May 5, 2026 • 38 mins
Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic and The Growler Podcast joined us to discuss his piece on how the Dexter Lawrence trade came to be, the Bengals' decision to not exercise the fifth year option on Myles Murphy, Dax Hill, and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fifty.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Yeah, maybe the Reds will find a closer since you've
done that. What's up? Good afternoon on Moeger. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty, really the first and I get it.
It's today, just May fifth, first genuine gut punch lots
of the season. Last night, I have another gut punch
for you. Did I read in the Athletic it relates
(00:22):
to Sal Stewart. I'll give you that coming up in
the four o'clock hour. Speaking of the Athletic, it's Tuesday,
which means our guy, Paul Danner Junior is here covering
the Bengals for the Athletic dot Com and of course
the Growler podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
How is it going? I was just worried what the
surprise is going to be? You said something you read
in the Athletic and I do. Here we go again.
This is There's a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Going on at the Athletic because you have a c
trend covering the Reds. He's made Cubs fans mad because
he's dumping on Wrigleyfield on Twitter. You've got Ken Rosenthal
writing about Sal Stewart. That's got me in a crappy mood.
But you're here and that puts me in a good mood.
So so everything's sort of lot's going on with the
athletic but everything sort of all us.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Hopefully I haven't written anything that's put you in no
crappy mood in recent weeks, but not at all. You know,
things are largely in a good place with the Bengals
right now. But I can change that if you'd like.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I've not read the Genostone appreciation piece. There's no no,
there's we're good, We're good.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
It's we were just down there. Uh, and it's very
calm and very boring, be honest, Sen, and you're kind
of in that well one. Nothing's really happening. They're just conditioning.
I guess so. But uh, besides that, though it's lots
of good spirits, lots of good things happened. Joe Burrow
there he was not No. I think we have photo
(01:41):
evidence of him being in other places this week.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Didn't make it back for today's work out with his teammates.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Did not appear to for good, very good.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Speaking of what you've written, I do want to I
do want to talk about the deep dive into how
the Dexter Lawrence trade came to be, which I thought
was was enlightening and very good, and it gave me
some things I want to ask you about good. So
if you read that at the Athletic dot com, yes,
there's a lot to it. I've printed a few passages
good that stood out to me from the piece.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
No, these are good. These are good. Now we're all
on board. This is good stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
This is the Bengals going forward, this is training for
Dexter Lawrence. This is good. But there were a few
things that stood out to me that I thought we
could ask you to elaborate on, sure, without giving away
all the content you wrote. This opportunity seemed different potentially
from the beginning. At the very least, the immediate reaction
didn't require as much selling to the family ownership of
(02:33):
Mike Brown and Troy and Katie Blackburn, Paul Brown, as
well as Caroline and Elizabeth Blackburn, because I think a
lot of has had in our mind's eye this vision
of like Duke Tobin Heaven to go in and sell
those folks on what he wanted to do, and it's
encouraging that that wasn't the case.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I yeah, I think that was kind of the idea
of it.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
You know, you've been doing a talk show at three
o'clock in the afternoon for that's my ringer. Yeah, for
nineteen years. And my mom is calling. Now it's on
me to have the phone ring her off. But been
on the I've been in this time slot for seventeen years.
Mom knows this. There's mom breaking off a phone call. Well,
we'll get to it during the break.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Please continue. It's Mother's Day this weekend. You should be nicer.
I will be very nice on Sunday when I call
her at a time that's a little at a time
that's a little bit more for all of us. Yeah,
where were we talking about?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Total didn't have to go in and sell Mike and
Katie and Carolyn and everybody on the whole one.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
That was kind of my question and thought about it too.
It was like, is that what this was? Well, you
go in and say, hey, maybe we should try to
do this, or maybe there was resistance along the way,
and there didn't seem to be. But I think that
also came from a place of you know, early on
in the off season and acknowledgment of number ten can
(03:56):
be a weapon, and so I think when they're already
in that place, even after they had spent all the
money in free agency, there was a willingness to be
open to those ideas over the course of this offseason.
But yeah, I think it's good. You know, the answer
could have been, yeah, they were not so sure at first,
(04:16):
but eventually once X, Y and Z happened, they were
more open to it. But that no, that's at least
according to you know, everything that I was told, that's
how it went.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
The other one that stood out to me was you
wrote what was clear coming out of the Lawrence move
was that they now must re evaluate the previous assumptions
made about how they go forward. Tobin sounded more open
to the possibility of restructuring burrows contract than he was
when originally asked about it in February. And then you
(04:45):
also wrote about the ramifications and the structure and aggressiveness
of negotiations with players like DJ Turner, Dack Hill, and
Chase Brown, as well as the fifth year option decision
for Miles Murphy which they've made, which is a little
bit of a separate topic, but I think there's sort
of the big takeaway for me. It's like I was
thinking about this when we saw the viral clip this
week of DeAndre Hopkins saying he wants to play with
(05:06):
Joe Burrow and maybe that idea has no merit, but
now like it feels like there's nothing off the table
with this franchise.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah. Normally you would say, well, that's not gonna happen,
but that's not what they do.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
That's what they do.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Now it could happen. Yeah, But I do think it
was interesting, you know because Steve Ardisovik when when he
was talking about he was like, I have never been
in a place like this with the cap here before,
and he's been here for a decade and a half. Okay,
so like this is new territory, and so a lot
(05:39):
of the presumptions about where a move like this, or
the approach from ownership in a situation like this would be,
I think are just they're they're gone after this, because
you're seeing them willingly put themselves in places they've never
willingly gone before, whether it be with financials or how
they've sort of dealt with everything this off season, and
(06:00):
so yeah, I think it's certainly been the perception changer,
and that's internally and externally.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Do you think a borrow restructure happens? Do you think
it happens soon. Do you think it has to happen.
I don't think it has to happen. I mean they're
in a good enough place. I just think, you know,
there are opportunities to do more things. That's not necessarily
even talking about external I just think they have to.
When they talk about making it fit, that was the
big thing. Everybody used that phrase, how do we make
(06:28):
it fit? Like they make this work?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
It was reimagining that because I think they had a
plan in mind before Dexter Lawrence of what all this
would look like. And I'm speaking of extensions, I'm speaking
of what was the fifth year option for Miles Murphy.
All of these things kind of in their own little
work left to do bucket. So now it's how does
that get done? Does a Burrow restructure need to get
(06:53):
done in order them to make the next few years
work right for whoever they want to extend or whatever
that is. They don't have to do it, but it
would seem that if they need to reconfigure the way
some things look, that's where you start, is how to
reconfigure some wasting some things look.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So Duke is obviously much more meanable to doing it.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Do you think. I mean that was just based on
his answer. Yeah, I mean that's his answer in February
was basically like, we have a plan to do that
without having to restructure Burrow. Well, we'll open our minds
to that if we have to. And this time it
was we're talking about it, you know what I mean essentially,
And so that was it sounded like a guy who
(07:38):
sounds much more open to the concept of doing that
and is part of what they've got to figure out.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Can you comment on something else that I read in
the Athletic that wasn't in a piece that you wrote. Sure,
this is Mike Sando canvassing NFL executives on what teams
did in the draft. I read that and he he
wrote about how one executive suggested the Bengals could have
tried to involve a third team if there was one
that wanted to move up to number ten and perhaps
(08:05):
bring a mid round pick back to Cincinnati. I think
there are other folks who have sort of expressed this
belief that maybe they could have squeezed the Giants for
a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
You believe that. I do believe. I believe that it
felt like they should have gotten more that there should
have been some form of return. I agree there Yeah,
not massive, but no, no, that's you. You would think
a third or fourth or some some sort of swap
whatever that is would have felt right there. I would
agree with that. Involving A thirteen, there were there were
(08:35):
just a lot of problems with doing anything ahead of time,
Like teams with the draft were not gonna want to
move around with their position before that that night, They
couldn't really do that. So just by the nature of
needing to do the negotiation and physical and all other stuff.
So I just think they kind of resigned themselves to
the fact that it wasn't going to involve teams moving
(08:57):
up or additional and additional team being involved.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
It feels to me like had they tried to get
another team involved, that could have compromised the deal they
had done with the Giants yet potentially.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
And because I mean they kept a real tight circle
on that m I mean real tight. There was there
was not There was a lot of people that you
would think would know that were surprised. There was just generally,
I mean, they didn't want it to be something that
a lot of people knew about or that was really
out there because you don't want it to be another thing.
