Tony Pike's Cincy 360 -- 11/11/25

Tony and Austin talk with Joe Danneman, Rick Walls, and Mo Egger. Plus, should Joe Burrow play or not in 2025? They also take your calls and TalkBacks on ESPN 1530!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Tony Pike, Sincy three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,
sponsored in part by Skyline Chili. Stop by Skyline Chili
for a three way or cheese cony today. Feeling good,
It's Skyline Time. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Good afternoon, Welcome in. It's the latest edition here of
Cincy three sixty. You are listening on the Home of
the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. A service
here and nour number one of our friends at Skyline Chili.
Anytime you're feeling good and hungry, it is always Skyline Time.
Thanks for joining us. Be a part of the show today.

(00:45):
You got two ways to do it. You could leave
us a talk back using the iHeartRadio app at the microphone.
We'll get to those in the second hour, or give
us a call five one, three, seven, four nine, fifteen thirty.
It's Tuesday. If you're familiar with the schedule at this point,
you know that that means our guy, Joe Danoman is
going to join us at one o'clock this afternoon. Joe

(01:05):
Danoman from Fox nineteen. At one o'clock, we have a
guest in the third hour. The executive director of the
Reds Museum in Hall of Fame, Rick Walls, will join
us to talk about the modern era ballot for the
Reds Hall of Fame and what goes into that. Scott
Saderfield is back with his weekly Tuesday press conference. You'll

(01:27):
hear that in our number three. And we've got a
lot to get to with the Cincinnati Bengals. More on
Joe Burrow from yesterday. We'll go around the NFL Awards.
We did not get to those yesterday. Going into the
second half of the season, we did not get to
our NFL superlatives. We've got maction to discuss and a

(01:48):
whole lot more. You're with us five, one, three, seven, four, nine,
fifteen thirty. Let's start with the top sports stories from
around the sports world. Austin. I feel like things around
LSU are gonna get a little dicey. Brian Kelly is
now going back at LSU. LSU is claiming that it
has not formally terminated the coach. They are trying to

(02:12):
find ways for Cause to get rid of Brian Kelly,
which would avoid paying a full buy out of nearly
fifty four million dollars.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
I'm not a big Brian Kelly guy. Matter of fact,
they can't stand the guy at all, but good for him.
Why should he not try to get as much money
as possible.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, I think I actually sided with BK on this one.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
I mean, fifty three million, that's a lot different than
twenty five or thirty yep. I mean, go get your bag, man,
get your bag, coach, go get your Why negotiate a
deal like that if you're not going to make the
most of it.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Agreed NBA action. Nico Harrison expected to be fired as
the general manager of the Dallas Mavericks today. It's just
not gone well for Nico Harrison. Obviously, the Luka Doncic
and who Luca is still becoming. They got Anthony Davis
for him. That has been a disaster. And I thought

(03:06):
Austin that maybe winning the lottery and getting Cooper flag
would be enough to save Nico's job. They've started three
and eight on the season. They are trending in the
wrong direction, and the Mavericks are moving in a new
direction and moving on from Nico Harrison.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, I mean, it just hasn't seemed to work out.
And the way that Nico has kind of carried himself
in the aftermath of the Luca trade and kind of
the arrogance that comes with it. The MAVs really, ever
since Mark Cuban had kind of stepped back, have made
a lot of questionable decisions. But I think a lot

(03:42):
of MAVs fans are happy with the news today that
Nico is no longer going to.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Be the GM. Speaking of the former mentioned Luka Doncik.
He had thirty eight, six and seven last night to
help the Lakers get off to an eight and three start.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
I saw that Lebron has begun practicing with the G
League Lakers. Yeah, so it won't be long now till Lebron,
who checks notes is almost fifty, will return to action
in the Association. Also, you're gonna talk about Wimby last night.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Victor Wimbin Yamah thirty eight twelve five five. Spurs outscore
the Bulls by thirteen in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Well, as we know, basketball season doesn't start until the
Monday after the Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yep. That being said, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
How you're supposed to defend Wemby on those last two
possessions for the Spurs.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Nope.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
I mean, nobody on planet Earth can defend that into
his credit. He buried those triples. They are eight and two.
I forgot they got dearon Fox as well. He's back
in the fold. That's a good, good, young and fun
Spurs team from NBA Action to Maction. We've got Maction
tonight and tomorrow, Ken State, Akron tonight, Ohio, Western Michigan

(04:52):
tonight tomorrow Buffalo and Central Michigan, Northern Illinois and Massachusetts
and Toledo travels to Yag Stadium to take on the
Miami RedHawks.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
I'm all with it. We got Maction back, baby. We've
got college basketball to discuss today. We will devote a
segment to this in the show today. But the cliff
note version not a good night at the Centas Center
last night for the Xavier Musketeers.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, thankfully nobody was there to see it. Yeah, sparse crowd.
I could not believe the pictures I saw. And you know,
the game was had started to get out of hand,
but in the second half there was like fifteen people.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, crazy sparse. Last night, Santa Clara was up nineteen
at the half. They were up thirty with just over
two minutes left in the game. It ends as a
nineteen point win for Santa Clara. They beat Xavier. We
have not seen yet, Austin a Richard Patino grade tweet. Yeah,
I mean, listen to do it when you win, you
got to do it when you lose. I agree.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
I like Richard Patino, I like his vibe. I respect
that he has done this, But you're going to lose
my respect real quick if you don't do the grades
when you lose.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
We need it today, Yep, we need it. Today's all
part of the process there, Richard yep.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
College basketball tonight, top twenty five matchup Creighton at Gonzaga,
Top twenty five matchup Texas Tech at Illinois Top I
think top ten matchup both in the top ten or
just outside of the top ten. The Louisville Cardinals hosting
the Kentucky Wildcats now twelve Kentucky's nine.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Is Mark Pope going to be there? He's got jury duty.
I think he got out of jury duty. Okay, he's
gonna be there. I think he was able to get
out of jury duty. It would be really funny if
he came in right as the game started, like all disheveled, yep,
as if he had just got back from the courthouse,
sat on the jury.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
That'd be kind of funny. Also, tonight, Dayton is at
Fifth Third Arena to take on the Cincinnati Bearcats. Love
that it's being played at fifth Third. We will recap
the Xavier game. You'll hear from Richard Patino. That's a
top ten game too. Sure you see in Dayton absolutely
top ten in the state of Ohio.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Absolutely, without a doubt, maybe top five. Would Xavier be
in the top ten in the state of Ohio right now? Boy,
it's a good question. I mean, Young Sound State's up there, Yeah,
right state, Ohio State, right state, Toledo has a decent program. Oh,
yu'll Miami the Bobby's Yeah. I mean I don't know
that Zavier would make the top ten in the state

(07:24):
of Ohio right now based off that performance. Lastly, yeah,
Cleveland State another good team man, Ohio Northern.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Wow, let's go, let's go. Just I mean, these are
just last thoughts I have. Last night Eagles Packers a
defensive contest. Were you entertained by that game?

Speaker 4 (07:47):
Not?

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Really, Okay, I was, I've just not been entertained watching
Jalen Hurts and Jordan Love. Now we saw a game
on Thursday Night Football that was ten to seven with
the Broncos and the Raiders. And you watch that game
and you think, I don't think these two teams are
that good. Then you get to Monday Night Football the
final score is ten to seven, and you know that
those teams are better.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Than that score indicates. I was entertained by the game
last night.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
Now was it?

Speaker 2 (08:14):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (08:14):
I have been more entertained if it was fifty six
to fifty. Yeah, sure. But also trying to figure out
what is going through the head of each of the
offensive play callers and also seeing just how good those
defenses are. I found that to be entertaining.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
I just when I look at these teams, I go
back to the quarterback play. I just don't know how
much I trust Jordan Love And right now it doesn't
feel like Jalen Hurts wants to be much of a runner.
I don't know how much I trust him as just
a passer. To me, it starts and stops with the
quarterback play. And you've got a green Bay team last night.

(08:53):
I get it. Philly's a good team. Green Bay's also
lost to the Panthers and the Browns. Those are in
explicable losses for Matt Lafleur and the Green Bay Packers,
and it brings me to more of a I guess
the the NFC as a whole, And we'll spend some
time talking about the AFC because I want to bring
that back to the Cincinnati Bengals. We'll talk about that

(09:14):
as we go in hour number one. But the NFC, Austin,
you could make a case for the Seahawks. You could
surely make a case for the Rams. You can make
a case for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. You can make
a case for the Detroit Lions. You could make a
case for the Green Bay Packers. The Bears are six
and three. You can make a case for the Philadelphia Eagles.

(09:34):
I just feel like there's a lot of seats at
the table in the NFC, and I don't know how
that shakes out. Who is your who is your top
dog in the NFC? Right now? I still lean towards Detroit, Okay,
that's who I think. By the way, then we talked
about this a little bit yesterday. Detroit had one really

(09:57):
subpar offensive performance in a loss against the Kings, and
out of nowhere, Dan Campbell's now calling place for the
vikings for the For the Lions.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
I don't know if I would say it was one.
There's been concerns about the efficiency of their offense and
disconnect for a while. I mean it's even early on
against the Bengals, they weren't the best. Those problems carried
over to the Chiefs, and you know, the Tampa game,
they just kind of ran away with it. But following
along with some of the people in Detroit that's been

(10:26):
bubbling for a little while with their offensive coordinator and
Dan Campbell, at his credit, said you know what, I'm
going to take care of this.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
But I think there is a path that you can
make arguments for Super Bowl contenders for the Eagles, the Seahawks,
the Lions, the Bucks, the Rams, the Packers, all out
of the NFC for sure. We'll tie that back to
the AFC as we go.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
I think today the two best teams in the NFC
might be Tampa and Seattle. That doesn't necessarily mean they're
going to be the last one standing. Tampa's dealing within injuries,
uh ye, Seattle obviously in that division is difficult. I'm
not buying Philly as the best team in the NFC.
I don't think that they are especially offensively, but I

(11:11):
mean the margin you know between those tiers very very thin.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah. MLB, they got their awards coming down this week
throughout the week. I believe in the cojuur of the years. Tonight. Yeah,
last night they announced the Rookies of the Year, Nick
Kurtz from the Oathlymics and the Sacramento the Braves catcher
Drake Baldwin. Yeah, so there's your Rookie of the Years.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Do you remember when Nick Kurtz hit a four and
ninety three foot grand slam off of Scott barlowep I
was launched.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Afore mentioned Scott Barlow. You and I talked Barlow a
little bit today. I like Scott Barlow. Patnar Doozy, he's
in the crosshairs today. Do you have the audio? So
Patnar Doozy. Game Day is going to Pittsburgh, and you
and I talked about this before the show. Saturday is
not going to be a terrible weather game. But that field.

(12:08):
I always go back to Hinesfield, That's how I know it.
But the field in Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh plays on the same
field as obviously the Pittsburgh Steelers. It's garbage as someone
who played there in college. That field is awful as
it is. They're big complates about that field for twenty
five years. Or the Panthers will play and host college

(12:30):
game Day. They're going to play Notre Dame on Saturday,
and then on Sunday the Bengals will play against the Steelers.
Where does game day set up for a game like that?
I don't know, but the remark from Pat Nordoozy took
me back a little bit. I believe. I don't know
if the question is in this audio or not, but
I believe he was asked about, you know, winning this

(12:51):
game and what it means, because it's not tied to
what they're doing in the ACC. He was asked if
it was a must win against Notre Dame.

Speaker 5 (13:00):
Is a must land for this team?

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Comes to something absolutely not. You know, it is not
an ACC game.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
I'm laf glad you brought that up.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
It's not an ACC game, you know.

Speaker 6 (13:09):
I gladly get beat one hundred and three or one
hundred and ten to ten in that game.

Speaker 4 (13:14):
They could put one hundred up on us and I.

Speaker 7 (13:16):
Was going the next two after that, but it can
Our focus is on on Notre Dame.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
And they getting his big wins in cham Did did
he just say I gladly get beat one hundred and
ten to ten. Yes, And you could always tell when
something is a story because you could immediately hear people
all start typing.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, and he realized afterwards, yep, what he said, and
he's like, but again, our focus is on Notre Dame
and getting as many wins as we can.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah. Just a bad, bad look.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
I mean, he's not necessarily wrong when it comes to
the ACC, but you should never go so far to
one side that you're thinking, oh, yeah, we can when
you know we can lose by one hundred and we're fine.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
They control their own destiny at Pittsburgh, take the pressure
off of you a little bit. They are five and
one in conference, so is Virginia and Georgia Tech. But
down the stretch Pittsburgh has to play number ten Notre Dame,
at number seventeen Georgia Tech, and then home verse number
eighteen Miami. So if they win their last two, like
Nordoozy said, they will play for an ACC title. Easier

(14:20):
said than done. With two teams in the top twenty
after a top ten matchup this weekend, does.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
This like, is that kind of like a subtle shot
at Notre Dame? I think so for not being in
the ACC.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
I do think it is a little bit okay, which
I'm okay with. What else do we have in today's
day and age. It really doesn't matter now.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
Previously, you know, under a previous college football playoff, I
think it did matter for Notre Dame to get into
a playoff into a conference. Nowadays it doesn't benefit them
to do so.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yep. Lastly, segment one, we get the awesome chance to
talk about sports and try to have as much fun
as we do every single day. What we do would
not be possible without sacrifices that so many people have made.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
And on a day like today, we celebrate the veterans
on Veterans Day, the brave men and woman who have
served our country with I mean, you can go courage
dedication given they're all so that we are literally able
to enjoy the freedoms that we have, which is one
of them on this show, which is having fun and

(15:27):
talking about sports every day. So thank you to all
the veterans out there, any veteran that listens to this
show or comes across this we are certainly appreciative of
you on Veterans Day and every other day as well.
We need a break, well said. When we return, let's
dive back into Joe Burrow conversations that we had yesterday

(15:47):
and the likelihood of Joe Burrow coming back and playing.
We'll start with that. We'll add your phone calls five one,
three seven, fifteen thirty. It's Sincy three p sixty thanks
to Skyline Chile on the Home of the Bengals, ESPN
fifteen thirty.

