Featuring Experts from Cross River Bank, NEWMARK Group & VisionRE, in Advance of the JCon Conference

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Episode Transcript

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The following is a paid podcast.iHeartRadio's hosting of this podcast constitutes neither an
endorsement of the products offered or theideas expressed. It's time for Mind Your

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Business on seven ten w R andthe iHeartRadio Network to present the weekly business
radio show produced by the award winningmarketing firm bottom Line Marketing Group b LMG,
sharing business and marketing strategies to makeyou and your business successful. Now
here's your host, the president andfounder of bottom Line Marketing Group. Yits

(00:49):
Hawks Sapless and thank him adjoining meare another edition of Mind Your Business here
in the Tri state area of broadcastingon the Voice of New York seven w
ARE and around the world on thepowerful IHA Radio Network. Tonight show is
all about the real estate outlook intwenty twenty three. I'm gonna be joined
by some incredible guests and I'm cohosted once again by my good friend Sia

(01:12):
Rubenstein. Chia, thank you forjoining me here on Mind Your Business.
What a pleasure it's like to beback, and thank you. A great
topic to cover tonight, so Ithink we'll be exciting for our listeners absolutely.
Before we get to Shea and theguests. First of all, a
special thank you to the great listenershipof this program. We had so many
great guests including Dick Schul's, thefounder and chairman emeritus a Best Buy,

(01:33):
Beth Comstock, the former vice chairand CMOA ge Joe Hart, the president
and CEO of Dale Carnegie. Bythe way, on our YouTube channel,
over three hundred episodes are up onYouTube. On YouTube were at seven ten
War Mind your Business Special shout outa great team here at bottom Line Marketing
Group BLMG makes it all happen special. Thank you to the team at seven
ten War. Shout out to ZeBrenner. Thank you for the shout out

(01:56):
to me. Gotta you know bA mentioned give it to him back.
And of course we're we are syndicatedon many different channels including of course the
Business Class Channel, the very popularBusiness Cuss Channel. We also have a
Prince Summary of many selected shows whichappear in the Jewish Home and we're of
course on Spotify and Apple Podcasts,etc. Etc. Tonight show upcoming very

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very soon. It's gonna happen beforewe know it. Tuesday, July eleventh,
twenty twenty three, The Hilton andStaten Island the JCON Real Estate Summit.
It's the sixth annual JCON Real EstateSummit. She is the brainshall of
it, and we're going to bespeaking with some incredible guest tonight Henry Stimmler,

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Executive Managing director at Newmark, JosephKhan, founder of Vision r E.
Shimon Isaac Kovitch, chief lending officerand executive vice president at Cross River
Bank. On tonight's show, wewill discuss now, of course, it's
a teaser of what is going tobe at the JACON Real Estate Summit Tuesday,
July eleventh, twenty twenty three,at the Hilton Staton Island in the

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afternoon. Of course, for moreinformation, attend jacon dot com. Attend
jacon dot com. On tonight show, we're gonna be talking about choosing the
right property, spotting the right propertyanalysis and assessment strategy for commercial real estate,
and securing a construction real estate loanand what are the going rates?
Without further ado, welcome to thisgreat team here to a special edition a

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Mind your Business and thank you.Shea Wow, what a great introduction.
Thank you. So the real estateoutlook of twenty twenty three, perhaps shea
and two to three. It's notfair they only give you two to three
minutes on this button. Two tothree minutes. Give us a little information
what to expect at the real estatethe JCON Real Estate Conference. Thank you
once again, and thank you tomy fellow people on this radio show.

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So it's definitely exciting to be hereonce again. And yeah, so the
upcoming real estate conference that like youmentioned, it's the sixth annual, it's
pretty much, you know, bringingthe professors in the industry, people who
are in the real estate space.Everyone is, you know, somewhat different.
Some people are into leasing, sales, construction, finance. But as

(04:09):
long as people are within the space, we'd love you to be. If
you're not mistaken. In the past, you drew over six hundred or close
to six hundred people. Yeah,our our riture event has about seven hundred
people, and we hope to havean even better crowd. And yeah,
so the idea really is to bringpeople up to date as we'll hear from
the professionals today. You know,we're leasing stands or finance or loans or

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you know, assessing properties. Sothat's definitely some of the topics that will
be covered at the event. AndI definitely want to turn it back over
to you to ask our raving questions. Henry Stimmler coming to us for tonight
Show Live from Florida, and Henry, how are you today doing great?
How are you guys amazing? Soyou know, how does someone know perhaps

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you can give your take, howdoes someone know how to buy a property?
Some background in terms of really spartinga great deal now mid twenty twenty
three, So first of all,you gotta choose your spots right. So
we've had seven years of good everything'sbeen hunky dory. You bought a property
two years ago, cap rates kepton declining, you're making money. It

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was very, very simple. We'rein a whole different ball game right now.
Now it's no longer just buying anythingand value is going to keep on
going up. Those days are over. So now you really have to pick
the right spots to buy in andyou have to have the right strategy to
buy in. Two years ago,I would say what everyone was buying was
value. Add multi family that wasvogue. You bought a seventies product,

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you put some money, you fixthe units, you retenanted the units,
you went back to the bank withyour new rent roll and you had a
cash out refight, those days areover. First of all, it's very
hard to buy value add today becauseyou don't have floating weight. Loads today
are so expensive. Typically the floatingright loads are over sofa. Sofas that
close to five percent, so thatwhole business is kind of shut up shop.

