INSIGHT 102923 NARCISSIST SLAYER PART 2

PART 2- "No more walking through life, feeling controlled and unable to do anything about it. Local Author, Therapeutic Consultant, and "Narcissist Slayer", Michelle Williard Hoffer gives you the tools to empower your life and bring peace to your soul."

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I am Sylvia Moss. This isInside. We're back this week again with
the lady who is going to blowyou away. Her name is Michelle Hoffer,
and I met her, well,actually, i'll tell you how I
met her. R J Harris,my buddy. R J said, you've
got to talk to this one.She's phenomenal. So I thought, well,
r J says she isn't she is? So anyway, what Michelle does

(00:24):
is she is a therapist and shedeals with people in a totally different way
that maybe you've heard about in thepast. So I'm going to let her
talk about what she does and whyshe is in this position of offering these
services. Michelle, tell us alittle bit about your life briefly. We
discussed it last week and I wasso impressed that I thought, I can't

(00:45):
do this one part. I gotto do two parts because there's way too
much that people have to know.So you're from the Hershey area. One
of your friends affectionately calls you missHershey, Pennsylvania, and got to tell
you that. But you grew upin Hershey, you still live in Hershey.
You were married, you had cervicaland was it uterine cancer over a
thirty thirty five year period, andyou were one of those sweet little girls

(01:07):
that did everything you were told tobecause mom and dad said, that's that's
the way you're supposed to be.So if you could pick it up from
there and tell us what happened inyour life and where you are, why
you are where you are now?Oh sure. So one of the things
that my life, that is apart of my life is domestic violence,

(01:27):
unfortunately, and one of the questionsthat we talked about last week was why
did you stay? And I justwant to remind people that that is a
sort of harsh question to ask avictim because it re traumatizes them, puts
them on the defense, as youknow, why make some question themselves and

(01:49):
go deeper into a depression or losingtheir self esteem. They stayed because choice
was taken away from them. Theywere conditioned to stay and choice was removed.
Basically, it was we were programmedto be that way. Program excuse
me, and you're you're younger thanI am, but my generation of women
were sort of that way. Youknow, you weren't giving the choice.

(02:13):
It wasn't at that we were atthe point where, uh, it was
just starting to be okay to havea career. But all we all every
knew was stay at home. Wellwe didn't realize it. Stay at home
was so I can control you,right, And my my choice was the
typical My choice of career was thetypical teacher or hairdress elementary school teacher at

(02:35):
a Catholic school and public school.Then, so I was all in in
obedience and all into following the rules. And we're not saying it. I
mean we're supposed to be that,right, absolutely, but not it not
at the price of giving away yourself esteem and self respect, right,
And that is what a toxic personwill do is take these seemingly normal things

(03:00):
and abuse you with them. Likeit's good to have a conversation in a
regular a healthy relationship, but ifyou have a conversation with someone of the
oppositeccess, they will likely lose theirmind. These are healthy things to have

(03:21):
friends, if you are having friends. When you're in a toxic relationship,
it's all turned against you. Soseemingly normal, everyday, regular things will
be turned against you in a toxicrelationship. You know, following the rules
is not bad, it's actually good, unless you are in a toxic relationship.

(03:47):
Because they will be used against you. And there's also and this isn't
just in the case of abuse wherewomen are or where women are, It's
in work situations, it's in churches, it's it's all over the place.
It's the media. I mean,we're all conditioned. And as we said,
the focus of this program was tolet people know that you don't have

(04:08):
to live like that. We're nottelling you to live, you know,
leave this situation. We're telling youthat it's all a matter of the power
of the brain and how messages tothe brain. You've you've been brainwashed,
right, Oh, it is.That is what I taught last week,
that it is brainwashed, and howcults use the tactics like a narcissist use

(04:32):
against men and women, against menand women to abuse them and brainwash them.
And they fall right into it becausethey're looking to this person, the
cult leader or the spouse that hadmore power, whether that's the man or
the woman. Yeah, as aparent or as you know, someone they've

(04:59):
placed on a pedestal, which isthat that is asking for trouble. I
did that a lot of times becausethat's how we were raised. You know,
in that decade, there were hierarchies, and when you give someone that
power, give the power to them, taking it from you, giving it

(05:21):
to them, and looking to themfor your relief, for your answers,
your salvation. Because you're weak andyou can't do anything. You're there to
serve, right, right, Soit's a constant fight of trying to sell
yourself and all these people who areeither supposed to respect you, if it's

