Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station.
It's staff management or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, you'll finding out with Pete and the Poet Gold.
I'm Peter Leonards and I'm the poet Gold, and we're
on the air this morning Up with Poetry. Lord Mike
Djerkovic is going to be I'm telling you about his
new collection called Monaise Bamboo, but that doesn't happen til
the week the poem prayer incantation by the poet Gold
happens right now.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Well, I'm going to continue to celebrate Poetry Month by
reading poems from other poets, and since we have Mike
Jakovic here today, I'm going to read something that you
wrote for the preface and Mightier the book that I
edited for CAPS. Poets are people too. We rise in protests,
(00:52):
we face the injustice. We reach for the soul and
the dauntless words that follow. The poet gather with their children, peers,
their elders at the barricades, armed with answers, armed with prayers,
but not with absolution. No forgiveness comes from doing right,
stand up, stay, healthy, stay strong. You said that, I
(01:17):
said that, Yes, you said that.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
You put a lot of responsibility on poets, and maybe
anybody who hears that poetry I give us a sense.
First of all, how you got involved in poetry. I mean,
that's not something that everybody leans towards. And how was
you have come to it in such a public way.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well, especially if you want to make a living, you
don't lean towards it. But it started when I was younger.
I was writing stories based on models that my parents
would buy me for good report cards. And then you
all start listening to Dylan, and you're listening to Marvin
Gay and you're listening to Jonny Mitchell, and it's like, wait,
(02:00):
I can do a lot less instead of writing stories
and all these words that I can do a lot
less with If I listened to the rhythms as you
were mentioning music before. If you listen to the rhythms
in your head and you start writing it, it worked.
That's how it worked for me.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I mean, just parenthetically Mike saying I've had the rhythms.
What we were talking about is how I don't hear
the rhythms that I have acted that ability although I'm
I'm good on the words and the meaning. I don't
have that talent. And as poet Worried in Ulster County,
(02:37):
what does that mean to the public? End?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
To you, it means a way to expand the poetry community,
which is something that we've been doing rages now. It
means making people to me anyway, it's the idea that
poetry is just not April okay, National Poetry Month. You
read your sacred texts wherever religion it might be, that's poetry. Absolutely,
(03:05):
you got to say I'm sorry, dear to who your partner.
That's poetry. You're gonna go find a card, You're gonna
it's it's all around us. It's three, you know, twenty
four to seven, nine one one, it's all it's it's
all around us. It's so I want people to begin
to understand that. And if we can make that happen, awesome.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Right right right. You know people always say, oh, I'm
not a poet. I'm saying, yes, you are. You born
a poet? Yeah, everybody you live in poetry this great earth.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah. I mean, I think your word poetry comes from
the Greek word meaning maker, and we're all makers of
sentences at least you know, and and but the poet
is the one who ex sells it, making sentences beautiful,
well more precisely meaningful.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, we're all creators. I mean, whether we're creating on
the Internet and get all the digital likes and dislikes
or whatever, we're all creators and this is how we
do it.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Have you ever not leaned into your website? Says poet,
pundit and provocateur. Have you not leaned into that or
you know, how do you lean into that?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I try to keep I try to keep the poetry
as an activism type of thing, something that you understand
very well and do much better than I do. But
I like it to be conscious. I like the poetry
to be conscious of the times that it's in and
conscious of the positions that we're in. And if we
can make that happen to me, that's great. As far
(04:35):
as being a pundit, I've always written music reviews for
several music magazines that we're here in the Valley, and
I write now for All about Jazz, which is the
third largest jazz website on the internet. So I'm reviewing
albums and concerts and whatever comes down the Pike.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Now you have a new book out. Yeah, I told
us about it, Monet's Bamboo.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It's my latest collect my second collection of haikup. My
first was called Blue Fan Worrying that came out of
it came out on a press out of India. But
Mona's Bamboo came from a visit to Monei's garden and
the water lilies and all that stuff out in Paris,
out in France, and the title Mona's Bamboo just stuck
(05:22):
in my head and slowly but surely I began to
write the haikup around it, and there it is, and
it comes out through caps press, and I'm very proud
of that.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But then Monai is bamboo. I mean, Monai is a painter, right,
and so not everyone knows that, but he was an
imprecious painter. And my senses, you're reacting in the spirit
of another art. I mean, so the painting I have
(05:51):
obviously detonated some sort of creative impulse in you. Am
I right on that?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Or we well, not necessarily the paintings, I don't mean
to cut you off. Not necessarily the paintings though they help,
but you know, impressionism. These haiku are my impressions that
my impressions of the moment, that my impressions of the
Again the times I don't stick to the tight haiku situation.
(06:23):
I do stay to the seventeen syllables and the three lines,
but if you're really stuck to it, it's all about
nature and I don't really do that, okay, so, but.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Just I'm parenthetically saying haiku is seventeen syllables and three lines,
and which I mentioned before, jo, I have a hard
time knowing when one syllable starts in the other ends.
But you on the cover of your book, which is
a very attractive books, there's a picture almost a hyper
(06:53):
real uh photograph of painting uh. And then it's just
as read one of those bimboo and you have a
couple of rowboats on a lake that has bimboo around it.
