EITM: Doula Noted 11/29/23

Did you know that word comes from Greek, meaning a "female servant" role? Because that's what I've been playing in this marriage and I WANT A DIVORCE!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Duelas come up every so often.Right, Duela is probably most famous for
like birth dulas, I don't knowwhat you call them, like baby baby
doulas whatever. And then didn't welearn there are death duelas. Yeah,
we we've talked to one who listensquite regularly. Right, you know what.
The next surge of dulas are divorcedulas. Just somebody who's kind of

(00:27):
a guide to help you navigate allthe newness. Yes, not only the
well, navigate the whole process.So it's somebody that you can lean on.
It's not a lawyer, right,it's it's not a lawyer, and
it's not a therapist. A lotof duel but a lot of these divorce

(00:49):
duelas can kind of help you navigatetwo things. Number one, they can
help you navigate a little bit oflike what the what the what the legal
system is going to be like?Yeah, Also, if you're if you're
going through and they said, listen, if it's a really amicable divorce and
there's no issues, you don't needa divorce dueler. They're pretty honest about
it. Oh okay, so it'sonly if things are getting a little sticky.

(01:12):
Yeah, yes, I would thinkthey'd be helpful no matter what.
But if you were going into likelet's say you were going into what did
they call that, arbitration not arbitrationmediation, that they would be able to
say to you, hey, listen, here's what here's what child custody looks
like for a lot of cases,and you could kind of go through it

(01:34):
now again if it is a messand bad. They could also help you
navigate the legal system. If you'regonna have to do this, you're gonna
have to do this, You're gonnahave to do this, they said.
They're also helpful with like, let'ssay you're in a nasty custody case with
a with a soon to b Xright, and there's text messages going back

(01:56):
and forth and back and forth,and you're trying to figure out should she
have sent me, should she nothave sent me this? I could go
to my DULA and go, hey, listen, which of these If I
send that whole string of text messagesto a lawyer, it costs me four
hundred dollars an hour for a lawyerto read text messages and go and none
of this matters. Adula, onthe other hand, they charge, but
it's nowhere close to that could kindof help navigate you through that. They

(02:20):
could help navigate you through you're goingto have to file, You're gonna have
to do this, You're gonna haveto do that. Who kind of has
knows the running checklist? And againthey're not lawyers, but they're experienced.
So can you use this doula hereand there? Almost pay for person?
Yeah, like the time necessary.It's not someone that you have necessarily on

(02:46):
retainer who's by yourself. No,no, no no, And that's what
they'll leave it tell you like aa divorce lawyer you may have on retainer,
right, this not at all.So this is somebody where you could
come to them with a list ofquestions. Here's what I don't understand.
I need an hour with you.Yeah, and then they and then you
may go that was great, Ineed you know what? I need another

(03:06):
this has come up now I needanother hour. Yeah, yeah, it's
it seems genius to me. Yeah, it makes total sense now I like
it from the gossip standpoint. Oh, because if you'd like to, I'd
like to be a doula. Ididn't know that it came from the Greek
word meaning female servant. I'd liketo change my name means yeah, But

(03:30):
I mean, if you think aboutit, they would help you with a
with with the birth. Well,I was curious if we were really stretching
the origins of that word and ifit if it didn't mean birth or child
labor, or if there's something tiedto having a child birth right, but
it's not. No, it's tiedto being a servant. Yeah, I

(03:54):
think this is going to be industry. They said it's growing. They said
it's growing a lot like you like, you know, like there's a business
that that that's growing, like wherepeople are just life coaches. Yeah,
they said, this is essentially asubset of that. It's a life coach
for people who are going through divorce. Now, I do think we've heard

(04:16):
of like a divorce coach. Thismight be very similar but has its differences.
It almost sounds more comforting, tobe honest. You know. The
other thing that they said that it'shelpful, and I guess I just don't
think of it this way where theywere saying, like for people who are
getting who are going who are goingto go through a divorce, right,
so they may be early on inthe divorce, they may be they may

