Musk, and you know,
really the board showing support for that, and that is showing,
you know, reinforced. I think investor confidence of must long
(23:51):
term leadership. And you know, Musk is such an important
part of that company. I think investors want to make
sure he's committed and tied in for law haul. Also,
they had some new product news I think, which is,
you know, diversifying beyond just the vehicle, so you know,
added strength to their energy business outside of just vehicles,
so on the AI robotics area for sure. So I think,
(24:14):
you know, diversification and tying up uh elon for life hopefully.
And I know, and I apologize that you had a
second part to your question, Bill, and if you don't
mind repeating that, that'd be helpful.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
It's it's basically the same as your previous caller about
uh ROTH. I mean, IRA, I say, I just turned
seventy and I have a significant amount of money in
my IRA. I'm looking for a strategy to try.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
To alleviate the tax.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Implications in the future.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I guess, yeah, that's that's that's a great question, Bill,
And I will say that is uh an issue a
lot of people are facing, right is if you know,
if you didn't have a pension plan, which most employers
don't have pension plans. You know, we were You're you're investing,
(25:11):
uh in getting tax breaks by participating in a four
oh one K or four to three B, right, so
you're putting money in a tax deferred basis. And you know,
we're working and putting money into our four oh one K,
maxing out or putting as much as we can in
maximizing the match, and then all of a sudden, we've
got this huge pre tax balance that we now are
(25:32):
retiring with and part of that money is ours, but
part of it's a tax liability. And uh so that
that is a challenge that a lot of either current
retirees you know who are just retired or folks a
few years away are faced with because you know, with
the IRA, you have a required minimum distribution that you
(25:56):
have to take and even if you don't need that money,
you have to take it. And if you've got a
large balance, that could be a significant, significant amount that
you're required to take as an r m D. And
so so I will say, you know, it is it
is not. You know, in the situation you're in, it's
not too late to look at doing Wroth conversions. And
(26:20):
typically you know what the the way you know, the
process we go through is, you know, we it's really
some tax planning. So we start looking at the tax return,
understanding what brackets you're in, also understanding from an URMA right,
so from a Medicare premium perspective, what your brackets are
where you are, because that can affect your income also, right,
can affect your Medicare premiums. So uh, and part of
(26:44):
is understanding what your goals. Right, is this money that
you you is there a part of that you're never
gonna need? Right? And and that may or may not
be the case. Right, So you're saying, hey, it's got
not only my lifetime as a horizon, but I'm gonna
then it's gonna go to my kids or weather airs
and it can also then grow tax free for another time.
(27:07):
Horizon is something to look at. And so typically you know,
we look at you know is the previous caller we
do look at there's a strategy of looking at what
tax bracket you're in and trying to say, okay, how
much you know, do we do a multi year plan
where we're taking out enough that keeps you in your
current bracket. Uh in taking that as a roth conversion.
(27:30):
You know, as you know, as you the amount that
you take as a conversion, you're now paying ordinary income
tax on that, right, So we're planning that do you
have cash aside to pay for that? You know, if not,
we need to factor that in. So I think, you know,
it's it's sitting down and I would say, you know,
this is a big part of what we do as advice,
(27:50):
you know, as a financial advisor and as a fiduciary,
and I would say, if you're not working with someone,
I would recommend you know, you work with someone, because
it is I will say, you know, Steve Bousche always
says his clients first come to us, or a lot
of times come to us for investment management. Right, they
want to take the emotion out of investing, and they
need help. But our our financial planning and tax planning
(28:13):
has become such a huge component that for the very
reason we're talking about is planning how I'm going to
take distributions, How am I going to work about the
required minimum distributions. So it's going through a planning exercise
to determine do we do this over a number of years,
how much do we convert? So it is an individualized analysis.
(28:34):
It's not something that's, hey, it's do the same approach
for everybody. But I will say this, you know, I
think your bill, your your right to be thinking about it,
and I would I would certainly work with a professional
to lay that out, do some analysis because the tax
savings can be significant. And you know what is you know,
(28:54):
it's just talking with you Rick about who knows where
tax rates are going and that that's you know, that's
you know, that's part of the unknown in the analysis.
