Die with Zero Pt. 1

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is straight talk from the Housewith certified financial planner Tracy Andton right here
on thirteen ten wui b A.Of course, Tracy comes to us from
Tanton Investment House, a fee onlyfiduciary fiduciary with offices right in Middleton.
Of course you can learn more onlineTanton Investment House dot com. That's spelled
t A N t O N InvestmentHouse dot com. A telephon number for

(00:22):
the office in Middleton six so eightfive zero one fifteen forty nine. That's
six eight five zero one fifteen fournine. And joining us this morning is
certified financial Planner Tracy and toon Tracy, how's your summer going so far?
It's going great, Sean, howabout you? It's going absolutely fantastic and
it's great to talk with you.And I have a pretty good guest.
So we started a conversation last weekand it really got there was a lot

(00:44):
to it. So I'm gonna guesswe may be picking up on that.
So what are we actually going totalk about this week? Am I?
Right? Man? So we're gonnado the second part or part two of
our show featuring the recently published bookDie with Zero, Getting all you can
from your money and your life.And this was written by Bill Perkins.
Perkins represents or presents a thought provokingframework that shifts the focus from maximizing your

(01:07):
net worth to maximizing your net fulfillment. And this book is particularly relevant to
those who have diligently saved throughout theirlives but struggled to spend and enjoy their
resources, often passing away with considerablenet worth. And I like this book
in a way. I don't knowif you can die with zero Sean,

(01:29):
I'm not sure that that's because wedon't know what we're gonna die, right,
But and he doesn't quite give theexact like this is how to book,
But I think why I like itso much as he brings up the
point that we often are the peoplethat save so much, like we worry
and we fear and we go,okay, well, we've got to have
enough for retirement, and sometimes weovershoot that mark, and then when it

(01:53):
comes to spending, we're just soused to accumulating and saving because that's,
you know, really how to bethe good aunt. Right. It's like
it's the ant to the grasshopper.It's like, well, I'm gonna I'm
gonna save and I'm not going tospend. But the reality is is then
people who have a million, twomillion, three million, when they retire,

(02:15):
you know those dollars, they oftendon't spend them. So you know,
in this book, Die with Zero, Perkins outlines strategies to help people
use their assets to the fullest,ensuring they enjoy their lives to the maximum.
So you know, that's kind ofwhat the Investment House is about.
It's not about, you know,how to have as much as you can

(02:36):
in the end, you know.And so I think the goal is good
that he has, which is tocreate memories and experiences that provide lasting fulfillment
rather than simply accumulating wealth for justaccumulating wealth. So I like the book
and I think it's worth a read. And it's and it's interesting that this
is the two parter because it givesfolks, as we talked this week,

(02:58):
an opportunity if you did miss lastweek show, definitely go back and listen.
If you head on over to tAnton Investment House dot com or the
radio station's website, you can actuallylisten back to the podcast. Another great
thing, though, is just kindof going over the outline for today's show
is, if it missed last week'sshow, you're going to get caught up
right away because it's it's a really, really good thing. And Tracy,
as we look at some of theinteresting ideas, let's talk about some of

(03:20):
those areas as far as interesting ideasthat Perkins has created. Well, he
says he compares life experiences to doinglaundry. Kind of makes me laugh.
In fact, actually he said,why don't we pay for someone to do
our laundry? You know? AndI actually a girlfriend who took a class
about just you know, how tomaximize your time, how to be more

(03:44):
efficient and things like that, andshe was saying, you know, would
you do would you have somebody todo your laundry? I said, no,
no, I don't think so.But aside from that, he says,
it's like doing He compares life experiencesto doing laundry. He argues,
at just as you wouldn't wait untilyou have an overwhelming pile of dirty clothes
to do your laundry, you shouldn'twait until later in life to spend your

(04:09):
money on experiences. And it saysthe laundry idea emphasizes the importance of spreading
out your spending and enjoying experiences throughoutyour life rather than postponing mail until a
distant future. And I guess thecentral message here is really to avoid deferring
life's pleasures and meaningful experiences too long. Perkins suggests that people often get caught
in that cycle of working hard,saving money, and planning to enjoy their

(04:31):
wealth some day. However, thisapproach can lead to missed opportunities and less
fulfilling life, and Steady advocates fora balanced approach, you know, where
you invest in experiences at different stagesin your life, creating a rip and
more satisfying existence. And you know, basically we talked about this last time
where you know, going to yourbackpacking when you're you know, twenty years

