Activist Tamika Mallory Talks Overcoming Addiction in Memoir, How to Combat DEI & More

Activist Tamika Mallory Talks Overcoming Addiction in Memoir, How to Combat DEI & More

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Five point one, the amazed by the way the flyest
civil rights activists in the game and author to make
the mallories in the building today.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Pretty you are.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
I know people don't usually lead with that, but like
it is not to be ignored.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Thank you. You know, this is the first time I've
been in this studio on this show.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
I'm I l if you.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Did the podcast I did that, which was one of
the most amazing interviews I've ever, ever, ever ever participated
in and one of the uh, the most feedback that
I've received. I love that contacted me saying, oh my god,
I didn't see other interviews, but this one. They were like,

(00:57):
this is deep, Like this is beautiful.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
The thing when we did the you know, you had
opened up about things in your life that you really
hadn't spoken about public.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, you were like in the first group people that
I started.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
I wondered if expressing that helped open I know it
was a couple of interviews you did, but if that
talking about it kind of opened up the idea to
want to share this car with me.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
People. And by the way, you'd be surprised of the people.
You wouldn't be surprised because you're in the industry. So
you know, I started getting calls from people that were like, hey,
you know, I'm just wondering what did you do, Like
what was the process of rehab? Yeah, going to rehab?
Like what I just want to take somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
But before we go to that, because people might not
have seen our interview or you talking about it.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
But like to Mike A. Mallory in the throes of
her being this, you were a big figure.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
You still are, but I'm just saying you were in
the Women's March and just many in many moments and
many important moments.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
I appreciate that you acknowledged that it wasn't just Women's March,
but some people feel like that was the beginning my career.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Oh god, no, oh god, no, no.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
You are one of the people that if you're paying attention,
you should be looking to and looking for answers to
and when shit happens and we want to know who
who's directing us at where to put our resources and
our effort in our time. You have been one of
those leaders for quite some time, and so to know
that you were leading in that way and also then
hit a roadblock where addictions sank in right and The

(02:25):
addiction came from you not being able to process probably
some of the grief and the numb and the trauma
and all the stuff that comes with living the life
that you live at that time.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Sleep deprivation mixed with anxiety, extreme anxiety that I did
not know how to manage. And then you mix those
two things with people calling me everything under you know,
I was every name. If it was hate of a group,
I was the one. If it was, you know, selling
black people out because I was working with white women.
That was you know, on me everything, all the things

(02:55):
you could think of, and the stress of you know,
raising money, bringing a big intersectional group of people who
all have issues, different things that they care about together.
It was it was already a lot not to mention,
adding the attacks on top of it. And so, you know,
I mentioned to a friend one day that I can't

(03:16):
sleep and she was like, oh, well, you know, I
take Xanax and it helps me. And she actually said
that I should ask my doctor about it, but I
don't even remember that part. I just was like, do
you have some She's like, yeah, here, you could take these,
you know. I cut them in half and started taking them.
And then the next thing. You know. I learned that
percocets were even better, and I started taking those, and

(03:38):
then I was up to twenty thirty pills a day. So,
you know, how does that happen?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Though?

Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's a part of a dark hole.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, it's a dark hole.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
And because why are you taking them in the day
if they were supposed to be for sleep. You're just
addicted to them.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Oh no, at that point, you just your body is
now craving it. And then I started to learn that,
oh I could just like check out what the fuck
y'all talk about, right, excuse my lege, No, I feel you,
you know, like whatever y'all talking about in this meeting
that y'all trying to stress me out, I don't even
have to hear it. I could just sit here and
not even see you, right Like That's that was kind
of like how I started to deal with numbing for

(04:11):
the whole day. And I didn't want that to happen
to me having fast, right, it happened so fast, But
I had multiple I had a friend. I was sitting
at dinner with a group of girls one night, and
this young lady had she'd been through it, and she
was like, you know, it's a dark hole and it
doesn't get lighter, it just gets worse, so you should stop.
But at that time, I was kind of like, who

(04:31):
I'm sleeping. I'm feeling a little better, and she's like, actually,
you're not doing well at all if how you're sleeping
is to take pills. So that she told me that,
but of course I didn't listen. I didn't heed the warning.
But it was Jason Williams, the best NBA All Star
forever All Star, who I called trying to act like

(04:52):
I was the third you know, I was a friend like, hey, Jason,
what do you think about this girl?

Speaker 1 (04:58):
I know?