It kind of got out they were involved with Max Crosby,
(09:31):
and they didn't want to look like another swing and
miss in case it doesn't happen at the end, which
you know is always a possibility with those things, and
where it was going, So yeah, I think it was there.
It was purposely kept to a really tight, small, comfortable circle,
so involving more might have potentially jeopardized some of that,
or at least made it more complicated. And they were
really feeling the time and ticking a little faster there
(09:53):
by the time they got to the weekend before the draft.
They didn't want to push close to the wire. They
they felt like they were ready to make the move,
and they felt like the timing to do it was
right then so that they could get themselves fully prepared
for what was going to be a new setup for
them in the draft and get everything done.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Paul Danner Junior is here covering the Bengals for The
Athletic as well as the Growler podcast. Uh you could
read the inside story is How to the Dexter Lawrence
as to how the Dexter Lawrence trade went down. If
you read Paul's work at the Athletic dot com. If
you haven't ready yet, go check that out. And uh,
the latest Growler podcast is uh who they Like from
(10:30):
from Friday? From Friday is up there. We were into
a bunch of different times. Co host just dumps all
over local TV news. I mean temporarily he did. I
think he's a supporter of local TV news. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
The last time you were on you did you showed
up in a in a suit and tie. I were
trying to class up our price, and I think I did.
I think you did too, I really do. I think
you were on a something that I think we should
become the classy podcast, and we just were suiting tie
in our in our rooms.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It just remoked a little too cable Newsy for me. Yeah,
because as I was watching it, as I was doing
and I thought, like I think I even said, like,
I feel like I should be talking about the straight
up horror moves, right yeah, So, and I trust me,
I don't want to have to talk about that, so
I don't. I have sort of revisited whether the next
time I appear on the podcast, if I'll be wearing
(11:20):
though also I only have one suit jacket.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Yeah really so yes, lets me come back with that.
But maybe you're always wearing something surprising, kind of like
Joe Burrow at the Met Gala, Like maybe you maybe
you show up in something fancy like that, or maybe
you go with the like the T shirt combo that
he was wearing at the after party. And if you
saw those photos circulating.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, I'm mute in met gala on Twitter this morning.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Oh good for you. I'm good for you. I don't care.
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
It's a sixteen minutes after three o'clock. Paul Danner Junior's
here till four. We have Amelio Pagan blowing a game
last night. We have to talk about a little bit
later on on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty, Traffic.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
WCKY Cincinnati and iHeartRadio Station Ginner and Ted Human ESPN
fifteen thirty I Hard twenty three minutes after three o'clock.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty mo Edgar, thanks so much
for listening today. Hopefully you're having an awesome Tuesday afternoon.
Paul Danner Junior is with us until four o'clock on
the Bengals follow him at Paul Daanner Junior. Your level
of surprise that the Bengals didn't pick up Miles Murphy's
fifth year option, Well, it would have.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Been certainly a little more surprising one before the Dexter
Lawrence deal and definitely two before we heard Duke Tobin
talk about it last week. I mean he kind of
put the writing on the wall in that one that
the Lawrence deal changed the way their finance finances looked
for that it very much felt like they planned on
(12:55):
picking it up until that, and now it put it
into a different like we were talking about earlier allocation
and they're going to try to get a long term
deal done. I find this fascinating because there's both sides
have a real opportunity here to figure out what they
want this to be. Is Miles Murphy gonna bet on
(13:17):
himself because he if he ends up having a season
like I think they think he's going to and like
he thinks he should, even if he just has a
season that is a full season of what he was
the second half of last year, Yeah, which would extrapolate
out to like sixty plus pressures and double digit sacks.
(13:39):
You know what, his number is it's like a Dafeoway
boy off. We just saw these guys get paid twenty
plus million per year.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
It's a lot more than the fourteen and a half
he would have gone.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
You would have gotten here. And then there's the other
side for the Bengals of is there an incentive to
get in early on this if this guy is a
part of your future. Now they have invested in a
lot of other edges, but this guy has shown the
most promise out of any of the buddy that they
have picked now in terms of proven promise. Do you
(14:10):
go in early a little bit on this and can
you get the discount we've talked how many times have
we talked about yesterday's price and today's price on here
in recent years? This is a good opportunity for that
to try to maybe they can where Okay, Miles gets
a little bit more money before he ever actually does
any of it, and the Bengals maybe end up with
a bargain after this year. Are they willing to do that?
(14:31):
Is he willing to do that? I think it's a
kind of a fascinating negotiation to see what each side
wants to get out of it. Otherwise, the Bengals jeopardize
losing him next year, And maybe that's just a part
of that they're gonna have to deal with. But I
certainly have never gotten the impression that they view him
that way, that he is one that they would want
to see go. But now throw him in the bucket
(14:52):
with the rest of them. DJ Turner and Dax Hill
and Chase Brown and all these guys. Now, not all
these guys are getting paid. I can tell you that much.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
What he should do is this sign an extension, Go
have a great year, and then complain about the extension
he just signed, and give me a two year long
soap opera.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah, this is perfect, can we, Miles, Miles, I feel
like it's possible. Miles, there's can we? There's very much
press Just follow follow the tail, pick your pick the
phone up, Trey, can your agent advise me?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Here, We're gonna sign this deal. But it's cool if
I have a good year and then complain about the deal,
like nine months after I sign it.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
When do I request a trade and then immediately rescind it? Right? Like?
When do I do that part? Yes? You know, just
whenever I put so I'm looking for Yeah, this is
this is perfect.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
By the way, is Trey Hendrickson Is he already threatening
to hold out in Baltimore or any rumblings about that
that he's already unhappy with his new deal?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
What happened at the end of that video that was
going around at him in the Ravens Jersey. At the
end of that He's like, and I need a new deal?
Was that ended?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I do with the Miles Murphy thing. I see both
sides of it from a Bengals perspective. I do I
have all these other dudes Miles had, He's had one
half a season of productivity. I have addressed the position
with other guys like.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
You know, prove it. If I also understand the risk.
If I'm Miles I am. It's if I and I
know if I just go out and play like I
did last year, that I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be
like all those guys that just got paid that huge
amount of money, if not more. If he even improves
like I I have a hard time signing anything that
(16:32):
feels like a discount right now. As somebody who if
you believe in yourself and your level of play, I mean,
when you look at Boye MafA, if you he never
had a sixty pressure season, right, like a lot of
these guys have not that Da Fayoe have never had
a season even remotely, Like like you're talking about if
(16:53):
he a level that he's already put on tape for
half a year. If if he does that, I don't
know why you would want to short yourself right now.
The Bengals would have to make that worth his while somehow.
Which is it does that common ground even exist? Especially
when the Bengals are considering that they're in a they're
(17:14):
in a little bit of a good problem to have.
I would say it's better than the previous problem they
didn't have anyone to pay. Yeah, so a good problem
to have right now. But you know, how are they
going to hold on to? Guys? Who are they gonna
hold on to? And then you look at all the
investments they've made at Edge and they at least have
backup plans there where I don't think they have a
backup plan at Corner, right. Yeah, if we're talking about
(17:36):
how you're ranking those which.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So that's that's the thing, like Miles Murphy, Okay, Like
you know, the next order of business was to decide
what to do with him, but he now slides down
the pecking order of of just things they've got to
get done.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah, I mean to me, DJ one maybe miles two
ahead of Docks. Yeah, probably, I mean, I probably, Okay,
I just think they're they're gonna lean more towards DJ
there and and but I mean somewhere in that.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Un clearly DJ Turner's won though.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, and as you just think Miles whoop, they I
think inevitably will be worth more than Dax would be. Okay,
it'll be I mean, I don't know. Maybe Dax has
a huge breakout. You We actually talked to him a
little bit today and he was really interesting on you know,
wanting to stay outside for Robby's reasons. Yeah, I think
he prefers to be outside. Sure could blame him. That's
where the money is money. And we started playing there,
(18:28):
why do I need to have to move around again?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, I was gonna go there next because I did
see and I off the top of my head, I
don't know who I saw it from, but I saw
it on social media was scrum video of him at
his locker putting on a coat. He has the same
coat as my father in law. Which is cool, but
I felt bad for Dax. I feel bad for Dax
to a degree because it's like, you're finally you found
a home. It's taken a while, you have found a home.
And at that home, if if you continue to ascend,
(18:53):
whether it's here or somewhere else, you're gonna get paid.
That's where the money is, and now we may take
you and move you, which strikes me as a little unfair.
