May 29, 2025 • 13 mins
Tony talks with Bob Mangine from UC and NovaCare on ESPN 1530!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In Station East Coast Subs since e three sixty about
Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part by Pennstation East Coast Subs.
Handcrafted hot grilled subs, fresh cut fries and lemonade. It's
all about good taste. Pennstation East Coast Subs order online today.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome back our three you heard right there, thanks to
our friends at Penn Station. Thank you for listening on
ESPN fifteen thirty. It is Cincinnati's sports station. A good
opportunity here to kick things off in the third hour
with our guy Bob man Jean from Novacare in the
University of Cincinnati, getting us caught up on all of
our injury questions or concerns as he does each and
every week. Bob, what's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
How are you, Tony.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
We're just in the middle of that, getting our players
on campus and wrapping up the transfer poral and it's
that time of year in May where the kids are
all coming back on campus and getting ready to start
our eight week discretionary period.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Discretionary, you say, does that mean voluntary?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Discretionary? Means that the coaches for eight weeks in the
summer have a four hour block where they can work
with the kids on skill development either on the football
field or on the court and actually engage with the kids.
So you know that rule changed about two thousand and three,
(01:29):
two thousand and four, certainly during your tenure here where
we were. You know, eight weeks in the summer usually
start in June first and then taking a week off
before camp. But it's really it's really changed a lot
in the last twenty years with how much the coaches
can engage with the kids.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Before I get into today's topic, coming off a long weekend, Bob,
and as I got into studio this week, I just
saw my guy Austin. He's laboring around the studios today
and all this week, and I can tell that that
his back's really giving them fits. For somebody that's dealing
(02:10):
on an everyday basis with just nagging back pain, what
is your advice to that individual?
Speaker 4 (02:20):
I need help catch my breath here, let me catch
my breath. Adult onset of low back pain is probably
the number one problem in this country, and it revolves
around the fact that people lose their cores as they
get older, meaning their core muscle mature, their abdominals, their
back extensors, they become tighter, their hamstrings, their hip flexers
(02:46):
become tighter over time, and your mechanics change. And generally,
if you go into a stretching program, a light core program,
if you read the literature over six weeks, the pain
usually subsides.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
If the pain's not getting better, or if you have
leg pain, then you really need to get a consult
from somebody. Uh, you know a physical therapist. That there's
a lot of really good, solid physical therapist that do
right back work, you know. And and again, once you
start on an exercise, you've got to stick with it.
My favorite saying about back problems is get it moving,
(03:24):
keep it moving, and never stop moving. You guys, in
your industry, you sit a lot, and it's not a negative.
It's just part of what you have to do. And
the more you sit, the more your core suffers from that.
You get tight your hip flexers, your hamstrings get tight.
And the bottom line is that that sitting actually is
(03:44):
a biomechanical negative. The more you walk, the better you are.
The more you stretch, the better you are. And again,
you got to tighten your core. You got to get
your abdomino's going. You got to get your hip baby
ductor's going, your back extensors, and that's you know, it
takes time, but in general, if you get into a
good mobility routine, a good strengthening core routine, most back
(04:08):
pain absolves with her in about six weeks without a
whole lot of any intervention. I've been a home program,
but people really need to get into and again, especially
if you're an athlete. You know there's a I can't
mention names. If there's a couple of guys in pro
baseball that I'm taking care of what back problems and
once we corrected their core, they were fine. So you know, Austin,
(04:32):
I I I know you have to work with Tony,
which that's.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
A pain that's already carry He's already carrying a lot
from that Bob carund every day.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
But you got to get up and move, Austin, You're
going to get stretch in.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I'm going to stand up right now.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Whenever you if it's not getting better, come on down
and see us.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
All right.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I know I know my way around there alten, so
I could I could take you down there standing up
right now. Stretch it out a little bit, Austin, We'll
tell to you in a few minutes. It's gonna go
over a walk. I'll gonna take a lap, Bob. Last
night in the Reds game, Austin Hayes fout a ball
off his foot pretty hard, and uh X rays after
the game were inconclusive, including according to Terry Francona, let's
(05:17):
just talk about that, the blunt force trauma that can
be a baseball, whether it is a baseball coming in
at ninety five that hits a bat, or whether it's
a line drive coming off a bat that can hit
a pitcher, or a foul ball off the body itself.
What are some things you are looking for as a
trainer when that happens.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Well, you know, look at the speed of the ball.
