Entrepreneurs: Al in Public Relations Is a Game Changer with Paula Phelan

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The following is a paid podcast.iHeartRadio's hosting of this podcast constitutes neither an
endorsement of the products offered or theideas expressed. Everyone can touch AI,
everyone can play with it. Iknow a lot of people are scared to
be on video. You got toevolve. The landscape has definitely changed.
And I'm Richard Gerhart and I'm ElizabethGearhart. You've just heard some great tidbits

(00:24):
from our show. Stay tuned forthe rest. I want to protect your
business. The time is near.You've given it heart, now get it
in gear It's Passage to Profit WithRichard and Elizabeth Gearhart. I'm Richard Gerhart,
founder of Gearhart Law, a fullservice intellectual property law firm specializing in

(00:44):
patents, trademarks and copyrights. AndI'm Elizabeth Gearhart. Not an attorney,
but I work at Gearhart Law doingthe marketing and I have my own startups.
Welcome the Passage to Profit Everyone theRoad to entrepreneurship, where we talk
with startups, small businesses and discussthe intellectual property that helps them flourish.
We have a very special guest,Paula Feelin, who's an advisor for Global

(01:06):
AI Solutions and she's going to betalking to us about the interface between artificial
intelligence and public relations. And thenwe have Stephen Goebern with Steam Worldwide Music
Works. Can hardly wait to hearwhat he's doing. But before we get
to our distinguished guest, it's timefor IP in the News. And what
is IP in the news today?Well, apparently there is a trademark battle,

(01:30):
but it's not a typical trademark battle. Trader Joe's has their name and
their logo and the employees they weretrying to unionize and they took the name.
They didn't take the picture. Theytook a different picture and they made
a tope bag just like the TraderJoe's tope bag, only different, but
they had the name Trader Joe.So Trader Joe's took them to court and
said, you can't use our name. That's trademark violation, right. So

(01:51):
a union who was trying to organizea Trader Joe's created a tope bag that
had the Trader Joe's name on itand they were using this to try to
raise money, and of course TraderJoe's has a trademark on the term Trader
Joe. So as part of thelabor negotiation. They decided to sue the
people who were trying to organize fortrademark infringement, and the court threw it

(02:15):
out, which was a pretty interestingdevelopment because normally this would be considered a
trademark infringement, right, But becausethey were trying to organize and they used
the Trader Joe's name, the courtsaid that was okay, right, Well,
the union people were using it toraise funds by selling these topegs,
but Trader Joe's. I think whatthe court thought was Trader Joe's wasn't really

(02:37):
mad that they were using the trademark. They were mad that they were trying
to unionize, and that's why theythrew it out. This is actually the
second case where this has happened.It's really interesting. In New Jersey,
they had the same type of casewith Medieval Times Medieval Times employees, you
know, the people with the bigturkey legs and the jousting and all that
stuff. They were trying to organizeinto a union and management said, oh,

(03:00):
we're going to sue you because you'reusing the name in your union organizing
activities, and same thing happened.The court threw out the lawsuit because they
were labor organizers. So okay,well let's see what everybody else thinks about
this. Yeah, Kenya, whatare your thoughts? It's very interesting?
Does that mean I get to golike, use fake Louis Vatan somewhere as
long as I am saying I'm funraising, I ain't going to start a

(03:23):
union movement for Louis Vaitan. It'sjust weird. It's so weird. But
I guess, Richard, because you'reour intellectual property expert here, like,
how would you have maybe fought thiscase a little differently? You know,
I'm not really sure that there isa way to argue these things effectively because
the courts are throwing them out beforethe proceedings even get down the road.

(03:46):
So if there's not any testimony,there's not any documents, they're just looking
at it and saying, nope,we're not going to entertain that. My
question is is how far will theygo? I mean, if it's just
one trademark, that's another thing.But what if after they're done organizing the
union starts to go into business andusing the trader Joe's name for something,
right, So how far does thisgo? Paula what are your thoughts here?

(04:10):
The closest thing I could get towould be the author's guild versus Google,
which has brought folks around to it'sokay to take some ip if it's
for the good of the whole.So it sounds like it's a little bit
like that. The intent of atrademark was to be able to protect the
image and the words, So I'mnot quite sure why this is okay now,
Steve, what are your thoughts here? I would have to see the

(04:30):
imagery, the type of fonts.Is it a similar font to the actual
trade of Joe's, you know,things like that, And I'm thinking,
like, you know, how Irelate to this on the music front is
the whole sampling thing or interpolation,how some songs can be inspired from other
songs, and how that goes intochord, you know. So I'm just
thinking like along those lines. SoI get where the chord is coming from

(04:55):
because they're trying to unionize and maybethey're like, let's store it out and
see where this goes. So that'skind of what I'm thinking. Yeah,
but you raise some interesting points,like maybe it depends on the business,
but if it were like a recordlabel or something and the employees were trying
to unionize when they start using therecord label's music or other artists music.
Very interesting precedent for sure. Asalways, if you are interested in learning

(05:19):
more about trademarks, you can goto our website learn more about trademarks dot
com and download free content great informationabout trademarks. Learn more about trademarks dot
com. You can always call Richardor you can call me to go to
Gearheartlaw dot com and we can talkabout this or whatever else you want around
trademarks. So we have Paula Feelinwith us, and as I mentioned at

(05:42):
the outset of the show, she'sgoing to be talking to us about the
intersection of artificial intelligence and public relationsand really a fascinating topic. We've had
a lot of people talking about artificialintelligence on the show, but I never
really thought about mixing artificial intelligence andpublic relations. So that's kind of a
new spend. So welcome to theshow. Paula. Tell us what you're

