Dougal Sutherland: Umbrella Wellbeing Clinical Psychologist on hate and negativity in texts, social media comments

Everyone has an opinion and as technology has progressed, it’s become easier and easier for people to make their opinions known. 

And while this has allowed for greater communication and debate around various topics, it’s also allowed for people to share waves of vitriol, hatred, and unhelpful commentary. 

Clinical Psychologist Dr Dougal Sutherland told Kerre Woodham that with social media, it’s very easy for us to be an “expert” in everything. 

“We have a whole lot of information fed to us – we don’t necessarily digest it, but we can say very quickly what we think is right or wrong.” 

In comparison to calling into something like talkback radio, social media and texting is instant, allowing people to fire off their five cents and move on. 

“Then you’ve got this personal investment,” Sutherland told Woodham. 

“Your adrenaline’s going, you’re part of the story ... then someone says something, and you’re already riled up.” 

“I think we’re being shaped by social media to react strongly, because that’s the thing that gets likes, and that’s the thing that gets ratings, and that’s the things that get, y’know, the algorithm working.” 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Carry Wood and Morning's podcast from
News Talks he'd be.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
I opened the show talking about the bile and the
sewage filling, the text machine and social media, and Jerry
sent in a text who we did talk to? He says,
what you're saying is a systemic issue with the New
Zealand's population. We're all experts after the fact, whether it's
ocean Gate, the housing crisis, the government, even the rugby.

(00:34):
It's disappointing to hear that New Zealanders are so divided
on this. I truly wish New Zealand would take a
step forward and grow up. I think we're so far
isolated from the bigger issues in the world that are
own ten cents worth we think actually matters. Dr Dougal
Sutherland is a clinical psychologist for Umbrella Well Being and
he joins me, now, good morning to you.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Good morning carry and thanks for the invitation to come on.
That was completely at your request, if not mine, And
I'm not getting paid for this either, in case people
wonder that actually.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
We should be specific about that too. Thank you very
much for your time. What have we always been like this?
I remember reading a Listener article that did exit polls
dating back from the Bulger years which showed that New
Zealanders were a lot less comfortable about things like race
and gender politics than perhaps we assumed they were. The

(01:28):
way we paint ourselves as a liberal, open minded nation.
Have we always been a little bit tribal, a little bit,
a little bit reluctant, a little bit mistrustful of the mediah.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
I don't know if we've been mistrustful of the media.
I think we've perhaps always had our opinions about various things.
But you know, twenty years ago we would have just
sort of talked about them down in the pub or
in your kitchen or you know, around the dinner table.
But I think the ability to have your two cents

(02:04):
or ten cents worth, or of the many sense its.
It is so much easier now with social media, and
I think there was some I kind of agree with
some of the previous texts that you read out around.
It's very easy for us to have to be an
expert in everything. You know, we have a whole lot
of information fed to us. We don't necessarily digest it,

(02:26):
but we can say very quickly what we think is
right or wrong. Even back in the day when we
had talk back, and I know there is still a
lot of talkback, but there was still a longer process.
You know, you had to ring the number and talk
to somebody and wait. You know, social media and text
is so immediate that you can fire off your you know,

(02:48):
your five cents worth and away you go. And then
you've got this personal investment in it. You're adrenaline is going,
You're part of the story. I'm involved. Then somebody says
something and you're already riled up and emotions are running
high and you say something back again, on and you know,
and on it goes. So I think we're being shaped
by social media to react strongly because that's the thing

(03:15):
that gets likes, and that's the things that gets raisings,
and that's the things that get you know, the algorithm's working.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
And do we get hooked on that adrenaline? Like, do
we get because I know what it's like when you're like,
when I'm speaking to a room full of people, it's
terrifying being the MC in front of a thousand people,
Absolutely terrifying. But the and the adrenaline kicks in, which
leaves you absolutely drained afterwards. But boy, it was a buzz,

(03:42):
you know, it was a high.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Is that like a mini mini version of that when
you enter into a social media spat will send your text?