Speaker 3 (04:59):
He let me do it for three times, three calls,
and then finally he said, nah, Like I know it's you.
You need to get yourself together. And he was just
like do you drive? Crazy question? And I'm like, yeah,
I'll drive. Why He's like, you know, you'll be like
in a car and have an accident or something and
they'll find the pills. Like he just hacked this whole story.
I'm like, what can happen to me? And I was

(05:20):
over there like yeah I could. So finally I told
him and Rachel nordon Linger who you know, and Jason
put me in a program and I was in there
under an alias, so I really didn't even have to
tell anybody, but I knew it wasn't my story the whole.
It was really God's story to be told about how
I went down as far as I could go and

(05:41):
I was able to pop back. And you know, in
those dark moments, it feels like you're not gonna make it,
but we're not giving up. We're not giving up. That's
the message.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
There's a testimony in that too, because somebody as strong
as you are, as you know, people think, oh, I
that couldn't happen to me.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, I'm just gonna take this just for.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
This little moment. I know a lot of people, by
the way that think that way.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, and you don't know.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
That, No, it catches you those pills. That's Have you
even watched the films, the two documentaries or DocuFilms that
are out, which is Painkiller and Dope Sick? I think no,
those are those. Sick is on Hulu and Painkiller is
on Netflix. You should watch it. This is a whole
political crime, right because the FDA and the people who

(06:32):
were supposed to protect us as citizens, there was a
man who worked there who was saying, no, he would
not approve the family who is responsible for whichever one
of the drugs, the purpose in whichever name of the drug,
he was not approving it because he's like, it's dangerous,
it's addictive. They took him per this document, these shows,

(06:54):
they took him on like a trip or something. And
the next thing, you know, not only did he approve it,
he left the FDA and went to work for the company.
So like, come on, you know what I'm saying, this
is all. It's all They knew that it was addictive,
and they continue to ignore it, and doctors were getting
paid and getting deals under the table. And the next

(07:15):
thing you know, you have all of these people, millions
of people who are addicted to this drug, to these drugs.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Could you believe that that happened to you?

Speaker 3 (07:22):
I cannot. Can you imagine me with no cell phone
in a rehab facility which was actually a house. It
wasn't like a building, you know, the thing you're going into.
That's what I thought I was going to, like a facility,
but it was actually a house. And I'm in there
in the dark, in a room.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
And you are to make a mountain and I.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
Talk on my phone. I got people, things I'm trying
to going on, you know, and I'm in a room
in the dark, like yo, I can't I can't communicate
with anybody but God, you know. And it was but
it was the best thing to end the story. I
wish it didn't happen to me, but if it was
gonna happen, to be there in that space and have

(08:06):
God as the only person that I could trust and
that I could really talk to in that moment. And
I know everybody's, oh, that's a cliche. No, No, it
was me and God. We was tussling our way out
of this thing. And I just kept saying, God, if
you would just take the taste out of my mouth,
that's all I want. Because when you take the pills,
anybody out there who knows what I'm talking about, amen to.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
I know.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
I understand you putting the pill in your mouth at
different times through the day. It becomes an addiction too.
It's not only how it makes you feel, it's just
the habit, just like picking up your phone, it's what
you do. And so I just needed all of that
to go away. And before I left there, I knew
I was free, So I don't know what would happen

(08:49):
in life. I can't say this or that won't happen
to me because we don't know. Because I love to eat,
I need to start working on that. I'm on the
sugar bad right But I know I'm not going back
to that. I know those pills. That's a closed chapter
that I will never open again in my life. And
that's because God met me in a real dark place.

(09:10):
But now you know, I'm in the light. And it's
my job I know, which I didn't always wait with.
I didn't always want to own it, but it's my
job to make sure that somebody else gets free from
it as well.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, it also gives you a different connection to people
who are in that struggle, in that battle right now.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Absolutely. I mean I've got makeup artists, hair stylists, people
I meet around the country who are like, hey, you know,
quiet moments while they're doing my face or whatever, you know,
I'm going through this or my son or my friend
or my brother, you know, And I just appreciate you
for telling your story if you have any tips, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
So that's beautiful, that's all you know.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
It's worth sharing, right and you talk about how hard
you tell it real quick the story right now, but
in the book, like how that process of coming out
of that and the withdrawal, and.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
There's just you know, the you think, oh, she just stopped,
though I figured out how to stop. But that is
the case.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
And you know, there's so many disparities in our nation
for how people get help because this facility that I
was in, I was the only black person in a
facility where they give you drugs to help you get
off drugs. But the drugs they give you help you
to deal with the pain that enters your body when
you start trying to detox. It is not easy. So

(10:27):
if you have a family member, a loved one who's
out there and you're like, you know, come on, just
like get yourself to get your stock, get strong, like
do it. It's not that simple. It is not that
simple because it cripples you physically before and then you
got to deal with the mental side of it as well.
And there's a lot of shame associated. But I can
tell you that trying to force people to rehab or