(06:02):
doing in this area. A lotof things. I've been working in quantum
computing prior, and I had beeninvolved in several different projects with AI,
basically within the platforms, and thenwhen open, AI rolled out CHATGBT.
It just changed the world in avery very dramatic way, so that anybody
who's listening, anyone who has astartup or an existing company, AI is
the future. I've been in techfor a lot of years and there's nothing

(06:27):
like this ever. Everyone can touchAI, everyone can play with it right
now, in this moment in time. Anyone who has an idea has imagination.
In fact, that's what I sayabout AI. It's only limitation is
your own imagination. Anything that youwant to do, it can do with
you right now. Anything that youhave a question about, how to fix
my product, how to move myproduct the next level, any of those
things. AI can help you addressthose right now. But aren't you concerned

(06:51):
that AI is going to eat usalive? It's going to change our life.
It's really going to change it isright everything, and that is why
eighty percent of also worry you though, no, it's here and we live
with it, and this is what'shappened. Some people are afraid of it,
don't like it, think it's horrible. But it doesn't matter like you're
saying, because you have to knowwhat it is and you have to know

(07:12):
how people are using it if you'rein business, so that you can use
it the same way or better,you know what. I am generally opposed
to government regulation, but I willsay this is one area where I think
we need to take a hard lookabout how fast we're going to let the
genie out of the bottle, becausethis can just kind of take over and
there's no management of this. Andso where there's certainly a lot of great

(07:34):
things, there's a lot of stuffthat's really scary. I saw a program
where they were using AI to makedrugs and the scientists just to see if
they could do it. We're makingpoisons using AI to make really effective poisons.
So there's a downside to this.We're silly if we don't try to
deal with that. We absolutely haveto, and the EU is one of

(07:56):
the places to look too, firstbecause the EU has done the best part,
especially around privacy instance. The bestway to go after this isn't going
to be around copyright infringement per se, because AI can copy everything. Right
we know about Getty and music inparticular, there's going to be a lot
of issues around the creatives losing toAI. But the way California is approaching
it is. They're looking at itas a privacy issue, So where is

(08:16):
AI attacking privacy? And that's sortof where the court is going there as
opposed to trying to say copyright becausethey've already given up. It's done.
So you are so correct, Butthe genie is already out of the bottle.
It's already there, and so we'regoing to start clamping down and clamping
down. But at the moment,if you've got a great idea, this
is the way to be able togo, we can do this. It's
just a question of do people seeit as a danger because there are only

(08:39):
five companies who are really running thiswhole thing, or maybe even less.
So you've only got a few thatreally have the power in the platform that
we're all using. Well, doesn'tthat make it a little more scary though,
that it's already being monopolized and it'sso brand new, very much,
because one of the things that's goingto start happening is what I'm talking about
now, of everyone to just jumpin really understand what it is, because
eventually will get less and less access. Only corporations will have access to the

(09:03):
full power and the individuals which wenow have the same access a corporation has,
it will disappear so that the masseswill not have access, but we
will be impacted by it. Itwill change our day to day life.
That's also scary because as a smallbusiness person and one who advocates for small
businesses, this is one of thethings that levels the playing field. But

(09:24):
something tells me that there are peopleout there who don't want a level playing
field, right and if they canrestrict and manage this, then that also
makes me even more concerned. Andthe fact that they're using people's information and
their personal information. When people startedposting stuff on Facebook, did they ever
think that AI was going to comealong and start collecting that information and you

(09:46):
know, creating all sorts of dossiersabout people, and you know, all
sorts of stuff like that. Who'sjust never even thought of when you started.
But now look at where we're atright and there's nothing anybody could really
do to stop that. To Paula'spoint, you have to know about it.
As much as your interest will takeyou or your tech ability will take
you, you have to know aboutit because it is impacting our future and

(10:09):
it is impacting your future. Ilove this philosophical discussion. I'm kind of
interested. We've been using it inour marketing for over the last year.
That's I think one of the placeswhen they brought out AI, the people
in marketing were like, yes,it's creeping into every other area a little
more slowly. So what are youdoing with it in marketing? How do

(10:30):
you use it? So in thepublic relations arena, up until now,
you had to actually know the peopleyou were reaching out to. You you'd
have relationships, you understand where they'vebeen in the past, where they were
going in the future. All ofthat. With AI, you don't need
to do that. I never reallythought of the trade off that way.
So much of what we do isbased on relationships, and the quality of

(10:52):
the service that we provide is basedon an understanding of the client's business and
where they want to go. Andthis could be a benefit for you in
the future. But all the thingsthat you just described in terms of the
factors that you look to for folksthat you represent, you could actually put
that into AI right now. Askthose questions and it will give you the
feedback on that individual and that company. But where you come in is you

(11:13):
now can take all that the materialthat would have maybe taken you three four
hours to research. You can nowtake that and add the value add that
you bring to the meeting, thevalue add of experience. That's what AI
won't be able to do. Itwon't be able to look at a lot
of different things simultaneously and say,Okay, this is what we do in
this situation. That's still you.That's all you. I guess. In
terms of how PR applies to people, do you see an implementation outside of

(11:37):
the product space? The process isno different. It's just that the AI
takes all the work out of it, all of the research and the time
that you spend truly trying to understandthat person and where they're focused and all
of that. It will just say, okay, these are the five people
that are really going to care aboutwhat you have to say about your brand
and such, and then build offof those. It's the same thing with

(11:58):
relationships. You don't remove relationships fromthe equation. They're still essential, but
now you're talking to the right people. As opposed to sending out a press
release to three hundred and fifty people, You're going to focus it on ten
people, and actually then those peopleare the ones who are going to reach
out to and actually have communication with. And I confess I am sort of
expanded beyond the PR sphere. PaulaFeeling an advisor for global AI solutions.

