November 12, 2025 • 23 mins
On one family's school board fight to keep a student and service dog together.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is the story there?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
So they went in front of the school board last
night because this child who is in sixth grade is
it Chickahamany Middle School?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
What grade is he in? Sixth sixth grade?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Sixth grade? His name's Charlie, I believe suffers from a
pretty severe panic disorder. But then there's also autistic right,
and so the family has a service animal that they
would like to have with him in class.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yes, I have a question.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Okay, no, no, no, like is the the service animal?
I understand is he is it? Is it for comfort
or is it for warning?
Speaker 4 (00:41):
It sounds like it calms him down.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, okay, because in some cases they can detect a
panic attack coming on, the dogs can't, right, So they
went to the school board to get had the school
said he can have a service dog.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, they've already been going back and forth with the
school system. They were in front of the school board
last night. There maybe people who were at that meeting
who are listening, right.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
And where's this Chickahominy Middle School in Hanover? Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
The problem is the family says that either Charlie's mother
or father needs to be the dog's handler. Charlie cannot
be the handler himself, the school says.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And Charlie's the little boy. Yes, yes, right.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
The school says, parents can't be the service animal handlers.
We have no problem with the animals being in. It's
obviously permitted by law. We can have staff that work
with the dog and have like shifts with the dog
throughout the day, but the parents can't be in. The
(02:02):
parents have come back and said that Canine Companions, which
I believe was the company they got the dog through
their contract with this outfit, the insurance on the dog
is based on a certified handler being with the dog
at all times, which somebody from the school would not be.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
And again, Charlie, people have seen service animals in schools
and they're often with the student.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right, Charlie can't handle the dog, can't.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Handle the dog.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So the school said.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
We would have a staffer do it.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
Yes, but that wouldn't go by the agreement they had
made when they got the dog with the Canine Companion.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Canine Companion says it has to be somebody that's certified, yes,
and nobody at the school is. So the school says,
we'll have somebody do it, and the parents are like, no,
we need to do it, and the school said you
can't be in the school.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, the school says you cannot have a parent in
the classroom. It's a distraction.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
And I was just trying to think, like, they can't
be in the.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Hallway, so they'd have to be in the class, right,
they'd have to be sitting by Charlie.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I'm assuming, Yeah, the division wouldn't it be?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Can I ask you an honest question, because I do
get that having a parent in there initially, but aren't
we over that distraction.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
In a week?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The division does not support the extended presence of parents
or guardians accompanying their children in classrooms during the instructional
day when it can reasonably interfere with and fundamentally alter
the operation of the learning environment.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Again, I get that it's a distraction for a week.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Oh but you think eventually the kids are going to
get over it. Yeah, it'll just be that. It will
just be normal that the parents in the classroom.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But you can understand why that is on the books
because I do think it could be abused.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Oh yeah, like there was if he knew a kid
who was just he was just as scared to be
away from his parents.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
What did they call that?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Not home separation and anxiety?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah, I don't know whatever it is, but like he
couldn't be away from he couldn't be away from his parent.
He was scared to be away from his parents, and
so like all the way through like seventh or eighth grade,
his mom would sit outside the window, like would sit
outside the school so he could look out the window.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And see his mommy.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, see she was there.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
You want to talk about a distraction, that was a.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Distracted mom outside.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, because he's well, he'd spend the whole time crane
in his neck. And then I think part of it
was also to not be able to hear what everybody
was saying. But like at some point you're like, come on,
Like you're in seventh and eighth grade, You're not like,
oh I miss my mommy. So I do understand where
people would abuse it because that mommy would have gone inside.
(04:56):
So I understand that. But are we also able to tell, well,
the difference between this little Chucky is missus his mommy
and this kid's got panic attacks.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But that could be a symptom of the separation. I'm
just saying I understand.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I can draw.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I understand that you want to make an exception, but
they do have a rule, and the rule also prevents
a third party. The family also said, okay, if it's
not a parent can be a third party.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
So it can't be like somebody from Canine Companions or
something that you can't do. So it's either staff or nothing.