And maybe it is what's best for the team, but
a little unfair. And were they able to move you,
the money isn't quite what it is if you are
where you are right now.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah, and I don't think they like I. He certainly
didn't make it sound like they were approaching him about
moving inside right now. But we can see where it
could end up being best for the team that he
has to move in. I mean, that's that's obvious. I
think they would like for him to excel as an
outside corner and have two top level outside corners. I
(19:30):
think they would like that. But if things start falling apart,
we know what can happen, and we know what the
direction could be there. He's you know, he probably deserves better,
like he deserves better but also he is. He's saying, look,
I want to do what the team needs. Sure, I
(19:52):
have stated my preference. I know what my preference is.
I'm also here to help the team. So it's it's
May fifth, you know what I mean. And I think
that's kind of where it's at right now. But he
hasn't been approached by any buddy from the team in
terms of specific of what his role might change to.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Sorry, it's May fifth, But but like, is there somebody
I could be talking about on June fifth?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Like that's at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
But when we get to a month from now and
I need, like, you know, I don't have Trey hendrickson anymore.
And I know I've joked about this with you, but
is there somebody who's gonna cause a stink about something?
Joe Burrow gonna be here by then?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I mean, I hope, so for all of our sakes
except you, I guess you need that. I've gotten two
segments out of it. I believe that he I think
he'll be here by then. I yeah, I mean, you're
these extension people. How they handle it? Are they going
to handle it aggressively? I guess you know, Dax isn't
(20:50):
going to cause a problem that that's been apparent. I
think he wants to be around right now to show everybody, Hey,
I'm I'm good, sure, I'm on born here. Will will
DJ be one that he is like, you know, put
up the big year, became a guy. I want to
be paid like a guy. You're offering me like a
guy who I'm gonna wear a hat? Is that where
that goes? I don't know, like that might be the one,
(21:12):
but I guess there's going to be something. Hopefully it's
not over. Like you know, if you have to have
a first round pick to have to fight with over
language offset language.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
We don't, Thank goodness, I don't have a second round
pick to fight over language.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
There actually might be a secon round pick to fight
over language. That could be a thing. Oh got something
for me? It could potentially, Yeah, the last year it
was right around the fortieth forty first pick was when
when it changed last year in the way some of
his contracts were structured. So potentially we could have some
action for you. Great, there you go.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
It'll be on my radar twenty eight away from four o'clock.
There is something I talked about with you and Jay
on the Growler last week that I want to bring
up here when we come back. After sports headlines. Paul
Danner Junior from the Athletic in the Ground podcast, He's
here till four. We I am here Toll six. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station.
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of yours for live kelseeshev dot com, Reds and Cubs
again tonight, Cincinnati trying to avoid equaling its longest losing
streak from last year. After last night's walk off Chicago win,
Andrew Abbott starts against Jamison tie on seven point forty
(23:04):
is tonight's first pitch on seven hundred WLW. Reds have
yet to release their starting lineup for tonight's game. College
Baseball UC's at Oral Roberts. The Xavier Michigan games scheduled
for Heightenfield today has been canceled. NBA Playoffs to night,
Game one between the Cavs and Pistons in Detroit, Game
one between the Lakers and Thunder in Oklahoma City. NHL
(23:26):
Stanley Cup Playoffs Wild and Avalanche in Denver, with a
Colorado leading that series one game to none. Paul Danner
Juniors here from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
On Bless You Got Now.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Last week on your show, we talked about the comments
by Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight. Now, many of us
have spent a lot of time expressing frustration disappointment of
the fact that Bengals haven't upgraded or at least added
to that position, pointing to the struggles of those players
last year when they were atrocious. There's no getting around it. Sorry,
(24:01):
maybe they were better towards the end of the season,
but they weren't very good. I appreciated the fact that
both talked last week and specifically with Barrett Carter. I
appreciated the fact that I did not take it as
him making an excuse, but he was pointing out something
that I do think needs to be acknowledged, and that's yes,
they struggled as rookies. They were also thrown to the
(24:22):
wolves and set in an environment that was not conducive
to success. And then this is me talking, not them,
and didn't have the safety net of another linebacker on
the field to play with because one guy was playing
opposite another rookie, and so they were experiencing things and
going through things that are hard for a rookie, but
(24:43):
even more difficult in the middle of a bad defense
when you have no other safety net at linebacker. And
I appreciated the fact that Barrett Carter said that, Yeah,
I mean, because it's not untrue.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
It's true, and I think, especially in retrospect, it's different
to talk about it during the season. It feels like
you're giving up or but when you look, if we're
gonna do an honest self scout, they were set up
to fail. And it's fine for him to say that,
you know, his version of that, he's not gonna you
know say it as explicitly as I am, but I'll
(25:16):
say it that way. He was set at to fail.
He threw him in there next to another rookie, and
he's pointing out like, I'd never really seen a quarterback
under center before or a full back, and that's what
the league is. And now you're having to learn to
be instinctual and react to that and understand what you're
looking at. None of that means that Barrett Carter's gonna
(25:38):
be great. It also is understandable why they were so bad,
because you can't that. There's a reason why you don't
ever have two rookies next to each other out there.
You need somebody who's been around and seen it to
help mitigate the mistakes and keep you comfortable out there,
because it's a position based on comfort and instincts. That's
(26:01):
what it is. Is. You got to know what you're seeing,
know what you're looking at, because the whole offense, especially
once they recognize that they didn't, was going to be
based around distracting you from knowing what you're looking at.
And so, yeah, I think it's great that he said that.
I think it's truthful. I think it's just so obvious. Yes,
that he's comfortable saying it. No one is going to
(26:23):
deny that, and I'm sure they've had a lot of
conversations internally about that.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Then I didn't take that as him making excuses for
the issues he had last year. I know they were
accepting of the challenge of year two, and I think
willing to acknowledge, especially Barrett, willing to acknowledge that his rookies,
they had issues, they struggled, and a lot of that
is on them. But I'm glad he provided the context
because I think the context is important.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
It is important, and I think it's part of why
they believe in him and why he believes in him.
You know, I think he looks at it and says,
I felt like once I started understanding what I was
looking at, I played better, and Demetrious Night can kind
of say the same thing, And that's fair because they
did play better, and we can talk about the nature
(27:08):
of the offenses they played down the stretch, and that's fair.
But like they did play better and they didn't look
as lost, and there wasn't that step and a half
of diagnosing that just was slow last year that you
saw so much in the early part of the season
that slow last year that you saw so much in
(27:30):
the early part of the season that was better. And
so also it's not just having I mean, you can't
play behind a bad defensive line and think it's just
gonna be great. Like you also help them with everything
else around them. And I just think they are as
currently constructed, exponentially more set up for success this year.
(27:55):
And so we'll see if that matters or if they're
still just not good enough. Are the Bengals signing Andre Hopkins?
I mean I don't think so. I mean I saw
he's interested in doing he wants to play with Joe Burrow.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Sure are we getting the twenty twenty nine NFL.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Draft appears that there's a good chance to that. I mean,
at a certain point, how many you know, everybody gets
to turn the right there's the list is getting smaller
here and the teams that can do it. And I
think now that they've got a little bit more of
the hotel situation and all that stuff is starting to
(28:31):
sort itself out. I think that was always one of
the biggest things. And says that starts to sort itself out,
it feels like it makes more sense and you can
see it, So, I mean, I think that's it's possible
for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well, they have auditions to be the paid actors who
dress up as football fans that exuberantly cheer every sixth
and seventh round pick, And can I be one of them?
Speaker 3 (28:54):
No, I'm not here to tell you what you can
and can't do with your life if that's what you
want to do. But I sort of wish you would.
I mean I want this for you. Yeah, Now can
you each like round switch to a different team? And
so you're like, wait, didn't I see him in pack?
(29:15):
Lost of the.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Folks that they have face paint, they have apparatus on
that sort of reveals who or hides who some of
these people are.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
So yeah, like, I don't I can I say this.
I don't want to. If if you have a thing,
do your thing, be passionate, Okay, go for it. I
feel like face painting to go to the drafts too far?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
But you, I mean you're busy. You're covering the team
and you're interviewing the people who are in charge of
picking players. When you watch the draft on television, it's
always interesting to me that, especially on Saturday, there will
be people there and by the way, if the draft
is in Cincinnati, I'll go, looks fun, right. I don't
know that I'm going all three days, but you know,
for a few hours, looks like a good time. Looks crowded,
(29:56):
looks crowded, looks like a good time. Looks like a
really cool advertisement for the city. I bad you want this,
but you're getting into like round six. And let's just say,
for the sake of example, the Arizona Cardinals draft a
running back that nobody has heard of in the sixth round.