(10:50):
to whatever, or even to admit that they have an
issue until they're ready, it's not gonna happen. So it's
got it's on them to make the decision, not the mother,
not the father, and my sister, husband, children, Nobody is
on the person who is suffering with addiction.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, yeah, there's a story about how Yandy was really
there for you at that moment.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
We boo cry off of this particular part. Yeah, she
went to go you know, she is in my audio book.
I do the whole book, and but there are there's
her part. There are three places where I have other
people to write about our experiences together. And Yandy went
to film her part in between something she was taping,

(11:32):
probably filming the show. She's like, I'm a run over
there for two hours and tape my part, and she
called me, like my makeup bruh, Like I'm screaming crying
in the middle of the thing. And you know, I
don't want to give too much away, but if you
are looking, if you just want to open the book
and go to her chapter, I would do that if

(11:54):
I was somebody just looking a file, like what's the part,
because she was there in a place in time when
I really just didn't even know how I was gonna
make it, and it wasn't it wasn't so much the
rehab that was over that part I had already sort
of gotten through somewhat. It was how am I gonna
piece life together again? That's where she met me, you

(12:16):
know what I mean. So God blessed for all the
people who've shown up for me, and many of them
are in this book, and I'm sure it's more to come.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Do you feel like vulnerable sharing all this stuff?

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Hell yeah, yeah, hell yeah?

Speaker 2 (12:27):
You know, do you feel free or do you feel nervous?

Speaker 3 (12:30):
Like so, my release day is the same day that
Nelson Mandela was freed after twenty seven years of captivity.
Didn't know it, didn't plan, It just happened to be
on that day, And I'm like, wow, Like God, imagine
the possibilities. Imagine that that this man here, he is

(12:52):
stuck in bondage, if you will, and he got free.
So now I'm free because I just believe that nothing
happens chance, that it's all designed, and because this is
like God. It wasn't like the publishers said, oh this
is the day, what February eleventh is gonna be? You know,
it just happened to be that way, And so I'm

(13:13):
just owning that as something a powerful force to say
that this book has given me freedom. But it's not
easy to have people all up in your business. It's
hard for my parents to deal with. It's stuff in
here they didn't know, and now they're having to read
in real time. I don't even curse in front of
my parents unless I'm telling the story and I'm still

(13:33):
spelling the word you know what I mean. I'm still
like s H, I T, mom, he said, s T.
And I'm forty four years old. So in this book,
I'm like saying all the word relationships to the sexual,
sexual saw, all of that's in here, and I'm like,
oh god, I hate for my dad. I'm like, don't

(13:53):
read it, just put it on the shelf as all right.
But they're actually almost at the end of the book.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
You're gonna have like a little family meeting at I.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
Did it before the book was even in their hands.
When I was writing. It was a chapter that I
wrote about and I said, I can't, I can't. I
have to tell them this is gonna be tough because
it was tough for me. I cried a lot, and
the woman who was helping me write the book shout
out to Audrey out there listening. She and I both

(14:21):
had to stop, like we just couldn't even finish that day.
It was just too much. Wow. And so so I
knew that. And the story ends with me walking into
my house and my dad not knowing that four guys
almost raped me. And I was like saved from the
situation by the mother of one of the guys. I

(14:42):
walked past him. He has no idea that I'm like
in the house crying, you know, scared. Imagine that I
hate to bring that up and put him. It's tough,
you know, and I know he's hurting to you know.
And he told my sister, this is really tough for
me to know that these things was happening to my daughter.
But here's the one thing. They told me not to go.
They told me not to do this stuff. They tried

(15:04):
to say, don't go over here, don't try to save you,
And I didn't try.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
To save you. God bless them, God bless your parents. Man.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
All right, So what do you hope that people get
from this book right here, Tobika.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Well, you know, it is a story of resilience, and
I truly do hope that somebody who's just trying to
figure out how to navigate life, whether you young, old,
male or female, just our siblings out there in the world,
that you will take this book and say, Okay, she
did it, I can do it, like it's not that bad.
There is another side, because I didn't know there was

(15:40):
another side. I just thought, Okay, the newspaper said I
was done, right, like they made a determination that I
made this misstep and some people didn't like it, and
they just they said book close, chapter over, She's out.
And then I continue to progress and think great things
have happened for me. In fact, there's been something that
have happened, like two books, right Who knew? Who knew

(16:03):
that that I would meet Charlemagne and Black Privileged Publishing
would pick up these books and pick me up as
a as their first in their first book on their imprint.
Who knew that that would happen to me? After I
thought I was done, you know? And so what was
the moment though?

Speaker 1 (16:20):
That was it the March that I know, you talk
a lot of stuff about the March, how dark that
was for you, But what was the moment where you
were like, I'm this is this is over?