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(16:29):
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Speaker 1 (16:32):
This is Football in the NATI, brought to you by
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Speaker 2 (16:45):
Oh Yeah, Football in the NATI Welcome Back Sincy three
sixty ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station thanks to Skyline. Jillie.
All Right, the big news yesterday was obviously Joe Burrow
returning in a limited to practice. His twenty one day
window is open. But it's not just about the twenty
one day window. As we learned yesterday Austin from Jay

(17:07):
Glazier and hearing Joe Burrow himself, there's a expedited timeline
that Joe Burrow has set and a goal that I
think has remained very clear to him. And if you
heard at all, Austin carried it at the end of
the show yesterday. It bled over a little bit into
the Tony and Mo Football Show, but Joe Burrow was
asked about, you know, the importance and how much it

(17:28):
would mean to him to get back and play on
Thanksgiving against the Baltimore Ravens, and Austin, I felt like
the conviction in which he spoke about that that's the
goal he he wants to start against the Baltimore Ravens
on the road. The question remains, and I think the

(17:49):
biggest pushback yesterday. You see it everywhere. Joe Burrow doesn't
play defense. So what's the point. It's a team that
has scored thirty eight and forty two and back to
back weeks and they've lost. It's a team that's three
and six with the season melting away. They got to
go to Pittsburgh where they're a four and a half
point underdog this week. The New England Patriots, who are
arguably the hottest team in the AFC, come into town

(18:09):
the week after and at three and six. If they
lose the next two and they're three and eight, does
it really make much sense to bring Joe Burrow back?
My question would be, Austin, if they beat Pittsburgh, does
Joe Burrow try to play against the New England Patriots.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
That's the thought that I have the way I look
at everything, and the more I've thought about it and
listen to Joe talk yesterday, I think the whole thing
is if they beat the Pittsburgh Steelers, he will play
no matter what on Thanksgiving. If they lose to the
Pittsburgh Steelers, he will push to play against New England,

(18:52):
I think. And if they don't lose, if they don't
win either of those games, he won't play at all.
But basically, if they are to go one and one
over the next two, then Burrow will do everything in
his power to play on Thanksgiving. That's my guess because
as was talked about yesterday and Joe said, the only

(19:13):
real path to the playoffs that we have is to
win the AFC North, correct, And those games are incredibly important.
And let's say they do beat Pittsburgh on Sunday. Let's
say that happens, and let's say they lose to New
England like we all expect them to be to lose.
So then they would be four and seven with six

(19:35):
games to go, three of which are AFC North games.
We would be talking again about can the Bengals go
on one of these runs when reel off five six
games in a row, that could get them back to
the playoffs. That I think is the internal hope. Now,

(19:57):
does any of this change the fact that they have
an awful de No, it doesn't, But I think that's
got to be where their mind is at when you're
trying to do anything to find a path back to
the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Yeah. I again, this to me, it's hard because if
this team were coming off performances like they had against
Denver in Minnesota, then you're like, all right, Burrows back,
let's push this thing into overdrive. The fact that they
had just lost two games in a row, giving up

(20:28):
thirty eight and for scoring thirty eight and forty two.
I get it. I get the pushback of what's the
point it doesn't change the defense. Maybe there are things
over the bye week that they have identified that they
think will make a legitimate, legitimate difference to the defense.
Maybe there is, I hope so, because if they can

(20:50):
get just incrementally better in a couple different areas, then
maybe you're talking about a team that, with the offense
to firepower, can push a stretch run like they went
on last year. But there's also the part of the
injury to Burrow that I think will be the most

(21:13):
fascinating part about this is because we've talked all along
in Burrow's recovery that what Joe Flacco has seemingly unlocked
is helping the running game because he's got the ability
to go under center and even had taken it a
step further. And you know, if Joe Burrow can have
Joe Flacco around to maybe push the idea of how

(21:35):
he can go under center and help in that sense,
maybe Joe Burrow would want to do it more. The
worrisome part to me is the tow, not when he's throwing,
because I was I was a little surprised Austin when
they showed video of him yesterday. In practice, he moved well,
looked very normal, not a noticeable limp. I didn't even
think he would have cleats on. Yet he had cleats on.

(21:57):
He's moving around in stretch lines, he's throwing the ball,
and as a quarterback perspective, I don't think that it's
the throwing that's going to be the concern because for
a right handed quarterback, you're driving off your right foot.
That's not going to bother him. But the thought for

(22:21):
me of Joe Burrow trying it all to line up
under center, and if you can imagine a right handed
quarterback lining up under center, they pivot with the right
leg and then you're going to push off with the left.
That to me is where I think it would become
an issue for Joe Burrow. Is he going to be
able to consistently go under center, flip his hips and

(22:42):
drive off the inside part of that left foot. That
to me would be a question mark, which then gets
us right back into the dilemma we had. This offensive
line is not as good at a shotgun as they
are under center. There are still holes on the offensive line,
The defense still isn't good. Is it worth it at
that point if they lose the next to Austin I

(23:06):
still think Joe Burrow is clamoring to play. I'm sure
he'll clamor is it the job of the organization if
they're three and eight and essentially mathematically eliminated, is it
the job of the organization to say, we hear you,
we see you, but you are not playing this year.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
I think when you think about what is best for
the franchise, it is not playing Joe Burrow number one.
Those games essentially become meaningless and they have struggled to
draft as it is, So if you lose those games,
all it does is help you get a better player

(23:48):
in the draft. Secondly, you still have two rookies starting
on your offensive line, and Dylan Fairchild and Jalen Rivers,
and they're going to get every opportunity to start over
the course of the rest of the season, and you
really don't want Burrow to have any sort of re injury,
whether that's to his toe, or otherwise going into the offseason. Now,

(24:11):
I want Joe to play. I'm sure the Bengals want
Joe to play. I'm sure Joe wants to play. But
when you think of it through the lens of what
is best for the betterment of the franchise, putting him
out there in meaningless games, yep, that doesn't.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Qualify, especially with so many questions you've got to already
figure out. You've got so much to figure out on
this team. Do you really want to be trying to
figure out if you have all the answers on the
O line while still putting Joe Burrow back there.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
I also think Joe understands that possibility, because he said
he was asked I think by Dan Hord and others
about the wins and losses and you know, the variables
that go into it. And I think he also understands
it's a real possibilit if we lose these games that

(25:01):
I don't get to play at all.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
I applaud Joe Burrow. I love everything about who he is.
I love his work ethic, the desire to not only
get back, but to completely blow away the time frame
that many people have been given. And I think the
peelback that Jake Glazier gave of the mindset of Joe
Burrow and how he wanted to get back. I have
so much respect for that as someone on a smaller

(25:28):
scale who's went through multiple injuries and know the mental
toll just as well as the physical that it can take.
I applaud Joe for wanting to be back and be
back so quick, But you also have to think about
the long term future as well. You've got to think
about this organization, and that, to me, Austin raises a
bigger question and it's something we alluded to yesterday and
I'll go back to it today. You started the start

(25:51):
of this year, the conversation in the AFC was around Buffalo,
Kansas City, and Baltimore. And there are folks out there
that still believe Buffalo can can get things figured out,
that Kansas City is the most dangerous team just because
they've been there so many times, and there are a
lot of folks I believe the Baltimore Ravens are gonna

(26:12):
win the AFC North, that the betting favorite, and they
are going to be a dangerous out in the playoffs.
But the issue that I see across the AFC is.
I don't see Buffalo or Baltimore or Kansas City going
away next year. I still see them as a contender
in the AFC. The things that I did not account

(26:34):
for was Indianapolis being this far ahead of schedule, seemingly
not going anywhere anytime soon. The Denver Broncos rookie quarterback
Bo Nicks not going anywhere soon. They've won seven games
in a row. The New England Patriots rookie quarterback building
the team around him with seven games in a row,
are not going anywhere soon. At eight and two. The

(26:56):
Steelers seem to always have at least some say. Los
Angeles Chargers are seven to three. Seven and three, and
they lost both tackles Joe Alt and Rashaun Slater. They
are still competitive. The Jacksonville Jaguars, say what you want
about the meltdown this past weekend. Under Liam Cohen, I
think are going to be a better team. The Houston
Texans don't seem to be that far off. We've talked

(27:17):
about the fight that the Miami Dolphins have shown. What
I'm getting at the AFC is going to be deeper
and more talented next year. So while it would be
great for Joe Burrow to come back if they're playing
meaningful football. If they're not playing meaningful football, you have
way too many questions as a team on both sides

(27:40):
of the ball to answer so that you can try
to get it figured out and be a competitive team
next year. Because we're still Austin. Are we still operating
in the Joe Burrow super Bowl window? Yeah? Is that
how we're supposed to be operating. Absolutely? I think we're
into a different portion. Is that tougherent today than it
was last year because of now more seats at the
table in the AFC?

Speaker 3 (28:00):
No, it doesn't change like Yeah, of course, more good
teams means it's going to be more difficult to where
you to be where you want to go.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Do you trust that this team can do enough this
offseason to contend for a Super Bowl next year?

Speaker 4 (28:14):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (28:16):
What gives you that belief?

Speaker 3 (28:17):
They have seventy million dollars in cap space and the
best one of the best offenses in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
How much they would they have fifty plus in cap
space last offseason? M hmmm? Did nothing? Fair? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (28:29):
I mean fair, But I'm not going to just say okay,
they can't do it at all? I have seen them
spend money appropriately. I have seen them draft players that
can be helpful. I've seen them turn it around quicker
than I expected. I'm not going to just say they
can't do it. Have you seen am I overly confident

(28:50):
that they will know. But I don't think it's impossible
to think that this team is right back in the
playoffs next year. Well, I don't mean the plump time
winning a Super Bowl. I agree, you got to get
to the playoffs first. I don't think it's out of
this realm at all to say that now it does
feel like they're far away from contending, just because it
doesn't feel like there's been any development on those young

(29:12):
players on defense. But I do feel like Dylan Fairschild's
a hit. I think Jalen Rivers is trending in that
direction as well. What Trey Henderson, how that situation plays out,
remains to be seen. But when you have seventy million dollars,
and even if you do spend twenty five of it

(29:32):
on Trey, you still have a path to be able
to repair your defense. I think, especially through the draft,
I get that there's plenty of reason to doubt their
ability to draft I have one hundred percent agree with you,
especially on defense. But I'm not going to say a
team with an offense that's this good with these quarterbacks.

(29:54):
We haven't even talked about restructuring Burrows deal, which is
still on the table to open up even more cap
space at seventy million. I have no reason to believe
that they can't get right back in the conversation.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
My only concern is, regardless of the money, who's making
the decision, They've not drafted well. They have failed since
going back to Carson Palmer. When Carson Palmer got paid,
they were thirty three and forty six after he got
paid one playoff appearance and lost. They were thirty three

(30:28):
and forty six after Andy Dalton got paid one playoff
appearance and lost. They're twelve and fourteen after Joe Burrow
got paid. They've yet to be in the playoffs. There
just hasn't been a track record of building this roster
under the current regime with Duke Tobin and Zacht whatever
whatever hand Zach Taylor Marvin Lewis had and that as well,

(30:48):
there just hasn't been any indication that they've been able
to build a roster after paying a quarterback.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah, and listen, it's not going to change. Zach's not
going to get fired. Duke's not gonna get fired that
So I mean, we can yell and bitch and moan
at the Brown family and put up posters and protests
and do all this stuff.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
It's not going to change. I don't think though.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
They've opened up the money, sure, but they still play
a role in this, and they are decision makers and
it's their franchise and it would be up to them
to decide what to do with Zach and a Duke.
And based off of the history, if you want to
follow off what you've been saying, it's not likely that
they'll make a significant change. And so based off of that,

(31:34):
you have to look at, Okay, what do they have
and what is the potential path to returning to the playoffs?
How can they potentially learn from the mistakes that they
have in the past. They've already taken a little bit
of a different process in keeping guys like Jamar and Tea,
And yes, it costs them more money than it should have,
but they've kept those guys. They've listened to Burrow, They've

(31:55):
done a really like the plan on paper makes a
lot of sense how they've tried to figure it out
in the draft. It just hasn't worked. So I look
at it through that lens of Okay, what are the
indicators to what the plan is and how is it possible?
Where's the path for them to get competitive again? And
I see it through that free agency, I see it

(32:17):
through that salary cap. I see it through a deep
defensive draft class coming up this year, and I think, Okay,
that's probably the best possible path.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Now.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
Is it guaranteed to work. Absolutely not. We've seen them
screw it up many times. But I can't sit here
and just pound the table for people to get fired
and it's not going to happen, and without trying to
look for solutions elsewhere, And I don't care what happens
in the rest of the AFC. That shouldn't change your standard, right,
Like you should still be doing everything in your power

(32:47):
to turn your team into a contender, and you should,
but are making your team.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
More formidable tons?

Speaker 10 (32:54):
Right?

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Sure, but that doesn't change the way you act like
you should be making your team one of those to
begin with. You know, Indianapolis, Kansas City be damned, Buffalo
be damned. You should be doing everything you can to
make yourself one of those teams.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yeah, and the at my core issue is last year
we saw history from Trey Hendrickson, Jamar Chase, and Joe Burrow,
and they had a ton of money, they had the
draft picks to address the defense, and we went from
one of the worst defense that we talked about in

(33:28):
the league last year to potentially one of the worst
in the history of the NFL. That to me, that
does not scream if there's not a change at GM,
if there's not a change at how they addressed the
process of identifying talent and developing it, How would one

(33:49):
lead to believe that they're just going to figure it
out when they've just failed to do that last year
when everyone said the offense is so good, just get
a middle of the pack defense, and they not only
failed to do that, they went in the complete opposite
direction with where this defense has been.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
Well, I think my biggest excuse me argument to that
would be that we had that same feeling in twenty twenty.
They drafted a quarterback. He immediately got hurt. You're thinking, Okay,
they've screwed this guy up again. How can based off
what we've seen in the past. They actually turn this
around and they hit multiple times in free agency, they
did enough in the draft, and they were in the

(34:26):
super Bowl the next year. So I understand, you know
where everybody's coming from. Everyone wants to now use money
as an excuse. I don't think money is at where
at the point where money can be used as an excuse.
I and and how are we supposed to go about
being a Bengals fan or talking about this team if like,

(34:48):
they don't fire They're not going to fire the coach,
They're not going to fire the director, player personnel. So
what are we supposed to do? Just complain about that
all the time. No, but have to be re realistic
in expectations. Okay, so I can have a standard. A
standard can be different than the expectations. I mean, it's
it's when you call them out when they don't meet

(35:11):
the standard. And I think a lot of people did
this year. I don't think anybody felt like they did enough.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
Now.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
I said multiple times I thought their run defense would
be better. Hasn't been great. I thought marginally the defense
would improve, and I bought some of the al golden stock.
Unfortunately that hasn't worked out for me. But now I'm
looking at it saying, Okay, well, how do they fix this?

