Featuring Dean Harder, Founder of H

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Episode Transcript

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The following is a paid podcast.iHeartRadio's hosting of this podcast constitutes neither an
endorsement of the products offered or theideas expressed. It's time for Mind Your

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Business on seven ten w R andthe iHeartRadio Network to present the weekly business
radio show produced by the award winningmarketing firm bottom Line Marketing Group the LMG,
sharing business and marketing strategies to makeyou and your business successful. Now
here's your host, the president andfounder of bottom Line Marketing Group, Yets

(00:49):
Hawks Sapless. Yeah, welcome toanother edition of Mind Your Business right here
on seven ten war the voice ofNew York. Well, we're coming to
you from Toronto, Canada. That'scorrect. This show is recorded live at
the Pinnacle Conference. A special thankyou to Norm Trainer and Keita Deming for
inviting us here to the Pinnacle Conference. And we're going to be speaking with

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today Dean Harder, founder of HAnd you're wondering, okay, H how
cool is that? How unique isthat? Yeah, that's what you're wondering,
and of course Dean is going todiscuss it. But before I get
to my incredible guests, a specialthank you to the great listenership of this
program covers such a wide range oftopics including sales, marketing and advertising,

(01:33):
emerging technologies, leadership, strategic planning, financial planning. My guest could probably
speak about each one of them tonight, but it's only forty you, that's
only an hour, so we haveto see how much we can get to
before I get to my guests.Just to be a men, special thank
you to the entire team at BLMG, in particulars really Michael for making this

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all happen. A special thank youto the team at seven ten War,
Darren Peter and Robert ze Brenner,thank you for the shout out, and
of course a special thank you toall those that follow us on the many
different channels that we are syndicated on. Without further ado, tonight's guest Dean
Harder, founder of h okay hWhat is that Well, they offer the

(02:15):
ability to impact the experience for asalesperson and the consumer by significantly and meaningfully
impacting the relationship. Now, youknow, hearing that right away, you're
saying to yourself, Wow, howcould that? You know? How can
I make that happen? When Deanspeaks and Norm has spoken about Dean many

(02:38):
times and in the times that Normhas been featured here on the program.
The concepts that you'll be hearing today, one of the beauties is that it's
they are takeaways, it's real,you can implement it in your business as
opposed to pine in the sky typeof stuff. Dean is a very down

(02:59):
to earth guy. Now, alsothose that have been following and listen to
the show that I had with withNorm a couple of weeks ago where he
spoke about Dean he has a housein Indiana, a house in Florida,
and he takes his bike. Hedoesn't do it by car RV No,
no, no, no, Hedoes it the real way with his Harley.

(03:20):
And the question is am I gonnahave the opportunity to take it for
a spin? But you know what, and maybe it's an interesting idea interesting
question. I know many listeners areprobably like, I'd like to see you
stuck on one of those. Butwait, we have a lot to get
to him tonight show. So firstwe're gonna get to some real stuff about
how you can help your business growthrough great sales techniques and tactics. Dean

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Harner, welcome to mind your business. Yet shock. I have been so
forward. Look, I've been lookingso forward to this. You are just
a remarkable human being and thank youfor having me. Thank you. So
you have a concept attract, engage, compel, could you please break that
out those great words, but like, how do you make that happen?

(04:02):
I love the question. So whenyou think about the world of sales,
and that's our really our audience.If you're out there, you're involved in
the world of sales, either asa salesperson or as a customer and a
client, and perhaps on both endsof that spectrum. So so often what
happens in the world of sales isa salesperson starts from what they do,

(04:25):
the services they provide. We callthat the inside, and they work outward.
So the reach out to a clientor perspective customer is to share with
you what we do, who weare, while as I've learned through my
years of doing this over twenty sixyears, we start from the outside and
work back in. Well, what'sthe outside. The outside is what you

(04:46):
want, what you desire, whatyou're after. And so in order for
us to ever land in a conversationwhere we're syncing up on something that matters
to you. You have to beattracted in to even want to have a
conversation with me. So the attractionreally starts by understanding what it is you

(05:09):
want as a customer or a client. Once you lean in and go,
wow, I had no idea aboutwhatever it is you were talking about or
whatever we were talking about, that'sthe tip. If you will that they're
ready to engage. So before Iget to the compel, let me just
use the example of if you werein the in if you were a single

(05:32):
person and you wanted to meet someoneand get married. You don't walk up
to somebody and say, hey,you want to get married. You don't
propose on the first day. No, no, no, you walk up
to somebody and say, hey,I would love to say hello, I'd
love to buy you a cup ofcoffee, I'd love to go to dinner
sometime, let's whatever. That's theattraction part. You're there's an attraction,

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And in the sales world, ifwe don't create the attraction, we go
right to the engagement. It's asthough we're asking somebody to marry us.
And that's one of the basic misstepsin the world of sales. The attract
and the engage are my responsibility asa salesperson. That begs the question,
so who's responsible for the compel?Because if you look at the synonyms you

(06:21):
check for compel, they're actually negativewords persuade, coerce, or a couple.
I don't want to persuade or coerceyou. However, I want you
to become compelled to take action thatmakes transformational changes in your life. Regarding
the products or services that we talkabout, it's not my job to compel

