Do Interceptions Really Matter

Was Saquon missed used last season, and Dak wants to throw less int's why Zach isn't concerned with int's

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
We are two days away from thefirst month of football season. And yes,
I know it's only preseason, butguess what it gets that itch that
you're waiting to scratch and just enough, just enough. This is for the
love of sports on Fox Sports signeeighty. So yesterday Sequon Barkley shows up

(00:22):
at dick Sporting Goods fur meet andgreet from six to seven thirty. I
believe it was the new Dixon Latham. You were there. How fantastic did
it look? You weren't there forSequon Barkley, but you were there.
Yes, thanks for reminding me ofthat. Yeah, I believe before I
got to see it looked gorgeous.It was. It was packed, it
was everything looked reinvigorated. The stateof the store looked awesome. The staff

(00:47):
were incredible. It was a greatevent in the fact of everything they're doing
to try and bring that store backis awesome. Yeah. So everything involving
Sequan getting there. He signs withthe Giants on Wednesday. From someone I
talked to if he said yes togoing to Dick's Barton Goods on Thursday,

(01:08):
they find out on Friday and he'sthere on Saturday. Did come together very
quickly yes, and right after astressful contract negotiation had just played out where
Quon was painted in a less thanfavorable light and something that you brought up,
do you think that this was akind of way for him to represent

(01:34):
himself to the New York audience,to kind of be like, oh see,
I'm I'm with you guys, I'mreaching back out with the communities and
you know, re establishing myself.I'm here for the Giants, I'm here
for New York. You know.The one thing that I never understood about
fans, and a fan is shortfor a fanatic. For this reason in
particular, fans will always take theside of a billionaire over of a millionaire.

(01:59):
And whether you think it, believeit or not, you are you're
taking the side of a billionaire overa millionaire. So for me, there
was leaks from the Giant organization,and there's no doubt in my mind that
they were leaking these contract negotiations thatwere going on. And for the most
part, outside of maybe a littleemoji here, emoji there, se Quon

(02:22):
Barkley was very gentlemanlike until the veryvery end, very very end. Then
he ended up going on to MoneyPodcast which I know you got some clip
notes from that we'll get into ina second. But he really did a
great job of just staying neutral throughoutthis whole thing with all this stuff being
leaked, and I still have Giantsfans on my Facebook telling me that he's

(02:45):
greedy, he's money hungry, he'sselfish. And I tried to explain franchise
tag if he gets tagged two yearsin a row, he will make a
combined twenty two million that is guaranteedwithin those two years. So for you
to offer me a three year dealwith twenty two million guaranteed is a slap

(03:05):
in the face and I would feelcompletely disrespected by a team that I've been
so loyal to. And this iswhy he needed to get out in the
media involved with the Capitol Region,because at the end of the day,
I do believe he's a wholesome Fromeverything that I've seen, he's a wholesome
guy. He's very loyal, hedoesn't get in any trouble. He's not

(03:28):
a troublemaker in the locker room.Maybe a little prankster, but not a
you know, big guy that getsin trouble in the locker room. Doesn't
get in trouble off the field.He does a lot of stuff in the
community, but for whatever reason,when it comes to money, you got
to paint somebody in a bad lightto make yourself look better. I've never
gotten that point where we've taken abillionaire side over a millionaire side. So

(03:53):
I think this is good pr andI'm glad that he did get out there
because at the end of the day, he's just a guy that's looking to
make a living in How can youfault a guy for that? Yeah,
And the most important thing from hisside of things overall is that he's trying
to protect himself. You know,it was something that was became a focal
point of the conversation. Obviously itwas bigger than Saquon Barkley, but Saquon

(04:15):
Barkley kind of got thrown to themix of it when you had guys like
Derrick Henry, Nick Chubb and allof them getting in throwing their hats in
the ring, saying running backs area highly underpaid position, especially for how
much contribution they give to the teamand how much teams rely on them,
which is never stressed to a pointgreater than when it comes to Saquon Barkley

(04:35):
and what he's done for the Giants. So the fact of he got ended
up in the center of that conversationof look, I'm getting paid basically what
I'm getting franchise tagged for. Andthen it was even more apparent because not
only is he getting franchise tagged fortwo years, when he's done being franchise
tagged, he's twenty eight. Thatputs you in a specific market on itself.

