Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Because you're waking up with fifth inthe morning, kiss let us and on
good morning, Good morning. Ifyou are a true crime person or maybe
you're just nosy, I guarantee youwithin the next forty eight maybe couple of
days from now, could be today, you're gonna hear the name Karen Reid.
Karen Reid trial is huge in Bostonright now. It's like taking over
(00:21):
and of course it's coming up onmy feed, but I know as soon
as this verdict is read, it'sgonna come up on yours. So I
have Catherine Loftis. She's an attorney, she owns her own practice with her
dad. It's called Loftus and Loftusjoining us this morning to really give you
a general overview of what this caseis. Because it is so extensive and
(00:42):
some of the headlines that you're gonnaread, you're probably not gonna believe it
when you read it as to whatis happening. Good morning, Catherine,
Good morning. Thanks for having me. Absolutely so, where would one person
begin with this situation if they cameacross the name Karen Reid know a single
thing? Well, I'll do ashameless plug. My handle is not my
(01:03):
objection on TikTok. I've been coveringthis case as of a local attorney since
last year and actually have a numberof posts and breakdown, so you can
go back there if you want to. But let me give you a little
bit of a spin on what theshort of the story is, because it's
a very involved story, Tiffany,but essentially, Karen Reid is accused of
(01:23):
killing her boyfriend, Officer John o'keef, who was a Boston police officer,
on January twenty ninth of twenty twentytwo. She's alleged to have been intoxicated,
gotten into a fight with him,backed up over him, and left
him to die in the snow.He was discovered the next morning on at
approximately six am on January twenty ninth. Since she has been charged, Initially
(01:46):
she was charged with manslaughter, itwas upgraded to second degree murder charges.
She has retained a very well knownLos Angeles based attorney, Alan Jackson,
as well as a local attorney hehad, David Ynetti. The theory of
the case is that she did nothit John O'Keefe, but in fact she
has been framed by the Canton PoliceDepartment as well as the Massachusetts State Police.
(02:09):
That John actually went into the homeof the lawn that he was found
on, which is thirty four FauRoad, and that he was beaten to
death inside of the house. Sowe have had basically two competing theories presented
at trial. We've been at trialfour nine weeks now. The jury has
had it since Tuesday afternoon, andI have to tell you it has completely
(02:31):
captured everybody here in the Boston areaand we are just waiting on a verdict
at this point. And both storieshave from what I've heard, have you
swing one way one day, youswing another the other, like the competing
stories are both very compelling. They'reboth very compelling, and you know,
(02:52):
it's there's a lot of people arevery entrenched in one side or the other.
There is a group of us,including me, who are in the
middle. And as you said,as testimony came in one day, it
would be strong for the carwallth thenext day would be much stronger for the
defense. And so there's a lotof people who have swayed back and forth.
They're really entrenched. Supporters are inthe what we call here the Free
(03:15):
Karen Reid movement. There are peoplewho camp out every single day outside of
the courthouse. They wear pink andsupport of Karen. You know, there's
a very big movement here. Butthe jury is obviously thinking about it,
and I think they're like the peoplewho are in the middle. You know,
they didn't come back with the verdictimmediately. They've been out for three
and a half days. We don'tknow whether they're going to come back today.
(03:38):
So it seems to be like they'rereally looking through the evidence and trying
to come to adjust verdict. Let'sgive to Cincinnati a taste of some of
the evidence and some of these becauseto go against to just to stand in
front of a trial for nine weekswith seventy plus witnesses and say I believe
the state police, the Massachusetts StatePolice, and the Canton police are framing
(04:00):
me, you have to have somepretty deep, thick evidence for that to
be true. Give us an exampleof some things that have come up a
bunch. So the interesting thing tome is is not a lot of actual
evidence of her being framed, Butwhat we do have is a lot of
funny, strange things that have comeup. So we've had a lot of
(04:21):
people who were in the house thatnight making multiple calls that they claim were
butt dials. They were going toplaces go into a police department at two
o'clock in the morning. And thedefense is a legend that it was to
set up, you know, thealibi and the theory. We have Google
searches. The defense alleged them tobe one was made for how long to
(04:43):
die in the cold? The Commonwealthsays it's at six thirty. The defense
says it's a two thirty. Wealso have an intervening federal investigation that while
this case was pending in state court, all of the witnesses went to the
federal grand jury because they were investigatingthe Canton police department that just choose the
stafe place full potential corruption. We'vehad no decision or conclusion from the federal
(05:08):
granjury, but some of that evidencehas come into the state injury. So
when I tell you, Tiffany,you could not write this story. You
wouldn't believe it if I wrote it. That's how crazy it is. Every
single day with testimony, something newcomes out. Even as we're waiting for
the jury verdict. You know,the information keeps strictening out. It really
is. It really is a wildtrial. And on your social media you're
(05:30):
all in note my objection, bythe way, if you want to look
more into this, like I said, if you're in true crime, and
you've always been, you know,at the forefront saying, hey, someone's
life was lost during this process.But how chaotic this thing has been.