(06:46):
you. It's my job to helpyou see things that you don't see.
That's the attract engage compel. Let'stalk reality. The typical salesperson wants to
cut straight through the chase and goright to the sale, and they know
their product, they know what they'reselling, and and they're they're convinced the
person on the other side of theof the phone or the zoom meeting after

(07:09):
meeting face to face, the otherperson really needs what they have to offer,
and they, just like you said, they just dive right in and
compel and they don't realize they're killingthe deal. Absolutely. Have you been
to a big box store or hardwarestore before? Have you ever seen a
sign in the in the in thetool section where it says, here is

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where you'll find your hole. Okay, no, you'll find a drill bit.
But you don't actually go into ahardware sort of buy a drill bit.
You go in to buy a hole. The drill bit creates the whole.
I need to know whether or notyou want a hole, not a
drill bit. That's great, that'sgreat. And by the way, what
what Dean is sharing is such practicalguidance because again, a typical salesperson just

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they just they'd all the patients andthey just want to cut right through the
sale. They're just trying to makethe sale. But they have to realize
there has to be the concept attract, engage, compel, And in fact,
Norm refers to this frequently. Hesays, he, you know,
he flies a lot. He's onthe airplane. Let's go through the drill.
He's on the airplane, he sitsdown next to someone and stuff says,

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oh, hi, what do youdo? And what does he say?
I think he even he attributes itto you. He says. I
turned to them and said, youknow, I thank you for the question.
May I ask what do you do? He says, And they never
say well I asked you first.No, exactly exactly, Dean. You

(08:41):
know why is asking for permission suchan important part of the developing a meaningful
relationship in building the sales process?You know your check. You're a great
example of someone who has tremendous influence. And one of the reasons why you
have influences you you live out thetwo elements of influence. You focus on

(09:03):
the other person, and you earnthe right to proceed. So focusing on
the other person is working from theoutside back in, and earning the right
to proceed simply takes away my assumptionthat you want to talk about the things
I want to talk about. Soone of the techniques that we teach is

(09:26):
something we've just labeled ready, SetGo, and it's something we use in
the very very first time we everinteract with someone, the very first time
we've been introduced, and in theready portion is no more than hey,
get shocked. Do you mind ifwe jump in? Because every conversation begins
with small talk, right, butwe agreed to get together on the basis

(09:48):
of a big talk. Big talkis just a way to label the sales
part of the conversation. If youwill, you know I mean that in
a negative way, so hey,get shocked. Do you mind if we
jump in and is different than mesaying yit check, I'd like to go
ahead and jump in, completely different. I started from the inside when I

(10:09):
said that, so you would say, sure, let's go ahead and jump
in the set? So that wasready set is before we jump in,
yit check. I'm just curious,what were you expecting today, and you'll
say whatever you say. You typicallywould say, well, I don't have
any expectations, to which I wouldrespond, well, if we recall when
we agreed to get together, Isimply wanted to get acquainted with you and

(10:33):
you with me, and I'd loveto take just a few minutes to show
you how we help people. Areyou cool? If that's what we do?
We just SYNCD up because here youare nodding, sure, that sounds
great. I'm not assuming that youeven remember that conversation. And so the
go part, which I'll leave foranother time, is a question that we

(10:54):
ask to make sure we clearly understandyour want, your desire. Now I
just said I'd leave it for anotherday. Would you rather share it now?
Yes? Please? Because why didn'tyou give him a chance. Okay,
yeah, no, So the veryfirst time I'm in the world of
sales, I've I've had a financialpractice for a number of years and when
you would ask me, if youwould ask me what I do, my

(11:16):
response would be very simple. We'rewe're we're really involved in helping people spend
and enjoy their money as well toshare their wealth. That's what we do.
We love doing it, helping youspend it, enjoy and as well
share your wealth. And so weget together on that basis. And so
the third question I asked before weever really dive into any conversation is,

(11:37):
Oh, I'm just curious yet check, I'm curious if you want to retire
someday. That's a great question.It does a great question because there's an
ally's answer that that that that question, That question is identifying do you want
a hole in the wall or not? And there are three ways that you'll
respond. Very quickly, you'll sayyes, of course, duh. And

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the vast majority of peace people,especially people that work for companies and organizations,
they're not entrepreneurs. They tend tothink a little differently to that question.
They're very quick to say yes,of course. It's very rare for
somebody to say no. But somepeople say no, which is important because
that tells me they don't want ahole in the wall. But the third
response is you know, I'm notsure. I'm not sure, Dean,

(12:22):
and I just simply learned to respondyour check. Are you suggesting that you're
not sure you want to retire oryou're not sure you can retire? Every
single time I've been asking that questionfor over fifteen years, I'm not sure
I can. I went through adivorce, I started a business and it
failed, I had some health issues. A number of issues pop up,

(12:45):
and immediately without even going into anybusiness interaction, I'm learning from somebody what
they want. Ready, set go. It's as simple, incredible. Before
we go to a commercial break,how could people find out more about your
services and to get in touch withyou? Deanharder dot com? Is that

(13:05):
easy? It's that easy. Harderis the opposite of softer. So it's
d E A N H A Rd R dot com. Amazing. We're
gonna be back in a moment.Stay tuned. Shea Rubinstein, Executive vice
president of the JCON Conferences, invitingyou to attend our real estate summit on