But if you if you are the belief that tax
rates are going to go up over the next twenty years,
you know, it could be a great time to do
a conversion. And it's also you know, as we talk
(29:17):
about you know when to do a Wroth conversion, right
because you know, sometimes we hold off if we're at
market highs. We wait for the markets to dip. Because
I'm just going to use a very simplistic example. Let's
say that you had an IRA that was all in
one stock, and let's say let's say it was Tesla stock,
(29:38):
and that Tesla stock is near all time highs. Well,
we might say, is, let's wait for a pullback, right,
because if what's going to happen is if the stock
pulls back twenty percent, right, you're now going to be
taxed at that lower amount if you if you do
the conversion when when markets that are all time high. Right,
(29:58):
let's say you do the convert version, that's you've just
locked in the amount that you're going to be realizing
its ordinary income. Right. So sometimes we wait for hey,
let's so sometimes we might work with a client say hey,
this is the year we want to do a Roth conversion,
but hey, maybe now isn't the right time. So we
have clients who are just waiting for a market pullback
(30:20):
and then we're going to execute that conversion. Right. So
in the example we just talked about, Tesla goes down
twenty percent, we say, okay, let's do the conversion. Now
you've just reduced your tax bill, right because now instead
of being you know, tax that ordinary income at that
higher amount, if the stock has gone down twenty percent,
that's going to reduce the amount that you're going to
(30:41):
be taxed on. Does that does that make sense? Okay,
I think we've lost lost bill there. So that was
a great question. And you know interesting, you know I
identified as a as a topic for today and certainly, uh,
(31:04):
based on the two callers I got already, certainly it's
a topic that's that's pretty timely. So you know, when
I think about this, this segment of other things I was
gonna talk about, you know, so we really talked about
you know, what is and I want to demystify those
just to make sure you know, individuals know. So all
(31:25):
it is is if you've got money in a traditional
IRA or four one k, right, so you put money
into that, and you've got a tax break when you
put money in So when you convert it to a
wroth that let's just say you're converting one hundred dollars
and you take you say, I've got it in a
IRA right now, traditional ira, and I'm going to convert
(31:46):
it to a wroth. The year you do that conversion,
that one hundred dollars gets added to you as ordinary income.
So you now pay tax on that. And you might say, well,
why would I do that. We've kind of covered why,
you know, because now now you know what that tax is,
you've reduced an unknown But the important part is now
that it's in the wroth, that money can grow, right,
(32:09):
So we'll use that example of test. Let's say you
had one hundred dollars in there, and now over the
next twenty years that grew to one hundred thousand. You
can pull that one hundred thousand out. You pay no
tax on any of that, So you've turned it from
an IRA, which is a taxable bucket. Right, if you
retire and you pull money out of that in retirement,
you're going to pay tax every dollar you pull out,
(32:32):
you're going to pay tax on as ordinary income. In
the wroth, you need to pull money out, you don't
pay any tax on it. And I will say the wroth,
you know, So sometimes retiree is like, Wow, I've got
some money in my wroth. Let's start pulling from that first.
We like to keep the wroth is the last bucket
you're going to touch. And for a couple reasons, you know,
One is you want it to grow. You want that
(32:54):
growth to be as tax free as long as possible.
And secondly, as we've discussed with another call, if you
pass away your heirs who get that wroth, you've just
given them a gift. You've given them tax free money,
so they inherit that WROTH, they still have to draw
it down over ten years, right, because the IRS is saying, hey,
(33:15):
we're not going to let you grow this tax free forever. Right,
So if I inherit it from my family member, I
still have to draw it down, but I'm not paying
tax on that money coming out, and so very powerful vehicle.
I will say, there's a WROTH component. More four oh
one K or four to three B plans have a
(33:36):
WROTH component. So I will say, if you're still working,
right and talk to your employer, make sure you understand
if you've got a WROTH component, it's a if. So
I would highly recommend evaluating, you know, putting money into
the WROTH versus the traditional Now, when you do it,
you're not going to get the tax break up front,
but you're starting to build that tax free bucket. So
(33:59):
a great planning strategy, you know. And you know, one
of the last things that is a little confusing with
ROTH is there's there's these five year rules, and you know,
there's actually two five year rules, but one of them
relates to conversions and really is and it's really meant
to prevent people from skirting around the ten percent penalty
(34:23):
on early withdrawals on iras. Right. So if you have
a traditional IRA and you're fifty years old, right, so
you're not fifty nine and a half, and you want
to take one hundred thousand dollars out right, you're going
to be penalized, right because you're is considered an early
with draws, So you're gonna pay a ten percent penalty
on that money in addition to being tax on it. Right.
(34:47):
And so with a wroth conversion, what happens is every
conversion you do starts another five year ticker, a clock
that's ticking. So again, let's say you're forty years old,
you do that wroth conversion. Now you're paying the tax,
right because you're you're paying the tax, but you're not
paying any ten percent penalty, right because you really have.
(35:11):
All you've done is converted that money to a wroth.
So but the IRS is, well, we'll allow that, but
if you try to take some of that principle before
five years are up from the conversion date, you're gonna
get hit with that ten percent penalty, right, because they
wouldn't want you to kind of circumvent that ten percent
penalty on iras by you do a wroth and then
(35:32):
two years later you take out the principle. Effectively, what
you've done is taken out the principle of your IRA.
