Dr. Amelia Wiggins from OrthoCincy joined us on ESPN1530 to discuss the range of possiblities for Sam Hubbard's knee injury, Erick All's return to field after suffering an ACL tear last season, and two Reds with similar injuries.
Learn more about OrthoCincy by going here.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger
Learn more about OrthoCincy by going here.
Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530.
Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listen
Get more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We do this on Wednesdays. We talk injuries, mainly NFL injuries,
but a lot of baseball obviously this year as well
with one of the experts from Orthos Since. What we
love about Orthos Since is they have specialists of locations
all over the Tri State and they also offer walkin
orthopedic urgent care during the week nine a m. To
nine pm. Saturday's nine am to one pm and Edgwood
(00:22):
Anderson learn more at Orthosinc dot com. That's Ortho ci
NCY dot com doctor Amelia Wiggins from Orthos since he
is with us. It feels like the Bengals dodged a
bullet when it comes to Sam Hubbard taking off on
a cart Sunday, didn't go through yesterday's practice and pads
no practice today. They're calling what he has a knee injury.
(00:42):
They insist they don't believe it's serious. Let's run through
the gamut of possibilities here. What sort of things are
being considered?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So a knee injury, you know, a sprain, we could
be talking about a sprain of an MCL, the ligament
on the inside of the knee.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
A lot of times when guys get tangled up.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Can get stretched a Grade one MCL sprain and you're
looking at four to six weeks at the most, So
that would be one option. A ptellus subluxation or dislocation.
Sometimes the kneecapped shifts in the groove there and that
can cause some pain in the front of the knee,
and certainly that would cause an athlete to stop.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And that could you know, very minor.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
You can cause a subluxation and the patient would would
have some discomfort, but that would resolve quickly, so you know,
hopefully that's what's happening.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
He could also have a bone bruise.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
You know, the same way you bruise a muscle or
anything else in your body, you can actually bruise your bone,
which can cause pain, can cause swelling, but it doesn't
require surgery. So that could be something that's going on
as well, just from an impact.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
We hear all the time about how we they're going
to perform an MRI, and I've never had an MRI
done yet. We it's it's become kind of part of
our basic everyday conversation, and yet so many of us
really don't know what an MRI is, how it works,
how it's applied. So how is it used, especially in
a case like this where you're trying to figure out
exactly what the issue might be.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, MRIs are so helpful. We use them all the
time to assist with our diagnosis. You know, we do
a physical exam, We have great physical exam skills.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
We generally know what is going on, but the MRI
adds a little extra information.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So something like an ACL that's generally easy for me
to diagnose with my physical exam, But that bone bruise,
that's not something that I can see on exam. There's
not a test for that. It's just a clinical suspicion.
And so the MRI shows us that closer look. What's
happening with the meniscus, what's happening with the cartilage, what's happening.
There's fat pads and synovium in the meat, and those
(02:49):
can get aggravated and cause inflammation. The MRI gives you
that closer look that an X ray and a physical
exam don't give. For those of us in the real world,
you know, we would probably wait four to six weeks
to see, you know, did the pain get better on
its own, And if it doesn't, then we get an
MRI you know, that's when you or I would get one.
