4/16/24 - The Mo Egger Show - Mo Egger

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Oh, guess what day it is. Guess what day it is? Dudday?
All right, if you say so. Good afternoon on my legger.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thankyou for listening. Thrilled that you're here.
Hopefully you're having an unbelievable Tuesday afternoon. I could not be more flustered.

(00:23):
Paul Danner Junior's here. We're talkingabout is uh? Is it not
whole? Is it little league?Is it? What is it called league?
It's a little league, O Kelly, very good little league coaching experience.
I'm sending tweets. We're working onall sorts of stuff in the studio,
but we're now we're gonna do aradio show. I hope I didn't
fluster you, not at all.So you provided a calming influence. Yeah,

(00:45):
that's that's what That's usually what happened, which I appreciated and badly needed.
It's it's good to have Paul here. We were busy today. Frankie
Montass was terrible last night. We'regoing to discuss that in the four o'clock
hour. Ellie de la Cruz madea great play at shortstop last night.
I can't help but wonder something we'regonna give away more Aerosmith tickets. We
have another game to play. Atfour thirty three. I'll give you,

(01:07):
I'll give you like ninety minutes tobone up on your knowledge of Red's manager
David Bell. This is gonna beno your David Bell at four thirty three
and also the author of The Beast, Dave Brugler. It's it's a double
athletic day. Wow. Dane's gonnajoin us at five thirty three because he
wrote a three hundred and twenty threepage draft guide and so we're going to

(01:27):
talk about the draft both this yearand the one two years ago with Dane
in about two and a half hours. We have a show preview video I
just posted on Twitter. Thanks toour friends at Emery Federal Credit Union your
credit Union with heart since nineteen thirtynine. Most importantly, Paul is here
covering the Bengals for The Athletic podcastingabout the Bengals for The Growler, his

(01:49):
thrice weekly podcast. Yes you likethat. Yeah, it's thrice. I
mean it's a little much, butit's fine. He does a podcast three
days a week. Hey goo,Yeah, and it's good. Yeah,
that's day. And Dane will beon tomorrow's WOWW show. I interviewed him
yesterday and using it for our trenches, all trenches, all the time.
This is I mean, this isjust a Bengals fans love the trench.

(02:13):
Trenches. So we did wide Receivers, Past Catchers Bowers talk last week,
exhausted that topic beyond belief, andso now we're going to exhaust one last
exhaustive shot at the trenches topic,which is obviously we've already done in many
different sure permutations, but this iskind of the final deep dive. The
draft is in nine days. Youand I have another Tuesday next week,

(02:36):
which which means the the Mow andPaul Draft preview. I just came up
with that. Yeah that sounds good. Yeah, but that'll be as good
as any of the other ones.I mean, this is the Moega Radio
show. Yeah, yeah, we'reone of those shows if you go around
the country. I'm sure you've beenon some of those shows where it's like
the Zone and the Fan the clubhouse. We've yet to come up with a
fun name beyond the Jippy and Jojoin the morning, right, Yeah,

(02:59):
we haven't. Well, no,we're not going there, just sticking I
think sticking with I think it's bestto be clear about what you are.
Yeah, you know, I agreethe Moega radio show, and you never
come away from that wondering what's aboutto happen. Actually, I think most
of the time when you turn iton, you have I have no idea
what's about to happen. So wehave some draft stuff that I do want
to get to. But but yesterday, the guys were back, the players

(03:21):
were back. You had a chanceto interview some of the guys, spend
some time with him, get himin a scrum, get him in a
one on one setting if you could. Did anybody say anything interesting yesterday?
I mean, I think Dax Hillis the most interesting storyline to come out
of yesterday, but more so ofthe course of the entire offseason. It

(03:43):
was sort of the latest round ofwhat exactly is happening here? You know,
It's like he was looking forward tofinding out what his role would be.
Zach Taylor sort of said, yeah, I mean, I think we've
all got a pretty good feel forwhat's happening. Nobody seems having any interest
and telling us what exactly that is. And that's fine because I don't think

(04:03):
they know. Because I think that'sjust Look, the whole picture isn't together
yet. I mean, the draftstill has to happen, and then there's
potential for post free agency and thensee where all the pieces fit together,
and then we can be a littlemore public and with the plan. I

(04:23):
think they have a B and Cright and how they want it to go.
But you know, it depends onwhat the personnel groupings look like.
Because when you have somebody who isas versatile as the Axis, who can
do a number of different things,figuring out how to deploy him in a
lot of ways does depend on whatthe other things that the other guys can
do or you know, are herefor you. And I spent some time

(04:46):
on your podcast yesterday talking about Daxand then was thinking about him in the
aftermath of that. I'm actually prettyoptimistic that this is going to work.
I have a versatile player with Ithink pretty obvious athletic traits. He should
be motivated. There's some quality playersin the secondary, and he works for
a very good defensive coordinator. Idon't know what the role is going to

(05:11):
be or what it's going to looklike at the outset of the season,
but I have a general feeling,and you could throw cold water over this
if you want. I think thisis gonna work out. I don't know
how, but I'm moderately optimistic thatthis is gonna work. I don't have
a problem with whatever the plan isgoing to be, like whatever, I'm

(05:33):
I'm sure. My problem is Ireally thought you couldn't have set it up
better to work out than last year, right, and it did not work
out well? So is this awas that a situational thing? Was that?
Look, the projection to safety wasthe wrong projection and they're pivoting now
to find something that will put thisguy into the role that really does fit

(05:55):
him and he's gonna take off.Was it a thing of Look, it
was just his first year starting.The excuses start to pile up for a
little too fast. You told memonths ago you're out on dax Hills.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, theyThe excuses have piled up from I'm buying
a stock when it's cheap. That'sfine, that's and that's fine. I'm
not I'm not saying that there isn'tstill look, plenty of chances for it

(06:20):
to work, but there is noreal spot for it to work right now.
I mean that's that's just the bottomline and where it's whatever the plan
ends up being, it's not Hey, Dax Hill is starting day one right,
that's not happening. There's nowhere forit to go unless he can win
a job. The only job thatappears open would be outside corner because as
long as Mike Hilton this year,so I don't really know where that's going

(06:42):
to be. And I I likewhat he said in that. I like
that he said, Look, Ihad to reflect, I had to be
better. I have to realize thatI got to be better this year and
that it's an important year and Igot to make a leap and and all
I have to do is he couldhave showed up. And I feel like
there was some young complaining that firstyear rookies go through this all the time.

(07:03):
They're not playing as much as theywant, it's not going exactly how
they hope it will be. Thereuse to be in the man, it's
hard. It's hard. We seethis happen every year, specifically with first
round picks, so this is notbut Dax particularly had a frustrating experience because
he didn't really get to play hardyat all and felt like he was only
doing things that he wasn't supposed tobe there to do, and there was

(07:23):
some kind of to his experience.And last year it was better, but
then you had the play on thefield didn't quite work out. It felt
yesterday like you're not gonna hear complainingfrom me? Was his message. What's
your best role, Dax? Mybest role is whatever they tell me to

(07:44):
do. I want to be greatat whatever they want me to do,
and I need to be better.All of that is exactly what you want
him to say. And that's allhe can do right now is show up
and say the right things. Andso I think that is a step in
the right direction. I do thinkthat that's good. I don't know that
that necessarily means that it's gonna workout for Dax. I think everybody hopes
it does. That dude has tonsof talent, right Like, there's no

(08:05):
reason that it can. But that'swhat I default to. Like yesterday,
and we talked about this yesterday,I got good attitude. I didn't know
right I didn't he could show upin sulk and mope and not be accountable
to a guy people business. Theybrought in two people he could complain about
it. He can send cryptic tweets, or he could say, you know
what, I'm gonna show up andwork and do what they say and carve
out a role on this team thatmakes me useful. Now you might have

(08:28):
said when they drafted him, wewere looking for more than just useful.
But okay, I can't go backin time. All I can do is
take what happened last year and no, that's not good enough. They had
to address it. They did infree agency in spades. Okay, So
it's up to Dax to have agood attitude. If we start there,
he's going to work for a verygood defensive coordinator. He has physical attributes
and there are some guys he canlearn from if at some point he's going

(08:50):
to be a safety. And Istill feel like in the short term there's
there has to be a role ifhe's if he's versatile enough and good enough,
lou and Aromo's not going to finda place for him to help this
team. And so that's why Ifeel like, because of what I heard
yesterday and what I know about him, that there's a decent chance this works.
And there is still so much ofthe look this is a young defensive

(09:13):
back, and we've seen across theleak guys that struggle early in their career,
particularly in their first year starting,and then figure it out and have
their breakout year. That if thathappened next year, no one would sit
here and say that's stunning. Imean that happens all the time, sure,
And so it's not that it's notpossible. It's just that, you

(09:35):
know, I think you have tocome into it and wonder because of what
happened last year. Now, becausenow we have that full year where it
just didn't connect correctly, and youhope that for their sake that it will.
I am positive that a plan willbe apparent once we get through the
draft. I just don't think thatyou could ever say that what the plan

(09:56):
is until you know what happens inthe draft, because you know what could
happen. They could take a cornerat eighteen, They could you know,
find maybe somebody they didn't think wasgoing to be there at eighteen or at
forty nine is sitting there. Let'ssay it's Mike Sanders, drill from from
Michigan. Let's say they take himand he's he's he's basically Mike, a
young Mike Hilton, right, andhe sits there and well, well Ax
is going to come in now andbe the other backup slot. But you

(10:18):
got to move him outside or yougot to figure out way for him to
be part of the safety room.Again. All of that stuff is to
be worked out depending on what happensnext. And I think that's the whole
point, even though, like,can I just get a hint? Can
you give me a hint? Canwe just be a little more open about
it? Like, but I getit, they don't need you to,
but I just from very selfishly,i'd love to know. Sure, But

(10:39):
like I mean, you could youcould sort of go a process of elimination,
like, oh, you know,I can say what he's not going
to be doing? Yeah? Right, No, I think I think I
think we know, and I thinkthere's enough whispers about what it is.
It's just I don't know. Itstill has a it still has a little
bit of something up my sleeve toit that makes me wonder, that's all.

(11:00):
And this is not this is thatstrictly speculative just gut stuff. From
being around the team long enough,there's still feel I still feel like there's
a something trade them. I didn'tsay that I have said that. I'm
not saying that. I'm just sayingit just for that's kind of a natural
place to go, right, Yeah, Instantly, if a guy who other

(11:22):
teams had to have had a prettygood grade on a couple of years ago
and suddenly he has he's potentially beingsqueezed out of a role, how do
you not advance to the conversation toOkay, could the Bengals get something for
him? You're selling low, you'reselling low. But yeah, but you
know, I mean if a team, if a team needed let's say they
said they always thought of him asa slot corner. Let's say Harbaugh,

(11:46):
you know what I mean, Like, know the guy, know what he
can do, feel like he couldplay for you. Yeah, that'd be
something you're taking. I'm not sayingthat, I'm just saying it's it's it's
Spidey sense stuff. It's just likewhen something feels like it's not connecting,
you wonder what else is happening?Uh, and and so who knows,
but we'll we'll find out soon enough. Totally. I can't wait. Yeah,
I can't really sure he's he heis one of the most interesting people

(12:11):
on the team. Yeah, heis being facetious. No, No,
I felt like that was like,yeah, I can't wait. No,
once the draft comes and goes,we're gonna do t Higgins talk for four
months, Okay, like of stuffthat can happen this summer. Finding out
what Dax Hill's role is is onthe on the short list of interesting things.
I just wanted to know who hisposition coaches? Tell me what?

