October 30, 2024 • 23 mins
And can Elliot finally talk about that HR investigation?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have we been edging away from the email that comes
out and says, hey, Elliot's no longer with us, we
wish him best of luck in his future? Endefferent like
there was always some very form written email. Have we
kind of gotten away from that where just we don't
say anything?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Certainly seems yeah, where there's nothing right?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
So it could be you don't know whether Elliott was
let go for was it performance based?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Did he do something? Is it a budget cut?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Like nobody knows why?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Right?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
If there's no email, and in some cases, even when
there is an email, it just says, hey, so and
so isn't with us any longer.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
We wish them the best of luck in their future.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
And why you rely on office gossip? The Oh, we'll
get down to the nitty gritty, right.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But are they required if you go ask, are they
required to tell you?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So you are just rank and file?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, you just want to know why Sam's not here anymore?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Correct? Do you have a reason to ask or you're
just trying to get the gossip? Which part of me?
Are you asking? So it's as you like to say,
A and B, Yeah, a little column, A little column B.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
No, were you allowed to are you allowed to go
and ask and say, For example, I go to Aaron
and go, hey, why was blank?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Let go?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
It would be can I can't?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Now Aaron's not stupid, he knows I just want gossip
the But in a normal office, wouldn't you be able
to go in and go hey, listen, I was working
on some of the same projects as Elliott. I hope,
I'm not like now I'm concerned am I doing something wrong?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So it's not so.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Much the legal question you're wondering. You just want to
know if out of.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
You well, I mean, whether it's being honest or not.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
But there are some people who would legitimately wonder Oh no.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Oh, I legitimately want to know I would put the
gossip aside.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Oh then I don't care. Yes, if you.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Are in a very similar position, absolutely, Is there something
that I can improve on that would avoid the same fate?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Bingo? Wow?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Is there something that I can improve on? Number two,
how severe are these budget cuts going to be? Or
did they just do something reckless and they got fired
for it?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Right?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
So you're asking was it performance? Was it money or.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Was it corporate?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Was it was it performance or was it negligence or
something well, I don't, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Like, did they did they do something? They do something bad?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, and you know, don't expect you're going to get
a straight answer.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
But are you entitled to an answer entitled?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I would say no.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Why did those emails used to say, like, please direct
any questions to me or something?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Would they end with that?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I just I remember it was always they just always
had a piece of the like, oh, we wish them
the best of luck.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
He turned right, and I go.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
No, you don't. If you wish him so much luck,
why'd you fire him?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Well, you're allowed to ask compare, well, we don't know
you want to? Is everyone just afraid too? Is that
what it boils down to.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I would think in most offices you can't go up,
and just most people wouldn't feel like it's it's in
my place to be able to go up and ask Josh,
will you find me somebody that's a manager, please, not
including one of ours.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Those people aren't managers. Hell doesn't doesn't even get here
on time.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
He's still got time this morning.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
The okay, he was late yesterday, he was late the
day before.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
To Elliot eight six six two three five five four
six eight. Somebody who's a manager of people? Are staff
a group of people? A team of people? Eight six
six to Elliot eight six six two three five five
four six eight yes, Tyler.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
So I don't delete the emails. So I'm going back here,
and I searched the term future endeavors. There was a
recent one from May from who about who about someone
working here?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Come on, which one is this?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
But it definitely it wasn't as cold as that emotionless
message usually was. So this was like, please join me
in wishing Blank all the best in Blank's future endeavors.
If you'd like to send Blank a personal message, feel
free to do so before her blank.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Oh sorry, damn it.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Oh well you said her. Oh see, but before Blank
last day.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I tried so hard to keep gender out of that.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I think I know who this is, like our bathrooms,
I think I know who this is. But Jamie no, oh,
because Jamie transferred.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
No.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
This goes back to the spring Shariah. I don't know,
like I'm reading, I don't. I don't know the yeah,
but I like I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I don't know what went on there, But sometimes I
mean I do, but don't don't. Sometimes they'll they'll go,
it's a mutual parting of the ways.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
But then tell me that you see that a lot
with coaches high up? Well, oh god, in sports do
you see that a ton? But just in terms of
it'll be like somebody who was like on the board
and the CEO is talking about that a mutual party
of ways. You know who doesn't get to say that
rank and fire right?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Right? Yeah, no, we just had the what is it
like a marketing person, like corporate marketing person.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Who was shit, that's the other one.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
They're going to be a consultant for a little bit, right,
They're going to consult their couch and their guide on
the TV. Yeah, apparently Meg is doing a ton of
consulting these days. Haven't heard her consult the thing? And
I like Meg, but just say she gotta let go now.