(13:26):
Tuesday, July eleven at the Hiltonand Staten Island. For more information and
to register, please visit attend jcondot com Once again attend jcon dot com
where you'll hear from panelists, speakers, networking, mentors, and anything related
to real estate and of course thegray food. Don't miss it once again,

(13:48):
please visit attend jcon That's a TT E N D J C O
N dot com for more information,to see all the different panels and lineup,
and of course to register. Lookingforward to seeing you once again at
attend jcon dot com for the JCONReal Estate Summit Tuesday July eleven at the
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(15:01):
five three eight one nine one oneand we're back. Mind your business with
the a saxaplis right here on sevento ten WR the Voice of New York
and on the iHeartRadio Network. Whereare we? Where are we recording from?

(15:22):
Well? This episode was recorded livein Toronto, Canada at the Pinnacle
Conference event. A special thank youto Norm Trainer and Keita Deming for running
this incredible event. And I hadthe opportunity to catch up with Dean Harder.
Dean Horter is the founder of hYes and you can find that more
information by going to Deanharder dot comDeanharder dot com. His background is in

(15:46):
financial planning, but now he isa sales is a fair to say,
a sales consultant. What would bethe official title? Uh? You know
what, That's a great question becauseI'm not a fan of titles, Okay,
but the best I could share isthat I'm so interested in coming alongside
of individuals, companies, organizations totransform the experience that salespeople and customers clients

(16:12):
have with one another. And sowhat I bring to the table is a
twenty six year career of doing it. I still do what I do all
these years I've been doing it.I continue to have what I call my
core business. And I just broughtto that space how you actually attract engage
so that people can compel themselves togo after the solutions that bring about what

(16:37):
they want. And the first segmentof tonight show, Dean discussed ready Said
Go and again the podcast will beup by Monday mornings. You'll be able
to listen to that part and theYouTube episode will be up in short order.
But he opened with discussing attract,engage and compel. And one of

(16:59):
the really hallmarks of Dan is theway he listens to people, the way
he probes, the way he digsdown in order to get to the bottom
of what does the other person onthe other side of the conversation really want.
And of course that means being agreat listener and not just jumping in

(17:22):
and selling and like you know,just jumping down there to that point.
One of the concepts that you haveis I hope I'm going to pronounce this
right, T, I, D, A, D S tie dads.
What in the world is that D? Tie dads is a big picture framework
that you will use to create oneon one conversations. You will use that

(17:45):
framework for emails, for phone calls, if you're going to speak in front
a group of five, ten,or twenty people, or one hundred,
two thousand, five or ten thousandpeople. Tie dads is an acronym that
has these elements. That first standsfor topic, the second T or the
second TIGHT. The second letter Iis idea. The next two letters go

(18:07):
together, the D and the Athat stands for desired action. That's followed
by the second D which is dialogue. And we end with S, which
is stuff. So if you thinkabout it, you start from the top
the first T and go down tothe S. But you also work from
the S and work up to theT and let me if I may just

(18:30):
give a little more example the ideaof topics. So the topic could be
financial services, it could be realestate, it could be flooring, it
could be a moving company. Itdoesn't matter what the topic is. But
within that topic you have to pickan idea and even go so far as

(18:53):
to determine what is the leading ideawithin that topic that you want to talk
about. In the first segment,I mentioned that in the very first interaction
with a client that we work within our financial business, we'll ask the
question, Hey, I'm curious ifyou want to retire someday, And when
they say yes, and they go, oh, I can't wait, they've

(19:14):
identified that want that you just referredback to. Well, the leading idea
in the very first conversation is anidea that disrupts their belief that they actually
can retire. Now that's not mesuggesting they can't retire. It's me bringing
to them information or a thought thatninety nine percent of the time no one's

(19:38):
ever brought to them. That thoughtdisrupts their thinking, which allows me to
be confident most of the time,almost all of the time. The desired
action I want them to want totake is to have another conversation. Well,
if if you and I have aconversation for fifteen or twenty minutes and

(20:00):
you lean in and go, Dean, I had no idea that that's how
this worked, to which I willsay, well, your check. I
know we only said we're going tochat for fifteen to twenty, so I'm
just curious. Can you think ofany reason why you wouldn't want to see
the rest of the story. Idon't want to leave you hanging here.
I just asked you to say nobecause we're preconditioned to say no, which

(20:25):
but that's the affirmative response. No. I can't think of any reason,
Dean, why I wouldn't want tosee how you resolve this. That's the
desired action. I just want youto want to have another conversation. The
dialogue the second d. The dialogueis just the inner action that we play
out together. So just as youand I have a script, so do

(20:48):
all of my conversations. That doesn'tmean we don't free flow, but it's
no different than going to your greatcity in New York to a Broadway show.
Every actor on that stage start byreading a script, memorizing the lines,
learning the character. So do we. And the reason we use scripting

(21:08):
is not to manipulate the conversation.It's so I don't have to think about
where should we go in this?What should I say next? Is the
road map? Right absolutely? Andthe s is just the stuff, and
so I want is the Harley.That's right. We're gonna get you on
that Harley by the way. Yeah, that's right. That's all right.