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah? It was the March. I mean you know, but
the whole time, or just a damn there from day
one to day ending, because there was always something. It
was either that we didn't involve the right people, or
you know, there were a lot of people who joined
the Women's March because they were upset that Hillary Clinton
didn't win. They not that they were upset that a fascist, racist,

(16:53):
sexist thing was about to happen. They were just upset
that Hillary Clinton didn't win. And so that was a
big thing that people were pissed off that we weren't
honoring her properly. But that was never what the march
was supposed to be about, at least when we got involved.
It wasn't. Then there were people black women who said,
why do we want to march with white women because

(17:14):
they are the cause of this, Like why we black
women got to go out there and march with them?
Let them do their own thing. And the white women
who were initially called for the march, white women who
initially called for she used the name of a march
that happened with black women twenty years prior, excuse me,
twenty years prior. So there was some appropriation issues there

(17:37):
which I don't know that it was intentional. I just
think that's just what happened. And so then we had
to change the name. So that was drama. Then the
next thing was that, you know, Bernie Sanders was gonna
be Then they were like, we don't want the men.
That was drama. You know, every step of the way,
the LGBTQIA community didn't feel like they were being properly represented.

(17:57):
Jewish women were upset every week. There was a problem. So,
you know, and I'm not saying that I wouldn't do
it again. I would do it again, even knowing everything
that I went through up what I make some different decisions, sure,
but I would definitely do it again. But to get
to the midway point and have people just identify me

(18:18):
as a hater of different groups of people just because
I went somewhere that they didn't like, that was hard.
And you know, eventually there was like a determination from
the media, which is the worst place for you to
ever look at yourself and try to measure your success
by what they're saying on the internet. That's like awful.

(18:39):
You know, it'll kill you every time because it builds
you up to tear you down. But it wasn't just
what they were saying in the media. It coincided with
the fact that every single speaking engagement that I had
was canceled. Now you have to imagine that I was
speaking in white women's their living room for twenty five

(19:00):
thousand dollars, right, getting paid that type of money, doing
it four and five times a week, to tell them
all the list of things that's wrong with how they
operate in the world and why we ended up in
the situation we were in, which was the beginning of
Donald Trump's first presidency. So you know, I'm going around
the country being myself, not changing the message, not doing

(19:22):
any of that, which is probably what got me in
real trouble because you know, I'm sure there was like
a husband somewhere who was like, what the hell is
this going on there in the in the house, all
huddled up, you know, talking about women's rights. Been yeah,
you know, So that was another thing. So then all
of it was canceled. College students were like, we're trying
to bring you to the campus, but there are students

(19:45):
protesting and saying they don't want you here. We have
to cancel the event. Speak as bureau trying to take
my photo off of the off their website, but leaving
up people who have made super racist comments or we
were fighting that getting lawyers in involved. All of this
is happening to me, and I have no money period.

(20:06):
My son is away in school, he's in college. I'm like,
I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know if
I'm gonna be able to continue to pay your tuition.
Like all of this happens to me. That's a lot.
That's a lot. That's a lot. It's a lot, for sure.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
But people are there. That was probably the first time
you really had to be vulnerable and ask for help
right now. I talk about it in the book.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
I had to hit people up like yeah, a lot
of people showed up for you, but they were like,
first like, is this you for real? I'm like yeah,
So that was you know, it was a it was
a tough time, but everybody showed up. People came God,
he girl, God, God shows up for you. Sending stuff,
just sending stuff that I'm like, oh my god, Okay,
this this and this. But you have to kind of

(20:46):
go into you gotta get quiet in order to hear
where you're supposed to be going and who are your
real people and it was a purge because now all
those folks like they're out of my life, and I'm
in a space where, even though it gets hard, I'm
not sitting here saying everything is figured out. No, I'm
still every day hustling trying to figure it out. But

(21:09):
I'm in a much better space than I was, thank God.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
But the ups and downs of that, She's just giving
you the outline, by the way, right, Yeah, the ups
and downs of that are definitely in the book you
talk about. We have to talk about some current things
that are going on while I have you in the building.
First of all, because you do talk about Jay's deal
with the NFL that really initially connected you to them,
right you read the book. Yeah, it's a good detail.

(21:36):
These are the details you will find in the book
in that moment. Yeah, And I find that interesting because
a lot of times I think, and it's sad because
it's it's like, you could have the heart to be
wanting to do something, you believe something is right, but
the optics of things are really important. Absolutely, no matter
how good or pure your heart is, no matter how

(21:59):
you believe that something that you're doing is good for people,
if the optics.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Are wrong, it's gonna get you dragged.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
And you get your number wanted to get you dragged,
and it could sometimes stunt also the progress because whatever
I feel like in that moment that some of that
was happening.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
Oh, I definitely happened. I mean they had to do
some some real damage control work there at Rock Nation
to make sure that people understood what was what was
the goal of Jay working with the NFL, right like
that that had to happen. And you know, when I
so I tweeted or posted on Instagram or whatever, somebody

(22:43):
tells J to call me because I didn't know him enough,
you know, just in passing, but I didn't know him enough.
But I'm like, I need to hear directly so that
before I get on the side of you know, with
the Twitter thumbs like what the hell is going on?
Jay Z sold out Conna Kaepernick.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
But you know, before.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
I go doing that, I'm gonna do it differently because
it had just happened to me. So if it had
not been for the fact that I'd just gone through
a situation where people were ripping me to shreds based
upon somebody else's words or this or whatever, somebody who
said I said, angry. I was, I was experiencing it.

