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June 11, 2024 103 mins
The battle for the Ohio Cup begins today we preview Reds/Guardians. Plus Hear from the Bengals QB Joe Burrow who is not on the Madden cover.
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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Paul Dayner Junior and Moe Agger instudio talking all things Bengals in general,
NFL topics on ESPN fifteen thirty,Cincinnati Sports Station. Wow. Correct me
if I'm wrong. I'm not surewe have used that in a while,
and if we have, I justhaven't been paying very good attention. Get
Afternoon on Mowgar. This is ESPNfifteen thirty. Thank you for listening.

(00:24):
Hopefully you're having an awesome and Ido mean awesome Tuesday afternoon. Before we
get started, our buddy, PaulDayner Junior is here. Let's send some
congratulations to the Pike family. Ihave never met two people who have worked
as quickly as Tony and Meredith Pike, who got married in October of twenty

(00:48):
nineteen and now have in less thanfive years three kids. Meredith gave birth
late last night to Walker Kent Pike. Tony's posted some photos. Little guy
is beautiful. Meredith, by allaccounts, is doing really well. Tony
said he had not slept all nightlong. Who cares about him? We're
concerned about her, but mainly congratulationsto both a great family. Three kids

(01:15):
in like four months and four yearsand eight months. That is incredible.
And I don't know that they're done. That's none of my business. But
they have not told me that they'redone. Maybe they are, maybe they
aren't. But Walker Kent Pike bornyesterday, and we congratulation to send our
congratulations to the Pikes. I haveno idea when Tony's going to be back
at work. I think this companynow has like a legitimate paternity leave policy,

(01:40):
which did not exist when we hadour one kid, So Tony might
not be back until mid July.And nonetheless, I hope everybody is doing
well. And if you get aminute, Tony obviously is pretty active on
social media, send him congratulations.That's obviously why he was not here today.
Again, can gratulations to the Pikefamily. Paul's here, How you

(02:01):
doing, I'm doing great. Congratsto Tony and Meredith. I the dive
into three kids is a that's abig decision. You've just decided. Look,
my personal hopes and dreams are officiallygone. Well, I do appreciate
them condensing it, right, yeah, right, right, because you and
I both know people. Now youhave two, I have one, they'll

(02:22):
have the two. And then itfeels like there's some light at the end
of the tunnel, and then it'syou know what, let's do it again.
Yeah, and then you got alittle bit of a separation. His
three cloistered pretty close together in termsof age. I always feel like once
you get to three, they're justraising each other anyway. I mean,
really, at this point, it'sreally just you're just training the oldest to

(02:45):
take over, you know, supervisoryroles directly into like, how come,
let's just set you up as ourbabysitter in charge. Now here's the key
to the house. You know,here's a cell phone to get a hold
of us. That's kind of that'sgonna be the tough part of the squeeze
that they have there. You'll haveenough of the gap for that that oldest
to basically be the one raising theyoungest. So tough scene well as somebody

(03:07):
who is ten years older than mysister, yeah, thirteen years older than
my brother. I know what it'slike in the prime of your social life
to be told actually, what you'regonna do is watch these two toddlers,
So go ahead. My my motherin law had four, and she often
jokes about how like the last oneit was like not even hers, like,
yeah, you guys, and thescars that remain get brought up all

(03:28):
the time. Anyway, Congratulations tothe Pikes. Paul's here, Paul Dander
Junior cover the Bengals the Athletic.Get it at the Athletic dot com or
ny Times dot com. It's itall takes you to the same it all
goes to the same place. Andthe Growler Podcast, which I'm sure is
going to be busy this week,even the facts that there's actual stuff to
cover and discuss with mini camp underway, Yeah, Jay and I will be

(03:51):
talking through everything we've got who daylate later this week. I got an
interview lined up for tomorrow. Fillingthe space, as they say, filling
the space, there's a lot ofthere's a lot of space to fill and
a lot to fill it with.Joe Burrow was at practice today, and
yes he was at practice. Wow, he was in front of a microphone.
So we can make all our bigJoe Burrow sweeping judgments. Okay,

(04:12):
well, let's do it. He'sready to go, correct I don't think
so? Okay, I don't think. I mean he said he'll be ready
to go by week one. It'snot week one. It is not.
And I you know, I don'tthink that. I think we talked this.
It's weird because I feel like we'rehaving the same conversation today that we
had a month ago when Joe kindof said this for the first time,

(04:35):
which is that his growth this offseasonis learning to back off a little bit
and learning how to handle his owninjuries and not think that I am the
invincible person who just pushes through everything, because that's what got him to this
point. And he talked more aboutthat today, and I think the what

(04:56):
are we gonna go the hubbub lastweek potential of him hysteria, that's what
I think. It was, hysteriaover missing a couple of practices. And
you know, today I thought itwas pretty light work for him. We
didn't really. It wasn't a lotof like, you know, throwing the
deep ball and ripping it and himadmitting that, look, there's highs and

(05:20):
lows of this stuff. I've beenthrough it before, but I'm really learning
to not try to push myself harderwhen I'm going through the lows and understand
what that means, and that meansbe mature about stuff and maybe backing off
and then taking the next few weeksplus and backing off a little bit even
more and try a different path toopening day because the previous paths to opening

(05:44):
day have not exactly gone the wayhe wanted to. That's important, that's
maturity, that's the growth you wantto hear from him. And I think
that you know, he talked abouthis own mortality and coming to terms with
that and not being this invincible playerand he's kind of had to build himself
up to be his own head.All of that stuff is great to me
if you're a fan of the Bengals, to me, if you're a fan
of Joe Burrow, if you're afan of football, it's exactly what you

(06:06):
want to hear. You don't haveanything more left to prove, to try
to show that you're the toughest humanbeing in the world. Go out there
and be healthy and be ready togo play. And that's an off It's
reflective of everything we said last lateJuly, August and September, right,
It's reflective of everything we talked about, like, hey, look, if
if he was feeling discomfort during thatpractice where he went down and got carted

(06:29):
off, then he shouldn't have practiced. And if he pushed it a little
bit too much during August once hewas trying to come back from the CAF
issue, then he should have donethat. And if he should have,
maybe not been on the field forthose first couple of games. Number one,
you feel better about the backup quarterbacksituation. But two, let's take
a long view here and let's notdo something stupid. Yeah, and that's
great, and that's what it hasto be for him. He has his

(06:54):
contract now, he's here, everybody'sin this together, okay. So and
the you know, you're kind ofthinking, how do I write this differently
than I did the first time?And I think it's that, Look,
Joe Burrow is scared of the samethings that you are fan like. Joe
burrow Is has these deep thoughts aboutthe same things that Bengals fans have these

(07:16):
deep thoughts about. It's like,gosh, I just I hope he's not
the one that ends up. Wetalk about injuries being what got in the
way of greatness, of championships,of enjoying his career, and he's openly
admitting to those thoughts, and that'sI think that's that's a lot of maturity
there, and it's and it's goodto see. As far as him on

(07:36):
the field, I mean, Ithink he has done more than enough this
offseason to make everybody comfortable with wherehe should be and expects to become camp
and come in the regular season.And I think if you were sitting here
and you and I were talking aboutthis, I can't imagine we ever touched
on this topic four months ago beforethey ever report, and said, where

(08:01):
do what do you want to besaying about Joe Burrow on June eleventh,
when when Mini camp starts to wrap, You're gonna say that you feel like
you saw everything you wanted to seeout of him, and you feel like
pretty good about where he's gonna beat going into the season. And I
think you can say that. Iremember the day after the injury against Baltimore
that Friday morning. It was coldand gloomy and gray, and I'm trying

(08:22):
to talk myself out of like absoluteworst case scenarios, and we knew he
was done for the season, butI remember thinking, like, there's gonna
be a time next summer where wefeel pretty comfortable with where things are.
And that might not mean that hecould play a game the next day,
but we're going to be comfortable withwhere things are. On June the eleventh,
I feel comfortable with where things are, and it feels like they do

(08:43):
too. Yeah, And you know, Charlie goes with us ask a great
question today, kind of pinpointing,like, look, if you needed to
access one of these, you know, absolutely rip it into a tight window
throws today. Could you do that? It's one hundred percent right, And
he's admitting like he goes through upsand downs with it right now, and
he's still kind of going through allthat stuff. But I think understanding that

(09:03):
he's got that where he needs thatright now, I think is a huge
deal in terms of what your expectationswere of an injury we didn't know about
coming into this portion of the program. So I you know, I think
that it's it's been a pretty solid, productive offseason despite there's just always going
to be hysteria. Sure, youknow, there's just that's what's and wait
till camp comes, right and youget you get the first day off of

(09:26):
camp, and I would prefer toremind everyone remember what happened when he was
feeling a little soreness the second dayof last year's camp. Keep that in
mind keeps perspective, as you wouldsay, maybe just don't even bother showing
up until the opener and everybody bejust fine with it. I think,
yeah, yeah, I would tellJoe, what is that going to be?
The eighth? Sometime of the eighthsounds like a good day? Yeah,

(09:46):
can you can you make sure you'reat the stadium at about ten thirty
in the morning on the eighth.We'll do some some pregame throwing, just
you know, sort of get therust out. Sure, be good to
go here. Yeah, le'd betotally fine with that. I think.
I think you feel that way forshort. All right. He's also not
on the Madden cover. Oh mygod, Really that was gonna be that

(10:07):
was gonna be a big thing todayhad he been on the Madden cover.
Yeah, I'm aware. Yeah,okay, I mean it's great. Are
you disappointed you don't get to writeabout the Madden cover? You think I
was gonna write about that? Idon't know. It's a picture on a
video game and it's great, likecool, Like that's cool? Right,
Yeah, what do you write afterthat's cool? Well, there are some

(10:28):
who believe there's a curse associated withit. That curse has long been disturbed.
There no such things as curses.But I mean, are those who
believe you want me to write tothose people? Not really? Yeah?
No, actually no, I'm notreally sure what I was supposed to say,
right, what does it all mean? Ball? Oh? Today everybody's
tweeting about how he's gonna take pianolessons. There's more substance to that than

(10:50):
him being on the cover of aculturally significant video game. Definitely more interesting.
It's a picture on a video game. Yeah like that. I mean,
Joe Burrow potentially showing up and playingthe piano while everyone takes the field
in the opener is something I couldget behind. Okay, that's good.
I mean, to me, that'sfar more interesting than Hey, there's a

(11:11):
picture with Joe Burrow on it.All right, this was gonna be my
poll question today. What's more interestingthe cover of Madden or Joe Burrow taking
piano lessons? Yeah? Okay,fine, no doubt. I have this
vision of like Burrow like like likesinging Stu's song from The Hangover, playing
a soft piano about singing about tigers. Sure while everyone comes. That's like

(11:33):
how that everybody enters the stadium thisyear I feel like this is obvious.
I feel like today was a badday for piano teachers because he says he's
learning it on YouTube. Yeah,tough scene there, I which is how
I've learned everything I know how todo around my house. Yeah yeah,
it's the ultimate teacher. But there'snothing like that. You go to the

(11:54):
old lady's house and she shows youexactly how to play the piano. You
get that one on one. Let'sstand up for piano teachers everywhere. Don't
let this. Don't let this getyou sidetracked. You want to really learn
how to do it, you gotto get I took industrial arts in college.
No, I'm sorry, in highschool woodshop, metal shop, I
didn't do well in those classes.I didn't pay attention. But watching on

(12:16):
YouTube, I learned how to makea cover for my fire pit, and
I'm like, I'm I can makefurniture on the side. I sent this
to some friends of mine, likeI'm I'm kind of good with a jigsaw,
and I learned how to do thisentire project by watching YouTube. YEA,
So now I feel like maybe industrialarts teachers kind of irrelevant and is

(12:39):
this gonna set off a wave oflike recreational piano playing. Yeah, every
party or get together you get tothere's one person saying, look at me,
I'm Joe Burrow and like just justpounding away at the keys and it
sounds terrible. I could tell youthe two most often used words this summer
when training camp gets started, andthis fall once the season gets underway.