(21:29):
We'll get pictures on that on thatwebsite. So the s is the stuff.
So for when I'm in person havingthat first conversation that includes I want
a neutral place, I want acoffee shop. I want coffee or tea
or whatever somebody wants to drink.I bring a sketch pad with me.
Why would I bring a sketch padbecause I don't want to bring a computer.

(21:51):
I don't want to bring I justif I want a doodle or draw,
I have a little sketch pad.I can doodle or drawn. Some
of the other conversations we have wouldrequire some different items. So the ass
is just stuff. It just depends. So that's ti Dad's next question.
And this is really you know,a fundamental you know, we're talking about
getting involved into a sales conversation.What's your trick for triggering the conversation?

(22:18):
How does someone get it started inthat comfortable way. Love that question.
And I kind of stole the thunderwhen I mentioned the ready, set go,
because that really is the ready setgo and let's review it. But
it's so fundamental. So there's eightmoves. One of the elements that we
teach in our program is eight movesthat actually make up or or the elements

(22:45):
for any conversation. And it's startsink story stop. So the start sink
think sy sy NC story and stopstop. Yeah, be done. And

(23:06):
so the start the conversation is notwhen you and I sit down with our
tea and coffee, because we're sittingdown having small talk. So I need
to put the ignition in or bringthe fob out of I can't get the
fib out and to start to actuallystart the conversation. That's where I'll simply
say to you get chuck, doyou do you mind if we jump in?

(23:30):
That starts the conversation. So yousay, no, no problem,
We jump in and we agree wesync up. That's why we asked the
question, I'm just curious what youwere expecting today, and you can say,
what do you want? We syncup. The story are the individual
conversations that we've created to help youget what you want. So our first

(23:52):
conversation we call so what the reasonwe call it so what is I believe
you should be thinking, so,what in the world would I want to
have another conversation with you about Dean. That's what I'm believing is you're going,
so what what's this about? Andnot just what is this about?
But how does this make a differencein my life? I'm sorry interrupt,
but it's what's what's so brilliant isyou're really wrapping yourself around what the other

(24:15):
person. You're not just going inand playing make believe and just ignoring and
trying to, like you know,ramrod your way through. Quite the no,
no, no, quite the opposite. It's when when when our friend
norm has has has said this phraseover and over and over. When you
know how to open, you don'thave to close, and when you open

(24:38):
from the outside and work back in, all you're doing is asking permission to
enter inside their world to understand whatthey want. So, after you sync
up and you go into the story, we have this so what. So
there's a so what element in thatfirst conversation. If you recall I I
I mentioned, can you think ofany reason why you wouldn't want to see

(25:00):
the rest of the story. Thename of the second conversation is rest of
the story. The third conversation isshow me. The reason it show me
is in the second conversation most ofthe time you will get to the point
where you go, this makes sense. I had no idea that this is

(25:21):
how it worked. How you're sharingthis the rest of the story. What
I didn't even know. I didn'tknow. And that's a shout out to
our um. Oh the long timePaul Harvey. Paul Harvey was famous.
Yes, yes, yes, ohHarvey. Now it's your check, thank
you. Yes, that is ahuge Yes, he is something else.

(25:41):
Yes. So the show me conversationis a way for me to show you
how to do something you already agreedyou wanted to do. And yet we
haven't even talked about your specific world. It's starting from the outside, working
back in Dean. You have aconcept which you write in your book.

(26:03):
By the way, congratulations Mazeltov.When did the When did the book come
out? Stop Pitching? When didit come out? So the Bookstop Pitching
came out February of twenty twenty two. It was about a two and a
half year project. I was fortunateto actually work with Keta Deming. John
Donnelly was the editor who is apart of the Covenant Group Team We It's
available on Amazon. It's been it'sbeen a fantastic lift for what we do.

(26:27):
But the book, it encompasses thesethese strategies, these frameworks. It
also every chapter includes a story.I include a lot of my family,
some of my friends. And it'sbecause life is what teaches us principles and

(26:48):
it's not the business technical information.Principles come from life, and so I
built in stories into the book tohelp portray these principles in the book.
You have a concept the fork inthe road in sales. How important is
it to be mindful of it?And what's your suggestion when someone reaches that

(27:10):
point. Well, every conversation hasa fork in the road. In other
words, you would not want toget together to see the rest of the
story until you felt compelled yourself.I didn't compel you, you felt compelled
to want to see it. That'sa fork in the road. Here's the
key to the fork in the roadconcept. There are for motivators that cause

(27:32):
us to take action. Instant gratification, instant pain, future gratification. In
future pain, we take action ifwe put our hand on a hot stove.
That's instant pain. Instant gratification wouldbe you know what, I'm not
going to study tonight. I'm goingto watch the World Series because you know

(27:52):
it doesn't happen every day. Thefuture gratification is a horrible motivator. People
don't tend to be motivated very muchby future gratification, nor do they get
motivated by future pain. So thisprocess that we teach and all the different
frameworks that we share are built aroundbringing future pain into the present. When

(28:17):
you bring future pain and somebody feelsthat, you get action right. And
so that future pain is when somebodyand when they see it today, they
then realize they are standing in thefork of the road. That fork in
the road isn't ten years from now, twenty years from now, it's now.
And that is all built around developingthe right conversations so that people compel