They'll announce the pick and then they'll pan to the
cluster of Cardinals fans and they're not just like that's cool.
(30:18):
They're losing their mind. Yeah, I mean they are cheering
like their team just won the Super Bowl, right, and
it's like all right. First of all, a lot of
Arizona Cardinal fans in Pittsburgh or Cincinnati or Nashville or
Green Bay, the places they typically have the draft. Right. Secondly,
are you really that excited over this dude? Like when
the Bengals draft the Taj Brooks, I'm like, that's cool.
I watched him play in college, man, he was awesome.
(30:41):
Wondering how he fits in Bengals have a cool running
back room. I wasn't having an orgasm. I wasn't losing
my mind. I wasn't bro hugging people. Like, but you
watch the draft. There is no way in hell those
are real fans. Those are paid actors by the NFL.
I'm not a tenfoil hat guy. Those are paid actors
by the NFL. Hey, we'll pay you, We'll give you
some gear, show up and act like you are so
(31:01):
elated that your team took this guy that you really have.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Never heard of. It's possible. Also, have you ever watched
people react anytime they get on camera, like whether there's
like even at a game when it's halftime or whenever
all of a sudden camera ever seen the video board
at a Reds game, Like the moment you're on TV?
What happens all the things that you said that I
don't want to happen, and so.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Anything bad, he use any foul language?
Speaker 3 (31:28):
This was uncomfortable.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Okay, fine, I'm just saying I feel like that is
a the camera's on me not Hey, look they took
John Smith from USC Upstate, right, Like, I don't think
I just think it's I want to be on camera
and if I go, I'm gonna go nuts at the
moment I'm on camera, the same way everybody seems to
(31:50):
go nuts whenever they're on camera.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
You know, you make a good point. When I was
twenty years old, I was in Dayton, Ohio going to school.
The Cleveland Indians were in the World Series and I
was underage consuming at a bar and Dayton and Channel
two sent a camera crew in there to like grab
Indians fans cheering their team in the World Series, and
they were the Indians at the time, and it had
been a very quiet night. Everybody's just hanging out and
(32:12):
suddenly this camera crew walks in and for about ninety seconds,
people lost their mind and the camera crew left, and
then folks just got back to having dinner talking to
the people they were with, and so I yeah, you're right, Okay,
It's just it's just a natural thing that people do.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I watched My Conspiracy. I always used to laugh when
you know, if you've ever gone around them. In our
our local news sports folks says, we ever go into
any gym, high school, basketball game, whatever. It could be
the most boring game ever, but you put turn the
camera over to the fans right behind you. You're gonna
get a big reaction. It's it's just what it is.
When do you come out with what were you doing?
(32:47):
Drink underage? By the way, I was coerced. Yeah, yeah,
I was against your will. I was twenty beyond me.
I was twenty October of ninety seven. I just I
just view you in a better way.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I ran with the wrong crowd. I just got caught
up with some people that I shouldn't have been associated with, who.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
You're still friends with to this day one of them.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, Uh, when when is your mock schedule coming out?
Speaker 3 (33:13):
When is the real schedule?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Why is this taking so long to just announce when
the date is?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
We have a schedule release show that like, we're ready
to talk about, but we can't schedule until the schedule
release date comes out. Yeah, well, the announcement of the
announcement is what I keep waiting for, Yes, is when
that's But they did at the draft last year. I
think there's still work to be done. I mean I
think not all the pack not all the the TV
packages are are even the five games streaming package that
(33:40):
thing just came out, So I don't know, I don't know.
I don't know like when that's gonna come out or whatever,
but we it does seem to be a trend that
you're hearing now that it could be a week later.
Now this the season starts a week later, like everything's
pushed back, like the openers September thirteen, So cam's going
to be a little bit later. They could probably theories,
(34:00):
but they're just drawing it out, you know. I mean,
I'm sure there's reasons internally that they're that they need
to try to, you know, get whatever they needed to
get together. But yeah, it looks possible that it won't
be next week, that it could be the week.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
After the Bengals are going to play in one of
those international games, I hope.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
So yeah, I mean, what are you rooting for? I'm
personally rooting for Madrid, okay, because I want to go
to Madrid. I've been to London. I've never been to Madrid.
Is that a possibility. It's a possibility. It's part of
the too. I mean, the the Commanders and the Falcons
games both are available, and the Bengals are on both
their schedules. It feels like they're being funneled potentially towards it.
(34:39):
But you know, as these last second schedule changes happen,
you can get things, things can change, but it seems
like they probably end up in one of those too.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
So when we know when the schedule release date is,
is when you'll come out with the mock schedule.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
I mean, I could do the mock schedule right now, right,
but I like to wait for it to be I
like to get a little Well, you got to get
ahead of it now because they turn into a week
long experience. Right so every day on every morning show,
we got to hear about the new Oh we're gonna
release this game in that game. So I got to
get ahead of that now. So maybe I'm gonna be
maybe I'll do it. Sometimes I enjoy the mock schedule.
Why did I enjoy the mock draft? Yeah, well, thank you.
(35:16):
I enjoy doing it. Everybody does a mock draft. Well
you're the only one who does a mock schedule, thank you.
Because I like to dive into the road trip possibility
of where we could match up, whether it's concerts or
college games or reds or whoever, where could we possibly
cross over each year. I'll tell you what I'm rooting for.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Okay, So I haven't been to a Bengals game in
Pittsburgh since nineteen ninety five. Jeff Blake threw three touchdown
passes and the Bengals beat the eventual AFC champion Steelers
twenty seven to nine. I've decided I want to go back. Okay,
you see as at West Virginia Saturday, October seventeenth. Could
(35:56):
I get a ten eighteen Bengals game at whatever they
call that stadium? The Steelers plan on the mock schedule,
and I'll call it the Moeger Special. I've already got
one down, Okay, sixteen more to go. I love that
the Bengals play at the Texans this year. Yeah, you
see is at Houston's Saturday November seventh? Could I get
an early November Texans twin Bill?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yes, got two down?
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Uh, It's it's.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
The beauty of the mock schedule. Mo. You can do
anything you want to do.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Playing the Cardinals, right, I know are not going to Phoenix.
No Phoenix, no NFL team and Ames PROFI well, again,
this is just about me, This is about you.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
I appreciate it. You know, I'm gonna look, I'm gonna
look a little bit more into some of the road
places and some of the concerts that are going on. Maybe, uh,
check the red schedules, eat it. That's always a hard one, yeah,
but sometimes you can catch a red schedule that will
that will match up with with one if you get
really lucky. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
I think that was the case a couple of years ago.
I think the Reds finished the season in Pittsburgh and
the Bengals played there the next day and no, folks who.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Did that remember? One year?
Speaker 4 (36:59):
What?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
But I know now you're sending me. I'm gonna spoil.
You're sending me to Reds dot com September. Amelia Pagan
will still be the closer.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
This is the beauty of the mock schedule. There's so many,
so many possibilities anything. None of it really matters at
Toronto and at Milwaukee. Yeah. The key this year in
the uh in the layout though, is going to be
how many of those first year head coaches and how
many division games end up early Where the Bengals biggest
advantage in the north right is their continuity, So if
(37:30):
they can how many front loaded division games, whether it
be or will this be one of those years, like
you know, we've seen years where all the division games
are in the back half of the season. Uh, if
they can get a few of those frontloaded, specifically the
Ravens game would be an advantage for that.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I was going to say, is it an iron clad
lock that the Ravens game here will be in primetime
and they won't have to go to Baltimore on a
Thursday coming here?
Speaker 3 (37:51):
I never call that an ironclad lock when we've seen
what we've seen with how that game has been scheduled.
But I can say this with one hundred percent fact
the league is very aware. Yes, yes, the Bengals had
a legitimate gripe, so now you owe them a home
game plus Trey's coming back, Tray's coming back. I have
(38:11):
I have ear marked Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday topics for that week.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Should you boo them? Should you share them? I mean,
I just I'm ready to go for that week. I
just need to know which week it is.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, that feels like us A Sunday Night, a Sunday
Night special. Yes, should be at pay Corp. But so
knowing that, certainly probably back to Baltimore on Thanksgiving or something.
Thank you as always, this was fun.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Paul Dayner Junior, The Growler Podcast and the Athletic dot
Com and follow Paul on Twitter at Paul Danner Junior.
Five away from four o'clock. Now we have talked about
Amelia Pagan. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from the
Fifty.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Yeah, maybe the Reds will find a closer since you've
done that. What's up? Good afternoon on Moeger. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty, really the first and I get it.
