Guest: Prof. Motti Inbari, on Ruth Blau, a Catholic Gestapo agent & bar dancer

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
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talk Line with Zev Branderu on YouTube. On our show today, we'll be
speaking to Professor muttiambarried by a fascinatingbook. He's in the process of writing
about a Roman Catholic Gestapo agent whoactually ended up marrying a anti zion this
rabbi and she was involved in kidnappingof acastic boy, the Yeslo Schumacher affair.
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Hello, We're call three one one. You're listening to talk Line with Zev
Brenner, America's premier Jewish broadcast onthe year since nineteen eighty one. And
now here's your host. Welcome backto the program, Moms ze Brenner.
We're going to look at the fascinatingstory about a Catholic Gustapo agent who spied
on Nazis, married an anti Zionistround boy, helped kidnap Yuslo Schumacher.

(05:26):
And the very interesting story is asubject of a couple of books that are
coming out. But our guest tonightis Professor Mutti Embari, Professor of Jewish
Studies at the University of South Carolinaat Penbroke, author of the book on
Ruth Bloud that's coming out in alittle while. Thank you for being part
of our show tonight. Thank youfor inviting me. Thank you very much.
Thank you. I know you writeand you lecture and you were expert

(05:49):
on the sack minitary carta. Tellus about your fascination with Ruth Black because
she's a very colorful woman. We'regoing to get to her in just a
moment. Well, you too,said yourself, such an interesting person.
How can you not be fascinated byher? Well, absolutely, tell us
about Ruth Blau. That's her name, But she wasn't born Ruth Blouse.

(06:12):
She was born a Catholic and onlychild, and she had a very colorful
history, including a bar girl inParis. But we're going to get all
that, so let's look at herher interesting life. Yeah. Well,
she was born in France in nineteentwenty as Madelene Lucette Ferre. She was
born to Catholic parents and she grewup in Paris, a wonderful location,

(06:32):
one of the best spots in Parisand grew up in the church and received
Catholic education. And during World WarTwo, she was eighteen years old,
she got married. She moved tosouthern France. Many people left Paris back
back during the war and moved tosouthern France. And as a young woman,

(06:56):
she didn't she didn't get along withher husband. She divorced, and
she had a son, a child, and the world came and also refugees
and also other things that came withthat. And I've been studying her with
biography, and I found that shehelped save one Jewish woman from a concentration

(07:17):
camp in Niece. She went witha false said document to the concentration camp
and pulled that woman out of thatconcentration camp and said to the Nazis,
you had a mistake, this isa wrong person. You got the wrong
person. She pulled her out,she took her with her to her village

(07:39):
in the border with friends in Spain. And later on after that, this
was before after that, she joinedthe French Resistance officially, got drafted to
the French Resistance. And this iswhere you started saying the Gestapo and all
those things. So this is whereit became. So she was recruited to

(08:03):
the French Resistance to a to agroup of resistance that was located in southern
France, and the purpose of thisresistance was to a collect information about Nazi
and Nazi activities in southern France,and this information was sent to a Britain

(08:24):
in order to prepare for D Day, as the Nazis themselves were expecting that
there will be an invasion of ofof the British powers, British American what
later will become be called D Days, so they were strengthening their forces in

(08:45):
southern France expecting the invasion. AndMadeleine lu Said was recruited to the French
resistance to a to spy on theNazi activities and her specific purpose was to
learn more about the Gestapo, thesecret services that were that were used by

(09:09):
the Nazis. So she was ableto penetrate, to gain their trust,
to get accepted into the Gestapo asa double agent, and was able to
send information about Nazi activities to toyou know, to the resistance. Well,

(09:30):
she must have been very good ifshe was eight to recruited, but
how did she end up being aspy? What was how did they know
that she would work out, well, did she volunteer? How did that
process play out? Yeah, soat that time, the Gestapo was very
effective. The Gestapo was able tocrash the resistance, the French resistance very

(09:52):
strongly at that time. So theyhad to recruit more and more and more
people all the time because the Naziwere able to capture everyone. And so
this is this is how you knowthe process went. How did she do
that? She was a very charmingwoman, And this is something that I've

(10:15):
learned from her biography and I've studiedher life from the moment she was born
to the moment she died. Peopleshe was very talented, she was very
smart, and she was she hada certain charm and many people were captivated
by her. And she was verybeautiful. Also, something that always is
always helpful, I always helpful,and I guess I helped her in her