I don't know why I'll have to go ask.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Well, that's a great question too. How far of a
radius do you get? Well, I think it depends. I
think it depends.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I thought you were speaking to someone who was in
the office, maybe in your.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Oh yeah, oh no.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
No. If i'm asking Meg, I'm just there's a former
co worker. I'm just I'm just I'm very interesting concerned.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Where am I going? Josh? Line four? Thank you? Hi
Ellie in the morning. Yeah, Hi, who's this?
Speaker 5 (06:54):
This is Kelsey, the old intern from D two and
a one. How are you, guys?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Dude? How are you?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I'm thinking?
Speaker 6 (07:03):
Also, I listen.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
I've never been able to call in. I used to
answer phones, but man, this is like a whole new experience.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Oh this is good. So wait a minute. Are you
a manager somewhere.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Now, Elliott? I teach classes for supervision as an adjunct professor.
Plus I managed, and I'm in an HR position as well.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
And you worked here.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Start somewhere.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Oh wow, hey, so let me ask you this.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Let me you'll know it was a part timer when
I was there. Tyler was a part timer with me
in the promotions department.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Your last name is was it at W.
Speaker 7 (07:39):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Yeah, yeah, the guys I left her. She was super
fun and a great worker.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Now my face days exactly my face days.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
By the way, you know what's great intern here? And
you go on to such great things? Hey, so, Kelsey,
let me ask you this. Let me ask you this now,
and like you're essentially an HR person. If our employees
allowed to come ask and are they entitled to an
answer as to why somebody got fired?
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Absolutely. Now keep it in mind that there's different state
regulations as far as that goes. But in Maryland, a
Maryland employer can give a reason. They don't have to.
But if asked, I would highly suggest any managers that
I work with give a reason for being fired.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Really, and we have a relation to back it up.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Wait, hold on one second, not not the person who's
being fired to ask. Let's say let's say they fired
Diane and I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Can I go ask why Diane was fired?
Speaker 7 (08:36):
You can?
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Now they have a choice whether they want to disclose
that information or not. But Maryland is an at will state.
You can be fired for any reason, with or without reason.
In fact, I was fired. That's why I went into HR.
I was fired for no reason. So it was hilarious
and I had to coach my boss at the time
on how to fire someone correctly. Wait and got certified
(08:59):
in h are No. No, okay, no, I quit there.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Okay, I'm so envious to you. I should have followed
you out the door that Hey, let me ask you this.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
Hey, I got to tell you, Elliott. Hold on, you
changed my life because you wrote a message city entire
company saying another good one gone. I don't know if
you remember, but I still have that email and it
rocked my world.
Speaker 7 (09:20):
Man.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Yeah no, I just want to thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah. No, we have a habit of doing that. We
keep the bad ones, but the good ones we.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Wanted to follow up. Please stop with the reply of
hey but wait, so Kelsey, go back for a second.
What did you do to get fired that made you
want to go into HR?
Speaker 7 (09:40):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (09:41):
Lordie, So I actually ran a digital media department. I
was the first one and the only one in the department,
and I gave them a whole presentation based off of
the effective ways for people to work, seven ways we
could better run the company before or the better run
the department I was in at the company, and then
(10:01):
I told you that. Sorry, oh sorry, sorry, sec my apologies.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
So I literally got fired for no reason after I
told him how to better run the department. That I
was fired because it wasn't running effectively.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
But you know what, you can at least look back
now and go it worked out for the best.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Thank god, I got fired. That's what drove you to HR.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Absolutely and I run my own company, helping people in HR,
especially small organizations with decisions like what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Right, and I still work for these idiots. All right?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Very good, Very good, Kelsey, I love you too, talk
to you later.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
That's very nice. Look at that. That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Bigger and better things did?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I go to line eight? Hi Elliot the morning? Yeah, Hi,
who's this.
Speaker 7 (10:54):
Carlos?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Hey, what's going on? Dude?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Sorry?
Speaker 7 (10:58):
Nothing much. I will a manager for staff of security
and bartenders before, and yeah, we've had to fire people.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, no, listen, everybody, everybody, and it's not a fun job,
but everybody's had to fire people. I mean there there
are times where well, whatever the but if employees came
to you or like, hey, why what happened with Hank?
Do you tell them why they got fired?
Speaker 7 (11:26):
I would tell people only because I felt like it
was a good idea to be transparent with the staff
so that they know not to do the same thing
that someone else did. And a lot of times everybody
saw it coming anyway. So I feel like most of
the time, the reason that there's so much gossip amongst
the groups is because everybody's privy to what everyone's doing.
