Alan Geik on the Jewish Mafia

Episode Transcript

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we got a great show for youtonight. When we come back, we'll
be looking at the Jewish mafia.They used to be a Jewish mafia.
Thank god, they'd own sixth anymore, but there was a period of time
in American history when they did.We'll speak to Alan Geek, author of

(01:55):
Uncle Charlie Kill Duck Schultz. It'sa family affair of his family being involved
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(07:12):
a Afro Cuban music program. Healso offered Glen Fish in a novel.
But his latest book is really hispassion. It is called Uncle Charlie Killed
Dud Schultz. The Jewish Mobi FamilyAffair. Alan, Thank you for joining
us. Thank you so much forhaving me. This is a pleasure.
So you were there. You hada lot of gangsters in your family,
some adopted gangsters. So let's look. I think your uncle, one of

(07:34):
your uncles was a gang It wasa low level gangster, correct, Well,
there were two. One was alow level gangster, which his son,
my dear cousin, got the bookstarted for me. But my uncle,
George Gordon, was one who camefrom the Lower East Side and wound
up as a major player at theDesert Inn and the Star Dust as part

(07:58):
of the Cleveland mob. I grewup with hearing all these mob stories from
relatives, right, It's just somethingthat you grew up with hearing some of.
In fact, we'll get to youruncle who killed Dud Schultz. But
you grew up hearing a lot ofthese stories. You grew up in the
Bronx, right. I think yourmother was a Greek junior, for your
father was from Ukraine, so maybea mixture of Yiddish and Greek, right,

(08:18):
that's right. And I went downto the Lower east Side almost every
Sunday at Delancey and Essex where mygrandmother lived, and my father would always
take me out to the bars onGrand Street and Delancey Street that the old
time gangsters, his friends from childhood, and some of our relations would pass

(08:41):
the stories around twenty and thirty yearslater. Now, your father wasn't wasn't
a mobster, but he had familymembers that were. Obviously. He was
the younger brother of George Gordon,who, as I mentioned, he started
on the Lower east Side and woundup working in managing the Cleveland and the

(09:03):
Ohio illegal gambling casinos through the thirties, forties fifties, and then they moved
to Las Vegas and Havana, andmy father, just by assimilation, knew
all of these people and profited byit. In the mid sixties when they
allowed him to have a trucking companyin the Garment center, which was rolled
by the mob, right totally completelycontrolled by the mob. And in the

(09:26):
book, I have some pictures ofmy father with one of his youthful friends,
Johnny dio Guardi, who was oneof the major mafia players in New
York in the fifties, and hewas in control of the Teamsters union from
the airport and was able to getmy father, And it took a lot
of work, even though these werehigh level Italian and Jewish mobsters, to

(09:50):
get him the right to a truckout of the garment center. Now,
let's look at the Jewish mob forall intent and purposes, does exists today,
but it did exist in the nineteenhundreds of nineteen twenties, thirties forties.
Of course, Murder Incorporated, whichwas also a Jewish mob operation,
didn't list along when they were amurderous group. So tell us, let's

(10:13):
just look first at overall the originof the Jewish Mob and what happened to
it. Well, as I wasresearching that a few things came up that
I was vaguely aware of. Oneis that the Jews and the Italians were
made for each other in many ways. That goes back to the Phoenicians and
the Romans all that far back.But they both arrived at the same time

(10:37):
in the late eighteen hundreds early nineteenhundreds, and they were oppressed in all
the big cities that were controlled mostlyby Irish Catholic police, firemen, the
infrastructure, and so they were bothin the same place. They turned towards
each other, and there were alot of similarities that I found just in

(10:58):
terms of the family background. Butthey were also right next door to each
other in Little Italy and the Jewishneighborhood that my parents came from. So
it was a collaboration that lasted allthrough the twentieth century, the Jews and
the Italians. And it's no bigsurprise that the Jews had organized crime because

(11:20):
in the Ukraine and Russia, Odessawas a big center of Jewish gangsterism,
and in other cities throughout America itwas as well. So people know,
people tend to think that they cameto America and became criminals, just saying,
and we'll talk about your great grandfather. Great great grandfather also was evolved

