May 31, 2023 • 31 mins
Zac Taylor said the Cincinnati Bengals are counting on Joe Mixon this season, and Mixon's offseason of uncertainty may be reaching its conclusion. We discuss Mixon's future with the team, plus how his cap number, Joe Burrow's extension, and La'el Collins and Jonah Williams may or may not all fit together on the same team. Find and follow Locked On Bengals on your favorite podcast platforms: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-bengals-daily-podcast-on-the-cincinnati-bengals/id1159723162 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7AObc0lh0WmQl5fJVgtajs Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/locked-on-bengals Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5tZWdhcGhvbmUuZm0vbG9ja2Vkb25iZW5nYWxz?sa=X&ved=0CAYQrrcFahcKEwio_sXtj8nuAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQAg James Rapien and Jake Liscow take you inside the Bengals with the latest news, unique analysis, and insight on your favorite team, every day on Locked On Bengals. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network. Your team. Every Day. And follow Jake and James on Twitter, where they'll be sharing the latest news about the Cincinnati Bengals and talking with fans. Jake Liscow: https://twitter.com/JakeLiscow James Rapien: https://twitter.com/JamesRapien Podcast: https://twitter.com/lockedonbengals Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! Built Bar Built Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order. FanDuel Make Every Moment More. Don’t miss the chance to get your No Sweat First Bet up to ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS in Bonus Bets when you go FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
It's the Lockdown Podcast Network, Yourteam every Day. Zach Taylor's press conference
on Tuesday. There are some praisefor Joe Mixon, plus what about low
Collins progress and how does all thisfit in with Joe Burrow's extension coming this
offseason. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast, part
(00:28):
of the Lockdown Podcast Network, yourteam every day. Well up, Bengals
fans, and welcome to another episodeof the Lockdown Bengals podcast. We're part
of the Lockdown Podcast Network, coveringyour team every day. You can subscribe
(00:51):
to this show on YouTube or anywhereyou get your podcasts and to come in
every day or become a first listener. The two lovely little clubs we'd like
to talk about for our regular listenersand those of you who make us your
first listen every day, and todayit's time to revisit the Joe Mixon topic.
James speaking of topics that won't goaway, that keep coming back up
(01:12):
in different ways, much like theoffensive line for the last two years.
We're hitting the regulars today as faras this offseason in the last few years
with the offensive line and Joe Mixonand how these things are all going to
fit together financially with the Joe Burrowextension expected this offseason, but we're gonna
(01:34):
start with Joe. Mix and Jamescame up a little bit in Zach Taylor's
press conference on Tuesday some words ofconfidence in Joe Mixon. When Taylor was
asked about whether he had to talkwith Mixon about all the things that have
been said about his future in mediaand social media this offseason, he one
(01:56):
described their relationship, said we havea good relationship with Joe, praised his
work ethic and said that that wasa big reason why they gave him the
contract. And the contract has beena big talking point right four years forty
eight million dollars a few years ago. Obviously going into this year, we've
talked about it a ton, andI'm not going to shy away from it
(02:16):
now. I personally would not bringJoe Mixon back at the number he's set
to make twelve point six million dollarscap hit over ten million dollars in salary
this year. I would not dothat, and that hasn't changed. But
I think the chances of him beingin town, being on this roster have
(02:37):
certainly increased and there's a variety ofreasons from that. In the part of
the quote that Zach said that standsout to me quote, He's a guy
I enjoy being around, and we'recounting on him. And I think the
we're counting on him part you couldlook at and if you really want to
dive into it, there's a coupleof things. One, we're counting on
(02:59):
him to be the guy we sawin twenty twenty one and be a big
make a big impact on the field, while also having the same impact in
the passing game that he did lastyear at times. And they're also counting
on him off the field, becausepart of the conversation isn't just the contract,
it's the two incidents ones that onethat it still hasn't settled on his
(03:22):
end, charges against him, allegationsagainst him, whatever you want to say.
That's tough. That's tough to whenyou're an aging running back and you
have a big contract and all ofthese things. So I think that there's
still paths to him either taking apay cut or not necessarily being on the
roster, But as of today,I think it's as slim as it's been
(03:47):
those paths, and it feels likehe's going to be on the roster.
It feels like he is going tobe RB one and fine. Now.
Much like Tyler Boyd, who praisedon yesterday's show for his attitude and his
professionalism going into what is a contracthere for him, you need the exact
(04:08):
same out of Joe Mixon, thatsame attitude because this team does have a
shot at winning a Super Bowl,at doing something that Mixon may never have
another chance of doing for the restof his NFL career, and so hopefully
we haven't heard from him, buthopefully he has that mindset. It certainly
sounds like Zach believes he does,and he's been out there on the field
working with the ones, and thefew clips you see, you know,
(04:30):
where Joe Burrows going through a playaction kind of play, you can see
the Joe Mixon's out there with him. He's the one that's the recipient of
those play action fakes, and bymost accounts, the fact that he's there
doing work, and by Zach's quotesand others, he's bringing that attitude to
the football field, which is whatyou would expect and hope a vetteran running
(04:54):
back would do. You know,you have to see what happens with some
of the off field stuff. Thatcould why you didn't get the commitment from
the Bengals earlier in the off seasonto Joe Mixon's future when they were asked
about him. It could be assimple as that, right, It could
be as simple as we don't knowwhat's going to happen with the court case.