(12:35):
What like? So when you guysgo into you know, meetings today,
right and everybody goes the quarterbacks goover there there with Brad Kragthorpe and we've
got Troy Walters with receivers. WhatWho's who's at the front of the room
in Dax Hills? Is that theis it the cornerbacks coach? Is that?
Is that? Jordan Kovacs now safets? So maybe next week, maybe

(13:00):
he's exclusively next week bought him DaxHills Amazing adventure eighteen after three o'clock Paul
Danner Junior covering the Bengals and somuch more for the Athletic dot Com.
He's here told four, we're here, toll six. We have so much
ground to cover. My name isMullegar. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Day, three o'clock. Thisis ESPN fifteen thirty on mullegor Paul Danner

(13:22):
Juniors. Here. By the way, I did his podcast yesterday, the
Growler Podcast. If you watch iton YouTube, you can see how good
I am at handling a cough button. Yeah, that's right, near death
experience for you yesterday. That wasflawless on air. Never would have known.
I mean, that was some expertskill. Yeah. Yeah, that's
you know, that's what you want. You know, that's why they that's

(13:45):
why you have the YouTube involved.You know, you have a cough button,
so you have a cough you canwatch your favorites nearly pass out right
almost did that yesterday. Today theBengals had their their version of Fantasy Cam
where they have all the the localplayers come and pretend they're Bengals for a
day. Is that that sort ofthe best way to characterize, and it's
kind of the best way to characterize. It's not a cavalcade stars, but

(14:09):
there were I mean, there werea few guys that will get drafted or
be you know, preferred free agents, and that has been I mean,
Ivan Pace was there last year.It would have been nice to have him
worked out. Yeah, so yeah, you I mean Sewan Briggs. I
mean he was kind of the maybethe star of the show kind of deal.

(14:30):
I mean he certainly he looked looksthe part and uh, you know,
is a good dude at a positionof need and seems like somebody they
could adventure. But yeah, there'snot you know, there's not a ton
of uh you know, top draftedpeople there. But you know that's something
they do every year, and therewe are. Does that take place around
the NFL? Does every NFL teamdo that? Every team does that?

(14:52):
So you have certain teams and regionsthat obviously your region, but like there's
certain schools. So there used tobe a deal where the Bengals wouldn't get
Ohio State like they go to Clevelandor whatever. It's like, that's ridiculous.
What are we doing? Yeah,what are we doing? Like we
should that's a big we We wouldlike to be able to bring those guys
in for free. Doesn't count asa thirty visit used to local protests,

(15:13):
so you can get extra people inthat way. Theoretically. Some years there's
bigger name that Alex Pearce has beenthere. I remember Paris Campbell came out,
I mean, Preston Brown. Overthe years, you have guys.
A lot of times those guys don'twork out, which was the case today
Steel Chambers. Yeah. Uh wasthere just a badass name? Yeah,
it really is. And so hehad jeans and boots on. He wasn't

(15:37):
there to work out, No,no, no, but he looked pretty
sweet. But do they do itlike so they have players from UC and
Miami? Yeah? Right, yeah? Or local high schools? Yeah?
Does every And I'm genuinely asking herefor no other reason that I think it's
cool that they do it. Doother teams do players who went to area
high school Yeah, and then foundthemselves in college. That's your group that

(15:58):
you can pull from. So youcan pull from local high schools, you
can pull from local colleges anyway tojust kind of it was obviously much more
prominent back in the day, butnow you know, still still think that
goes on the t Higgins said onSunday at a at a camp that he
anticipates playing for the Bengals. Didyou feel like then announcing that you anticipate
writing about the Bengals In case anybody'swondering, it's about the same amount of

(16:22):
surprise and intrigue. Yeah, Imean, it's it was. It was
a thing where and I had JoeDanemon, who was the one that that
asked her up to the camp onthe Dean's TV Sports question, and uh
pointed out that right after that questionthat got shut down because there was a
look, no questions about anything otherthan the camp. Oh, come on,

(16:47):
we're gonna talk about how long arewe gonna ask about campers? Okay,
appreciate their attendance, but I knewthat was coming, so it was
waiting. But and after that,so I don't I don't think he was
if he was surprised. I don'tknow if he was surprised, but I
think he he couldn't kind of helpjust be in his own honest, kind
of genuinely good self, Like that'sjust kind of who he is at his

(17:07):
core. We'll see. But yeah, I mean I anticipate playing like we
all we all know the deal here, Like I said, trade request,
we know that's probably not gonna work. We know I'm probably gonna be back.
I love Cincinnati. I'm gonna maketwenty one point eight million dollars.
What are we talking about? Ithink that's kind of the point. Who
knows, But I think he justkind of said what we all already knew
two years ago the Bengals, threeyears ago, the Bengals have all season

(17:32):
workouts and they have one hundred percentattendance. Zach Taylor talked about it now
not so much. Yeah, Imean we haven't really gotten into the workouts.
Yeah no, But I don't thinkwe also really haven't gotten into much
of the one real on field stuffeither. I mean there's a lot of
there's a lot of not really muchgoing on. Yeah, I mean they're

(17:56):
here, Yeah, but what arethey doing. They're not really doing much.
I don't know. Yeah, soyou're there. I well, we
don't. There's there's no I meanthere's a practice, there's no there's no
on field thing that's happening right now. Team bonding retreat, stuff like that,
team bonding going to theoretically going toposition group meetings. Maybe I don't
know so, but yeah, Imean that's the type of stuff that is

(18:18):
happening. But I don't I isit a big deal? I don't.
I don't necessarily think it's it's thatbig of a deal. Yet, I
think once you get into Okay,people are on the field doing stuff together.
I think that's when you want yourone hundred tennis and their actual program,
the official one listed by the NFLdoesn't even start until the almost the

(18:40):
end of May, so there's theyhaven't even gotten into. This is phase
one. There's always multiple phase,multiple phases. Yeah, it's hard to
keep track sometimes the phases. What'sthe phase where the percentage of people showing
up matters? I don't know.It's called a day one of training camp.
As far as I'm concerned, correct, that's the most important time.
I don't think it shows I don'tthink it's a sign of discord, if

(19:00):
that's what you're asking. All right, Uh, you know, next week
we have a lot of draft totalk about, but I want to see
what yet we have yet to minewhen it comes to draft topics, are
content in your opinion? Will dothat? I'm going to ask you a
question you asked me yesterday in yourpodcast about your New Heights experience with Joe
Burrow and Travis Kelcey and Jason Kelseyand Orlando Brown at UC last week,

(19:25):
and perhaps the most important question ofthe off season needs to be asked,
and I will ask it coming upin about twenty minutes. Wow. On
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Sincythree sixty with Tony Pike. Do we
want to move on? For doctorKeith Gorse and Boston Elmore. I think
you should continue to let me keepgoing there, Sincy three sixty tomorrow which
twelve noons on ESPN fifteen thirty.Is there a service of Kelsey Chevrolet Home

(19:51):
of lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed creditapproval from their family to yours for life?
Kelseyshev dot Com, Reds and Marinersagain tonight in Seattle nine forty this
evening, Hunter Green, Logan Gilbert, pair of varieties. Cincinnati losing last
night, they should try to notdo that this evening. The game is
live on seven hundred WLW. Ithink that said for local sports headlines,
at least it is for this hour. Paul Danner Junior's here. What's up?

(20:15):
Any headlines from Bengals local workouts andstuff from the local workouts? Okay,
no, but we were there andI'm sure that was really exciting.
Yeah, it was. Are thereany draft topics or issues that we haven't
spent time on that we need todiscuss before next week, specifically as they

(20:37):
relate to the Bengals. Yeah,I mean, I feel it feels like
we've kicked over a lot of rocksat this point that there's not too many
left. What have we talked?How much have we talked about in tier?
Offensive line? In center? Okay? Does that feel like something we
haven't done yet so? Or doesthat feel like something that we have done

(20:59):
but we've forgotten? So in mylittle plan here, yeah, I mean,
I believe it or not. Ido try to plan some stuff out.
It's in the plan. Yeah.So the first question was what's not
yet been discussed about the draft,and then it was odds they draft more
than one lineman? Really good?Really good? I think, you know,

(21:21):
one of the interesting things. Andand I actually talked to Dan about
this yesterday, so maybe he'll talkwith you about it again. Talk to
him later. Wow. But youknow this is you know, the all
of the love is gonna go tothe offensive tackles. They're they're getting all
the headlined, they're gonna be theones at the top of the draft.
They're gonna get all the the highlights, and you're gonna get Kyper talking over

(21:45):
all their attributes, but the depthof this draft, the like you can
really do some damage is on theinterior offensive line later and and that could
be an area that would very nicelyfit this team, you know. And
and Dane, you know, Iknow he's even gonna have I'm not gonna

(22:07):
spoil his mock draft tomorrow for theBengals, but maybe a surprising second round
pick that some people didn't see comingthat is in the interior. And I
don't think that that's out of thequestion. Look, they have to rebuild
inside and outside. I mean,they're you're looking at the oldest position group
on the team by a Yeah,you know, you've got obviously Kris in
the last year of his deal,and no one wants to see Ted Carris

(22:30):
go. But look, I don'tknow how many of these guys we got
to see that eve until we seewhat the strategy ends up being. No
matter how beloved or or core towhat they are, he can still stick
around him. Sell Hats, Ihave no problem with any of it.
He's trying to play center as faras I'm concerned. But we know what's
happened with players here. So andKappa, you know, he's got two
years left on his deal, buthe's an older player as well. Volson

(22:53):
two years left. Are they gonnawant to bring him back? You know?
There's the point being like, theydon't really have any backups that you
love exactly, so there's a lotthere to try to need to build the
same way that they still need tobuild a tackle. So it would be
stunning with ten picks if you didn'tcome away with one tackle and one interior

(23:18):
player. And I think either ofthose could be aggressive swings. We've talked
a lot about how aggressive the tackleswing could be, but I don't I
don't think it would be stunning.I it would be stunning if they did
it in round one. But youcould have somebody like Fatanya, who's a
versatile piece who could play anywhere alongthe line, or some of these guys
that are kind of guards tackles Foggathe same way from Oregon State, who

(23:41):
could give you a little bit ofboth for now, even if they're your
tackle the future. But I thinkin round two you're talking about a guard
center is in play. That's notimpossible likely. I wouldn't say likely,
but it's certainly not impossible. AndI think at any point in that set
the two thirds, the early fourth. One of those I think would would

(24:04):
feel right to be an interior offensivelineman and certainly somebody that has potential to
Okay, you get to this pointnext year and you and you can say
they're ready to take over or they'renot. Let's let's extend Ted Carris.
You know, so they have twothrees, right, yeah, so could
you would the least surprising just positionally, would the least surprising outcome through Friday

(24:30):
be a tackle, an interior lineman, a d tackle, and a wide
receiver, not necessarily in that order. That would probably be what I would
the first four packs the first twodays, that's probably that's probably. I
think the interior offensive lineman is theback is the last of that group,
and and I would have a dBand I'd have a corner in there,

(24:52):
mm hmm, like along with interioroffensive line is either way you probably see
that going. It's kind of anextra see, but I yeah, I
think that's probably the group. Yeah, it's interesting given that we've talked so
much about the need for a defensivetackle that we're now sliding it lower on
the positional Well, I don't knowif I'm sliding. There's just the likelihood

(25:15):
of it happening in round one isByron Murphy and right right, I mean
right, I mean yeah, that'sso barring the trade back stuff. I
mean you're talking about he's he's theguy. I mean, he's the guy.
And you know, it's funny,it's we're doing that. We're doing
what happens every draft season right now. Yeah. Yes, we start at
a place yes, way back when, yes, where we were like man

(25:37):
Byron Murphy or the tackles, rightyeah, and then we end up in
all these different places and maybe isBidron Murphy even good enough? Right?
Well, these tackles, I don'tknow, maybe they should be looking at
something else. And now we're rightback and it's like where we started.
It's like, yeah, I mean, Murphy the tackle. It's what's awesome
about the pre draft process. It'swhat's exhausting about the pre draft process.
You know, it's it's we alwaysit always happens every year where you end

(25:59):
up right back where you started.You know, you have to tinker around
the fringes and you come right backto like, yeah, it's probably what
I said at the beginning. Now, you know, that's what it does
feel like right now, you knowand and and so they'll be hunting those
positions. I do think I justyou outside Murphy's it's his own conversation,

(26:22):
but like, God, you justdon't want to be taking chances with Joe
Burrow's health and second and third roundtackles. The drop off and the expectations
are so significant, even if you'retaking guy to develop behind Trent Brown,
like, it's just such a risk. Well that I just I don't I
don't like it for anybody but Murphy. Basic you said something on the podcast

(26:48):
that you had me on two weeksago that I have taken and run with,
which is, if you want toeventually build an elite offensive line,
that's only going to happen if youstart nailing it in the draft, and
your odds of nailing in the draftper position increase the earlier you go.
Yeah, right, if the approchensiveline, especially so because there's just only
so many guys that have everything youwant and that's a hard position. Yeah,

(27:11):
look at all the money they havespent their offensive line and you got
to eat a year of them notbeing very good at it. Yeah,
Look, there even the best ofthe best usually year one. Yikes,
you're just hoping to get average atbest and then that they're really good by
year two. The Bengals set themselvesup nicely, but like that's how you
got to be able to do it. You have to do it for the
draft or else you're in crazy placeshaving to spend amount of money you don't

(27:34):
want to spend in losing your value. All Right, the most important question
of the off season is coming upnext. He's Paul Danner Junior at the
Athletic dot Com, The Growler Podcast, and on Twitter on x at Paul
Danner Jr. I can't wait tofind this out. This is two times
you've teased this and I still don'tknow. You won't even tell me during
the break. No, I justleave the room during the break. Let

(27:55):
you sit in here in silence.It is a quarter to four ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station the NFL Draftto Cincinnati Bengals selects. He's an ESPN
fifteen to thirty Cruise Development orangin BlackDraft profile. Que's Cruise presented by Pellow
Windows, Indoors Greater Cincinnati and NorthernKentucky, Boxer Gas and HOLMANRV dot com.