(04:39):
be in the process of a divorce. But I guess, and I mean
this honestly with no disrespect. Right, I'm a I'm a child of divorce.
There's still a stigma around it,like some people are. Some people
are still ashamed or embarrassed to saythat they're getting divorced. I don't understand
that if two people aren't happy,and I'm not talking about if it if

(05:03):
it's if it's an emergency case andthere's there's there's abuse taking place, whether
it's physical, mental, emotional.That I I get that one hundred percent,
and that you may you you maykeep a little quieter. You should
still obviously get out. But Ican understand where maybe you would keep that

(05:24):
a little quiet. But I'm talkingabout the bulk of divorces. I I
got it. I maybe I justdon't think of it that way. But
I don't think of there being anystigma around it. I really don't.
There certainly is, and it's Ithink it's easier said than done, and
you have no experience with it.But there's also those and this is not

(05:45):
you who really believe in upholding thesanctity of marriage until it doesn't work.
But that's you who's able to setout aside for everyone's betterment. That's that's
not the case for a lot ofpeople who who think of the institution in
a different way. Okay, thatthat that that that may be. That
may be fair. I celebrate peoplegetting divorced. Why be unhappy? Life's

(06:12):
way too short, way too short. And you've always been the loudest proponent
of never stay married for kid kids, Never stay married for kids. They
are a thousand times smarter than youthink they are. This is interesting.
Oh wait, one other thing theysaid another reason that sometimes people are afraid
to let it be known that they'regoing through a divorce, which I'm going

(06:35):
to tie back into a divorce duelin a second. People feel they have
to pick sides. What line suggestshere? Oh, what does it say?
What does it say? It saysthat they can do, dude.
The duelists can be there in waysfriends and family can't. Uh. For
instance, someone may only be ableto be there in a certain season and

(06:57):
hold capacity in a certain way becausethey have their own things that they're going
through problems. Bro. But thisis like having the best friend you've always
wanted. You do have to bepaying for it. But it's exactly what
you said. The reason they saythat line right there or endorse it in
such a way is because you don'tknow in the back of the head if

(07:18):
if that person that you're leaning onis also trying to team Elliott side with
with both parties, right m hm. Because that's like, whether it's a
divorce or just even a breakup,that's human nature to pick sides always.

(07:40):
Oh, I'm sorry, Len,you host a show where you let everyone
know of your decision the no,but everybody does that. I try not
to try. It's like, whoare you friends? First? No,
that's not always the case. No, but somebody has done somebody wrong,

(08:03):
and there's like a glaring I trynot to judge, act, I try
not to judge. Hell, it'slike, who would I have more fun
in South Beach with Bingo? No? No, no, no, no,
Like I well, you just saidit, like he's automatically going to
side with the husband. That's true. As a matter of fact, I'll
tell you this, But you saidSouth Beach went. We have friends that

(08:24):
got divorced, and I was muchcloser with the husband than the wife,
And when they got divorced, thehusband kind of. I don't. I
don't want to say he pushed everybodyaway. I'll still see him and he's
very friendly with me, but hekind of like separated from everything. It
was like, you know what I'mI'm getting away from this. Yeah,
and I remain much friendlier with thewife now than with the husband. But
I like them both, right forwhatever reason? Yeah, I could be

(08:48):
friends with both. In my head, I don't want to say I blame
one more than the other. I'llsay it for you know, I'm behind
their back, but I get itwith one more than the Yeah, but
that's normal now. As a doula, though, you'd have to be very
impartial and just work with the personthat has employed you to assist that.