(13:03):
I can tell you what they're goingto be. Okay when we come back.
Wow, it is seventeen minutes afterthree o'clock. He's Paul Danner Junior
on X at Paul Danner Junior coveringthe Bengals for the Athletic and the Growler
podcast, which is available on YouTubeand all the other places where you get
your podcast. It's eighteen after threeo'clock. I'm Oeger. This is ESPN

(13:24):
fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station forthree o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty
on Moeger. Paul Danner Junior ishere. By the way, Full show
Rundown is on X thanks to ourfriends at Emory Federal Credit Union, your
credit union with heart since nineteen thirtynine. Going to Emery FCU dot org,
Read Paul at Theathletic dot com andcatch the podcast multiple times per week,

(13:50):
The Growler Podcast. All Right,here's what you're gonna hear. A
lot of this is going to beEvery Bengals fan in order to sound intelligence,
is going to repeat these two wordsoften over the course of the next
seven months. Are you ready yes? Eye candy eye candy? I can't
I candy yeah. Reference today itwas uh yeah. I think that starts

(14:15):
the conversation of something that we've spenta lot of time talk that I think
is I thought, you know,despite everyone we're all talking about Joe Burrow's
health. Maybe the most interesting thinghe said today was talking about them being
more aggressive in dictating two other teamsdefenses the terms this year offensively, and

(14:37):
that means going out there, havingtheir different versatile pieces and being able to
put them wherever they want and wherethey can't be wrong, and they're going
to have a matchup that they wantno matter where it is. We talked
a lot about that in terms ofthe versatility in the backfield, in terms
of Gisicki, in terms of JermaineBurton being more of an inside outside guy

(14:58):
if he's the guy the other guysthat they had have, but I think
kind of going out there and kindof very much saying it with your chest
as Joe Burrow today, of we'regonna come out and we're not going to
be the ones adjusting to what otherteams are doing to us. I expect
to see a lot of different thingsfrom defenses, but we're gonna tell you
how this game's played because we havethe personnel to do it so many different

(15:20):
ways. We can dictate what youhave to do to us. And I
think that's a significant You know,if there's a a lot of talk this
said about what's the philosophical shift goingto be, well, how is it
going to change schematically? With DanPitcher, I think that has been the
thrust of it has been find moreexplosives, and part of that being we're

(15:41):
not gonna let other teams tell ushow we have to play, because we
got to go find the explosive playsand we're gonna go do it. And
I think if you're a Bengals fanlistening to that, that should make you
pretty excited, more so than maybeanything else you heard. Kind of the
antithesis of what we've heard about theBengals offense for a very long long time,
going back to even the current butbefore the current regime, which was

(16:04):
well, you know, you can'tdo this because the defense is doing this
right, And that frustrates the hellout of me because coach has always love
to talk about how we're going toimpose our will, No one's going to
tell us how to play. Andthen the games begin and it's like,
well, why why couldn't you throwto this guy? Well, you know,
they kind of took him away,yeah, Or why couldn't you why
couldn't you you do this against thisdefense? Well that's kind of designed to

(16:26):
stop this, So we had togo to something else. And so when
Joe was talking today, I tooksome degree of solace and the idea that
we're not going to talk so muchabout those similar themes this fall. Oh.
Granted, it's a lot easier totalk about in June than it is
to actually put forth and put onthe field in September, but still,
yeah, and you just came through. We've the last really couple of years

(16:49):
has been all about these teams refusingto let the Bengals twenty twenty one Bengals
them, You're not going to throwover the top of us, You're not
gonna We're not going to let thisturn into you guys just hitting go balls
all day. And so you getthese you've gotten these two deeps and all
this stuff where it's been left openunderneath. And and they say, oh,
well, they're they're forcing us todo ten eleven twelve play drives.

(17:10):
That's how they're forced us to doit, and we'll go do it.
And that's how it's got to be. And I like saying, look,
the whole league shifted to all ofthese deep shells last year, the whole
everybody's not just the Bengals seeing thisstuff, and a lot of teams were
finding plenty of different ways to generateexplosive plays and to not have to play
that type of you know, teneleven, twelve thirteen play drive. And

(17:33):
so you've got enough out there tosee there's plenty of ways to go do
this. Maybe a little bit ofthat conservative nature. Just because you can
do it doesn't mean that you shouldn'tbe really a little bit more aggressive and
trying to move the ball in otherways. And instead of just sitting back
and saying, well, this iswhat we got to do. Well,
Pike and I would would joke aboutthis all the time. And I think
you and I did two two yearsago early in the season when it was

(17:56):
the Tampa two, and I'm like, you know, this defense has been
around for quite a while. Thisis played by every team in the league.
At some point. We can't solvethat. But it was like a
major talking point early in the seasontwo years ago. Will the Tampa they're
playing Tampa two, They playing covertwo against this, And I'd go,
yeah, cool they are. Soyou're just not gonna throw it deep now.
Yeah, We're just we're just notgonna try. Like I get it.

(18:18):
You can't heave a downfield every play. And so I thought of that.
When I heard Joe talking about thattoday, I thought, Okay,
well we're not if what he saysproves to be true in September, we're
not going to be doing the ohboy, Tampa two. What do we
We can't just can't throw the ballnow because that's what we did two years
ago. Yeah, And I thinka certain bit of that becomes in being

(18:42):
a little more aggressive and utilizing yourother players, your other positions, not
viewing the tight end as a throwawayposition that just gets checkdowns, not viewing
the running back position as something asyou hand off to try to get three
and a half yards. But somethingthat can be more of a weapon to
create explosive plays, you have todo that. It doesn't matter. I
mean, you can put good receiversout there all you want, and that's

(19:03):
great, you have that weapon,but you got to be able to beat
to find other ways to beat thesedefenses. And that's why you love the
idea of Okay, Burrow took asicky over that intermediate middle, you know
where you're trying to guard him with. You're covering him with a five to
nine slot corner, and Burrow's justgonna keep high pointing him and throwing to

(19:27):
the back over the back of hishelmet, And you can do it all
day long, right, And thatshould be a weapon that you have to
combat that stuff or Chase Brown.Heard a lot of good stuff about Chase
Brown this camp, and how goodhe looks running routes out of the backfield,
and how much it's more explosive hecan be. If they can continue
to do some of the things theydid in the screen game last year again,
other ways to keep these defenses thinkingabout other things other than can't let

(19:51):
them throw over the top of usor whatever that can do so many things
to change the way they're playing andcreate new explosives for you. I think
Burrow will be on the cover ofMad nexture. I'll prepare my think piece
on that. Uh yeah, sure, video game guy, maybe maybe you
could get him. Could you getlike a legends mode on the on the
college football games coming back right,and you got all the access to the

(20:12):
current players. Maybe they start bybringing him back. You know, what
was the best offense in college footballhistory? And you get Burrow on the
cover of that for just to easeeverybody in. So when Madden ratings come
out, you're not going to writea big piece on that. I love
Madden Rating Day. Madden Ratining Dayis huge. You know, you know
who takes Madden Rating Day really seriously? Players? Sure, players really don't

(20:36):
like yeah when they feel I understandthat in the Madden ratings. I understand
that if there was a radio talkshow host game. First of all,
what are we doing? But secondly, I would be interested in my rating
there wouldn't be very good, butI'd be interested in what the the video
game makers said about me. Yeah, sure, what somebody says. I
mean, we have ratings and numbersthat we all follow, you do you,

(21:00):
Yes, yeah, they're important.So it's sometimes I wish they weren't,
but yes, yeah, correct,I mean, but it's different when
it's one, one person one gamesis something that you really respect. But
yeah, I'll make sure to getright on there. There is one storyline
that's going to play out during trainingcamp that is more interesting than any other,

(21:22):
and you wrote about it. We'regoing to talk about it next on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station,Sports Headlines and Service at Kelsey Chevrole,
home of lifetime power train protection andguaranteed credit approval from their family the Yours
for a Life kelseyshev dot Com.Red's back at it tonight, first of
two against the Cleveland Guardians. It'sOhio Cup, Paul Man. I've noticed

(21:45):
the tension in the air downtown tonight. You could feel it. You could
really feel it, like the cupson the line. Last year, we
were supposed to take a journey upto them for what was going to be
the determining match if you remember,they lost that game. Yeah, and
so we didn't go. We didn'tgo. Maybe it's our faults. Uh,

(22:08):
You and I have our picture withthe Ohio Cup. We sure did
the current Ohio a legendary moment.Yeah, I mean it's you know,
it's it's like when you see theStanley Cup or any famous trophy, you
know, you just you just can'tbelieve you're kind of in its midst and
it becomes it's sort of its ownthing. So we just when you see
it, you marvel. Yeah.I don't know if it's going to be

(22:29):
on display at the ballpark tonight,but if it is, feel free to
get your photo with it. UH. Starting line up tonight hopefully made well
thanks to our friends at Madewell Restoration, Freedom and Center. Elliott's Short Candelario
is playing third base, Steer atfirst, Frehleian raid Field batting fifth,
Stevenson Herd Abaest Dhing India, WillBenson Brent Suitor is going to be the
first pitcher on the hill tonight forthe Reds, who are going to employ

(22:53):
a bullpen game seven to ten thisevening on seven hundred WLW. What else
do you have? Florence y'awl's takeon Windy City Tonight Bengals Mini Caamp Day
one. Joe Burrow was there,Paul Danner Junior's here. So beyond all
the stuff that people are gonna spenda lot of time on Burrow's return,
which is obviously important. T Higgins, when's he gonna join the fraye Jamar

(23:17):
Chase, who, by the way, is there. I think the single
most interesting summertime NFL storyline is exactlywhat you wrote about, and it applies
to the Bengals, and it appliesto really one of the themes of the
offseason, which is the Bengals haveto be better on special teams, and
they have to do this in thisclimate where now you're dealing with the one
of the biggest unknowns in recent NFLhistory, which is how is this kickoff

(23:40):
rule gonna work? And so youwrote a piece about Darren Simmons who says
he's consumed with thoughts about how howthis is gonna work on top of making
the overall special teams play better.Look, man, I get it.
A lot of the medical stuff andthe new faces and Trent Brown and rookies.
This to me around the league oncegames and practices begin is what I'm

(24:03):
going to be paying attention to mostbecause it's fascinating how teams are gonna do
this. I mean, I couldn'thave been more fascinating seeing like what is
the process? You know? Andthat's kind of where I started with Darren,
Like, tell me what it's likefor in a game that you've done
the same way your entire life.They're like, hey, we've invented a
new way to do something. There'sno technique, there's no like, there's