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So what are you meant to buy? If you've been a value add
buyer in the past, you fixthe units. Today it's very hard to
cash out refight where rates are,you have to change your strategy. So
what we're seeing is we're seeing alot of stress on the merchant builders,
guys that built properties. Merchant constructionloans are all floating rate loans. Those
loans when they started two years ago, sofa was at ten. Now sofa

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is at five. They're paying threefour hundred over sofa, so their cost
of their monkey boring costs have gonethrough the roof. So there's tremendous pressure
on the merchant builders. They needto sell, they need to move on.
They're paying eight nine percent, they'regetting destroyed. So that's where I
think the opportunity is today is tobuy new built multi find the developers that

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are struggling and take advantage of thatand buy very well based on price for
pounds because you know that. I'llgive you an example. Austing was trading
in a three cap market today,so a typical unit, and also was
three fifty plus. That same propertytoday in Austin is trading for two fifty
two sixty two seventy, so there'sa huge price delta. Take advantage of

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those opportunities. We're speaking when HenryStimler, executive my executive managing director at
Newmark Shia Brad, I hand itover to you. Okay, that's very
interesting. So I guess if youhave to define which markets do you think
are doing better than others, whetherit be geographical, territory or like you

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mentioned before, a different asset class. So I'm going to stick to Malti.
I don't really want to talk aboutwhat's going on office. It's not
my corecumbency and we all know what'sgoing on office, so I'm not going
to add any new tradition there.Let's let's stick to Malti. So I
think the best places to buy todayis slow and steady wins the race you
had markets that went through the roofTampa went from three percent market both to

(07:51):
nineteen percent market growth. That isnot sustainable. So you want to go
to markets that just slowly tick up, nice, nice rental, solid markets,
not places where you've got a tonof units coming online. I love
the Midwest. I think the Midwestis always slow and steady wins the race.
I love Columbus because again Columbus,Lexington, Saint Louis, the Indianapolis,

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these markets are seeing great rental growth, but they never had the capra
compression that the Sun Belt States did. Texas, Carolinas, Atlanta, Austin,
Texas, for example. It nevergot that hot in those markets.
So you can go into those markets, buy decent cap rates, and you're
not exposed to the risks you havein markets that got overheated and all the

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developers went running to bring on thousandsof new units. I want to read
you something very interesting that came outon Real Page Analytics two days ago US
apartment rent growth leaders. So obviouslyMiami where I am, we all know
what's going on Miami, and it'sabout eight point one percent rent growth,
and then afterwards you're gonna be verysurprised. One of the next numbers number
two is nor the new Jersey veryclosely behind Miami at seven point nine percent

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rental growth, then Cincinnati, Ohio, Indianapolis, Columbus, Kansas City,
and Saint Louis. So you seethat the hot markets of last year I
last year's hot markets. The goodsolid markets today is predominantly made up of
the Midwest markets. Very interesting.Thank you for that. What about value
added? We're just to get backI know Henry mentioned this before. Question

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is can you buy value add dealsin this market? Just to hold onto
that? Okay, so the onlyready way to buy value add deals date,
Remember what was the whole sticker valueadd last year? The year before,
everybody was going to debt funds oran eighty percent purchase one hundred percent
of CAPEX future fundeds. You weregoing in, You're gonna put fifteen thousand
dollars into fifty pund units. Thedebt funds were lending you that money,

(09:46):
and then you would do the workand then you would take out your debt
fund load with an agency loan.When you pushed NY to day to brow
from the debt funds, you're payingfour five hundred over sofas you're paying nine
percent. That does it make senseanymore. The agencies don't borrow, don't
lend future funding, so you haveto come out of your own pocket the

(10:07):
money you're going to put into theproperty, and to get that money out
it's going to be very difficult.So the only place value add really works
is if you're already buying a highcap rate deal. If you're buying a
five and a half, five,nine, five, eight to six cap
deal, that's where value add willwork. But anything skinnier than that,
you can't buy a four You can'tbuy a four cap deal and say,
oh, it's going to grow toa six caps. It's too much of

(10:30):
a delta, it's too far apart. The only deals for value add that
makes sense today are again, highcap rate markets. Very well said,
thank you for that. And beforewe continue, if we can just remind
people, yes, this show isa preview of the upcoming Jcon Real Estate
Summit, which is going to beheld on Tuesday, July eleventh at the
Hilton and Staten Island. It's inthe afternoon. It's worth basically six to

(10:54):
ten. It's about from four thirtyand oh, I'm sorry, four thirty
until ten and all right, man, people come early there's a lot of
food, by the way, notthat you're going for the food. You're
going to get your brain watered forthe real estate market of twenty twenty three.
But there's a lot of good foodas well. Right, it doesn't
hurt she right, there definitely is. There's a lot to do there.
But you know, people come originally, you know, for all the seminars

(11:16):
and panels and keynotes, and thenwe have you know, the dinner and
networking and and share we share.We have some fantastic besides the guys on
this show, we goes, gotsome fantastic other guests that have great insight,
great market intel. They're in themarket from owners, buyers, brokers.
So we've got a really good bunchof people that will give out some

(11:37):
really good information, real knowledge,real takeaway, real takeaway, and for
a wide range type of people,anyone who is in the world of real
estate. This is for them,just like the key Tri State Tri State
area event for the real estate forthe real estate market. And it's also
essentially located. We moved it toStaten Island this year, so it's right
off the highway not far from JerseyCoast to Brooklyn. One of the hot

(12:00):
markets. As hen we just said, that's right, We're gonna go to
a short commercial break. When wecome back more with our great panel tonight
show the real Estate Outlook of twentytwenty three will be right back. Shea
Rubinstein, executive vice president of theJCON Conferences, inviting you to attend our
real Estate Summit on Tuesday, Julyeleven at the Hilton and Staten Island.

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For more information and to register,please visit attend jcon dot com. Once
again, attend jcon dot com whereyou'll hear from panelists, speakers, networking,
mentors, and anything related to realestate and of course the great food.
Don't miss it once again, pleasevisit attend jcon that's at T E

(12:46):
N D j c O N dotcom for more information, to see all
the different panels in line up,and of course to register. Looking forward
to seeing you once again at attendjcon dot com for the JCON Real Estate
Summit Tuesday July eleven at the Hiltonin Staten Island. Paraflight Luxurious and private.