(05:41):
at work or the situations, orif it's at home, if it's a
spouse or a parent. Right therewhen you brought up work, I want
to make sure that it's not justa boss that is doing this to an
employee. An employee can undermine,yes, boss can undermine their co workers,

(06:03):
can undermine the whole department and makeit toxic, but then turns around
and reports to someone else saying,Oh, what a fantastic job I'm doing
with these people. You know therethere are tiny red flags? Please what

(06:23):
are they? Yeah, help mesay not but seriously, but but in
general in general, talk to usabout some of those red flags at work.
At work, well, the underminingyou know it, you do you
feel confused because you're like, wait, that didn't really just happen? And

(06:45):
so you override the red flags thatyour intuition is telling you. Your intuition
will tell you what's happening, Whois toxic, Who is you know,
being bamboozled, Who is destroying thedepartment or destroying your work or destroying whomever.

(07:06):
Your intuition will guide you and we'lltell you. We humans have a
tendency to always look for the good, look for the good, look for
the good, which is a goodthing. We want to look for the
good. I'm a big proponent oflook for the good. But don't override
the red flags. Listen to yourintuition, and don't make an excuse for

(07:29):
someone else. When we start makingexcuses for other people's behavior, then we
are not honoring ourselves, and weare somehow elevating that person because they are
showing you who they are. Sodon't make an excuse. Don't override your

(07:50):
intuition. You know, one ofthe places a lot of people get this
brain marching and were As I saidlast week, we're not here to talk
about religion any denomination, but thecertain sects of I don't want to say
sequest, I'm looking for severn.Certain denominations have a habit of making you

(08:18):
feel that. Well, in general, we all put clergy up on a
pedestal. But if you read intowhat God if, you're because that's part
of that conditioning too. What Godwants. He does not want us to
make human beings superior beings. Heis the only one. So the churches
are using him a lot of wayas part of their brainwashing. Right because

(08:41):
he says that. Right, Becauseif God is the the and you know
many of us think this, thatis the supreme being that has created the
whole entire universe, and we arethe children of God. Yeah, then
we are here for fun in ahealthy and normal Yes, we have to
work to make money to have fun, but our purpose. People are always

(09:05):
looking for their purpose. Our purposehere on the planet is to enjoy the
life that we think of and enjoyfor fun. And it's not for others
in kindness right, not to manipulateor put them down. And do narcissists
know that they're doing this, Yes, they do. So they can actually

(09:28):
say you're a young person and you'vebeen raised to be that way, and
say you're a and I'm not tryingto say male or female, but say
you're a man. You're out therelooking for something, So you actually are
looking for a woman you can control. Yes, oh my gosh. Yes.
And I'm not a doctor. I'mnot a doctor. But yes,
and from my research to my practiceand the people that have come to me,

(09:50):
this is what has been proven tome. Oh, women do this
also? Yes, yeah, Idon't women off that because I know that
have done that to them. Sowhat do you say to people when they
want to raise their children? Imean, how do you keep from doing
that? Because what's going to happen? You repeat, repeat it like you
do with drunken alcohol abuse all theyou know, it's typically repeated generation after

(10:13):
generation until somebody realizes what's going onand puts the stop. So, if
you are a narcissist, can yourealize you are? You know? Do
you? Is this something that theycome to you where you can help them
with that as well? They don'tcome to me. A couple of people

(10:35):
like to save theists. They don'tactively generally usually seek out help on their
own because there's nothing wrong with them. It's your fault, it's that person's
everyone else's fault. They will usecoaches or therapists or consultants or you know,

(11:00):
doctors, to trick their victims orthe court system will say you have
to go get anger management. Butthey're not coming on their own to say
help me change that I've not they'lllike. But if you are a victim
of these people, men and womenand children out there, you can turn
it around. And you talk abouta couple of the ways that you do.

