December 27, 2023 • 14 mins
60 years after the passage of the federal equal pay act, how big is the wage gap between men and women in New York City? Our guest is Sharon Sewell-Fairman, President & CEO of Women Creating Change. WCC, with the Center for New York City Affairs at the New School, have released the sobering report "Closing the Gender Pay Gap: Why Pay Equity Has Stalled in New York City and the Urgent Need for Action". For more, visit wccnyc.org
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina delRio, a weekly conversation about fitness,
health and happenings in our community onone oh six point seven Light FM.
Good morning, and thanks for listeningto Get connected. Sixty years after the
passage of the Federal Equal Pay Act, what is the wage gap between men
and women in the US and inNew York City? And what are some
(00:24):
of the concrete steps we can taketo get closer to parody. Our guest
is Sharon Sewell Fairman, President andCEO of Women Creating Change, who with
the Center for New York City Affairsat the New School have released a sobering
report closing the gender pay gap,why pay equity has stalled in New York
City, and the urgent need foraction. Sharon Zeuel Fairman, thank you
(00:45):
for being to get connected. Well, thank you so much Nina for having
me on this morning. I'll justquickly introduce myself if that's okay, sure,
and then we'll get right into itagain. My name is Sharon Sewell
Fairman. I'm the president and CEOof Women Creating Change, and I actually
joined this great organization earlier this yearin March, so I'm still getting to
(01:08):
know the organization, but I havemore than thirty years experience in workforce development
at the local, state, andnational levels, which has uniquely positioned me
to lead WCC given me a profoundunderstanding of the challenges and the disparities women
face. These challenges have a cascadingeffect. Without access to high quality jobs
(01:34):
with opportunities for advancement, women remaineconomically vulnerable and unable to adequately provide for
their families and build wealth. Moreover, the time and resources needed for civic
engagement and community involvement become limited,exacerbating economic, gender, and racial disparities,
(01:56):
as those impacted are uniquely unable toactively participate in the democratic process.
These are multifaceted challenges highlight the criticalneed for women creating change work. So
you may ask what do we do? So Essentially, WCC is one hundred
(02:17):
and eight years old, and ourvision is rooted in the visionary principles of
our founding women like Francis Perkins.Today, as we strive for gender equity,
we must hare in a civic engagementand activism to catalyze progress towards economic
justice, health and reproductive justice,education, safety, and environmental issues all
(02:44):
big issues that are important to women. Our strategy is simply this. It
is defined by inclusivity and intersectionality.At its heart lies a commitment to equipping
women and gender expand expansive individuals withthe skills, resources, tools and connections
(03:05):
to advocate for ourselves, to fosterstronger communities, and to fortify our democracy.
So, Women Creating Change recently developeda report on gender pay equity with
the Center for New York City Affairsat the New School. You were an
organization, as you mentioned, primarilyfocused on women's civic engagement. Why did
you undertake this project related to wages? Wages are central, It's a central
(03:31):
factor for women in terms of participatingin civic engagement, right, and so
what's important is that the new reportillustrates that sixty years after passage of the
Federal Equal Pay Act, women ofall ages and in all fields still earn
(03:52):
less than men, and crucially,progress closing that gap has slowed in the
past twenty five years, including inNew York City. So let me just
give you a little bit of thestats that we found. Nationally, women
earn eighty seven cents for every dollarearned by a man. Although that represents
(04:15):
progress from the fifty nine cents forevery dollar women earned when the Equal Pay
Act was passed in nineteen sixty three, progress has slowed. On average,
women in New York City earned ninetycents for every dollar earned by their male
counterparts. While the ratio has fluctuatedsome over time, this represents less than
(04:38):
the ninety two cents received in nineteenninety seven. Why has progress stalled?
Do you think progress is stalled?Primarily because cost of living increase far out
weighs the amount of women are making. Right, And so let me just
give you a little bit of alittle bit of sort of further stats that
(05:02):
we found and also a little bitof research. So, for EXAMPLEFPWA just
found that when you look across NewYork State, including New York City,
this report found that almost forty percentof New York State household many headed by
(05:23):
women, do not make enough incometo cover their basic needs, almost forty
percent, and so wild this phenomenaaffects all women in New York City.