But per professional athlete, you got to move quick because
(03:12):
we don't have four to six weeks to see if
they're going to get better. And there are treatments that
they can do. You know, if an MRI shows a
low grade MCL sprain, they can do a p RP
injection to improve the healing on that. You know, if
it shows the bone bruise, he can start getting back
into light activity as his symptoms allow. You know, if
it shows a meniscous contusion, we can progress him through
(03:34):
that a little bit faster than you know, some some
other scenarios. So the MRI is so helpful for our
professional athletes because it really gives us a baseline and
then we can talk to them more about their prognosis.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
What really are the.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Risks if we move too quickly or too slowly on
a specific injury.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
You mentioned ACL injuries and that's what one of the
newer Bengals dealt with in college, Eric All. And the
good news is was clear to return to the pice
field this week, and so he suffered this injury back
in October, back on the field in late July. Does
that fit within the typical timeline for an injury like this.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Absolutely, I tell my athletes nine months to a year,
and professional versus high school, it's all the same. We
can't rush biology, and the biology takes nine months to
a year to heal an ACL reconstruction. His graft is
now in its final stages of healing, so now he's
ready to start playing. And he's been doing the functional
(04:32):
rehab all along, so his muscles have been ready for
a while. It's just a matter of letting that graft mature,
and usually nine months to a year that's when we
see that happening. So now it's appropriate for him to
get back out there to start taking some hits. And
this is the perfect time for him to get back
because he can go a little bit lighter during this
preseason lighter for professional athlete, of course, but you know, lighter,
(04:56):
and then as they progress the intensity of their practice,
he'll get more confident in.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
His knee as well.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I would much rather him come back now, go through
the preseason and the training and then be ready to
go one hundred percent day one, then to start practice
at game one. Well, now if you can't, you can't
just go in at one hundred percent, he's going.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
To ramp up. Right.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So, when an athlete is cleared, are there I mean,
obviously you're watching him a little bit more closely than
an athlete who's not dealt with any injury. But are
there extra precautions that they may be taking with him
as opposed to other guys who have been healthy all along.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Absolutely, Like his first few weeks, even even up to
a month back at practice, which he's been doing probably
for a few months, is fifty percent speed fifty percent
you know, with who with his agilities, he'll go fifty
percent power. Then as that's feeling good, he's feeling confident,
then they'll add a little bit more intensity, more duration
(05:53):
to his workouts. He would still be non contact until
about that nine or tenth month point, and then even
when he starts contact with drills, he'll start light contact.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
You know, they'll tell his teammates, don't.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Hit him as hard as you hit somebody first time out,
you know, let him get his feet under and let
him get his confidence back. Mentally, recovering from an ACL
injury and an injury in general is often a part
of it too, So they've got to build the confidence
back that they can take a hit and they can
give a hit. And so gradually over the next few
(06:27):
months he'll he'll take harder hits, he'll and he'll progress back.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
To full strength.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Doctor Amilia Wiggins from ORTHO, since he is with us,
I want to ask you about two Reds dealing with
a similar injury that I don't think I had ever
heard of. Brent souit Or, the lefty pitcher, went on
the injured list a week and a half ago with
what they call a partial tear of the left terrace
major muscle, and then the Reds had a catcher, Austin Wins.
(06:54):
He was placed on the injured list after this weekend
with a partial tear of the right terrace major muscle.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I don't know that I've ever heard of the terrace
major muscle. What is it?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I know, yes, it's not one commonly talked about. I
was excited to see this on here. So but you've
heard of the latisimus stor side.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
You've heard of the lats. You go and do a
LATS day at the gym.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Okay, the terry's major runs right along the lat.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
The LAT starts at the spine and goes.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
To the humorous right where the inside of your arm,
that Terry's major goes from the scapula to that same
insertion spot on the humorous.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
So people tear their lat, it would feel the same.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And I think one of the guy said that he
felt tightness in his lat well, that Terry's major is
running right along with it. So just like your lat
ad dex it brings your arm across your body and
it internally rotates, which is obviously very important for a
pictures by mechanics the pictures are and throwers are using
their terries major as well with their lats to get
(08:04):
that job done.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Are we talking about an injury here that usually requires surgery?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
No, not typically with a Terry's major injury, those are
typically treated conservatively, especially if it's a tear within the muscle.
That's it's time, it's rest, you know, anti inflammatories, and
then a progression back to throwing a LAT tear.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Now, they often will happen together.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You'll get a lat latismus dorseye injury, you know, and
the terries major can be injured as well if the
latisimus dorsie pulled off the bone same way you could
pull your peck major off. You're gonna have a peck
tear those that is one that would require surgery. But
typically with the with the terries major tears, those are
usually more muscular and there's no surgery indicated for that.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
All right, something I never heard of, Now I know
a lot more. Always awesome to have with us.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Thank you so much, awesome, thank you, it's good to talk.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It is awesome to have doctor Amelia Wiggins with us
from Orthos Sinc. I say this every week. The great
thing about the people at Orthos since is they have
specialists and locations across the Tri State offers walkin orthopedic
urgent care during the week nine a to nine p.