(04:54):
old is much different than when yougo when you're thirty, so you know,
you can have different kinds of experiences. And I think again really important
you know message there is how howto have these experiences. It doesn't always
cost money to have experiences either,but how do you do that throughout your
life and not just keep you know, waiting and waiting. And we've talked

(05:17):
over and over again about you know, eighties. You know, when people
turn into their eighties, will theybe spending and using the same kind of
dollars. No, they often don't. They don't spend like they used to.
And so you know that's the that'sthe thing, that's the message that
people need to hear. It's uh, it's what those songs say. The

(05:40):
best things in life are free,and sometimes it could be the truth.
Talking this morning with certified financial plannerTracy Anton. Right here on thirteen ten
WI b A the website tantoninvestment Housedot com. That's t A N t
O N investment House dot com.Don't forget. If you're looking for money
management or portfolio management, you canschedule an appointment right online. That websites

(06:00):
tantoninvestment House dot com. Del Phenumber six so eight five zero one,
fifteen forty nine. That's for theoffice right in Middleton. Six oh eight
five zero one, fifteen forty nine. So why does Perkins feel that people
save too much? Well? Iliked this because he's pointing to statistics that
actually I see play out. Hesays, statistics on net worth by age,

(06:20):
you find that most people keep accumulatingwealth for decades and most don't start
spending it until very late in life. So the Employee Benefit Research Institute used
data on older Americans' wealth and they'respending to see how much people's assets changed
during the first twenty years of retirement. On the whole, people are very

(06:42):
slow to spend down their assets andacross ages, whether you're looking at retirees
in their sixties or those in theirnineties, the median ratio of household spending
the household income hovers around one toone, which means that they're spending closely
tracks their income. So as theirincome goes down, they're spending actually goes
down. So people with five hundredthousand or more in assets right before retirement

(07:09):
and spend down, they only spenddown a median of eleven point eight percent
of that money twenty years later,Sean, that's more than that's more than
eighty eight percent left over basically,so yeah, and one third this is
this is a really big one.One third of all retirees actually increase their
assets after retirement. They continue toincrease their wealth. And that's exactly what

(07:31):
I see. And of course,you know, one of the major reasons
is why why this has been sogood in the last several decades is because
stocks have done so well, right, so you know their assets actually have
increased in value for many people becausethey don't spend even what they earned.
So the Perkins makes the point thatpeople who back in their working years would

(07:55):
have said that they were saving upfor retirement, you know, like I'm
just saving for retirement, not actuallyspending those retirement savings once they reach retirement.
Very fascinating stuff. So we talkedthis morning with certified financial planner Tracy
Anton. Right here on thirteen ten, Wuiba mentioned the website Tanton Investment House
dot com. That's t A Nt O N investment House dot com.

(08:16):
Don't forget, we're picking up ona part two of a conversation Die with
Zero. If you missed last week'sprogram, you can always listen back as
well as this show and all theprevious shows at Tanton investment House dot com.
Also, while you're there, ifyou looking for money management portfolio management,
you can schedule apployment right online.Again the website Tanton Investment House dot
com delpha number six oh eight fivezero one fifteen forty nine. That's six

(08:37):
soh eight five zero one fifteen fortynine and Tracy, Why do people spend
less than they can? So,how's that happen? Yeah, it's a
good question. So Perkins points outto the fact that they want, their
wants and needs often change over time. So you've heard of the go go
years, Sean, the slowgo years, and then the no go years.

(08:58):
So when you first retire, you'reexcited about all those experiences that you've put
off, and you still have thehealth typically and now you have the wealth
to do these things. Then adecade later, you're still going, but
probably not as much. You've kindof checked some things off the bucket list,
and you might not have anyone togo with, which is sad.
But I've also seen that where peopleare like, well, I don't you

(09:20):
know my friend that I usually travelwith, you know, isn't able to
travel anymore, or you know,other things. Obviously, but you might
think people spend more money once theyretire. But again, the consumer expenditure
surveyed by the Labor Statistics found intwenty seventeen, that's spending for households headed

(09:41):
by fifty five to sixty four yearsold was sixty five thousand, and the
average spending fell the fifty five thousandfor those sixty five to seventy four,
and then spending fell again to fortytwo thousand for those seventy five and older.
So again the spending decline even thoughthe need for healthcare arose, because