This disproportionately impacts women of color.So in twenty twenty two, for every
dollar earned by a white male,white women earned eighty six cents on the
(05:46):
dollar. Asian women earned seventy twocents on the dollar, Black women earned
fifty seven cents on the dollar,and Hispanic and Latino women earned fifty four
cents on the dollar. So youcan see that even though we have progressed,
you know, and New York Cityis sort of leading the rest of
(06:08):
the country with ninety cents on thedollar, we've still still stalled. Also,
New York City has the highest numberof educated women compared to other cities
in the country, but still progressinstalled both for lowage workers as well as
high eye income earners as well.We're speaking with Sharon Seul Fairman. She
(06:31):
has over twenty five years of workforceand economic development experience at the local,
state, and national levels. Sheis the president and CEO of Women Creating
Change. Founded in nineteen fifteen,Women Creating Change is a nonprofit, nonpartisan
activist organization committed to advancing women's rightsand shaping the future of New York City.
You can find out more and thefull report at WCCNY dot org.
(06:56):
You're listening to get connected on oneoh six point seven light FM. I'm
Inna del Rio. Of course,Sharon, the cost of living in New
York City is one thing, butit's also I think, as you would
probably agree, this internal thing thatwomen and men have sort of been conditioned
to think about themselves differently. SoI wanted to bring up a conversation I
was privy too recently about a supervisorin a particular sector who was asking freelancers
(07:20):
to bid on a project to beoutsourced, and she said that female freelancers
were sending in quotes from around fiftydollars to two hundred and fifty dollars,
men were sending in quotes from fivehundred to eight hundred. Men and women
are steered through different types of educationalexperiences and norms, like we are in
(07:41):
some sense enforcing this gap because ofsegregation that's already been going on. Yes,
Yes, So the bottom line isthe report found that some of the
primary drivers why the wage gap isstalled and why women would put in a
bid for far less than men isthat historically there's been and still is occupational
(08:07):
segregation and the undervaluing of female dominatedsectors by the market and government that results
in low pay right. And thensecondly, the second shift of unpaid work
related to work that women typically perform. Women in the United States spend thirty
seven percent more time on unpaid householdand carework than men, and in some
(08:33):
cases the motherhood penalty resulting from timeto time out of the labor market,
and of course discrimination. So ifyou think about this, often women that
I've spoken to over the years,or just for example, women going for
a new job or submit or submittinga bid, we tend to low ball
(08:54):
ourselves right to say, hey,you know, we'll just get the job
first and then we'll go from there. Whereas our counterpart, because of the
traditional higher wages for men, mentend to just go in. I've negotiated
with men across the board and theygo they go for very high salaries.
(09:16):
But you can see the report showsthat occupational segregation discrimination right as well as
mothers who have to step out ofthe labor market, you know, for
to expand their families, they tendto either come back into the labor market
at a lower wage rather than probablythe wages that they have left the market
(09:43):
with, or they have to startat a different level. So these are
a few things that should be addressedas a culture. Right, women are
being seen as less important, Theirwork is less important, their time is
less important. But how do youget to it in practical terms? What
are some of your suggestions for NewYork City in particular. So let me
just say that while progress has beenslowed when it comes to the gender closing
(10:07):
the gender pay gap, we havehad dedicated activists in New York City and
nationwide to fight to close the paygap right and it continues right over the
past five decades, and earnings forratio of women to men is slowly improved.
So for example, paid family leave, paid safe in sick leaf,
(10:31):
increasing the minimum wage, the twentyseventeen Salary History Band, the Salary Transparency
legislation that was just passed, andthe Wage Theft Prevention Act. All these
policies have served to bring us tothis point where it's ninety cents on the
dollar. But there's still more thatcan be done. And so I'm going
(10:52):
to just share just a few womenin sort of the more care work sector
tends to be underpaid. So wewant to address human services pay inequities affecting
predominantly women of color in nonprofit humanservice workforce at the city and state levels,
and so we have the Human ServicesCouncil has started the just Pay campaign.