(11:41):
horse stealing, right, that's right, hill forth he was he was hung
and by the Cossacks. What happenedthere was a whole story that transfer.
The story came in bits and pieces, and luckily I was able to hear
it from a very good source.But my great grandfather was a baby and

(12:05):
his a young boy, and hisfather was, unknown to him, a
horse thief with aroma, a gypsy, and they were accused of stealing horses.
But both of them were killed byCossacks. And my grandfather, who
I didn't know, he came toAmerica years later and was exhibited all the

(12:26):
anti social behavior. He was adrunk. And also my whole family,
that whole generation of my father werealcoholics as well, which is one would
think unusual and Jewish families. Butmy grandfather was also one who fought the
Irish police on the Lower East Side, a losing proposition for sure, But

(12:48):
my father's older brother, my uncleGeorge, would often have to get him
out of speakeasies and sort of pullhim away from fights. What do you
say, fourth with police? Whatwas that all about? Fighting with the
Irish police? Well, he washe came over being traumatized watching his father
being hung. No doubt that hadsomething. He was I think eight years

(13:13):
old. I believe he was witnessedwhen he watched the feeling of his father
by the Cossacks correct, and hecame over and moved to the Lower East
Side, and throughout his life hewas always challenging people, fighting. His
children, my father and his olderbrother had to pull him out of as

(13:33):
I mentioned, speakeasies. But howhe got into fights with Irish police or
why? Who knows why people dothese kinds of things. I have to
imagine that being traumatized by his fatherbeing hung had something to do with it.
Let's talk about your uncle Charlie,who the book is named after,
first of all, who was DutchSchultz. Dutch Schultz was a Jewish gangster.

(13:54):
The real name was Arthur Fleigenheimer,and he was a mob on the
level of Lucky Luciano and Maya Lanski. But he had some attributes that they
were all organizing crime late twenties earlythirties, and he was one who really
wasn't part of it, and hereally ran into a lot of problems with

(14:18):
the others, and ultimately they decidedto have him assassinated when he was threatening
to kill Tom Dewey, who wasthe special prosecutor assigned by Governor Lehman at
that time to get dutch Schultz,and dutch Schultz asked the other mob leaders
if it was okay for him toassassinate him, and they said, no,

(14:39):
you can't go there, because thenwe're all done. And so they
wound up taking him out instead.And there was another side story to that
that the people in Cleveland and Ohiohad their eye on dutch Schultz's racetrack.
It was called Coney Island Racetrack inCincinnati, and that was their backyard,
and they were pressuring him for apiece of the action. And the day

(15:01):
before he was killed, he hada meeting with the Cleveland Syndicate, which
I heard about throughout my life,and they were trying to just get a
piece of the action. But howeverit worked out. They did assassinate him
in nineteen thirty five. October nineteenthirty five, I believe it was your
uncle Charlie. Who was your uncleCharlie? How did he end up being

(15:22):
part of the assassination? Uncle?There was a gang of Jews and Italians
on the Lower East Side. JohnnyDio, Guardi, my uncle, George,
Uncle Charlie, Workman, Sammy cassAll these people became well known characters
and organized crime but uncle Charlie wasreally close to my parents before he while

(15:45):
he was in Murder Incorporated. Andwhen he got into jail, he was
betrayed by Abrellis who wound up gettingthrown out of a window and he went
to jail for twenty three years.And throughout those twenty three years, my
father was one of the civilians bringingmoney to Charlie's family, which was being

(16:07):
supported by the organized crime that wastheir form of social security at the time.
And when he got out of jail, my brother was a detective and
Charlie was somehow he was afraid ofprole violations, and he knew that he
was a marked man in some ways, because getting him back in jail would
be a feather in the cap ofsome prosecutor. So my brother was able

(16:30):
to chill him out by saying,look, if you have trouble with the
parole board, we can talk tothem because we're on the same we're detectively.
Brother was helping relatives who were mobstersand yes, and my brother wound
up being in the Prince of theCity, which was a big scandal.