And I believe I got to say, I'm surprised they
said staff would do it.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, they even said, I believe I read this. I
think the superintendent offered to have whichever staff is part
of this handling go through that you're training. Oh wow,
specifically outlined by Canine Companions. I think they offered that,
and I'd love to hear because I don't see just
(05:57):
a couple of articles. And again I didn't see it
like the transcript or video from last night's meeting. What
is the family's response to that?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Can I ask a question? Are the people are the listen?
I get wanting to protect your kid. I get that,
And this isn't a case of like you know, little
Chucky misses his mommy, Like, I get that, But are
the parents and you want to side with the parents, right,
you want to go listen, they're just trying to protect
(06:26):
their kid. They want him to not have panic attacks.
He has a service dog. The only way we can
have the service dog is for us. So I understand
where the parents are coming from. Now I also understand
where the school is coming from. Are people are people
saying that the parents are being too kareny?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I haven't necessarily seen that. This is why I want
someone who was at this school board meeting.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
Because this said that the family was encouraged because a
lot of people spoke out on their behalf last night.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, well I don't think anybody would speak out against
them and go no, you know what, tough crass.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
So maybe not to suck it off.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Maybe the more attention this is getting is going to
press the school board to come up with a better solution.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
But what is what is the other solution?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
But the school is also pushing back on this idea.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Of just making this exception.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
There's a narrative that they're not allowing a service.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Animal, and they're saying, no, we are on allowing.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Outlined manners in which this can happen. Right, They're choosing
not to bring the service animal in.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
And so the question was if the school offered them
the right, or the ability to train a staffer to
be with the dog that went through the training of
the canine companions.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yes, what would the parents say? Do you have the parents' names?
Does it say in.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
There it's the it's the Christ's family.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yes, it's Matt and Angie mine three.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Hey Matt, good morning. This is Matt Craig. Hey, we
were just talking about your family.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
My phone just blew up that you guys were talking
about me. So I thought I would call in and
see if I could answer any questions or send some light.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Well, first of all, I appreciate the phone called number one.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Number two is I'm trying to wrap my head around
the whole thing. So if I sound stupid or I
say something.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Wrong, no, I'm not mad. Number three So just so
I have it right.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
So, Charlie's autistic and Charlie suffers from panic disorder. Correct, Yes,
that's correct, and the dog is there to comfort Charlie.
Can the dog tell when a panic attack is coming on?
Speaker 6 (08:41):
So one thing related to that is we have only
been placed with this dog for about three months now,
so eventually, yet the dog will be able to pick
up on Charlie's behaviors when his body is omitting different
odors that come with panic attacks and other changes inside
(09:04):
his body that we as humans cannot see or observe. Right,
that's the concept of medical alert dogs with diabetics or seizures. Sure,
when there's an onset of high levels of stress and
anxiety that are about to exhibit outwardly, the dogs will
be able to sense that before we can.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So that we're not there yet.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
I understand they have only been with the dog for
about three months.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So let me understand this. If I have it right,
I'll try to go quick.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Number one, so the request was for Charlie to be
able to bring his service dog to school with him.
Number two, Charlie himself can't handle the dog, so you
or your wife would have to be there during the
day with the dog and Charlie so that the dog
is there with Charlie. The school says, listen, we have
(09:55):
no problem with service dogs. We have service dogs here
or schools have service dogs.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
That's okay.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
However, we can't allow a parent to be in the room.
That's a rule that we can't have parents in there.
It's a distraction. And then whatever other reasons go along
with that. The school then says, hey, we can get
a staff member to do it, and we'll train the
staff member through K nine Companions so that they know
how to operate and work with the dogs.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Is all of that true.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
To an extent. The one piece that's missing is the
parent being either Angie, my wife, or myself. We are
the only two handlers at this time because we are
the only two that have gone through the training with
Canine Companions. So we are offering hanover County schools in
(10:48):
immediate solution, and a solution that would cost them nothing.
The other option that they have if they have a
problem with a parent being inside the class room for
whatever reason, is to provide a one on one aid,
just like you do with dozens and dozens of other
children in the county that have disabilities, and this one
(11:12):
on one aid will go through the training through Canine
Companions that will be completely free of charge. Canine Companions
is offering to do that at no expense to the county,
but that one on one aid would need to be
entirely serving no other purpose other than being the service
dog handler. And the situation is Charlie cannot handle the
(11:35):
leash on his own and can I do it for
the entire school day. And the service dog is it
one that you can just tether and tie to a
light pole and leave it there. Someone has to be
on the other end of that leash at all times,
and it has to be someone that is properly trained
and capable of keeping that animal under control. So while
(11:57):
the parent is the one aspect of it, but it's
not the only available option. And the other part that
is getting lost in all of this is we have
a twelve year old child who is suffering right now.