(12:18):
Where can people reach you in avariety of places, but certainly Paul at
Nadelfeelin dot com if it's a businessside of it, and if it's the
art side, Paul at Paulafeelin dotcom. And how do you spell feeling?
He is in Paula h l anGreat Passage to Profit with Richard Edelizbeth
Gearhart back for more after this commercialbreak. I represent low cost airlines and

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eight hundred nine one seven eight fivefour six. That's eight hundred nine one
seven eighty five forty six. Nowback to Passage to Profit once again,
Richard and Elizabeth Geerhardt and our specialguest Paula Feelin Artificial intelligence and public relations?
Can you can they use AI asa substitute for like a real PR

(14:52):
person up to a point. Byhaving this technology and being able to make
these connections, it just reduces thecall as a high priced agency. For
a lot, many many years,I could not support startups, not really.
A lot of my friends of course, are doing startups and such,
and there was nothing I could do. There was no way I could financially

(15:13):
be able to support them with thestaff that I had. By leveraging AI,
they can now get quality PR ina way that they wouldn't have had
access to before. And if you'rereally really just getting started, you've only
got a couple hundred dollars, Yes, you can do it yourself, but
be careful. That's the one thing, and that is the difference PR people
are professionals. There is a wayto approach people. There is a way

(15:33):
to have an understanding of what theneeds are and requirements are of the media
and to recognize that as you're reachingout to them. And if you're just
an individual in a startup and Isee this all the time where they just
assume that the journalists are order takersand that is not the case. They're
individuals who have interest and write becausethey care about something and it's a matter

(15:54):
of being able to figure out whothose people are and what they care about
and giving them the right message atthe right time. So one of the
things that you talk about on yourwebsite is how important it is for entrepreneurs
to have a PR strategy and tryto position themselves and their companies as thought
leaders in their particular industry, especiallyif they're looking for investment funding, right

(16:18):
because investors like the thought of investingin a company that has some sort of
presence or is going to have somesort of impact. So maybe you could
explain a little bit more about that. Yeah, this is really important.
Thank you for bringing that up.The concept of you know, if we
build it, they will come isvery strong in Silicon Valley. Its and
we create this technology and then wehope you can find a place to sell

(16:41):
it. It's important to realize fromthe very beginning that the vcs and the
funding sources that you're going to asa startup, they need to hear about
you. They need to know whoyou are and what you're doing and what
it's about before you ask them formoney. So they need to understand at
least that you're out there, thatyou're real in some way. And the
other thing that most people don't realizeis when you go to somebody in your
asking for money, you're not askingfor their money unless it's a private equity.

(17:03):
But even then, those people askto other people for money, and
so they need to be able toexplain to those people why they're giving you
money. So that is one ofthe reasons why PR is so important for
startups. And it always broke myheart that I had to turn people away
because it makes your funding process goso much smoother and you have to do
it anyway, and if you havesome earned media, then it gives your

(17:25):
projects credibility, right because somebody theoreticallyat least thanks enough of your business to
put you out there right and kindof stand behind it. Kayl, I'd
like to take a little step back, Could you please explain exactly what public
relations is and what it encompasses.It's reaching an editor who writes stories and

(17:45):
will listen to your story and thenwrite about it. It's really that simple.
But there's an ecosystem that's part ofthis, and that includes industry analysts
and trade shows and podcasts and awide variety of things you know that go
into it as well, and PRfeeds into all of that. So it's
getting yourself out there in a positivelight and connecting with the people that you
want to have tell your story.It's true. But you know what else

(18:08):
it does? It forces you toknow your positioning and messaging. Paula Feelin,
an advisor for Global AI Solutions.I want to change the focus wondering
about ROI and PR because that's kindof one of the things that people bring
up. It's like, well,Okay, I got a couple press releases,
I showed up on a couple ofprograms. Where's the bottom line contribution

(18:29):
there? What do you say topeople who talk about PR like that?
And I get that question all thetime. My clients were all infrastructure solutions,
so this is big money and probablythe average sale was somewhere. If
anything was less than two million dollarsof sale, I'd be shocked in my
world. If you get a pieceof coverage and you get one lead that
turns into a customer, you're golden, right. And this comes back to

(18:49):
AI and PR too. If you'reselling something at a much lower price,
can you really afford a full onagency unless you're doing big volume. There
is a an ROI issue here,and I say it's all in the pudding
if you can generate the right coveragewith the right people. And it's basically
about leads. The main reason fordoing PR is lead generation. Yes,

(19:11):
expanding your brand and all of thatand getting people know, but it's still
about lead generation. What you wantto be able to do is feel comfortable
with somebody who you know has yourback, and by that you mean somebody
who's not just going to encourage youto go out and spend a lot of
time and money on things that reallyprobably won't help you too much. Absolutely,
it's the caring piece that you can'treplace with technology. Yeah, I

(19:33):
was going to ask you know,when you take a look at brands or
products, what would you say islike the perfect PR storm in terms of
like how to bring those type ofthings to life for a brand. Sometimes
luck, sometimes luck, just thingsbeing at the right moment in history that'll
really do it. It all dependson what fields you're in. Entertainment is

(19:55):
so different than branding for networking solutions. Right, if I was going to
try to do and one thing thatoverviewed everything, it'd be truth. How
honest can you be in your brandingthat people can understand what you are and
what you're doing and why it's important? Paula Feeling, an advisor for Global
AI Solutions. One more thing,How do we get in a hold of
you real quick again? Paula NatalFeelin nad El Feeling dot com or Paula

(20:19):
at Paulafeelin dot com. Passage toProfit, Road to Entrepreneurship with Richard Elizabeth
Gearhart our special guest Paula Feeling,and we will be right back. Do
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Profit continues with Richard and Elizabeth Gearhart. Time for Power Move with Kenya Gibson.