(10:37):
spying thing. So perhaps she endedup in she also ended up in jail,
correct, yea, So she sistime in jail multiple times in her
life. So the first time wasafter the French after the Nazis were defeated.
So every person, as every womanthat collaborated with the Nazis or even
had an a fail with the NaziFrench woman and an affair with the Nazi

(11:01):
with a German soldier. They wereall brought to interrogations and the way in
which they were treated was that theywould chase their hair and they will parade
them on the streets of all thecities in France to shame them and to
people would spit on them and kickthem. And so she was brought to

(11:24):
interrogations. They didn't know that shewas a secret agent. She didn't know
that there was she was a doubleagent. And after five days of interrogation
she was set free. They didn'ttouch her, and after the war ended,
she came. She moved back toParis with her family, with her
son and a mother, and shejoined the French secret service and she was

(11:48):
sent to a mission in Morocco,to a spying mission in Morocco, again
to spy against you know, afterthe world there was still a people were
Fascist and Nazis all over, youknow, all over places. And there
was a certain individual who was anItalian Fascist that was living in Morocco and

(12:11):
he was starting to steer up somethingand they were trying to, you know,
to to have a better grip ofwhat is what he's doing and what's
planning. So they sent her andthey sent her to spy on him,
and she was able to become acquaintedwith him. And it was interesting because
the Moroccan secret Service was also spyingon him, and so when they saw

(12:37):
them together, they arrested her.They arrested her. And this is how
I know all these things, becausethey wrote reports about it, and so
it's all documented and and so thisis how so she was she was She
joined the Moroccan the French secret Service, and she she went on a mission
after the war to continue spying dutyis on x fascist x Nazis in North

(13:03):
Africa. That assignment was done andthen she moved back. She came back
to France and as far as Iknow, this is where her secret spying,
you know, jobs ended. Shestarted the process of education. She
went to study religion, religious studiesand in the Sorbonne, which is the

(13:28):
prestigious university in France, and thisis where she started her interest in learning
about other religions. She went througha process of searching multiple religions and multiple
prospects, and eventually she ended upin Judaism and at the same time she

(13:52):
had the business. So he askedme about the jail. The jail period,
she had a business and she wasn'tpaying her time AXSS. She was
importing and selling stuff. She wasbuying materials from from North Africa and selling
them in France, and she wasn'tpaying your taxes and the authorities, the

(14:13):
French authorities caught her and put herfor two months in jail for not paying
your taxes. Wow, she didingon the taxes, so she said,
coming down. Now, you alsomentioned she was also a bar girl too,
wasn't she. I didn't say that. No other people say that.
I've read other other articles about her. So have you found it to be

(14:33):
the case? I do it byelimination. I don't think she was a
bar girl because because the story thatshe was a bar girl in Paris,
she wasn't living in Paris. Shewas living in Silent France. And I
found the French documents, you know, the secret service documents. The town
now they declassified. They declassified allthe documents from World War two. So

(14:56):
I went to France and I wasable to read all the documents. It's
about her past. They never mentionedthat she was a bar girl. And
they wrote a lot of things overthere. So I don't think there was
shy or there were So I justdon't think she was about girl. This
is not true. So I hadthat end up because I kept hearing over
the years that she was she wasin show business of the bar girl.

(15:18):
You kept hearing different things. Yes, there has been some substance to those
rumors. I'm just curious. Yeah, if you know opinion, how that
came about was the head of theMossade. We still didn't talk about the
affair. This is where she camefirst, right, the first path with

(15:39):
the Mossad, and there were otherpaths with the Mossades. This is not
the only path. But I thinkit kind of spread these rumors about her
past and there was a reason forthat. The way in which I understand
it, the way I figured outin my research about her relationship with the
Mossad that she probably he did walkwith the Mossad, especially in the later

(16:03):
years, and she collaborated with theMossad doing some very interesting, in some
very dangerous assignments for the Mossad.But he had to trust her reputation so
that people won't suspect that they're collaboratingthat they are walking together. So he
spread those rumors that she was aprostitute and bolt and you know all those

(16:26):
things. And I think this isthe reason why he spread those rumors.
But we'll get to that. Wegot our fascinating guests. As you're heard,
he's an expert on Nure Carter,He's an expert on Surper. He's
writing a book about Ruth ben David, who was born as a Catholic.
She was a Gestapo agent. Sheworked for the Mossade that she also worked