(11:18):
So if you're not familiar with theJust Pay campaign, go to the
website of the Human Services Council orhashtag just pay campaign to learn more.
We want to be able to alignhuman services workers wages with the cost of
living increase, so that's really important. We want to be able to raise
(11:39):
the pay of the childcare workers,who are among the lowest paid workers and
are overwhelmingly women and predominantly women ofcolor. We also want to continue to
restore the minimum wage purchasing power.We just had a win in that Governor
Hoe Gold will be raising the minimumwage to sixteen dollars an hour. We
still need to do to do more. For example, restaurant workers, especially
(12:03):
waitresses, they are still making asub minimum wage, so there is a
one Fair Wage campaign that we couldbe a part of to increase way at
least make those sub minimum wages alignwith the increasing minimum wage. Enhanced tax
credits benefiting low income families, raiseon employment insurance benefits for low and moderate
(12:28):
income workers, and take actions toimprove accessibility to benefits. So the job
quality piece is really important. Andthen why WCC exists is support making voting
easier in order to support greater civicparticipation by women because wage increase. All
(12:50):
of these are driven by policies rightin legislation, and so it's important that
women are involved in the civic processto influence policies that effect that affect them,
including closing the wage policies that lookto close the wage gap and increase
(13:11):
job quality for women. There's muchmore information in the report online, which
I think will spur some people tomove to action. The website is WCCNY
dot org for the full report closingthe gender pay Gap, why equity installed
in New York City, and theurgent need for action. Our guest is
Sharon Sewell Fairman, President and CEOof Women Creating Change. Thank you for
(13:33):
joining us, Sharon, and happyholidays. Thank you for having me.
Happy holidays to all families out there, including women. I have a safe
and healthy New Years. This hasbeen get connected with Nina del Rio on
one OHO six point seven light Fm. The views and opinions of our guests
do not necessarily reflect the views ofthe station. If you missed any part
(13:56):
of our show or want to shareit, visit our website, downloads and
podcasts at one O six seven lightfmdot com. Thanks for listening,
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina delRio, a weekly conversation about fitness,
health and happenings in our community onone oh six point seven Light FM.
Good morning, and thanks for listeningto Get connected. Sixty years after the
passage of the Federal Equal Pay Act, what is the wage gap between men
and women in the US and inNew York City? And what are some
(00:24):
of the concrete steps we can taketo get closer to parody. Our guest
is Sharon Sewell Fairman, President andCEO of Women Creating Change, who with
the Center for New York City Affairsat the New School have released a sobering
report closing the gender pay gap,why pay equity has stalled in New York
City, and the urgent need foraction. Sharon Zeuel Fairman, thank you
(00:45):
for being to get connected. Well, thank you so much Nina for having
me on this morning. I'll justquickly introduce myself if that's okay, sure,
and then we'll get right into itagain. My name is Sharon Sewell
Fairman. I'm the president and CEOof Women Creating Change, and I actually
joined this great organization earlier this yearin March, so I'm still getting to
(01:08):
know the organization, but I havemore than thirty years experience in workforce development
at the local, state, andnational levels, which has uniquely positioned me
to lead WCC given me a profoundunderstanding of the challenges and the disparities women
face. These challenges have a cascadingeffect. Without access to high quality jobs
(01:34):
with opportunities for advancement, women remaineconomically vulnerable and unable to adequately provide for
their families and build wealth. Moreover, the time and resources needed for civic
engagement and community involvement become limited,exacerbating economic, gender, and racial disparities,
(01:56):
as those impacted are uniquely unable toactively participate in the democratic process.