But the picture is regocably different from what I My
(07:13):
recollection of Monai's style is that the money painting.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
No, that's that's actually Monai's garden in the boats are
in the water lily pond and it's literally I can't
really remember if the whole pond is surrounded by bamboo,
but this section was and we had a nice breezy
day when we were out there that day, and you
could just hear the wind blowing through the bamboo, and
it just stuck in my head. It's pretty much where
(07:38):
it came from.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Mat, I ask you to put you on the spot
and have you share a trouple pieces.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Of Okay, sure give it a shot. Let's not okay,
with all windows closed, the honeysuckle sneaks through into our
kitchen like God's own garden. Wren's feet in hours, grackles crow,
(08:04):
bluebirds fill the sky. Mm hmm, I see, I see
your colors, the late apples, hold the young chill, sumac,
and pine.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So there's a way in which your high in my my,
in my mind, your high KuPS are a translation of
the wind that was blowing in the bamboos. Yeah, i'd say, so, okay,
that's that's pretty cool. And but I mean, since see
why I the photograph on the cover is different, is
(08:41):
a different sensibility than the impression of paintings.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Oh yeah, I mean I didn't want to delve to
you know, I didn't want it to be appeared to
be a chrastick in anything.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Okay, and you but but you explained that very well.
But I I like the idea of you seeing the
garden and what really strikes you sound.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, again, that's hearing the music. Yes, I'm fortunate that
way I got, you know, I get to hear it.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
May you you write a wide range of poetry. And
you all still participate in the jazz otry. Are there
any jazz ootry and explain to people with jazz otry
is well touching up.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yes, Actually, in a strange way, there is. Penny Brody
and I are both jazz DJs at wvk R on
Vassar campus, and we're putting together a student jazz overtry
nice Sunday, April twenty seventh, twenty five, and we're from
between three and six and we're Eric Person's gonna be
(09:42):
with us, the great saxophone player, a good, great friend
here in the Hudson Valley, and we're going hopefully what's
going to happen is we've invited students, both of the
writing courses and the music courses, come on in, let's jam,
let's have some fun, and maybe we make it a
you know, a quarterly thing with the students. I still
(10:04):
do want to get a real jazz overtry together and
bring you back. So we got to work on that.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Oh right, definitely, we'll definitely work on that. If you're
just tuning in, you're listening to finding Out with Pete
and the poet Gold, I'm Peter and I'm the poet
Gold and we're here with Mike Jack Jakovic poet. I
don't know I've have such trouble with that. Today it's
a poet Lauria of Ulster County. And are you the
co founder of CAPS?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yes? No, No, let's say I'm the face of the franchise.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Jimmy originally founded Calling All Poets in nineteen ninety nine
and Beacon at the hell In Center and I was
doing the thing called Voices of the Valley up in
Dutchess County and Ulster and we would constantly cross paths
and cross poets and all that kind of stuff, and
he'd be like, you got to come and join me,
and I'd be like, no, you got to come and
join me. We go back and forth and back and forth,
(10:55):
and we were just like two brothers constantly. And then
I think it was the winter of two thousand and three,
a couple of creative things that I was working on
with other people started to fall by the wayside. He
called me up one morning and said, look, can you
come down to Holland and stick with me? And I
was like, yeah, I'll be there. And I've been there
since twenty twenty, two thousand and three.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It's a wonderful organization that supports, you know, the poets
and poetry. I think you guys been around for over
twenty five years.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Now, that yet last month made twenty six. And the
beautiful thing about it is that you know, and I
hate to say beautiful attached to COVID, but it made
us international, right right, I mean we just our last reading,
we had people from three different continents and nine or
ten different states, from coast to coast. And I can't
(11:46):
beat that.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that was one of the you know,
blessings if one would say that did come out of
a crisis.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, absolutely no.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
So like the phoenix rising from the ashes, you know
that that Poetry Fest, you know, it made poetry Fest
an international brand, you know as well. And then we've
you know, worked together for seven years and with poetry Fest,
and I.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Had the shirt on just the other day Acts Poetry Fest.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Something Poe Cold cooked up or created an international festival
of poetry which made Poughkeepsie the world sensor of poetry
for six hours in a row. Wait, but yeah, you
both mentioned something that you knew about that I did
not know about, and that combination of the word poetry
(12:35):
and jazz, and you might want to explain what that
is and where it's going.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
All right, Well, Jack Carwak and David Amram and Alan Ginsburg,
they were the you know, were they the first I
don't know, were they the first ones to get credited? Yes,
nineteen fifty six, fifty seven am I got up to
play behind Jack Kerouac and there is your first jazz
and poetry again, and then they called the jazz and Poetry.
(13:10):
We've just evolved into jazz jazz poetry. And we've had
several events that Gold has been in on a few
of them with some of the best players here in
the Hudson Valley, and we just have a ball when
we do it. It's a fun night. It's a fun night.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
How does you feel that I have a musical company,
especially jazz? Uh attested to your poetry?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, it's it's I find it free. But as you know,
you know I have a background in lyrics and songwriting,
so uh for me, you know, I created the word poelities.
We have the poem with the melodic structure going through it,
and so so it just it brings that poem to life.
I think even even with individuals who may not have
(13:54):
a musical background, they hear the music, you feel the
groove right, they feel agree to it. They hear that
music and begin to deliver their work in a different
cadence and find that pocket in the music that that
just carries the poem.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
You know, if the poet thinks of themselves as another
instrument instead of a poet. So maybe I'm the second
horn in the in the quartet. Maybe I'm the piano
player at some point and your voice just takes off
from there you get into it.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
That is different. I was not expecting that answer. But Gold,
besides called having a sense of poetry and melody, you
also have a good voice. You can sing, which I
always reg Gold. Don't write anything. You can have a
part where you're singing. But she ignores my insistence. But
(14:51):
when you say, have your poetry be another instrument? So
that requires some spontaneous coming to together with the the
other musical instrument.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Oh absolutely, yeah. I mean the way we do it
is we'll let the guys warm up for ten fifteen
minutes and whatever groove they fall into, it's not okay,
you go first, you go second. This is alphabetical. Whoever
feels that groove of that moment goes up there, blows
their horn and comes down, and the next person goes up.