(09:13):
Right. Oh but what I wasgoing to say, Yeah, so there's
the who's picking what side in yourwith your doula. But there's also people
who don't want to come out andsay like, hey, I'm going through
a divorce because people then automatically choosesides and you're not even there yet.
Yeah, they don't. They haveno idea. Now how does one go?
But if Diane, if I camein tomorrow, was like, hey,

(09:35):
Scott and I are getting divorced.I'd be like team Diane. I
don't even know what happened. I'dbe team Diane. Well, it would
be hard for you not to beteam me. Sitting across the counter for
me, he did not consider yourfeelings when cracking open that lobster. No,
no, but I mean now,if I learned later on that you

(09:56):
were playing spread eagle all through theUH parking garage, I may be team
Scott. I would still tell you. Why was team Diane? Right,
Yeah, it's a little too political. Maybe, Oh, I don't.
I don't care what politics Diane has. When when? And I'm sure Diane
would do this when it's being broadcast, right, the whole journey from from

(10:20):
wedding day until yeah, until it'sover. Yeah. But isn't this pretty
smart the idea of a divorce toElli. Yeah, and again, I'd
love to do it, just fromthe standpoint of the gossip man. I
bet you hear some stuff, althoughI bet most of them are so Monday

(10:41):
we fell out of love, andI'd be like, yeah, but why
yeah, but why so? Brianwrites Elliott. While it may be liberating,
there is still a sense of failure. Even if you're in the right,
oh as coming to the conclusion thatyou need to get divorced. See,
I don't, I don't. Idon't. Well, I've not been
divorced. However, it's not failure. Failure would be staying in it.

(11:07):
But you can see where Brian issaying it didn't work. You stood up
there in front of everybody, notexpecting it to end this way. Maybe
some people by the way, andthe audience did every job I've taken.
I didn't expect to get fired.It's my divorce. Elliott asking for his
gift back. No, no,you know what I mean. Like,
but that's not a sign of failure. But you can understand, yes,

(11:33):
I can understand that. I can't. I can wrap my head around that
feeling. But that's why, evenif you can argue against that, it's
statements like that that continue with thestigma or make it still for some taboo.
Right, I celebrate that though hemay feel that way. I don't.
I look at it and go,you know what good for you?

(11:54):
Well, because you need a client, yeah number one. I need a
client number two. But I'm doingElliot's client strip South Beach. Yeah,
I had a lot going on thatshould be your thing. Like at the
end of the year, you takeall of your the orthodontist, who takes
all of the kids rock wall climbing? Uh? Who does that? Ours
did? Really? Yeah? Withlike parental chaperones or just with like the

(12:20):
office, so you drop the kidsoff there, no parents, No you
could sit in there. I don'tknow. I spent five thousand dollars on
his teeth. He's gonna go.It cost him nothing. And by the
way, he probably hopes the kidfalls and knocks a tooth outand line too.
Hi Ellie in the morning? Yeah, Hi, who's as Hey Elliott?

(12:45):
How are you damn long time lists? The first time caller with up
class? Hey, what's going on? Dude? So much? Uh?
So, I'm I'm a family lawattorney's a divorce lawyer in Maryland. And
uh I heard you talking about dulahs, which is it's funny to you mention
that because there's a couple of yearsago there was this big push for collaborative

(13:07):
law, and divorce coaches became abig thing at that point in time.
At least it came onto my radarat that point in time. Oh really,
But usually there's somebody with some levelof like mental health back. Wait,
so do you mean in terms ofthe the like the person who's doing
it has some kind of like therapeuticnot therapeutic therapy background or training. Yeah,

(13:33):
they're usually like like an LCSW licensedClinical social worker clinician, or maybe
they have a master's in social workor something like that. But usually,
like in collaborative law, there wassome level of accreditation that they would need
in order to qualify as a divorcecoach. And it's usually, you know,
I mean a lot of times we'llget clients who call us who you

(13:54):
know, they're experiencing some kind ofmental health issue, and you know,
it's it's a lot less it's alot more cost effective to call your therapist
than it is to call your lawyer. Absolutely absolutely, And that's no shot
at you. Guys. Listen,the world needs lawyers the but it is
it is much, it is much. I mean, you know this,
you're not the cheapest service in theworld. Well, also not qualified to

(14:20):
deal with your mental health issues.Oh that's a good point too, And
that's where I'm beautiful is I'm notreally qualified as a lawyer, but i
feel like I've been soon enough thatI kind of know the system, and
so I feel good there. AndI'm not qualified really to deal with your
mental health. However, I feellike I'm good at that too, So
this is perfect. So it's likehonorary degrees. Then thank you, thank

(14:45):
you, very good. The aare we going through it? Are we
going through a high time of divorceright now? Yeah? Man, after
the pandemic, it just it.I think the pandemic exacerbated a lot of
people's mental health issues and that hasprobably led to an increase in filing.

