Dr. Alon Ben Meir is a retired professor of International Relations, formerly at New York University’s Center for Global Affairs and Senior Fellow at the World Policy Institute. Ben-Meir is an expert on Middle East and West Balkan affairs, international negotiations, and conflict resolution. In the past two decades, Ben-Meir has been directly involved in various backchannel negotiations involving Israel and its neighboring countries and Turkey. Ben-Meir is featured on a variety of television networks and also regularly briefs at the U.S. State Department for the International Visitors Program. He writes a weekly article that is syndicated globally. Dr. Ben-Meir has authored seven books related to Middle East and is currently working on two new books about Syria and Turkey. Ben-Meir holds a master’s degree in philosophy and a doctorate in international relations from Oxford University.
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(00:00):
This is a podcast from WOOR Nowmore of the WOOR Saturday Morning Show and
Larry Minty Welcome back. This week, the Israeli Prime Minister accused the Biden
administration of withholding promised weapons that Israelneeds to end the war in Gaza and
eliminate Hamas. The White House bluntlyresponded that we don't know what he's talking
(00:24):
about. Maybe our next guest does. Doctor Alan ben Mehir recently retired from
NYU Center for Global Affairs. Heis Senior Fellow at the World Policy Institute
and has been directly involved with backchannel negotiations. Doctor ben Mehir, thank
you so much for joining us thisweek. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netna,
(00:47):
who claimed America was withholding military aidand hampering Israel's war effort. John Kirby
from the Pentagon is the spokesperson there, said, we don't know what he's
taught talking about. Can you explain, doctor Benmhir, what's going on?
Yes, I think let me beginby saying it's extremely shameful on the part
of Prime Minister now to make thatstatement in the first place, I mean
(01:12):
just the suggestion. But he saidthat America is holding weapons, which when
Israel is facing existential threats from aso called terrorist organization. I just cannot
imagine what kind of message to thiscenter its enemies like Iran or Husbalda.
I'd be that as it may,for him to accuse the administration, specifically
(01:34):
President Biden, who has been themost supportive of all the president of Israel,
to say something of this sort,it is really an insult to the
president, and that's really put andeven in a much darker spot than his
being thus far. So you believethe White House, you don't believe Netanyahu.
You believe that he is he makingthis up. Well, they ask
(01:59):
some there were some statis and deliveryof the major bombs, like the two
thousand bombs weapon, which is absolutelyunnecessary in order to finish, so to
speak, the finding in Raper.That is not necessary because these type of
bombs can cause massive, massive damageto civilian communities, which is all specifically
(02:21):
because HARMSS is embedded within the civiliancommunity. So these weapons are absolutely unnecessary.
But all other weapons have been flowingto Israel uninterruptedly this far, so
for him to make that kind ofstatement is wrong, and to say this
publicly It's much worse because if there'sany a grievances on his part, should
(02:45):
have expressed that privately to the administrationand not make such blatant, unnecessary,
and counter productive statement. The UnitedStates now believes that there's fewer than forty
of the one hundred and sixteen remaininghostages still live. It is that's strange
to me. I understand why.I understand the reasons, but it's strange
(03:05):
to me. Doesn't it behoove Hamasto keep these hostages alive? Is it
that the only leverage they have innegotiations? This is true, but I
do not feel do not think thatHamas is killing the hostages, because if
they want to do so, theywould have done some of it publicly to
put international pressure or pressure on Israel. These hostages might have died because of
(03:28):
injuries they have sustained when they wereactually taken. Many of them got extremely
sick during their captivity, and theywere not provided with the proper medical treatment
that they needed sometimes because it's justnot available. So I do not believe
that Hamas necessarily. In fact,I don't think that's killed a single hostage
deliberately, because that's simply like youexactly what you said does not serve their
(03:53):
interest because it is the biggest bargainingchip that they have necessary they don't want
to do that ship. Some ofthe hostages that have been released recently say
they were tortured, both physically andmentally. When you torture someone or you
put them in circumstances that are hardto live in, isn't that killing them?