And it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
And sometimes you may, you know, you may have something
in mind, maybe you heard a groove by Gil Scott
Heron another poet of that time a little later on,
and you may say, you know, give me something like
you know this this pocket here, and most of the
musicians will know something very close to a particular groove
and just you.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Know, yeah, I mean you can go up to the
when we do it, we if someone has the blues
in mind, you go up and say, guys, can you
give me a little blues? And now, these guys are
great and they do it.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So when you say you know you have a certain groove,
grooves don't get written down on paper, do they. Okay,
that's my point. This is a real creative collaboration happening
in front of people.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, it's all spontaneous.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, absolutely, nobody's against that. Yeah, I think some people
would think that it's not possible to do, but you're
both saying it's possible and it's triumphant.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Oh absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
You know the event at Vassar's that open to the
general public or do you know?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I don't, Well, it is a Sunday, so I don't
know if they're going to be letting people, And I
mean we're gonna let the students into the audience and
into the studio. I wouldn't at.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
The students at the studio was in one of the
holes you can come by, Yeah, definitely, definitely, it would
be great.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah. You know, Mike, what are the kinds when you
say you're a pundit? You mean a political pundit or
a an ought pundit.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Well, I'll tell you what. Everybody should be a political
pundit these days. But yeah, I mean I have made
noise that way too, but most of the time it's
writing music reviews and essays. And I'm hoping to do
a second interview with Graham Nash in a couple of
months and I'm waiting to hear back on that.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
So I've mean things like that, How do you I'm sorry,
do you want to how do you see the role
of the poet to today in today's time?
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I think any artist in today's time is has to
be a guiding light. I mean, when you look back
on it, any society that begins to get rocked or
begins to crumble or whatever, always looks to their artists
or some kind of insight, always looks for the artists
to oh yeah, I didn't see it that way, all right. So,
(17:48):
whether you're painting or sculpting, or singing or poeting, you know,
as long as as long as you're bringing the people
to some sort of which you do great. If you're
bringing the people to some form of consciousness about their surroundings,
and either the dire situation that we're in, which I
(18:10):
think most of us would agree we are, or the
beautiful situation that we're in, it's really up to the
artists to do that.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
And the hope absolutely you know that, the hope that
we can we can grow.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Many of our listeners would have a different political point
of view from you, okay, and all what I'm saying
so we don't all agree. And I bring that up
not to be punitive. I bring that up to be
hopeful of seeing the opportunity to talks of people who
might have a different political sensibility.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Absolutely. Yeah, it's a big tent. Come on under, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And can you tell the listeners you know, we still
have more time. But I just want to insert your
website and where they can get the.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Book, Okay. I I kind of got rid of the
website that was mic Jacovid dot com because I started
getting bombarded by Russian things and I I got rid of.
But you can see go up on Facebook it's micro Covid,
kaiku and art that's there. Some of my work is
also up on calling all poets.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
And yeah, that's pulling poets dot nett sorry, and and
Jacovid is spelled j O j u R right.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Okay, oh V I see, okay.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Feel And if you're just tuning in again, you're listening
to finding Out with Pete and the poet Gold and
I'm the poet Gold And once again we're here with
Mike Jakoviduh I got it right, Post Provocateur and Poet
Laureate of Ulster County ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
You know, in the beginning of the show, one of
the first things you referred to was community, and uh,
for you have a sense of how you personally relate
through your poetry to community or any of maybe what
the role of poetry is in supporting or fortifying community.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I think any of the arts fortify the community. But
poetry in and of its own, it should give voice
to people. It should, it should prove, it should prove
the democratization of speech. It's your voice. Your voice is
just as important as mine. I found a way to
(20:29):
express myself. Gold has found a way to express herself.
You found a way to express yourself. And that's the community.
So if someone comes to a reading and says, well,
I don't know how good I can do poetry reise,
but I can play this or I can paint this,
it's the same thing, you know. It's just it's a
(20:51):
matter of realizing what's the word better intent? Maybe I
don't know, yeah, but something like that camp and it
was just calling a little poets. You know, it has
a lovely ring to it, and it's a friendly gathering
of poets, and you make it. I would imagine you
(21:16):
make each other better when you're intensive to each other's poetry.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Oh yeah, I mean we just to give you an idea.
Sometimes not necessarily our first Friday readings because those are
structured around three features in an open mic, but we
do two other events that are more like a salon
type of feedback thing. People get into it. I mean,
it's just sometimes you can't. Sometimes it's more conversation than
(21:46):
it is actual. Hey, I got this poem to read,
or I've got this little limerick I want to do,
or whatever the case might be. And it's beautiful. I mean,
just to give you a brief example, there's this one
woman in Australia. She can cosiders us to be her family.
She goes, I'm closer to you, guys i've never met
I mean, I've met her through zoom and she's she
(22:07):
is not what's the word shamed is not the right word,
but she's not embarrassed to say that we are kind
of like her family. And it's beautiful. I mean, what
is she eight hundred thousand miles away?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I mean, but it's you know, it's it's connection, it's
common ground. Going back to what you, gentleman was speaking
about earlier, it's community. I remember when I was hosting
a Newberg's open mic and someone came to the mic
and said, you know, Gold, I don't consider myself a poet.