(16:49):
for French secret service. And shehad up marrying the leader of Nure Carter
of amarn Blau, and she kidnappedYoussel. Schumacher will talk about that as
well. Our guest is Professor Muttimbari, Professor of Jewish Study, University of
South Carolina at Pembroke. Did youknow that my friends at Maxi can get
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and much more. Take advantage ofthis once in a lifetime sale before it's
too late. They're closing their doorsforever on July thirtieth, twenty twenty three.
This is the sale that you've beenwaiting for their loss. Is your

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game. Get fifty percent below retailprices on everything in stock. Don't wait.
Visit North Carolina Furniture at one thirtynine Sunrise Highway, Amitydale, or
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seven seven seven. You're listening toTalk Line with Zev Brenner, America's premier

(20:55):
Jewish broadcast on the air since nineteeneighty one. Now your host, back
to the program. Mom, isthat Brenna. We're looking at the very
interesting story of Ruth Blau. Shewas infiltrated the Gestapo, work for French
intelligence, work for the most Sad, and she also married the anti Zionist
Notari cart To leader rob amrum Blau, and she was involved. She actually

(21:21):
helped kidnap the also Schumacher, whichkept the most sad and kept a lot
of people going for a while.Our guests the professor Mutti Enbar, he's
professor Jewish till University of North Carolinaat the Pembroke and we appreciate being with
us. His book is coming outsoon when's the book on Ruth Blau coming
out by the way into doing thissummer so this sometime, there's still some

(21:45):
time, but we're just giving everybodya preview of what to what to expect.
And that's uh, you know here, okay. So she tells us
that she was fascinated with Judy's gonnatell us more about that. How did
that come about? She was justlooking for spiritual, you know, excitement,
and she was unhappy with her Christianfaith and she started studying in a

(22:08):
college setting and started exploring. Shestarted she went to Seven Day Advantages,
she studied the Greek mythology, andthen she got focused on the Bible.
She got really focused on the Bible. But she didn't know any Jew,
you know, there was no Jewsin her surrounding. So at that point

(22:30):
she met an Israeli that was studyingin France in the Sorbonne and as I
said, she was a beautiful woman. Everybody wanted to marry her. She
had a multiple people trying to marryher, and he fell in love with
her, and he said, andyou need to convert, and so she
she she went to this process ofconversion in order to get married Eventually,

(22:55):
this marriage did not move forward.They broke up, but she continued her
conversion and she converted in a Reformsynegogue in Paris in I think nineteen forty
nine. After that she met anOrthodox rabbi who wanted to marry her,
and they said, you know yourphone converted, it won't walk. You

(23:18):
need to convert again. So sheconverted an Orthodox conversion in Paris in order
to get married with him. Andthey already got engaged and they planned to
move to Israel, and everything wasalready set, and eventually broke the engagement
and she was heartbroken and went backto France. In nineteen sixty she decided

(23:40):
to do aliyah. After her son, her son from her first marriage,
was already eighteen years old. Hedecided to move to Israel and he joined
the IDF and she made Aliyah.And when she came to Israel, I
should have mentioned that in France,while she was doing the Orthodox conversion,
she came across read by Mises,Elijah Mises, who was a too wake

(24:10):
out that kind of person, andhe helped her with her conversion, and
so he moved to Israel and hejoined to wake out a community in Masham
and when she came to Israel,when she moved, she did Aliyah Mises
code. And this is where thestory begins. So for the audience who

(24:33):
doesn't remember exactly what the story isabout, there was a family that was
able to get out of the SovietUnion and a three generation a grandfather and
a grandmother, children and grandchildren.And the grandfather was a brass le hacid
that was persecuted in the Soviet Unionand he was sent to Siberia and he

(24:57):
lost his eye and he his toesand he was able, you know,
eventually to get out and settled inwith the braslef Hasidim in nasha Rim.
And his daughter had two children,and she gave the son yosely to the
grandfather to take care of him.And while they were settling down, and

(25:21):
eventually she signed up the boy toa religious Zionist school. The boy was
seven years old, and the grandfatheropposed the schooling, and the grandfather kidnapped
the boy so that he won't besent to the Zionist school. Yeah,

(25:41):
because they the grandfather was a brassidyou know, back then, the Brassis
were very anti Israeli. And thedaughter signed up her son to a religious
Zionist school instead of a head yeshivain Jerusalem, and so he kidnapped the
boy and after a while they weretrying to hide yourself in all kinds of

(26:04):
places, the police was after them. They basically they gave the boy to
the reata and said take the boyoutside of Israel. So Ntokata didn't know
how to do that. But thenMises remembered the French convert and he called
her in. She just made aliyah, She just made aliyah, and he

(26:26):
called her in and he asked herto smuggle the boy outside of Israel,
and she came up with a plan. She basically changed his identity from a
boy to a girl. He foldeddocuments on her Belgian passport that she had
a son instead of a boy,and she was able to take him outside

(26:48):
of Israel. So first she broughtthe boy to a yeshiva in Switzerland and
the boy stayed there for a yearuntil he was exposed. One of the
teachers the eshiva identified that this isYosel, and then they had to move
into a different location. He wentto a yeshiva in France for eight months.