(11:47):
Right or wrong. So if someone gets fired for it,
you know, they ask, so why did they get fired,
But they kind of already knew the answer in the
first place, So I just go ahead and tell them.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
See, now, why is it If I said that, everybody
would go like, oh, you're just doing it to spread gossip,
but I would be doing it to better the better
the office.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Well, change that reputation that precedes you. So is it.
Speaker 7 (12:13):
Yeah, some people genuinely do it for some people do
do it for gossip. But you know, I feel like
as a manager, you kind of learn who the people
are that are just doing it for gossip that you
might not tell them because you know what their intentions
are behind it, that they just want something to talk about.
But I feel like, you know, it's up to every
(12:34):
manager's discretion. But at the end of the day, I
felt like being transparent just made more sense. I didn't
want to be a manager that people thought was out
to get people, so I let them know, like, no,
there was a reason I didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Oh see. I like that. Also, I like that, thank you,
thank you, Carlos.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I like that also that it is, Hey, I'm not
the kind of person that's going around looking at knife people.
Speaker 8 (12:53):
I'll tell you exactly why I got rid of them.
That's smart, this is interesting. Firings are typically a need
to know basis, and most of the time that's the
right way to handle it. Personnel issues generally should be
confidential because people deserve privacy when something goes wrong profortionally.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Why all you do is build teen No, No, I'm
being serious.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
It's all about team building and making sure that everybody's
working together. We're all rowing at the same pace. If
somebody got pomped, yeah, listen, I understand it sucks.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I've been fired.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It sucks, but it can leave colleagues wondering what happened,
And the best thing for managers to do is to
combat this by being transparent about how they handle performance
problems in general, and that is an italics in general.
For example, it's useful for managers to share that anyone
whose work isn't up to parker will receive clear feedback,
(13:44):
and if things progress to the point that their job
is in jeopardy, they'll be clearly worn and then given
time to improve.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
So if hiring should never be I've been on one
of those multiple times.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Clear written policies explaining each step in the process before
letting someone go.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
But here's the difference. Here's where I'm going to argue that, yes,
somebody may have been put on a PIP, but they
don't tell everybody. Hey, Elliott's on a PIP.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Did they always tell you?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Oh I knew when I was on a PIP? I laughed.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yeah, Oh my god, I wonder why they think you're
the gossip guy.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
No, but like I don't know, Like I know, I
know two people in the office that were on a PIP.
I don't know if they're off. Don't they last forever too? Yes, Oh,
it's ridiculous. They hold it over your head. I know, like, like, oh,
look at us the But they didn't tell the rest
of the staff, Hey, so and so is on a PIP,
(14:43):
because then that would signal.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
They're they're they're not holding up their end of the performance.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
It says, though, to be credible, companies need to establish
cultures where employees trust that these policies will be followed
fairly and where they see managers giving clear, regular and
reason feedback. Most of the time, you should not ask
directly why someone was fired. That's not your business and
your manager might not be able to even share it.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Then they need to say I am unable to share that.
There's still a way to talk to your boss about
these concerns.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So I'm concerned. Why did Paul get fired? You could
say that you were surprised to see colleagues leave so abruptly.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
See but then you look stupid if the person goes,
oh my god, how are you so blind that you
didn't see Paul's performance was so bad?
Speaker 4 (15:34):
You could say this, I'll try this repeat after me.
I really value candid feedback. Stop laughing ready, I.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Really value candid feedback and would want to know and
would want to know if you ever had serious concerns,
if you ever had serious concerns about my work, about
my work, so I could have so in that I
can have the opportunity to improve, the opportunity to improve.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Why did you get like snarky at the end? He
didn't want it to be plagiarism.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Well, I also thought that I that you were going
to lead me through a way to ask what did
someone do?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Not am I doing something? That's an example of how
to work around the direct question. But then they would
just say you're fine.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Says their manager's response to this might reassure you or
it might not. Either way, you should come away from
this conversation with more information.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
You didn't.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I came away with nothing.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
You guys want to know who's on a pip? Well
they should, don't you agree? They make pips public.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
What you want like a bulletin board and like the
common room?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah or just yeah, just write it on the window.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Now, the last time you threatened a list like this,
you know what it had on it?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
The wait, No, I don't EMPLOYEEA Yeah, I forgot about that.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Hi, elliot in the morning?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Is it me?
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Who's this?
Speaker 6 (17:12):
This is Jennifer So. I worked from home when I
wound up getting fired, so they had the grace to
come to my house and fire me in my bedroom.
But everybody wound up knowing why I got fired because
I was around of however many it was probably a
dozen people who got fired for failing an updated background check.
(17:37):
But okay, in my defense, the background check company made
a huge mistake and said that I committed a financial
felony and it was incorrect, and I've had that since
fixed and I'm eligible for rehire. But everybody taught that
I got fired for committing a financial.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Felony when in reality was it a financial misdemeanor?
