November 17, 2025 • 10 mins
Mark shares his experiences visiting Carson’s hometown and discusses his book, “Love Johnny Carson.” He reveals behind-the-scenes insights into what made Carson one of television’s greatest stars.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On wor Well, we love Johnny Carson, the greatest Todd
Show host ever. And there's a book out, a brand
new book, the Definitive Book on Johnny Carson, the Ultimate Book.
There's been some bad books of these. This is the
book on Johnny Carson. It's out. It's already a bestseller.
I urge you to get the book. Hey, by the way,
(00:20):
be a great Christmas present for somebody. The book's called
Love Johnny Carson. You can get it on Amazon. It's
a great book, Love Johnny Carson. It's the real story,
the whole story. And it's by Mark Malcoff, who does
the Carson Podcast, which has been on for years. Got
a lot of big devoted listeners. You should listen to
that too, the Carson Podcast. But the author of the
(00:42):
new book, Love Johnny Carson, Mark Malkoff.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
How you doing, Mark, I'm doing great. Nice to talk
to you, sir.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Hey. It's you've been on a book tour all over
the place promoting it. But you just went to Johnny
Carson's hometown, right, tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It was in Norfolk, Nebraska. They flew me out there.
I thought it was called Norfolk. They say Norfolk, but
I was in Johnny Carson's boyhood home. The owner invited
me over there and just to be in that space
and see where Johnny slept with his brother Dick, and
it was unbelievable. They had me sign autographed the living
room wall with other visitors. The Smothers brothers have been there,
(01:22):
Paul Riser, and they have a local museum, the Elkhorn
Valley Museum, with Johnny's awards, his Emmy's costumes like art
Fernon Blabby and it was unbelievable just to be at
this place that made and shape Johnny Carson.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, when you stand there in the middle of Nebraska,
the Great Midwest, you realize how far this guy came
and what a journey he took.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
He did, I mean when he was seventeen, when he
graduated high school at seventeen, the first thing he did
was hitchhike to Los Angeles and he bought a star
map to the and went to Jack Benny's home and
waved it outside to see if Benny would come out,
which he did. But yeah, Johnny always had these ambitions,
but Nebraska definitely shaped him. And just to be back
(02:06):
there and to talk to people that had Johnny's teacher,
Fay Gordon, who turned when she turned one hundred years old.
And then I think early mid nineties, Johnny returned back
to Nebraska for her one hundred birthday. But I talked
to people that were older that had Johnny's teacher, and Johnny,
of course over there is like, I mean, he's an
icon to us, but back there, I mean he's royalty
(02:27):
and rightfully so. I mean he's donated so much money
and helped out with so many good causes.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah. Now, there was a guy that gave him his
first big radio job in Nebraska, and as you point out,
he was so nice that guy. For the rest of
his life, he always helped the guy and met with him, right.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, Meryl Workhoven was his name, and he was in
Omaha and he got Johnny his really big first job
in radio and Omaha, and Johnny kept in touch with
him for decades, would invite him to the Tonight show.
They'd go out to dinner at Johnny's one of Johnny's favorite,
The Palm in La And then when this gentleman Meryll,
(03:03):
who worked in radio for something like thirty years in Nebraska,
when his car broke down driving out to La Johnny
surprised him with a new car and new Buick. And
when Johnny presented this to Meryl Workove and they both
started crying. I mean their daughter, his daughter, Melanie Workoven
was telling me the story about being there, and yeah,
(03:24):
Johnny had very close friends, which I talked about in
the book, which to the media, you know, they said
he was cold and aloof But the people I talked to,
the four hundred people, I mean, you knew Johnny Carson,
you met him, they told me that he was not
like that.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah. Well, he said, when you go to work, it's
called work. It's not fun. You got to be very
business like and you got to be a little cold
when you go to work. You're not there to have fun.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
He would. Yeah, he would protect his energy too, because
he was you would only get there a couple hours
before the show, because he didn't want to waste his
energy on a show date. No lunch is with people.
I mean, for most of his career he was doing
leads ninety minutes, if not an hour and forty five,
and he was just always exhausted, so he had to
protect his energy, which they hear the stories was just
(04:09):
it's been unbelievable. I mean, Bob Yucker was somebody that
I talked to on the Carson podcast for an hour.