(27:11):
Again, he was exposed after eightmonths, and then they moved him
to Brooklyn, New York, andshe coordinated all the sectivity was done by
her. Yes, everything she was, She's done. So after two and
a half years in Israel, theycouldn't find the boy. Then going on
asked the Mossad to find the boy. So the Mossad to their investigations,

(27:33):
were able to link her to thekidnapping of the boy, and they basically
they trapped her in Paris. Theykidnapped her and put her under interrogation for
two weeks. After two weeks,basically what happened in Israel that they also
brought her son for interrogation, andthe son broke in his interrogation and gave

(27:56):
the Mossad the whole story what happened. And then she and then the Mossad
had her in Paris and they toldher that her son confessed, and so
she confessed and gave the location ofthe boy. It was on Penn Street,
one twenty six Pence Street in Brooklyn, New York, New York,

(28:18):
in the Supper area exactly. Andso at what point did she marry her
by amram Blau, the leader ofCarter Okay, so she received from the
Mossade promise that she will not beprosecuted, not her, not her son,
and not anyone else that was involvedin the kidnapping. And why do

(28:38):
they make that promise to her?So for her to give her the to
give the address to confess. Ifyou gave the address, then she wouldn't
be prosecuted. Yes, she madea deal. And then you have to
give the context is that there wastremendous pressure on Israel to find it was
a story that grepted Israel. Listthe Sabe was involved, the Luba was

(29:00):
involved, the Kievsky, from thefrom from the Ponivicheshiva was involved. They
were great people were involved if theyissue wanted to go and prosecute everyone and
exploit traditions and all that stuff.Let me let me start from when you
say they was involved, what doesthat mean involved? They tell us some

(29:25):
I just the first time hearing aboutthe Lubaba or so to what was their
environment? According to what you havefound, yes, so the lub so
the brass Hussid had two sons,and these two sons were bad Hussid.

(29:45):
They were not bad and they werethe first ones who kidnapped yoursel and they
were in contact with the lub aboutall those things. But eventually they decided
to transfer him to the Satmar Rebewas involved in hiding Yossel in New York

(30:07):
and coordinated the hiding of Yossel Schumacher. He knew about it. He knew.
He came to him between knowing aboutit being involved with it. So
was he involved? He just knowabout it. So she came to him
and she needed Ruth came to theSatmar Rebbe. Yes, Ruth came to

(30:29):
the Sabe and there is a document, there is a testimony about there.
So how did the Mossad connected withwith the kidnapping? It was because Satmar
woman that went to meet the Rebbehad to wait for him a few hours
and because he was he had anunplanned meeting with Ruth for three hours,

(30:55):
and she was talking with people aboutyou know, she can't understand and how
come the rebel was not seeing hisyou know, visitors and putting all of
them on hold. And then whenthey're waiting for three hours, and then
who is coming out of his roomand and she was talking about it,
and the Mossad agent had this conversation, and she was talking about it with

(31:21):
other people, you know, andthe Mossad had the people inside the SAtma,
and they had to think that theMossad infiltrated the software community with that
had to do with the Schumar caseor in general, the infiltrated the software
community for the Yosilic case. Forthe Yossilic case, they suspected that there
was a software connection to the kidthat yes, it was clearly it was

(31:41):
the anti Zionist they think. Theythought it was either the sat All rick
Hart and Softoma are not the samethere, yes, the arts with one
another, yes, but it wasthey So they tried to think who are
the suspects who can be involved inthat? And they were trying to narrow
it down. And when they heardthis story that wood Ben David was coming

(32:06):
out of the SAtma Rebbe from anunplanned meeting for they took for three hours.
They connected the dots, you know, it was about Yosel. This
is where they connected the dots andthis is how it was all connected.
They were hiding yoursel in the Satmarfamily alta fega title by him. It
was connected with that matching yosely withthis family, the Gurtner family. So

(32:31):
if they were taken for investigations,and if the police would have come,
maybe a lot of Jews would comeout of this, but Israel decided not
to prosecute it, to leave italone. Now you mentioned little Barbarebe,
so how was he connected to thesolar corner? So, as I said,
at the first, at the firststages of the kidnapping, those who