We don't know what's going to happenwith the NFL on this stuff,
(05:15):
whether the NFL is going to crackdown, because it's really the word of
Roger Goodell, right, and interms of disciplinary action there, he's an
arbiter in a lot of cases onthat stuff unless it actually goes to an
arbiter. But a lot of theconversation we had about Joe Mixon was when
(05:36):
there were still very clear uses forthat money, and there still are to
be clear, like if they wantedto go sign Dalton Risner, who a
lot of people have talked about,who we've talked about, who's still one
of the most prominent free agents outthere. As a bunch of teams are
about to get a bunch of Juneone cap space, you're probably listening to
(05:59):
this episode on June first, orlate on May thirty first, So the
Bengals still could use that money asother teams were about to get cap space
as well if they chose to makean external move. But at this point
it doesn't make as much sense.Like you said, James, that the
paths to Joe Mixon not being onthe team are fewer, They're they're harder
(06:24):
to find, and part of thatis the replacement for those snaps. Part
of it is where would the moneygo and how does that puzzle fit together
from a cap space perspective, froma cash spend perspective. But at this
point it seems, you know,judging from the quotes in the situation and
(06:45):
all the context, that yeah,it's going to be Joe Mixon. Now
whether there will be a pay cutwill be interesting. And watching Dalvin Cook's
situation in Minnesota transpire and go throughsome of the same sort of conversations is
an interesting parallel to watch as well. It is same draft class. Cook
has been more productive. But Ithink that you know, you could compare
(07:08):
their careers and all of those things. Aging running backs, They've dealt with
some injuries, all of those things, and so yes, I could see
that in just looking at it twelvepoint seven million dollars cap hit, set
to make over ten million bucks cashwise. If you want to look at
it that way, do you thinkdo you buy or sell that they'll bring
(07:29):
him back at this number today?If you had to guess, and look,
we've speculated on all all the spectrums, this might be dead row.
But would you buy that that they'rejust going to keep Joe Mixon at what
he's set to make, or wouldyou sell that and think that they bring
him back at a lower number.I think that it's probably more likely between
bringing him back at his current numberor some incentive laden deal that reduces the
(07:56):
cap hit but gives him the opportunityto still make that money. We've talked
about that if you time time,and I think that if they do rework
his contract, that's a pretty likelypath they could take, right, but
the money kind of works even ifthey don't rework his deal. So what's
(08:16):
something that we've talked about with theBengals. Although this isn't necessarily true anymore,
but people love to bring up.You know, they pay out the
contracts, they respect the contracts.It's not necessarily true. They cut a
lot of guys in the last fewyears before the end of their contracts,
but I could I think I couldbuy that they keep him at his current
number and then next years when theymake a change. Next year, it
(08:37):
makes a much bigger difference from acat perspective, and I think they can
make everything work financially at the currentnumber, but would be far from surprise
if they rework it with incentives.I have a theory that I want to
run by you about this, andwe're going to get to the offensive line,
but I have a theory I wantto run by you about Joe Mixon
and about what Zach Taylor said,because it wasn't just on Tuesday. Praised
(09:00):
them after the draft, has beenvery complimentary really throughout the offseason. So
let me run that by you.Coming up next, But today's show is
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(10:48):
every day, James, you havea theory before we talk about the financial
puzzle and the offensive line and allthe extensions. So what's the theory that's
Jack Taylor is saying. Man,Joe, we love you. You are
the man, and I'm not I'mgonna be honest with you. Came up
with this theory about five minutes ago. Yeah, you're the man. We're
(11:13):
relying on you. We believe inyou, we love that you're a part
of this team. There's a reasonwe gave you that money a few years
ago. And yet, and thiswouldn't necessarily be Zach saying this. We
need you to do us a solid. We need you, We've stuck by
you, and we want you tobe a big part of this team and
(11:35):
be the starter and be a bigpart of the super Bowl contender that we
have. But and there's the butt. We want you to take a pay
cut. I don't think it's premeditatedwith Zach. I don't think he's necessarily
involved in that part of it,but I could totally feel the the psychology
(11:56):
behind it of making sure Joe feelshe's valued because of what the outside world
is saying. Running back values don'tmatter because you know that you're going to
ask him at some point to takea pic cut, especially because they didn't
take a running back early. Theydidn't resign some JP rhyme, so it's
cutting him makes them worse. Now. I think we can agree there,
(12:20):
So really make him feel wanted,so you can say, look, we
want you to do, do youdo us the solid and ask for a
favor. I could see it.I'm not saying that's what Zach's doing.
Would not shock me though. Ifthat happens, if you I mean,
yeah, it wouldn't be because Zachis doing this right, that would be
so out of character for Zach Taylor. Duke is like, hey, man,
(12:43):
really play up to a tell himhow much you love him. That
would be that's not it's not sofar outside like based on everything we know
about Zach Taylor. Right Zach's walkinginto his press conference, Katie winks at
him like, hey, you gotthis. That would be some next level
stuff. It's a joke that didn'thappen. By the way, Joe Mixon
(13:05):
didn't come up until the last questionof the press conference when when Joe Daniman
brought him up. So, Imean, it was way late. So
unless they play him that out,it would have been which didn't happen.
But I do think that the praisepart of it, the psychology part of
it, I do think that thatcould be be in play a little bit.
Not that that's what Zach sang,but it's like, all right,
(13:28):
well, don't don't rip Joe Mixon. Don't have one of these situations where
you're saying, well, if he'son the roster, if if if just
be very blunt about it, andyou know, we'll see where he's at.
Because I think that's if I hadto put a bet on it,
I would still say that they wouldask him to take a pay cut or
(13:50):
rip up his deal and completely changehis deal. Would not shock me.
Yeah, I think that the incentiveidea that we've talked about quite a bit
makes a lot of sense. Andyou're right, there has been a bit
of a shift, right like theysaw they see this stuff. Mean.
Zach referenced to a Twitter a viraltweet with LEL Collins shoving do you remember
(14:11):
the guy's name, the staffer's name, I can find it, Zach shouted
him out. I mean, they'rethey're aware of what's happening in social media.
They're where that they've their language getspicked apart and all the if and
you know right now, stuff thatthat got cut cut apart in quotes they've
(14:33):
seen all Roberto. Roberto is doinggreat, he's fully healthy. Roberto Cardona
Cardona. Yeah, Um, Iknew it too, I forgot and he
specifically saw that, right. Soso the change in language is probably a
reaction to coverage. Right. Theydon't want this to be a story.
They don't want it to be afocus, and especially with the draft going
(14:56):
the way it did, Joe Mixon, like you said, if he's on
the team, the Bengals are worse. It's time to shift the language.
And it makes sense that they've doneso. And I'm surprised, James that
your three didn't have anything to dowith Ezekiel Elliott. We've talked about running
back for fifteen minutes and you haven'tmentioned Zeke's name once. I would suck.