He's not attending school at the moment, and we're not
being given any other solutions to help this child immediately.
(12:20):
So while there's a legal aspect, there's a pr aspect
for the school, at the end of the day, it's
all about the child and the child is not able
to access his education that he is entitled to have.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
And what are we.
Speaker 6 (12:36):
Going to do collectively to ensure that this child can
learn that is effective for him? And let's collaborate together
and figure out what that solution looks like. Hey, Ma,
there's been multiple emails that have gone unanswered and we're
just not getting anywhere at all.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Matt, let me ask you this how long does it
take if Canine Companions was going to train somebody, how long?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
How long is that training period?
Speaker 6 (13:03):
So for my wife and I it was two weeks.
I didn't I do not believe that the county employees
would have to go through a full two week course
because the first few days we did not even have
Wendy assigned to us at the time. It was just
you know, them observing which dog would be best for
Charlie in our situation. Obviously the county employees wouldn't need
(13:24):
to go through that process. But those conversations have not
even gotten that far to determine how long.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It would take.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
But you know, it's a it would be a short
amount of.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Time, so okay, because I was just I was just
trying to think, like what happens during let's let's let's
say they were going to train somebody and give you
that there's still a training process of you know, a week,
ten days, whatever it is that somebody. I don't know,
maybe at that point, for Charlie doesn't go to school
for ten days.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I don't want to speak for Charlie, but when I
was in sixth grade, I would welcome that all day.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
But that's still but that's still a gap, right that
that isn't that isn't being covered.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
So where does where does this where? Do?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I feel bad for Charlie. I feel horrible for Charlie.
What is the so what is what is the outcome?
Like what something ends up having to happen? Yeah, and
we we don't know.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
So we have exhausted every possible resource at Hanover County Schools.
This process has been going on since before school started.
It's not like we made a rash decision and just
threw this on the school at the last minute. The
Charlie has been on the wait list to receive a
service dog for almost three years before he was placed
(14:37):
with Wendy. It is fully trained service dog. It's not
an animal that was picked up at a kennel and trained.
It is through a legitimate organization. It is a fully
trained service dog. It's not a therapy dog. It's not
emotional support animal. Canine Companions is the largest service dog
(15:01):
placement agency in the United States. This is their fiftieth
year in existence. They're nationally acclaimed and the situation is
Hannover County is recognizing that this service dog is legitimate
and Charlie does have a legitimate disability and a legitimate
(15:23):
need for the service dog with him in school. That's
why they're allowing the service dog in the first place
with Charlie. If there were any questions about any of
those points, they would not allow Charlie to bring the
dog in himself. The question is all centered around the handler.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
The handler of the dog. Hold on, Yes, Tyler.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Our other service dog providers not as strict in their
insurance policies.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
I do not know. I can't speak to other service
dog organizations because I have not interacted with them where
it comes down with the insurance policies. And why that
has even been brought up in the first place is
because we do have a contract with Canine Companions that
I know is common practice across the service dog industry,
(16:17):
and and Canine Companions owns Wendy and will always own
Wendy until Wendy retires or passes away. So we are
bound by the terms of those contracts, and that contract
states that Matt Krites and Anti Crites are the two
handlers of service dog Wendy at this time and they
(16:41):
must have a handler at all times while in public spaces. Now,
I gave you the names Matt Krites and Anti Crites.
We would love to have more names added to that
list of Hanover County School employees that could become handlers,
and then the insurance would cover any sort of mishap.
(17:04):
But what the school system is asking us to do
right now is to ignore that piece of the Americans
with Disabilities Act about the dog having to be under
the control of its handler, And they're asking us to
ignore the contract that we have with Kanine Companions that
the liability.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
You can't do that, correct. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
If your luck is like mine, you know what happens
the second I sign off, Wendy turns into Kujo and
now all of a sudden, I'm paying for I'm out
of pocket on everything, and I lose the dog.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
Yeah, and I really don't think that would happen. That's
obviously extreme. You know, Wendy is extremely well trained, well behaved.