(32:53):
kidnapped Yossely were bad Hasidi and theywere high in Yosele, in Habbad Yeshiva
in Israeli Lord, but the Rebbieapproved them. That the hiding of the
of the of Yoselahabad Shiva. Sonobody ever investigated the Rebbe about about those

(33:15):
issues. And therefore we don't reallyknow how much he knew. Much he
doesn't know. But I do knowsomething else about what when Devid was trying
to bring Yosele to a Habad institutionin Morocco, and they have asked the
Rebbe if they should accept the boyor not, and after the Rebbe told

(33:37):
them not to accept the boy,and so she was unable to find a
solution in Morocco. Fascinating, soit CHRISTI knew that the boy is in
Morocco. There was Contactingbadi Shiva inMorocco. So he knew he had some
information about what was going on withYosel, he never shared it with anyone.

(33:58):
So let me ask you this question, presbar So. If the Mossad
infiltrated the Somber community in New Yorkand they saw Ruth bend Vid meeting for
hours with the soft Moravian, theyconnected the dots, why didn't they need
to go ahead and get her tocooperation? They couldn't they have done more
work on the ground and Williamsburg ifthat's what they knew that he was the

(34:19):
boy was there. They probably suspectedhe was there. So when they have
people done that on their own withouther help, they didn't know that the
boy executed. He's located in thesat is a big community, you know,
you can go house by house.Well days it wasn't a big as
it is today. Yeah, butanother thing, they didn't want to mess
with the FBI. They didn't wantto do anything you know that is breaking

(34:42):
the low the American law. Sowhen they when the hood was confessed and
gave the address to the Mossad,the Mossad contacted the FBI and told them
this is the address, please goand pick the boy from there, and
the FBI was not was nothing theyrushed to do that. Why was the
behind a rush to do it?So international intrigues. So here's the thing.

(35:08):
So there was a Soviet spy andI just I don't remember his name
right now, that the CIA wasable to catch in America and he and
he was able to use a fakepassport to escape the United States persecutionist jail

(35:28):
time. And he was Jewish,so he flew to Israel and he was
asking for a you know, foryou know that Israel will give him citizenship
and protection because it's Jewish. Andhe was a Soviet spy. And the
FBI said to Israel, you wantyourself, bring us the spy please,

(35:50):
So there was an exchange. AfterIsrael sent the spy back to the United
States, yourself, the FBI wentand knocked on the Otnos families door and
was taking yourself out of the house. So it's complica. That's very complicated.
Wow, which will be come out. That's a fascinating story, and

(36:10):
there's so much more. We're gonnaWe're gonna continue our conversation looking at the
case of Ruth Blau, who infiltratedthe Gestapo bought for the French resistance was
arrested in France after After the war, she converted to Judaism. She married
Rabbi amrn Blau, leader of NatureCarta, and she was the brains behind

(36:31):
the kidnapping of Yosslo Schumacher. Ourguest is Professor Muttiambari, Professor Jewish University
of North Carolina, Pembroke, andhe is author of a fascinating book dealing
with Ruth Claud, which be outnext summer. Did you know that New
York City family speak over one hundreddaily languages, Good news for parents.

(36:52):
All public schools in the city providetranslation services and interpreters for meetings. You
can request translation for report cards,special education documents like i EPs, and
interpretation for your meetings with teachers andstaff. For more information, visit schools
dot NYC, dot gov, fourslash hello or call three one one.
Did you know that my friends atMaxi can get you Internet for free if

(37:14):
you are enrolled in certain government programs. Thanks to the FCCS Affordable Connectivity Program,
you can receive fifteen gigabyte a monthlymobile internet for free and a brand
new Android tablet for just a onetime twenty dollars cope if you received depel
grant this academic year, or ifyou receive government benefits such as Medicaid,
WC, snap SSI, Veterans,Pension Survivors benefits, National School Lunch Program,

(37:37):
or if your income is under thirtynine thousand, four hundred forty dollars
for a family of two, youcan automatically qualify for this benefit for just
twenty dollars. You can get abrand new Android tablet with fifteen gigabytes of
free Internet every month. Call eighteight eight six nine six two nine seven
four to get free Internet today.That's eight eight eight six nine six two
nine seven four for your free Internetand twenty dollars tablet today. If you