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, I think it is. I think we know that
when people become that sort of and I don't want
to say highly agitated, but in that state of that,
you know, adrenaline running, maybe some dough for meine as
well in terms of I'm feeling good about somebody's liked
my post or somebody else has liked it, so I'm
feeling a bit validated. So we're running on high, and

(04:15):
that's not necessarily the best mode to be making rational,
thoughtful comments. And then we just kind of get hooked in,
I think, and the adrenalines rushing around, and we respond defensively.
Maybe if somebody doesn't agree with us. I do think
we have somewhat We're not great at disagreeing with one

(04:39):
another in a respectful way, and and maybe we never
have been as a society, and maybe we just didn't
talk about it. But I don't know if we're that
great about being able to disagree respectfully without sort of
shouting each other down. And I think that's a real

(05:00):
skill that could be to be honest. That could probably
be taught in schools to kids as they're growing up
about how do we debate, how do we it's almost
a civics issue, how do we engage with different opinions
from our own, you know, realizing that people have different
views and that's okay. They don't have to agree with us,
But it doesn't make them the enemy. In quotes, it
just means that they've got a they've got a different view.

(05:22):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
But I don't know about your circle of friends Google,
but I've I've got friends who vote right across the
political spectrum.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
I've got friends who who are Jewish, and I have
got friends who have lived in Palestine and are passionate
about what is happening in Gaza and are determined to
do all they can so right across the spectrum. And
I can be in the same room and they can
be in the same room and still be civilized. So

(05:52):
when we're together, we can do it.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
I think there's something about the anonymity if I can't
pronounce the word properly, but being anonymous yea on social
media is that it does allow you and I think
it I think it contributes to perhaps a lack of
empathy and compassion. We don't. When you're in the room,
you can see the person. You know that they are
more than just the statement that they've just said there.

(06:17):
You know, you see you see them as a whole person.
When when you're interacting with somebody on social media, all
you see about them is their name, which will probably
object to anyway because it's some stupid name, and you know,
and then you're you're sore, you're objecting to an you're
seeing them as represented by just that statement. So I

(06:37):
think it's much easier to have get into those heated
arguments online, whereas in person, where we're perhaps more polite,
we we we we see them as people, and therefore
we were able to have perhaps a little bit more
empathy and compassion and just understanding that this is a
and see the good side and decides that we like

(07:00):
about those people as well, which which you miss. I
think it's almost like, if you're in person, it's three D,
when it's online it's one D and you just see
that one dimension.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, how do we get over this? And do people
want to?

Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yeah, whether they want to, that's a I'm not sure
about the answer to that. I mean, I think maybe
if we in our calmer moments, you know, going back
to the whole idea of being sort of hopped up
on adrenaline at that moment, you probably don't want to
it feels, God, there's a buzz going on. Yeah, I'm
really involved. But maybe if we stopped and took a
step back and had a look at maybe as that

(07:39):
texture was saying earlier, about what our society is like,
do we want to be? Is this how we want
society to go? And of course society is made up
of small moments of behavior, it's not made up of great,
big things where we say this is society, it's you know,
it's how we interact with each other on a daily basis.

(08:00):
And I think, you know, it should give us pause
for thought to think about us how we want our
society to go to? You know, is this the route
we want to go down? Do we want to become
like the USA where they are quite at the moment,
quite polarized politically and socially. I personally don't think we're
at that level, but I think it can give us

(08:21):
pause for thought and do we want to be like that?
Is that? Is that how we want New Zealand to
be as a society and I think it's it's a
good it's a good point for discussion really as a
as a society, as a country.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
And thank you very much for leading at Dr Dougal Sutherland,
Clinical Psychologists for Umbrella Wellbeing.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
For more from Kerry Wood and Mornings, listen live to
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