You know, it's it's incredible if you see pictures or
videos of her at these school board meetings or in
other public spaces.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Oh, I'm sure I was just making an example. You
don't need.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
That's the last thing you need is one bad day.
The second you go like, well, we just kind of
ignored what was in there because you know what the
repercussions are.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
Well, and at the end of the day, it is
still a living, breathing animal. And Elliott, I know you
are a dog lover.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
More than anybody in the world, sir. That's what I hear.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
And it's still a dog. And so if because I
have the proper training, I know where to place the
dog when it needs to lay down for an extended
period of time. You know, worst case scenario Charlie were
to have her lay in an inappropriate area and she
gets run over by a cart What is that dog
(18:41):
going to do if cart wheel runs over it's tire
is going to naturally turn around and snap, you know,
or it could Those are the sorts of things that
the insurance policy would cover incidents like that, but only if.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
We are if you're the hand with the.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
Terms of our contract.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Hold on Time had a question, yes, Tyler, but if
Keenan Companions is as expansive an outfit as you described,
there's no way that Charlie is the first in school
student who cannot be the primary handler of their dog.
Have other school districts just been more accommodating.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
Yes, we have heard multiple examples of school districts A
allowing parents in and or be training their employees to
be the handler. There are also scenarios where the child
does not have their service dog available to them during
(19:42):
the school day at school. We have tried that this
school year, you know, and I'll go back to my
previous statement about the child is suffering and that is
not working well. Charlie is not doing well, and so
that's where.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Something has to give.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
We need some sort of resolution, whether it be the parents,
whether it be a one on one aid, whether it
be placement in a private school for children with disabilities,
whether it be an online or homebound type experience. Something
needs to happen to ensure this child is able to
(20:24):
receive an education.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
And my guess is there's nobody at like Canine Companions
because like, like, like Tyler Aston you said, Charlie is
not the only kid who deal who's had to deal
with this, and Canine Companions doesn't have somebody or a
group of people that they train and go, Okay, there's
a bunch of jobs at Canine Companions. Part of me
(20:46):
is making this up, but follow me. We have people
who when we run into this problem. They go to
school every day with the kid, so they haven't been dolt. Yeah, Oh,
there we go, no third parties, there we go.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So there's the problem.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
Yeah, yep, they've they've you know, we we've also asked
about that, you know, and hiring our own independent aid
uh to come in to be the dog handler, you know.
Not that we would be able to pull that off
right away, We don't know, but we just threw that
out there as a talking point and idea, and that
(21:20):
conversation was immediately shut down as well.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Well, Matt, I feel like I'm gonna have to put
this over in the tough Titty file.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I'm not exactly sure.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I don't know how we end. I don't know how
we end. I can't imagine. I'm frustrated. I can't imagine
how you and your wife feel.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
Yeah, and again, it's gone on for a very long time,
and we still don't have an end in sight. But
we will see where things end up.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Where So, where does it stand right now?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
They're at the school board meeting at the school board.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
But so the school board meeting ends, and then it
doesn't seem like we we got anywhere.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
No board did not address our concerns. Then they have
not responded to my last several communications going back several weeks.
It's been nearly a month since we've had any sort
of communication regarding the service dog period.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Who knows, I don't. I don't like leaving it like that,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 6 (22:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
No, I mean you probably hated a lot more than
I do.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
I get that, but I think Charlie hates it the most,
and that's the one that we really need to be
looking for sure, out for it right now.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Sure, now, I understand that, and you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
But all the major news stations in Richmond covered this
story yesterday, so that's got to be on their side
in terms of press helping them out.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I hope so, I hope so, Matt. You'll keep us updated, Yes, sir,
I will.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
I will be your correspondent down here in Richmond around
the situation.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
The Charlie and the service Dog correspondent. That's you.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Some will call you dad, but you'll be our official correspondent, Matt.
I appreciate the time, Thanks for calling, brother, Thank you, Elliet.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Appreciate it.