(37:59):
liked in a pair of tickets tothe JACON conference Tuesday in Staff in Ireland,
please send me an email to ZeVAtalk line network dot com. Please
put JACON in the Bilum giving waya pair of tickets, but we need
your name, adderson, zip code. Please send it to ZeVA talkline network
dot com. We're looking at RuthBlause. She is a former Yeah,
actually she was a Gestapo unless shemasqueraded as Gestapo she was arrested by the

(38:22):
French. She worked with the Mosage. She married the turret cart, the
leader of Byam rum Blau, andshe had the whole intrigue of the Husslo
Schumach affair. She was the mastermind. Our guests Professor Mutti Imbari, professor
Jewish Studies at the University of NorthCarolina at Pembroke, and his fascinating book
of rue Blau will be out ina number of months, and we're continuing

(38:45):
to look at this really fascinating,fascinating story. Okay, let's squeeze in
some phone calls. I believe you'reon the air where you're calling from.
So what's your points about what theprofessor said? Okay, that's the worst
talpment of it. We're not alto. Didn't want to be involved and not
want to be involved, and itwas not involved. That's the one.

(39:05):
Number two. His grandfather didn't wantto shook him away because his mother wanted
to send them. Wanted to goback to Russia. And that was amazing.
Seeking point not where his mother enrolledhim on, which school his mother
wanted. They didn't like their lifestylein Israel. They want to go back
to his father more than his motherwanted to go back to Russia. And

(39:29):
that was that triggered his grandfather totake him away. And number three,
the Burgners were not really sotto seehim there. They blended into Sottomer.
They were here before the war andthey were the malocham you know then And
in Willimsburg they were a grouped.In fact, they broke into the Sottomer
Revere's house. They broke his mirrage, but they said it wasn't fitting for

(39:50):
a rebbee to have mirrage. Theydid not bring him, not true that
was not involved in this and didn'twant no, no, no, no,
I said them, love them.I loved him, I said them,
I loved him. The group Malochand they broke into the soccer Rebbe's
home and they broke his mirrors atone point. No, that was not
so different. That's why. Okay, I'll let the professor respond to your
go ahead, professor. Yes,so the maloch him with Maloch him,

(40:15):
You're right, You're absolutely right.Who matched the route with the maloch him?
A fake title boy him? Soyou say not involved? Okay,
So why did you see it forthree hours with the rebbe? Can you
explain that you know why she's hadthree hours of the rebbe they're talking about
part of Okay, so that's thepart of them when you get that information

(40:38):
from you, there was that fromthe most sad the information, Yeah,
that came from the most sad thatthey monitored than and I would you know,
it's good that you mentioned this thingabout Russia because this is absolutely not
true. You know, hold onone at a time that the professor,

(41:00):
Professor barrs so so also that thatthe reason why they were the kiddo was
because they were going to take her, take the ya out of Israel into
a non religious environment. So itwas was more than just being a religious
design and school. Okay, I'mgonna let what's your first name so response

(41:21):
here. So now, so youraised the question about going back to Russia,
and I have asked, actually spokewith him on recently and asked him,
is it true? What do youknow about is were your parents planning
to go back to Russia? Andhe told me that this is something that
really battered him all of his life, and he made very deep investigations into

(41:44):
this question and he came up withthe conclusion and this was not true.
This they help. His parents werenot planning to get back to Russia.
There were other immigrants from Poland whowanted to go back to Russia, but
his parents were not part of thatgroup. You know. This is what
he told me, and I spokewith him about it. Okay, thank

(42:07):
you for a really good question,good comment. Thank you. Okay,
let's go to Manhattan. I believewe have another shlomo in Manhattan. Go
ahead, you have a question forour guest. Yes, I met with
Ummer and Blow and I also inUsha Lineman. I met with Ruth in
Paris. I was every young kipperand uh. We were in the same
house, as a very religious house, as men ate in one room,

(42:29):
woman ate in another room. Andshe was still with a lot of obviously
this royal and love of Jews.And she even offered me a match.
She showed me a picture of awoman she wanted me to marry. There's
a lot of and she was inParis. She went to France from Israel
to raise fund for poor people inIsrael so they would have food to eat.