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Group dot com. And we're backMind your Business at six Aplas right here
on seven ten war the Voice ofNew York End Tonight show, brought to
you in part by the JCON Conferences, is all about the upcoming JACON Real
Estate Summit, which is gonna betaking place on Tuesday, July eleventh,

(15:41):
just around the block, just aroundthe corner at the Hilton and statn ISL
centrally located in the Tri State area, from Brooklyn, from Long Island,
from Muncy, from Lakewood, fromBergenfield, from the whole Tri state area.
Now, there's gonna be some starscoming in. Were speaking with Henry
Stimmler. There's gonna be stars comingfrom around the country because the show is

(16:02):
all about the real estate outlook intwenty twenty three. And that's tonight show
as well, which is a prefuela preview of the upcoming JACON conference to
JACON Summit that's around the corner.Now we're going to turn to Joseph Khan,
founder of Visionary. Joseph, thankyou and thank you for taking out
the time and joining us here andmind your business. Thank you for having

(16:22):
me. Yes, you're welcome.So we turned to you. What are
the three most important tips to lookfor when purchasing a property? I wish
you was so simple as all methree things, But we'll start out with
the easiest one. Okay. Iwant gotta know what you're getting yourself into
and when you're marketing. So ifyou're you know, people call the old

(16:44):
time asked like how do I getstarted real estate? And I always tell
them what are you like? Whatare you? What talks to you?
One of the things that you knowthat get you up in the morning and
to go there is the development.Is it buy your property that's existing?
Do you like multi family? Doyou like welfis? Do you like?
You know? There's so many differentthe real estate be IM clients. You
know, we asked the manage fortwels. Everything has a real estate component

(17:04):
to it. What is your interestingNumber one thing? It's few, So
you got to make sure that somethingto keep you engaged and keep you interested.
You can be a signed that makesa lot of money, but if
you don't focus, the money's gone. So number one thing is what folks
to you? After that, thenumber secondly is understanding your market. No,
Henry was talking about the three camps, four camps, many these deals.
You know the Midwest. We've doneworking last year. We didn't work

(17:26):
at thirty six states. There areso many markets across the country. You
gotta know your market. And justbecause the deal is a great deal and
the guy who bought around the cornerfor a foe cap doesn't mean that the
deal two blocks over is the samething. You didn't realize that heat on
thirty six units next door were alsothree tails games next door, so he's
adding another thirties to him. Youknow, there's no cost of managing it.
You can do a better deal thatyou can. So you gotta understand

(17:48):
your markets. Real estate is reallya very local business. You know.
Real estate literally changes block to block. You know, you have a set
of train tracks, it changes thewhole area. So you really have to
know where you are, know yourlocal area, and know what's important to
you and understand that all that is. Like one of the most things that's
lost the most in real estate ispeople think, oh the Midwest, oh

(18:10):
far, it's a great market.You gotta know your sub market, you
gotta know your block. You gottaget focused, and you have to understand
where you really are. And thenthe last step is you gotta stay focused.
So the same way I said inthe beginning, it's all about what
you know and how you gonna learnit. Start small and grow from there.
But if you do the first twosteps, the third steps the easiest
part. I always say that thatwhen you buy a property, the deal

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isn't done when you buy it.The work starts when you when you buy
it, and you've got to bea good steward of that property. It's
not just heads in beds. You'vegot to look after the property. It's
a living, breathing organism, right, and if you don't take care of
it, if you don't look afterit, if you're to look after your
tenants, then out to me,you're probably gonna fall into the reviews are
gonna be bad. So just buyingthe property, that's nothing. It's really

(18:56):
maintaining and looking as now we markethundred scent. I've really kept to this
realization. You know, the lastfew months would involved let's say, the
last year would involved in a lotof these deals that we're done in twenty
twenty, twenty twenty one and eventwenty twenty two that have gone sound.
One of the things that I've realized, it's some of the biggest issues HR.
People think I bought a multifamily property. I collect runs. You don't

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realize that to run a property DAstaff. You don't have to write staff
on a property, you're dead andHR. It's so much a part of
real estate. Yeah, if you'renot good at HR, you can't be
buying multifamily properties. Even if youcan do third party match with companies.
So it's all about the humans onthe ground. The bat manager is not
collecting the rent, but he's notthinking get the tenants, and the tenants
aren't amy next year they move out. It's so so important, the human

(19:41):
human part of Parliament is like youknow, people just thought it like,
yeah, I buy a property anddo some monivations to it. I'm done.
It doesn't work that lay some pimaticfix the toilets. If you wait
three weeks to fix some tenants toilet, they're gonna write it all over yelp.
If the first thing you do whenyou go to your building, if
you look at the reviews, ifyou have a bunch of bad reviews,
you're dead in the water. Yeah, it does. It's unbelievable how much

(20:03):
people I just forgot that. Youknow, it's actually a business that you
have to operate. Even thought theywere trading the old joke about training so
our things back and behind back,you know back in Europe, you know
when the candistan needs came a littlethat's what they thought they thought, you
know, and through the wa waslike that. I always said that a
year two years ago. Even ifyou did a bad deal, you can
find the next sucker. That's allboys. So if you don't operating properly,

(20:26):
you're dead. There's nothing you cando. And we see even good
operators, you know, they sendthemselves a little bit too them. It's
a real problem today. And bythe way, we're also joined by Shimmon
Isaac coverage from cross River. Ifyou want to jump in anything, just
jumping in. Shimm and Henry andJoseph are doing a great job. I
have nothing to add right to submitted, but I'm sure that I'll have more
to say shortly, but thank youfor the the personal invite. There amazing.