I'm not a poet, but I have stuff can I speak?
(22:41):
And I said, well, that's what this is. I said,
what do you think poets do?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
We speak exactly?
Speaker 3 (22:46):
You know, And so it's about holding space for human
beings to be able to say what it is that's
on your mind. And you know, whether it's three lines
of poetry, whether it's a quatrain, you know, whether whichever
way it is, I mean, as long as you're not
sort of doing it with the intent intent to do harm.
(23:07):
You know, that's the general Do no harm, you know,
don't come into a space where you know you want
to do harm. Do no harm and say what's on
your mind.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And I have a question for both of you. I
guess I know obviously you know Gold's poetry more than
I know you as Mike. But Gold is, uh, you know,
has this uh a political part of poetry to you know,
social justice, political perspective? And then she goes, uh, there's
(23:36):
very nature orients is spirituality which happens And I'm just
judging from the poems you read on the air the
hakuz in the cover of your book, that you might
have a similar at least two lines of poetry political
as well as nature of it spiritual.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I'm not going to read any
of the political ones here today, But.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
You're not going to read an if your poetry. You're
immediately gonna let us see through your shirts that you
have a T shirts is tax the rich. Uh So
let me probably with both of you. What's the relationship
between spirituality and politics, Well, the niche of spirituality and uh,
(24:35):
the political I'm going to let.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
You go first to say the same thing to you. Okay,
spirituality and politics, Well, if we had more spirituality in politics,
it would probably work for the people a lot better.
That's a tough wall climb. Yeah, I'm not trying to.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
You know, which which which is different? Sometimes people get confused.
I think of religion and spirituality, you know, and there's
a there's a stark difference between the two because religion
in itself is about power and and and spirituality is
about love. Whether it's an extension of love that you
have for yourself and you're extending to others, and when
(25:21):
when religion is void of spirituality, because it can encompass it.
When religion is void of spirituality, then you and if
you bring it into the political area where it shouldn't
be long religion, but when if it's going to be
there and be void of spirituality, then you have just
peak groups of people who are trying to insert power
(25:42):
over other people. And so so that's that's my thought
about spirituality. You know, you you you carry it. It's
being in tune with with yourself. And also I think
depending upon how aware you are, it's going back to
the book righting going you you use it to overcome
(26:04):
your fears.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
You know, religion.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I think sort of perpetuates in its own way fear.
Depending upon what religion you believe in, you know, it
can perpetuate fear. Don't be the sinner.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
So would it be an accurate as the wrong word,
but be in line with the thinking of both of
you to say that spirituality and express through poetry is
an attempt to cure the temptation to use politics for
power rather than common good.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
M Well, I don't know about that, but I think
I think I don't know about the cure things Yeah,
it's not going to I don't know about curing. I
mean I was, I was going to I was going
to make an equation that if you religion minus spirituality
equals politics as far as curing anything, I don't know
(27:01):
if we can cure Okay, we are for hope, hope.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
I don't the cure anything.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Okay. If I use the word, that's not what I meant.
What I mentioned was minimizing it. In other words, Uh,
the temptation in politics is to use it for uh
personal power rather than public good. Absolutely, and so poetry
in this case, it would be an attemp to mute,
(27:31):
to su mute the attem to the spirituality, to sumute
the power and promote the piece of the spirituality.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Because there's there's a there's an awareness I think when
you're moving to your your spirit your spiritual self, you know,
sort of like the spirit that that a child has.
You don't necessarily have to lose that in life, but
it's the different systems that we create that sort of
removes that in life, and you forget it unless you're
in a crist is when you're an adult, when something happens,
(28:03):
then you become humble, you know, so to speak, and
you become in that process, perhaps more in tune to
your spirituality, until you until you just go back to
the old habits and and maybe not pray in the morning.
You know, before you were praying for God. You know, God,
Please don't this happened again. You start sinning again, right
(28:23):
right right, and you sound on the road of sinning.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I mean, you know, But.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
It's a personal Spirituality is a very personal journey.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Okay, And politics is not. And yet if politics resemble
spirituality more, it would be a better world.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
It would be more universal, it would be about more community.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It'd be way it'd be way more open. We wouldn't
be as divided as we are.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
We wouldn't feel threatened. That sense of fear would not
be the dominant thing. I cannot in a spiritual world,
I can't control you through fear. Yeah, in a political world,
I can certainly control you through fear.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Mike, we only have a minute left. Could you give
us a two or three more of your haikus from
your new book called And Mike just flips through the pages.
There is one haiku at seventeen syllables on a page.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
And here Monett's Bamboo pray the wind. The bird song
of ji Vernie ascends the movement of souls through summer leaves.
The soft air, ripples, curls, shimmers. When sunflowers fall, it
(29:41):
breaks her young girl set it breaks her heart. Young
girl said, when sunflowers fall.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
The movement of souls through some leaves. You're not going
to do better than that.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Possibly one more, one more. The Komo of America goes
on and on unceasingly.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
And on that note, thank you so much for our
listeners for listening to finding out with peating the poel
with Gold. Mike, thank you for being here. I really
appreciate you coming through it.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Thank you, and good luck with the book. I know
it's going to do well. I hope, so yes, yes,
make that happen.
The views and opinions expressed in the following programmer those
of the speaker and don't necessarily represent those of the station.