Speaker 2 (35:33):
That's a hard question. I mean we we've had conversations
about a handful of players that you would keep going forward.
That's how depleted this roster is and how much of
an overhaul it would need. I again, you go into
every offseason, how can you position yourself to win a championship?
There are just teams that have done it the right
way and we've not seen that since Joe Burrow has

(35:55):
been paid what he got paid, and now that's an
uphill battle without I use the term equity a lot.
There's not a lot of equity in how this roster's
been built. It's the same way we talk I talk
about the Reds. I want the Reds to win a
World Series. I want the Reds to be competitive. That's
the standard. They have failed to meet that standard. But
that doesn't mean you go into an offseason and think

(36:16):
can they You know, I'm not going into the Reds
offseason saying, well, can they just be over five hundred
next year? I want to go into an off season
and find a way to field a team that can
win the NL Central and win a World Series, right,
but it just feels further away now than it has
to me in recent years with the Cincinnati Bengals. We're
late for a break, We'll get a break, we'll get
back on track, and we've got some NFL awards we

(36:37):
didn't get to yesterday. The second half of the season
is underway. Let's get a couple NFL awards as we
go as well. Joe danimill join us one o'clock on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
You've been listening to Football in the NATI on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. From
the locker room whispers to stadium roars, He's got it
all Moeger. Today at three pm on ESPN fifteen thirty,

(37:10):
Blind Lou.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Welcome back cent three to sixty thanks to Skyline Chili.
Thank you for listening. On ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.
Joe Daniman will join us at one o'clock your talkbacks
after that our three Scott Saderfield out of a bye
week speaking to members of the media. We'll hear it
from Scott Saderfield. You'll hear from Rick Walls, executive director
of the Reds Museum and Hall of Fame, and Mullagar

(37:39):
will check in from Oakley Greens. We'll also spend some
time with college basketball in our number three as well.
To get back on schedule, we'll take a quick break
in just a moment when we come back Austin. Can
we give away some awards at a little over now
to the halfway port of the NFL season. Sure, let's
do some awards when we return. How we view some

(38:00):
of these award races in the National Football League. Will
finish up our number one next on the home of
the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 11 (38:09):
First down in ten Green Bay, thirty six for Philadelphia
shotgun stamp Victor visby pack The pass Hurtz goes Hall
marching spiral down the middle, leaping catch of the goal line,
touchdown hat the goal line.

Speaker 12 (38:23):
Defon Tay Smith.

Speaker 13 (38:26):
Beautiful pro heavily covered a thirty six hard strike and
the Eagles have scored the game's first touchdown in the
fourth quarter, Smith leaping high and bringing it down down the.

Speaker 4 (38:40):
Middle of the field.

Speaker 14 (38:42):
It was the perfect play call on first down after
a long play, Packers thinking run. Eagles come with the
play pass deep post to Devonte Smith. He's as good
of a deep ball contested catch.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Receiver as there is. He left uppoort like gazelle. It
was graceful and beautiful, a gazelle, graceful and beautiful. It
was a good throw. It was a better catch from
Devonte Smith. Eagles win ten to seven. Monday Night Football.
That's our call today. Thanks to our friends at win Schulers.
Their four delicious cheese spreads pair well with literally anything

(39:19):
you may have for your next holiday get together or
your sports watch party, whenever it may be. Win Schulers
is right for you. Make it a win Schuler's holiday
with their four delicious cheese spreads. We teased us a
little bit yesterday. We've got Joe Daniman coming up the
top of our number two. Let's give away some awards

(39:39):
as we see them. Where the NFL season sits right now, Austin.
Let's start with your MVP of the National Football League
as who Jonathan Taylor Indianapolis Colts. I know it's you know,
this is what I think it should be, not what
I think. What will happen?

Speaker 3 (39:53):
I'm sure a quarterback will win the award. Yeah, but
Jonathan Taylor and what he has brought to that offense
MVP to me. He's been absolutely ridiculous. The statistics speed
for themselves eleven hundred and thirty nine yards. He's been
a touchdown machine. He has at times put Indy on
his back, and he's also doing that on a team

(40:16):
that's winning football games. I respect that so much, But
because it is a quarterback driven league, I am going
to go with a quarterback who's been around a long time,
but he's playing I think his best football. Four touchdown
passes in each of his last three games, zero interceptions.
He leads the NFL in touchdowns by five. He's got

(40:38):
twenty five. The next closest is twenty. He's also only
thrown two interceptions. The touchdown to interception ratio for Matthew
Stafford has been ridiculous. I think he's playing the best
football in his career and he's on a team right
now that is also winning and has his team set
for a Super Bowl contention season. I will give MV

(41:00):
to Matthew Stafford to skip ahead my Offensive Player of
the Year, although Jackson Smith and Jigba has been awesome.
My Offensive Player the Year would be Jonathan Taylor for
everything you just mentioned Austin.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, and Jackson Smith and jigba Is who I picked
for mine.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Obviously leading the National Football League in receiving yards already,
he's got over two hundred more yards than Jamar Chase does,
which is kind of hard to believe. He fits in
perfectly with that offense. Clint Kubiak has done a great
job with Sam Darnold. I think Seattle might be the
best team in the NFC, as I said earlier, and
that defense, that environment, they'll continue to win games. I

(41:41):
think Jasn will play a big part of that. I
think he wins Offensive Player of the Year. Who's your
defensive Player of the year, Miles Garrett again, Yep, it's hard.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
You just go back.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
You can make the argument he's the best player in
the National Football League.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
It's I think it's even hard to do what he
does when he's on a terrible team, and that's his
choice to be on a terrible team, but to continue
to bring it week in and week out. Leads the
league in sacks, leads the league in tackles for losses,
he does everything. I think he's the most dominant player,
as you just mentioned in the sport.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
I will say this about Miles though, really for the
entirety of his career, with the exception of maybe two seasons,
the Browns have had a good enough defense. There have
been players around him that certainly help. Now he's still
the focal point of any plan against a Cleveland defense,
but for years they've had good corners and good safeties

(42:39):
and that makes his job a little bit easier. But
I think the longevity and just the continual production from
him is incredibly impressive. Offensive Rookie of the Year for me.
I actually said this before the season. He was plus
two thousand at the time. Amecha Igbuka yep is the
offensive rookie of the year. He has thirty fifth in

(43:00):
the NFL in receptions, thirty fifth in the NFL in receptions.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
He's caught forty passes. The incredible thing about what he's
been able to do out of those forty catches, he's
top ten in yards and he's top ten in touchdown receptions.
He slides into an offense that has been without Mike
Evans and Chris Godwin. It's been without the running back
White for much of the season. And he has put

(43:27):
Tampa in a position as a rookie to pick up
right where they left off. They're going to continue to
continue to get healthy. I think Tampa's a legit contender,
and I think Buka has a lot to do with it.
He's my offensive rookie of the Year.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Still can't believe there are four pass catchers taken ahead
of him in the draft, and that includes Travis Hunter.
I mean, I got to watch a Mecca Buca every
single week pretty much of his college career, and I
knew this dude would show up and immediately have an
impact in the NFL. He fits perfectly into that offense
and obviously gets to learn from a couple of the

(44:00):
greats and Chris Godwin and Mike Evans, but you know
his ability to produce, and they've built so much of
that offense around him, no doubt.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
A Mecca.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Who is your defensive rookie of the Year right now?
I'm big on the Seahawks, so I'm gonna stick with
the Seahawks. I'm gonna say nick Emon Worrie safety out
of South Carolina, a guy that we talked about a
little bit leading up to the draft. When it comes
to the Bengals as a potential pick for them. He's
been wonderful. If Seattle's defense continues to play the way

(44:31):
that it has, he'll certainly be in that conversation as
the rookie of the year. I'll keep the theme on
players we talked about leading up to the draft. He's
forced to fumble, he's intercepted a pass, a couple of
tackles for a loss, third on his team in tackles,
and he's playing for the defending He's playing for a

(44:53):
team in Philadelphia who is putting themselves right back into
the position to win another Super Bowl. And I look
at Ghat Campbell, I look at how much we talked
about him going in and to slide in on a
defense that has so much leadership, Zach Bond, Cooper, de
Jen Reid, Blanken Ship opposite him at safety, the big

(45:13):
guys in the middle. I'm so impressed. I thought he
was great last night, and getting a chance to watch
him in a standalone game, I think g Hot Campbell
has a legitimate argument when all this sudden done the season,
to be the defensive rookie of the Year.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Two more, who's your comeback player of the year? Oh gosh,
I didn't think about this. I'll give you my there
you go. Yeah, I'm gonna go. Christian McCaffrey. Okay, Christian
McCaffrey is blowing away statistical numbers even for him, and
he's just going to be relied on more and more
down the stretch of this season. Christian McCaffrey's my comeback

(45:49):
player of the year. Here's your coach of the Year,
Mike Rabel. Yeah, there's a lot of good ones on
this list. Shane Steichen can be up there. McDonald with
the Seahawks can be up there. But to me, it's
the culture in which Mike Rabel has created so quickly
in New England that just the guys play hard for him,

(46:10):
they play so well for him. I am going to
I'm I'm with you. We're in agreement, Mike Rabel right now.
The coach of the Year. That's our awards. As we
get into the second half of the NFL season, Joe
Daneman stands by from Fox nineteen. He joins us next
on the Home of the Bengals ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports station.

Speaker 8 (46:31):
K Y Cincinnati.

Speaker 15 (46:33):
Make us the number one pre sent on your car
radio and on the free new and improved iHeartRadio ad
Free never.

Speaker 8 (46:38):
Sounded so good. ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Hey, it's Mallager.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
The leaf is Tony Pike, since he three sixty about
Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in part by Cincy Shirts Cincy
Shirts all sincey all day. This is ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
All right, welcome in. It's our number two, since he
three p sixty the Tuesday edition. Thanks to our friends
here at Cincy Shirts. Tuesday our number two. Let's get
right to it. From Fox nineteen. Our good friend Joe
Daniman joining us right now.

Speaker 16 (47:14):
Hi, Joe, Tony, Tony Tony and Audie E. How about
the Burrow bomb man on Monday?

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Unbelievable, Dana Boy, unbelievable. That yeah, that is where we start.
Joe Burrow is back. Joe Burrow wants to play. He
circled Thanksgiving. Austin and I were just talking about it.
Wouldn't surprise us if he tried to play against the
New England Patriots next week. All of that being said,

(47:42):
if they don't take care of business against the Pittsburgh Steelers,
should he be playing?

Speaker 16 (47:48):
Boy, this is the best talk radio sports debate material
you could come up with. I think they've got a
two week window here to win one of these two
games for Joe Burrow to come back on Thanksgiving. I
don't think there's a scenario where he plays against the
Patriots and you can clip this and rewind it and
tell me I'm an idiot this time next week. But

(48:09):
for a guy right now who's just throwing routes on air,
is not doing the full practice, full go running, cutting, start,
stop that kind of stuff. Just yet, I have a
hard time believing in ten days you can start the
game plan for this guy to be your starting quarterback
in what would be twelve days. So I think the

(48:30):
New England game is out, But again, tell me I'm
wrong in twelve days, So that gives the Bengals two
weeks to win one game to feel like they've got
a shot in the final six games. So that's the
runway for this team is to either upset Pittsburgh or
beat New England here in Cincinnati to get Joe Burrow
back on the field. And I think if they go
zero to two, my personal opinion is don't play him.

(48:55):
If they lose both of these next two games, you.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Know as someone who's there a lot, as someone who's
around on this team, and I know Bie weeks are
a little bit different. Was this something that was on
your radar or did this take you by surprise? Yesterday
as well.

Speaker 16 (49:08):
Very much by surprise. I kind of had it in
the back of my mind that a mid December return
to games was on the table for him and that
meant maybe opening the twenty one day window in about
two weeks. So when we were setting up for Zach
Taylor yesterday in our weekly interview as being the TV
partners with the Bengals, the Bengals media relations director came

(49:30):
in and said, did you see the news? And in
my mind, the news went about ten different directions. What
could this be? I hadn't opened my email yet to
see the Bengals had released that Joe Burrow was opening
his practice windows. So that was dropped right on me
right before we talked to Zach, and that changed that
conversation pretty quickly. So, yeah, didn't see it coming this soon.

(49:51):
You know, we watched the progression of Joe inside the
locker room every week. We would see him make progress.
It was the scooter, then it was the hard cast,
then it was the walking boot, and then the last
couple of weeks he saw him walking around in normal
walking shoes and he looked fine walking. But you know,
it's a different thing from walking to playing football. So

(50:14):
to see that timeline as accelerated as it is, what
fifty two days since the surgery to getting back on
the practice field and throwing passes, it's pretty remarkable. I
think it speaks to who Joe Burrow is and what
he's about. And not only obviously the talent and the
ability on the field why the Bengals invested in this guy,

(50:34):
is also the character and the makeup and everything he's about.
So we shouldn't be surprised how quickly he got back,
but just to see it and to think about the timeline, certainly,
I thought this was a good two weeks away before
we'd see this.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
We had a conversation on the show yesterday about just
setting tangible goals for the second half, and yes, you
want to come out and say, yeah, there's still a
chance to make the playoffs, and I hope they make
a run. I hope they get into the playoffs. I
hope they become what they were last year in a
dangerous team that you don't want to see in the playoffs.
If that's not the case, what do you look at

(51:07):
as tangible goals, especially on the defensive side of the ball,
going into the second half of the year.

Speaker 16 (51:13):
Well, it's interesting because now they do have a tangible
goal winning one of these next two games to get
your quarterback back and maybe try to recreate some of
the magic they had last year when they won all
those games down the stretch. So that's tangible goal number one.
Because when you come back from the bye week and
you have eight games left and you aren't sure when
your quarterback's coming back, and you have these really five
hard games against good be playoff teams in a row,

(51:37):
it kind of feels daunting. It kind of feels like
it's you know, where do I even begin to try
to show some kind of improvement. Well, now you have
a tangible goal of either beating Pittsburgh or beating New
England to get your quarterback back. And look, this isn't
for sure Joe's coming back on Thanksgiving. I think we're
all reading between the lines and the long pause that

(51:58):
Joe had yesterday when asked if that's the target date
and he paused, and he paused and he said, we'll see,
and I think we could all kind of read between
the lines on that one. So that's tangible goal number one.
Tangible goal number two for me is just establishing some
roles here, right Because the Bengals cleared house in their

(52:19):
linebacker room. Logan Golson is now gone. They went to
Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knights several weeks ago. But now
it feels like that the deck is cleared for these
guys to take a next step and they're development not
only as players, but maybe development as leaders on that defense.
Because we've heard multiple times from people inside that room

(52:40):
it doesn't matter if you're a young guy or an
older guy. They just need people who step up and
kind of fit the mold of what they're looking for.
But it's not easy to do when a guy like
Logan and that shadow is in the room. Even though
he was supportive to those two players, just his presence,
I think sometimes it inhibits a guy from stepping outside

(53:02):
and trying to take on that role. So establishing roles
in the second half of the season, I look to
those two players. They also looked to Shamar Stewart, establishing
himself as a difference maker. We haven't seen it yet
from him. But if those three guys can start to
take steps and you start looking to the off season,
building towards next season and having maybe some building blocks

(53:24):
and stepping stones for this defense to rebuild itself, those
are the three players I'm circling in the second half
of the season to see some flashes, to see some developments,
to see their roles start to be formed, so the
Bengals have a better idea what they're building around in
the off season as they try to rebuild this defense
again in another offseason.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Has there been any indication Joe about what could change
or what maybe the Bengals learned about themselves during the
bye week that they feel like they can turn this
thing around, maybe from a defensive standpoint or from a
coaching standpoint. Has there anything kind of been uncovered that
you've been able to get engauge on.