What is the story there?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
So they went in front of the school board last
night because this child who is in sixth grade is
it Chickahamany Middle School?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
What grade is he in? Sixth sixth grade?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Sixth grade? His name's Charlie, I believe suffers from a
pretty severe panic disorder. But then there's also autistic right,
and so the family has a service animal that they
would like to have with him in class.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yes, I have a question.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Okay, no, no, no, like is the the service animal?
I understand is he is it? Is it for comfort
or is it for warning?
Speaker 4 (00:41):
It sounds like it calms him down.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, okay, because in some cases they can detect a
panic attack coming on, the dogs can't, right, So they
went to the school board to get had the school
said he can have a service dog.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, they've already been going back and forth with the
school system. They were in front of the school board
last night. There maybe people who were at that meeting
who are listening, right.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
And where's this Chickahominy Middle School in Hanover? Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
The problem is the family says that either Charlie's mother
or father needs to be the dog's handler. Charlie cannot
be the handler himself, the school says.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And Charlie's the little boy. Yes, yes, right.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
The school says, parents can't be the service animal handlers.
We have no problem with the animals being in. It's
obviously permitted by law. We can have staff that work
with the dog and have like shifts with the dog
throughout the day, but the parents can't be in. The
(02:02):
parents have come back and said that Canine Companions, which
I believe was the company they got the dog through
their contract with this outfit, the insurance on the dog
is based on a certified handler being with the dog
at all times, which somebody from the school would not be.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
And again, Charlie, people have seen service animals in schools
and they're often with the student.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Right, Charlie can't handle the dog, can't.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Handle the dog.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So the school said.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
We would have a staffer do it.
Speaker 5 (02:39):
Yes, but that wouldn't go by the agreement they had
made when they got the dog with the Canine Companion.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Canine Companion says it has to be somebody that's certified, yes,
and nobody at the school is. So the school says,
we'll have somebody do it, and the parents are like, no,
we need to do it, and the school said you
can't be in the school.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yes, the school says you cannot have a parent in
the classroom. It's a distraction.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
And I was just trying to think, like, they can't
be in the.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Hallway, so they'd have to be in the class, right,
they'd have to be sitting by Charlie.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I'm assuming, Yeah, the division wouldn't it be?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Can I ask you an honest question, because I do
get that having a parent in there initially, but aren't
we over that distraction.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
In a week?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
The division does not support the extended presence of parents
or guardians accompanying their children in classrooms during the instructional
day when it can reasonably interfere with and fundamentally alter
the operation of the learning environment.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Again, I get that it's a distraction for a week.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
Oh but you think eventually the kids are going to
get over it. Yeah, it'll just be that. It will
just be normal that the parents in the classroom.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
But you can understand why that is on the books
because I do think it could be abused.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Oh yeah, like there was if he knew a kid
who was just he was just as scared to be
away from his parents.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
What did they call that?
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Not home separation and anxiety?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah, I don't know whatever it is, but like he
couldn't be away from he couldn't be away from his parent.
He was scared to be away from his parents, and
so like all the way through like seventh or eighth grade,
his mom would sit outside the window, like would sit
outside the school so he could look out the window.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And see his mommy.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Yeah, see she was there.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
You want to talk about a distraction, that was a.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Distracted mom outside.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, because he's well, he'd spend the whole time crane
in his neck. And then I think part of it
was also to not be able to hear what everybody
was saying. But like at some point you're like, come on,
Like you're in seventh and eighth grade, You're not like,
oh I miss my mommy. So I do understand where
people would abuse it because that mommy would have gone inside.
(04:56):
So I understand that. But are we also able to tell, well,
the difference between this little Chucky is missus his mommy
and this kid's got panic attacks.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But that could be a symptom of the separation. I'm
just saying I understand.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I can draw.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I understand that you want to make an exception, but
they do have a rule, and the rule also prevents
a third party. The family also said, okay, if it's
not a parent can be a third party.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
So it can't be like somebody from Canine Companions or
something that you can't do. So it's either staff or nothing.
And I believe I got to say, I'm surprised they
said staff would do it.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, they even said, I believe I read this. I
think the superintendent offered to have whichever staff is part
of this handling go through that you're training. Oh wow,
specifically outlined by Canine Companions. I think they offered that,
and I'd love to hear because I don't see just
(05:57):
a couple of articles. And again I didn't see it
like the transcript or video from last night's meeting. What
is the family's response to that?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Can I ask a question? Are the people are the listen?