(16:51):
In the early and mid seventies,there were seventy five so called elite detectives.
My brother was one of them.Fifty of them got arrested for shaking
down big drug dealers in the city, and my brother was, as I
just mentioned, one of them,but he was always he was closer to

(17:11):
them in some ways, them beingthe old mob guys and the ones who
were still practicing their trade, becausethey saw him as one of them.
They had an interest in what Iwas doing too. But my brother was
able to pry out some more detailthan I did. Uncle Charlie tell us

(17:32):
about him, What was his role, who did he work for? He
was a little older than than myuncle George and Charlie became a murder incorporated
assassin and he was supposedly had avery He was very active in that role.

(17:52):
Then, as I mentioned, hegot arrested for that and went to
jail. But he had a reputationbefore he went to jail of being well
of the more ruthless active murder incorporatedhitman. When he got out of jail
was when I met him, becausehe was he was in jail for a
long person I think twenty seventy.He was in the New Jersey prison system
for twenty three years. Wow.So he met him before you met him

(18:15):
after he got out of person.I met him after when he got out.
It was nineteen sixty four. Iwas twenty two years old and my
sister my brother, was four yearsolder than me, and it was a
big thrill because we always heard abouthim. And I remember saying to myself,
what do I ask him? DoI because the Kennedy assassination had just

(18:36):
happened months before that in November sixtythree, And I said, do I
ask him what his professional opinion isof it? That we had some funny
comments about it. But when wemet him, he turned out just to
be like all the older men inmy neighborhood, in the Bronx who lived
in the building, who you wouldcall by their surname, mister so and

(18:57):
so, mister Schwartz, mister andthere was mister workman. And immediately he
referred to us as his nephews.And because he had that kind of camaraderie
with our family, with my parents, my brother, and throughout the rest
of his life, which was aboutfifteen more years, he was looking after

(19:21):
me in his way. He reallycouldn't help me in lots of ways,
but I did have a few interestinginteractions with him, with him trying to
get me a job in the stagehens union, and that was a funny
incident that I mentioned in the book. Was successful in that. No,

(19:41):
actually, I'll tell very briefly.The story was. I saw him one
time. He said, what areyou doing right now? I said,
I'm trying to get in the Cameraman'sUnion. It was tough to get in.
He said, let's go up tothe coliseum because that's where he got
his first job when he got outof jail. I didn't know that.
I didn't recall, but we wentto see the leader of the union,

(20:03):
who was who himself got indicted yearslater, and we went. My father
went and Charlie said, this ismy nephew Allan. If you get him
into the stage hands, maybe wecan get him into the Cameraman's Union,
which is in the umbrella of AyazziUnion. And the guy said to him,
look, Charlie, when you gotout of jail, you had a
big rep and all these guys onlyworked three days a week, and we

(20:26):
had a sixty eight foot boat stolenlast week. The FBI is all over
us, and these guys are goingto really not like him coming in here,
to which I said, hey,I could take care of myself.
And you could hear dead silence fromthe other three guys, and because it
was almost like they saw my headin a toilet bowl or something. And

(20:48):
when we left, Charlie slapped meon my thigh in the cab going back
to my father's company, and hesaid to me, and I always remember
this, he said, I'm reallysorry I couldn't help you. Alan.
In the old days before I wentto jail, if I wanted anything from
a union official, all I hadto do was open his window and say,
it's a long way down. Andthat was it. And I put

(21:11):
that last line. And I hadto truncate that story for the book,
though, but that was the fullstory of it, and I always remembered.
I always laughed when I thought ofit. Alan Geik is our guest,
a film and digitaledter wide World Warof Sports and poweroun Pictures. His
new book is called Uncle Charlie KilledDutch Shuls the Jewish Mob A Family Affair.

(21:33):
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nineteen eighty one. And now here'syour host. Alan Gaik is our guest,

(29:55):
the film and digital editor wide WorldWar the Sports and Paramount Pictures.
His new the new book is calledUncle Charlie Killed Dutch Schulz. The Jewish
mob, a family affair? Whatmade you decide to write this book all
of a sudden. To be honest, I never thought when those people were
alive, or even after that,I would ever write a book about them.