(15:05):
It's interesting this this guy that Iknow who's UPO a divorce lawyer. He's
always he's a bit older, andhe's always told me every time that there's
been some kind of thing that's heldback the filing of divorces, there's always
a massive surge that comes afterwards.And he said, COVID is your generation's
you know the version of that,and it's I mean, if you look

(15:26):
at the courthouses, they're all overwhelmed. I mean Montgomery County, Prince George's
County. I mean, they're they'reall doing their best job they can do
given the circumstances. But you know, the number of filings shot up like
crazy, and I mean those statisticsare available through the courthouse. Yeah.

(15:46):
Isn't this the time of year though, when people are given it like,
let's see if we can make itthrough the holidays, and then everybody gets
divorced in January first, Elliott,tell you do you don't stay together for
the kids or nothing? There's notan excuse really, I mean, listen,
is it cheap? No? Butpeople but if they do have younger
kids, they don't want to belike, hey, daddy's moving out.

(16:08):
What does it matter? Oh,what's the good day for daddy to disappee
it? It's not a good day. It's better than doing it, like
right before Christmas? Why does dadhave to move out? Who asked for
the divorce? Could you ask forthe divorce? It was a scenario?
Oh okay, well I guess inthe scenario, the guy's got to move
out. Who asked for the divorce? That's who leaves, especially if you

(16:29):
blind something well and then there's financialdifficulties in there too. You're gonna you're
gonna live together, You're just gonnabe separated. I don't like that.
I don't like that doesn't allow meto be me. Yeah, I gotta
be me all right, very good, very good, Thank you, sir.
So he brought up coaches again.I looked it up. One of
the differences I guess between dulas andcoaches is the duela is a female servant.

(16:52):
No tends to have their own intensehealing journey, so they've been through
it. So you may be moreof a coach, Elliott, if you
are to get in this level.I see what you mean. So the
duel has been through it, doula, you feel like may and I guess
it's not always the case any theproduct of divorce take on a title.

(17:14):
Yeah, but the dula may bespawned from their own situation, and that's
the difference. Renee was wondering whatthe difference between adula and the therapist is,
and that difference is self disclosure,right, and therapy that person who
obviously has been through a lot ofschooling, but that therapist is told,

(17:37):
for the most part, do notbring yourself into this. Ah. Yeah,
no, that's connect on that level. Yeah, So you can't go
into a therapist for the most partand go hey, I'm going through a
divorce and the therapists goes, Ibet it ain't as bad as mine was.
But a doula is all about thatlevel of connection that you're not going
to get in therapy and listen.Therapy is great, but there are a

(17:57):
lot of written and unret rules whenit comes to therapy. I offer all
of it. That's why as adoula, I can service all. Renee
also says, as a divorced personwho believes in marriage, I can tell
you one of people judge you aftergoing through a divorce or if you say
you are a divorced why, shecontinues, I had several friends that wouldn't

(18:18):
even invite me to things because itwould cause problems with odd numbers. Oh
god, Okay, that's different thanbeing divorced. What am I supposed to
do? Pull up an extra chairto look awful? The no? But
I mean, but some of itmay be she may be being a little
a little sensitive some no, no, like if I was saying, okay,

(18:41):
what he worked with the husband?No. No, Let's say Diane
and Scot are divorced, right,Yeah, Well, I'm gonna host couples
Night and have Tyler and Lindsey andKristen and Mike over. I'm not inviting
Diane. Well, there you go. Yeah, no, but she's feeling
excluded. Why couldn't she just becauseshe doesn't have somebody to bring, she
shouldn't be included. If I'm doingcouples night, No, but when I

