August 9, 2023 • 17 mins
In THE CONFIDENCE MAP: Charting a Path from Chaos to Clarity, behavioral economics pioneer Peter Atwater explores the hidden role of confidence in the choices we make and why events described as being unprecedented are often entirely predictable if we know what to look for. Peter Atwater is an Adjunct Professor of Economics at William and Mary, and President of Financial Insyghts, a consulting firm that advises on how social mood affects decision making, the economy, and the markets.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina delRio, a weekly conversation about fitness,
health and happenings in our community onone oh six point seven Light FM.
Good morning and thanks for listening toget connected. Predicting the future impossible in
theory, but we attempt at allthe time. We make decisions today about
what we think will happen tomorrow,hopefully for some control, some certainty about
(00:26):
our business, our investments, ourfuture. In the Confidence Map, Charting
a Path from Chaos to Clarity,behavioral economics pioneer Peter Atwater explores the hidden
role of confidence in the choices wemake, and why events described as being
unprecedented are often entirely predictable if weknow what to look for. Peter Atwater,
thank you for being on the show. Thank you so much, and
(00:47):
I'm very happy to be here.Peter Atwater is an adjunct professor of economics
at William and Mary and President ofFinancial Insights, a consulting firm that advises
on how social mood affects decision making, economy, and the markets. Peter,
when we think about confidence, mostof the time, we're thinking inward.
The target is here, our ownstrengths and weaknesses or maybe how someone
(01:07):
else projects confidence. How do youdefine it? Yeah, so I think
of that as self esteem, howwe feel about our own abilities. And
you're right, that's an inward lookthat My book isn't about that, Nor
is it about what I think ofas confidence theater, the behavior of very
confident people that we think we needto mimic, so Lebron James, Elon
Musk Beyonce. Those tend to beexamples of confidence theater that people identify with
(01:33):
and try to act like them.My interest is in our relationship with the
world broadly, and the certainty andcontrol that we feel relative to what's around
us. And how are certainty andcontrolled how do they underpin confidence? So
to be confident, I need toknow what is coming. I need there
(01:57):
to be a sense of predictability towhat's ahead. But that's not enough.
I need to also have a sensethat I'm prepared for that predictability, that
I have the skills, the tools, the resources that I can act in
a way that will successfully land mein an environment where I can relax.
(02:19):
Again, So to put things inperspective, can you describe the mapping tool
you devised, the confidence quadrant sure. So I took certainty in control,
and I put certainty along the Xaxis and control along the Y axis,
and then decided that we have highand low levels of each. So there's
a four box chart that is combinationsof certainty and control, high and low.
(02:45):
When we have both certainty and control, I call that the comfort zone.
That's where things feel easy, we'rerelaxed, we're also nicer, people
are thinking is simple. You canalmost think of it as an environment.
There we're counting by twos. It'sjust it's effortless. The stress center,
which is the opposing box in thelower left hand corners, where we don't
(03:08):
have certaintier control, where we feelpowerless and things feel uncertain and we don't
think about it in these terms.But vulnerability is the opposite of confidence.
And so when we lack confidence,the anxiety that we feel, this stress
is a function of the unknown.We don't know what's ahead and we're not
(03:30):
sure we're going to be able tohandle it. Those are the most obvious
boxes. The other two boxes areless clear to us, and I'm not
sure we even pay attention to them. These are where we have one of
the elements but not the other.So if I put you in the back
of a cab, you have certainty, or at least you hope you do,
(03:51):
but no control. And if thingsare going well, we feel relaxed,
we feel like we're in the comfortzone. But if things don't,
turbulence and on an airplane suddenly wefeel like we're in the stress center and
we don't appreciate that. Environments ofcertainty but no control define a prison,
and so at times that environment canfeel like that to us. The last
(04:14):
environment is where we have control butno certainty. And this is where you
could think of a rock climber halfwayup the hill, where it doesn't know
what's going to happen next, Willthey make it safely to the top,
will they fall to their death?And it feels like that. What I
call the launch pad is where we'vetaken control, but we don't know the
(04:35):
outcome. So we're going to lookat each of these quadrants a little bit.