(28:41):
themselves to take these micro action steps. So brilliant, because when there's a
fork in the road, you gottamake a decision. You have to or
you can stand there. I guessoh. Have an incredible conversation with Dean
Harder. By the way, hisnew book Style Pitching The Role of Conversations

(29:03):
in the World of Sales is availableof course on Amazon and select bookstores.
For more information about Dean Harder Deanharderdot com. It's that simple, Deanharder
dot com. Opposite of softer.You got it. We're gonna take a
show, commercial break, stay tuned. Finally, a payroll service that does

(29:26):
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(30:14):
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paycheck dot com. This is RichardSolomon. If you're having a corporate event
or a seminar, a workshop andyou're looking for a public speaker that's just

(30:36):
a little bit different, why don'tyou give me a try five one six,
three seven one four nine two four. I'm a radio host, I'm
a lawyer, I'm an author,I've been a lecturer. I've got a
lot of really great war stories.And if you want to learn more,
go to the Solomon channel dot comand you'll see all the great videos and
everything that we've done over the years. We've done a lot of great stuff,
including cashflow, cashlow dynamics, thingsabout small business, dealing with regulation,

(30:59):
and surviving the challenges in this verytough and competitive business environment. Five
one six, three, seven,one four nine two four five one six
three seven one four nine two four. Shea Rubinstein, executive Vice president of
the JCON Conference, is inviting youto attend our real Estate Summit on Tuesday,

(31:25):
July eleven at the Hilton and StatenIsland. For more information and to
register, please visit attend Jcon dotcom. Once again, attend jcon dot
com where you'll hear from panelists,speakers, networking, mentors, and anything
related to real estate and of coursethe great food. Don't miss it once
again, please visit attend Jcon.That's a T T E N D J

(31:52):
c O N dot com for moreinformation, to see all the different panels
in line up, and of courseto register. Looking forward to seeing you
once again at A ten jcon dotcom for the Jcon Real Estate Summit Tuesday,
July eleven at the Hilton in StatenIsland, and we're back mind your

(32:15):
business with you, suc Appleist righthere on seven ten WR, the voice
of New York and around the worldfor those that know how to reach and
to consume incredible business content. We'reon the iHeart Radio network. It's really
cool or just around the block fromwhere we are here in Toronto, in
Toronto on University. I saw somebig studios at iHeartRadio. Made sure to

(32:37):
take some pictures because we're recording herefrom Toronto, Canada. We're live at
the Pinnacle Conference twenty twenty three.Special shout out to Norm Trainer and Keitademic,
thank you for inviting us. Andwe're speaking with Dean Harder of h
yeah, you're wondering, what's that. Well, Dean Harder led a very

(32:57):
successful financial planning practice this for manyyears and has mastered the art of having
incredible deep conversations where people open upabout what's important to them, what life
means to them. And tonight you'rehearing that because I've always been intrigued because
norm as he's always so gracious andshare the limelight and share the compliments and

(33:23):
has frequently spoken about Dean Harder inhis conversations here on seven ten WR And
now we're hearing it firsthand, howDean has mastered the art understand, truly
understand what the person on the otherside of the conversation is seeking. Don't
just try to sell, sell,sell, And that's why his book is

(33:45):
Stop Pitching. And what an appropriatetitle Stop Pitching. Oh, we have
a lot to cover, Dean.A sales pitch is much more than the
words used. And of course Ifeel like terrible saying that sales pitch like,
but just in terms of framing thisquestion, okay, it's much more.

(34:05):
Can you tell us how vocabulary,white space, pacing, tone,
energy are all so important for thesales? I'm not going to say a
pitch sales conversation. Well, Ilove that. In fact, if you
have a chance to watch any video, if this was captured, I know
you're capturing this. We are,it's going to be up on YouTube.

(34:25):
You just demonstrated it. You did. You just slowed down and you took
your It was awesome. You reallytruly demonstrated that. One of the reasons
why is you already knew what youwere going to say. You had scripted
that question. And in the worldof sales, there's such a negative connotation
with scripting. And yet all ofmy career, which I'm still active in

(34:50):
my financial business, it's scripted.It's not manipulative, scripted. What I'm
trying to do more than anything.And the reason why the tone in the
white space, in the vocabulary andall that matters is I want you to
recognize I'm on your side of thetable. I'm not here trying to shove
anything down your throat. I'm nottrying to hit some kind of a sales

(35:13):
quota. I'm here to help youget something you want. And if you
come to realize that what you're doingis not going to provide the outcome that
you're after I'm not convincing you orpersuading you, You're compelling yourself to go.
Holy Kyle, I'm standing in thefork of the road, and if
I stay on the path i'm on, I'm not going to experience what I

(35:37):
want. So, Dean, whatelse could I do? That's the other
fork, which is a variety ofthings. It's not just one. There's
no magic pill, and so vocabulary, I don't just want to take a
moment on that. You You evenwere kindly corrected yourself that we don't pitch
people, right. We have conversations, and so when somebody comes to a

(36:00):
point where they want to own something, they want to implement something, and
it just so happens that we canhelp them do that. They're buying something.
They're not being sold something, They'rechoosing to buy. We live life
all the time, going out everysingle day buying things that we want.

