11/18/25 - The Mo Egger Radio Show

On Tuesday's show from Oakley Greens...

Paul Dehner Jr and Shawn Syed on the Bengals, Taylor Twellman on FC Cincinnati v. Miami, and Mo's ramblings about Ja'Marr Chase, what the Reds don't really have, and UC Football.

Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.

Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.

Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Session when the Bengals look to take New England to task.
Who new history class could get this violent? Speaking of
the Patriots, I wonder how I would look in a
powdered wig. Probably not good. Coverage begins at nine am Sunday,
stream for free on the new and improved iHeartRadio app
or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
What's up.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's five minutes after three o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.
I'm blagger. We're broadcasting today from Oakley Greens. It is
gnarly outside. I don't know that I have a better adjective.
It is gross, It is disgusting. It is dark, it
is cloudy, it is wet. It's like the opposite of

(00:49):
a nice day. But here's the good news. We're not
out there. We're inside here at Oakley Greens, and we're
here till five o'clock. It's a short show today. UK
basketball bumps us out of the early as the Wildcats
playing the Champions Classic in New York City against Michigan State.
That game is gonna tip off a little bit earlier
than your typical college basketball game. At six point thirty

(01:11):
pregame at five, so we are done early. Taylor Twelveman
is gonna join us in the four o'clock hour to
talk about Sunday's massive Eastern Conference semifinal tilt between FC
Cincinnati and Miami. A full show preview is available on
Twitter at maleger thanks to Shriffacs Credit Union, become a
member today at shareffax dot org. If you're thinking, you

(01:34):
know what, I want to go watch the game this weekend.
Whatever that game is. Maybe it's the Bengals game. Maybe
it's your favorite college football team. It could be it
could be Michigan Ohio State. That game a week from Saturday.
It's gonna be huge at the Skyline, Chile Crosstown shootout,
FC Cincinnati. Whatever it is, whatever you want to watch,

(01:56):
you can watch it here at Oakley Greens.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Tons of TV.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
By the way, the holiday setup is perfect. The lights,
the de Corps, We've got Christmas theme, Chewbacca and Darth
Vader and a Stormtrooper. Really everything you could ever asked for.
We have Laura and the bartender. We really are in
a holiday utopia here at Oakley Greens. And to make
things even better, our friend Paul Damer Junior, from The
Athletic and the Grawlar podcast is here.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
We are. We are going to figure out how to
have to turn on your microphone. Oh well, there you are. Yes,
it's me all right man. You good.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
I've been in your seat before. I've seen that panic look.
I've worn that panic expression before.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
I get it. Kind of looks like a Bengals linebacker.
That kind of looks like a Bengal safety. Yeah, kind
of looks like a Bengals defensive coordinator, except he's trying.
Kind of looks like a Bengals fan.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
I'm glad you're here.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
There is a lot to discuss, there is in this
sea of anger and bad takes.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
I was I was happy to read your piece on Jamarch.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Okay, yeah, because it can't And we're not going to
talk about this for an hour because I don't think
you want to.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
I mean whatever, I don't.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
I honestly think there's larger issues to discuss and frankly,
more interesting things to discuss. But sure, he is arguably
their best player. He's one of the stars of this league.
He did something that has gotten him suspended. We'll see
if his appeal is heard to the degree that the
punishment is overturned. We will see, but in this sea

(03:29):
of just like bad takes your piece. I nodded along
as I read every single word.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, my take on it.

Speaker 5 (03:37):
Well, it's kind of funny because I think over the
course of this year, and we've talked about it in
a number of different places, you and I about maybe
one of the underrated storylines of this entire season was
Jamar's growth as a person, as a player, as a leader,
as a sort of as a teammate, and as as

(04:00):
a focal point of the type of person they want
to build this organization around. I mean, it used to
be where you went right to Jamar after a game
and just couldn't wait to hear what he's gonna pop
off about it, or you'd see him on the field
doing other things or whatever. Just it was, you know,
he never was a captain, even when he was really
good young and younger. He's a young player, a young person.

(04:23):
You really saw him grow over the course of this
year and even the tail end of last year and
through the contract stuff, and I think the way that
a lot of that even was handled it was just notable.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Ye.

Speaker 5 (04:36):
And so for then this to happen and then it
all turns into this is a bad guy.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Is he's a terrible person.

Speaker 5 (04:43):
It was just it didn't fit into really everything we'd
seen over a long period of time now with Jamar Chase.
And I understand why people say these things, but it's
kind of like it's really, uh, you know, a microcosm
of our society in general.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
This is what happens all the time.

Speaker 5 (05:06):
One person makes a mistake and they are just eviscerated
for it, and people call them this, that and the other,
and there's no nuance or no perspective, there's no context
of a bigger picture, and and so it just you
could you could see this happening with with Jamar Chase
her like, this just doesn't fit everything that we have

(05:28):
seen for months and years now in terms of who
he's kind of started to become. And I just wanted
to point that out with the understanding that that was wrong,
that was ridiculous. He gets what's everything everything about it,
like everything about this instant, but like we all make mistakes,
we all have bad days like this, this doesn't follow

(05:49):
the pattern of what I just feel like I have
seen up close and heard from talking to people that
would really know and including Zach Taylor speaking yesterday about
kind of who Jamar Chase has been and just wanted
to kind of put that out there.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
I said this to you on the Growler today, which
is out Paul Jay myself.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
I was only on for thirty minutes.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
It's a much longer podcast than that, thank god. I
I'll criticize z That Taylor for a lot of different things.
I thought he handled okay things yesterday.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
I thought he handled the questions about Jamar and Chase.
He acknowledged what happened, didn't try to insult our intelligence
and say, oh no, actually you gotta watch the video
and it happened, certainly didn't condone it, which you can,
but took up for the character of his guy.

Speaker 5 (06:40):
Yeah, And I think that was also speaking to the
same things I was just saying in that, you know,
this is just it's someone who made a mistake. But
this is just not who he's been, and he not
who he's been in this building, not who he's been
to us, not who he's been for you know. And
they have had to deal with him extremely closely through

(07:03):
some tough situations, through the contract negotiations, through him losing
for the really the first time in his life the
last couple of years, right through stuff that he's gone
through on the field and now through not having Burrow
and emerging as this leader and the captain and all
that stuff, Like they've.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Seen all of this.

Speaker 5 (07:24):
So I think just to say it, to own up
to the mistake with an understanding of what it is,
and but also to point up, but this that's not
going to define who this person is, because it doesn't
define who this person is, and everybody, you know, you
move on and you go forward, and they're not gonna
stop building around Jamar Chase, then fairness, I mean, yeah,

(07:48):
he needs that needs to be his messaging because he's
a big part of what they do.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
But that was genuine like that.

Speaker 5 (07:55):
It certainly at least didn't come across as some sort
of thing trying to save the core of my team.
I think that was just genuine truth and honesty about
the way that he truly feels about who Jamar has
been as a player.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
Do you think they'll hear his appeal, which is, well,
if I meant to spit on him, I would have
spit in his face.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Do you think that's gonna carry much weight?

Speaker 5 (08:15):
Oh no, I mean yeah, I know they'll hear it, right,
they are, I believe, legally obligated to listen, and then
they will hit the no button and we'll go on
about our lives.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, I would imagine, and then next man up. So
this will be the Jermaine Burton game on Sunday?

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Right, No, okay, well I mean no, I don't. Yeah, no,
I don't. That's that is uh, I don't think. Yeah,
you think this is the.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Feverishly diving into his playbook, like you know what, this
is my this is my opportunity. Yeah, show up at
the stadium if somebody can show him where it is,
and get there and get to work, start grinding the tape.
Tell inform Jermaine that they play at one o'clock on Sunday,
Tell him which team they play, and yeah, I gets
Jermaine nine catches.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
One hundred and seven yards. A couple of scores, the Jermaine.