I get wanting to protect your kid. I get that,
And this isn't a case of like you know, little
Chucky misses his mommy, Like, I get that, But are
the parents and you want to side with the parents, right,
you want to go listen, they're just trying to protect
(06:26):
their kid. They want him to not have panic attacks.
He has a service dog. The only way we can
have the service dog is for us. So I understand
where the parents are coming from. Now I also understand
where the school is coming from. Are people are people
saying that the parents are being too kareny?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I haven't necessarily seen that. This is why I want
someone who was at this school board meeting.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
Because this said that the family was encouraged because a
lot of people spoke out on their behalf last night.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Yeah, well I don't think anybody would speak out against
them and go no, you know what, tough crass.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
So maybe not to suck it off.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Maybe the more attention this is getting is going to
press the school board to come up with a better solution.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
But what is what is the other solution?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
But the school is also pushing back on this idea.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Of just making this exception.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
There's a narrative that they're not allowing a service.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Animal, and they're saying, no, we are on allowing.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Outlined manners in which this can happen. Right, They're choosing
not to bring the service animal in.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
And so the question was if the school offered them
the right, or the ability to train a staffer to
be with the dog that went through the training of
the canine companions.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yes, what would the parents say? Do you have the parents' names?
Does it say in.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
There it's the it's the Christ's family.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yes, it's Matt and Angie mine three.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Hey Matt, good morning. This is Matt Craig. Hey, we
were just talking about your family.
Speaker 6 (08:05):
My phone just blew up that you guys were talking
about me. So I thought I would call in and
see if I could answer any questions or send some light.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Well, first of all, I appreciate the phone called number one.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Number two is I'm trying to wrap my head around
the whole thing. So if I sound stupid or I
say something.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Wrong, no, I'm not mad. Number three So just so
I have it right.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
So, Charlie's autistic and Charlie suffers from panic disorder. Correct, Yes,
that's correct, and the dog is there to comfort Charlie.
Can the dog tell when a panic attack is coming on?
Speaker 6 (08:41):
So one thing related to that is we have only
been placed with this dog for about three months now,
so eventually, yet the dog will be able to pick
up on Charlie's behaviors when his body is omitting different
odors that come with panic attacks and other changes inside
(09:04):
his body that we as humans cannot see or observe. Right,
that's the concept of medical alert dogs with diabetics or seizures. Sure,
when there's an onset of high levels of stress and
anxiety that are about to exhibit outwardly, the dogs will
be able to sense that before we can.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So that we're not there yet.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
I understand they have only been with the dog for
about three months.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So let me understand this. If I have it right,
I'll try to go quick.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Number one, so the request was for Charlie to be
able to bring his service dog to school with him.
Number two, Charlie himself can't handle the dog, so you
or your wife would have to be there during the
day with the dog and Charlie so that the dog
is there with Charlie. The school says, listen, we have
(09:55):
no problem with service dogs. We have service dogs here
or schools have service dogs.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
That's okay.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
However, we can't allow a parent to be in the room.
That's a rule that we can't have parents in there.
It's a distraction. And then whatever other reasons go along
with that. The school then says, hey, we can get
a staff member to do it, and we'll train the
staff member through K nine Companions so that they know
how to operate and work with the dogs.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Is all of that true.
Speaker 6 (10:25):
To an extent. The one piece that's missing is the
parent being either Angie, my wife, or myself. We are
the only two handlers at this time because we are
the only two that have gone through the training with
Canine Companions. So we are offering hanover County schools in
(10:48):
immediate solution, and a solution that would cost them nothing.
The other option that they have if they have a
problem with a parent being inside the class room for
whatever reason, is to provide a one on one aid,
just like you do with dozens and dozens of other
children in the county that have disabilities, and this one
(11:12):
on one aid will go through the training through Canine
Companions that will be completely free of charge. Canine Companions
is offering to do that at no expense to the county,
but that one on one aid would need to be
entirely serving no other purpose other than being the service
dog handler. And the situation is Charlie cannot handle the
(11:35):
leash on his own and can I do it for
the entire school day. And the service dog is it
one that you can just tether and tie to a
light pole and leave it there. Someone has to be
on the other end of that leash at all times,
and it has to be someone that is properly trained
and capable of keeping that animal under control. So while
(11:57):
the parent is the one aspect of it, but it's
not the only available option. And the other part that
is getting lost in all of this is we have
a twelve year old child who is suffering right now.