(04:13):
Well? Uh, you know,there, there's there's a there's a
difference between the two. Let's takethe last the poor osages that's been rescued
lately, the last four hossages,and none of them have said actually they
were there was there were torture tothe point where to a point where they
were despairing and almost wanted to killthemselves. That was not the case.
(04:34):
As a matter of fact, theywere. They were all found in good
health. So, yes, thereis tremendous you know, trauma, there's
tremendous psychological pressure on the hostages.They don't know what to expect, they
don't know if they've got to survive. That alone, of course, can
cause a massive damage in every whichway you can imagine. But again,
(04:55):
that does not necessarily translate to deliverit killing them because as I said,
that simply does not serve a massiveinterest. For that matter, what they
would do with the dead people withthe dead hasAge have been captured. They
even holding on to that because theyeven did, still is a bargaining ship
that they want to use. Weare talking to doctor Alan ben Mehir,
(05:17):
Senior fellow at the World Policy Instituteand recently retired from n YU Center for
Global Affairs. I know you've beeninvolved directly involved with back channel negotiations with
the Middle East. What do youbelieve is going on with the negotiations right
now concerning the war in Gaza.Well, the negotiation, the administration presented
(05:43):
a plan whereby there would be sixsix weeks and as seas fire and to
allow for the supplies desperately needed formedicine, fuel, drinking water that is
absolutely necessary and critical at this jumps. The second phase was supposed to be
discussing a permanent cease fire. Ihave been saying that a permanent cease fire
(06:08):
should also have a longer vision interms of what is going to be,
what is going to be the fateof Gaza, what is going to be
the faith of harmas itself that isin my view, what happened Harmas's attack
as it created in my view,a new paradigm and the two stage solution
came back to the table. Thatis, in my view, there is
(06:29):
an opportunity, I'm president, anopportunity now, since you cannot go back
to the status called it existed beforeOctober seven, is now opportunity to begin
to discuss a future Asraeli for asenior relation, which has to be best
still on a two stage solution,that is the phase two of the negotiation.
They need to talk about what isgoing to be the endgame and the
(06:51):
endgame if they want to avoid anotherdisastrous work and then at a company for
another four generations, they must beginto talk about two stage solutions. So
I've been suggesting in my speaches andpreaches. I'm writing that this is the
time now. Hamas need to acceptthe facts of life. That is,
(07:12):
an existence is irrevocable. So justsays, so, I really need to
accept the fact that even if theycrushed Hamas militarily, Hamas will remain a
significant political movement within the Paloitenian community. Hence, both need to accept irrevocable
reality and if they do, sothey're not gonna have to think in terms
of Okay, so how what kindof path shall we charge forward and begin?
(07:36):
That's a process. There is,in my no other way of resettling.
The settling is really Palitinian conflict untilthey begin to speak in terms of
long term solution based on a twostage solution. There have been some sir
who say, Benjamin Nenya, whois trying to wait out the Biden administration
(07:57):
because he would prefer to deal withDonald Trump. Uh, and that's why
he made that claim this week aboutnot getting arms. Do you believe there's
any truth to that? Absolutely?And who simply has not seen I too
eye neither with the President Barack Obamacertainly doesn't say I too I with the
President Biden. Albeit, President PresidentBiden has demonstrated an incredible, incredible unpresidented
(08:20):
support of Israel to do Israel,especially just imagine flying going to Israel in
the midst of the war. There'sno president has done before. Yes,
So who does prefer to to dealwith with the with the former President Trump?