But if you ask people to mapout their feelings of control and certainty
with specific experiences, how do youuse that information to infer what they're going
to do next. So it's fascinatinghow easily people can identify and associate feelings
(05:00):
and experiences. A trip to theemergency room inevitably has someone putting a mark
in an environment of very low certaintyand very low control. My students tell
me spring break is high certainty,high control. Those are the environments that
are fun. What I've discovered inmy research is that location matters, just
(05:21):
like in real estate, that dependingon where I am in this quadrant than
this map, I'm going to thinka particular way. I'm going to have
specific preferences, I'm going to wantdifferent things, I'm going to do different
things. Even the stories that I'mgoing to say are different, and it's
it's almost like they're four distinct countrieswith unique cultures to them. Let's come
(05:46):
up with an example. So youare credited with the term ac shaped recovery
after COVID, where certain industries andindividuals had a more rapid economic recovery and
others have stagnated. How did youcome to that prediction using this mapping?
So what I observed was we wereall panicking together. And what panic tells
(06:09):
me is we were rapidly moving fromwhere we were to this lower left hand
corner of the of the box.And so it's telling me that hopelessness is
setting in and that people are catastrophizingand worried about what's coming. And we
were using the term unprecedented, likethere was no tomorrow. What I soon
(06:29):
saw thereafter was that if you couldpivot to work from home, suddenly you
were regaining a sense of control thatothers who worked in supermarkets or hospitals or
were delivering goods they didn't have.And initially I called the termament that the
work from home confidence divide, becausethat's that's what it was based on.
(06:53):
But you know that doesn't really rolloff the tongue, so K shape recovery
became my choice. When economists we'retalking about VS and news and l's,
it's like, no, no,no, we're going to have We're having
two different confident experience and ultimately that'sgoing to translate into two different economic decisions,
because our decision making is a functionof where we are and how we
(07:16):
feel. I want to dig downinto that in just a moment, but
let me remind everyone who we're speakingwith, Peter Atwater. He's a pioneer
in securitization and a long time financialservices executive. Peter's work on decision making
has been featured in The New YorkTimes, Time Magazine, and The Financial
Times. His book is The ConfidenceMap, Charting a Path from Chaos to
Clarity. You're listening to get Connectedon one oh six point seven light FM.
(07:39):
I'm Nina del Rio. So whenwe're talking about COVID specifically, and
this book is not necessarily about specificevents, it's about how to look at
specific events. But cod is oneof those examples where people came out not
only with different perhaps financial divides,but they sort of also reacted to it
differently. Some people took it veryseriously, some people took it less seriously.
(08:03):
How does a prior mood to astressful event impact how they will react
to it. So there are fivenatural responses that we have to extreme stress,
Nita, and we know two ofthem by heart, fight and flight.
We either oppose directly what's making usfeel vulnerable or we flee from it.
(08:26):
There are three others. One ofthem is to freeze. We become
paralyzed by the experience, just overwhelmedcognitively, sometimes emotionally, and so we
don't know what to do and juststand there. And that was a response
to COVID. The other two don'tget much attention, but they really need
to. One of them is followand followers actually our easiest response to extreme
(08:52):
vulnerability. All we have to dois get in line, find somebody who
thinks they know the pathway out,and we'll quickly. You know, I
say that, you know if ina cold, wet brain, you will
eventually get in the car with someone. You know that we're prone to solve
the problem by following somebody else.And here we need to be careful because
(09:13):
we mistake that they have our bestinterest at hearts at heart. And often
this is an environment that I seewhere you have conman predators. Often this
is the the environment where authoritarian figurescome to the four So we need to
be very careful to choose wisely whenwe're following others when we're feeling especially vulnerable.
(09:35):
The last environment, and I callthese the five fs is is an
f word that your listeners are probablyvery well familiar with, and that is
to say that we're naturally nihilistic thatwhen we feel especially vulnerable, if we
don't think we're ever going to getout of it, then we sabotage ourselves
and we sabotage others by this behaviorwhere it's it's just a it's an f
(10:00):
response. You also do have examples, though, of people who in extreme
vulnerability, which is the opposite ofconfidence, low control, low certainty,
can make choices that are successful.How can a leader use vulnerability of vulnerability
first mindset successfully? Yeah. Somost of us, when we arrive in
(10:24):
that place of extreme vulnerability, focuson the problem in a crisis, what
broke, what burned, what's createdthis vulnerability. But effective leaders and even
ourselves think about the feelings that haveaccompanied that. They focus on the feelings
of uncertainty and powerlessness and realize thatuntil those feelings are addressed, that vulnerability
(10:52):
is going to continue. The examplethat I used in the book was tail
and All and the tampering of Thailanall Containers, where at the head of
Johnson and Johnson had all of thecontainers across the country pulled and he would
say, well, that's an overreaction. On the surface, it is,
(11:13):
but he brilliantly eliminated the sense ofvulnerability. The FAA did the same thing
on nine to eleven when they groundedall the planes. You can imagine that
if they just dealt with a fewhow anxious people would continue to be.