Speaker 3 (17:58):
No?
Speaker 6 (17:58):
It actually I wrote to a bad check in high
school for like six dollars.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Oh my god, they hold it, they hold it. They
held that against you.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
A was Judith Light standing right behind you.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
The background check company mislabeled it as a misdemeanor, like
a class C missmeanor I mean, sorry, a class C seleny.
So they had to fire me. It was a financial institution.
But another girl got fired because she did a senior
prank by stealing a cow, and because it was over
a felony amount. She wound up getting fired because it
(18:35):
was a felony and she did it in high school,
but she was over eighteen.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh my god, are you serious? Oh my god, I'm.
Speaker 6 (18:42):
Not even joking. And I would say the name of
the company, but I mean, I mean, it's been a
decade now, so it doesn't really matter to me.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Is that company? Is that company still in business? Oh
my gosh.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
Yeah, do you want me to tell you who it is? Yes, okay,
it's Well's Fargo homework.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Oh my god, they're the ones that screwed me.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
When I bounced the check, they they put they reported
me the Equifax not Equifax tele check.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Yeah, yes, and they they when when the whole mortgage
crisis went down, and when they bought out Wacovia, Wacoba
had all kinds of issues with their mortgages, like they
had some shady mortgages, so they had to do all
of these renewed background checks because you know, obviously they're
under a lot of scrutinies. So a whole bunch of
(19:30):
people wound up getting let go. So when you saw
somebody not come in for their one day of work,
one day of work a week, you know, when they
were telex meeting, they're like, oh, I guess they got
them too.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Man, And wait and you were how old when you
bounced the check for six bucks? Sarah?
Speaker 6 (19:49):
I was eighteen.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Oh my god.
Speaker 6 (19:51):
Because I was over eighteen and I lived in this
tiny little town in Wisconsin, they went after me hard.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Wow, I do like that they came to your house
to fire, like that's kind of cool.
Speaker 7 (20:01):
Yes, I was.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
I was so grateful. Like well, when they called me
and they said, hey, we're going to come in and
come visit you, I'm like oh I'm getting fired?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
All right, very good, Thank you, ma'am. Thank you for bouncing.
It's for backlas when you were eighteen. Do you realize
I will never work for Wells Fargo? Seriously, we buzzled
our way through a movie theater.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
But also hasn't Wells Fargot paid billions?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
And well that's the other thing. I would tell them,
your mirror's not clean. Oh you're perfect, Ritchie writes. My
company just sends out an email. It says name, position,
and in the subject line immediate termination.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
But that doesn't that make you want to go ask
what happened?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Tom has a great question, Tom from the Good Squad,
if you ever find yourself in this position.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Wait, where I have to fire somebody?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
No?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
No, no, oh? Where you are being fired?
Speaker 7 (21:04):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Would they have to let you know the results of
that HR investigation?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
By the way, I think I'm allowed to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
How long has that been?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I've never nobody has ever said another word to me.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
You think like the agreement was like a year or well,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
How long it is, but the statute of limitations has
to be up on that.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Do those exist eternally for your investigation?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yes, forever.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I don't know, it has been so demise.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Maybe it has been so long I would probably mess
up parts of the story and get.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
In trouble, but still preach it like gospel.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I do know. Someone accused me.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
No, someone accused me of saying something on the air
that was I've gone down this road before, right, that
was one hundred percent not true.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Coworker A coworker.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Accuse me of saying something on the air that was
one hundred percent not true, even to the point where
I said to the HR person, you guys have pulled
all the tapes. So he was like, did you say
this on the air? I was like, you tell me
you got the tape? What was that guy's name?
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Hated you?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Oh, he couldn't stand me. Bernard, eh, Gerard, I don't
know Gerard. Thank you, Josh, Yeah, like you got the tapes.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
He was all contentious with you. And then he was
like talking about Chicago with Kristen.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, yeah, they're having a whole thing. Oh, I lived
in Chicago, right, Elliott, did you say this? No? Are
you sure you have the tape? You tell me? Oh
my god. Then I know him.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
By the way, the person who complained I don't even
know why they complained about me.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I didn't do none of them.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Say again and Dane remind me you were never talked
to Nope.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, were you talked to?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
No, Josh wasn't, Tyler wasn't.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
No, correct, Kristen was. I was son of a bitch,
was he
Have we been edging away from the email that comes
out and says, hey, Elliot's no longer with us, we
wish him best of luck in his future? Endefferent like
there was always some very form written email. Have we
kind of gotten away from that where just we don't
say anything?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Certainly seems yeah, where there's nothing right?