(20:49):
I'm gonna turn to my co hosttonight, Shea Rubinstein. But Joseph
just want to share one thing,and I love the way you opened say
before anything, you gotta know whatyou're getting into. Isn't that just a
great tip on life in general,before you get into involved or anything,
just know what you're getting into.So definitely on that note, So,
Joseph, since you've been to thirtysix states and you have been assessing properties

(21:11):
for property owners, whether they're inthe purchase side or looking to gain value,
what do you see as pointers totake existing properties and add that it
add that to existing value, soyou know, it's actually funny. That's
how sort of we started as developmentconsulting from back in twenty sixteams early twenty

(21:36):
sixteen. I came from that backgroundand off the profit side of the world,
and I started I was development sulpingfirm. We actually got involved with
regular value out and multi valet properties. The first time we were it was
a client Camps said, you're adevelopment sulting firm. I bought a property.
I haven't actually thirty acres. Iwant to build more units. I'm
in a great market. I wantto add more units. And we went

(21:56):
out that first time really getting involvedinside like that, and we went just
like one and a half years andhow business well that we were doing more
straight up ground of development. Wewent. We took the property that they
ready owned that we went out atool for twenty four additional apartments on the
property. And what people don't realizeis that even a existing multifalily property,
there always aren't things you can doto increase value and increase returns, whether

(22:18):
it's you know, go putting andself storage in the property and then charging
tenants extraally for it, whether it'sgoing around and you know, start the
charge of amenity sees and things likethat. They're always you know, providing
better amenities to get that tenants topay that. There's always these you can
too to existing properties to try toincrease your returns, make a better hand
and experience and things like that,and then people believe it or not.
Even in some of the worst markets, if you give the person a better

(22:41):
experience, they will pay for it. So you always have to be looking
at your operations. Bring out whatam I doing today? What I want
to start doing tomorrow? How doI improve my operations? There are a
lot of deals that people bought totread futurely and you can't do that anymore.
So now you got to go backand say, hey, so what's
going on in my property today?Can cut expenses right? You know,
we walked the property, go backand into November. You know it was

(23:07):
it's like six hundred units. Theyduring COVID, they weren't able to keep
their maiden staff, those clean departments, you know, keep the hallways clean.
They's boarding on a third part ofcompany. They started at eighteen thousan
an hour before anyone turned around.There are twenty eight and we were like,
one second, how you paying twentytholluars? It's crazy. So you
really have to be on top ofyour day to day expenses and top of
your day to day operations to figureout is there an opportunity here. Sometimes

(23:29):
you have units that are down,you know, maybe don't want to invest
now back into them instead of givingreturns to go put those units back online.
You can't. You know, itused to be to just sell up
to the next person, tell himyou go take out a first of all,
to go do that work. Youcan't do that anymore. So it's
really about how do I take whatI have and keep it going and do
better with me and she I alwayssay. I always tell my clients the

(23:49):
best way to drive revenue to yourproperty is create a kinship between your current
tenets and the property. Because outof New York, nearly every other large
multi family the turnover is each yearfifty percent will leave. So if fifty
percent of your rent role is turning, you've got to repaint, retenant,
release. It's a lot of work. How do you keep more people in

(24:11):
your buildings? You create a kinship. Kids knowing each other in the building
force their parents to stay at theunit. So make things for kids,
make barbecues, get the tenants toknow each other, making a little ecosystem.
When they have that where they havefriends living the building. When the
sun has of sun on another onthe fourth flord, he goes runs and
please there, they're going to bemuch more hesitant to lead it to go
across to the next building because theyhave a kinship to the building. Things

(24:37):
for the tenants. Yeah, today'smark, that's more more point than ever
because a year ago you wanted themapp so you can raise the vans twe
one hundred hoars. That's over wood. Just got to be very careful because
what happens is when you get allyour talents together, they cross ginka back
on you and come back and tryto kill you. So if you got
it's a careful balance. You know, we've done actually four clients pre purchase.

(24:59):
You've actually create events where we boughttennants together. Like we had properties
that needed a lot of work andour client was buying it, and we
actually sat down and cooled the communitymeeting before we actually purchased the property pour
client, and we had a meetingwith all the residents beforehand. We split
them up. We don't want tovote to get them all on the same
move without use today. Just so, we worked at the bud it up
at the four four groups and wecalled them up for meetings and we met

(25:21):
with them. We does more thanonce with the side of our clients,
especially on the poor of Ahunting side, and it makes a huge difference.
You gotta be commutative. You gottadiscuss things with people who remember they lived
there. This is the the line. This is where they're coming home every
night and they're gonna be upset ofyou. They're gonna come after you,
and they're gonna get gag ups.It's very important that if you want to
keep people. You know, wetold one of our clients recently, they
just start adding, you know,Sunday morning play things for kids, right

(25:45):
and having every Sunday morning, youknow, buying an outside company to do
events for kids. They you know, to come and paint all those things.
And even in their pool right now, they just made a new rule
that only you can only go tothe pool within between nine and twelve on
Saturday and Sundays. If you're withthe talk, why are they doing that?
They want the mothers both to gettogether and read other mothers and see

(26:06):
a huge property. And they madea rule that between the out in the
afternoon you get older people. Thereare people are drinking, not really appropriate
for kids. So nine am thetwelve am, you can always come to
the pool if you're if you're accompaniedby a child. And we definitely see
this trend around the country. Yousee amenities being put into all the new
properties. And I'm always reminded ofyou know, people do business with people,
not with products. So it's definitelytrue that if you make them feel

(26:30):
comfortable in the space, it helps, whether keeping the commodity or adding you
know, new tenants, less turnover, retention. So that's definitely something and
it's and it's so important. Italmost goes to marketing as opposed to real
estate. But you need to bethat full package in order to like you
mentioned, you know, see itas a full package as opposed to your
trading stocks. You purchased it andyou're out. Yeah, it's it's also

(26:56):
each mindset change be fine. Solike magic on, this was the last
year. The goal was actually toget them out and now that's over with,
so it's it's been a very veryhard reset for the companies. But
you know, we're constantly we doask the match our properties. We're constantly
talking to magical companies. And thisis really signed that we've been pushing on
our our you know, third partymagical companies. You got to go back
to that way of doing business backat twenty twelve, twenty thirteen. We're

(27:18):
trying to keep the tents there.We're in new markets, so that makes
sense. So the questionnaire is,so the questionnaire is, you know,
we discussed about, you know,what to look at the property and how
to add value. But now onthe flip side, because it's not the
way it used to be, howdo you come in and do uh clean
up? So they bought the property, they ran into trouble, how do

(27:41):
you navigate their exposure? So it'sbeen very interesting times in our office here.
We've worked actually variously, sometimes workingto the GP, which is General
the Princeton put the other deal.They've they've been high us and they've been
times they've been hired by what wecall the elpis living a partners the investors
in the deal. And we've beendoing this, you know, across the

(28:02):
country. I think our staff hasmore just in property that people already owned.
We've walked in the last fell monthsof ten thousand apartments trying to help
them figure out what they need todo, what's going on there, and
we're you know, every day ofthe week we have someone else at different
property month that helped finds to this. It's a real problem. Every one
of them has a different story.It's much more nuanced, much more complicated.