Speaker 5 (09:05):
Burton game, Jamainberg game. Yeah you're sure that's the way
this goes. I think you know, you just hope you
can get to shows up at the stadium on time. Right,
that's probably the one that you're aiming for right now.
It's where the bar is.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
What was most frustrating to me about Sunday. The Jamar
Chase stuff was a footnote to me, not that it
wasn't significant, but the big thing I had was the
sense of inevitability as the game went on. This was
going to be a game in the fourth quarter, and
when it was Al Golden's unit was going to go

(09:42):
out on the field. This defense that Zach Taylor spent
the buy week telling people, not making changes, not making
changes personnel wise, not making changes with the coordinator was
asked point blank, can you win a championship with this defense?
And he says, yes, okay, twenty to twelve, big boy,
you've managed.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
The cl in ways that I can't even wrap my
brain around.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
Joe Flacca has played compromised, but you're you're within a
score and now Al and that unit go and get
a stop.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
And what we said this last week, right, this is
gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
So but but you know this was coming out of
the by after all the statements about we're stand the
course status quo, okay, validate that, and instead they go
sixty five yards and whatever it was, nine plays, ten plays,
it didn't matter.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
It looked way too easy.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Ballgame over, season over, and what we thought was going
to happen becomes reality.

Speaker 5 (10:37):
Is this is who they are. This is who they've been.
They've been this team all year. They they squeaked out
a couple cominds early the AFC North came back to him.
They were able to stay relevant. Joe Flacco came in
and that went better than they ever thought it could
have gone. Outside of that, this is it like they

(10:58):
are just historically awful on defense, and you mentioned it.
It's the fact that to me, it's not even just
the fact that they're bad. Okay, there's not enough talent
on this roster, right, undeniably, Yeah, truly just devoid of
talent on defense. Okay, they're not good enough. They have

(11:18):
all these problems. I can even live with some of
that if you look like you care. Like the lack
of effort on some of these plays, and obviously we
know the perpetrators here. At this point, Geno Stone certainly
stands out. Josh Newton does not get enough credit for
how little effort he puts in out there when he

(11:39):
has been out there.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
I want to make sure he gets a reference.

Speaker 5 (11:43):
But there's others okay, and then the bad play is
the bad play, but like it's the lack of effort
and the lack of going for it, the lack of
acting like you want to try to tackle number eighty,
you have any interest in it, Okay, you want to
try to be in the right, You want to take
on the lock in the alley, you want to get
your head in there and try to make the play

(12:04):
and stream. So when we talk about I was like,
I feel bad honestly continuing to trot out these stats
and Jay does the same thing.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
That just shows how bad it is.

Speaker 5 (12:17):
It's I think when you pinpoint the second half stuff
where where you say they're not just the worst true
media only goes back to two thousands, so I can't
like do the full dat and triangles. Sure, but when
you just look at that every team since two thousand,
they're not just the worst ass for halftime there's been

(12:38):
of any team. They're not even close to the second worst.
It's it's the jarring distance between them and the next
worst team this century that blows you. When the games
get harder, when it when it hurts more, when it's
a bigger moment. All of these things that happened this

(13:00):
year in the second halves when it's just tougher to
do these guys don't do it. They quit, they give up.
There's no strain. I think there's plenty of good guys that.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
It matters to them on that side of the.

Speaker 5 (13:13):
Ball, but there's too many where it doesn't and it
just doesn't matter enough. It certainly doesn't matter enough for
them to have the grit then the griminess that we
saw that was a tenant of those twenty one and
twenty two defenses to make that play, to know what
that takes. There is none of that on that side
of the ball at the end of games. And that's

(13:34):
been such a huge part of this every single time
they've been in a close one, and it was there.
It was again on Sunday, and kind of a fitting
final stands out, I think for any realistic chances for
this team with only seven games to go, seven more
of these, though, Hey, and don't worry, it gets so
much easier, Drake may Lamar Jackson twice, Josh Allen, it

(13:59):
gets so much easier.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
But like there's the question, how much worse is this
going to look like? Forget, how much worse is this
going to get They're going to lose more games. They're
probably gonna lose more games in spectacular fashion. They may
lose games while Joe Burrow is playing for them. More
losses are coming. But if that's what it looked like
on Sunday with a shred of hope remaining, what is

(14:25):
this gonna look like when all hope has been exhausted?
And how is that gonna reflect on people who could
be working for their jobs.

Speaker 5 (14:34):
Right now right? I mean, it's it's hard to know.
I mean, I I don't think we've seen the bottom.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
I mean, these.

Speaker 5 (14:43):
Next one of these next four games is gonna look
like Minnesota is gonna look like I mean, that's just
what it's. There's just the state that they're in right
now defensively, even for all the good things that they're
doing on offense.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
One of these games is gonna get out.

Speaker 5 (14:57):
Of hand with a couple of turnovers and we're gonna
see it just spiral that.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
That's what this is. That's what this is playing out.
The string is gonna be.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
And you know, I'm always interested, as someone who's been
around here a while, I've seen the string played out before.

Speaker 6 (15:14):
Uh huh.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
It's doesn't always go the way you think. Sometimes there
is some fight and then around here we always you know,
it's to send them home happy they win a couple
of games in the end of the year. But sometimes
even in playing out the string of team surprises you
in some ways. I will tell you some serious fight
coming from this defense would surprise me in some ways.

(15:36):
I think you're seeing it in some spots, but like, yeah,
there's there's no sense that like, oh man, there you're
seeing it's close.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
I think you saw it. Get look closer because the
Steelers offense is terrible.

Speaker 5 (15:50):
Yeah, but it doesn't feel like all of these How
is this tackling thing? How is this still hit? How
is anticipating balls that are checked down to running backs
and tight ends still it? How is it the same
problems over and over again? You know it's that there's

(16:13):
no reason to believe that that's gonna change.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Twenty minutes after three o'clock, Paul Dannerje, you're so dark,
it is. But I keep coming back to like it
feels like week fifteen, and you're like, just let's scrape
the last two games off the plate and move on.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
No, we're not the Thanksgiving yet. No, No, we have
this season will end in January. We're only midway, partially
midway through November. Three holidays to go, right.

Speaker 5 (16:39):
Yeah, it's a long way off.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
It's a long way off.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
So they're interesting from that perspective, like how much worse
will this look?

Speaker 2 (16:52):
How will this gets?

Speaker 3 (16:54):
I mean, I think, what will rock bottom look like
in two or three weeks? What is Thanksgiving Night gonna
be like when we's great the entire country to this
crap on a federal holiday?

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah? Oh god? Oh man?

Speaker 5 (17:06):
How and how impactful will the way it looks be
on the end game decisions amongst the people that are
in charge of this thing.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Twenty one after three Paul Danner, Junior Athathletic dot Com
and the Growler Podcast. The latest episode is out, as
we say, where you get your podcasts, We're at Oakley
Greens in Oakley. Great plays to post up after work,
great plays to have holiday happy hours, Great plays to
watch college basketball tonight in awesome doubleheader with Kentucky and

(17:34):
Michigan State Duke and Kansas Xavier plays tonight as well.
You can watch all those games here at Oakley Greens.
Paul's here till four. We are here till five today
on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.

Speaker 7 (17:47):
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Speaker 3 (18:39):
Forty eight after three. This is ESPN fifteen to thirty.
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UK basketball coming up with a tip off at six thirty.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
What's up with Trey Hendrickson? Some big question? Right? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (19:00):
I mean, I think, you know, doubtful again obviously this week.
So I think we're just sort of under the impression
that he's not coming back till he's one hundred percent,
and I don't know when that will be. I don't
think anybody knows when that will be. I think it

(19:20):
is understandably but speculative to say how much of this
is involved with his situation, the team situation. I don't know.
You know, when we talked to him before the bye week,
he said, look, I I would like to come.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
I might have come back too early.