(30:17):
But then maybe five years ago,a cousin of mine called me up
one day and he was ecstatic andhe said, go to this website.
It was some mob website. AndI went to it and there was a
picture of a police lineup in thethirties. I said, yes, so
what He said, that's my fatheron the right and that was the low
And I said, oh, okay. He says, look, it's my

(30:37):
father. His father was a lowlevel criminal who was always getting in trouble
and the other guys had to sortof get him out of trouble. So
he said, it's not Uncle George, it's not Charlie, it's not any
of these people. It's my father. So we laughed about it. A
few weeks later, I went tomy sister's house in Boston. She's an
attorney, and she had all thephotographs, family potographs, of which I

(31:00):
had none, and there were allthese people at my bar Mitzvah, at
bar Mitzvah's and she also had abook called Mafia, which had one page
printouts on all of the characters inthe mad and there were all these people
in it. So I said,I got to write this story because the
juxtaposition of the FBI page with thepicture of them at my bombits was just

(31:22):
too much to let pass by forhistory. Did you ever visit your home
or your parents home? They nevervisited. We did get a lot of
summonses or what I later were subpoenas, subpoenas or bill collectors coming for things
that my father might have signed forover the years. I remember that,

(31:45):
but we were under strict rules notto talk about any of them because there
was just no upside to it.So throughout my childhood I knew they existed,
but I never found a need orreason. Also they my father later
said, we just didn't want anybodyto know when Uncle George was in town
because just for security reasons. Letthem deal with how they dealt with taking

(32:10):
care of their own security. Nowyou mentioned bar Mitsu's. Did you have
a Jewish home, do you havea Jewish name? What was your Jewish
life like growing up? Well,there was a bit of a conflict because,
as I mentioned, My mother wasa Roman yo Chew. She spoke
Greek with her mother and her sisters, especially when there were secrets that we

(32:30):
shouldn't hear, and so their lifestylestrictly was very Sephardic, even though they
didn't speak Spanish or Ladino. Ispoke Spanish as I grew up. But
my father was not a practicing Jew. But like all the others, they

(32:51):
would fight the anti Semets in aminute. They didn't need to go to
the temple to do that. Andthey were very much in my father.
As I wrote in the book,he was involved in some of the fighting
with the Nazis before World War Two. So let's talk about because I believe
in the nineteen thirties and forties inUpper Manhattan you you had first the had
anti Semitch around the country at HenryFord whipping up the crowd. Your father

(33:15):
Kauflin, you had a lot ofanti Semitism. But from what I read,
and I did a program about this, there was a Jewish judge who
enlisted the Jewish mob to break headsof these Nazi goons on the Upper East
Side and elsewhere around the country.Yeah, his name was Judge Perlman,
and he and a rabbi, awell known rabbi. They went to Maya

(33:37):
Lanski, as the story goes,and they said, we need your help.
We can't have these people running Jewsoff the streets. We have to
fight them back, but you justcan't kill them, that was the only
thing. And Maya Lansky said,but we don't want bad press from this,
and they said no, and we'llpay you when he said, we
don't want money for this. Sothey went after the Nazis, who were

(33:58):
victims in some way that were victimsof their own stereotypes, because here they
were portraying Jews as the guys behindthe scenes who were manipulating, you know,
that whole stereotype of us as beingbankers and whipping up crowds. But
here they were on the street andthey were beating the asses of the Nazis,

(34:21):
who just couldn't deal with that becauseit was such an affront to their
propaganda. And some of these peoplein my family were very prominent in doing
that. And after the Wharf,I may say one of the immediately after
the war, David Bengurion, cameto New York to get money for the
fight that was coming in Palestine.He wanted to get two million Jews from

(34:47):
Europe to immigrate to Palestine. Hedidn't know how many were killed at that
time, how many were lost heretalking about talking about July nineteen forty,
two months after the war in Europewas over, and the Haganah had been
involved with the American forces, inAmerican intelligence in Italy as the Allied forces