He was telling me that the first time he went
on the show in like nineteen sixty nine, Johnny did
not believe afterwards that he was a real major league
baseball player. He thought he was so funny that he
had to be a comedian that was lying about being
a major league baseball player. And Johnny's staff had to
(04:30):
show him articles and just to hear those stories. I mean,
Uker told me they never used the pre interview. Uker,
Buddy Hackett, Don Rickles no pre interviews. I mean, he
was effortless.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah. Hey, now everybody should get this book. You're gonna
love this book. It's just one fascinating chapter and story
after another. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Brand new book
by Mark Malkoff called Love Johnny Carson. Go order it now.
They taped the show every night, But in thirty years
did they ever stop a tape? They just never stop
for any reason, did they.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Very few times. The one time I remember is Della
Reese had a throw at an ant brain aneurysm. They
stopped that almost never. I think it was. I think
John Davidson kicked a speaker and the something that happened
and they had to cancel a taping. But Johnny liked
to keep in the mistakes. The mistakes were all part
(05:21):
of the show. Like well, for example, when Robert Gulea
John Davidson forgot the words to a song, Johnny wouldn't
let them stop tape. He said, no, you're gonna get it.
You're gonna figure it out. And the audience loved it.
And you know, it just made these famous celebrities more
endearing to the audience. But I have to say, I
want to tell people in the New York City area.
One thing I do want to mention, and you were
(05:42):
just there and I was there just a day ago,
is the Paley Center at fifty second Street in New
York City has Johnny Carson's actual desk chair the couch.
It's unbelievable to sit there, and you can actually sit
in Johnny's chair from the step. But I know you
were there, I saw the photo. Would is tremendous. But
every opportunity when I'm in midtown, I try to stop
(06:03):
by the Paley Center.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, it's a wonderful place. If you check my Instagram,
you see a picture of me sitting in the Carson desk,
but it's over there at the Paley Center, which is
a wonderful museum on fifty second Street. Hey, there's things
that the Johnny Carson did with traditions on the Tonight Show.
They're all gone now. They don't do them anymore, Like
having a guest host or a sidekick sitting next to you,
or a new comedian stand up comedian new Stanton. How
(06:26):
come that all went away? They don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I don't know. I feel like the panel was the
best part when you would have these people like I
don't know, Don Rickles or Glenn Campbell and they start
getting at it, and there was just so much fun
with those traditions. I don't know why the shows have
just deviated so much from what worked. It doesn't make
any sense to me about that tradition. Yeah, it's just
(06:52):
it's different. I mean, I do like the fact that
all the late night hosts still talk about Johnny Carson
with reverends. Yeah, it's not the same. I mean, I
and I hear from people all across America that miss Johnny,
that go to the official Johnny YouTube channel, and there's
over a million subscrib people that have subscribed to this
YouTube channel, and it's just amazing just to look at
that body of work. But yeah, I really do wish
(07:15):
they would have kept some of those traditions.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Well, you should also start listening to the Carson podcast.
Mark Malkoff did with like six hundred episodes of it
with every.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
We did a lot, and we have new episodes coming up.
Ed Shaughnessy, who's the drummer. We have his son I
talked to. I talked to a bunch of other people
that I wasn't able to get on the podcast. So
we're doing new episodes and we're gonna be doing some
events around the country. I was just in Chicago at
their Museum of Broadcasts and Communications. They have a late
night exhibit some Carson and Letterman items. So yeah, it's
(07:45):
been just incredible. Just people miss Johnny. I thought, Mark,
I really thought, like, wh're talking to you? When we
first started talking and stuff, I didn't realize how many
people that around the country just missed Johnny as much
as us. But they are all over the place.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, that's why should get the book. Love Johnny Carson big, new,
wonderful book about Johnny Carson, the real story, and it'd
be a great Christmas present. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Now,
I always preferred the New York Tonight Show years. There
was something better about it. But Carson had a lot
of trouble in New York, right, women drinking, that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, he would talk about on the Tonight Show with
his struggle with alcohol. That was always a thing he
talked about. He would say he would have one more
drink than he should, he would turn into Attila the Hunt.