Speaker 5 (19:42):
I want to make sure I'm all the way one
hundred percent right to go play out there when I
do go back out there. This seems to be the
suggestion that he wants to return, but they really needed him. Yes,
And it's and you know, it's easy to sit there
and say that. Like to me, the thing that I

(20:04):
keep saying when people ask me this is no one
knows Trey mm hm. No one knows but Trey about
the decision that he's making. We, obviously, because of the situation,
can speculate on what has gone on the last couple
of weeks and what will go on the rest of
the year. There is no It is not my place
to say this guy can play through this, right, No

(20:26):
one really knows the level of paint whatever. The Bengals
also are complicit in this. They put themselves in the
situation where people don't feel like they do have to
sell out. They are going to be looking out for
themselves to make sure that they're one hundred percent because
they're about to head into free agency of offseason because
you didn't deliver a long term contract. We talked about
this with t Higgins at this point in time last

(20:48):
year when he was missing games. This is that's that's
part of where you put yourself. So I don't I don't.
I can't say with certainty anything about what is if
Trey should or should not be playing, or what's going on.
I think there's there's probably something in the middle there
in terms of what is is actually going on, but

(21:10):
only only Trey really knows, and you know that's the
decision that he's made.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
I need for me, I need a Joe Burrow December surprise.
We're after a game that I assume he's going to
play in. He informs everybody that he wants Trey Hendrickson back, Right,
you want that, well, I mean as a fan, not
really kind.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Of ready to move on for for your your content,
seven weeks, Okay, we need last year in Dallas to happen.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
We need we have seven games, Okay, I I could
use a plot twist.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
So yes, well that's.

Speaker 5 (21:48):
That's the other thing, you know, like we we go
back and think about when they were at four and
eight last year and it was like, how the hell
are we going to get home?

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Right? How are we going to get to the end
of this year? Burrow took care of that for us.

Speaker 5 (21:59):
Joe Burrow took care of it, and it became him
and Tea and Jamar and the whole plan and the
Dallas and all of that stuff. In the drunk game
in Tennessee, like all of those things happened and made
it interesting, you know, made it made it. I don't
I don't know like what that Maybe that is coming.

(22:20):
I'm sure there'll be something. There's always drama in CNFL,
but something besides who's gonna get fired that can get
us through December. Hopefully there's something like that. But I
don't know that that's gonna be it.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Okay, Well I can hope, Yeah, you can hope. Man,
it just feels done, doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
It does, and it feels like it should have been done.
And you and I have talked about this exhaustively. You've
written about this, you've done this on your podcast, you've
talked about it with me. This, Trey Hendrickson, this year
feels like Marvin Lewis twenty eighteen, where it's like, you
know what, when it kind of felt like it was
time to move on, we should have moved on, Yes,

(22:59):
And now the two side are just lingering and it's
weird and it's awkward, and it's it's not the best
marriage and for all parties involved, it should have ended.
It should have ended months ago.

Speaker 5 (23:11):
Yes, And yeah, absolutely, because it's just everybody would have
been better off. But and it just it's this is
that this is that end part or where you just
like there's just where they're they're in the divorce hearings
probably and there's just like resentment and staring across the
table watching them eat, like I hate the way you eat.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
You know. It just feels like it's like that right now.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
As a veteran of divorce, I I could tell you
my main objective was to avoid acknowledging we're getting divorced,
but hey, we're gonna live with each other for a
few weeks. I wasn't doing that and this is why,
because this is what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yes, and it's it's not good for anybody.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
No, it's it's not. But you know, here we are,
we're None of this is good for anybody right now.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Neither is Geno Stone. And we'll talk about him next.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Paul Danner Junior's with us where oh Greens On ESPN
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 7 (24:04):
You've been listening to football in the NATI, brought to
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there any Bengals news interesting happening?

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Jah the Jamar appeal whenever that I haven't, I haven't.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
How does that happen? What has a an appeal of
disciplinary action happen?

Speaker 2 (25:21):
How does it happen? Quick phone call, zoom meeting. I
believe it says zoom. I believe it says. I don't
think get to fly anywhere or anything of that.

Speaker 5 (25:30):
They can just a little zoom with Jordy Nelson, uh
and then then a report back of what that appeal
finding is.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
So would they just go get like random players from
the early twenty tens and they.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Hear the appeals? I think they're part of it's a
predetermined committee. Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
College basketball Tonight, Xavier is hosting Old Dominion at seven
o'clock on seven hundred WLW Kentucky and Michigan State play
at Madison Square Garden at six thirty pregame at five
on ESPN fifteen thirty. The Cyclones played this against the
Toledo Walleye and won.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Five to four.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
Field trip day, they had nearly thirteen thousand fans downtown.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
My daughter was there. I saw the press release and
I'm like, did I have gone to that game? Yeah? Yeah,
I was.

Speaker 5 (26:12):
The schools all sent everybody down there to go to
the game. We were talking all about the rules, and
I said, wait, who.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Do they play? Did they play the Walleye? That's always
my favorite? And I'll be dog gone there they were.
They were playing the Wall.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
The Cyclones play the Walleye about forty five times, Wheeling
Naylor's the other thirty five games.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
The Columbus Blue Jackets play at Winnipeg tonight. After winning
last night in Montreal four to three in a shootout.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Paul Danner Junior's here.

Speaker 5 (26:38):
We did get to explain the penalty box to my
daughter this one. It was kind of a fun thing
to to see the look on somebody's eye, like, wait,
they just they put them in a they just put
them over there and they shove them.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
In a box.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
You know, I'm not going to be home tonight, but
what I might do is call my daughter and tell her, Hey,
there were schools that got to go to a hockey
game today while you were sitting in school, and then
let my wife deal with that for the rest of
the evening. The neighborhood kids who go to I see
no problems here other schools when they have days off

(27:09):
and she doesn't. It's it's a thing in my house.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
Oh no, you can't feel left out, Absolutely not, especially
not one like that.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Joe Flacco hurt. I don't. I think he's okay. Yeah,
I mean I can only you know, we haven't.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
We'll see if he participates in the same fashion that
he has. I mean he's hurt, is I guess the
question is is he injured more now than he was
last week when he didn't throw on Wednesday?

Speaker 2 (27:34):
I don't. I don't think so. But that's kind of
going off the same thing that you guys probably heard
from the press conference and watching him.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
He's doing this weird thing where it looks like he
was trying to get his wallet out of his back
pocket but he couldn't.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, that's not what you do when you're killing normal.

Speaker 5 (27:51):
No, I I think he's I mean, I think they
felt like he was better heading into this previous this
game than he was certainly the week before. But they
felt like there was a significant difference there. And first
of that, TJ. Watt hit he knew what he was doing. Yes,
like that, that was not a that was clear into

(28:13):
the game, saying when I get a shot, I might
get a penalty, but I'm driving that shoulder into the ground.
I you know, this is from the same group that
was punching him the last time they played, right, So
you know, no, no surprise on that, but that, yeah,
that so maybe that was part of the impact he
seems to suggest. They seem just okay, that's one that

(28:36):
will probably that's all follow the actions situation. We'll see
what Wednesday and Thursday.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
If if it were to be a thing where you
know what, Joe doesn't feel it, would they accelerate the
Joe Burrow timeline and have him play.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Against the Patriots. No, I don't think so. Jake Browning time,
I think, yeah, I think that would be the move.
I don't.

Speaker 5 (28:52):
I don't see a world where they they ship Burrow
out there just because they're not sure where to go next.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Still hoping that Burrow plays on Thanksgiving.

Speaker 5 (29:03):
I mean that's the first day that's even in play.
I would say where there's even a conversation when.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
When they add him to the excuse me, when they
add him to the active roster, what happens to Jake Browning?

Speaker 2 (29:15):
I think he stays on. I think they go with three.