Look, there's a lot of timeswhere the Bengals do stuff I wouldn't
(15:18):
do and vice versa, and Ithink I must Zeke wants the world.
I'm not going to give you theworld, my man, you know.
But J p Ryan type deal.Yeah, because I think he can be
Sam J p Ran But he mightnot be willing to do that because he's
a big star. He also wellmight not be interested in super Bowls because
he's not winning one in Dallas.If he goes back there, could get
(15:41):
to one. The NFC is Nah, it's Dallas. Yeah, too much
going on there. Dallas has wonfive Super Bowls. I guess they were
a long time ago. Now,a long time ago. It's a completely
different culture, completely different. It'shard. Man. We can't praise the
Bengals for having great culture. Thisisn't a Cowboys thing for having great culture
and then that happening. I mean, you have your owner talk every week.
(16:06):
That's a lot. Imagine Mike Browntalking every week. Let's just say
I don't think their players love it. And if you could pencil it together,
I would have firsthand knowledge of that. All right, if you pencil
if you pencil it together, right, what does pencil it together? I
mean put it together, put ittoply together. Yeah, think about think
(16:26):
about who knows what it's like toplay for Jerry Jones. Huh, yeah,
I can think of it. Iwasn't talking about t J houshmnzata.
Go ahead, Jake, let's talkabout Let's talk about Jackson Carman, who
also hasn't played for Jerry Jones.Yeah. Well, we'll piece together the
financial picture. And there have beenand has been speculation and comments about the
(16:55):
future of Bell Collins and Jonah Williams, and can both guys be on the
roster with the financial expenditure on OrlandoBrown this year and our Blando Brown in
the future, with the Joe Burrowextension coming potentially, with the T.
Higgins extension coming potentially, with theWigan Wilson extension coming, does it all
fit? Especially with Joe Mixon stillon the roster at his current number.
(17:21):
What does that mean about these offensivelineman. We'll get into that to finish
up the show. Coming up next. It was win or go home in
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(17:41):
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(18:26):
All right, Jake, let's diveinto the offensive line questions, because I
think that there are some out therethat see what Jackson Carmen did in the
Divisional round against the Bills at lefttackle. They see him out there now
and he's trimmed down, appears tobe more mature, certainly more dedicated.
Was young coming into the league.It's only year three and they say,
(18:48):
all right, not only is hemore mature, but he seems better suited
for tackle. He looks like he'sin pretty good shape. Try him at
right tackle. And yet you haveLele Collins looking pretty darn good in his
rehab. Still not there, butpretty good. Was walking onto the field
with his cleats the other day,so he's certainly working and building towards a
(19:11):
return with Bengals trainer Nick Cosgrey leadingthe way. And then you have the
Joanah Williams factor, where I thinkhis Q score is about as low as
any Bengals player has been in afew years, certainly during this run,
and he's the highest he's the highestpaid of the three, but we haven't
(19:32):
seen him. Some assume he's stilldisgruntled. I don't think that's the case.
I think he's just working hard byhimself. And you have twelve point
six million dollars guaranteed to him.So there's three guys one starting spot.
One guy's actually cheap. Would saywould be a value if he did end
(19:53):
up becoming the starter in Jackson CarmenLal Collins TBD because of the injuries and
everything like that, and then Jonahif he plays up to his level,
I think it's worth it up tohis best level that we've seen in the
NFL, But it doesn't feel goodhaving to owe him twelve point six million
dollars. Yeah, it's it's alot to fit together with Elsie seemingly being
(20:18):
ahead of schedule with limited spots forthese guys to play. Like, if
Jonah and Elsie are on the team, where are they playing? Are they
actually talking about somebody playing left guard? Is one of those guys in the
mix with the Lord L Wilson,I'll tell you now, because that's been
a lot of speculation. No whenof the Bengals ever, Like, honestly,
(20:41):
we've talked about Jonah moving for yearsand it took Orlando Brown Junior calling
them willing to take a rate thatwas way less than anyone expected and them
saying, heck, yeah, wewant you to play left tackle for them
to move Jonah. Like, Iwould be shocked if one of those guys
was in the running at left guardwith the healthy Cordell. Yeah, it
(21:03):
would be surprising. I mean,at least one of them has professional experience
a guard in LC and so ifanyone would do it, you know,
at least he's played, you know, at a starting level on the inside,
but it's it's not going to Imean, the world where is Jackson
(21:26):
Carmen in week one is a worldwhere neither of those guys is playing right
tackle and because they're not available forsome reason. Right like that, that's
pretty straightforward. But the interesting thingis is making it work from a financial
perspective. Right because Joe Burrow's extension, well, how does that impact the
(21:49):
cap this year? It depends onthe structure. And this is why the
structure of these contracts is so interesting. Even though Duke Tobin is surprised that
we care about the contract details inthe media and as fans. If you
remember that quote from Duke Tobin afew months ago, and I wish I
had the exact quote, but hesaid something about it. I'm surprised that
(22:11):
people care about the contract details andstructure. But burrows cap hit, even
after an extension, depending on theway they do, it could barely go
up in twenty twenty three. He'scurrently scheduled to have a cap hit this
year of eleven and a half milliondollars according to over the Cap, and
(22:36):
that number could go up maybe seveneight million dollars. And even if it
does that still leaves the Bengals withenough cap space to deal with all their
practice squad stuff, to deal withthe little bit of cushion they want to
have to deal with injuries in theseason. It could go up a little
(22:56):
bit more than that, depending onthe structure, but they can technically afford
their entire roster as is, evenwith the Joe Burrow extension that adds seven
or eight million dollars to his caphit this year. If that's the case,
so they could keep all those guys. They could say, you know,
(23:19):
we want this really good experienced tackledepth, and they could have it
now. If they also had at Higgins extension and that adds a little
bit to his cap hit this year, probably add a little bit more because
he's a second round pick, sothe contracts a little bit smaller, so
that signing bonus is going to getpro rated into the first year of the
deal. This year would be alittle bit of a bigger delta, bigger
(23:42):
change. So once you start talkingabout Logan Wilson T Higgins extensions as well,
that's where money can start to gettight. But if Joe Burrows the
only one that gets done, thenthey could still have seven eight million dollars
a cat space and that would bean for everything else that they need to
pay for. Yeah, I wouldbe shocked. I would still be shocked
(24:07):
if they just kind of went businessas usual, just added on a Borough
extension, and that might be theonly extension that gets done. It might
be because if you're the Bengals,you've just extended Jermaine Pratt. I don't
know how all in you are ongetting Logan Wilson done this offseason. If
you can't get t done with JamarChase looming with a bunch of other guys
(24:32):
that we should talk about at somepoint, and their future is potentially staying
or going. DJ Reader is certainlyone of those guys. It is it
worth spending this money knowing you canpush it to the future, push some
of that space, push some ofthat room and roll it over and use
it next year on guys like that. And so man, I think in
(24:56):
a perfect world, perfect world,Jake Laal Collins, they would continue to
heal him, and Nick Cosgray wouldcontinue to heal him with his magical powers
that worked with Joe Burrow and haveworked with a bunch of guys, right,
they would have him show that he'sready to go. Something happens in
(25:18):
camp where they can shed Jonah's moneyand Joe Mixon takes a pay cut,
where all of the things happen right, there was a trade Jonah and keep
Joe, move on from Joe andkeep all of those things. In a
perfect world, you're shedding all thatsalary, I think, And in lel
is the guy that you hoped youwere getting a few years last year when
(25:41):
you signed him, and obviously hedealt with some injuries. I'm not sure
if all of those things happened,I think they could. I guess you
could say an ideal world would alsobe Jonah Williams just as the best year
of his career at right tackle fortwelve point six million dollars. You would
take that all day long. Ifthat's what ended up happening. As well,
(26:02):
I think it comes down to wejust we don't know. There's so
many questions, and yet I keepcoming to It's hard for me to envision
Jackson Carmen being the starting right tackleunless something went wrong where Lao looks good.