(28:23):
I think the one overarching thing isthat a lot of these guys footbridge
that they didn't have, you know, floaters, and there's no exit.
There's no exit here, which isthe problem. Some of them are you
know, there's no such thing ofthe guy not doing a bad deals.
Some of them are bad deals anda lot of them also just need focus.
Right. It's when when you wereplanning on selling it in two years

(28:44):
and getting out your money and it'snot happy now, you know, it's
natural to get the press and tryto like, you know, to fight
on. It is very hard becausethey can't pay any returns to their investors
because they just pay all the moneyto keep current because the cap rates weren't
tight enough. All they need tobuy a new cap which costs a fortune
to date, So your invest ison getting money. You're not making any
money, but you still have tooperate the property. You're basically all you're

(29:07):
doing is working to the lender.Yeah, and it's even worse than that
now working for London is that alot of these guys never been through a
down cycle at least can't see thelove of Downe of the tunnel. So
sometimes we go in there and we'relike, there is no love of Downe
in the tunnel. There is adeal that has to go back, unfortunately,
and that's part of the part ofthe businesses that you know, when
banks right on the right well andthey understand that you know, three four

(29:29):
or five percenting are going to comeback and I'm going to a receivership.
It's just the way you know ofnormal underwriting and risk roar. Do you
ever get involved on the financial sideto try to help bail them outterf it's
a financial consideration. We so we'vesuccessfully just recently for the first time.
You know, we're not business longenough to done workouts back in two downs
and hey we actually just did ourfirst workout with the bank. Um it
was a lounder or five a Londonrecently sometimes Yeah, sometimes though I think

(29:55):
banks are started to wake up andrealizing more today than they were even three
months ago, having the initially theyhave, are becoming a little bit more
willing to work with you. Um, it's a bit of process, you
know. It's it's so like thoseseven stages of the Nile, or maybe
have the stage three or four ofthe Wonders to start to real they have
a problem. How do they wantto build up? Simon? Do you
want to China Shimon? Would youlike to chime in on this issue since

(30:18):
you are the bank I was,I would absolutely love to chime in,
and I appreciate that. Yeah,to your point Joseph, and and and
Henry earlier, but without a doubt, certainly banks are recognizing the challenges that
some barrows are facing. And whatI think is crucial. Similar to the
comment you made earlier about tenants andlandlords having communication, it's the banks and

(30:41):
the barrowers having that open dialogue.It's crucial to saving even if it's not
the best deal today, or it'snot the deal that whether the lender envisioned
it that way, or whether it'sthe deal that the barrow or envision it's
the communication that is crucial to salvaginga deal. And we've seen deals,
you know, in the twenty sevenyears that I'm doing this now, I've
seen good deals go bad simply becausethe communication gap exists, you know.

(31:07):
And even if it's not the bestdeal, communicating that will generally encourage both
the bar and the lender to comeback to the table and restructure it where
it's amicable for everybody. Nobody wantsto win here, right. This is
not the bank saying, Okay,you know we're in a better position.
We're going to leverage that. Youknow, it's all about communication. And

(31:30):
at the end of the day,if you communicate properly, everybody wins.
Otherwise everybody loses. There is nomiddle ground for the most part there and
there's a new paradigm as well,which we haven't seen me fullsham and I'm
sure you've seen it. Of thesebig, huge institutions just handing back keys,
right, it's now cool, it'sin vogue. Blackstone have given back

(31:52):
keys, huge companies, Starwood,they're just saying, you know what,
I'm washing my hands with us yesterdayin San Francisco at the Tyson Family,
which is one of the lot offamilies and you're handed back the keys to
two hotels of over one thousand keyshotel. This is a brand new paradigm.
So I couldn't agree with you more. If you have a problem with
your loan, don't bury your headin the sand. Tell your lender because

(32:14):
communication is so important. And I'mgoing to my cousin. Then they're gonna
work with you. They don't wantto own the property, that's all.
They trant me a good lenda.Well, it depends on who which slender
we're talking about. You know,there are some that are landers. But
I always thought my clients to compacton the GPSIE and I having issues.
If you're honest with your bank,your investments, everyone will be happy to

(32:35):
work with you, not only now, but next time around as well.
So you know, there's a storyof an I can go in the names
here now. But you know NewYork um Solar bradishes around Tree four years
ago in New York and they workedthe Landers, they worked with everybody.
They personally wiped out as a GP. But they're doing deals again. Why
because the banks appreciate that they werehonest. They understand they made some mistakes

(32:58):
and some issues, but they nevertry them find their problems, and then
what do you call if you wantto survive. It's very similar to the
way. But a lot of thebig families were able to survive. A
lot of the big lens of starwars in the world was able to survive
away because they work to the Londons. I think on the office side,
now they realize it's just mothering theycan do. That's why that they think
it's implow to him at the keysand have to sit there a fight.
But yeah, if you're honest ofyour investors and you're arts and your lenders,

(33:21):
everyone is thin. You know,it's normal. Not every deal it
has to work out. And alsothat's and that's the Shimen's point before about
communication, just straight up. Andthe Americans love a comeback story. You
guys love a comeback story. Youlove the underdog story. So comebacks are
very cool in the US. Soit's okay if you were down the bottom,
you can always come back. ButLawrence, don't do a thing stupid

(33:45):
along the way. I always comeany clients we did that, you know,
there are so many things that youcan do that were creating the mortgage
for it, or create other issuesthat creating with the faults. Just be
honest. I know it's very hardfor people to stand up and admit their
problems and especially go back to Londonwith the head behind the day, and
it's hard. It's not always aneasy conversation, but it's the right thing

(34:06):
to do. Again, going backusing your example Henry two thousand and eight,
the first thing you know we didas a bank, and every other
bank out there, you look back, You look at the relationships you have
and how they dealt with the problemsduring the prices everything you know, all
you know, things will pass.This environment will pass the same way.
We will look back and learn fromit. Certainly, some mistakes were made

(34:28):
and some mistakes will still be made, but you can learn who you want
to do business with as this passes, and those are the relationships. Certainly,
as a bank we're going to lookto keep and I'm sure other banks
are going to do the same becausethere are gonna be barers. They're going
to hand back the keys. Sometimesthat's the only answer. But it's all
about how you go about that thefault or that unfortunate situation and jerison as

(34:52):
you mentioned you've got some proprietory.You've got some lenders that are very aggressive.
I want to take the properties thoseguys, people will never go back
to them if they have a namenow in twenty twenty three that are aggressively
going to take properties back from people. In the long run, they're not
going to get business because people willstay away from those lenders that are too
aggressive and won't work with you.They'll know food going in the future.