It's staff management or ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Good morning, you'll finding out with Pete and the Poet Gold.
I'm Peter Leonards and I'm the poet Gold, and we're
on the air this morning Up with Poetry. Lord Mike
Djerkovic is going to be I'm telling you about his
new collection called Monaise Bamboo, but that doesn't happen til
the week the poem prayer incantation by the poet Gold
happens right now.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Well, I'm going to continue to celebrate Poetry Month by
reading poems from other poets, and since we have Mike
Jakovic here today, I'm going to read something that you
wrote for the preface and Mightier the book that I
edited for CAPS. Poets are people too. We rise in protests,
(00:52):
we face the injustice. We reach for the soul and
the dauntless words that follow. The poet gather with their children, peers,
their elders at the barricades, armed with answers, armed with prayers,
but not with absolution. No forgiveness comes from doing right,
stand up, stay, healthy, stay strong. You said that, I
(01:17):
said that, Yes, you said that.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
You put a lot of responsibility on poets, and maybe
anybody who hears that poetry I give us a sense.
First of all, how you got involved in poetry. I mean,
that's not something that everybody leans towards. And how was
you have come to it in such a public way.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Well, especially if you want to make a living, you
don't lean towards it. But it started when I was younger.
I was writing stories based on models that my parents
would buy me for good report cards. And then you
all start listening to Dylan, and you're listening to Marvin
Gay and you're listening to Jonny Mitchell, and it's like, wait,
(02:00):
I can do a lot less instead of writing stories
and all these words that I can do a lot
less with If I listened to the rhythms as you
were mentioning music before. If you listen to the rhythms
in your head and you start writing it, it worked.
That's how it worked for me.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I mean, just parenthetically Mike saying I've had the rhythms.
What we were talking about is how I don't hear
the rhythms that I have acted that ability although I'm
I'm good on the words and the meaning. I don't
have that talent. And as poet Worried in Ulster County,
(02:37):
what does that mean to the public? End?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
To you, it means a way to expand the poetry community,
which is something that we've been doing rages now. It
means making people to me anyway, it's the idea that
poetry is just not April okay, National Poetry Month. You
read your sacred texts wherever religion it might be, that's poetry. Absolutely,
(03:05):
you got to say I'm sorry, dear to who your partner.
That's poetry. You're gonna go find a card, You're gonna
it's it's all around us. It's three, you know, twenty
four to seven, nine one one, it's all it's it's
all around us. It's so I want people to begin
to understand that. And if we can make that happen, awesome.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Right right right. You know people always say, oh, I'm
not a poet. I'm saying, yes, you are. You born
a poet? Yeah, everybody you live in poetry this great earth.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah. I mean, I think your word poetry comes from
the Greek word meaning maker, and we're all makers of
sentences at least you know, and and but the poet
is the one who ex sells it, making sentences beautiful,
well more precisely meaningful.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah, we're all creators. I mean, whether we're creating on
the Internet and get all the digital likes and dislikes
or whatever, we're all creators and this is how we
do it.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Have you ever not leaned into your website? Says poet,
pundit and provocateur. Have you not leaned into that or
you know, how do you lean into that?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I try to keep I try to keep the poetry
as an activism type of thing, something that you understand
very well and do much better than I do. But
I like it to be conscious. I like the poetry
to be conscious of the times that it's in and
conscious of the positions that we're in. And if we
can make that happen to me, that's great. As far
(04:35):
as being a pundit, I've always written music reviews for
several music magazines that we're here in the Valley, and
I write now for All about Jazz, which is the
third largest jazz website on the internet. So I'm reviewing
albums and concerts and whatever comes down the Pike.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Now you have a new book out. Yeah, I told
us about it, Monet's Bamboo.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It's my latest collect my second collection of haikup. My
first was called Blue Fan Worrying that came out of
it came out on a press out of India. But
Mona's Bamboo came from a visit to Monei's garden and
the water lilies and all that stuff out in Paris,
out in France, and the title Mona's Bamboo just stuck
(05:22):
in my head and slowly but surely I began to
write the haikup around it, and there it is, and
it comes out through caps press, and I'm very proud
of that.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
But then Monai is bamboo. I mean, Monai is a painter, right,
and so not everyone knows that, but he was an
imprecious painter. And my senses, you're reacting in the spirit
of another art. I mean, so the painting I have
(05:51):
obviously detonated some sort of creative impulse in you. Am
I right on that?
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Or we well, not necessarily the paintings, I don't mean
to cut you off. Not necessarily the paintings though they help,
but you know, impressionism. These haiku are my impressions that
my impressions of the moment, that my impressions of the
Again the times I don't stick to the tight haiku situation.
(06:23):
I do stay to the seventeen syllables and the three lines,
but if you're really stuck to it, it's all about
nature and I don't really do that, okay, so, but.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Just I'm parenthetically saying haiku is seventeen syllables and three lines,
and which I mentioned before, jo, I have a hard
time knowing when one syllable starts in the other ends.
But you on the cover of your book, which is
a very attractive books, there's a picture almost a hyper
(06:53):
real uh photograph of painting uh. And then it's just
as read one of those bimboo and you have a
couple of rowboats on a lake that has bimboo around it.