(10:03):
the spending on clothing and entertainment wentdown. So interesting that the client and
spending for those with a million dollarsor more show and assets went down even
more, according to a separate studyby JP Morgan, which analyzed data for
more than five hundred thousand clients.So again, many clients are they're pretty
aware of this that many people whoretire expect, you know, that people

(10:30):
will spend less. Basically, asadvisors, we know this. We can
encourage them to spend, but wejust kind of know the reality of it.
But many people who retired, theyreally expect steady expenditures on experiences from
the day they retire to the daythey die. So they just think,
and I've seen it over and overwhen people are like, well, you
know, we're going to have higherhealthcare costs, they often say that to

(10:52):
me, but they don't take intoconsideration the other expenditures that actually go down
in time. So you know,I just think, again, the reason
you might oversave and underspend is thisfact that, well, I'm gonna need
it, I'm gonna need it later, I'm gonna need it later, and
the reality is now you probably don'tneed it. You're actually you're spending less

(11:13):
as time goes on. It's niceto see some of the numbers back up
some of the behaviors that that you'reseeing as well as we talk with certainly
Yes Yes doga this morning with certifiedfinancial planner Tracy Aton right here thirteen ten
WI be able to talk about someof the other reasons folks may be spending
too little. We'll get the detailsfrom Tracy in just a moment. In
the meantime, you haven't been overto the website, it's a great time

(11:33):
right now check it out. CiteTanton investment House dot com. That's t
A N t o N investment Housedot com. Great website resource to learn
more about Tracy and the team.Also prime opportunity, very easy to schedule
appointment at a time and a daythat's convenient to you. Again, just
head on over to Tanton investment Housedot com. That's t A N t

(11:54):
o N investment House dot com.We're call the office right in middle ten
six soh eight five zero one fifteenforty that's six SO eight five zero one
fifteen four. And we'll continue ourconversation with Tracy. We'll talk more about
some of the reasons why folks mayspend too little. We will do that
next as Straight Talk from the Housecontinues right here on thirteen ten double U
I B A. This is straightTalk from the House with certified financial planner

(12:15):
Tracynton here on thirteen ten doubu IB A. I hope you had a
chance during the break to stop bythe website. If you haven't, head
on over Tantoninvestment House dot com.A lot of great information there, of
course about Tracy and the team.Also links to the podcast Prime Opportunity.
Also, if you're looking for moneymanagemental portfolio management, to conveniently schedule an
appointment right online the website Tanton InvestmentHouse dot com. That's t A N

(12:39):
t O N Investment House dot comand it's aph numer for the office in
Middleton six SO eight five zero onefifteen forty nine. That's six so eight
five zero one fifteen fourty nine.Talking about the book Die with Zero,
getting all you can from your moneyand Light in your life. And Tracy,
we left off that last segment talkingabout why people spend less than they
can, and I've got to guessthat there's there's a number of reasons.

(13:00):
What are some of the other reasonswhy folks typically spend too little? Well,
many people, again do not spendas much as they can because they
are saving for expenses due to oldage, particularly like medical expenses. I
also often hear people say, well, I might need it for the nursing
home. And although nobody likes tothink about that, it's like a big

(13:20):
fear that oftentimes people have. Andyou know, I like to point out
some stats related to that. Forthose over age sixty five, which is
about five point eight million people youknow here that would be considered elderly,
only one point three million actually livein a nursing home, which is only

(13:43):
two point three percent of the elderlypopulation. So the likelihood that you'll go
to a nursing home is low.People like to stay in their home,
they don't want to go, okay, so the likelihood you'll go is very
low, and then the likelihood thatyou'll stay very long is extremely low too.
So the average day in a nursinghome is only one to two years.

(14:03):
So I've seen you know, I'vebeen and been in at this gig
for several decades, and I've seenvery few people go actually to a nursing
home. And if they do go, you know, they usually have resources
that they don't recognize. For example, social Security doesn't stop just because you
go to a nursing home. You'llstill continue to get your sole security.

(14:24):
A lot of people have a pension. Okay, I still have a pension.
Pension plus social Security is now coveringhalf of my nursing home or something
like that. Right, And sothen you talk about your required minimum distribution.
I'm you know, over seventy threeI have to take out my rm
D. Well that's another fifty thousand, you know. You add up all
these numbers, Well that might goto the nursing home, and you're still

(14:46):
not touching your net worth. You'restill not touching your invested s. It's
besides the RMD, which the RMDmaybe is four or five percent, maybe
on average you're getting eight. Soagain, I think these fears are so
big, right, They're like thesebig clouds that sometimes hover. And I
think if you look at it andreally look at the stats. The stats

(15:07):
would suggestion don't need it for anursing home. And if you do,
you have the people who want speakingto our people who have already saved,
they've already have assets, so theyhave dollars. So again, this fear
prevents them from using the dollars thatthey could use, you know, while
they're healthy and want to you know, are able to use the dollars.