So he definitely had some tough times. Jillie's and Ed
McMahon would babysit him and make sure he would get home.
And he got in some trouble in Frank Sinatra one
time had to save his life there. I talk about
(08:40):
that in the book, But I agree. I think the
New York years with you know, Jimmy Breslin and just
I think that it was just such a more intimate,
classy show, sophisticated show. I did like when they during
those first ten years when they go out to Hollywood,
because it would go off the rails with you know,
people like George Goebel and Dean Martin. But I definitely
think those first ten years from the clips that I've seen,
(09:02):
I think that those are stellar, and those really hold
up the footage that does exist. Not a lot of
it does, but when I've seen it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, So it's a one of a book. I'm telling
you get the book. You'll really love it. It's everything
you ever want to know. I knew everything there was
to know about Johnny Carson, but I could read this
book and find out fifty thousand things I didn't know.
It's got everything about Johnny Carson.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, I mean Ed Eames. I mean, I'm in but
for at Beverly Hill is sitting down with Ed Eames,
He's in his nineties telling me about he didn't know
how to throw a tomahawk, And I'm getting the actual
story from the man himself, the most famous Carson clip
of all times. So we put all the stories in.
Talk to everyone that went on the show, Johnny's staff,
and I have to say, I've heard from a lot
of people that knew Johnny and people at the tonight show,
(09:46):
and they have all been so complimentary about me getting
the story right, which I'm grateful to hear. And you know,
I've been, you know, working on this for years, and
you've been such a great support in helping me with
the books. I mean, you know so much about Late
Night and Carson. I didn't know. I'm grateful to you.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Well, everybody, get the book. Order it today, Order it now.
It's called Love Johnny Carson. It's on Amazon. It'd be
a good Christmas present too. Love Johnny Carson is the book.
Go order it and listen to the Carson Podcast. Start listening.
Mark Melcoff, thanks for being with us. We'll talk again.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Soon, Talk soon. Thank you so much, Marcus pleasure, take care.
Thank you sure. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Hey, don't forget Bucking Clay coming up at noon today
right here on seven ten wor
On wor Well, we love Johnny Carson, the greatest Todd
Show host ever. And there's a book out, a brand
new book, the Definitive Book on Johnny Carson, the Ultimate Book.
There's been some bad books of these. This is the
book on Johnny Carson. It's out. It's already a bestseller.
I urge you to get the book. Hey, by the way,
(00:20):
be a great Christmas present for somebody. The book's called
Love Johnny Carson. You can get it on Amazon. It's
a great book, Love Johnny Carson. It's the real story,
the whole story. And it's by Mark Malcoff, who does
the Carson Podcast, which has been on for years. Got
a lot of big devoted listeners. You should listen to
that too, the Carson Podcast. But the author of the
(00:42):
new book, Love Johnny Carson, Mark Malkoff.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
How you doing, Mark, I'm doing great. Nice to talk
to you, sir.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Hey. It's you've been on a book tour all over
the place promoting it. But you just went to Johnny
Carson's hometown, right, tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It was in Norfolk, Nebraska. They flew me out there.
I thought it was called Norfolk. They say Norfolk, but
I was in Johnny Carson's boyhood home. The owner invited
me over there and just to be in that space
and see where Johnny slept with his brother Dick, and
it was unbelievable. They had me sign autographed the living
room wall with other visitors. The Smothers brothers have been there,
(01:22):
Paul Riser, and they have a local museum, the Elkhorn
Valley Museum, with Johnny's awards, his Emmy's costumes like art
Fernon Blabby and it was unbelievable just to be at
this place that made and shape Johnny Carson.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, when you stand there in the middle of Nebraska,
the Great Midwest, you realize how far this guy came
and what a journey he took.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
He did, I mean when he was seventeen, when he
graduated high school at seventeen, the first thing he did
was hitchhike to Los Angeles and he bought a star
map to the and went to Jack Benny's home and
waved it outside to see if Benny would come out,
which he did. But yeah, Johnny always had these ambitions,
but Nebraska definitely shaped him. And just to be back
(02:06):
there and to talk to people that had Johnny's teacher,
Fay Gordon, who turned when she turned one hundred years old.