Speaker 1 (00:21):
So it could be you don't know whether Elliott was
let go for was it performance based?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Did he do something? Is it a budget cut?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Like nobody knows why?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Right?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
If there's no email, and in some cases, even when
there is an email, it just says, hey, so and
so isn't with us any longer.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
We wish them the best of luck in their future.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
And why you rely on office gossip? The Oh, we'll
get down to the nitty gritty, right.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But are they required if you go ask, are they
required to tell you?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
So you are just rank and file?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, you just want to know why Sam's not here anymore?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Correct? Do you have a reason to ask or you're
just trying to get the gossip? Which part of me?
Are you asking? So it's as you like to say,
A and B, Yeah, a little column, A little column B.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
No, were you allowed to are you allowed to go
and ask and say, For example, I go to Aaron
and go, hey, why was blank?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Let go?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
It would be can I can't?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Now Aaron's not stupid, he knows I just want gossip
the But in a normal office, wouldn't you be able
to go in and go hey, listen, I was working
on some of the same projects as Elliott. I hope,
I'm not like now I'm concerned am I doing something wrong?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So it's not so.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Much the legal question you're wondering. You just want to
know if out of.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
You well, I mean, whether it's being honest or not.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
But there are some people who would legitimately wonder Oh no.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Oh, I legitimately want to know I would put the
gossip aside.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Oh then I don't care. Yes, if you.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
Are in a very similar position, absolutely, Is there something
that I can improve on that would avoid the same fate?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Bingo? Wow?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Is there something that I can improve on? Number two,
how severe are these budget cuts going to be? Or
did they just do something reckless and they got fired
for it?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Right?
Speaker 4 (02:46):
So you're asking was it performance? Was it money or.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Was it corporate?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Was it was it performance or was it negligence or
something well, I don't, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Like, did they did they do something? They do something bad?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Well, and you know, don't expect you're going to get
a straight answer.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
But are you entitled to an answer entitled?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I would say no.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Why did those emails used to say, like, please direct
any questions to me or something?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Would they end with that?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I just I remember it was always they just always
had a piece of the like, oh, we wish them
the best of luck.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
He turned right, and I go.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
No, you don't. If you wish him so much luck,
why'd you fire him?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Well, you're allowed to ask compare, well, we don't know
you want to? Is everyone just afraid too? Is that
what it boils down to.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I would think in most offices you can't go up,
and just most people wouldn't feel like it's it's in
my place to be able to go up and ask Josh,
will you find me somebody that's a manager, please, not
including one of ours.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Those people aren't managers. Hell doesn't doesn't even get here
on time.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
He's still got time this morning.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
The okay, he was late yesterday, he was late the
day before.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
To Elliot eight six six two three five five four
six eight. Somebody who's a manager of people? Are staff
a group of people? A team of people? Eight six
six to Elliot eight six six two three five five
four six eight yes, Tyler.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
So I don't delete the emails. So I'm going back here,
and I searched the term future endeavors. There was a
recent one from May from who about who about someone
working here?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Come on, which one is this?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
But it definitely it wasn't as cold as that emotionless
message usually was. So this was like, please join me
in wishing Blank all the best in Blank's future endeavors.
If you'd like to send Blank a personal message, feel
free to do so before her blank.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Oh sorry, damn it.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Oh well you said her. Oh see, but before Blank
last day.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I tried so hard to keep gender out of that.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
I think I know who this is, like our bathrooms,
I think I know who this is. But Jamie no, oh,
because Jamie transferred.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
No.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
This goes back to the spring Shariah. I don't know,
like I'm reading, I don't. I don't know the yeah,
but I like I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I don't know what went on there, But sometimes I
mean I do, but don't don't. Sometimes they'll they'll go,
it's a mutual parting of the ways.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
But then tell me that you see that a lot
with coaches high up? Well, oh god, in sports do
you see that a ton? But just in terms of
it'll be like somebody who was like on the board
and the CEO is talking about that a mutual party
of ways. You know who doesn't get to say that
rank and fire right?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Right? Yeah, no, we just had the what is it
like a marketing person, like corporate marketing person.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Who was shit, that's the other one.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
They're going to be a consultant for a little bit, right,
They're going to consult their couch and their guide on
the TV. Yeah, apparently Meg is doing a ton of
consulting these days. Haven't heard her consult the thing? And
I like Meg, but just say she gotta let go now.
I don't know why I'll have to go ask.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Well, that's a great question too. How far of a
radius do you get? Well, I think it depends. I
think it depends.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
I thought you were speaking to someone who was in
the office, maybe in your.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Oh yeah, oh no.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
No. If i'm asking Meg, I'm just there's a former
co worker. I'm just I'm just I'm very interesting concerned.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Where am I going? Josh? Line four? Thank you? Hi
Ellie in the morning. Yeah, Hi, who's this?