So they moved Jonah because they getoffered more than they think that they
(26:22):
were going to and then Lao hasa setback or gets dinged up or one
of those things. So the peoplethat feel good about Carmen, that's great
because then you feel pretty good aboutthe tackle depth because odds are I think
he'll be a backup even if theydid move on from Jonah at some point
during the during camp, but Idon't think they will. I think ultimately
he'll be the starting right tackle.Yeah, and I think with Carmen,
(26:48):
I think he probably has some workto do again, because again you're asking
to learn a new position. AndI know when they drafted him, I
study played left tackle like a rightguard, didn't really work out at right
guard, was better at left tackle, playing again like a right guard,
still still playing the same way stylistically, so maybe you know he handles the
(27:11):
transition better to the other side thistime. He practiced there. He practiced
there, but he's never played there, to your point, and he's talked
about the difficulty in making the switchfrom one side to the other. And
in the few clips we've seen ofhim working at tackle with Orlando Brown,
you see Frank Polla giving him someextra work, some extra words of advice,
(27:33):
and some extra corrections. So itdoes seem like there's a little bit
of work, maybe a lot ofwork for him to do to figure out
that position swap again to right tackle. It's not like it was perfect at
left tackle either. You know,he had a couple solid performances in the
postseason. But you're right, Ithink the ideal is either Elsie's healthy and
(27:56):
plays like he did in his peak, which what do you think, like
fifteen percent? You get something likethat, maybe ten percent, I mean
even something approaching his peak, notterribly likely given his injury issues. But
if he's healthy, maybe some ofthat stuff is mitigated quite a bit,
right, and if he can stayhealthy, if he can keep his body
(28:18):
right. The other one is JonahWilliams, like you said, playing as
well as you've ever seen Jonah play, and then you have two pretty good
tackles. Right. Either way,you're hoping that one of those two guys
steps up and plays as well asthey've played in their career at some point,
and that Jackson Carmen can continue togrow because likely, I mean,
they do have Elsie under contract nextyear, but you might need a new
(28:41):
starter next year, and if JacksonCarman is ready to do that next year,
in a contract year, great,then you don't need to immediately go
out and spend a resource on thatposition. But for this year, which
is obviously the focus right now,you're hoping one of those two guys,
just two veterans can go play likewe've seen them play in the NFL at
some point, which is pretty good, and Carmen can be your your swing
(29:03):
tackle. You're right, and thenyou'd feel good about that as well.
I mean, you saw him stepin last year and be passable, and
I think he's better now than hewas eight months ago, seven months ago,
So we'll see. Obviously it waswhat four months ago when he slid
in there, a little less thanfour months, but yeah, we'll see
the as the world turns. JakeLESCo, we know a lot, but
(29:26):
there's plenty we don't know. Andthat right tackle spot up for grabs.
And then Joe Mixon future certainly interesting. I think they asked him to take
a pick up, that would bemy guess. They just they massage to
him. I'm on board with mytheory now that they were massaging the ego
of Joe. Everyone hates you,Joe, all of those things. You
are the best. We want youto take an incentive, Layden deal.
(29:51):
If it happens. If it happens, we can come back to this episode.
You're the first person to say it. You've got the the connect the
dots working today. Okay, never, that's gonna do it for this episode
of the Lockdow Bengals podcast. We'llbe back for one more episode this week.
That'll be a mail bag. Keepan eye out on May thirty,
(30:14):
first evening at locked on Bengals onTwitter to get your questions in if you
miss it on the evening of Maythirty first, get your questions. And
on the morning of June first andwe'll get your questions into our next episode.