Who just hit that home run?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Was that Dela Cruz to hit like.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
A one hundred and twenty eight mile an hour?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I mean you're seeing you're seeing one ten, one fifteen
off the back, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Yeah, off the bat, And when that hits a bone
or soft tissue, you've got a big bang.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
And the bottom line is on.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
The foot, there's not a lot of tissue covering those bones,
which is why you know the initial X rays may
be quote unquote inconclusive, and they may have to wait
a couple of days to repeat the X ray or
potentially get other type of testing.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
But you've got.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Nerves that are very superficial. You've got the bone, you've
got the ligaments, you've got the tendons all running, and
the very thin layer of skin on the foot, and
even though you've got a shoe on, that shoe is
not going to absorb a lot of that force. So
the injury is a pretty significant contusion. And you can
(06:34):
even get bone bruising to where the ball hits it,
to the point where the bone actually developed some edema
in it or swelling in it.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
We don't call it swelling but edema.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
And you've got to wait for that to calm down,
and that could come down very quickly, or it could
come down and take its good old time. But usually
you can't get good weight on it, especially if it's
over the mid part of the foot, what we call
the frank area joint of the foot, and that can
be very painful for a picture because they've got to
(07:06):
get that foot on the mound, or they have to
lead with.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
That foot and put it into the grind as.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
They're moving forward and that's a tremendous amount of force.
So I mean again, foot injuries, especially in pictures, can
be nightmares because you've got to get that backfoot pressure
and then you've got to get the fore foot land mechanics.
So you know, some of these depending on what tissue
is actually involved. If you bruise a nerve, they're not happy.
(07:34):
They don't like that, and nerves can sometimes take quite
a while.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
To you know, to get better.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
So but again you may have to wait another day
or two and react ray it, or wait a day
or two and get an MRI or because sometimes the
full the full the magnification of the injury doesn't come
to full fruition until maybe two three days after the
actually injur which, like in your case, you've had some
(08:02):
injuries where.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
You know, we looked at it either.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
The night of the game or the whatever, but then
we waited till Monday or Tuesday to actually get the
X rays.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, if there is a and ideally you don't want
to get hit at all with the ball that's traveling
ninety to one hundred and ten miles an hour, but
if you were to get hit, is there parts of
the body that do offer more protection that you would
feel better, Like if you saw obviously, if you see
someone take one off the foot, you know immediately what
you just discussed, or different parts of the body. Is
(08:31):
there a part of the body you can see a
ball go off where you may be able to take
a little bit more of a sigh of relief because
there is more protection.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Right, I mean you're talking about you know, as a
pitcher's rotating around, if the ball hits them in the
rear end or in the handstring, you know there's a
lot more meat or even some layer of fat protection
from that.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
The scary ones are the ones where they get hit
in the head with the ball because there's no protection there.
And you've had guys who have had cushions from getting
hit with, you know, in the head with the ball.
But again, if you're going to take like an upper
arm over your deltoid, you know you've got some padding
there that it's going to be sure, it's going to
be a soft tissue bruise, but you're not going to
(09:13):
fracture anything. The same thing like in your if you
take it off the hamstring or your quad, you're not
going to fracture your femur, whereas with a foot, you know,
or even the front shinbone Nativia, they you know, you know,
they're exposed. There's not a lot of soft tissue there
to protect you from a ninety mile an hour ball
comer off the bat. So the more the medior, you know,
(09:37):
the the bigger the area, the media or the area,
the better shock absorbancy there is.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
How do you how do you determine, you know, for
for a player that were to get hit in a
game and once to stay in and as you described,
there are sometimes that you don't know the extent of
an injury until the day after or a couple of
days after. So how do you go about making a
decision in that moment for a player to either stay
(10:02):
in or we've seen in the past where a player
may stay in for an inning and then they take
him out of the game after that. How do you
determine the severity if a player should be able to
stay or if they need to be pulled from the game.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Are they healthy enough to protect themselves, meaning can they
get a good enough response and get away from another ball?