It's today, just May fifth, first genuine gut punch lots
of the season. Last night, I have another gut punch
for you. Did I read in the Athletic it relates
(00:22):
to Sal Stewart. I'll give you that coming up in
the four o'clock hour. Speaking of the Athletic, it's Tuesday,
which means our guy, Paul Danner Junior is here covering
the Bengals for the Athletic dot Com and of course
the Growler podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
How is it going? I was just worried what the
surprise is going to be? You said something you read
in the Athletic and I do. Here we go again.
This is There's a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Going on at the Athletic because you have a c
trend covering the Reds. He's made Cubs fans mad because
he's dumping on Wrigleyfield on Twitter. You've got Ken Rosenthal
writing about Sal Stewart. That's got me in a crappy mood.
But you're here and that puts me in a good mood.
So so everything's sort of lot's going on with the
athletic but everything sort of all us.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Hopefully I haven't written anything that's put you in no
crappy mood in recent weeks, but not at all. You know,
things are largely in a good place with the Bengals
right now. But I can change that if you'd like.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I've not read the Genostone appreciation piece. There's no no,
there's we're good, We're good.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
It's we were just down there. Uh, and it's very
calm and very boring, be honest, Sen, and you're kind
of in that well one. Nothing's really happening. They're just conditioning.
I guess so. But uh, besides that, though it's lots
of good spirits, lots of good things happened. Joe Burrow
there he was not No. I think we have photo
(01:41):
evidence of him being in other places this week.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Didn't make it back for today's work out with his teammates.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Did not appear to for good, very good.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Speaking of what you've written, I do want to I
do want to talk about the deep dive into how
the Dexter Lawrence trade came to be, which I thought
was was enlightening and very good, and it gave me
some things I want to ask you about good. So
if you read that at the Athletic dot com, yes,
there's a lot to it. I've printed a few passages
good that stood out to me from the piece.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
No, these are good. These are good. Now we're all
on board. This is good stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
This is the Bengals going forward, this is training for
Dexter Lawrence. This is good. But there were a few
things that stood out to me that I thought we
could ask you to elaborate on, sure, without giving away
all the content you wrote. This opportunity seemed different potentially
from the beginning. At the very least, the immediate reaction
didn't require as much selling to the family ownership of
(02:33):
Mike Brown and Troy and Katie Blackburn, Paul Brown, as
well as Caroline and Elizabeth Blackburn, because I think a
lot of has had in our mind's eye this vision
of like Duke Tobin Heaven to go in and sell
those folks on what he wanted to do, and it's
encouraging that that wasn't the case.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I yeah, I think that was kind of the idea
of it.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
You know, you've been doing a talk show at three
o'clock in the afternoon for that's my ringer. Yeah, for
nineteen years. And my mom is calling. Now it's on
me to have the phone ring her off. But been
on the I've been in this time slot for seventeen years.
Mom knows this. There's mom breaking off a phone call. Well,
we'll get to it during the break.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Please continue. It's Mother's Day this weekend. You should be nicer.
I will be very nice on Sunday when I call
her at a time that's a little at a time
that's a little bit more for all of us. Yeah,
where were we talking about?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Total didn't have to go in and sell Mike and
Katie and Carolyn and everybody on the whole one.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
That was kind of my question and thought about it too.
It was like, is that what this was? Well, you
go in and say, hey, maybe we should try to
do this, or maybe there was resistance along the way,
and there didn't seem to be. But I think that
also came from a place of you know, early on
in the off season and acknowledgment of number ten can
(03:56):
be a weapon, and so I think when they're already
in that place, even after they had spent all the
money in free agency, there was a willingness to be
open to those ideas over the course of this offseason.
But yeah, I think it's good. You know, the answer
could have been, yeah, they were not so sure at first,
(04:16):
but eventually once X, Y and Z happened, they were
more open to it. But that no, that's at least
according to you know, everything that I was told, that's
how it went.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
The other one that stood out to me was you
wrote what was clear coming out of the Lawrence move
was that they now must re evaluate the previous assumptions
made about how they go forward. Tobin sounded more open
to the possibility of restructuring burrows contract than he was
when originally asked about it in February. And then you
(04:45):
also wrote about the ramifications and the structure and aggressiveness
of negotiations with players like DJ Turner, Dack Hill, and
Chase Brown, as well as the fifth year option decision
for Miles Murphy which they've made, which is a little
bit of a separate topic, but I think there's sort
of the big takeaway for me. It's like I was
thinking about this when we saw the viral clip this
week of DeAndre Hopkins saying he wants to play with
(05:06):
Joe Burrow and maybe that idea has no merit, but
now like it feels like there's nothing off the table
with this franchise.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah. Normally you would say, well, that's not gonna happen,
but that's not what they do.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
That's what they do.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Now it could happen. Yeah, But I do think it
was interesting, you know because Steve Ardisovik when when he
was talking about he was like, I have never been
in a place like this with the cap here before,
and he's been here for a decade and a half. Okay,
so like this is new territory, and so a lot
(05:39):
of the presumptions about where a move like this, or
the approach from ownership in a situation like this would be,
I think are just they're they're gone after this, because
you're seeing them willingly put themselves in places they've never
willingly gone before, whether it be with financials or how
they've sort of dealt with everything this off season, and
(06:00):
so yeah, I think it's certainly been the perception changer,
and that's internally and externally.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Do you think a borrow restructure happens? Do you think
it happens soon. Do you think it has to happen.
I don't think it has to happen. I mean they're
in a good enough place. I just think, you know,
there are opportunities to do more things. That's not necessarily
even talking about external I just think they have to.
When they talk about making it fit, that was the
big thing. Everybody used that phrase, how do we make
(06:28):
it fit? Like they make this work?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
It was reimagining that because I think they had a
plan in mind before Dexter Lawrence of what all this
would look like. And I'm speaking of extensions, I'm speaking
of what was the fifth year option for Miles Murphy.
All of these things kind of in their own little
work left to do bucket. So now it's how does
that get done? Does a Burrow restructure need to get
(06:53):
done in order them to make the next few years
work right for whoever they want to extend or whatever
that is. They don't have to do it, but it
would seem that if they need to reconfigure the way
some things look, that's where you start, is how to
reconfigure some wasting some things look.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So Duke is obviously much more meanable to doing it.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Do you think. I mean that was just based on
his answer. Yeah, I mean that's his answer in February
was basically like, we have a plan to do that
without having to restructure Burrow. Well, we'll open our minds
to that if we have to. And this time it
was we're talking about it, you know what I mean essentially,
And so that was it sounded like a guy who
(07:38):
sounds much more open to the concept of doing that
and is part of what they've got to figure out.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Can you comment on something else that I read in
the Athletic that wasn't in a piece that you wrote. Sure,
this is Mike Sando canvassing NFL executives on what teams
did in the draft. I read that and he he
wrote about how one executive suggested the Bengals could have
tried to involve a third team if there was one
that wanted to move up to number ten and perhaps
(08:05):
bring a mid round pick back to Cincinnati. I think
there are other folks who have sort of expressed this
belief that maybe they could have squeezed the Giants for
a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
You believe that. I do believe. I believe that it
felt like they should have gotten more that there should
have been some form of return. I agree there Yeah,
not massive, but no, no, that's you. You would think
a third or fourth or some some sort of swap
whatever that is would have felt right there. I would
agree with that. Involving A thirteen, there were there were
(08:35):
just a lot of problems with doing anything ahead of time,
Like teams with the draft were not gonna want to
move around with their position before that that night, They
couldn't really do that. So just by the nature of
needing to do the negotiation and physical and all other stuff.
So I just think they kind of resigned themselves to
the fact that it wasn't going to involve teams moving
(08:57):
up or additional and additional team being involved.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
It feels to me like had they tried to get
another team involved, that could have compromised the deal they
had done with the Giants yet potentially.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
And because I mean they kept a real tight circle
on that m I mean real tight. There was there
was not There was a lot of people that you
would think would know that were surprised. There was just generally,
I mean, they didn't want it to be something that
a lot of people knew about or that was really
out there because you don't want it to be another thing.
It kind of got out they were involved with Max Crosby,
(09:31):
and they didn't want to look like another swing and
miss in case it doesn't happen at the end, which
you know is always a possibility with those things, and
where it was going, So yeah, I think it was there.
It was purposely kept to a really tight, small, comfortable circle,
so involving more might have potentially jeopardized some of that,
or at least made it more complicated. And they were
really feeling the time and ticking a little faster there
(09:53):
by the time they got to the weekend before the draft.