(23:22):
So I'm like, okay, let's do this different. Don't go
up there posting stuff and making statements. Ask I just
put it in in the universe. Somebody tells jay Z
please to call me, and sure enough, it wasn't even
an hour. Several people were like, hey, you know, call
this number right now, and that's how I got to
speak to Desiree, and then of course Jay and the

(23:43):
whole thing, and then we you know, it's well, first
of all, that they knew, they understood that there was
a hole in the movement, like people were always asking
them for money, to help them with things, help them
with you know whatever. Families who lost their loved ones,
they still I think to this day, I'm pretty sure.
Maybe not, but I'm pretty sure they do support Sean

(24:05):
Bell's family to make sure that their kids had a
college fund and other things that they need. So they've
been doing all of that. They just don't you know them,
They don't talk about it, you don't know, but they're
involved in all types of things. Sure, and so eventually
you got to find out, like where's this money coming from?
Because we can't just deplete ourselves trying to give, give,
give to all these causes. It's so many of them.

(24:27):
So one of the things that they said was that
the relationship between the NFL and Rock Nation was going
to give them the ability to help people do their work.
And they immediately went off the ground. They were like, Okay,
we're gonna help you guys. We were outside of a
detention center in Brooklyn where there was no heat and
hot water in December or February, I think it was

(24:49):
like the coldest day of the winter, and the incarcerated
folks were like banging on the walls. They were freezing,
people were sick. Somebody set a fire. It was like
a disaster us and we were out there in the cold,
standing out there, and they said when Dez got in
touch with She's like, first of all, let's get us
an RV because we're not gonna just have y'all out

(25:10):
in Nicole and we're gonna get y'all some groceries and
different things like that. I don't remember if that was
after NFL or not whatever, but yeah, it was after.
But nonetheless they helped us in that way. Then they
put a council together, which is the United Justice coalition,
a whole bunch of folks that are different types of
people doing amazing work. Amazing work or groups like mine,

(25:34):
grassroots groups, families who've been impacted, who have foundations, sitting
at a table working on issues together. We work together
on the Kansas City, Kansas issue, where the officer had
been raping black women and other black and blawn women
and other people in underserved communities. He had been raping
them for years. This was going on years, putting their

(25:58):
children in prison if they even dare to tell anybody
what was happening. He was terrorizing the community and the
police department knew about it and did absolutely nothing. Now
he has since taken his life because he was facing
prison time. He was going to trial as an old man.
But he traumatized families, and these were the types of
things that they said, we're gonna use the resources that

(26:21):
we get from the NFL to partner with you all
and do these projects. That was really intriguing to me
because I'm not saying that we won't take people's money.
We want it because you guess what, we're consumers. So
like the NFL doesn't make money without us, as black
folks and other people going to games, supporting supporting their players.

(26:44):
So yeah, give us. We want the money. It's okay,
it's nothing wrong with taking the money, but we're not
gonna take it and allow you to put stipulations on
what we can say and what we can do.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
I'm surprised that they agreed.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
Oh yeah, I mean yeah, so well, you know, so
they but I think that was because of how their
the deal was set up. It was set up clearly
to say we're going to support social justice groups, and
they did that work. And you know, we worked with
the NFL for a while and and that's it. I mean,
you know, it's not a big story. It's just like

(27:17):
that's what they did. They connected us together, but nobody
ever got in our business. They didn't tell us, oh
you can't talk this way. They're just like sometimes des
will be like what did y'all say? Like what explain
it to me? Because I don't know what y'all got
going on? But somebody called me, so what is happening?
It's like, you know, this is the deal. Even if
even if they don't agree, they still are not going

(27:38):
to tell us that we can't stand up for what
we believe in. In the ways that we see fit.
So that's that, that's what it's been. People looking for
this story. They could go right about. It's really pretty simple.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
You know, they're supporting you, they're.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Supporting our work and making sure that until Freedom and
other groups like ours. And it's not like a handout
situation because you can't just call over there and draw
down money. It ain't that kind of deal. You really
got to be doing something that that can be measured
like where did it start and where does it end?
And I you know, I appreciate that. It makes you better,
it makes you stronger, sharpens your your tools.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
What did you think? Were you at the Super Bowl
this year? No, no, no, I knows.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Still not on that list. I'm not on a lot
of lists. But I'm still I still kind of stand
in solidarity with Colin and I don't really watch the
games and all of that. Still na I ain't going
to smooth smoothly smooge. But but you know what, I
bet with Roger Goodell, and I mean this was a man.
And also shout out to sister Dasha who works up there,