(24:23):
no model, there's no template forwhat this is supposed to look like.
You guys make it up as yougo, but here's the rules of where
it has to start, you know. And you're just seeing so much tinkering,
so many different brainstorming sessions. Peopleare what you know. He talked
about calling people that he knew thatdid special teams with the XFL, which
was a similar version of the rule, although there are some fundamental differences in

(24:47):
this one, and then trying itout and realizing that didn't go I thought
it was gonna go, and thenhaving to do and you're doing all of
this in an off season where you'renot allowed to touch anybody. Really,
you're not going to do any ofthe stuff that you can do to really
test it out, and then you'regonna have to get into training camp and
continue to test it out and inpreseason games and test out all kinds of
stuff and hope there's gonna be anadvantage for somebody. You're talking like sixteen

(25:12):
hundred potential plays where there's gonna bea lot of teams that are able to
take that. I mean, howmany touchdowns? Is that gonna mean a
lot? You're talking about plays whereone breakthrough into daylight and it's and you're
housing it because everybody's there along thatsame line. Whoever can get in front
of the trend and whoever can handlethis the best. You know, there's

(25:36):
a massive swing. We always woulddo win probability differences in games where your
team either lets up or returns anykind of a kick. It is massive.
It's like a twenty five percent swing. Anytime it happens. There's a
possibility that that could be the gamechanger in a ton of games, specifically
early in this season, if somebodycan figure this out or has the right

(25:59):
personnel to do so. And everybody'sgoing through trial and air themselves, trying
trying to get a feel for itand working with different ways. We saw
Evan McPherson was trying this like sidekicktoday. So the ball was kind of
like laying on its side, almostlike you would think an on sidekick,
but you're kicking it with enough heightto get it to the landing zone between

(26:19):
the twenty and the zero, soit hits spinning and it's kind of a
line drive because you know, you'llcare about the hangtime because your guys are
already kind of down there. Youwant to get it to a point where
it's really hard to handle. Theball is live. It doesn't go into
the end zone untouched and all ofa sudden like that's touch back. No,
that's a live ball that can alwaysbe recovered. So you know,

(26:41):
I think you're gonna see more stufflike that. I just you know,
there's a lot of trial and airhappening right now and something that they need
to try to Like everybody wants totry to say that they're ahead of the
curve of come. You know,early September you reference on the piece that
Darren reached out to people who hadworked in the XFL where they view us
a version of this as a generalrule, What did the average kickoff look

(27:04):
like in the XFL? Not alot. I mean, it kind of
was a little blot like you.I think there's a thought that guys are
just gonna be breaking free for touchdownsall the time, and it just kind
of it would look like somebody kindof runs up, tries to get through,
can't and just there's too many peoplecloistered into a smaller right space.
But I also think that there's alsolook NFL athletes change that a little bit.

(27:29):
I mean, you know, Ilook at somebody like Chase Brown and
so he's built for this. Imean the twenty two mile prower speed on
the screen last year right at home, and the ability to find that one
little hole and then run away fromthe traffic is something that would seem to
fit this trying or you Darren wassaying, But also why don't know that

(27:55):
maybe it is like a run play. But also there's a lot of elements
to u pun return here where yougot to be able to have the wiggle
to make the first guy miss becauseeverybody is converging at you from all angles,
right, So if there's a there'sa there's a punt return element to
it too. So will that workbetter? Is that you know, I
have my theories and I'm kind oftrying to work them all out, but
nobody, Yeah, nobody really knows. This is a blank sligh how it's

(28:18):
gonna actually play. I think whatI think will happen is you'll have by
week six, I think everybody willbe doing the same stuff. Sure,
but that first five weeks you're gonnasee all kinds of teams trying out their
ideas and seeing what and it reallyit really puts the the joint practices around
the league. It puts a premiumon them because this is the first time

(28:38):
you're really gonna be able to executestuff, and you know, and his
point was, that's true, hesaid, but you know, once we
get into camp, once once campshappen, they can do that stuff in
practice. The joy practices give achance for you know, a little bit
more true trying out new stuff withouteverybody seeing like you would have. And
you'd be more likely to do thatin a joint practice in a preseason game,

(29:00):
so to speak, because there's maybethere's something that you don't want people
to see that you're gonna try orwhatever. But yeah, I think there's
all those proving grounds are going tobe really critical, he said. They
are gonna they're going to add asyou might imagine, add more sessions of
that than they've ever had of practicingkickoff and kickoff return just because of the

(29:21):
nature of so many people trying todo it. He's like, and oh,
by the way, I'm still outhere trying to get our regular units
to be better and because that wasn'twhere they wanted it to be last year
or two, and so, youknow, I talked to Evan McPherson a
little bit for that and he waslike, I'm not doing any tackling drills
anytime, Like, I'm not goingto see me out here, and I

(29:41):
think it's like, yeah, youmight have to be a little bit more
involved. He's mentioned that they didhave like a little bit of a kicking
tryout for guys that want to seewhat they have. He's like, because
you know, the thing is,a lot was made of Dave Tube in
Kansas City talking about Justin Reed potentiallydoing that because there's more involvement for that
player in tackling as these safety valveSo why not have a safety back there

(30:02):
who's a little more comfortable with that. His point was that's fine, and
if you have a guy who cando that, that's good. He's like,
But for me, I think it'sthe precision of where the kicklands is
gonna be the most important part ofthis thing not beating you, because the
advantage right now is with the returnteam the way it's currently set up.
But if you can have the precisionof landing it outside the numbers between the

(30:26):
five and the goal line consistently andwhatever, you know, whatever that kick
is for your kicker, that isreally what sets you up to be able
to bring this thing down pretty easily, or that you hope easily. But
if you can't do that, youstart going out of bounds or not missing
the landing zone it comes out tothe thirty or forty and all that other

(30:48):
stuff, then you get yourself intoall kinds of trouble. I can't wait
for the first time that a teamlines up for a kickoff in the Hall
of Fame game, because you coverthis league for a living. I followed
it. I follow it pretty obsessively. But there are people who are not
following the ins and outs of rulechanges and what happens with the league office.

(31:11):
That first game is going to comeon, teams are going to line
up for a kickoff, and peopleare going to wonder what the hell they're
watching? The hell is going on? Yeah, and I think players are
going to wonder that too as theygo through it. You know, Like
what was I doing out there?You know? I said? When the
games it's different than you were inpractice, Like, yeah, I don't.
You're not relying on some basic thingthat you've done your whole life.

(31:33):
You're trying to kind of re relearnit. I thought the you know,
trying to figure out what type ofplayers should be on this, and him
pointing out that I he thinks whereit will land is that the point of
attack is going to be very muchlike a run play, Like your middle
sections need to have your big guysthat can hold the line and hold that

(31:56):
He's like, but who's going tobe the first team to put the little
guys in there across from the bigguys, knowing that they can jet around
them and get a free shot topotentially, you know, knock somebody down
at the ten yard line or whatever. It's like that you know you're gonna
see. You could seriously sit thereand be like, Okay, here's our
mathive, where are they at?You guys? Switch put that guy on
that guy knew because you have allthese individual one on one matchups that are

(32:21):
part of you gotta set all ofIt's like when you set the Ryder Cup
card, right, like, whoare you gonna go against? I don't
know what are they gonna do?I don't know why who's gonna be across
me? I'm gonna put that guyin the eighth slot. I think it's
gonna be this guy, and Ijust think you end up in You know,
it's a lot, maybe a lotof mind games for not a lot,
or maybe it is. Maybe itis what we end up talking the
most about through the first month ortwo of this season. I think we

(32:44):
will. I think we will too. I think it's gonna I think it's
gonna absolutely affect the outcome of aton of games, and inevitably we'll look
back in January and say the inabilityto get it figured out or be ahead
of the curve was a reason whythis team is in the playoffs and that
team isn't. Yeah, I mean, I can't think. I can't think
of anything like this. You know, we've we've added, you know,

(33:05):
thirty years ago, the two pointconversion. We've changed the rules, we've
changed how kickoffs work. We've movedwhere the ball gets kicked from. We've
moved the the yard line that youget if if you have a touchback.
We've never done that. I canrecall anything like this in the sport where
you are giving coaches and teams ablank canvas on which to come up with

(33:27):
stuff. Now, it's it doesn'tresemble anything the games ever done. It's
one of the coolest training camp earlyseason storylines that I could ever remember.
Yeah, and I and I lovethe idea. You know, you've You've
made the preseason interesting to me becausewatching teams around the league figure this out
on the fly, to me atleast, is going to be fascinating.
Yeah. I mean I probably talkedto Darren for a half hour about it,

(33:52):
and I feel like we could havetalked for another hour and a half
because I was like, wait,what about this? Yeah? I was
like, wait, can can youdrop kick? That could drop He's like
whoa, whoa, Well cal himdown. He's like, you're trying to
run. I'm trying to jog here. Just try to you know, there's
there's any number of things because that'sjust what's going to happen, right,
Someone's going to have an idea.Someone's going to take it from there and
it's going to go to a crazyplace and it's just a matter of being

(34:14):
ready when it happens. All right, Two more items to hit on when
we come back. Ten away fromfour o'clock. Paul Danner Junior from The
Athletic and the Growler podcast on ESPNfifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. Whether
it's after a workout, it's fiveaway from four o'clock. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty. Another few minutes.Do we have to talk about Jamar Chase
being a can today? Any anythingthere you'd like to? He didn't want

(34:36):
to. He didn't want to talkto us, which I totally understand.
Trent Brown was there. That wasnice of them to show up. It's
not helping himself. Why hasn't hebeen around? This is what the Bengals
signed. This is how you getsomebody who's a really who had the numbers
that he did. Yeah okay,yeah, left and right side said all
the right things, and and thatthat's how you get that guy for four
million dollars for one year. Becausethis is the stuff that has followed him

(35:00):
his career. Where was he playingtoday, I was watching a lot.
He was playing right tackle some therewas one play with Trent Brown at right
tackle Anna Marius Mems next to himat the move and which I thoroughly enjoyed.
Justice for the visual. What arewe going to call that package that
they employed it? I guess arewe going with the Cincinnati skyline? I

(35:22):
don't know that was the that wasthe thing with the three, but I
think it was a new Okay,there was a new name. I told
I said for a while when itwas just the Browns. I liked Browncers
as the nickname that you know,Mark and I had come up with that,
and we were really excited about it. And then they added Memes and
that I have. We haven't founda great way to add him into that.

(35:43):
But and that's fine if they gowith the skyline. But I just
feel like, I don't know,big dudes on the right, is that
too too wordy? A little bit? Yeah, Okay, you need to
be able to make an acronym,if you do multiple an acronym that spells
out Bengals. Okay, come upwith that. Okay, I work on
that. We're getting to the pointduring the offseason where there's not a lot

(36:04):
of hard news which unfortunately this cameout today, the Joey Chestnut story.
No, he has been banned.He's not going to compete in the fourth
of July Major League Eating hot Dogeating contest because he's representing another hot dog
brand. Yeah, big, Big, I don't understand the allure of competitive
eating. Yeah, I don't understandwatching it. I don't understand people who

(36:27):
could boast of being able to doit. I've had folks say to me,
I could eat sixteen Skyline cheese cony. He's more than you like.
Yeah, awesome, awesome. Ito do that. I could eat four
and I'm fine. I'm good.I just need to be. I would
say what I'm here for. JoeyChestnut v. Kobayashi right down the street

(36:50):
side hustle game, right like,everyone's gathered whatever, whatever the closest is.
They can get to the Nathans withoutbeing considered part of it. Is
this beside show live in the PGATour. This is what everyone's wanted since
since Kobe Yashi got booted anyway orwhatever happened to him, to find everyone
everyone that likes competitive Your friend hasn'tbeen banned, You've seen the crowds down

(37:17):
there. Oh yeah, I getit. Those people. There are certain
things that a lot of folks areinto that I I just I don't get.
I just want to watching Watching thehighlights of that makes me sick to
my stomach. Watching people gorge themselveslike that doesn't make me feel hungry.
It makes me feel like I wantto throw up. It did make far

(37:39):
the greatest like graphic on the socialwhich was the Joey Chestnut band graphic band
really big and it's a picture ofhim like looking like he's about to throw
up with like three hot dogs hangingout of his mouth, and I'm like,
that's that's really the perfect photo toaccompany someone being banned from anything.