It's really but you know, andthat's the thing were just talking about it
this morning, that there's a victimhere and that's office of John O'Keeffe.
(05:53):
And the story about John O'Keeffe is, actually he has a really special story.
His sister had passed away when shehad a need. His niece and
nephew were I think six years oldand four years old, and then his
brother in law pass away. Sohe was a single Boston police officer living
in the city. He took custodyof these two kids, raised them as
(06:14):
his own, moved to the townof Canton. You know, he's a
really good guy, well respected.It's been there's been a lot of kind
of hate and anger towards the O'Keefe'sfamily because they believe that Karen Reid is
guilty and are in support of thecalm wealth and many people take offense to
that. People who are on KarenReid side and believe she's being framed.
(06:35):
So there's been a lot of unfortunately, there's kind of been some nastiness that
has come along with this, AndI think I'm glad that you mentioned him
because really that's what it's about,and it's about getting justice and figuring out
really what happened to him. Atthe end of the day, this will
most certainly be turned into some sortof documentary or movie in the future.
Let's catch let's catch Sinci up tospeed here for a hot second. If
(06:57):
you're just walking into this, there'sa chance you have no idea what the
Karen Reid trial is. But Iguarantee you when this verdict is read,
it will it will come across yourfeet. And I want to make sure
that you have a general understanding ofjust the complexity of this case that Karen
Reid and is facing. She whatare the charges against her right now?
So she has a second crew murdercharge, then she's also charged with manslaughter
(07:23):
while operating under the influence. Thejury was instructed on two what we call
lesser included offenses, which is theOui homicide as well as an involuntary manslaughter
and the last one is leaven thescene of a serious barley injury or death.
So really, what the jury isfacing now is you either believe that
John O'Keefe was hit by the carin some way, shape or form,
(07:44):
or you don't believe it at all. And it sounds like that's probably the
issue that they're struggling with with threeand a half days out. They got
the jury got the case on Tuesdayafternoon, and you know it hasn't been
a quick verdict. But again,as you said, there were over seventy
witnesses, so much you know,physical evidence, testimony, Google search,
to cell phones, and you knowthey're really sifting through everything that's been presented
(08:09):
the what is it? What happensto a jury right now? You said
there are three days in deliberation.By the way, Karen is facing life
if she gets convicted of that charge. So they're really trying to just decide.
They're trying to decide if he washit by the car or not if
it's an If it's a no,then is she off the murder charge?
Right So, in order to proveher guilty of second degree they have to
(08:31):
prove basically that she intended to eitherkill him or intended to hurt him and
then left him there. Based onthe evidence that I've seen presented, I
think there is almost zero chance thatshe'll be convicted of the second degree.
The manslaughter is a little bit differentbecause that does not involve intent. It's
basically reckless conduct that she was underthe influence and hit him while she was
(08:52):
drinking. So I imagine if thejury is wavering on something, it's probably
the manslaughters or the leaving thee Ithink almost anybody who has been following the
trial closely believes that the Kalmult didnot prove the necessary elements for second degree,
so she would face maximum she wouldface on the vehicula of MANSLAUGHTERA that's
(09:13):
a five year minimum mandatory, andas the charges go down, there's no
minimum mandatories, and she can besentenced anywhere from probation to a number of
years based on what the judge wowgives out of the sentence. What are
the odds that she walks completely free? I think I think there's a pretty
high chance. The defense was masterful. They painted a very strong picture.