(28:21):
Now here's Moegger with a name youneed to know. With Tyler Boyd
hitting free agency, the Bengals coulduse this year's draft to find a replacement
in the slot. One player whocould fill that role as Michigan wide out
Roman Wilson. Wilson led last year'sNational champions in receiving, and he was
a second team All Big Ten playerfor the Wolverines. Wilson is a sure

(28:42):
handed pass catcher. He only hadone drop in sixty seven targets last season,
and he could be explosive with morethan a third of his catches going
for more than twenty yards. Healso had twelve touchdown receptions last season.
He does have what scouts call asmallish frame, and given that he played
almost in entirely in the slot incollege, there's likely a limit as to

(29:03):
how he can be used. Still, Wilson has a combination of speed and
reliability with his hands that make himan intriguing prospect. Keep an eye on
Michigan wide receiver Roman Wilson has morelistening for the next player profile on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home ofthe Bengals. They're more identity threads,

(29:25):
A ten away from four, anotherfew minutes with our friend Paul Danner Junior,
Theathletic dot Com and The Growler Podcast, a few more items. I'm
not on the edge of my seatright now. I'm the meme where you
sit up now that we're back,after you've teased this question twice and I
still don't know. Please, theNational Football League is allowing teams to have

(29:49):
a third helmet. Well, theBengals have a third helmet, this was
the question. And what will itlook like? Let me tell you something.
I know my audience, all right, it's just fair, I know
me. Okay, we could spendanother eight eight minutes on could they take
a center in round six? Orwho's the punter that might challenge Brad Robbins

(30:10):
or something that I think is farmore interesting. Third helmet? Fair?
Are they getting one? I doyou want them to get one? I
do me too. Yeah, Ithink there's no question what they should be
doing here. Though, here's thething I don't like. I don't like
the oh switch, the stripe color, the stripes on they see any like,

(30:33):
you know, special helmet with likeFiona on the front, the over
field. Please, I have alot of fuel. It takes that I'm
gonna save because I can go onetoo. I don't want I don't want
to do that. Here how she'sa lovely hippo. I will say this.
You gotta do the throwback to thesixties, like sixty seventy, the

(30:56):
early the early jersey. You gottahave the orange helmet with the bays script
and the brown with the orange stripeon the show like you Ken Anderson jerseys,
right, Like, yes, that, but don't do the helmet that.
You're not gonna do anything with thehelmet unless it's connected to a full
throwback situation with that. And that'swhat that's what you need. That's what's
the only thing that's missing from theirtheir portfolio of jerseys and helmets, so

(31:21):
to speak, is an ode tothe early days. Like and let's get
Zach Taylor with the Paul Brown doorthing rocking, you know what I mean,
Like, let's go, let's goall the way in. Okay,
So I'm kind of with you.Here's what I want. You want something?
What I want? That original logo, that original Bengals logo. Yes
on a white helmet one side,a big orange stripe down the middle and

(31:45):
the other side jersey number. Iam a sucker for helmets that have numbers
on them. The logo with thelike tiger running with that helmet popping it
kind of looks like he's drunk.Yes, I love that logo, really,
yes, i'd that's what I want. Awful and that logo is is
awesome. Why is he? Whyis he running? Why is he wearing

(32:05):
a helmet? Why is it poppingoff? Why didn't strap it on?
Better football? Tiger? He shouldn'tbe but he is. And wait,
there's way too much happening. There'sway too much intricate action in that logo.
You know, it's better Bengals.Bengals is born at in the seventies,
so why should And if you're lookingat it from a distance, they
look like the Browns. If you'relooking at from a distance, you don't

(32:25):
even know what you're looking at.On the other logo, it's is that
a helmet popping off of a helmet? How meta is this? I think?
Well, the Miami Dolphins used tohave a dolphin with a helmet on
it. It was stupid too,it was awesome. Those helmets were cool
as hell. The dolphin me whitehelmet. Okay, orange stripe down the
middle, no black on it.Not opposed to black, but we do

(32:46):
black too much. They give methe original on one side and a jersey
number on the other side, andI'll buy that helmet. And what's the
jersey that goes with this helmet?Come up with it? I don't know,
come up with it. Come upwith it. No, say this
is no. Don't when you designa helmet, I can't design a jersey.
Well, you need to think ofthe big picture. You can't just

(33:07):
think of one item. Okay,this all needs to coordinate. Okay,
just give me a variation of theorange jersey they have now that is maybe
a little bit vintage. I don'tcare. I just want the white helmet,
the old tiger and the big orangestripe with the number on the side.
The old Tiger's the worst. Ilook, there's cool as Now your
better in football than number on thehelmet. I I don't have a problem

(33:29):
with number on the helmet, that'sfine. Why can't you have Bengals on
one side number a helmet on theother. Why can't you have the Tigers?
It's stupid? Okay, because thehelmet popping off of the Tigers.
How many other teams have a helmetwhere it just says name of the team
Jets. You want to be likethe Jets? No, okay, who

(33:51):
else? Is not about It's notabout being like other teams? Part of
your history? No kidding, Butdangles on the jersey. It's already there.
How the other team to have ananimal with a helmet popping off of
it? Uh? Probably none?But that logo is that logo is cool?
I find another way to use thelogo, Make it big, put
it on midfield. How about thatthat that's what you want, that's with

(34:15):
the new field. I'd be finewith that at least see what it is,
even though I don't. I justdon't want that silly putty taty.
The leaping Tiger. Yes, Idon't want to leap Tigers. Terrible Leaping
Tigers are old Bengals Tigers. There'ssuch a ground swell for the leaping Tiger
either. There does seem to bea lot of that out there that people

(34:36):
really like it, and I justI've I never really have felt like it's
something worth replicating again. But thatsaid, there's an entire decade of this
team's history at the very beginning,by the way, that has just been
forgotten. Okay, that had alot of good players to play there in
those jerseys, in that helmet.So this is a chance to bring that
back. That's the answer. Notentirely opposed. But I've I've I've driven

(34:59):
this, I've driven this train nowfor a while off the rails. I
want my white helmet. You askedme for my thoughts on being at the
New Heights podcast, but you hadto go there and cover it in case
Joe Burrow said something interesting. Doyou think he did? No, the
built to beat the Chiefs thing is, is that what we're debating. They
are? They are, yes,they are. They purposely built themselves to

(35:22):
beat the Ravens and the Chiefs becausethey have seen the direction that Lamar and
Patrick Mahomes were taking things, andthey did that. In fact, they've
done that on the way through theplayoffs couple of times and through the division
and so that's yeah. I don'tthink that that is I thought that was
an honest statement and not a shot, not at all. Everyone should be

(35:43):
building their teams to beat the Chiefs. By the way, Yes, maybe
somebody in the afcust should consider itbecause they're not doing it. Yeah,
you should be trying to build yourteam to beat the Chiefs because you're not
winning anything unless you go through PatrickMahomes. So yeah, I don't think
that should be controversial. It's tobe controversial when a team is not doing
that. Did you have fun atthe podcast? It was. It was

(36:06):
a fun atmosphere in a lot ofways. It was kind of like if
you went to a basketball game andno basketball happened. It was like midnight
madness. Yeah, exactly exactly whereit was fun. Everyone was there to
have a good time, and youknow, they played the songs and everybody
likes and everybody was dancing and seemedto be pretty happy and enjoying themselves,
especially the people participating. And JoeBurrow came out and everyone yelled and high

(36:29):
pitched voices and screamed, and theywere very happy about that too. So
I'm glad everyone had a good time. It's fun to do something different.
How'd you guys do with your baseballcoaching debut? W you know a forfeit?
You out man? Look, gettingthe players to the field for the
first game is the hardest part ofthe season, probably, right, and

(36:50):
we successfully completed that task and theother team couldn't do it. It's not
any against other team sures, it'sjust it happens, right, But I
am gonna personally feel good about that. Your lovely wife posted a photo of
you and your daughter. Yeah,Jersey, Yeah, did you have a
full uniform? No, it's it'sit's just a They give you a shirt
and a hat. I just I'veseen little league coaches, little League dads

(37:14):
were the pants. Trust me,there was. Everybody had a bag,
so they're all bagged up, andso I picked, you know, they
give you up. I went andI opened the bag and I said,
please no pants, please, nopants, please, no pants. And
because I just and there weren't justshorts, T shirt, hat, perfect
standard as it should be, standardoperating procedure. Okay, you know what,

(37:37):
first grade girls aren't big fans ofbaseball pants. They don't feel good,
they don't look good, like,nothing about it like, So maybe
we need some advancements in the firstgrade base But I'm a baseball pants like,
I don't mind them. When Iwas a kid, I liked wearing
especially with stirrup, no question.But yeah, no, not not the

(38:00):
case. Not the case for mydaughter, but had a great time regardless,
you know, so, I mean, yeah, yeah, I guess
what's what the they tell us?They tell us to send in whether you
want or lost to somebody. SoI we so I do that. I
don't what does that person do withthat information? I assume they're standings.
I don't know. I hope not. I'm just relaying information, Okay,

(38:25):
I'm the guy with the big bag. Yeah, okay, that just trying
to make sure everybody knows where we'resupposed to be playing. Very good,
all right. I know you havea busy next nine days plus in front
of it. Yeah, so lookingforward to it. Next great, next
Tuesday, the pre draft spectacular.How's that gonna be different than what we've
been doing. I don't know.You're gonna have all new things written down.
Yeah, I'll have another angle onthe helmets. Yeah. I can't

(38:52):
wait. I can't wait to seewhat the next thing could be. When
does the Dane Burglar podcast come out? Tomorrow? All Trenches, All the
Time, myself, Jay, Dane, Nate Tice all in tomorrow's episode of
PD ANDJ. Get that where youget your podcasts? Read Paulvieathletic dot Com
and uh, we'll talk to younext week. Looking forward to it.
Paul Dayner Junior as we get setfor the draft a week from Thursday,

(39:15):
and he's got to cover at theAthletic dot Com. Follow him on x
at Paul Dayner Junior. Dan Brugleris going to join us at five thirty
three. Frankie Montas was terrible lastnight. Ellie Deevila Cruz at Shortstop was
not. We'll get to that next. It's four o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty
Sports Up. I'm Christine Leaci.When the Bucks open up their first round

(39:40):
NBA Playoff series against the Pacers Sunday, Janis Antetokoupo will likely be a spectator.
According to ESPN's Adrian Morjanowski, Milwaukee'spreparing to be without the two time
league MVP for the start of theseries. They hope treatment on his CAS
strain allows him to return at somepoint in the series. Lakers power forward
Anthony Davis question against the Pelagans tonightthe West seven eight to seven play in

(40:01):
matchup West nine to ten play inTonight, Kings and Warriors, despite sputtering
down the stretch. Sacramento will getthe better of this win or go home
matchup, predicts ESPNS Andrea Carter.First one's in Sacramento. Second one.
Sacramento is going to be fired upfrom what happened last season when the Warriors
knocked them out of the playoffs.And then, if you think about it,
this has been a close game.The last three times these teams have

(40:22):
played has been decided by one point. The Aaron Fox is averaging twenty seven
points against the Warriors in the lastten times that he's played them. Kings
Warriors, nine thirty Eastern ESPN RadioMichigan got three years probation, was fined
and hit with recruiting restrictions for recruitingviolations during the pandemic under former football coach
Jim Harbaugh. As humans, welike having options. One option you might

(40:46):
like is speaking with a real personwhen you call about your credit card,
which twenty four to seven live USbased customer service from Discover. Everyone can
talk to a real person anytime,day or night. In visions apply.
Sometimes I seve dot COM's lash.This report is fifteen thirty. All right,
that's us. Good afternoon. OnMoegger This is ESPN fifteen thirty.