(36:21):
A cup of coffee, gas forour car, a wash for our car,
dry cleaning. We don't do thatjust because we want to blow money.
We do that because we want theoutcome it gives us. When it
comes to the world of sales,especially especially when it comes to relationships,
we become the conduit to help thatperson get to a point where they can

(36:46):
recognize first and foremost that they needto change. They need to change,
change course, and not to bescared of it. Not to be scared
of it, brace it, Preparefor change. And again, the type
of conversations that you have people,that you have with people naturally bring them

(37:10):
into that framework, bring them intothat space of that. You know,
I ought to stop thinking about that. I haven't given that serious thought,
but you know what, you mademe feel comfortable having that conversation. You
know what's interesting to you? Acheck. I have to share this thought
that one of the comments I'll hearfrom time to time when I do a
keynote address, or I'm talking toa large organization about their sales, their

(37:36):
sales team, what they're doing,or a one on one conversation, I'll
get this comment, Dean, You'rejust gifted. If you knew my whole
story, I didn't really speak muchuntil I was about five. I was
scared. My parents actually took meto the Mayo Clinic in Rochester. I
grew up in Minnesota because they thoughtthere was something wrong with me. I

(37:59):
was a very outgoing kid. WhenI turned about eight or nine years old,
and I became really interested in communicationat a young age because of my
years in a youth organization called fourAge. And yet it wasn't until my
twenties that I had some mentors inmy life come alongside of me and curb
my over enthusiasm and begin to helpme redirect all this energy and interest.

(38:25):
And so what I am today isa project fascinating and we all are that
way, we truly are. Andso there are things that I do today.
There are conversations that I have todaythat twenty years ago, fifteen years
ago, maybe even some ten yearsago, I couldn't even imagine ever having

(38:45):
those conversations or saying what I say, shoot yitchik. I never imagined I
would write a book. And yetwith Keita Deming's help and his encouragement,
here it is right on the tablein front of us. Beautiful. You
know. The next question is wetouched on it earlier, but it really

(39:08):
I'll ask it this way. Salespeopleusually just wing it now, and unfortunately
because perhaps they're they're looking at asales quota or whatever it is, and
they just kind of try to,as they say, propose on the first
date. Why should they do theexact opposite and create a script. Now,

(39:30):
again, you could hear the benefitsand the and the you know,
the advantages and disadvantages on both sides. But at the end of the day,
why is it important to have ascript? Obviously leaving in mind that
a person can add live and bethemselves, but why is it important to
go with a script? Love thisquestion? This is one of my most

(39:51):
favorite elements of what we're part ofwhen we're working with people. Let me
ask you this, yet, checkdo the employees or the team members not
sure what they're called at Disney World? Do they wing it? Oh?
Not at all. Every response thatcomes out of every person's mouth is a
scripted response. And yet do theyhave trouble attracting people? No, not

(40:14):
at all. And people engage andspend money and do all that because of
how incredible the experience is. Theother example I think of is in the
airlines forever and ever and ever.You would sit down and you would have
this person on the on the intercomdrone on about what's going on Southwest Airlines

(40:36):
disrupted that they still get out thesame information. But I travel Southwest a
fair amount and I mean, yes, of course, that's right, that's
right, And and I love itwhen one of the flight attendants who's doing
the announcement, gets on and throwsin little funny barbs. What happens,

(40:57):
everybody drops what they're doing and theylive. But yet it starts with the
script. So scripting allows you tobecome more personable and more you in the
conversation. That's why it's so important. It's a great point. You mean,
it keeps it keeps focus, itkeeps anyone on track. But yet

(41:19):
at the same time, you gottamake sure to be open and human and
have your character, you know,because I can imagine that some people take
it to an extreme and'll like showup, hello, mister Harder, how
are you today, and like,come on, cut it out exactly exactly.
Nobody on Broadway would ever take thestage if they were just handed the
script now exactly. And so oneof the concepts that we also teach,

(41:45):
and I know Norm teaches this inthe Covenant group. You memorize, then
you personalize so that you can improvisewhen necessary. So but you memorize,
you just memorize. That's why inthe book we do have some scripting in
the book that people can read andthen take the scripting and then personalize it

(42:07):
so it fits your industry or fitsyou as a person. But don't change
the integrity of the question. Rightright tonight, Choe tonight Choe. Brought
you in part by H. DeanHarder is the founder of H. To
find out more information about Dean Deanharderdot com Deanharder dot com. We'll be

(42:28):
right back, Stay tuned. Powerfulpeople, famous names, impactful content.
I always challenge people, what carare you driving, what computer are you
using? What shoes are you wearing? Right there is a segment that that
doesn't matter, but most other segments, they are brand consumers. They have
an affinity. I'm on the boardof Nike. People are passionate about the

(42:50):
Nike brand. That was Beth Coomstock, former vice chair of GE. Follow
on Instagram at business Class clips formore. The future that you envision for
yourself and your business is totally attainable. You need support along the way,
and as entrepreneurs, having a teamaround you that supports you in achieving what
that vision is is vital and thatis something that the Covenant Group is committed

(43:14):
to delivering Most of the times thatpeople come to the Covenant Group using is
that they want to enjoy what they'redoing, They want to have more quality
time, what they want to havefinancial independence or financial security. My name
is Keith Dedming. I'm norm Trainer. We educated court to entrepreneurs to build
a high performance business. We arein essence, design engineers, and we're