They didn't want to push close to the wire. They
they felt like they were ready to make the move,
and they felt like the timing to do it was
right then so that they could get themselves fully prepared
for what was going to be a new setup for
them in the draft and get everything done.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Paul Danner Junior is here covering the Bengals for The
Athletic as well as the Growler podcast. Uh you could
read the inside story is How to the Dexter Lawrence
as to how the Dexter Lawrence trade went down. If
you read Paul's work at the Athletic dot com. If
you haven't ready yet, go check that out. And uh,
the latest Growler podcast is uh who they Like from
(10:30):
from Friday? From Friday is up there. We were into
a bunch of different times. Co host just dumps all
over local TV news. I mean temporarily he did. I
think he's a supporter of local TV news. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
The last time you were on you did you showed
up in a in a suit and tie. I were
trying to class up our price, and I think I did.
I think you did too, I really do. I think
you were on a something that I think we should
become the classy podcast, and we just were suiting tie
in our in our rooms.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It just remoked a little too cable Newsy for me. Yeah,
because as I was watching it, as I was doing
and I thought, like I think I even said, like,
I feel like I should be talking about the straight
up horror moves, right yeah, So, and I trust me,
I don't want to have to talk about that, so
I don't. I have sort of revisited whether the next
time I appear on the podcast, if I'll be wearing
(11:20):
though also I only have one suit jacket.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Yeah really so yes, lets me come back with that.
But maybe you're always wearing something surprising, kind of like
Joe Burrow at the Met Gala, Like maybe you maybe
you show up in something fancy like that, or maybe
you go with the like the T shirt combo that
he was wearing at the after party. And if you
saw those photos circulating.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, I'm mute in met gala on Twitter this morning.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Oh good for you. I'm good for you. I don't care.
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
It's a sixteen minutes after three o'clock. Paul Danner Junior's
here till four. We have Amelio Pagan blowing a game
last night. We have to talk about a little bit
later on on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty, Traffic.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
WCKY Cincinnati and iHeartRadio Station Ginner and Ted Human ESPN
fifteen thirty I Hard twenty three minutes after three o'clock.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
This is ESPN fifteen thirty mo Edgar, thanks so much
for listening today. Hopefully you're having an awesome Tuesday afternoon.
Paul Danner Junior is with us until four o'clock on
the Bengals follow him at Paul Daanner Junior. Your level
of surprise that the Bengals didn't pick up Miles Murphy's
fifth year option, Well, it would have.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Been certainly a little more surprising one before the Dexter
Lawrence deal and definitely two before we heard Duke Tobin
talk about it last week. I mean he kind of
put the writing on the wall in that one that
the Lawrence deal changed the way their finance finances looked
for that it very much felt like they planned on
(12:55):
picking it up until that, and now it put it
into a different like we were talking about earlier allocation
and they're going to try to get a long term
deal done. I find this fascinating because there's both sides
have a real opportunity here to figure out what they
want this to be. Is Miles Murphy gonna bet on
(13:17):
himself because he if he ends up having a season
like I think they think he's going to and like
he thinks he should, even if he just has a
season that is a full season of what he was
the second half of last year, Yeah, which would extrapolate
out to like sixty plus pressures and double digit sacks.
(13:39):
You know what, his number is it's like a Dafeoway
boy off. We just saw these guys get paid twenty
plus million per year.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
It's a lot more than the fourteen and a half
he would have gone.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
You would have gotten here. And then there's the other
side for the Bengals of is there an incentive to
get in early on this if this guy is a
part of your future. Now they have invested in a
lot of other edges, but this guy has shown the
most promise out of any of the buddy that they
have picked now in terms of proven promise. Do you
(14:10):
go in early a little bit on this and can
you get the discount we've talked how many times have
we talked about yesterday's price and today's price on here
in recent years? This is a good opportunity for that
to try to maybe they can where Okay, Miles gets
a little bit more money before he ever actually does
any of it, and the Bengals maybe end up with
a bargain after this year. Are they willing to do that?
(14:31):
Is he willing to do that? I think it's a
kind of a fascinating negotiation to see what each side
wants to get out of it. Otherwise, the Bengals jeopardize
losing him next year, And maybe that's just a part
of that they're gonna have to deal with. But I
certainly have never gotten the impression that they view him
that way, that he is one that they would want
to see go. But now throw him in the bucket
(14:52):
with the rest of them. DJ Turner and Dax Hill
and Chase Brown and all these guys. Now, not all
these guys are getting paid. I can tell you that much.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
What he should do is this sign an extension, Go
have a great year, and then complain about the extension
he just signed, and give me a two year long
soap opera.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yeah, this is perfect, can we, Miles, Miles, I feel
like it's possible. Miles, there's can we? There's very much
press Just follow follow the tail, pick your pick the
phone up, Trey, can your agent advise me?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Here, We're gonna sign this deal. But it's cool if
I have a good year and then complain about the deal,
like nine months after I sign it.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
When do I request a trade and then immediately rescind it? Right? Like?
When do I do that part? Yes? You know, just
whenever I put so I'm looking for Yeah, this is
this is perfect.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
By the way, is Trey Hendrickson Is he already threatening
to hold out in Baltimore or any rumblings about that
that he's already unhappy with his new deal?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
What happened at the end of that video that was
going around at him in the Ravens Jersey. At the
end of that He's like, and I need a new deal?
Was that ended?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I do with the Miles Murphy thing. I see both
sides of it from a Bengals perspective. I do I
have all these other dudes Miles had, He's had one
half a season of productivity. I have addressed the position
with other guys like.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
You know, prove it. If I also understand the risk.
If I'm Miles I am. It's if I and I
know if I just go out and play like I
did last year, that I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be
like all those guys that just got paid that huge
amount of money, if not more. If he even improves
like I I have a hard time signing anything that
(16:32):
feels like a discount right now. As somebody who if
you believe in yourself and your level of play, I mean,
when you look at Boye MafA, if you he never
had a sixty pressure season, right, like a lot of
these guys have not that Da Fayoe have never had
a season even remotely, Like like you're talking about if
(16:53):
he a level that he's already put on tape for
half a year. If if he does that, I don't
know why you would want to short yourself right now.
The Bengals would have to make that worth his while somehow.
Which is it does that common ground even exist? Especially
when the Bengals are considering that they're in a they're
(17:14):
in a little bit of a good problem to have.
I would say it's better than the previous problem they
didn't have anyone to pay. Yeah, so a good problem
to have right now. But you know, how are they
going to hold on to? Guys? Who are they gonna
hold on to? And then you look at all the
investments they've made at Edge and they at least have
backup plans there where I don't think they have a
backup plan at Corner, right. Yeah, if we're talking about
(17:36):
how you're ranking those which.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
So that's that's the thing, like Miles Murphy, Okay, Like
you know, the next order of business was to decide
what to do with him, but he now slides down
the pecking order of of just things they've got to
get done.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Yeah, I mean to me, DJ one maybe miles two
ahead of Docks. Yeah, probably, I mean, I probably, Okay,
I just think they're they're gonna lean more towards DJ
there and and but I mean somewhere in that.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Un clearly DJ Turner's won though.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah, and as you just think Miles whoop, they I
think inevitably will be worth more than Dax would be. Okay,
it'll be I mean, I don't know. Maybe Dax has
a huge breakout. You We actually talked to him a
little bit today and he was really interesting on you know,
wanting to stay outside for Robby's reasons. Yeah, I think
he prefers to be outside. Sure could blame him. That's
where the money is money. And we started playing there,
(18:28):
why do I need to have to move around again?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, I was gonna go there next because I did
see and I off the top of my head, I
don't know who I saw it from, but I saw
it on social media was scrum video of him at
his locker putting on a coat. He has the same
coat as my father in law. Which is cool, but
I felt bad for Dax. I feel bad for Dax
to a degree because it's like, you're finally you found
a home. It's taken a while, you have found a home.
And at that home, if if you continue to ascend,
(18:53):
whether it's here or somewhere else, you're gonna get paid.
That's where the money is, and now we may take
you and move you, which strikes me as a little unfair.