(41:09):
I appreciate you listening. Thank youso much for joining us. Awesome stuff
from Paul Danders junior. Chad Brendle'sgoing to be with us short notice.
In just about fifteen minutes, uSE has gotten another player out of the
portal. Arrington Page, who wasrecruited by UC, ultimately chose to go
to a USC along with Isaiah Collier. Obviously a coaching change there with Andy

(41:34):
Enfield leaving USC to go to SMUand then think of the dominoes that fell
that anyway. Arrington Page, sixfoot eleven, two hundred and forty five
pound kid who last year didn't necessarilyput up big numbers but top sixty player
consensus across the board, chose USCahead of you see hits the portal and
just announced a few minutes ago onhis social media that he is joining Connor

(42:00):
Hickman, who's the player who's announcedhis transfer from Bradley to UC. Arrington
Page joins Connor Hickman in coming toplay for Wes Miller at the University of
Cincinnati. Bearcats desperately needed a bigConnor Hickman is not one. Arrington Page
is. I mean if you lookat what they had as of last night,
basically one experience big in disease bandego. So we'll talk about how the

(42:23):
piece is fit and what may happennext for the Bearcats. Chad Brendel literally
saw the Errington Page News texted himhe is going to join us coming up
in just about twelve minutes. Thatfeels like very good news for the Bearcats.
Also very good news for you ifyou love Aerosmith. All week long,
we're giving away Aerosmith tickets Steven Tylerand Company coming to the Heritage Bank

(42:45):
Center October seventeenth. Tickets are onsale now, but you can win them.
Yesterday we played a game because theReds are playing the Mariners. Last
night they lost, which we'll getto in a second, and we decided
to test your knowledge of these airedhistory of the Reds and the Seattle Mariners.
You know, David Bell played onthe greatest Seattle Mariners team of all

(43:07):
time. He is, obviously,also the manager of the Cincinnati Reds.
David Bell has been the manager ofthe red since twenty nineteen. He is
a member of one of Cincinnati's greatbaseball families. So today at four thirty
three. We're going to test yourDavid Bell knowledge give you a chance to
go see Aerosmith in October. PlusBrendanman and Jones on baseball. Later on

(43:30):
in the show, our buddy DanBrugler from The Athletic on his big,
big, voluminous NFL Draft guide.The ballgame last night, I will admit
to you I couldn't watch the firsttwo innings. I didn't really have access
to the first two innings aside fromwhat I was watching on my phone,
which was Frankie Montas having a completeand total inability to throw a strike.

(43:55):
And then when I sat down towatch it this morning, what I saw
matched well what I what I gatheredfrom watching on my phone. Frankie Mantass
didn't have it. I was listeningto Austin and Toni earlier today talk about
Frankie kind of nibbling on the cornersand the velocity being down and him looking
like he wasn't right. I'm notprepared to say that there's something wrong with

(44:21):
him, but watching this morning,just look like a completely different pitcher than
the guy we even saw in hisfirst three starts, but certainly his first
two starts he walked five guys lastnight, I thought it was interesting that
David Bell brought him back out forthe for the third inning, when you
know, there are just certain nightswhere it feels like, you know what,

(44:43):
our guy doesn't have it. JeffCarr from Locked on Red said,
you know, he believed that DavidBell kind of punted on the game.
I don't. I don't know.I don't know about that. I do
think he kind of didn't use alot of urgent early, and you might
argue the sixteenth game of the seasondoesn't demand a lot of urgency. As

(45:06):
good as this team though, hasbeen since the beginning of last year.
Coming back once he gave up thethe two run homer to Hanneger in the
third inning to make it five toone, you kinda knew. And yeah,
they muscled back into it. TheJake Frayley double which was really not
a double but a double, madeit five to two. Uh, and

(45:28):
then he hits the homer it makesit six to three. He never felt
like they were going to win thatgame. Frankie Montas, I'll chalk it
up to just one of those nights. That's what David Bell was doing after
the game, just one of thosenights it happens. Hopefully it doesn't happen
all that often. Tonight, alleyes turned to Hunter Green. Does the
roller coaster continue? Last start notgood? Previous start good? What do

(45:50):
the Reds get tonight? I soundlike a tough critic of Hunter Greens,
and it's I'm not. I'm lookman more than anybody. I've talked about
how hard it is to do whatthe Reds are trying to do, which
is to try to win the divisionwith a bunch of guys who are still
developing. And central to that isHunter Green, who tonight makes his fiftieth
big League start. But my goalfor Hunter Green is for him to develop

(46:15):
a reliability that makes his bad startsstand out for being surprising. Unfortunately,
that is yet to happen. Sowhen he has a bad start, they're
not a surprise because they still happenway too frequently. What do the Reds
get tonight? Your guess is asgood as mine. That can't be.
Where we are long term with HunterGreen, when we know he's going to

(46:37):
get the ball, it can't be. Your guess is as good as mine.
I have no idea, You haveno idea. Hopefully tomorrow we're talking
about a good hunter, green start. Not a great night at to play
for Elie de la Cruz, buthe did do this in the field and
visit mlbtogether dot com slash forty twomore popped up shallow left field, out

(47:01):
goes dey la Cruz and he makesa sliding cat for this back to the
infield. A sensational crab by thered shortstop and shallow left Wow Tommy Thrawl
with the analysis from Chris Welsh onthe REDS Radio network and seven hundred WLW
just a ridiculous amount of ground covered. The catch probability of that ball was

(47:23):
at five percent. I don't thinkthere is a shortstop alive who makes that
play. Just a pure speed play, some instincts involved there too, a
great catch, it goes for naughtbecause they lose the game. Now the
obvious takeaway and I get it becauseEllie's fielding at shortstop has come under a

(47:45):
lot of scrutiny, and deservedly so. There have been times where he just
has failed to make the simple play. He's had some throwing issues, He's
had some balls that have hit himin the pocket of his glove and he
doesn't make it. Last night.He makes a sensational play that may be
evidence, and a lot of folkswere using it last night as evidence as

(48:05):
to why he's gonna be fine atshortstop. And there is something to be
said about having an athlete of Ellie'scaliber at shortstop. But to take away
from me watching that last night,was that dude who I watched run from
next to second base to weigh downthe left field line to make that grab.
Can you imagine the amount of groundhe would cover in center field?

(48:30):
Look, he has yet to establishhimself as an everyday shortstop, and if
he does, we're not going tohave this conversation. And nobody is suggesting
that they just go ahead and blindlyput him in center field when he has
yet to play a game out thereas a pro. But given his speed
and just raw physical tools, excuseme, I don't know how you don't

(48:54):
imagine how that could translate to himbeing a really good defensive center fielder.
I'm not saying put him out thereright now. I'm saying two things.
A until he firmly establishes himself somewhereelse like shortstop, and B when you
watch him do what he did lastnight, how do you not imagine what

(49:15):
it would be like watching him gofrom from gap to gap? It would
be majestic. Combine that with thethrowing arm. Are you kidding me?
It's gonna sound like a criticism tosome and it's not meant to be,
Like try him a short stop.I'm all in, By the way,
what else you got right now?But God, there are times I watch

(49:36):
him do the things that he cando athletically. I just I imagine that
play last night. I'm just thinkingto myself, imagine watching him go from
right center to left center to takeaway extra bases or to cut down a
ball in the gap and come upthrowing. How do you watch that last

(49:57):
night and not have your mind goto this same place mine went to five
point three seven four nine fifteen thirtyeight six six seven oh two three seven
seven six. Arrington Page says he'stransferring from USC to UC, hitting the
portal, coming to Clifton a yearafter uh taking his talents to SOCOW.

(50:19):
What does he bring to wes Miller'sprogram? What does Connor Hickman bring to
wes Miller's program? Chad Brendle tellsus next, and it's a way this
is ESPN fifteen thirty on Oeger.We're giving away Aerosmith tickets in just about
ten minutes. If you think youknow a lot about David Bell, Cincinnati
born and bred, good big leaguecareer and he's doing a good job as

(50:45):
manager of the Reds. If youthink you know a lot about David Bell,
well, you could win Aerosmith ticketsin just about ten minutes. Uh.
First, though, it's it's abusy time for college basketball programs.
Connor Hickman's coming from Bradley to theUniversity of Cincinnati, and he announced just
about twenty minutes or so ago.Arrington Page, who started his college basketball

(51:07):
career at USC announced on social mediathat I guess he said he's coming to
Cincinnati University. I gotta be honestwith you. He ain't call it whatever
the hell he wants, as longas he's good. Chad Brendle's with a
spearcat journal dot com to tell iftell us if he's good. Is he
good? He has a chance tobe really good. I mean, you
know, people look at his numbersand they're not great from last year.

(51:31):
But guess what, there are avery few freshman dig mean that had great
numbers last year. That's just thenature of being a young big. He's
also young for where he's at inhis college career. I believe he just
turned nineteen going into a sophomore yearin college, and some of these guys

(51:51):
are like twenty one going into theirsecond year in college. So the potential
is there. The key being he'ssix' eleven, he can run the
floor, He's got some skill tohim. He's pretty good in the pick
and roll, which is so prominentin college basketball right now. So there

(52:13):
are a lot of attributes that peoplereally love about Arrenton Page and this coaching
staff with obviously the way they recruitedhim out of high school and now getting
him after a year at UFC.They are very very high on Arrenton Page.
Walk me through his recruiting profile beforehe turned down UC to go to

(52:35):
USC. So he kind of wasone of those kids that really shot up
the rankings leading into his senior year. Some of that was he played with
Isaiah Collier, who is a generationaltalent passing the basketball, and obviously when
you play with when you're a bigguy playing with Isaiah Collier, he makes

(52:59):
you look really really good. Andbecause of that, he saw his profile
go from virtually unknown to top fiftyrecruit. If he was a little more
consistent, he probably could have risenup to top twenty five five star status.
But my understanding is he had monothrough the end of that summer and

(53:23):
into his senior year, and thathurt his production and development a little bit.
A fully healthy Arentente Page is aguy that fits what modern basketball looks
like. Is he a guy you'regoing to be able to just post up
on the block and throw them theball and get a bucket. At this
point in his career, that's anarea he still needs some work. But

(53:45):
like I said, he can reallyplay in the pick and roll. He
can pop and shoot it a littlebit, and it's just really difficult to
find six to eleven guys that havethe type of coordination and athleticism that he
has. So, you know,rim runner, shot blocker, he can

(54:05):
do all those things. And asyou project into twenty twenty four twenty twenty
five, you see basketball kind ofa perfect compliment to us. He's mandego
and and the way that they usehim. We you and I have talked
a lot about Connor Hickman and thepotential for him to come to UC.
Obviously, Bearkat fans had a chanceto watch him when when he was with

(54:27):
Bradley and the Braves came here.In the niit he averaged fourteen and a
half a game. What stands outis over forty percent shooting the ball from
the outside. How does his gameproject to the Big twelve? Well,
that was all over that one,wasn't I you were from day one.
Actually, the forty percent from twois really really good. That let me

(54:50):
from three is really really good.Did you know he's the guy that shot
over fifty percent from two. Butthis is not Jack Golkey that shot three
hundred threes and eight twos. Thisis a guy that's a three point shooter.
But if you close out too aggressively, he is going to be able
to pump fake and beat you tothe rim. He is a guy that

(55:12):
plays really well cutting off the ball, which is something we didn't see a
lot of from Cincinnati a year ago. This didn't have a lot of guys
that were good at it. Hehas a great feel for the game and
you know, I really think hegives you a great compliment. If you've
got a three or four man rotationat the one and the two between Dayde

(55:37):
Thomas, Gisel, James Connor,Hickman, c J. Frederick, who's
still on the roster. I thinkyou're in a much much better spot than
you were a year ago. Ijust didn't say I think Dan Skillings fits
better as a three, and Ithink without CJ last year you were really

(55:58):
hurt by not having an effective twoguard on the roster. Hickman is going
to give you that two guard that'sgot some scoring pop and is going to
increase your overall basketball like you onthe floor when he's out there, and
then this team was sorely lacking thatlast year. Okay, so now the
obvious question, who's next? Nowthey get They're in kind of a fun

(56:22):
spot though, right You've got twelveguys on scholarship that you think can help
you. You got one spot open. You can go get another two,
you know, a score slasher kindof a guy that is different than Hickman
but plays the same spot where youcan can rotate them. You can go

(56:46):
get a starting level four man andthat would maybe move Siemas up one spot
and you can have a little bitmore flexibility at the three and the four,
you can you know, you cango get the guy that's kind of
a combo four or five guy thatcan give you minutes at both of those
positions. So I think there's stilla lot of options on the table.