(09:39):
Even if you don't believe in thethird party cover up theory, which from
my perspective is a bit of astretch. There's a lot of intervening issues
with the police investigations, things thatthey didn't do that were substandard. So
I think the defense did an excellentjob at poking holes and establishing reasonable job.
I think there's a high likelihood ofa not guilty, but I do
(10:00):
I think there's a chance that thejurors could be at an impass and potentially
come back as hung. And when, just quickly, what does it mean
when a jury's hung? What happens? So when a jury's hung, it
means so you need twelve jurors unanimouslyto decide either guilty or not guilty.
So it say, if there's tenguilty and two not guilty, or vice
versa, if those jurors are prettyhard and fast and they're not going to
(10:24):
change their minds after a certain amountof time, the judge will declare a
mistrial because if we don't have aunanimous verdicts, they can't come back with
them. If there was a mistrial, then the Commonwealth has to decide whether
they retry her or not. Sothat would be that would be a whole
nother evaluation. I don't know thatwe can all go through this again.
God, yeah, so a mistrial. If you have a mistrial, then
(10:45):
the Commonwealth can come back and say, all right, well we're going to
do it again, and they haveto present new evidence when you do a
mistrial or you no, they presentedbasically this, they present the same evidence.
The benefit for the Commonwealth as alwayswe call it, you get in
a second bite the apple. Basicallythey get the opportunity to fix some of
them mistakes, things that weren't helpfulto them the first time. But basically
(11:05):
it's essentially the same, the samebasic evidence. So and it's up to
them whether they decide to do thator not. So complex Catherine Loftis of
Loftis and loft Loftis and Loftis.You obviously can hear the Boston accent.
This is a case happening in Boston. It's all over my timeline. But
like I said, if the juryreaches a verdict within the next forty eight
(11:26):
hours or so, it will bethe biggest thing on your timeline. Note
my objection is where you can goacross all platforms. If you're like,
oh my god, I am intrigued, you can search her and then it
because it's so complex. We can't. We just simply don't have the time
to get into everything here. She'sgot it all broken down for you,
Catherine, when we do have averdict, will you call us back
Because you're waking up with fifth inthe morning, kiss let us and on
good morning, Good morning. Ifyou are a true crime person or maybe
you're just nosy, I guarantee youwithin the next forty eight maybe couple of
days from now, could be today, you're gonna hear the name Karen Reid.
Karen Reid trial is huge in Bostonright now. It's like taking over
(00:21):
and of course it's coming up onmy feed, but I know as soon
as this verdict is read, it'sgonna come up on yours. So I
have Catherine Loftis. She's an attorney, she owns her own practice with her
dad. It's called Loftus and Loftusjoining us this morning to really give you
a general overview of what this caseis. Because it is so extensive and
(00:42):
some of the headlines that you're gonnaread, you're probably not gonna believe it
when you read it as to whatis happening. Good morning, Catherine,
Good morning. Thanks for having me. Absolutely so, where would one person
begin with this situation if they cameacross the name Karen Reid know a single
thing? Well, I'll do ashameless plug. My handle is not my
(01:03):
objection on TikTok. I've been coveringthis case as of a local attorney since
last year and actually have a numberof posts and breakdown, so you can
go back there if you want to. But let me give you a little
bit of a spin on what theshort of the story is, because it's
a very involved story, Tiffany,but essentially, Karen Reid is accused of
(01:23):
killing her boyfriend, Officer John o'keef, who was a Boston police officer,
on January twenty ninth of twenty twentytwo. She's alleged to have been intoxicated,
gotten into a fight with him,backed up over him, and left
him to die in the snow.He was discovered the next morning on at
approximately six am on January twenty ninth. Since she has been charged, Initially
(01:46):
she was charged with manslaughter, itwas upgraded to second degree murder charges.
She has retained a very well knownLos Angeles based attorney, Alan Jackson,
as well as a local attorney hehad, David Ynetti. The theory of
the case is that she did nothit John O'Keefe, but in fact she
has been framed by the Canton PoliceDepartment as well as the Massachusetts State Police.