I tell doctors the difference between curinga patient and healing a patient comes with
(11:33):
that elimination of vulnerability and the restorationof confidence. On the other end of
the spectrum, though high confidence doesn'talways yield a successful outcome. Your confidence
peaks to the point of fearlessness,and ironically you become vulnerable to downfall.
So can you talk about the otherend of the spectrum. Yeah, And
there are two elements of it.One is not just the fearlessness that we
(11:56):
take risks that we wouldn't otherwise take, but we do so paying the least
amount of attention. The more confidentI am, the less my brain needs
to be on high alert. Andif I'm feeling extremely confident, I'm not
paying any attention whatsoever. You couldthink of it almost like driving on a
(12:16):
straight road on a clear day.You will arrive at home and you step
back and go, how'd that happen? Time moves quickly and we're not paying
enough attention. And so that absenceof attention, paired with this enormous risk
taking set step of a natural precuriousnesswhere suddenly, when we do realize that
something's about to go wrong. We'rewoefully unprepared, We've taken too much risk,
(12:41):
and we're caught blindsided by it.Something else that factors in which I
think is very interesting in evaluating ourperceived control and certainty to specific situations or
threats. You talk about psychological distance. What is that and how does that
affect the choices we make? Socycle logical distances the degree to which we
think things are closer far away fromus. What that has to do with
(13:07):
our decision making is it's as ifwe've been fitted with variable lens goggles.
When I feel vulnerable, I haveto focus. I have to be paying
a really intense attention to what's aroundme. And that's not just physical attention.
It also plays out in terms ofsocial attention. I'm going to pay
(13:28):
attention to me, not to youor anybody else, and time attention.
What matters is now, not lateror ten years from now. And so
all of our decision making is framedby this preference for me here now.
We can see that with a hoardingthat we did with wipes and water and
toilet paper, we need things thatare important to us right here, and
(13:52):
familiarity is what matters most. Asconfidence begins to rise. We entertain a
broader universe socially, geographically, temporarilyin terms of the timing and the future.
We think strategically, we plan,we go, places, we explore,
(14:13):
and we embrace things that are muchmore abstract. And so one of
the ways to assess how we feelat our at our core is to think
about how why does that circle aroundyou are you? Are you in me
here now mode? Or are youus everywhere forever mode? I call it
because that's going to tell us abouthow you feel and in turn, the
(14:37):
choices you make. If I'm ifI'm thinking futuristically, i might be buying
cryptocurrency and NFTs and things that arehighly abstract, but I'm going to be
focused on cash in hand when Iwhen continence is very low. As you
mentioned in the book, Mark Twainis reputed to have said, history doesn't
(14:58):
repeat itself, but it often rhymesanother way. Times change, but sort
of things kind of remain the sameover time, whether we're talking about these
big macro events or even people.Shouldn't that make our predictions more reliable?
It should, but we fall victimto the sentiments of the crowd. I
think that both extremes of confidence arethere's an addictive quality. We catastrophize and
(15:24):
just can't get out of our ownway. When confidence is low and it
peaks in confidence, it's almost likethe sirens song of abundance into the future
on an endless basis, And sowe don't observe that those are the warning
signs of an abrupt about face,and we make our biggest mistakes at those
(15:48):
extremes. We don't take enough riskwhen confidence is low, and we take
far too much when confidence is high. Is it like the four corners map
here? The goal is to beright there in the sweet spot in the
center, yeah, the to havea reasonable level of confidence, but also
to appreciate that we move around,and that rather than striving to be confident
all the time, we should striveto be resilient, To accept that periods
(16:14):
of uncertainty and powerlessness are a naturalpart of life, and rather than be
afraid of them and try to avoidthem at all costs, to prepare for
the inevitable crisis that's going to happen. To think more like an emergency room
doctor who's spent time really thinking throughand having processes in place for what happens
in those moments. There's much morein the book, The Confidence Map,
(16:37):
Charting a Path from Chaos to Clarity. Peter Atwater has been our guest.