Until then, Bengals fans, thanksfor listening two day and have a
good one. It was win orgo home in Boston on Monday night in
(30:34):
the Miami Heat. Didn't want togo home, knocking off the Boston Celtics
to advance to the NBA Finals.There was a team that was mentally tough,
ready for the challenge, ready fora battle, and then there was
the Boxes Celtics. The Vegas GoldenNights are headed to the Stanley Cup Final
after taking Game six in the WesternConference Final and convincing fashion. This time,
(30:56):
We're not here just to be here. I felt like season one,
we were cool about being here,but you know, it feels like the
mission is not over. Us andLiam Hendricks returned to the mound for the
Chicago White Sox after a battle withnon Hodgkins lymphoma. Welcome back, Liam
Hendricks emotional moment. They didn't evengo to commercial break when Heat came into
(31:17):
the game, out of the dugout. For more on these stories, check
out new episodes of Locked On Heat, Locked On Golden Knights, and Locked
on White Sox, offering available whereveryou get podcast
It's the Lockdown Podcast Network, Yourteam every Day. Zach Taylor's press conference
on Tuesday. There are some praisefor Joe Mixon, plus what about low
Collins progress and how does all thisfit in with Joe Burrow's extension coming this
offseason. You are Locked on Bengals, your daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast, part
(00:28):
of the Lockdown Podcast Network, yourteam every day. Well up, Bengals
fans, and welcome to another episodeof the Lockdown Bengals podcast. We're part
of the Lockdown Podcast Network, coveringyour team every day. You can subscribe
(00:51):
to this show on YouTube or anywhereyou get your podcasts and to come in
every day or become a first listener. The two lovely little clubs we'd like
to talk about for our regular listenersand those of you who make us your
first listen every day, and todayit's time to revisit the Joe Mixon topic.
James speaking of topics that won't goaway, that keep coming back up
(01:12):
in different ways, much like theoffensive line for the last two years.
We're hitting the regulars today as faras this offseason in the last few years
with the offensive line and Joe Mixonand how these things are all going to
fit together financially with the Joe Burrowextension expected this offseason, but we're gonna
(01:34):
start with Joe. Mix and Jamescame up a little bit in Zach Taylor's
press conference on Tuesday some words ofconfidence in Joe Mixon. When Taylor was
asked about whether he had to talkwith Mixon about all the things that have
been said about his future in mediaand social media this offseason, he one
(01:56):
described their relationship, said we havea good relationship with Joe, praised his
work ethic and said that that wasa big reason why they gave him the
contract. And the contract has beena big talking point right four years forty
eight million dollars a few years ago. Obviously going into this year, we've
talked about it a ton, andI'm not going to shy away from it
(02:16):
now. I personally would not bringJoe Mixon back at the number he's set
to make twelve point six million dollarscap hit over ten million dollars in salary
this year. I would not dothat, and that hasn't changed. But
I think the chances of him beingin town, being on this roster have
(02:37):
certainly increased and there's a variety ofreasons from that. In the part of
the quote that Zach said that standsout to me quote, He's a guy
I enjoy being around, and we'recounting on him. And I think the
we're counting on him part you couldlook at and if you really want to
dive into it, there's a coupleof things. One, we're counting on
(02:59):
him to be the guy we sawin twenty twenty one and be a big
make a big impact on the field, while also having the same impact in
the passing game that he did lastyear at times. And they're also counting
on him off the field, becausepart of the conversation isn't just the contract,
it's the two incidents ones that onethat it still hasn't settled on his
(03:22):
end, charges against him, allegationsagainst him, whatever you want to say.
That's tough. That's tough to whenyou're an aging running back and you
have a big contract and all ofthese things. So I think that there's
still paths to him either taking apay cut or not necessarily being on the
roster, But as of today,I think it's as slim as it's been
(03:47):
those paths, and it feels likehe's going to be on the roster.
It feels like he is going tobe RB one and fine. Now.
Much like Tyler Boyd, who praisedon yesterday's show for his attitude and his
professionalism going into what is a contracthere for him, you need the exact
(04:08):
same out of Joe Mixon, thatsame attitude because this team does have a
shot at winning a Super Bowl,at doing something that Mixon may never have
another chance of doing for the restof his NFL career, and so hopefully
we haven't heard from him, buthopefully he has that mindset. It certainly
sounds like Zach believes he does,and he's been out there on the field
working with the ones, and thefew clips you see, you know,
(04:30):
where Joe Burrows going through a playaction kind of play, you can see
the Joe Mixon's out there with him. He's the one that's the recipient of
those play action fakes, and bymost accounts, the fact that he's there
doing work, and by Zach's quotesand others, he's bringing that attitude to
the football field, which is whatyou would expect and hope a vetteran running
(04:54):
back would do. You know,you have to see what happens with some
of the off field stuff. Thatcould why you didn't get the commitment from
the Bengals earlier in the off seasonto Joe Mixon's future when they were asked
about him. It could be assimple as that, right, It could
be as simple as we don't knowwhat's going to happen with the court case.
We don't know what's going to happenwith the NFL on this stuff,
(05:15):
whether the NFL is going to crackdown, because it's really the word of
Roger Goodell, right, and interms of disciplinary action there, he's an
arbiter in a lot of cases onthat stuff unless it actually goes to an
arbiter. But a lot of theconversation we had about Joe Mixon was when
(05:36):
there were still very clear uses forthat money, and there still are to
be clear, like if they wantedto go sign Dalton Risner, who a
lot of people have talked about,who we've talked about, who's still one
of the most prominent free agents outthere. As a bunch of teams are
about to get a bunch of Juneone cap space, you're probably listening to
(05:59):
this episode on June first, orlate on May thirty first, So the
Bengals still could use that money asother teams were about to get cap space
as well if they chose to makean external move. But at this point
it doesn't make as much sense.Like you said, James, that the
paths to Joe Mixon not being onthe team are fewer, They're they're harder
(06:24):
to find, and part of thatis the replacement for those snaps. Part
of it is where would the moneygo and how does that puzzle fit together
from a cap space perspective, froma cash spend perspective. But at this
point it seems, you know,judging from the quotes in the situation and
(06:45):
all the context, that yeah,it's going to be Joe Mixon. Now
whether there will be a pay cutwill be interesting. And watching Dalvin Cook's
situation in Minnesota transpire and go throughsome of the same sort of conversations is
an interesting parallel to watch as well. It is same draft class. Cook
has been more productive. But Ithink that you know, you could compare
(07:08):
their careers and all of those things. Aging running backs, They've dealt with
some injuries, all of those things, and so yes, I could see
that in just looking at it twelvepoint seven million dollars cap hit, set
to make over ten million bucks cashwise. If you want to look at
it that way, do you thinkdo you buy or sell that they'll bring
(07:29):
him back at this number today?If you had to guess, and look,
we've speculated on all all the spectrums, this might be dead row.