(19:04):
do divorce as night, they won'tbe invited just you. Yeah, no,
no, like some of that maybe a little like oh I'm primitive
thinking. No, it may bea little what is that saying the lights
in the mirror are a little toobrighter? Whatever that is the but I
guess whatever, I get that.No, No, but you know what
I mean. You wouldn't do like, oh, we're good. Why why

(19:27):
do you have to declare it tobe couples night. Why can't it just
be everybody come over because it's couplesnight? Okay, well I'm busy.
Well, for example, let's sayyou and I already said if you and
Scott get divorced, I'm team Diane. Okay, I'm not having all the
guys over and then inviting Diane.That's ridiculous. He still invite Scott though,
Yeah, probably, I don't wantto fracture that. I mean,

(19:48):
Scott, So you need a clientlike Brandon. When I went no,
when I went to divorce he placehe broke up. Stop. When I
went to divorce court, everyone wascrying and I was so happy, asking
everyone where they wanted to go fora celebratory lunch. Yeah, that to

(20:08):
me is the right attitude. Ido understand the it broke. I'm probably
not the majority of people. You'reprobably right. You're probably right and probably
in it. You don't feel thatway out. Even if you know it's
the best thing and it's not ugly, people are still going to be emotional
about that. Yeah, listen,you don't think that I sit sometimes and

(20:29):
go I'm I'm how six seven monthsaway from being an empty nester. You
don't think I sit in there sometimesand go, boy Jackie. Now,
there's no distraction. The last eighteenyears, all we've had is kids around.
She may hate my guts in aboutsix months, but make it through
Christmas. The No B team ElliottBill Bill Wrights, our counselor, told

(20:53):
my wife if she left before theholidays, they would ruin the kids' memories
forever. See that was the advice. Guin, you got that outside chirping.
She waited until January long fresh start, man, Hey, you know
what's new in twenty twenty four.Half this bed wide open. Don't don't

(21:18):
trust me as a product. Kidsare smarter than you think. My dad
was all right, we'll say notwhen did they I know that can be
so much longer after the separation andafter they've maybe even told you they're going
down that around. It was probablysix seven, But what time of year.

(21:41):
I don't to be honest, Idon't know what time of year it
was. I know exactly where itwas when they told me. I think
you've told us this. I waswalking in the parking lot at the mall
in El Paso going into Dillard's.I was he's a piece of Rye bread,
and my dad told me that theywere getting divorced, and I threw
my bread. Don't you think ifit had been right around No, but

(22:03):
if it had been right around thearound the holidays, you would have been
like right as we were walking pastSanna like that would be tied into it,
by the way, I would betbased on the fact that we were
going to Dillard's. I would betit was around the holidays. Okay,
we never went to the mall.We didn't have money to go shopping.
The I was eating Rye bread.He threw it at the ground or at
your dad. I made a balland I just threw it and then kind

(22:29):
of like, uh, even backthen I had until the no, why
I didn't bottle anything up? Well, Diane suggesting that Hanika should have been
ruined forever for you, and Idon't think it did no enough. I
knew my parents weren't getting along.I knew they were fighting. Not physically,

(22:49):
but I knew that they were fightingeach other. Yeah, so your
dad told you, But did yourmom tell your sister. No? My
sister was with us, had bread? Did she bread? Also got the
bread that day? Her half wason the floor of the party lot.