Speaker 5 (06:54):
This is Kelsey, the old intern from D two and
a one. How are you, guys?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Dude? How are you?
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I'm thinking?
Speaker 6 (07:03):
Also, I listen.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
I've never been able to call in. I used to
answer phones, but man, this is like a whole new experience.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Oh this is good. So wait a minute. Are you
a manager somewhere.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Now, Elliott? I teach classes for supervision as an adjunct professor.
Plus I managed, and I'm in an HR position as well.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
And you worked here.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Start somewhere.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Oh wow, hey, so let me ask you this.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Let me you'll know it was a part timer when
I was there. Tyler was a part timer with me
in the promotions department.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Your last name is was it at W.
Speaker 7 (07:39):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Yeah, yeah, the guys I left her. She was super
fun and a great worker.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Now my face days exactly my face days.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
By the way, you know what's great intern here? And
you go on to such great things? Hey, so, Kelsey,
let me ask you this. Let me ask you this now,
and like you're essentially an HR person. If our employees
allowed to come ask and are they entitled to an
answer as to why somebody got fired?
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Absolutely. Now keep it in mind that there's different state
regulations as far as that goes. But in Maryland, a
Maryland employer can give a reason. They don't have to.
But if asked, I would highly suggest any managers that
I work with give a reason for being fired.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Really, and we have a relation to back it up.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Wait, hold on one second, not not the person who's
being fired to ask. Let's say let's say they fired
Diane and I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Can I go ask why Diane was fired?
Speaker 7 (08:36):
You can?
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Now they have a choice whether they want to disclose
that information or not. But Maryland is an at will state.
You can be fired for any reason, with or without reason.
In fact, I was fired. That's why I went into HR.
I was fired for no reason. So it was hilarious
and I had to coach my boss at the time
on how to fire someone correctly. Wait and got certified
(08:59):
in h are No. No, okay, no, I quit there.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Okay, I'm so envious to you. I should have followed
you out the door that Hey, let me ask you this.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
Hey, I got to tell you, Elliott. Hold on, you
changed my life because you wrote a message city entire
company saying another good one gone. I don't know if
you remember, but I still have that email and it
rocked my world.
Speaker 7 (09:20):
Man.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Yeah no, I just want to thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah. No, we have a habit of doing that. We
keep the bad ones, but the good ones we.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Wanted to follow up. Please stop with the reply of
hey but wait, so Kelsey, go back for a second.
What did you do to get fired that made you
want to go into HR?
Speaker 7 (09:40):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (09:41):
Lordie, So I actually ran a digital media department. I
was the first one and the only one in the department,
and I gave them a whole presentation based off of
the effective ways for people to work, seven ways we
could better run the company before or the better run
the department I was in at the company, and then
(10:01):
I told you that. Sorry, oh sorry, sorry, sec my apologies.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
So I literally got fired for no reason after I
told him how to better run the department. That I
was fired because it wasn't running effectively.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
But you know what, you can at least look back
now and go it worked out for the best.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Thank god, I got fired. That's what drove you to HR.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Absolutely and I run my own company, helping people in HR,
especially small organizations with decisions like what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Right, and I still work for these idiots. All right?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Very good, Very good, Kelsey, I love you too, talk
to you later.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
That's very nice. Look at that. That's awesome.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Bigger and better things did?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I go to line eight? Hi Elliot the morning? Yeah, Hi,
who's this.
Speaker 7 (10:54):
Carlos?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Hey, what's going on? Dude?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Sorry?
Speaker 7 (10:58):
Nothing much. I will a manager for staff of security
and bartenders before, and yeah, we've had to fire people.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, no, listen, everybody, everybody, and it's not a fun job,
but everybody's had to fire people. I mean there there
are times where well, whatever the but if employees came
to you or like, hey, why what happened with Hank?
Do you tell them why they got fired?
Speaker 7 (11:26):
I would tell people only because I felt like it
was a good idea to be transparent with the staff
so that they know not to do the same thing
that someone else did. And a lot of times everybody
saw it coming anyway. So I feel like most of
the time, the reason that there's so much gossip amongst
the groups is because everybody's privy to what everyone's doing.
(11:47):
Right or wrong. So if someone gets fired for it,
you know, they ask, so why did they get fired,
But they kind of already knew the answer in the
first place, So I just go ahead and tell them.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
See, now, why is it If I said that, everybody
would go like, oh, you're just doing it to spread gossip,
but I would be doing it to better the better
the office.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Well, change that reputation that precedes you. So is it.