(38:00):
It is you've never been banned fromanything before? Not yet, not yet.
I've banned myself from hot dog eatingcontest. There was one of those
at Octoberfest one year. Joey Chestnutwas there, Nick Lache was eating hot
dogs and I'm like, all right, I'll check this out, And after
like three minutes, I'm like,this is gross. Yeah, I'm done,
I'm out. I don't understand theallure of competitive eating. So you've

(38:21):
never you've never been invited to takepart in such a contest, and I
would say no. If I was, yeah, I would hope. So
yeah, all right, thank youas always. Yeah, pleasure Get Paul's
coverage of Mini Camp at Theathletic dotcom and catch the podcast The Growler where
you get your podcasts. Follow himon x at Paul Danner Junior four o'clock
on ESPN In fifteen thirty Sports Up, I'm Christine Lyci. The status of

(38:50):
Celtic center Christops porzingis uncertain. Gamethree NBA Finals tomorrow against the Mavericks seven
thirty Eastern, ESPN Radio and ABC. Porzingis suffered a rare injury to his
left leg in Game two and isconsidered day to day. Coach Joe Missoula
being told is it's obviously something serious, but it's something that has the potential
to play. Z th everything youcan between now and game time to play.
But we're gonna make sure we puthim in the best possible situation.

(39:13):
Our medical team, we'll protect him, and you know, because this time
of year, it can be verytempting to put yourself in a compromising situation.
And so he's gonna try like hellto play. But we got us
back Joe Missoula on the NBA onESPN Radio. Quarterback Aaron Rodgers and Ed
rusher Hassan Raddick not a Jets mandatorymini camp. Both unexcused absences. Coach
Robert solid told reporters Rogers absence isrelated to an event that's very important to

(39:36):
him. Reddicks is contract related.USA Basketball says a lack of national team
experience a big reason Caitlin Clark wasn'ton the US women's Olympic roster. On
Veiled Today, Billy's catcher JT Realmuto, we'll undergo right knee surgery tomorrow.
No timeline yet for his return.Helly you, it's your residence. Super
Bowl champ Chris Kenny coming on Wednesday. I'll tell you why Kyrie Ever needs

(39:58):
to be the best player on Nicoleif the Mas want to get back into
this series. It's on sports forlike six am Eastern right here quote ESPN
Radio, ESPN two in ESPNU It'ssponsored by eighteen thirty. What's up afternoon
out my legger. This is ESPNfifteen thirty. Thank you for listening.

(40:21):
Awesome stuff from Paul Tamner, JuniorJoe Burrow. We're gonna play some Joe
Burrow audio in just about fifteen minutes. We're looking forward to that. Also,
we're giving away we're giving away ticketsto go see the Coral Reefer Band.
Now that may sound familiar to you, maybe it doesn't. It's basically
Jimmy Buffett's band. Jimmy Buffett diedlast year. It's a tribute to Jimmy

(40:45):
Buffett featuring the Coral Reefer Band.And it's gonna be at River Bend in
early August. And we have ticketsto give away. We have two pair.
We have tickets at four thirty threeand five thirty three. We have
two different We're not playing Guess thefoot. We're either going to test your
knowledge of Madden covers or test yourknowledge of the Ohio Cup. No,

(41:07):
no, no, no, no, clarify, not Madden covers, just
the history of Madden in general.All right. The questions I wrote were
Madden covers. No, I gotthe questions and it's just the history of
Madden, all right. So we'redoing the history of Madden. Yes,
you got to No, it couldbe about the covers, it could be
about the game itself, all aboutMadden all right, well these are your
questions then yes, all right,well I got Madden covers. We could

(41:28):
do Madden covers tomorrow. Yeah,okay, good, fine, then half
my work is done. All right, So we're testing your knowledge of Madden
or of the Ohio Cup. We'lldo a contestant's choice coming up in just
about twenty minutes if you want togo see a tribute to Jimmy Buffett featuring
the Coral Reefer Band, which isgonna be at Riverband. I think only

(41:49):
three US dates for this show,August fourth, at Riverband. That coming
up in just a bit. Moreon the Bengals here in just a few
we'll actually play some of the JoeBurrow for you. He was at Minichamp
today. He was going through workouts, and I thought some of the stuff
that he had to say was worthtalking about. So we'll get to that
here in just a bit. Red'sGuardians Tonight it is the Ohio Cup.

(42:14):
It's a big week for the Reds. They play a good, good Cleveland
team two games starting tonight and thenMilwaukee this weekend. I talked about this
a little bit yesterday. I amone might say unreasonably, one might say
unreasonably optimistic about the Reds right now. And look, I understand the hesitancy

(42:38):
to be optimistic because their record's notgreat, because it's a franchise that doesn't
have that much of a track record, and in the division they've got a
pretty steep deficit to make up.The good news is it is still early
ish. Six and a half backMilwaukee is they're scoring a bunch of runs.
By the way, for what it'sworth, the Milwaukee Brewers who have

(43:01):
a big lead against everybody in theNational League Central, six and a half
over everybody. The Brewers open upa series against the Toronto Blue Jays tonight
and I said it was six anda half. It's actually been extended to
seven because they won last night.Milwaukee did so seven games over the Cubs
and Cardinals in seven and a halfover Pittsburgh, and they deserve a lot

(43:23):
of credit. Day of change managersPat Murphy took over for Craig Council who
went to Chicago, and Brewers fansare but hurt about that they traded away
Corbyn Burns, which I did notunderstand. Brandon Woodriff went on the injured
list before the season started. WadeMiley has gone on the inter list.
Since the season has begun, theyhave watched some of their better hitters have

(43:43):
ups and downs, and yet theyare clearly setting the pace in the National
League Central. I believe their startingpitching is a house of cards. That
doesn't mean that they're not going towin the National League Central. That doesn't
mean they're not gonna make the playoffs. That doesn't mean that they're not gonna
beat the Reds this weekend. ButI feel better about the Reds pitching than

(44:08):
I do Milwaukee's now the buffer thereis seven games. I also feel better
about the Reds getting toelve Marte back. Now. I'll be honest with you,
I am very skeptical about his assertionthat he has no idea why his
positive test was positive for peds.I don't know. I don't believe that

(44:30):
that strange credibility. I also gottaadmit to you, I don't care.
He has served the punishment. Theimpact is irreversible. He's gonna have to
deal with it. He's he's gonnahave to deal with the fallout from it
in terms of his reputation, interms of his relationship with his teammates,
which I don't think is going tobe that badly damaged. I don't need

(44:52):
an explanation. I don't need anapology. It happened, he got punished,
We move on. Hopefully he rejoinsthe team, does nothing to get
suspended again, whether it's something hedoes intentionally or accidentally, and he ends
up being very productive. I don'tneed an apology. I don't need an

(45:14):
I don't need I don't need himto even address what happened. But since
he did do, I believe thathe is completely innocent here and that he
has no idea why he tested positive. No, I'm sorry. I just
professional athletes who by nature are veryvery careful about what they put in their
body, or at least they shouldbe. Uh, I have no idea

(45:37):
how they tested positive for this bandsubstance. I just I'm sorry. I
don't believe him, but that's okay. He said what he said. I
have my opinions on it. I'mmore concerned about him coming back and playing.
And look, the Reds have spentthe entire year playing long stretches of
time without guys that we thought weregoing to be key. DJ FRIEDLM missed

(45:59):
a lot of time. Christian andkarnassion Strand has missed a lot of time.
I'm not sure how much we factoredin Brandon Williamson being a big part
of this team. He's missed theentire season. Nick Lodolo had to go
on the injury list. Matt McClainhasn't played this year. Christian and karnasion
Strand. When does he come back? I have no idea. Matt McClain,

(46:20):
does he come back? I haveno idea. Noelve Marte, who
has started his rehab assignment or isstarting it now at Louisville. I know
when he comes back. I knowhow many games the Reds are going to
have remaining. I mean, Iknow how many games in the regular season
because he is going to be ineligiblefor playoffs if the Reds make it.
I know how many games in theregular season he can have an impact.

(46:43):
And this is a little bit different. I put more stock in Marte coming
back than some of the other guysbecause it's not like there is going to
be a setback based on an existinginjury like we've seen it with Christian and
karnasi on Strand. His medical peoplehave told him to dial things back a
little bit. We did it witha TJ. Friedel, where he had

(47:05):
to dial it back a little bitwhen he was coming back from his original
wrist injury. You hear this allthe time. We're dealing with it with
Joe Burrow, right, Hey,he's got to dial it back. I
think sometimes the word setback gets useda little bit too much, But with
injuries, there's always until the playercomes back, a slight fear that,
Okay, it's gonna be a recurringthing. He's going to experience discomfort,

(47:25):
pain that could slowest progress, maybedelay his return. Perhaps there's an issue
that pops up during the rehab assignment, which has happened with Brandon Williamson,
and it's happened with other guys.With noelfe Marte, any injury is going
to be something new. He goesinto his rehab assignment completely healthy, and
so the Reds are gonna get ahealthy, fresh, I would like to

(47:47):
think motivated player here in a coupleof weeks, right as we get to
the midway point of the season,and not only are they getting a fresh
and healthy and I think motivated player, they're getting a dude who last season
raaked like you know, he gotcaught up and he got caught up during

(48:10):
a time where some were maybe startingto doubt whether the Reds could really hang
in the race. The guy hittin his last sixteen games. He did
nothing but hit. He did nothingbut hit. He looked as big league
ready to just hit, to standin the batters box and hit. Looked
as big league ready as legitimately anytwenty one year old player I have ever

(48:32):
seen. He did not look likea guy in his rookie season. He
did not look like a guy whowas making his major league debut. He
had good, quality, mature atbats. He looked like he had a
plan, looked like he knew howto make adjustments. And so, based
on what I saw, We've watcheda lot of these other guys, Ellie
Dela Cruz, most notably Spencer Steer, We've watched it with Cees. We've

(48:55):
seen so many of these young guyskind of experience. That's what it's like
when the league catches up to himand then have a hard time making the
adjustment to the adjustment. I worryless about that with Noelve Marte, based
on what I watched last year,of all the dudes the Reds have brought
up to the big leagues or acquiredfrom the outside, had spent some time

(49:17):
in their farm system, and thenshow up in Cincinnati. The one who
just looked like not that he hadthe highest ceiling or the most raw natural
talent, but the guy who justlooked like a big leaguer from almost the
get go was noelve Marte. SoI get that player back, and as
he nears his return, it's notlike he's coming back from an injury.