(28:44):
you know, and I saw a man who understood. He
was really clear, like I get it. This issue is
important to you, and we're going to be helpful as
much as we can. It wasn't just me, it was
a bunch of people. We're gonna be helpful in ways
that we can't. But they're not activists, so you know,
I didn't have any expectation of them to just change

(29:05):
all of their business practices to align with with our work.
That's just now what it is. And they know I
will call them out to and we all are clear
about that. So there's everything. But I did watch Kendrick's performance,
and what did you think? I thought it was incredible.
It was right. Yeah, he did a good thing, A
good job he did. He really did. I mean, you know,
as with all art, you got to look at it

(29:27):
several times to get all the different Well. I think
a lot of people missed the power of you know,
him speaking to America and where we are, and more
importantly saying, we built this nation like black folks standing
right at the center of it. We built this nation
on our backs for free. And I you know, I

(29:49):
feel like that resonated with me a lot. It also
resonated that he didn't have a bunch of folks up
there shaking and you know, clothes off and all of that, Like,
sometimes we could do that, love the clothes off, Shaken
might not know that I'm in that, But sometimes we
ain't got to do it, you know, we didn't. Sissa

(30:10):
didn't have to like wear a little mini skirt and
shake a booty and if she wanted to, I would
support it, but she didn't have to. So he showed
that our hip hop is not one dimensional. It has
many sides, and being a lyricist still matters, like having
actual content and not just no no no no no no,

(30:32):
Like he actually has words that matter and hits the soul.
So it was really good to me.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, And when you think about like the whole NFL
thing and Jay thing, take take the work and stuff aside,
just watching that performance, I was just like, if it
was not Jay greenlighting this, this doesn't happen in America,
we would never have seen this, not especially Jay put
himself in a position in his life to be able
to be the person that decides this was going to be,

(31:00):
this what's gonna be?

Speaker 3 (31:01):
We wouldn't have that would have nobody would have.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Made that decision.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
No, no, most people would have been afraid to even
ask or even suggest or say this is what's gonna be.
They would have been like, we can't do this. It
can't be all black people. We gotta add some you know,
some white folks in there. You know, it can't be this,
can't be that. He can't say these things, can't do
that song. You know, can't have Serena, no one understanding
the history of of you know, her relationship to the

(31:26):
whole thing. They would say, that's just too much for us.
We can't do it. And so I thought, you know,
I knew I could see how like Jay's like, yeah,
do that be as black as you want to be?
It was a black moment. It was a black moment,
and I could see how it came together. So yeah,
I thought I thought it was great. I thought it

(31:47):
represented us well. And I also think it requires people
to go deeper than a jingle, you know, because we
love a jingle. You could sing due, you know, and
when it didn't happen, it was like this what is this?
But this are you gotta go back and look again,
Go watch it again again. I watched it again last night.

(32:08):
You did the whole thing louder and like sat with it,
and wow, it was really powerful. Samuel Jackson SAMs. The
performance he does his part is so powerful. If you
didn't hear what he said, go back and watch it again.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Word, go back and watch it again, and also get
to make his book. I live to tell this story book. Yeap, yes, right,
you filled out our question. Here shall we go through
this real quick? This is fun time. This is fine,
the fun with Tamika. I like to sometimes.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
I like to have fun with you because you know
it gets heavy.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Do you have things that you do for yourself?

Speaker 3 (32:48):
I love having fun?

Speaker 2 (32:50):
You do, rad Are you making it a priority for yourself?

Speaker 3 (32:53):
No? Just have a good time on I r L.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
I asked you what how we could support you what
you needed, and you said a husband.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
No, I don't want one right now.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
No, you changed your mind.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
I need one, but just not right now. Okay, in
the spring, maybe around summer time. I like to pop
out for my birthday, for your birthday. Then after that
you take applications. Yes, okay, God, there's so much going
on to Mecca. First of all, let's go through your
thing here? Anything cute here? We need to sell what
is your name? To Meka Mallories, just as some brands.

(33:22):
You know, this is the in Real Life questionnaire. Your
favorite go to song SWV wee Yes? Do you karaoke?

Speaker 1 (33:29):
That's what I said? What I just said, Oh you
go to karaoke song? Yeahs s w V week. Do
you body that singing it downey? I know who and
who the ad libs everything. That's my chance?