(05:00):
Now you're approaching being thirty years old, thirty year old running back.
M that's as far as an NFLmarket, that puts you in a very
already separate category as far as anundesirable And listen, I understand the analytics
of this move, because you candraft a young guy get them under contract
for four years. I understand thatpart. I also understand that running backs

(05:24):
value overall has gone down. Butthat's like I said, overall, because
I know there's a lot more ofthe quarterbacks that are now more mobile,
that are shouldering more of what runningbacks used to do. So when we
get into red zone, when weget in the five yard line, it's
no longer I'm gonna run the ballup the middle three times. It's Hey,

(05:45):
I'm gonna get my quarterback and involvedin a run game. We've seen
it with Lamar, We've seen itwith Josh Allen. We've seen it with
Daniel Jones last year. We've seenit with Jalen Hurts. We've seen it
with a lot more quarterbacks take onthat role of school or the touchdowns when
you get down deep into those situations, which also takes away from the value
of running backs. That's what theydid best. So I do understand all

(06:09):
those aspects to the value overall ofa running back. But we're not talking
about a running back. We're talkingabout the running back and what I mean
by the We're talking Derrick Henry,We're talking Alvin Kamara, We're talking Nick
Chubb. We're talking Christian McCaffrey.Not just some Joe Schmo running back.

(06:30):
We're talking about one of the toptier running backs that and I told you
the show's going to get utterly ridiculouswith me and my cow shirt. Of
course it has to be. Ifeel that the Giants understanding the situation last
year before last season started, we'regoing to roll out the ball and said,

(06:53):
go play. Whatever happens happens.You know, they could have been
drafting a new quarterback if the seasondidn't go as well as it did last
year. And that's just the god'shonest truth. The way that they planned
to use sa Quon Barkley in away that they did use him in a
full season do not add up tome, because I feel that they were

(07:15):
trying to pay sa Quon Barkley basedon what they asked him to do last
year rather than what his talent allowsyou to do within an offense. And
I know you got some stuff totake on that, yeah, And that's
the fact of just how he's beenmisinterpreted as a running back. I feel
like from coach to coach, whetherit was Judge, whether it was Garrett,
we've talked about the fact he's notthe inside run guy. He's not

(07:40):
the Zekael Elliott. He's not DereckHenry, he's not Nick Chubb. He's
a Christian McCaffrey. He can catchthe ball. He breaks ankles for a
living. That's what he does.Give him open field and he'll get you
there. He'll get you in thered zone. Whenever you want just bounce
it outside, give it on ascreenplay. He will get you yards that's
what he does best. And thiswas something that was proposed as the main
idea and the main focus of howSaquon was going to be used with this

(08:01):
offense with Daniel Jones. He wasgoing to get the ball bounced out to
him. He was going to bemore of a receiving running back. And
then that didn't happen. He wasa guy who was getting handed the ball
thirty times a game and just gettold all right, run for three yards.
Yep, that's not what he doesbuilt for. He said such on

(08:22):
the Money podcast. So he wason Money Matters podcasts, and this is
what he said. He said thatthe team planned to use him more like
Christian McCaffrey last year. They hadhim running roots, moving across the formation.
That was the plan, and itnever came to fruition. He later
said an same interview, the focalpoint when we play opposing teams is to

(08:45):
stop me. So the opposing defensesare setting up a game plan to stop
Saquon Barkley. That just shows you, you know, how valuable he is
to this team. And I feel, like I said, utterly ridiculous.
I feel that the Giants purposely usedhim in a different light to bring to