But the picture is regocably different from what I My
(07:13):
recollection of Monai's style is that the money painting.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
No, that's that's actually Monai's garden in the boats are
in the water lily pond and it's literally I can't
really remember if the whole pond is surrounded by bamboo,
but this section was and we had a nice breezy
day when we were out there that day, and you
could just hear the wind blowing through the bamboo, and
it just stuck in my head. It's pretty much where
(07:38):
it came from.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Mat, I ask you to put you on the spot
and have you share a trouple pieces.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Of Okay, sure give it a shot. Let's not okay,
with all windows closed, the honeysuckle sneaks through into our
kitchen like God's own garden. Wren's feet in hours, grackles crow,
(08:04):
bluebirds fill the sky. Mm hmm, I see, I see
your colors, the late apples, hold the young chill, sumac,
and pine.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So there's a way in which your high in my my,
in my mind, your high KuPS are a translation of
the wind that was blowing in the bamboos. Yeah, i'd say, so, okay,
that's that's pretty cool. And but I mean, since see
why I the photograph on the cover is different, is
(08:41):
a different sensibility than the impression of paintings.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Oh yeah, I mean I didn't want to delve to
you know, I didn't want it to be appeared to
be a chrastick in anything.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Okay, and you but but you explained that very well.
But I I like the idea of you seeing the
garden and what really strikes you sound.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Yeah, again, that's hearing the music. Yes, I'm fortunate that
way I got, you know, I get to hear it.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
May you you write a wide range of poetry. And
you all still participate in the jazz otry. Are there
any jazz ootry and explain to people with jazz otry
is well touching up.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yes, Actually, in a strange way, there is. Penny Brody
and I are both jazz DJs at wvk R on
Vassar campus, and we're putting together a student jazz overtry
nice Sunday, April twenty seventh, twenty five, and we're from
between three and six and we're Eric Person's gonna be
(09:42):
with us, the great saxophone player, a good, great friend
here in the Hudson Valley, and we're going hopefully what's
going to happen is we've invited students, both of the
writing courses and the music courses, come on in, let's jam,
let's have some fun, and maybe we make it a
you know, a quarterly thing with the students. I still
(10:04):
do want to get a real jazz overtry together and
bring you back. So we got to work on that.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Oh right, definitely, we'll definitely work on that. If you're
just tuning in, you're listening to finding Out with Pete
and the poet Gold, I'm Peter and I'm the poet
Gold and we're here with Mike Jack Jakovic poet. I
don't know I've have such trouble with that. Today it's
a poet Lauria of Ulster County. And are you the
co founder of CAPS?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yes? No, No, let's say I'm the face of the franchise.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Jimmy originally founded Calling All Poets in nineteen ninety nine
and Beacon at the hell In Center and I was
doing the thing called Voices of the Valley up in
Dutchess County and Ulster and we would constantly cross paths
and cross poets and all that kind of stuff, and
he'd be like, you got to come and join me,
and I'd be like, no, you got to come and
join me. We go back and forth and back and forth,
(10:55):
and we were just like two brothers constantly. And then
I think it was the winter of two thousand and three,
a couple of creative things that I was working on
with other people started to fall by the wayside. He
called me up one morning and said, look, can you
come down to Holland and stick with me? And I
was like, yeah, I'll be there. And I've been there
since twenty twenty, two thousand and three.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
It's a wonderful organization that supports, you know, the poets
and poetry. I think you guys been around for over
twenty five years.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Now, that yet last month made twenty six. And the
beautiful thing about it is that you know, and I
hate to say beautiful attached to COVID, but it made
us international, right right, I mean we just our last reading,
we had people from three different continents and nine or
ten different states, from coast to coast. And I can't
(11:46):
beat that.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that was one of the you know,
blessings if one would say that did come out of
a crisis.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Yeah, absolutely no.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
So like the phoenix rising from the ashes, you know
that that Poetry Fest, you know, it made poetry Fest
an international brand, you know as well. And then we've
you know, worked together for seven years and with poetry Fest,
and I.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Had the shirt on just the other day Acts Poetry Fest.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Something Poe Cold cooked up or created an international festival
of poetry which made Poughkeepsie the world sensor of poetry
for six hours in a row. Wait, but yeah, you
both mentioned something that you knew about that I did
not know about, and that combination of the word poetry
(12:35):
and jazz, and you might want to explain what that
is and where it's going.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
All right, Well, Jack Carwak and David Amram and Alan Ginsburg,
they were the you know, were they the first I
don't know, were they the first ones to get credited? Yes,
nineteen fifty six, fifty seven am I got up to
play behind Jack Kerouac and there is your first jazz
and poetry again, and then they called the jazz and Poetry.
(13:10):
We've just evolved into jazz jazz poetry. And we've had
several events that Gold has been in on a few
of them with some of the best players here in
the Hudson Valley, and we just have a ball when
we do it. It's a fun night. It's a fun night.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
How does you feel that I have a musical company,
especially jazz? Uh attested to your poetry?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, it's it's I find it free. But as you know,
you know I have a background in lyrics and songwriting,
so uh for me, you know, I created the word poelities.
We have the poem with the melodic structure going through it,
and so so it just it brings that poem to life.
I think even even with individuals who may not have
(13:54):
a musical background, they hear the music, you feel the
groove right, they feel agree to it. They hear that
music and begin to deliver their work in a different
cadence and find that pocket in the music that that
just carries the poem.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
You know, if the poet thinks of themselves as another
instrument instead of a poet. So maybe I'm the second
horn in the in the quartet. Maybe I'm the piano
player at some point and your voice just takes off
from there you get into it.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
That is different. I was not expecting that answer. But Gold,
besides called having a sense of poetry and melody, you
also have a good voice. You can sing, which I
always reg Gold. Don't write anything. You can have a
part where you're singing. But she ignores my insistence. But
(14:51):
when you say, have your poetry be another instrument? So
that requires some spontaneous coming to together with the the
other musical instrument.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Oh absolutely, yeah. I mean the way we do it
is we'll let the guys warm up for ten fifteen
minutes and whatever groove they fall into, it's not okay,
you go first, you go second. This is alphabetical. Whoever
feels that groove of that moment goes up there, blows
their horn and comes down, and the next person goes up.