Thank you for being on Get Connected. Thank you so much, Nina,
I really appreciate it. This waswonderful. This has been Get Connected with
Nina del Rio on one of sixpoint seven light Fm. The views and
opinions of our guests do not necessarilyreflect the views of the station. If
you missed any part of our showor want to er, visit our website
(17:00):
for downloads and podcasts at one ohsix seven lightfm dot com. Thanks for listening.
Welcome to Get Connected with Nina delRio, a weekly conversation about fitness,
health and happenings in our community onone oh six point seven Light FM.
Good morning and thanks for listening toget connected. Predicting the future impossible in
theory, but we attempt at allthe time. We make decisions today about
what we think will happen tomorrow,hopefully for some control, some certainty about
(00:26):
our business, our investments, ourfuture. In the Confidence Map, Charting
a Path from Chaos to Clarity,behavioral economics pioneer Peter Atwater explores the hidden
role of confidence in the choices wemake, and why events described as being
unprecedented are often entirely predictable if weknow what to look for. Peter Atwater,
thank you for being on the show. Thank you so much, and
(00:47):
I'm very happy to be here.Peter Atwater is an adjunct professor of economics
at William and Mary and President ofFinancial Insights, a consulting firm that advises
on how social mood affects decision making, economy, and the markets. Peter,
when we think about confidence, mostof the time, we're thinking inward.
The target is here, our ownstrengths and weaknesses or maybe how someone
(01:07):
else projects confidence. How do youdefine it? Yeah, so I think
of that as self esteem, howwe feel about our own abilities. And
you're right, that's an inward lookthat My book isn't about that, Nor
is it about what I think ofas confidence theater, the behavior of very
confident people that we think we needto mimic, so Lebron James, Elon
Musk Beyonce. Those tend to beexamples of confidence theater that people identify with
(01:33):
and try to act like them.My interest is in our relationship with the
world broadly, and the certainty andcontrol that we feel relative to what's around
us. And how are certainty andcontrolled how do they underpin confidence? So
to be confident, I need toknow what is coming. I need there
(01:57):
to be a sense of predictability towhat's ahead. But that's not enough.
I need to also have a sensethat I'm prepared for that predictability, that
I have the skills, the tools, the resources that I can act in
a way that will successfully land mein an environment where I can relax.
(02:19):
Again, So to put things inperspective, can you describe the mapping tool
you devised, the confidence quadrant sure. So I took certainty in control,
and I put certainty along the Xaxis and control along the Y axis,
and then decided that we have highand low levels of each. So there's
a four box chart that is combinationsof certainty and control, high and low.
(02:45):
When we have both certainty and control, I call that the comfort zone.
That's where things feel easy, we'rerelaxed, we're also nicer, people
are thinking is simple. You canalmost think of it as an environment.
There we're counting by twos. It'sjust it's effortless. The stress center,
which is the opposing box in thelower left hand corners, where we don't
(03:08):
have certaintier control, where we feelpowerless and things feel uncertain and we don't
think about it in these terms.But vulnerability is the opposite of confidence.
And so when we lack confidence,the anxiety that we feel, this stress
is a function of the unknown.We don't know what's ahead and we're not
(03:30):
sure we're going to be able tohandle it. Those are the most obvious
boxes. The other two boxes areless clear to us, and I'm not
sure we even pay attention to them. These are where we have one of
the elements but not the other.So if I put you in the back
of a cab, you have certainty, or at least you hope you do,
(03:51):
but no control. And if thingsare going well, we feel relaxed,
we feel like we're in the comfortzone. But if things don't,
turbulence and on an airplane suddenly wefeel like we're in the stress center and
we don't appreciate that. Environments ofcertainty but no control define a prison,
and so at times that environment canfeel like that to us. The last
(04:14):
environment is where we have control butno certainty. And this is where you
could think of a rock climber halfwayup the hill, where it doesn't know
what's going to happen next, Willthey make it safely to the top,
will they fall to their death?And it feels like that. What I
call the launch pad is where we'vetaken control, but we don't know the
(04:35):
outcome. So we're going to lookat each of these quadrants a little bit.
But if you ask people to mapout their feelings of control and certainty
with specific experiences, how do youuse that information to infer what they're going
to do next. So it's fascinatinghow easily people can identify and associate feelings
(05:00):
and experiences. A trip to theemergency room inevitably has someone putting a mark
in an environment of very low certaintyand very low control. My students tell
me spring break is high certainty,high control. Those are the environments that
are fun. What I've discovered inmy research is that location matters, just
(05:21):
like in real estate, that dependingon where I am in this quadrant than
this map, I'm going to thinka particular way. I'm going to have
specific preferences, I'm going to wantdifferent things, I'm going to do different
things. Even the stories that I'mgoing to say are different, and it's
it's almost like they're four distinct countrieswith unique cultures to them. Let's come
(05:46):
up with an example. So youare credited with the term ac shaped recovery
after COVID, where certain industries andindividuals had a more rapid economic recovery and
others have stagnated. How did youcome to that prediction using this mapping?