(15:28):
Speaking of while you're young and healthy, you used the term before we came
on the air this morning, timebuckets. I want to ask you about
that in just a moment. Inthe meantime, we've been over the website.
Check it out t Anton Investment Housedot com. That's t A N
T O N investment House dot com. Learn more about Tracy. You can
also schedule appointment right on the website. Tracy and the team at t Anton
Investment House self number six eight fivezero one fifteen four nine. So let's

(15:50):
talk about how Perkins then suggests peopleprioritize their experiences throughout their lifetime. Yeah,
it's a great, great question.So Perkins introduces the concept of time
buckets as a strategy to prioritize lifeexperiences and maximize fulfillment throughout a lifetime.
So the idea involves dividing one's lifeinto distinct periods or buckets, each characterized

(16:11):
by experiences and activities best suited forthat stage of life. For instance,
the early years, typically one intheir twenties and thirties, should focus on
physically demanding activities like adventure travel andextreme sports that take advantage of your peak
physical fitness. So the middle yearsfrom say the forties to the sixties are

(16:32):
ideal for experiences that benefit from wisdomand resources, such as extensive travel or
starting a business or pursuing hobbies thatrequire more time and financial stability. And
then later years, typically seventies andonwards, should focus on perhaps maybe less
physically demanding. Maybe you've already donea lot of adventure travel or regular travel
and you're not up for that anymore. So maybe those activities are just spending

(16:56):
more time with family, or youknow, taking the fans on a big
trip, renting a beach house somewhereeven Door County or Chicago. You know,
these trips can be super fun,or engaging in community activities or pursuing
intellectual or artistic you know, interests. So the idea here is basically,

(17:17):
you know, he's writing to everyone, but I feel like the audience I
typically see, you know, isforty fifty, sixty, seventy eighty.
Right, So take your time,bucket, take your time of your life,
and say, buck write down allthe experiences you'd like to still have
in your life and how many howmany times you'd like to have that experience?

(17:37):
Right? I like France. Iwant to go to France. I
don't, I know, but Ido know someone who owns a house in
France, and you know, sheshe loves going to France. She loves
going there. And I said,well, how many more times do you
want to go there? You know? Write it down and then take your
bucket and say, okay, breakyour bucket. You're you're decades up to
the next five years. How manyhow many times do you want to do
that? And in what bucket doyou want to put that? So again,

(18:02):
I think I like his concept ofreally thinking it through and writing it
down because we have a notion whyI want to travel. Okay, there's
a lot of different kinds of travelout there, and when do you want
to do that? And you startrealizing when you look at the decades,
just like I look at the financialplans, how fast the time is going
to go? And when you needor want to do the things you're healthy

(18:26):
now, you need to put itin the bucket today. So again,
by thinking in terms of time buckets, individuals can plan which experiences are best
suited for each stage of life,ensuring that they don't miss opportunities due to
physical or financial constraints later on.And again, this approach also encourages strategic
financial planning to ensure funds are availablefor desired experiences at each stage of life,

(18:48):
which may involve saving more aggressively inearlier years or spending savings to experiences
later. Time buckets promote intentional living, making deliberate choices about time and money
to derived maximum value and satisfaction fromlife experiences, and Perkins warns about the
mindset of continuously deferring enjoyment and experiencesto an indefinite future point as unexpected life

(19:11):
events, health issues, or circumstances. So he even suggested like this app
which was like I don't I thinkthat it was like the death app to
make me laugh, right, butit was like you know, you you
kind of put in there your yourparameters. You know, are you healthy
and you know, do you havethis habit or that habit, And it'll

(19:32):
tell you, well, guess what. It's a countdown. It's like how
many years do you have left?You know, nobody likes thinking about that,
but it really does kind of putit, you know, the onus
on, Well, I got Igot this number of years left? Right.
Yeah. One time I went tothis conference. It was pretty cool,
and they were talking about, youknow, put in you know,
the big buckets, so you know, put in like the big things that