(42:49):
She was filled with a lot ofdedication and loving kindness. This is
left me. She didn't want toleave Jerusalem but she left because she could
raise fund for This is the storyof Ruth. I asked her one question.
I hope it's not anything pejorative againstit, But I had a question
against the Nctory Karta. Just priorto Yumki Porb. I was in New

(43:12):
York and I saw in the NewYork Time too Sabe page five, a
big ad from the Tory Karta.And I asked Ruth a question, did
not rebel hun and Bostman said,we should not wash our journey livings in
public. And she said that's theonly way that Israel will respond if we
embarrass them. That's what she saidto me. So I'm just telling you

(43:34):
a historical fact of nineteen seventies.Let me ask a question, how'd you
connect with the Ruth Blau? Whatwas your involvement? I was in the
same house, I would say,I was in that house eating, and
I said and had I had metAmarmblau a happy year before in rushla Am.
I went to see Amaran Blau.Just tell you, because one of
the young men in our yeshiva,he was connecting totally with Torah. So

(43:58):
I figured he's from France, andI'll bring her over Tom ram Blow,
whose wife speaks French, and there'sthe thing that'll open him up in a
special way. It turned out thatI'm ram Blow. He gave the answer,
and he the Feller, didn't evenhave to fill in. And he
said, go to the Shook andmay assure him. And go to the
russ too, who fills silver.Tell him I sent you, and who
give you a pair of skill andask for it. He himself, I'm

(44:20):
block. People think that story Cartonnot, you know that they're negative.
He was so filled with obviously stroll. He was able to convince the fellow
state that you seven for twelve yearsafterwards anybody also led violent demonstration against the
state of Israel. He has soopposed to the state, even though he
lived in Israel at the time.Yeah, this had he had his ideology

(44:40):
there. Correct If I told you, if I told you that in the
in the nineteen thirties, that theyhad all the great Rabbi says, don't
don't give any money to Karen Kayama, great Rabbi. But that's a different
listen before and that's a whole differentdiscussion. And I know professor and bars
special, but just let me sayclear for people to understand that before the

(45:01):
creation of the state, there weremany Orthodox rabbis, especially in the Haredi
Orthodox world, that were posted tothe creation of the State of Israel.
Once the state was formed, thatchanged. The Turik Carta even to this
very day, is not only apost to the state of visual They also
work with the enemies of Israel,including Iran. And if you remember,

(45:22):
we had Robe Moosha, you're freemanon this program, who brought the Neturik
Carta to the Holocaust denying conference inIran. We converted him to become a
Zionist. But Nurik to this veryday has the same philosophy of Rabbi amrm
Blau. They were posted the creationof the state of visual for the Messiani
gage based on three oats in theTalmud, but that's not accepted Norman.

(45:43):
In fact, even the Satmarebi andthey're also non Zionists and anti Zionists that
they associate themselves. But I appreciateyou having intelligent calls to thank you for
your phone call that told realized hewas a true convert with a lot of
love and a lot of dedication toall people. And we thank you for
good observation. So may I askyou this professor and baris, So how

(46:05):
did she end up? I'm talkingabout Ruth Blaw, Ruth Ben David Maringer
by Amram Blaw. You said shewas a gorgeous woman, so she could
have married anybody in the Orthodox worldtoo, Brad literally extremist, naturious.
I'm gonna tell something that your audiencewould probably be outraged, the story of
how they got married. So soshe came back to Jerusalem rebby amaham Blau

(46:32):
was married to a woman her namewas Hide. She had breast cancer and
she died. She gave him tenten children. Two months after her death,
matchmakers knocked on the woods though,asking her too if she would be
willing to marry by Amram, andshe said yes, and he said yes.

(46:54):
And I tend to think that heprobably sent the matchmakers to her two
months now. They wanted to keepit a secret because it's only two months,
but you know you can't keep asecret in Mysharim. And when his
children heard that their father is alreadyengaged and their mother is just two months

(47:16):
dead, they were outraged. Andthis was the point in which the leadership
of adahred it wanted to take advantageand to get rid of Amara Bloyd.
Now we have to understand that andadahred It are not the same thing,
and they're not always have the samemindset. And at that time adared It

(47:42):
was starting to build the business ofcash root and Kata were shaming their clients.
So who buys the cast of theadared It. It's the supporters of
other Hasidics. These are the oneswho are buying this cast. And Amram
Bloy doesn't care about that. Itjust wants to have demonstration and to shame

(48:05):
everyone. And so they wanted toget rid of him. And they used
the fact that his children were outragedby this marriage, and they went to
the court to the baddats of adahHad and ask them for an injection to
stop the marriage. And this iswhat happened. They stopped the baddats all
the Amambloy to stop the marriage,and they gave their They gave the explanation

(48:32):
why they should not be married,and they said because Amram was twenty years
older than would and because Amram hadsome issues with his futility, and in
that regard, he's deceiving her becauseshe's expecting to have children. And the
third argument was about the gossip thateverybody's making a joke, the carta and