Speaker 5 (29:17):
I mean they have three now Clifford emergency thirds hitch,
So I think that you probably still have the same
situation Clifford out in Burrow up is probably your keep.
Three around would be my guess. I don't think that
they just they boot Jake Browning out the door necessarily.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
How on earth could you have Geno Stone on the
field for you on Sunday?

Speaker 5 (29:41):
For me, no Ginostone, I would be done with it.
He wouldn't have been around Monday at this point, especially
when the defense is so bad.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
It's just.

Speaker 5 (29:54):
Put players out there that care, that will prove that
they want to do it, that are trying to do its,
showing the effort to go for it, and that they
care about trying to make the play. I'm just you know,
I go back were Charlie and I were talking about
something rewatch going through some of this place, and it's like,
I go back to I remember Lou and Orumo talking

(30:15):
about this when their team was just garbage in twenty nineteen,
and it was it was a tail end of sort
of like the act of the dune lap thing was happening.
It felt like a lot of guys were checking out
and not really trying as much as they should to
the Miami game, right, But it felt like that was
the case, right, And his point was on the sudden,

(30:39):
all of a sudden, like dudes you've literally never heard
of were out there and in big spots tire right, yeah,
who I couldn't even I wish I could rip off
all the names, but other than they were just as
obscure as it gets. And his point was, I just
want guys that I know are going to go out
there and try hard, even if they're nowhere nearest town,

(31:00):
to as the other guys, because if the effort's not there,
to me, That's where I'm at with this, Like I
don't know what the problem is with Tyson Anderson's ability
to understand the defense or get people in the.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
Right spots or all the other stuff. That comes along
with it.

Speaker 5 (31:14):
I mean, it's not like we've seen him go out
there and fail to do it in the game. I've
seen him and quit himself pretty well on special teams.
And it's also by the way, and indictment on the
fact they didn't fill the safety room out properly. If
you're just gonna let this continue to happen because you
have no other answer, if you don't have an answer
that you're willing to put in there that could be
better than whatever we're seeing now, then you have failed

(31:35):
to fill out that room properly.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Okay. So I just to me, that's that's.

Speaker 5 (31:41):
What I want to know. What is what would be
so bad about trying that? How bad could it possibly be?
I just think you have to make a point of
I'm just gonna put guys out there that I know
are gonna play hard. That's what I want to I
want to see guys that are really going out.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
With John Anthony PG Jewels literally anybody, yes, and maybe
you have something there and maybe you don't. And if
you don't, Okay, okay, what what are they gonna do?

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Are they gonna be.

Speaker 5 (32:09):
Now all of a sudden, No, they're not gonna be
any worse. It's impossible to be worse.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
I mean, Genostone, his play has spoken for itself. On Sunday,
the lack of effort spoke for itself, and then for
him to stand in the locker room and talk about, well,
actually I thought we played okay. That guy's got some
big ones. Now, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna stand there
after just not trying it all to tackle Darnell Washington,

(32:34):
and I'm gonna look at everybody that was more insulting
to my intelligence than Jamar.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
Chase and he didn't spit.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
I would have been mortified to face anyone knowing what
I had put out there, and to not only not
be mortified and be like, you know, I thought we
were playing better. Yeah, there were some people maybe that
were right, like I thought. There were a few people
that looked like they were like Miles Murphy. Miles Murphy
out of Miles Murphy's had his two best games as

(33:01):
a pro. The last two games, they've played like maybe
something's happening there and you're seeing some effort.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Maybe right, But my point is he played.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
He played hard, hustle plays, Chase plays all the stuff
that we've kind of talked about him not having the gun,
bade out there and do it like show me that
show me Hustle plays, Chase plays, stick.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
In your head.

Speaker 5 (33:22):
And I give credit to Barrett Carter for saying, I'm
trying to bring Darnell Washington down.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
That's fine. You know what.

Speaker 5 (33:29):
You you went out there and you got post rized,
and and that's fine. That is way better than what
happened next when when you Ginos done goes out there
and gives.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
The half shoulder situation.

Speaker 5 (33:40):
So I'm just I think there's such a drastic difference
in the two. I'll I'll live with Barrett Carter's mistakes,
and there's so many of them. I mean, yeah, I'm
not saying I would want to, but you you live
with that way more than I live with whatever's happening
with some of the other guys things.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Here's how bad things have gone.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
I don't know if you were on social media last night,
but the Cowboys were playing the Raiders and what was
not a great Monday night football game. And what we're
doing now is we're hate watching Logan Wilson, and folks
are arguing about whether or not Logan Wilson is playing
well or not playing well, and this is where things
have gotten.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
This is the depth. This is as a fan, this
might be rock bottom.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
I look on social media and the discussion is Logan
Wilson looks good.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
No he doesn't.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
We're arguing over Logan Wilson, who was benched, wasn't making
plays before he got benched. That's where things are right now.

Speaker 5 (34:35):
I've been I've done multiple shows this week where we've
said the phrase what about like Braylon Lux and Jalen Davis,
And I'm like, I cannot believe we've reached the Jalen
Davis and Braylin Lux portioned into the program. But it
does go there, like right, I don't know, man, Like
maybe those guys will go out there and tire. Maybe
we need more Joe Giles Harris in our life like that.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
It's just that.

Speaker 5 (35:01):
So but I'm saying, like, it's that's where that's where
it's at, man, And I don't we got.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
A guy named Joe Giles Harris. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
We can play a game by the end of the year.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
We did this with Austin once because he tried to
claim he was an Ohio State basketball fan, and I said,
we're gonna play a game. I'm gonna give you three names.
You have to pick the one that's the Ohio State
basketball player. He of course failed miserably. We can do
the same with like guys who are playing for the
Bengals weeks.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Sixteen through eighteen. Yeah, okay, we'll do that, Joe Giles,
Harris Kenny Johnson, and Michael Kowalski. Yeah, pick the Bengal.
Picked the Bengal.

Speaker 5 (35:42):
Yeah, We're get it out with the twenty nineteen guys.
I guess, yeah, that would that would be fun. We
go back to that list. I might have to pull
up the uh, the actual box score from that game.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
To frustrate.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
One of the many, many, many frustrating things is and
we got to break here, and you gotta go. But
the Pittsburgh Steelers are not good. No, the Baltimore Ravens
I think are the odds on favorite to win the division.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
They probably will.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
They're okay, like this division stinks to waste you wrote
that after the game, to waste this division.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
There was stinks right in front of you, Right in
front of you.

Speaker 5 (36:15):
All you had to do was put an okay defense
together and you would have been treated to the story
of Joe Flacco handing the torch to Joe Burrow. You
would have been treated with that because you'd be sitting
there at whatever, five and four, whatever you wanted to
be sitting there at. You had all of that in
front of you. But the defense was this bad, and
so instead we have these seven games in front of us.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
Joe Giles Harris joined the Bengals, recently activated from Nyack,
New York. His brother plays for the Denver Outlaws of
the Premier Lacrosse. I'm learning all about Joe Giles Harris.
He was signed to the active rosster October thirties. It's
a big week for him.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Patriots Week former Patriots.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Oh you know when you get into like the Wikipedia
pay and there's multiple parentheses first in Patriots, Jags, Bengals. Yeah,
I mean a lot of stints for Joe.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Well, good luck to him.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
I hope he's you mean you watching him play a
lot more. Fortunately alcohol is legal. Thank you very much,
so pleasure and we'll talk to you two weeks.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Looking forward to it.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
Enjoy your time away, enjoy Thanksgiving in Baltimore, and thank
you as all. Can't wait listen to the Growler podcast.
Watch the Growler Podcast on YouTube, listen to it wherever
you get your podcasts, and read Paul at the Athletic
dot com.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Follow Paul on Twitter at Paul Danner Junior.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
Eight away from four o'clock, We are at Oakley Greens
today on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 9 (37:45):
He's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (37:48):
Traffic from the UC Health to Traffic Center.