But would you buy that that they'rejust going to keep Joe Mixon at what
he's set to make, or wouldyou sell that and think that they bring
him back at a lower number.I think that it's probably more likely between
bringing him back at his current numberor some incentive laden deal that reduces the
(07:56):
cap hit but gives him the opportunityto still make that money. We've talked
about that if you time time,and I think that if they do rework
his contract, that's a pretty likelypath they could take, right, but
the money kind of works even ifthey don't rework his deal. So what's
(08:16):
something that we've talked about with theBengals. Although this isn't necessarily true anymore,
but people love to bring up.You know, they pay out the
contracts, they respect the contracts.It's not necessarily true. They cut a
lot of guys in the last fewyears before the end of their contracts,
but I could I think I couldbuy that they keep him at his current
number and then next years when theymake a change. Next year, it
(08:37):
makes a much bigger difference from acat perspective, and I think they can
make everything work financially at the currentnumber, but would be far from surprise
if they rework it with incentives.I have a theory that I want to
run by you about this, andwe're going to get to the offensive line,
but I have a theory I wantto run by you about Joe Mixon
and about what Zach Taylor said,because it wasn't just on Tuesday. Praised
(09:00):
them after the draft, has beenvery complimentary really throughout the offseason. So
let me run that by you.Coming up next, But today's show is
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(10:48):
every day, James, you havea theory before we talk about the financial
puzzle and the offensive line and allthe extensions. So what's the theory that's
Jack Taylor is saying. Man,Joe, we love you. You are
the man, and I'm not I'mgonna be honest with you. Came up
with this theory about five minutes ago. Yeah, you're the man. We're
(11:13):
relying on you. We believe inyou, we love that you're a part
of this team. There's a reasonwe gave you that money a few years
ago. And yet, and thiswouldn't necessarily be Zach saying this. We
need you to do us a solid. We need you, We've stuck by
you, and we want you tobe a big part of this team and
(11:35):
be the starter and be a bigpart of the super Bowl contender that we
have. But and there's the butt. We want you to take a pay
cut. I don't think it's premeditatedwith Zach. I don't think he's necessarily
involved in that part of it,but I could totally feel the the psychology
(11:56):
behind it of making sure Joe feelshe's valued because of what the outside world
is saying. Running back values don'tmatter because you know that you're going to
ask him at some point to takea pic cut, especially because they didn't
take a running back early. Theydidn't resign some JP rhyme, so it's
cutting him makes them worse. Now. I think we can agree there,
(12:20):
So really make him feel wanted,so you can say, look, we
want you to do, do youdo us the solid and ask for a
favor. I could see it.I'm not saying that's what Zach's doing.
Would not shock me though. Ifthat happens, if you I mean,
yeah, it wouldn't be because Zachis doing this right, that would be
so out of character for Zach Taylor. Duke is like, hey, man,
(12:43):
really play up to a tell himhow much you love him. That
would be that's not it's not sofar outside like based on everything we know
about Zach Taylor. Right Zach's walkinginto his press conference, Katie winks at
him like, hey, you gotthis. That would be some next level
stuff. It's a joke that didn'thappen. By the way, Joe Mixon
(13:05):
didn't come up until the last questionof the press conference when when Joe Daniman
brought him up. So, Imean, it was way late. So
unless they play him that out,it would have been which didn't happen.
But I do think that the praisepart of it, the psychology part of
it, I do think that thatcould be be in play a little bit.
Not that that's what Zach sang,but it's like, all right,
(13:28):
well, don't don't rip Joe Mixon. Don't have one of these situations where
you're saying, well, if he'son the roster, if if if just
be very blunt about it, andyou know, we'll see where he's at.
Because I think that's if I hadto put a bet on it,
I would still say that they wouldask him to take a pay cut or
(13:50):
rip up his deal and completely changehis deal. Would not shock me.
Yeah, I think that the incentiveidea that we've talked about quite a bit
makes a lot of sense. Andyou're right, there has been a bit
of a shift, right like theysaw they see this stuff. Mean.
Zach referenced to a Twitter a viraltweet with LEL Collins shoving do you remember
(14:11):
the guy's name, the staffer's name, I can find it, Zach shouted
him out. I mean, they'rethey're aware of what's happening in social media.
They're where that they've their language getspicked apart and all the if and
you know right now, stuff thatthat got cut cut apart in quotes they've
(14:33):
seen all Roberto. Roberto is doinggreat, he's fully healthy. Roberto Cardona
Cardona. Yeah, Um, Iknew it too, I forgot and he
specifically saw that, right. Soso the change in language is probably a
reaction to coverage. Right. Theydon't want this to be a story.
They don't want it to be afocus, and especially with the draft going
(14:56):
the way it did, Joe Mixon, like you said, if he's on
the team, the Bengals are worse. It's time to shift the language.
And it makes sense that they've doneso. And I'm surprised, James that
your three didn't have anything to dowith Ezekiel Elliott. We've talked about running
back for fifteen minutes and you haven'tmentioned Zeke's name once. I would suck.
Look, there's a lot of timeswhere the Bengals do stuff I wouldn't
(15:18):
do and vice versa, and Ithink I must Zeke wants the world.
I'm not going to give you theworld, my man, you know.
But J p Ryan type deal.Yeah, because I think he can be
Sam J p Ran But he mightnot be willing to do that because he's
a big star. He also wellmight not be interested in super Bowls because
he's not winning one in Dallas.If he goes back there, could get
(15:41):
to one. The NFC is Nah, it's Dallas. Yeah, too much
going on there. Dallas has wonfive Super Bowls. I guess they were
a long time ago. Now,a long time ago. It's a completely
different culture, completely different. It'shard. Man. We can't praise the
Bengals for having great culture. Thisisn't a Cowboys thing for having great culture
and then that happening. I mean, you have your owner talk every week.
(16:06):
That's a lot. Imagine Mike Browntalking every week. Let's just say
I don't think their players love it. And if you could pencil it together,
I would have firsthand knowledge of that. All right, if you pencil
if you pencil it together, right, what does pencil it together? I
mean put it together, put ittoply together. Yeah, think about think
(16:26):
about who knows what it's like toplay for Jerry Jones. Huh, yeah,
I can think of it. Iwasn't talking about t J houshmnzata.