(35:14):
worked their way up and they setup bases on the Adriatic coast of Italy,
secret bases from which all of thesetraumatized Holocaust survivors were going to be
shipped back under the nose of theBritish who had their blockade because they wanted
to get because they supported the Arabs. Really, but Lucky Luciano had been

(35:37):
deported to Italy and he was totallyin support of the Israeli efforts to get
the Haganah efforts. And I mightsay my late father in law was one
of the first American pilots recruited bythe Haganah to go to Italy to those
bases and bring the weaponry that cameoff the docks of New York City under

(36:02):
because the docks were controlled by Jewsand Italian mobsters and the Irish dock workers
hated the British anyway, so theywere all willing to get the weaponry under
the eyes of the US government toPalestine with lu Lenard. You mentioned the
first fighter pilot in Israeli Air Force. What were some of the other ways

(36:25):
that the Jewish mobsters, together withthe Italian mobsters, helped the Hugganah help
the state of Israel in its earlydays. Well, it was a huge
fundraising effort. But when David Bengorionmet with a Jewish businessmen on that faithful
day in July nineteen forty five,they were saying, well, how do
we know you guys will fight?We never fought before? Do we need

(36:49):
to fight? They all agreed,under the penalty of severe law, that
they were going to violate the socalled Neutrality Act, but they also knew
that the only way they could workwould be with the mob And interestingly enough,
the man who was just elected mayorof New York City in nineteen forty
five was Mayor O'Dwyer, who wasa Irish born born in Ireland, a

(37:15):
laborer policeman, and he became theda who broke up Murder Incorporated four years
earlier. But now he was workingwith them. He was working not with
Murder Incorporated, but with the Italianand Jewish mobsters and all the Irish dock
workers to get the weaponry and fundsthrough secretive banks in Europe, in Italy

(37:36):
particularly, and in Italy itself.The Italians, who I have to say,
were the bravest during World War Two. They were the ones who defended
the Jews and their community. Bestof all, the Jewish rate of survival
in Italy was much higher than itwas in Holland and France. And true,
the majority of Jews survived Italy,and they were helped by the local

(37:57):
population. Yes, and we alwaysuse that expression stand up guy, you
know, like someone's stand up guy. Imagine a family, an Italian family,
when men, women and children standingup to the Gestapo that was in
saying we're not giving up the Jews. And I made a note in my
book, a footnote that the Gestapochief in Rome was so perturbed by this

(38:20):
he sent a note back to hissuperiors in Berlin saying, the Italians aren't
working with us, They're going outof their way to protect the Jews.
So I always my mother was intears over that because on one hand,
she said, when it came totalking about Jewish gangsters and their children,

(38:43):
she said, Jews don't make gangstersout of their children. And I always
weren't gangsters, only that early generation, more generations, and their intent was
to send the kids to Yale orwherever to send my generation. But yet
on the other hand, in termsof Italians, she loved them because of

(39:05):
their bravery during the war and theirsupport of the Israeli effort and Palestine after
the war. Now you have achampion book called The War of the Jews,
where you're right about the Italians andJews that were together, but when
they needed to eliminate if you wereJewish, you need to eliminate the Jew
you hired the Italians. The Italiansused the Jews to kill the Italians,
right that the world Well, yeah, well it was. But when you

(39:29):
think about it, one of thethings that I learned from my research,
and also I knew the bigger pictureas younger, younger man, was that
the Italians and Jews were very politicallyastute. Maya Lanski and Lucky Luciano.
They knew that they basically had controlover two different ethnic groups, and they

(39:53):
used them to the best. Theyreally use them wisely. When they went
after one of the Italian old timeas they called the Mustachio Piez, they
went up as a ruse into hisoffice as government tax agents. But they
wanted to make sure that they wouldn'trecognize any of these tax agents, so

(40:15):
they just used Jewish hit men andDutch Schultz and Waxy Gordon was older than
Maya Lanski and he never accepted Maya'srule. They had to take him out,
but they took him out by taxavision, and the Italians were deeply involved
in that as well. But thatwas the war of the Jews. Basically