Because Trump, you know, hasbeen pretty much manipulated by data when
(08:41):
he was president first for example,persuading him to withdraw from the Iran Deal,
which was a disaster for Israel.To tell, so, President Trump
that doesn't have really long term visionabout the Middle East. No, don't
rock conversion about the Israeli Policenian conflict. President Trump does what's field or what
is best for himself for him andnot not really necessarily caring about what Dtina
(09:05):
wants to or wants to do.So the two and may in some ways
see I two I if that isgood work to happen, I think it's
going to be disastrous for Israel.Doctor ben Meir, thank you so much
for your time. It's my pleasurean thank you, Doctor Alan ben Mehir,
Senior Fellow at the World Policy Institute. This has been a podcast from
(09:28):
w o R.
This is a podcast from WOOR Nowmore of the WOOR Saturday Morning Show and
Larry Minty Welcome back. This week, the Israeli Prime Minister accused the Biden
administration of withholding promised weapons that Israelneeds to end the war in Gaza and
eliminate Hamas. The White House bluntlyresponded that we don't know what he's talking
(00:24):
about. Maybe our next guest does. Doctor Alan ben Mehir recently retired from
NYU Center for Global Affairs. Heis Senior Fellow at the World Policy Institute
and has been directly involved with backchannel negotiations. Doctor ben Mehir, thank
you so much for joining us thisweek. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netna,
(00:47):
who claimed America was withholding military aidand hampering Israel's war effort. John Kirby
from the Pentagon is the spokesperson there, said, we don't know what he's
taught talking about. Can you explain, doctor Benmhir, what's going on?
Yes, I think let me beginby saying it's extremely shameful on the part
of Prime Minister now to make thatstatement in the first place, I mean
(01:12):
just the suggestion. But he saidthat America is holding weapons, which when
Israel is facing existential threats from aso called terrorist organization. I just cannot
imagine what kind of message to thiscenter its enemies like Iran or Husbalda.
I'd be that as it may,for him to accuse the administration, specifically
(01:34):
President Biden, who has been themost supportive of all the president of Israel,
to say something of this sort,it is really an insult to the
president, and that's really put andeven in a much darker spot than his
being thus far. So you believethe White House, you don't believe Netanyahu.
You believe that he is he makingthis up. Well, they ask
(01:59):
some there were some statis and deliveryof the major bombs, like the two
thousand bombs weapon, which is absolutelyunnecessary in order to finish, so to
speak, the finding in Raper.That is not necessary because these type of
bombs can cause massive, massive damageto civilian communities, which is all specifically
(02:21):
because HARMSS is embedded within the civiliancommunity. So these weapons are absolutely unnecessary.
But all other weapons have been flowingto Israel uninterruptedly this far, so
for him to make that kind ofstatement is wrong, and to say this
publicly It's much worse because if there'sany a grievances on his part, should
(02:45):
have expressed that privately to the administrationand not make such blatant, unnecessary,
and counter productive statement. The UnitedStates now believes that there's fewer than forty
of the one hundred and sixteen remaininghostages still live. It is that's strange
to me. I understand why.I understand the reasons, but it's strange
(03:05):
to me. Doesn't it behoove Hamasto keep these hostages alive? Is it
that the only leverage they have innegotiations? This is true, but I
do not feel do not think thatHamas is killing the hostages, because if
they want to do so, theywould have done some of it publicly to
put international pressure or pressure on Israel. These hostages might have died because of
(03:28):
injuries they have sustained when they wereactually taken. Many of them got extremely
sick during their captivity, and theywere not provided with the proper medical treatment
that they needed sometimes because it's justnot available. So I do not believe
that Hamas necessarily. In fact,I don't think that's killed a single hostage
deliberately, because that's simply like youexactly what you said does not serve their
(03:53):
interest because it is the biggest bargainingchip that they have necessary they don't want
to do that ship. Some ofthe hostages that have been released recently say
they were tortured, both physically andmentally. When you torture someone or you
put them in circumstances that are hardto live in, isn't that killing them?
(04:13):
Well? Uh, you know,there, there's there's a there's a
difference between the two. Let's takethe last the poor osages that's been rescued
lately, the last four hossages,and none of them have said actually they
were there was there were torture tothe point where to a point where they
were despairing and almost wanted to killthemselves. That was not the case.