So what I observed was we wereall panicking together. And what panic tells
(06:09):
me is we were rapidly moving fromwhere we were to this lower left hand
corner of the of the box.And so it's telling me that hopelessness is
setting in and that people are catastrophizingand worried about what's coming. And we
were using the term unprecedented, likethere was no tomorrow. What I soon
(06:29):
saw thereafter was that if you couldpivot to work from home, suddenly you
were regaining a sense of control thatothers who worked in supermarkets or hospitals or
were delivering goods they didn't have.And initially I called the termament that the
work from home confidence divide, becausethat's that's what it was based on.
(06:53):
But you know that doesn't really rolloff the tongue, so K shape recovery
became my choice. When economists we'retalking about VS and news and l's,
it's like, no, no,no, we're going to have We're having
two different confident experience and ultimately that'sgoing to translate into two different economic decisions,
because our decision making is a functionof where we are and how we
(07:16):
feel. I want to dig downinto that in just a moment, but
let me remind everyone who we're speakingwith, Peter Atwater. He's a pioneer
in securitization and a long time financialservices executive. Peter's work on decision making
has been featured in The New YorkTimes, Time Magazine, and The Financial
Times. His book is The ConfidenceMap, Charting a Path from Chaos to
Clarity. You're listening to get Connectedon one oh six point seven light FM.
(07:39):
I'm Nina del Rio. So whenwe're talking about COVID specifically, and
this book is not necessarily about specificevents, it's about how to look at
specific events. But cod is oneof those examples where people came out not
only with different perhaps financial divides,but they sort of also reacted to it
differently. Some people took it veryseriously, some people took it less seriously.
(08:03):
How does a prior mood to astressful event impact how they will react
to it. So there are fivenatural responses that we have to extreme stress,
Nita, and we know two ofthem by heart, fight and flight.
We either oppose directly what's making usfeel vulnerable or we flee from it.
(08:26):
There are three others. One ofthem is to freeze. We become
paralyzed by the experience, just overwhelmedcognitively, sometimes emotionally, and so we
don't know what to do and juststand there. And that was a response
to COVID. The other two don'tget much attention, but they really need
to. One of them is followand followers actually our easiest response to extreme
(08:52):
vulnerability. All we have to dois get in line, find somebody who
thinks they know the pathway out,and we'll quickly. You know, I
say that, you know if ina cold, wet brain, you will
eventually get in the car with someone. You know that we're prone to solve
the problem by following somebody else.And here we need to be careful because
(09:13):
we mistake that they have our bestinterest at hearts at heart. And often
this is an environment that I seewhere you have conman predators. Often this
is the the environment where authoritarian figurescome to the four So we need to
be very careful to choose wisely whenwe're following others when we're feeling especially vulnerable.
(09:35):
The last environment, and I callthese the five fs is is an
f word that your listeners are probablyvery well familiar with, and that is
to say that we're naturally nihilistic thatwhen we feel especially vulnerable, if we
don't think we're ever going to getout of it, then we sabotage ourselves
and we sabotage others by this behaviorwhere it's it's just a it's an f
(10:00):
response. You also do have examples, though, of people who in extreme
vulnerability, which is the opposite ofconfidence, low control, low certainty,
can make choices that are successful.How can a leader use vulnerability of vulnerability
first mindset successfully? Yeah. Somost of us, when we arrive in
(10:24):
that place of extreme vulnerability, focuson the problem in a crisis, what
broke, what burned, what's createdthis vulnerability. But effective leaders and even
ourselves think about the feelings that haveaccompanied that. They focus on the feelings
of uncertainty and powerlessness and realize thatuntil those feelings are addressed, that vulnerability
(10:52):
is going to continue. The examplethat I used in the book was tail
and All and the tampering of Thailanall Containers, where at the head of
Johnson and Johnson had all of thecontainers across the country pulled and he would
say, well, that's an overreaction. On the surface, it is,
(11:13):
but he brilliantly eliminated the sense ofvulnerability. The FAA did the same thing
on nine to eleven when they groundedall the planes. You can imagine that
if they just dealt with a fewhow anxious people would continue to be.