(49:40):
Christian at Carnassi on strand at somepoint is gonna go on a rehab assignment
and we're gonna be wondering about hishand. Is it gonna bother him more?
Is pain gonna pop up? Ishe dealing with discomfort? Matt McClain,
maybe the same thing. Brandon Williamsonalready the same thing. It's not
unlike again, Joe Burrow. Westill wonder is he dealing with discomfort?
Is he dealing with with some painnow? If so, in early June,

(50:01):
that's okay. With noelve Marte,I get none of that. I
get a dude who shows up onthe team healthy. I wish he was
here for the first eighty games.And again I do not believe him for
a second when he's talking about howI have no idea why I tested positive,
but I'm excited about what he canbring to the table and they could

(50:22):
really really use him. This teamis going to be entering the second half
of the season, and they're gonnaget Noelve Marte back at precisely the right
time. And my guess is bythen the Milwaukee Brewers House of Cards pitching
staff will have started to crumble atleast a little bit. Seventeen minutes after
four o'clock, Your thoughts are alwayswelcome on this show. Five one,

(50:44):
three, seven, four nine fifteenthirty and eight six six, seven oh
two three seven seven six. Howyou can get in. Uh, we're
gonna give away our Coral Reefer bandtickets coming up in just about fifteen minutes,
and Brendanman and Jones on Baseball iscoming up as well. But first,
Joe Burrow spoke today. You'll hearhim next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati

(51:06):
Sports Station twenty four after four o'clock. I'm a leger. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty. You can send atweet to me anytime. Thanks to our
friends at Delta Dental, you couldsend a tweet really without any help.
But our Twitter feed is a serviceof Delta Dental, which is building healthy
and smart and vibrant communities for augthe Delta Dentaloh dot com do it.

(51:32):
Uh, let's see. Joe Burrowspoke, this is important, man,
and it's it's worth keeping in mindduring mini camp. It was worth keeping
in mind last week. It's gonnabe worth keeping in mind as training camp
starts, it's gonna be worth keepingin mind as the preseason unfolds. Joe
Burrow talking about well, not pushinghimself anymore and perhaps using some lessons learned

(51:59):
less when he dealt with that caffingrygo ahead and play that. It's to
help you, you know, mentallyfeel like maybe something I should you feel
and being able to all we getthrough. A train can have injury.
Obviously you can't control it, butjust from a mental standplance that that's kind
of worked through. It's definitely somethingI've thought about. Yeah, you know,

(52:20):
whenever the injuries start to stack up, it's your football mortality kind of
comes into the back of your mind. So that's definitely something that I've thought
about and something that I've had tofight through. That's that's every injury that
happens, you know, they theystack and you know you continue to think

(52:40):
about how you can get better fromthose and how you can come back and
improved player when maybe you're not gettingthe reps that you had because of your
injury. So it's always a challenge, it always is, But you know,
I'm built for it, Our teamis built for it, and the
people that I have surrounded myself withhave been through it with me as well.

(53:01):
So I'm excited about the season.I'm excited about what we're gonna do,
and I'm excited about all the guyswe have in the locker room.
Does that help off season? Maybethe next six weeks taking different from the
past sessions for tween other TVs andtraining camp. Yeah, I'm I'm definitely
gonna not quite grind as much forthis next month and a half. You

(53:24):
know, my my off season hasbeen about ten weeks longer than everybody else's,
so I've had ten weeks of workthat everybody else hasn't. So I
feel really good about where I'm gonnabe at come training camp. Familiarity with
dealing with the off season injuries thelast few years do you feel that though
that it hardens you and it helpsyou along the way in regular season.

(53:45):
Does in adversity mentally, yeah,you know, you definitely whenever you fight
through adversity and come out on theother side, it definitely gives you a
feeling of invincibility at times. Butobviously you know that that is not the

(54:07):
case, and so it's always abalancing act. And that's what this off
season has been about for me.It's not pushing through some things that I've
pushed through in the past. Youknow, I've always prided myself on my
mental toughness to be able to pushthrough pain and push through those injuries,

(54:30):
and so that's kind of been mygrowth this offseason is taking a step back
and understanding my value to the organization, into the team, and the value
of the work that I've put infor the last ten years and relying on
that as opposed to relying on mywork weekend and week out day to day

(54:52):
directly. As you know, rollback the calf in the beginning of last
year, how much you thought aboutwhat you worked play over the last few
months, is that's how they didtop of mine? May building back what
would you maybe done to Yeah,I definitely definitely thought about that. I
don't think I quite handled it theright way. I definitely would have taken

(55:12):
some more time, and so that'skind of been you know. I would
say the calf was the catalyst forthat change you Jack said with te either
way you had with Mrs Yeah,I mean you're always talking. I've seen
t several times this offseason. Helooks great. You know when whenever he's
ready to come back, I'll beexcited to see him. Uh. Good
stuff from Joe Burrow. There there'sI guess two thoughts. Number one,

(55:36):
Hey, he used a term thatI think applies to the entire offseason for
this team balancing act. So we'vewatched the Bengals over the last couple of
years fall flat on their face.Joe's lack of ideal health has been the
number one reason why. Right likeBurrow against the Steelers turned the ball over

(55:57):
five times. I'm willing to betyou my house that never happens again as
long as he's healthy. Burrow lastyear looked like a dude who had never
played football before against the Browns,the team itself the last couple of years,
I think more so last year thanthe previous year. But it's the
team itself over the last couple ofyears looked unprepared for those games to start

(56:19):
the season. Now, the responseto saying that is, well, they
didn't go through preseason the way maybethey should have if they prioritized starting the
season off strong, and maybe thingswere a little bit too lax, and
maybe things were just a little bittoo casual, things that I agree with.
By the way, those are assertionsthat I agree with. And so

(56:42):
my take last September, and maybeto a lesser degree the previous September,
was can we strike a balancing actbetween ensuring everybody's health to the extent that
you can and being more prepared toplay and win early in the season.
That applies to Joe Burrow, itapplies to the entire team. Go watch

(57:04):
that game against the Browns week onelast year. That football team looked woefully
unprepared. I'm a Zach Taylor guy. I think he's a good coach.
That football team. Does it getmasked if Burrow is himself? Of course
it does. Do they still losethe game of Burrow is himself? I'm
gonna guess they do, because theteam itself looked unprepared. So Joe's got

(57:27):
to strike a balancing act. TheBengals have to strike a balancing act.
Let's do everything we can. Let'sbe smart, let's do everything we can
to best ensure good health. Butalso let's be ready to go week one
and hit the ground running. Ialso think there's something extraordinarily mature. I've
said this about young Reds players.Let them gain experience, positive and negative,

(57:53):
and then let them learn from thatexperience and apply it to what's next.
That's exactly what Joe Burrow says he'sdoing. The experience in the past
has been I pushed through. Igun it. I'm a grinder, I'm
working no days off. Well,what happened last year, it cost the

(58:15):
team, it cost Joe this year. Hey, you know what went through
the calf thing. I'm gonna besmarter. I'm gonna take the long view.
I'm going to prioritize my health.I'll strike a balancing act. That's
really mature. That's the benefit ofexperience. You could apply that to young

(58:36):
Bengals players. You can apply itobviously to Joe Burrow. You could apply
it to young Reds players. Youcould apply it to life, gain experience,
Learn from the positives, learn fromthe negatives, apply it to what's
next. So for Joe, look, man, one thing matters more than
anything else with this franchise. Youand I both know it. Joe Burrow's

(58:58):
health and availability. I'm willing toprioritize that above all. I'm okay if
he never plays in the preseason.I'm okay if he takes days off.
Give me a fully healthy Joe weekone, who's got maybe a little football
rust, as opposed to the dudewho's perhaps a little physically compromised because he

(59:19):
did more than he should. Itis thing number one that matters. It's
things number one, two, three, four, and five that matter most
for this franchise. His health andavailability needs to be prioritized more than anything
else. That's not being soft,it's being smart. Joe Burrow sounded like
a very smart guy right there,twenty seven away from five o'clock. If

(59:45):
you love Jimmy Buffett, look,you're not gonna you're not gonna get a
chance to go see Jimmy Buffett anymorebecause he passed last year. But his
band is playing a tribute concert Augustfourth at River Bend it's still gonna be
a blast. You can still wearyour grass skirt. You could still talk
to younger people about how Jimmy cameto Riverband five consecutive nights in nineteen ninety.

(01:00:05):
You could still hear Cheeseburger in Paradise. If you want to go Margueriteville,
you could still hear the Big Eightthat he plays every show except Jimmy's
unfortunately no longer with us. Youcan go watch this show at Riverbend on
us. We're gonna make you playa game. We're gonna give you a
choice. Five one three seven fournine fifteen thirty. Do you want us
to test your knowledge of the Maddenvideo game franchise? Or do you want

(01:00:30):
us to test your knowledge of theOhio Cup, the Shared History of the
Reds and the now Cleveland Guardians.We're looking for contestants. If you want
to go see the Coral Reefer BandAugust fourth at Riverbend, only three shows
in the US. Five one threeseven four nine, fifteen thirty. That's
a five to one three seven fournine fifteen thirty. If you want to

(01:00:52):
go to this show, if youwant to play a game, we'd love
to hear from you five, one, three, seven, four, nine,
fifteen thirty Brenniman and Jones on baseballComing Up. Sports Headlines two on
ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station, ESPN fifteen thirty. All right,
so the Coral Reefer Band tribute toJimmy Buffett. I guess it's like his

(01:01:15):
band. I don't know who's goingto be playing the part of Jimmy Buffett,
but you know you can find thatout if you go to the show.
Get tickets now a Ticketmaster dot.We have a like a billion tickets
to this show to give away thisweek. And I'm only here today and
tomorrow, and yesterday I sounded likeI was catatonic, So we didn't do

(01:01:37):
a giveaway. Before we give awaythe tickets and play a stupid little game.
Here, a couple of things reallyquick local sports headlines. The service
of Kelsey Chevrolet, Reds and Guardianstonight at gabb It's the Ohio Cup.
You can feel the tension in theair. The Ohio Cup up for grabs.
Reds and Guardians tonight. Starting alineup for the Reds thanks to our

(01:02:00):
at Madewell Restoration, Greater Cincinnati's roofingand exterior restoration experts go to Madwell Restoration
dot com. Brent Souter is startingfor Cincinnati tonight. It's a bullpen game.
Red's won two of those against theDodgers earlier this year. Seven ten
is tonight's first pitch. Freedom andcenter Elliott short, Jamer Jamers a cool

(01:02:22):
name, third base batting third,Spencer Steart first, Freelian Wright Stevenson is
catching her. Debes is a dhingand batting seventh. Jonathan Indy is playing
second base and Will Benson in leftfieldbats Ninth. Noelle Marte is said to
begin his rehab stint at Triple A. Louisville, Florence Yawl's taking on Windy

(01:02:42):
City tonight and Bengals. Day oneof Mini caamp underway today in the indoor
practice facility next to what used tobe called Paul Brown Stadium. Joe Burrow
was a participant today. So thereyou go, all right, So Tarn,
because we've done this often during thebaseball season, we tie it into
what the Reds are doing. Wehave your choice, dealer's choice. We've

(01:03:05):
got the Ohio Cup. We couldtest your knowledge of the Ohio Cup,
or we could test your working knowledgeof the Madden video game franchise. It
was announced today that Christian McCaffrey ofthe forty nine Ers is going to be
on the cover. So no,it's it's not Joe Burrow, Tarren.
Who do we have playing today?Oh? We have Andy? Contest number
one contest? The number one isAndy? Hi? Andy? How you

(01:03:25):
doing we? How are you?Man? I've never been better than who
else? Do we have? Taran? We have George? All right,
George, George, you got meGeorgia with us? Hi? George?
Hey, mel Beer? All right? Very good? Uh you sound enthusiastic.
All right, So Tarn, weare We're gonna How are we gonna
do this? You're the producer ofthe show. I'm just basically a puppet.
So what do we do here?Well, we're gonna call it in

(01:03:46):
the air like we always do.Who's gonna call it in the air.
We're gonna have Andy call it?And before before you call it, Andy,
Okay, you're gonna have a choice. You get to either say you
want to play or do nothing,or you can choose which game you want
to play, Man or Ohio Cup? Wow? Very good? Andy?
Did all that makes sense? Alittle bit? I will my strength call

(01:04:09):
it in the air first, Andy, and you gotta heads. You gotta
flip through what happened to them?Oh wow, holy crap, that hit
the ceiling. All right, Taren, what do we have? We have
a hits, We have a heads, all right? So what does Andy
do now? Andy said he wantedto do nothing. Andy says he wants
to do nothing. So does Georgepick what we do? Ohio cupp Madden?