Speaker 8 (37:51):
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(38:12):
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Speaker 6 (38:21):
This report is sponsored.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
School is in session when the Bengals look to take
New England to task. Who New history class could get
this violent? Speaking of the Patriots, I wonder how I
would look in a pout our deweke probably not good.
Coverage begins at nine am Sunday, stream for free on
the new and improved iHeartRadio app or ESPN fifteen thirty,

(38:47):
the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
All right, that is us success before ESPN fifteen thirty
on All Lager.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Today.

Speaker 10 (38:57):
We are broadcasting as we do everyday from Oakley Greens,
an awesome place for after work happy hour and awesome
place to watch this weekend.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
You got college basketball, you got college football, you got
the Bengals game like you got Thursday Night.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
Football, and I think a pretty fun gig between Houston
and Buffalo. You got FC Cincinnati, you name it, you
can watch it here at Oakley Greens. And including Big
Tilts coming up a week from Saturday, Ohio State versus Michigan.
You've got the Skyline Chili Crosstown Shootout two weeks from
this Friday. You can watch both of those games here
at Oakley Greens. You can run out of Cabana for

(39:36):
your holiday party. The staff here is awesome and the
daycre is terrific. You know, I could be a sucker
for a good holiday decoration. This this place just hits
my sweet spot when it comes to Christmas Day Corps
Here at Oakley Greens. We love doing the show here.
We are done early today, UK Hoops at five o'clock.
The pregame show Wildcats and Michigan State in the Champion.

(40:00):
It's classic this year it's at Madison Square Garden. Tip
off at six point thirty. By the way, the Reds
just announced a couple of transactions. I think the one
that might stand out more than any is they have
dfaed Carson Spires. They have selected from Double A Edwin
Arroyo and Leo Balkassar, and also selected from Louisville the

(40:24):
contract of outfielder Hector Rodriguez. As listening as they do
every day to Tony and Austin talk about Hunter Green,
and there has been a Mark Sheldon ama ask me
anything at reds dot com where he has answered a
lot of questions about his reporting on Hunter Green.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
And Mark is a.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Terrific reporter and covers the Reds and covers baseball very objectively.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
For reds dot Com.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
He has written about and he had readers who were
asking him about the reporting that maybe the Reds would
trade Hunter Green. He hasn't reported that they will. He
reported that it's likely go read for yourself. It's easy
to find at Reds dot com. Hunter Green being traded
has come up often and you can take this with
a Green asst. I like Hunter Green. I understand some

(41:12):
people's frustration with Hunter Green. First of all, on the
postseason fin pitch well they needed him to. Secondly, he
may have slow played the return from his injury. It's
not up to me to definitively say that he did
or didn't, but there are many close to the organization
and I think in the organization, who feel that he
could have hit the gas a little bit more in

(41:34):
his return from his injury this year. But he's also
a cost controlled staff ace. In the month of September,
he pitched the best two games of the season by
any Reds pitcher against the Mets on that Sunday that
the NFL season started, and nobody was paying attention. On
that Thursday night against the Chicago Cubs when he won
the game, won nothing. Hunter Green has limitless potential. Now

(41:57):
Reds need a bat, frankly could use more than one bat.
And you know, if if you, if you believe as
most do, that they're not gonna jump into the Kyle
Schwarber sweepstakes. And you believe that they're not gonna go
overboard and spending money for a free agent slugger, then
there's certainly some validity to the idea that they're gonna

(42:20):
have to trade to get a hitter. And if you're
gonna trade to get a hitter, you're gonna trade from
where you're pretty well stocked. And the Reds are pretty
well stocked when it comes to starting pitcher. But I
think it is a misnomer to suggest that they have
such an overabundance of starting pitching that they they can

(42:40):
just start shopping a lot of people, including a staff control,
a cause controlled staff ace, like they have a lot
of really talented pitchers who are established. Did Andrew Abbott
maybe just have his greatest ever season?

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Worth wondering?

Speaker 3 (42:58):
Nicolodolo Is has got a world of upside and at
times can be absolutely terrific. Are we so bought in
on his ability to stay healthy that we're willing to
trade away a staff ace. Chase Burns just got to
the big leagues this past season. Rhett Louder just missed

(43:19):
an entire season. They needed starting pitching last year so
much that they traded to get a starting pitcher in
Zach Lyttel. Like Number one, I hear it all the time,
you can't have enough starting pitching.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Well, if that's.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
True, then you don't hoard arms necessarily, and you don't
refuse trade requests if a team is interested in one
of your starting pitchers and is willing to give you
something of value, but you're not exactly cavalier about just
trading away arms like number two. Are we really sure
they have a surplus? Are we really sure they are

(43:54):
so well stocked with starting pitching that they could trade
away their best starting pitcher. By the way, you don't
have to do anything with this contract. The cost control
has a lot to do with this. Hunter Green this
year is gonna get about a two million dollar raise.

(44:14):
I've said it often. Last year he was like the
eighty second highest paid starting pitcher in baseball. He's gonna
get a nominal raise this year. Do we want him
to get through a full season where he makes thirty
two or thirty three starts? Absolutely, Until the Reds make
the postseason again and put a Hunter Green on a

(44:35):
playoff mound, is it gonna be fair to wonder if
he's gonna rise to the occasion on a stage like that. Absolutely,
but are they really so well stocked when it comes
to starting pitching that they could be dismissive cavalier or
that willing to trade away a cost controlled staff ace.

(44:58):
I don't think the answer is yes. Twelve minutes after
four o'clock, this is ESPN fifteen thirty, Sean Saya it
Stats and the Scheme Newsletter is gonna join us in
just about ten minutes.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
We'll spend some time on.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
UC football at a bit of a crossroads as well,
and Taylor Twelman from MLS Season Pass on Apple TV
is gonna join us before we get out of here
at five o'clock. One more segment from my end on
Jamar Chase. Jamar Chase has been suspended. My guess is
the suspension is upheld and he doesn't play on Sunday.

(45:33):
And when you do something that puts you at the
mercy of the league, to me, you get what's coming
to you. And if you don't like that, then Jamar
should take it up with his union. Nobody in their
right mind condones what Jamar Chase did. I said this
yesterday They're not gonna take away your Bengals jersey. They're
not gonna take away your Jamar Chase jersey if you go.

(45:55):
You know what, Jamar shouldn't have done that. Like, we
could be reasonable about this. You can love someone, could
root for someone, you can look up to someone, you
can revere someone, but not condone every single thing they do.
I am a parent of an eight year old. I
love my daughter more than anything on the planet. When
she does stuff wrong, I'll say, you did something wrong.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
It's my job.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
Like you can do that. You can do that as
a boss, you can do that as a sports fan.
I feel the same way about Jamar Chase today as
I did on Sunday morning. Wonderful player. I think he's
a good guy, cornerstone of the team, immensely fun to watch,
central to what the Bengals want to be, by all accounts,
a great teammate, by all accounts, a good guy.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
He did something.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Extraordinarily stupid and regrettable, and whatever comes his way in
terms of punishment, he deserves. But there's a handful of
things I believe in. One is I'm a body of
work guy. I'll just make this about sports. My favorite
all time baseball player is Barry Larkin. Occasionally, when I
say this, someone will say, hey, yeah, but he took

(46:57):
the captain c off his chest. Okay, how about the
eighteen years of excellent play at shortstop. Isn't that body
of work so good that you're willing to overlook this
one relatively benign thing. I'm a huge UC football fan.
Luke Fickel is the greatest coach in the history of
the school. I root for Luke Fickele.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
I hate that it's gone sideways for him in Madison.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
I don't think it's ever gonna go well, well, yeah,
but it's how it ended and kind of got sideways
at the end, and you know, it was kind of
checked out.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
That last year.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
Yeah, it was also really cool playing in three straight
conference championship games, wasn't it was need Playing in the
Peach Bowl. It's kind of cool. Playing in the Cotton Bowl,
being in the playoff, that was kind of cool. I'm
a body of work guy. Jamar Chase's body of work
to this point has been exemplary. Exemplary. He already right
now and this is saying something. If you know anything
about Chad Johnson and all the wide receivers the Bengals

(47:51):
have had. He might be the greatest wide receiver in
the history of the franchise. He's one of the very
best in the league. I look at the body of
work on field and off. Has he popped off emotionally
at times?