(09:07):
the table in contract negotiations, becauseeven though he caught a lot of passes
last year, the most sens hisrookie year, those were ballot catches.
And what I mean ball out bailoutcatches is that those were dump and hope
we get something. Yep. Thosewere Austin Eckler type catches where I'm gonna
throw the ball to you two threeyards behind the line of scrimmage for the

(09:31):
best. Go bail me out,Go bail me out. Because if you
go take a look at his numbers, and I'm not looking at his numbers
right now, but I guarantee youhis yards after the catch outweigh outweigh his
receiving yards, guarantee you. Oh, I bet they do. And you
know it's even better with all this. They're like, oh, you know,
he's worth ten million a year.I think he's getting like a just

(09:52):
I think he's he's not even gettingten million, one hundred thousan dollars and
he's getting ten million, nine thousanddollars or something like that. Something.
Yeah. Yeah, he has betterstats on a regular basis than Christian McCaffrey,
who's getting over twelve million a year. That's where we're at. He
regularly is putting up better numbers,double digit touchdowns, and has the ability

(10:13):
to be used like a Christian McCaffreyand much more in the receiving game,
has many more contributions two million less. As a Giants fan that you are,
and as a Daniel Jones I wouldn'tcall myself a bandwagoner, but I
was a fan of his from thebeginning. The one thing that I always

(10:35):
said is that it is hard toevalue what Daniel Jones can actually be without
the amount of weapons around him.You take a look at anybody in a
league, any young quarterback. Theypaired him with a veteran number one wide
receiver, a true bona fide widereceiver. He hasn't had that. So
what do you do you get DarrenWaller, Now, let me put se

(10:58):
Quon Barkley in a slot. Lethim earn his dollars. Let him say,
Hey, if you go out andball out and you get all these
catches, you're running routes for me, you're scoring touchdowns, and you're a
receiving threat and a running threat.Yeah, I'm gonna pay you twelve million,
and I'm gonna guarantee a lot ofmoney, you know, because you
are Christian McCaffrey, you are AlvinKamara, you are Austin Eckler. And

(11:22):
I think he's a step above AustinHeckler because he's a better in between runner
than Austin Eckler is simple, maybefor size or whatever the reason may be
there, but sae Quon Barkley isbetter in that aspect. But ultimately it
comes down to I am curious tosee how they use him this year because
he went on that Money podcast,because he talked about this, and he

(11:43):
straight up said the Giants knew theirsituation. They held all the leverage and
said, if you don't want tosign with us, we're just gonna franchise
tag you for two seasons. Andthat's basically the same contract we're begging you
to sign, yep. And that'sstraight upset up. Yeah, And that
puts you out a point where you'retwenty years old, good look at a
great contract after that. It's tough. It is tough because in the NFL

(12:07):
running backs are like cars. Themore mileage on him, the lesser the
value. And that's just the God'shonest truth when it comes to running backs.
One other thing I did want totalk about before we went to our
NFL preview of another division this weekendis I wanted to discuss a quote that
I saw from Dak Prescott that saidhe guarantees that his interceptions will be down

(12:30):
this year, and I'm paraphrasing,and I wanted to tell you that I
don't think interceptions are the be allend all when it comes to stats,
and I think they are overvalued interms of stats because when you look at
a quarterback, you look at hisBASSER rating, you look at his passing
yards, you look at his interceptionsthrown compared to his touchdowns. I don't

(12:52):
think it's the be all end all. And just by the look on your
face, I know you have somethingto say. So I'm going to open
up the floor because I know youdisagree with me, and then I'm gonna
tell you why interceptions to me aremissed opportunities. And when you have someone
like Dak Prescott, who last yearhad fifteen interceptions, that's a lot of

(13:13):
missed opportunities that are offensive drives thatcould have gotten you better field position,
could have gotten you more field goals, more touchdowns. Yes, the stats
sometimes aren't reflective of the situation.There are times where it's you're down thirty
nothing, you're throwing a hail Marypass, just trying to hope that you
get something going in those In thosesituations, I get it, but overall,