(04:34):
As a matter of fact, theywere. They were all found in good
health. So, yes, thereis tremendous you know, trauma, there's
tremendous psychological pressure on the hostages.They don't know what to expect, they
don't know if they've got to survive. That alone, of course, can
cause a massive damage in every whichway you can imagine. But again,
(04:55):
that does not necessarily translate to deliverit killing them because as I said,
that simply does not serve a massiveinterest. For that matter, what they
would do with the dead people withthe dead hasAge have been captured. They
even holding on to that because theyeven did, still is a bargaining ship
that they want to use. Weare talking to doctor Alan ben Mehir,
(05:17):
Senior fellow at the World Policy Instituteand recently retired from n YU Center for
Global Affairs. I know you've beeninvolved directly involved with back channel negotiations with
the Middle East. What do youbelieve is going on with the negotiations right
now concerning the war in Gaza.Well, the negotiation, the administration presented
(05:43):
a plan whereby there would be sixsix weeks and as seas fire and to
allow for the supplies desperately needed formedicine, fuel, drinking water that is
absolutely necessary and critical at this jumps. The second phase was supposed to be
discussing a permanent cease fire. Ihave been saying that a permanent cease fire
(06:08):
should also have a longer vision interms of what is going to be,
what is going to be the fateof Gaza, what is going to be
the faith of harmas itself that isin my view, what happened Harmas's attack
as it created in my view,a new paradigm and the two stage solution
came back to the table. Thatis, in my view, there is
(06:29):
an opportunity, I'm president, anopportunity now, since you cannot go back
to the status called it existed beforeOctober seven, is now opportunity to begin
to discuss a future Asraeli for asenior relation, which has to be best
still on a two stage solution,that is the phase two of the negotiation.
They need to talk about what isgoing to be the endgame and the
(06:51):
endgame if they want to avoid anotherdisastrous work and then at a company for
another four generations, they must beginto talk about two stage solutions. So
I've been suggesting in my speaches andpreaches. I'm writing that this is the
time now. Hamas need to acceptthe facts of life. That is,
(07:12):
an existence is irrevocable. So justsays, so, I really need to
accept the fact that even if theycrushed Hamas militarily, Hamas will remain a
significant political movement within the Paloitenian community. Hence, both need to accept irrevocable
reality and if they do, sothey're not gonna have to think in terms
of Okay, so how what kindof path shall we charge forward and begin?
(07:36):
That's a process. There is,in my no other way of resettling.
The settling is really Palitinian conflict untilthey begin to speak in terms of
long term solution based on a twostage solution. There have been some sir
who say, Benjamin Nenya, whois trying to wait out the Biden administration
(07:57):
because he would prefer to deal withDonald Trump. Uh, and that's why
he made that claim this week aboutnot getting arms. Do you believe there's
any truth to that? Absolutely?And who simply has not seen I too
eye neither with the President Barack Obamacertainly doesn't say I too I with the
President Biden. Albeit, President PresidentBiden has demonstrated an incredible, incredible unpresidented
(08:20):
support of Israel to do Israel,especially just imagine flying going to Israel in
the midst of the war. There'sno president has done before. Yes,
So who does prefer to to dealwith with the with the former President Trump?
Because Trump, you know, hasbeen pretty much manipulated by data when
(08:41):
he was president first for example,persuading him to withdraw from the Iran Deal,
which was a disaster for Israel.To tell, so, President Trump
that doesn't have really long term visionabout the Middle East. No, don't
rock conversion about the Israeli Policenian conflict. President Trump does what's field or what
is best for himself for him andnot not really necessarily caring about what Dtina
(09:05):
wants to or wants to do.So the two and may in some ways
see I two I if that isgood work to happen, I think it's
going to be disastrous for Israel.Doctor ben Meir, thank you so much
for your time. It's my pleasurean thank you, Doctor Alan ben Mehir,
Senior Fellow at the World Policy Institute. This has been a podcast from
(09:28):
w o R.
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