And it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
And sometimes you may, you know, you may have something
in mind, maybe you heard a groove by Gil Scott
Heron another poet of that time a little later on,
and you may say, you know, give me something like
you know this this pocket here, and most of the
musicians will know something very close to a particular groove
and just you.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Know, yeah, I mean you can go up to the
when we do it, we if someone has the blues
in mind, you go up and say, guys, can you
give me a little blues? And now, these guys are
great and they do it.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
So when you say you know you have a certain groove,
grooves don't get written down on paper, do they. Okay,
that's my point. This is a real creative collaboration happening
in front of people.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, it's all spontaneous.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, absolutely, nobody's against that. Yeah, I think some people
would think that it's not possible to do, but you're
both saying it's possible and it's triumphant.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Oh absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
You know the event at Vassar's that open to the
general public or do you know?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I don't, Well, it is a Sunday, so I don't
know if they're going to be letting people, And I
mean we're gonna let the students into the audience and
into the studio. I wouldn't at.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
The students at the studio was in one of the
holes you can come by, Yeah, definitely, definitely, it would
be great.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah. You know, Mike, what are the kinds when you
say you're a pundit? You mean a political pundit or
a an ought pundit.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Well, I'll tell you what. Everybody should be a political
pundit these days. But yeah, I mean I have made
noise that way too, but most of the time it's
writing music reviews and essays. And I'm hoping to do
a second interview with Graham Nash in a couple of
months and I'm waiting to hear back on that.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
So I've mean things like that, How do you I'm sorry,
do you want to how do you see the role
of the poet to today in today's time?
Speaker 1 (17:25):
I think any artist in today's time is has to
be a guiding light. I mean, when you look back
on it, any society that begins to get rocked or
begins to crumble or whatever, always looks to their artists
or some kind of insight, always looks for the artists
to oh yeah, I didn't see it that way, all right. So,
(17:48):
whether you're painting or sculpting, or singing or poeting, you know,
as long as as long as you're bringing the people
to some sort of which you do great. If you're
bringing the people to some form of consciousness about their surroundings,
and either the dire situation that we're in, which I
(18:10):
think most of us would agree we are, or the
beautiful situation that we're in, it's really up to the
artists to do that.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
And the hope absolutely you know that, the hope that
we can we can grow.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Many of our listeners would have a different political point
of view from you, okay, and all what I'm saying
so we don't all agree. And I bring that up
not to be punitive. I bring that up to be
hopeful of seeing the opportunity to talks of people who
might have a different political sensibility.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Absolutely. Yeah, it's a big tent. Come on under, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And can you tell the listeners you know, we still
have more time. But I just want to insert your
website and where they can get the.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Book, Okay. I I kind of got rid of the
website that was mic Jacovid dot com because I started
getting bombarded by Russian things and I I got rid of.
But you can see go up on Facebook it's micro Covid,
kaiku and art that's there. Some of my work is
also up on calling all poets.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
And yeah, that's pulling poets dot nett sorry, and and
Jacovid is spelled j O j u R right.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Okay, oh V I see, okay.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Feel And if you're just tuning in again, you're listening
to finding Out with Pete and the poet Gold and
I'm the poet Gold And once again we're here with
Mike Jakoviduh I got it right, Post Provocateur and Poet
Laureate of Ulster County ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
You know, in the beginning of the show, one of
the first things you referred to was community, and uh,
for you have a sense of how you personally relate
through your poetry to community or any of maybe what
the role of poetry is in supporting or fortifying community.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I think any of the arts fortify the community. But
poetry in and of its own, it should give voice
to people. It should, it should prove, it should prove
the democratization of speech. It's your voice. Your voice is
just as important as mine. I found a way to
(20:29):
express myself. Gold has found a way to express herself.
You found a way to express yourself. And that's the community.
So if someone comes to a reading and says, well,
I don't know how good I can do poetry reise,
but I can play this or I can paint this,
it's the same thing, you know. It's just it's a
(20:51):
matter of realizing what's the word better intent? Maybe I
don't know, yeah, but something like that camp and it
was just calling a little poets. You know, it has
a lovely ring to it, and it's a friendly gathering
of poets, and you make it. I would imagine you
(21:16):
make each other better when you're intensive to each other's poetry.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Oh yeah, I mean we just to give you an idea.
Sometimes not necessarily our first Friday readings because those are
structured around three features in an open mic, but we
do two other events that are more like a salon
type of feedback thing. People get into it. I mean,
it's just sometimes you can't. Sometimes it's more conversation than
(21:46):
it is actual. Hey, I got this poem to read,
or I've got this little limerick I want to do,
or whatever the case might be. And it's beautiful. I mean,
just to give you a brief example, there's this one
woman in Australia. She can cosiders us to be her family.