And then I think early mid nineties, Johnny returned back
to Nebraska for her one hundred birthday. But I talked
to people that were older that had Johnny's teacher, and Johnny,
of course over there is like, I mean, he's an
icon to us, but back there, I mean he's royalty
(02:27):
and rightfully so. I mean he's donated so much money
and helped out with so many good causes.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah. Now, there was a guy that gave him his
first big radio job in Nebraska, and as you point out,
he was so nice that guy. For the rest of
his life, he always helped the guy and met with him, right.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, Meryl Workhoven was his name, and he was in
Omaha and he got Johnny his really big first job
in radio and Omaha, and Johnny kept in touch with
him for decades, would invite him to the Tonight show.
They'd go out to dinner at Johnny's one of Johnny's favorite,
The Palm in La And then when this gentleman Meryll,
(03:03):
who worked in radio for something like thirty years in Nebraska,
when his car broke down driving out to La Johnny
surprised him with a new car and new Buick. And
when Johnny presented this to Meryl Workove and they both
started crying. I mean their daughter, his daughter, Melanie Workoven
was telling me the story about being there, and yeah,
(03:24):
Johnny had very close friends, which I talked about in
the book, which to the media, you know, they said
he was cold and aloof But the people I talked to,
the four hundred people, I mean, you knew Johnny Carson,
you met him, they told me that he was not
like that.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah. Well, he said, when you go to work, it's
called work. It's not fun. You got to be very
business like and you got to be a little cold
when you go to work. You're not there to have fun.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
He would. Yeah, he would protect his energy too, because
he was you would only get there a couple hours
before the show, because he didn't want to waste his
energy on a show date. No lunch is with people.
I mean, for most of his career he was doing
leads ninety minutes, if not an hour and forty five,
and he was just always exhausted, so he had to
protect his energy, which they hear the stories was just
(04:09):
it's been unbelievable. I mean, Bob Yucker was somebody that
I talked to on the Carson podcast for an hour.
He was telling me that the first time he went
on the show in like nineteen sixty nine, Johnny did
not believe afterwards that he was a real major league
baseball player. He thought he was so funny that he
had to be a comedian that was lying about being
a major league baseball player. And Johnny's staff had to
(04:30):
show him articles and just to hear those stories. I mean,
Uker told me they never used the pre interview. Uker,
Buddy Hackett, Don Rickles no pre interviews. I mean, he
was effortless.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah. Hey, now everybody should get this book. You're gonna
love this book. It's just one fascinating chapter and story
after another. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Brand new book
by Mark Malkoff called Love Johnny Carson. Go order it now.
They taped the show every night, But in thirty years
did they ever stop a tape? They just never stop
for any reason, did they.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Very few times. The one time I remember is Della
Reese had a throw at an ant brain aneurysm. They
stopped that almost never. I think it was. I think
John Davidson kicked a speaker and the something that happened
and they had to cancel a taping. But Johnny liked
to keep in the mistakes. The mistakes were all part
(05:21):
of the show. Like well, for example, when Robert Gulea
John Davidson forgot the words to a song, Johnny wouldn't
let them stop tape. He said, no, you're gonna get it.
You're gonna figure it out. And the audience loved it.
And you know, it just made these famous celebrities more
endearing to the audience. But I have to say, I
want to tell people in the New York City area.
One thing I do want to mention, and you were
(05:42):
just there and I was there just a day ago,
is the Paley Center at fifty second Street in New
York City has Johnny Carson's actual desk chair the couch.
It's unbelievable to sit there, and you can actually sit
in Johnny's chair from the step. But I know you
were there, I saw the photo. Would is tremendous. But
every opportunity when I'm in midtown, I try to stop
(06:03):
by the Paley Center.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, it's a wonderful place. If you check my Instagram,
you see a picture of me sitting in the Carson desk,
but it's over there at the Paley Center, which is
a wonderful museum on fifty second Street. Hey, there's things
that the Johnny Carson did with traditions on the Tonight Show.