(02:09):
That John actually went into the homeof the lawn that he was found
on, which is thirty four FauRoad, and that he was beaten to
death inside of the house. Sowe have had basically two competing theories presented
at trial. We've been at trialfour nine weeks now. The jury has
had it since Tuesday afternoon, andI have to tell you it has completely
(02:31):
captured everybody here in the Boston areaand we are just waiting on a verdict
at this point. And both storieshave from what I've heard, have you
swing one way one day, youswing another the other, like the competing
stories are both very compelling. They'reboth very compelling, and you know,
(02:52):
it's there's a lot of people arevery entrenched in one side or the other.
There is a group of us,including me, who are in the
middle. And as you said,as testimony came in one day, it
would be strong for the carwallth thenext day would be much stronger for the
defense. And so there's a lotof people who have swayed back and forth.
They're really entrenched. Supporters are inthe what we call here the Free
(03:15):
Karen Reid movement. There are peoplewho camp out every single day outside of
the courthouse. They wear pink andsupport of Karen. You know, there's
a very big movement here. Butthe jury is obviously thinking about it,
and I think they're like the peoplewho are in the middle. You know,
they didn't come back with the verdictimmediately. They've been out for three
and a half days. We don'tknow whether they're going to come back today.
(03:38):
So it seems to be like they'rereally looking through the evidence and trying
to come to adjust verdict. Let'sgive to Cincinnati a taste of some of
the evidence and some of these becauseto go against to just to stand in
front of a trial for nine weekswith seventy plus witnesses and say I believe
the state police, the Massachusetts StatePolice, and the Canton police are framing
(04:00):
me, you have to have somepretty deep, thick evidence for that to
be true. Give us an exampleof some things that have come up a
bunch. So the interesting thing tome is is not a lot of actual
evidence of her being framed, Butwhat we do have is a lot of
funny, strange things that have comeup. So we've had a lot of
(04:21):
people who were in the house thatnight making multiple calls that they claim were
butt dials. They were going toplaces go into a police department at two
o'clock in the morning. And thedefense is a legend that it was to
set up, you know, thealibi and the theory. We have Google
searches. The defense alleged them tobe one was made for how long to
(04:43):
die in the cold? The Commonwealthsays it's at six thirty. The defense
says it's a two thirty. Wealso have an intervening federal investigation that while
this case was pending in state court, all of the witnesses went to the
federal grand jury because they were investigatingthe Canton police department that just choose the
stafe place full potential corruption. We'vehad no decision or conclusion from the federal
(05:08):
granjury, but some of that evidencehas come into the state injury. So
when I tell you, Tiffany,you could not write this story. You
wouldn't believe it if I wrote it. That's how crazy it is. Every
single day with testimony, something newcomes out. Even as we're waiting for
the jury verdict. You know,the information keeps strictening out. It really
is. It really is a wildtrial. And on your social media you're
(05:30):
all in note my objection, bythe way, if you want to look
more into this, like I said, if you're in true crime, and
you've always been, you know,at the forefront saying, hey, someone's
life was lost during this process.But how chaotic this thing has been.
It's really but you know, andthat's the thing were just talking about it
this morning, that there's a victimhere and that's office of John O'Keeffe.
(05:53):
And the story about John O'Keeffe is, actually he has a really special story.
His sister had passed away when shehad a need. His niece and
nephew were I think six years oldand four years old, and then his
brother in law pass away. Sohe was a single Boston police officer living
in the city. He took custodyof these two kids, raised them as
(06:14):
his own, moved to the townof Canton. You know, he's a
really good guy, well respected.It's been there's been a lot of kind
of hate and anger towards the O'Keefe'sfamily because they believe that Karen Reid is
guilty and are in support of thecalm wealth and many people take offense to
that. People who are on KarenReid side and believe she's being framed.
(06:35):
So there's been a lot of unfortunately, there's kind of been some nastiness that
has come along with this, AndI think I'm glad that you mentioned him
because really that's what it's about,and it's about getting justice and figuring out
really what happened to him. Atthe end of the day, this will
most certainly be turned into some sortof documentary or movie in the future.
Let's catch let's catch Sinci up tospeed here for a hot second. If
(06:57):
you're just walking into this, there'sa chance you have no idea what the
Karen Reid trial is. But Iguarantee you when this verdict is read,
it will it will come across yourfeet. And I want to make sure
that you have a general understanding ofjust the complexity of this case that Karen
Reid and is facing. She whatare the charges against her right now?