Speaker 7 (12:13):
Yeah, some people genuinely do it for some people do
do it for gossip. But you know, I feel like
as a manager, you kind of learn who the people
are that are just doing it for gossip that you
might not tell them because you know what their intentions
are behind it, that they just want something to talk about.
But I feel like, you know, it's up to every
(12:34):
manager's discretion. But at the end of the day, I
felt like being transparent just made more sense. I didn't
want to be a manager that people thought was out
to get people, so I let them know, like, no,
there was a reason I didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Oh see. I like that. Also, I like that, thank you,
thank you, Carlos.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I like that also that it is, Hey, I'm not
the kind of person that's going around looking at knife people.
Speaker 8 (12:53):
I'll tell you exactly why I got rid of them.
That's smart, this is interesting. Firings are typically a need
to know basis, and most of the time that's the
right way to handle it. Personnel issues generally should be
confidential because people deserve privacy when something goes wrong profortionally.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Why all you do is build teen No, No, I'm
being serious.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
It's all about team building and making sure that everybody's
working together. We're all rowing at the same pace. If
somebody got pomped, yeah, listen, I understand it sucks.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I've been fired.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It sucks, but it can leave colleagues wondering what happened,
And the best thing for managers to do is to
combat this by being transparent about how they handle performance
problems in general, and that is an italics in general.
For example, it's useful for managers to share that anyone
whose work isn't up to parker will receive clear feedback,
(13:44):
and if things progress to the point that their job
is in jeopardy, they'll be clearly worn and then given
time to improve.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
So if hiring should never be I've been on one
of those multiple times.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Clear written policies explaining each step in the process before
letting someone go.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
But here's the difference. Here's where I'm going to argue that, yes,
somebody may have been put on a PIP, but they
don't tell everybody. Hey, Elliott's on a PIP.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Did they always tell you?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Oh I knew when I was on a PIP? I laughed.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yeah, Oh my god, I wonder why they think you're
the gossip guy.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
No.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
No, but like I don't know, Like I know, I
know two people in the office that were on a PIP.
I don't know if they're off. Don't they last forever too? Yes, Oh,
it's ridiculous. They hold it over your head. I know, like, like, oh,
look at us the But they didn't tell the rest
of the staff, Hey, so and so is on a PIP,
(14:43):
because then that would signal.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
They're they're they're not holding up their end of the performance.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
It says, though, to be credible, companies need to establish
cultures where employees trust that these policies will be followed
fairly and where they see managers giving clear, regular and
reason feedback. Most of the time, you should not ask
directly why someone was fired. That's not your business and
your manager might not be able to even share it.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Then they need to say I am unable to share that.
There's still a way to talk to your boss about
these concerns.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So I'm concerned. Why did Paul get fired? You could
say that you were surprised to see colleagues leave so abruptly.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
See but then you look stupid if the person goes,
oh my god, how are you so blind that you
didn't see Paul's performance was so bad?
Speaker 4 (15:34):
You could say this, I'll try this repeat after me.
I really value candid feedback. Stop laughing ready, I.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Really value candid feedback and would want to know and
would want to know if you ever had serious concerns,
if you ever had serious concerns about my work, about
my work, so I could have so in that I
can have the opportunity to improve, the opportunity to improve.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Why did you get like snarky at the end? He
didn't want it to be plagiarism.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Well, I also thought that I that you were going
to lead me through a way to ask what did
someone do?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Not am I doing something? That's an example of how
to work around the direct question. But then they would
just say you're fine.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Says their manager's response to this might reassure you or
it might not. Either way, you should come away from
this conversation with more information.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
You didn't.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I came away with nothing.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Right.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
You guys want to know who's on a pip? Well
they should, don't you agree? They make pips public.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
What you want like a bulletin board and like the
common room?
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah or just yeah, just write it on the window.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Now, the last time you threatened a list like this,
you know what it had on it?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
The wait, No, I don't EMPLOYEEA Yeah, I forgot about that.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Hi, elliot in the morning?
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Is it me?
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Hi?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Who's this?
Speaker 6 (17:12):
This is Jennifer So. I worked from home when I
wound up getting fired, so they had the grace to
come to my house and fire me in my bedroom.
But everybody wound up knowing why I got fired because
I was around of however many it was probably a
dozen people who got fired for failing an updated background check.
(17:37):
But okay, in my defense, the background check company made
a huge mistake and said that I committed a financial
felony and it was incorrect, and I've had that since
fixed and I'm eligible for rehire. But everybody taught that
I got fired for committing a financial.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Felony when in reality was it a financial misdemeanor?
Speaker 3 (17:58):
No?