You've paid tax, right, you paid the ordinary tax, but
you didn't pay the penalty. So they're not gonna let
you do that. So there's a five year ticker on that.
You know, new clock that starts, and it's a clock
that restarts with every conversion that you do. But I
(35:52):
get I will say, just wrap up wroth conversions. I
know you've heard a lot. It's it's, it's it's. Every
news publication has had a number of wroth articles this year.
Hopefully that did a little bit to demystify it and
with some help from some of the callers there. But
I would say it's a strategy that's definitely worth looking at.
(36:13):
But it's not a cookie cutter, it really is. You
have to valuate your own personal circumstances. But definitely, I
will say, not one of these situations where you have
to be a certain age, you have to do this,
you have to do that. I've had it. I've executed
successfully wroth conversions number of different circumstances. So certainly, work
(36:34):
with someone to help evaluate it. We're going to take
a quick commercial break, so please stay tuned and we'll
be right back with Let's Talk Money on eight ten.
WGY Well, thank you for staying with me through that
quick little break. I appreciate you tuning in this morning.
It has certainly been a big Wroth conversion conversation, which
(36:56):
is I think an important topic, so good to talk
about that. I want to switch gears for a second,
and you know, really talk about the psychology of money,
and you know, a lot of you know, I'm a
career finance professional, spend a lot of time in spreadsheets
and analyzing data, and this is really you know, stepping
(37:17):
away from that, right, It's really about the psychology and
how are how are wired impacts us? And uh, you know,
it can be almost more important than some of the
you know, pure you know, investment decisions about picking the
right stock or the wrong stock. You know, it's really
(37:38):
about how we think, how we feel and behave with
money often matters more. You can have two people making
the same amount of money investing in the same market
and end up with very very different financial places, and
it's simply because the decisions they make in the motions
behind those decisions along the way, and you know, part
(37:59):
of it, this is a big part of why clients
choose to work with an advisor. One of our key
roles is really is to take the emotion away from investing, right,
and because it can be hard emotionally, it can be hard,
especially as there is market volatility, and so you know,
the first point really is to really recognize money is emotional.
(38:23):
It's not just rational. It's not just you know, decisions
being generated by a computer. You know, these are emotional decisions.
And you know, so things like when the markets fall,
you know, fear takes over and we have some investors panic, right,
I've got to sell, I've got to get out of
the market, you know. And when we had you know,
(38:43):
some of the volatility this year, right, we had markets down,
you know, heading into April, and you know, we have
a lot of conversations with our clients, so we didn't
have clients panic. Now I'm not going to say we didn't.
I didn't have you know, some tough conversations. But you know,
if somebody panicked and got out of the market, guess what.
The markets have recovered over twenty five percent since April.
(39:05):
They would have missed all that recovery because exiting is
one thing deciding when to get back in. So some
of the the reality of the emotion is fear takes
over when markets go down. Same thing when when markets rise, right,
you know, greed can take over. We're humans and these
emotions are real. You know, we've seen people chasing the
hot stock or jumping into something, you know, after really
(39:28):
with fear of missing out right, And we're seeing a
little bit about that with some crypto. And you know
how many times have you heard somebody I read all
this money in crypto and it's like, well, I've got
to do it. I've got to get into it. And
it may make sense for you, may not, but you
want to move, you know, you want to you know,
you want to make that investment on a rational approach
and it's just not an emotional knee jerk reaction. And
(39:51):
you know, there's a reality to loss a version, right
behavioral finance. You know, we we and the idea is
that you know, we feel the pain losses about us
twice as strong as we feel the joy of gains, right,
So a lot of times, you know, we want to,
you know, make decisions that avoid pain, avoid those losses.
(40:12):
And that's not always the right decisions. So and we've
seen listen, I don't care how smart you are, I've
seen extremely intelligent people make poor financial choices. And because
those decisions, that psychology is tied into our sense of security,
(40:34):
our status, and sometimes our identity. Right, So it's real,
it happens. You know. The other thing from a psychology
point of view is like the power of habits matter, right,
And largely financial outcomes are shaped by habits and small
decisions over time. And I think you know what we've
seen there is you know, individuals who save regularly, even
(40:57):
small amounts, build wealth, right. And this gets to the
adage we talk about. You know, it's about time in
the market, not about timing in the market, right, being
in the market for a long time, being consistent, putting
money in consistently right. And that's I will tell you.
I've seen individuals who you look at their income their
(41:17):
W two and you think they should have a massive
investment account and they don't. And then you look at
somebody else who's got a modest income. But guess what
for thirty years, you know they were putting money aside.