Are they functional able to do what their specific position
requires them?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
To do.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
You're going to protect your athlete at that level when
we protect our athletes at this level where you know,
I'm more inclined to pull somebody out of a game
where I think that, you know, the last thing I
want is let them play the game irritated further and
then lose them for two weeks instead of just losing them.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
For a week.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
So, I mean, one of our sports medicine, you know,
medical action is do no harm. So in essence, if
we think further harm is going to occur and they
can't protect themselves functionally, then you got to get them
out of the game. Can't let him, you can't let
him be exposed. And then all of a sudden, a
second episode happens, and then now, all of a sudden,
(11:07):
instead of being a seven day injury, you've got a
twenty one day injury. That doesn't make people very happy. Plus,
these guys are competitive, you know, college players, professional players,
high school players are competitive. They want to go and
our job has to be the be the v o R,
the voice of reason. Hey, you know, let's get out
of the game, let's see what we got. Let's you know,
(11:28):
end today and get ready for tomorrow. So you know,
I really trying to convince my kids too. You know,
I know you're not going to be happy coming out
of the game, but I need you to to not
get worse. So now I lose you for a game
three days from now, you know, because you know baseball
is paying the butt. You know you're you're playing every day,
and so you lose an infield or an outfield that's
(11:51):
your starter, and you lose it for three four weeks
and now all of a sudden, he's missed you know what,
like twenty four games. So you know, the onttom line
is you want to make sure that you're making a
decision to do no harm and can they protect themselves?
And if they can't protect themselves, boom, they're out of
the game.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Bob, you're the best I've seen Austin. Since we've been talking.
He's taken like five laps around the window, so I
know he's consistently walking right now to loosen up that back.
We always appreciate your time, Bob, and look forward to
doing it again next week. Thank you so much, Tony.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
It's always good to talk to you and tell Austin
to keep it moving and don't let it stop.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Bob.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
That is Bob Manjan from the University of Cincinnati and Novacare.
Whether you're dealing with injury or just making your health
a priority, Novacare Rehabilitation is here for you. There's no
better time to make Novacare's movement experts part of your
healthcare team than now. Starting care is easy and for
some may not even require a prescription for physical therapy
from your doctor. To learn more, go to novacare dot com.
Today we are just getting started now number three, plenty
(12:55):
more still to go on. Sincey three to sixty thanks
to ESPN fifteen thirty thanks to penns Station on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
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is like? Loeger today at three oh five on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
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(13:33):
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(13:54):
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In Station East Coast Subs since e three sixty about
Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part by Pennstation East Coast Subs.
Handcrafted hot grilled subs, fresh cut fries and lemonade. It's
all about good taste. Pennstation East Coast Subs order online today.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome back our three you heard right there, thanks to
our friends at Penn Station. Thank you for listening on
ESPN fifteen thirty. It is Cincinnati's sports station. A good
opportunity here to kick things off in the third hour
with our guy Bob man Jean from Novacare in the
University of Cincinnati, getting us caught up on all of
our injury questions or concerns as he does each and
every week. Bob, what's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
How are you, Tony.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
We're just in the middle of that, getting our players
on campus and wrapping up the transfer poral and it's
that time of year in May where the kids are
all coming back on campus and getting ready to start
our eight week discretionary period.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Discretionary, you say, does that mean voluntary?
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Discretionary? Means that the coaches for eight weeks in the
summer have a four hour block where they can work
with the kids on skill development either on the football
field or on the court and actually engage with the kids.
So you know that rule changed about two thousand and three,
(01:29):
two thousand and four, certainly during your tenure here where
we were. You know, eight weeks in the summer usually
start in June first and then taking a week off
before camp. But it's really it's really changed a lot
in the last twenty years with how much the coaches
can engage with the kids.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Before I get into today's topic, coming off a long weekend, Bob,
and as I got into studio this week, I just
saw my guy Austin. He's laboring around the studios today
and all this week, and I can tell that that
his back's really giving them fits. For somebody that's dealing
(02:10):
on an everyday basis with just nagging back pain, what
is your advice to that individual?
Speaker 4 (02:20):
I need help catch my breath here, let me catch
my breath. Adult onset of low back pain is probably
the number one problem in this country, and it revolves
around the fact that people lose their cores as they
get older, meaning their core muscle mature, their abdominals, their
back extensors, they become tighter, their hamstrings, their hip flexers
(02:46):
become tighter over time, and your mechanics change. And generally,
if you go into a stretching program, a light core program,
if you read the literature over six weeks, the pain
usually subsides.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
If the pain's not getting better, or if you have
leg pain, then you really need to get a consult
from somebody. Uh, you know a physical therapist. That there's
a lot of really good, solid physical therapist that do
right back work, you know. And and again, once you
start on an exercise, you've got to stick with it.
My favorite saying about back problems is get it moving,
(03:24):
keep it moving, and never stop moving. You guys, in
your industry, you sit a lot, and it's not a negative.
It's just part of what you have to do. And
the more you sit, the more your core suffers from that.