Saturday's nine e to one p in Edgewood and Anderson
better than going to an er, Cheaper than going to
(09:24):
an er, more convenient than going to an er. Whenever
you have an urgent orthopedic injury. Orthosinc. Dot com, Ortho
c I n c Y dot com
We do this on Wednesdays. We talk injuries, mainly NFL injuries,
but a lot of baseball obviously this year as well
with one of the experts from Orthos Since. What we
love about Orthos Since is they have specialists of locations
all over the Tri State and they also offer walkin
orthopedic urgent care during the week nine a m. To
nine pm. Saturday's nine am to one pm and Edgwood
(00:22):
Anderson learn more at Orthosinc dot com. That's Ortho ci
NCY dot com doctor Amelia Wiggins from Orthos since he
is with us. It feels like the Bengals dodged a
bullet when it comes to Sam Hubbard taking off on
a cart Sunday, didn't go through yesterday's practice and pads
no practice today. They're calling what he has a knee injury.
(00:42):
They insist they don't believe it's serious. Let's run through
the gamut of possibilities here. What sort of things are
being considered?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So a knee injury, you know, a sprain, we could
be talking about a sprain of an MCL, the ligament
on the inside of the knee.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
A lot of times when guys get tangled up.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Can get stretched a Grade one MCL sprain and you're
looking at four to six weeks at the most, So
that would be one option. A ptellus subluxation or dislocation.
Sometimes the kneecapped shifts in the groove there and that
can cause some pain in the front of the knee,
and certainly that would cause an athlete to stop.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And that could you know, very minor.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
You can cause a subluxation and the patient would would
have some discomfort, but that would resolve quickly, so you know,
hopefully that's what's happening.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
He could also have a bone bruise.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
You know, the same way you bruise a muscle or
anything else in your body, you can actually bruise your bone,
which can cause pain, can cause swelling, but it doesn't
require surgery. So that could be something that's going on
as well, just from an impact.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
We hear all the time about how we they're going
to perform an MRI, and I've never had an MRI
done yet. We it's it's become kind of part of
our basic everyday conversation, and yet so many of us
really don't know what an MRI is, how it works,
how it's applied. So how is it used, especially in
a case like this where you're trying to figure out
exactly what the issue might be.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, MRIs are so helpful. We use them all the
time to assist with our diagnosis. You know, we do
a physical exam, We have great physical exam skills.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
We generally know what is going on, but the MRI
adds a little extra information.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So something like an ACL that's generally easy for me
to diagnose with my physical exam, But that bone bruise,
that's not something that I can see on exam. There's
not a test for that. It's just a clinical suspicion.
And so the MRI shows us that closer look. What's
happening with the meniscus, what's happening with the cartilage, what's happening.
There's fat pads and synovium in the meat, and those
(02:49):
can get aggravated and cause inflammation. The MRI gives you
that closer look that an X ray and a physical
exam don't give. For those of us in the real world,
you know, we would probably wait four to six weeks
to see, you know, did the pain get better on
its own, And if it doesn't, then we get an
MRI you know, that's when you or I would get one.