Go ahead, Jake, let's talkabout Let's talk about Jackson Carman, who
also hasn't played for Jerry Jones.Yeah. Well, we'll piece together the
financial picture. And there have beenand has been speculation and comments about the
(16:55):
future of Bell Collins and Jonah Williams, and can both guys be on the
roster with the financial expenditure on OrlandoBrown this year and our Blando Brown in
the future, with the Joe Burrowextension coming potentially, with the T.
Higgins extension coming potentially, with theWigan Wilson extension coming, does it all
fit? Especially with Joe Mixon stillon the roster at his current number.
(17:21):
What does that mean about these offensivelineman. We'll get into that to finish
up the show. Coming up next. It was win or go home in
Boston on Monday night in the MiamiHeat. Didn't want to go home,
knocking off the Boston Celtics to advanceto the NBA Finals. There was a
team that was mentally tough, readyfor the challenge, ready for a battle.
(17:41):
And then there was the Boston Celtics. The Vegas Golden Nights are headed
to the Stanley Cup Final after takingGame six in the Western Conference Final and
convincing fashion. This time, We'renot here just to be here. I
felt like season one we were coolabout being here. But you know,
it feels like the mission is notover. Us and Liam Hendricks returned to
a mound for the Chicago White Soxafter a battle with non Hodgkins lymphoma.
(18:03):
Welcome back Liam Hendrick's emotional moment.They didn't even go to commercial break when
he came into the game out ofthe dugout. For more on these stories,
check out new episodes of Locked onHeat, Locked On Golden Knights,
and Locked on White Sox, allfree and available wherever you get podcast.
(18:26):
All right, Jake, let's diveinto the offensive line questions, because I
think that there are some out therethat see what Jackson Carmen did in the
Divisional round against the Bills at lefttackle. They see him out there now
and he's trimmed down, appears tobe more mature, certainly more dedicated.
Was young coming into the league.It's only year three and they say,
(18:48):
all right, not only is hemore mature, but he seems better suited
for tackle. He looks like he'sin pretty good shape. Try him at
right tackle. And yet you haveLele Collins looking pretty darn good in his
rehab. Still not there, butpretty good. Was walking onto the field
with his cleats the other day,so he's certainly working and building towards a
(19:11):
return with Bengals trainer Nick Cosgrey leadingthe way. And then you have the
Joanah Williams factor, where I thinkhis Q score is about as low as
any Bengals player has been in afew years, certainly during this run,
and he's the highest he's the highestpaid of the three, but we haven't
(19:32):
seen him. Some assume he's stilldisgruntled. I don't think that's the case.
I think he's just working hard byhimself. And you have twelve point
six million dollars guaranteed to him.So there's three guys one starting spot.
One guy's actually cheap. Would saywould be a value if he did end
(19:53):
up becoming the starter in Jackson CarmenLal Collins TBD because of the injuries and
everything like that, and then Jonahif he plays up to his level,
I think it's worth it up tohis best level that we've seen in the
NFL, But it doesn't feel goodhaving to owe him twelve point six million
dollars. Yeah, it's it's alot to fit together with Elsie seemingly being
(20:18):
ahead of schedule with limited spots forthese guys to play. Like, if
Jonah and Elsie are on the team, where are they playing? Are they
actually talking about somebody playing left guard? Is one of those guys in the
mix with the Lord L Wilson,I'll tell you now, because that's been
a lot of speculation. No whenof the Bengals ever, Like, honestly,
(20:41):
we've talked about Jonah moving for yearsand it took Orlando Brown Junior calling
them willing to take a rate thatwas way less than anyone expected and them
saying, heck, yeah, wewant you to play left tackle for them
to move Jonah. Like, Iwould be shocked if one of those guys
was in the running at left guardwith the healthy Cordell. Yeah, it
(21:03):
would be surprising. I mean,at least one of them has professional experience
a guard in LC and so ifanyone would do it, you know,
at least he's played, you know, at a starting level on the inside,
but it's it's not going to Imean, the world where is Jackson
(21:26):
Carmen in week one is a worldwhere neither of those guys is playing right
tackle and because they're not available forsome reason. Right like that, that's
pretty straightforward. But the interesting thingis is making it work from a financial
perspective. Right because Joe Burrow's extension, well, how does that impact the
(21:49):
cap this year? It depends onthe structure. And this is why the
structure of these contracts is so interesting. Even though Duke Tobin is surprised that
we care about the contract details inthe media and as fans. If you
remember that quote from Duke Tobin afew months ago, and I wish I
had the exact quote, but hesaid something about it. I'm surprised that
(22:11):
people care about the contract details andstructure. But burrows cap hit, even
after an extension, depending on theway they do, it could barely go
up in twenty twenty three. He'scurrently scheduled to have a cap hit this
year of eleven and a half milliondollars according to over the Cap, and
(22:36):
that number could go up maybe seveneight million dollars. And even if it
does that still leaves the Bengals withenough cap space to deal with all their
practice squad stuff, to deal withthe little bit of cushion they want to
have to deal with injuries in theseason. It could go up a little
(22:56):
bit more than that, depending onthe structure, but they can technically afford
their entire roster as is, evenwith the Joe Burrow extension that adds seven
or eight million dollars to his caphit this year. If that's the case,
so they could keep all those guys. They could say, you know,
(23:19):
we want this really good experienced tackledepth, and they could have it
now. If they also had at Higgins extension and that adds a little
bit to his cap hit this year, probably add a little bit more because
he's a second round pick, sothe contracts a little bit smaller, so
that signing bonus is going to getpro rated into the first year of the
deal. This year would be alittle bit of a bigger delta, bigger
(23:42):
change. So once you start talkingabout Logan Wilson T Higgins extensions as well,
that's where money can start to gettight. But if Joe Burrows the
only one that gets done, thenthey could still have seven eight million dollars
a cat space and that would bean for everything else that they need to
pay for. Yeah, I wouldbe shocked. I would still be shocked
(24:07):
if they just kind of went businessas usual, just added on a Borough
extension, and that might be theonly extension that gets done. It might
be because if you're the Bengals,you've just extended Jermaine Pratt. I don't
know how all in you are ongetting Logan Wilson done this offseason. If
you can't get t done with JamarChase looming with a bunch of other guys
(24:32):
that we should talk about at somepoint, and their future is potentially staying
or going. DJ Reader is certainlyone of those guys. It is it
worth spending this money knowing you canpush it to the future, push some
of that space, push some ofthat room and roll it over and use
it next year on guys like that. And so man, I think in
(24:56):
a perfect world, perfect world,Jake Laal Collins, they would continue to
heal him, and Nick Cosgray wouldcontinue to heal him with his magical powers
that worked with Joe Burrow and haveworked with a bunch of guys, right,
they would have him show that he'sready to go. Something happens in
(25:18):
camp where they can shed Jonah's moneyand Joe Mixon takes a pay cut,
where all of the things happen right, there was a trade Jonah and keep
Joe, move on from Joe andkeep all of those things. In a
perfect world, you're shedding all thatsalary, I think, And in lel
is the guy that you hoped youwere getting a few years last year when
(25:41):
you signed him, and obviously hedealt with some injuries. I'm not sure
if all of those things happened,I think they could. I guess you
could say an ideal world would alsobe Jonah Williams just as the best year
of his career at right tackle fortwelve point six million dollars. You would
take that all day long. Ifthat's what ended up happening. As well,
(26:02):
I think it comes down to wejust we don't know. There's so
many questions, and yet I keepcoming to It's hard for me to envision
Jackson Carmen being the starting right tackleunless something went wrong where Lao looks good.