(57:10):
And the beautiful part of where they'reat right now, there's a lot of
talk that Jeff Goodman just treated thisearlier. There's a bunch of high profile
guys that are still waiting to gettheir final nil checks of the year from
the nil deals they signed a yearago, and then they're going to enter
the portal. So Cincinnati is notin a panic now. They are not

(57:32):
rushing guys in and off campus tosee what sticks and what they need.
And you know, a year ago, this thing played out all the way
into May, like mid late May, and now you've got one spot open
that is a luxury spot that youdon't really have a glaring weakness on this
team anymore. So if you're WesMiller, like you can kind of sit

(57:53):
back and just say, hey,let's see, let's see how the chips
fall, and we might be ableto even make our I'll be even better,
but we're not desperate to do so. And when you're in this situation
and you don't have that desperation factor, you make a lot less mistakes.
Yep, not being desperate. It'sa good place to be. I appreciate

(58:15):
you jumping on short notice. Man, Thanks so much. No problem,
I'm gonna go into Costco now.There you go. Good luck. A
lot. More on this at Bearcatjournal dot com. Thank you so much.
Make sure you follow Chad on Twitterslash x at Chad Brendle. It's
twenty nine minutes after four o'clock.Arrington Page is going to come to a

(58:37):
UC from USC. Dane Burglar isgoing to come on our show in an
hour and talk about the draft andBengals offensive line prospects and some of the
decisions they may have to make withthe eighteenth overall pick. I'm also interested.
Dane has been doing his draft guidefor years. Dax Hill's role on
the team is very fluid. Rightnow, we can do what his role

(59:00):
is, what it should be ifhe has won. I want to go
back to two years ago with Daneand see what he projected Dax to be
as a pro when he was inthe twenty twenty two draft coming out of
the University of Michigan. Will dothat and talk about all the current draft
topics with Dane coming up in onehour. Aerosmith is coming to the Heritage

(59:20):
Bank Center on October the seventeenth.Tickets are on sale right now, but
you can win them. We aregiving away tickets every day this week.
We gave away a pair yesterday.We're going to give away a pair right
now. We make you work forthem, or we at least make you
call in for them and either playour game or be the person who does
nothing. So we are looking fortwo contestants, and we are going to

(59:43):
test your knowledge of perhaps the bestmanager in the National League Central David Bell,
who at one time played for theSeattle Mariners. Obviously is from Cincinnati,
had a good big league career,played in a World Series, UH,
and is part of one of thegreat baseball families in the United States.

(01:00:04):
So we're going to test your knowledgeof Reds manager David Bell. We
need two contestants five one, three, seven, four, nine, fifteen
thirty at eight six, six,seven oh two three seven seven six and
uh we'll see if we can giveaway these tickets to go see Aerosmith in
October at the Heritage Bank Center.Sports headlines as well on ESPN fifteen thirty

(01:00:25):
Cincinnati Sports Station, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteenthirty Traffic October the tenth Aerosmith October the
tenth, No Octoba to seventeenth Aerosmithis coming to a Heritage Bank Center and
we're gonna give away tickets for justa second. First sports headlines are a

(01:00:46):
service of Kelsey chev Lane, homeof lifetime power train protection and guaranteed credit
approval from their family to yours forlife, kelseyshev dot Com. Game two
of three in Seattle. Tonight,Reds and Mariners, Hunter Green trying to
bounce back after a poor start lastweek against Milwaukee hellthrow against righty Logan Gilbert
ninety nine to four to oh Tonight'sfirst pitch. But by the way,

(01:01:09):
can I just I get it?If if the game is going to start
at nine to forty, even withthe pitch clock, chances are it's going
to end at midnight, a littlebit after midnight, if the game is
basically the average length, So Iunderstand that's late at night. When did
nine forty itself become late at night? Saw a lot of that yesterday.

(01:01:30):
I stayed up late to watch thisfeel to you like forty years ago,
people like stayed up late all thetime, and now he's in bed by
ten o'clock ninety tonight. If youcould stay awake. On seven hundred wlw
Arranton, page six eleven, kidwho played last season for usc says he

(01:01:52):
is transferring to the University of Cincinnati. It's a play for Wes Miller.
That's it for your local sports headline. All right, Tarren, are we
excited to play our game? Here? We ready to go? Ready to
go, We're ready to go?All right? We have we have Joe,
and we have we have Joe.How are you all good? And
then we have we have Mac aswell. Mac? How you doing great?

(01:02:15):
Oh well, no problem at all, Tarren? Are you are we
do? We have the virtual coinready to go to determine who's gonna play
and who's gonna wait we do Maccall it in the air, Matt's Mac's
gonna call it in the air.Go ahead, and Mac call it in
the air? Tails please, tailsplease? Wow? Man, that got
way up there, Tarreen. Whatdo we have? It is? Heads?
Okay? So that means Joe picksJoe, You're gonna play. You're

(01:02:37):
gonna sit I'll play. Joe wasgonna play, all right, Tarren,
go ahead and put Mac on hold. By now perhaps everybody knows how this
works. If not, we wehave five questions here. Joe has to
get three of them correct, andif he does, he's gonna go see
Aerosmith. If he fails to getthree of the five correct, then Mac

(01:02:59):
is gonna go see Aerosmith. Terrorthat I explained it correctly. You do
okay? Very good, Joe?Are you ready to go? I am?
Are you a baseball fan? Iam all right. Do you think
you know a lot about David Bell? I do okay, Well, here
we go. Are you related toDavid Bell? I am not okay?
Uh, here we go, Numberone? Question Number one. David Bell,

(01:03:22):
in his rookie season, played hisfirst game in Cincinnati while with the
Cardinals on August the twenty eighth,nineteen ninety five. David went zero for
three in that game, which waswon by Cincinnati five to two. The
Red's got a complete game from oneof the three pitchers who wasn't A Pete
Shurick, B. David Wells orC. Tim Pew What year with that

(01:03:47):
nineteen ninety five B B? Dowe get B. David Wells. Yes,
David Wells, who was traded forthat summer Reds gave us C J.
Nikelli to the Tigers. David Wellsjoined the Reds and pitch pretty well
through a complete game that night.Reds beat the Cardinals by a score of

(01:04:08):
five. Too. All right,he's one for one. He's got to
get two of the next four.Correct, Here we go. David Bell
played for a number of big leagueteams, six of them in total.
He played for six big league teams. Which of these teams did he not
play for? A The Milwaukee Brewers, B the San Francisco Giants, or
C the Detroit Tigers. H justsay oh very he said B. I

(01:04:33):
don't sound like he stepped on something. Yes, B. Didn't wait a
minute? What did he say?He said B? Or see? He
said see? Just say see see? Okay? See yes? Correct?
The host is confused. Yes seecorrect? See David Bell did not play
for the Detroit Tigers. All right, man, you're in good shape.
No one has ever blown a twozero lead before. So here we go.

(01:04:56):
He's got to get one of thenext three. Correct. U.
David Bell hit his first big leaguehomer in his hometown playing for the Cardinals.
Who did he hit it against?Who served it up? A John
Smiley, B. Mark Portugal,C. Scott Sullivan. A. We

(01:05:18):
have a no. Mark Portugal servedup David Bell's first career homer two days
after that game that I mentioned beforeAugust thirtieth, nineteen ninety four, nineteen
ninety five. I'm sorry, DavidBell went deep. Mark Portugal, Mark
Portugal. All right, very you'restill alive, still alive. Got to
get one of the next two,correct. David Bell played in the World

(01:05:41):
Series for the two thousand and twoGiants. They lost the series in seven
games to the Angels, and hehad a very good year. David Bell
led that team the National League champions. He led them in games played,
and he was fourth on the teamin home runs, with twenty three,
fewer than this former red A.Darren Lewis B. Greg Vaughan see Reggie

(01:06:03):
Sanders. See Reggie Sanders. ReggieSanders who played for like every team.
Reggie Sanders had twenty three homers thatyear. Perry Bonds and Jeff Kent led
the team, obviously, but DavidBell hit twenty homers. Mac, Congratulations,

(01:06:24):
you're gonna go see Aerosmith on Octoberthe seventeenth. Oh, Joe is
good. God, this worked outbetter. In rehearsal, I wrote down
Max's name for some reason. Joe, you're gonna go see Aerosmith. Matt
Mack. You're not gonna go doanything except probably suis because I screwed this
up. Joe, congratulations, enjoythe show. I'll see you there,

(01:06:44):
I'll see there. Thank you?All right? Very good? Joe,
congratulations. Could I have screwed thatup anymore? No? I liked the
fifth one? Here, the fifthone I liked? Will will tarn?
You want to play? Do youwant to answer to try to answer the
fifth one? Sure? Why not? Only one player? You know?
Buddy Bell played forever in the bigleagues. David Bell played forever in the

(01:07:08):
big leagues. They shared one commonteammate. Was it Joaquin andw Harr Oral
Hersheiser or Dennis Eckersley? Oh goodness, gracious, I'll go with the only
name on the oral her size.No, it was Dennis Eckersley, Hall
of famer, pitched for the seventyseven Indians, and Buddy Bell was on

(01:07:32):
that team. And then David Bell. He was teammates with eck on the
ninety six Cardinals. So there yougo. I just wrote that one as
an excuse to mention the name Joaquinand dow Harr, my favorite eighties baseball
name, Joaquin and dow Har.Anyway, Joe is gonna go see Aerosmith.
Do you think Mac has a lawsuitagainst us because we incorrectly said he

(01:07:55):
won them? I don't know whatyou can ask him? No, what
not? Because then what beef?I don't know. I don't know.
Well, I think what mac Mackcan call back tomorrow? MATC has a
chance to win tomorrow. Yes,I don't know what category we're gonna have
tomorrow. I think we might playa game revolving around bad Bengals draft picks
tomorrow. But we'll find out.We'll all find out together. And if

(01:08:16):
you don't want to try to wintickets to go see Aerosmith on that awful
segment, you could buy them.We can go to the Heritage Bank Center
box office. You can go toTicketmaster. You could enjoy yourself, go
watch Aerosmith. I'll be at thatconcert, so well, Mac, if
you win tickets, I'll buy youa beer. All right. It is
a quarter to five five win threeseven four nine, fifteen thirty eight six

(01:08:36):
six seven oh two three seven sevensix, What I'm wondering if I'm t
Higgins and more on what I wonderedwhen I saw what I saw last night
coming up on ESPN fifteen thirty CincinnatiSports Station. Since, hey, that's
me, I thought you were enjoyingthe song by Rihann Brendan Minna Jones on

(01:09:01):
baseball coming up in just a second. I mentioned during our goofy little game
that I screwed up there Joaquin andrewHart. That reminded me of the passing
of a guy who was not alocal baseball figure by any stretch. But
if you are my age and maybea little bit older and perhaps a little

(01:09:23):
bit younger, one of the Ithink central figures of baseball in the nineteen
eighties, Whitey Herzog, passed awayat the age of ninety two. I
think best remembered for his years withthe Saint Louis Cardinals, where they won
a World Series in nineteen eighty twoin a very controversial manner, lost the
World Series in nineteen eighty five,they had a three to one lead to

(01:09:43):
the Royals lost that lost the WorldSeries in eighty seven to the Minnesota Twins.
But you know, for a lotof us, you know that there
was a day and age, andyou could say this about the NFL too.
The teams were just so much moreidentify. I'd buy often who their
managers were, and the manager wasin place for such a long time.