He's not attending school at the moment, and we're not
being given any other solutions to help this child immediately.
(12:20):
So while there's a legal aspect, there's a pr aspect
for the school, at the end of the day, it's
all about the child and the child is not able
to access his education that he is entitled to have.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
And what are we.
Speaker 6 (12:36):
Going to do collectively to ensure that this child can
learn that is effective for him? And let's collaborate together
and figure out what that solution looks like. Hey, Ma,
there's been multiple emails that have gone unanswered and we're
just not getting anywhere at all.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Matt, let me ask you this how long does it
take if Canine Companions was going to train somebody, how long?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
How long is that training period?
Speaker 6 (13:03):
So for my wife and I it was two weeks.
I didn't I do not believe that the county employees
would have to go through a full two week course
because the first few days we did not even have
Wendy assigned to us at the time. It was just
you know, them observing which dog would be best for
Charlie in our situation. Obviously the county employees wouldn't need
(13:24):
to go through that process. But those conversations have not
even gotten that far to determine how long.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
It would take.
Speaker 6 (13:32):
But you know, it's a it would be a short
amount of.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Time, so okay, because I was just I was just
trying to think, like what happens during let's let's let's
say they were going to train somebody and give you
that there's still a training process of you know, a week,
ten days, whatever it is that somebody. I don't know,
maybe at that point, for Charlie doesn't go to school
for ten days.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I don't want to speak for Charlie, but when I
was in sixth grade, I would welcome that all day.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
But that's still but that's still a gap, right that
that isn't that isn't being covered.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
So where does where does this where? Do?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like?
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I feel bad for Charlie. I feel horrible for Charlie.
What is the so what is what is the outcome?
Like what something ends up having to happen? Yeah, and
we we don't know.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
So we have exhausted every possible resource at Hanover County Schools.
This process has been going on since before school started.
It's not like we made a rash decision and just
threw this on the school at the last minute. The
Charlie has been on the wait list to receive a
service dog for almost three years before he was placed
(14:37):
with Wendy. It is fully trained service dog. It's not
an animal that was picked up at a kennel and trained.
It is through a legitimate organization. It is a fully
trained service dog. It's not a therapy dog. It's not
emotional support animal. Canine Companions is the largest service dog
(15:01):
placement agency in the United States. This is their fiftieth
year in existence. They're nationally acclaimed and the situation is
Hannover County is recognizing that this service dog is legitimate
and Charlie does have a legitimate disability and a legitimate
(15:23):
need for the service dog with him in school. That's
why they're allowing the service dog in the first place
with Charlie. If there were any questions about any of
those points, they would not allow Charlie to bring the
dog in himself. The question is all centered around the handler.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
The handler of the dog. Hold on, Yes, Tyler.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Our other service dog providers not as strict in their
insurance policies.
Speaker 6 (15:53):
I do not know. I can't speak to other service
dog organizations because I have not interacted with them where
it comes down with the insurance policies. And why that
has even been brought up in the first place is
because we do have a contract with Canine Companions that
I know is common practice across the service dog industry,
(16:17):
and and Canine Companions owns Wendy and will always own
Wendy until Wendy retires or passes away. So we are
bound by the terms of those contracts, and that contract
states that Matt Krites and Anti Crites are the two
handlers of service dog Wendy at this time and they
(16:41):
must have a handler at all times while in public spaces. Now,
I gave you the names Matt Krites and Anti Crites.
We would love to have more names added to that
list of Hanover County School employees that could become handlers,
and then the insurance would cover any sort of mishap.
(17:04):
But what the school system is asking us to do
right now is to ignore that piece of the Americans
with Disabilities Act about the dog having to be under
the control of its handler, And they're asking us to
ignore the contract that we have with Kanine Companions that
the liability.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
You can't do that, correct. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
If your luck is like mine, you know what happens
the second I sign off, Wendy turns into Kujo and
now all of a sudden, I'm paying for I'm out
of pocket on everything, and I lose the dog.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
Yeah, and I really don't think that would happen. That's
obviously extreme. You know, Wendy is extremely well trained, well behaved.