(13:35):
it's simply it's it's the big focus. Why people were angry at Daniel
Jones in his first couple of years. His turnovers were insane, and he
was every time he was running,he's fumbling the football. It's inexcusable for
how many opportunities you're missing on offensedue to mental mistakes, due to bad
passes, due to just not readinga defense properly. And that's why interceptions

(13:56):
to me, may not be theend all, be all, but are
certainly a major thing to look atwhen considering a quarterback. All Right,
I'm gonna tell you my favorite quotethat I always use on the show.
Stats are like bikinis. They reveala lot, but they do not reveal
everything. I understand what you're saying, but contexts matters, and you cannot

(14:18):
read contexts in stats. And that'smy number one concern with interceptions, because
people look at it and it's thebe all, end all. They take
it for the exact number that itis. So if you threw fifteen interceptions,
you threw fifteen interceptions, didn't matterif it was a hail mary at
the end of the first half orat the end of the game where you're

(14:39):
losing. Didn't matter. If youknow it was a third and ten from
your own fifty yard line and mostlikely you were going to punt the ball
anyway, So you try to makesomething happen and it got intercepted, it
doesn't take an effect of those things. It also doesn't take an effect.
Was it a deflection. Did itget deflected by one of the defensive linemen

(15:00):
because your offensive linemen wasn't doing theirjob. Did it get deflected off of
a receiver's hands. So for me, I don't want to say that interceptions
are flukey because you don't see somebodythrow thirty interceptions and then throw five interceptions
next year. But they vary ina degree where I can see a guy
through ten interceptions one year in fifteeneighteen interceptions because he had an unlucky year,

(15:26):
how many interceptions were dropped, howmany were caught? So for me,
in particular context matters. So aslong as you're not throwing interceptions within
your own thirty yard line and thenwithin the thirty yard line trying to march
to score. I'm okay with that. If you throw interceptions between the thirties
and the thirties, I'm okay withthat, depending on the context of it.

(15:50):
Third and ten, you're looking tomake a push. You know you're
out of field goal range, butyou know you're also going to punt the
ball. Go for it, pushit down the field, try to get
it. You know, my bigthing are those interceptions the result of you
forcing it? Or are they theresult of the siduation? And to just

(16:11):
look at interceptions for dak just tosay I'm gonna throw less interceptions, I
don't want him to say that becauseI want him to be aggressive to a
point with the ball, and interceptionsare likely to happen. You know,
one of the things I knock onAaron Rodgers for all the time is that
he didn't throw enough interceptions. Andwhat I mean by that is that he
didn't have that gunsling or mentality whenhe needed to if it was a chance

(16:36):
of an interception, but also adeep ball that they desperately needed because the
offense wasn't moving the ball at anypace. You know, for me,
you need to make that throw.You have to make that effort. If
it gets intercepted, that's all right. You know your defense can get you
the ball back or whatever the casemay be. You know, maybe they
hold him to three points, whateverthe point. Maybe there is context that

(16:59):
needs to be off in these interceptions, and interceptions are not as bad as
people make them. See, Iget that. But on the other side
of it, when we're at atime where we're seeing, like for most
players, from what I can find, you're looking at roughly your six seven
interceptions is the average in the inthe NFL at this point, six seven
around ten per year is roughly wherewe're at, And that's actually going down.

(17:19):
With more run game being added intoit and with more short passes being
added into the game, we're seeingthat number actually decline. And yet a
thirty year old Dak Prescott is atan all time high for himself at fifteen,
being the interception leader last year.Is that being too risky? Are
you taking too many bad chances?Are you putting yourself in too many bad
positions? Are you giving up toomany offensive opportunities? When you're at an

(17:44):
all time high at the latest stagein your career. We're just saying the
same thing, but looking at itin different aspects. So I'm a half
full You're a half empty kind ofguy right now. So we are saying
the exact same thing. But mypoint is, you know, what if
the receivers in the wrong route.What if you got new receivers like Dak
Prescott did last year. You know, he didn't have just Cede Lamb,

(18:08):
he had Noah Brown, he hadthis guy, he had that guy filling
in. So he lost a lotlast year. Now he's got another receiver,
he's got a bona fide Brandon Cooks, he's got one of the best
third receivers in Michael Gallup, andhe's got Cede Lamb. But how many
times have we seen a ball goin and out of CD Lamb's hands.