Speaker 6 (17:58):
It actually I wrote to a bad check in high
school for like six dollars.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Oh my god, they hold it, they hold it. They
held that against you.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
A was Judith Light standing right behind you.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
The background check company mislabeled it as a misdemeanor, like
a class C missmeanor I mean, sorry, a class C seleny.
So they had to fire me. It was a financial institution.
But another girl got fired because she did a senior
prank by stealing a cow, and because it was over
a felony amount. She wound up getting fired because it
(18:35):
was a felony and she did it in high school,
but she was over eighteen.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh my god, are you serious? Oh my god, I'm.
Speaker 6 (18:42):
Not even joking. And I would say the name of
the company, but I mean, I mean, it's been a
decade now, so it doesn't really matter to me.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Is that company? Is that company still in business? Oh
my gosh.
Speaker 6 (18:54):
Yeah, do you want me to tell you who it is? Yes, okay,
it's Well's Fargo homework.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Oh my god, they're the ones that screwed me.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
When I bounced the check, they they put they reported
me the Equifax not Equifax tele check.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
Yeah, yes, and they they when when the whole mortgage
crisis went down, and when they bought out Wacovia, Wacoba
had all kinds of issues with their mortgages, like they
had some shady mortgages, so they had to do all
of these renewed background checks because you know, obviously they're
under a lot of scrutinies. So a whole bunch of
(19:30):
people wound up getting let go. So when you saw
somebody not come in for their one day of work,
one day of work a week, you know, when they
were telex meeting, they're like, oh, I guess they got
them too.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Man, And wait and you were how old when you
bounced the check for six bucks? Sarah?
Speaker 6 (19:49):
I was eighteen.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Oh my god.
Speaker 6 (19:51):
Because I was over eighteen and I lived in this
tiny little town in Wisconsin, they went after me hard.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Wow, I do like that they came to your house
to fire, like that's kind of cool.
Speaker 7 (20:01):
Yes, I was.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
I was so grateful. Like well, when they called me
and they said, hey, we're going to come in and
come visit you, I'm like oh I'm getting fired?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
All right, very good, Thank you, ma'am. Thank you for bouncing.
It's for backlas when you were eighteen. Do you realize
I will never work for Wells Fargo? Seriously, we buzzled
our way through a movie theater.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
But also hasn't Wells Fargot paid billions?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
And well that's the other thing. I would tell them,
your mirror's not clean. Oh you're perfect, Ritchie writes. My
company just sends out an email. It says name, position,
and in the subject line immediate termination.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
But that doesn't that make you want to go ask
what happened?
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Tom has a great question, Tom from the Good Squad,
if you ever find yourself in this position.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Wait, where I have to fire somebody?
Speaker 4 (21:02):
No?
Speaker 2 (21:02):
No, no, oh? Where you are being fired?
Speaker 7 (21:04):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Would they have to let you know the results of
that HR investigation?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
By the way, I think I'm allowed to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
How long has that been?
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I've never nobody has ever said another word to me.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
You think like the agreement was like a year or well,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
How long it is, but the statute of limitations has
to be up on that.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Do those exist eternally for your investigation?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yes, forever.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
I don't know, it has been so demise.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Maybe it has been so long I would probably mess
up parts of the story and get.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
In trouble, but still preach it like gospel.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I do know. Someone accused me.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
No, someone accused me of saying something on the air
that was I've gone down this road before, right, that
was one hundred percent not true.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Coworker A coworker.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Accuse me of saying something on the air that was
one hundred percent not true, even to the point where
I said to the HR person, you guys have pulled
all the tapes. So he was like, did you say
this on the air? I was like, you tell me
you got the tape? What was that guy's name?
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Hated you?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Oh, he couldn't stand me. Bernard, eh, Gerard, I don't
know Gerard. Thank you, Josh, Yeah, like you got the tapes.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
He was all contentious with you. And then he was
like talking about Chicago with Kristen.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, yeah, they're having a whole thing. Oh, I lived
in Chicago, right, Elliott, did you say this? No? Are
you sure you have the tape? You tell me? Oh
my god. Then I know him.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
By the way, the person who complained I don't even
know why they complained about me.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I didn't do none of them.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Say again and Dane remind me you were never talked
to Nope.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, were you talked to?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
No, Josh wasn't, Tyler wasn't.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
No, correct, Kristen was. I was son of a bitch,
was he
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Good Game is your one-stop shop for the biggest stories in women’s sports. Every day, host Sarah Spain gives you the stories, stakes, stars and stats to keep up with your favorite women’s teams, leagues and athletes. Through thoughtful insight, witty banter, and an all around good time, Sarah and friends break down the latest news, talk about the games you can’t miss, and debate the issues of the day. Don’t miss interviews with the people of the moment, whether they be athletes, coaches, reporters, or celebrity fans.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.