(35:12):
This is a lender I don't wantto work with, and me and myself,
I won't bring business to them becauseI want my lenders to understand and
be in the foxhold with my clients. This is a great conversation. I'm
happy that it went on for thislong because it's such an important hafic And
of course to just give a littlepromo to the upcoming JCON real estate,
this is some of what will bediscussed. You have people that are coming

(35:32):
from industrial, multi family, construction, development, finance and all these people
want to know what the state ofreal estate and what that forecast is that's
going to take place over the nextsix, twelve and twenty four months.
So once again it from more informationto register and see who will be headlining
this event. Visit at tend jcondot com. That's attend JN dot com

(36:01):
once again. The event will beheld on Tuesday, July eleven at the
Hilton in Staten Island. Back toyou here we take a short commercial break.
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(38:39):
Shea. Rubinstein, Executive Vice Presidentof the JACON Conference, is inviting you
to attend our real Estate Summit onTuesday, July eleven at the Hilton and
Staten Island. For more information andto register, please visit attend jcon dot
com. Once again, attend jcondot com where you'll hear from analyst,

(39:00):
speakers, networking, mentors, andanything related to real estate and of course
the gray food. Don't miss itonce again, please visit at tend jcon.
That's at t E N D JC O N dot com for more
information, to see all the differentpanels in lineup, and of course to
register. Looking forward to seeing youonce again at attend jcon dot com for

(39:24):
the JCON Real Estate Summit Tuesday Julyeleven at the Hilton in Staten Island.
And we're backmind your business with you, sux Aflis right here on seven ten
WR Tonight Show brought you in partby Jacon. We're giving you just a

(39:45):
preview. Before the break, therewas some incredible conversation between Henry Stimmler,
the executive managing director at Newmark,Joseph Khan, founder of Vision Ari,
and Shimeniza Covage, chief lending officeran executive vice president at Cross River Bank.
And it's just a teaser of what'sgoing to be coming up at the

(40:05):
Jacon Real Estate Summit. For moreinformation at ten jacon dot com at ten
jacon dot com. It's taking placeon Tuesday July eleven, twenty twenty three,
at the Hilton and Staten Islands centreally located, no excuses. It's
from four thirty to ten pm onTuesday July eleventh. Shea. I turned
to you, I think we gotto give Shimon, you know, a

(40:27):
word take. Shiman joined, butyou know he has a lot. Perhaps
we could jump in with some questionsCross River Bank sure, and Shimon,
thank you for joining us. AndI think we can get a more of
a unique perspective. We've heard fromyou know, the leasing side, the
purchasing or maybe even you know howto value property. But my question to
you from the lending side is Iguess you're on the other side of the

(40:51):
table. So how do you assesshow the state of real estate is slowly
changing or how do you forecast thechanging over the next twelve months. So,
first of all, thank you somuch, Shea and yet Luck for
inviting me here this evening, Henryand Joseph. Great meeting you and spending
some time with you here. Sothank you for the for the opportunity.

(41:14):
UM loaded question, Dear josh Um. Obviously, we're in a very volatile
environment. Goes without saying many challengesexist today that uh, you know,
many people are not expecting or oror certainly are not prepared for. Um.
So it's certainly a challenging environment.But along with challenges, uh,

(41:34):
in you know, I find thatthis is where the best opportunities present themselves.
Certainly easier said than done, andI'm certainly not minimizing uh you know,
some of the you know, challengesthat that certainly exist. UM.
But you know, I could speakfor myself, speak for the organization,
you know, for Cross River.You know, we've been through some ups
and downs. We were born inthe height of the risis in two thousand
and eight, so we understand,you know, some of those dynamics.

(41:58):
I'm doing this, you know,at twelve years prior to that, so
I've seen some ups and downs andcertainly some some challenging environments. Who are
you know the twenty seven years orso that I'm doing this um And it's
it's it's all. It's really aboutsticking to some of the fundamentals that that
uh that may have gone to thewayside over the last few years. When
it was more like shooting fish ina barrel and you found the deal,

(42:21):
it made sense, there was upside. All you have to do is you
know, as Joseph and Henry bothsaid earlier, you know, a little
bit of capex, a little bitof a turnaround, and your building's worth
more. You can refight, paybackmaybe some of your vests if you're if
you know, if it was asyndicated deal, or just put money back
into your pocket and do it again. You know. Some of those fundamentals,
or some of those opportunities rather areprobably not as prevalent UH in the

(42:44):
card environment, but along with it, others will present themselves. We may
not see them as opportunities as Isaid, they may you may have to
peel back some layers there, uh, in order to identify them. But
you know, rolling up your sleevesin this environment is properly probably the best
thing to do right now, wherewe will all look back and and and

(43:05):
recognize that this was probably a betteropportunity to developed some real, real wealth
in some real tangible assets as opposedto some of the other kind of um
you know buying and dealings that occurredduring the last cycle or the last few
years certainly of the cycle. Socertainly a market of opportunity, but maybe

(43:27):
not the same h or the waypeople expected it to present themselves. So
a little bit of hard work,a little bit of um creativity, Um,
I think this is probably the bestmarket for that. As they say,
when there's blood of the streets byland, and there is definitely blood
in the streets, So Joe,I think, I think would would you