(18:30):
If that's intercepted, that's not Dak'sfault. My point of view is,
and I'm saying the same thing,be risky with it to a fault.
Don't be overly aggressive with the ball. If you're making piss poor decisions and
you're throwing interceptions, yeah, that'sa cause for concern. But if you

(18:51):
are being aggressive to a fault withinthe offense and not hurting your team,
I am okay with interceptions. Andthat's all I'm trying to say is that
context of the interceptions matter. Oneof the guys that made his team make
the playoffs ten win seasons basically everysingle time he stepped on the field,
but through a lot of interceptions isAndrew Luck. And that is my number

(19:12):
one example for showing that. Youknow, yeah, he did hurt himself
sometimes, hurt his team sometimes,but he was the reason that that team
was succeeding as well as they did. He took a two and fourteen team
and turned it to a ten winseason like this, like this because he
took the risks, calculated risks.He didn't say, do the rewards outweigh

(19:37):
the risk or the risk versus therewards. He said, you know what,
we have a chance to score,we have a chance to move the
ball. I'm throwing it. Ifit gets picked off, I'll know better
for next time. And that's allI'm trying to say. That's fair and
absolutely I understand that one hundred percentcontext matters, and the fact of when
you're having interceptions and what's actually causingthem is more important. The question that

(20:00):
I just I've just struggled to wrapmy head around is just as a quarterback
who's a veteran, who's been aroundsince twenty sixteen, who has consistently failed
in the playoffs. Yes, theymake it there, and I give Dak
Prescott the credit from getting the Cowboysto the playoffs, but as a team
that has consistently failed in getting actualprogress once there, what success are you're

(20:23):
truly finding? You're you're thirty yearsold this year. You just led the
leagues last year in interceptions. Whereare you going? I just don't want
him to go into season saying Ineed to throw lessons. Absolutely, I
do think that that's That's not thatwhat the takeaway should be, but it's
definitely part of the conversation of whendid these happen? How did you get

(20:45):
to these points? Were we takingtoo many chances? Are there times where
you need to think where you needto draw out the play a bit more
in order to see more opportunities,And the way he presented it was,
Hey, I need to throw lessinterceptions. That's not the case. You
need to be more aware of yoursurroundings. With the ball. You need
to play safer with the ball.But that's not to say that you can't

(21:07):
throw interceptions or make aggressive plays whenaggressive plays are needed. But don't go
into a season and play a shellof yourself because you're not going to throw
interceptions. AKA Aaron Rodgers. Sorry, I'm on Aaron Rodgers. Hey,
that's fine. I equivalate to thestart of last year for Patrick Mahomes.
He looked like he was seeing ghostsout there because he seems so afraid to

(21:29):
dump the ball off, And Ithink that that's something that should definitely be
on the table as far as somethingto look for with Dak Prescott. Is
he going to be too invested inthe defensive pressure that he's getting. Is
he gonna be too aware of what'shappening trying not to throw interceptions rather than
taking the chances that he needs tobe taking in order to make sure the
Cowboys have a good season. Realquickly. I'll finish it up on this

(21:51):
because you did bring up Patrick Mahomes. The thing that I saw with him
last year is that Patrick Mahomes,Yeah, he threw more interceptions than he
probably should have. He was alsotrying to evolve his game. So if
you remember, Patrick Mahomes was moreof a get out of the pocket,
extend plays, throw it to Tyreek, Kye's sat down there somewhere. Yep.