(01:10:05):
And just like you know, whenI was a kid, if you said
LA Dodgers Tommy las Horda, andif you said Saint Louis Cardinals, it
was Whitey Herzog. And that wasn'tthe case in every city, but it
was much more of the case thenthan it is now. And I'm not
saying that's for the better or forthe worst. But when I was a

(01:10:25):
kid, the said Louis Cardinals werealways kind of like as an adult,
the said Louis Cardinals always good.But I thought about them a lot over
the last two years because the Redsspecifically have leaned into what the modern rules
kind of encourage, which is,you know, stealing bases, taking the

(01:10:45):
extra base, taking advantage of speed. When I think of, like the
years that I fell in love withbaseball, those Cardinals teams, they played
a brand that was so fun towatch and so annoying if you were rooting
for the team they were playing against. Where you know, they built a
team to their ballpark specifications. WhereBush Stadium back in the day was just

(01:11:10):
huge and expansive, and it wasartificial turf, and it felt like up
and down the order, they justhad guys who could fly, Guys who
could hit the ball in the gap, Guys who as soon as they got
on base, they were running andforced the defense to make a play.
Just put so much pressure on theother team's defense. And I don't know
that we're really getting back to thatera. We don't have AstroTurf anymore,

(01:11:31):
which is good, but that's likethe brand of baseball I grew up loving,
and central to it was this figurewho just felt like baseball managers back
then felt like larger than life.I'm too younger who have remembered Sparky Anderson
with the Cincinnati Reds, But youknow, when I was a kid and

(01:11:53):
you said Detroit Tigers, it wasSparky Anderson. In the San Francisco Giants,
it was Roger Craig, and therewere the Montreal Expos, And I
don't know why this comes to myit was Buck Rogers. I just I
was. I read of his passingtoday and I just I thought I would.
It was like to watch them perfecta brand of baseball that was so

(01:12:15):
fun to watch, and that theReds have borrowed a little tiny shred off
now that Cardinals team also had alot of high contact guys, didn't have
a lot of guys who struck out, and again played to AstroTurf, played
to their park. The Reds don'tplay on AstroTurf. They play in a
hitters park. They have guys whostrike out. But for them forty six,

(01:12:38):
like mid eighties, mid to lateeighties, they were always on TV.
They were always good, always funto watch, and always if you
were rooting for the team that theywere playing, so annoying to play against
Brandanman and Jones on baseball Next Cincinnati'sESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the UC

(01:12:59):
Health Ethics Center. Regular screenings arekey for early cancer detection, especially for
breast, lung and collarectal cancers.Schedule yours now at the University of Cincinnati
Cancer Center called five one three fiveeighty five. UCCC today Route fifty clothes.
Due to an accident between Lancaster Roadand Sugar Run Road, and there's
a tarp in the left center laneon seventy five south before Sharon Road.
I'm John Crawford with traffic thirty.That's us. Excuse me, good out

(01:13:24):
for the Mowegar. This is ESPNfifteen thirty. I gotta clear my throat
again, Tarn, let the musicplay. I'm gonna hit the call button.
It's rude to clear your throat intoa microphone. All right, I
did that. Now I got totake a drink. We just had fifteen
minutes for me to prepare to goon the air. Okay, now we

(01:13:45):
can start. My name's Moegar,Professional broadcaster. This is ESPN fifteen thirty.
Thank you for listening. I hopeyou're having an awesome Tuesday. Dan
Brugler is gonna join us. Thisguy is the best there is there is.
There's a lot of draft content.There's a lot of draft experts,
and I consume the work of abunch of them and a lot of folks

(01:14:09):
that we love to get on theair, love having Danea on the air.
But his draft guide first of all, to do what we do is
it's the most valuable resource we haveif you don't do what we do,
but you just want to be reallyplugged in with more than just surface level
analysis of these prospects. Danger guy, the beast of the publication. You

(01:14:33):
should download it now. It's availableat the Athletic. Dane's going to join
us in just about thirty minutes andcannot wait for that. Plus we got
to come up with a pole questionas well, and what you and I
are wondering about the Reds game tonightand the latest example of the portal and

(01:14:53):
nil being awesome? Perhaps the phonecaller to us quickly on the Bengals.
We had a little fun with thisearlier in the show. Paul Dayner junior
T Higgins says he anticipates playing forthe Bengals this year, which I anticipate
t Higgins playing for the Bengals too, and I have all along because that's
what's gonna happen, because barring somethingtotally unforeseen, they're not going to trade

(01:15:18):
him. He's not going to holdout well, he is going to hold
out of camp. He's not gonnamiss games. He's not going to show
up for the first He's not goingto fail to show up for the first
game of the season. He's notgoing to turn down the chance to make
twenty one million dollars, and theBengals will be better off for having T
Higgins this year than not. Now, seven of the nine players who are

(01:15:41):
franchised tagged have gotten new deals,either from the team that tagged them or
in a trade. T Higgins isone of the two that has not,
and some have used that to say, well, this is this fuels T
Higgins' aggravation or his discontent, Andlike, I get it. If I
was T Higgins, I would wanta long term contract. If my choices

(01:16:04):
are one year deal twenty one meal, or multi year deal for much worth
much more than twenty one meal,then like dude, yes, let's do
it. I get it. THiggins when it comes to his contract,
is, unfortunately for him, workingwithin some pretty unfortunate sets of circumstances.

(01:16:25):
None of those other seven players whohave either gotten long term extensions from the
teams that tag them or uh fromthe team that they were traded to.
None of those other players have aguy on that team who plays the same
position who is probably better. Youknow, we do this thing all the

(01:16:47):
time here where we relitigate drafts.When it's all said and done, with
Jamar Chase and the Jamar and JoeEra and Penne Seool and the Detroit Lions,
it's gonna be a lot of funto kind of look back on Cincinnati's
decision to take Jamar Chase and notPine Sool. I think the Bengals did

(01:17:12):
the right thing three years ago.I thought they did the right thing three
years ago. Three years ago,and I have absolutely no regrets about what
the Bengals chose to do. Butif I'm T Higgins and I like playing
here and I like playing with JoeBurrow, you know what I'm wondering,

(01:17:34):
Do I have my contract from theCincinnati Bengals if Jamar Chase isn't here in
Pine School is think about that rosterconstruction and who's on your team and who
else you have to pay influences aton of other decisions. It's not that
the Bengals don't value Tea. It'snot that they wouldn't want him to be

(01:17:55):
on the team moving forward. I'msure they're excited about having a motivated T.
Higgins on the squad in twenty twentyfour, But you know it's always
going to be an interesting what if, because Jamar Chase is great, and
because Pinasol's also a really good andthe Detroit Lions have been better off for
taking him, and the Bengals havebeen better off for taking Jamar Chase.

(01:18:16):
But one of the the ancillary rippleeffects, if you will, to what
they chose to do in the twentytwenty one draft is Bengals now have a
wide receiver who they control for fiveyears, who in the short term,
is cheaper, and who I wouldimagine most evaluators say is a better player.

(01:18:41):
Like legitimately, if you're t Higgins, you probably have the contract that
you're looking for, the contract thatyou're hoping you can get next year.
You probably have it from the CincinnatiBengals today. If instead of Jamar Chase
they took Pinasal, now you mightnot have played in a Super in twenty
twenty one. You might not haveplayed in consecutive AFC Championship games, or

(01:19:05):
maybe you have. I don't know, But none of those other guys who
have signed their second contracts have aplayer on the team they got that contract
from who plays the same position andarguably plays it better, So that comparison
well here's all the other guys andthe deals they've gotten. Comparison doesn't work.

(01:19:30):
On one hand, T Higgins hasbenefited tremendously from having Jamar Chase tremendously.
How could you not? By theway, so did Tyler Boyd.
So will anybody who plays with JamarChaks. Bengals are going to draft a
wide receiver next week. That dude'sgonna benefit from playing with Jamar Chase,
And in twenty twenty four he's gonnabenefit from playing with Jamar Chase and with

(01:19:50):
T. Higgins. Mike Kasiki isgonna benefit from playing with Jamar Chanks.
At the same time he's hurt bythe fact that Jamar Chase is here.
And so if I'm T Higgins,we do this in sports, we imagine
alternate realities, right, What isthe alternate reality of the Bengals doing what
a lot of folks wanted them todo and what I think you could still

(01:20:15):
make a case to this day forthem doing because Pinasuls turn out to be
such a good player. What ifthey take the tackle and not the wide
receiver? Who knows, Maybe Thiggins production isn't close to what it has
been. Maybe it's better. Ido not know. Maybe the team is
still looking for its first playoff victorysince nineteen ninety. No idea, no
clue, but chances are t Higginsis viewed as a lot less expendable by

(01:20:42):
the Bengals than he is right now. It's one of those what ifs.
It's not just what ifs, whathappens with the team, what happens with
so many of the individual players.My bet is, and you can never
disprove this, and I can neverprove it, but my guess would be
T Higgins would have his contract fromthe Bengals twelve minutes after five o'clock five

(01:21:03):
to win three seven four nine fifteenthirty and eight six six seven h two
three seven seven six. We'll getto the reds here in just a second.
A loss last night that kind offelt like it was sealed in the
bottom of the third inning, FrankieMontas was, there's no real other way
to put it. This is nota guy who has struggled with control,
and so you could handle it oneof two ways you can go, God,

(01:21:25):
this is not a guy who haswalked that many guys in a game
before you know what it happens it'sa one off, it's an outlier,
or you could wonder if it's reflectiveof something being wrong, because do you
do something you've never done before?If something's not wrong, I don't know.
I'm going to air on the sideof what they have said, which
is look just one of those nights. Hopefully that proves to be the case.

(01:21:49):
Hunter Green gets the ball tonight.Chad Brendel joined US just about an
hour ago on very short notice totalk about a couple of transfers coming to
U. See Arrington Page, whoso turned down UC to go to USC
spend a season at USC admittedly didn'tput up great number six to eleven kid
now is going to come back andplay at the University of Cincinnati. On

(01:22:10):
a daily basis, On a dailybasis, you will hear people, whether
it's fans, media, coaches,whoever, discussing the merits of the transfer
portal and NIL and whether or notthose things are roading college basketball. I
participated this weekend in a sports journalismsymposium. I have no remote idea why

(01:22:38):
I was there because I'm not ajournalist, but legitimately I think the first
question I was asked was the portalat nil, runing college basketball, And
my answer was no, No,We've had a lot of things threatened college
basketball. We've had point shaving scandals. This is a ruining college basketball now

(01:22:58):
what it's done on top of creatinga whole series of complaints that people have,
Like coaches who we go to recruiterowned players. Cool, That's what
people at every company have to do, right, Coaches complaining, well,
we go to recruit our own players. Uh yeah, the place where you
work. Guess what they often haveto do recruit their own employees. That's

(01:23:23):
how it works pal and most places, the employees aren't under contract either,
so you can't shy a contract everywhere, but not college basketball. Coaches who
complain about the portal are just complainingabout having to work, I mean legitimately,
And they complain about the portal andNil, they're complaining about having to
do their jobs. You know whatit's done for me though, it's created

(01:23:46):
interest during the offseason. I lovecollege basketball, but I'll be honest,
like tournament starts, tournament ends,and then usually you kind of put college
hoops on the shelf until the nextseason rolls around. Now, like we
have player movement and guys changing schools, and it's interesting. It can be
tough to follow, but it's interestingto follow. We have player movement involving

(01:24:11):
established commodities. I could wrap mybrain around what they could bring to a
team. Connor Hickman's coming from Bradley. Watched him up close last month when
you see was in the NIIT,and I could take what I saw and
projected to his role in the Bearcats. I don't know if he's athletic enough
really to play in the Big twelve, but he could shoot it from outside.
He's nifty, he's crafty. Idon't think Cincinnati abused him on the

(01:24:34):
defensive end either, so we'll see. Like I can wrap my brain around
that we're talking about how piece isfit that I have seen before. I
mean the fun part of the offseasonI think, specifically in the NBA and
NFL is trying to figure out howestablished players are going to fit in their
new places. I can do thatin college basketball, could do it in

(01:24:57):
college football too. Like there's interestin the next season that I think has
been generated by the fact that wedo have a lot of player movement.
And yeah, people complain about it, and that's fine. It's different it's
changed. You're always going to havefolks who you know, resent people getting
a chance to cash in on theirI mean, it just happens. And

(01:25:19):
coaches are gonna complain because they haveto work more. Okay whatever, They're
paid very handsomely to do their jobs. Let them do their jobs. And
as fans, we get an offseason like we get off season activity.
How is that a bad thing?Hey, spoiler alert, it's not.