(19:55):
were important to you as big rocks, and then you put and you know,
the smaller rocks, and then youput the sand in right. And
and there are people that you know, they do countdowns for retirement. Well,
some people are counting down and saying, okay, I got this number
of years left, what are thethings that I still want to do?
And another thing I want to throwin there, Sean is I was just

(20:18):
talking to a woman yesterday, andwe've talked many times about this conversation about
some people love their job. Yeah, you know one of them, I
love my job. And so shewas she's seventy five, and she says,
you know, I don't know I'mgonna do Tracy. You know,
I enjoy this, I like this, you know, but there's always a

(20:42):
butt and it's like can you doit forever? You know, can you
do it forever? Probably not.And then the second thing is is is
there anything that you still want todo that because you're doing this, you're
not doing that. So I toldher just try to focus more on what
is it that you want to doyet one are the things and she,

(21:02):
you know, she goes, well, you know, I would I'd like
I think she said she's going toAsia. She's taking a trip to Asia.
Yeah, so she's doing a bigtrip with Rhodes Scholar So that sounded
really fun, and you know,and she said she's meeting the people ahead
of time who's going to be onthis group trip and they've got books to
read and you know, so it'sit's pretty involved. But she's got a

(21:26):
list of all the things she stillwants to do, and I said,
just keep focusing on that, andI think it might make it easier.
But she's she's also tapering down insteadof just quitting cold turkey, which is
also a good idea. You talkabout too, the importance of planning.
As we kind of talk through thisstuff this morning, it's always a great
day to start that conversation and lookfor money management to portfolio management, all

(21:47):
I gotta do is head on overto the website te Antoninvestment House dot com.
From there, ECN schedule appointment ata time and a date that's convenient
to you. Telph number six oheight five zero one fifteen forty nine.
That's six h eight five zero onefifteen nine for the office right in Middleton,
Tracy. Any closing thoughts before wewrap up this week. Well.
Perkins suggests that experiences continue to providevalue over time through the memories they create,

(22:12):
so much like financial dividends provide ongoingreturns on the investments. So when
you invest in experience, you don'tjust enjoy them at the moment, You
also reap the benefit repeatedly as yourecall and reminisce about those experiences throughout your
life. Just to maximize that memorydividend, Perkins advises being intentional about creating

(22:32):
the memorable experience, such as travel, significant life events, time spent with
loved ones, or personal achievements.He says by accumulating a wealth of positive
experiences, individuals create a rich lifenarrative that can be revisited and cherished.
You said, this approach encourages thought, thoughtful spending that prioritize life, you

(22:53):
know, long lasting fulfillment, emphasizingthat money spent and experiences should be seen
as an investment in long term happiness. Unlike material goods, which can lose
their appeal over time, the emotionalvalue of experiences often grows as you reflect
on him, he says. Ultimately, by focusing on accumulating memory dividends,
individuals can ensure that their lives arehealed with moments of joy and significance,

(23:17):
making the journey of life more rewardingand meaningful. So I think if you
get a chance, you know,check out the book. It's it's a
worth a read. It's a quickread. But you know, he makes
he makes some good points about youknow, don't just wait, don't just
wait to use those resources. Andone thing that you should ask your advisor.

(23:38):
And one thing that I was talkingto a client yesterday about he's going
to retire. He's excited about that. I'm excited for him. And he
said and they said, well,we're you know, we're thinking probably four
percent. That's that's the number,right, And I said, well,
I don't know why you wouldn't takefive. Why not take five? You
can use the money, you know, if you want to, because they're

(24:00):
healthy and young, and they're they'regonna travel, they're gonna do some fun
stuff, so you know, talkto your advisor. Don't don't just say
well, this is the minimum Ineed. Maybe maybe stretch the minimum.
You can always pull back if wehave a market correction. You can always
pull back if you need to.On that words to live by and I
love that term memory dividends. Andof course if you've missed any part today's
program or want to get caught up, share the show as well. You

(24:22):
can learn more and of course doall of that right at Tanton investment House
dot com. That's t A NT O N investment House dot com.
And also get to know Tracy inthe team as well as schedule appointment at
a time and a date that's convenientfor you. I get to do this.
Head on over to Tanton Investment Housedot com or pick up phone call
the office right in Middleton six oheight five zero one fifteen forty nine.

(24:42):
That's six oh eight five zero onefifteen forty nine. Tracy, it's always
great hanging out with you. Youenjoy this beautiful day. Thanks Sean.
You two take care,