(43:34):
helping entrepreneurs design the business that's rightfor them and then execute the idea of
having somebody coach you through the hardtimes and the businesses and think through what
it is to have an inventory ofclient activity and what it is to build
a base of revenue and to thinklike a business person. It's just not
common in our industry. My nameis Mark Pardon, I'm Dean Harder Brown,

(44:00):
I'm Jay Langford. My name isVic Goodet. I'm Andrew McKinnon.
And I'm building a high performance business. And I'm building a high performance business.
And I'm building a high performance businessselling a high performance business. Learn
more by visiting www dot Covenant Groupdot com and we're back mind your business

(44:23):
with these slex aphilis right here onseven ten war the Voice of New York
and around the world on the powerfulIR radio network. Tonight's show was recorded
at the Pinnacle Conference twenty twenty threein Toronto, Canada. A special shout
out to the brains behind it,Norm Trainer and Keita Deming. By the
way, you can find that moreinformation about the Covenant Group by visiting Covenant

(44:45):
Group dot com. Covenant Group dotcom. And we have around ten minutes
left to this incredible show. Anyonethat's involved in sales, this show is
for you and who isn't That's animportant point. Also, we all are
involved in sales in one way,shape or another, either making sure that
you get right you you're you're presentedcorrectly so you're part of an organization that

(45:07):
you wish to be part of,or you're running a company and you need
to you need to get clients,lead generation. We allay retention, we
always hear, but the lifeblood issales and that's why we're catching up with
Dean Harder, founder of h Bythe way, you can find a more
information about Dean and his new book, Stopped Pitching Deanharder dot com. Deanharder

(45:30):
dot com. Dean, thank youso much for carving out of your crazy,
hectic schedule for joining me here onmind your business. It's a pleasure.
Thank you. You have a techniquecalled the P pass. What in
the world is that I heard ofeasy pass? What's P pass? Easy
pass was taken, so pass.So question for you the check what's the

(45:51):
first step in problem solving? Ohman, I would think the first thing
is identifying the problem. You know, I was taught that mind terror life,
and about fifteen years ago I waschallenged by someone who said, that's
not the first step. You haveto first identify the purpose before you can
determine what the problem is. Sothe P pass is an acronym for purpose

(46:15):
problem. The A and the Sgo together attempted solution and the final s
is solution. So in a realquick order, if I use my own
world that I work in on aregular basis helping people retire someday, the
purpose of saving money is so youcan create income with it. It's not

(46:37):
to have it for retirement. Thepurpose is to create income with it so
you can walk away from your job. The problem people face the day they
retire is the inability to answer toquestions how long will you live? And
if your investments your pile of money, so to speak is invested, how
will it actually perform now that you'reusing it as an income tool? How

(47:00):
will that work? So that's theproblem that has to be resolved. It's
not taxes, it's not inflation.Those are all environmental contributors. But the
problem are those two questions. Theattempted solution is, let's just take out
as little as possible so we don'trun out of money. So it becomes
I'll just take out as little aspossible. Well, the unintended consequence is

(47:22):
most people are not in a positionto build a big enough pile of wealth
to be able to live on thatattempted solution. The solution has to resolve
both the problem as well as theunintended consequences that applies to everything in life.
Everything in life, and so ppass is one of our favorite frameworks.

(47:45):
Identify the purpose beautiful. You haveanother technique that you address in the
book, of Course, the bookwith among I mean, listen, anyone
who has an interaction with Dean getsthe experience and understanding of how to truly
understand and engage with people. Butyou get a glimpse by reading his book

(48:06):
Stop pitching the role of conversations inthe world of sales, Dean, you
have in Derek concept which when wewere going through it was like sounds like
waha, wh a A what isthat? Whaa? Want have ALIGNE adjust?

(48:27):
Okay, it fits inside the ppass framework. Really so we've already
talked about during the show today andagain I thank you so much for having
me on and it's great for greatfor h to be a part of your
great network here. But want we'vealready When somebody says I want to retire
someday and live life as I defineit, that's that's what they tell us.

(48:49):
Well, what do you have?In other words, what are the
decisions you have in place? Yougive people the benefit of the doubt that
all the variables they don't control arefavorable. So let's just start there.
Do your haves align with your wants? In other words, if you keep
experiencing and doing what you're doing andyou get to retirement someday, can you
live the life you want to live? Is that aligned? Almost always?