(01:25:40):
Five point three seven fifteen thirty.By the way, five o'clock Happy Hour,
a service of michelob Ultra. Oneof those sounds amazing right now,
brood for Active Living, mick Ultra, grab one. Uh. Dan Brugler
from the Athletic coming up in justabout fifteen minutes. Uh, we'll get
to the Reds mention their loss lastnight gets the ball this evening, and

(01:26:01):
well, I don't know what tosay. That's a problem. Next I'm
just gonna say this, and youcan nod along or you can shake your
head. There's a lot of weirdpeople on the internet. Tomorrow on the
show, Joe Goodberry's gonna join us. We're opposite Red Zems. The last

(01:26:24):
game of that series. The secondgame is tonight, so like we were
talking about Hunter Green before. Youknow, the beauty of sports is you
don't know. It's not scripted.What you think you do, what you
think you do know ends up beingwhat you don't know. What you expect
turns out to not end up happening, and expect the unexpected. And this

(01:26:45):
is word salad, and I getit, but it's what I love about
sports. There are upsets, andthere are outcomes that nobody ever could have
imagined, and unexpected heroes and unexpectedgoats, and it's it's why for my
money, at least, it's amongthe reasons why sports is the best form
of entertainment. But if you rootfor a team, especially a baseball team,

(01:27:14):
it's and this is you know,this is sort of illustrative of where
the Reds are right now with allthe young guys. It's it's nice when
you can wrap your brain around whata player is going to be going into
a season, right, you know, I don't want Joey Vado is an
incredibly hard standard to hold everybody to, But at his best, at his

(01:27:38):
healthiest, I kind of knew whatthat year was going to look like.
It didn't mean he wasn't gonna havebad games. Didn't mean he was going
to be immune to slumps. Butbut I knew what that year was was
going to look like. And youcould say that about a lot of guys
the Reds had during Joey's prime.You know, right now don't know what

(01:28:00):
any of these guys, what theirindividual seasons are are going to look like.
Go back to February when people were, you know, sort of sifting
through all the different projections that wereout there, and my stance was like,
they've never mattered less. It's ateam full of guys without track records.
How can you statistically project what they'regoing to be individually? And if

(01:28:21):
you can't do that with the individuals, then how can you do that with
the team as a whole. HunterGreen is one of those guys that you
want to be able to say,here's what I think his season is going
to look like. On a moremicro level, I'd like to sit here,

(01:28:41):
first pitch is in four hours andthirteen minutes and tell you here's what
I expect tonight. You know,again, a really impossible standard to hold
anybody up to. But you know, when the Reds, even in twenty
twenty, had pitching staff Luis Castillowas still here, Tyler Mallley was still

(01:29:04):
here, and they still had SonnyGray and Trevor Bauer won the cy Young
even in the weirdness of COVID,even if that team I think slightly underachieved,
maybe you kind of know on anightly basis, here's what the starting
pitching is going to give the team. I could say, here's Sonny Gray,

(01:29:24):
what do you think tonight, andyou would you would have a general
sense of what to expect Trevor Bauerlike you could do that twenty twelve when
the Reds had maybe my favorite pitchingstaff of all time, Cueto, Leto's,
Bailey, Arroyo and Leak. Nobodyever missed a start that entire season.
You know, each one of thoseguys had clunkers. Each one of

(01:29:45):
those guys had outings where they justgot beat up a little bit, or
didn't have their best off or hadto exit early. It happens, But
for the most part, every singleday, I could tell you, Johnny
Cquato, here is kind of abase line expectation, Bronson Royo, here's
a baseline expectation. I know whatthe start should look like. And occasionally

(01:30:08):
they would exceed expectations, and occasionallythey would fall way short of expectations,
but for the most part, youkind of had a general sense. Who's
pitching tonight, Mike Leak, Okay, I know what it should look like.
I know what the roadmap to winningtonight's game should involve. Can't do
that right now, you might argueyou can't do it at Frankie Montaz,
I think it's a little bit tooearly to say that after four starts he's

(01:30:30):
had two good too bad Hunter Green. I would be unsurprised tonight if Hunter
Green threw seven innings of two hits, shutout baseball, and struck out eleven
guys, I would be unsurprised.You would too. I would be unsurprised
if Hunter Green has gone before theend of the fourth inning and he's given
up seven runs and two Gophers.Maybe somewhere in the middle over these next

(01:30:57):
fifty starts tonight is fifty, sayfifty one starts. That's what has to
change. Everybody's allowed bad games.Every starting pitcher is allowed outings where they
just don't have it. Every startingpitcher is allowed you know, games were
just the other team just makes goodcontact because the pitcher leaves a ball up

(01:31:18):
in the zone or makes a mistakeor just doesn't execute his pitch, or
the defense fails and whatever it is, and then you kind of shrug it
off and go, you know what, boy, that wasn't expecting that,
But he'll get him next time.With Hunter Green, I want to sit
here in the afternoon if he's pitchinga night and have a general sense of
here's what I expect. I haveno idea what to expect. I know

(01:31:41):
we can apply this conversation to otherpitchers on the staff. I think Hunter
Green has a sharper microscope. He'she's under more scrutiny, and he would
be the first to tell you that'skind of what comes with the territory of
being who he is and being sucha big part of this franchise. I
think he's ready for that. Butagain, like tonight, you stay,

(01:32:04):
have to watch the game. Yourhead hits the pillow. Hunter has pitched
six and two thirds. He's givenup one run, three hits, walk
to guy struck out nine. Yeah. Hunter Green goes four and a third,
gives up six runs, walks four, surrenders a big three run homer.

(01:32:27):
Yeah. Both make sense. Bothare plausible, Both fall within the
realm of expectation. Neither would besurprising. Part of that speaks to how
talented he is. Part of thatspeaks to the potential that we know he
has. Part of that speaks towhat we've seen from him in the past.

(01:32:51):
He has had some absolutely lights outstarts. Absolutely. I loved how
he pitched against the Mets two weeksago Friday. I like how he pitched
in the first two innings of hisfirst start of the season before the wheels
fell off. I hated how hethrew against Milwaukee when he looked like he
didn't want to be out there.Like that's before we talk about staff Ace

(01:33:15):
or All Star or any of thatstuff. Like, Buddy, just give
me a baseline expectation, here's whatI should expect. Just it could be
the simple quality start, six innings, three runs. Let's start with that.
We're still in the phase of hiscareer, maybe expectedly so, but

(01:33:39):
we're still in the phase of hiscareer start to start, No outcome is
surprising. He pitched poorly against theBrewers last week. I shrugged my shoulders
and said, yep, maybe thatcomes with youth. And I watched how
he pitched in his previous start againstNew York and thought, yeah, like
that's what he's capable of. Whenwhen this changes, one of two things

(01:34:04):
will have happened. Either we'll beready to give up on him. I
don't think we're close to there yetby any stretch of the imagination. Or
he will have arrived as a keepusing this word reliable big league starter.
I want to know what to expect. I want to know what to expect
the same from Ludolo and Ashcraft andeverybody else. But again, like Hunter

(01:34:25):
Green, there's a sharper scrutiny thathe faces. It just it comes with
the territory. Every start gets parsedjust more finely and and with with more
with more attention to detail than anyanybody else. But every there hasn't really

(01:34:46):
been an outing that he's had.You know, he the game against the
Pirates where they they know hit himfor eight innings. Yeah, I gotta
be honest, was kind of surprising. But you're like, yeah, dude,
against a bad lineup, this guyjust he's got an electric arm.
This is what he's capable of.And he's had starts like that. It's
what he's capable of. But unfortunately, what he's capable of is four and

(01:35:08):
a third, two homers, fourwalks, uh seven runs. And it's
not to say again it's it's notto say he can't have bad starts,
but they have to stand out more. Remember like Bronson Arroyo was, it

(01:35:30):
never had top end stuff. Butyou remember, like like twice a year
in his best in his best seasons, like twice a year he'd have outings
where he was done by the secondinning, and like you'd you'd watch it,
or you go to the game andWHOA, Well, that's that's good
to inflate as e R. Andthen the next start, Okay, Bronson's
gonna throw seven tonight, give upthree runs, they're gonna win the game.

(01:35:53):
The really bad starts would stand outbecause they were they were outliers.
The norm for a hundred is allover the place. That's got to change
the norm for us during the draftis we chat with Dame Brugler from The
Athletic, the author of the singlegreatest draft guide ever. He joins us
next on ESPN fifteen thirty. Cincinnati'sesp a better NFL Draft guide than the

(01:36:17):
one published by Dan Brugler from theAthletic get it right now at the Athletic
dot Com. Always great to haveyou, Dan, How are you?
I'm good. I appreciate all thosekind words. It's the feedback's been awesome.
You know, you try to youtry to make it better, bigger
and better every year, and youknow, hopefully, you know we've been
able to do that. Above all, I just I want the Draft Guide

(01:36:40):
to be a resource. You know, even if you disagree with the player
or disagree with the ranking, youknow, that's that's fine, that's great.
But above all, I promise there'ssomething in there, whether it's background
information, some type of metric,the pro day testing for almost two thousand
players, there's something in here foreverybody. Whether yeah, you're a die
heart fan or just a casual NFLdraft fan, this will be something you

(01:37:02):
are you're happy you have by yourside, especially on draft weekend. Yeah,
well, put, I love therankings, but more than anything,
I'm into the strengths and weaknesses andthe evaluation. And so I printed last
week. I go right to pageone hundred and eleven because the Bengals with
the eighteenth overall pick might take anoffensive tackle. I want them to take
a tackle the air apparent to JodahWilliams long term, and I feel like,

(01:37:26):
if you're gonna build an offensive line, that's got to happen through the
draft, especially when you have aquarterback making Joe Burrow money. And so
I go to the offensive tackles andit's like it's like going to a restaurant
that has like a thousand things onthe menu that I want to order,
but I could only have one.So let's start there. If I'm looking
at the eighteenth overall pick through thelens of wanting an offensive tackle, who's
the guy that I'm hoping falls tothem at eighteen? You know, it's

(01:37:49):
tough because we're gonna see a lotof tackles come off the board, There's
no doubt about it in the firstround. But who's going to be left?
You know how many tackles go thosefirst seventeen picks. I think if
I'm if I'm the Bengals, andobviously I'm looking at at right tackle to
least Fuaga from Moregon State JC Lathamfrom Alabama. Those two guys are really

(01:38:14):
appealing for me, as you knowthey can help from day one where we
move inside the guard you know theyget on the field in some type of
capacity. I'm feeling really good aboutthose two guys. Now, if those
two are off the board, likeI think there's a good chance they could
be, then we're looking at AmarusMims. You're looking at Tyler Goyton.
Two guys that played right tackle incollege, but they are more They need

(01:38:38):
more development before you're gonna feel supercomfortable about them being on the field.
And there the Bengals are set upin a situation where they don't need someone
to be out there from day one, but you know what injuries happen,
and do you at least want yourfirst round pick to get on the field
and get some experience and not embarrassyou, not embarrass himself. So I
think it comes down to what theirevaluation is of Memes and Giton, and