And maybe it is what's best for the team, but
a little unfair. And were they able to move you,
the money isn't quite what it is if you are
where you are right now.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yeah, and I don't think they like I. He certainly
didn't make it sound like they were approaching him about
moving inside right now. But we can see where it
could end up being best for the team that he
has to move in. I mean, that's that's obvious. I
think they would like for him to excel as an
outside corner and have two top level outside corners. I
(19:30):
think they would like that. But if things start falling apart,
we know what can happen, and we know what the
direction could be there. He's you know, he probably deserves better,
like he deserves better but also he is. He's saying, look,
I want to do what the team needs. Sure, I
(19:52):
have stated my preference. I know what my preference is.
I'm also here to help the team. So it's it's
May fifth, you know what I mean. And I think
that's kind of where it's at right now. But he
hasn't been approached by any buddy from the team in
terms of specific of what his role might change to.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Sorry, it's May fifth, But but like, is there somebody
I could be talking about on June fifth?
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Like that's at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
But when we get to a month from now and
I need, like, you know, I don't have Trey hendrickson anymore.
And I know I've joked about this with you, but
is there somebody who's gonna cause a stink about something?
Joe Burrow gonna be here by then?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I mean, I hope, so for all of our sakes
except you, I guess you need that. I've gotten two
segments out of it. I believe that he I think
he'll be here by then. I yeah, I mean, you're
these extension people. How they handle it? Are they going
to handle it aggressively? I guess you know, Dax isn't
(20:50):
going to cause a problem that that's been apparent. I
think he wants to be around right now to show everybody, Hey,
I'm I'm good, sure, I'm on born here. Will will
DJ be one that he is like, you know, put
up the big year, became a guy. I want to
be paid like a guy. You're offering me like a
guy who I'm gonna wear a hat? Is that where
that goes? I don't know, like that might be the one,
(21:12):
but I guess there's going to be something. Hopefully it's
not over. Like you know, if you have to have
a first round pick to have to fight with over
language offset language.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
We don't, Thank goodness, I don't have a second round
pick to fight over language.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
There actually might be a secon round pick to fight
over language. That could be a thing. Oh got something
for me? It could potentially, Yeah, the last year it
was right around the fortieth forty first pick was when
when it changed last year in the way some of
his contracts were structured. So potentially we could have some
action for you. Great, there you go.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
It'll be on my radar twenty eight away from four o'clock.
There is something I talked about with you and Jay
on the Growler last week that I want to bring
up here when we come back. After sports headlines. Paul
Danner Junior from the Athletic in the Ground podcast, He's
here till four. We I am here Toll six. This
is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Not just talk.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
This is sports with soul, sweat and swagger. Tony Pike,
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Westbound two subingals like ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Sports Headlines are a service at Kelsey Chevrolet, home of
lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family
of yours for live kelseeshev dot com, Reds and Cubs
again tonight, Cincinnati trying to avoid equaling its longest losing
streak from last year. After last night's walk off Chicago win,
Andrew Abbott starts against Jamison tie on seven point forty
(23:04):
is tonight's first pitch on seven hundred WLW. Reds have
yet to release their starting lineup for tonight's game. College
Baseball UC's at Oral Roberts. The Xavier Michigan games scheduled
for Heightenfield today has been canceled. NBA Playoffs to night,
Game one between the Cavs and Pistons in Detroit, Game
one between the Lakers and Thunder in Oklahoma City. NHL
(23:26):
Stanley Cup Playoffs Wild and Avalanche in Denver, with a
Colorado leading that series one game to none. Paul Danner
Juniors here from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
On Bless You Got Now.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Last week on your show, we talked about the comments
by Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight. Now, many of us
have spent a lot of time expressing frustration disappointment of
the fact that Bengals haven't upgraded or at least added
to that position, pointing to the struggles of those players
last year when they were atrocious. There's no getting around it. Sorry,
(24:01):
maybe they were better towards the end of the season,
but they weren't very good. I appreciated the fact that
both talked last week and specifically with Barrett Carter. I
appreciated the fact that I did not take it as
him making an excuse, but he was pointing out something
that I do think needs to be acknowledged, and that's yes,
they struggled as rookies. They were also thrown to the
(24:22):
wolves and set in an environment that was not conducive
to success. And then this is me talking, not them,
and didn't have the safety net of another linebacker on
the field to play with because one guy was playing
opposite another rookie, and so they were experiencing things and
going through things that are hard for a rookie, but
(24:43):
even more difficult in the middle of a bad defense
when you have no other safety net at linebacker. And
I appreciated the fact that Barrett Carter said that, Yeah,
I mean, because it's not untrue.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
It's true, and I think, especially in retrospect, it's different
to talk about it during the season. It feels like
you're giving up or but when you look, if we're
gonna do an honest self scout, they were set up
to fail. And it's fine for him to say that,
you know, his version of that, he's not gonna you
know say it as explicitly as I am, but I'll
(25:16):
say it that way. He was set at to fail.
He threw him in there next to another rookie, and
he's pointing out like, I'd never really seen a quarterback
under center before or a full back, and that's what
the league is. And now you're having to learn to
be instinctual and react to that and understand what you're
looking at. None of that means that Barrett Carter's gonna
(25:38):
be great. It also is understandable why they were so bad,
because you can't that. There's a reason why you don't
ever have two rookies next to each other out there.
You need somebody who's been around and seen it to
help mitigate the mistakes and keep you comfortable out there,
because it's a position based on comfort and instincts. That's
(26:01):
what it is. Is. You got to know what you're seeing,
know what you're looking at, because the whole offense, especially
once they recognize that they didn't, was going to be
based around distracting you from knowing what you're looking at.
And so, yeah, I think it's great that he said that.
I think it's truthful. I think it's just so obvious. Yes,
that he's comfortable saying it. No one is going to
(26:23):
deny that, and I'm sure they've had a lot of
conversations internally about that.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Then I didn't take that as him making excuses for
the issues he had last year. I know they were
accepting of the challenge of year two, and I think
willing to acknowledge, especially Barrett, willing to acknowledge that his rookies,
they had issues, they struggled, and a lot of that
is on them. But I'm glad he provided the context
because I think the context is important.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
It is important, and I think it's part of why
they believe in him and why he believes in him.
You know, I think he looks at it and says,
I felt like once I started understanding what I was
looking at, I played better, and Demetrious Night can kind
of say the same thing, And that's fair because they
did play better, and we can talk about the nature
(27:08):
of the offenses they played down the stretch, and that's fair.
But like they did play better and they didn't look
as lost, and there wasn't that step and a half
of diagnosing that just was slow last year that you
saw so much in the early part of the season
that slow last year that you saw so much in
(27:30):
the early part of the season that was better. And
so also it's not just having I mean, you can't
play behind a bad defensive line and think it's just
gonna be great. Like you also help them with everything
else around them. And I just think they are as
currently constructed, exponentially more set up for success this year.
(27:55):
And so we'll see if that matters or if they're
still just not good enough. Are the Bengals signing Andre Hopkins?
I mean I don't think so. I mean I saw
he's interested in doing he wants to play with Joe Burrow.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Sure are we getting the twenty twenty nine NFL.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Draft appears that there's a good chance to that. I mean,
at a certain point, how many you know, everybody gets
to turn the right there's the list is getting smaller
here and the teams that can do it. And I
think now that they've got a little bit more of
the hotel situation and all that stuff is starting to
(28:31):
sort itself out. I think that was always one of
the biggest things. And says that starts to sort itself out,
it feels like it makes more sense and you can
see it, So, I mean, I think that's it's possible
for sure.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Well, they have auditions to be the paid actors who
dress up as football fans that exuberantly cheer every sixth
and seventh round pick, And can I be one of them?
Speaker 3 (28:54):
No, I'm not here to tell you what you can
and can't do with your life if that's what you
want to do. But I sort of wish you would.
I mean I want this for you. Yeah, Now can
you each like round switch to a different team? And
so you're like, wait, didn't I see him in pack?
(29:15):
Lost of the.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Folks that they have face paint, they have apparatus on
that sort of reveals who or hides who some of
these people are.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
So yeah, like, I don't I can I say this.
I don't want to. If if you have a thing,
do your thing, be passionate, Okay, go for it. I
feel like face painting to go to the drafts too far?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
But you, I mean you're busy. You're covering the team
and you're interviewing the people who are in charge of
picking players. When you watch the draft on television, it's
always interesting to me that, especially on Saturday, there will
be people there and by the way, if the draft
is in Cincinnati, I'll go, looks fun, right. I don't
know that I'm going all three days, but you know,
for a few hours, looks like a good time. Looks crowded,
(29:56):
looks crowded, looks like a good time. Looks like a
really cool advertisement for the city. I bad you want this,
but you're getting into like round six. And let's just say,
for the sake of example, the Arizona Cardinals draft a
running back that nobody has heard of in the sixth round.