She goes, I'm closer to you, guys i've never met
I mean, I've met her through zoom and she's she
(22:07):
is not what's the word shamed is not the right word,
but she's not embarrassed to say that we are kind
of like her family. And it's beautiful. I mean, what
is she eight hundred thousand miles away?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I mean, but it's you know, it's it's connection, it's
common ground. Going back to what you, gentleman was speaking
about earlier, it's community. I remember when I was hosting
a Newberg's open mic and someone came to the mic
and said, you know, Gold, I don't consider myself a poet.
I'm not a poet, but I have stuff can I speak?
(22:41):
And I said, well, that's what this is. I said,
what do you think poets do?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
We speak exactly?
Speaker 3 (22:46):
You know, And so it's about holding space for human
beings to be able to say what it is that's
on your mind. And you know, whether it's three lines
of poetry, whether it's a quatrain, you know, whether whichever
way it is, I mean, as long as you're not
sort of doing it with the intent intent to do harm.
(23:07):
You know, that's the general Do no harm, you know,
don't come into a space where you know you want
to do harm. Do no harm and say what's on
your mind.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And I have a question for both of you. I
guess I know obviously you know Gold's poetry more than
I know you as Mike. But Gold is, uh, you know,
has this uh a political part of poetry to you know,
social justice, political perspective? And then she goes, uh, there's
(23:36):
very nature orients is spirituality which happens And I'm just
judging from the poems you read on the air the
hakuz in the cover of your book, that you might
have a similar at least two lines of poetry political
as well as nature of it spiritual.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I'm not going to read any
of the political ones here today, But.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
You're not going to read an if your poetry. You're
immediately gonna let us see through your shirts that you
have a T shirts is tax the rich. Uh So
let me probably with both of you. What's the relationship
between spirituality and politics, Well, the niche of spirituality and uh,
(24:35):
the political I'm going to let.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
You go first to say the same thing to you. Okay,
spirituality and politics, Well, if we had more spirituality in politics,
it would probably work for the people a lot better.
That's a tough wall climb. Yeah, I'm not trying to.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
You know, which which which is different? Sometimes people get confused.
I think of religion and spirituality, you know, and there's
a there's a stark difference between the two because religion
in itself is about power and and and spirituality is
about love. Whether it's an extension of love that you
have for yourself and you're extending to others, and when
(25:21):
when religion is void of spirituality, because it can encompass it.
When religion is void of spirituality, then you and if
you bring it into the political area where it shouldn't
be long religion, but when if it's going to be
there and be void of spirituality, then you have just
peak groups of people who are trying to insert power
(25:42):
over other people. And so so that's that's my thought
about spirituality. You know, you you you carry it. It's
being in tune with with yourself. And also I think
depending upon how aware you are, it's going back to
the book righting going you you use it to overcome
(26:04):
your fears.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
You know, religion.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I think sort of perpetuates in its own way fear.
Depending upon what religion you believe in, you know, it
can perpetuate fear. Don't be the sinner.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
So would it be an accurate as the wrong word,
but be in line with the thinking of both of
you to say that spirituality and express through poetry is
an attempt to cure the temptation to use politics for
power rather than common good.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
M Well, I don't know about that, but I think
I think I don't know about the cure things Yeah,
it's not going to I don't know about curing. I
mean I was, I was going to I was going
to make an equation that if you religion minus spirituality
equals politics as far as curing anything, I don't know
(27:01):
if we can cure Okay, we are for hope, hope.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
I don't the cure anything.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Okay. If I use the word, that's not what I meant.
What I mentioned was minimizing it. In other words, Uh,
the temptation in politics is to use it for uh
personal power rather than public good. Absolutely, and so poetry
in this case, it would be an attemp to mute,
(27:31):
to su mute the attem to the spirituality, to sumute
the power and promote the piece of the spirituality.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Because there's there's a there's an awareness I think when
you're moving to your your spirit your spiritual self, you know,
sort of like the spirit that that a child has.
You don't necessarily have to lose that in life, but
it's the different systems that we create that sort of
removes that in life, and you forget it unless you're
in a crist is when you're an adult, when something happens,
(28:03):
then you become humble, you know, so to speak, and
you become in that process, perhaps more in tune to
your spirituality, until you until you just go back to
the old habits and and maybe not pray in the morning.
You know, before you were praying for God. You know, God,
Please don't this happened again. You start sinning again, right
(28:23):
right right, and you sound on the road of sinning.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I mean, you know, But.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
It's a personal Spirituality is a very personal journey.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Okay, And politics is not. And yet if politics resemble
spirituality more, it would be a better world.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
It would be more universal, it would be about more community.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It'd be way it'd be way more open. We wouldn't
be as divided as we are.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
We wouldn't feel threatened. That sense of fear would not
be the dominant thing. I cannot in a spiritual world,
I can't control you through fear. Yeah, in a political world,
I can certainly control you through fear.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Mike, we only have a minute left. Could you give
us a two or three more of your haikus from
your new book called And Mike just flips through the pages.
There is one haiku at seventeen syllables on a page.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
And here Monett's Bamboo pray the wind. The bird song
of ji Vernie ascends the movement of souls through summer leaves.
The soft air, ripples, curls, shimmers. When sunflowers fall, it
(29:41):
breaks her young girl set it breaks her heart. Young
girl said, when sunflowers fall.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
The movement of souls through some leaves. You're not going
to do better than that.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Possibly one more, one more. The Komo of America goes
on and on unceasingly.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
And on that note, thank you so much for our
listeners for listening to finding out with peating the poel
with Gold. Mike, thank you for being here. I really
appreciate you coming through it.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Thank you, and good luck with the book. I know
it's going to do well. I hope, so yes, yes,
make that happen.
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