(22:34):
Kenya, So, I had areally exciting weekend in Philadelphia this past
weekend. I actually went down topodcn which was an event that I found
out about about a week ago.It was a free podcasting event for creators
put on by Wallow two sixty seven, which is who I want to get
Power Moved to today. Because herented out the whole met Philly, which

(22:56):
is a big, beautiful theater.There probably about five thousand seats. He
rented out the entire thing, gaveeverybody free tickets who wanted to come,
and he had everyone from Charlemagne theGod who is the creator of the Black
Effect podcast network on the panel,along with the head of video and content
and advertising sales for YouTube. Soit was a very, very, very

(23:19):
awesome event. I learned a lotabout podcasting. And it's funny you go
to these events sometimes you think youknow a lot until you get there and
you're like, oh, there's moreto learn. But I'm giving him power
Move because I liked how he paidit forward, gave something a way of
value to folks, gave them access, and I thought that was a way
to really pay it forward into thecommunity. So Wallow two sixty seven is

(23:41):
our power move for today. Ishe a podcaster? He is. He's
one of the biggest podcasters. He'sthe host of Million dollars worth of Game.
Him and his co host Gilly havethat podcast and they started that from
scratch with no subscribers, and nowthey are one of the top podcasts that's
charting every where you can listen toyour podcast. Wow, congratulations to him

(24:03):
for that. And he's teaching podcaststo people And I heard you guys are
paying it forward in the podcast communityas well, Yes, which provides a
nice segue from Power Move to Elizabeth'sprojects. Tell us what you're up to,
Elizabeth. So I usually talk aboutBlue Streak. I'm still doing that.
I'm working on the website. I'mstill doing the Jersey Podcasts podcast with
Danielle Woolley. We took a littlebreak and we're kind of regrouping podcasts.

(24:26):
You get a format, you doit. It doesn't always have to stay
the same. You evolve, youchange. So we're going to go from
an interview format to where she andI are talking this season about things that
we think are important that people wantto know about. And if you have
a podcast or something on YouTube andyou have the comments open, see what
people are saying in the comments,that's really what they want to know about,

(24:48):
and then you can figure future episodesfrom what people are asking about in
your comments. The next thing though, that we're doing. Richard and I
own a building in Summit, NewJersey. We have the law firm in
there. It almost full at points, but of course then COVID hit,
and even before COVID, people wereremote. So now we have this building
and you can't rent office space forthe Life View because everybody's sitting there with

(25:11):
their buildings half empty. Right.But during COVID, Richard and I,
well Richard mostly I have to givehim most of credit, honestly put together
a podcast studio in the upstairs ofour building. Yes, my inner geek
came out and I got with allthe audio and the visual equipment and just
went crazy. He did. Heset up lights, We had a I
come in and show us like wherethings should be for best effect. We

(25:33):
have a roadcast or mixer for thesound. We just bought a video mixer
editor machine that'll help a lot withthe video part of it. And so
we've been doing that and it dawnedon me that we could let other people
use the studio and we could helpthem with their podcasts. It's very local,
and that's okay. I mean,we can do podcasts consulting outside of
just a local area. But whatI really want to do is have people

(25:56):
come to the studio in Summit,New Jersey with us and do their podcast.
We can help them from soup tonets, like what do you want
to do a podcast on? Whatdo people want to hear about? I
think what people should do a podcastabout is what they're the most interested in,
where they're passionized, and what theylike to talk about. What do
you think I do? I mean, people listen to podcasts because they want
to learn something right, and thisis why I think Passage of Profit has

(26:18):
been so successful because we are considerededutainment, so we're here to educate and
entertain. So if you can finda subject matter that you are an expert
at, or you know you wantto teach people, I think that's the
best way to go. Yeah.Absolutely, And I would agree that I
could talk about intellectual property all dayand all night. The children are tired
of hearing about it, the petsrun out of the room when I come

(26:41):
in. But the fact is isthat it's something I can talk about,
which makes it good subject matter forentertainment and education. But the other thing
too, And Keny, I knowyou're really super tuned into this. This
is not like the early days ofpodcasting where you just grab your phone and
start talking. It's really become abusiness and there are certain ways to do

(27:03):
podcasts right and to get more attention, and the marketing piece is huge.
So I mean, how has thatreally changed? You think from the really
early days. Well, obviously thewhole creation has had this evolution, right,
It started with people's phones. Iwill say though, one of the
things that I learned from that podconthat I went to is that you got
to start somewhere, right, So, if all you have is your phone,

(27:26):
right, you still have access toYouTube, you still have access to
all these audio channels. Start somewhere, and then I think just being able
to cut your content down and findingthe right bits and pieces and right moments
from your content is really going tohelp your content go viral or have like
more engagement. For example, Ilearned that with YouTube, if you pay
attention to where the spikes are inthe watched hours inside of the YouTube studio,