They'll announce the pick and then they'll pan to the
cluster of Cardinals fans and they're not just like that's cool.
(30:18):
They're losing their mind. Yeah, I mean they are cheering
like their team just won the Super Bowl, right, and
it's like all right. First of all, a lot of
Arizona Cardinal fans in Pittsburgh or Cincinnati or Nashville or
Green Bay, the places they typically have the draft. Right. Secondly,
are you really that excited over this dude? Like when
the Bengals draft the Taj Brooks, I'm like, that's cool.
I watched him play in college, man, he was awesome.
(30:41):
Wondering how he fits in Bengals have a cool running
back room. I wasn't having an orgasm. I wasn't losing
my mind. I wasn't bro hugging people. Like, but you
watch the draft. There is no way in hell those
are real fans. Those are paid actors by the NFL.
I'm not a tenfoil hat guy. Those are paid actors
by the NFL. Hey, we'll pay you, We'll give you
some gear, show up and act like you are so
(31:01):
elated that your team took this guy that you really have.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Never heard of. It's possible. Also, have you ever watched
people react anytime they get on camera, like whether there's
like even at a game when it's halftime or whenever
all of a sudden camera ever seen the video board
at a Reds game, Like the moment you're on TV?
What happens all the things that you said that I
don't want to happen, and so.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Anything bad, he use any foul language?
Speaker 3 (31:28):
This was uncomfortable.
Speaker 6 (31:29):
Okay, fine, I'm just saying I feel like that is
a the camera's on me not Hey, look they took
John Smith from USC Upstate, right, Like, I don't think
I just think it's I want to be on camera
and if I go, I'm gonna go nuts at the
moment I'm on camera, the same way everybody seems to
(31:50):
go nuts whenever they're on camera.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
You know, you make a good point. When I was
twenty years old, I was in Dayton, Ohio going to school.
The Cleveland Indians were in the World Series and I
was underage consuming at a bar and Dayton and Channel
two sent a camera crew in there to like grab
Indians fans cheering their team in the World Series, and
they were the Indians at the time, and it had
been a very quiet night. Everybody's just hanging out and
(32:12):
suddenly this camera crew walks in and for about ninety seconds,
people lost their mind and the camera crew left, and
then folks just got back to having dinner talking to
the people they were with, and so I yeah, you're right, Okay,
It's just it's just a natural thing that people do.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I watched My Conspiracy. I always used to laugh when
you know, if you've ever gone around them. In our
our local news sports folks says, we ever go into
any gym, high school, basketball game, whatever. It could be
the most boring game ever, but you put turn the
camera over to the fans right behind you. You're gonna
get a big reaction. It's it's just what it is.
When do you come out with what were you doing?
(32:47):
Drink underage? By the way, I was coerced. Yeah, yeah,
I was against your will. I was twenty beyond me.
I was twenty October of ninety seven. I just I
just view you in a better way.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I ran with the wrong crowd. I just got caught
up with some people that I shouldn't have been associated with, who.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
You're still friends with to this day one of them.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, Uh, when when is your mock schedule coming out?
Speaker 3 (33:13):
When is the real schedule?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Why is this taking so long to just announce when
the date is?
Speaker 3 (33:18):
We have a schedule release show that like, we're ready
to talk about, but we can't schedule until the schedule
release date comes out. Yeah, well, the announcement of the
announcement is what I keep waiting for, Yes, is when
that's But they did at the draft last year. I
think there's still work to be done. I mean I
think not all the pack not all the the TV
packages are are even the five games streaming package that
(33:40):
thing just came out, So I don't know, I don't know.
I don't know like when that's gonna come out or whatever,
but we it does seem to be a trend that
you're hearing now that it could be a week later.
Now this the season starts a week later, like everything's
pushed back, like the openers September thirteen, So cam's going
to be a little bit later. They could probably theories,
(34:00):
but they're just drawing it out, you know. I mean,
I'm sure there's reasons internally that they're that they need
to try to, you know, get whatever they needed to
get together. But yeah, it looks possible that it won't
be next week, that it could be the week.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
After the Bengals are going to play in one of
those international games, I hope.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
So yeah, I mean, what are you rooting for? I'm
personally rooting for Madrid, okay, because I want to go
to Madrid. I've been to London. I've never been to Madrid.
Is that a possibility. It's a possibility. It's part of
the too. I mean, the the Commanders and the Falcons
games both are available, and the Bengals are on both
their schedules. It feels like they're being funneled potentially towards it.
(34:39):
But you know, as these last second schedule changes happen,
you can get things, things can change, but it seems
like they probably end up in one of those too.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
So when we know when the schedule release date is,
is when you'll come out with the mock schedule.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
I mean, I could do the mock schedule right now, right,
but I like to wait for it to be I
like to get a little Well, you got to get
ahead of it now because they turn into a week
long experience. Right so every day on every morning show,
we got to hear about the new Oh we're gonna
release this game in that game. So I got to
get ahead of that now. So maybe I'm gonna be
maybe I'll do it. Sometimes I enjoy the mock schedule.
Why did I enjoy the mock draft? Yeah, well, thank you.
(35:16):
I enjoy doing it. Everybody does a mock draft. Well
you're the only one who does a mock schedule, thank you.
Because I like to dive into the road trip possibility
of where we could match up, whether it's concerts or
college games or reds or whoever, where could we possibly
cross over each year. I'll tell you what I'm rooting for.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Okay, So I haven't been to a Bengals game in
Pittsburgh since nineteen ninety five. Jeff Blake threw three touchdown
passes and the Bengals beat the eventual AFC champion Steelers
twenty seven to nine. I've decided I want to go back. Okay,
you see as at West Virginia Saturday, October seventeenth. Could
(35:56):
I get a ten eighteen Bengals game at whatever they
call that stadium? The Steelers plan on the mock schedule,
and I'll call it the Moeger Special. I've already got
one down, Okay, sixteen more to go. I love that
the Bengals play at the Texans this year. Yeah, you
see is at Houston's Saturday November seventh? Could I get
an early November Texans twin Bill?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yes, got two down?
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Uh, It's it's.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
The beauty of the mock schedule. Mo. You can do
anything you want to do.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Playing the Cardinals, right, I know are not going to Phoenix.
No Phoenix, no NFL team and Ames PROFI well, again,
this is just about me, This is about you.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
I appreciate it. You know, I'm gonna look, I'm gonna
look a little bit more into some of the road
places and some of the concerts that are going on. Maybe, uh,
check the red schedules, eat it. That's always a hard one, yeah,
but sometimes you can catch a red schedule that will
that will match up with with one if you get
really lucky. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
I think that was the case a couple of years ago.
I think the Reds finished the season in Pittsburgh and
the Bengals played there the next day and no, folks who.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Did that remember? One year?
Speaker 4 (36:59):
What?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
But I know now you're sending me. I'm gonna spoil.
You're sending me to Reds dot com September. Amelia Pagan
will still be the closer.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
This is the beauty of the mock schedule. There's so many,
so many possibilities anything. None of it really matters at
Toronto and at Milwaukee. Yeah. The key this year in
the uh in the layout though, is going to be
how many of those first year head coaches and how
many division games end up early Where the Bengals biggest
advantage in the north right is their continuity, So if
(37:30):
they can how many front loaded division games, whether it
be or will this be one of those years, like
you know, we've seen years where all the division games
are in the back half of the season. Uh, if
they can get a few of those frontloaded, specifically the
Ravens game would be an advantage for that.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I was going to say, is it an iron clad
lock that the Ravens game here will be in primetime
and they won't have to go to Baltimore on a
Thursday coming here?
Speaker 3 (37:51):
I never call that an ironclad lock when we've seen
what we've seen with how that game has been scheduled.
But I can say this with one hundred percent fact
the league is very aware. Yes, yes, the Bengals had
a legitimate gripe, so now you owe them a home
game plus Trey's coming back, Tray's coming back. I have
(38:11):
I have ear marked Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday topics for that week.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Should you boo them? Should you share them? I mean,
I just I'm ready to go for that week. I
just need to know which week it is.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, that feels like us A Sunday Night, a Sunday
Night special. Yes, should be at pay Corp. But so
knowing that, certainly probably back to Baltimore on Thanksgiving or something.
Thank you as always, this was fun.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Paul Dayner Junior, The Growler Podcast and the Athletic dot
Com and follow Paul on Twitter at Paul Danner Junior.
Five away from four o'clock. Now we have talked about
Amelia Pagan. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic from the
Mo Egger News
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