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Is there? Choreography?

Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah? Well no, I just you know, by that time,
I've probably had a drink or two. So I'm like, swaying.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
What is your superpower?

Speaker 3 (33:53):
Mmm? I say convening people, convening groups to do powerful things.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
You're an organizer, organizement. Who is your celebrity crush?

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah? I was gonna write a real live person, And
I told Serena, who's here with me? She handles my
press and she's and so you said, I said a person.
We're not gonna say that. No, I have to know
the person. We're not putting that here because Angie will
go calling the person right now, like, do you know
what happened today on my show? I said, let's put

(34:25):
somebody who's gone on the glory. Okay, I chose Tupac
leave it alone because I know any person current calling.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Them now, I have to know I'm gonna okay, but
even Tupac, you you are too young.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
You never met him, right.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
It's not true.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
You didn't.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
When I was in elementary school, they were shooting whatever
film he was in that was in Harlem on Amsterdam Avenue.
It was a juice. It must have been juice. In fact,
it not must have been It was juice for sure.
They used my lunchroom cafeteria for their lunch for their breaks.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
And you know we just I was little, like hi,
you know, I saw him on TV. He was so fine,
so fine. I must have been nine or ten years old,
which is the only time I ever met him in
my life.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
You did meet him.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
I met him all the He came around. You know,
the kids were like going crazy in the lunch room,
and he came around and spoke to different people and
you know, shook our hands and stuff, did some high
fives with the boys. It was super cool. And he
also threw the football because you you know, we went
right outside on that street and every you know, that's
where we had recess, and he came and he threw

(35:44):
some footballs and had fun with the kids.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
So I was like, you know, it just came to me.
Is that famous Tupac saying where he says he might not.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Change the world, but he was spark the brain and
the person that could change that could have been a
little baby to.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
That classroom. I wasn't looking at him for no change
in the world, even at eight years old. Even at
eight years it wasn't about changing no world. Honey. I
could say I was eight and I was like, oh man, yeah, Tupot.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Oh my god, that is too funny. What is your
bucket list?

Speaker 3 (36:19):
What's on my bucket list? What did I say? All?

Speaker 2 (36:22):
I said to visit as many countries in Africa as possible.
That's a good one.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
That's the one.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
What is your pet peeve?

Speaker 3 (36:30):
People and things that are unsanitary? I cannot take it.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
We're not doing that.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Uh huh. I don't like that. Dirty stuff is not
my thing.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
And the last thing that sent you down a rabbit.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Hole, oh my podcast. I'm trying to figure out how
to get it right on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
The podcast is so good, by the way, everybody know, we're.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
On at the tea on my show. That is our podcast,
and we've made some changes upgraded and you know, and
we're pouring out all into the podcast, like we're really
into it now, not to say that we didn't love
it before, but we have so many things going on
that it was like third or fourth in line. Now
it's like our first thing. We're really like planning and

(37:11):
intentional about guests. And you know how hard it is
to book.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
No, I know, it's my most challenging things. That's the
most pain in the ass.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
But you guys don't need a guest.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
So we talk to each other a lot and it works.
But there's certain things we don't know, and that's the part.
It's like we just won't don't want to be sitting
up there pontificating on issues we don't know what we're
talking about. So we do make sure we have people
that are actually experts in different areas.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
That's all I want to see from you guys.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
I want to know we don't focus on celebrities. In fact,
our celebrity interviews have not been the highest rated. I
love that.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
No, I totally believe that before you go, because there's
all this talk about what we should be boycotting, what
we should.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Be doing and not doing.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
This di thing is you talk about in your book
to how that has affected your life in terms of
your family's life.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
I don't know what is your what are what are
people's marching orders?

Speaker 3 (38:07):
I think that DEI is one or let me make
sure that I say, because I've been telling myself and others,
let's not use the acronym DEI because it takes away
from the power of what we're talking diversity, equity and inclusion,
Like why is like if that's an issue, why does
do you have a problem with that? If that's an issue,

(38:28):
that's a problem, Like it shouldn't even be a thing
that we're talking about rolling back initiatives for diversity, equity
and inclusion. So but I think that this moment is
tied to a higher unfortunately, a higher calling for all
of us that we're gonna have to use these moments
to say I'm not gonna shop with certain brands, or

(38:50):
you know, I'm gonna hold my money, or I'm gonna
support more black businesses. We're gonna have to use that
as an opportunity to get ourselves disciplined and ready for
the fight that we will go through for the next
four years. And so black women, brown women, white women,
whoever it is, go to Target and spend full five
hours walking those aisles looking down. It's our piece. We'd

(39:13):
be in there buying stuff we don't need. There's a
woman in my comments section who said that she closed
her Target credit cards since this diversity, equity and inclusion
thing happened. And she spent forty six thousand dollars in
Target over the last twelve years, forty six thousand dollars
over and she said, and now I'm sick to my stomach.