(49:14):
Yet? Check it's not aligned?So what are all the ways you can
adjust in order to align or betteralign? They have to the one.
It's It's truly that simple when itcomes to the world of sales, but
you just you explain it in away that that that that that makes it
so attainable for a salesperson to trulygo down that path in order to in

(49:42):
order to have the desired outcomes.And the reason why I say it like
that is because again so frequently andagain I've we've interviewed many sales superstars on
the show and they also advocate thisabout truly understanding and yet you see it
violated. How do I know?Because we all get those goals right,
we get those goals. Hi,I'm selling this, buy this, get
this right? And like, comeon, do you really know if I

(50:07):
care about what you're selling? Andthat's what you're advocating, and you have
your again the acronyms, and youhave just such a great way of explaining
it and and and and and gettingit out there. But also like to
make sure it has to get intointo the into the woodwork of the person.
It's got to be part of theirbones, because otherwise we're all,

(50:30):
you know, we all the salesquota is we all just like we kind
of just cut We want to gofrom point day to point B quickly,
right and going your way is theis the is the way that you get
to the depths of of of understandingthe other person, and you wind up
doing much more business that way,but it doesn't go as quick. Right

(50:51):
is that bear to say yes andno? Okay, please push back?
Yes. Yes. When when somebodyunderstands and feels more importantly, feels in
a very first interaction that they're notbeing sold, that they're being heard,
and that the conversation revolves around whatthey want, they open up quicker they
do, and so in that respectit moves faster. It does move you

(51:14):
know what. I want to correctmyself because they think it goes lower.
The salesperson thinks it goes lower,but they don't realize that they're proposing on
the first date. So good,you propose that you go quicker, but
you don't have But that's it.You know, you don't get married.
That's right, that's right, allright. Next question, Sales should be
measured by how big a difference youmake in the lives of others. That's

(51:37):
your quote. It's so special,it's so meaningful to you. Just elaborate
on that. Sales is a necessity. We need sales organizations, we need
business there's no there's no doubt,there's no shame in being in sales.
There's no uh, there's nothing wrongwith being in sales. However, the

(51:58):
sales world has evolved over years andyears, decades and decades, centuries and
centuries, and what we see todayis just way too much pitching, starting
from the inside and going outward.I need to hit my goals, I
need to pay my mortgage, Ihave my kids dental appointment. And people

(52:21):
are driven and those things are important, but they will wreck your sales career
if that becomes what drives you.So what drives me is to get out
of bed every morning and make theinteraction with everybody I get to interact with,
whether it's in the world of salesor not, but we're talking about
the world of sales, whether Iearn a penny or not. If there

(52:45):
is a way for me to helpthat person do something, get something,
experience something that matters to them,makes them not only feel better, but
they're in a better place. That'swhat makes me successful, not selling something,
not getting paid to do something.It's to see somebody's life transform because

(53:09):
they were unaware of how they couldtransform their own life. You know,
what you just shared is really therecurring theme throughout tonight's show. And I
know I'm gonna get many requests towatch this episode on YouTube is going to
go up on YouTube in short order. And by the way, if you
feel that you know you you youwant to differ with something at Dean saying

(53:30):
I don't know what a planet you'rewrong? But hey, you know YouTube,
you could just put your comments inbelow and Dan me might just respond
to you. You know, hedrives a Harley say you know. But
what's such a powerful takeaway is theimportance of understanding other people and truly trying
to help other people. When someonecomes in with that framework, you win

(53:53):
them over and and but but here'sthe here's the key point, and I
want to turn it back to theTo really touch on this, you have
to do it in a genuine way. If someone is going to follow the
script everything you here on tonight showand say, Okay, I'm going to
work on this, and but they'redoing it really with the its. It's

(54:15):
with financial uh you know, benchmarksin mind. It's going to come across
transactional the person on the other side, we'll see through it. Could you
please elaborate on that. Yeah,this is relational. I love the fact.
Get check that you just mentioned transactionalsomething that's in the book. It
was a phrase that came up asI was writing the book. Where relationships

(54:37):
matter, so to do conversations thisThe principles of this book apply through other
walks of our life. My sister'sbeen in education in the state of Nebraska
her entire career. She read mybook after it came out, and she
immediately implemented some of the techniques inthe framework in her role as a principle

(54:58):
at this school. And and shesaid it's transformed her relationships with her staff,
with teachers, with students. Itisn't just about sales. And that's
what I love about your program andwhat you do. You bring to a
wide audience and information and ideas andpeople that want to be heard, not

(55:22):
because they're trying to puff up theirego. They You've had so many guests
on your show that bring these amazingthoughts and ideas. And I'm so honored
that we're talking on the show heretoday tonight and that we got to do
this. What an incredible show.I know people are going to reach out.
Hey when is that YouTube going up? I know it gets it takes

(55:44):
around two three weeks. We haveto prepare it. We have Thrillly here
in our entire team at bottom Linewho works diligently to prepare it and to
make sure that it really with ald. I mean Thrillly has some setup over
here with old lighting and everything inthe camera angles. Thank you, Dean,
what an incredible experience. I can'tthank you enough. This wraps up
We're at a time. This wrapsup an incredible edition of Mind Your Business.

(56:07):
Tuning in X Sunday night for anothergreat edition of Mind your Business Right
here on the Voice of New Yorkseven ten WR have a successful week seven
ten War and the iHeartRadio Network presentMind Your Business, hosted by the President
of bottom Line Marketing Group, JitsokSafliss. Founded in nineteen ninety two,

(56:29):
bottom Line Marketing Group is a strategic, creative and execution driven marketing agency helping
businesses by clarifying and promoting their vision, mission and purpose to support its lead
generation and customer retention initiatives to gainmarket share in their industry. Mind Your
Business focuses on business and marketing strategiesfor success. Tune in every Sunday evening

(56:49):
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Now Yetsok and his guests offer theirknowledge and expertise to help you be
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(57:16):
iHeartRadio's hosting of this podcast constitutes neitheran endorsement of the products offered or
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