I tell doctors the difference between curinga patient and healing a patient comes with
(11:33):
that elimination of vulnerability and the restorationof confidence. On the other end of
the spectrum, though high confidence doesn'talways yield a successful outcome. Your confidence
peaks to the point of fearlessness,and ironically you become vulnerable to downfall.
So can you talk about the otherend of the spectrum. Yeah, And
there are two elements of it.One is not just the fearlessness that we
(11:56):
take risks that we wouldn't otherwise take, but we do so paying the least
amount of attention. The more confidentI am, the less my brain needs
to be on high alert. Andif I'm feeling extremely confident, I'm not
paying any attention whatsoever. You couldthink of it almost like driving on a
(12:16):
straight road on a clear day.You will arrive at home and you step
back and go, how'd that happen? Time moves quickly and we're not paying
enough attention. And so that absenceof attention, paired with this enormous risk
taking set step of a natural precuriousnesswhere suddenly, when we do realize that
something's about to go wrong. We'rewoefully unprepared, We've taken too much risk,
(12:41):
and we're caught blindsided by it.Something else that factors in which I
think is very interesting in evaluating ourperceived control and certainty to specific situations or
threats. You talk about psychological distance. What is that and how does that
affect the choices we make? Socycle logical distances the degree to which we
think things are closer far away fromus. What that has to do with
(13:07):
our decision making is it's as ifwe've been fitted with variable lens goggles.
When I feel vulnerable, I haveto focus. I have to be paying
a really intense attention to what's aroundme. And that's not just physical attention.
It also plays out in terms ofsocial attention. I'm going to pay
(13:28):
attention to me, not to youor anybody else, and time attention.
What matters is now, not lateror ten years from now. And so
all of our decision making is framedby this preference for me here now.
We can see that with a hoardingthat we did with wipes and water and
toilet paper, we need things thatare important to us right here, and
(13:52):
familiarity is what matters most. Asconfidence begins to rise. We entertain a
broader universe socially, geographically, temporarilyin terms of the timing and the future.
We think strategically, we plan,we go, places, we explore,
(14:13):
and we embrace things that are muchmore abstract. And so one of
the ways to assess how we feelat our at our core is to think
about how why does that circle aroundyou are you? Are you in me
here now mode? Or are youus everywhere forever mode? I call it
because that's going to tell us abouthow you feel and in turn, the
(14:37):
choices you make. If I'm ifI'm thinking futuristically, i might be buying
cryptocurrency and NFTs and things that arehighly abstract, but I'm going to be
focused on cash in hand when Iwhen continence is very low. As you
mentioned in the book, Mark Twainis reputed to have said, history doesn't
(14:58):
repeat itself, but it often rhymesanother way. Times change, but sort
of things kind of remain the sameover time, whether we're talking about these
big macro events or even people.Shouldn't that make our predictions more reliable?
It should, but we fall victimto the sentiments of the crowd. I
think that both extremes of confidence arethere's an addictive quality. We catastrophize and
(15:24):
just can't get out of our ownway. When confidence is low and it
peaks in confidence, it's almost likethe sirens song of abundance into the future
on an endless basis, And sowe don't observe that those are the warning
signs of an abrupt about face,and we make our biggest mistakes at those
(15:48):
extremes. We don't take enough riskwhen confidence is low, and we take
far too much when confidence is high. Is it like the four corners map
here? The goal is to beright there in the sweet spot in the
center, yeah, the to havea reasonable level of confidence, but also
to appreciate that we move around,and that rather than striving to be confident
all the time, we should striveto be resilient, To accept that periods
(16:14):
of uncertainty and powerlessness are a naturalpart of life, and rather than be
afraid of them and try to avoidthem at all costs, to prepare for
the inevitable crisis that's going to happen. To think more like an emergency room
doctor who's spent time really thinking throughand having processes in place for what happens
in those moments. There's much morein the book, The Confidence Map,
(16:37):
Charting a Path from Chaos to Clarity. Peter Atwater has been our guest.
Thank you for being on Get Connected. Thank you so much, Nina,
I really appreciate it. This waswonderful. This has been Get Connected with
Nina del Rio on one of sixpoint seven light Fm. The views and
opinions of our guests do not necessarilyreflect the views of the station. If
you missed any part of our showor want to er, visit our website
(17:00):
for downloads and podcasts at one ohsix seven lightfm dot com. Thanks for listening.
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