These are multifaceted challenges highlight the criticalneed for women creating change work. So
you may ask what do we do? So Essentially, WCC is one hundred
(02:17):
and eight years old, and ourvision is rooted in the visionary principles of
our founding women like Francis Perkins.Today, as we strive for gender equity,
we must hare in a civic engagementand activism to catalyze progress towards economic
justice, health and reproductive justice,education, safety, and environmental issues all
(02:44):
big issues that are important to women. Our strategy is simply this. It
is defined by inclusivity and intersectionality.At its heart lies a commitment to equipping
women and gender expand expansive individuals withthe skills, resources, tools and connections
(03:05):
to advocate for ourselves, to fosterstronger communities, and to fortify our democracy.
So, Women Creating Change recently developeda report on gender pay equity with
the Center for New York City Affairsat the New School. You were an
organization, as you mentioned, primarilyfocused on women's civic engagement. Why did
you undertake this project related to wages? Wages are central, It's a central
(03:31):
factor for women in terms of participatingin civic engagement, right, and so
what's important is that the new reportillustrates that sixty years after passage of the
Federal Equal Pay Act, women ofall ages and in all fields still earn
(03:52):
less than men, and crucially,progress closing that gap has slowed in the
past twenty five years, including inNew York City. So let me just
give you a little bit of thestats that we found. Nationally, women
earn eighty seven cents for every dollarearned by a man. Although that represents
(04:15):
progress from the fifty nine cents forevery dollar women earned when the Equal Pay
Act was passed in nineteen sixty three, progress has slowed. On average,
women in New York City earned ninetycents for every dollar earned by their male
counterparts. While the ratio has fluctuatedsome over time, this represents less than
(04:38):
the ninety two cents received in nineteenninety seven. Why has progress stalled?
Do you think progress is stalled?Primarily because cost of living increase far out
weighs the amount of women are making. Right, And so let me just
give you a little bit of alittle bit of sort of further stats that
(05:02):
we found and also a little bitof research. So, for EXAMPLEFPWA just
found that when you look across NewYork State, including New York City,
this report found that almost forty percentof New York State household many headed by
(05:23):
women, do not make enough incometo cover their basic needs, almost forty
percent, and so wild this phenomenaaffects all women in New York City.
This disproportionately impacts women of color.So in twenty twenty two, for every
dollar earned by a white male,white women earned eighty six cents on the
(05:46):
dollar. Asian women earned seventy twocents on the dollar, Black women earned
fifty seven cents on the dollar,and Hispanic and Latino women earned fifty four
cents on the dollar. So youcan see that even though we have progressed,
you know, and New York Cityis sort of leading the rest of
(06:08):
the country with ninety cents on thedollar, we've still still stalled. Also,
New York City has the highest numberof educated women compared to other cities
in the country, but still progressinstalled both for lowage workers as well as
high eye income earners as well.We're speaking with Sharon Seul Fairman. She
(06:31):
has over twenty five years of workforceand economic development experience at the local,
state, and national levels. Sheis the president and CEO of Women Creating
Change. Founded in nineteen fifteen,Women Creating Change is a nonprofit, nonpartisan
activist organization committed to advancing women's rightsand shaping the future of New York City.
You can find out more and thefull report at WCCNY dot org.
(06:56):
You're listening to get connected on oneoh six point seven light FM. I'm
Inna del Rio. Of course,Sharon, the cost of living in New
York City is one thing, butit's also I think, as you would
probably agree, this internal thing thatwomen and men have sort of been conditioned
to think about themselves differently. SoI wanted to bring up a conversation I
was privy too recently about a supervisorin a particular sector who was asking freelancers
(07:20):
to bid on a project to beoutsourced, and she said that female freelancers
were sending in quotes from around fiftydollars to two hundred and fifty dollars,
men were sending in quotes from fivehundred to eight hundred. Men and women
are steered through different types of educationalexperiences and norms, like we are in
(07:41):
some sense enforcing this gap because ofsegregation that's already been going on. Yes,
Yes, So the bottom line isthe report found that some of the
primary drivers why the wage gap isstalled and why women would put in a
bid for far less than men isthat historically there's been and still is occupational
(08:07):
segregation and the undervaluing of female dominatedsectors by the market and government that results
in low pay right. And thensecondly, the second shift of unpaid work
related to work that women typically perform. Women in the United States spend thirty
seven percent more time on unpaid householdand carework than men, and in some
(08:33):
cases the motherhood penalty resulting from timeto time out of the labor market,
and of course discrimination. So ifyou think about this, often women that
I've spoken to over the years,or just for example, women going for
a new job or submit or submittinga bid, we tend to low ball
(08:54):
ourselves right to say, hey,you know, we'll just get the job
first and then we'll go from there. Whereas our counterpart, because of the
traditional higher wages for men, mentend to just go in. I've negotiated
with men across the board and theygo they go for very high salaries.