Speaker 16 (54:05):
So yesterday was kind of hijacked by the Joe Burrow news.
So all the conversations we had inside the locker room
were with players about Joe, And it was a limited
time in there because Joe ate up most of our time,
So we only had about twenty twenty five minutes in there.
So those conversations I think will start to happen tomorrow

(54:25):
when we're back at it and the Bengals start their
work for the Pittsburgh Steelers this coming Sunday. So I
think it's an interesting question about what can change. Certainly,
you know, Zach Taylor has said multiple times over his
career that the bye week is used by them to
look internally to see what they can improve on as

(54:46):
a coaching staff, what they can do to better themselves,
and not necessarily looking forward to what opponents coming up
in the week and a half that they have in
between a bye week. So certainly there have to be changes.
What those changes are, I think we'll start to figure
more about those tomorrow when we start to ask those questions.

(55:07):
Just because it felt like yesterday was just what was
just hijacked by the burrow bomb that was dropped on
pay Course State, even all the conversations were centered around that.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
We found out as well kind of got a little
peek into the trade deadline and it doesn't sound like
the Bengals received anything higher than a fourth round pick
for Trey Hendrickson. Hearing those reports and knowing that there
just wasn't a lot out there for Trey Hendrickson. Do
you agree with now, with that understanding, the decision to
keep Trey Hendrickson and not move him for a fourth

(55:39):
round pick, even though you know the injury and the
conversation of him being doubtful this week continues to linger.
Do you think the Bengals did right by holding on
to him if the offer was just a fourth rounder?

Speaker 16 (55:51):
Yeah, I think so. I don't think you can give
up an asset like that for a return as low
as a fourth round or he's worth more than that.
The asset itself is worth more than that. And plus,
if the Bengals truly are having this window and this
timeline of perhaps Joe Burrow returning on Thanksgiving, you still

(56:14):
need a good players, and especially your best defensive player
to have a shot for this thing to look anything
like it did last year. Down the stretch. The Bengals
traditionally don't like to wave a white flag, especially midway
through a season and at three and six, and even

(56:34):
though the record looks like it does right now technically
and you know, just statistically, they are still very much
in it. I understand saying that, you know, comes with
a grain of salt, but they are very much in
it in the AFC North with the shot to do it.
So to give up Trey Hendrickson would have felt like

(56:56):
waving a white flag on the season, saying they're done.
Because I'd argue, if they had Trey Hendrickson on the
field for the Jets and the Bears game in the
fourth quarter, the Bengals likely had a great shot of
winning both of those games. And where would they be
right now? And I understand that doesn't fix all the
problems their defense has, and it doesn't help them win
this really hard five game stretch they have coming up,

(57:17):
but it does give them more cushion if they were
to win those games. So having Trey Hendrickson still on
the roster speaks to me about the understanding this franchise
probably had in the back of its mind of the
Joe Burrow window being available perhaps on Thanksgiving and not
waving the white flag right now. Plus a fourth rounder
just isn't enough. I mean, he's worth more than that

(57:39):
in any kind of return, So I wouldn't do that
trade just based on the asset that Trey Hendrickson is
giving him up for a fourth rounder to me would
seem like just bad business.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
The vibe, the feel around a team. Obviously, you want
to be better than what the record shows at the buy.
But the old in the arm of Joe Burrow, back
on the practice field, being in the locker room, being
around there yesterday, does it feel like this team believes
they have a run in them.

Speaker 16 (58:10):
Yeah, I mean, we'll see. I mean, certainly, the jolt
was real inside the locker room. I mean it was
kind of similar to what we felt when the Bengals
made the trade for Joe Flacco. There was this belief, like, okay,
shot in the arm, a little bit of energy when
they got Joe Flacco. The team's trying to go for
the organizations, trying to give us somebody to win with.

(58:30):
But also in the back of the mind, it has
to be that the offense has not been the problem
here even with Joe Burrow out. Now I understand what
Joe Burrow means to this team, not just physically tangibly,
but also what he means to them and the psyche
of the team that he can help buoy this team

(58:51):
a little bit more just by his presence on the
field and give them a better shot of winning, even
if the offense hasn't been a problem. So yeah, I
think there's life. I think there's a jolt. It's to
be seen how much difference that makes against good teams.
I don't know if that helps him come one o'clock
in Pittsburgh. I don't know if that helps him come
next Sunday when they play Drake May and the New

(59:11):
England Patriots here at pay Course Stadium. But if you
go back to what we were saying earlier, and I
think both of you guys agree with me on this one,
that the Bengals have to win one of the next
two for Joe Burrow to have any kind of reason
to come back and play this year. And to me
not to steer the conversation back to Burrow, but I
do want to make one more point here on the

(59:31):
Joe Burrow debate whether he should or should not come back.
And people can argue, and I'll listen to the argument
that you know, these guys are paid a lot of
money to play football. That's their livelihood that they're living.
And people can argue. Listen, if he's healthy, the Bengals
are paying this guy to play football, he should go
play football. And I'll hear that. But for a team

(59:55):
with so many questions they have to answer in the
offseason about their defense, about possibly the leadership of the team,
the last thing they need is questions about the health
of their quarterback and putting their quarterback back out there
the final five or six weeks for a season that
if they were to lose these next two games is

(01:00:17):
most likely too far gone. The risk of putting him
back out there to get him hurt again and then
have another off season of questions, and they've done this
multiple times now with Joe Burrow, that's another question they
don't need to pile on for a team that already
has so many to figure out this offseason. That's why,

(01:00:38):
in the back of my mind is win one of
the two next games or bust. But that's coming from me.
I'm not in the organization. I'm not making these decisions.
That's made by, you know, the people who are writing
the checks and the people who are coaching this team.
But that's why to me, it feels like got to
win one of the next two to even entertain the
idea of having Joe Burrow back.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
Well, we talked about how they traditionally don't wave the
white flag. That would be a waving of the white
flag more than any other time. Is just the enormity
of Burrow and that potential enough to make them fully
wave it.

Speaker 16 (01:01:15):
But that's waving the white flag. Austin. At three and eight, right,
you know, that's eleven games into a season, and if
you have three wins, I think it's time then to
understand where you are and be smart about Yeah, three
and six, halfway through the season, I think it's too early,
at least their mind to wave it. But I think

(01:01:35):
if you get to three and eight, eleven weeks into it,
and then you're looking with the bye week, you're looking
at week thirteen, I think at that point you've had
enough time to try to show that you're good enough
to make a playoff run, and you're good enough to
support Joe Burrow being back on the field and make
that decision to put him out there as opposed to

(01:01:57):
taking the decision out of his hands and doing right
by him and by doing right by him or doing
right by the organization of the future of this team.
And you've made the point to Austin and I think
smartly on your podcast of talking about that the first
window of Joe Burrow's Super Bowl window. That that one's closed,
they have to now transition into another window of building

(01:02:23):
around Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and T Higgins and
looking to retool this team. And whether that means more
massive changes on defense or changes in leadership, that's to
be seen. But I think if you get to three
and eight, it's time it's time to wave the white
flag and call.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
It a season, Joe, to switch gears for just a moment,
you know, a bye weekend for the Bearcats and for
the Bengals. FC Cincinnati got a huge win. High school
playoffs in full swing NBA action. We also welcome back
college basketball. What went down at the Cintas Center last
night was not great. That was a thirty point game
with just over two minutes remaining, Xavier one on a

(01:03:01):
run to make it a nineteen point loss. But what's
your take right now on that team playing at the
Centas Center currently?

Speaker 16 (01:03:10):
Boy? Oh boy? Okay. So I've lived in Cincinnati for
most of my life, I've covered this Xavier program for
more than twenty years, and from what I've seen through
three games, it's the worst Xavier team I can remember wow,
And you know, you can go back and you look

(01:03:30):
at numbers and it's you know, like, okay, you're you're
not making that bold of a statement. And I get
that they haven't. They I went back and looked they
haven't had a season with less than ten wins since
like the early eighties. And you know, I wasn't. I
was alive, but wasn't watching college basketball at the time.
So as long as I've been watching college basketball just

(01:03:51):
to see where this program is, and I think there
has to be there has to be a little bit
of a grace period, right with a new coach with
Sean Miller. But at the same time, it's not like
Richard Patino got the job super late and couldn't go
out and find talent. You know, I get it. It's

(01:04:11):
one of those things. I had a conversation today with
someone and it was but both things can be true that, yes,
Richard Patino got into this, you know, in a situation
where maybe one hand was tied behind his back. But
also it's true that he had time to go out
and find players. So it's trying to figure out is
it because of the coaching change, or is it because

(01:04:33):
in the nil era, Xavier basketball might be in a
position where it's a bit of an uphill battle going
against some of these other teams in Power for conferences,
where where Xavier just doesn't have the same kind of
playing field that these other teams have. And we're so
early now in the nil era that that that's something

(01:04:54):
that remains to be seen. Because you look at what
David did last year. They went to the end of
the Big Tournament a game, so it's not like they
can't compete in the nil era. But what you're seeing
now is what I believe is a team that I'm
not sure can win three or four games in the
Big East. I'm not sure it can win ten games
on the season. And then you juxtaposed that and everything

(01:05:17):
done here in Cincinnati is juxtaposed against the rival and
what you see is God and what you see has
put on the floor so far this year looks like
a team that should be in the mix for an
at large bid this year, should be able to come
to Sintas Center and beat Zava this year in the
Crosstown Shootout, has a chance tonight to get to three
and zero with a good win against the Dayton team

(01:05:39):
who's also two and zero. So what I saw last
last night was the worst Davor team that I've seen.
I can say that confidently. And then you look at
what it looked like in the final ten minutes that
the crowd size people had left. It got ugly and
there's a chance they could get even more ugly as

(01:06:00):
the season goes on. You look at their schedule in
at Iowa on Friday night, that that's not a good
place for Dabor to be after coming off an embarrassing
loss against Santa Clara on their home floor.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
I do have to ask in rebuttal. After the first
two wins of the season, we saw Richard Patino take
to his social media and give postgame grades great a,
the anthem, the student section, the uniforms, the offense, the defense,
the rebounding. We've yet to see that today from coach Patino.
Do you expect a report card even after losses? Because

(01:06:33):
when you open the door, you gotta handle things the
same way. You can't just give report cards after wins.
Do you expect a grade sheet from Richard Patino today?

Speaker 16 (01:06:42):
I think Richard Patino's reading the room a little bit.
That tweet might not play well today after the way
his team played last night. Yeah, I don't expect one.
To your point. Yeah, man, right, you gotta be able
to go through it in the good times and the
bad times. But that little spot right there on X

(01:07:03):
where you can push the button and you can write
a reply right in those mentions, I don't think he
wants to deal with that today. It's very dangerous.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Have you considered maybe doing something like that for Fox
nineteen or maybe your appearances on this show?

Speaker 16 (01:07:16):
Listen, I've said many times, how great would it be?
How great of a bit would it be if if
Jeremy and I after like a final quarter did like
the postgame interview.

Speaker 8 (01:07:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:07:28):
My read on the Redding game was it was awesome.

Speaker 17 (01:07:31):
You know.

Speaker 16 (01:07:31):
I think I referenced Tony Pike two or three times.
I went back to the augiest joke. I got to
get some new material. Yeah, it would be amazing. I'm
afraid of what I would would say in a postgame interview.
So that's why I don't blame some of the Bengals
defensive players from walking away from the TV cameras after
that performance against the Chicago Bears, because I think about

(01:07:54):
some of the stuff I would say about myself after
shows sometimes. Yeah, I kind of get where athletes are
coming from.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
You guys are back at it this week. What do
you got coming up with Fox nineteen.

Speaker 16 (01:08:04):
Let's go Bengals now Newport on the levee tomorrow night,
six o'clock. We have Jalen Rivers locked in trying to
get his fellow rookie guard Dylan's Fairchild to come with.
Still working on Dylan to see if he can make
it tomorrow night. You guys are going to kick out
of this. So I'd been working on Joe Flacco and

(01:08:25):
trying to get Joe Flaka on the show. And listen, man,
when you're at a quarterback, you know, life's busy. I
know the guy talks about eating alone and you know,
being lonely here in a city without his family. But
life's busy, especially when you're trying to play catch up
on a team you've only been around for a month.
So I came to him yesterday and you should have
seen the poor look on the guy's face when he
realized he had to let me down. He's like, listen, man,

(01:08:48):
Like Joe, I get it. It's cool. You don't have
to do it. You've got things to do. And he's like, yeah,
I know, I put out the persona I'm the lonely
guy and I just need things to do. I'm like,
it's cool. Man. The way he left that, he said, listen,
if I change my mind, I'll.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Let you know.

Speaker 16 (01:09:04):
Okay, got it. Deal, I'll put that on my calendar
as a reminder to check you with you in about
three weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
I'll take it. Danaman, you're the best man. Thanks as
always for your time, and we'll catch up again next week. Yay, yay,
d boy, Joe Danaman, Fox nineteen the best This is
since he three sixty hour number two thanks to Sincy shirt.
Your talkbacks next on the Home of the Bengals ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 8 (01:09:29):
Now your chip tuckbacks.

Speaker 12 (01:09:31):
Go and grab your phone and record a message. Just
hit that microphone. Please keep it clean and don't mean
and those sprinkle sprinkle drift, drip drift.

Speaker 18 (01:09:43):
It's that time for tunkbacks.

Speaker 19 (01:09:46):
It's stuck favorite party since e three sixty Austin buddy,
play those talk backs on your screen and please drive
out to sabotage it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
All right, No sabotaging allowed. It's talkback coming out of
the bye week here for the Cincinnati Bengals and Cincinnati Bearcats.
You'll hear from the head coach of the Bearcat, Scott Saderfield.
To kick off the third hour of today's show. We
also have Rick Walls from the Reds Museum and Hall
of Fame is going to join us, along with Mowagar
all coming up and our number three but first year talkbacks.

Speaker 4 (01:10:19):
Follow up yesterday, and I think I might have missed something.