So they moved Jonah because they getoffered more than they think that they
(26:22):
were going to and then Lao hasa setback or gets dinged up or one
of those things. So the peoplethat feel good about Carmen, that's great
because then you feel pretty good aboutthe tackle depth because odds are I think
he'll be a backup even if theydid move on from Jonah at some point
during the during camp, but Idon't think they will. I think ultimately
he'll be the starting right tackle.Yeah, and I think with Carmen,
(26:48):
I think he probably has some workto do again, because again you're asking
to learn a new position. AndI know when they drafted him, I
study played left tackle like a rightguard, didn't really work out at right
guard, was better at left tackle, playing again like a right guard,
still still playing the same way stylistically, so maybe you know he handles the
(27:11):
transition better to the other side thistime. He practiced there. He practiced
there, but he's never played there, to your point, and he's talked
about the difficulty in making the switchfrom one side to the other. And
in the few clips we've seen ofhim working at tackle with Orlando Brown,
you see Frank Polla giving him someextra work, some extra words of advice,
(27:33):
and some extra corrections. So itdoes seem like there's a little bit
of work, maybe a lot ofwork for him to do to figure out
that position swap again to right tackle. It's not like it was perfect at
left tackle either. You know,he had a couple solid performances in the
postseason. But you're right, Ithink the ideal is either Elsie's healthy and
(27:56):
plays like he did in his peak, which what do you think, like
fifteen percent? You get something likethat, maybe ten percent, I mean
even something approaching his peak, notterribly likely given his injury issues. But
if he's healthy, maybe some ofthat stuff is mitigated quite a bit,
right, and if he can stayhealthy, if he can keep his body
(28:18):
right. The other one is JonahWilliams, like you said, playing as
well as you've ever seen Jonah play, and then you have two pretty good
tackles. Right. Either way,you're hoping that one of those two guys
steps up and plays as well asthey've played in their career at some point,
and that Jackson Carmen can continue togrow because likely, I mean,
they do have Elsie under contract nextyear, but you might need a new
(28:41):
starter next year, and if JacksonCarman is ready to do that next year,
in a contract year, great,then you don't need to immediately go
out and spend a resource on thatposition. But for this year, which
is obviously the focus right now,you're hoping one of those two guys,
just two veterans can go play likewe've seen them play in the NFL at
some point, which is pretty good, and Carmen can be your your swing
(29:03):
tackle. You're right, and thenyou'd feel good about that as well.
I mean, you saw him stepin last year and be passable, and
I think he's better now than hewas eight months ago, seven months ago,
So we'll see. Obviously it waswhat four months ago when he slid
in there, a little less thanfour months, but yeah, we'll see
the as the world turns. JakeLESCo, we know a lot, but
(29:26):
there's plenty we don't know. Andthat right tackle spot up for grabs.
And then Joe Mixon future certainly interesting. I think they asked him to take
a pick up, that would bemy guess. They just they massage to
him. I'm on board with mytheory now that they were massaging the ego
of Joe. Everyone hates you,Joe, all of those things. You
are the best. We want youto take an incentive, Layden deal.
(29:51):
If it happens. If it happens, we can come back to this episode.
You're the first person to say it. You've got the the connect the
dots working today. Okay, never, that's gonna do it for this episode
of the Lockdow Bengals podcast. We'llbe back for one more episode this week.
That'll be a mail bag. Keepan eye out on May thirty,
(30:14):
first evening at locked on Bengals onTwitter to get your questions in if you
miss it on the evening of Maythirty first, get your questions. And
on the morning of June first andwe'll get your questions into our next episode.
Until then, Bengals fans, thanksfor listening two day and have a
good one. It was win orgo home in Boston on Monday night in
(30:34):
the Miami Heat. Didn't want togo home, knocking off the Boston Celtics
to advance to the NBA Finals.There was a team that was mentally tough,
ready for the challenge, ready fora battle, and then there was
the Boxes Celtics. The Vegas GoldenNights are headed to the Stanley Cup Final
after taking Game six in the WesternConference Final and convincing fashion. This time,
(30:56):
We're not here just to be here. I felt like season one,
we were cool about being here,but you know, it feels like the
mission is not over. Us andLiam Hendricks returned to the mound for the
Chicago White Sox after a battle withnon Hodgkins lymphoma. Welcome back, Liam
Hendricks emotional moment. They didn't evengo to commercial break when Heat came into
(31:17):
the game, out of the dugout. For more on these stories, check
out new episodes of Locked On Heat, Locked On Golden Knights, and Locked
on White Sox, offering available whereveryou get podcast
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