(48:54):
ida becoming a joke. The laughterof the city was of this marriage.
And so he refuted the arguments anddid his best. And basically there was
no really halachic reasoning behind banning thismarriage. So eventually they're to fight,

(49:17):
but eventually they found the solution.The solution was that they will be allowed
to get married. It took themtwo years to get married. Sat Marebe
eventually approved the marriage on the conditionthat Amaran Bloy will move to Nebrak who
leave Jerusalem. And this basically wasthe whole issue behind this big scandal that

(49:37):
happened with the marriage. It wasan opportunity for the leadership of Aidajre did
to get rid of Amaran Bloy andto make him less in power and historical
context. When the also Schumacher's storyhappened, she was not married or what
exactly she was not, So afterthe whole after they found yourself Schumacher,

(50:01):
she got married to Rabamon Blau.Yes, she came back to Jerusalem and
she got married. So my questionto you is is why would she want
to marry Rabahamond Blau, who wasan extremist. Why and obviously she was.
He was so much older and shewas a beautiful woman. So what
I can understand why he wanted tomarry her. Why did she want to

(50:22):
marry him? Because she wanted tomarry a man of power, and she
felt that he was a man ofpower. Yes, and he was the
one who's proposing, yes, notproposing. But she was looking for a
leader, one of the leaders ofthe Haredi community, to marry him a
leader. So here's an email fromLakewood, New Jersey. Isn't it true

(50:44):
that Amron Blaum married Ruth since becauseof an injury he sustained in the word
independence and Alacha didn't permit him tomarry somebody worn Jewish. Well, you
just said it. It's correct,that is what This is what he said.
That's what he said to the Baddats. Since he had issues of fertility,
he could not have children. Itis fine to marry a convert,

(51:06):
which is considered to be a secondgrade woman. Here's an email from Zev.
The guests is being unclear. Itis well known that the Sottomo Rebbe
was not at all happy with thebringing of the boy to Williamsburg. Once
he found out, he didn't wantto inform the authorities. However, he
never approved the plan originally. Onthe contrary, he was not happy with
it. He was not happy,but his wife was assisting. So maybe

(51:29):
one hand doesn't know what the otherhand is doing. Probably, but his
wife was involved with that busy rise. Will your Guest book be made into
a movie? It sounds has allthe ingredients for at least to be a
death Flix ministerries So there is amovie that is being produced right now,
but I'm not involved in that movie. But I know that there is a
movie. There is a movie.Okay, Yeah, Our guests is Professor

(51:51):
Mutti and Bari, professor at JewishStudy, University of North Carolina, and
Pembroke. His book as Bruce Blauas being written. It's going to be
out in a number of muz Afascinating story of a lady who grew up
Catholic, who ended up spying andthen being part of the Gestapo and being
arrested by the French and being recruitedby the most sad She married in two

(52:13):
Richard to the leader of byam rumBlau, and she also was the mastermind
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Thanks to the FCC's Affordable Connectivity Program, you can receive fifteen gigabyte a monthly

(53:17):
mobile Internet for free and a brandnew Android tablet for just a one time
twenty dollars copay. If you receiveddepel grant this academic year, or if
you receive government benefits such as Medicaid, WC, SNAP SSI, Veterans,
Pension Survivors benefits, National School LunchProgram, or if your income is under
thirty nine thousand, four hundred fortydollars for a family of two, you

(53:37):
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a brand new Android tablet with fifteengigabytes of free Internet every month. Call
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(53:59):
you to the sixth annual Real EstateConference which will take place on Tuesday,
July eleven at the Hilton in StatenIsland. For more information and to register,
please visit attend jcon dot com.That's attend Jcon jco n dot com
once again Tuesday July eleven at theHilton in Staten Island. If you're in

(54:22):
the real estate, construction or financespace, join us at the sixth annual
JACON Real Estate Summit. Attend jcondot com. If you'd like to win
a pair of tickets to JACON RealEstate in Construction Conference, taking place on
Tuesday at the statl Hilton, justsend me an email to ZeVA talk Line

(54:44):
Network dot com. ZeVA talk LineNetwork dot com, please put JACON Conference
in the byline and give us yourname, addage of Zippo. Were given
way a bunch of tickets tonight,So send me an email to ZeVA talk
Line Network dot com. Did youknow that New York City family speak over
a hundred day languages Good news forparents. All public schools in the city
provide translation services and interpreters for meetings. You can request translation for report cards,

(55:08):
special education documents like i EPs,and interpretation for your meetings with teachers
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(55:29):
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