(23:10):
What was the name of that thatmalll Why would it be called house of
sun? Oh? That's what youwere hoping for, brighter days? Whatever?
The some del soul was the wasthe mall? Yeah, walk right
up to that door in Dillers Icould still say it. See yeah,
oh, but let it roll offyour bag. Boy. I took that

(23:30):
bread, wadded up and threw it. You can you can remember so many
details, right, think of thatand then put it in the middle of
the holidays. You know you don'twant to holidays okay, but I'm just
saying, like, maybe, fortunatelyfor you, it doesn't my favorite time
of year. Fortunately it doesn't cloudit for you. But you don't need
to do that for somebody else.For a kid, No, stay fighting

(23:52):
in front of them. It's muchbetter. No, don't, don't act
stupid. Be be adults. Youcan't kids. No, kids are way
smart. That's in my history.I think we have talked about this all
before. Oh look how disgusting itis. Is it Vista? That's it?
It's still open? They is itreally? You got a j penny
oh airwalks. Yeah, there wego ce Yellow Vista Mall. There's Dillard's.

(24:18):
Is that the entrance? Yes,Oh, that's so sad. Is
that the door you threw the breadat. No, I'm still in the
parking lot. That's the door.We hadn't gotten up there. We were
walking down the aisleway. I crumpledthat up and threw it. I don't
like looking at this now. Wellit doesn't bother me. Yeah, but
can I just see all you said? It's a visual gag. There is

(24:40):
none, so it's it was rightnext to the Macy's. I just remember
we were walking towards the entrance ofDillard's. Yes, yeah, we didn't
shop at Macy's. Who are wethe Rockefellers. Which which row were you
parked in? If you zero mein, I could tell you exactly where
we were. Well, I'm showingyou the Rose cars right outside Dillard's.
No, but I got as mighthave an entrance on this side too,

(25:03):
Oh it does. Oh were youcloser to the seers probably? Yeah,
there's the other end. I knowyou're hearing them all and like, wow,
what part of Beverly Hills were youin? Look? How sad that
is. By the way, thatparking lot is old Passo in a nutshell?

(25:25):
Oh Santas there? Okay? Wasit made even worse by the tagline
El Pasos go to family shopping destination. Hi Ellie in the morning. Hi,
Yeah, Hi, here's this.Hi. This is Lauren. I'm

(25:48):
from Maryland. Oh, yes,what can I do for you? I
was just laughing about what you guyswere talking about, with people leaving each
other on holidays, and uh,my mom left my dad on Christmas morning
after he broke his legs flooding withmy brother. Oh my god, I

(26:08):
talked about I talked to her aboutthis later and she was like, yeah,
it's the only time I could getout. I thought he was gonna
go crazy, so I just left. So he broke his leg and she
was like, I'm breaking this marriageand went up. Yep. We packed
up on Christmas morning and I justremember looking at the window with him like

(26:29):
on crutches, and I'm just like, oh my god, it's like a
movie. Hey, can I askyou this? Though? You knew that
they weren't getting along, right,Oh yeah, I mean I was probably
like eight or nine, but yeah, we knew, yeah, exactly exactly.
You knew it was a little volatile. So probably for the best,
exactly. It was definitely one ofthose for the book's memories where it's like,

(26:52):
yeah, actually, every Christmas isbetter now not having that experience.
Yeah, exactly, thank you,thank you only going up for me.
What are we looking at now?The features a lot has changed in I
haven't lived there in forever, andI get that. And then there may
be a food court with a littlesmaller storefronts, but the three featured restaurants

(27:15):
at your mall in i'l Paso,Olive Garden, right, Red, Lobster
Beautiful, and Hooters. We definitelydidn't have a Hooters there. That's nice
though, Like, that's nice mallHooters? Is that a thing? The
ugh, No, it's not inthe mall. Maybe is it attached,

(27:37):
but maybe it's in like the littledrive around there and you click dining at
the clos Yeah, it's a thousanddegrees there, so they're probably using the
air conditioning from inside the mall.Or maybe it's just like a standalone in
the parking lot. Oh, thatcould be, but that was not there
when you were younger. No,no, no no no. First time

(27:59):
a hand gray my penis over mypants was at Yellow vistaball good memories?
Is that it Wetzels pretzels, wetzelspantsils. Oh Regina kN you dirty,

(28:22):
dirty girl, stop saying my name. Zero chance her parents are stilled together.
All right, let's do this.But what stigma am I? Yeah,