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Sure? Has he done so in a way that has
compromised his team?

Speaker 6 (48:07):
No?

Speaker 3 (48:07):
Again, you can acknowledge all that, acknowledge that what he
did on Sunday is not good, and still look at
the overall body at work and arrive at the conclusion
that Jamar Chase is a net plus for the Cincinnati
Bepanals and will continue to be so if the pattern
of behavior he is established for nearly five years continues.

(48:28):
I also believe in this man. I believe in in
not necessarily passing judgment on people based on their worst moment.
I'm much older than Jamar Chase. I've done a lot
of really stupid things in my life. I've done a
lot of things that I'm not proud of. I've done
some things I am ashamed of. I'm lucky that I
have people in my life that don't judge me by

(48:50):
by my worst moments. I'm a big believer in this
and if this makes me, I don't know, an apologist
or a homer or bleeding heart, I don't. I don't
know what this categorizes me as. I just I am
a firm believer in you don't pass judgment on people
based on their lowest moment, on their worst moment, on
their worst moment of judgment. Again, and I can't emphasize

(49:13):
this enough. You don't spit on people. You don't spit
on people in the athletic arena, you don't spin on
people in everyday life.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
You just you don't. And if the NFL.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Upholds the punishment and he can't play on Sunday, that's
Jamar Chase's fault, not the NFL's fault. But in terms
of judging him, I am a huge believer and always
will be in people have low points, and people do
bad things, and if that is reflective of who you are,

(49:45):
then those things get repeated, and there's a pattern of
behavior that gets repeated. I don't believe that's gonna happen
with Jamar Chase. By the way, if it does well,
then we're gonna judge him differently than we do now.
Bengals have had some guys that I've looked at and
said the hatternough behavior as such that I can't help
but think that that's who they are. Fontez Perfect's transgressions

(50:06):
were limited to on the field, but I thought he
played recklessly. I thought he played selfishly, and so it's
not judging him by his lowest moment. His lowest moment
I thought came in that twenty fifteen playoff game against
the Steelers. But he never overcame that, he never got
past it never felt to me like he learned from it.
Adam Jones, I have absolutely no use for that guy

(50:26):
because he continues to get in trouble. He's the common denominator.
It's not about judging him by his worst moment. It's
about seeing a pattern of behavior and going, you know what,
I'm glad that dude's not an active NFL player playing
for the team I care about. With Jamar Chase, I
just it's an isolated incident, a bad one, an awful
look for him, and not even just the punishment. Whatever

(50:50):
short term scrutiny comes his way, he is earned and
he's gonna have to answer to.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
But I don't feel at all.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
That any one of us who loves watching Jamar Chase
should feel bad about it, should feel ashamed of it,
should feel like we have to have serious conversations with
ourselves or our kids about Jamar Chase did something you
shouldn't have done. I'm still left to believe that he's
a good dude, a worthwhile character, an easy player to

(51:22):
root for, And I do not believe in allowing these
isolated things to define who you are. Again, I'm sure
many will disagree. I'm sure most who disagree hate the
Cincinnati Bengals, and many probably love the Pittsburgh Steelers. I
don't do this about athletes on other teams. I just
in life. If you judge everybody by their worst moment,

(51:47):
if you judge everybody by the thing that they're most
ashamed of, you're not gonna like anyone. You're not gonna
have any friends, probably not gonna have any family members
who want to hang out with. I cannot tell you
how many people would have abandoned me in my life
if they judge me by my worst moments. And I
think every single one of us could say the same thing.
So Jamar, learn from it, take your punishment, be accountable,

(52:09):
don't do it again, and keep doing everything else the
way you have. Nineteen after four Sean Sayad, next.

Speaker 11 (52:17):
Talk, This is sports with soul, sweat and swagger. Tony Pike,
Sincy three sixty Tomorrow at twelve noon on ESPN fifteen thirty,
This is Football in the Natti, brought to you by
Modern Office Methods on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home

(52:39):
of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
All right, our guys, Sean Sayad from the Stats and
Scheme newsletter from Summer Sports dot com is joining us.
He's typically with us at five twenty, but our show's
done early today at five o'clock. Really quick. Before we
get to Sean. This had been talked about in high
school football circles for at least since Sunday, but the

(53:03):
Elder say next game is officially being moved to the
venue originally known as Paul Brown Stadium. It's going to
take place on Friday evening. If you already had tickets
for the game at Mason High School, they will honor
those tickets. You could order tickets for the game at
OHSAA dot org slash tickets. They go on sale tomorrow

(53:24):
at ten o'clock. They're going to make an incremental twenty
thousand tickets available for sale. Kickoff is going to be
at seven o'clock. They'll sell parking, all of that stuff.
So the elder say, next game, which students really didn't
have access to because they went on sale while kids
were in school, game was going to be at Mason
High School. They are going to play it at PBS
and again, get tickets at OHSAA dot org. Our guy,

(53:48):
Sean Side is with US stats and scheme newsletter suomer
sports dot com, which, by the way, make sure to
check out sumer Brain. Sean, It's it's Groundhog Day for
you and I, but it's good to have you.

Speaker 12 (53:58):
How are you, Oh, it's great.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
You know, it was fun to hear you talk about
that high school football game. I obviously hope that all
those people that end up going to that see some
better tackling than what we have to talk about on
a weekly basis.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Better tackling and better effort like that's I think for
a lot of us. The big takeaway from Pittsburgh. You
can come up with whatever schemes you want. When you
have players who are allergic to contact, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
I think you know what you see some effort, good
effort from Miles Murphy, like you're excited to see ow, Okay,
this could be a player that's part of your defense
kind of in the long haul, but absolutely, like I
would love to come here and.

Speaker 12 (54:34):
Talk about, oh, this is a cool scheme that would
work in this situation.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
But really on the defensive end, there were some fun
things that the Steelers did on defense in this game.
I will say to combat the Bengals, but yeah, on
the defensive end, gonna need a little bit better I
think from this Bengals defense.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
Let's talk about some of the things that Pittsburgh did
do because the first time these two teams played, the
Steelers state and man defense and Jamar Chase and t
Higgins burned them. This time round, totally different game plan,
and it felt like the Bengals had no answer.

Speaker 4 (55:04):
Absolutely, it felt like you get to some of those
smarter too high safety type looks where if you even
get situations where it's kind of like man coverage, but
then both of the stacies are also bracketing Higgins and Chase,
and you go through the history of how teams have
tried to deal with the Bengals at their peak, and
that is I think the right way to do it.

Speaker 12 (55:21):
I remember the Chargers.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
Trying it against them and then you get a double move.
I think it was Higgins that ended up on a touchdown,
of believe that was last year. Maybe it was the
year before that, but that is it makes sense, like
this is how you attack an offense.

Speaker 12 (55:32):
That is built fully through their two really really good
wide receiver.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
Then I'm not saying it's a bad thing, like you
want to have an offense built through two really good receivers,
but it does make me think a little bit, like
you had actually brought it up last week, like oh
do you think like now we look at Burrow and think, oh, well,
how do you take some of the things from this
new offensive approach. It might just be me like racking
my head over and over, well watching this kind of.

Speaker 12 (55:54):
Saying game happen over and over.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
But I'm really really curious what kind of changes do
does this offense When I'm watching a team like the
Bills fully transform their identity, like really really change in
a specific way to I think help their quarterback.

Speaker 12 (56:07):
And kind of remove some office play.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
I'm fascinated to see when Burrow comes back healthy, are
you adjusting your game a little bit.