You get tight your hip flexers, your hamstrings get tight.
And the bottom line is that that sitting actually is
(03:44):
a biomechanical negative. The more you walk, the better you are.
The more you stretch, the better you are. And again,
you got to tighten your core. You got to get
your abdomino's going. You got to get your hip baby
ductor's going, your back extensors, and that's you know, it
takes time, but in general, if you get into a
good mobility routine, a good strengthening core routine, most back
(04:08):
pain absolves with her in about six weeks without a
whole lot of any intervention. I've been a home program,
but people really need to get into and again, especially
if you're an athlete. You know there's a I can't
mention names. If there's a couple of guys in pro
baseball that I'm taking care of what back problems and
once we corrected their core, they were fine. So you know, Austin,
(04:32):
I I I know you have to work with Tony,
which that's.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
A pain that's already carry He's already carrying a lot
from that Bob carund every day.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
But you got to get up and move, Austin, You're
going to get stretch in.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I'm going to stand up right now.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Whenever you if it's not getting better, come on down
and see us.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
All right.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I know I know my way around there alten, so
I could I could take you down there standing up
right now. Stretch it out a little bit, Austin, We'll
tell to you in a few minutes. It's gonna go
over a walk. I'll gonna take a lap, Bob. Last
night in the Reds game, Austin Hayes fout a ball
off his foot pretty hard, and uh X rays after
the game were inconclusive, including according to Terry Francona, let's
(05:17):
just talk about that, the blunt force trauma that can
be a baseball, whether it is a baseball coming in
at ninety five that hits a bat, or whether it's
a line drive coming off a bat that can hit
a pitcher, or a foul ball off the body itself.
What are some things you are looking for as a
trainer when that happens.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Well, you know, look at the speed of the ball.
Who just hit that home run?
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Was that Dela Cruz to hit like.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
A one hundred and twenty eight mile an hour?
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I mean you're seeing you're seeing one ten, one fifteen
off the back, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Yeah, off the bat, And when that hits a bone
or soft tissue, you've got a big bang.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
And the bottom line is on.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
The foot, there's not a lot of tissue covering those bones,
which is why you know the initial X rays may
be quote unquote inconclusive, and they may have to wait
a couple of days to repeat the X ray or
potentially get other type of testing.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
But you've got.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Nerves that are very superficial. You've got the bone, you've
got the ligaments, you've got the tendons all running, and
the very thin layer of skin on the foot, and
even though you've got a shoe on, that shoe is
not going to absorb a lot of that force. So
the injury is a pretty significant contusion. And you can
(06:34):
even get bone bruising to where the ball hits it,
to the point where the bone actually developed some edema
in it or swelling in it.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
We don't call it swelling but edema.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
And you've got to wait for that to calm down,
and that could come down very quickly, or it could
come down and take its good old time. But usually
you can't get good weight on it, especially if it's
over the mid part of the foot, what we call
the frank area joint of the foot, and that can
be very painful for a picture because they've got to
(07:06):
get that foot on the mound, or they have to
lead with.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
That foot and put it into the grind as.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
They're moving forward and that's a tremendous amount of force.
So I mean again, foot injuries, especially in pictures, can
be nightmares because you've got to get that backfoot pressure
and then you've got to get the fore foot land mechanics.
So you know, some of these depending on what tissue
is actually involved. If you bruise a nerve, they're not happy.
(07:34):
They don't like that, and nerves can sometimes take quite
a while.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
To you know, to get better.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
So but again you may have to wait another day
or two and react ray it, or wait a day
or two and get an MRI or because sometimes the
full the full the magnification of the injury doesn't come
to full fruition until maybe two three days after the
actually injur which, like in your case, you've had some
(08:02):
injuries where.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
You know, we looked at it either.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
The night of the game or the whatever, but then
we waited till Monday or Tuesday to actually get the
X rays.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, if there is a and ideally you don't want
to get hit at all with the ball that's traveling
ninety to one hundred and ten miles an hour, but
if you were to get hit, is there parts of
the body that do offer more protection that you would
feel better, Like if you saw obviously, if you see
someone take one off the foot, you know immediately what
you just discussed, or different parts of the body. Is
(08:31):
there a part of the body you can see a
ball go off where you may be able to take
a little bit more of a sigh of relief because
there is more protection.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Right, I mean you're talking about you know, as a
pitcher's rotating around, if the ball hits them in the
rear end or in the handstring, you know there's a
lot more meat or even some layer of fat protection
from that.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
The scary ones are the ones where they get hit
in the head with the ball because there's no protection there.