(11:24):
You talk about hypnotherapy, and IToldias we talked about last week.
I my mind never shuts down.I can be hypnotizing. You've said everybody
candy unless they have a borderline persondisorder. But everyone is hypnotizable. Some
people say they're not because they're afraidor they think, you know, they

(11:46):
think too much. Even type Apersonalities, how are hypnotizable. They make
very good subjects because they are.They're allowing their brain to analyze what I'm
putting in there or what you knowthe hypnotists is putting in there, so
they are analyzing it. Some peoplewill go down deep into trance. Some

(12:11):
people will just be sitting there withtheir eyes closed, hearing every word.
I say, that's okay, I'mgoing into their unconscious anyway. And there's
a lot of pre work I doduring the session. It's called conversational hypnosis.
And people are in and out ofhypnosis and they don't even realize it,

(12:33):
which is I love. There's somethingI heard about And you do this
too called tapping. What is that? Tapping is emotional freedom technique tapping and
you tap on different points on yourface and your chest. I just go

(12:54):
right into the heart area. Butit helps to calm a person down.
It helps to allow solutions to whateverproblem you're having. It's not just for
domestic violence, but any problem.It helps to focus and calm your nervous
system. It puts your polyvagal nervethat is our largest nerve, to calm

(13:22):
a more calm centered way, deepbreaths, and then solutions come. Because
when you are in a heightened excitablemaybe even angry or worried, sometimes the
solutions aren't going to come easily.But when you do the tapping, you

(13:43):
start by acknowledging what the problem is. You know, I did some tapping
with some people who want to loseweight, and we acknowledge like, even
though I'm overeating at the table,I accept myself even though I'm going beyond
my calories. I accept myself eventhough I rated the refrigerator last night.

(14:07):
I accept myself, and then weidentify it and talk about it as we're
tapping. And one of the placesthat we tap is right between the eyebrows
and the side of the eye,which people when they're stressed will just rub
naturally. They're temples, they willjust rub those naturally. That is tapping,

(14:31):
you know, to calm your thoughtsdown. When you get a headache,
you you touch your temples and rubthem a little, so you identify
this problem, you talk about theproblem. Then you shift into well there
are times when I don't have thisproblem. Okay, yes, and you

(14:52):
come back to you know what,I probably can solve this problem. I
probably can, and I think solutionis coming to me now, and then
it does, and tapping works.That is so amazing. You know.
I want to talk about your bookstoo, because not only are you have
your own office, but the onethat's as you know, we've heard a

(15:16):
lot, or I've heard a lotabout it, and that's before we talk
about your books. I don't understand. I mean, there's all these therapists
out there, and I try tokeep on top of all kinds of issues.
How come I never heard about somethinglike this narcissism. No, oh,
no, I know plenty of Infact, I know that I know
about the procedures that you do.Oh tapping it is, yeah, it's

(15:41):
hot, but it works, butit works, it does, And I
do train. One of the thingsI am fortunate to do. I get
to go to conferences and bike seminarsin Las Vegas and Boston and there's some
in Orlando, in Chicago, andactually teach other teach doctors, other professionals

(16:04):
how to incorporate this into their practicebecause, uh, doctors and therapists and
licensed social workers, they weren't taughtthis in college. They weren't taught hypnosis.
They weren't taught necessarily meditation. Theywere not taught tapping, EFT and
other holistic brain centered, nerve centered, soothing centered type of practices. They

(16:33):
were taught how to define and howto diagnose and the statistics, but they
weren't taught these holistic things. Theywere also taught the drug interactions, and
they were taught how medicines will interactwith brains and what is appropriate to give

(16:56):
for this person, what is appropriateto prescribe for that type of thing.
However, they weren't taught these holisticways. So now they're into it,
and so well, yeah, youknow, it's it's like the different types
of stigma. Oh, I don'twant that hocleus pocus. Holistic people are

(17:18):
still thinking that stupid stuff. Butwhen you think about even Eastern medicine,
how I can remember I can remembermy dad saying when they when the kids
and his family had a fee forhis mother who was from Russia. She
was from the old country ostry overthere. She would take a potato and
clean it and wrap it up ina real clean white like a hanky or

(17:41):
sockcloth like that, put it overyour head and the fever would disappear.
Come on, folks, if itworks, it works, and it's not
gonna cost you one hundred bucks amonth ago and getting you know how it
is. There's and I just andthere are there are a lot of doctors
out there who are incorporating both thetraditional and the their new age I don't
want to call new age, butuh, holistic holistic medicine. If you

(18:06):
have a doctor and you're listening tothis program, how does anyone get referred
to you? Are you do youaccept referrals from all doctors or would you
be considered mental health and if so, I guess insurance would pay for mental
health. Well, I work.I consult with doctor Ashley millspat at Gallant

(18:26):
Psychological, so she has while weno longer accept insurance, insurance will cover
traditional psychological mental health health and shewill refer people to me. Family doctors

(18:47):
will refer people to me, andyou know they have to go through their
insurance and a lot of times insuranceare there now being more open to Okay,
so the medicine, you're having thismedicine or you're having this problem and
you need this extra sure because they'rerealizing that mental health is physical health.