(27:52):
that is probably where you should cutyour reels at cause, and that
will help you create more engagement.So I was like, oh, that's
a little bit of free game rightthere. Right. So I think just
paying attention to the trends, likehow your content is trending, where people
are engaging in certain moments, isreally what you need to pay attention to.
And then eventually, once you canmonetize it a little bit and you
have more resources, you can geta camera situation, you can get a

(28:15):
studio situation. I don't know howmuch is it going to be to rent
Gear Heart Laws Podcast studio. Ifall you want to do is rent the
studio, it's not going to bevery expensive at all. If you want
a produced video at the end,there will be fees for that. So
we're going to bring people in thatare experts that help us. So we're
going to have an array of servicesthat people can pick and choose from what

(28:37):
they need. I have somebody who'sactually doing a meetup with me. Her
name is Stacy Sherman, and she'sspeaking at Podfast in Florida. She's really
good, she does customer experience,and we're going to do a podcast after
the meetup and talk about the highpoints from the meetup. So we'll have
that little podcast going. But I'mthinking kind of for people who aren't very

(28:57):
technical, they don't want to foolaround with having to hook a microphone into
a roadcast or and make sure itworks right and get the lights positioned just
so so their face doesn't look allshadowy and stuff. So I'm thinking for
people that just want to try itout, we could give them as much
or as little as they want.For people that have a great podcast,
know how to do it and justwant a place to do it that soundproofed

(29:17):
and looks really cool, then theyjust have to pay rent. So Paula,
what are your favorite ways? Whatare the channels your favorite marketing channels
to promote podcasts? I would sayiHeart is the biggest, Spotify is the
biggest. Obviously Apple is an audiochannel within itself, right, So you
definitely make sure you want to beon those three. I think it's super
important. There are other ones likethat you could be onto Pandora, Pandora,

(29:41):
Google Podcasts, But like I wouldsay, those are the three major
players. But Podbean is also animportant place to be, Like it'll help
you upload your podcasts and kind ofhelp you distribute it to all these different
places. So I wouldn't say don'tdiscount the smaller guys in the game,
because you'll get a lot of tracksthere in terms of like downloads and listens

(30:02):
and so on and so forth.But one other thing I wanted to share,
which is why I'm glad you broughtthis up, is email marketing when
it comes to podcast is really importanttoo. That's one of the things that
I learned at the conference. Becauseit's real estate that you own. All
these other places that you're putting yourstuff out there, like YouTube, Instagram,
even like all these other audio channels. You don't own that real estate,

(30:23):
right, so at any point intime, they could take your stuff
down. But if you have areally good I guess rolodex built up of
email addresses, that's your core audienceand you always have in you know,
contact to them. So that's somethingI'm going to do better of this year,
is building up my email database.I like YouTube, and the reason
I like YouTube is because you're talkingabout Alphabet as a stock to invest in

(30:48):
if you really want to get inearly on AI stocks. Now, so
Alphabet owns Google and YouTube. Sonow the big monster that is Google is
behind YouTube. And I've said thisbefore, I feel sorry for Apple because
Apple developed this whole thing, andthey've got video podcasts, they developed the
market, they got this really going. And now YouTube is gonna walk in

(31:08):
and say, well, we havevideo podcasts too, because YouTube has podcasts
now, and a lot of peopleare already on YouTube and a lot of
people are searching Google. So we'regoing to just steal as much market share
as we possibly can from you Apple. Sorry, Well that's the way of
the capitalists work. You kind ofwant them going after each other. You
know. The reason I say YouTubeis because I know a lot of people

(31:30):
are scared to be on video.I hate looking at myself on video.
In fact, I'm looking at myselfin the camera right now and it's like,
oh my gosh, really like howdid that happen? But anyway,
you're way too hard on yourself.You are extremely beautiful, thank you dear.
But you can do a faceless YouTubevideo. You can put pictures on
top. There are a lot ofways to do YouTube videos without having to

(31:53):
put your face on there. Youcan still be talking and stuff. So,
as Kenya has pointed out, weused to do this show audio and
then Kenya said we need to dolittle videos of people in front of the
logo for social media. So yearsago we started adding video for social media.
And everybody that comes to the studioneeds to get something for Instagram reels.

(32:15):
They have to put this on reels, and so video gives you that
if you're just doing audio, youdon't get the video piece for all the
social media. What are people whoare thinking about starting a podcast need to
keep in mind in order to starta podcast, well, they either need
to find a studio. I thinkit's easiest to find a studio and rent
it and see if this is somethingthat you really want to do instead of

(32:37):
buying. I mean, we spentprobably twenty five hundred dollars on equipment,
and I would not tell everybody todo that for our studios. So for
me, if I were to doit starting today, I would go to
a studio and just try it thereand have people helping me. What about
just using your phone. You canjust use your phone. The thing is
you're going to get discouraged if nobodyis downloading your podcast. Have the best

(33:00):
content anybody's ever heard, the funniestjoke, but if you don't market it,
nobody's gonna know that it exists.And the other part of that too
is audio quality is where it's atwith podcasts because all you get is the
audio, and lots of times peoplerecording on phones and stuff, you can't
hear it. It's just not professional. Well, your content has to be