(43:49):
say this is probably one of thegreatest opportunities to buy and established wealth in
our lifetime? Yes, right overthere, just yet, I one found
something in the back six to twelvemonths, especially if you can pick up
a building, you know, anolfice buildion and figure out a way to
repurpose it and you're paying twenty fivesomething at all what the last person paid
for it. I was in aKnoxville, Tennessee this week and we saw

(44:12):
a building I've been going down thestreet and the guy goes to that looks
weird. It's an hotel. Itwas once an office building. Right.
If you can take that opportunity ofbuy staging a twenty minus of dollars,
you can figure out how to repossessit to put apartments and starting in student
housing. But started that, you'llcreate real generational wealth. Of course,
your entry point is so loo.That's you know, it's not about just
making that little gap the fourth ina five camp and sawing out a five

(44:35):
camp. But we find out apodcast. Yes you made money, but
it's not it's not generational wealth.You know, people who got into this
business in two thousand and nine andtwo ten, two eleven, a lot
of those people created generational wealth bydoing that. And it's every cycle we've
been through a real estate for thelast hundred years, and it's been funny
of cycles. That's what people survivedin ninety two cycle and started that.

(44:57):
You know, as long as wecan get the lending star, which is
when we need showing, then weneed Henry to actually give them all of
those bills and put out a wayhow to make those lending work. There's
real opportunities going forward for everybody.Yeah, on the office conversion side,
that's very interesting you mentioned that becauseNewmark just did a very very large deal
one on five Water Street was theformer JP Morgan Bank building. The principles

(45:19):
of Newmark bought that, bought theloan, foreclosed on the deal, took
the deal for pennies on the dollar, got themselves a construction loan and are
now and got the mayor and huckleto change the designation of downtown from office
to a parliament and now we're goingto do the largest conversion in history.
Who are fifteen hundred new units cominginto New York. And for them,
it's a basis plate. They've boughtthe bankrupt building. They bought it for

(45:43):
pennies on the dollar. It lendsitself to a conversion. So that's going
to create a tremendous amount of wealthand a tremendous of needed housing. So
if you can, if you canfind a way to understand how to do
that when they're the office market,then you're going to crush it all to
buy properties that somebody else has abeing able to look after he bought them
two bought it too expendence. Ifhe joke out too much, too much

(46:04):
of a high optane bridgeload, he'sscrewed. You come in, you pick
up the pieces. That's where theopportunities are going to be. It's definitely
about the angle. So I guessmy next question to you, Shimon is
an interesting one because it plays moreinto the secret sauce of lending. So
you're on the bank side. Youknow, we come to a bank,
ask for a loan, We eitherget it, we get spend or we
get turned down. So what aresome of the ways to establish a competitive

(46:29):
advantage in the lending space. Ithink, you know, competitive advantage in
the lending expense, competitive advantage inthe borrowing space. So I guess we'll
focus on the borrowing space. Butwhich you know, again goes back to
some of the fundamentals that a lotof people really got away from or lost
sight of, especially in the lastboom market. If you wouldn't people didn't
focus on some of the basics.And some of these things are really so

(46:50):
fundamental. It's really relationship relationship,And I know it sounds so fundamental,
and it almost sounds like, youknow, not even worth saying. But
I wrapped the meeting literally back toback to this to us sitting down here
tonight, and I was, youknow, I had a client come in
here that for years I would seeand certainly a very active local client here,

(47:15):
and you know, we never gotanything done, as you know brokers
that that brokers deals for him atdifferent banks, and uh, you know,
we just never developed a relationship.He reached out to me last week
and said, we spent some time. I'd like to come into your office.
I'd like to go back to thebasics. I know you're active.
I know you've been active. You'vestopped to your fundamentals to all the years,

(47:36):
even though other banks were, youknow, maybe a little more aggressive
than you were, maybe offering alittle more dollars. I'd like to start
a relationship. I'd like to comeinto your office, meet your team.
Let's build a relationship, because Iknow that's what I need to do for
me to survive this cycle. Andof course I welcome the opportunity. And
I'm finding more and more clients likethat that are going back to the basics.

(47:59):
Sure, there are other banks outthere, there are other lenders.
We're not the only game in town. I recognize that, but the reality
is there are fewer and fewer banksthat are active in this space, especially
in this environment now. And youknow, I'm not too proud to go
back to those basics. Let's youknow, the fundamentals are crucial, and
I'm happy to build my network andbuild on the relationships. And I'd love

(48:22):
to be the bank for those borrowersand many others. I know I won't
be the bank for every borrower.I can't be, but I'd love to
have the opportunity to build those goodold fashioned relationships, shake hands, meet
people face to face, and beable to do things for them that I
wouldn't ordinarily do if I didn't havethat kind of intimate relationship with them.

(48:44):
That is only going to get developedmore and more in this environment. That
definitely makes sense of the time now. And transactions are that by seventy five
percent, that's a huge drop oftransactional size sold. So I didn't know
if you sold the numbers lost youon the multifoundly sale side how low it
is for the first two quarters.So now you have the time. You
have the time to build those relationships. You're the time to be as a

(49:07):
sounding vulture existing clients. You canhelp people that are a little bit of
trouble, be a voice of reason, try and help them, find them
rescue capital, find them alternative lendersthat can help them. So this is
the time now that you can adhereyourself to a lot of people that have
never really given you the opportunity.All those who you are, who are
your clients, you can help themout because we're not so busy doing a

(49:27):
hundred sounds of transactions like we werea year ago. Were partly I think
that you know when you have arelationship in the London and he trusts you,
so if you come there there wasscience unconventional, but he knows who
you are and you've seen you before, they'll be like, okay, I
know you are, I know youcan execute and get the thought. We
have a deal that we worked withthe client with a very unconventional deal.
You know, a local bank thathad a relationship with them knew him was

(49:50):
willing to do it. That's whyour relationships right now, especially where the
mind is to be created, youneed to have those relationships it's not just
about numbers. It's about trust inthe person execution. That's definitely true,
and then shimming going back to lending. So from your bank perspective or maybe
even the broader view, um,are you doing um construction? Are you
cutting back and construction? Multifamily?Single family? Where where do you see

(50:15):
because of today's market that you're pullingback or just the opposite, you're just
leveraging glass, but you're willing tokeep it in that category. It's a
great question. So so actually,and please thankfully, we're we're we're uh,
you know, you're asking some greatquestions. The answer is, we're
not pulling back. Um, we'rebeing careful. But we've always been careful.