So she has a second crew murdercharge, then she's also charged with manslaughter
(07:23):
while operating under the influence. Thejury was instructed on two what we call
lesser included offenses, which is theOui homicide as well as an involuntary manslaughter
and the last one is leaven thescene of a serious barley injury or death.
So really, what the jury isfacing now is you either believe that
John O'Keefe was hit by the carin some way, shape or form,
(07:44):
or you don't believe it at all. And it sounds like that's probably the
issue that they're struggling with with threeand a half days out. They got
the jury got the case on Tuesdayafternoon, and you know it hasn't been
a quick verdict. But again,as you said, there were over seventy
witnesses, so much you know,physical evidence, testimony, Google search,
to cell phones, and you knowthey're really sifting through everything that's been presented
(08:09):
the what is it? What happensto a jury right now? You said
there are three days in deliberation.By the way, Karen is facing life
if she gets convicted of that charge. So they're really trying to just decide.
They're trying to decide if he washit by the car or not if
it's an If it's a no,then is she off the murder charge?
Right So, in order to proveher guilty of second degree they have to
(08:31):
prove basically that she intended to eitherkill him or intended to hurt him and
then left him there. Based onthe evidence that I've seen presented, I
think there is almost zero chance thatshe'll be convicted of the second degree.
The manslaughter is a little bit differentbecause that does not involve intent. It's
basically reckless conduct that she was underthe influence and hit him while she was
(08:52):
drinking. So I imagine if thejury is wavering on something, it's probably
the manslaughters or the leaving thee Ithink almost anybody who has been following the
trial closely believes that the Kalmult didnot prove the necessary elements for second degree,
so she would face maximum she wouldface on the vehicula of MANSLAUGHTERA that's
(09:13):
a five year minimum mandatory, andas the charges go down, there's no
minimum mandatories, and she can besentenced anywhere from probation to a number of
years based on what the judge wowgives out of the sentence. What are
the odds that she walks completely free? I think I think there's a pretty
high chance. The defense was masterful. They painted a very strong picture.
(09:39):
Even if you don't believe in thethird party cover up theory, which from
my perspective is a bit of astretch. There's a lot of intervening issues
with the police investigations, things thatthey didn't do that were substandard. So
I think the defense did an excellentjob at poking holes and establishing reasonable job.
I think there's a high likelihood ofa not guilty, but I do
(10:00):
I think there's a chance that thejurors could be at an impass and potentially
come back as hung. And when, just quickly, what does it mean
when a jury's hung? What happens? So when a jury's hung, it
means so you need twelve jurors unanimouslyto decide either guilty or not guilty.
So it say, if there's tenguilty and two not guilty, or vice
versa, if those jurors are prettyhard and fast and they're not going to
(10:24):
change their minds after a certain amountof time, the judge will declare a
mistrial because if we don't have aunanimous verdicts, they can't come back with
them. If there was a mistrial, then the Commonwealth has to decide whether
they retry her or not. Sothat would be that would be a whole
nother evaluation. I don't know thatwe can all go through this again.
God, yeah, so a mistrial. If you have a mistrial, then
(10:45):
the Commonwealth can come back and say, all right, well we're going to
do it again, and they haveto present new evidence when you do a
mistrial or you no, they presentedbasically this, they present the same evidence.
The benefit for the Commonwealth as alwayswe call it, you get in
a second bite the apple. Basicallythey get the opportunity to fix some of
them mistakes, things that weren't helpfulto them the first time. But basically
(11:05):
it's essentially the same, the samebasic evidence. So and it's up to
them whether they decide to do thator not. So complex Catherine Loftis of
Loftis and loft Loftis and Loftis.You obviously can hear the Boston accent.
This is a case happening in Boston. It's all over my timeline. But
like I said, if the juryreaches a verdict within the next forty eight
(11:26):
hours or so, it will bethe biggest thing on your timeline. Note
my objection is where you can goacross all platforms. If you're like,
oh my god, I am intrigued, you can search her and then it
because it's so complex. We can't. We just simply don't have the time
to get into everything here. She'sgot it all broken down for you,
Catherine, when we do have averdict, will you call us back
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