(33:21):
good. So I started listening tothis one. These guys were like five
of the big business mistakes ever Iforget who they were, and they're like,
yeah, well we were gonna havefive, but you know, we
decided to just have one. Sowhat did you mean for breakfast this morning?
Tom? So I quit listening toit. I do want to mention
one thing about YouTube really quick,in terms of how it's going to be

(33:42):
different from all the other major playersin the podcast space. So YouTube is
going to be able to serve yourpodcasts to the audiences that are already built
in, that are already engaging withcontent that is similar to yours. So
unlike the audio platforms that are inplace, your podcasts will popular in content
that is similar to yours. Orthey have audience behavior analytics that they're gonna

(34:05):
be able to match your content too, So they're gonna be able to super
serve your content and get it infront of more folks more effectively, which
I think the audio companies need toinnovate a way to be able to do
that. So let's not give awayany more secrets here. We're stopping this
here. Okay, I learned thatfor free, so I wanted to make
sure that moment. But I'm reallyI've been waiting this whole show to hear

(34:30):
from Stephen Gober. He's a musician. He's got steam worldwide music works and
he's been sitting here so patiently andwe're going to play some of his music
on the show. So please,Steven, tell us how you start this,
what you're all about? Anything surrounding, like creative stuff, but mostly
on the music side. So Irun a production company, so I work
with artists, produce records, youknow, mixed records, all that stuff.

(34:53):
We kind of music mostly I'm Jamaican, so you know, reggae,
Dan Saul, hip hop, andnow afrobeats is a thing. Now we're
finding there's less genres around. It'sjust music. It's very open as long
as it feels good, you know, so it's less about the genres.
That is my favorite kind of music, feel good music, of course.

(35:15):
So Steven, how'd you get involvedin the music world and how did you
build this business? Well? Iwas an avid, you know, music
listener, and I would always asa kid just be fascinated how do you
create music? And I'm a bigtechnology buff and I realized that there's a
lot of technology involved in creating musicnowadays. Right now, now there's AI

(35:39):
which is kind of scary for uscreatives. But you know, I'm learning
to adopt some of that into mybusiness as well, you know, using
AI to like, you know,write campaigns and stuff like that. I'm
really exploring that. But yeah,I've been doing it for years. You
know. It's something I'm passionate about, and I just like creating. You

(36:00):
had something you wanted to ask Itoo, am a creative, so people
always ask me it is AI goingto destroy anyone ever making any money from
anything creative? And my attitude isNapster started that. Napster in life.
I managed to do that all bythemselves, so that a creative can't stop
creating. That is who you are. If you're going to do it,
you're gonna do it, and youmight make money, you might not,
but that is who you are andyou can't stop yourself. I don't see

(36:22):
an answer to this, By theway, I believe that creatives just aren't
going to make any money for along time to come, as long as
AI and the Internet are out there. So I'll be curious how you hope
to stay solvent. Yeah, thelandscape is definitely change and similar to years
ago when the MP three came about, you know, this is just a

(36:44):
new version of that. You gotto evolve at some point. It is
scary times, but I think thecream always rises to the top. So
in a sense where AI and technologyand it's easier to make music nowadays.
Right here, you don't have tobe the best singer. You know,
everyone's autotuned, Like ninety nine percentof the music is autotuned. I do

(37:06):
it in my productions. You know, someone might hit them wrong note,
I just shift it and they're youknow, instead of doing one hundred takes
trying to nail it right. Sothere's a tool for me to say,
hey, instead of spending hours inthe studio, I could just hey,
maybe I could do it in tenminutes. Right So, I think right
now is as far as like makingmoney, it's more about licensing. So

(37:29):
there it comes to like IP owningyour IP. You hear artists talking about
owning their masters, you know,so that's how they're generating revenue, and
now they're less dependent on major recordlabels, and now they could put out
their own music, just like howyou put out your own podcasts. Right,
So it's just all about you know, just making quality content. I

(37:52):
look at music as just content thesedays, just put it out there and
see what people react to and makeadjustments accordingly. So it's definitely different times.
Wow. So you say it's justcontent, to me, that means
you're less concerned about the artistic piecesof it and you know, kind of
going towards something that's more you know, mechanically oriented. No, I mean

(38:14):
in the sense of how music isdistributed nowadays, where it's less about someone's
gonna go into a tower records.I know, I'm dating myself and buying
an album. Now it's more aboutOkay, the audio content is if a
million people are using my audio intheir reels, that's generating revenue as well.

(38:36):
So even for you know, socialmedia, that's another means of income
for musicians. So it's just adaptingto what's out there, you know,
using music for advertisements and like synclicensing and all that stuff. So it's
more about making quality content and Icould get it into other avenues, not
just okay, let's sell a millionrecords and we're rich. You know,

(39:00):
those days are done. I thinkthe misconception is if you have a million
views, that means you have amillion dollars. That doesn't exist. So
even for artists now that are goingviral, which is very scary because just
by happenstance, you could upload asong today, it goes viral overnight and
you never hear from that artist everagain. So that's the modern day want

(39:21):
to hit wonder right, Right,Because back in the day you would say,
okay, you have your A andR department and that would work with
an artist to develop them, getthe media train and all that stuff.
All that is mute, right,So it's kind of scary. It's saturated.
The music landscape is super saturated.So that's why I said it's all
about making quality content. I'm surethere's a million podcasts out there in the

(39:45):
world, so it's all the samein my opinion. Yeah, I mean
I was looking at some podcast musicwebsites. You think thousands and thousands of
songs by artists I've never heard ofbefore, right, and you can download
these and you don't have to worryabout copyright strikes, right. Content,
But that does create a new marketfor musicians. Sure, that's a new