But per professional athlete, you got to move quick because
(03:12):
we don't have four to six weeks to see if
they're going to get better. And there are treatments that
they can do. You know, if an MRI shows a
low grade MCL sprain, they can do a p RP
injection to improve the healing on that. You know, if
it shows the bone bruise, he can start getting back
into light activity as his symptoms allow. You know, if
it shows a meniscous contusion, we can progress him through
(03:34):
that a little bit faster than you know, some some
other scenarios. So the MRI is so helpful for our
professional athletes because it really gives us a baseline and
then we can talk to them more about their prognosis.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
What really are the.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Risks if we move too quickly or too slowly on
a specific injury.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
You mentioned ACL injuries and that's what one of the
newer Bengals dealt with in college, Eric All. And the
good news is was clear to return to the pice
field this week, and so he suffered this injury back
in October, back on the field in late July. Does
that fit within the typical timeline for an injury like this.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Absolutely, I tell my athletes nine months to a year,
and professional versus high school, it's all the same. We
can't rush biology, and the biology takes nine months to
a year to heal an ACL reconstruction. His graft is
now in its final stages of healing, so now he's
ready to start playing. And he's been doing the functional
(04:32):
rehab all along, so his muscles have been ready for
a while. It's just a matter of letting that graft mature,
and usually nine months to a year that's when we
see that happening. So now it's appropriate for him to
get back out there to start taking some hits. And
this is the perfect time for him to get back
because he can go a little bit lighter during this
preseason lighter for professional athlete, of course, but you know, lighter,
(04:56):
and then as they progress the intensity of their practice,
he'll get more confident in.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
His knee as well.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
I would much rather him come back now, go through
the preseason and the training and then be ready to
go one hundred percent day one, then to start practice
at game one. Well, now if you can't, you can't
just go in at one hundred percent, he's going.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
To ramp up. Right.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So, when an athlete is cleared, are there I mean,
obviously you're watching him a little bit more closely than
an athlete who's not dealt with any injury. But are
there extra precautions that they may be taking with him
as opposed to other guys who have been healthy all along.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Absolutely, Like his first few weeks, even even up to
a month back at practice, which he's been doing probably
for a few months, is fifty percent speed fifty percent
you know, with who with his agilities, he'll go fifty
percent power. Then as that's feeling good, he's feeling confident,
then they'll add a little bit more intensity, more duration
(05:53):
to his workouts. He would still be non contact until
about that nine or tenth month point, and then even
when he starts contact with drills, he'll start light contact.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
You know, they'll tell his teammates, don't.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Hit him as hard as you hit somebody first time out,
you know, let him get his feet under and let
him get his confidence back. Mentally, recovering from an ACL
injury and an injury in general is often a part
of it too, So they've got to build the confidence
back that they can take a hit and they can
give a hit. And so gradually over the next few
(06:27):
months he'll he'll take harder hits, he'll and he'll progress back.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
To full strength.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Doctor Amilia Wiggins from ORTHO, since he is with us,
I want to ask you about two Reds dealing with
a similar injury that I don't think I had ever
heard of. Brent souit Or, the lefty pitcher, went on
the injured list a week and a half ago with
what they call a partial tear of the left terrace
major muscle, and then the Reds had a catcher, Austin Wins.
(06:54):
He was placed on the injured list after this weekend
with a partial tear of the right terrace major muscle.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I don't know that I've ever heard of the terrace
major muscle. What is it?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I know, yes, it's not one commonly talked about. I
was excited to see this on here. So but you've
heard of the latisimus stor side.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
You've heard of the lats. You go and do a
LATS day at the gym.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Okay, the terry's major runs right along the lat.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
The LAT starts at the spine and goes.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
To the humorous right where the inside of your arm,
that Terry's major goes from the scapula to that same
insertion spot on the humorous.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
So people tear their lat, it would feel the same.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
And I think one of the guy said that he
felt tightness in his lat well, that Terry's major is
running right along with it. So just like your lat
ad dex it brings your arm across your body and
it internally rotates, which is obviously very important for a
pictures by mechanics the pictures are and throwers are using
their terries major as well with their lats to get
(08:04):
that job done.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Are we talking about an injury here that usually requires surgery?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
No, not typically with a Terry's major injury, those are
typically treated conservatively, especially if it's a tear within the muscle.
That's it's time, it's rest, you know, anti inflammatories, and
then a progression back to throwing a LAT tear.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Now, they often will happen together.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You'll get a lat latismus dorseye injury, you know, and
the terries major can be injured as well if the
latisimus dorsie pulled off the bone same way you could
pull your peck major off. You're gonna have a peck
tear those that is one that would require surgery. But
typically with the with the terries major tears, those are
usually more muscular and there's no surgery indicated for that.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
All right, something I never heard of, Now I know
a lot more. Always awesome to have with us.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Thank you so much, awesome, thank you, it's good to talk.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
It is awesome to have doctor Amelia Wiggins with us
from Orthos Sinc. I say this every week. The great
thing about the people at Orthos since is they have
specialists and locations across the Tri State offers walkin orthopedic
urgent care during the week nine a to nine p.
Saturday's nine e to one p in Edgewood and Anderson
better than going to an er, Cheaper than going to
(09:24):
an er, more convenient than going to an er. Whenever
you have an urgent orthopedic injury. Orthosinc. Dot com, Ortho
c I n c Y dot com
Mo Egger News
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