And you've had guys who have had cushions from getting
hit with, you know, in the head with the ball.
But again, if you're going to take like an upper
arm over your deltoid, you know you've got some padding
there that it's going to be sure, it's going to
be a soft tissue bruise, but you're not going to
(09:13):
fracture anything. The same thing like in your if you
take it off the hamstring or your quad, you're not
going to fracture your femur, whereas with a foot, you know,
or even the front shinbone Nativia, they you know, you know,
they're exposed. There's not a lot of soft tissue there
to protect you from a ninety mile an hour ball
comer off the bat. So the more the medior, you know,
(09:37):
the the bigger the area, the media or the area,
the better shock absorbancy there is.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
How do you how do you determine, you know, for
for a player that were to get hit in a
game and once to stay in and as you described,
there are sometimes that you don't know the extent of
an injury until the day after or a couple of
days after. So how do you go about making a
decision in that moment for a player to either stay
(10:02):
in or we've seen in the past where a player
may stay in for an inning and then they take
him out of the game after that. How do you
determine the severity if a player should be able to
stay or if they need to be pulled from the game.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Are they healthy enough to protect themselves, meaning can they
get a good enough response and get away from another ball?
Are they functional able to do what their specific position
requires them?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
To do.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
You're going to protect your athlete at that level when
we protect our athletes at this level where you know,
I'm more inclined to pull somebody out of a game
where I think that, you know, the last thing I
want is let them play the game irritated further and
then lose them for two weeks instead of just losing them.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
For a week.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
So, I mean, one of our sports medicine, you know,
medical action is do no harm. So in essence, if
we think further harm is going to occur and they
can't protect themselves functionally, then you got to get them
out of the game. Can't let him, you can't let
him be exposed. And then all of a sudden, a
second episode happens, and then now, all of a sudden,
(11:07):
instead of being a seven day injury, you've got a
twenty one day injury. That doesn't make people very happy. Plus,
these guys are competitive, you know, college players, professional players,
high school players are competitive. They want to go and
our job has to be the be the v o R,
the voice of reason. Hey, you know, let's get out
of the game, let's see what we got. Let's you know,
(11:28):
end today and get ready for tomorrow. So you know,
I really trying to convince my kids too. You know,
I know you're not going to be happy coming out
of the game, but I need you to to not
get worse. So now I lose you for a game
three days from now, you know, because you know baseball
is paying the butt. You know you're you're playing every day,
and so you lose an infield or an outfield that's
(11:51):
your starter, and you lose it for three four weeks
and now all of a sudden, he's missed you know what,
like twenty four games. So you know, the onttom line
is you want to make sure that you're making a
decision to do no harm and can they protect themselves?
And if they can't protect themselves, boom, they're out of
the game.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Bob, you're the best I've seen Austin. Since we've been talking.
He's taken like five laps around the window, so I
know he's consistently walking right now to loosen up that back.
We always appreciate your time, Bob, and look forward to
doing it again next week. Thank you so much, Tony.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
It's always good to talk to you and tell Austin
to keep it moving and don't let it stop.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Bob.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
That is Bob Manjan from the University of Cincinnati and Novacare.
Whether you're dealing with injury or just making your health
a priority, Novacare Rehabilitation is here for you. There's no
better time to make Novacare's movement experts part of your
healthcare team than now. Starting care is easy and for
some may not even require a prescription for physical therapy
from your doctor. To learn more, go to novacare dot com.
Today we are just getting started now number three, plenty
(12:55):
more still to go on. Sincey three to sixty thanks
to ESPN fifteen thirty thanks to penns Station on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
And after new nothing but Sport, this mute? What Heaven
is like? Loeger today at three oh five on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
All right, let's be real, no one's getting excited about
buying a roof. It's not like buying season tickets to
watch your favorite team or a shiny new golf club
that's gonna make you and your golf game infinitely better.
A roof is a half too, not a one two.
And when these spring storms roll in and the leaks start,
You're gonna want the pros At Chi Roofing, Rob Montanas
and his team are literally the best in the business,
(13:33):
fair honest. They get it done right the first time.
They give free estimates and you don't owe them a
dime until the job is done. And right now you
can get ten percent off any new roof this spring.
All you need to do call seven three one roof
or visit seven three one roof dot com. Chi Roofing.
They nail it every time. Maxed out on credit cards,
(13:54):
struggle
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