Speaker 15 (01:10:21):
Did anybody specifically ask Burrow if he thought the offense
was being run differently under Flacco and if he had
any thoughts on that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
I don't believe he was asked.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
He was asked about Flacco and the offense Basically, yeah,
I don't know that he's been asked, like specifically about
the difference, but said he's, you know, enjoyed watching it
and learning from Flaco and all that. I also don't
think there's a huge difference in how the offense has
been run other than as you mentioned earlier, maybe a
little bit more of that under center play action.

Speaker 9 (01:10:54):
Tony.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
It was nice meeting you, your wife and your sister
the other day when I hardfired Bike all of our
heartstead break.

Speaker 17 (01:11:03):
But then they hired Tony back correcting their mistake.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
Jeff Query, Darnay Scott, Carl Dickens, he Rose, Peter Barnes.

Speaker 19 (01:11:13):
David Klingler, Kevin Case, Vanharnharn.

Speaker 20 (01:11:18):
David Cleaner, and Kevin Katesevrn Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
I respected Kevin Case for hard reference man.

Speaker 16 (01:11:28):
Happy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Yeah, you you got to meet multi personality Mike. What
was that like?

Speaker 4 (01:11:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
It was awesome. My uh, my sister really for the
first time since we had UH my nephew's benefit, UH
was able to get my mom and dad to watch
Roman for a couple hours. We went to UH to
Tony's here in UH in Cincinnati, and as I was
sitting down, a gentleman from a table over gets up
comes across and introduces himself as multi personality Mike. There

(01:11:55):
with his family having a birthday dinner. Wow was it
his birthday? It was his birthday?

Speaker 21 (01:12:01):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (01:12:01):
Congratulations time congratulations but happy birthday. Congrats on another year
around the sun.

Speaker 20 (01:12:07):
Very cool Veterans Day twenty twenty five to all of our.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
Veterans and current service members. Thank you, it is not enough.
We love you all.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
USA and Melissa, what do you think.

Speaker 12 (01:12:21):
God bless America?

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
All right? Melissa, Welcome, Happy Veterans Day.

Speaker 16 (01:12:28):
Everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:12:28):
Shout out to all our veterans. We appreciate you so much.

Speaker 20 (01:12:31):
Boys in the Orange and Blue on them around two,
go win.

Speaker 4 (01:12:34):
The whole thing.

Speaker 20 (01:12:34):
The city desperately needs a championship. Burrow back in practice,
that's pretty cool.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
I still wouldn't risk him. I wouldn't play him. I
know I sound like the gritch.

Speaker 20 (01:12:42):
But if he gets hurt again this year and he's
out for even longer next year, I don't know they'll
be playing for anything either, But I know Joe's a competitor,
So take care of everybody and Veterans Day on.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
I could not imagine if Burrow comes back and gets
hurt with an injury that would put him out some
next year. I mean things would.

Speaker 22 (01:13:02):
Jeff just wanted to wish everybody a happy Veterans Day,
especially those that have served our country. I am a
veteran as well, so definitely wants to make sure that
we get the word out. Take care of each other,
call people, check on them. Very important. As far as
the bear Cats go tonight, looking at a five point win,

(01:13:26):
we'll go eighty three seventy eight, Go Cats.

Speaker 21 (01:13:29):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
That would not be a cover for the bear Cats
at five and.

Speaker 21 (01:13:33):
A Half's it going on here? Daria apod dress? When
I'm leaving a talkbacker calling and I've been busy. Anyway,
how'd you want a vacation? I want to go, But
I went down Florida. That decorat deck I not your
favorite hangout. Oh my god, you went down to the

(01:13:56):
Hall of Fame. Hopefully the wife and kids had.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
A good time. You got a bunch of yes.

Speaker 23 (01:14:03):
Thank you, Hey, Austin, Hey, Tony branded from Indy. I
hope you guys enjoy my top backs. But anyway, as
far as Lebron James is concerned, I could care less.
I mean, I think it's time for him to retire.
I don't wish nothing bad on him, but I could
just care less. As far as the Bengals are concerned,
I'm thinking about picking them over the Steelers this week.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
I think they might have a shot, believe it or not.
As far as Brian Kelly's.

Speaker 23 (01:14:28):
Concerned, well that's what happens when you sign these big,
huge contracts.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
But I know they're not happy with him, so they
might as well take them for every dime.

Speaker 4 (01:14:36):
Brian.

Speaker 24 (01:14:39):
All little shout out to kid Countingham and the Pistons
Xavier Battery. Luck next time, I'll tell you the last
two Bengals losses.

Speaker 4 (01:14:51):
Just crushing.

Speaker 20 (01:14:53):
Man.

Speaker 24 (01:14:54):
Oh bad for my blood press. Like I said, shout
out to miuncle Claire, Vietnam war veteran, just all around
great person.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Absolutely shot out to Clarence Austin. Let me ask you
one thing about Kate cutting.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
I was okay, I was gonna say, we didn't get
to this at the first se.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
So you look at the box scores, like, man, Kate Cuttingham,
he had a night last night. He had forty six points. Yeah,
he shot forty five times forty five field goals. It
was fourteen of forty five. He played forty five minutes,
so he got one shot per minute, forty five shot

(01:15:32):
attempts to get forty six points. Is that impressive? Not entirely.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
I mean they did play an overtime, so that had
a role. That's forty five shots forty five. It's like
Kobe shot the ball fifty times to get sixty in
his final game.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
Yep. But you knew why that was. You knew why, Yeah, exactly,
there was a reason for that.

Speaker 7 (01:15:54):
I don't know if impressed no as always flex and
rep in the city and catch studding out here.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
Hod's on it? What up, Tony?

Speaker 7 (01:16:01):
No dayton is going down tonight. You guys are going down.
We're about to beat them. Brings off you boys by
twenty I'm already predicting it. Santa Claire standard. Wow, Zavier,
you got dog walk? Don't worry well? You see about
to do you guys who put that least on you
walking around Norwood? We'll say how a real dogwalk looks
you see bout thirty over zerea coming soon, the return

(01:16:22):
of jab nine.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
I'm optimistic. Let's go offense. Let's get this win. Oh boy,
now I'm nervous. That's already starting between you see and Xavier.
That makes me nervous.

Speaker 25 (01:16:31):
Hey Austin, Hey Tony Paul from cleaves here.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
I just wanted to give you something.

Speaker 25 (01:16:35):
A veteran who active duty, discharged, retired, or reserved is
someone who, at one point in his or her life
wrote a blank check made payable to the United States
of America for an amount up to and including their life.

Speaker 4 (01:16:50):
That is an honor.

Speaker 25 (01:16:51):
There are way too many people in this country who
no longer understand that fact. I want to say happy veterans,
stay to all the present, past and future veterans.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
Thank you, well said, Yeah, I'm one hundred percent with
Tony on this.

Speaker 26 (01:17:04):
To act like or insinuate this team as close to
winning anything or going to the playoffs this year is
insane and full hearted. They're about to miss the playoffs
for the.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
Third year in a row.

Speaker 26 (01:17:15):
They've only won a playoff game in five seasons out
of fifty eight seasons. They've never won a super Bowl,
only nine playoff wins in their entire history. And you
want to talk about a standard, you know standard here
and then to think that they're all of a suddenly
going to get it right is like following a rainbow
and trying to find a pot of gold. It's ain't
a sci fi movie.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
I'd try to I'd go for a pot of gold
Right now.

Speaker 27 (01:17:35):
I'm going to pull a mic here and say, very
well done, reasonable, calm, well thought out discussion on the
future of the Bengals, living up to the promise you
showed when you were an hour long show at noon
that we would get that kind of thing that we
weren't getting from the national shows.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Thank you, thank you. Okay, I appreciate if Mike is
still mad at me.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
I don't know if he listens to our show, but
obviously with it being Veterans Day, we think of our
guy Mike. But yeah, Mike is still mad at me.
He hasn't called the show in a couple of weeks.
Just because I gave a little bit of criticism to him.
He called in and told me to kiss his butt
and hung up. But I miss you, Mike. I hope

(01:18:24):
you're doing okay. You're still welcome to call.

Speaker 26 (01:18:27):
And also you can get mad and say, you know,
say I'm negative and say something more, which I'm sure
you will, but it's the truth and you know it.
And it's dialogue like that that creates the insanely coopy
fans we have in the city with unrealistic hopes until
they get new ownership or new people that aren't confident

(01:18:50):
at their job. This is what the fate of the
Bengals will be. There is no standard.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
Well, you get to choose what your standard is like.
There are some people who their standard is very low.
They will support the Bengals no matter what. They'll put
on their Bengals jerseys, they'll go to every single game
and they'll just have fun doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
There are others like you who have it at a
very very high standard.

Speaker 3 (01:19:17):
And your standard is people being removed from their job
or ownership moving on from the team. That's your standard.
Everybody has a different standard for what they hold their
team to. I will say this like, I get where
you're coming from, and you have every right to be jaded. However,
I don't think, like I've said multiple times, this team

(01:19:38):
and the defense specifically doesn't have to go from number
thirty two to number one for them to be good.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
But we said that last year. I know, and that's
that's totally fair.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
They didn't do enough, and they kind of told us
reading between the lines last year that they thought they
got unlucky. Well, this year you find out it's not
a lack of luck, it's a lack of talent.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
How do you adjust?

Speaker 3 (01:20:03):
Then it's and again my goal is to go as
far if I'm the defense, and I don't think it's
out of the realm of possibility to say, or if
I'm Duke Tobin, can we go from thirty second to
twenty second?

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
It's on defense. It's I think one of the hardest
things that I think about this job is being a
die hard, loyal fan of a team and wanting them
to succeed and wanting to believe that, but also trying
to find the reality that it's been. I think that's
hard to cross sometimes because I'm a huge fan of

(01:20:35):
the Bengals and and I want them to win a
Super Bowl, but you also have to to have the
reality of what it's been. I think that's a hard
line at times.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
And it's also you know, I have to understand from
our perspective, we can't get up here and shout and
scream and yell at ownership.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
We just can't.

Speaker 3 (01:20:50):
It's not something that we're able to do, and that,
you know, affects the conversations that we have as well.
You know, somebody said to me both about life here
at this company and sports as well, as you can't
care more than your bosses do, you can't care more
than the people above you do. And that can be debated,

(01:21:12):
but there are times where as a Bengals fan, it
feels like the fans care more than the people running
the team do, including Duke Tobin, and that's a difficult
reality to deal with. If that's something you agree with,
I don't know that I necessarily agree with it, but
that is something that Bengals fans have felt over the years,

(01:21:34):
and how you manage that as a fan is difficult,
Like how do you how do you justify watching or
listening or tuning into this show or buying a Bengals
jersey for Christmas? If it feels like you care more
than they do. That is and again, the Bengals have
been met with opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to change

(01:21:57):
that narrative. At times it feels like they have. At
times it feels like they haven't. This is another crossroads
I think for this franchise.

Speaker 12 (01:22:07):
Wonderful news about Joe Burrow. Good for him, kudos man
for being a quick healer dedicated to his job. But listen, man,
the Bengals don't need you right now. Joe Flacco has
been bawling out, the defense sucks, get a couple stops,
and they've won these games. Sure, dude, don't do something stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Mmm.

Speaker 16 (01:22:34):
It's the Lord Lort.

Speaker 26 (01:22:38):
The Bengals white jerseys, the Bengals black jersey, or the
Bengals orange jerseys.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
I'll start the black. I always like the black look.

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
I will.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
I'll bench the white I'll cut the orange. I start
the orange, I benched the white, I cut the black.

Speaker 26 (01:22:58):
Yeah, I'm on this one to thank or insinuate that
this team is anywhere close to winning anything in the
near future, or he.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
Already left that talk back.

Speaker 5 (01:23:09):
Sorry for the overreaction on the Joe Burrow bomb, but man,
just don't want this guy aggravating and already aggravating injury.

Speaker 12 (01:23:22):
Get will soon.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's an abundance of comps
caution you have to operate with when you have an
injury like Joe Burrow.

Speaker 17 (01:23:30):
Happy Veterans Day to all my fellow Ken, especially Mike
in La Vietnam veteran, and my Wildcats are going to
stump loser Mill tonight.

Speaker 4 (01:23:43):
Oh go big Blue.

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
Let him know Ken, where y at Louisville? Where yat Louisville.

Speaker 28 (01:23:51):
Hello, this is James from unincorporated at Butler County, Austin.

Speaker 10 (01:23:55):
I mean, the whole.

Speaker 28 (01:23:58):
ESPN radio community across the country knows of your attitude.
You're You're spiteful and mean. You're not very friendly when
someone asks you how you're doing or what you're doing
as a means of a greeting. You're short and snippy with.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
Them, so you need to improve that.

Speaker 12 (01:24:15):
And Mike, Mike's a good man and you shouldn't have
said that.

Speaker 3 (01:24:20):
I didn't say anything mean to Mike at all and
said it wasn't Mike's best call. And then he called
and said, kiss my butt.

Speaker 29 (01:24:29):
Good afternoon, boys, Danny from Dell Hyde. I can't take
credit for this. I've seen it on the old Twitter
machine a couple of days ago, but I think it's
probably the hardest Bengals version I've ever seen. Start, bench, cut, Jamar, Chase,
don't do this, AJ Green, Chad Johns.

Speaker 3 (01:24:45):
I start Jamar, I bench Chad, I cut AJ I
do too. And the reason Jamar gets the start is
that he's the perfect mix of the other two. Yeah,
and Chad at his peak was the best receiver in football.
I mean four years in a row leading the AFC
and receiving yards. Best feat ever buy a wide receiver. Yeah,

(01:25:08):
Jamar is the best receiver that's ever played for the
Bengals already thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Yeah, he's at my top. Okay, that was our last one.
I'd start him over anybody. Let's take a break, let's
come back. It's kind of amazing. This series of life
that we're in. Can we share the jingle that you
got today?

Speaker 4 (01:25:30):
Yes?

Speaker 30 (01:25:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
Can we use that as our football in the Nattie?
We sure can.

Speaker 3 (01:25:34):
Austin was was sent a jingle woman by the name
of Sammy Riggs. Sammy, who is a singer songwriter, put
together a Bengals parody song and she emailed it to
me this morning and it's lovely. Shout out to Sammy,
So we're gonna play it next.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
We'll play that next on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports
Station thanks to CINTI shirts.

Speaker 31 (01:25:58):
Jamar Chase plays here ONPN fifteen thirty, the official home
of the Cincinnati Bank.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
Batty brought you in part by bud Light and by
Oakley Greens on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of
the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 2 (01:26:13):
Football in the Natties. Shout out to bud Light. Shout
out to Oakley Greens as well. We thank them for
everything that they do here for us. Listeners are such
a big part of this show, Austin. At anytime we
can get a listener or someone that goes out of
their way to create something and then ask us to
share it. Most times we oblige can we get to

(01:26:36):
the parody song we can. This is from Sammy Riggs
and you can. It's spelled sam I Riggs Riggs and
she's on Facebook and she makes these parody accounts.

Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
I'm sure she's on other social medias as well. But
she sent this to me yesterday. And this is about
Joe Burrow, oh, returning to practice for the Bengals.

Speaker 19 (01:27:05):
He walked in through the revolving door love and none
in is you of fun?

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
Oh? Oh, where'd it go?

Speaker 8 (01:27:16):
You didn't believe in me?

Speaker 16 (01:27:19):
Calls now to you?

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
If his rows fixed, then a convinced a healing crystal
commn to the events.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
But Thanksgiving we could say.

Speaker 8 (01:27:35):
Who take too you.

Speaker 29 (01:27:39):
Ooday woo woo.

Speaker 2 (01:27:49):
Hi Sammy Ooo wow.

Speaker 3 (01:27:58):
I mean that's in the incredible stuff right there. Well,
we'll play it again. But she she wrote the line
there about the crystals. Now, Joe Burrow said he he
doesn't know if the crystals helped them, but you never
really know. It can't hurt, and he of course posted
pictures of his crystals on his Instagram story. How funny

(01:28:21):
would it be if Bengals players report to practice today,
or they report to the locker room today, or tomorrow
and in each defensive player's lockers Crystal courtesy of Joe Burrow. Hey,
maybe you guys can turn this around one more time.
Sammy Riggs, he walked.

Speaker 16 (01:28:43):
Into the Loving Doo Love.

Speaker 10 (01:28:48):
Is you fun?

Speaker 27 (01:28:50):
You didn't believe recals Now to you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
It is Joey fast unvince a healing crystal command events.

Speaker 12 (01:29:06):
By Thanksgiving, we could say they.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Too you come on bye Thanksgiving? We could say who

(01:29:34):
day to you?

Speaker 3 (01:29:37):
So well done, Sammy, incredible and listen, I'm not opposed
to perhaps prayer being a part of the Bengals turnaround.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
Prayer, crystals, divine intervention. I've opened all of it. Listen,
We're in this together. Every if, if if the Bengals win,
we all win. Bengals eat, we all.

Speaker 4 (01:30:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
So if it's crystals, if it's divine intervention, if it's
a sweet melody, whatever works, we're involved. We're in for Sammy.
Thank you, thank you. Seeing that was well done. Yes,
that was awesome. Are we taking one more break? We
are one more break. We'll get to our to tell

(01:30:21):
you a little bit more information about Sunday and then
Scott Saderfield to join us, or he won't going. He's
not going to join us, So I can call him
see if he might say, if he answers, but uh,
we'll play Scott Saderfield's weekly press conference, old calling coaching
our number three on ESPN fifteenino. What's he doing today?
Snatty sports, He's not tweeting.

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
You've been listening to football in the Nattie On ESPN
fifteen thirty. The official home of the Cincinnati bengalsy Cincinnati.
To make us is Tony Pike. Since here sixty about
Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in hard by Penn Station, East

(01:31:04):
Coast Subs, handcrafted hot real subs, fresh cut fries in lemonade.
It's all about good taste. Penn Station, East Coast Subs.
Order on mine today. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports Station.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
Here we go one final hour on this Tuesday afternoon,
sincey three sixty thanks to Penn Station. It is the
return of the Cincinnati Bearcats as well this week, coming
off a buy of their own, and the Bearcats will
play host to the Arizona Wildcats at Nippert Stadium. That
game kicks off at noon on Saturday. You see right

(01:31:45):
now listed as a six and a half point favorite,
of course, if you see can take care of business,
if BYU can take care of business on Saturday night,
those two bookend the Big twelve schedule. You see, Arizona
is a a noon kickoff and BYUTCU is a ten
to fifteen kickoff. If both of those teams win next

(01:32:07):
week would create a winner, move on scenario with a
chance to control your destiny to play in a Big
twelve championship game, presumably against Texas Tech. Going into the
bye u se had their worst performance of the year
in a loss at Utah where all things seemingly fell apart.

(01:32:27):
They were banged up, they could not get off the
field defensively, offense, turned the ball over multiple times. Special
teams wasn't great. It was their worst performance as a whole.
The big question now, can this team rebound and get
back to who they were because last year Melagger's alluded
to this as well five and two and things fell
apart down the stretch. Does one loss send this into

(01:32:50):
a spiral or does the bye week allow this team
to get their confidence back and put their best foot
forward against Arizona on Saturday. Here's what Scott Saderfield had
to say, just a bit a go.

Speaker 4 (01:33:03):
A week.

Speaker 32 (01:33:03):
It was come at a great time for us after
six straight weeks of conference.

Speaker 4 (01:33:07):
Games, and I thought we had a great by week.

Speaker 32 (01:33:10):
I mean, the big thing about last week was, you know,
really a reset for us and recover mentally and physically,
and I thought our guys did that.

Speaker 4 (01:33:19):
We you know, we cut back on practice last week.

Speaker 32 (01:33:21):
And allowed them some time to heal up and then
and also at the same time worked on some a
lot of young guys and let them play.

Speaker 4 (01:33:28):
And I thought we had a great time with that.
That was fun.

Speaker 32 (01:33:31):
And so it's a good week, all the while knowing
that we had Arizona coming up and and then obviously
breaking them down, then had an opportunity to watch them
play Saturday and and get ready for this team, a
really good football team. Coach Brent has done a great
job there this year. I think obviously a couple of
things stand out by them. But I think, first off, defensively,

(01:33:52):
new defensive coordinator this year, and they've done it. They've
done an outstanding job, you know, mixing up fronts of coverages.
The guys are playing hole hard, they're playing physical, creating
a lot of turnovers.

Speaker 4 (01:34:04):
You know, I think when I first front turned on
the film.

Speaker 32 (01:34:06):
That was probably one thing that stood out and everybody
talks about for feed And he's a great quarterback, has
done it. I think he started thirty one game, so
he's done it for a long period of time. And
incredible player. Puts pressure on the defense. You know, some
really good wide outs, good running.

Speaker 4 (01:34:21):
Game as well.

Speaker 32 (01:34:21):
I think maybe the running game gets overshadowed by by
the passing game. But I mean they finished the game
off against Kansas by running the football in the last drive.

Speaker 4 (01:34:30):
So a really good football team.

Speaker 32 (01:34:32):
We're excited about, you know, the opportunity that you're sitting
here playing in the middle of November, you know, tied
for first place in the Big Twelve, and and so
we're excited about that opportunity because all our goals are
still sitting in front of us. You know, obviously, got
to have a great week of practice this week, and
our preparation will determine how we go out and play
on Saturday. Yeah, I mean, I think it's more than
just Brendan. I mean, I think it's everybody on our offense,

(01:34:54):
you know, I mean it starts with the coaches. We gotta,
we gotta, you know, put our players in positions so
they can go make plays. You know, we have to
do a good job of staying on the on the
sticks and you know, not getting off off schedule, and
that's that's a big piece of it, you know. And
then ultimately, guys, you have to block good up front,
we have to make you have to run good routes
and throw and catch. I mean, so to me, it's

(01:35:15):
it's everybody has to go out and execute at a
high level. And you know, when you're playing really good
defenses like Arizona's, you have to execute. If one or
two guys are not executing, then you're gonna have a
much more difficult time moving to football. And I think
we've seen that from Arizona over this season. I mean
that they've they've done some great things on defense and
shut down a lot of good offenses. Well, I mean,

(01:35:37):
you know, obviously, I think Sawyer was six five and
Noah's you know, shorter, guy's under six foot and Noah's
got a lot more ability to move with his feet.
I mean, he does a great job of buying time
in the pocket scrambling. You know, he's a scramble to
throw guy. Also can run.

Speaker 2 (01:35:55):
I mean again that last drive last week.

Speaker 32 (01:35:57):
I think I think you hit two Q draws in
that drive over ten yards apiece to go down and score.

Speaker 4 (01:36:03):
So he's a much more dynamic run runner.

Speaker 32 (01:36:07):
But that that can throw, I mean, I think, you know,
I think he ended up tyeing for the most touchdowns
in Arizona football history. So I mean obviously speaks volumes
about how how good a player he is. They sit
they really, I mean, I know people say this, but
they easily could see it be here at eight to
one right now. I mean they're up ten against BYU
with four minutes to go in the game, and had

(01:36:27):
that game won quite honestly, as I mean, not obviously
by you did a great job of pulling it out,
but if one little thing goes up, Arizona's winning that game.
And then also I thought they played great against Houston.
You know, Houston ends up, you know, kicking a last
second field goal to beat him, you know, So you
can't get any tighter or closer than that to sit
there being eight and one right now.

Speaker 4 (01:36:46):
The only game that they really wasn't in was the.

Speaker 32 (01:36:48):
Iowa State game, you know, and that was an incredible
crowd at Iowa State white out I mean it was
an unbelievable atmosphere for Iowa State.

Speaker 4 (01:36:55):
So yeah, I think they are underrated at six and three.
I mean I got here, I got it.

Speaker 32 (01:37:00):
Outstanding football team they got they have team speed, they
can run, they're physical, they have good plans in all
three phases. You know, so that's the recipe for success. Yeah,
I mean I think that's obviously a big part of
their success is creating the turnovers. And they've taken care
of the football too on the offensive side, so that
turnover margin, which obviously we all know is a huge

(01:37:21):
stat I think that's why they've had a lot of
success this year. They just do a good job of
their coaches of putting their guys in position to make plays.
They you know, they do a lot of things on defense.
You know, a lot of different pressures. You know, linebackers
are walking up, you know, off the edge, blitzing. They're
not scared of you know, blitz a safety or a corner.
I mean they're gonna they're gonna give you a lot

(01:37:42):
of different looks to try to confuse the offense. You know,
they got some good tacklers. I mean, forty three's are
safety a leading tackler. I mean, he's a really good player.
Number four are middle linebackers and another really good one.
They have some good d linemen that are quick twitched
that can cause problems when they're one on one blocking,
you know. And I think they give you a lot
of different looks. I think you guys mentioned they play man,

(01:38:03):
but they do a lot of things back in the
back end. They'll you know, they'll play quarters, they'll play man,
they'll played three, They'll they'll jump in some different looks
to try to confuse the quarterback. And I think that's
where quarterbacks have gotten in trouble, you know, throwing into coverage.

Speaker 2 (01:38:17):
Dad on Evan Tawee, Yeah, I mean they're.

Speaker 32 (01:38:20):
All improving, getting better, you know. Taywee's I think he's
back to normal now. You know, Evan's making great improvement,
you know, and and you know, we'll see where we're
at a by the end of the week.

Speaker 4 (01:38:32):
But I'm making great improvement.

Speaker 3 (01:38:34):
How important is that run game for you that they're
sticky in past defense, how important will it be to
settle in the run game and get them moving?

Speaker 4 (01:38:44):
Yeah, Well, I mean I.

Speaker 32 (01:38:45):
Think this year, we you know, we've been very efficient
in the run game, and you know, one of the better,
more sufficient teams in the country running the football.

Speaker 4 (01:38:53):
We have to be able to run the football, and
that comes in a lot of different ways.

Speaker 32 (01:38:56):
I mean, you know, it's it's running at the right time,
it's you know, obviously, you know, running a quarterback when
we need to run a quarterback, but also you know,
of trying to create some space where our backs can
have more room to make people miss. And I think
we have to have to be able to mix all
that in. We have to be able to run the football,
control the clock a little bit. Obviously, you'd love to,

(01:39:17):
you know, if we could somehow, you know, have the
ball a little bit more than we've had it in
some of these games and run some more offensive plays,
that would be awesome. But I think for us, it's
just really comes down to execution up front and starts
with our offensive line. They've had a really good year,
but this will be another great challenge for the guys
up front.

Speaker 31 (01:39:34):
Brendan's only been sacked twice. I think that Noah has
been sacked several times. I think they got him five
times in the last game. Do you think you can
get to him or is that when he's dangerous when
he's running out of the pocket.

Speaker 32 (01:39:47):
Yeah, I mean, you'd love to be able to get
some pressure on him, to be able to get him.
You know, I think Kansas did a great job last week,
you know, looking at that film of getting to the quarterback.
Did you mentioned they sacked them five times and they
were back there some more times as well. But he
is slippery. He does a great job of moving around,
Like you mentioned, if you do flush him out, well,
now he's on a perimeter, he's looking down the field

(01:40:07):
and if you lose some cover somewhere, he's gonna make
you pay. So he's a tough guy to cover to defend.
So we gotta do a good job again of mixing
it up, not playing the same defense out there, some
of the same things we talked about.

Speaker 4 (01:40:20):
Try to get him off schedule.

Speaker 32 (01:40:22):
Yeah, you know, I think that's the biggest thing for us,
and you know, and the guys up front.

Speaker 4 (01:40:27):
You'd have a great game.

Speaker 31 (01:40:29):
Goldie went out of the last game. See Okay, Yeah,
he's good. He had you know, a great week last week.

Speaker 33 (01:40:35):
Obviously it's been a while since the Utah game. But
after being able to break down that film, a lot
of some people might be saying, like, is the blueprint
out on the Cincinnati offense? Is there anything you would
have done differently or was that just really well schemed
up by by their defense.

Speaker 4 (01:40:49):
Yeah. I think, you know, there's a lot of things
involved with that.

Speaker 32 (01:40:53):
You know, where we played, when we played how they play,
I mean, it was a lot, you know. I think
they're a good football team. Their their scheme was really good.
We didn't exploit it. Obviously, there are some things we
would do different I think if we if we played
them again, you know, obviously you got to execute better
as well. We didn't execute great, I don't think in
that game, but a lot of they had a lot

(01:41:15):
to do with it, I mean, with what they were
trying to do to us, you know. But and they
got good players, man, I mean, you know, so you
put all that together and I think that's what ended
up happening. I mean, I think offense, we moved the football,
we had, you know, four hundred and some yards, and
we didn't score enough points, you know, with the way
the game went, you know, and obviously it's a team game,
so you got to play good on both sides of
the ball. When you're playing a team like that. But yeah,

(01:41:36):
obviously we do some do things a lot different. But
I also think you're gonna you're gonna do what you do, like, like,
whatever your your scheme is, like, you're gonna try to
do that at a high level.

Speaker 21 (01:41:45):
You know.

Speaker 32 (01:41:46):
I don't think you're necessarily gonna try to do something
somebody else did, and you may maybe lean a little
bit more toward maybe that, but.

Speaker 4 (01:41:51):
You're gonna do what you do.