(19:11):
I mean, wake up, youknow it's so powerful. Let's talk about
your books, Yeah, because Ithink they're neat the one that I want
to read this because I was impressedwith the book that's called A Soaring Soaring
Test Toxic Partners. Somebody readew itand if you let me read it to
you, it says Soaring Minds isabout regaining your confidence and becoming empowered.

(19:33):
Oh my gosh, so many peopleout there need this. There's nothing worse
than feeling though you are without choicesand options, powerless, helpless, emotionally
fragile. It's a dark and scaryplace to be. Soaring Mind shines a
lot in your strengths and guide youthrough the tunnel to the freeing and rewarding
experience you need. That's all wewant. We only want to feel like
we're in control of our lives.And you know, people, as people

(19:56):
get older too, it's we have. As you get older, you start
to think, especially if your childrenare way younger than you, you start
to think, well, they knowwhat's the best thing. And it's difficult
even for older people to give upthat power. But unless you're diagnosed with
dementia or Alzheimer's, it's your life, right, So how do you deal

(20:21):
with the situation like that? Well, in Soaring Mind's workbook and journal,
the first one that that helps peoplefeel better when they're outside of a toxic
situation and the ABC's of narcissists andSoaring Past partners. That validates a person's

(20:41):
experience and so you know you're notnuts. So you know you're not he's
abusing as she's abusing you. That'swhat they know. Uh. And then
we were talking when we talked lastweek about when you're a young girl and
you're programming to be a good girl. You think, oh, well,
I noticed that about his family.But if I love enough him enough,

(21:03):
I can fix it. You cannever ever fix it unless that person has
some sort of epiphany in their life. Usually, our personalities are set,
our basic basic personalities are set betweenzero and five or zero and seven years

(21:26):
old, and then, of courselife happens. But the most impactful time
of our lives is between zero andseven, and we are with our families
the most. During that time.We are seeing how they interact with what
is to a five year old ora three year old the world and the

(21:49):
world being the other people in thehouse, or hearing how they impact with
other people in the world, becausethe world is basically their their home life
and their family. So they're they'rehearing it, they're seeing it, and
they may even be feeling it.And when I say feeling it, not
just emotionally but physically, they mightbe getting the brunt of it too.

(22:11):
Well. Look at the young girlgirls out there that have issues with their
body image and up cutting themselves rightthat that is devastatingly sad and devastatingly horrible.
It You know that too can beturned around. Even that it's just

(22:32):
so sad too, because they're tryingto get the bad out. That is
what that basically is like, they'renot good enough, so they're trying to
get the bad out, get thebad out. They say they want to
feel better. They want to feelbetter because the bad is in them,
and it's so sad. Boys andgirls do that, men and women.

(22:53):
I didn't realize that because we onlyhear about the younger girls, young girls.
But you're here to say that disimpactseverybody. You know. This seems
like if you had a sharp enoughfamily that were willing to work it,
you could turn a whole family aroundif they wanted the help. Yes,
yes, do When people come tosee you, do they typically what is

(23:15):
their attitude because you know you they'reexcited. Oh that's all well, you
know. I mean, I don'tknow anybody out there who hasn't seen a
therapist, and there's nothing wrong withit. And it's the people out there
that start to have when they're mine, their their lives become unmanageable, that
they are they finally see a therapists. But I remember I went to one

(23:38):
one time and I was it wasall my fault everything out there, the
world situation, it's all my faulta lot. What do I have to
do to fix it? And thenI start reading it about all this stuff,
and I thought, oh my god, I'm like everybody else. I'm
like all the women of that I'vebeen exposed to in my generation, that
I'm there for certain reason. I'mthe fixer, I'm the make everything better.

(24:00):
I'm the one that takes over andyou know, Sylvie'll fix it,
you know. And that's overwhelming.And we really weren't there to be put
in that position, were we.No? No, no, no,
right, that's a people please theirmentality, and you will burn out.
You will be even further abused becauseyou're not being allowing yourself to be manipulated

(24:23):
when you stop being the people pleaser, because they they think people pleasing is
good and that it is it's whatmakes other people like them. Well,
if I do all these many things, they'll like me. They'll like me.
If I give up my time,they'll like me if I you know.