(01:39:01):
it's this is a draft where offensivetackle falls off a little bit. Now,
there's always guys, a couple ofguys you can find on Day two,
whether it's a Blake Fisher from NotreDame or Roger rose Garden from Washington.
I mean, there are some players, but the demand will far outweigh
the supply in terms of offensive tacklesoutside after that eighteenth pick. So I

(01:39:25):
have my seven round mock draft comingout this week on the Athletic and that's
the kind of the situation I fellinto when I'm projecting the Bengals. If
they don't take that tackle with theeighteenth pick, it becomes tougher to find
that guy for them in rounds two, rounds three, rounds four, and
before you know it, we're inround six and we're drafting a purely development
guy. And that's a situation theycould find themselves in if they don't take

(01:39:47):
that tackle at pick number eighteen.Yeah, it's exactly the sort of the
way that I've looked at it.And yet folks will throw out other players
at other positions, and so let'splay. You know what, Byron Murphy,
your top rated three technique defensive tackle, if he's there at eighteen versus
one of the offensive tackles you talkedabout, what's the move. I'm a

(01:40:11):
firm believer in sticking to your boardand trusting it. You know, you
put all this work in. Let'syou know, let's stick to what we
believe. And that's why teams havethe vertical board. They have the horizontal
board, and you have to differentiatethese players even I mean you can't help
whether it's consciously or subconsciously need factoringin to your decision making. But above

(01:40:35):
all, in the first round,you should want to come away with the
best available player and defensive tackle.Even though you know they did make some
moves on that defensive line, it'sstill a need area, and especially on
the interior where you need someone that'sgoing to helps off the run and you
want to get more interior disruption andByron Murphy does that. As much as
I do want to see a righttackle, they're at eighteen, I think

(01:40:57):
Byron Murphy might be the best playerthat realistically going to be available for them
with that eighteenth pick. You knowthe size, he doesn't necessarily look like
you want your first round defensive tackleto look. He's six ones or six
foot and a half, around threehundred pounds, doesn't have super long arms,
but he uses that natural leverage tohis advantage. He is a very

(01:41:18):
as talented as he is with hisjust physical tools, he's also very skilled
with his hands. That natural twitchthat he has through his hips and his
lower body gives him this power thatallows him to win gaps and he shuts
down the run. He's able todisrupt the backfield action. So I like
that Byron Murphy. If that's thedirection they go in the first round,

(01:41:41):
I think it makes a ton ofsense for what they need on that defensive
line and just maybe being the bestplayer available at that point as well from
an evaluator standpoint, because you writeup Byron Murphy and you talk about,
Look, the overall statistical profile isn'tgreat, it got better every single year.
If I'm looking at defensive tackle,how much should I pay attention to

(01:42:01):
statistics versus tape study, measurables andthe things that folks like yourself really dive
deep into. I think for everyposition, it's the scouting motto is traits
over production. Production does not translateto the NFL. I mean, receiving
yards does not translate to the NFL. Traits do. And so now a

(01:42:24):
lot of those times, you knowthere's a correlation, and you know you
could look at the guys that wereproductive in college and sometimes that does carry
over, but not always. Atthe end of the day, give me
the guys that hate to be blocked. If you're looking at defensive line and
Okay, they don't like to beblocked. What do they do to get
off those blocks? Do they havethe power that you're looking for? Do
they have the understanding of leverage andunderstanding of how to use their hands?

(01:42:48):
And a guy like Byron Murphy,you know he and he's a fun story
because he was a running back growingup. Moved a linebacker in college or
in high school, and then theyhad they introduced a pressure package where the
middle linebacker would come down and kindof rush through the a gap and he
was so good at it that they'relike, all right, sorry, kid,

(01:43:08):
you're a defensive tackle now, andhe ended up breaking He went to
De Soto High School down in Texas, and Byron Murphy ended up breaking Von
Miller's school record for sacks because hewas so good being disruptive on the interior
of that defensive line. And thenhe goes to Texas and he played behind
the starters for two years, gota chance this year to be the guy
and he was. Actually, hewas an All American. He had an

(01:43:28):
outstanding season, led all defensive tacklesin terms of pressure rate, in terms
of getting after the quarterback and disruptingwhat the quarterback was doing so even though
you know the rawstats don't jump outat you. Only five sacks, eight
and a half tackles for loss.He on a snap to snap basis.
He was more disruptive as a passrusher than any other interior defensive lineman in

(01:43:50):
this class. Dave Brugler is withus is a twenty twenty four NFL draft
guide is available at the Athletic dotCom. It's called the Beast and it
is a terrific resource. You joinedme last year, and I felt like
I wasted your time because for likesix minutes we talked about tight ends,
this great tight end class, andthen the Bengals don't take one. So

(01:44:10):
I hear the name brock Bauers.Folks have talked about. God, if
he's there at eighteen, can youreally pass on him? Let's talk about
him through a twenty twenty three lens. Obviously you've got him as the top
tight end in this year's class.Where do you rank him if he's coming
out in twenty twenty three so inlast year's draft, yeah, gosh,
yeah he would be. He wouldbe pretty high. Well. The first

(01:44:34):
tight end drafted last year's Dalton Kincaidand then the the mid twenties, So
I mean brought Howers would have beenone of the first players would have been
a top ten pick in last year'sdraft. I think people get so obsessed
with just the T and the Enext to his name, you know,
just that tight end. He's somuch more than that. And I hope,
I just hope he goes to aspot where the offensive coordinated, the

(01:44:57):
play caller, they understand that,understand what he offers and what he brings,
and how he's not just a guyyou're going to plug in in line,
leave him there, and you knowthat you just run your offense.
You know, he's a guy thatyou want in the slot, you want
him out wide, you want himin the backfield, you want him moving
him all over the formation. Sodefense they have to account for that.
That is such a weapon that hecan run like a receiver, but he

(01:45:19):
can block like a tight end,and he has a versatility to line up
across the field. Why would younot want that? I understand that.
It's you know, the financial partof this is part of this conversation.
You know, if he's drafted topfifteen, he'll be one of the higher
paid tight ends as soon as hegoes to the NFL. I get that,
but it's we're talking about offensive impacthere that the modern day NFL,

(01:45:44):
you're looking for somebody that affects thescoreboard. Rock Bauers absolutely does that,
and that's why I just I don'tbelieve he's going to make the eighteen.
I would be totally shocked if hemakes it that far. I think he's
going to at the end of theday, he'll go somewhere between nine and
fifteen. I think somewhere in thatrange, whether that's the Jets at ten,
the Broncos at twelve, the Coltsat fifteen, or maybe we have

(01:46:04):
some trade action that that kind ofmesses that all up. But I think
somewhere in that range, somewhere inthe top half of round one, brock
Bauers is going to come off theboard. He's too good not to.
And somebody's going to see that visionand really believe they can make it work.
And as long as they have theplay caller to do it, I
think it'd be a home run.Pick your colleague at the Athletic Paul Dayner

(01:46:26):
Junior has has written about and he'stalked about with us the Bengals are taking
a wide receiver. It's coming,it's happening early, and you could understand
why, given what's happening and likelywhat's going to happen at that position for
them. So if I'm targeting aDay two wide out in Cincinnati, who
do I want? Well, youknow, obviously T Higgins is still on
the on the roster and who willbe this season beyond that is a big

(01:46:51):
question mark. So I think inyou know, Tyler Boyd's no longer with
the team, and so are theygoing to be looking for a slot receiver,
looking for an outside guy? Maybethey want inside outside versatility. But
this is a wide receiver class thatis pretty deep, and so it'll stretch
second round, third round, fourthround. In my seven around mockt comes

(01:47:11):
out this week, I don't havehim going to receiver until the fifth round.
It's just kind of how it workedout with you know, they did
obviously they want to dress off ofthe line. We could see them addressing
tight end that the right guy isthere and say the third round, you
know, is there a nose tackleworth taking? That's another position that I
think they would like to address.But yeah, with this receiver class,
I do think that you can feelcomfortable waiting if you want, you could

(01:47:35):
go in that direction in a roundtwo. You know, if a Ricky
Piersoll from Florida, if he fallsto you in round two, I think
that'd be a great situation for bothsides because Ricky Pearsall can play inside,
he can play outside. He canhelp you from you know, the get
go in year one as a rookie, but also gives you a long term
plan at the position. Jalen Polkfrom Washington, he's a guy that doesn't

(01:47:57):
really have a there's nothing about hisgame at then a plus. But it's
a lot of bees across the board. And so again, if you're drafting
a receiver on day two, you'resacrificing something, and with Jalen Polk,
you're lacking a true distinguishing trait.But he also doesn't have an anchor that's
going to drop him down as somethingthat you really concern yourself about his game.

(01:48:18):
So I think Jalen Polk could bein that conversation. Malik Washington from
Virginia. You know that every everyyear someone gets the Steve Smith comparison,
and it's ridiculous. Every year,No one, No one should get that
comparison, but if we're going todo it, Milik Washington would be the
closest thing to that type of receiverwhere yeah, he is small, just

(01:48:40):
look at five eight and a halfhundred ninety pounds, but he plays so
much bigger when the ball's in theair. He has that mind ball mentality,
and you know, I think he'sgonna come off the board somewhere and
that that third round, late thirdround, fourth round, Bengals have that
second third round pick and it's whatninety seven, that'd be a perfect spot
for Malik Washington. So yeah,this is a receiver class where you could,

(01:49:01):
I mean realistically talk yourself into alot of guys at at several different
stages of the draft. One more, I want you to sift through your
large mental role indecks among the thousandsof players that you have scoutered over the
years. And I want to goback two years ago. The Bengals took
Dax Hill very late in round one. His rookie year kind of a wash

(01:49:23):
because they still had Jesse Bates andVon Bell. He plays exclusively safety last
year and he's he plays unevenly andso the Bengals go back and they bring
back Von Bellen. Free agency,they signed Geno Stone and so DA's right
now, by his own admission,is kind of a guy without a specific
role that'll be ironed out hopefully hereduring the offseason. But when you evaluated

(01:49:45):
him two years ago, where didyou think he would best fit as a
pro. Yeah, and that wasthe big question, right what was the
fit because is he a safety?Is he a nickel? Where are we
going to best play him? AndI think you know, he was a
safety. I think that's where youprobably best saw him. But he's a
guy that you wanted to uh.You know, he gives you a versatility

(01:50:06):
to you know, especially when yougo in the dime and you go into
these uh you know, dB heavypackages where he could play Mono umano with
the receiver. He has that typeof ability, has that type of athletic
profile. But you can also playin space. He has range. So
I think the versatility was more ofa strength or more of the reason why

(01:50:27):
you wanted to uh. You know, he thought he could be a first
round pick, and you know,he tested like you want first round picks
to test. He has really promisingtape with what he was able to do
in the secondary at Michigan, andso you know, I'm very, very
excited to see what he can do. Now. What is this year three
for him? You know, canI take can he take that next step?

(01:50:48):
It's all about, Okay, hehad the speed, has the athleticism,
has the talent. Can he bea more consistent playmaker and both against
the run and then in coverage.So instead of just being a complimentary piece,
he's going out and he's making plays. So I'm excited excited to see
what kind of next step he cantake this year. Yeah, you and

(01:51:08):
me both, Dan Brugler. Thetwenty twenty four NFL Draft guide available at
the Athletic dot com and the fullseven round mob draft is coming up soon
the Athletic dot Com. Check thatout. Follow Dane on Twitter slash x
at DP Brugler. I always doappreciate it. Enjoy the draft man,
Thanks so much, pleasures online.Thanks Man. Followed Dane on Twitter at

(01:51:30):
DP Brugler. Get his twenty twentyfour draft guide. Akathebeast right now Attheathletic
dot com. Along those lines,Joe Goodbarry joins us tomorrow. We are
looking forward to that that'll be inthe I believe the five o'clock hour.
What else, what else, we'llhave a reaction in real time to the

(01:51:50):
Reds game tomorrow, we'll give awaymore Aerosmith tickets, and we'll have a
lot of fun. Thank you somuch for joining us, Thanks to Tarran
Bland for producing. Have a greatnight. We'll talk to you tomorrow at
three oh five on ESPN fifteen thirtyCincinnati Sports Station. There are more identity

(01:52:17):
threats than you realize, even ifyou mind

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