Speaker 12 (56:14):
I think, maybe get a little bit better with modern defenses.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
I also feel like, and you could tell me if
the tape matches this, and this is not the first
time we've talked about it. I feel like, let's assume
Joe plays a week from Thursday. He is going to
be playing behind an offensive line that is better than
the one that he played behind the first two games.

Speaker 4 (56:32):
And I mean, yeah, not of offensive line that we're
hanging in the rafters of our time talking together. I
don't want to say that by any means, but I
thinkin you get some solid effort. I kind of enjoyed
a little bit of what you've seen from fair Trial
at different points along this season. So you have got
healthy now. I mean next week, obviously we know that
Jamar Chase won't be there, but you.

Speaker 12 (56:52):
Have parts of a run game that like.

Speaker 13 (56:54):
I.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
Hang onto this every week when I know that I
have to turn on the tape, I know I'm going
to get something from my I got Chase Brown every week.
I just know I'm going to see something that I
like there. So I think then it becomes a comment
on as a coaching staff, can you really you kind
of have to Sell, I think Joe a little bit
and say, this is the offense that's gonna put us
in a position to succeed consistently. And I think Burrow
could also say, hey, look, I'm one of the best

(57:16):
quarterbacks in this league. You don't need to draw up
all that funky under center stuff or anything like that.

Speaker 12 (57:20):
Like I can just win over and over.

Speaker 4 (57:21):
But I'm like, I just I want to see I
think I want to see this team evolve. I think
it'll be more fun for us talking every week. But
also just as teams continue to approach this offense and say, look, like,
do you want to win jump balls with see Higgins
and Jamar Chase every time? No, but you're going to
run into games where defense is find a way to
double team those guys, and then you just don't have

(57:41):
answers outside of that.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
The Patriots on one of the more fun stories in
the NFL. Everybody believes in like Vrabel. Everybody believes in
Drake May. What are they doing schematically that has allowed
them to overachieve at least to this point this season.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
So this is a great example because I think that
Josh mccamils and Drake May to do like every single
thing in the playoffs, he's getting under sent and he's
taking those deeper dropbacks. He's using play action, and so
you see Drake May really highlighted because he is using
every single little skill.

Speaker 12 (58:12):
That he has. I think Joe Burrow can do absolutely everything.

Speaker 4 (58:14):
So I would be curious if you get him kind
of in a situation like the Patriots, where one thing
I love about the Patriots, and we'll see this in
the game, is whatever Drake May drops back, you just
know exactly where he's going to be.

Speaker 12 (58:25):
It's very predictable.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
It's very close to in a good way in that
the offensive tackles their lives are made easier because their
quarterback is dropping to the same spot. He's not drifting,
he's not falling back, he's in a really really clean spot.
And then he can also make plays against pressure, like
what we saw on Thursday night against the Jets.

Speaker 12 (58:41):
So do I think this team is the best team
in the FC?

Speaker 4 (58:44):
I mean no, I don't, but there I think a
lot better than what they expected to be this year.

Speaker 12 (58:48):
They have the absolute chance to.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
Win the division, which I think is pretty well and
maybe even be that number one seed in the AFC.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
How does a bad defense combat what they're doing?

Speaker 12 (59:01):
The able question. It's like it's I just want to
see better tackling, right, because the Patriots.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Run game is not this like running game that should
that is like changing football in any sort of way, right,
Like a lot of what's happening in their success is
because of Drake May making these really nice passes, and
so like I keep thinking about it, like, oh, like
what does change in the defensive coordinator or the defensive
play caller really.

Speaker 12 (59:24):
Do at this point? I mean, can you literally get
these guys to tackle better?

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Like? So that that to me is the best situation
where I do think we've actually seen the Patriots have
some success with their receivers. We see the make connection
two digs a little bit more then I think maybe
what we had even expected going into this year.

Speaker 12 (59:41):
So I don't feel like they.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
Have like overwhelming receivers that will like they don't have
Chase and Higgins, right, they obviously don't, and so they're
not morphing the field in that way. But they just
like are so consistent, Chris clean and good at what
they do. So you know, you want to try and
lead into the baron at some point hopefully you can
get some of those third downs. Maybe you get Drake
made to kind of find that bozo that you have

(01:00:04):
a little bit more last season.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
I love the data that the Stats and Scheme newsletter
puts in my inbox every week.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
For those who haven't subscribed yet, what will they get?

Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
The data notes for every single game and detailed stuff.
If you were the head coach that took over a team,
this is the data that I would give you and say, Okay,
we need to know every single tendency. We need to
know exactly what teams do well, we need to do
exactly what teams do poorly. Now, I will say for
a lot of these Bengals boxes, there's a lot of red.
Don't let that discourage you. There's a lot of teams
in the NFL that you can learn about as well.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
And for folks who haven't been to suomer sports dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
Yeah, sewersports dot com, you can check out some of
our writing. You can check out our free data table,
so you can look at a lot of stuff.

Speaker 12 (01:00:47):
I really liked this thing.

Speaker 4 (01:00:48):
We call Schoomer Brain supersports dot com slash Stoomer Brain.
Just type been in question, type in any sort of
data that you're worried about. You know what is the
Bengals passing efficiency when Joe Brow is under center. We'll
give you some data all for free, and some fun
bigs that you can talk about at home.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
Sumer sports dot com s U M R. Sean said,
you're the best man. Thanks so much, Thanks so much.

Speaker 12 (01:01:10):
Not I appreciate you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
You got it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Suomer sports dot com. Shawn Sayat subscribe to Who's newsletter
these Stats.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
And Scheme news Letter.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Taylor Twelman In twelve minutes, We're at Oakley Greens. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports station.

Speaker 7 (01:01:24):
You've been listening to football in the NATI on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 9 (01:01:36):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (01:01:40):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center.

Speaker 8 (01:01:43):
Are you one of the thirty eight million Americans impacted
by diabetes? Get personalized education and treatment options from the
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East found Fort Washington, wait at seventy one two left
the lanes blocked from an X in a traffic getting
by in the right lane also backed up from seventy

(01:02:03):
five westbound Ronald Reagan Highway accident on the off ramp,
the Coleraine and Reading Road accident at Dana on that
Ezelic with trans.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Session when the Bengals look to take New England to task.
Who new history class could get this violent? Speaking of
the Patriots, I wonder how I would look in a
powdered way. Probably not good. Coverage begins at nine am Sunday,
stream for free on the new and improved iHeartRadio app
or ESPN fifteen thirty. The official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Sports headlines is the service of a Kelsey Chevrolet home
of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from their
family New Yours for Life, kelseyshev dot com. The Elder
sint X game is being moved to the venue originally
known as Paul Rowse Team.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
It's gonna kick.

Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
Off at seven o'clock on Friday. Will no longer be
held at Mason High. We'll get your tickets at hsas.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Hey dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
College basketball Tonight, Xavier is hosting Old Dominion at seven pm.
Musketeers have lost two straight games. Tip off at seven.
I just said that on seven hundred WLW Kentucky hooks
up in the Champions Classic against Michigan State, tip off
at six point thirty. I got an email wondering why
is the game so early, because I'm sure this gentleman

(01:03:25):
is disappointed that we're done an hour earlier than usual.
And the answer is, the game is at six thirty
because between the games in New York, Kentucky, Michigan State, Kansas,
and Duke they do the college Football Playoff ranking show,
and so they woant to fit all this in in
a tighter window and not go longer than necessary. There

(01:03:47):
you go, there's your answer. Pregame coverage on ESPN fifteen
thirty at five pm. Cyclones one today beat the Toledo
Walleye on field trip Day Downtown five to four. Columbus
Bluejackets skate tonight against Winnipeg. CBJ has won three at
a four, including their last game last night in Montreal
four to three in a shootout. Tonight's game against the

(01:04:09):
Winnipeg Jets, who when they lose, I call the Lozipeg
Jets because I am woefully unoriginal.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Paul.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Questions on this show come your way thanks to United
Heartland Insurance. Think about what you're paying for insurance, and
then see what the folks that United Heartland Insurance can
do for you. Check out uhins dot com. Which of
these three red starting pitchers would you be most comfortable
trading Abbott, Green or Lodolo? Vote now at Moegger FC

(01:04:37):
Cincinnati getting set to host Messi and Miami on Sunday.
Taylor Twelman on the call, he joins us next where
at Oakley Greens. This is ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 9 (01:04:46):
Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 6 (01:04:51):
Traffic from the uc HEALTHA Traffic Center.