(01:04:30):
Correct? All right, George,Ohio cup or Madden? Well no,
sometimes your questions are pretty hard.Was it gonna be? This?
Is it gonna be easier? Hard? Ones? You know? I've got
seven of them. I've got sevenof them, and I think they're easy
ish. All right, let's go. I know a lot about the Madden
game. Let's go to the Maddencover. All right. These are all
Terran. Arran came up with allthese. It's not a cover. It's

(01:04:54):
just mad video just a Madden videogame. I wrote down questions for the
Madden cover. But we're gonna dothat, I guess maybe tomorrow. So
these are about just the Madden videogame itself. This is not my wheelhouse.
So Tarryn, you want me togo like across the drink at a
sandwich or something. No, okay, very good. What is my role
here? Since these are your questions? I mean I'll guess you just keep

(01:05:15):
me on time. Then okay,I'll trust do what I can to keep
you on time. Very good?Go ahead, all right, Andy?
First question, when was the firstMadden game created? Was it A nineteen
eighty nine, B nineteen ninety two, C nineteen ninety four or D nineteen
ninety six? Four choices? Wow, man, let's go with I think

(01:05:42):
it was ninety ninety six. Yousaid ninety six. Yeah? No,
oh, first Madden game four eightynine, eighty nine. The first game
was in eighty nine eight video gamelike John Madden was on the cover like

(01:06:04):
the first ten years, right?Correct? All right? So we're doing
best of five? Yeah, Ionly have five? All right? So
George is uh over one? Allright? Go ahead? Question number two?
Who was the first quarterback to appearon the Madden cover? Was it
A Michael Vick, B. DanteColepepper, C Peyton Manny D Tom Brady?

(01:06:30):
So, based on the time period, I think it's got to be
called Pepper. Correct. Oh,guys, how about that's two thousand and
two. Man, all right,awesome, awesome, awesome, So one
for two here, yes, verygood. Question number three? Right,
what year was the Madden hitstick introduced? Was it A two thousand and three,

(01:06:53):
B two thousand and four, Ctwo thousand and five or D two
thousand and six? Hitstick? Man, that's hard, man? You would
you know that answer? Let's let'sgo with the B B year two thousand

(01:07:13):
and five. See what's the madand headstick? What is that? It's
just where you can you can hithit player, hit offensive players even harder
to possibly make them fumble. Okay, very good. Shouldn't you have been
able to do that already in thegame? No? Okay, all right,
So George is up against it.He's uh, he's gotten one,
he's got two to go. He'sgot to get them both correct. Yes,

(01:07:35):
I'm doing a good job of keepingcount. I just made them harder
as we get God, good,fantastic, Go ahead, all right,
this is about to really test you, George. George. For two years,
between nineteen ninety nine and two thousand, there were seven players that were
given a one hundred overall rating.Before it was removing two thousand and one,

(01:07:58):
there were seven of them. Youcan name three, any three of
the seven players to repeat what soI can name three us there were seven.
There were seven players given one hundredoverall rating and man between between nineteen
ninety nine and two thousand. Youcan name any three of the seven players,

(01:08:19):
any three. So Jerry Rice wasin there. So he asked the
one right? Correct, Jerry Rice? Okay, Dion Sanders that his years
on Sanders would have been one hundredright correct? One more? Very good
then Barry Sanders boom? How aboutthat? The open ended one was tough

(01:08:41):
and he got it? He nowthat very good. It all comes down
to this final question. How whichwhich AFC, which NFL conference has the
most players appeared that appeared on themon the Madden cover? How many times?
Come on, wow, terror,these are all terran. These are
not me. I'm advocating myself fromthis game. But it's it's one of

(01:09:06):
you know, fifty percent chance ofgetting it right right, I'm gonna hear
you there. I'm gonna give youthe options. Okay, okay, was
it the a C North You're goingdivision Division Division Conference Division North, Vision,
a f C West, f CWest, Yeah, NFC North or

(01:09:28):
NFC west Man. I man,I have a clue. We're gonna get
AFC West a f C west Man. Damn Terran. You just you took
my guy, George, and uhyou got him so close to the finish
line he couldn't get over. Well, George, h don't blame me.

(01:09:51):
I had nothing to do with this, but but thank you for playing.
Congratulations. Yeah, ive been didJimmy Buffett for like eleven years and ago.
You should give me some tickets anyway, if you have some minut we'll
see, we'll see, we'll seewhat we can do. You know this
is not Jimmy Buffett. It's ait's a tribute to Jimmy Buffett. I
cried when Jimmy Buffett died. Isat outside and I thought of my late

(01:10:13):
friend, Rich Wahlberg, my bestfriend who passed away two and a half
years ago, and I thought ofJimmy and Rich up there enjoying a cold
one, because I would imagine inheaven it's always five o'clock. All right,
George, thanks very much, tarngreat job. That was your first
time proctering the exam, so tospeak. You don't think they were too
hot. I had no idea.But I know nothing about Madden, so

(01:10:36):
I knew the Dante Culpepper one thatone. I knew the first quarterback on
madd but glad I know, bythe way, the final answer it was
the AFC North. North has sixplayers that's been on the cover, but
no Bengals. Correct, no Bengals. Let me see if I can name
them really quick, Okay, Rayray Lewis, Peyton Hillis yep, Antonio

(01:10:58):
Brown, Troy Polamalo Lamar yep.And then like uh Ed Reid uh see.
I was kind of confused with thisone because like this guy was on
there before it was called the North, it was called still oh Eddie George
yep. See. I only knowthat because I wrote questions about Madden covers

(01:11:21):
that we're using tomorrow. All right, good stuff. By the way,
if you want to go see theCoral Reefer band. First of all,
we have another we'll do the OhioCup thing maybe at five thirty, five
twenty five twenty or five thirty.I haven't made up my mind. If
you call it five to twenty,you have to play the Ohio Cup.
Yeah, yeah, you've played.We're not going to recycle the same question.

(01:11:42):
So we have a best of sevenOhio Cup game. To go see
the Coral Reefer Band at Riverband atribute to Jimmy Buffett and uh. If
you don't win tickets, you couldbuy them right now at ticketmaster dot com.
August fourth at Riverbend. Hey quicklysomething that I did not mention during
local sports headlines, but a veryI think instrumental figure in the history of

(01:12:05):
area football, high school, college, and pro Homer Rice passed away at
the age of ninety seven yesterday,according to a Georgia Tech University. His
Hall of Fame football career began inthe greater Cincinnati area. He was the
coach at Highlands. He won fiftyconsecutive games at one point, consecutive Class

(01:12:29):
Double A state championships in sixty andsixty one before they had a playoff in
Northern Kentucky. His fifty seventeen wentten to zero and was one of the
best pre playoff teams in Northern Kentuckyhistory. He was the offensive coordinator at
UK. He was the head footballcoach at the University of Cincinnati in the
sixties, and he was the headcoach of the Bengals in seventy eight and
seventy nine, Homer Rice passes awayat the age of ninety seven. I

(01:12:54):
gleaned most of that biographical information fromJames Weber's piece in the Inquirer. See
I give credit words to Brendan andJones on baseball Next. All right,
it's five seven. This is ESPNfifteen thirty. Good afternoon on Moweger.
Thank you for joining us. Hopefullyyou're having like the greatest Tuesday afternoon of

(01:13:15):
all time. Five o'clock happy hoursand service off michelob Ultra. You're gonna
need a michelo vultra after I tellyou this. Rads are playing the night
against the Guardians. First pitch isjust about two hours away. It's the
Ohio Cup. David Bell met withreporters and maybe forty minutes or so ago
and had some not so good news. Christian and Karnassi on Strand has ligament

(01:13:40):
damage with his fractured hand, andhe is considering options that include season ending
surgery. Cees has been out awhile. They have paused his not his
rehab assignment, but they have pausedthe work that he has been doing since
he went on the injured list,and now at least on the table for

(01:14:01):
the time being, is an optionthat includes season ending surgery. That's Christian
in Kronasi on strand. The newsis equally troubling for a guy who hasn't
pitched at all this year, BrandonWilliamson. They returned him from his rehab
assignment and kind of felt like theywere going to re examine what the approach
should be with him. Medically,he is dealing with a lesion on his

(01:14:26):
shoulder. He is also considering optionsthat include season ending surgery. This is
less than ideal, and that isa dramatic understatement. Let's let's begin with
with Brandon Williamson here. You know, when they sent down Graham Ashcraft,

(01:14:49):
which was a move that it madesense at face value, because well,
he had kind of been the weaklink in the starting rotation. We've been
waiting for him to make a leap. He hasn't made it here and they
sent him down, and I thinkmost of us thought, Okay, well,
that's coinciding with Williamson throwing pretty welldown there at Louisville and inching closer

(01:15:14):
to a return, and so itfelt like it was going to be a
swap out. Ashcraft goes down,Williamson comes up, and then we wait
and see if Williamson pitches as wellas he did last year, and we
see if he makes a major stepforward, and we see if Graham Ashcraft
at the light bulb comes on atLouisville and see what the next steps for
him are. So I guess myfirst thought when I saw the Brandon Williamson

(01:15:35):
thing was, well, they atleast they haven't said he's having surgery,
and so maybe there's a possibility thathe comes back. But let's be honest,
this doesn't feel like it's trending inthe right direction, and so it
puts the onus on Graham Ashcraft.Can you go down to Louisville, have

(01:15:55):
a starter or to pitch well andthen come back and hitch better than you
were, Because if the idea wasAshcraft is expendable because you're getting Williamson back,
well now you're not getting Williamson back. The Christian in Carnassion Strands saga
has been weird, to say theleast. Uh. And again, if

(01:16:17):
if you want to, if youwant to sort of go bright side of
things here, I guess you couldsay, well, they haven't said that
he's gonna have surgery. But youknow, again, let's be honest,
this is not trending in the rightdirection. I guess there's a few sort
of surface level reactions to this.One would be this is this is why