(24:45):
Meanwhile, the person that you're peoplepleasing for, you're you know,
driving yourself crazy and spinning your wheelsdoing all the things, and they're getting
a manicure or they're I know theyon the people pleaser. Okay, so
you've had someone comes to see you, they go through your therapy, then

(25:10):
come out the other side. It'sI can just picture people like when you're
trying to lose weight, and especiallyfamily members, they sabotage it. Oh.
I talk about that a lot.I when I coach people or consult
with them about losing weight, Iaddress the sabotagers, not just yourself,

(25:34):
because you know some things are goingto happen, but there are well meaning
sabotagers who they don't know that.That's the eighty nine year old aunt Emma.
These are vegetables, the scalop potato. Yeah, that that you know,
she's eighty nine. I don't knowhow many more years on the planet
she has to her do what sheneeds to do. You don't have to

(25:55):
eat it. You can take itand through the dog, get it to
the dog. And then there arethe other sabotagers, the you know who
I mean sabotagers and your your intuitionalso knows, and they're the ones that
they know you're working actively to loseweight and become healthier or fit, and

(26:18):
they purposefully make you know, thisbeautiful cake, that's your favorite thing,
and they bring it to you.Why I made it for you? And
then they sit there and the shame. And I tell my clients, you
know, don't eat it, don'teat that apple that that serpent has given
you. Don't do it because thatperson is a serpent in my mind.

(26:41):
They're people do not want you thinkthat people are going to be happy for
you, that you're changing your life. You're stop drinking, you stop smoking,
You're you're losing weight. They donot want you leaving the box they
have put you in because then ifyou do it, they have to look
at their own lives and take accountability. They'll talk about you. You think

(27:06):
people are going to be so happy, Some people are. Some people are
going to be talking like, oh, well she did that because she's vain,
or he did that because he justwants to have more muscles and he
is doing this for that, orshe's doing They will talk, and you
have to do follow your goal anyway, be laser focused anyway and know that

(27:30):
this is going to happen. Imake sure they know it. You know,
Well, it's not only portraying tofood. I mean there are situations
that I have a situation my familywhere there's somebody in the family doesn't get
along with there and anybody doesn't talkto anybody in the family. Yet I
have someone who's remembered that family hassaid to me, oh, well,
what if something happens to them?And I'm like, I'm not the one

(27:53):
that's causing all these issues. Rightyears ago, I would have been oh
okay. And that's where it keptme in that position of being what would
you call it, Yeah, yeah, like your feelings aren't as important as
shut up, But you teach peopleall those techniques to deal with everyday life.

(28:18):
In addition to the hypnosis, they'retapping the linguistic what do you call
linguistic? Yeah, I mean it'sit's fascinating, it's fabulous. I would
like you. I'm going to haveyou come back over and over again,
because I know there are so manypeople and you may not recognize it.
I think the best way to closeis to say, ask you, what

(28:41):
are the immediate signs, whether it'sin a relationship, whether it be manipulated
at work, whether it's a child. What are two or three the top
things to recognize when someone is beinga narcissist and trying to take your power
away from you. When you herefeel said, see know it and your
intuition is screaming it at you.Don't disregard it, don't override it,

(29:08):
listen to it. If it's happeningat work, tell HR with your evidence.
And I always tell people you donot do anything over the phone.
No, no, no, everythinghas to be in writing. Michelle,
You're fantastic. I just I couldtalk to you for days anyway. I

(29:29):
can't begin to think about how manypeople out there who need to get in
touch with Michelle. Michelle. Howdoes somebody get a hold of you?
Sure they can text me, that'sthe easiest way. My cell phone number
is seven one seven eight zero fivenine zero two two. They can email
me Michelle m I h l Eat Soaringminds dot me. They can call

(29:55):
Gallant Psychological in Lemoyne. This isone of please come back again. This
is this is the last couple ofweeks have blown me waned and I have
a lot of people that I needto call and tell about you today.
Keep in mind to my listeners,if you don't catch inside in one of
our many iHeart stations, it's alwaysavailable on the iHeart Podcast stapp or your
favorite podcast s app. I'm SylviaMoss. This has been inside Thank you

(30:18):
so much for listening. To seeyou next week.