Speaker 31 (01:41:52):
I think whoever you're playing, Cyrus is second in the
nation in touchdown catches, so obviously the receivers are a
lot better. Back to Joe, do you see are people
just doing things completely different or is it just the
receivers are better than last year so he's not necessarily
the top target or is it combination of the thing.

Speaker 4 (01:42:13):
I think it's a little bit of both of that.

Speaker 32 (01:42:15):
There's been times this year where we've tried to, you know,
call Joe's number and you look into there's two dudes
on him.

Speaker 4 (01:42:20):
You know, it's hard to get the ball to him.

Speaker 32 (01:42:22):
I think the other side of that is, like you mentioned,
I mean, we do have some guys on the outside
that we feel like can win, and they have made
good plays for us this year and spreading the ball
out if you look, if you look at our you know,
distribution of the balls to the.

Speaker 4 (01:42:35):
To the wide house. I mean it's pretty even.

Speaker 32 (01:42:37):
I mean, you know, and then you get you put
Joe in there, you put some running backs in there,
and you obviously want to run the football. So I
feel like our balance as far as that has been
really good this year because you don't, you know, you're
not necessarily can just to try to defend one guy.

Speaker 4 (01:42:50):
You try to find this one guy, then we're gonna
beat you with some other guys.

Speaker 32 (01:42:52):
And I think that's probably the product is why he
didn't have as much production.

Speaker 2 (01:42:57):
All Right. That is some of Scott's sadderfield from earlier
this afternoon down in Clifton talking about Arizona, talking about
the team getting healthy as an important role for this team,
but not to overlook this is an Arizona team that
is close and has been close in a couple of
their losses in the Big Twelve this year, as Scott
Satafel alluded to a road loss at Iowa State six

(01:43:19):
point loss late in which they led against BYU, and
then a three point loss on the road at Houston.
Of course, that BYU loss in overtime. So it's an
Arizona team that has some good wins in the Big
twelve Colorado, Kansas, Oklahoma State, Kansas State. All wins for
Arizona this season. It's going to be a good test

(01:43:42):
for the Cincinnati Bearcats. Let's stick with the collegiate theme.
Let's talk some college hoops when we come back. We'll
recap the Muskies loss last night. You'll hear a little
bit of Rick Patino and look ahead to a big
night on the hardwood tonight, UK Louisville, UC, Dayton and Moore. Next.
ESBN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 16 (01:44:01):
Now your chance to win one thousand dollars.

Speaker 22 (01:44:04):
Enter this measure on ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home
of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 2 (01:44:19):
Welcome back since three sixty ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports
Station thanks to Penn Station. By the way, Penn Station
is an official partner of the Cincinnati Bengals. They are
the official hometown sub of the Bengals. And how about
this promotion On Tuesdays, They're calling them who Day Tuesdays
Penn Station's way of celebrating the fandom and Bengals win.

(01:44:40):
So on Tuesdays, following a Bengals win, Bengals fans can
score a free sub by purchasing another sub using the
promo code who Day twenty four shout out to our
friends at Penn Station. We certainly appreciate them. So like
someone's getting tackled.

Speaker 3 (01:44:56):
I uh, I just look, that was my last night
I had of my skis there.

Speaker 2 (01:45:04):
College basketball, it did not go well for the Xavier
Musketeers last night at home against Santa Clara. They trailed
at the half thirty nine to twenty. That nineteen point
difference stayed throughout the second half, although with about two
minutes remaining, Xavier actually trailed in that one by thirty
points before going on a little bit of a run

(01:45:25):
to finish the game. They were outplayed in every statistical category,
obviously points. They were out rebounded last night. Santa Clara
had more assist they had more steals, they had more blocks,
they had less turnovers. Santa Clara shot at fifty four
percent on the field. Xavier shot at thirty four percent.

(01:45:45):
They were five for eighteen from three to twenty five
of thirty four from the foul line. It was bad
on all accounts last night for the Muskies. And I
don't want to take away anything from Santa Clara because
from what I've gathered, that's a Santa Clara team in
in the Western confer or the uh the w c

(01:46:07):
C with Kenzaga and Saint Mary's that I think can
win some games. All that being said, at home as
a four and a half point favorite, Xavier was bludgeoned
last night. Here's what Richard Patino had to say after
last night's nineteen point loss.

Speaker 30 (01:46:25):
Well, not a lot, not a lot of good obviously,
you know, disappointed in my self that you know, we're
putting that on the floor.

Speaker 18 (01:46:34):
Our fans certainly deserve better.

Speaker 30 (01:46:37):
And I got to look myself in the mirror and realize, like, uh,
we've got a long way to go, and you know,
just told the team and we certainly understand that. I
don't think this is an arrogant group by any means.
I don't think we needed to be humbled, but I
think we realize how hard it's gonna be. We knew
Santa Clara is gonna be a good team. I've obviously

(01:46:58):
got a lot of respect for coach Sendek in the
program and the consistency that he's built that program, you know,
So there's nothing really to it besides like, we got
to get back to work tomorrow. So very appreciative of
the fans, you know, I certainly never want to see
them leave like that. They deserve better, and we've got

(01:47:18):
to be collectively, coaches, players, everybody. We got to be
better because our fan base certainly deserves better than that.

Speaker 34 (01:47:25):
Coach Malik leads to your team in scoring over the
first two games tonight, doesn't attempt a shot in twenty
plus minutes. Was that just something Santa Clarita defensively and
how can you free him up some more?

Speaker 30 (01:47:36):
Yeah, I mean, nobody was very good tonight. Obviously, Roddy
was terrific in the second half. So you know, it's
all connected. It's not just Malik's fault. It's it's screening
to get him open. It's you know, they were picking
us up full court, they were denying Roddy realized that
in the second half obviously, going around guys and getting
to the rim and making plays.

Speaker 18 (01:47:56):
So it wasn't just Malik. I mean, Jovan obviously was
over seven. All was old for six.

Speaker 2 (01:48:01):
So as I said.

Speaker 30 (01:48:03):
Before, like I get, I get to help them a
little bit more and certainly won't get a lot of
sleep tonight and try to figure it out and get
off the mat tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (01:48:14):
When you see the points in the paint number fifty
two to twenty two, what what went wrong the most
in terms of that number?

Speaker 18 (01:48:21):
I mean everything went wrong. Everything went wrong. There was
nothing right.

Speaker 2 (01:48:26):
You know, we just we we just got it.

Speaker 30 (01:48:30):
We got to get back to work in every phase
of it. You know, it wasn't one thing Santa Clara. Again,
they're a good team, but we just kind of let
them do whatever we wanted, you know. So we're gonna
have to do this thing the old fashioned way, and
you know, the only way to do it is not
necessarily to talk about it, but just to pour our blood,

(01:48:51):
sweat and the tears on the bas on the practice
court as best we can.

Speaker 5 (01:48:55):
We got to see mir for the first time tonight.
How long has he been back practicing with you guys
prior to tonight? And how do you kind of see
him fitting in here over the guy?

Speaker 30 (01:49:04):
I mean, he was he was back for he was
doing a little bit of non contact stuff. He went
full kind of go the last two practices obviously a
tough spot to put him in, but what he does
have is he's got athleticism, he's got the ability to
go by guys. That's where you saw Roddy in the
second half getting in the lane, and I think mirror

(01:49:24):
when he you know, he's missed a couple of months.

Speaker 18 (01:49:27):
But I think the more he gets his feet under
him and practice, the better he'll be.

Speaker 34 (01:49:32):
Santa Clara threw the first punch right out of the gate,
and that's kind of the third straight game. You're behind
the eight ball early. How do you get this team
to respond from the jumper? Is that just part of
like you mentioned earlier, fixed it?

Speaker 21 (01:49:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 18 (01:49:44):
I mean that was certainly different than the the other two.

Speaker 30 (01:49:48):
You know, that was they were throwing haymakers for forty
minutes and we weren't responding, so that that wasn't necessarily
a first four minutes thing.

Speaker 18 (01:49:57):
And again I think it's our.

Speaker 30 (01:49:59):
Guys are gonna really lives, Coaches, players, everybody collectively in
our group is going to realize, you know, we got
to fight. You know, there were loose balls that we
weren't getting, there was rebounds who weren't getting, and then
it just compounds you know, and when you play at
this place and you play in front of this crowd,
like teams are going to be ready for you.

Speaker 18 (01:50:20):
And you know, our guys certainly didn't respond the right
way throughout the course of the game.

Speaker 26 (01:50:26):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:50:26):
That's Richard Patino after last night's nineteen point loss to
Santa Clara. The Muskies have to rebound quick. They are
on the road at Iowa on Friday night. As mentioned
earlier today, UK at Louisville is a big one at
eight o'clock tonight, and of course the Dayton Flyers come
into fifth Third Arena that is a seven o'clock start.

(01:50:47):
We'll have more on both of those games and reactions
to those games on tomorrow's edition of sincey three sixty.
For now we shift gears. We bring in another guest
when we come back. Rick Wall, the executive director of
the Red's Hall of Fame and Museum, will join us
to talk the open ballot for eight Cincinnati Reds, Two

(01:51:10):
of them hope to advance into the Reds Hall of Fame.
We'll talk about that and more with Rick next on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

Speaker 9 (01:51:21):
E's Taylor Versus Tumlin in the Steel City. The Bengals
look to toss the Steelers into the recycling bin. There's
a lot I can say about Pittsburgh, but none of
it can be selling the radio. The Bengals slug it
out with the Steelers. Sunday coverage begins at nine am,
stream for free on the new and improved iHeartRadio app

(01:51:42):
or ESPN fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 2 (01:51:52):
Welcome back. It is since e three sixty on ESPN
fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Roller along our number three
Moeger and with kids and just a bit. But first,
uh we uh we we mentioned this last week when
it came out the uh the Cincinnati Reds Hall of
Fame ballots are out. Homer Bailey, Francisco Cordera, Zach Cozart,

(01:52:16):
Aaron Harang, Mike Leak, Brandon Phillip, Scott, Rowland, and Edison Valcez.
And uh there's just so much going on with this,
and the Reds have always done such a great job
with the Hall of Fame. They do a great job
with the museum. So we thought what better way to
pair the two than today by talking with the executive
director of the Reds Hall of Fame in museum, Rick
Walls with everything going on, Red's related, Rick, how are you?

Speaker 16 (01:52:38):
That's great, It's a pleasure to be with you both.

Speaker 2 (01:52:40):
Rick. Let's let's let's discuss that the Hall of Fame balloting, Uh,
the names that came out, the balloting itself. Let let's
start with that. How does this work for for Reds
fans that they're able to cast a vote, and and
and just the process that goes into this.

Speaker 6 (01:52:56):
Yeah, there's been you know, over time. The first Hall
of Fame class was elected in nineteen fifty eight, and
throughout the years, they're not an induction every single year,
pretty much every other year. In the last decade, there's
been some variance to that. So when you take a
look at the ballot and who's eligible, you have to
look at players for the modern player ballot that have

(01:53:18):
played within the last fifteen years. So there's a Veterans
committee looks at candidates beyond fifteen years or more, but
you have to have played at least three years for
the Reds to be eligible. The ballot is created by
our Election Governance Committee. It's part of the Board of
Directors of the Hall that narrow this list down to
in this case, eight players, so looked at a lot
of players got it down to the eighth that they

(01:53:38):
thought that if these candidates were elected, they'd be fine
with going into the Hall of Fame. So the ballot
is created, it's sent out to the fans, to the
median broadcasters, and also to teammates of the players. So
any reds alum who played here three years or more,
we will get the cast to vote. So we really
feel it's important that those three groups are very involved

(01:53:59):
in this process. That the fans have a third say
and who's going in same with the media and the
broadcasters who follow the game so closely, and of course
to the teammates, those that have been around the players
for a number of years and probably can gauge their
success and contributions and achievements a little bit beyond some
of the stats that we see. So that's your modern
player ballot, and we're in the voting period now for

(01:54:20):
three weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:54:21):
Voting period happens now. It runs through November twenty seventh,
and then the two winners that it is just two
players that are selected, those players are announced in December.

Speaker 6 (01:54:32):
Yeah, so the modern Player ballot will produce a two winners,
so two of the eight that are on this list
will be inducted next April. They'll be combined with any
selections that may come from the Veterans Committee. So this
group of about fourteen individuals, it changes every couple of years.
We get new members on the new opinions and they
get to really dive deep into the candidates of players

(01:54:53):
and managers and other executives that were involved with the
organization fifteen years ago or more. And that's a pretty
detailed process.

Speaker 16 (01:55:01):
Two three hour.

Speaker 6 (01:55:01):
Meeting, so that class will be elected as one. You know,
we'll have them all together, Veterans and the modern player
ballot winners next Aprils April twenty four to twenty five,
twenty six, we call the induction celebration. They're on field
ceremonies on the twenty fifth, and then a big gal
it's a fundraiser for the museum on the twenty six
at the Convention Center. So a lot ahead of us now,
but we're encouraging people to vote and take you know,

(01:55:23):
make sure they're vote counts so you can vote once
per day. Pre email address at Redsmuseum dot org and
really just get involved in the process support the Hall
of Fame in your favorite candidate.

Speaker 22 (01:55:33):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:55:33):
It's such a cool process because it's it's the fans
and that's what makes this sport so fantastic, especially here
in the city of Cincinnati. And you think of the
players on the list and Homer Bailey and the no hitters,
and what Coco Cordero was able to provide, and Zach
Cozart is an All Star, Aaron harangu is a starter,
Mike Leak is a starter, Edison Volcz, Scott Rowland, of course,

(01:55:55):
Brandon Phillips and Mike Leak. It is it's it's special,
how well, how special is it for you being around
this organization and with the Hall of Fame for as
long as you have to see players like this recognize
at a level where they deserve to be recognized from
the city and the team.

Speaker 6 (01:56:11):
I think it's extremely important to the fans, it's important
to the franchise and these players, even current players they
are playing the game, to see that we are recognizing
and honoring those who contribute time, their energy, I mean,
their life to Cincinnati Reds and their dedication to trying
to become a better team and bring championships to this team.

Speaker 16 (01:56:30):
We had some.

Speaker 6 (01:56:31):
Players on this list that were a part of some
pretty solid teams. If you remember DN in twelve and thirteen,
great years for the Reds, really really close, but some
fantastic performances, record breaking moments, memorable performances that people probably
you know within the last fifteen years. A lot of
the listeners here have been to those games. They remember
these players and having them have a say.

Speaker 16 (01:56:53):
And who gets in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 6 (01:56:54):
I think it's extremely important. I wish every team would
do this. They don't all have Halls of Fame. Not
every team has a museum, and we're one of the
only to have a large, dedicated museum. And that's just
a tribute to the Reds organization and our staff here
at the museum who is focused on doing what we're
supposed to do as a nonprofit and that celebrate greatness,

(01:57:14):
preserve history, and provide inspiration.