(40:07):
opportunity for them to capitalize on theircreativity. Absolutely. I mean the getting
your music into these libraries as wecall it's all part of sync license,
and so for independent artists it kindof opens up more doors than saying,
all right, I have to havemy record on a radio station to generate

(40:27):
some revenue and things like that.There's a lot of different channels now.
Yep. What's interesting is it's almostthe reverse engineering of what it used to
be. So back in the day, the radio stations would crack the record
exactly and then you know, itwould go crazy. Where it's reverse now
where we kind of listen to seeif a record is getting traction in the
streets and the clubs, on socialmedia, on YouTube, and then it

(40:50):
backs into the radio play. Soit's the opposite. It's changed a lot.
Yeah, absolutely, we see timeand time again where if an artist
goes viral and that record is attachedto all these different reels and the record
label will come to that artist andsay, hey, we like your song.
It's less risk for them in asense because they're looking at how viral

(41:12):
that artist is and they're just givingout deals based on that. There's a
level of familiarity already there right whenit comes to so it's a little bit
easy to market because audiences are alreadyfamiliar. So if you want to be
a star, a star singer orstar rock band or whatever. How does
that happen now as opposed to maybethe way it happened in nineteen sixties,

(41:34):
you know it's rolling stones or whatever. It's uploading content to the Internet.
That's really it. In modern history. You could look at an artist like
Justin Bieber, just a kid witha guitar on the YouTube and he went
viral, and look at where Bieberis now, right, So now that's
almost like the standard is Okay,let me develop content, let me put

(41:55):
out myself, let me upload toall the social media platform forms. Let's
build a following. You know,it's all about the following. And now
you can look at, Okay,if I have a thousand followers, that's
gonna engage with me, that's goingto buy my content, my merchandise.
So now I could start selling merchand yeah, I may not sell out

(42:16):
an arena, but if I havea smaller venue and I have a thousand
people guaranteed that they're going to buya ticket to my show and buy my
merch I could make a living.Right, So it's all about targeting your
audience and the engagement. It's keyit's very entrepreneurial. Yeah, yeah,
I was going to say, thisis happening in art and all forms of

(42:37):
creative because if you have to havea following, if you're a writer,
if you're an artist, you needto be having a following before anybody ever
going to sign you up. Soitplies. So what's the best social media
channel for music? It's definitely YouTubebecause it's pretty much open, it's free,
So you got to think about otherregions of the world where certain platforms
aren't available in those countries. Soit's not just okay looking at the United

(43:01):
States, it's really looking at theentire world and see where your music is
resonating. Right, So now youhave all that data, So now when
I want to push a campaign,I could say, all right, this
part of the world is responding tothis music, so I'll just market there
and build it up. So wehave these tools available, which is really

(43:22):
cool that you never had before.You just put your music out there and
hope someone will engage with it.Now we could see that data in real
time. Would you advise a youngperson who's interested in becoming a musician to
spend more time studying computers or moretime practicing their instrument. Both, you

(43:43):
know, it's really both. You'regoing to get to a point where you're
like, I've reached mastery level,but now I have to be you know,
at least efficient with all these othertools like AI and marketing and things
of that nature. So which isinteresting because I know a lot of creative
who just hate anything that's mechanical orwork with them. I don't want to

(44:07):
I want to sing I I don'tcare about that. Yeah, and that
comes down to it not seeing everymusician or every artist has to be that
person. It's also having a solidteam around you. One of the questions
I had is there a way tobe able to have music trend more on
YouTube? Is there something that youcan do to punch it up? Yeah?

(44:28):
You could boost. I do boostall the time, especially on Instagram.
You could pick your audience which regionshashtag things, you know, people
who like this type of artist,and you could kind of push your ads
towards those people. So yeah,there's definitely strategies there. And that's one
thing I love about YouTube. Itgives you incredible analytics. Right absolutely,

(44:51):
It's Google, right, right,it's Google, So you can find out
so much about your audience and whoelse they're listening to. So yeah,
I mean, if if you havethat kind of brain where you like looking
at data, and if you don't, then you should get someone to do
it for you, like Paula orsomeone who owns a marketing agency who can
tell you this is what you gottado. Absolutely, Stephen Gober, he's

(45:13):
got Steam Worldwide Music works. Youhave new music that you're oh yeah,
sure right, and you have anew song a new artist, so yeah.
So most recently I'm working with anartist. His name is Don Jude,
based out of Florida in Miami,and we just came out with this
record. It's called Holiday, veryup tempo, it's danceable, and it's

(45:43):
making its debut here on and wealso have the video. So we released
a song and official music video,so you could go check that out on
YouTube. So don Ute d ON space y U t E. I
fully produced it, and that's therecord I'm servicing right now. Excellent.