(01:16:38):
so many of us are skeptical,and it's it's it's no indictment against the
medical staff. It's no indictment againstanyone. I think, if anything,
it's it's an indictment against the thethe built in belief that I think we
have sometimes that what, hell,dude's gonna come back in the four to
six weeks they say he's gonna comeback. There are complications, there are

(01:17:01):
setbacks, there are things that areinvolved here that maybe are a little bit
difficult for us to understand. Butyou know, at times when the team
is struggling, we cling to theidea that, well, this guy is
gonna come back. Well, firstof all, is he Secondly, is
he going to come back on time? Third, when he comes back,
are we sure he's not going toget hurt again, aggravate an injury that

(01:17:24):
sort of thing. Fourth, arewe sure when he comes back that he's
going to be good. We talkedabout this last year often with the two
starting pitchers that missed a ton oftime, and Hunter Green and Nick Lodolo,
right like their hopes last season aroundthe trade deadline were pinned on Hunter
coming back and Nick coming back,both coming back and staying healthy, both

(01:17:45):
coming back and pitching better than theyhad been. Hunter Green came back,
didn't pitch Green didn't pitch great.Nick Lodolo never came back. I guess
to a degree you could say,well, the good news is they've gone
on this little run here recently.Brandon Williamson hasn't thrown a pitch for the
Reds this season, and they've goneon this run. And it's happened without

(01:18:06):
Christian in Kernows. Just call himces like everybody else does. It's it's
occurred with Cees not adding anything.Let's be honest and played in a while.
So the Reds have kind of enteredthe race and played better, gotten
closer to five hundred. Cees hasn'tdone a thing. But if you were

(01:18:27):
talking about the trade deadline in thoseoh so familiar terms of hurt guy coming
back is going to be the bestdeadline acquisition. This is example number six,
two hundred and forty. Why thatis a failed strategy. It didn't
work last year, It's not gonnawork this year. Hurt guy coming back

(01:18:51):
is going to be the best tradedeadline acquisition was a thing last year,
I suspect at least for some,maybe not for the Reds themselves, but
for some it was going to bea theme this year. Hey, look,
we're going to get Cees back.Maybe they do. What are you
getting when he comes back? Oris he not coming back to twenty twenty

(01:19:15):
five? Uh? Now, noelfeMarte is a little bit different because he's
not coming off an injury. Weknow when he is coming back, we
know when he's eligible to come backat least, and yeah, he dealt
with that hammy issue that he sufferedduring Winter Ball last year. But that
dude, we feel like when hecomes back, we know what his role
should be, and I feel likewe can wrap our brain around, at

(01:19:36):
least to a small degree, whatsort of production we should expect from him
the other guys. Hurt guy comingback is a flimsy strategy, So there's
that. It also maybe it amplifiesthe need for a starting pitcher because now
there's not maybe as much depth.You know, if you were hoping Williamson

(01:19:59):
could come back and then okay,well Ashcraft gets sent to Louisville. You've
got enough depth that a guy likeGraham Ashcraft is pitching at Louisville. It
compromises the depth. Uh. Itdefinitely points the arrow toward needing a bat.
Right around the trade deadline, Redswere gonna need help with the deadline.
Even if these guys came back.They're gonna need help with the deadline,

(01:20:20):
knowing what we know about these guys, which is more uncertainty than anything
else. But let's be honest,this doesn't feel like it's going in the
right direction. I also understand this, and the great Reds website redreporter dot
com made an allusion to this.It's hard to process all these injuries.
Look, the Reds are playing betterright now. I'm bullish on their chances.

(01:20:42):
I am because the starting pitchings andstrength. But it's hard to process
all of these Reds injuries that haveaffected the team this season and not think
back to July thirty first last year. Trade deadline was actually all is the
first, but they were not moreaggressive. They were not more aggressive,

(01:21:03):
and the rationale was, hey,we're ahead of schedule, just wait till
next year. Anything we do thisyear is gravy. Next year we're gonna
be even better. Look, man, if there's one lesson we could apply
to future discussions about aggressiveness at thetrade deadline, whether it be during the

(01:21:25):
season or during the off season,it's the bright future that you think you
have isn't guaranteed to manifest itself ina way that includes more success the following
season. I'm being way too verbosewith that, but nothing is guaranteed,
right your a go at this time. Hey, they're ahead of schedule.

(01:21:47):
They're ahead of schedule. Don't tradeaway any parts because you know what,
Just go for it more next year. All these guys are gonna be older,
Okay, are they gonna be healthy? Like sometimes we do this in
sports, we talk about the futureas if it is more certain than it
is. They have a lot ofyoung talent, They have a lot of

(01:22:09):
good young players. They do Ithink have a bright future, and there's
nothing that says they can't still makethe playoffs this year. They have surged
recently without the two guys who arebeing talked about right now, but as
the number of players who were availablelast year continue to go through injury,

(01:22:31):
issues this year. You can't helpbut wonder what if they would have taken
that healthy group of players last yearand significantly added to it instead of merely
hoping for better performances by players whoare now hurt this year. Five point
three, seven, four, nine, fifteen thirty is our phone number.

(01:22:54):
And again, like the good newsis the Reds have played well. Cees
has had nothing to do with it, have played well. Brandon Williamson has
had nothing to do with it.There's also something about the long term development
here, right, Christian Acronossi Strandhas not played a ton of big league
ball, Brandon Williamson hasn't gone througha full big league season. So if
nothing else, these guys were goingto accumulate experience. It's like we talked

(01:23:17):
about with some of the other guyswho aren't healthy before. Right, these
guys were gonna use twenty twenty fourto perform better, accumulate experience, continue
to develop, continue to develop whileplaying and while performing at the big league
level. And so it doesn't justimpact Their absences don't just impact the team.

(01:23:39):
Their absences impact potentially their development.And that's concerning. But you know,
again, if the summer unfolds,and this team gets closer and closer
to first place, or closer andcloser to a playoff spot, if they
solidify their status as contention less andless frequently can you count on hurt guy

(01:24:06):
coming back being the main thing thatlifts us to the postseason. It's probably
gonna have to. They're gonna needhelp from outside, and every time one
of their own guys suffers some sortof injury or deals with some sort of
setback, it just amplifies the needto go get help from elsewhere. Maybe

(01:24:27):
not on June the eleventh, probablyclose to the end of July. Five
point three, seven four nine,fifteen thirty is our phone number. Five
o'clock Happy Hour is a service ofmichelob Ultra. If you're headed to the
ballpark tonight, grab an ice caolmichelob Ultra. They sell it at gabp
or or I'll see across the streetbefore first pitch, we'll have a mic

(01:24:47):
ultra and commisserate over today's bad injurynews. Eighteen minutes after five o'clock.
Uh, we're giving away more ticketsto go see the Coral Reefer Band Tribute
to Jimmy Buffett August f will testyour knowledge of the Ohio Cup. A
few thoughts on Joe Burrow and JamarChase coming up on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports take facking Yellow? Whyare we playing the Steelers? Why are

(01:25:11):
we playing Pittsburgh? Why are wedoing this? Tarran? What are you
doing? I do like this?Whi's khalifa? All right? What are
we doing here? Five point threeseven four nine, fifteen thirty. We're
talking to folks. Uh. Ifyou haven't heard Reds are getting said to
play the Guardians, you probably knewthat. Christian and Karnassi on Strand is

(01:25:33):
exploring a possibility of having season endingsurgery. Brandon Williamson has a lesion on
his shoulder with Cees it's a ligamentdamage along with his fractured hand. And
Williamson, who was just recalled fromhis rehab assignment last week, has a

(01:25:55):
lesion in his shoulder. Neither soundgood. Both chore surgery. Stay tuned.
Let's see here, John and Finley, you're on ESPN fifteen thirty.
How are you good? How areyou mo man? I'm awesome? What's
up? I do like black andYellow also, but I also don't like
the Steelers. So it's not youneed to change the colors of that song.

(01:26:19):
I guess I don't know exactly.Yeah, that's disappointing about especially in
Karnaskio and Strand I with William said, I mean, I think we're kind
of on the fence with them ofwhether he was going to actually be able
to come back and all that.But in Karnaski O and Strand, I
mean, one one, you losethe the well, the opportunity for him

(01:26:41):
to contribute. But then you alsofrom his side, you just lose that
year of development. And that's it. Just it stinks that way. The
thing I worry about though, AndI know you might want to go get
some help. I just I don'tknow to go get the kin to help
that you really need, You're gonnahave to give up some of our prospects.

(01:27:05):
And and that's kind of a milliondollar question when you get into this,
because I mean we've done this before, when we've picked up guys like
Tommy fam and Will Myers and peoplelike that and Mike Forward unfortunately, but
but I think we need if you'regonna go get somebody, you gotta go
get somebody probably all higher grade thanthat. Yeah, yeah, and when

(01:27:29):
you go get a difference maker,you're gonna give up something. You have
to give up something. So well, yeah, I don't like a question.
I don't know that I that Ilove. You know, Will Myers
was a little bit different because hewas on last year's team, but like
Tommy Fam, was added to ateam that ended up losing one hundred games.
So even if he was a evenif he was putting up triple Crown

(01:27:50):
type numbers, he wasn't gonna makea huge difference because the team around him
stunk. And so, you know, could could I get a version of
Tommy Fam that the era on adiamondback Scott last year? You know is
that guy Tommy Fam himself who's currentlyon the inter List, But he's with
the Chicago White Sox, who arehistorically bad. So I mean, yeah,
it would be great to have adifference maker, but like you know,

(01:28:13):
Will Myers was never really going tocontribute that much with the way the
team was constructed when he was here. Now it turned it turned out that
he was expendable because the Reds hadyounger dudes that you know, were worth
moving on, moving up and worthbasically made Will Myers expendable because the team
should be a little bit better.You could stand to bring in somebody who

(01:28:34):
is maybe not quite a huge statisticaldifference maker, but is still capable of
providing an upgrade or capable of providinga boost relative to what they have right
now. Yeah, I think youprobably have to look at maybe some of
the teams that's going to be sellersand see what they have. But the
issue with that, though, isyou get into bidding wars with the Dodgers

(01:28:57):
and the Phillies and the Yankees andteams like that, and that usually doesn't
go well. Well, you know, it's weird because you have a couple
of teams that are clearly in cellmode. Heck, you have the Marlins
who already gave up somebody, andyou know, folks are going to focus
in on Jazz Chisholm and the WhiteSox. They're in cell mode. And
so you know, you could lookat Luise Robert. What's he gonna cost?