Speaker 16 (01:57:17):
The museum does that every day.

Speaker 6 (01:57:18):
The pillar of all of that, the foundation, is the
Hall of Fame and the election process behind it. Every
player who played for the Reds we celebrate, but these
guys will rise to the highest level and they'll be
in the Hall of Fame. Two of the winners from
the modern player ballot.

Speaker 3 (01:57:34):
I'm curious too about the veterans ballot. You mentioned that
that's going to be announced in December as well. Is
there a rough estimate on the number of candidates that
are being debated with that group or is can it
be one person? Is it going to be multiple? How
do you expect the Veterans' ballot to shake out?

Speaker 6 (01:57:50):
I kind of expect it to be one or two,
but it doesn't there's no mandate, as I could be zero,
the group could walk out without a consensus, but I
feel like they're typically is one that hasn't happened yet,
but there are. You're talking about candidates going back into
the eighteen hundreds, and the purpose of the committee is
to make sure no one has been overlooked. If you

(01:58:10):
are on a modern player ballot and you have to
be out of baseball for five years and then played
within the last fifteen, that means you only have a
ten year period to be on a modern player ballot.
And that also means if we're only doing it every
other year, there's only five ballots that you could be on.
So you can imagine the ballot changing players going off
coming back on, you could be a pretty good candidate

(01:58:32):
but not make the Hall of Fame on the modern
player ballot. And that's where the Veterans Committee can come
in later on and decide, you know, hey, where you overlooked,
is there a real case to be made? You know,
we now understand the game and stats a little bit
better and have a better respect for what you meant
to the game and to the Reds organization. So they
will dive into all of those stats that really are
hard for any one individual to do by themselves to

(01:58:54):
determine if we have a great candidate here, and there
are some good ones still on there, going back to
the eighteen hundreds, the commit he's pulled some great ones
in the past.

Speaker 16 (01:59:01):
And twenty twenty three general manager.

Speaker 6 (01:59:04):
By the name of Gabe Paul went in and that
was pretty special. And Danny Graves, the old time Saves
leader went in. So it's a great committee serving a
great cause then making sure those that warrant election are elected.

Speaker 2 (01:59:17):
It's such a storied organization with a storied past.

Speaker 4 (01:59:22):
Rick.

Speaker 2 (01:59:22):
I know, we're in the off season for baseball and
it's a very busy offseason that seemingly never stops. But
for you guys at the museum at the Hall of Fame.
What do you guys have going on throughout the winner
and how can people learn more or maybe find a
way to visit.

Speaker 6 (01:59:36):
Yeah, this is a great time for the museum. We
are gearing up right now for an event in December,
Carl Deck the Hall. You hear about that more down
the road. Get great chances for our families to visit
the museum and get some Christmas shopping done. But Reg's
Fantasy Camp takes place in January, that, unfortunately for those interested,
has sold out. It sells out in about a week
in May and June the year before the event even

(01:59:58):
takes place, and we are so f focus in on
that and then a RedFest.

Speaker 16 (02:00:01):
We hope to see all the fans.

Speaker 6 (02:00:02):
Out there at RedFest, and just kind of getting everything
geared up for next year is going to be a
fantastic year for the museum. Still celebrating the fiftieth anniversary
this time of the seventy six World Champion Red So
expect a lot of those players in and now the
museum next year. If you were kind of looking at
the museums saying what's going to happen next year. Look
at our events schedule. We're going to have players, alumni,

(02:00:25):
all kinds of events and activities throughout the year, and
Redsmuseum dot org will have that up to date and
active all the time. So hopefully we'll bring in your
favorite player and you get a chance to meet them.

Speaker 2 (02:00:35):
Rick Man, this is awesome, so much good stuff going on.
One more time. The easiest way for folks to find
a way to vote and even learn more about the museum.

Speaker 6 (02:00:44):
Absolutely, Redsmuseum dot org. All the candidates and their bios
are listed there to vote once per day per email
address and learn all about how you can support the
museum membership, and however, just visit the museum. It's a
great place to come to in the off season.

Speaker 2 (02:00:57):
Yeah, awesome, Rick Man, this is awesome. Thank you so
much your time and we we appreciate it greatly. Have
a great, great offseason. I know it's busy for you,
but enjoy it and I hope to talk soon. Thanks Rick.
Thank you. That is Rick Walls, executive director of the
Red's Hall of Fame and Museum, spending some time with
us today. Mo Wager at Oakley Greens will join us
to put a bow on today with quick Hits next

(02:01:19):
on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Hey, it's Mo ESPN.
All right, we got Mo. He's at Oakley Greens. It's Tuesday,
so he's there this afternoon. You could go see Mo,
or you could just listen to him on ESPN fifteen thirty.
He joins us. Right now, let's have Mo.

Speaker 10 (02:01:36):
Well, there's lots of reasons to come to Oakley Greens.
Number one, our favorite bartender, Lauren just brought me a
Coca Cola. Number two, we're doing our show out here,
and that in itself is reason to you know, come
to Oakley Greens. Number three. You can sign up for
the Ultimate Fan Cave where we are giving away a recliner,

(02:01:56):
a TV, a TV stand, an area rug and end
table and number number three. And this only applies you know.
It's Veterans Day to active and retired military. If you
come to Oakley Greens, our producer on site, Drew will
park your car for you.

Speaker 4 (02:02:12):
Wow. Wow.

Speaker 10 (02:02:14):
Yeah, just you have to show, you know, proof that
you're an active or retired member of the military because
it's it's a little chilly. Drew west Ryde Man, we'll
park your car for you.

Speaker 2 (02:02:25):
Shut out to Drew Man, that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome,
really giving back to those who have given so much.
Of course, yes, outside sacrifice, outside of those amazing reasons
to come see you. What do you got coming up
on the show.

Speaker 10 (02:02:37):
Paul Danner Junior is going to be here in the
first hour of the show, and we're looking forward to
that because there's a billion different Bengals issues to discuss. Also,
Pat Noonan will be on the show, the head coach
of FC Cincinnati is going to join us to talk
about the victory over Columbus on Saturday and what lies ahead.
Some are calling this the biggest soccer match ever on

(02:02:58):
American soil. By some, I mean me. As FC Cincinnati
gets set's take on Miami next weekend, Pat's gonna join
us at four o'clock. Our guy, Sean said, the Stats
and Scheme podcast and the Satsan Scheme newsletter is gonna
be with us.

Speaker 2 (02:03:12):
We're looking forward to.

Speaker 10 (02:03:13):
Talking about I'm gonna talk about the Steelers and Ravens
with him, given the fact that those two teams played
this weekend and the Bengals play both over the course
of the next couple of weeks. We'll look ahead to
Cincinnati versus Dayton. The official Udi Flyers correspondent of The
Moegger Show is Drew Wester Heidi and in between parking cars, Drew,
He's gonna preview tonight's game with us. We'll look ahead

(02:03:36):
of Kentucky Louisville as well and try to figure out
what that was that Xavier put on the floor last.

Speaker 2 (02:03:42):
Are you a little disappointed We've not seen the grade
tweet from Richard Patino today. If you're gonna do it
after wins, do you have to do it after a
loss as well?

Speaker 10 (02:03:50):
Yes, if it's if that's gonna be your thing, which
I love it like I do. If that's if that's
gonna be your thing, it can't just be a thing
when you win. I mean, I don't know what he
would grade positively from that game last night. But if
you're gonna do that like you do it, you know,
consistency matters, right.

Speaker 3 (02:04:11):
Yeah, he hasn't been afraid to give out harsh grades
so far, So why wouldn't you do it again when
you lose?

Speaker 16 (02:04:18):
Yes?

Speaker 10 (02:04:19):
Exactly. I mean you know what he could do is
I had a professor once at the University of Dayton.
I took statistics because you had to take one math
class as a calm major, and so I took the
math class. It was stats, and I wasn't very good
at it. And you went to the professor's office to
get your midterm grade. And I went in and he

(02:04:42):
didn't have him posted, but he was sitting in his
office and he looked at me. He goes, what do
you think you got? I go, I don't think I passed.
He goes, I don't think we need to tell you
what you got that And he could do something similar
with the grades for his team last night?

Speaker 2 (02:04:56):
What do you make tonight with with the Flyers and Bearcats?
What do you need to see? Friday night was not
great from the Bearcats. I know Dayton did not have
a great tune up over the weekend as well. What
are you hoping to see walking out of fifth Start
Arena tonight?

Speaker 10 (02:05:12):
Uh, first and foremost to Bearcat victory, because I don't
think that's a given by any stretch of the imagination.
You know, it's cliche, and I keep coming back to it.
I want a firmer sense of the pieces fitting for
the Bearcats. I'd like to see them shoot the ball better.
I'd like to see them assert themselves a little bit
more on the glass, because they they really haven't in

(02:05:33):
either of the first two games, certainly didn't against West Carolina.
I think that's gonna be a little bit of an issue,
but I would like to see that begin to get
rectified tonight. I'd also like to see Seana Bayev look
more like we saw him look in the first game
as opposed to how he played the other night. But
for me, it's it's just a more a better sense

(02:05:57):
of how the pieces are gonna fit as the sea
and moves on. I love college basketball for a lot
of different reasons. One of the reasons is I think
it is the sport where you have the potential to
not look like you did early in the season by
the time we get to the middle of the season,
so teams can and do get better. It's absurd to
hand down any concrete conclusions about any team in November,

(02:06:21):
but let's face it, last year's failures loom over this
team because I think it's being framed the same way.

Speaker 2 (02:06:27):
They have good players, Do the pieces fit.

Speaker 10 (02:06:31):
Let's get an answer in November, and the way you
get those answers are by beating the two name brand
opponents you have this month Louisville a week from Friday,
and Dayton Tonight.

Speaker 2 (02:06:40):
Last night Monday Night football. Not an offensive juggernaut by
any means. Two good defenses in the NFC. I'm looking
at the NFC today, Mo, and you could make an
argument to me that the Eagles can win the Super Bowl,
the Seahawks can win it, the Lions, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers,
the Rams, the Packers can all win the Super Bowl.
Who do you view right now through this week of

(02:07:01):
the NFL season as your favorite in the NFC?

Speaker 10 (02:07:05):
The Los Angeles Rams. I think they have the best coach.
I think right now they have the best quarterback. I
think right now they have a quarterback who would get
serious MVP consideration. I cannot wait to watch Rams versus
Seattle this Sunday, which I think is going to be
a great game. But if there's one team I feel
most comfortable about and have felt the most comfortable with

(02:07:29):
as the season has gone on for two and a
half months, it would be the LA Rams. But the
NFC playoffs, like you might get San Francisco as a
seven that's a fun team. You might get the Chicago
Bears as a seven. That's a really fun team. I
don't know that we could say something similar about the AFC,
but I think the NFC postseason is gonna be wild.

Speaker 2 (02:07:50):
Who's your top of the AFC.

Speaker 10 (02:07:53):
I'll say New England love how they play big Drake
may guy. Mike Vrabel's a great coach. Now, well, he
hasn't been awesome in the postseason. We saw that up
close with the Bengals when they played there when they
were the one seed in twenty twenty one. But the
division is obviously theirs for the taking. I still really
do like the Colts. I kind of keep waiting for

(02:08:17):
Daniel Jones to turn into a pumpkin, but it hasn't
happened yet. They have Jonathan Taylor they can lean on.
New England has a couple of running backs they can
lead on. Trevon Henderson the other day was terrific. I
think New England's the best team right now. I think
if you ask me that question of the month, my
answer will probably be different.

Speaker 2 (02:08:34):
Lastly, I talked to a lot of folks with the
UT Bearcats football and everyone is talking about BYU, BYU, BYU.
What about the BYU game? I listened to Scott Sonderfield
today and you dive into this Arizona team. They got
beat pretty good at Iowa State, but they were leading
BYU by ten eventually lost in overtime. They lost at

(02:08:55):
the Gun to Houston. How much better is Arizona and
then maybe folks locally or giving them credit for and
how much of a test is this going to be
on Saturday coming off a loss and then a bye.

Speaker 10 (02:09:06):
One at Kansas Late which you see did destroyed Colorado,
which you would expect because you know nobody.

Speaker 2 (02:09:13):
Oh, Dion, Dion, Dion, I not as many Colorado.

Speaker 10 (02:09:16):
Fans in our lives these days, I've noticed. I think
Arizona's pretty good now. Frankly, and this is going to
sound really cliche. I think UC's biggest opponent against Utah
was itself. Yeah, Like, I think Brendan soors Be just
played really, really poorly. And I don't know that Utah
had a ton to do with that. You know, you
and I were talking and you mentioned he had a

(02:09:37):
couple of balls batted down early that may have had
an impact, But I thought just lack of creativity offensively,
I thought Brendan sores Be displaying poorly. They did a
lot of uncharacteristic things turning the ball over. They were
awful on special teams for the first time all season long.
But I agree wholeheartedly. I think a lot of folks,
I'm not so sure inside the program, but I think

(02:09:58):
a lot of us we've talked to beat BYU well
sandwiched around that game. I think is a more difficult
game against Arizona than people realize. Ain't exactly gonna be
easy going to TCU and trying to get a win
the week of Thanksgiving either, So I'm I could not
agree more with anybody who says, look, yes, you gotta
beat BYU, but that game's not gonna matter as much

(02:10:20):
if you don't take care of business at home, and
this Arizona game is not one to be taken.

Speaker 2 (02:10:24):
Lately, without a doubt. You can hear more of that
and so much else coming up on The Mowager Show
ESBN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Stations. Mo is at Oakley
Greens Drew will park your car if you're a veteran,
fantastic stuff mo Thanks.

Speaker 10 (02:10:40):
Active or retired military member. Let's bring proof, let's go,
and if you get here for the show, between three
and six, Drew will park your car. And by the way,
no tipping aloud.

Speaker 2 (02:10:51):
Love it, love it.

Speaker 10 (02:10:54):
I'm gonna shake you down for money if you said
in our country.

Speaker 2 (02:10:58):
Absolutely mo. Thanks, have a great show. I see all right,
We're done. That's Mulaiger. The Muliager Show is next. This
has been since he three to sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty,
Cincinnati Sports Station. Have a great rest of your.

Speaker 8 (02:11:09):
Tuesday, WCKY, Cincinnati.

Speaker 15 (02:11:27):
Make us the number one pre set on your car
radio and on the free, new and improved iHeartRadio app
Free never sounded so good, ESPN fifteen thirty

Speaker 10 (02:11:36):
Whether you're tailgating in the parking lot or parked on
the couch sitting on your luck.