They're all gone now. They don't do them anymore, Like
having a guest host or a sidekick sitting next to you,
or a new comedian stand up comedian new Stanton. How
(06:26):
come that all went away? They don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I don't know. I feel like the panel was the
best part when you would have these people like I
don't know, Don Rickles or Glenn Campbell and they start
getting at it, and there was just so much fun
with those traditions. I don't know why the shows have
just deviated so much from what worked. It doesn't make
any sense to me about that tradition. Yeah, it's just
(06:52):
it's different. I mean, I do like the fact that
all the late night hosts still talk about Johnny Carson
with reverends. Yeah, it's not the same. I mean, I
and I hear from people all across America that miss Johnny,
that go to the official Johnny YouTube channel, and there's
over a million subscrib people that have subscribed to this
YouTube channel, and it's just amazing just to look at
that body of work. But yeah, I really do wish
(07:15):
they would have kept some of those traditions.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Well, you should also start listening to the Carson podcast.
Mark Malkoff did with like six hundred episodes of it
with every.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
We did a lot, and we have new episodes coming up.
Ed Shaughnessy, who's the drummer. We have his son I
talked to. I talked to a bunch of other people
that I wasn't able to get on the podcast. So
we're doing new episodes and we're gonna be doing some
events around the country. I was just in Chicago at
their Museum of Broadcasts and Communications. They have a late
night exhibit some Carson and Letterman items. So yeah, it's
(07:45):
been just incredible. Just people miss Johnny. I thought, Mark,
I really thought, like, wh're talking to you? When we
first started talking and stuff, I didn't realize how many
people that around the country just missed Johnny as much
as us. But they are all over the place.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, that's why should get the book. Love Johnny Carson big, new,
wonderful book about Johnny Carson, the real story, and it'd
be a great Christmas present. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Now,
I always preferred the New York Tonight Show years. There
was something better about it. But Carson had a lot
of trouble in New York, right, women drinking, that kind
of stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Yeah, he would talk about on the Tonight Show with
his struggle with alcohol. That was always a thing he
talked about. He would say he would have one more
drink than he should, he would turn into Attila the Hunt.
So he definitely had some tough times. Jillie's and Ed
McMahon would babysit him and make sure he would get home.
And he got in some trouble in Frank Sinatra one
time had to save his life there. I talk about
(08:40):
that in the book, But I agree. I think the
New York years with you know, Jimmy Breslin and just
I think that it was just such a more intimate,
classy show, sophisticated show. I did like when they during
those first ten years when they go out to Hollywood,
because it would go off the rails with you know,
people like George Goebel and Dean Martin. But I definitely
think those first ten years from the clips that I've seen,
(09:02):
I think that those are stellar, and those really hold
up the footage that does exist. Not a lot of
it does, but when I've seen it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, So it's a one of a book. I'm telling
you get the book. You'll really love it. It's everything
you ever want to know. I knew everything there was
to know about Johnny Carson, but I could read this
book and find out fifty thousand things I didn't know.
It's got everything about Johnny Carson.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, I mean Ed Eames. I mean, I'm in but
for at Beverly Hill is sitting down with Ed Eames,
He's in his nineties telling me about he didn't know
how to throw a tomahawk, And I'm getting the actual
story from the man himself, the most famous Carson clip
of all times. So we put all the stories in.
Talk to everyone that went on the show, Johnny's staff,
and I have to say, I've heard from a lot
of people that knew Johnny and people at the tonight show,
(09:46):
and they have all been so complimentary about me getting
the story right, which I'm grateful to hear. And you know,
I've been, you know, working on this for years, and
you've been such a great support in helping me with
the books. I mean, you know so much about Late
Night and Carson. I didn't know. I'm grateful to you.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Well, everybody, get the book. Order it today, Order it now.
It's called Love Johnny Carson. It's on Amazon. It'd be
a good Christmas present too. Love Johnny Carson is the book.
Go order it and listen to the Carson Podcast. Start listening.
Mark Melcoff, thanks for being with us. We'll talk again.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Soon, Talk soon. Thank you so much, Marcus pleasure, take care.
Thank you sure. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Hey, don't forget Bucking Clay coming up at noon today
right here on seven ten wor
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