Speaker 8 (01:04:54):
Are you one of the thirty eight million Americans impacted
buying diabetes? Get personalized education and treatment options from the
experts at u see health. Learn more at ucehealth dot com.
Eastbound Fort Washington Wait at seventy one two left the
lanes blocked from an accident. Traffic getting by in the
right lane also backed up from seventy five westbound Ronald

(01:05:16):
Reagan Highway accident on the off ramp to Coleraine and
Reading road accident at Dana. I'm at ezelic with traffic
this report twelve minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
Away from five o'clock to CSBN fifteen thirty. Wee on
broadcasts from Oak Ring Day Basketball pre game show coming
up state five minutes the Annual Champions Classic from Madison
Square Garden. First game of the doubleheader, Kentucky taking on
Michigan State. We're hoping to hear from Taylor Twelman here

(01:05:45):
before we get out of the WAFC. Cincinnati obviously getting
set to host Miami on Sunday at five o'clock. Evander
versus Messi, which is gonna be a lot of fun.
A birth in the Conference final is up for grabs.
Taylor hopefully able to join us before we get out
of here at five o'clock. New calendar for Major League

(01:06:05):
Soccer as well, and if we have time, we'll ask
Taylor how he feels about that one thing we haven't
really had a chance to get to today. Scott Sadafield
talked earlier this afternoon previewing the game against BYU the Bearcats.
This is not and I told you so thing, because
I'm sure you can find a lot of folks who

(01:06:26):
didn't feel great about the game on Saturday. I had
a bad feeling about the game on Saturday, and the
reason basically is I've worried about some of the issues
we saw the Bearcats have offensively against Utah snowballing, and
I think they did. And it was really sobering in
that game against Arizona when Arizona basically said you're not

(01:06:48):
gonna run it anymore and dared.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Them to throw. The Bearcats had no answer.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
Tony and I were talking about this a little bit
yesterday on the Tony Mo Football Show. You'll see teams
play cover zero. I'm not sure I've seen in a
game that wasn't a blowout a team say repeatedly to
that degree, you can't beat us over the top. We're
not only not gonna have a guy fifteen yards back,

(01:07:19):
we're not gonna have a guy ten yards back. They
were daring Cincinnati to throw, and they had no real answer.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
And so we have.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Gone from talking about the Bearcats maybe playing for a
conference championship, and while mathematically I guess there's still a chance, now,
it's about avoiding what happened last year. You know, they
have a seven to three record this season. I think
if they figured out a way to rally and win
on Saturday, which is going to be extraordinarily difficult, and

(01:07:52):
then win on the road against TCU, which is not
gonna be easy. I think despite the fact that they
would not have played for a Big twelve title, most
of us will walk away from the season feeling like
it was a good one, and I think feeling like
this season represented progress and a step toward where you
see football wants to get. And the absence of that, man,

(01:08:16):
I don't know where the conversation goes. Our conversation is
going to go here. F C Cincinnati is getting set
for the conference semifinal on Sunday of five o'clock kick
at TQL Stadium. The great Taylor twelveman on the call
for MLS s'son Pass on Apple TV and always kind
enough to join his tailor.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
It's good to have you. How are you good? Are you,
Bud doing well?

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
What was your biggest takeaway from FC Cincinnati's Round one
win over Columbus?

Speaker 13 (01:08:43):
Uh? Nothing that they won with I guess my biggest
takeaway for instead of me Ramblin would be they won
without a Vander playing at its best. I think Evander
if not for Lionel Messi, you can make an argument's
been best player in MLS over the last two seasons,
and so uh Cincinnati won without him being great and

(01:09:07):
that I think says a lot. You know, they they
win games by one goal. You guys know this better
than anyone watching Pad Newton, and it's Cincinnati teams. Especially
over the last three years. Seventy four percent of their
wins are by you know, one goal. So they're completely
competent enough to take a lead and survive it. But

(01:09:29):
I think my biggest takeaway is the fact that they
won without Evander being great?

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Can they win on Sunday without Avander being great?

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
No?

Speaker 13 (01:09:39):
But I don't think that's the most important thing. And
I know that's a weird answer. Evander's got to be really,
really good, and I think he's got to be better
than what he was against Clumbus to beat Miami. But
I actually don't think it's one A. I think it's

(01:10:02):
one B for lack of a better way to put it.
But Evander's got to be better than what he was
against Columbus. I don't think that's that strong of an opinion.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
All Right, what's at the top of Pat Noonan's list
when he starts to figure out what his tactics are
going to be for Miami.

Speaker 13 (01:10:19):
It's an interesting question because I just listen Miami's played
more games in a calendar year than any team in
MLS history. They've only been helped scoreless five times. Two
of those games are against Cincinnati. Can you really keep
a clean sheet against them again the third time? I
just that one to me feels like that's a long shot.

(01:10:42):
If they keep a clean sheet, Cincinnati wins. And I
just that's why I say Evander doesn't have to be
great if they keep a clean sheet. If you keep
Messy in Miami scoreless again, then someone's going to get
a goal for Cincinnati. Just the way Miami plays Miami,

(01:11:03):
more than likely's going to start Luis Suarez, and when
he starts, keeping clean sheets is very difficult because you've
got Suarez, you've got Messy, and you've got Bisquets. You've
got three guys that are older, so their defensive posture
isn't going to be what it was in the third
game against Nashville. So Pat Noonon and his staff are
looking at it saying, yeah, how do we keep a

(01:11:25):
clean sheet? I think you, I think you're playing with
fire if you go into the game at home with
that environment, which is going to be second to none,
and try to sit in and try to be so
pragmatic defensively. I think if they come out the way
they did against Columbus in the first leg, the first game,

(01:11:48):
so to speak, and be on the front foot and
try to get after Miami and be very aggressive, I
think that suits Cincinnati more than trying to come in
and saying, listen, if we keep them off the board, great,
but we're going to sacrifice us being a little aggressive.
Miami's too good to just sit in and try to
defend for eighty minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:12:08):
I've asked this on a number of occasions as the
season is unfolded, and I'll do it now that we
have four teams remaining. I got like a minute left
obviously FC Cincinnati in Miami. The Eastern Conference as a whole,
break it down for me.

Speaker 13 (01:12:22):
The Eastern Conference as a whole. I said it in
July and it remains the same. I think the Eastern
Conference champion has to go through Ohio. Now. I said
that with Columbus on the verge of signing, you know,
a record signing designated player. He ended up being injured
for the series against Cincinnati, so it still remains the same.
I think the winner of Cincinnati in Miami, I think

(01:12:45):
the winner of that is going to be an MLS Cup.
I've felt that all season long. I feel that now
Philadelphia's style, for lack of a better way to put this,
is great over thirty four games, but they can be
caught in a one off game. I think the winner
the Eastern Conference is gonna come from the winner of
Cincinnati Miami on Sunday night.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
Sunday is gonna be awesome. The atmosphere should be incredible.
The game itself, I hope, is terrific. And I hope
we're talking next week because then it means I have
you to talk about the Eastern Conference final.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Taylor.

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
Thanks so much, thanks for having me, Bud A great
Taylor twelveman MLS season past Apple TV. You could watch
that game here at Oakley Greens. You could watch UK
basketball at Oakley Greens. You can listen to it next.
Thank you for listening. We're back tomorrow at three oh five.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
We all know goodwill