(40:35):
it was against Dutch Schultz and WaxyGordon. Piece they weren't they didn't see
the big picture of this being anextraordinary business that would become the biggest cash
flow industry in America in the twentiethcentury. Now, your brother was a
policeman. But you're also right aboutthe fact that there's some CIA involvement with
Castro. Elaborate because I know youalso had some cashrow connection because you used

(40:59):
to be host the show called CubanaLate Night Sessions. Yes, well that
was my It wasn't that Art andgrowing up in New York for people to
be attaching to other people's culture atall. People find that art now,
but back then, you'd walk downthe street on Fourteenth Street, you'd hear
jazz, you'd hear Afro Cuban music, you'd hear Klesmer just walking down the

(41:24):
street, and people would somehow getattached to other people's music and culture.
But my brother was a protege ofa chief of detectives in Midtown, Manattan,
who incidentally was my uncle George's bodyguardwhen he went around bringing money,
and I knew him when I wasmuch younger. He was the classic Irish

(41:45):
German upper echelon policeman, the wayhe dressed and the way he acted.
But when my uncle George came totown, Author was there, and Author
put my brother on the fast trackfrom trollman to elite detective. He did
it in a couple of years.Author was his rabbi, as they called

(42:06):
them, pe n somebody who's protectorof the rabbi. I think, rabbi.
It could be Irish, you couldbe black, you could be Puerto
Rican. You had a rabbi thateverybody used that word at the time,
But there was a CIA scientist supposedlyjumped out of a thirteen story building and
the man who the CIA sent toinvestigate it to talk to the detectives.

(42:30):
This was ten years before my brotherwas on the force, was James McCord,
who later became a gate burglar.James McCord was, and this is
on record, he talked to thetwo detectives and basically said, let's just
call it a suicide, which theydid. Their boss was the guy who
was going to be my brother's bossten years later. But James McCord that

(42:52):
the CIA was involved in all thebig cities because they had what the big
cities couldn't afford, equipment, advancedequipment. They were all part of the
World War two Old Boys network ofYale graduates who became intelligence agents. And
so the CIA and my brother inthe sixties, they with author who was

(43:16):
my brother's boss, would give themprojects, will put them, assign them,
assign them to different projects, likefollowing a UN diplomat around because the
CIA couldn't do it. It wasagainst the law for the CIA to our
connection with Castro. They try toassassinate Castro there definitely when the mob was

(43:40):
thrown out when Castro took over Cuba. The CIA wanted to kill Castro.
They had one or two very failedattempts, so they turned to the Mob,
thinking the Mob would want to getback into Cuba, and so they
turned to the Mob. And AccordI remember at that time because I was
already in college and I was ableto understand these that the Mob themselves they

(44:07):
didn't have those contacts anymore in Cuba, but they wanted to see what they
could get out of the CIA,because they saw the CIA as all these
college guys who were part of adifferent world, and here they were talking
to guys who were in the Mobfor thirty and forty years. So Sam
g and Conna was one of themwho was very close to my uncle George,

(44:29):
and I always remembered back then itwas sort of like his attitude was
he didn't know anyone in Cuba.My uncle George, all his contacts were
gone. They got out with themwith their money, which was unique.
The rest, including Maya Lanski,lost a lot of money in Cuba,
but they were just playing the CIA. None of them were really going to

(44:51):
have people go into Cuba and tryand kill Caastro. That was the impression
I got, Alan Guich, Thankyou for being with us. May I
recommend your book Uncle Charlie killed DutchSchultz the Jewish Marvick family affair. If
they make this into a movie,who would you like to them? Who
would like to play Alan Gaik?Who would you recommend? I don't know
the too many of the actors,but I do have to tell you one

(45:15):
quick thing, if I may.When they did the movie Prints of the
City, which my brother was inthe book, he was the first bad
cop mentioned in the book. Whenthey did the movie, they didn't use
real names, but he said,I hope Kirk Douglas plays my role.
Well, I'll have to think aboutthat. But thanks for the good thoughts

(45:36):
about a movie being made about it. Thank you for joining us. Thanks
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