(09:16):
But you can see the report showsthat occupational segregation discrimination right as well as
mothers who have to step out ofthe labor market, you know, for
to expand their families, they tendto either come back into the labor market
at a lower wage rather than probablythe wages that they have left the market
(09:43):
with, or they have to startat a different level. So these are
a few things that should be addressedas a culture. Right, women are
being seen as less important, Theirwork is less important, their time is
less important. But how do youget to it in practical terms? What
are some of your suggestions for NewYork City in particular. So let me
just say that while progress has beenslowed when it comes to the gender closing
(10:07):
the gender pay gap, we havehad dedicated activists in New York City and
nationwide to fight to close the paygap right and it continues right over the
past five decades, and earnings forratio of women to men is slowly improved.
So for example, paid family leave, paid safe in sick leaf,
(10:31):
increasing the minimum wage, the twentyseventeen Salary History Band, the Salary Transparency
legislation that was just passed, andthe Wage Theft Prevention Act. All these
policies have served to bring us tothis point where it's ninety cents on the
dollar. But there's still more thatcan be done. And so I'm going
(10:52):
to just share just a few womenin sort of the more care work sector
tends to be underpaid. So wewant to address human services pay inequities affecting
predominantly women of color in nonprofit humanservice workforce at the city and state levels,
and so we have the Human ServicesCouncil has started the just Pay campaign.
(11:18):
So if you're not familiar with theJust Pay campaign, go to the
website of the Human Services Council orhashtag just pay campaign to learn more.
We want to be able to alignhuman services workers wages with the cost of
living increase, so that's really important. We want to be able to raise
(11:39):
the pay of the childcare workers,who are among the lowest paid workers and
are overwhelmingly women and predominantly women ofcolor. We also want to continue to
restore the minimum wage purchasing power.We just had a win in that Governor
Hoe Gold will be raising the minimumwage to sixteen dollars an hour. We
still need to do to do more. For example, restaurant workers, especially
(12:03):
waitresses, they are still making asub minimum wage, so there is a
one Fair Wage campaign that we couldbe a part of to increase way at
least make those sub minimum wages alignwith the increasing minimum wage. Enhanced tax
credits benefiting low income families, raiseon employment insurance benefits for low and moderate
(12:28):
income workers, and take actions toimprove accessibility to benefits. So the job
quality piece is really important. Andthen why WCC exists is support making voting
easier in order to support greater civicparticipation by women because wage increase. All
(12:50):
of these are driven by policies rightin legislation, and so it's important that
women are involved in the civic processto influence policies that effect that affect them,
including closing the wage policies that lookto close the wage gap and increase
(13:11):
job quality for women. There's muchmore information in the report online, which
I think will spur some people tomove to action. The website is WCCNY
dot org for the full report closingthe gender pay Gap, why equity installed
in New York City, and theurgent need for action. Our guest is
Sharon Sewell Fairman, President and CEOof Women Creating Change. Thank you for
(13:33):
joining us, Sharon, and happyholidays. Thank you for having me.
Happy holidays to all families out there, including women. I have a safe
and healthy New Years. This hasbeen get connected with Nina del Rio on
one OHO six point seven light Fm. The views and opinions of our guests
do not necessarily reflect the views ofthe station. If you missed any part
(13:56):
of our show or want to shareit, visit our website, downloads and
podcasts at one O six seven lightfmdot com. Thanks for listening,
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