Maybe in the beginning was a very small dollar amount
because that's all they could afford. But guess what, they
flexed their muscle. They created those habits of saving right,
(41:39):
and they built that consistency and over time maybe they
were able to increase it a little bit. But the
power of compounding is real, and so building that habit,
getting that going consistently. And I will say this, it
is never too late. It is never too late. I
have individuals who are close, you know, maybe they're in
(42:02):
their late fifties, and they're like, I should have started
this a long time ago, and there's some embarrassment, and
it's like, you know, we're humans. You had things going
on with your life. You can't beat yourself up. And
so it's never too late. Start do something. Don't just
put your head in the sand, you know, Start building
that habit, getting those contributions. So seeing investors save regularly again,
(42:26):
getting that consistency going even with small amounts, keeping a
budget right at least in you know, some people are
you know, have detailed budgets tracking every expense. But I
think the main thing is being mindful of your cash
flow right and automate your contributions. Set up things where
you're automatically putting money into accounts. So it just happens.
Because really, the psychology of consistency, and that's whether it's
(42:49):
eating or exercising, is real. We have a caller, Mike
on the line from Latham. Mike, appreciate you tuning in
this morning and what can I do for it? Mike? Oh, sorry,
we had Mike dropped the call, So Mike appreciate you
trying to call in, but uh uh, I will say, Mike,
tune in tomorrow. My colleague Martin Shields will be hosting
(43:12):
tomorrow's show at Bright and early eight am. So if
you still have that question, and I could see that
you're probably driving if you lost coverage, call into Marty
tomorrow and I'm sure he'll be able to handle your question. So,
you know, just getting back to the psychology, and this
is not meant to be appreciated. It's really meant to
be helpful, right, is that building those habits? And from
(43:34):
a psychology point of view, there are common biases that
just that creep into money management, and you know, part
of it is a recency bias. You know, sometimes we
assumed whatever just happened is going to keep happening, and
that could be whether it's an up market or down market.
You know, it's it's letting that play too big of
(43:56):
a role, thinking that that's going to continue. It's also
common information bias, Right, you're seeking out opinions that really
agree with what you what you're thinking, and ignoring the
others that might be opposite. Right, So you're only getting
you're not getting a balanced view, You're kind of getting
a really a siloed view that's really meant to confirm
what you're thinking. Uh. And sometimes over confidence I will say, Uh,
(44:21):
you know, sometimes in a in an up market, people
are picking individual stocks and they're like, wow, I picked
I picked Tesla, I picked Navidia, and look they're going great,
and all of a sudden they get a little over
confident and think, wow, I'm really good at this. And
then they start to say, well, I'm not going to
invest in baskets and stocks like ETFs. I'm gonna go
(44:42):
and I'm just gonna pick individual stocks. I'm gonna be
an individual stock picker. And that that overconfidence generally does
not end well because in reality, you know, markets humble
almost everyone. You know, it is, as I mentioned, it
is so hard to consistently pick individual stocks. I mean historically,
(45:03):
you know, two percent of individual stocks drive market returns.
The rest lag behind. And so if you're not picking
those right individual stocks, you're lagging behind. And you know
that's one of the primary reasons. You know, in our portfolio,
we do have a couple of individual stocks, Apple and Amazon,
but primarily we are diversified through ETF holdings because we
(45:24):
know our hard it's very hard to pick individual stocks,
and so, you know, some practical takeaways for this, it's
just understanding, Hey, emotion is real in investing in money,
and so start to build an emergency fund, and that
is can be you know, just by starting small small deposits.
(45:48):
Build that up right, automate your savings and investments, set
those up so that are on autopilot. Have money automatically
taken out of your your checking account or savings account
moved over to a brokerage account, right automated, so you
don't have to make decisions on whether to do that
or not. That automation just gives you that consistency. You know,
(46:11):
check in with your goals, like there's the market headlines
are can be overwhelming at times, right, So just really
go back to your goals. You know, if markets are declining,
we're seeing a dip. Look at your goals, right, Do
I need money out of the portfolio? Am I? Okay?
Speaker 4 (46:29):
There?
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Right? And I will say, you know, limit your news exposure.
I know it can be difficult, but just there's so
much fear in greed media out there and talk about
money right, share have communications. So we are coming to
the end of the show. I want to thank you
for tuning with me today. I hope you enjoyed the show.
(46:50):
I know that I certainly did. I hope you enjoy
the rest of this beautiful weekend and have an amazing
week ahead. Be sure to tune in next week for
another great show. Sure to tune in tomorrow at eight
am for Marty. You have been listening to Let's Talk Money,
brought to you by Bouchet Financial Group, where we help
our clients prioritize their health while we manage their wealth
(47:14):
for life. Again, thank you for tuning in, appreciate you.
Hope you enjoyed the show, and again, Marty Shields will
be hosting tomorrow's show eight am. Have a great weekend.
Thank you,
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