(39:34):
I will not go in there. I'm not purchasing anything
from them at all. That didn't come from us. It
came from the people. And when the people are ready
to rise up, you, as an organizer, are are there
to help shape it, make sure there are real demands,
their clear goals, get people together.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
I was gonna ask you that what are the demands
have you? Has anybody spoken to like, yeah you.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Have oh no, no no.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
The head of Target hasn't because they should.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
No no no, But I'm the stock has continuously dropped,
so we ain't even got to argue. We're just gonna show.
We ain't gonna talk, because I think that when you
hit one, others will start being like the people, upset
they hold in their money. We got two trillion dollars.
As black people, we would be I think they say,
the twelfth richest nation in the world if we just

(40:26):
live by ourselves. Can you imagine that? Why we don't
see ourselves as investors? Why don't we see ourselves as
stakeholders in these companies? So one of the things that
they did when you talk about the demands, and you
can go to targetfast dot org. That's targetfast dot org
and you can see a bunch of stuff. But one
of the demands is that they decided that they're not

(40:48):
going to report to the Human Rights Commissioned report Card,
which says, you know, how many people do you have
people of color, women your employees? Like that's what the
report card has been about holding corporations accountable. They say
they're not doing that anymore. Why why would you not
want people to know where you stand except that you

(41:09):
are able to go back to being what most corporations
started out as, all white, all male. That's what you're
trying to do because otherwise you be proud to report
and say we're doing all these wonderful things. We think
they should restore that. Absolutely. We also know that they
committed to two billion dollars by twenty twenty five, which,

(41:29):
by the way, this twenty twenty five is ending in December,
so we've got what eleven months before the year is over.
Did you spend the two billion dollars with black owned
businesses and women and you know, other diverse groups. Why
haven't we heard a report on what happened. We're not stupid,
So we're asking questions, really to understand what's the trajectory

(41:51):
of where you all are going? So when you ask,
as he called me, he may not, but guess what
he's gonna be calling somebody soon. Don't worry and their
other demands, they're a lot to go through. You know.
I think another thing is that we do need our
own distribution networks. We have to have to use this
as an opportunity to build our own right. We always
talk about that, but I think this current federal government

(42:15):
is going to force us to have to take better
care of one another. And we think that they should
be pouring money into our banks and allowing us to
have opportunities to build that because guess what, we're not
asking for handouts. Angie. People seem to think that this
is all about, like you know, you're begging why you
want to beg them people for their stuff. It's not

(42:35):
their stuff. We buy the product. It's not money. We're
not asking the government for free things. We pay taxes.
We deserve to have the money that we spend circulate
back into our communities. We are not asking anybody to
give us free stuff.

Speaker 2 (42:52):
Right, It's not a handout. It's not a handout. Yeah,
do you how do I know? We have to wrap
this just it makes me.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
The whole Target thing makes me sad because there's so
many women that we.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
That's a spot. Now, it's a spot.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
But I like you know products. Yeah, Tabitha, Tabitha young
man Maxwell.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
I think of them in these moments like this must
be a challenge, This must be very challenging for them
to be inside and this be happening.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
This is the time to fight. You get together with
other business owners. Target did not even respect the business
owners enough to call them in advance and tell them
that this change, this shift was gonna happen and be
announced to the public. So they have impacted the bottom line.
We didn't do that as consumers. They did that to them.

(43:43):
Their business partner disrespected them and broke the contract, the deals,
the deal terms. They broke it because they entered a
relationship with certain morals and values in place. And it
guess what if one of those business owner goes out
right now and gets drunk and drunk driving kills somebody.
I bet you those those products won't be on the shelves.

(44:05):
I bet you they would pull it because you've done
something that now we can't be We can't be in
exactly right. So why don't we feel we have that power?
We have to be able to flex it because I
promise you, the time that we bring one corporation to
their knees, the rest of them gonna say maybe this.
Maybe we can't be listening to Donald Trump because he

(44:26):
getting us in trouble. We will not die without target.
Trust me, you will not die.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
All right? You see what I did? Brought it back
to ken last absolute last. We gotta go.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
First of all, get the book I Live to Tell
the Story Tamika D.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Mallory.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
It's in bookstores, Black Privilege in print publishing. Shout out
to Charlemagne. And the last thing is that Women's History
Month is coming. Yes, leave us with something, leave us
something that we should aspire to want to see, or
do you know for women's history.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
I'm not. I'm gonna tell you just like this, we're
gonna stick with the same thing. Ladies. If you don't
feel respected, keep your money in your pocket. That's all
i'm gonna say.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
There is Spaka bagory everybody.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
Thank you. Angie's probably five point one