(50:38):
So I don't think much has changedfor us the way it may have
changed for some other banks that mayhave, you know, may have been
a little more aggressive, uh,you know, to in order to stay
competitive. We've always taken the approachof bad is not going to be the
driver necessarily of a good deal.It's going to be more about the good

(50:59):
old fast relationship and sometimes a littlehandholding to make a deal work. A
little more creativity, and that's somethingthat has always been it's part of our
DNA, it's the way we builtthis business. We're a very as you
know. This is you know,the New York tri State is the most
competitive real estate market in the countryin spite of everything that's going on.

(51:20):
Sure, there are very hot marketsand pockets in other states, as we
discussed, but at the end ofthe day that the only way to stay
somewhat competitive and or even relevant inthe most competitive market is to go back
to the fundamentals. You tap intothat creativity. Sharpen your pencils. We're
all up these leaves. It's notonly about rate, it's not always about

(51:42):
dollars, and sometimes it's about howcreative you can be to get your hands
around the deal. This environment isno different. If anything, it's much
more of that and we're seeing,you know, Henry, to your point,
yes, value might be down interms of transactional volume. In terms
of sales absolute we are just asbusy as we as busy as we were

(52:04):
a year ago. Kidding not somuch because more sales or less sales.
There are always opportunities within the market, whether it's somebody who's having trouble someplace
sales and if the bank is willingto structure or customize or tailor deal today.
There are very few banks that havethe ability or the wherewithal to do
it, and many of them aredealing with the problems that they have from

(52:24):
deals that they made a year ortwo three. They don't have the time
for capacity to try to structure adeal today. So we're actually seeing a
tremendous amount of deal flow. We'renot doing most of them because they just
don't make sense, but where itcould make sense or where we could be
competitive, we're happy to roll upour sleeves and structure a deal and tailor

(52:45):
a deal that works. But ofcourse it has to work for everybody,
and believe it or not, ithas to work for the bank as well.
And we have a little bit ofan unfair voltage because, especially in
the multifamily space, we're a readyfanny lender. So the agency is one
hundred and sixty billion dollars to putout right. So they're very competitive.

(53:07):
They're very aggressive, especially with missionaffordable deals, very skinny rates, and
you can be somewhat creative when itcomes to the agencies as well the banks
to me as well, you canpick your spot. Certain banks will be
more aggressive on certain deals, butthere are still there is still liquidity out
there. You know, it's amisnowment to say there's no money out there.
Then it's totally not true. It'snot reminiscent of two thousand and eight.

(53:30):
That is not the issue. Theissue is interest rates and cap rates.
That's the issue this time, notliquidity. And just to add to
that, Henry, great, greatpoint, Henry, I just want to
add to that. I think oneof the biggest mistakes banks made in O
eight was slamming the brakes, shuttingtheir doors outside of not having liquidity,
which they can't control that if thathappened otherwise, this is the time to

(53:54):
write those loans that are at significantpremiums and much more secure than some of
the lungs that banks wrote in thelast five years. This is the opportunity
to diversify and write even better paperinstead of just shutting your doors on the
bars that need you most very wellsaid, and I think this is a

(54:15):
great sample of what you'll see whenyou come to the JCON Real Estate Summit
on Tuesday, July eleven at theHilton and Staten Island. And once again
I am sheer Rubinstein from the JCONinviting you to attend Tuesday, July eleven
at the Hilton in Staten Island.For more information and to register, please
visit attend jcon dot com. Willyou'll see the full lineup of all our

(54:37):
speakers, panelists, mentors, andas district mentioned before, a great food
and even a mixologist for the winebar. What a great show tonight show
the real estate Outlook in twenty twentythree, and again it's just a sampling,
a teaser of what people can expectat the upcoming JACON Real Estate Summer

(54:59):
Tuesday, July eleventh and the Hiltonand Staten Island four thirty pm and on.
It's a solid five six hours ofinformation anything about the status of the
real estate industry in twenty twenty three. Tonight the Specials. Thank you to
tonight's incredible lineup my co host,Sheia Rubinstein, the brainchild of the JKON

(55:20):
Business Conferences, Henry Stimler, ExecutiveManaging director at Newmark, Joseph Khan,
founder of Vision Ari and Shimenaza Covage, Chief lending Officer and executive vice president
at Cross River Bank. This wrapsup an incredible edition of Mind Your Business.
Tune in again next Sunday night foranother great edition of Mind Your Business.
Right here on the Voice of NewYork seven ten war have a successful

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week. Seven ten w R andthe iHeartRadio Network present Minds Your Business,
hosted by the president of bottom LineMarketing Group, yet Zaksaflis. Founded in
nineteen ninety two, bottom Line MarketingGroup is a strict creative and execution driven
marketing agency helping businesses by clarifying andpromoting their vision, mission and purpose to

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support its lead generation and customer retentioninitiatives to gain market share in their industry.
Mind Your Business focuses on business andmarketing strategies for success. Tune in
every Sunday evening at ten pm forthis intriguing radio show. Is Jitsok interviews
Fortune five hundred executives, business leaders, and marketing gurus from a wide variety
of business industries. Now Jetsok andhis guests offer their knowledge and expertise to

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help you be successful every Sunday nighton Mind Your Business. Powerful people,
famous names, impactful content. Ialways challenge people what car are you driving,

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what computer are you using? Whatshoes are you wearing? There is
a segment that that doesn't matter.But most other se they are brand consumers.
They have an affinity. I'm onthe board of Nike. People are
passionate about the NIKEE brand. Thatwas Beth Comstock, former vice chair of
GE. Follow on Instagram at businessclass clips for more. The proceeding was

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a paid podcast. iHeartRadio's hosting ofthis podcast constitutes neither an endorsement of the
products offered or the ideas expressed.