You know, it's it's incredible if you see pictures or
videos of her at these school board meetings or in
other public spaces.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Oh, I'm sure I was just making an example. You
don't need.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
That's the last thing you need is one bad day.
The second you go like, well, we just kind of
ignored what was in there because you know what the
repercussions are.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
Well, and at the end of the day, it is
still a living, breathing animal. And Elliott, I know you
are a dog lover.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
More than anybody in the world, sir. That's what I hear.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
And it's still a dog. And so if because I
have the proper training, I know where to place the
dog when it needs to lay down for an extended
period of time. You know, worst case scenario Charlie were
to have her lay in an inappropriate area and she
gets run over by a cart What is that dog
(18:41):
going to do if cart wheel runs over it's tire
is going to naturally turn around and snap, you know,
or it could Those are the sorts of things that
the insurance policy would cover incidents like that, but only if.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
We are if you're the hand with the.
Speaker 6 (18:58):
Terms of our contract.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Hold on Time had a question, yes, Tyler, but if
Keenan Companions is as expansive an outfit as you described,
there's no way that Charlie is the first in school
student who cannot be the primary handler of their dog.
Have other school districts just been more accommodating.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
Yes, we have heard multiple examples of school districts A
allowing parents in and or be training their employees to
be the handler. There are also scenarios where the child
does not have their service dog available to them during
(19:42):
the school day at school. We have tried that this
school year, you know, and I'll go back to my
previous statement about the child is suffering and that is
not working well. Charlie is not doing well, and so
that's where.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Something has to give.
Speaker 6 (20:03):
We need some sort of resolution, whether it be the parents,
whether it be a one on one aid, whether it
be placement in a private school for children with disabilities,
whether it be an online or homebound type experience. Something
needs to happen to ensure this child is able to
(20:24):
receive an education.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
And my guess is there's nobody at like Canine Companions
because like, like, like Tyler Aston you said, Charlie is
not the only kid who deal who's had to deal
with this, and Canine Companions doesn't have somebody or a
group of people that they train and go, Okay, there's
a bunch of jobs at Canine Companions. Part of me
(20:46):
is making this up, but follow me. We have people
who when we run into this problem. They go to
school every day with the kid, so they haven't been dolt. Yeah, Oh,
there we go, no third parties, there we go.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So there's the problem.
Speaker 6 (20:59):
Yeah, yep, they've they've you know, we we've also asked
about that, you know, and hiring our own independent aid
uh to come in to be the dog handler, you know.
Not that we would be able to pull that off
right away, We don't know, but we just threw that
out there as a talking point and idea, and that
(21:20):
conversation was immediately shut down as well.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Well, Matt, I feel like I'm gonna have to put
this over in the tough Titty file.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
I'm not exactly sure.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I don't know how we end. I don't know how
we end. I can't imagine. I'm frustrated. I can't imagine
how you and your wife feel.
Speaker 6 (21:36):
Yeah, and again, it's gone on for a very long time,
and we still don't have an end in sight. But
we will see where things end up.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Where So, where does it stand right now?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
They're at the school board meeting at the school board.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
But so the school board meeting ends, and then it
doesn't seem like we we got anywhere.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
No board did not address our concerns. Then they have
not responded to my last several communications going back several weeks.
It's been nearly a month since we've had any sort
of communication regarding the service dog period.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Who knows, I don't. I don't like leaving it like that,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 6 (22:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
No, I mean you probably hated a lot more than
I do.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
I get that, but I think Charlie hates it the most,
and that's the one that we really need to be
looking for sure, out for it right now.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Sure, now, I understand that, and you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
But all the major news stations in Richmond covered this
story yesterday, so that's got to be on their side
in terms of press helping them out.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I hope so, I hope so, Matt. You'll keep us updated, Yes, sir,
I will.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
I will be your correspondent down here in Richmond around
the situation.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
The Charlie and the service Dog correspondent. That's you.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Some will call you dad, but you'll be our official correspondent, Matt.
I appreciate the time, Thanks for calling, brother, Thank you, Elliet.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Appreciate it.
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