(46:04):
How can people find you at SteamWorldwide? So ste a m Worldwide,
you know, ig on Twitter,that's the best way to get to me.
Any artist at don Yute and you'llsee us promoted in the song and
video heavily There awesome passage to profitthe Road to Entrepreneurship with Richard and Elizabeth
Gearhart and of course Kenya Gibson ourmedia Maven, and we will be right

(46:30):
back after these messages. Have youever met a single person in your life
that enjoys paying taxes? No,no one does. If you can't sleep
at night because you have a hugeproblem with the IRS, I've got some
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(46:52):
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(47:14):
right now, I mean right nowto learn more. Eight hundred nine one
seven eight five four six, eighthundred nine one seven eight five four six,
eight hundred nine one seven eight fivefour six. That's eight hundred nine
one seven eighty five forty six.It's Passage to Profit. Now it's time

(47:34):
for Noah's retrospective. Noah Fleischmann isour producer here at Passage to Profit,
and he never stops trying to makesense of the future by looking at the
pass A leading sociologist in a recentinterview made a claim that the source of
most of our problems in society todaygenerate from a lack of discipline. I
believe it. Look, when wewere small children, our parents told us

(47:55):
exactly what we were going to wear, exactly what we were going to eat,
an exactly when to go to bed. When I was a child,
the television stations did that too withTV programming. They told us exactly what
our choices were, exactly when wecould see them, and exactly what we
weren't going to be able to see. This whole world of on demand anything
anytime we want is blowing us intoa world of constant indecision. It's getting

(48:19):
out of control. I mean,if you're not somebody that can actually lie
on the bed and flip through fourteenhundred and ninety five channels in four minutes
at night, chances are you livingwith somebody that can. And even that's
a little crazy. We've got totreat television like the treat that it is.
Take it back to basics. Here'ssomething you can try for next week.
Make a list of all the showsyou might like to watch. Create
your own little TV guide. Thenwhen TV time rolls around, make a

(48:44):
choice, watch the one you reallywant to see and sacrifice the others.
And then, like in the goodold days, wait a year until you
can see the ones you missed allover again. If it's discipline, we
need do this for a year.Will be the best behaved society in the
world. Now more with Richard andElizabeth Passage to profit. And now it's
time for the question. So Elizabeth, what is our question for the show?

(49:07):
So, Paula, I am goingto ask you first, what do
you enjoy most at any given moment? If I am just at rest even
here, it's shocking, I haven'tstarted. I draw. It's an endless
thing, but it makes me veryjoyful. Excellent, Stephen Gobern, what
do you enjoy most? Enjoying life? And that would until spend time with

(49:27):
family and also created music that's justpart of me, that's just written in
my DNA. I agree, Kenya, what do you enjoy most and it
could be more than one thing.I have a very simple answer. It's
sleep. My answer, arn it. It's my favorite thing. My husband
will attest to it. Sleep ishealthy too. I feel like I do

(49:49):
a million things. So it's likewhen I have time and it's free time,
I'm all about my sleep. Idon't enjoy sleep. I have to
sleep, but I have such vividdreams all the time time that it is
hard, Like it's like I amliving another life. It's during my sleep.
But what I enjoy the most,Honestly, I've thought about this.

(50:09):
I really like hearing people's stories.Like I really enjoy talking to people and
hearing what their story is. Thatis like one of my favorite things to
do. And I realized that justrecently I start going out networking a lot
again and talking to a lot morepeople, and it's like, this is
really fun. That's good, andsleep is one thing that AI can't take

(50:30):
away from us right stop for awhile. Actually, what I was going
to say is, you know,you should feed those dreams into AI and
it'll be pretty interesting. You'll getsome good, good imagery and you'll get
some good stories, but you won'tbe able to copyright it. So yes,
I will get. The reason Iasked this is because I think it's
important as entrepreneurs, like I thinkthe reason we become entrepreneurs is to do

(50:53):
what we enjoy. You know,like most things in life, you start
out and you're very enthusiastic, andthen the rubber hits the road, Right,
you have to deal with the challengesas well as the pleasures of the
journey. But at least if youget to pick your own journey, you
get to pick your own challenges,right. And I think there's a lot
to be said for that. Ireally think there is. I did want

(51:15):
to bring back one thing with theAI. So I've been trying to do
these stories and trying to illustrate them. And I watched scary stories that were
done by AI, and the voiceis very monotone and the pictures are very
flat. But the biggest thing wasthe creativity wasn't there. I often get
asked, well, wait a minute, if AI is going to write everything,
why do we need writers and allof this. Once you start working

(51:37):
with AI on a regular basis,you can always recognize something created pure AI
that doesn't have that human element toit. It's flat. It's just what
you described, and that's the thing. People who are submitting material into journalists
and studios, you can see it. You know, when something's written with
AI, you need that person behindit to make it special. Paula Feeling

(51:58):
Global AI solution. Where can peoplereach you? Pull it? Natelfeelin dot
com. If it's a business sideof it, and if it's the art
side, paull it Paulafeelin dot com. And how do you spell feeling?
He is in Paula h g lA n Great Passage to Profit with Richard
and Elizabeth Gearhart. Before we go, I'd like to thank the Passage to
Profit team, Noah Fleischman, ourproducer, Alisha Morrissey, our program director.

(52:22):
Our podcast can be found tomorrow anywhereyou find your podcasts. Just look
for the Passage to Profit Show andyou can find us on Instagram and threads
at Passage to Profit Show and Twitter, or if you're even more up to
date, x at Passage to Profitand on our YouTube channel. Lise also
join us on our new Facebook groupsearch for Passage to Profit Show. Listener

(52:44):
Community, a new community space forour listeners and guests where you can post
questions that you would like answered onthe show and interact with a passage to
profit team. And remember, whilethe information on this program is believed to
be correct, never take a legalstep with checking with your legal professional first.
Gearhart Law is here for your patent, trademark and copyright needs. You

(53:05):
can find us at gearheartlaw dot comand contact us for free consultation. Take
care everybody, thanks for listening,and we'll be back next week. The
proceeding was a paid podcast. iHeartRadio'shosting of this podcast constitutes neither an endorsement

(53:25):
of the products offered or the ideasexpressed.