(22:11):
He tried to evolve his game,which paid dividends in the long run
obviously, but becomes more of apocket passer and make place within the pocket
and extend them when needed, don'tbail out too early. So a result
of that were the ebbs and flowsof learning something new, you threw interceptions.
So that's why for me, interceptionsare not to be all end all.

(22:34):
They need to context. Patrick Mahomes, he's learning to play a new
style of football. He's not tryingto run around and you know with blind
eyes, Hey, I'm gonna chuckit down there, tyreeks down there somewhere.
Obviously he didn't have Tyreek anymore.But case in point, contexts around
these interceptions matter. I don't wantyou to go into a season telling me
I'm gonna throw less interceptions. Iwant you to go into a season telling

(22:57):
me you're going to be more preparedto take the calculated risks when necessary and
avoid interceptions when necessary. That's allI'm trying to saying you play safe with
the ball. One of the thingsDaniel Jones did last year is he played
safe for with the ball instead offorcing those passes, tucked it and ran.

(23:17):
So there you go. He hadless interceptions, he had less fumbles.
Same thing with Dax. Is heextending to place too much? Is
he trying to force something that's notthere and needs to throw the ball away.
That's something he's got to look at. He's got to ask himself and
ultimately, if he throws ten fifteeninterceptions but they were reasonable interceptions or within

(23:37):
the flow of the game, I'mfine with that. Yeah, And I
think that yes, as you've beensaying that the fact of interceptions shouldn't be
the end all be all. ButI do think they are markers of like
you were saying, growing pains forPatrick Mahomes, They're not something you enjoy
seeing out of your quarterback. They'reobviously missed offensive opportunities. There are negatives
that happen, and they're bad thingsto see for your team, and sometimes

(24:00):
those can end up being a badsign for what your team is doing.
But I don't think that it's thethrow your hands up in the season's overtype
mentality to have. I think thatthey're growing pains. I think that there
are your team is trying to figurestuff out, your quarterbacks, trying to
take chances, and sometimes it's areflection of taking too many yep, and
times where you shouldn't, like JoshAllen for example, and this will be

(24:22):
my last finishing touch. So lastyear, the big thing was Josh Allen's
thrown way too many interceptions, andthat is one hundred percent correct. He's
thrown way too many interceptions in thered zone. Yep. That's the part
that's failed to being mentioned because he'sthrown that many interceptions before the differences.
Last year, it was costing histeam points and he was giving up points

(24:45):
with those interceptions. He was makingbad decisions. So for me, it's
not just the interceptions, because Ican tell you he's thrown that many interceptions
that he did last year and yearsbefore, but we didn't make note of
it for the simple fact that theywere aren't coming in critical, crucial situations.
And that's why I'm saying I don'tcare if you throw interceptions. I

(25:07):
care when you throw the interceptions absolutely. And yeah, that's a great point
to bring up because especially with theway I view interceptions, it's missed opportunities.
Whether it's you know, on aHail Marry drive, you know that
is what it is. But ifyou're someone who's just trying to keep your
offense on the field to keep yourdefense from being worn out, beaten down
as games go on, so muchpressure put on their shoulders, it's tough

(25:33):
to see your team put up massiveamounts of interceptions for the sake of you
are putting that pressure on them.But for Josh Allen in those critical situations,
it's double the negatives. I thinkthat an interceptions a negative. You're
doubling down on that when you're sayingwe could have had points, we could
have had a touchdown. If Ihad played it smarter, it wouldn't have
happened. Look at the Russell Wilsoninterception that will forever haunt his career because

(25:59):
you had Marshaw in the backfield andyou instead you throw it right to Butler
who intercepts and runs it for picksix. All right, listen, that's
more of a product of knowing what'sgoing to happen. Bill Belichick spent a
lot of the week practicing that sameplay, knowing that they could potentially see
it, So putting your players inthe best season to succeed. Now,

(26:22):
for me, I'm not telling youto be Jameis Winson. I'm not telling
you to be Aaron Rodgers. Justfind your spot in between