(01:29:18):
Probably a lot. With the eraof the expanded playoffs, you know,
you have a lot of teams thaton June eleventh have no idea whether
they're buyers or sellers. Heck,the Reds are one of those teams,
not that they really have that muchto sell. So there are a lot
of teams. I mean, ifyou look at just at the National League,
there are a lot of teams whoare like a good ten days away

(01:29:39):
from really having a chance, andthere are bad ten days away from having
no chance. And so you sortof have to let the market. You
have to let the market kind ofestablish itself and figure out what the market
is. But I am not reluctantto give up something of value. I
think there is great worth in makinga legitimate, realistic effort at getting to

(01:30:04):
the postseason and checking off that box, and even getting to the postseason and
winning around which you haven't done inforever, of getting to the playoffs and
just throwing your hat in the ringand see you know what happens. I
think there's value in that. Ithink you're gonna have a lot of real

(01:30:25):
disaffected people if they have a realisticchance to contend and the deadline comes and
goes and they do next to nothing. I think that's gonna be hard to
swallow. Now, if they're eightgames out of the wildcard, nobody's gonna
want uber aggressiveness. But if weare dealing with the same storylines we were

(01:30:45):
last August, which was, hey, didn't want to part with prospects,
they're ahead of schedule, round upthe gang next year and take a stab
at it. I think that's gonnabe I think that's gonna be tough to
swallow. And I think the entireconversation brings us to a point where you
go, Okay, number one,who are the true untouchables? Who are
you really willing to talk with otherteams about that could get you a lot

(01:31:08):
in return? And where are thesurpluses If you believe the Reds have a
good farm system, if you believethe Reds have a lot of really good
young players, that there have tobe surpluses somewhere. Yeah. Did you
see that real Muto for the Philliesis going to be down for a while?
I did. Yeah, So youwonder if they're going to want to

(01:31:29):
go out and look for catchers withoutquestion? Yeah, no, JT.
Real Muto is gonna have knee surgery. Yeah, placed on the injured list,
John, Thank you? All right? Thanks? I just you know,
I mean, you know, again, the deadlines on the thirty first,
so we're we're six weeks away soeverybody's going to play thirty five games
between now and then. There area lot of teams trying to figure out

(01:31:51):
what they are. The Rats aretrying to figure out what they are now.
I would argue the Rads really aren'tgoing to be in like uber cell
mode. They don't have a lotof at least in the traditional sense,
a lot of veteran players under expiringcontracts. You're not gonna have that.
But should they be looking They shouldalways be looking for controllable talent. They

(01:32:11):
should always be looking for high endcontrollable talent. But if we're gonna put
it in buy versus cell terms,I'm sorry. A lack of aggression if
you have a legitimate chance and saywhat you want about the strategy. Last
year, the Rets had a legitimatechance. They finished two games out of
the wildcard. There were nine overfive hundred deep into the summer. They

(01:32:33):
were in first place in August.Last year, they had a legitimate chance.
That chance was not accompanied by aggressivenessby the front office, in part
because they leaned on injured players comingback and helping and minor leaguers being called

(01:32:54):
up and helping and helping enough toget to the postseason at some point.
They haven't won a playoff series inalmost three decades. At some point you
gotta say, screw it, we'regoing for it. At some point you
gotta say we're gonna We're gonna makea real concerted effort to legitimately go for
it here. And maybe that's notthis summer. Maybe it's this offseason,

(01:33:15):
maybe it's next summer. But whenyou do that, it is gonna come
at a cost. Every time theReds have made a trade in which they
acquired a significant piece in an effortto win in the short term, it
has cost something of value every time, and usually it's been worth it.

(01:33:42):
We'll see if it's worth it aroundJuly thirty, first, twenty seven,
away from six o'clock, and we'regonna give away more tickets now. We
need contestants. The Ohio Cup startstonight. Know you'r Ohio Cup for a
chance to go see the Coral ReeferBand, a Jimmy Buffett tribute. It's
Jimmy Buffett's band without the eight GreatJimmy Buffett. Uh Tickets are on sale
right now. You can win themas we test your knowledge of the Reds

(01:34:06):
and the Cleveland Guardians slash Indians andtheir Shared History five one three seven four
nine, fifteen thirty. Five onethree seven four nine, fifteen thirty.
If you know a lot about theReds, if you know a lot about
the Ohio Cup, if you wantto go see Jimmy Buffett's band at Riverbend,
We're looking for contestants right now.Five one three, seven four nine,

(01:34:27):
fifteen thirty. It's twenty six fromsix o'clock on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station. All right,we're gonna give away the coral reef for
band tickets here in just a second. A couple of things really quick.
Reds and Guardians Tonight's seven ten,seven hundred WLW bad injury news. I

(01:34:49):
guess the good news is we're nottalking about players who are being removed from
the active roster, but we aretalking about guys that we thought would would
come back, maybe reason soon tohelp out the teams. Christian and Karnassi
on Strand is dealing with a ligamentdamage with his fractured hand, and Brandon
Williamson has a legion legion ligjon inhis shoulder. Both are considering surgery.

(01:35:15):
The surgical procedures would be. Ifthey took place, they'd be season ending.
Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase both atBengals Mini caamp. I am not
worried about Jamar Chase at all.Jamar Chase, you talk about being motivated.
You're out to prove this year thatyou are deserving of being the highest
paid wide receiver in the league,when the middle class wide receiver is being

(01:35:40):
squeezed out, and when the markethas just been reset. I've seen that
a lot today. Well, Chasein search of a new contract. Who
among us isn't looking for a newcontract, more job security, more money.
Everybody is, every player is thepot of gold at the end of
the proverbial rainbow. For Jamar Chaseis emments really quickly here before we play

(01:36:03):
our game. I mentioned this atthe top of the show. Tony Pike
was not here today. Austin Elmorewas also not here today for since the
three sixty if you go to Xand I think he has done this on
his other socials as well. Austin'sfamily said goodbye to Austin's grandmother today and
he just put a really really nicepost up about her and what she meant

(01:36:29):
to him, and I would encourageyou to check that out and reach out
to Austin and send your best wishesto him and his family. That's obviously
very sad news. The uplifting newsTony Pike and his wife have added to
their family, Walker Kent Pike,born yesterday and looks beautiful. Tony has
social posts about that, So issueyour congratulations to Tony and Meredith. All

(01:36:54):
right, we've got Ohio Cup trivia, Tarn. Are you excited for the
Ohio Cup? Yes? Because thistime I can just sit back and do
nothing. Hit the buttons. Hitthe buttons. All right? Who do
we have with us? How muchtime do we have? We get about
six minutes? Six minutes, sowe got to do this quickly. Or
who do we have? We haveSean and we have Steve Arren? Can
you put them on? Hi?Sean? How are you? I never

(01:37:14):
been better? Steve? Do wehave Steve? Steve with a Steve?
How you doing? Yes, sir? How are you doing? Oh?
Man? I'm great? All right, Tarn? Who is calling the coin?
Sean can call it, Sean,call it in the air. Go
ahead, tayl Tails never fails.Wow, what a flipout was what do
we have, Taran, It's it'shead Steve. You want to play or
do nothing? I'll try and he'sgonna play. I like it. All

(01:37:40):
right, here we go, TerrorDo we have time to do best of
seven or just best of five?Let's do best of five? All right,
here we go. I'm gonna pickthe best five of these seven.
All right, here we go,Steve. It's testing your knowledge of the
Ohio Cup. The first ever regularseason Ohio Cup game was played on June
sixteenth, nineteen ninety seven. Inthe Reds lineup that day, which was

(01:38:00):
a game played in Cleveland, afour to one Reds win, were two
former National League MVPs. The Redshad two former NL MVPs in their starting
lineup that night. One was BarryLarkin, who was the other A Terry
Pendleton, B Reggie Sanders or C. Benito Santiago. I'm gonna go with

(01:38:25):
Steve. Benito Santiago is the BenitoSantiago. No, Steve. It was
Terry Pendleton, who briefly played forthe Reds in nineteen ninety seven NL MVP
and nineteen ninety He should not havebeen MVP that year. Should have been
Barry bonds. But nonetheless, allright, here we go, still have
a chance. Who threw the onlyno hitter in Ohio Cup history? A

(01:38:46):
Oral Hersheiser, B. Homer Baileyor C. Wade Miley. I think
that would be C. Wade Miley. Very good, Yes, two years
ago? Wade Miley? May seventh, two or three years ago? May
seventh, twenty twenty one, Yes, very easy one. Congratulations, all
right, we're gonna skip. Allright, let's do this one. The

(01:39:10):
first red to hit a home runagainst Cleveland in Great American Ballpark in a
regular season game. They played thison July second, two thousand and four.
And the reason I said regular seasongame if you remember, the Indians
were here for two exhibition games whenthey opened the park in two thousand and
three, So the first Reds Clevelandregular season game at GABP took place in

(01:39:32):
two thousand and four. Who hitthe Reds first homer against Cleveland at GABP?
Was it the immortal Brandon Larson,the legendary Jacob Cruz or the iconic
D'Angelo Jimenez, ab or C.Could you read the first two again?
Sure? Definitely don't think it's c. A. Brandon Larson B. Jacob

(01:39:54):
Cruz or C. DiAngelo Jiminez.I'll say A and I get no,
it was di'angelo, him and House. That's all right, you get these
next two. You're winning the tickets. Here we go, all right.
Batless Wonder, Yeah, the battlessWonder. That's right, all right.
Uh. My favorite all time gameat GABP took place during the Ohio Cup

(01:40:16):
in two thousand and six. AdamDunn hit a walk off Grand Slam home
run on a Friday night to beatthe Indians. Who did he hit it
off of A Bob Wickman, BJake Westbrook or C. Roberto Hernandez.
I'm just gonna guess, B.But that call of Marty's, that game
with the best ever? Was itb Jake Westbrook? Steve, I'm so

(01:40:42):
sorry it was Bob Wickman. Itsucks. That's sorry. We're gonna give
away like a thousand pair tomorrow.You can try again. Well, thanks
for trying, mo. I didwhat I could, Steve, Thank you
so much, Tara. How muchtime do we have? Got? Three
minutes? Can I can? I? Can? I ask you my three
questions here? You want to try? I want to give to go?
Why not save them? For tomorrow. Boy, I'll tell you what this

(01:41:03):
is why you're the best. UhSean, you did absolutely nothing and yet
you're gonna go see the Coral ReeferBand at Riverbend. Congratulations, Thank you
so much, well honored. No, you should be all right, Hang
tight, Terran, we'll get yourinformation and yeah, we'll we'll ask,
well, how many pairs do wehave to give away tomorrow, Tarran?

(01:41:24):
Uh, well, we still havethree all together, but we have,
but we have two already. Iplay your Madden Cover game. Madden Cover
Game, that's one. Another OhioCup game that's two. And then maybe
maybe maybe we can make our friendof Rakeechino do it wrestling one on Thursday.
Oh yes, that's right, wrestlingthemed trivia. That'll be good.
All right, congratulations. If youwant to go see the Coral Reefer Band

(01:41:45):
aid tribute to Jimmy Buffett, thatshow is going to be on August the
fourth, which is a Sunday atRiverband. Tickets are on sale right now,
get them, get them all,they're hot ticketmaster dot com. And
a half min and a half,I am working on getting EDWARDO Perez on
the show tomorrow. I don't knowthat it's going to happen. I'm not

(01:42:08):
here Thursday or Friday, but we'vebeen offered EDWARDO Perez. I told them
that I was only here tomorrow andthat I haven't heard back, but I've
I've just done a follow up emailon my laptop, which is this close
to officially being broken. Anything youmight miss, go get on the iHeartRadio
app or the podcast page of ESPNfifteen thirty dot com. Podcast of our

(01:42:30):
show are a service of long necksports, grill, stay long, come
often five o'clock happy hour service offMicheloboultra. We're back tomorrow three oh five.
Don't know why I'm talking so fast. We have to go since E
three to sixty is tomorrow at noon. We are back at three oh five
tomorrow. Have a great night.Thank you for listening, and thanks to
Tarran for producing. This is ESPNfifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station. When the

(01:43:02):
employers like seven hundred WLWNCYNTI

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